September 20, 2024 • 49 mins
What makes a military leader truly exceptional? Brigadier General Robert F. Titus, known as "Earthquake," exemplifies the qualities of a remarkable military warfighting career, and in this episode of STARRS & Stripes, we pay tribute to his remarkable legacy. Host CDR Al Palmer, USN ret, who served under Gen. Titus, talks with Bill Scott, retired editor at Aviation Week and Space Technology and author of the book "Earthquake" about Gen. Titus, as well as Lieutenant General Tom McInerney, USAF ret, a distinguished combat pilot and senior Air Force leader who served with Gen. Titus.
We cover General Titus's journey from an 18-year-old Army paratrooper to becoming a celebrated Air Force fighter pilot. We'll explore his 101 missions in the Korean War and his critical role in testing and developing iconic fighter jets like the F-104, F-5, and F-4.
Throughout the episode, Bill, Tom and Al share first-hand accounts and rich narratives about pivotal moments in General Titus's career, including his involvement in the selection of the F-15 and his heroic actions during the Vietnam War. These stories highlight the themes of leadership, accountability, and the values that have shaped the armed forces. Throughout there is a deeper appreciation of the rigorous standards and meritocratic principles that define military success.
Delving into contemporary challenges facing the military, our discussion addresses the impact of diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives, and the ideological shifts within the armed forces. Hear our guests' reflections on how these changes affect military readiness and cohesion, and why strong leadership and adherence to core values are crucial in navigating these transitions. This episode is a compelling listen for anyone passionate about military history, aviation, and the evolving landscape of military practices and policies.
Find Bill Scott's book, "Earthquake: Brigadier General Robert F. Titus" on Amazon https://a.co/d/11deD2y and other sellers. Description:
American fighter pilot and test pilot Brigadier General Robert F. "Earthquake" Titus logged more than 550 combat missions in the Korean and Vietnam wars; flight tested all Century Series fighters; flew the first nonstop trans-Polar flight in an F-100 Super Sabre; shot down three enemy MiG-21s and brought the F-15 Eagle air superiority fighter to life. Read his incredible stories in his own words, as told to author Bill Scott, who sat down with the legend for multiple interviews to learn how it really was.
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For more information about STARRS, go to our website: https://starrs.us which works to eliminate the divisive Marxist-based CRT/DEI/Woke agenda in the Department of Defense and to promote the return to a warfighter ethos of meritocracy, lethality, readiness, accountability, standards and excellence in the military.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
CDR Al Palmer, USN ret (00:11):
Well, hello America.
This is Commander Al Palmer,United States Navy Retired, and
I'm your host for SStars andStripes.
Pleasure having you back withus today as we examine some of
the issues that are facing ourarmed forces today and what we
can do to find ways to keep ourforces strong, keep meritocracy
(00:34):
at the top of our list of thingswe need to have for our
warfighters and concentrate onsolid leadership and
accountability to keep ourforces able to function.
So to do that today, I'm proudto say on this Constitution Day,
by the way that we're happy tohave two really esteemed guests
(00:54):
with us.
The first is Bill Scott, who'san author.
He's been very instrumental inbeing an author of over 2,500
articles that have appeared inthe magazines, most notably the
one that he worked for for 22years, which was Aviation Week
and Space Technology, One of myfavorites when I was a young
(01:18):
aviator.
We couldn't wait for it to comeout to find what was really
happening in the aircraft thatwe were flying.
And, Bill, it's a greatpleasure, sir, to have you with
us today.
AnGeneral Tom McInerney.
He was a great fighter pilot.
He's a leader across allaspects of leadership in the Air
(01:38):
Force and he's got anillustrious career.
And so, tom sir, it's great tohave you with us here today too.
But I will tell you, before weeven get on to any of this, we
all share one thing very much incommon.
We all worked with or servedunder General Brigadier General
(01:58):
Robert F Titus, knownaffectionately by the folks he
flew with as Earthquake, and Isuspect you're probably
wondering where that name comesfrom.
Well, probably because GeneralTitus, whoever he talked to,
whoever he worked with, heusually ended up shaking up in
some way.
Either it was positive orsometimes a little negative.
(02:20):
But what I loved about servingwith him was he always demanded
that we did the best we couldand he rewarded us for it when
we did it.
When he did it, he'd kick us inthe rear end a little bit.
So we're here to talk aboutthat today in Bill's book called
Earthquake.
And so with that, bill, I'mgoing to turn it over to you to
(02:42):
lead us into this discussionabout one of America's great
fighter pilots and heroes, BobTitus.
Bill Scott (02:50):
Thank you, al.
I was sort of drafted about ayear ago to capture Bob Titus's
story and it was an honor to doso, believe me, because he did
have quite an illustrious career.
32 years he served in uniformand he started in the Army of
(03:12):
all things and retired from theAir Force 32 years later.
But on his 18th birthday hejoined the Army, became a
paratrooper, got his wings andhe was ready to jump into Japan
when World War II ended.
Well, the army didn't needquite as many people at that
point.
(03:32):
So he and many others musteredout and he went back to school
at Virginia Tech.
So he was there for about twoyears and in the spring of 1948,
he was walking across campusand there was an Air Force
recruiter who had a table set upand this guy said hey, you can
(03:52):
go fly airplanes.
So he decided that was going tobe a lot more attractive career
move than being a miningengineer.
So he left Virginia Tech,joined the new Air Force there
and went to pilot training.
He really wanted to fly at thattime P-51 Mustangs.
(04:13):
But when he got through pilottraining did well there they
said he was too tall and if youwere too tall to fly fighters,
you had to go to bombers, so hedid.
He was checked out in the B-25Mitchell but eventually wrangled
his way into the then calledF-51 Mustang and about the time
(04:36):
the Korean War broke out he hadenough time.
He was sent right over thereand became a fighter pilot
flying missions in the P-51.
And he flew 101 missions in theKorean War both in the F-51 and
the F-86 jet.
(04:56):
And at one point he did getshot down and he had to bail out
of that F-51 at a very lowaltitude.
Thankfully he had thatparachute, training didn't get
hurt.
Hit the ground in no man's landbetween the two warring forces
here.
Well, as soon as he hit theground he sees, in his words,
(05:20):
guys in quilted pajamas comingat him and those guys had
semi-automatic weapons or fullyautomatic.
He had a little pea shooterrevolver.
He jumped into a crater thereand said, oh, this is not going
to work out well.
Then he hears an American voicesay keep your head down and
crawl this way.
He was close to a Marine bunker.
(05:43):
So he did exactly that.
The Marines chased off the badguy and he lived to fight
another day.
So if we fast forward, after heleft Korea he was assigned to a
unit ferrying jets, f-86s andF-84s across the North Atlantic
(06:05):
to NATO bases in Europe, and itwasn't trivial in those days.
They lost enough pilots and itwas considered a hazardous
enough mission that after 10 ofthose crossings the pilots were
given an air medal.
Well, after that he wasassigned to Edwards Air Force
(06:35):
Base, went through Air Forcetest pilot school there and then
graduated the class 54B andthen moved down the street and
joined the cadre of you know,soon to be legendary test pilots
that brought the Century Seriesfighters online and he flight
tested every single one of themF-100, the F-102 Delta Dart or
(06:59):
Delta Dagger, the F-104Starfighter, f-105 Thunder Chief
and and F-106 Delta Dart, plusa host of other ones.
But one of his most unique testprograms was called the F-100
Zero Launch System.
And here they put a fighterlike you see there the F-100, on
(07:20):
a rail, mounted on a trailer,on a rail, mounted on a trailer,
and they would tip this thingup about 20 degrees and then
they'd put a 130,000-poundrocket booster.
They'd mount it right there onthe center line and, in Bob's
(07:48):
terms, you would crawl into thecockpit, crank it up, go to
afterburnerer, pull a switch.
It was on the front edge of thethrottle and off you go.
In his words he said, youaccelerate from zero to 275
miles per hour in four secondsand the rocket booster falls off
where it was supposed to be.
And the whole concept at thetime was being able to disperse
American fighters around thecountry, launch them from about
(08:08):
anywhere.
The program really didn't goanywhere for a number of good
logistical reasons.
Well, after that program ended,bob was tasked with finding a
mission for a couple of two-seatF-100s and he came up with what
they call Operation JuliusCaesar and that was to
demonstrate that fighters couldbe flown non-stop or the North
(08:32):
Pole.
So he, with Brigadier GeneralCharles Blair and two backseat
pilots, flew a couple oftwo-seat F-100s from England to
Alaska.
Nine hours, three in-flightrefuelings, and that was where
he picked up yet anotherdistinguished flying cross.
