July 23, 2025 • 32 mins
In this episode, Robert Barber dives into the chilling legacy of Ed and Lorraine Warren—the famed paranormal investigators behind America’s most enduring urban legends.
From the true stories that inspired The Conjuring and Annabelle to the ghostly encounters still debated today, we explore what made the Warrens infamous… and why their cases still haunt the world of paranormal stories.
🎧 If you’re drawn to haunted history, mystery, and true tales that walk the line between fear and faith—press play.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
A girl hears scratching beneath her bed, a
boy speaks in tongues.
No one taught him.
A doll moves without strings.
A house bleeds from the walls.
Different towns, differentyears, but always the same knock
(00:22):
at the door A man with acrucifix, a woman with second
sight and a promise.
We've seen this before.
They said evil left marks, thatdemons had rules, that proof
could fit on magnetic tape andfor decades the world believed
(00:46):
them.
But look closer.
The stories don't line up.
The witnesses disappear and theevidence what little there was
always slipped just out of reach.
This isn't just a tale ofhauntings.
It's a story about belief,performance and the power of a
(01:11):
well-timed exorcism.
The Warrens left behind a trailof headlines, horror films and
unanswered questions.
This is the shadow they cast.
I'm your host, robert Barber,and today, on State of the
(01:44):
Unknown, we follow the twistedtrail of America's most famous
ghost hunters, from Amityvilleto Annabelle, from basement
seances to courtroom testimony.
We'll examine what the Warrensclaimed, what they saw and why
the truth might be harder tofind than the demons they chased
(02:06):
.
This is the mystery of Ed andLorraine Warren and this is
State of the Unknown.
They didn't start withheadlines.
They started with neighbors, aknock on the door, a family in
(02:28):
fear, a priest who wouldn'treturn their calls.
Ed and Lorraine Warren came withcrucifixes and conviction.
He called himself ademonologist.
She said she was a clairvoyant.
No licenses, no formal training, just belief.
And that for some was enough.
(02:50):
They began in the 1950s, longbefore horror went Hollywood.
Ed had served in World War II,painted houses, studied
demonology through books andcorrespondence courses.
Lorraine claimed she had seenAuras since childhood, that she
could walk into a room and knowif something had gone wrong.
(03:14):
Together they found theirpurpose in fear.
They weren't ghost hunters, notyet.
They were spiritualtroubleshooters, problem solvers
for the faithful.
Most of their early cases nevermade the papers A creaking
farmhouse, a whisper in theattic, a child afraid to sleep.
(03:36):
They offered comfort, prayer,sometimes just a sympathetic ear
.
But they kept records, photos,notes, audio tapes.
Little by little they built anarchive and in time a reputation
.
To the families they helpedthey were heroes.
(03:57):
To the church they wereoccasionally useful.
And to skeptics they weresomething else entirely
Unverified, unqualified,uninvited.
But Ed and Lorraine knew thepower of story and in every
haunted hallway they found oneworth telling.
(04:19):
They said the devil was real,that demons had rules.
They said the devil was real,that demons had rules, that
possession could be diagnosed ifyou knew what signs to look for
.
Their confidence was part ofthe performance and the fear
that did the rest.
Over time, their cases grewstranger, darker, more cinematic
(04:45):
.
The scratches turned to growls,the shadows grew eyes and the
Warrens weren't just witnessesanymore.
They were the center of thestorm.
In their later years, long afterthe case files had turned
yellow and the headlines hadfaded.
After the case files had turnedyellow and the headlines had
(05:07):
faded, the Warrens found a newkind of audience.
They took their stories on theroad, speaking at colleges,
community centers andauditoriums packed with
believers and skeptics alike.
In 1998, I had the chance tosee them on one of their
speaking engagements at KentState University in Ohio Ed in
his suit, lorraine in ahigh-neck blouse holding a
(05:28):
rosary.
They told their tales with thecadence of confession and the
timing of showman.
They warned the audience neverto taunt a spirit, never to
invite darkness in, and theyspoke of Annabelle of Amityville
, of the things that they saidhad followed them home.
They showed videos of anexorcism that had performed.
(05:51):
To many it felt like theater, toothers it felt like truth.
In fact, my girlfriend at thetime became so frightened that
we had to leave early.
But behind the crucifixes andcassette tapes there was a
pattern of contradictions, ofstories that changed, of
(06:12):
evidence that disappeared.
And that's where our storybegins.
It started with a birthday gift, a Raggedy Ann doll,
hand-stitched and smiling, givento a nursing student named
Donna in 1970.
At first she sat quietly, thenmoved, not just shifted, but
(06:41):
appeared in different rooms.
Donna and roommate Angieclaimed notes, emerged a child's
pleading help us, help Lou Lou.
Angie's boyfriend sleptrestlessly.
Then he was scratched.
One night the doll surfaced onhis chest, fabric arms tight
(07:02):
around his throat.
A medium said the spirit ofAnnabelle Higgins had attached
itself, lonely, seeking love.
Sympathy allowed it in and thenthe Warrens appeared.
They labeled it a demon,masquerading, manipulating,
poised for possession.
They took the doll, blessed it,locked it behind glass in their
(07:25):
occult museum.
The sign beneath reads warningpositively do not open.
Annabelle became famous, a totemof terror, the centerpiece of
their museum, the inspirationfor films.
But beneath the myth, the factsare harder to pin down.
(07:46):
No hospital records, no policereports, no independent
witnesses, just the Warrens'word.
And yet the story spreadBecause it had all the right
elements An innocent vessel, ademonic deception, a household
turned hostile and a warningthat even a toy could become
(08:10):
dangerous if you let the wrongthing in.
