November 13, 2024 • 65 mins
In this episode of STARRS & Stripes, host CDR Al Palmer, USN ret, talks with retired Air Force Brigadier General Christopher S. Walker, call sign "Mookie" (USAFA '88). Gen. Walker grew up in Jamaica, Queens in New York City and describes how his journey of wanting to be a pilot led him to the US Air Force Academy and a career in the Air Force.
Palmer and Walker have a great, wide-ranging discussion on many topics:
- military service breaks down stereotypes
- why it's NOT necessary to have 'leaders who look like you'
- how DEI disappears in combat when only survival matters
- the close bonds of combat
- why the military should follow the way sports teams are set up based on the best, not identity
- the military is for warfighters--not for benefits
- how DEI got into the military
- politics at the flag level
- role of civilian policymakers at the Pentagon pushing DEI
- inspiring kids to join the military through 'kick-butt' role models
- no civilian instructors at the service academies
- what are the DEI offices in the Pentagon going to do right now with the announcement of Pete Hegseth as SECDEF
BIO
Retired USAF Brig. Gen. Christopher Walker was the Assistant Adjutant General and Commander of the West Virginia Air National Guard. The West Virginia Air National Guard has over 2,100 members and consists of two flying units— the 130th Airlift Wing in Charleston, WV, and the 167th Airlift Wing in Martinsburg, WV. As the Assistant Adjutant General-Air and Commander, he provided command and control over all Air National Guard forces assigned to the state and is the principal advisor to the Adjutant General on all matters related to the Air National Guard (ANG).
Born in New York City, NY, General Walker began his Air Force career as a 1988 graduate of the U.S. Air Force Academy. After Undergraduate Navigator Training at Mather AFB in 1989, he served as a C-130 navigator in weather reconnaissance and tactical airlift squadrons throughout the world, including an assignment as an airdrop planner in the Balkans CAOC in Vicenza, Italy and flying in various contingencies including Operations Provide Promise, Provide Comfort, and Provide Relief. General Walker is a Master Navigator with over 5200 hours in WC-130 and C-130E/H/H3 aircraft, including over 400 combat and combat support hours.
Read more: Full Bio
_______________________________________
For more information about STARRS, go to our website: https://starrs.us which works to eliminate the divisive Marxist-based CRT/DEI/Woke agenda in the Department of Defense and to promote the return to a warfighter ethos of meritocracy, lethality, readiness, accountability, standards and excellence in the military.
Join our Mailing List for our weekly newsletter on this issue.
Follow STARRS:
X | Facebook | LinkedIn | Rumble | YouTube | Truth | Gettr | Gab
Support the Mission: Make a tax-deductible donation to STARRS.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
CDR Al Palmer (00:12):
Hello America, welcome back to STtars and
Stripes.
This is your host, commander AlPalmer, united States Navy and
also United States Air Force, bythe way, in my earlier days,
when I finally got the word thatthe Navy went to sea and that
was a little bit better.
Anyway, it's good to be backwith you for another special
edition of Stars and Stripes andwe've got a very interesting
(00:37):
time that we're facing right now, post-election and back to days
when we're talking about how wecan make our country a little
bit better.
One of the things that we'regoing to do today is talk about
solutions to some of theproblems that we here at STARS
have been talking about forquite a long time now.
Several years STARRS has beenon track with trying to get the
(01:01):
military and the community ingeneral in the United States to
understand the threats that weface and to make sure that we
have the adequate force to beable to defend the country
against anybody who might wantto take us on.
So part of that today is goingto be discussing how we go
forward and the things that weneed to do to make the country a
(01:23):
little bit better.
Forward and the things that weneed to do to make the country a
little bit better.
To do that, I've got a veryspecial guest with me today.
He's a general officer,rigadier General Christopher S
Walker, affectionately known byhis handle in the Air Force of
Mookie.
But, general, it's a greatpleasure, sir, to have you with
us today and I want to just letour audience know that you've
(01:47):
been a part of STARRS now forsome time and you've been a
really vocal voice in makingsure that we let people know how
we can correct some of thethings that are, in fact,
challenges for us today.
So, general, welcome to theprogram and let our audience
know a little bit about yourself.
I won't do that because I wantyou to tell us in your own words
(02:10):
how you got into the Air Force,how you got into the Air Force
Academy and how you had such agreat career flying.
So please let us know how thatworked.
BG Chris Walker (02:21):
Okay, so first let me tell you that I grew up
in Jamaica, queens, new YorkCity, and if I walk out of the
house, go into the street andturn to the left, as long as I
don't get hit by a car, I couldwatch planes taking off from JFK
(02:47):
and landing at JFK 24-7.
And that was one thing thatmoved me.
But then I must have been fiveor six years old, or six years
(03:10):
old, and my, my, my, my parentscame from actual Jamaica, west
Indies, down in the Caribbean.
My father came to the country1957, my mother in 1959, 1960,
but for both of my parentsworked, and so for summers, for
summers, I would go down toJamaica and stay with my
grandparents and my aunts anduncles.
(03:30):
And I remember on a flight againwhen I was maybe five or six
years old and I can't rememberwhether it was TWA or Eastern or
it was an airline that doesn'texist anymore, but back then
they used to let you into thecockpit and as a kid the captain
(03:54):
says come on up here, and heput his hat on my head and then
they gave me a plastic set ofwings and showed me all of the
instruments and at that age Isaid this is what I'm going to
do Now.
My father, so something aboutand it's still almost the same
(04:20):
way now, but something aboutWest Indiania, new caribbean, uh
, parents, they want their kidsto be doctors, lawyers and that
kind of thing, and it's, it's.
It's similar to uh east asian,uh south asian and all that, and
my father was trying to dictatemy career and he wanted me to
(04:43):
be a medical doctor and all ofthe mentors he brought to me of
his friends were doctors ordentists, and I said that's all
well and good, thank you, butthat's not what.
I want to do, but they werepushing that into me.
But I was resolute.
I've always been a maverick,I've always been sort of an
(05:08):
outlaw, and so, uh, I, I, Iignored all of that and I'm uh,
and I wanted to fly, so my, myparents did not have the money
to send me to any kind of flightschool, have the money to send
me to any kind of flight school.
And I determined as a kid OK,the best way to do this is
(05:30):
through the military, and in mymind, because I had no idea that
the Navy, Marines and Army hadaviation in my mind, I said Air
Force.
I said, well, that's what I gotto do, yeah, right.
So, I went to a recruiter inQueens there it's coincidental,
(05:57):
but it's Jamaica Avenue, butit's a major street there in
Jamaica, queens, and my parentsare from Jamaica, west Indies,
but anyway and that recruiter asrecruiters do said you want to
fly?
Okay, I got you.
Yeah, yeah, just sign here.
But I was only 17 at the time.
And I said, okay, you got to getyour parents' permission.
(06:18):
I said all right, I'll just,I'll wait a while.
Thank God, that senior year ofmy high school, which I went to
Brooklyn Technical High School,which is one of the three
specialized engineering andscience high schools in New York
(06:41):
City, During a career day Idon't know whether they call
them gold bar lieutenants backthen, but they had a lieutenant
who just graduated from the AirForce Academy come and visit my
school and I looked at him and Isaw that uniform and I said
(07:03):
that's that uniform that TonyNelson from I Dream of Jeannie
wears.
I think he's in the Air Force.
Let me go talk to him and somost of our audience will know
that reference.
Some of the younger ones willnot, but I went to talk to him
and I said hey you know what.
I've been talking to a recruiterbecause I want to fly for the
(07:23):
Air Force and he said wait aminute.
You've been talking to arecruiter because I want to fly
for the Air Force and he saidWait a minute, you've been
talking to a recruiter.
What kind of recruiter?
Oh, I'm a Jamaican Avenue, hesaid but you, you need to be an
officer.
And I said why do I have to bea cop?
And he goes no, no, no.
Do you know the differencebetween enlisted an officer?
I was go what?
And he said, holy smoke, he satme down and he schooled me and
(07:49):
I learned that I need abachelor's degree.
And then he mentioned the AirForce Academy.
He mentioned ROTC and OTSOfficer Training School and he
said and at that time it wastrue, he said but if you really
want to fly, you got to go tothe Academy, because they'll
(08:10):
take all the flight slots foreverybody there who's qualified
and then they'll give the crumbsto ROTC and OTS.
And I said thank you.
And after that I went straightto the guidance counselor's
office and the guidancecounselor knew about West Point
but really didn't know about AirForce Academy, and she said
(08:30):
I'll get you some info.
I said, never mind, there wasno internet back there, so I had
to get myself to a library anddo all the research.
But the Air Force Academy isthe only college I applied to,
much to my father's chagrin.
He was livid about this becausehe still wanted me to go to
(08:50):
medical school and I said, eh,spread the wealth yeah.
And he was really upset that Irefused to fill out any
applications for any othercollege.
By that time there were severalthings that were against me to
get in the academy.
First of all, starting in mysenior year of high school and
(09:13):
then, secondly, after I took allthe tests and the physical
fitness tests and all themedical screening by March or so
, one of my classmates, johnCosman, at high school, he said,
hey, I got an appointment atthe academy.
(09:34):
I said, okay, mine should becoming soon.
All right, it did not.
And I waited and waited andthen at that point my father was
like okay, well, this is theonly one he applied to, let's
make some calls.
We called up the admissionsoffice and they said hey, we're
(09:55):
still waiting for your medicalrecords from Dodd-Murb.
I said I did that back inNovember, so we call up
Dodd-Murb and Dodd-Murb.
I said I did that back inNovember, so we call up
Dodd-Murb and Dodd-Murb said ohyeah, we sent that to Coast
Guard Academy and MerchantMarine Academy and then we said
I didn't apply to either of them.
CDR Al Palmer (10:17):
Now, where do I want to?
BG Chris Walker (10:18):
go, and then they tried to get things
together, but by then they hadpicked who they're going to pick
for the year and then they toldme OK, we'll have you on
standby if you want.
And I said what, what does thatmean?
And then we talked, and wetalked some more with the
admissions office and theyrealized, ok, sorry, it's not
(10:38):
your fault, it's their fault,the fault of Dodmer would you
accept an appointment to the AirForce Academy Prep School?
And I said what's that?
And they explained it.
But they pretty much said hey,if you make it through that,
you're getting to the Academythe next year.
I said that's what I'm going todo.
My father was going.
Hey, how about Queens College?
STARRS Producer (11:00):
How about SUNY?
BG Chris Wal (11:00):
Bristol-Lennybrook .
I said, no, no, this is whatI'm gonna do, and so I went to
the prep school and then thenext year I got into the academy
.
But that is how I got into theair force, I mind you, my in my
mindset was just being a pilot,an astronaut, and obviously I
(11:22):
didn't make astronaut, butnevertheless, it was the Academy
, though through all of ourtraining and being around people
from all of the United States,actually all over the world, we
had foreign exchange students.
That put me into the mindset ofno, the purpose of this thing
(11:46):
is not to just be a pilot, it isto be a career officer and lead
, and so things changed for me,probably around my three-degree
year, my sophomore year.
CDR Al Palmer (12:00):
So how did that change you, other than the
leadership portion of it andbeing an officer rather than
just an aviator?
But how did the Academyexperience change your life?
BG Chris Walker (12:12):
All right.
So in New York City, and tothis day, it is the same way New
York City people who grew upthere or grew up there.
They are indoctrinated to thinkanyone with a Southern accent is
stupid and they're also.
(12:34):
And then in my neighborhood andcertain minority neighborhoods
the indoctrination is oh yeah,white people, all rich and as
such.
And when I got to the academy Imet white people who were so
poor they didn't even have abathroom or a working toilet in
(12:57):
their own house, they had to goto outhouses.
I said I thought that wasLittle House on the Prairie,
stuff.
It still goes on.
I met then met people from theSouth Alabama, arkansas and such
who I had to rely on to help methrough calculus and
thermodynamics and I said, okay,everything I was brought up to
(13:20):
believe was BS, as brought up tobelieve was BS.
CDR Al Palmer (13:31):
And so the academy changed me in order to
find out that stereotypes arestereotypes.
