THE ULTIMATE LOVE LANGUAGE: WHAT IF IT'S A PERSON, NOT A PREFERENCE?

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of Stepping in
Faith, where together we explorethe importance of having a
relationship with God and howthat relationship with God can
impact the relationship you havewith others.
I'm your host, Walter.
I'm joined here alongside mylovely wife.

SPEAKER_08 (00:14):
Shinea.

SPEAKER_00 (00:16):
And it is almost 12 o'clock in the morning.

SPEAKER_11 (00:19):
Yeah, so we are after hours.

SPEAKER_00 (00:23):
No, we're not.

SPEAKER_11 (00:26):
So, um or whatever time you're watching this.

SPEAKER_00 (00:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_11 (00:30):
But we are after hours.

SPEAKER_00 (00:32):
I don't know why you're using that voice.
So, um, this is episode seven.
I don't know.
And season two.
Yes, episode seven, season two.
We know it's been challenging,but we try to get these dropped
as much as possible.
We'll get back on schedule atsome point.
But thank God that we're herenow.

(00:55):
So uh I think the way that westart these out as believers is
in prayer.
And you prayed last time?

SPEAKER_11 (01:02):
I believe I did.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03):
You sure?

SPEAKER_11 (01:05):
I think so.

unknown (01:06):
Okay.

SPEAKER_11 (01:06):
If not, somebody can tell us in the comments.

SPEAKER_00 (01:08):
They will let us know.
So I will start us out inprayer.
Father God, as we come beforeyou this morning, we are so
grateful for your love, yourmercy, your grace, your
kindness.
We pray that your perfect willwill be carried out.
Let this podcast, Father God,reach those that you've called

(01:29):
for it to reach.
Holy Spirit, we submit to you.
We surrender to you.
Lord Jesus, we welcome you andallow us to be led by your
Spirit in all we do.
Allow us to be led by you inwhat we say.
Allow this to penetrate thehearts, God, of those that
you've called for it topenetrate.

(01:49):
We thank you for your guidance,your wisdom, your direction,
your understanding.
Yes, in Jesus' name we pray.

unknown (01:56):
Amen.

SPEAKER_08 (01:56):
Amen.

SPEAKER_00 (01:57):
So, what's the name of this week's episode?

SPEAKER_08 (02:01):
The ultimate love language.

SPEAKER_00 (02:04):
I guess this is on par last episode.
We touched on the gifts of thespirit or the gift of marriage,
actually.

SPEAKER_03 (02:11):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (02:12):
So I don't know, I was just sitting there and I
heard I don't like he wanted usto talk about love again.
But from this perspective, agapelove.
Uh I was thinking about it uhfrom the perspective of the five
love languages.
Uh what is it?

SPEAKER_11 (02:32):
You said what?

SPEAKER_00 (02:33):
The five love languages.

SPEAKER_11 (02:35):
He was thinking about the five love languages?

SPEAKER_00 (02:37):
The five love languages came to mind, yes.

SPEAKER_11 (02:40):
Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 (02:41):
And so what is it?
Touch.
Um what's the five lovelanguages?
Do we have it here?
What are the five lovelanguages?
Let me pull it up real quick.

SPEAKER_08 (02:54):
Was it physical touch?
Um I don't know.

SPEAKER_11 (02:58):
I don't know it off the top of my I'm sure a lot of
people out there know.

SPEAKER_00 (03:03):
They do.
But the way um so the five lovelanguages are words of
affirmation, acts of service,receiving gifts, quality time,
physical touch.
So um, with that being the case,it was interesting to me because

(03:26):
when we think of how love issupposed to look, um the way
that many of us approach thefive love languages, and I don't
I'm not necessarily saying thatthe author of this, because he
was he's a Christian, um when hewrote this book, I'm not
necessarily saying he wrote itfrom the perspective of
approaching it from a selfishplace.

(03:49):
But when you think of the fivelove languages and how it's
approached uh in relationshipsand what have you, it's
approached from a selfishperspective.
These are the way that you canlove me and the other party,
these are the way that you canlove me.
And if you're not doing thesethings for me, then you're not
loving me the way I desire to beloved.

SPEAKER_09 (04:14):
Yeah, there's a sense of control there.