Whether you believe the doll wascursed or not, the Annabelle
case reveals something else thatthe Warrens were storytellers
as much as investigators.
They didn't just document thefear, they gave it a face, a
name and a case number for theirarchive.
(08:31):
And the story didn't stop atthe glass.
Over the years, annabellebecame more than a relic.
She became a test.
Ed would tell audiences aboutthe man who mocked the doll
during a tour of the museum.
He tapped the glass, laughed,told his girlfriend it was all
(08:54):
fake.
On the way home they crashedtheir motorcycle.
The man died on impact.
She survived.
Lorraine said it wasn'tcoincidence, it was a warning.
The museum is closed now thedoll reportedly still housed
under lock and key, but onlineher story lives on, Even when
(09:17):
she doesn't move.
Annabelle is no longer just adoll.
She's folklore with button eyesand, like all good folklore,
she asks just one thing that youtell someone else the story.
But that's not where the storyends.
In 2025, the Warrens Museumsent Annabelle on tour.
(09:39):
Part of a traveling exhibitcalled Devils on the Run.
She was displayed in citiesacross the country San Antonio,
gettysburg, kentucky.
And then tragedy Dan Rivera, alongtime paranormal investigator
and tour host, died suddenly ina Gettysburg hotel while the
(10:00):
doll was on display.
He wasn't alone, but he wasn'tfound in the same room as the
doll either.
There was no sign of trauma, noforced entry, no foul play,
just silence and a mystery.
Some say it's coincidence,others aren't so sure.
And online theories surfaced.
(10:23):
Sure, and online theoriessurfaced.
Did Annabelle carry a curse?
Could this be validation orhysteria?
Sources and fellowinvestigators, including Ghost
Hunters, alum Jason Hawes, urgedrestraint, saying, quote his
(10:46):
family shouldn't have to readthat kind of nonsense.
Let's focus on remembering Danfor who he was, not turning his
death into some sort of made-upstory to get clicks.
Here's the truth we can hold.
Annabelle is touring again as aspectacle, a moneymaker, an
obsession.
A tragic death occurred, butofficials saw no supernatural
cause.
Public fascination andmyth-making swirled around every
(11:07):
event.
So ask yourself is Annabellecursed or is tragedy packaged as
folklore and profit?
Look past the display case,past the headlines, past the
Hollywood glow, and that's allyou have left is a story.
And for Ed and Lorraine Warrenthat was always enough.
(11:39):
A house, a murder, a haunting In1974, ronald DeFeo Jr killed
six members of his family intheir sleep Father, mother,
brothers, sisters.
One by one.
He was convicted and died inprison decades later.
In 2021.
(12:01):
The next year, george and KathyLutz bought that house.
They lasted 28 days.
They said the house changedthem, that George woke up at
3.15 every night, the supposedtime of the murders.
That green slime oozed from thewalls, that window shattered on
(12:24):
their own, that a cold,oppressive presence moved from
room to room.
One night, they said, kathylevitated.
George saw a shadowy figure inthe fireplace.
Their dog nearly hung itself onits leash.
The Warrens weren't part of theoriginal haunting.
(12:44):
They came after the Lutzes hadfled, but their arrival turned
the lingering fear into a mediaevent.
They brought a team of psychics, held a seance, invited
television crews held a seance,invited television crews.
Photographs were taken,equipment set up, cold spots
recorded.
(13:04):
One now famous photo capturedwhat looked like a ghostly child
in a doorway.
Lorraine said she feltoverwhelming darkness in the
basement.
Ed said the house was a psychicslum crawling with demonic
entities, but cracks formedquickly in the story.
(13:25):
Neighbors reported nodisturbances.
The slime and shattered glassleft no trace and DeFeo's own
attorney, william Weber, laterclaimed he and the Lutzes
invented the haunting over wineto secure a book deal.
And the deal came fast.
Jay Anson's 1977 book, theAmityville Horror, became a
(13:47):
bestseller.
The Lutzes sold their rightsand profited.
So did Weber, so did Anson.
Hollywood followed.
The 1979 film turned the taleinto a pop culture canon.
The 1979 film turned the taleinto a pop culture canon.
Sequels, remakes, merchandiseall born from that one month in
(14:08):
Long Island.
Despite doubts, the Warrensstood by their experience.
They claimed they never mademoney from the story.
But they gained something morevaluable Credibility, visibility
, a national platform.
Amityville wasn't just ahaunting.
It was a phenomenon, aprototype for every media-savvy
(14:31):
ghost story that came after.
The house still stands, newowners report nothing unusual.
But for millions it will alwaysbe that house, the one where
the walls bled, where a familyran screaming into the night and
where the Warrens becamelegends.
(14:57):
1977, north London.
A council house at 284 GreenStreet becomes the epicenter of
Britain's most famous haunting.
Furniture, moves, knockings,echo.
A girl, janet Hodgson, speaksin voices not her own.
She levitates, she growls.
She becomes the center ofsomething inexplicable.
(15:20):
She growls, she becomes thecenter of something inexplicable
.
Investigators from the Societyfor Psychical Research, Maurice
Gross and Guy Lyon.
Playfair spend over a yearinside.
They document hours of audioreels of photographs and dozens
of interviews.
Then the Warrens arrive briefly, uninvited.
(15:41):
They speak to Playfair, offerto help stay less than a day.
Playfair later claims Edsuggested a book deal.
He declines.
Lorraine says she felt somethingevil.
Ed claims evidence but theofficial record shows no
contribution, no analysis, norole.
(16:03):
And yet the film version tellsa different story.