(08:56):
Then the Air Force sent him tothe University of Chicago to get
a master's in businessadministration degree and he
subsequently flew F-105 ThunderChief fighters or thuds in
Europe.
That was a tactical nuclearmission.
They were setting alert with asmall nuke strapped to their 105
(09:20):
.
He came back to the States, wasassigned to Air Force Tactical
Air Command and General GordonGraham at the time gave him the
task to formulate the generaloperational requirement for what
became the FX program and thatevolved into the F-15 Eagle air
(09:42):
superiority fighter, into theF-15 Eagle air superiority
fighter and to Al's point duringthat period Gordy Graham yelled
across the hallway one timesend earthquake over here.
And that spontaneous referencestuck.
That became Bob Titus's callsign.
He never did like it much butit was definitely appropriate
(10:04):
for a guy that anybody that knewthat deep voice brash officer.
So he can continue to advancerapidly through ranks and
commanded various units andeventually when the Vietnam War
started he headed up the 10thFighter Commando Squadron at Ben
Hoa in Vietnam.
They were called the ScotiTigers.
(10:26):
They flew the F-5 FreedomFighter before those airplanes
were turned over to the SouthVietnamese.
He flew 350 air combat missionsin that airplane and he did
(10:47):
admit that he somehow forgot tolog maybe 50 more missions, so
we don't know exactly how manyhe did fly.
In january 67 he took command ofan f4c phantom squadron at
denang air base in south vietnamand he kind of whipped that
outfit into shape and that'swhen they were starting to fly
north into North Vietnam andsome pretty good stories there.
(11:14):
But he eventually shot downthree MiG-21 fighters within two
days and the one he got firstday got him a silver star.
And then, downing two MiGs, twodays later, he was awarded the
Air Force Cross.
Then he came back to the Statesand was assigned to Air Force
(11:37):
headquarters and put in chargeof the F-15 program.
So he and some stellar guysactually put together what
became the Eagle, the F-15 Eagleprogram, and brought it into
the inventory.
During that time we talk aboutin the book, about the so-called
gunfights that he had to gothrough, because he, having shot
(11:59):
down one MiG with a20-millimeter cannon in a gun
pod pod mounted on the centerline of his Phantom, he knew
very well the value of a cannonor a gun in these fighters.
But at the time seniorleadership in the Air Force was
convinced you didn't need a gun,all you needed was missiles.
(12:20):
But he fought long and hard andmanaged to get the gun 20
millimeter, 20 millimeter cannonmounted internal to the f-15.
However, those gunfightsprobably cost him a couple of
stars because he irritated thewrong people, but he always
smiled and he would say, yeah,but every air force fighter
(12:42):
since the 70s has had a gun init.
So he later commanded the 18thTactical Fighter Wing in Okinawa
(13:02):
, which Tom can talk about,served any number of staff
assignments, received one starany number of them that played
on the football team there andthey all learned from him how to
lead by example, and he, as oneof the Air Force's preeminent
(13:25):
commanders, was the right guy todo exactly that.
Unfortunately, we lostEarthquake Titus just recently,
on September 8th.
He flew west and left quite alegacy Over to you, al and Tom.
CDR Al Palmer, USN ret (13:37):
Well, indeed he did, and Tom, I know,
flew with him.
Tom, I think you started outwith him in 104s, is that right?
Lt Gen. Tom McInerney, USAF (13:48):
Tom Bilyeu MD.
No, I was in a 104 squadronduring the Berlin crisis.
When Earthquake was the opsofficer of the 53rd squadron at
Bitburg and I was over at HahnTDY and I was over at Hahn TDY
(14:12):
and and earthquake, as I recall,was never in a 104 squadron.
He just tested them at Edwards.
He tested everything and he wasa legend in his lifetime.
I was telling earthquake.
You know earthquake.
The first time I met you werethe ops officer of the 53rd
Squadron at Bitburg and the wingcommander.
There was a chap by the name ofGeneral Bob Dellashaw, a big
(14:34):
brigadier general In my 104Squadron.
His nephew was my flightcommander, tom Dellashaw, and
really taught me so many thingsas a young fighter pilot because
the 104s were my first squadron, operational squadron.
I went through F-100s afterflying school, but that's the
(14:57):
first time I met Earthquake.
The 105s were the only thuds,as we call them in Europe at the
time, so it was brand new.
CDR Al Palmer, USN ret (15:10):
They were D models.
Lt Gen. Tom McInerney, USAF (15:12):
And he played a major role in their
development.
My next run-in with Earthquakewas when he became the commander
of the Scotchie Tigers and thatwas bringing the f5s over to to
Vietnam.
(15:33):
Now I'd come back for my firsttour in Vietnam in 64, going
from 104s to a Ford aircontroller in Vietnam, 63 to 64.
And I was in the first F-4fighter weapons well, first F-4
wing except I was in adetachment up at Eglin Air Force
(15:57):
Base testing the F-4 anddropping bombs and doing all the
early testing in the F-4Cs.
Bob brought his group in andthey were doing the test of the
F-5.
And he was using our squadronas an administrative facility
(16:24):
and so I got to know him a lotbetter in the work that he was
doing.
I subsequently went from theF4C squadron to the weapons
school at Nellis, the first F4weapons school, and then I
stayed on as an instructor.
(16:45):
So I left Eglin and doing thetesting and that's where I ran
into Bob again, but he was nowdeveloping the.
FX, as we call it in those days,and I was the F4D category 3
project officer, and then theF4E category 3, which was the
F4D Category 3 Project Officer,and then the F4E Category 3,
(17:08):
which was the first F4 that hadan internal gun.
Now the connection was I was astrong proponent, but Bob by
then was a full colonel, I thinkno, he was still a lieutenant
colonel in the.
Pentagon and he was pushing onthe F-15 to have an internal gun
(17:36):
and so we were putting it inthe F-4, and I'd get a lot of
visitors, the studies andanalysis, people from the
Pentagon that would come out andthey would, you know, ask us
young fighter pilots.
I was a captain, you know whatwe thought about it and of
course I was a very strongproponent.
(17:58):
Then the interesting thing was,bob made the selection of the
F-15.
Then he went.
I gotta think of the timingHe'd gone back to Southeast Asia
with these Scotsie Tigers, theF-5.
(18:20):
And then he went up to, as Billsaid, went up to Da Nang.
He was flying the F-5s out ofBenoit.
Then he went up to Da Nang andtook over an F-4E squadron.
CDR Al Palmer, USN ret (18:35):
They had .
Lt Gen. Tom McInerney, USAF (18:35):
E's there, and I'm pretty sure they
were E's.
No, they were not.
They had not yet gotten the Eyet, because I know I brought
the first E's in.
They were D's and I'd done the Dtest.
But the important thing was Iflew with Bob's squadron and one
(19:00):
of his weapons officer was achap by the name of Bob Dilger
and Bob had been a student ofmine at Nellis in the weapons
school and I was over there atTDY.
Nellis would keep a chap inEurope and in Vietnam all the
(19:22):
time Southeast Asia keeping upto date on the latest tactics
and they'd feed them back toNellis and I was on one of those
tours.
I had two of those tours inaddition to the one I had, and
then I went back for a fourthtour on my own in the first F-4E
squadron that I'd done thetesting at Karat, in the first
(19:45):
F4E squadron that I'd done thetesting at Karat.
But in any case, dilge was avery aggressive guy and so I was
flying with him.
He said, tom, I want to go intoRoute Package 6, which was the
Hanoi area, hanoi Haiphong area,and we'll go in low level in
(20:07):
the daytime.
And of course I was, you know,a little bit stunned by it.
But I was a fighter pilot andhe was doing some tactics over
there.
I wanted to be part of it.
I said, okay, dilge and he wasdoing some tactics over there.
I wanted to be part of it.
I said, okay, dilge, but theword got out to ba to earthquake
(20:29):
.
They didn't call themearthquake in the squadron in
those days.
No, we didn't use call signs inthose days bill didn't like.
So Earthquake found out about itand Earthquake said no, you're
(20:54):
not going to do that.
And we of course saluted yes,sir, we're not going to do that.
I believe because we did not dothat, I am still here Now.
I've had a lot of problemsbetween then and but I would not
have made it through that tourin the daylight in route package
six, no matter how fast youwere going.
(21:17):
He saved my life he saved mylife and Bill put that
particular story in his book onearthquake, but I'm immensely
grateful to him for it.
But he was an extraordinarycommander and when actually when
(21:40):
he when he returned from beingsquadron commander there and
with the three MiGs, is whenthey sent him to the Pentagon
and assigned him as a sourceselection for the FX and he had
Gary Willard and a bunch ofoutstanding fighter pilots.