SPEAKER_00 (04:16):
Yes.
And so one of the things thatwas coming to me earlier is that
sometimes um issues, as youknow, as a child, many of us, it
shapes how we approach and viewlove.
Um, it could shape what we thinkwe need, because we can begin to

(04:38):
approach love from a brokenplace or a place of trauma and
unresolved issues or unhealedwounds, a place of being
wounded, uh, which cannegatively impact your
relationship with God andreceiving and giving love from
the place God designed for us todo well.
And when we think of how God hascalled for us to love, um, and

(05:01):
we we've said this so many timesin previous episodes, it's from
a place of the spirit.
It's actually a decision thatyou have to make to operate
within that love.
And so for me, I think about umsome of the challenges that I
went through as a child, um asfar as uh some of the abuse that

(05:23):
I experienced.

SPEAKER_03 (05:24):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (05:25):
Uh you already know this.
I lost my dad when um I was ninemonths.
Um I did not find out that thethe guy that my my mother was
with uh was not my biologicalfather until I was around 10
years old.
Um I had memories of my dad.
I had memories of this man, tallman, uh sitting down at this

(05:47):
table with me.
Uh that's one of the onlymemories I have of my my
biological father.
And apparently he was like helet no one.
Like no one.
Yeah, he was like, You ain'tholding my son.
I was the son that he wanted.
And so um the experiences that Iwent through as a child, which

(06:08):
was uh extreme um uh instancesof abuse, yeah, uh, by way of my
wife, um I keep saying wife, byway of my mother's uh
ex-husband.

SPEAKER_11 (06:21):
I haven't abused you.

SPEAKER_00 (06:22):
Yeah.
And um it was negativelyimpactful because he was a
bishop.

SPEAKER_02 (06:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (06:31):
And so I'd be the worst one.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_09 (06:34):
That'd be the worst one.

SPEAKER_00 (06:36):
So I have this, you gotta be careful with your hands
so you don't lose focus.
So I have this um this uh manwho is a leader in the faith.
Um at the time he had over sevendifferent churches that was
under him, and everyone wouldalways talk about how amazing of
a man he was, but he was uhbeing physically, emotionally uh

(07:02):
abusive.
And um he, I let my sister tellit to her, you know, at some
point, but he took her throughsome things and he took me
through some things as well.
And so with those experiences,it shaped for me, it created a
negative perspective when itcame to fathers.

(07:24):
I began to look at fathers likeI don't trust them.
Yeah, I didn't trust uh fatherfigures because of what I dealt
with with him and the fact thathe had two different sides.
And that unknowingly began toshape my perspective on how I
approach things with God.

SPEAKER_11 (07:43):
Yeah, unknowingly.

SPEAKER_00 (07:44):
Unknowingly.

SPEAKER_11 (07:45):
Like subconsciously, that's how you treated God.
It's how I treated God becausemy father was also absent, even
though you had a father per se,but he was not your biological
father.
Yeah.
Um he was a stepfather who stillwas not a father.

(08:06):
He was not a father.
He was the father figure thatyou had.

SPEAKER_00 (08:09):
And well, his but uh the interesting thing with him
and how he approached me and mysister, uh, he had a twisted and
warped view of how he approachedthe relationships that he had
with us.
Um it was more from aself-gratification uh

(08:32):
perspective.
And so thankfully, you know, Iknow my sister went through some
stuff that uh uh completelyshifted the project uh
projectory of her life uhforever.

SPEAKER_03 (08:45):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (08:45):
Um, and thankfully God delivered us from that
before he did the same thing tome.

SPEAKER_03 (08:51):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (08:52):
Because that was where it was heading based on
some of the stuff he was doing.
But I said all of that to say uhthis is why it's really
important that we understand uhwe have to deal with those
things.
Because if not, then whatthings?
The trauma.
The trauma, the uh the wounds,all of those things.

(09:16):
Because even when I became afather, for some time it was
hard for me to approachdiscipline with baby girl.

SPEAKER_03 (09:23):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (09:23):
Or hear her uh be disciplined.
If she would scream or holler oranything like that, even if she
wasn't being spanked, uh, it wasjust her reacting, you know.

SPEAKER_11 (09:34):
Yeah, traumatizing.

SPEAKER_00 (09:35):
It would literally trigger me back to childhood
traumas because I know that, youknow, over the plethora of
busted lips, uh broken, I hadthe broken jaw, all of those
different things, the black eyesand then seeing.

SPEAKER_11 (09:49):
So he used to beat you.
The crap out of you.