In the Conjuring 2, the Warrensare central figures, saviors,
investigators, protectors.
Lorraine insisted she sensed amalevolent spirit.
Ed claimed photographic proofand spiritual corruption.
(16:23):
But others, including Playfair,contended they turned up once
and were asked to leave, neverformally part of the
investigation.
The skeptics had their say.
Janet later admitted someevents were staged, though she
maintained the core haunting wasreal.
Spr psychologist Anita Gregorynoted clear signs of
(16:47):
ventriloquism and trickery bythe Hodgson sisters.
Joe Nickel and others arguedthat many phenomena levitation,
moving objects had simplernatural explanations.
The Warrens, their presence wasmarginal, maybe opportunistic,
yet through film their brandovertook the case.
(17:08):
But Enfield left this legacy Ahaunting captured in thousands
of photos, hours of audio andhefty media coverage.
Hours of audio and hefty mediacoverage.
A myth inflated by Hollywood,where docs become heroes,
regardless of the on-groundreality.
A pattern presence to story tolegend.
(17:34):
Five decades later, the Enfieldcase remains one of the best
documented poltergeists and theWarrens, a blink in the timeline
, became central figures in thepublic memory.
In Enfield, as in Amityvilleand Annabelle, the same pattern
unfolds An event, a narrative, abranding and, in the absence of
(17:56):
evidence, a performance may beall that persists.
1971, harrisville, rhode Island.
A farmhouse with a dark pastand a family on the edge.
Roger and Carolyn Perrin, alongwith their five daughters,
(18:17):
moved into the Arnold Estate, an18th century home surrounded by
acres of quiet fields and along bloody history.
The hauntings began slowlySweeping, brooms vanished,
furniture shifted.
Then came the whispers Slammingdoors, cold spots, shadows
(18:40):
moving just beyond reach.
Carolyn Perrin said she feltwatched.
Her daughter saw spirits in thecorners of their rooms.
And then the seances, theoppression, the name Bathsheba.
The Warrens entered the pictureafter Carolyn reached out.
They claimed the land wascursed, that Bathsheba Sherman,
(19:06):
a suspected witch, had lived anddied there, that she had
sacrificed her infant to thedevil and cursed the property
before hanging herself.
The evidence Spotty Historicalrecords confirm a woman named
Bathsheba lived nearby, butthere's no proof of witchcraft
or infanticide.
(19:26):
Ed and Lorraine conducted aninvestigation, held a seance in
the basement.
Carolyn reportedly becamepossessed, speaking in tongues,
levitating, and thrown acrossthe room.
Roger Perrin furious asked themto leave.
They did, but the houseremained marked.
(19:48):
The family lived there fornearly a decade.
Despite the horror, they stayed.
The activity faded but neverdisappeared.
Years later, Andrea Perrin, theeldest daughter, wrote a trilogy
about the haunting House ofDarkness, house of Light.
Her account is vivid, emotionaland sprawling.
(20:10):
She praises the Warrens butalso warns not all spirits are
demons and not all investigatorsare saviors.
When the Conjuring hit thetheaters in 2013, it painted the
Warrens as brave, compassionateheroes.
It sanitized the parents'suffering, condensed the terror,
(20:33):
turned folklore into formula.
The real story is messier, morehuman, more terrifying, because
in Harrisville it wasn't justabout proving the supernatural,
it was about surviving it, andnot every scar shows up on
camera.
If you want the full storybehind the Harrisville farmhouse
(20:55):
, the one Hollywood called theConjuring, check out our
previous episode, the House thatRemembers Uncovering the
Conjuring House's Hidden Origins.
We'll link it for you in theshow notes.
1986, southington, connecticut,a family moves into a
(21:16):
colonial-style home on MeridenAvenue, seeking proximity to the
hospital where their eldest son, philip, is receiving cancer
treatment.
What they didn't know until itwas too late was that the house
had once been a funeral parlor.
They said the signs beganalmost immediately.
(21:36):
Philip's behavior changed.
He claimed to see shadowyfigures.
Objects moved, cold spotslingered, voices whispered from
vents.
His mother, carmen, said shediscovered strange tools in the
basement Metal tables, embalminginstruments, photos of the dead
(21:57):
.
The Warrens were called in.
They claimed the house wasinfested with demonic energy, a
residual evil tied tonecromantic rituals and spirit
conjuring.
That allegedly took place whenit was a mortuary.
Ed described it as one of themost disturbing investigations
of their career.
(22:17):
Lorraine said she refused toenter the basement.
After her first encounter, anexorcism was arranged.
The family said things improvedafterwards.
Years later, the case resurfacedthrough horror, first in a 1992
book by Ray Garten, in a DarkPlace, co-authored by the
(22:39):
Warrens.
Then in the 2009 film theHaunting in Connecticut, which
amped the terror, distorted thetimeline and scrubbed the
Warrens almost entirely.
But even Garton, the author,cast doubt.
He later said the Warrenspushed for drama.
When the family's accountsdidn't line up, there was
(23:00):
nothing to go on.
He said no solid story.
The Snedeker family stuck bytheir claims.
The Warrens stood by theirs.
No official records confirm anexorcism, no public verification
of the rituals, but the houseremains infamous.
The Connecticut case echoes manyothers A family in crisis, a
(23:23):
strange house and a story thatgrew more vivid with every
retelling.
For the Warrens it was anotherchapter, for Hollywood, another
blueprint, and for those wholived it, whatever the truth, it
was a nightmare they stillremember.
Because even when the evidenceis thin, the fear never is.
(23:46):
The evidence is thin, the fearnever is.