You may have remembered Gary.
CDR Al Palmer, USN ret (22:02):
Yes indeed.
Lt Gen. Tom McInerney, (22:04):
Because he started the Wild Weasel for
the US, us Air Force in theF-100s.
Yep he sure did so.
Earthquakes surrounded himselfwith good people, and they
selected the F-15, mcdonnellDouglas version.
The biggest competitor was aversion from Northrop Grumman.
(22:28):
That well, it was just Northropin those days, and Grumman
hadn't bought them yet but, theygot the right airplane.
The Northrop was a good airplane, don't misunderstand me.
It was a high flyer and itcould boom out to well past Mach
2, but it didn't turn as welland didn't do the things at the
(22:53):
F-15.
So I spent a lot of time in theF-15 once it became operational
.
Well, because when I leftNellis I went back to Staff
College and then to the Pentagon.
I was the F-15 project officerin requirements.
Once they selected it and namedit the F-15, it hadn't flown, I
(23:15):
was working on it, theydispersed, earthquake, went to
National War and then I firstflight and then I got assigned
to Luke as a 104 F-5 DO.
(23:38):
I had German students for F-4sand I had a lot of Saudis and
the like for F-5s over atWoolley, saudis and the like for
F-5s over at Woolley.
And then I went to the Pentagonand I became the F-15 project
officer.
No, excuse me, I'd already hadthat job, but I got to fly the
(24:07):
F-15 when I was in London Onceit flew and I went from Luke to
London as the air attache and Ileft Luke three months before
the F-15s came in for the firstbase for F-15s, which
disappointed me.
But I wasn't given a choice.
The chief of staff fired theair attache and so they I got
(24:38):
selected to go.
But the beauty was atFarnborough.
They brought the F-15s over andthe test pilots knew me and so I
got to fly the F-15 in Englandand, excuse me, the, which was,
(25:02):
which was a great experiencebecause then the chief of the
air staff, sir Andrew Humphrey.
I went back to the UnitedStates with him and he visited
all of the chief and all thefour stars and he was the last
chief of air staff to fly theComet.
You may all remember the Cometwas the first passenger jet and
(25:27):
the RAF still was flying it forthe chief of air staff.
So I flew around the UnitedStates, over and around the
United States, in a BritishComet with the chief of the air
staff and of course I wastelling him a lot about the F-15
, because I was bound anddetermined, lot about the F-15
(25:50):
because I was bound anddetermined to sell the F-15 to
the Royal Air Force.
And Sir Andrew and I got alongvery well because when we came
back from that trip he said allright, tom, I want you to fly
every fighter.
The Royal Air Force has.
Every airplane.
The Royal Air Force has everyairplane.
The Royal Air Force has Ofcourse.
I went through all the fightersbut I wasn't much for the
(26:15):
airlift.
No offense.
CDR Al Palmer, USN ret (26:19):
You got to fly the Vulcan.
Lt Gen. Tom McInerney, USAF r (26:23):
I turned the Vulcan down, and I
turned it down because theywouldn't let me go to the pilot
seat.
Well, it turns out the Vulcanwasn't like most bombers.
It didn't have a pilot,co-pilot seat, it only had a
pilot seat, and so they were notgoing to let me fly in that
(26:43):
seat and be the only one incontrol of the airplane.
I should have done it, becausea Vulcan is just a fantastic
airplane.
CDR Al Palmer, USN ret (26:53):
Oh yeah, so you told them, forget that
one right.
Lt Gen. Tom McInerney, USA (26:56):
Yeah , but I got the P-1 Lightning
and you may have remembered thatthat had the engines one on top
of another.
It stayed up less time than a104, but boy did it have smash
and it could boom off and greatairplane, but in any case.
(27:16):
So earthquake had establishedfor me some very vital things.
I came back and went to was awing commander in the
Philippines and took the airdivision over in Okinawa that
Bob had had.
They converted the wing to anair division.
(27:38):
I had a wing underneath me, butthat was a marvelous assignment
.
We had F-15s then, so I got alot of F-15s then, so I got a
lot of 15 time there and Iremember the last flight out.
I got promoted to two stars outof there and so I went back as
the DCS operations and Intel forPACAF, pacific Air Forces.
(28:04):
I launched 55 F-15s come out andfour squadrons, the squadron
commanders leading each one oftheir squadrons, and the first
time anybody said anything waswhen we came back.
We went out and we did had awall of eagles, 55 eagles coming
(28:30):
across the training area.
We're using our F4s as targetsand it was beautiful to do, took
them all out and then headedhome and in the break I was blue
lead.
I said blue lead, gear down andcheck, and that was the first
(28:51):
time we talked.
Now the reason I point this outwas because I didn't care where
, what the kid's last pilot'slast name was where he went to
school, who he was married to,who his mommy and daddy were.
Any of that Everything wasbased on merit and you're
(29:15):
talking a single-seat fighter,which I grew up in most of the
time, except all the F-4 timeand the 111 time I had.
But we now are facing and, withSTARS is doing a magnificent job
.
We are now facing critical racetheory and DEI, diversity,
(29:38):
equity and inclusion, and theseare Marxist ideologies, al Bill.
We are faced with something Inever thought could happen.
Now, of course, I went throughmy career in the Air Force and
ended up in Washington and gotin television by accident
(30:02):
because of a non-profit.
I'm only saying this becausewhen 9-11 happened, I then ended
up working for Fox News for 16and a half years.
But my point is I never thoughtanybody could penetrate the US
military.
They have.
(30:24):
I just never believed it couldhappen, and I was going, before
COVID-19, into the Pentagon fourdays a week because I had a
running edge cloud company andwe can ingest every sensor on
the battle space.
Now it's changed in our daybecause you've got all these
(30:46):
UAVs.
They're pumping lots of databack in.
You've got the F-35 is just isour most fantastic sensor and
the guys at Langley stillhaven't figured it out.
What they don't really want isthe A-2 running the air tasking
order, the FRAG A2 running theair tasking order, the FRAG
(31:09):
because the F-35 ingests everysensor it sees.
But when you fuse all this dataand we had a pod over in Bagram
(31:32):
and we were ingesting from aUAV and a normal UAV, as you
know, has got a very narrowfield of view maybe 50 yards
depending on your altitude,maybe 30 depending on your
altitude this had 8 kilometers,so it is ingesting far more data
and they would land it.
(31:56):
And the reason I'm getting intothis is because we have got a
military that is changing.
But I was heavily involved uptill COVID-19 with the military.
I still am, but I'm not in thePentagon four days a week and I
know that earthquake.
I have gotten very aggressive.
(32:17):
I do four radio shows a week.
I don't do Fox News anymorebecause they fired me.
They fired me because I calledJohn McCain Songbird John.
They really wanted to fire mebecause I was one of the first
general officers to supportPresident Trump and so for those
(32:40):
years when they'd introduce me,they'd say that and, as it
turns out, I don't want to getinto it too much now, but the
fact is I've been heavilyinvolved with this critical race
theory with DEI, what it'sdoing to our military, what has
(33:02):
happened to our nation, andSTARS has been an absolute
superb leader in trying to turnthis around and get the Air
Force Academy.
I'm involved with the LincolnGroup for West Point and there's
a Calvert Group for Annapolis,but they are trying to change
(33:24):
our military.
They're trying to change ourmilitary.
CDR Al Palmer, USN ret (33:29):
They're trying to change our country.
They indeed are General, andwe're so happy to have you on
our side on that argument,because it is one that we're
facing today.
As you say, we didn't have whenwe were younger, going out and
flying every day.
I remember my biggest concernwas am I gonna get enough sleep
here before I have to turnaround and go back and fly over
the North again and, as you know, getting up every day to do
(33:52):
that?
You know you can't be weak, youcan't have doubts, you can't
hesitate, you can't not be thereand also, you can't not be
really good at what you do rightand I worry that we're losing
some of that now.
Do right, and I worry that we'relosing some of that now and if
(34:13):
we're not careful, that's a verydelicate commodity to have
today.
So what do you think, both ofyou?
What do you think Earthquakewould say if he was faced with
that today?
Lt Gen. Tom McInerney, USA (34:23):
Well , he'd say the same thing that
I'm saying, but Bill can tellyou what he'll say.
Bill Scott (34:32):
Yeah, we talked about that a lot when I was
doing interviews with him and heobviously had absolutely no
patience with DEI whatsoever.
He saw it as a very big cancer,as Tom said, in the military.
It's literally rotting ourmilitary from the inside out and
(34:54):
, of course, it is reallyhampering recruitment because a
lot of guys don't want to join amilitary.