And isn't that the beauty,though, really, of the military?
It relies on meritocracy andyour ability to perform
regardless of who you are whereyou're from or anything else.
BG Chris Walker (13:46):
It's a very affordable force, isn't it?
Especially if you go throughSiri, all of the folks who grew
up in the country, and all of usin the city.
We had our fingers around thecountry boys' belt loops because
otherwise we were going tostarve.
So I said, okay, I now knowthat the folks in New York City,
(14:09):
if there was ever some EMP andit cut off everything, they
would resort to cannibalism inthree days, whereas the folks in
the country would be like we'refine.
CDR Al Palmer (14:18):
We'll be okay with this.
But it's also the, isn't italso the self-discipline that
you gain out of that and theability to depend on yourself to
solve problems rather thanfinding escape routes, and all
that.
I remember when I got intoofficer training school with my
(14:38):
golf clubs and my sports cararriving, thinking I was going
to have a great time, and withinhours I found myself on all
fours cleaning the toilet with atoothbrush and that's and
that's that's.
Don't you think that's kind ofwhat happens?
Is you got to get depressed alittle bit to the point where
(15:00):
you get rid of a lot of your ownexternal self factors and have
to rely on being good and beingable to work with other people?
That's the part that we tryhere in STARS right to let
people know about it.
BG Chris Walker (15:14):
Oh, my goodness , I am actually grateful to God,
grateful to Jesus, that I wentto the prep school before I went
to the academy, because, if Iwent straight into the academy I
would have been kicked out, nodoubt, Because in my
neighborhood when somebody comesup in your face yelling at you,
you punch them in the jaw andit took.
(15:34):
And so if they as cadets at theacademy, it's people your age
doing that and it's like okay,where I come from, it's a fight.
When I went to the prep school,we had actual technical
sergeants and master sergeantswho were our training
(15:57):
instructors and they're a littlemore intimidating and they
taught me how to be in themilitary and I realized, okay,
okay, okay, they're not doingthis because they want to fight.
They're doing this becausethey're trying to make you
better and so thank God, I wentto the prep school first.
CDR Al Palmer (16:17):
So do you think that's the case, looking forward
a little bit in today's world,with the academy and it's even
true with with officer trainingschool and even rotc, do you
think that there's that kind ofactive membership in the service
, that is, that are theinstructors to the point where
they're able to relate not justeducational material but also
(16:40):
the, the requirements forleadership and character,
integrity and that old word?
I know that you and I like somuch experience.
BG Chris Walker (16:51):
I'll say this.
So a lot of the left will tryto say, oh, folks coming into
the military need to be led bysomeone who looks like them, and
I say that's bunk and that's acop out.
Good leadership knows how tohandle everybody and I've read
(17:17):
books of folks during World WarII Navy they call them the
Golden 13.
The first Naval officers afterWorld War II and their testimony
said there are white leadersthere who actually inspired and
motivated them and there weresome who still had that
(17:40):
prejudice.
But again it's all part ofleadership prejudice.
But but again it's all part ofleadership.
Anybody can be a good leaderand anybody who says that that
me as a fresh black recruit, Ineed to have a black commander
in order to perform then thosepeople have no reason to be
advising the military at all.
They don't know their buttsfrom a hole in the ground.
(18:01):
Leadership is leadership it'sinteresting.
what in a hole in the ground?
Leadership is leadership.
CDR Al Palmer (18:06):
It's interesting.
In my days in the museumbusiness, I got to know General
Benjamin Davis.
Yes, and General Davis was aremarkable leader too, but he
had the same attitude.
It wasn't about who you were,where you came from, what you
look like, you know how well canyou fly, Can you do the job,
(18:28):
and that's what has been thehistory of our military from the
earliest days.
Yeah, there's always been someprejudice, there's always been
people who have different waysof looking at things, but, in
the final analysis, if you can'tfight, if you can't work as a
team, you're not going tosurvive.
And survival, is it not?
Not is one of the the, the keysto this right.
(18:49):
It's not just you, it's theteam too.
BG Chris Walker (18:52):
There, no one's going to survive in a firefight
or an air battle if you don'thave everybody working on the
same frequency we have a lot ofso-called experts who are
telling the military how weshould think, yep, with CRT, dei
and all of that, but they'venever been in the combat Air
(19:29):
Force Navy Marines with anattitude that, oh, I only want
to follow people who look likeme, or Hispanic, or Black or
whatever.
That all disappears when thebullets start flying and then
they look for the people whothey know they're going to live.
If they hang with, they'regoing to live.
I've seen it over and overagain.
And folks who might look likeme, if they're clowns and I'm
(19:50):
going to die with them, I'll saysee you later, I'm going with
the white guy.
It happens over and over again.
So it's just about leadership.
It's about survival.
The survival instinct kills allof the other prejudices and
indoctrination.
The survival instinct.
(20:12):
All the external factors getthrown to the wayside when
survival comes.
CDR Al Palmer (20:18):
Well, and you and I, as aviators, know that when
someone in combat gets shot down, especially if at night or
something, no one's going tostop and ask where they came
from.
BG Chris Walker (20:29):
North or.
CDR Al Palmer (20:29):
South, white, black, you know, asian.
No one asked what, what,anything other than where are
they?
How can we get in there?
And then people go in, risktheir lives to rescue them and
and and when they're all backtogether, they go out and have a
beer at the bar and everybody'shappy.
I wish that our life in ageneral society could be more
(20:53):
like that sometimes.
BG Chris Walker (20:56):
So I've been flying in combat and on the
ground in combat and what I haveobserved is that brings people
together tighter than actualfamilies.
I've seen over and over you andI are old enough to have seen
(21:20):
people's marriages thatdissolved because they would not
talk to their spouse about whatwas going on, but they would
talk to their shipmates, theirwingmen, their foxhole mates
about what was going on and thespouses couldn't handle not
(21:41):
being read in on this and theycouldn't handle the tightness
and and it ended marriages.
CDR Al Palmer (21:47):
But but combat brings people together tighter
than anything does indeed, soyou still stay in contact, I
know, probably with the, withthe guys you flew with.
BG Chris Walker (21:58):
Oh, yeah, the guys I flew with and the guys I
was, uh, in baghdad.
With a Matter of fact, the guysI was in Baghdad with, they're
having a little get-togethernext Wednesday, but I can't do
that because my girlfriend'sbirthday is next week, so I say
(22:19):
that takes precedence.
So I'm going to be with her,but nonetheless I would like to
be there because this is a tightgroup.
We were there in baghdad from2003 to 2005.
I was there 2003 to 2004.
But again, the whole group, weall know each other and we all
support each other to this day,like, like family and all of the
(22:41):
folks I flew with in combat.
all of them were still like this, like a tight-knit fist, and
I'm tighter with them than I amwith a lot of members of my own
family.
CDR Al Palmer (23:01):
And we stay that way with them too.
In fact, we've got folks likethat here at STARS.
In fact, one of the guys that Iflew with in F4s is another
STARS member and that's kind ofhow I got here actually and Ron
Olds, who's a member of ourboard.
Ah, yes, okay, so Ron and Iflew F4s together, but you're
(23:22):
right, it's that last four yearswith us.
It's been over 50 years and wesee each other not regularly,
but when we do it's like time isnot passed yeah.
BG Chris Walker (23:35):
It's like it was only a couple of days ago.
It was exactly.
The fire does not die.
CDR Al Palmer (23:42):
No, it doesn't.
But don't you think it's thatkind of bonding and that
relationship that exists betweenpeople in teams in a service,
whether you're a wingman orwhether you're a sailor on a
ship or whatever you're doing,that you have to rely on
everybody else, right?
And if you're a leader, it'seven worse, isn't it?
(24:03):
You've got to get into theirworld and their mindset and make
sure that they're taken care of.
BG Chris Walker (24:11):
So two things with that.
I'm going to start by sayingagain, the so-called experts are
trying to tell us what to do,but what they say is
counterintuitive to what NFL,nba and Major League Baseball
does.
And they've been doing it rightfor decades and decades.
(24:38):
Again, it got integrated 50sand 60s.
But nowadays all they careabout is can you catch the ball,
can you hit a home run, can youget the ball in the hoop?
And the coaches you don't haveminority players going oh, I
(25:00):
can't work for this coachbecause he's white Whereas the
left is trying to tell us in themilitary that that's what we
should be doing.
They don't know anything, allright.
So again, I always try to saylet's follow the professional
athlete model and if they wantdiversity, fine, I'm good with
(25:25):
diversity, but let's do it theright way.
It will happen, naturally, ifwe go out there and inspire
people to be on our team andthey put out the effort to be
the best and they will come tous, but if we always incentivize
by saying oh, we'll pay foryour college.
(25:47):
We'll do this.
No, no, no, no, no.
We need people who want tofight for the United States.
Everybody else meh stay home.
Do something else.
The military is not foreverybody.
STARRS Producer (26:00):
Yes.
BG Chris Walker (26:02):
We need butt tickers.
It is what it is we need to beoperating like professional
sports and everything will takecare of itself.
CDR Al Palmer (26:12):
So it's different than working for IBM or Amazon
or Morgan Stanley or any othercompany, or even if you're a
doctor or a lawyer, the the, asyou say.
The difference is we have to beexceptional at what we do not
ordinary, because of the demandsof the job itself.
And it is dangerous, it'slife-threatening, it requires
(26:37):
commitment, it requires honestyand integrity.
So that makes everybody alittle different when they get
in the military, which brings meto the subject of so how did we
get here with the DEI CRT?
How did that creep in, do youthink, into the military, which
you would think would be thelast place?
(26:59):
It would probably occur.
BG Chris Walker (27:03):
So this will be controversial, but again, I
don't care, because I'll say itto Obama's face it was Obama
that did that and he got rid ofcertain leaders in the military
and he brought in his believersand he was trying to transform
the United States.
(27:23):
And that crept in little bylittle and I saw that with
certain superintendents ofservice academies and little by
little it started creeping in.
But again, the left Marxiststhey do the long march.
They won't come crashing in.
(27:45):
They're going to do it littleby little and if they can take
over the education of ouryoungsters, everything will take
care of itself.
That's how they've done it inthe past, once President Trump
came in in 2016, they said holysmokes this is messing up our
(28:09):
agenda, this is messing up ourstrategy.
And they came out of thewoodwork exposing themselves for
what they really, really wantto do.
And I say thank God for that,because then these last four
years Americans woke up and andI'll say I can.
(28:31):
I'll say this I saw thetransformation over the last.
So I I go up to New York Citypretty often to take care of my
mom.
We, my sister and I, hiredsomebody to live with mom 24-7.
Mom is 91.
But sometimes it takes morethan one person.
So my sister will go up there,I'll go up there.
(28:53):
I go up there more often becauseI'm retired now, my sister has
to take leave and so I'll do it.
But whenever I'm in New YorkCity, in Queens, in my
neighborhood, my mom hates it.
But I will wear t-shirts thatsay things like keep women's
sports female, or t-shirts thatsay my pronouns are N-O-R, slash
(29:20):
, m-a-l, normal or proudAmerican garbage, and I expect
people to say something to me.
To my surprise, most of thereactions were, yeah, from black
people in my neighborhood, andthat's why I said, okay, they're
waking up.
I know how this election isgoing to turn out.
CDR Al Palmer (29:44):
Because it's an American thing.
BG Chris Walker (29:46):
That's right, that's right.
And then when I talk to my mombecause on each Sunday she will
keep the TV on church sermonsand such, jimmy Swaggart's
channel and such, and so then Istart saying to mom okay, so is
(30:06):
that what you believe?
She goes, yeah, yeah.
I said here's what the personyou voted for says, and she goes
.
They said that.
I said, mom, are you not payingattention to what the people
you vote for say?
And she says no.
And so I've been transformingher as well.
CDR Al Palmer (30:24):
So that kind of brings us back to the point of
talking about how it got intothe military.
But the military has beennotably apolitical.
We're supposed to be that waybecause we're not supposed to
take sides on things.
We're only supposed to lead andperform right.
We're only supposed to lead andperform right.