And sometimes the scariestthing of all is a story you
can't escape.
February 16th 1981.
Brookfield, connecticut, a youngman named Arnie Cheyenne
Johnson stabs his landlord todeath during an altercation.
(24:08):
It's the first murder in thetown's history.
His defense Possession.
The Warrens were alreadyinvolved.
Sort of Months earlier.
They'd investigated the allegedpossession of 11-year-old David
Glatzel, the younger brother ofArnie's girlfriend.
The family claimed David hadbeen plagued by terrifying
(24:32):
visions growling voices,scratches, night terrors.
They said he saw a man withhooves and a face twisted in
torment.
The Warrens declared Davidpossessed.
They claimed to have witnessedmultiple demons speaking through
him.
A priest was brought in.
An exorcism attempted Duringone of the rituals.
(24:55):
The Warrens said Arnieconfronted the entity,
challenged it to leave the boyand enter him instead.
Then came the murder.
Arnie claimed no memory of thestabbing.
The Warrens stepped in Pressconferences, interviews, a book
deal.
The trial made nationalheadlines.
(25:15):
It was dubbed the devil made medo it case.
The judge, however, wasn'tinterested in the supernatural.
The possession defense wasthrown out.
Arnie was convicted ofmanslaughter and served five
years.
The media frenzy was huge.
Gerald Brittle wrote the Devilin Connecticut with the Warrens,
(25:38):
not to be confused with theHaunting in Connecticut, a
separate case.
Critics called it exploitative,others believed it exposed
something dark beneath thesurface.
The 2021 film the Conjuring theDevil Made Me Do it retold the
story, but with creativeliberties.
In the movie, arnie'spossession is part of a wider
(26:01):
occult conspiracy.
In real life, the explanationswere far more human and far less
clear.
The Glatzel family itselfbecame divided.
Some supported the Warrens'version.
Others, like David's olderbrother, carl, sued for
defamation.
(26:22):
As with other Warren cases, thefacts blur.
What's left is narrative legend, profit and a question that
still haunts the courtroomdecades later Can evil make you
kill, or is that just the storywe tell when we're afraid to
face the truth?
Across dozens of cases, frommodest homes to murder scenes,
(26:51):
the pattern never quite changesA family in crisis.
A haunting, a claim, a story.
Then come the Warrens Ed thedemonologist, lorraine the
clairvoyant, neither licensed inany clinical sense, but both
certain of their calling.
They spoke with unwaveringconviction.
(27:14):
Whether you believed them ornot, that confidence had weight.
But with each case questionslingered.
Why did the physical evidenceso often vanish?
Why did eyewitnesses disappearfrom the narrative?
Why did their stories alwaysescalate just before a book or
(27:35):
film followed?
Critics say they preyed on thevulnerable, that they shaped
trauma into marketable myths,that they were performers
selling fear dressed in faith.
Supporters argued the opposite,that they brought hope to the
haunted, that they chased evilwhere others wouldn't, that
(27:58):
their presence was comfort notspectacle.
The truth, as ever, issomewhere in between.
They were early architects of agenre, not just paranormal
investigators, but myth-makers,turning whispers into headlines,
houses into legends, familiesinto lore.
(28:21):
And when Hollywood came,calling their legacy, expanded
Films, franchises, conconventions, collectibles, all
from stories whose truth wasalways complicated.
Today, their archive stilltravels, their museum still
(28:43):
inspires and their cases, nomatter how embellished, still
terrify.
A career built on fear, maybe,but fear, when packaged well,
becomes something else, a brand,a belief, a legacy.
And in the world that Warren'sleft behind.
(29:04):
That might be the most hauntingthing of all.
There are theories that theWarrens were true believers,
people of faith who walkedwillingly into darkness to
protect others, that theyconfronted what others couldn't
(29:25):
or wouldn't.
That they confronted whatothers couldn't or wouldn't.
That the demonic exists notalways with horns and sulfur,
but has something more insidious, invisible, psychological
malevolent.
Then there's the performancetheory that the Warrens were
savvy entertainers, that theircases followed a pattern because
(29:47):
the pattern worked Fear,conflict resolution, a story
that sells, and somewherebetween belief and theater
there's myth, because once astory is told often enough, it
becomes folklore, and folkloreis hard to undo.
As for me, I mentioned in thebeginning of the episode that I
(30:09):
actually got to see them once,in 1998, kent State University.
They were older then travelingfrom campus to campus, museum
slides and VHS clips in tow.
The room was packed, dark,electric.
They had a slideshow ofphotographs, video, of an
exorcism that, as they stated,showed the physical
(30:32):
transformation of a man whilethe exorcism took place.
Ed talked about demons with theease of a mechanic describing
an engine.
Lorraine spoke softly, moreemotional, more haunting, no pun
intended.
More emotional, more haunting,no pun intended.
Were they telling the truth?
I don't know, but I rememberwhat I felt that strange pull
(30:53):
between curiosity and dread.
In a word, scary.
The Warrens didn't need to proveanything.
They just needed you to listenand once you did, the story
stayed with you.
Whether they chased shadows orcrafted them, the impact remains
.
The cases may be closed, thehouse doors may be locked, the
(31:17):
tapes may have stopped spinning,but the fear it lingers, and
maybe, in the end, that's whatthe Warrens understood better
than anyone else.
This has been State of theUnknown, where we follow the
stories that haunt us long afterthe lights go out.
(31:39):
If this episode unsettledsomething in you, follow the
show on your favorite podcastplatform.