That's all about gender, colorand having the right narrative
at your fingertips and and as myson, who, tom also, was a West
(35:15):
Point graduate years before weeven heard DEI, he said Dad, I
don't want to go to war withthese guys.
And how many other young menand women feel the same way now,
too, that you run into anynumber of veterans and probably
(35:38):
active duty people too.
That said, I am now warning myown children to not go into the
military, and these were guysthat served 20 and 30 years and
were diehard patriots, but noneof them really feel comfortable
with the attitudes andleadership in almost all of our
military services.
I might make an exception forthe Marines right now, because
(36:02):
they seem to be the one that hasresisted the DEI the most.
Over to you, tom.
Lt Gen. Tom McInerney, USA (36:09):
Well , I never talked to Earthquake
about this because I'mpassionate about the issue and I
don't like to, and with thetime I had left with Earthquake.
Since this has started, it justnever presented itself.
(36:31):
But you know, I'm on the radiofour days a week talking to
everybody.
I just did a radio show talkingabout the assassination second
assassination of President Trumpattempt and all this is related
and I don't want to get backinto those sides.
(36:56):
I want to keep it focused onthe starved side, on the
military side.
But none of what is happeningis by accident.
And President Trump when hecomes back in and God if he
doesn't come back in we'refinished as a nation.
If all the chiefs are going tohave to go, the Marine may not,
(37:18):
but the other chiefs which haveaccepted it and the chairman are
going to have to go.
Now we've never had to do thisand the only thing I do is
encourage people knowing thathopefully we're going to win
this and we need good people inthe military, al and Bill.
But we have never seen anythinglike this, that our greatest
(37:44):
threat is from within and themilitary was our last bastion,
and it's critical and that's whywhat STARS is doing for us is
so vitally important.
We're working in the MacArthurSociety and the Calvert Group,
(38:07):
but we're nibbling at the edgesand that's why I've gone public
on it and I don't want, withGeneral Bishop and that, get
stars to be where I am on thetotality of it from the whole
government.
I want them to focus on the AirForce Academy on the military
(38:32):
side of it, keep the focus onthat.
But I want everybody tounderstand it is bigger than the
military.
It is being driven by Marxistsin our government.
But STARS is leading the way onthe service academies and I
(38:52):
helped form and I'm on the boardof directors of the MacArthur
Society and I helped form andI'm on the board of directors of
the MacArthur Society.
CDR Al Palmer, USN ret (39:02):
And the important thing is, macarthur
Society is a great sisterorganization, along with the
Calvin group.
And that's a battle that we'refighting every day, almost these
days.
Lt Gen. Tom McInerney, USAF (39:14):
But one thing that you mentioned
earlier about us.
CDR Al Palmer, USN ret (39:18):
In the past we've relied on military
families particularly to be asource of our leaders,
particularly our officers.
And I'm no different.
I'm from a generation, athree-generation family, who
have all done that as aviators.
And yet when my grandsonswanted to join the military, I
said guys need to investigatethis pretty carefully because it
(39:40):
has changed a great deal.
Two of them went in, spent acouple of years and came right
back out, which disappointed me.
But there are a lot of otherswe've had on this podcast who've
had the same experience,generations of children, the
same experience.
Generations of children,grandchildren, relatives who
(40:01):
have been associated and, in themilitary senses, dependents,
like I was, who now have decidedthat they can't support that
anymore.
That is a telling problem andwe've got you're right, general,
we've got to fix that and fixit soon.
Can I mention one other thing?
I had the pleasure of servingunder Titus when I was in the
67th Attack Fighter Squadron.
We were flying F-4 Weaselsthere in Okinawa at the end of
(40:25):
the war, and so Titus sent meoff to fight the end of the war
in Wild Weasels.
He said you guys got to go endthis thing.
Well, we did.
We went over there expecting tobe there for a year or a
hundred missions, and we endedthe war and came home early,
which was great.
But then Titus had another taskin front of him and that was to
(40:48):
send us right back over toTaiwan to get into defending
Taiwan, who unfortunatelycouldn't quite as well because
they'd given all those KoshiTigers to the South Vietnamese
who promptly lost them to theNorth Vietnamese when we gave up
over in Vietnam.
So for about a year we wereover in Taiwan, standing air
(41:11):
defense alert and defending theTaiwanese from the Chinese
defense alert and defending theTaiwanese from the Chinese.
And here we are right backagain in a major almost conflict
that happened but Earthquakethrough it.
All was great with that.
He supported us, he took careof his people and it worked out
(41:31):
really well and it wouldn't havehappened, I don't think,
without his great leadership.
Lt Gen. Tom McInerney, USAF (41:37):
No , and he understood it.
When I took the wing over atClark, we still had nuclear
forces out of my wing up at CCK,and then we moved those forces
out, but, but my air did.
(42:01):
I had an air defenseidentification zone.
He did his responsibility asthe wing commander at clark and
along, and my boss, the 13th airforce commander, had had that
overall responsibility, but Ihad the assets and uh.
But that's what's changed forus and that's why what's what
you're doing now, al with stars,is so very, very important, uh,
(42:25):
and and I've been a strongsupporter of of uh rod bishop
and the whole team you guys havedone a fantastic job, and I got
the MacArthur Society to usestars as the model when we
started out, and so that's whywhat you're doing is so
(42:50):
critically important.
This election is going todetermine that.
This election is going todetermine which way we're going
to go as a nation.
Now I believe, the divine Lordis behind us, because that's the
only thing that saved PresidentTrump.
If you measure the distancebetween your ear and your head
(43:13):
and a bullet goes through there,you know that it wasn't looking
at the view graph that did that.
Once that happened, the dearLord and Bob was a very devout
guy- he knows and we're going toneed his help because I've
(43:33):
gotten very involved with howthe election was done using
cyber warfare and all thosethings.
CDR Al Palmer, USN ret (43:43):
And so, as Bob Titus, I think, would
remind all of us and it was truewhen we were younger the
services were totally apolitical.
I mean, I didn't have apolitical bone in my body when I
was flying, and if I would have, I imagine Titus would have
gotten me doing something else.
But today, you're right, thechallenges that we face, in the
(44:07):
military particularly, are notso much political as they are
ideological.
And around here in STARS, wedon't want to talk candidates
and parties, but we do talkabout the threats of ideologies,
particularly those that are ascorrosive as the ones we're
facing today.
And, general, you're absolutelyright, we need to fight that
(44:30):
and do it hard right now, beforeit gets out of control.
Bill Scott (44:34):
There are marks.
I did have a chance to seeGeneral Titus in action.
Back on April 25th we had whatwe call a heritage moment at the
Air Force Academy.
It was designed to honorGeneral Titus.
So all of the firsties thegraduating cadets class of 2024,
(44:59):
came to the Arnold Hall Theater.
I was on stage with Earthquake,I introduced him, gave a little
two minute overview of themoderator, had asked me to set
(45:19):
up and then ask General Titus,when I turned it over to him,
how about telling us aboutshooting down those MiGs?
Well, he ignored that and wentahead and spoke to the cadets
and it was brilliant and it wasall about duty, honor, honor,
mission, which is what he stoodfor his entire life.
(45:40):
And as we were coming towardsthe end of that, catten
introduced one more time soplease tell the cadets about
shooting down those makes.
And bob just kind of bellowedto the whole theater, says well,
when I got that first one, Ijust yelled, I got that son of a
bitch and the whole placeerupted in this massive hoorah
(46:05):
and the cadets absolutely lovedit then, we did a book signing
right after that and at least ahundred, probably more than a
hundred cadets lined up, stoodthere in line for sometimes up
to two hours while bob and Isigned copies of the books.
Because when those cadets wentinto the theater we gave them a
(46:27):
thousand twenty five copiesgratis of the earthquake book,
thanks to people like tommcinerney and a few others that
donated to make that happen.
Well, we felt, bob and I felt,that those kids that stood in
line for that long, those werethe leaders of tomorrow, because
(46:50):
every single one of themthanked him for being there and
they were very respectful.
A lot of them didn't show up,of course, and the few cadets
that I was able to say what doyou think about this dei stuff?
The best they could do is rolltheir eyes and just kind of
gently shake their head.
They knew what it took to getthrough and graduate.
(47:12):
But I'm telling, there's a fewothers, probably a lot of others
, that are being indoctrinatedand they're eating this stuff up
.
So thank God for STARS workingon it, but I would say the
academies, tom, you may agree,from the MacArthur Society side
of things, they're going to be areal challenge.
CDR Al Palmer, USN ret (47:35):
Well, we're busy, as you say, bill,
fighting that all the time, andparticularly now that fight goes
on.
Stars is still looking forpeople who want to help us with
that, and those watching thispodcast can help with that.
We're looking for volunteers.