So if that's the case, then howdo people justify having DEI
(30:49):
there as a political arm of anideology?
BG Chris Walker (30:54):
So unfortunately, and we all know
this and anybody who saysotherwise is ingenuous when you
get to three and four star level, you have to play the game.
And you get to the three andfour-star level, you have to
play the game and you have to bepolitical.
And this past administration,especially Obama's
(31:16):
administration, they said, okay,this is what we have to do.
To get up there, we do it.
Trump's administration he wentagainst that and some of them
went rogue on him because theyprobably didn't expect him to
last more than one term and theywere resistors, but they
(31:38):
weren't going along with theAmerican public.
They were going along with theadministration.
STARRS Producer (31:42):
I saw that.
BG Chris Walker (31:43):
We all saw that , and so I lost a lot of respect
for a lot of higher-rankinggenerals and admirals.
Well, I will not hide fromanybody.
Let me know.
(32:03):
Anytime I come to DC I'll goright up to them and tell them
to their face.
But yeah, I lost the respect ofa lot of them because they were
going along with the politicsand not with the Constitution.
But they saw that as their wayto rise.
I think that's about to come toa crashing halt now.
CDR Al Palmer (32:25):
Do you think that part of that was due to the
influence of the SES and highergrades in the Pentagon and or
political appointees?
Because again, if the militaryis supposed to be apolitical.
I think we're talking aboutthose of us in uniform, but that
(32:45):
doesn't necessarily apply, doesit?
To the civilian side?
BG Chris Walker (32:50):
You have to understand how the promotion
system and assignment systemgoes within the military, within
all the services, within themilitary, within all the
services, and so the promotionsystem at a certain level it
becomes very political, but thenthe people that they bring up
(33:14):
there are gonna be making thechoices on who will become the
next wing commanders and such,or the next brigade commanders,
and so it all flows.
It's all part of the long marchand some of us have been
watching and going okay.
Okay, and I'll tell you thisBefore I retired, I did a study
(33:41):
within the Pentagon on thepromotion system at the behest
of the Hispanic caucus and suchbut nevertheless what I did find
is that there are certaingenerals, the deputy commanders
of this is the Air Force.
the deputy commanders within themajor commands, the MAJCOMs,
(34:08):
have inordinate influence on whogets promoted in that promotion
board and we found two cases ofwing commanders who had failed
major inspections being promotedto the one star and I said
there you have it.
If that doesn't say that it'srigged, nothing else does so.
CDR Al Palmer (34:33):
so, and when it comes, though, to the promotion
I my experience was in my timein Vietnam there were a few
people who really stood out, youknow, people like General Robin
Olds.
BG Chris Walker (34:47):
Oh legend.
Yeah, I even tried to get mymustache like his at one time,
but you know our hair isdifferent.
CDR Al Palmer (34:56):
Yeah, a great guy and he ended up being a
superintendent there at the AirForce Academy.
But he rose to be a one-starbut he was controversial.
Yeah, he was controversial, buthe was controversial in the
sense that he was not wanting togo along with just getting
things done and then leaving.
He hid his own combat servicejust so he could stick around
(35:20):
and fly with his guys.
And there were other peoplelike that.
You know General Paul Tibbetts,the commander of the.
B-29s that dropped the bombs thesame way.
But he only made one star, andthat was it, Chuck.
BG Chris Walker (35:35):
Yeager, if you don't go political, you will not
rise farther than that, maybetwo stars.
CDR Al Palmer (35:43):
And a lot of guys like that who were kind of
stuck down in the lower levelsof that, even though they were
the guys who were the trueheroes and the warriors in the
services.
So it seems that we'repromoting people based on
politics rather than achievementor warrior status.
BG Chris Walker (36:03):
But quite honestly, I have to say, that is
the way the world works.
Thus, what we have to do isensure, as the American public,
who will put in the propercivilian leadership so that the
(36:28):
military can be apolitical andstill get promoted on merit, and
that's very, very difficult.
I really, quite honestly, itdoesn't matter which side.
That's going to be a difficultnut to crack, but we have to get
the civilian leadership inthere, the SecDef, the assistant
(36:49):
secretaries, all of those whorun an organization, so that,
hey, all I want you all to do iswin the wars.
Let us take care of thepolitics and things will get
better.
STARRS Producer (37:07):
Hey Al, so getting back Al.
CDR Al Palmer (37:08):
Yes.
STARRS Producer (37:09):
Excuse me, podcast producer Cindy here.
General Walker, what is therole of the civilian
policymakers in the Pentagon inpushing the DEI agenda, because
I don't think that their role isreally known.
People kind of focus on themilitary, but can you tell us
about the policymakers?
BG Chris Walker (37:32):
Okay.
So let me say this Again thoseof us in uniform realize who's
really in charge.
Thus, if they start pushingcontroversial policies, most of
(37:56):
the time you'll find the folksin uniform.
That's going, yeah, boss.
And very few people have thefortitude to be the Cassandra
(38:22):
Sandra.
And here's one example of thathappening.
I was in a meeting where acertain civilian leadership was
trying to figure out a way toconvince the American people
that drag shows on.
Air Force bases were okay, andI'm one of the few uniformed
people in that room.
I'm just listening to peoplejust go yeah yeah, well yeah, I
(38:44):
remember in Vaudeville they'rejust coming with every excuse
they could.
And then I finally just said tohell with it, because I was
going to retire in a year anyway, so it doesn't matter.
And so I said, so, do we allowburlesque shows?
Do we allow negligee orlingerie shows on the base?
(39:08):
Well, no, then why would we dothis?
Why would we do this?
To appease less than 1% of theUnited States population.
And I just put it out therelike this.
And then another person came inand said, well, yeah, back in
1980-something we did ban thosekind of shows.
And so, yeah, maybe this isn'ta good idea.
But I said, if I hadn't saidanything, they would have
(39:31):
convinced themselves that, yeah,we're going to push forward
with this and we're going toconvince the American people
that they are crazy.
CDR Al Palmer (39:39):
Do you think that's partly, though, because
people talk about DEI, and thosekinds of things with appealing
to other groups are fundamentalto using that as a force
multiplier so that we havebetter people, that we appeal to
them, we get them in, and allof a sudden they're now the
(40:01):
strength of what we're doing.
BG Chris Walker (40:05):
I've watched all of this and I watch who,
within the force, are the truebutt kickers and I say, if that
particular community were, webrought them in, they were the
ones.
Okay.
So let me put it this way sothe British brought in Nepalese
(40:32):
warriors, the Gurkhas, and theywere a force multiplier because
they were true A-kickers?
Okay, if you want to appeal tothem, fine, here this community.
Oh, I don't know why this isdoing all this fireworks behind
me.
Sorry, I guess I have to watchmy hand movements.
(40:58):
But, again this certaincommunity they're trying to
appeal to.
If they were to come in likeGurkhas and chopping people's
heads off and making the enemyfear us, then fine, appeal to
them.
But they're not, they are not,and so let's stop trying to
appeal to people who are notgoing to make a difference in
(41:19):
our butt-kicking ability.
CDR Al Palmer (41:22):
That's controversial, but I said it and
I'll say it to anybody's face Idon't care a little bit here,
knowing that that's a problem,that we have these things that
have occurred, which areweakening the services and being
(41:45):
corrosive.
How do we go forward?
What would you do if somebodyis ahead of the military
somewhere, whether it's in thePentagon or in the field?
What would be your model forsomeone that could do that?
What would they look like?
What would be your model forsomeone that could do that?
BG Chris Walker (41:57):
What would they look like?
I'll put it right back to theprofessional athlete model.
I say let's go and do it, justlike the NFL does it.
We have to start early.
We have all these people say wecan't militarize our kids.
Yeah, whatever.
I differ with that opinion.
We need to start at age like 10to 12 years old, inspiring them
(42:20):
well with flying, with, withtanks, with, with scuba, diving,
everything that sort ofadventure.
And then then sponsorcompetitions and they uh, and
for instance, with flying, wecan do it with virtual reality,
vr, similar to what they'redoing now with pilot training in
(42:44):
the Air Force and Navy.
And then we have statecompetitions and national
competitions, the ones who arethe butt kickers in that, if
they have the propensity toserve, then we, the DOD, sponsor
them to get their pilot'slicenses in real aircraft.
(43:05):
But the same thing can be donewith cyber and all of that.
But for the flyers who don'twant to serve in the military,
then let the airlines pick upthe tab and bring them up.
But there's ways to do this.
We have Little League, baseball, football, basketball,
(43:26):
everything.
It's soccer.
We should be doing the samething and by the time they reach
age 18 to 22, some of them aregoing to be Olympic level
already.
And here's the other thing Forthose who are worried about
diversity everybody wants to win, and so there will be plenty of
(43:46):
Black kids, plenty of Hispanickids, plenty of girls and plenty
of gay people, but they justwant to kick butt.
Take them.
All we want are the buttkickers.
That's it.
CDR Al Palmer (44:03):
It's all making things go boom and disappearing.
So one of the people I had thefortune of meeting when I was a
museum director was CliffRobertson, the actor.
BG Chris Walker (44:16):
Oh my gosh.
CDR Al Palmer (44:18):
I'm old enough to remember him in a lot of movies
, yeah.
Yeah, and, and, and, and hebecame a pilot, but.
But I had him one day for afundraising dinner and I asked
him I said so what got you intoaviation?
And, like you, chris, he saidwell, I was a young kid in San
Diego and there was an airfieldright there at Torrey Pines,
(44:39):
which was right on the edge ofthe cliffs years ago.
And he said I take my bike andI go there and lean it up
against the fence and watch theairplanes, kind of leaning over
the fence.
And he said one day one of thepilots came by and says hey, kid
, you know you want to go fly.
And he says, well, yeah.
And he said well, if you washmy airplane every day for the
next couple of months, I'll takeyou flying.
(44:59):
And he did, and that's what gothim interested in flying, just
like you did, and pretty muchlike I did too, as a kid,
parking my bicycle at the end ofthe runway when my dad was at
Langley Air Force Base, Anyway.
But that's the whole point,isn't it?
We need to inspire people towant to serve, in spite of who
(45:23):
they are, where they're from,because we can do that in our
country Other places can'treally but instead, it seems-.
BG Chris Walker (45:30):
Part of my testimony.
When I was an expert witnessfor students for fair admissions
against the United States NavalAcademy, I said the strongest
thing we can do is inspiration,and we've lost that art.
CDR Al Palmer (45:47):
And instead now what we do is.
BG Chris Walker (45:49):
We're bribing.
Oh, we'll pay for youreducation and we'll give you all
these benefits.
We need to inspire them to wantto serve.
CDR Al Palmer (45:58):
And that leads me to that next question, which is
instead of doing that you'reright, we're we're paying them.
That's a problem with thepeople who are already into
service and even when they comein, we're paying a real
instrument bonuses, bonuses toofficers just to stick around.
And the problem is, even with alot of money they're not
(46:18):
sticking around.
And that's that's disturbing tome, because you know, we used to
be able to count on familiesthat had experience in the
military service to have theirchildren, their relatives, sign
up, and now we can't even dothat and that's on the wane.
So, yeah, we've we've got towork real hard to have their
children, their relatives, signup, and now we can't even do
that and that's on the wane.
So, yeah, we've got to workreal hard, I think, now, and
(46:41):
re-inspiring people to want toserve.
And I have people like CliffRobertson, and I'd suggest
General you too.
You know, having done that,that's what we need to point to.
BG Chris Walker (47:08):
I have literally scores of friends,
retirees, who say they arediscouraging their children but
encouraging them to be thestalwarts and bulwarks against
the leftism so that our militaryactually has a chance.
Because if they, don't join andonly the brainwashed.
(47:31):
Join, then we are all done.
CDR Al Palmer (47:36):
Well, maybe there's some hope on the horizon
here.
I don't want to be too early inpredicting things, but my
grandson I got him to join theNavy as a sailor years ago
because he was kind of a waywardyoung guy in some ways, but but
, but he but he joined andserved for a a few years, but he
(47:56):
got out about a year ago andand he's and it was partly
because of all of this we'retalking about, uh, the, the
attacks on who you are, whatyou're doing and and all that,
and the paperwork and endlesslectures and things.
