October 18, 2024 • 52 mins
STARRS & Stripes Host CDR Al Palmer, USN ret, was joined by the presidents of three veterans organizations who are working towards eliminating CRT/DEI ideology from the military and restoring a focus on high standards and merit. They include from STARRS Colonel Ron Scott, USAF ret, USAFA '73; from the MacArthur Society Colonel Bill Prince, USA ret, USMA '70; and from the Calvert Task Group Captain Tom Burbage, USN ret, USNA '69.
They begin by discussing what made each of them want to attend the service academies and serve in the military. The conversation then steers towards the present-day challenges of recruiting the next generation of military personnel. Reflecting on the patriotic fervor of the baby boomer generation, influenced by World War II veterans, they explore the waning sense of nationalism among today’s youth. The panelists provide insights into how societal changes, educational environments, and shifting attitudes are impacting military recruitment, particularly in regions traditionally known for military support. The need for strong leadership development and integrity in young recruits is emphasized as crucial for the future of the armed forces.
The panel also navigates the complexities of military leadership, pressing concerns around recruitment and retention come to the forefront. They tackle the effectiveness of current strategies, including financial incentives and diversity initiatives, and question their impact on military cohesion. The discussion calls for a reevaluation of policies, stressing the need for mentorship and leadership that truly understands the unique demands of military service. Concluding with a focus on military academies, they advocate for reducing civilian faculty to strengthen the core values of duty and service, ensuring the next generation of leaders upholds the highest standards of military excellence.
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For more information about STARRS, go to our website: https://starrs.us which works to eliminate the divisive Marxist-based CRT/DEI/Woke agenda in the Department of Defense and to promote the return to a warfighter ethos of meritocracy, lethality, readiness, accountability, standards and excellence in the military.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Al Palmer (00:12):
Well, welcome America .
This is Alan Palmer, your hostfor STARRS and Stripes.
I'm a retired Navy commanderand I'm proud to be a part of an
organization that's wanting tomake our military strong again.
We're also intent on makingsure that we can educate people
on the necessary to do goodthings with our military in the
(00:34):
world.
Today we're going to do aspecial episode today about
wokeness and about things in themilitary that we think probably
can be corrected to keep thewarrior ethos strong and to keep
our people capable of defendingyou out there, the general
public.
So to do that, I've got threeguests today that each have a
(00:57):
very special part in what we'redoing here in STARS and related
organizations.
I'm happy to have with us againour chairman I'm sorry our
president and CEO, colonel RonScott.
He's also a doctor and we relyon him for information and
guidance on what we do here atSTARRS.
(01:18):
Ron is an Air Force Academygraduate.
He's been a fighter pilot, he'sbeen an OB-10 driver, he's also
flown C-130s and he's hadcombat commands in the Middle
East.
So we're happy to have Ron withus in the organization, but
even more so today, and we alsohave Bill Prince.
(01:40):
Bill Prince is on our board ofadvisors.
Bill is a West Point graduateand he's got a fascinating
career, having gone into theinfantry in the Army, served in
Vietnam, been a ranger, been inSpecial Forces and done things
that your average class Acitizen wouldn't even think of
doing in combat.
(02:01):
He then went into the CIA anddid some of the same kind of
things all across the world andgot a very special award from
the CIA for his heroism in doingit.
And I'm happy to say that Billis also involved in a group like
STARRS two, the MacArthurSociety, and that's a group of
(02:25):
cadets who graduated from WestPoint and picked up the mantle
of Douglas MacArthur and wantingto make sure that people knew
what duty, honor and country wasabout.
And, bill, it's great to haveyou with us here today, sir.
Also, the other side of the coinfor military service, Captain
Tom Burbridge.
Tom was a Naval Academygraduate, became a naval aviator
(02:49):
on Airedale and we're happy tohave another one of those in the
group here today Went to testpilot school, flew just about
everything that the Navy had 38kinds of aircraft with over
3,000 hours kinds of aircraftwith over 3,000 hours.
But if that wasn't enough, thenhe went into the reserves, but
also went to work for LockheedMartin for 32 years, holding key
(03:12):
management positions inLockheed Martin, including the
primary program developmentmanager and vice president, for
doing projects like the F-22Raptor and the latest F-35 Joint
Strike Fighter.
He's got more awards anddecorations and things on his
(03:33):
wall than I think I'd care tothink about.
And, tom, it's great, sir, tohave you with us here today too.
So what an all-grass group ofpeople to have at our roundtable
.
And I want to start that out forour audience by saying what
we're going to talk about todaycenters around why our citizens
serve our country, why we have avolunteer force and why it's so
(03:57):
important to keep it that way.
We have to be the shepherds andthe stewards to make sure our
country is guarded and safe fromharm.
To do that, we do rely on youngpeople to sign on to the service
and when they do, like all ofus here, we raise our hand, we
take an oath to defend thecountry against all enemies,
(04:20):
foreign and domestic, and tomake sure that we also honor the
Constitution and preserve that.
While we're doing that, at thesame time we're kind of writing
a blank check to the country sothat when we sign up, we're
going to do whatever isnecessary to make that happen,
and I don't think many of ushave thought too far about what
(04:41):
we get in return.
We know that we're going to bevalued for our service by our
people, but we don't always havea real good picture of where
we're going to go or what we'regoing to do.
But that's also the excitementand the joy, if you will.
The journey is knowing thatwe're going to be doing good
things, but not necessarilywhere we're going to end up, but
(05:02):
not necessarily where we'regoing to end up.
So with that thought, ron, whatare your thoughts on that?
How did that inspire you whenyou signed up to get into the
Air Force and go to the AirForce Academy?
How did that strike you at thetime?
Ron Scott (05:20):
Al, my journey was kind of unusual.
It's nothing that I would havepredicted or designed.
We were at the height of theVietnam War, and so in the
summer of 1969, I had to make achoice about being vulnerable
for the draft at the time orgoing to college and hoping for
deferment.
And so I didn't even know aboutthe service academies until
(05:44):
about a year before, and I wentahead and applied, knowing that
it was a full-ride scholarshipif you were selected and
appointed.
And so that was how I ended upat the Air Force Academy in the
summer of 1969.
And I have to tell you thatexperience was just discovery
for me, because now, all of asudden, I'm with and it was all
(06:08):
male in those days I am withfellow Americans who were so
excited about serving theircountry, even though we were at
war in Vietnam.
They wanted to make sure thatthey were prepared to be a
leader and effective inprotecting America in that
particular interest.
So for me it was trying to beworthy of my peers then and to
(06:32):
get through that program.
Initially I figured five yearsis worth payback for a great
education, and then I can presson to other things.
But it was as I mentioned.
It was a great discovery for meto learn about these just
superb fellow Americans thatwere willing to give their lives
(06:52):
in combat for something greaterthan themselves, and so I ended
up serving 30 years.
I mean it was I was a latecomer in terms of being
passionate about serving, butonce I was in it, there was no
way they were going to kick meout.
So that was my experience.
Al Palmer (07:13):
And did you think that the other folks that were
there, the other cadets thatwere there with you, shared that
all the way through?
Ron Scott (07:20):
Absolutely, I think and again trying to be worthy of
them.
I mean, they were pushing to,you know, be the fastest to jump
, the highest to get, you know,4.0 grade point average
academically.
And so you know I was runninghard to keep up with them and I
(07:40):
was able to cross the finishline then in 1973.
And I was able to cross thefinish line then in 1973.
Al Palmer (07:47):
So, tom, how did that work for you at the Naval
Academy?
You know similar academies butslightly different focus.
How did you feel about beingthere?
Did that experience show yousomething different than you
thought, what you were going toget when you went there?
Tom Burbage (08:04):
Actually, I went down a little different route.
I was about four years ahead ofRon.
At the time my father was acareer naval aviator.
I had been to sea with him as akid, you know, in his wardroom
for a week at sea, with theairplanes and the flight deck.
Most of my role models werenaval aviators.
At the time it seemed the onlynatural path for me was to be a
(08:27):
naval aviator and in my mind theonly way to do that was to go
to the Naval Academy.
My father was also an Academygraduate, so it was sort of in
my DNA and I went.
I fully knew what I was gettinginto Tough first summer and
then sort of the band ofbrothers forms and my closest
friends today are still myclassmates from the Naval
(08:50):
Academy.
So it's a lifelong commitmentand a lifelong experience, no
matter what path you take afteryour active duty.
I left active duty after about12 years and continued as a
reservist flying A-7s andretired with 25 years as a naval
officer.
And that 14-year overlap waswhile I was working in industry.
So I was around the militarythe whole time I was doing that
(09:12):
and around flyers, so it justworked out it was a great
adventure for me.
Al Palmer (09:18):
And certainly that helped you in the program part
of Lockheed in developingfighter aircraft and all too and
working with people who hadthat same kind of industrial
base.
Tom Burbage (09:31):
Right.
Yeah, I would only add that theleadership experience was very
transferable to industry and toleading high-performance teams
and probably is one of the mostbeneficial parts of young folks
doing a tour in the Navy or theservices, no matter how long it
is.
Al Palmer (09:47):
Yeah, it's a great experience.
Is it not Hard to duplicate anyplace else in the world?
Tom Burbage (09:53):
Correct yes, sir.
Al Palmer (09:56):
And so, bill, you had kind of a similar kind of a
route too.
You went in and did somearduous work in Vietnam, and
then came back out and then wentinto the CIA.
What an amazing journey thatone was.
But along the way you couldhave said that's it, I've had
enough, I'm out of here.
What kept you in?
Ron Scott (10:27):
I would like to go back just a little bit In this
concept of service and militaryservice and service of the
country.