(47:55):
We're looking for folks who maywant to help us with donations.
They can go to our website andtake care of that.
There.
There's an avenue to do that,but we're organized and our
function is to now educatepeople and go to action, and
it's time for a call to action,and that's part of what this
(48:15):
podcast is about.
And my thanks to the both ofyou, bill Scott and General
McInerney, for being with ustoday to reinforce that message
to the folks who might belistening to this.
Our numbers are growing on thepodcast.
We're happy about that, butwe've got a whole lot of work
still to do here and I'm so gladto have had both of you with us
(48:37):
today to talk to our STARSaudience about that.
And thanks again for being withus.
Guys Really appreciate it.
Lt Gen. Tom McInerney, U (48:45):
Thanks for having us, Phil.
Thank you.
CDR Al Palmer, USN ret (48:47):
Thanks to both of you and we'll see you
maybe in another time here wewill have more time and more
room to talk about things thatwe went over today.
And thanks again and to ouraudience.
This is Commander Al Palmer,retired.
I'm going to sign off and leaveyou with this one thought Today
(49:07):
is Constitution Day.
Do what you can do, as we haveall done, in raising our hands
to protect the Constitutionagainst all enemies, foreign and
domestic.
And we'll see you for anotherepisode next week.
Well, hello America.
This is Commander Al Palmer,United States Navy Retired, and
I'm your host for SStars andStripes.
Pleasure having you back withus today as we examine some of
the issues that are facing ourarmed forces today and what we
can do to find ways to keep ourforces strong, keep meritocracy
(00:34):
at the top of our list of thingswe need to have for our
warfighters and concentrate onsolid leadership and
accountability to keep ourforces able to function.
So to do that today, I'm proudto say on this Constitution Day,
by the way that we're happy tohave two really esteemed guests
(00:54):
with us.
The first is Bill Scott, who'san author.
He's been very instrumental inbeing an author of over 2,500
articles that have appeared inthe magazines, most notably the
one that he worked for for 22years, which was Aviation Week
and Space Technology, One of myfavorites when I was a young
(01:18):
aviator.
We couldn't wait for it to comeout to find what was really
happening in the aircraft thatwe were flying.
And, Bill, it's a greatpleasure, sir, to have you with
us today.
AnGeneral Tom McInerney.
He was a great fighter pilot.
He's a leader across allaspects of leadership in the Air
(01:38):
Force and he's got anillustrious career.
And so, tom sir, it's great tohave you with us here today too.
But I will tell you, before weeven get on to any of this, we
all share one thing very much incommon.
We all worked with or servedunder General Brigadier General
(01:58):
Robert F Titus, knownaffectionately by the folks he
flew with as Earthquake, and Isuspect you're probably
wondering where that name comesfrom.
Well, probably because GeneralTitus, whoever he talked to,
whoever he worked with, heusually ended up shaking up in
some way.
Either it was positive orsometimes a little negative.
(02:20):
But what I loved about servingwith him was he always demanded
that we did the best we couldand he rewarded us for it when
we did it.
When he did it, he'd kick us inthe rear end a little bit.
So we're here to talk aboutthat today in Bill's book called
Earthquake.
And so with that, bill, I'mgoing to turn it over to you to
(02:42):
lead us into this discussionabout one of America's great
fighter pilots and heroes, BobTitus.
Bill Scott (02:50):
Thank you, al.
I was sort of drafted about ayear ago to capture Bob Titus's
story and it was an honor to doso, believe me, because he did
have quite an illustrious career.
32 years he served in uniformand he started in the Army of
(03:12):
all things and retired from theAir Force 32 years later.
But on his 18th birthday hejoined the Army, became a
paratrooper, got his wings andhe was ready to jump into Japan
when World War II ended.
Well, the army didn't needquite as many people at that
point.
(03:32):
So he and many others musteredout and he went back to school
at Virginia Tech.
So he was there for about twoyears and in the spring of 1948,
he was walking across campusand there was an Air Force
recruiter who had a table set upand this guy said hey, you can
(03:52):
go fly airplanes.
So he decided that was going tobe a lot more attractive career
move than being a miningengineer.
So he left Virginia Tech,joined the new Air Force there
and went to pilot training.
He really wanted to fly at thattime P-51 Mustangs.
(04:13):
But when he got through pilottraining did well there they
said he was too tall and if youwere too tall to fly fighters,
you had to go to bombers, so hedid.
He was checked out in the B-25Mitchell but eventually wrangled
his way into the then calledF-51 Mustang and about the time
(04:36):
the Korean War broke out he hadenough time.
He was sent right over thereand became a fighter pilot
flying missions in the P-51.
And he flew 101 missions in theKorean War both in the F-51 and
the F-86 jet.
(04:56):
And at one point he did getshot down and he had to bail out
of that F-51 at a very lowaltitude.
Thankfully he had thatparachute, training didn't get
hurt.
Hit the ground in no man's landbetween the two warring forces
here.
Well, as soon as he hit theground he sees, in his words,
(05:20):
guys in quilted pajamas comingat him and those guys had
semi-automatic weapons or fullyautomatic.
He had a little pea shooterrevolver.
He jumped into a crater thereand said, oh, this is not going
to work out well.
Then he hears an American voicesay keep your head down and
crawl this way.
He was close to a Marine bunker.
(05:43):
So he did exactly that.
The Marines chased off the badguy and he lived to fight
another day.
So if we fast forward, after heleft Korea he was assigned to a
unit ferrying jets, f-86s andF-84s across the North Atlantic
(06:05):
to NATO bases in Europe, and itwasn't trivial in those days.
They lost enough pilots and itwas considered a hazardous
enough mission that after 10 ofthose crossings the pilots were
given an air medal.
Well, after that he wasassigned to Edwards Air Force
(06:35):
Base, went through Air Forcetest pilot school there and then
graduated the class 54B andthen moved down the street and
joined the cadre of you know,soon to be legendary test pilots
that brought the Century Seriesfighters online and he flight
tested every single one of themF-100, the F-102 Delta Dart or
(06:59):
Delta Dagger, the F-104Starfighter, f-105 Thunder Chief
and and F-106 Delta Dart, plusa host of other ones.
But one of his most unique testprograms was called the F-100
Zero Launch System.
And here they put a fighterlike you see there the F-100, on
(07:20):
a rail, mounted on a trailer,on a rail, mounted on a trailer,
and they would tip this thingup about 20 degrees and then
they'd put a 130,000-poundrocket booster.
They'd mount it right there onthe center line and, in Bob's
(07:48):
terms, you would crawl into thecockpit, crank it up, go to
afterburnerer, pull a switch.
It was on the front edge of thethrottle and off you go.
In his words he said, youaccelerate from zero to 275
miles per hour in four secondsand the rocket booster falls off
where it was supposed to be.
And the whole concept at thetime was being able to disperse
American fighters around thecountry, launch them from about
(08:08):
anywhere.
The program really didn't goanywhere for a number of good
logistical reasons.
Well, after that program ended,bob was tasked with finding a
mission for a couple of two-seatF-100s and he came up with what
they call Operation JuliusCaesar and that was to
demonstrate that fighters couldbe flown non-stop or the North
(08:32):
Pole.
So he, with Brigadier GeneralCharles Blair and two backseat
pilots, flew a couple oftwo-seat F-100s from England to
Alaska.
Nine hours, three in-flightrefuelings, and that was where
he picked up yet anotherdistinguished flying cross.
(08:56):
Then the Air Force sent him tothe University of Chicago to get
a master's in businessadministration degree and he
subsequently flew F-105 ThunderChief fighters or thuds in
Europe.
That was a tactical nuclearmission.
They were setting alert with asmall nuke strapped to their 105
(09:20):
.
He came back to the States, wasassigned to Air Force Tactical
Air Command and General GordonGraham at the time gave him the
task to formulate the generaloperational requirement for what
became the FX program and thatevolved into the F-15 Eagle air
(09:42):
superiority fighter, into theF-15 Eagle air superiority
fighter and to Al's point duringthat period Gordy Graham yelled
across the hallway one timesend earthquake over here.
And that spontaneous referencestuck.
That became Bob Titus's callsign.
He never did like it much butit was definitely appropriate
(10:04):
for a guy that anybody that knewthat deep voice brash officer.
So he can continue to advancerapidly through ranks and
commanded various units andeventually when the Vietnam War
started he headed up the 10thFighter Commando Squadron at Ben
Hoa in Vietnam.
They were called the ScotiTigers.
(10:26):
They flew the F-5 FreedomFighter before those airplanes
were turned over to the SouthVietnamese.
He flew 350 air combat missionsin that airplane and he did
(10:47):
admit that he somehow forgot tolog maybe 50 more missions, so
we don't know exactly how manyhe did fly.