SPEAKER_00 (09:53):
Yes.
It was yes, with his his withhis fist.
And the same with my mom and thesame with my sister.

SPEAKER_03 (10:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (10:01):
And so um, it made me become a person that was
overly loving, especially withwith her, uh, because I didn't I
I knew what he did wasn't right.

SPEAKER_03 (10:13):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (10:14):
And I didn't, the only thing I knew is I could not
be that.
But for it took a while, andeven now, uh more recently over
the past few years, to begin towork through those things and
begin to approach uh love from aperspective uh because I noticed
that there would begin, theybegin to be a pattern in my

(10:35):
relationships.
And so, and a lot of women gothrough that.
And so, because I was abused, Iended up being in relationships
that were abusive andcontrolling and how they
approached it because we talkedabout this in the previous
episode.
There's a stench that it gets onyou.
Yeah, you carry, and you attractthose people who you know want

(10:58):
to take advantage of you and allof those things.

SPEAKER_11 (11:00):
Who has those same demons to water the seeds that
were planted inside of you fromthose other wicked people.

SPEAKER_00 (11:07):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_11 (11:08):
So it's like, oh, I'm a fertilizer.
Let me fertilize this seed I seein you.

SPEAKER_00 (11:12):
And it just keeps that cycle being like that cycle
repeating, which is when we diginto bloodline curses.
And uh that's something I thinkwe were talking about wanting to
really discuss the importance ofto everyone that's listening, uh
doing research on your bloodlineand really studying the patterns

(11:34):
in your uh family tree, studyingthose cycles, because a lot of
times they continue on becauseno one ever resolved the
bloodline curse.
And how that curse got therecould be a plethora of ways.
It could be a word curse thatwas spoken, it could be
witchcraft, it can be umdisobedience, it can be open

(11:59):
doors from sin or disobedience,it could be a number of ways
that those uh curses connect toyou.
And I believe part of the waythat it becomes a bloodline
curse, if we look at just from aif you study what you know, uh
you can study the scriptures,you can look at it from a quote

(12:20):
unquote statistical perspective,it's always a repeated cycle.
And I believe that no one everdeals with it.

SPEAKER_11 (12:25):
So like your dad's an alcoholic, your brother's
alcoholic, your mom's analcoholic, or your mom's a
drugie, or your dad's a drugie.

SPEAKER_00 (12:33):
So you have some there's some type of addiction,
whether it's food, drugs, it cango from food to alcohol to drugs
to sex.

SPEAKER_11 (12:42):
And so, or you have um or there's um some type of
controlling, or some type ofthere's there's rage, there's
anger there.

SPEAKER_00 (12:52):
Um that grows and it can get all the way up to now
you got an alive people sixfamily members who's committed
murder or committed adultery.

SPEAKER_11 (13:01):
It's it's in your bloodline.
Your dad cheated on your mom,your dad's dad cheated on his
his wife, his wife, you know,just and that's when I now
you're wondering why.
Dang, why I can't be faithful.

SPEAKER_00 (13:14):
And that's why when I I looked at my bloodline, both
my mother and my father.
Um, my mother was abused by herstepmother.
My mother actually lost hermother when she was a baby.
Um, my granddad remarried, andthe woman he remarried was a
horrible person.
And she made it her duediligence to torture the crap

(13:37):
out of my mom.
And then my gr my dad, he wasabused by my grandfather uh
because I say this respectfully,but he believed my grandmother
was in those streets.
She was a pretty woman.
And so um my dad would be theone that would defend my

(14:00):
grandmother, which led to himbeing beat horribly, which in
return led to him actuallyhaving the tumor on his brain
because he would always get hit.

SPEAKER_09 (14:13):
In the head?

SPEAKER_00 (14:14):
Yes.
That consistent trauma causedthat.

SPEAKER_09 (14:18):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (14:18):
And so when you look at those things, I begin to see
a pattern.
And now, okay, me and mysiblings, you know, me and my
sister specifically, wentthrough abuse.
And so it's like, okay, we haveto stop this.
And so, but the thing is, theonly way that you can stop it
truly is through Jesus.

(14:39):
Because you try, yeah, but youstill fail because you have a
stench on you.

SPEAKER_11 (14:44):
Mm-hmm.
You recognize the behavior, youcan go to therapy, you could
talk through it.
It's like, oh, this is wherethis happened.
But then you need Jesus to helpyou close the door.