I think he had it well.
He just wrote me the other dayhis dad did and said guess what?
(48:17):
He's going back into the Navyas of this week.
There we go.
Now, that's, just that's just asmall story, but but I suspect
that if we at stars are moresuccessful as we have been, we
can spread that word.
Don't you think about how thisis now a new route, a new
beginning or a new awakening,perhaps?
BG Chris Walker (48:41):
I predict that after this election, all of a
sudden, the services will nothave a recruitment gap.
That's my prediction.
We'll see.
I'm willing to actually put$100 on the table about that,
(49:02):
but nevertheless.
CDR Al Palmer (49:04):
I'll join you.
BG Chris Walker (49:05):
But Stars, Calvert, Task Group, MacArthur
Society, if we start spreadingthe word that, hey, our DOD is
back let's go, let's ride hard,we will actually positively
(49:26):
affect our DoD Well, and it's areal resource.
CDR Al Palmer (49:31):
I think, as you described, we have the ability
to do it because we're not inthe middle of that cauldron
inside the five-sided puzzlepalace.
You know, we can advise anddirect a bit from the outside
right and I always, you know,like to tell people look, you
know what's what's made us great, all of these people who have
sacrificed in this long grayline, or blue line, or green
(49:52):
line, of generations of peoplewho have served for us, of which
you're, you and I are part of.
We rely on that so that we cancontinue to be a free nation,
because we're a nation ofvolunteers and we have an
all-volunteer force.
Now, right, we didn't always,yes, but we do now and, quite
honestly, there are some peoplewho are?
BG Chris Walker (50:15):
advocating to bring back the draft and, quite
honestly, I can't agree withthat because I only want people
who want to be there.
It's hard enough trying toinspire people who want to be
there, but then trying toinspire and lead people who
don't want to be there that I'llleave that to prison guards.
(50:37):
We have a Super Bowl winningDOD to build.
CDR Al Palmer (50:44):
Well, and I think our wonderful producer, Cindy,
and I have had that conversation.
I know you and I were part ofone just recently where some of
the folks are expressing theidea that people are coming into
particularly the academies, whodon't necessarily have the same
standards of integrity orhonesty it's okay, because you
(51:07):
know what this is our culturenow.
We come from a culture whereit's okay to kind of take
shortcuts, it's okay to cheat alittle bit, and so we don't
necessarily need to have a lotof integrity.
No, we do.
BG Chris Walker (51:21):
And if we don't , have people that we bring in,
and what makes it worse is whenthe leadership at the academy
goes along with that attitude,and that's why I say okay, all
is lost.
Get rid of them, raise theinstitution to the ground and
rebuild it because somethingwent wrong.
CDR Al Palmer (51:41):
But isn't it a beautiful thing to see the real
integrity, the real honesty, thereal commitment at work when
people are actually doing it.
How smoothly that goes and youcan depend on people.
Smoothly that goes and you candepend on people.
You know as, uh, as as one ofour members the other day and
stars said, uh, who was a, who'sa blue angel or was still is,
(52:02):
you're always a blue angel.
I think he says look if I'mgoing to fly my.
If I'm going to fly my airplane,I want to trust my mechanic
who's been working on it to havedone it perfectly, so I don't
even have to look at theairplane.
I can jump in, start it up,take off, fly inverted and know
that I'm not going to go augerinto the ground.
(52:23):
That's the kind of thinking andthe kind of attitude we've got
to have, right.
BG Chris Walker (52:29):
Don't you remember the good old days when
we did not have to lock ourrooms at the academy?
And we can leave money out onour desks and it'll be just fine
.
I found it interesting when Iwas stationed in Japan, january
of 95 to March of 97, in Tokyo,even a bustling city like that
(52:53):
same way, if you dropped yourwallet on the ground, you could
expect somebody to call youhere's your wallet with all your
money in it.
Oh yeah, but now at all of theacademies that is no longer the
case.
And I ask I mentor lots ofcadets at all of the academies
through the years and I try toask them was it like that with
(53:14):
you?
So I cannot pin down when thatchanged, but it has changed of
the academies through the yearsand I try to ask them was it
like that with you I?
CDR Al Palmer (53:16):
so I cannot pin down when that changed, but it
has changed so, but when youwere there, they were mostly all
active duty instructors, right?
BG Chris Walker (53:27):
yes, yes, oh lord, okay, so you got me
started.
So when I was there, so you gotme started.
So when I was there, there wasone civilian instructor and it
was psychology and that was mysenior year, so my first degree
(53:49):
year.
I can't remember his name, butnevertheless that was it.
All of the other instructorswere military and that makes a
difference, as I see thedifference now, and now it's
like 60-40, almost 50-50.
Holy smokes, they're bringingin the long march and we can't
(54:13):
allow that.
The last time I checked thehere's another controversial
thing that I'll go on a recordfor and people know that I'm
running for the board ofdirectors or the AOG.
But here's a controversialthing that I'll stand by and if
you question me, I'll say itjust as proudly Get rid of the
civilian instructors, onlymilitary instructors.
(54:36):
Bam, that's it.
CDR Al Palmer (54:40):
Well, and it's now about 40%, I think.
Last time I checked about 40%of the academies.
Roughly all of them are nowcivilian and they're mostly from
the East Coast 40%, 45%, yeah.
Ivy League, right, yeah, so youdon't.
And people make the argumentthat, well, you need the
knowledge, you need theinstruction.
You can find that in peoplewho've got.
BG Chris Walker (55:03):
What they're trying to imply is that our
military people aren't as smartas these other ones, and that is
not true.
CDR Al Palmer (55:10):
Well, they are.
BG Chris Walker (55:13):
So I say all you're doing is introducing.
You're trying to turn us intoUCLA.
We're not UCLA.
Every class that we have, Idon't care if it's English,
whatever it is we need some sortof nexus toward war fighting,
(55:34):
so that they know.
And these civilian instructorscannot do that, and so sorry.
So sorry if you, if it was mychoice, you'd all be gone.
Sorry if you lose a job, butyou could find a job at some
other college, but not at ourservice.
Love you but bye.
CDR Al Palmer (55:52):
You know, I remember our board member of
Stars, Ronald Ron Olds, and I afew years ago were having a
squadron reunion in Colorado atthe Air Force Academy and I
remember we asked thesuperintendent and one of the
one-stars that was there.
So we looked around and we seea lot of people talking about
budgeting, personnel managementyou know logistics and a whole
(56:17):
lot of other things, but wedidn't see anybody wanting to
talk about war fighting.
Are you teaching that?
And there was this kind ofsilence all of a sudden in the
room and it occurred to me thenthat that's the key that's
missing right now the Robin Oldsattitude about war fighting.
(56:39):
They worship him as a figure,but not what that's about in the
Air Force or the Navy has thesame problem.
BG Chris Walker (56:49):
I don't know if you you probably read.
It must've been three, three,maybe four weeks ago, a recent
grad out of the Air ForceAcademy lieutenant, wrote an
article about how the Academychanged her because she didn't
(57:12):
expect it to be about war andkilling I go who talked to you
before you applied, and shewants to be a conscientious
objector now and I'm of themindset all right, let her be,
but make her pay back all of themoney that we spent on her
education Again.
This is the kind of thing thatthe academies are producing now
(57:37):
and that is not what we need.
If the taxpayers are spendingtheir precious dollars on
producing warrior leaders toprotect our country, then we
need military instructors and weneed none of this mindset that
(57:57):
produces conscientious objectors.
Nothing wrong withconscientious objectors, but the
military is not for everybody.
Know what you're getting into.
CDR Al Palmer (58:13):
So another article I was reading not too
long ago and it's one of thepeople I think we got that
posted on our website discussionabout the three and four stars
again and the higher levels ofthe Pentagon.
And you know, you're right.
There's a you reach one or twostars most of the time and then
(58:33):
from there on it's really prettymuch political and it's all
behind a desk someplace.
Somebody suggested that thethree and four stars end up with
two-year tours and, just likethe Navy, you end up with shore
duty and sea duty.
You know.
So one of those two years isgoing to be in a field with an
actual hands-on command whereyou've got responsibilities for
(58:55):
people, equipment, operations,combat, and then you can come
back to the armchair and relaxand spend time with the family
for another two years.
What do you think about that?
BG Chris Walker (59:09):
So World War II was much different.
Yes, the three and four starswere there in the thick of it.
Patton was actually there onthe front lines with his people.
We will never well, I don'twant to say we'll never see that
again, but we don't see thatnow and again in my mind three
(59:34):
and four stars need to still beinspirational.
STARRS Producer (59:40):
And so, george.
BG Chris Walker (59:40):
Marshall was inspirational, ike was
inspirational, patton wasinspirational.
Nowadays, I guess they'reinspirational from their Twitter
accounts or whatever, but noone is going.
Yeah, let's go right into thegunfire with you.
(01:00:02):
That's not happening, exceptmaybe at the one or two star
level, and I think it's time fora change on that.
Again, this is controversial,but it is what it is.
I say what I say.
CDR Al Palmer (01:00:22):
Well, we got a new sheriff in town.
It looks like.
BG Chris Walker (01:00:31):
What he's thinking.
He's rapidly building hiscabinet and why.
Yesterday, when I learnedHeadsets yes, pete Hedgeseth,
yes I said okay, and I knowabout Pete Hedgeseth, but I knew
that the main opposition fromthe left would be that he was a
reporter for Fox, but they wouldnever look into all the other
(01:00:51):
things he did.
So I said this is controversial, but I'm behind it, I'm with it
.
Let's do this Because I know,because I've listened to a lot
of things that he said aboutwhere China is and where we are
and how.
I'm not sure what will bebleeped out, but he said
(01:01:14):
something like we have our headsup our butts while China is
trying to get it together, andso I said so he, I think, will
be a great choice, and there area lot of three and four stars
and even two and one stars whoare probably biting their nails
right now, knowing that theirtime is limited.
CDR Al Palmer (01:01:34):
Well, it's a very odd juxtaposition, in a way,
because he's an actual warriorand he's been in battle.
Two bronze stars, yeah, and sohe's he's a scholar.
BG Chris Walker (01:01:48):
Was it Harvard?
And what Princeton?
STARRS Producer (01:01:52):
But again two different.
CDR Al Palmer (01:01:53):
Ivy League schools, but but again two
different ivy league schools andand uh, he was a major, I guess
, when he left the service.
BG Chris Walker (01:02:06):
So so now here's a, here's a former.
Well, we had um, what was hisname?
But maybe what was, uh was anenlisted.
So yeah, so major, you know,yeah, exactly but he's gonna now
.
CDR Al Palmer (01:02:15):
So yeah, the three and four stars have got to
now deal with the major who'sthe?
Actual combat veteran.
STARRS Producer (01:02:23):
And also he wrote the book on DEI and the
military and how it harms.
And so, General Walker, what'sgoing through the minds of all
the DEI people in the Pentagonright now?
BG Chris Walker (01:02:36):
I imagine many of them, especially the really,
really higher-ups, are figuringout ways to hide those offices
so that they can try to wait outthe storm.
(01:02:56):
Well, for instance, theSecretary of the Air Force
Office of DNI is no longer there.
They folded that under theAssistant Secretary of the Air
Force of Manpower and ReserveAffairs in a sort of resiliency
role to try and hide it, becausethey saw the writing on the
wall.
But with Pete Hedges in there,and especially if Matt Lohmeyer
(01:03:21):
comes in as part of a task force, all of that will be rooted out
and it will be gone, and Iwouldn't mind being there
helping them.
CDR Al Palmer (01:03:33):
And so, for those of our audience that might not
recognize the Matt Lohmeyer name, he was Lieutenant Colonel who
was thrown out of the Air Forcebecause he was exposing Marxism
and the lack of leadership inthe new Space Command Space
Force.
So yeah, but he's a soldier inline with Hegseth.
(01:03:54):
They're both characters of thesame cloth, almost, so that's
going to be interesting to seehow that works.
Well, general, listen.