My dad was in World War II,ended up as an acting battalion
commander it was ROTC, but endedthe war as an acting on the
Thai commander in Germany and mymom came from a big family and
(10:49):
she had four brothers.
All four brothers served inWorld War II.
So growing up I was essentiallysurrounded by people who had
served and what had a greatimpact on me and considering
(11:09):
that there are three pilots hereon this broadcast, I absolutely
need to mention that one of myoutcasts, who was my idol when I
was growing up my son is namedafter him was a Marine fighter
(11:30):
pilot who flew combat missionsin World War II, korea and
Vietnam.
He retired as a full countyhostess, having been
court-martialed as a major fortaking a woman of questioner to
reverse you across state lines.
Now he was okay.
(11:53):
Growing up, I have to tell youhe was larger than life, and but
all that to say that growing upas part of the baby boomer
generation and being reallysurrounded by people who had
(12:13):
gone to serve in World War IIhad a great impact on me, and so
when I told my dad that Iwanted to go into the Army and
(12:34):
he said well, you're gonna go inthe Army, you're probably
better off going in as anofficer.
And he said my experience inWorld War II was I had great
respect for those officers whohad graduated from West Point,
so why don't you go to WestPoint?
And so I did.
And then first I was there andVietnam was going on and I
(13:00):
thought, well, I'm going to bean infantry officer and I'm
going to be in Vietnam.
And so I volunteered forVietnam even before I graduated
and ended up with a great goodfortune of serving with most
Airborne Engineering Staff, ofcourse, in Vietnam.
Al Palmer (13:18):
Well.
So I think we'd all agree thatwe came from backgrounds which
kind of enabled us to get in andbe part of the military,
probably a little bit easier.
I can remember growing up on anAir Force base Langley Air
Force Base as a young guy andevery afternoon for colors, for
the ceremonies, we'd take theflag down, they'd be out there
(13:42):
in formation and they'd have acannon out there they'd shoot
off, make sure everybody knewthe flag was coming down and
then play the national anthem.
And that still exists today onmost military installations.
But you still get that feelingof being part of that even
growing up, and so some of thatstays in your DNA.
I guess, as you go through itWell on to a little different
(14:04):
view of this.
So military service, being whatit is, is almost an obligation,
but unspoken in our society.
We still have to go out andconvince people to join, and
we've done that in a number ofways.
We used to rely on militias tosupply the forces we needed to
defend the country in the earlydays.
(14:25):
That continued for a long timeuntil we got into world wars.
We had to conscript people also, in addition to having
volunteer forces, but then, whenwe became an all-volunteer
force after Vietnam.
Then we started to rely ongetting people to be able to
join and keeping them and makingsure that the forces could
(14:46):
still do the job that theyneeded to do.
That turns out to have been kindof a tough call, because in
recent years it seems like maybethat's slipping a little bit
and we're maybe not as able tohold on to people or to recruit
them as much as we used to.
Those numbers exist, but beyondthe numbers there's still the
(15:07):
issue of hearts and minds, Ithink of young people wanting to
go serve their country, wantingto do extraordinary things and
being overjoyed to do it.
How do we get that back intothe military?
Do you think Anybody want totake a shot at that one?
Tom Burbage (15:28):
I'll open up if you want.
I think there's a lot offactors that lead into the
situation we have today, Alan,and not the least of which is
the way kids are brought up,whether it's the family
situation, whether it's the K-12teaching situation.
I mean, if you talk about thecannon, at sunset, when you
(15:49):
lower the flag, it's very rareyou see an American flag even in
a classroom these days, letalone a Pledge of Allegiance,
which we said every day beforeclass started.
So the sense of patriotismthat's sort of baked into kids
of our generation is missing inmany ways, and I think what you
saw during the COVID time, whenparents were actually able to
(16:11):
look over their child's shoulderand see what they were being
taught, created a bit of arebellion against that whole
environment.
So it starts there and then itgets into.
How do you train someone tocome out of that environment and
become ready to go into fouryears later into a leadership
situation as a young leader,perhaps going to even going into
(16:32):
combat?
That's the transition that theservice academies have to make,
and that's gotten a lot tougherthese days.
Al Palmer (16:39):
Well, it's exactly right, as Ron was saying earlier
, you're faced with that whenyou get in.
It's exactly right, as Ron wassaying earlier, you're faced
with that when you get in and,for maybe the first time, you
realize how serious that is inleadership development and
integrity and what your rolewill be later as being a leader
and officer.
Yeah, that's a critical item.
Bill Prince (17:05):
Bill, what's your thought on that?
I ended up after about fouryears doing this with 11
deployments between Iraq andAfghanistan, and so I saw
firsthand in both of those whatthese young men and women were
(17:28):
doing and accomplishing, andunder very, very difficult
circumstances.
But I have to say that I feelstrongly that we are alienating
the most productive demographic,the young men and women who
(17:54):
have traditionally been in theforefront of offering their
service to our nation and defendour nation, of offering a
service to our nation to defendour nation.
We are alienating, I think, agreat many of those young men
and women and I'movergeneralizing here.
(18:15):
I recognize that, but I rememberI was not only in the
recruiting command myself and Ihad friends who were assigned to
Army Recruiting.
If you were assigned in thesoutheastern part of the United
States, you were golden, youwere going to meet your quotas
(18:36):
and they had wonderfulaccretions to your quotas.
If you were assigned as an ArmyRecruiter in some place like
Boston, then you were probablynot going to meet your quotas
with just demographics.
And I fear now that we arealienating those young men and
(18:57):
women, primarily coming out ofstrong families with military
traditions, especially from theSoutheast United States, and
instead we have been, especiallyover the last four years,
probably trying to appeal to ademographic in the Northeast and
(19:21):
the Pacific Coast which hasnever really been particularly
supportive of military service,and I think we are paying a
heavy price for that.
I just saw some statistics Ididn't mention them all ago that
my dad served in World War IIand all four of my uncles served
(19:43):
in World War II, and I saw somestatistics that parents now
with military experience are notrecommending that their kids
serve in the military.
That's tragic in my view.
Al Palmer (20:00):
Yes, indeed.
Well, and that leads just tothe question why is that
happening?
Why is it that people are beingalienated?
What's going on?
Is there something that'schanged in the last couple of
years?
Is it people just not seeingthe value, or somebody actually
(20:22):
talking to them and teachingthem that?
Is that an issue?
Ron Scott (20:27):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's the reason why STARRSformed.
We discovered that there's anideology that is infiltrating
our institutions, and for us itwas at the Air Force Academy.
So it was a little disturbing,disappointing, to see the Air
Force Academy football coacheschant Black Lives Matter seven
(20:47):
times and mention examples ofracial discrimination, racial
injustice, that were justpatently false.
If you looked at the data, wedon't have Jim Crow laws anymore
.
Mass incarcerations are easilyexplained.
Redlining used to exist inAmerica in the early 1900s, but
we stopped doing that.
(21:08):
But it's this critical racetheory and diversity, equity and
inclusion which is a praxismethod of instituting,
instilling this critical racetheory ideology, where you have
oppressor and oppressed groups.
And I have to tell you, al, ifyou look at pictures of World
(21:29):
War II cemeteries, you're goingto see from front to back, side
to side, the Judeo-Christiansymbols, mostly Christian
occasional stars of David.
The America that went to waragainst tyranny in the 1940s was
(21:49):
a Judeo-Christian groundednation, and so they had a lot to
fight for Life after death,being accountable in terms of
how we live our lives now, thechoices we make to defeat evil,
which was manifested in fascismand then later in the Cold War,
(22:10):
communism.
You know these were ideologiesthat denied people their
freedoms to worship, to speak,and so we are seeing a lot of
evidence now that that form oftyranny is creeping into our
society.
Censorship, the COVID-19vaccination that was
(22:33):
experimental, forced upon ourmilitary members over 8,000,
forced out because they chosenot to take the vaccine that
they were legally entitled notto take and so we're seeing a
lot more now being publishedthat what happened in America
during that pandemic and theCOVID-19 vaccination were
(22:55):
essentially forms of tyranny.
And so that's what we're upagainst now, and I think members
that have served in ourmilitary, who came in for the
purpose of fighting tyranny, isone force to be reckoned with,
and we've got to get more of ourmilitary folks and veterans on
board speaking out against thesedevelopments in our country.
Al Palmer (23:19):
Well, and the idea of alienating people.
I mean that's not a good thingto do.
If you're talking aboutvolunteers, you know you ask
people to give of their time,their effort and, in the
military, signing a check thatmay include their lives you know
you can't afford to becontinually alienating them.
(23:39):
They're going to leave, and Ithink that's some of what we're
seeing, don't you think so, tom?
Tom Burbage (23:44):
I think there's two parts to your answer there, al.
I think the first one is yes,you don't want to alienate
viable bodies of candidates thatcould come in and strengthen
the military.
The second piece is once you'rein a military unit, there's
nothing more valuable than unityas opposed to division.
And when you're raised in aworld of division and oppressors
(24:06):
and oppressed, as Ron said, youhave that filter into the
military leadership challenge ofhow do you now bring that back
into one unified command, themilitary?
They wear a uniform and it'sbecause they're uniform, they
have constant.
It's one unified body.
(24:27):
It's not a bunch of differentgroups that are you know either
oppressed with each other orfeel like they're oppressors.
You have to build that unityback in.
So it's a double-edged sword.
It sort of amplifies itself asit goes.
Al Palmer (24:41):
So there's always, of course, a lot of talk in the
civilian outside world aboutpeople getting together and
solving their differences, andcan't we all just get along?