SPEAKER_00 (14:53):
Yes, because you would end up getting into a
relationship with someone that'snot good, and you may be free
from that or get yourself out ofthat relationship, but now
you've had children with them,and now they're taking the
children through the same thingthat you went through.
You're free, you're no longerdealing with it, but the enemy
still got you because now he'srepeating that cycle through
your seeds.

SPEAKER_03 (15:14):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (15:14):
Which is why once again we get back to the point
of having to submit our lives toGod so that we can break the
cycle.
You can break the dysfunctionalcycle that falls in a lot of our
families.

SPEAKER_01 (15:27):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (15:28):
So when you think of like the first thing that came
to me was John 3.16.

SPEAKER_09 (15:34):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (15:36):
And we know what John 3.16 says, for God so loved
the world that he gave his onlybegotten son, that whosoever
believes in him shall not shallnot perish, but have eternal
life.
So NLT, yes, it says, for thisis how God loved the world.
He gave his one and only son, sothat everyone who believes in
him will not perish, but haveeternal life.

(15:59):
God, this is verse 17.
God sent his son into the world,not to judge the world, but to
save the world through him.
The greatest level of love thatGod has is what?
He sent his son and Jesus gaveup his life willingly, right?
And now this moves intoEphesians, right?

(16:22):
We love Ephesians.
Men love Ephesians, and we loveEphesians because of what?
The first part of Ephesians,verse 22.
For wives, this means submityourselves, or submit to your to
your husband as to the Lord.
For a husband is the head of hiswife, as Christ is the head of
the church.

(16:42):
He is the savior of the body,the church.
As the church submits to Christ,so your wives should submit to
your husbands and everything.
That's what we focus on.
We forget verse 25 where itsays, For husbands this mean
love your wives, just as Christloved the church.
He gave up his life for her tomake her holy and clean, washed

(17:06):
by the cleansing of God's word.
He did this to present her tohimself as a glorious church,
without a spot or a wrinkle orany other blemish.
Instead, she will be holy andwithout fault.
In the same way, husbands oughtto love their wives as they love
their own bodies.
For a man who loves his wifeactually shows love for himself.

(17:27):
No one hates his own body butfeeds and care for cares for it,
just as Christ cares for thechurch.
And so, and and that's it, we'llstop there.
One of the things that we haveto understand, and we'll move
on.
Part of the issue is that menaren't able to love your wives
because you don't love yourself.

SPEAKER_11 (17:49):
And you don't love God.

SPEAKER_00 (17:50):
Yes.
And so when you think aboutagape love, right?
Which is the highest form oflove, right?
Agape love is what?
Is selfless, which you're goingto touch on?

SPEAKER_10 (18:03):
Yes, unconditional.

SPEAKER_00 (18:04):
It's uh selfless, it's unconditional, is
sacrificial, is sacrificial.
Sacrificial, I'm sorry.
Uh it's it's a selfless,sacrificial, unconditional love
that seeks the good of otherswithout expecting anything in
return.
And one of the things that Godalways dealt with me on as we
went through our journey, and itwas really me having to die to

(18:29):
self, is loving you in spite of.

SPEAKER_03 (18:34):
How you feel?

SPEAKER_00 (18:36):
He never went beyond that.
It the in spite of iseverything.

SPEAKER_03 (18:41):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (18:42):
It's like you have to learn to love her in spite
of, right?
Is what he would consistentlysay to me.
And then also to love youthrough him.
Meaning this love, this agapelove that we're getting into,
it's only possible through thepower of the Holy Spirit, the

(19:02):
Spirit of God.

SPEAKER_11 (19:03):
Because it's a fruit.

SPEAKER_00 (19:04):
Yes.

SPEAKER_11 (19:05):
Love is a fruit of the spirit.

SPEAKER_00 (19:06):
It's a part of the fruit of the spirit.

SPEAKER_11 (19:08):
And so it's hard to love someone, even love yourself
if you don't host the HolySpirit because He brings the
fruit.

SPEAKER_00 (19:17):
Yeah.
And when we're saying fruit,essentially love is basically
one of the characteristics ofGod.

SPEAKER_02 (19:23):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (19:23):
It's a part like the way that God was giving him to
me earlier on.
When you think of the fruit ofthe Spirit, it's literally you
taking upon the DNA of God andallowing God to restructure your
DNA to where now you operate howhe operates.
So now when people see you, theyliterally, they literally see a
reflection of Christ.