Thank you so much for beingwith us here today, walking us
through some of that history andsome of your great experiences,
and thank you for serving yournation and for flying and your
(01:04:15):
story about getting into flyingand the Air Force.
BG Chris Walker (01:04:19):
If I didn't love it I wouldn't have stayed
so long.
I'm telling you the peoplewithin the DOD, or the thing
that kept me in.
I saw tastes of civilian lifeand went.
I'm not going to get the samecamaraderie.
CDR Al Palmer (01:04:40):
And that's why I stayed so long.
Well, and hopefully there'll besome young people perhaps
watching this who might beinspired by some of that.
I hope that they will, and ifthey've listened carefully to
what we've talked about, there'senough material there for them
to digest.
BG Chris Walker (01:04:54):
Remember young people, we want butt kickers.
CDR Al Palmer (01:04:57):
Well, that's exactly what we're going to get.
We've had them before.
We'll concentrate on thatGeneral.
I promise you we'll do that.
Thank you for being with us andto our audience.
Thanks for being with us foranother special edition of Stars
and Stripes.
We're not shy about tellingpeople how it is, and we're here
(01:05:18):
to try to see if we can be asolution to some of that problem
in our country, and onlybecause it's got to work for you
, the people out there watchingthis podcast.
Thanks for being with us.
We'll look forward to seeingyou next time.
This is Alan Palmer signing offIn general.
Thanks for being with us.
Hello America, welcome back to STtars and
Stripes.
This is your host, commander AlPalmer, united States Navy and
also United States Air Force, bythe way, in my earlier days,
when I finally got the word thatthe Navy went to sea and that
was a little bit better.
Anyway, it's good to be backwith you for another special
edition of Stars and Stripes andwe've got a very interesting
(00:37):
time that we're facing right now, post-election and back to days
when we're talking about how wecan make our country a little
bit better.
One of the things that we'regoing to do today is talk about
solutions to some of theproblems that we here at STARS
have been talking about forquite a long time now.
Several years STARRS has beenon track with trying to get the
(01:01):
military and the community ingeneral in the United States to
understand the threats that weface and to make sure that we
have the adequate force to beable to defend the country
against anybody who might wantto take us on.
So part of that today is goingto be discussing how we go
forward and the things that weneed to do to make the country a
(01:23):
little bit better.
Forward and the things that weneed to do to make the country a
little bit better.
To do that, I've got a veryspecial guest with me today.
He's a general officer,rigadier General Christopher S
Walker, affectionately known byhis handle in the Air Force of
Mookie.
But, general, it's a greatpleasure, sir, to have you with
us today and I want to just letour audience know that you've
(01:47):
been a part of STARRS now forsome time and you've been a
really vocal voice in makingsure that we let people know how
we can correct some of thethings that are, in fact,
challenges for us today.
So, general, welcome to theprogram and let our audience
know a little bit about yourself.
I won't do that because I wantyou to tell us in your own words
(02:10):
how you got into the Air Force,how you got into the Air Force
Academy and how you had such agreat career flying.
So please let us know how thatworked.
BG Chris Walker (02:21):
Okay, so first let me tell you that I grew up
in Jamaica, queens, new YorkCity, and if I walk out of the
house, go into the street andturn to the left, as long as I
don't get hit by a car, I couldwatch planes taking off from JFK
(02:47):
and landing at JFK 24-7.
And that was one thing thatmoved me.
But then I must have been fiveor six years old, or six years
(03:10):
old, and my, my, my, my parentscame from actual Jamaica, west
Indies, down in the Caribbean.
My father came to the country1957, my mother in 1959, 1960,
but for both of my parentsworked, and so for summers, for
summers, I would go down toJamaica and stay with my
grandparents and my aunts anduncles.
(03:30):
And I remember on a flight againwhen I was maybe five or six
years old and I can't rememberwhether it was TWA or Eastern or
it was an airline that doesn'texist anymore, but back then
they used to let you into thecockpit and as a kid the captain
(03:54):
says come on up here, and heput his hat on my head and then
they gave me a plastic set ofwings and showed me all of the
instruments and at that age Isaid this is what I'm going to
do Now.
My father, so something aboutand it's still almost the same
(04:20):
way now, but something aboutWest Indiania, new caribbean, uh
, parents, they want their kidsto be doctors, lawyers and that
kind of thing, and it's, it's.
It's similar to uh east asian,uh south asian and all that, and
my father was trying to dictatemy career and he wanted me to
(04:43):
be a medical doctor and all ofthe mentors he brought to me of
his friends were doctors ordentists, and I said that's all
well and good, thank you, butthat's not what.
I want to do, but they werepushing that into me.
But I was resolute.
I've always been a maverick,I've always been sort of an
(05:08):
outlaw, and so, uh, I, I, Iignored all of that and I'm uh,
and I wanted to fly, so my, myparents did not have the money
to send me to any kind of flightschool, have the money to send
me to any kind of flight school.
And I determined as a kid OK,the best way to do this is
(05:30):
through the military, and in mymind, because I had no idea that
the Navy, Marines and Army hadaviation in my mind, I said Air
Force.
I said, well, that's what I gotto do, yeah, right.
So, I went to a recruiter inQueens there it's coincidental,
(05:57):
but it's Jamaica Avenue, butit's a major street there in
Jamaica, queens, and my parentsare from Jamaica, west Indies,
but anyway and that recruiter asrecruiters do said you want to
fly?
Okay, I got you.
Yeah, yeah, just sign here.
But I was only 17 at the time.
And I said, okay, you got to getyour parents' permission.
(06:18):
I said all right, I'll just,I'll wait a while.
Thank God, that senior year ofmy high school, which I went to
Brooklyn Technical High School,which is one of the three
specialized engineering andscience high schools in New York
(06:41):
City, During a career day Idon't know whether they call
them gold bar lieutenants backthen, but they had a lieutenant
who just graduated from the AirForce Academy come and visit my
school and I looked at him and Isaw that uniform and I said
(07:03):
that's that uniform that TonyNelson from I Dream of Jeannie
wears.
I think he's in the Air Force.
Let me go talk to him and somost of our audience will know
that reference.
Some of the younger ones willnot, but I went to talk to him
and I said hey you know what.
I've been talking to a recruiterbecause I want to fly for the
(07:23):
Air Force and he said wait aminute.
You've been talking to arecruiter because I want to fly
for the Air Force and he saidWait a minute, you've been
talking to a recruiter.
What kind of recruiter?
Oh, I'm a Jamaican Avenue, hesaid but you, you need to be an
officer.
And I said why do I have to bea cop?
And he goes no, no, no.
Do you know the differencebetween enlisted an officer?
I was go what?
And he said, holy smoke, he satme down and he schooled me and
(07:49):
I learned that I need abachelor's degree.
And then he mentioned the AirForce Academy.
He mentioned ROTC and OTSOfficer Training School and he
said and at that time it wastrue, he said but if you really
want to fly, you got to go tothe Academy, because they'll
(08:10):
take all the flight slots foreverybody there who's qualified
and then they'll give the crumbsto ROTC and OTS.
And I said thank you.
And after that I went straightto the guidance counselor's
office and the guidancecounselor knew about West Point
but really didn't know about AirForce Academy, and she said
(08:30):
I'll get you some info.
I said, never mind, there wasno internet back there, so I had
to get myself to a library anddo all the research.
But the Air Force Academy isthe only college I applied to,
much to my father's chagrin.
He was livid about this becausehe still wanted me to go to
(08:50):
medical school and I said, eh,spread the wealth yeah.
And he was really upset that Irefused to fill out any
applications for any othercollege.
By that time there were severalthings that were against me to
get in the academy.
First of all, starting in mysenior year of high school and
(09:13):
then, secondly, after I took allthe tests and the physical
fitness tests and all themedical screening by March or so
, one of my classmates, johnCosman, at high school, he said,
hey, I got an appointment atthe academy.
(09:34):
I said, okay, mine should becoming soon.
All right, it did not.
And I waited and waited andthen at that point my father was
like okay, well, this is theonly one he applied to, let's
make some calls.
We called up the admissionsoffice and they said hey, we're
(09:55):
still waiting for your medicalrecords from Dodd-Murb.
I said I did that back inNovember, so we call up
Dodd-Murb and Dodd-Murb.
I said I did that back inNovember, so we call up
Dodd-Murb and Dodd-Murb said ohyeah, we sent that to Coast
Guard Academy and MerchantMarine Academy and then we said
I didn't apply to either of them.
CDR Al Palmer (10:17):
Now, where do I want to?
BG Chris Walker (10:18):
go, and then they tried to get things
together, but by then they hadpicked who they're going to pick
for the year and then they toldme OK, we'll have you on
standby if you want.
And I said what, what does thatmean?
And then we talked, and wetalked some more with the
admissions office and theyrealized, ok, sorry, it's not
(10:38):
your fault, it's their fault,the fault of Dodmer would you
accept an appointment to the AirForce Academy Prep School?
And I said what's that?
And they explained it.
But they pretty much said hey,if you make it through that,
you're getting to the Academythe next year.
I said that's what I'm going todo.
My father was going.
Hey, how about Queens College?
STARRS Producer (11:00):
How about SUNY?
BG Chris Wal (11:00):
Bristol-Lennybrook .
I said, no, no, this is whatI'm gonna do, and so I went to
the prep school and then thenext year I got into the academy
.
But that is how I got into theair force, I mind you, my in my
mindset was just being a pilot,an astronaut, and obviously I
(11:22):
didn't make astronaut, butnevertheless, it was the Academy
, though through all of ourtraining and being around people
from all of the United States,actually all over the world, we
had foreign exchange students.
That put me into the mindset ofno, the purpose of this thing
(11:46):
is not to just be a pilot, it isto be a career officer and lead
, and so things changed for me,probably around my three-degree
year, my sophomore year.
CDR Al Palmer (12:00):
So how did that change you, other than the
leadership portion of it andbeing an officer rather than
just an aviator?
But how did the Academyexperience change your life?
BG Chris Walker (12:12):
All right.
So in New York City, and tothis day, it is the same way New
York City people who grew upthere or grew up there.
They are indoctrinated to thinkanyone with a Southern accent is
stupid and they're also.
(12:34):
And then in my neighborhood andcertain minority neighborhoods
the indoctrination is oh yeah,white people, all rich and as
such.
And when I got to the academy Imet white people who were so
poor they didn't even have abathroom or a working toilet in
(12:57):
their own house, they had to goto outhouses.
I said I thought that wasLittle House on the Prairie,
stuff.
It still goes on.
I met then met people from theSouth Alabama, arkansas and such
who I had to rely on to help methrough calculus and
thermodynamics and I said, okay,everything I was brought up to
(13:20):
believe was BS, as brought up tobelieve was BS.
CDR Al Palmer (13:31):
And so the academy changed me in order to
find out that stereotypes arestereotypes.
And isn't that the beauty,though, really, of the military?
It relies on meritocracy andyour ability to perform
regardless of who you are whereyou're from or anything else.
BG Chris Walker (13:46):
It's a very affordable force, isn't it?
Especially if you go throughSiri, all of the folks who grew
up in the country, and all of usin the city.
We had our fingers around thecountry boys' belt loops because
otherwise we were going tostarve.
So I said, okay, I now knowthat the folks in New York City,
(14:09):
if there was ever some EMP andit cut off everything, they
would resort to cannibalism inthree days, whereas the folks in
the country would be like we'refine.
CDR Al Palmer (14:18):
We'll be okay with this.
But it's also the, isn't italso the self-discipline that
you gain out of that and theability to depend on yourself to
solve problems rather thanfinding escape routes, and all
that.
I remember when I got intoofficer training school with my
(14:38):
golf clubs and my sports cararriving, thinking I was going
to have a great time, and withinhours I found myself on all
fours cleaning the toilet with atoothbrush and that's and
that's that's.
Don't you think that's kind ofwhat happens?
Is you got to get depressed alittle bit to the point where
(15:00):
you get rid of a lot of your ownexternal self factors and have
to rely on being good and beingable to work with other people?
That's the part that we tryhere in STARS right to let
people know about it.