And everybody ought to be ableto have a shot at doing
something.
But that doesn't work in themilitary, does it?
Because we're differentresponsibilities that are much
(25:03):
better not better, but moreresourceful in terms of having
to have people be in parts ofteams that perform so that lives
are saved and that people cando important work to save the
country.
You can't just take anybody andput them into a job and hope
that you can train them and makethem work.
(25:25):
We have to filter that out kindof in advance, which means that
the military ends up being alittle bit exclusive, not
inclusive, because we're wantingto take people who have
specific skill sets, the rightattitude, the right physical
characteristics that can do thework.
So we can't just take anybodyphysical characteristics that
(25:50):
can do the work.
So we can't just take anybody.
And you guys want to comment onthat one, because I know we
catch a little flack sometimesin the public for not being able
to say we're just going to takeanybody and we'll train them
and everybody can do this work.
That's not always the case andwhen it's happened in the
military, sometimes we try toturn that around and say, all
right, to make that better,we'll just move the goalposts,
(26:13):
we'll take standards away, we'llmake qualifications different
so that we can make everybodyacceptable, and that, in my mind
, is a recipe for disaster.
Ron Scott (26:23):
It's a huge disaster.
I'll tell you.
We see pictures now of peoplein uniform.
They're grossly out of weight,they're wearing tattoos now
they've got beards and those arethe role models now.
And I have to tell you, I'm anAir Force guy but, one of my
all-time favorite movies is TopGun and that was such a
(26:47):
motivational movie and I'veheard that recruiting went up
big time after that movie.
Al Palmer (26:55):
Oh well, it did, and one of the podcasts that we've
done was with a gent, DaveBaranek, who was an instructor
at Top Gun and did the flying inTop Gun, and he said exactly
the same thing.
They had people lining up forhalf a mile trying to get
enlisted and as officercandidates.
(27:16):
After the movie came out, itwas a huge hit and a big spike
occurred in recruiting, not justfor the Navy but for all the
services recruiting not just forthe Navy but for all the
services.
Yeah, so as I said, as I said, Ithink, earlier in, our
discussion, you know where?
Ron Scott (27:35):
where is John Wayne and Tom Cruise?
when you really need them, or orRussell Crowe you know, and
we'd pick them up at the airport, we'd bring them home, take
them to dinner and before I tuckthem into bed bed I say I'm
going to show a clip from amovie and then an entire movie,
and that's to get you motivatedfor tomorrow when I drop you off
at tulu hall.
And you start to get sworn in.
(27:56):
So the clip was from gladiatorwith russell crowe, and the
scene was when they were comingup out of the coliseum and
russell crowe was telling theseguys they're standing there with
their spears, whatever he goes.
Hey, has anybody been in themilitary, in the army?
And a couple of them said, yeah, well, the only way we're going
to survive is if we sticktogether.
(28:16):
We have to do this as a team.
And he kept emphasizing that.
And then once they kind ofdefeated all the bad guys and he
jumps on that white stallion,he's got that spear and he's
jumping around like that.
That was incrediblymotivational because he was
there to command, he was thereto fight for what was right.
And so then, after we showedthat, I said so, are you
(28:38):
motivated enough?
Okay, now I'm going to bring inTop Gun.
Good night, see you guys in themorning.
Al Palmer (28:44):
Well, and that brings us right back to okay.
So did Russell want to justtake anybody out of the crowd
and have them out there fightingthe lions?
No, you need to have the rightkind of skill sets and the right
kind of people.
Well, so you know, and thatagain is something that we can
do better at right away, youknow, and there's all kinds of
(29:04):
examples and we have them in ourgroups of calvert society,
macarthur and stars there arepeople who have done amazing
things and and doing exactlythat kind of work and performing
that way, whether it's in waror peace, and we need to start
putting examples out so youngpeople can see that, say, say, I
(29:25):
like to be like that.
Hey, that guy sounds like he'spretty cool and you're right,
that's the Tom Cruise approachat a Top Gun.
So let me ask you, but let meask you this so, okay, if you're
leadership in the Pentagon andyou look around and you say
recruiting is down, retentionkind of sucks, and I'm having
(29:47):
trouble keeping the real peoplethat we need here today, how are
we going to solve that problem?
And the answer in the pastusually has been pay them more
money.
You know, that's what they need.
They're going to get out and goout in the civilian world, so
just pay them more, give thembonuses and they'll stick around
.
That doesn't always work, doesit guys?
(30:10):
I don't think any of us actuallyGo ahead Bill.
Bill Prince (30:16):
Al.
I saw it just within the lastcouple of weeks again.
It was a quote from a retiredSergeant Major of the Army whose
, whose name escaped me now,kind of Robertson may do
something like that.
Anyway, quote from him.
This is a senior enlistednon-commissioned officer in the
(30:39):
United States Army.
The quote was the diversity isour great strength and I think,
in my conservative opinion,that's a terrible message for
senior leadership to bepromoting.
First of all, there'sabsolutely no empirical evidence
to support that.
And to follow on with what youand the others have said,
(31:04):
diversity is not our greatestthing.
Uh, the teamwork, uh the unitbeing, uh in a chain of command
and taking responsibility.
And if we're pushing this thingthat we're dividing people, uh,
dividing them by claimedidentities, uh were, were
(31:28):
destroying the, the fabric uponwhich, uh, we rely.
And, having been in severaldifferent hostile environments
over 40 years of service, um, noone, no one ever worried about
pronouns in any of the hospitalareas in which I still live.
(31:53):
Yet we have senior leadershipin the military concerned about
white rage and appropriatehormones.
I mean, this is this soundslike a harsh word, but it's a
(32:16):
cancer.
I believe that it's eating outthe fabric of our military and
we will pay in blood for thesesocial experiments for these
social experiments.
Al Palmer (32:38):
Well.
And the military?
This is not new, right?
Military has been used as atest bed for social science in
the past.
You know we've tried thosethings and found that they don't
work very well.
And yet here we are again.
It seems wanting to do thatwith the DEI business.
We already know the answer, Ithink, to the question.
The question is whether we'rewilling to do something about it
.
Tom Burbage (32:55):
Perhaps I think it gets down to promote Incentives
are a big deal If you thinkabout the way industry tends to
be walking back a lot of theircommitments.
It's financially driven andthey're seeing the consumption
of resources without the payback.
If you look at the military,it's promotion incentives.
(33:18):
We have promotions now tied tosupporting policies that promote
the kind of things we'retalking about.
So until we can get intochanging incentives, people will
respond to what's inspected,not what's expected.
As soon as we can get intochallenging policies and getting
the right incentives in placein the right places, it's not
(33:40):
gonna change much.
It's also spurred, brought on anindustry.
So you now have a wholeindustry surrounding DEI, which
today is estimated at about $15billion.
Well, with that many peopleinvolved in that industry to
promote these concepts ascontractors, hiring into both
the military and the industry,it's hard to stamp it out.
(34:01):
So it's got to come from thetop down.
It's too entrenched right now,I think, to have it done from
the bottom up.
So that's a concern.
I think we all three of us inour organizations all share a
vision that says we've got tosomehow increase awareness that
these kind of things need to bein the hearts and minds of all
Americans if you want an Americalike we do like we do.
Al Palmer (34:32):
So, ron, here's a thought, too, that Tom's comment
just brought up.
You've got people who haveinfluence because of their
seniority where they happen tobe in the DOD, inside the
five-sided puzzle palace, andthey're pushing the DEI stuff,
but they're folks that, for themost part, have not been in the
military before, not evenprobably in association with
anybody in the military, and yetthey're the ones that are
(34:53):
writing the rules, if you will,for what's going to happen.
And worse, as you guys knowfrom the times that you were in
the academies, there's a largerpercentage of the professors,
instructors, who are now comingfrom private universities, who
have not been in the military.
So my thought on that is howcan you teach somebody about the
(35:15):
finer, granular things that gowith leadership and integrity
and responsibility if you've notdone it yourself?
Ron Scott (35:25):
That's a huge problem .
It's kind of like themilitary-industrial complex
which needs to be cleaned up.
But when you look at thePentagon and you look at all of
the SESs and politicalappointees, you know they're
kind of an anchor there.
(35:46):
They carry out their agendasand if generals and admirals
agree, great.
If they don't, they just kindof write out their time until
they move on and they keepworking their agenda.
That needs to be fixed becauseeven though the
military-civilian relationshipis very important, the military
serves the civilian power.
It doesn't have to be where,even at the military level, that
(36:10):
they're constrained andinfluenced and managed by a
larger civilian force.
And so I'm not sure how we'regoing to fix that.
That fix is going to come fromCongress in terms of the laws
that manage the civil serviceand political appointees and
that sort of thing.
But Congress can fix it, theycan find out, and I'm thinking
(36:33):
the equivalent of a UCMJ forcivilians.
Why should civilians get awaywith criminal activity because
they're a civil servant, orinsubordination or mutinous
behavior, that sort of thing, orinsubordination or mutinous
behavior, that sort of thing.
And so that sounds pretty brash, pretty radical.
But I think we need to lookinto how we hold the civilian
(36:55):
element within the Pentagonaccountable.
Al Palmer (36:59):
Yeah Well, you know, the other part of that is the
amount of accountability, evenon the military side, has been
kind of sparse lately, and Ithink we need to look at that a
little bit harder too.
I mean, it's true that in a bigorganization, large
bureaucracies, a lot of peoplemake mistakes, and then who do
(37:21):
you hold responsible for that?
But if nobody's heldresponsible, then that gets back
down to the issue we weretalking about earlier.