Join us on social media atState of the Unknown Podcast,
and visit our website atwwwstateoftheunknowncom, and for
deeper discussions,behind-the-scenes theories and
listener-submitted tales, joinour Facebook group at State of
(32:02):
the Unknown Listeners.
This is State of the Unknown,where we don't chase ghosts.
We let them find us.
A girl hears scratching beneath her bed, a
boy speaks in tongues.
No one taught him.
A doll moves without strings.
A house bleeds from the walls.
Different towns, differentyears, but always the same knock
(00:22):
at the door A man with acrucifix, a woman with second
sight and a promise.
We've seen this before.
They said evil left marks, thatdemons had rules, that proof
could fit on magnetic tape andfor decades the world believed
(00:46):
them.
But look closer.
The stories don't line up.
The witnesses disappear and theevidence what little there was
always slipped just out of reach.
This isn't just a tale ofhauntings.
It's a story about belief,performance and the power of a
(01:11):
well-timed exorcism.
The Warrens left behind a trailof headlines, horror films and
unanswered questions.
This is the shadow they cast.
I'm your host, robert Barber,and today, on State of the
(01:44):
Unknown, we follow the twistedtrail of America's most famous
ghost hunters, from Amityvilleto Annabelle, from basement
seances to courtroom testimony.
We'll examine what the Warrensclaimed, what they saw and why
the truth might be harder tofind than the demons they chased
(02:06):
.
This is the mystery of Ed andLorraine Warren and this is
State of the Unknown.
They didn't start withheadlines.
They started with neighbors, aknock on the door, a family in
(02:28):
fear, a priest who wouldn'treturn their calls.
Ed and Lorraine Warren came withcrucifixes and conviction.
He called himself ademonologist.
She said she was a clairvoyant.
No licenses, no formal training, just belief.
And that for some was enough.
(02:50):
They began in the 1950s, longbefore horror went Hollywood.
Ed had served in World War II,painted houses, studied
demonology through books andcorrespondence courses.
Lorraine claimed she had seenAuras since childhood, that she
could walk into a room and knowif something had gone wrong.
(03:14):
Together they found theirpurpose in fear.
They weren't ghost hunters, notyet.
They were spiritualtroubleshooters, problem solvers
for the faithful.
Most of their early cases nevermade the papers A creaking
farmhouse, a whisper in theattic, a child afraid to sleep.
(03:36):
They offered comfort, prayer,sometimes just a sympathetic ear
.
But they kept records, photos,notes, audio tapes.
Little by little they built anarchive and in time a reputation
.
To the families they helpedthey were heroes.
(03:57):
To the church they wereoccasionally useful.
And to skeptics they weresomething else entirely
Unverified, unqualified,uninvited.
But Ed and Lorraine knew thepower of story and in every
haunted hallway they found oneworth telling.
(04:19):
They said the devil was real,that demons had rules.
They said the devil was real,that demons had rules, that
possession could be diagnosed ifyou knew what signs to look for
.
Their confidence was part ofthe performance and the fear
that did the rest.
Over time, their cases grewstranger, darker, more cinematic
(04:45):
.
The scratches turned to growls,the shadows grew eyes and the
Warrens weren't just witnessesanymore.
They were the center of thestorm.
In their later years, long afterthe case files had turned
yellow and the headlines hadfaded.
After the case files had turnedyellow and the headlines had
(05:07):
faded, the Warrens found a newkind of audience.
They took their stories on theroad, speaking at colleges,
community centers andauditoriums packed with
believers and skeptics alike.
In 1998, I had the chance tosee them on one of their
speaking engagements at KentState University in Ohio Ed in
his suit, lorraine in ahigh-neck blouse holding a
(05:28):
rosary.
They told their tales with thecadence of confession and the
timing of showman.
They warned the audience neverto taunt a spirit, never to
invite darkness in, and theyspoke of Annabelle of Amityville
, of the things that they saidhad followed them home.
They showed videos of anexorcism that had performed.
(05:51):
To many it felt like theater, toothers it felt like truth.
In fact, my girlfriend at thetime became so frightened that
we had to leave early.
But behind the crucifixes andcassette tapes there was a
pattern of contradictions, ofstories that changed, of
(06:12):
evidence that disappeared.
And that's where our storybegins.
It started with a birthday gift, a Raggedy Ann doll,
hand-stitched and smiling, givento a nursing student named
Donna in 1970.
At first she sat quietly, thenmoved, not just shifted, but
(06:41):
appeared in different rooms.
Donna and roommate Angieclaimed notes, emerged a child's
pleading help us, help Lou Lou.
Angie's boyfriend sleptrestlessly.
Then he was scratched.
One night the doll surfaced onhis chest, fabric arms tight
(07:02):
around his throat.
A medium said the spirit ofAnnabelle Higgins had attached
itself, lonely, seeking love.
Sympathy allowed it in and thenthe Warrens appeared.
They labeled it a demon,masquerading, manipulating,
poised for possession.
They took the doll, blessed it,locked it behind glass in their
(07:25):
occult museum.
The sign beneath reads warningpositively do not open.
Annabelle became famous, a totemof terror, the centerpiece of
their museum, the inspirationfor films.
But beneath the myth, the factsare harder to pin down.
(07:46):
No hospital records, no policereports, no independent
witnesses, just the Warrens'word.
And yet the story spreadBecause it had all the right
elements An innocent vessel, ademonic deception, a household
turned hostile and a warningthat even a toy could become
(08:10):
dangerous if you let the wrongthing in.
Whether you believe the doll wascursed or not, the Annabelle
case reveals something else thatthe Warrens were storytellers
as much as investigators.
They didn't just document thefear, they gave it a face, a
name and a case number for theirarchive.