SPEAKER_11 (19:45):
Right, because he's made us in his image.

SPEAKER_00 (19:47):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_11 (19:47):
But if you're not made in his image, meaning
you're not born again, then youryour perception of love is
perverted.

SPEAKER_00 (19:57):
Yes.
So now your love becomesconditional.

SPEAKER_11 (20:00):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (20:01):
So when you think of um let me see just uh from a
perspective of conditional love,which is honestly the way many
people approach love, right?

SPEAKER_11 (20:17):
Uh it's you give me, I give me, you, I give you, you
give me.
It's the those those fivelanguages.

SPEAKER_00 (20:26):
And that's the challenge, right?
And the way that they theymisconstrue that, right?
Yeah.
Because conditional love meanslove that is dependent on
certain behaviors,circumstances, or expectations
being met.
It's the opposite of conditionalor agape love, right?
So conditional love is affectionor approval given only if

(20:47):
specific conditions aresatisfied, are satisfied, right?
So, for example, I love you ifyou do what I want you to.
I care for you when you behavelike this.
You deserve my love as long asyou don't disappoint me.
And so because of that, right?

(21:08):
What you look?
What you looking at?

SPEAKER_11 (21:10):
Just keep going.
You go.

SPEAKER_00 (21:12):
So some of the characteristics of that would be
it's performance-based.
It's fear-driven, right?
So performance-based is love isearned, not freely given.
Fear-driven is people may fearrejection or abandonment if they
fail to meet expectations.
And we know that uh rejection,abandonment, all of those things

(21:32):
are huge when you're approachinglove from a conditional
perspective.
Now, all of all of these thingsthat I'm speaking of is the
complete opposite of 1Corinthians 13.

SPEAKER_03 (21:40):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (21:41):
And then it's temporary.
It could fade when circumstanceschange or expectations aren't
met.
Controlling, right?
If all it's often manipulate, itoften manipulates others into
doing what the giver wants.
Fragile trust.

SPEAKER_11 (21:57):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (21:58):
Relationships built on conditional love lack
emotional safety, was you aboutto say.

SPEAKER_11 (22:02):
Right.
So, like the five lovelanguages, like focus on how
people prefer to receive love.
And First Corinthians talksabout how we're supposed to give
it.
It teaches you how you'resupposed to give it.
Doesn't matter how like how youfeel.
Because you know what I'msaying?

SPEAKER_00 (22:21):
Because from that perspective, it's the it's a
decision that's made, not from aselfish perspective.
Because when you think of agapelove, it's selfless.

SPEAKER_11 (22:30):
Yeah.
It's not respecting anything inreturn.
But the five languages teachesyou, okay, well, I have to
receive something from you.

SPEAKER_00 (22:42):
In order for me to give.

SPEAKER_11 (22:43):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (22:44):
Yeah.
Which is conditional.

SPEAKER_11 (22:45):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (22:46):
And the challenge becomes, and I'm I'm not, we're
not throwing jabs at anyone,we're just speaking on it,
right?
The challenge becomes that uhthe body of Christ, because we
aren't spiritual beings, or weare spiritual beings, but we
don't move from a place asspiritual beings should move.
The challenge becomes that weadapt uh worldly ideas and uh an

(23:12):
extra uh or uh a pagan, it's nota word.
So I'm not gonna say paganistic,but a pagan-like mindset.

SPEAKER_11 (23:21):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (23:22):
And how we approach relationships and how we
approach love, whether it beromantically or in just a
friendship or whatever, and likehow we approach it is necess is
not necessarily right.

SPEAKER_11 (23:35):
No, it's worldly.
And so like I was just thinking,and I had just put this in, um,
because while you were talkingabout the five love languages, I
was also thinking about thecharacteristics of love, right?
And so, like, words ofaffirmation is like, oh, well,
if you don't tell me you loveme, then I feel unloved.

(23:59):
And it's just like, well,biblically, I'm not required to
tell you I love you all thetime.
Like that, like I'm not requiredto validate you, would have to
know by by the spirit.
Like, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 (24:16):
I see what you're coming at.
Um, I think it's justultimately.

SPEAKER_11 (24:20):
It's like you're not depending on me to affirm you.
Well, the thing is this, likebecause I'm loving you through
God's spirit.
You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 (24:29):
Well, I I believe the thing is this.

SPEAKER_11 (24:32):
Uh or like if you don't give me gifts, you don't
love me.