In january 67 he took command ofan f4c phantom squadron at
denang air base in south vietnamand he kind of whipped that
outfit into shape and that'swhen they were starting to fly
north into North Vietnam andsome pretty good stories there.
(11:14):
But he eventually shot downthree MiG-21 fighters within two
days and the one he got firstday got him a silver star.
And then, downing two MiGs, twodays later, he was awarded the
Air Force Cross.
Then he came back to the Statesand was assigned to Air Force
(11:37):
headquarters and put in chargeof the F-15 program.
So he and some stellar guysactually put together what
became the Eagle, the F-15 Eagleprogram, and brought it into
the inventory.
During that time we talk aboutin the book, about the so-called
gunfights that he had to gothrough, because he, having shot
(11:59):
down one MiG with a20-millimeter cannon in a gun
pod pod mounted on the centerline of his Phantom, he knew
very well the value of a cannonor a gun in these fighters.
But at the time seniorleadership in the Air Force was
convinced you didn't need a gun,all you needed was missiles.
(12:20):
But he fought long and hard andmanaged to get the gun 20
millimeter, 20 millimeter cannonmounted internal to the f-15.
However, those gunfightsprobably cost him a couple of
stars because he irritated thewrong people, but he always
smiled and he would say, yeah,but every air force fighter
(12:42):
since the 70s has had a gun init.
So he later commanded the 18thTactical Fighter Wing in Okinawa
(13:02):
, which Tom can talk about,served any number of staff
assignments, received one starany number of them that played
on the football team there andthey all learned from him how to
lead by example, and he, as oneof the Air Force's preeminent
(13:25):
commanders, was the right guy todo exactly that.
Unfortunately, we lostEarthquake Titus just recently,
on September 8th.
He flew west and left quite alegacy Over to you, al and Tom.
CDR Al Palmer, USN ret (13:37):
Well, indeed he did, and Tom, I know,
flew with him.
Tom, I think you started outwith him in 104s, is that right?
Lt Gen. Tom McInerney, USAF (13:48):
Tom Bilyeu MD.
No, I was in a 104 squadronduring the Berlin crisis.
When Earthquake was the opsofficer of the 53rd squadron at
Bitburg and I was over at HahnTDY and I was over at Hahn TDY
(14:12):
and and earthquake, as I recall,was never in a 104 squadron.
He just tested them at Edwards.
He tested everything and he wasa legend in his lifetime.
I was telling earthquake.
You know earthquake.
The first time I met you werethe ops officer of the 53rd
Squadron at Bitburg and the wingcommander.
There was a chap by the name ofGeneral Bob Dellashaw, a big
(14:34):
brigadier general In my 104Squadron.
His nephew was my flightcommander, tom Dellashaw, and
really taught me so many thingsas a young fighter pilot because
the 104s were my first squadron, operational squadron.
I went through F-100s afterflying school, but that's the
(14:57):
first time I met Earthquake.
The 105s were the only thuds,as we call them in Europe at the
time, so it was brand new.
CDR Al Palmer, USN ret (15:10):
They were D models.
Lt Gen. Tom McInerney, USAF (15:12):
And he played a major role in their
development.
My next run-in with Earthquakewas when he became the commander
of the Scotchie Tigers and thatwas bringing the f5s over to to
Vietnam.
(15:33):
Now I'd come back for my firsttour in Vietnam in 64, going
from 104s to a Ford aircontroller in Vietnam, 63 to 64.
And I was in the first F-4fighter weapons well, first F-4
wing except I was in adetachment up at Eglin Air Force
(15:57):
Base testing the F-4 anddropping bombs and doing all the
early testing in the F-4Cs.
Bob brought his group in andthey were doing the test of the
F-5.
And he was using our squadronas an administrative facility
(16:24):
and so I got to know him a lotbetter in the work that he was
doing.
I subsequently went from theF4C squadron to the weapons
school at Nellis, the first F4weapons school, and then I
stayed on as an instructor.
(16:45):
So I left Eglin and doing thetesting and that's where I ran
into Bob again, but he was nowdeveloping the.
FX, as we call it in those days,and I was the F4D category 3
project officer, and then theF4E category 3, which was the
F4D Category 3 Project Officer,and then the F4E Category 3,
(17:08):
which was the first F4 that hadan internal gun.
Now the connection was I was astrong proponent, but Bob by
then was a full colonel, I thinkno, he was still a lieutenant
colonel in the.
Pentagon and he was pushing onthe F-15 to have an internal gun
(17:36):
and so we were putting it inthe F-4, and I'd get a lot of
visitors, the studies andanalysis, people from the
Pentagon that would come out andthey would, you know, ask us
young fighter pilots.
I was a captain, you know whatwe thought about it and of
course I was a very strongproponent.
(17:58):
Then the interesting thing was,bob made the selection of the
F-15.
Then he went.
I gotta think of the timingHe'd gone back to Southeast Asia
with these Scotsie Tigers, theF-5.
(18:20):
And then he went up to, as Billsaid, went up to Da Nang.
He was flying the F-5s out ofBenoit.
Then he went up to Da Nang andtook over an F-4E squadron.
CDR Al Palmer, USN ret (18:35):
They had .
Lt Gen. Tom McInerney, USAF (18:35):
E's there, and I'm pretty sure they
were E's.
No, they were not.
They had not yet gotten the Eyet, because I know I brought
the first E's in.
They were D's and I'd done the Dtest.
But the important thing was Iflew with Bob's squadron and one
(19:00):
of his weapons officer was achap by the name of Bob Dilger
and Bob had been a student ofmine at Nellis in the weapons
school and I was over there atTDY.
Nellis would keep a chap inEurope and in Vietnam all the
(19:22):
time Southeast Asia keeping upto date on the latest tactics
and they'd feed them back toNellis and I was on one of those
tours.
I had two of those tours inaddition to the one I had, and
then I went back for a fourthtour on my own in the first F-4E
squadron that I'd done thetesting at Karat, in the first
(19:45):
F4E squadron that I'd done thetesting at Karat.
But in any case, dilge was avery aggressive guy and so I was
flying with him.
He said, tom, I want to go intoRoute Package 6, which was the
Hanoi area, hanoi Haiphong area,and we'll go in low level in
(20:07):
the daytime.
And of course I was, you know,a little bit stunned by it.
But I was a fighter pilot andhe was doing some tactics over
there.
I wanted to be part of it.
I said, okay, dilge and he wasdoing some tactics over there.
I wanted to be part of it.
I said, okay, dilge, but theword got out to ba to earthquake
(20:29):
.
They didn't call themearthquake in the squadron in
those days.
No, we didn't use call signs inthose days bill didn't like.
So Earthquake found out about itand Earthquake said no, you're
(20:54):
not going to do that.
And we of course saluted yes,sir, we're not going to do that.
I believe because we did not dothat, I am still here Now.
I've had a lot of problemsbetween then and but I would not
have made it through that tourin the daylight in route package
six, no matter how fast youwere going.
(21:17):
He saved my life he saved mylife and Bill put that
particular story in his book onearthquake, but I'm immensely
grateful to him for it.
But he was an extraordinarycommander and when actually when
(21:40):
he when he returned from beingsquadron commander there and
with the three MiGs, is whenthey sent him to the Pentagon
and assigned him as a sourceselection for the FX and he had
Gary Willard and a bunch ofoutstanding fighter pilots.
You may have remembered Gary.
CDR Al Palmer, USN ret (22:02):
Yes indeed.
Lt Gen. Tom McInerney, (22:04):
Because he started the Wild Weasel for
the US, us Air Force in theF-100s.
Yep he sure did so.
Earthquakes surrounded himselfwith good people, and they
selected the F-15, mcdonnellDouglas version.
The biggest competitor was aversion from Northrop Grumman.
(22:28):
That well, it was just Northropin those days, and Grumman
hadn't bought them yet but, theygot the right airplane.
The Northrop was a good airplane, don't misunderstand me.
It was a high flyer and itcould boom out to well past Mach
2, but it didn't turn as welland didn't do the things at the
(22:53):
F-15.
So I spent a lot of time in theF-15 once it became operational
.
Well, because when I leftNellis I went back to Staff
College and then to the Pentagon.
I was the F-15 project officerin requirements.
Once they selected it and namedit the F-15, it hadn't flown, I
(23:15):
was working on it, theydispersed, earthquake, went to
National War and then I firstflight and then I got assigned
to Luke as a 104 F-5 DO.
(23:38):
I had German students for F-4sand I had a lot of Saudis and
the like for F-5s over atWoolley, saudis and the like for
F-5s over at Woolley.