How does the new airmen whojust signed up to go into the
Air Force have confidence thatthey're going to be treated well
or that their environment isgoing to be right, if the
leadership can't be heldaccountable or they can't do the
(37:42):
things that need to be done?
Ron Scott (37:50):
That's a challenge.
You know, when Matt Lohmeyerwas working his concerns up the
chain of command, he wasbasically told by all of his
superiors that their hands weretied.
You know this is above me,which begs the question.
(38:12):
That's an easy answer my handsare tied, but you didn't answer.
The real question is what I'mdescribing to you wrong or not?
Is it moral or immoral?
And if they choose not toanswer that question and they're
doing it because they want topreserve their position or their
rank, that gets into afundamental philosophical
question about for whom do youserve and when?
(38:33):
You swore to support and defendthat Constitution and bearing
true faith and allegiance to it.
That doesn't mean you take apass and say my hands are tied.
I know that's awfullyphilosophical and it's hard to
get people to recognize that.
That's the choice they'remaking and they can get away
with it, but at some pointthey'll be held accountable for
(38:56):
it.
And this oath really means alot and I really think in the
commissioning programs asufficient amount of time should
be spent describing what thatoath says.
You know, for instance,supporting and defending the
constitution.
It doesn't say America, itdoesn't say the department of
defense, uh, and enemies,foreign and domestic.
(39:20):
And in an earlier conversationwith tom you know he says for
the military people, you know,most of our focus on the foreign
element represent about 5% ofour population and if you add
the veterans that have servedand whatever, that might add
another 4%.
So 9% have been focused on thatpart of the oath that focuses
(39:44):
on the foreign threat.
But how about the domestic?
As Tom pointed out, 95% of oursociety should be focused on the
domestic threat and what we'relooking at today with the
ideological infiltration of ourinstitutions, with the CRT DEI
stuff, that's 100%.
I mean it affects those thatserve in the military, the 5%,
(40:07):
but also the other 95% in termsof how we are going to prosper
as a nation.
But the other part, bear truefaith and allegiance to the same
.
You know, we have to betruthful and honest and we can't
just say, okay, well, I cantake a pass on this, because it
would be too inconvenient to doanything else, and I take this
(40:31):
obligation freely.
What Nobody's forcing me to dothis, or any mental reservation,
because you're a volunteer.
This is the authenticity partyou have to be true to yourself
and that I will well andfaithfully discharge the duties.
The duties, wow.
Here's this, this conceptcalled a duty, a moral
(40:51):
obligation of the office uponwhich I'm about to enter, and we
close it off.
We used to do this, so help me,god.
I mean, that's the ultimate uhpower that we're accountable to.
But, uh, you, you know thissense of duty, wow.
And for officers, notice,there's no obey word in there,
(41:16):
like in the enlisted oath, wherethey obeyed the orders of the
president and the officersappointed over them, and the
expectation is that those ordersthat they're being given are
moral, ethical and legal.
And that COVID-19 vaccinationissue really destroyed and cut
(41:37):
into the trust that we normallyhad among our military members.
Al Palmer (41:44):
We lost, that's where alienation?
Ron Scott (41:45):
comes in right, exactly so.
There's a lot of power in theseoaths and what they say, what
they imply and what they'reexplicit about, and so I think
we need to get back tounderstanding this more clearly
and have the courage to do whatit says and means.
Al Palmer (42:09):
And our viewers who are watching this will note that
there's no expiration date onthat oath Exactly.
Tom Burbage (42:18):
I am still bound by that oath.
One of the reasons why we'reall in this endgame that we're
playing right now is that noneof our oaths have expired.
Al Palmer (42:28):
So we are still concerned.
Tom Burbage (42:31):
There's one other point that I'd like to make and
that's the sense of agenerational responsibility.
I brought this up earlier.
Today.
We enjoy the freedoms we haveand live in the America we live
in because our parents andgrandparents are willing to take
generational responsibility forthose of us who are coming
behind, and it's too rare thesedays that that's being done by
(42:53):
our generation.
I think we're starting to lookintrospectively now and say, how
did this happen?
Almost like it was an overnightsensation, but as we all know,
overnight sensations take yearsin the making.
How do we get to this situation?
Why are we suddenly confrontedas a nation with domestic
enemies?
You know we're the strongestnation in the world against
foreign enemies.
It's a domestic enemy, is hardto define, and it's hard to
(43:15):
define is the American patriot.
You know the military thatshould be more focused on
defending against the domesticenemy than the rest of you know,
than just the military.
So we sort of operate in a smallcircle and if there is some way
to increase awareness acrossthe general population,
particularly the votingpopulation, that this is an
(43:38):
extremely critical time for thiscountry and there is a domestic
enemy at work and it takes inmany shapes and many forms and
it permeates much of our society, not the least of which is the
border situation, which isdistorting all kinds of things.
You know.
At the bottom line, it canbankrupt all of our social
systems and it's starting to dothat in some of the cities that
(44:01):
we read about.
It affects gerrymandering, itaffects voting districts and it
opens the door for potentialhigher levels of fraud in voting
.
Those are fundamental to aconstitutional republic, for
potential higher levels of fraudin voting.
Those are fundamental to aconstitutional republic.
A constitutional republicdoesn't have too many things
that it has to have One.
It has to have equal justiceunder the law, it has to have
(44:24):
free and fair elections, it hasto have three equal branches of
government, and those guardrailsaround those three equal
branches are also getting veryfuzzy, you know how can you
challenge the Supreme Court?
if you're in the administrationgroup, you know.
It's just all these things aresort of happening around us and
that in its summary, in my view,is the domestic enemy doesn't
(44:45):
wear a uniform.
Al Palmer (44:48):
Well, and the domestic part of that is maybe
countered by being able to talkabout civics and history and
traditions.
But that gets us back to thisother thing that's kind of
floating around.
You know, duty, honor andcountry.
You know Douglas MacArthur wasfamous for saying that in the
60s when he was speaking to thecadets at West Point.
(45:11):
It couldn't be more true today.
But that encapsulated thatunspoken part of the citizen's
obligation to be able to helpwith the country.
And I think you're right, tom,that needs to come back into not
just the military but intosociety as well.
Bill Prince (45:29):
And we're pushing that, I know, and Bill, you can
talk about that with MacArthurSociety pushing that I know and,
Bill, you can talk about thatwith MacArthur Society, One of
the programs that we have withinthe MacArthur Society.
One of the things that we'revery concerned about and I think
(45:50):
it applies to all the serviceacademies is the number of the
increased number of civilianprofessors at West Point.
Circling back to this conceptof duty and preparing, in our
(46:10):
case, service academy graduateswith a concept of duty, I felt
when I was a cadet that webenefited greatly from having
serving military officers as ourprofessors and instructors.
(46:32):
I think in my time we had got4% of the instructors 4%, I
think, were with civilians andthose were only in areas where
we really couldn't get militaryofficers to do that.
Teaching that's one language isone that I remember.
(46:54):
We're now up to, I think, about30% civilian instructors.
And here's a problem, severalproblems with that One serving
officers, by definition, notjust to teach you thermodynamics
(47:15):
, but they're mentors and theirmentors were the best of
interest in you graduating andperhaps serving under them.
I went almost right to Vietnamand I ran into no less than six
former instructors from WestPoint in Vietnam.
(47:37):
My tactical officer.
I literally bumped into him onenight on a fire base in
Northern I-Corps literallybumped into him coming around a
quarter of a bunker.
So these were mentors, but knewthat there was a good chance
that you, Cadet Schmedlaff, weregoing to be Second Lieutenant
(48:00):
Schmedlaff and you were going tobe in Vietnam as a platoon
leader, but working for thelatest guy.
Caution on.
And my, my master's degree isfrom Harvard and people have
told me I should add that to mylist of hostile areas I took out
(48:21):
of.
I don't want to find that, canyou get?
a refund, not not my politicsthere, but the uh, a civilian.
A civilian professor coming outof a prestigious university
(48:41):
likely has zero coming to WestPoint, has zero military
experience and does not have avested interest in Cadet
Schmidlaff being a thoroughlyprofessional officer.
Because they're up at West Pointand they're gonna serve 20
(49:03):
years or however long they'regonna be a professor teaching
medieval French literature,whatever they're teaching up
there.
And so what we're losing byhaving all of these civilian
professors, who probably don'thave the same concept of duty to
(49:25):
the country, duty to service,that are serving military
officers that.
So a part of what we're doingwith the duty on a country of
commitment is to take a veryhard look at dramatically
reducing the number of civilianprofessors, and at US one.
And I think that would be agreat step in the right
(49:48):
direction for many number ofreasons, and I'll end this with
we have I'm absolutely convincedbecause I'd seen some solid
evidence we have some professorsat West Point, three professors
who are not just new to me, butthey are working rather hard,
(50:08):
in my view, to undermine thatconcept of duty in their future
of the death.
So I think there are some thatrepresent a cancer of the
military academy and theydefinitely need to be fired.
Al Palmer (50:27):
Well, ron, doesn't that kind of bring us kind of
full circle.
Then back to leadership, andparticularly with places like
the academies.
And I remember when my wholefriend, robin Olds, was the
commandant of cadets there orthe superintendent, you know, he
brought in with him thatcredential of being a real
(50:48):
warrior and somebody who was notjust like anybody cut out of a
cookie cutter.
And maybe that's what we need,is we need some good examples,
as Bill says, back in the backin the academies, instead of
bringing in these guys from theEast Coast someplace who are,
I'm sure, marvelous, marvelousprofessors in their own right,
but you can find somebody toteach physics other places, but
(51:11):
you can't teach them how to leadwhen they get out into the
service.