SPEAKER_00 (24:36):
I get where you're coming from, but you gotta be
real careful that people don'tmisconstrue it.
And so what I would say is thisuh, as I went through the
process, when you are lovingsomeone the way God is called
for you to love them, uh, youlove them from a perspective of
not looking for anything inreturn.

(24:58):
So, for example, if God hascalled for me to be the head of
the household, um, I love youthrough God, right?
I love you through his spirit.
Uh, and in return, you do thesame thing.
But me loving you the way God isintended for me to love you from
an agape type perspective, uh,is not from the perspective of

(25:22):
me doing it because I'm lookingfor something in return for you.
It's from the perspective of medoing it because I made a
decision to do it, and viceversa.
That's why when Jesus speaks, hetells us to love one another,
right?
And so I think the challenge isyou're trying to do the same

(25:44):
thing.
But we talked about this before,the example I gave, where you
have two husbands buy flowersfor their wives.
They're both doing the samething, but the challenge, the
difference is their motive.
Your heart posture is thebiggest thing.
So it could look like you havethis couple that is madly in
love or whatever the case maybe, but their love is

(26:06):
conditional.
But they live out life just likethe other couple that loves each
other based off of a decisionthat they've made and stated
that, hey, I'm going to love youthrough the spirit, so I don't
look for anything in return, andvice versa is the same, yet I'm
giving the way that God hascalled me to give.
I'm laying down my life for you.

SPEAKER_03 (26:28):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (26:29):
So now when we move to 1 Corinthians 13, right, we
begin to live that out, uhloving each other through
Christ, right?
And this becomes a perfectharmony type situation.
So when now we both live outlove is patient, verse 4.

(26:50):
Love is patient and kind.
Love is not jealous or boastfulor proud or rude.
It does not demand its own way,it is not irritable and it keeps
no record of being wrong.
It does not rejoice aboutinjustice, but rejoices whenever
the truth wins out.
Love never gives up, never losesfaith.
It's always hopeful and enduresthrough every circumstance.

(27:11):
So, and then I think thechallenge is, right?
There is a greater, and peoplemay not like this, but it's just
what scripture says, there is agreater level of responsibility
placed on men in therelationship because the Bible
didn't say women love your wivesas Christ loved the church.
The Bible says, men love yourwives as Christ loved the

(27:34):
church.
And how did Christ show that heloved the church?
And I'm paraphrasing, the Biblesays that he laid down his life
for the church.
Right?
We become the ultimate examplebecause when you think of
Christ, Christ is the examplefor us.
His church, he's the example forhis church on how his church is

(27:55):
to live life out.
He became the example for hisdisciples.
And that's how we're to approachlove.
So you are rightly is from thespirit, but both parties should
be partaking in it and doingwhat Jesus called us to do, yet
there is still technically agreater level of responsibility
placed on the men.

SPEAKER_11 (28:14):
Yeah, no, I guess I could rephrase it and say that
the five love languages is yourperception of what you need.
And that's not what FirstCorinthians is saying.

SPEAKER_07 (28:29):
No.

SPEAKER_11 (28:29):
It's saying loving someone through God's spirit.
And God is the only one whoknows what you need.
And so you have to let go ofthose.
I need you to touch me, I needyou to affirm me.
I need you to buy me things.
I need you to do this.
I need you to do that.
But God's love doesn't requirethat.

(28:51):
It's it's I'm not saying thatyou're not gonna get gifts.
I'm not saying you're not gonnaget affirmed.
I'm not saying you're not goingto get material things.
It's just you shouldn't put anexpectation on what you think
you deserve in in your will, butGod's will for you and what you

(29:12):
he thinks is best for you.
Like you have to accept that.
Like, and it's just um like umwhat am I trying to say?
Uh I just lost my word.
Well, I mean, the challengewith, for example, let's let's
put it because like when we gottogether, you were loving me,

(29:34):
right?
And the way that God called youto, and I had to accept it, even
though I might not have likedsome of the things or agreed
with some things.
There are things that I thoughtthat I needed, I wanted.
But then when you started doingstuff, I was like, oh, I didn't
know I needed that.
I didn't know how to do that.
But why did that?

SPEAKER_00 (29:52):
But and that goes back to what we discussed in the
beginning.
The problem is because what youdid is when you came into the
marriage, you came uh into themarriage with not only
expectations, but with trauma.