And then I went to the Pentagonand I became the F-15 project
officer.
No, excuse me, I'd already hadthat job, but I got to fly the
(24:07):
F-15 when I was in London Onceit flew and I went from Luke to
London as the air attache and Ileft Luke three months before
the F-15s came in for the firstbase for F-15s, which
disappointed me.
But I wasn't given a choice.
The chief of staff fired theair attache and so they I got
(24:38):
selected to go.
But the beauty was atFarnborough.
They brought the F-15s over andthe test pilots knew me and so I
got to fly the F-15 in Englandand, excuse me, the, which was,
(25:02):
which was a great experiencebecause then the chief of the
air staff, sir Andrew Humphrey.
I went back to the UnitedStates with him and he visited
all of the chief and all thefour stars and he was the last
chief of air staff to fly theComet.
You may all remember the Cometwas the first passenger jet and
(25:27):
the RAF still was flying it forthe chief of air staff.
So I flew around the UnitedStates, over and around the
United States, in a BritishComet with the chief of the air
staff and of course I wastelling him a lot about the F-15
, because I was bound anddetermined, lot about the F-15
(25:50):
because I was bound anddetermined to sell the F-15 to
the Royal Air Force.
And Sir Andrew and I got alongvery well because when we came
back from that trip he said allright, tom, I want you to fly
every fighter.
The Royal Air Force has.
Every airplane.
The Royal Air Force has everyairplane.
The Royal Air Force has Ofcourse.
I went through all the fightersbut I wasn't much for the
(26:15):
airlift.
No offense.
CDR Al Palmer, USN ret (26:19):
You got to fly the Vulcan.
Lt Gen. Tom McInerney, USAF r (26:23):
I turned the Vulcan down, and I
turned it down because theywouldn't let me go to the pilot
seat.
Well, it turns out the Vulcanwasn't like most bombers.
It didn't have a pilot,co-pilot seat, it only had a
pilot seat, and so they were notgoing to let me fly in that
(26:43):
seat and be the only one incontrol of the airplane.
I should have done it, becausea Vulcan is just a fantastic
airplane.
CDR Al Palmer, USN ret (26:53):
Oh yeah, so you told them, forget that
one right.
Lt Gen. Tom McInerney, USA (26:56):
Yeah , but I got the P-1 Lightning
and you may have remembered thatthat had the engines one on top
of another.
It stayed up less time than a104, but boy did it have smash
and it could boom off and greatairplane, but in any case.
(27:16):
So earthquake had establishedfor me some very vital things.
I came back and went to was awing commander in the
Philippines and took the airdivision over in Okinawa that
Bob had had.
They converted the wing to anair division.
(27:38):
I had a wing underneath me, butthat was a marvelous assignment
.
We had F-15s then, so I got alot of F-15s then, so I got a
lot of 15 time there and Iremember the last flight out.
I got promoted to two stars outof there and so I went back as
the DCS operations and Intel forPACAF, pacific Air Forces.
(28:04):
I launched 55 F-15s come out andfour squadrons, the squadron
commanders leading each one oftheir squadrons, and the first
time anybody said anything waswhen we came back.
We went out and we did had awall of eagles, 55 eagles coming
(28:30):
across the training area.
We're using our F4s as targetsand it was beautiful to do, took
them all out and then headedhome and in the break I was blue
lead.
I said blue lead, gear down andcheck, and that was the first
(28:51):
time we talked.
Now the reason I point this outwas because I didn't care where
, what the kid's last pilot'slast name was where he went to
school, who he was married to,who his mommy and daddy were.
Any of that Everything wasbased on merit and you're
(29:15):
talking a single-seat fighter,which I grew up in most of the
time, except all the F-4 timeand the 111 time I had.
But we now are facing and, withSTARS is doing a magnificent job
.
We are now facing critical racetheory and DEI, diversity,
(29:38):
equity and inclusion, and theseare Marxist ideologies, al Bill.
We are faced with something Inever thought could happen.
Now, of course, I went throughmy career in the Air Force and
ended up in Washington and gotin television by accident
(30:02):
because of a non-profit.
I'm only saying this becausewhen 9-11 happened, I then ended
up working for Fox News for 16and a half years.
But my point is I never thoughtanybody could penetrate the US
military.
They have.
(30:24):
I just never believed it couldhappen, and I was going, before
COVID-19, into the Pentagon fourdays a week because I had a
running edge cloud company andwe can ingest every sensor on
the battle space.
Now it's changed in our daybecause you've got all these
(30:46):
UAVs.
They're pumping lots of databack in.
You've got the F-35 is just isour most fantastic sensor and
the guys at Langley stillhaven't figured it out.
What they don't really want isthe A-2 running the air tasking
order, the FRAG A2 running theair tasking order, the FRAG
(31:09):
because the F-35 ingests everysensor it sees.
But when you fuse all this dataand we had a pod over in Bagram
(31:32):
and we were ingesting from aUAV and a normal UAV, as you
know, has got a very narrowfield of view maybe 50 yards
depending on your altitude,maybe 30 depending on your
altitude this had 8 kilometers,so it is ingesting far more data
and they would land it.
(31:56):
And the reason I'm getting intothis is because we have got a
military that is changing.
But I was heavily involved uptill COVID-19 with the military.
I still am, but I'm not in thePentagon four days a week and I
know that earthquake.
I have gotten very aggressive.
(32:17):
I do four radio shows a week.
I don't do Fox News anymorebecause they fired me.
They fired me because I calledJohn McCain Songbird John.
They really wanted to fire mebecause I was one of the first
general officers to supportPresident Trump and so for those
(32:40):
years when they'd introduce me,they'd say that and, as it
turns out, I don't want to getinto it too much now, but the
fact is I've been heavilyinvolved with this critical race
theory with DEI, what it'sdoing to our military, what has
(33:02):
happened to our nation, andSTARS has been an absolute
superb leader in trying to turnthis around and get the Air
Force Academy.
I'm involved with the LincolnGroup for West Point and there's
a Calvert Group for Annapolis,but they are trying to change
(33:24):
our military.
They're trying to change ourmilitary.
CDR Al Palmer, USN ret (33:29):
They're trying to change our country.
They indeed are General, andwe're so happy to have you on
our side on that argument,because it is one that we're
facing today.
As you say, we didn't have whenwe were younger, going out and
flying every day.
I remember my biggest concernwas am I gonna get enough sleep
here before I have to turnaround and go back and fly over
the North again and, as you know, getting up every day to do
(33:52):
that?
You know you can't be weak, youcan't have doubts, you can't
hesitate, you can't not be thereand also, you can't not be
really good at what you do rightand I worry that we're losing
some of that now.
Do right, and I worry that we'relosing some of that now and if
(34:13):
we're not careful, that's a verydelicate commodity to have
today.
So what do you think, both ofyou?
What do you think Earthquakewould say if he was faced with
that today?
Lt Gen. Tom McInerney, USA (34:23):
Well , he'd say the same thing that
I'm saying, but Bill can tellyou what he'll say.
Bill Scott (34:32):
Yeah, we talked about that a lot when I was
doing interviews with him and heobviously had absolutely no
patience with DEI whatsoever.
He saw it as a very big cancer,as Tom said, in the military.
It's literally rotting ourmilitary from the inside out and
(34:54):
, of course, it is reallyhampering recruitment because a
lot of guys don't want to join amilitary.
That's all about gender, colorand having the right narrative
at your fingertips and and as myson, who, tom also, was a West
(35:15):
Point graduate years before weeven heard DEI, he said Dad, I
don't want to go to war withthese guys.
And how many other young menand women feel the same way now,
too, that you run into anynumber of veterans and probably
(35:38):
active duty people too.
That said, I am now warning myown children to not go into the
military, and these were guysthat served 20 and 30 years and
were diehard patriots, but noneof them really feel comfortable
with the attitudes andleadership in almost all of our
military services.
I might make an exception forthe Marines right now, because
(36:02):
they seem to be the one that hasresisted the DEI the most.
Over to you, tom.
Lt Gen. Tom McInerney, USA (36:09):
Well , I never talked to Earthquake
about this because I'mpassionate about the issue and I
don't like to, and with thetime I had left with Earthquake.
Since this has started, it justnever presented itself.
(36:31):
But you know, I'm on the radiofour days a week talking to
everybody.
I just did a radio show talkingabout the assassination second
assassination of President Trumpattempt and all this is related
and I don't want to get backinto those sides.
(36:56):
I want to keep it focused onthe starved side, on the
military side.
But none of what is happeningis by accident.
And President Trump when hecomes back in and God if he
doesn't come back in we'refinished as a nation.