BG Chris Walker (15:14):
Oh, my goodness , I am actually grateful to God,
grateful to Jesus, that I wentto the prep school before I went
to the academy, because, if Iwent straight into the academy I
would have been kicked out, nodoubt, Because in my
neighborhood when somebody comesup in your face yelling at you,
you punch them in the jaw andit took.
(15:34):
And so if they as cadets at theacademy, it's people your age
doing that and it's like okay,where I come from, it's a fight.
When I went to the prep school,we had actual technical
sergeants and master sergeantswho were our training
(15:57):
instructors and they're a littlemore intimidating and they
taught me how to be in themilitary and I realized, okay,
okay, okay, they're not doingthis because they want to fight.
They're doing this becausethey're trying to make you
better and so thank God, I wentto the prep school first.
CDR Al Palmer (16:17):
So do you think that's the case, looking forward
a little bit in today's world,with the academy and it's even
true with with officer trainingschool and even rotc, do you
think that there's that kind ofactive membership in the service
, that is, that are theinstructors to the point where
they're able to relate not justeducational material but also
(16:40):
the, the requirements forleadership and character,
integrity and that old word?
I know that you and I like somuch experience.
BG Chris Walker (16:51):
I'll say this.
So a lot of the left will tryto say, oh, folks coming into
the military need to be led bysomeone who looks like them, and
I say that's bunk and that's acop out.
Good leadership knows how tohandle everybody and I've read
(17:17):
books of folks during World WarII Navy they call them the
Golden 13.
The first Naval officers afterWorld War II and their testimony
said there are white leadersthere who actually inspired and
motivated them and there weresome who still had that
(17:40):
prejudice.
But again it's all part ofleadership prejudice.
But but again it's all part ofleadership.
Anybody can be a good leaderand anybody who says that that
me as a fresh black recruit, Ineed to have a black commander
in order to perform then thosepeople have no reason to be
advising the military at all.
They don't know their buttsfrom a hole in the ground.
(18:01):
Leadership is leadership it'sinteresting.
what in a hole in the ground?
Leadership is leadership.
CDR Al Palmer (18:06):
It's interesting.
In my days in the museumbusiness, I got to know General
Benjamin Davis.
Yes, and General Davis was aremarkable leader too, but he
had the same attitude.
It wasn't about who you were,where you came from, what you
look like, you know how well canyou fly, Can you do the job,
(18:28):
and that's what has been thehistory of our military from the
earliest days.
Yeah, there's always been someprejudice, there's always been
people who have different waysof looking at things, but, in
the final analysis, if you can'tfight, if you can't work as a
team, you're not going tosurvive.
And survival, is it not?
Not is one of the the, the keysto this right.
(18:49):
It's not just you, it's theteam too.
BG Chris Walker (18:52):
There, no one's going to survive in a firefight
or an air battle if you don'thave everybody working on the
same frequency we have a lot ofso-called experts who are
telling the military how weshould think, yep, with CRT, dei
and all of that, but they'venever been in the combat Air
(19:29):
Force Navy Marines with anattitude that, oh, I only want
to follow people who look likeme, or Hispanic, or Black or
whatever.
That all disappears when thebullets start flying and then
they look for the people whothey know they're going to live.
If they hang with, they'regoing to live.
I've seen it over and overagain.
And folks who might look likeme, if they're clowns and I'm
(19:50):
going to die with them, I'll saysee you later, I'm going with
the white guy.
It happens over and over again.
So it's just about leadership.
It's about survival.
The survival instinct kills allof the other prejudices and
indoctrination.
The survival instinct.
(20:12):
All the external factors getthrown to the wayside when
survival comes.
CDR Al Palmer (20:18):
Well, and you and I, as aviators, know that when
someone in combat gets shot down, especially if at night or
something, no one's going tostop and ask where they came
from.
BG Chris Walker (20:29):
North or.
CDR Al Palmer (20:29):
South, white, black, you know, asian.
No one asked what, what,anything other than where are
they?
How can we get in there?
And then people go in, risktheir lives to rescue them and
and and when they're all backtogether, they go out and have a
beer at the bar and everybody'shappy.
I wish that our life in ageneral society could be more
(20:53):
like that sometimes.
BG Chris Walker (20:56):
So I've been flying in combat and on the
ground in combat and what I haveobserved is that brings people
together tighter than actualfamilies.
I've seen over and over you andI are old enough to have seen
(21:20):
people's marriages thatdissolved because they would not
talk to their spouse about whatwas going on, but they would
talk to their shipmates, theirwingmen, their foxhole mates
about what was going on and thespouses couldn't handle not
(21:41):
being read in on this and theycouldn't handle the tightness
and and it ended marriages.
CDR Al Palmer (21:47):
But but combat brings people together tighter
than anything does indeed, soyou still stay in contact, I
know, probably with the, withthe guys you flew with.
BG Chris Walker (21:58):
Oh, yeah, the guys I flew with and the guys I
was, uh, in baghdad.
With a Matter of fact, the guysI was in Baghdad with, they're
having a little get-togethernext Wednesday, but I can't do
that because my girlfriend'sbirthday is next week, so I say
(22:19):
that takes precedence.
So I'm going to be with her,but nonetheless I would like to
be there because this is a tightgroup.
We were there in baghdad from2003 to 2005.
I was there 2003 to 2004.
But again, the whole group, weall know each other and we all
support each other to this day,like, like family and all of the
(22:41):
folks I flew with in combat.
all of them were still like this, like a tight-knit fist, and
I'm tighter with them than I amwith a lot of members of my own
family.
CDR Al Palmer (23:01):
And we stay that way with them too.
In fact, we've got folks likethat here at STARS.
In fact, one of the guys that Iflew with in F4s is another
STARS member and that's kind ofhow I got here actually and Ron
Olds, who's a member of ourboard.
Ah, yes, okay, so Ron and Iflew F4s together, but you're
(23:22):
right, it's that last four yearswith us.
It's been over 50 years and wesee each other not regularly,
but when we do it's like time isnot passed yeah.
BG Chris Walker (23:35):
It's like it was only a couple of days ago.
It was exactly.
The fire does not die.
CDR Al Palmer (23:42):
No, it doesn't.
But don't you think it's thatkind of bonding and that
relationship that exists betweenpeople in teams in a service,
whether you're a wingman orwhether you're a sailor on a
ship or whatever you're doing,that you have to rely on
everybody else, right?
And if you're a leader, it'seven worse, isn't it?
(24:03):
You've got to get into theirworld and their mindset and make
sure that they're taken care of.
BG Chris Walker (24:11):
So two things with that.
I'm going to start by sayingagain, the so-called experts are
trying to tell us what to do,but what they say is
counterintuitive to what NFL,nba and Major League Baseball
does.
And they've been doing it rightfor decades and decades.
(24:38):
Again, it got integrated 50sand 60s.
But nowadays all they careabout is can you catch the ball,
can you hit a home run, can youget the ball in the hoop?
And the coaches you don't haveminority players going oh, I
(25:00):
can't work for this coachbecause he's white Whereas the
left is trying to tell us in themilitary that that's what we
should be doing.
They don't know anything, allright.
So again, I always try to saylet's follow the professional
athlete model and if they wantdiversity, fine, I'm good with
(25:25):
diversity, but let's do it theright way.
It will happen, naturally, ifwe go out there and inspire
people to be on our team andthey put out the effort to be
the best and they will come tous, but if we always incentivize
by saying oh, we'll pay foryour college.
(25:47):
We'll do this.
No, no, no, no, no.
We need people who want tofight for the United States.
Everybody else meh stay home.
Do something else.
The military is not foreverybody.
STARRS Producer (26:00):
Yes.
BG Chris Walker (26:02):
We need butt tickers.
It is what it is we need to beoperating like professional
sports and everything will takecare of itself.
CDR Al Palmer (26:12):
So it's different than working for IBM or Amazon
or Morgan Stanley or any othercompany, or even if you're a
doctor or a lawyer, the the, asyou say.
The difference is we have to beexceptional at what we do not
ordinary, because of the demandsof the job itself.
And it is dangerous, it'slife-threatening, it requires
(26:37):
commitment, it requires honestyand integrity.
So that makes everybody alittle different when they get
in the military, which brings meto the subject of so how did we
get here with the DEI CRT?
How did that creep in, do youthink, into the military, which
you would think would be thelast place?
(26:59):
It would probably occur.
BG Chris Walker (27:03):
So this will be controversial, but again, I
don't care, because I'll say itto Obama's face it was Obama
that did that and he got rid ofcertain leaders in the military
and he brought in his believersand he was trying to transform
the United States.
(27:23):
And that crept in little bylittle and I saw that with
certain superintendents ofservice academies and little by
little it started creeping in.
But again, the left Marxiststhey do the long march.
They won't come crashing in.
(27:45):
They're going to do it littleby little and if they can take
over the education of ouryoungsters, everything will take
care of itself.
That's how they've done it inthe past, once President Trump
came in in 2016, they said holysmokes this is messing up our
(28:09):
agenda, this is messing up ourstrategy.
And they came out of thewoodwork exposing themselves for
what they really, really wantto do.
And I say thank God for that,because then these last four
years Americans woke up and andI'll say I can.
(28:31):
I'll say this I saw thetransformation over the last.
So I I go up to New York Citypretty often to take care of my
mom.
We, my sister and I, hiredsomebody to live with mom 24-7.
Mom is 91.
But sometimes it takes morethan one person.
So my sister will go up there,I'll go up there.
(28:53):
I go up there more often becauseI'm retired now, my sister has
to take leave and so I'll do it.
But whenever I'm in New YorkCity, in Queens, in my
neighborhood, my mom hates it.
But I will wear t-shirts thatsay things like keep women's
sports female, or t-shirts thatsay my pronouns are N-O-R, slash
(29:20):
, m-a-l, normal or proudAmerican garbage, and I expect
people to say something to me.
To my surprise, most of thereactions were, yeah, from black
people in my neighborhood, andthat's why I said, okay, they're
waking up.
I know how this election isgoing to turn out.
CDR Al Palmer (29:44):
Because it's an American thing.
BG Chris Walker (29:46):
That's right, that's right.
And then when I talk to my mombecause on each Sunday she will
keep the TV on church sermonsand such, jimmy Swaggart's
channel and such, and so then Istart saying to mom okay, so is
(30:06):
that what you believe?
She goes, yeah, yeah.
I said here's what the personyou voted for says, and she goes
.
They said that.
I said, mom, are you not payingattention to what the people
you vote for say?
And she says no.
And so I've been transformingher as well.
CDR Al Palmer (30:24):
So that kind of brings us back to the point of
talking about how it got intothe military.
But the military has beennotably apolitical.
We're supposed to be that waybecause we're not supposed to
take sides on things.
We're only supposed to lead andperform right.
We're only supposed to lead andperform right.
So if that's the case, then howdo people justify having DEI
(30:49):
there as a political arm of anideology?
BG Chris Walker (30:54):
So unfortunately, and we all know
this and anybody who saysotherwise is ingenuous when you
get to three and four star level, you have to play the game.
And you get to the three andfour-star level, you have to
play the game and you have to bepolitical.
And this past administration,especially Obama's
(31:16):
administration, they said, okay,this is what we have to do.
To get up there, we do it.
Trump's administration he wentagainst that and some of them
went rogue on him because theyprobably didn't expect him to
last more than one term and theywere resistors, but they
(31:38):
weren't going along with theAmerican public.
They were going along with theadministration.
STARRS Producer (31:42):
I saw that.
BG Chris Walker (31:43):
We all saw that , and so I lost a lot of respect
for a lot of higher-rankinggenerals and admirals.
Well, I will not hide fromanybody.
Let me know.
(32:03):
Anytime I come to DC I'll goright up to them and tell them
to their face.
But yeah, I lost the respect ofa lot of them because they were
going along with the politicsand not with the Constitution.
But they saw that as their wayto rise.
I think that's about to come toa crashing halt now.
CDR Al Palmer (32:25):
Do you think that part of that was due to the
influence of the SES and highergrades in the Pentagon and or
political appointees?
Because again, if the militaryis supposed to be apolitical.