Well guys, we've run through alot of territory here and I hate
to have to close off on this,but we're just about probably at
the point where we need to goout and find a happy hour.
But I want to thank all of youfor being with me today and
(51:33):
going through some of this.
This is just scratching thesurface, with each of our
organizations you know STARS,the Calvert Group, macarthur
Society all engaged in trying tofind solutions, not dwell on
problems.
But we need to find a way toget the war fighting ethos back
(51:53):
in to the military and keep itstrong.
Thanks for being here and I'llmention to anybody that wants to
see this podcast, as well asothers just go to starsus.
You can also find out moreabout the Calvert Group and
MacArthur Society there as well.
So to our viewers, thanks fortuning in and come back and see
(52:16):
us next week.
I can't wait for your specialscoming along next time around.
Thanks for watching us.
Good night.
Well, welcome America .
This is Alan Palmer, your hostfor STARRS and Stripes.
I'm a retired Navy commanderand I'm proud to be a part of an
organization that's wanting tomake our military strong again.
We're also intent on makingsure that we can educate people
on the necessary to do goodthings with our military in the
(00:34):
world.
Today we're going to do aspecial episode today about
wokeness and about things in themilitary that we think probably
can be corrected to keep thewarrior ethos strong and to keep
our people capable of defendingyou out there, the general
public.
So to do that, I've got threeguests today that each have a
(00:57):
very special part in what we'redoing here in STARS and related
organizations.
I'm happy to have with us againour chairman I'm sorry our
president and CEO, colonel RonScott.
He's also a doctor and we relyon him for information and
guidance on what we do here atSTARRS.
(01:18):
Ron is an Air Force Academygraduate.
He's been a fighter pilot, he'sbeen an OB-10 driver, he's also
flown C-130s and he's hadcombat commands in the Middle
East.
So we're happy to have Ron withus in the organization, but
even more so today, and we alsohave Bill Prince.
(01:40):
Bill Prince is on our board ofadvisors.
Bill is a West Point graduateand he's got a fascinating
career, having gone into theinfantry in the Army, served in
Vietnam, been a ranger, been inSpecial Forces and done things
that your average class Acitizen wouldn't even think of
doing in combat.
(02:01):
He then went into the CIA anddid some of the same kind of
things all across the world andgot a very special award from
the CIA for his heroism in doingit.
And I'm happy to say that Billis also involved in a group like
STARRS two, the MacArthurSociety, and that's a group of
(02:25):
cadets who graduated from WestPoint and picked up the mantle
of Douglas MacArthur and wantingto make sure that people knew
what duty, honor and country wasabout.
And, bill, it's great to haveyou with us here today, sir.
Also, the other side of the coinfor military service, Captain
Tom Burbridge.
Tom was a Naval Academygraduate, became a naval aviator
(02:49):
on Airedale and we're happy tohave another one of those in the
group here today Went to testpilot school, flew just about
everything that the Navy had 38kinds of aircraft with over
3,000 hours kinds of aircraftwith over 3,000 hours.
But if that wasn't enough, thenhe went into the reserves, but
also went to work for LockheedMartin for 32 years, holding key
(03:12):
management positions inLockheed Martin, including the
primary program developmentmanager and vice president, for
doing projects like the F-22Raptor and the latest F-35 Joint
Strike Fighter.
He's got more awards anddecorations and things on his
(03:33):
wall than I think I'd care tothink about.
And, tom, it's great, sir, tohave you with us here today too.
So what an all-grass group ofpeople to have at our roundtable
.
And I want to start that out forour audience by saying what
we're going to talk about todaycenters around why our citizens
serve our country, why we have avolunteer force and why it's so
(03:57):
important to keep it that way.
We have to be the shepherds andthe stewards to make sure our
country is guarded and safe fromharm.
To do that, we do rely on youngpeople to sign on to the service
and when they do, like all ofus here, we raise our hand, we
take an oath to defend thecountry against all enemies,
(04:20):
foreign and domestic, and tomake sure that we also honor the
Constitution and preserve that.
While we're doing that, at thesame time we're kind of writing
a blank check to the country sothat when we sign up, we're
going to do whatever isnecessary to make that happen,
and I don't think many of ushave thought too far about what
(04:41):
we get in return.
We know that we're going to bevalued for our service by our
people, but we don't always havea real good picture of where
we're going to go or what we'regoing to do.
But that's also the excitementand the joy, if you will.
The journey is knowing thatwe're going to be doing good
things, but not necessarilywhere we're going to end up, but
(05:02):
not necessarily where we'regoing to end up.
So with that thought, ron, whatare your thoughts on that?
How did that inspire you whenyou signed up to get into the
Air Force and go to the AirForce Academy?
How did that strike you at thetime?
Ron Scott (05:20):
Al, my journey was kind of unusual.
It's nothing that I would havepredicted or designed.
We were at the height of theVietnam War, and so in the
summer of 1969, I had to make achoice about being vulnerable
for the draft at the time orgoing to college and hoping for
deferment.
And so I didn't even know aboutthe service academies until
(05:44):
about a year before, and I wentahead and applied, knowing that
it was a full-ride scholarshipif you were selected and
appointed.
And so that was how I ended upat the Air Force Academy in the
summer of 1969.
And I have to tell you thatexperience was just discovery
for me, because now, all of asudden, I'm with and it was all
(06:08):
male in those days I am withfellow Americans who were so
excited about serving theircountry, even though we were at
war in Vietnam.
They wanted to make sure thatthey were prepared to be a
leader and effective inprotecting America in that
particular interest.
So for me it was trying to beworthy of my peers then and to
(06:32):
get through that program.
Initially I figured five yearsis worth payback for a great
education, and then I can presson to other things.
But it was as I mentioned.
It was a great discovery for meto learn about these just
superb fellow Americans thatwere willing to give their lives
(06:52):
in combat for something greaterthan themselves, and so I ended
up serving 30 years.
I mean it was I was a latecomer in terms of being
passionate about serving, butonce I was in it, there was no
way they were going to kick meout.
So that was my experience.
Al Palmer (07:13):
And did you think that the other folks that were
there, the other cadets thatwere there with you, shared that
all the way through?
Ron Scott (07:20):
Absolutely, I think and again trying to be worthy of
them.
I mean, they were pushing to,you know, be the fastest to jump
, the highest to get, you know,4.0 grade point average
academically.
And so you know I was runninghard to keep up with them and I
(07:40):
was able to cross the finishline then in 1973.
And I was able to cross thefinish line then in 1973.
Al Palmer (07:47):
So, tom, how did that work for you at the Naval
Academy?
You know similar academies butslightly different focus.
How did you feel about beingthere?
Did that experience show yousomething different than you
thought, what you were going toget when you went there?
Tom Burbage (08:04):
Actually, I went down a little different route.
I was about four years ahead ofRon.
At the time my father was acareer naval aviator.
I had been to sea with him as akid, you know, in his wardroom
for a week at sea, with theairplanes and the flight deck.
Most of my role models werenaval aviators.
At the time it seemed the onlynatural path for me was to be a
(08:27):
naval aviator and in my mind theonly way to do that was to go
to the Naval Academy.
My father was also an Academygraduate, so it was sort of in
my DNA and I went.
I fully knew what I was gettinginto Tough first summer and
then sort of the band ofbrothers forms and my closest
friends today are still myclassmates from the Naval
(08:50):
Academy.
So it's a lifelong commitmentand a lifelong experience, no
matter what path you take afteryour active duty.
I left active duty after about12 years and continued as a
reservist flying A-7s andretired with 25 years as a naval
officer.
And that 14-year overlap waswhile I was working in industry.
So I was around the militarythe whole time I was doing that
(09:12):
and around flyers, so it justworked out it was a great
adventure for me.
Al Palmer (09:18):
And certainly that helped you in the program part
of Lockheed in developingfighter aircraft and all too and
working with people who hadthat same kind of industrial
base.
Tom Burbage (09:31):
Right.
Yeah, I would only add that theleadership experience was very
transferable to industry and toleading high-performance teams
and probably is one of the mostbeneficial parts of young folks
doing a tour in the Navy or theservices, no matter how long it
is.
Al Palmer (09:47):
Yeah, it's a great experience.
Is it not Hard to duplicate anyplace else in the world?
Tom Burbage (09:53):
Correct yes, sir.
Al Palmer (09:56):
And so, bill, you had kind of a similar kind of a
route too.
You went in and did somearduous work in Vietnam, and
then came back out and then wentinto the CIA.
What an amazing journey thatone was.
But along the way you couldhave said that's it, I've had
enough, I'm out of here.
What kept you in?
Ron Scott (10:27):
I would like to go back just a little bit In this
concept of service and militaryservice and service of the
country.
My dad was in World War II,ended up as an acting battalion
commander it was ROTC, but endedthe war as an acting on the
Thai commander in Germany and mymom came from a big family and
(10:49):
she had four brothers.
All four brothers served inWorld War II.
So growing up I was essentiallysurrounded by people who had
served and what had a greatimpact on me and considering
(11:09):
that there are three pilots hereon this broadcast, I absolutely
need to mention that one of myoutcasts, who was my idol when I
was growing up my son is namedafter him was a Marine fighter
(11:30):
pilot who flew combat missionsin World War II, korea and
Vietnam.
He retired as a full countyhostess, having been
court-martialed as a major fortaking a woman of questioner to
reverse you across state lines.
Now he was okay.