SPEAKER_11 (30:03):
Yes, also trauma.

SPEAKER_00 (30:05):
You came into marriage with um expectations,
with trauma, unresolved wounds,uh, and that goes into being in
relationships with peoplepreviously that were not good,
and that goes all the way backinto marriage or the marriage
you were in, uh, your childhood,all of those things, which in

(30:26):
return impacted how you approachlife from that perspective,
which is why we had theconversation before uh where I
was telling you that how you actor the things that you said did
not match with how you act,which caused me to be conflicted
because I'm like, okay, therewas a tug of war, and a part of

(30:48):
that reason was because you werea person that was hurt.
And that is a reflection of manywomen and men.
And this is why we should neverbe in a situation of moving
outside of God.
Because when you do that, uh,the Bible says, What?
My people perish because of thelack of knowledge.

SPEAKER_03 (31:05):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (31:06):
You end up being broken.

SPEAKER_03 (31:09):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (31:10):
And now you've been bring that broken part of
yourself to something that Godhas designed for you, and you
can't even accept it and receiveit.

SPEAKER_03 (31:18):
Or see it.

SPEAKER_00 (31:19):
Or see what it is.

SPEAKER_03 (31:20):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (31:21):
And so um, this goes back to why we have to get past
just therapy, right?
Therapy alone is not going tofix your wounds and your trauma.
No, deliverance does.
Deliverance, um, healing comesfrom a spiritual perspective.
Because it it, I don't care whatpeople think, because we know

(31:43):
some people be watching ourchannel, but we're not gonna get
on that.
Anyhow, um, when I was, and atsome point we'll be able to
share our testimony, everyone.
But um when I was uh goingthrough the process of like my
conversion, and my eyes were uhuh uh opened and I was able to

(32:06):
see things spiritually, right?
And you know, we talk aboutvisions and things like that,
open visions, yeah, and meseeing you uh cry out heavily
and could feel I told you Icould feel the the like it was
like it was an overflow and itwas a heavy level of like
brokenness, and it's areflection of what was going on

(32:29):
within you, and so therapy can'tget to that.

SPEAKER_11 (32:34):
My soul.

SPEAKER_00 (32:35):
Your soul, your spirit, Jesus is the only one.

SPEAKER_11 (32:38):
Only Jesus can restore that.
Psalms 23.

SPEAKER_00 (32:41):
So many Christians too, right?
They try to go through therapyto get that restored, but you're
still broken.
They just basically take andplace a band-aid on it, right?
You're putting a band-aid on abullet wound, which is why, for
example, when I went throughtherapy, I still, even with
therapy, trying to use it, Ineeded my therapist all the time

(33:07):
because as soon as I got offspeaking to her, I was
struggling again.

SPEAKER_11 (33:12):
Because it is a bullet wound, it's not fixed,
it's not healed, it's it'sneeding healing.
Yes, it's needing to go throughhealing.
And the and Jesus is the one todo that.
He's Psalms 23, like literally,like, I want for nothing.
Like, I because I have you.

(33:32):
And because I have you, I'mrestored, I'm led beside still
waters.
I'm I'm good, I'm at peace.

SPEAKER_00 (33:40):
Well, see, I think the challenge is-I have
everything that I need.

SPEAKER_11 (33:43):
I'm not thirsting for anything.

SPEAKER_00 (33:46):
I think the challenge is this, and we talked
about therapy before.
The challenge is it's likeliterally, you have a bullet
wound.
I mean a shotgun.
Many, some of us, we got shotgunwounds.
Yeah, we have bullet wounds allover the body that are bleeding
out in multiple places.
This is really the story for somany people, right?

(34:09):
And you keep having peoplebasically try to wrap those
wounds when what needs to takeplace, right, is you have to
have those bullets removed.
The bullets aren't beingremoved.

SPEAKER_03 (34:23):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (34:23):
Then you have to go through the process of having a
process of having that sewn up.
You know, you're a nursepractitioner having that sewn up
and you you've dealt withtrauma.
Now you go through all of thosedifferent things to actually
properly heal it.
Right.
From a from your perspective inyour profession, is it going to
heal if you just wrap it?
And it's a bullet wound that'sbleeding out, that's stuck in
your body.

SPEAKER_09 (34:44):
No.