I think we're talking aboutthose of us in uniform, but that
(32:45):
doesn't necessarily apply, doesit?
To the civilian side?
BG Chris Walker (32:50):
You have to understand how the promotion
system and assignment systemgoes within the military, within
all the services, within themilitary, within all the
services, and so the promotionsystem at a certain level it
becomes very political, but thenthe people that they bring up
(33:14):
there are gonna be making thechoices on who will become the
next wing commanders and such,or the next brigade commanders,
and so it all flows.
It's all part of the long marchand some of us have been
watching and going okay.
Okay, and I'll tell you thisBefore I retired, I did a study
(33:41):
within the Pentagon on thepromotion system at the behest
of the Hispanic caucus and suchbut nevertheless what I did find
is that there are certaingenerals, the deputy commanders
of this is the Air Force.
the deputy commanders within themajor commands, the MAJCOMs,
(34:08):
have inordinate influence on whogets promoted in that promotion
board and we found two cases ofwing commanders who had failed
major inspections being promotedto the one star and I said
there you have it.
If that doesn't say that it'srigged, nothing else does so.
CDR Al Palmer (34:33):
so, and when it comes, though, to the promotion
I my experience was in my timein Vietnam there were a few
people who really stood out, youknow, people like General Robin
Olds.
BG Chris Walker (34:47):
Oh legend.
Yeah, I even tried to get mymustache like his at one time,
but you know our hair isdifferent.
CDR Al Palmer (34:56):
Yeah, a great guy and he ended up being a
superintendent there at the AirForce Academy.
But he rose to be a one-starbut he was controversial.
Yeah, he was controversial, buthe was controversial in the
sense that he was not wanting togo along with just getting
things done and then leaving.
He hid his own combat servicejust so he could stick around
(35:20):
and fly with his guys.
And there were other peoplelike that.
You know General Paul Tibbetts,the commander of the.
B-29s that dropped the bombs thesame way.
But he only made one star, andthat was it, Chuck.
BG Chris Walker (35:35):
Yeager, if you don't go political, you will not
rise farther than that, maybetwo stars.
CDR Al Palmer (35:43):
And a lot of guys like that who were kind of
stuck down in the lower levelsof that, even though they were
the guys who were the trueheroes and the warriors in the
services.
So it seems that we'repromoting people based on
politics rather than achievementor warrior status.
BG Chris Walker (36:03):
But quite honestly, I have to say, that is
the way the world works.
Thus, what we have to do isensure, as the American public,
who will put in the propercivilian leadership so that the
(36:28):
military can be apolitical andstill get promoted on merit, and
that's very, very difficult.
I really, quite honestly, itdoesn't matter which side.
That's going to be a difficultnut to crack, but we have to get
the civilian leadership inthere, the SecDef, the assistant
(36:49):
secretaries, all of those whorun an organization, so that,
hey, all I want you all to do iswin the wars.
Let us take care of thepolitics and things will get
better.
STARRS Producer (37:07):
Hey Al, so getting back Al.
CDR Al Palmer (37:08):
Yes.
STARRS Producer (37:09):
Excuse me, podcast producer Cindy here.
General Walker, what is therole of the civilian
policymakers in the Pentagon inpushing the DEI agenda, because
I don't think that their role isreally known.
People kind of focus on themilitary, but can you tell us
about the policymakers?
BG Chris Walker (37:32):
Okay.
So let me say this Again thoseof us in uniform realize who's
really in charge.
Thus, if they start pushingcontroversial policies, most of
(37:56):
the time you'll find the folksin uniform.
That's going, yeah, boss.
And very few people have thefortitude to be the Cassandra
(38:22):
Sandra.
And here's one example of thathappening.
I was in a meeting where acertain civilian leadership was
trying to figure out a way toconvince the American people
that drag shows on.
Air Force bases were okay, andI'm one of the few uniformed
people in that room.
I'm just listening to peoplejust go yeah yeah, well yeah, I
(38:44):
remember in Vaudeville they'rejust coming with every excuse
they could.
And then I finally just said tohell with it, because I was
going to retire in a year anyway, so it doesn't matter.
And so I said, so, do we allowburlesque shows?
Do we allow negligee orlingerie shows on the base?
(39:08):
Well, no, then why would we dothis?
Why would we do this?
To appease less than 1% of theUnited States population.
And I just put it out therelike this.
And then another person came inand said, well, yeah, back in
1980-something we did ban thosekind of shows.
And so, yeah, maybe this isn'ta good idea.
But I said, if I hadn't saidanything, they would have
(39:31):
convinced themselves that, yeah,we're going to push forward
with this and we're going toconvince the American people
that they are crazy.
CDR Al Palmer (39:39):
Do you think that's partly, though, because
people talk about DEI, and thosekinds of things with appealing
to other groups are fundamentalto using that as a force
multiplier so that we havebetter people, that we appeal to
them, we get them in, and allof a sudden they're now the
(40:01):
strength of what we're doing.
BG Chris Walker (40:05):
I've watched all of this and I watch who,
within the force, are the truebutt kickers and I say, if that
particular community were, webrought them in, they were the
ones.
Okay.
So let me put it this way sothe British brought in Nepalese
(40:32):
warriors, the Gurkhas, and theywere a force multiplier because
they were true A-kickers?
Okay, if you want to appeal tothem, fine, here this community.
Oh, I don't know why this isdoing all this fireworks behind
me.
Sorry, I guess I have to watchmy hand movements.
(40:58):
But, again this certaincommunity they're trying to
appeal to.
If they were to come in likeGurkhas and chopping people's
heads off and making the enemyfear us, then fine, appeal to
them.
But they're not, they are not,and so let's stop trying to
appeal to people who are notgoing to make a difference in
(41:19):
our butt-kicking ability.
CDR Al Palmer (41:22):
That's controversial, but I said it and
I'll say it to anybody's face Idon't care a little bit here,
knowing that that's a problem,that we have these things that
have occurred, which areweakening the services and being
(41:45):
corrosive.
How do we go forward?
What would you do if somebodyis ahead of the military
somewhere, whether it's in thePentagon or in the field?
What would be your model forsomeone that could do that?
What would they look like?
What would be your model forsomeone that could do that?
BG Chris Walker (41:57):
What would they look like?
I'll put it right back to theprofessional athlete model.
I say let's go and do it, justlike the NFL does it.
We have to start early.
We have all these people say wecan't militarize our kids.
Yeah, whatever.
I differ with that opinion.
We need to start at age like 10to 12 years old, inspiring them
(42:20):
well with flying, with, withtanks, with, with scuba, diving,
everything that sort ofadventure.
And then then sponsorcompetitions and they uh, and
for instance, with flying, wecan do it with virtual reality,
vr, similar to what they'redoing now with pilot training in
(42:44):
the Air Force and Navy.
And then we have statecompetitions and national
competitions, the ones who arethe butt kickers in that, if
they have the propensity toserve, then we, the DOD, sponsor
them to get their pilot'slicenses in real aircraft.
(43:05):
But the same thing can be donewith cyber and all of that.
But for the flyers who don'twant to serve in the military,
then let the airlines pick upthe tab and bring them up.
But there's ways to do this.
We have Little League, baseball, football, basketball,
(43:26):
everything.
It's soccer.
We should be doing the samething and by the time they reach
age 18 to 22, some of them aregoing to be Olympic level
already.
And here's the other thing Forthose who are worried about
diversity everybody wants to win, and so there will be plenty of
(43:46):
Black kids, plenty of Hispanickids, plenty of girls and plenty
of gay people, but they justwant to kick butt.
Take them.
All we want are the buttkickers.
That's it.
CDR Al Palmer (44:03):
It's all making things go boom and disappearing.
So one of the people I had thefortune of meeting when I was a
museum director was CliffRobertson, the actor.
BG Chris Walker (44:16):
Oh my gosh.
CDR Al Palmer (44:18):
I'm old enough to remember him in a lot of movies
, yeah.
Yeah, and, and, and, and hebecame a pilot, but.
But I had him one day for afundraising dinner and I asked
him I said so what got you intoaviation?
And, like you, chris, he saidwell, I was a young kid in San
Diego and there was an airfieldright there at Torrey Pines,
(44:39):
which was right on the edge ofthe cliffs years ago.
And he said I take my bike andI go there and lean it up
against the fence and watch theairplanes, kind of leaning over
the fence.
And he said one day one of thepilots came by and says hey, kid
, you know you want to go fly.
And he says, well, yeah.
And he said well, if you washmy airplane every day for the
next couple of months, I'll takeyou flying.
(44:59):
And he did, and that's what gothim interested in flying, just
like you did, and pretty muchlike I did too, as a kid,
parking my bicycle at the end ofthe runway when my dad was at
Langley Air Force Base, Anyway.
But that's the whole point,isn't it?
We need to inspire people towant to serve, in spite of who
(45:23):
they are, where they're from,because we can do that in our
country Other places can'treally but instead, it seems-.
BG Chris Walker (45:30):
Part of my testimony.
When I was an expert witnessfor students for fair admissions
against the United States NavalAcademy, I said the strongest
thing we can do is inspiration,and we've lost that art.
CDR Al Palmer (45:47):
And instead now what we do is.
BG Chris Walker (45:49):
We're bribing.
Oh, we'll pay for youreducation and we'll give you all
these benefits.
We need to inspire them to wantto serve.
CDR Al Palmer (45:58):
And that leads me to that next question, which is
instead of doing that you'reright, we're we're paying them.
That's a problem with thepeople who are already into
service and even when they comein, we're paying a real
instrument bonuses, bonuses toofficers just to stick around.
And the problem is, even with alot of money they're not
(46:18):
sticking around.
And that's that's disturbing tome, because you know, we used to
be able to count on familiesthat had experience in the
military service to have theirchildren, their relatives, sign
up, and now we can't even dothat and that's on the wane.
So, yeah, we've we've got towork real hard to have their
children, their relatives, signup, and now we can't even do
that and that's on the wane.
So, yeah, we've got to workreal hard, I think, now, and
(46:41):
re-inspiring people to want toserve.
And I have people like CliffRobertson, and I'd suggest
General you too.
You know, having done that,that's what we need to point to.
BG Chris Walker (47:08):
I have literally scores of friends,
retirees, who say they arediscouraging their children but
encouraging them to be thestalwarts and bulwarks against
the leftism so that our militaryactually has a chance.
Because if they, don't join andonly the brainwashed.
(47:31):
Join, then we are all done.
CDR Al Palmer (47:36):
Well, maybe there's some hope on the horizon
here.
I don't want to be too early inpredicting things, but my
grandson I got him to join theNavy as a sailor years ago
because he was kind of a waywardyoung guy in some ways, but but
, but he but he joined andserved for a a few years, but he
(47:56):
got out about a year ago andand he's and it was partly
because of all of this we'retalking about, uh, the, the
attacks on who you are, whatyou're doing and and all that,
and the paperwork and endlesslectures and things.
I think he had it well.
He just wrote me the other dayhis dad did and said guess what?
(48:17):
He's going back into the Navyas of this week.
There we go.
Now, that's, just that's just asmall story, but but I suspect
that if we at stars are moresuccessful as we have been, we
can spread that word.
Don't you think about how thisis now a new route, a new
beginning or a new awakening,perhaps?
BG Chris Walker (48:41):
I predict that after this election, all of a
sudden, the services will nothave a recruitment gap.
That's my prediction.
We'll see.
I'm willing to actually put$100 on the table about that,
(49:02):
but nevertheless.
CDR Al Palmer (49:04):
I'll join you.
BG Chris Walker (49:05):
But Stars, Calvert, Task Group, MacArthur
Society, if we start spreadingthe word that, hey, our DOD is
back let's go, let's ride hard,we will actually positively
(49:26):
affect our DoD Well, and it's areal resource.
CDR Al Palmer (49:31):
I think, as you described, we have the ability
to do it because we're not inthe middle of that cauldron
inside the five-sided puzzlepalace.
You know, we can advise anddirect a bit from the outside
right and I always, you know,like to tell people look, you
know what's what's made us great, all of these people who have
sacrificed in this long grayline, or blue line, or green
(49:52):
line, of generations of peoplewho have served for us, of which
you're, you and I are part of.