(11:53):
Growing up, I have to tell youhe was larger than life, and but
all that to say that growing upas part of the baby boomer
generation and being reallysurrounded by people who had
(12:13):
gone to serve in World War IIhad a great impact on me, and so
when I told my dad that Iwanted to go into the Army and
(12:34):
he said well, you're gonna go inthe Army, you're probably
better off going in as anofficer.
And he said my experience inWorld War II was I had great
respect for those officers whohad graduated from West Point,
so why don't you go to WestPoint?
And so I did.
And then first I was there andVietnam was going on and I
(13:00):
thought, well, I'm going to bean infantry officer and I'm
going to be in Vietnam.
And so I volunteered forVietnam even before I graduated
and ended up with a great goodfortune of serving with most
Airborne Engineering Staff, ofcourse, in Vietnam.
Al Palmer (13:18):
Well.
So I think we'd all agree thatwe came from backgrounds which
kind of enabled us to get in andbe part of the military,
probably a little bit easier.
I can remember growing up on anAir Force base Langley Air
Force Base as a young guy andevery afternoon for colors, for
the ceremonies, we'd take theflag down, they'd be out there
(13:42):
in formation and they'd have acannon out there they'd shoot
off, make sure everybody knewthe flag was coming down and
then play the national anthem.
And that still exists today onmost military installations.
But you still get that feelingof being part of that even
growing up, and so some of thatstays in your DNA.
I guess, as you go through itWell on to a little different
(14:04):
view of this.
So military service, being whatit is, is almost an obligation,
but unspoken in our society.
We still have to go out andconvince people to join, and
we've done that in a number ofways.
We used to rely on militias tosupply the forces we needed to
defend the country in the earlydays.
(14:25):
That continued for a long timeuntil we got into world wars.
We had to conscript people also, in addition to having
volunteer forces, but then, whenwe became an all-volunteer
force after Vietnam.
Then we started to rely ongetting people to be able to
join and keeping them and makingsure that the forces could
(14:46):
still do the job that theyneeded to do.
That turns out to have been kindof a tough call, because in
recent years it seems like maybethat's slipping a little bit
and we're maybe not as able tohold on to people or to recruit
them as much as we used to.
Those numbers exist, but beyondthe numbers there's still the
(15:07):
issue of hearts and minds, Ithink of young people wanting to
go serve their country, wantingto do extraordinary things and
being overjoyed to do it.
How do we get that back intothe military?
Do you think Anybody want totake a shot at that one?
Tom Burbage (15:28):
I'll open up if you want.
I think there's a lot offactors that lead into the
situation we have today, Alan,and not the least of which is
the way kids are brought up,whether it's the family
situation, whether it's the K-12teaching situation.
I mean, if you talk about thecannon, at sunset, when you
(15:49):
lower the flag, it's very rareyou see an American flag even in
a classroom these days, letalone a Pledge of Allegiance,
which we said every day beforeclass started.
So the sense of patriotismthat's sort of baked into kids
of our generation is missing inmany ways, and I think what you
saw during the COVID time, whenparents were actually able to
(16:11):
look over their child's shoulderand see what they were being
taught, created a bit of arebellion against that whole
environment.
So it starts there and then itgets into.
How do you train someone tocome out of that environment and
become ready to go into fouryears later into a leadership
situation as a young leader,perhaps going to even going into
(16:32):
combat?
That's the transition that theservice academies have to make,
and that's gotten a lot tougherthese days.
Al Palmer (16:39):
Well, it's exactly right, as Ron was saying earlier
, you're faced with that whenyou get in.
It's exactly right, as Ron wassaying earlier, you're faced
with that when you get in and,for maybe the first time, you
realize how serious that is inleadership development and
integrity and what your rolewill be later as being a leader
and officer.
Yeah, that's a critical item.
Bill Prince (17:05):
Bill, what's your thought on that?
I ended up after about fouryears doing this with 11
deployments between Iraq andAfghanistan, and so I saw
firsthand in both of those whatthese young men and women were
(17:28):
doing and accomplishing, andunder very, very difficult
circumstances.
But I have to say that I feelstrongly that we are alienating
the most productive demographic,the young men and women who
(17:54):
have traditionally been in theforefront of offering their
service to our nation and defendour nation, of offering a
service to our nation to defendour nation.
We are alienating, I think, agreat many of those young men
and women and I'movergeneralizing here.
(18:15):
I recognize that, but I rememberI was not only in the
recruiting command myself and Ihad friends who were assigned to
Army Recruiting.
If you were assigned in thesoutheastern part of the United
States, you were golden, youwere going to meet your quotas
(18:36):
and they had wonderfulaccretions to your quotas.
If you were assigned as an ArmyRecruiter in some place like
Boston, then you were probablynot going to meet your quotas
with just demographics.
And I fear now that we arealienating those young men and
(18:57):
women, primarily coming out ofstrong families with military
traditions, especially from theSoutheast United States, and
instead we have been, especiallyover the last four years,
probably trying to appeal to ademographic in the Northeast and
(19:21):
the Pacific Coast which hasnever really been particularly
supportive of military service,and I think we are paying a
heavy price for that.
I just saw some statistics Ididn't mention them all ago that
my dad served in World War IIand all four of my uncles served
(19:43):
in World War II, and I saw somestatistics that parents now
with military experience are notrecommending that their kids
serve in the military.
That's tragic in my view.
Al Palmer (20:00):
Yes, indeed.
Well, and that leads just tothe question why is that
happening?
Why is it that people are beingalienated?
What's going on?
Is there something that'schanged in the last couple of
years?
Is it people just not seeingthe value, or somebody actually
(20:22):
talking to them and teachingthem that?
Is that an issue?
Ron Scott (20:27):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's the reason why STARRSformed.
We discovered that there's anideology that is infiltrating
our institutions, and for us itwas at the Air Force Academy.
So it was a little disturbing,disappointing, to see the Air
Force Academy football coacheschant Black Lives Matter seven
(20:47):
times and mention examples ofracial discrimination, racial
injustice, that were justpatently false.
If you looked at the data, wedon't have Jim Crow laws anymore
.
Mass incarcerations are easilyexplained.
Redlining used to exist inAmerica in the early 1900s, but
we stopped doing that.
(21:08):
But it's this critical racetheory and diversity, equity and
inclusion which is a praxismethod of instituting,
instilling this critical racetheory ideology, where you have
oppressor and oppressed groups.
And I have to tell you, al, ifyou look at pictures of World
(21:29):
War II cemeteries, you're goingto see from front to back, side
to side, the Judeo-Christiansymbols, mostly Christian
occasional stars of David.
The America that went to waragainst tyranny in the 1940s was
(21:49):
a Judeo-Christian groundednation, and so they had a lot to
fight for Life after death,being accountable in terms of
how we live our lives now, thechoices we make to defeat evil,
which was manifested in fascismand then later in the Cold War,
(22:10):
communism.
You know these were ideologiesthat denied people their
freedoms to worship, to speak,and so we are seeing a lot of
evidence now that that form oftyranny is creeping into our
society.
Censorship, the COVID-19vaccination that was
(22:33):
experimental, forced upon ourmilitary members over 8,000,
forced out because they chosenot to take the vaccine that
they were legally entitled notto take and so we're seeing a
lot more now being publishedthat what happened in America
during that pandemic and theCOVID-19 vaccination were
(22:55):
essentially forms of tyranny.
And so that's what we're upagainst now, and I think members
that have served in ourmilitary, who came in for the
purpose of fighting tyranny, isone force to be reckoned with,
and we've got to get more of ourmilitary folks and veterans on
board speaking out against thesedevelopments in our country.
Al Palmer (23:19):
Well, and the idea of alienating people.
I mean that's not a good thingto do.
If you're talking aboutvolunteers, you know you ask
people to give of their time,their effort and, in the
military, signing a check thatmay include their lives you know
you can't afford to becontinually alienating them.
(23:39):
They're going to leave, and Ithink that's some of what we're
seeing, don't you think so, tom?
Tom Burbage (23:44):
I think there's two parts to your answer there, al.
I think the first one is yes,you don't want to alienate
viable bodies of candidates thatcould come in and strengthen
the military.
The second piece is once you'rein a military unit, there's
nothing more valuable than unityas opposed to division.
And when you're raised in aworld of division and oppressors
(24:06):
and oppressed, as Ron said, youhave that filter into the
military leadership challenge ofhow do you now bring that back
into one unified command, themilitary?
They wear a uniform and it'sbecause they're uniform, they
have constant.
It's one unified body.
(24:27):
It's not a bunch of differentgroups that are you know either
oppressed with each other orfeel like they're oppressors.
You have to build that unityback in.
So it's a double-edged sword.
It sort of amplifies itself asit goes.
Al Palmer (24:41):
So there's always, of course, a lot of talk in the
civilian outside world aboutpeople getting together and
solving their differences, andcan't we all just get along?
And everybody ought to be ableto have a shot at doing
something.
But that doesn't work in themilitary, does it?
Because we're differentresponsibilities that are much
(25:03):
better not better, but moreresourceful in terms of having
to have people be in parts ofteams that perform so that lives
are saved and that people cando important work to save the
country.
You can't just take anybody andput them into a job and hope
that you can train them and makethem work.
(25:25):
We have to filter that out kindof in advance, which means that
the military ends up being alittle bit exclusive, not
inclusive, because we're wantingto take people who have
specific skill sets, the rightattitude, the right physical
characteristics that can do thework.
So we can't just take anybodyphysical characteristics that
(25:50):
can do the work.
So we can't just take anybody.
And you guys want to comment onthat one, because I know we
catch a little flack sometimesin the public for not being able
to say we're just going to takeanybody and we'll train them
and everybody can do this work.