(08:31):
And the story didn't stop atthe glass.
Over the years, annabellebecame more than a relic.
She became a test.
Ed would tell audiences aboutthe man who mocked the doll
during a tour of the museum.
He tapped the glass, laughed,told his girlfriend it was all
(08:54):
fake.
On the way home they crashedtheir motorcycle.
The man died on impact.
She survived.
Lorraine said it wasn'tcoincidence, it was a warning.
The museum is closed now thedoll reportedly still housed
under lock and key, but onlineher story lives on, Even when
(09:17):
she doesn't move.
Annabelle is no longer just adoll.
She's folklore with button eyesand, like all good folklore,
she asks just one thing that youtell someone else the story.
But that's not where the storyends.
In 2025, the Warrens Museumsent Annabelle on tour.
(09:39):
Part of a traveling exhibitcalled Devils on the Run.
She was displayed in citiesacross the country San Antonio,
gettysburg, kentucky.
And then tragedy Dan Rivera, alongtime paranormal investigator
and tour host, died suddenly ina Gettysburg hotel while the
(10:00):
doll was on display.
He wasn't alone, but he wasn'tfound in the same room as the
doll either.
There was no sign of trauma, noforced entry, no foul play,
just silence and a mystery.
Some say it's coincidence,others aren't so sure.
And online theories surfaced.
(10:23):
Sure, and online theoriessurfaced.
Did Annabelle carry a curse?
Could this be validation orhysteria?
Sources and fellowinvestigators, including Ghost
Hunters, alum Jason Hawes, urgedrestraint, saying, quote his
(10:46):
family shouldn't have to readthat kind of nonsense.
Let's focus on remembering Danfor who he was, not turning his
death into some sort of made-upstory to get clicks.
Here's the truth we can hold.
Annabelle is touring again as aspectacle, a moneymaker, an
obsession.
A tragic death occurred, butofficials saw no supernatural
cause.
Public fascination andmyth-making swirled around every
(11:07):
event.
So ask yourself is Annabellecursed or is tragedy packaged as
folklore and profit?
Look past the display case,past the headlines, past the
Hollywood glow, and that's allyou have left is a story.
And for Ed and Lorraine Warrenthat was always enough.
(11:39):
A house, a murder, a haunting In1974, ronald DeFeo Jr killed
six members of his family intheir sleep Father, mother,
brothers, sisters.
One by one.
He was convicted and died inprison decades later.
In 2021.
(12:01):
The next year, george and KathyLutz bought that house.
They lasted 28 days.
They said the house changedthem, that George woke up at
3.15 every night, the supposedtime of the murders.
That green slime oozed from thewalls, that window shattered on
(12:24):
their own, that a cold,oppressive presence moved from
room to room.
One night, they said, kathylevitated.
George saw a shadowy figure inthe fireplace.
Their dog nearly hung itself onits leash.
The Warrens weren't part of theoriginal haunting.
(12:44):
They came after the Lutzes hadfled, but their arrival turned
the lingering fear into a mediaevent.
They brought a team of psychics, held a seance, invited
television crews held a seance,invited television crews.
Photographs were taken,equipment set up, cold spots
recorded.
(13:04):
One now famous photo capturedwhat looked like a ghostly child
in a doorway.
Lorraine said she feltoverwhelming darkness in the
basement.
Ed said the house was a psychicslum crawling with demonic
entities, but cracks formedquickly in the story.
(13:25):
Neighbors reported nodisturbances.
The slime and shattered glassleft no trace and DeFeo's own
attorney, william Weber, laterclaimed he and the Lutzes
invented the haunting over wineto secure a book deal.
And the deal came fast.
Jay Anson's 1977 book, theAmityville Horror, became a
(13:47):
bestseller.
The Lutzes sold their rightsand profited.
So did Weber, so did Anson.
Hollywood followed.
The 1979 film turned the taleinto a pop culture canon.
The 1979 film turned the taleinto a pop culture canon.
Sequels, remakes, merchandiseall born from that one month in
(14:08):
Long Island.
Despite doubts, the Warrensstood by their experience.
They claimed they never mademoney from the story.
But they gained something morevaluable Credibility, visibility
, a national platform.
Amityville wasn't just ahaunting.
It was a phenomenon, aprototype for every media-savvy
(14:31):
ghost story that came after.
The house still stands, newowners report nothing unusual.
But for millions it will alwaysbe that house, the one where
the walls bled, where a familyran screaming into the night and
where the Warrens becamelegends.
(14:57):
1977, north London.
A council house at 284 GreenStreet becomes the epicenter of
Britain's most famous haunting.
Furniture, moves, knockings,echo.
A girl, janet Hodgson, speaksin voices not her own.
She levitates, she growls.
She becomes the center ofsomething inexplicable.
(15:20):
She growls, she becomes thecenter of something inexplicable
.
Investigators from the Societyfor Psychical Research, Maurice
Gross and Guy Lyon.
Playfair spend over a yearinside.
They document hours of audioreels of photographs and dozens
of interviews.
Then the Warrens arrive briefly, uninvited.
(15:41):
They speak to Playfair, offerto help stay less than a day.
Playfair later claims Edsuggested a book deal.
He declines.
Lorraine says she felt somethingevil.
Ed claims evidence but theofficial record shows no
contribution, no analysis, norole.
(16:03):
And yet the film version tellsa different story.
In the Conjuring 2, the Warrensare central figures, saviors,
investigators, protectors.
Lorraine insisted she sensed amalevolent spirit.
Ed claimed photographic proofand spiritual corruption.