We rely on that so that we cancontinue to be a free nation,
because we're a nation ofvolunteers and we have an
all-volunteer force.
Now, right, we didn't always,yes, but we do now and, quite
honestly, there are some peoplewho are?
BG Chris Walker (50:15):
advocating to bring back the draft and, quite
honestly, I can't agree withthat because I only want people
who want to be there.
It's hard enough trying toinspire people who want to be
there, but then trying toinspire and lead people who
don't want to be there that I'llleave that to prison guards.
(50:37):
We have a Super Bowl winningDOD to build.
CDR Al Palmer (50:44):
Well, and I think our wonderful producer, Cindy,
and I have had that conversation.
I know you and I were part ofone just recently where some of
the folks are expressing theidea that people are coming into
particularly the academies, whodon't necessarily have the same
standards of integrity orhonesty it's okay, because you
(51:07):
know what this is our culturenow.
We come from a culture whereit's okay to kind of take
shortcuts, it's okay to cheat alittle bit, and so we don't
necessarily need to have a lotof integrity.
No, we do.
BG Chris Walker (51:21):
And if we don't , have people that we bring in,
and what makes it worse is whenthe leadership at the academy
goes along with that attitude,and that's why I say okay, all
is lost.
Get rid of them, raise theinstitution to the ground and
rebuild it because somethingwent wrong.
CDR Al Palmer (51:41):
But isn't it a beautiful thing to see the real
integrity, the real honesty, thereal commitment at work when
people are actually doing it.
How smoothly that goes and youcan depend on people.
Smoothly that goes and you candepend on people.
You know as, uh, as as one ofour members the other day and
stars said, uh, who was a, who'sa blue angel or was still is,
(52:02):
you're always a blue angel.
I think he says look if I'mgoing to fly my.
If I'm going to fly my airplane,I want to trust my mechanic
who's been working on it to havedone it perfectly, so I don't
even have to look at theairplane.
I can jump in, start it up,take off, fly inverted and know
that I'm not going to go augerinto the ground.
(52:23):
That's the kind of thinking andthe kind of attitude we've got
to have, right.
BG Chris Walker (52:29):
Don't you remember the good old days when
we did not have to lock ourrooms at the academy?
And we can leave money out onour desks and it'll be just fine
.
I found it interesting when Iwas stationed in Japan, january
of 95 to March of 97, in Tokyo,even a bustling city like that
(52:53):
same way, if you dropped yourwallet on the ground, you could
expect somebody to call youhere's your wallet with all your
money in it.
Oh yeah, but now at all of theacademies that is no longer the
case.
And I ask I mentor lots ofcadets at all of the academies
through the years and I try toask them was it like that with
(53:14):
you?
So I cannot pin down when thatchanged, but it has changed of
the academies through the yearsand I try to ask them was it
like that with you I?
CDR Al Palmer (53:16):
so I cannot pin down when that changed, but it
has changed so, but when youwere there, they were mostly all
active duty instructors, right?
BG Chris Walker (53:27):
yes, yes, oh lord, okay, so you got me
started.
So when I was there, so you gotme started.
So when I was there, there wasone civilian instructor and it
was psychology and that was mysenior year, so my first degree
(53:49):
year.
I can't remember his name, butnevertheless that was it.
All of the other instructorswere military and that makes a
difference, as I see thedifference now, and now it's
like 60-40, almost 50-50.
Holy smokes, they're bringingin the long march and we can't
(54:13):
allow that.
The last time I checked thehere's another controversial
thing that I'll go on a recordfor and people know that I'm
running for the board ofdirectors or the AOG.
But here's a controversialthing that I'll stand by and if
you question me, I'll say itjust as proudly Get rid of the
civilian instructors, onlymilitary instructors.
(54:36):
Bam, that's it.
CDR Al Palmer (54:40):
Well, and it's now about 40%, I think.
Last time I checked about 40%of the academies.
Roughly all of them are nowcivilian and they're mostly from
the East Coast 40%, 45%, yeah.
Ivy League, right, yeah, so youdon't.
And people make the argumentthat, well, you need the
knowledge, you need theinstruction.
You can find that in peoplewho've got.
BG Chris Walker (55:03):
What they're trying to imply is that our
military people aren't as smartas these other ones, and that is
not true.
CDR Al Palmer (55:10):
Well, they are.
BG Chris Walker (55:13):
So I say all you're doing is introducing.
You're trying to turn us intoUCLA.
We're not UCLA.
Every class that we have, Idon't care if it's English,
whatever it is we need some sortof nexus toward war fighting,
(55:34):
so that they know.
And these civilian instructorscannot do that, and so sorry.
So sorry if you, if it was mychoice, you'd all be gone.
Sorry if you lose a job, butyou could find a job at some
other college, but not at ourservice.
Love you but bye.
CDR Al Palmer (55:52):
You know, I remember our board member of
Stars, Ronald Ron Olds, and I afew years ago were having a
squadron reunion in Colorado atthe Air Force Academy and I
remember we asked thesuperintendent and one of the
one-stars that was there.
So we looked around and we seea lot of people talking about
budgeting, personnel managementyou know logistics and a whole
(56:17):
lot of other things, but wedidn't see anybody wanting to
talk about war fighting.
Are you teaching that?
And there was this kind ofsilence all of a sudden in the
room and it occurred to me thenthat that's the key that's
missing right now the Robin Oldsattitude about war fighting.
(56:39):
They worship him as a figure,but not what that's about in the
Air Force or the Navy has thesame problem.
BG Chris Walker (56:49):
I don't know if you you probably read.
It must've been three, three,maybe four weeks ago, a recent
grad out of the Air ForceAcademy lieutenant, wrote an
article about how the Academychanged her because she didn't
(57:12):
expect it to be about war andkilling I go who talked to you
before you applied, and shewants to be a conscientious
objector now and I'm of themindset all right, let her be,
but make her pay back all of themoney that we spent on her
education Again.
This is the kind of thing thatthe academies are producing now
(57:37):
and that is not what we need.
If the taxpayers are spendingtheir precious dollars on
producing warrior leaders toprotect our country, then we
need military instructors and weneed none of this mindset that
(57:57):
produces conscientious objectors.
Nothing wrong withconscientious objectors, but the
military is not for everybody.
Know what you're getting into.
CDR Al Palmer (58:13):
So another article I was reading not too
long ago and it's one of thepeople I think we got that
posted on our website discussionabout the three and four stars
again and the higher levels ofthe Pentagon.
And you know, you're right.
There's a you reach one or twostars most of the time and then
(58:33):
from there on it's really prettymuch political and it's all
behind a desk someplace.
Somebody suggested that thethree and four stars end up with
two-year tours and, just likethe Navy, you end up with shore
duty and sea duty.
You know.
So one of those two years isgoing to be in a field with an
actual hands-on command whereyou've got responsibilities for
(58:55):
people, equipment, operations,combat, and then you can come
back to the armchair and relaxand spend time with the family
for another two years.
What do you think about that?
BG Chris Walker (59:09):
So World War II was much different.
Yes, the three and four starswere there in the thick of it.
Patton was actually there onthe front lines with his people.
We will never well, I don'twant to say we'll never see that
again, but we don't see thatnow and again in my mind three
(59:34):
and four stars need to still beinspirational.
STARRS Producer (59:40):
And so, george.
BG Chris Walker (59:40):
Marshall was inspirational, ike was
inspirational, patton wasinspirational.
Nowadays, I guess they'reinspirational from their Twitter
accounts or whatever, but noone is going.
Yeah, let's go right into thegunfire with you.
(01:00:02):
That's not happening, exceptmaybe at the one or two star
level, and I think it's time fora change on that.
Again, this is controversial,but it is what it is.
I say what I say.
CDR Al Palmer (01:00:22):
Well, we got a new sheriff in town.
It looks like.
BG Chris Walker (01:00:31):
What he's thinking.
He's rapidly building hiscabinet and why.
Yesterday, when I learnedHeadsets yes, pete Hedgeseth,
yes I said okay, and I knowabout Pete Hedgeseth, but I knew
that the main opposition fromthe left would be that he was a
reporter for Fox, but they wouldnever look into all the other
(01:00:51):
things he did.
So I said this is controversial, but I'm behind it, I'm with it
.
Let's do this Because I know,because I've listened to a lot
of things that he said aboutwhere China is and where we are
and how.
I'm not sure what will bebleeped out, but he said
(01:01:14):
something like we have our headsup our butts while China is
trying to get it together, andso I said so he, I think, will
be a great choice, and there area lot of three and four stars
and even two and one stars whoare probably biting their nails
right now, knowing that theirtime is limited.
CDR Al Palmer (01:01:34):
Well, it's a very odd juxtaposition, in a way,
because he's an actual warriorand he's been in battle.
Two bronze stars, yeah, and sohe's he's a scholar.
BG Chris Walker (01:01:48):
Was it Harvard?
And what Princeton?
STARRS Producer (01:01:52):
But again two different.
CDR Al Palmer (01:01:53):
Ivy League schools, but but again two
different ivy league schools andand uh, he was a major, I guess
, when he left the service.
BG Chris Walker (01:02:06):
So so now here's a, here's a former.
Well, we had um, what was hisname?
But maybe what was, uh was anenlisted.
So yeah, so major, you know,yeah, exactly but he's gonna now
.
CDR Al Palmer (01:02:15):
So yeah, the three and four stars have got to
now deal with the major who'sthe?
Actual combat veteran.
STARRS Producer (01:02:23):
And also he wrote the book on DEI and the
military and how it harms.
And so, General Walker, what'sgoing through the minds of all
the DEI people in the Pentagonright now?
BG Chris Walker (01:02:36):
I imagine many of them, especially the really,
really higher-ups, are figuringout ways to hide those offices
so that they can try to wait outthe storm.
(01:02:56):
Well, for instance, theSecretary of the Air Force
Office of DNI is no longer there.
They folded that under theAssistant Secretary of the Air
Force of Manpower and ReserveAffairs in a sort of resiliency
role to try and hide it, becausethey saw the writing on the
wall.
But with Pete Hedges in there,and especially if Matt Lohmeyer
(01:03:21):
comes in as part of a task force, all of that will be rooted out
and it will be gone, and Iwouldn't mind being there
helping them.
CDR Al Palmer (01:03:33):
And so, for those of our audience that might not
recognize the Matt Lohmeyer name, he was Lieutenant Colonel who
was thrown out of the Air Forcebecause he was exposing Marxism
and the lack of leadership inthe new Space Command Space
Force.
So yeah, but he's a soldier inline with Hegseth.
(01:03:54):
They're both characters of thesame cloth, almost, so that's
going to be interesting to seehow that works.
Well, general, listen.
Thank you so much for beingwith us here today, walking us
through some of that history andsome of your great experiences,
and thank you for serving yournation and for flying and your
(01:04:15):
story about getting into flyingand the Air Force.
BG Chris Walker (01:04:19):
If I didn't love it I wouldn't have stayed
so long.
I'm telling you the peoplewithin the DOD, or the thing
that kept me in.
I saw tastes of civilian lifeand went.
I'm not going to get the samecamaraderie.
CDR Al Palmer (01:04:40):
And that's why I stayed so long.
Well, and hopefully there'll besome young people perhaps
watching this who might beinspired by some of that.
I hope that they will, and ifthey've listened carefully to
what we've talked about, there'senough material there for them
to digest.
BG Chris Walker (01:04:54):
Remember young people, we want butt kickers.
CDR Al Palmer (01:04:57):
Well, that's exactly what we're going to get.
We've had them before.
We'll concentrate on thatGeneral.
I promise you we'll do that.
Thank you for being with us andto our audience.
Thanks for being with us foranother special edition of Stars
and Stripes.
We're not shy about tellingpeople how it is, and we're here
(01:05:18):
to try to see if we can be asolution to some of that problem
in our country, and onlybecause it's got to work for you
, the people out there watchingthis podcast.
Thanks for being with us.
We'll look forward to seeingyou next time.
This is Alan Palmer signing offIn general.
Thanks for being with us.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!