That's not always the case andwhen it's happened in the
military, sometimes we try toturn that around and say, all
right, to make that better,we'll just move the goalposts,
(26:13):
we'll take standards away, we'llmake qualifications different
so that we can make everybodyacceptable, and that, in my mind
, is a recipe for disaster.
Ron Scott (26:23):
It's a huge disaster.
I'll tell you.
We see pictures now of peoplein uniform.
They're grossly out of weight,they're wearing tattoos now
they've got beards and those arethe role models now.
And I have to tell you, I'm anAir Force guy but, one of my
all-time favorite movies is TopGun and that was such a
(26:47):
motivational movie and I'veheard that recruiting went up
big time after that movie.
Al Palmer (26:55):
Oh well, it did, and one of the podcasts that we've
done was with a gent, DaveBaranek, who was an instructor
at Top Gun and did the flying inTop Gun, and he said exactly
the same thing.
They had people lining up forhalf a mile trying to get
enlisted and as officercandidates.
(27:16):
After the movie came out, itwas a huge hit and a big spike
occurred in recruiting, not justfor the Navy but for all the
services recruiting not just forthe Navy but for all the
services.
Yeah, so as I said, as I said, Ithink, earlier in, our
discussion, you know where?
Ron Scott (27:35):
where is John Wayne and Tom Cruise?
when you really need them, or orRussell Crowe you know, and
we'd pick them up at the airport, we'd bring them home, take
them to dinner and before I tuckthem into bed bed I say I'm
going to show a clip from amovie and then an entire movie,
and that's to get you motivatedfor tomorrow when I drop you off
at tulu hall.
And you start to get sworn in.
(27:56):
So the clip was from gladiatorwith russell crowe, and the
scene was when they were comingup out of the coliseum and
russell crowe was telling theseguys they're standing there with
their spears, whatever he goes.
Hey, has anybody been in themilitary, in the army?
And a couple of them said, yeah, well, the only way we're going
to survive is if we sticktogether.
(28:16):
We have to do this as a team.
And he kept emphasizing that.
And then once they kind ofdefeated all the bad guys and he
jumps on that white stallion,he's got that spear and he's
jumping around like that.
That was incrediblymotivational because he was
there to command, he was thereto fight for what was right.
And so then, after we showedthat, I said so, are you
(28:38):
motivated enough?
Okay, now I'm going to bring inTop Gun.
Good night, see you guys in themorning.
Al Palmer (28:44):
Well, and that brings us right back to okay.
So did Russell want to justtake anybody out of the crowd
and have them out there fightingthe lions?
No, you need to have the rightkind of skill sets and the right
kind of people.
Well, so you know, and thatagain is something that we can
do better at right away, youknow, and there's all kinds of
(29:04):
examples and we have them in ourgroups of calvert society,
macarthur and stars there arepeople who have done amazing
things and and doing exactlythat kind of work and performing
that way, whether it's in waror peace, and we need to start
putting examples out so youngpeople can see that, say, say, I
(29:25):
like to be like that.
Hey, that guy sounds like he'spretty cool and you're right,
that's the Tom Cruise approachat a Top Gun.
So let me ask you, but let meask you this so, okay, if you're
leadership in the Pentagon andyou look around and you say
recruiting is down, retentionkind of sucks, and I'm having
(29:47):
trouble keeping the real peoplethat we need here today, how are
we going to solve that problem?
And the answer in the pastusually has been pay them more
money.
You know, that's what they need.
They're going to get out and goout in the civilian world, so
just pay them more, give thembonuses and they'll stick around
.
That doesn't always work, doesit guys?
(30:10):
I don't think any of us actuallyGo ahead Bill.
Bill Prince (30:16):
Al.
I saw it just within the lastcouple of weeks again.
It was a quote from a retiredSergeant Major of the Army whose
, whose name escaped me now,kind of Robertson may do
something like that.
Anyway, quote from him.
This is a senior enlistednon-commissioned officer in the
(30:39):
United States Army.
The quote was the diversity isour great strength and I think,
in my conservative opinion,that's a terrible message for
senior leadership to bepromoting.
First of all, there'sabsolutely no empirical evidence
to support that.
And to follow on with what youand the others have said,
(31:04):
diversity is not our greatestthing.
Uh, the teamwork, uh the unitbeing, uh in a chain of command
and taking responsibility.
And if we're pushing this thingthat we're dividing people, uh,
dividing them by claimedidentities, uh were, were
(31:28):
destroying the, the fabric uponwhich, uh, we rely.
And, having been in severaldifferent hostile environments
over 40 years of service, um, noone, no one ever worried about
pronouns in any of the hospitalareas in which I still live.
(31:53):
Yet we have senior leadershipin the military concerned about
white rage and appropriatehormones.
I mean, this is this soundslike a harsh word, but it's a
(32:16):
cancer.
I believe that it's eating outthe fabric of our military and
we will pay in blood for thesesocial experiments for these
social experiments.
Al Palmer (32:38):
Well.
And the military?
This is not new, right?
Military has been used as atest bed for social science in
the past.
You know we've tried thosethings and found that they don't
work very well.
And yet here we are again.
It seems wanting to do thatwith the DEI business.
We already know the answer, Ithink, to the question.
The question is whether we'rewilling to do something about it
.
Tom Burbage (32:55):
Perhaps I think it gets down to promote Incentives
are a big deal If you thinkabout the way industry tends to
be walking back a lot of theircommitments.
It's financially driven andthey're seeing the consumption
of resources without the payback.
If you look at the military,it's promotion incentives.
(33:18):
We have promotions now tied tosupporting policies that promote
the kind of things we'retalking about.
So until we can get intochanging incentives, people will
respond to what's inspected,not what's expected.
As soon as we can get intochallenging policies and getting
the right incentives in placein the right places, it's not
(33:40):
gonna change much.
It's also spurred, brought on anindustry.
So you now have a wholeindustry surrounding DEI, which
today is estimated at about $15billion.
Well, with that many peopleinvolved in that industry to
promote these concepts ascontractors, hiring into both
the military and the industry,it's hard to stamp it out.
(34:01):
So it's got to come from thetop down.
It's too entrenched right now,I think, to have it done from
the bottom up.
So that's a concern.
I think we all three of us inour organizations all share a
vision that says we've got tosomehow increase awareness that
these kind of things need to bein the hearts and minds of all
Americans if you want an Americalike we do like we do.
Al Palmer (34:32):
So, ron, here's a thought, too, that Tom's comment
just brought up.
You've got people who haveinfluence because of their
seniority where they happen tobe in the DOD, inside the
five-sided puzzle palace, andthey're pushing the DEI stuff,
but they're folks that, for themost part, have not been in the
military before, not evenprobably in association with
anybody in the military, and yetthey're the ones that are
(34:53):
writing the rules, if you will,for what's going to happen.
And worse, as you guys knowfrom the times that you were in
the academies, there's a largerpercentage of the professors,
instructors, who are now comingfrom private universities, who
have not been in the military.
So my thought on that is howcan you teach somebody about the
(35:15):
finer, granular things that gowith leadership and integrity
and responsibility if you've notdone it yourself?
Ron Scott (35:25):
That's a huge problem .
It's kind of like themilitary-industrial complex
which needs to be cleaned up.
But when you look at thePentagon and you look at all of
the SESs and politicalappointees, you know they're
kind of an anchor there.
(35:46):
They carry out their agendasand if generals and admirals
agree, great.
If they don't, they just kindof write out their time until
they move on and they keepworking their agenda.
That needs to be fixed becauseeven though the
military-civilian relationshipis very important, the military
serves the civilian power.
It doesn't have to be where,even at the military level, that
(36:10):
they're constrained andinfluenced and managed by a
larger civilian force.
And so I'm not sure how we'regoing to fix that.
That fix is going to come fromCongress in terms of the laws
that manage the civil serviceand political appointees and
that sort of thing.
But Congress can fix it, theycan find out, and I'm thinking
(36:33):
the equivalent of a UCMJ forcivilians.
Why should civilians get awaywith criminal activity because
they're a civil servant, orinsubordination or mutinous
behavior, that sort of thing, orinsubordination or mutinous
behavior, that sort of thing.
And so that sounds pretty brash, pretty radical.
But I think we need to lookinto how we hold the civilian
(36:55):
element within the Pentagonaccountable.
Al Palmer (36:59):
Yeah Well, you know, the other part of that is the
amount of accountability, evenon the military side, has been
kind of sparse lately, and Ithink we need to look at that a
little bit harder too.
I mean, it's true that in a bigorganization, large
bureaucracies, a lot of peoplemake mistakes, and then who do
(37:21):
you hold responsible for that?
But if nobody's heldresponsible, then that gets back
down to the issue we weretalking about earlier.
How does the new airmen whojust signed up to go into the
Air Force have confidence thatthey're going to be treated well
or that their environment isgoing to be right, if the
leadership can't be heldaccountable or they can't do the
(37:42):
things that need to be done?
Ron Scott (37:50):
That's a challenge.
You know, when Matt Lohmeyerwas working his concerns up the
chain of command, he wasbasically told by all of his
superiors that their hands weretied.
You know this is above me,which begs the question.
(38:12):
That's an easy answer my handsare tied, but you didn't answer.
The real question is what I'mdescribing to you wrong or not?
Is it moral or immoral?
And if they choose not toanswer that question and they're
doing it because they want topreserve their position or their
rank, that gets into afundamental philosophical
question about for whom do youserve and when?
(38:33):
You swore to support and defendthat Constitution and bearing
true faith and allegiance to it.
That doesn't mean you take apass and say my hands are tied.