(16:23):
But others, including Playfair,contended they turned up once
and were asked to leave, neverformally part of the
investigation.
The skeptics had their say.
Janet later admitted someevents were staged, though she
maintained the core haunting wasreal.
Spr psychologist Anita Gregorynoted clear signs of
(16:47):
ventriloquism and trickery bythe Hodgson sisters.
Joe Nickel and others arguedthat many phenomena levitation,
moving objects had simplernatural explanations.
The Warrens, their presence wasmarginal, maybe opportunistic,
yet through film their brandovertook the case.
(17:08):
But Enfield left this legacy Ahaunting captured in thousands
of photos, hours of audio andhefty media coverage.
Hours of audio and hefty mediacoverage.
A myth inflated by Hollywood,where docs become heroes,
regardless of the on-groundreality.
A pattern presence to story tolegend.
(17:34):
Five decades later, the Enfieldcase remains one of the best
documented poltergeists and theWarrens, a blink in the timeline
, became central figures in thepublic memory.
In Enfield, as in Amityvilleand Annabelle, the same pattern
unfolds An event, a narrative, abranding and, in the absence of
(17:56):
evidence, a performance may beall that persists.
1971, harrisville, rhode Island.
A farmhouse with a dark pastand a family on the edge.
Roger and Carolyn Perrin, alongwith their five daughters,
(18:17):
moved into the Arnold Estate, an18th century home surrounded by
acres of quiet fields and along bloody history.
The hauntings began slowlySweeping, brooms vanished,
furniture shifted.
Then came the whispers Slammingdoors, cold spots, shadows
(18:40):
moving just beyond reach.
Carolyn Perrin said she feltwatched.
Her daughter saw spirits in thecorners of their rooms.
And then the seances, theoppression, the name Bathsheba.
The Warrens entered the pictureafter Carolyn reached out.
They claimed the land wascursed, that Bathsheba Sherman,
(19:06):
a suspected witch, had lived anddied there, that she had
sacrificed her infant to thedevil and cursed the property
before hanging herself.
The evidence Spotty Historicalrecords confirm a woman named
Bathsheba lived nearby, butthere's no proof of witchcraft
or infanticide.
(19:26):
Ed and Lorraine conducted aninvestigation, held a seance in
the basement.
Carolyn reportedly becamepossessed, speaking in tongues,
levitating, and thrown acrossthe room.
Roger Perrin furious asked themto leave.
They did, but the houseremained marked.
(19:48):
The family lived there fornearly a decade.
Despite the horror, they stayed.
The activity faded but neverdisappeared.
Years later, Andrea Perrin, theeldest daughter, wrote a trilogy
about the haunting House ofDarkness, house of Light.
Her account is vivid, emotionaland sprawling.
(20:10):
She praises the Warrens butalso warns not all spirits are
demons and not all investigatorsare saviors.
When the Conjuring hit thetheaters in 2013, it painted the
Warrens as brave, compassionateheroes.
It sanitized the parents'suffering, condensed the terror,
(20:33):
turned folklore into formula.
The real story is messier, morehuman, more terrifying, because
in Harrisville it wasn't justabout proving the supernatural,
it was about surviving it, andnot every scar shows up on
camera.
If you want the full storybehind the Harrisville farmhouse
(20:55):
, the one Hollywood called theConjuring, check out our
previous episode, the House thatRemembers Uncovering the
Conjuring House's Hidden Origins.
We'll link it for you in theshow notes.
1986, southington, connecticut,a family moves into a
(21:16):
colonial-style home on MeridenAvenue, seeking proximity to the
hospital where their eldest son, philip, is receiving cancer
treatment.
What they didn't know until itwas too late was that the house
had once been a funeral parlor.
They said the signs beganalmost immediately.
(21:36):
Philip's behavior changed.
He claimed to see shadowyfigures.
Objects moved, cold spotslingered, voices whispered from
vents.
His mother, carmen, said shediscovered strange tools in the
basement Metal tables, embalminginstruments, photos of the dead
(21:57):
.
The Warrens were called in.
They claimed the house wasinfested with demonic energy, a
residual evil tied tonecromantic rituals and spirit
conjuring.
That allegedly took place whenit was a mortuary.
Ed described it as one of themost disturbing investigations
of their career.
(22:17):
Lorraine said she refused toenter the basement.
After her first encounter, anexorcism was arranged.
The family said things improvedafterwards.
Years later, the case resurfacedthrough horror, first in a 1992
book by Ray Garten, in a DarkPlace, co-authored by the
(22:39):
Warrens.
Then in the 2009 film theHaunting in Connecticut, which
amped the terror, distorted thetimeline and scrubbed the
Warrens almost entirely.
But even Garton, the author,cast doubt.
He later said the Warrenspushed for drama.
When the family's accountsdidn't line up, there was
(23:00):
nothing to go on.
He said no solid story.
The Snedeker family stuck bytheir claims.
The Warrens stood by theirs.
No official records confirm anexorcism, no public verification
of the rituals, but the houseremains infamous.
The Connecticut case echoes manyothers A family in crisis, a
(23:23):
strange house and a story thatgrew more vivid with every
retelling.
For the Warrens it was anotherchapter, for Hollywood, another
blueprint, and for those wholived it, whatever the truth, it
was a nightmare they stillremember.
Because even when the evidenceis thin, the fear never is.
(23:46):
The evidence is thin, the fearnever is.
And sometimes the scariestthing of all is a story you
can't escape.
February 16th 1981.
Brookfield, connecticut, a youngman named Arnie Cheyenne
Johnson stabs his landlord todeath during an altercation.