If all the chiefs are going tohave to go, the Marine may not,
(37:18):
but the other chiefs which haveaccepted it and the chairman are
going to have to go.
Now we've never had to do thisand the only thing I do is
encourage people knowing thathopefully we're going to win
this and we need good people inthe military, al and Bill.
But we have never seen anythinglike this, that our greatest
(37:44):
threat is from within and themilitary was our last bastion,
and it's critical and that's whywhat STARS is doing for us is
so vitally important.
We're working in the MacArthurSociety and the Calvert Group,
(38:07):
but we're nibbling at the edgesand that's why I've gone public
on it and I don't want, withGeneral Bishop and that, get
stars to be where I am on thetotality of it from the whole
government.
I want them to focus on the AirForce Academy on the military
(38:32):
side of it, keep the focus onthat.
But I want everybody tounderstand it is bigger than the
military.
It is being driven by Marxistsin our government.
But STARS is leading the way onthe service academies and I
(38:52):
helped form and I'm on the boardof directors of the MacArthur
Society and I helped form andI'm on the board of directors of
the MacArthur Society.
CDR Al Palmer, USN ret (39:02):
And the important thing is, macarthur
Society is a great sisterorganization, along with the
Calvin group.
And that's a battle that we'refighting every day, almost these
days.
Lt Gen. Tom McInerney, USAF (39:14):
But one thing that you mentioned
earlier about us.
CDR Al Palmer, USN ret (39:18):
In the past we've relied on military
families particularly to be asource of our leaders,
particularly our officers.
And I'm no different.
I'm from a generation, athree-generation family, who
have all done that as aviators.
And yet when my grandsonswanted to join the military, I
said guys need to investigatethis pretty carefully because it
(39:40):
has changed a great deal.
Two of them went in, spent acouple of years and came right
back out, which disappointed me.
But there are a lot of otherswe've had on this podcast who've
had the same experience,generations of children, the
same experience.
Generations of children,grandchildren, relatives who
(40:01):
have been associated and, in themilitary senses, dependents,
like I was, who now have decidedthat they can't support that
anymore.
That is a telling problem andwe've got you're right, general,
we've got to fix that and fixit soon.
Can I mention one other thing?
I had the pleasure of servingunder Titus when I was in the
67th Attack Fighter Squadron.
We were flying F-4 Weaselsthere in Okinawa at the end of
(40:25):
the war, and so Titus sent meoff to fight the end of the war
in Wild Weasels.
He said you guys got to go endthis thing.
Well, we did.
We went over there expecting tobe there for a year or a
hundred missions, and we endedthe war and came home early,
which was great.
But then Titus had another taskin front of him and that was to
(40:48):
send us right back over toTaiwan to get into defending
Taiwan, who unfortunatelycouldn't quite as well because
they'd given all those KoshiTigers to the South Vietnamese
who promptly lost them to theNorth Vietnamese when we gave up
over in Vietnam.
So for about a year we wereover in Taiwan, standing air
(41:11):
defense alert and defending theTaiwanese from the Chinese
defense alert and defending theTaiwanese from the Chinese.
And here we are right backagain in a major almost conflict
that happened but Earthquakethrough it.
All was great with that.
He supported us, he took careof his people and it worked out
(41:31):
really well and it wouldn't havehappened, I don't think,
without his great leadership.
Lt Gen. Tom McInerney, USAF (41:37):
No , and he understood it.
When I took the wing over atClark, we still had nuclear
forces out of my wing up at CCK,and then we moved those forces
out, but, but my air did.
(42:01):
I had an air defenseidentification zone.
He did his responsibility asthe wing commander at clark and
along, and my boss, the 13th airforce commander, had had that
overall responsibility, but Ihad the assets and uh.
But that's what's changed forus and that's why what's what
you're doing now, al with stars,is so very, very important, uh,
(42:25):
and and I've been a strongsupporter of of uh rod bishop
and the whole team you guys havedone a fantastic job, and I got
the MacArthur Society to usestars as the model when we
started out, and so that's whywhat you're doing is so
(42:50):
critically important.
This election is going todetermine that.
This election is going todetermine which way we're going
to go as a nation.
Now I believe, the divine Lordis behind us, because that's the
only thing that saved PresidentTrump.
If you measure the distancebetween your ear and your head
(43:13):
and a bullet goes through there,you know that it wasn't looking
at the view graph that did that.
Once that happened, the dearLord and Bob was a very devout
guy- he knows and we're going toneed his help because I've
(43:33):
gotten very involved with howthe election was done using
cyber warfare and all thosethings.
CDR Al Palmer, USN ret (43:43):
And so, as Bob Titus, I think, would
remind all of us and it was truewhen we were younger the
services were totally apolitical.
I mean, I didn't have apolitical bone in my body when I
was flying, and if I would have, I imagine Titus would have
gotten me doing something else.
But today, you're right, thechallenges that we face, in the
(44:07):
military particularly, are notso much political as they are
ideological.
And around here in STARS, wedon't want to talk candidates
and parties, but we do talkabout the threats of ideologies,
particularly those that are ascorrosive as the ones we're
facing today.
And, general, you're absolutelyright, we need to fight that
(44:30):
and do it hard right now, beforeit gets out of control.
Bill Scott (44:34):
There are marks.
I did have a chance to seeGeneral Titus in action.
Back on April 25th we had whatwe call a heritage moment at the
Air Force Academy.
It was designed to honorGeneral Titus.
So all of the firsties thegraduating cadets class of 2024,
(44:59):
came to the Arnold Hall Theater.
I was on stage with Earthquake,I introduced him, gave a little
two minute overview of themoderator, had asked me to set
(45:19):
up and then ask General Titus,when I turned it over to him,
how about telling us aboutshooting down those MiGs?
Well, he ignored that and wentahead and spoke to the cadets
and it was brilliant and it wasall about duty, honor, honor,
mission, which is what he stoodfor his entire life.
(45:40):
And as we were coming towardsthe end of that, catten
introduced one more time soplease tell the cadets about
shooting down those makes.
And bob just kind of bellowedto the whole theater, says well,
when I got that first one, Ijust yelled, I got that son of a
bitch and the whole placeerupted in this massive hoorah
(46:05):
and the cadets absolutely lovedit then, we did a book signing
right after that and at least ahundred, probably more than a
hundred cadets lined up, stoodthere in line for sometimes up
to two hours while bob and Isigned copies of the books.
Because when those cadets wentinto the theater we gave them a
(46:27):
thousand twenty five copiesgratis of the earthquake book,
thanks to people like tommcinerney and a few others that
donated to make that happen.
Well, we felt, bob and I felt,that those kids that stood in
line for that long, those werethe leaders of tomorrow, because
(46:50):
every single one of themthanked him for being there and
they were very respectful.
A lot of them didn't show up,of course, and the few cadets
that I was able to say what doyou think about this dei stuff?
The best they could do is rolltheir eyes and just kind of
gently shake their head.
They knew what it took to getthrough and graduate.
(47:12):
But I'm telling, there's a fewothers, probably a lot of others
, that are being indoctrinatedand they're eating this stuff up
.
So thank God for STARS workingon it, but I would say the
academies, tom, you may agree,from the MacArthur Society side
of things, they're going to be areal challenge.
CDR Al Palmer, USN ret (47:35):
Well, we're busy, as you say, bill,
fighting that all the time, andparticularly now that fight goes
on.
Stars is still looking forpeople who want to help us with
that, and those watching thispodcast can help with that.
We're looking for volunteers.
(47:55):
We're looking for folks who maywant to help us with donations.
They can go to our website andtake care of that.
There.
There's an avenue to do that,but we're organized and our
function is to now educatepeople and go to action, and
it's time for a call to action,and that's part of what this
(48:15):
podcast is about.
And my thanks to the both ofyou, bill Scott and General
McInerney, for being with ustoday to reinforce that message
to the folks who might belistening to this.
Our numbers are growing on thepodcast.
We're happy about that, butwe've got a whole lot of work
still to do here and I'm so gladto have had both of you with us
(48:37):
today to talk to our STARSaudience about that.
And thanks again for being withus.
Guys Really appreciate it.
Lt Gen. Tom McInerney, U (48:45):
Thanks for having us, Phil.
Thank you.
CDR Al Palmer, USN ret (48:47):
Thanks to both of you and we'll see you
maybe in another time here wewill have more time and more
room to talk about things thatwe went over today.
And thanks again and to ouraudience.
This is Commander Al Palmer,retired.
I'm going to sign off and leaveyou with this one thought Today
(49:07):
is Constitution Day.
Do what you can do, as we haveall done, in raising our hands
to protect the Constitutionagainst all enemies, foreign and
domestic.
And we'll see you for anotherepisode next week.
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