I know that's awfullyphilosophical and it's hard to
get people to recognize that.
That's the choice they'remaking and they can get away
with it, but at some pointthey'll be held accountable for
(38:56):
it.
And this oath really means alot and I really think in the
commissioning programs asufficient amount of time should
be spent describing what thatoath says.
You know, for instance,supporting and defending the
constitution.
It doesn't say America, itdoesn't say the department of
defense, uh, and enemies,foreign and domestic.
(39:20):
And in an earlier conversationwith tom you know he says for
the military people, you know,most of our focus on the foreign
element represent about 5% ofour population and if you add
the veterans that have servedand whatever, that might add
another 4%.
So 9% have been focused on thatpart of the oath that focuses
(39:44):
on the foreign threat.
But how about the domestic?
As Tom pointed out, 95% of oursociety should be focused on the
domestic threat and what we'relooking at today with the
ideological infiltration of ourinstitutions, with the CRT DEI
stuff, that's 100%.
I mean it affects those thatserve in the military, the 5%,
(40:07):
but also the other 95% in termsof how we are going to prosper
as a nation.
But the other part, bear truefaith and allegiance to the same
.
You know, we have to betruthful and honest and we can't
just say, okay, well, I cantake a pass on this, because it
would be too inconvenient to doanything else, and I take this
(40:31):
obligation freely.
What Nobody's forcing me to dothis, or any mental reservation,
because you're a volunteer.
This is the authenticity partyou have to be true to yourself
and that I will well andfaithfully discharge the duties.
The duties, wow.
Here's this, this conceptcalled a duty, a moral
(40:51):
obligation of the office uponwhich I'm about to enter, and we
close it off.
We used to do this, so help me,god.
I mean, that's the ultimate uhpower that we're accountable to.
But, uh, you, you know thissense of duty, wow.
And for officers, notice,there's no obey word in there,
(41:16):
like in the enlisted oath, wherethey obeyed the orders of the
president and the officersappointed over them, and the
expectation is that those ordersthat they're being given are
moral, ethical and legal.
And that COVID-19 vaccinationissue really destroyed and cut
(41:37):
into the trust that we normallyhad among our military members.
Al Palmer (41:44):
We lost, that's where alienation?
Ron Scott (41:45):
comes in right, exactly so.
There's a lot of power in theseoaths and what they say, what
they imply and what they'reexplicit about, and so I think
we need to get back tounderstanding this more clearly
and have the courage to do whatit says and means.
Al Palmer (42:09):
And our viewers who are watching this will note that
there's no expiration date onthat oath Exactly.
Tom Burbage (42:18):
I am still bound by that oath.
One of the reasons why we'reall in this endgame that we're
playing right now is that noneof our oaths have expired.
Al Palmer (42:28):
So we are still concerned.
Tom Burbage (42:31):
There's one other point that I'd like to make and
that's the sense of agenerational responsibility.
I brought this up earlier.
Today.
We enjoy the freedoms we haveand live in the America we live
in because our parents andgrandparents are willing to take
generational responsibility forthose of us who are coming
behind, and it's too rare thesedays that that's being done by
(42:53):
our generation.
I think we're starting to lookintrospectively now and say, how
did this happen?
Almost like it was an overnightsensation, but as we all know,
overnight sensations take yearsin the making.
How do we get to this situation?
Why are we suddenly confrontedas a nation with domestic
enemies?
You know we're the strongestnation in the world against
foreign enemies.
It's a domestic enemy, is hardto define, and it's hard to
(43:15):
define is the American patriot.
You know the military thatshould be more focused on
defending against the domesticenemy than the rest of you know,
than just the military.
So we sort of operate in a smallcircle and if there is some way
to increase awareness acrossthe general population,
particularly the votingpopulation, that this is an
(43:38):
extremely critical time for thiscountry and there is a domestic
enemy at work and it takes inmany shapes and many forms and
it permeates much of our society, not the least of which is the
border situation, which isdistorting all kinds of things.
You know.
At the bottom line, it canbankrupt all of our social
systems and it's starting to dothat in some of the cities that
(44:01):
we read about.
It affects gerrymandering, itaffects voting districts and it
opens the door for potentialhigher levels of fraud in voting
.
Those are fundamental to aconstitutional republic, for
potential higher levels of fraudin voting.
Those are fundamental to aconstitutional republic.
A constitutional republicdoesn't have too many things
that it has to have One.
It has to have equal justiceunder the law, it has to have
(44:24):
free and fair elections, it hasto have three equal branches of
government, and those guardrailsaround those three equal
branches are also getting veryfuzzy, you know how can you
challenge the Supreme Court?
if you're in the administrationgroup, you know.
It's just all these things aresort of happening around us and
that in its summary, in my view,is the domestic enemy doesn't
(44:45):
wear a uniform.
Al Palmer (44:48):
Well, and the domestic part of that is maybe
countered by being able to talkabout civics and history and
traditions.
But that gets us back to thisother thing that's kind of
floating around.
You know, duty, honor andcountry.
You know Douglas MacArthur wasfamous for saying that in the
60s when he was speaking to thecadets at West Point.
(45:11):
It couldn't be more true today.
But that encapsulated thatunspoken part of the citizen's
obligation to be able to helpwith the country.
And I think you're right, tom,that needs to come back into not
just the military but intosociety as well.
Bill Prince (45:29):
And we're pushing that, I know, and Bill, you can
talk about that with MacArthurSociety pushing that I know and,
Bill, you can talk about thatwith MacArthur Society, One of
the programs that we have withinthe MacArthur Society.
One of the things that we'revery concerned about and I think
(45:50):
it applies to all the serviceacademies is the number of the
increased number of civilianprofessors at West Point.
Circling back to this conceptof duty and preparing, in our
(46:10):
case, service academy graduateswith a concept of duty, I felt
when I was a cadet that webenefited greatly from having
serving military officers as ourprofessors and instructors.
(46:32):
I think in my time we had got4% of the instructors 4%, I
think, were with civilians andthose were only in areas where
we really couldn't get militaryofficers to do that.
Teaching that's one language isone that I remember.
(46:54):
We're now up to, I think, about30% civilian instructors.
And here's a problem, severalproblems with that One serving
officers, by definition, notjust to teach you thermodynamics
(47:15):
, but they're mentors and theirmentors were the best of
interest in you graduating andperhaps serving under them.
I went almost right to Vietnamand I ran into no less than six
former instructors from WestPoint in Vietnam.
(47:37):
My tactical officer.
I literally bumped into him onenight on a fire base in
Northern I-Corps literallybumped into him coming around a
quarter of a bunker.
So these were mentors, but knewthat there was a good chance
that you, Cadet Schmedlaff, weregoing to be Second Lieutenant
(48:00):
Schmedlaff and you were going tobe in Vietnam as a platoon
leader, but working for thelatest guy.
Caution on.
And my, my master's degree isfrom Harvard and people have
told me I should add that to mylist of hostile areas I took out
(48:21):
of.
I don't want to find that, canyou get?
a refund, not not my politicsthere, but the uh, a civilian.
A civilian professor coming outof a prestigious university
(48:41):
likely has zero coming to WestPoint, has zero military
experience and does not have avested interest in Cadet
Schmidlaff being a thoroughlyprofessional officer.
Because they're up at West Pointand they're gonna serve 20
(49:03):
years or however long they'regonna be a professor teaching
medieval French literature,whatever they're teaching up
there.
And so what we're losing byhaving all of these civilian
professors, who probably don'thave the same concept of duty to
(49:25):
the country, duty to service,that are serving military
officers that.
So a part of what we're doingwith the duty on a country of
commitment is to take a veryhard look at dramatically
reducing the number of civilianprofessors, and at US one.
And I think that would be agreat step in the right
(49:48):
direction for many number ofreasons, and I'll end this with
we have I'm absolutely convincedbecause I'd seen some solid
evidence we have some professorsat West Point, three professors
who are not just new to me, butthey are working rather hard,
(50:08):
in my view, to undermine thatconcept of duty in their future
of the death.
So I think there are some thatrepresent a cancer of the
military academy and theydefinitely need to be fired.
Al Palmer (50:27):
Well, ron, doesn't that kind of bring us kind of
full circle.
Then back to leadership, andparticularly with places like
the academies.
And I remember when my wholefriend, robin Olds, was the
commandant of cadets there orthe superintendent, you know, he
brought in with him thatcredential of being a real
(50:48):
warrior and somebody who was notjust like anybody cut out of a
cookie cutter.
And maybe that's what we need,is we need some good examples,
as Bill says, back in the backin the academies, instead of
bringing in these guys from theEast Coast someplace who are,
I'm sure, marvelous, marvelousprofessors in their own right,
but you can find somebody toteach physics other places, but
(51:11):
you can't teach them how to leadwhen they get out into the
service.
Well guys, we've run through alot of territory here and I hate
to have to close off on this,but we're just about probably at
the point where we need to goout and find a happy hour.
But I want to thank all of youfor being with me today and
(51:33):
going through some of this.
This is just scratching thesurface, with each of our
organizations you know STARS,the Calvert Group, macarthur
Society all engaged in trying tofind solutions, not dwell on
problems.
But we need to find a way toget the war fighting ethos back
(51:53):
in to the military and keep itstrong.
Thanks for being here and I'llmention to anybody that wants to
see this podcast, as well asothers just go to starsus.
You can also find out moreabout the Calvert Group and
MacArthur Society there as well.
So to our viewers, thanks fortuning in and come back and see
(52:16):
us next week.
I can't wait for your specialscoming along next time around.
Thanks for watching us.
Good night.
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