(24:08):
It's the first murder in thetown's history.
His defense Possession.
The Warrens were alreadyinvolved.
Sort of Months earlier.
They'd investigated the allegedpossession of 11-year-old David
Glatzel, the younger brother ofArnie's girlfriend.
The family claimed David hadbeen plagued by terrifying
(24:32):
visions growling voices,scratches, night terrors.
They said he saw a man withhooves and a face twisted in
torment.
The Warrens declared Davidpossessed.
They claimed to have witnessedmultiple demons speaking through
him.
A priest was brought in.
An exorcism attempted Duringone of the rituals.
(24:55):
The Warrens said Arnieconfronted the entity,
challenged it to leave the boyand enter him instead.
Then came the murder.
Arnie claimed no memory of thestabbing.
The Warrens stepped in Pressconferences, interviews, a book
deal.
The trial made nationalheadlines.
(25:15):
It was dubbed the devil made medo it case.
The judge, however, wasn'tinterested in the supernatural.
The possession defense wasthrown out.
Arnie was convicted ofmanslaughter and served five
years.
The media frenzy was huge.
Gerald Brittle wrote the Devilin Connecticut with the Warrens,
(25:38):
not to be confused with theHaunting in Connecticut, a
separate case.
Critics called it exploitative,others believed it exposed
something dark beneath thesurface.
The 2021 film the Conjuring theDevil Made Me Do it retold the
story, but with creativeliberties.
In the movie, arnie'spossession is part of a wider
(26:01):
occult conspiracy.
In real life, the explanationswere far more human and far less
clear.
The Glatzel family itselfbecame divided.
Some supported the Warrens'version.
Others, like David's olderbrother, carl, sued for
defamation.
(26:22):
As with other Warren cases, thefacts blur.
What's left is narrative legend, profit and a question that
still haunts the courtroomdecades later Can evil make you
kill, or is that just the storywe tell when we're afraid to
face the truth?
Across dozens of cases, frommodest homes to murder scenes,
(26:51):
the pattern never quite changesA family in crisis.
A haunting, a claim, a story.
Then come the Warrens Ed thedemonologist, lorraine the
clairvoyant, neither licensed inany clinical sense, but both
certain of their calling.
They spoke with unwaveringconviction.
(27:14):
Whether you believed them ornot, that confidence had weight.
But with each case questionslingered.
Why did the physical evidenceso often vanish?
Why did eyewitnesses disappearfrom the narrative?
Why did their stories alwaysescalate just before a book or
(27:35):
film followed?
Critics say they preyed on thevulnerable, that they shaped
trauma into marketable myths,that they were performers
selling fear dressed in faith.
Supporters argued the opposite,that they brought hope to the
haunted, that they chased evilwhere others wouldn't, that
(27:58):
their presence was comfort notspectacle.
The truth, as ever, issomewhere in between.
They were early architects of agenre, not just paranormal
investigators, but myth-makers,turning whispers into headlines,
houses into legends, familiesinto lore.
(28:21):
And when Hollywood came,calling their legacy, expanded
Films, franchises, conconventions, collectibles, all
from stories whose truth wasalways complicated.
Today, their archive stilltravels, their museum still
(28:43):
inspires and their cases, nomatter how embellished, still
terrify.
A career built on fear, maybe,but fear, when packaged well,
becomes something else, a brand,a belief, a legacy.
And in the world that Warren'sleft behind.
(29:04):
That might be the most hauntingthing of all.
There are theories that theWarrens were true believers,
people of faith who walkedwillingly into darkness to
protect others, that theyconfronted what others couldn't
(29:25):
or wouldn't.
That they confronted whatothers couldn't or wouldn't.
That the demonic exists notalways with horns and sulfur,
but has something more insidious, invisible, psychological
malevolent.
Then there's the performancetheory that the Warrens were
savvy entertainers, that theircases followed a pattern because
(29:47):
the pattern worked Fear,conflict resolution, a story
that sells, and somewherebetween belief and theater
there's myth, because once astory is told often enough, it
becomes folklore, and folkloreis hard to undo.
As for me, I mentioned in thebeginning of the episode that I
(30:09):
actually got to see them once,in 1998, kent State University.
They were older then travelingfrom campus to campus, museum
slides and VHS clips in tow.
The room was packed, dark,electric.
They had a slideshow ofphotographs, video, of an
exorcism that, as they stated,showed the physical
(30:32):
transformation of a man whilethe exorcism took place.
Ed talked about demons with theease of a mechanic describing
an engine.
Lorraine spoke softly, moreemotional, more haunting, no pun
intended.
More emotional, more haunting,no pun intended.
Were they telling the truth?
I don't know, but I rememberwhat I felt that strange pull
(30:53):
between curiosity and dread.
In a word, scary.
The Warrens didn't need to proveanything.
They just needed you to listenand once you did, the story
stayed with you.
Whether they chased shadows orcrafted them, the impact remains
.
The cases may be closed, thehouse doors may be locked, the
(31:17):
tapes may have stopped spinning,but the fear it lingers, and
maybe, in the end, that's whatthe Warrens understood better
than anyone else.
This has been State of theUnknown, where we follow the
stories that haunt us long afterthe lights go out.
(31:39):
If this episode unsettledsomething in you, follow the
show on your favorite podcastplatform.
Join us on social media atState of the Unknown Podcast,
and visit our website atwwwstateoftheunknowncom, and for
deeper discussions,behind-the-scenes theories and
listener-submitted tales, joinour Facebook group at State of
(32:02):
the Unknown Listeners.
This is State of the Unknown,where we don't chase ghosts.
We let them find us.
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