SPEAKER_00 (34:45):
It's the craziest thing, but that's how we
approach it.
And the only physician that canremove these bullets out of your
body is Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 (34:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (34:57):
Then you can go through therapy.
But when you go through therapy,I believe that, and we talked
about this, therapy should beapproached differently now.
Because therapy becomes more ofa discipled type perspective
because now your mind has to berenewed.

SPEAKER_11 (35:10):
Right.
And it's accompanied withdeliverance.
You can't have one without theother.

SPEAKER_00 (35:16):
And so that is that.
And I did we get off, did we getoff uh subject?

unknown (35:23):
I don't think we did.

SPEAKER_11 (35:24):
No, I I think it all kind of ties together.

SPEAKER_00 (35:28):
So that's you know, the the the route that we should
take.
And the challenges, like I saidbefore, like even when we
started our marriage, the theimportance of um men being where
God has called for you to be isbecause sometimes God may call
for you to walk your wifethrough some stuff that's
uncomfortable.

(35:49):
And so a lot of times, um, as Iwent through my conversion and
you was doing whatever you weredoing, um I would go to God and
be like, yo, she's doing this,she's doing that, she did this
to me, she did that to me.
And interestingly, God wouldalways focus on me.

(36:10):
But you did this, but you didthat.
You wasn't supposed to do this,you wasn't supposed to do that.
And I would see examples in thescripture on how you're supposed
to move.

SPEAKER_11 (36:21):
Yeah, and it's almost like, you know, um, like
God, I'm doing all these goodworks, but I'm not being
acknowledged.
And it's like, well, I didn'ttell you to do that.
You got you got what you gotbecause you did something you
weren't supposed to do, eventhough your intentions might
have been good.

SPEAKER_00 (36:40):
Or your heart is wrong.
Yeah, you're not supposed to bedoing that from the perspective
of trying to get um recognition,yeah.
Right?
And that was it.
Like uh the point I was making,even with words of affirmation,
the challenge with that is thatwhen you find, when you start
allowing people or looking topeople to affirm you instead of

(37:02):
God, that is a very dangerousplace to be.
Because if that that person hasthat much power over you, that
they're gonna be able to do it.
Because the words exactly theyit's life and death in the power
is literally in the power, or isin the power of life and death
is in the time.

SPEAKER_11 (37:20):
So if you're looking for someone to speak over you,
what are they speaking over you?
You want them to speak life untoyou, a human.

SPEAKER_00 (37:28):
You have to get that from Jesus.
You have to get thataffirmations, those affirmations
from Jesus.
You have to get that from Godbecause the that we see example
after example in this.

SPEAKER_11 (37:40):
Now those words could be spoken through a
person.
A person like you, like if God'susing you to speak to me and
affirm me and encourage me,that's different.
But if I'm just I'm like, youhaven't said this and you
haven't said that.
What's that scripture?
You haven't done this, so now Ifeel I feel abandoned, I feel
unloved, I feel unworthy.

SPEAKER_00 (38:03):
What's that scripture?

SPEAKER_11 (38:04):
What's scripture?

SPEAKER_00 (38:06):
I listen, uh, you know, the Roman soldier.
Um Matthew eight, five throughthirteen.
Matthew, Matthew eight, fivethrough thirteen.
Uh five through thirteen.

(38:27):
So verse five.
Um Jesus returned to Capernam, aRoman officer came and pleaded
with him, Lord, my young servantlies in bed paralyzed and in
terrible pain.
Jesus said, I will come and healhim.
But the officer said, Lord, I amnot worthy to have you come into

(38:49):
my home.
Just say the word from where youare, and my servant will be
healed.
I know this because I am underthe authority of my superior
officers, and I have authorityover my soldiers.
I only need to say, go, and theygo, or come and they come.
And if I say to my slaves, dothis, they do it.

(39:10):
When Jesus heard this, he wasamazed.
Turning to those who werefollowing him, he said, I tell
you the truth, I haven't seenfaith like this in all Israel.
And I tell you this that manyGentiles will come from all over
the world from east and west,and sit down with Abraham,
Isaac, and Jacob at the feast inthe kingdom of heaven.

(39:31):
But many Israelites, those forwhom the kingdom was prepared,
will be thrown into out ofdarkness, where there will be
weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Then Jesus said to the Romanofficer, Go back home, because
you believe it has happened.
And a young servant was healedthat same hour.
And so the point that I'm makingwith this, and what was coming

(39:51):
to me, is this right here.
It's so important that you allowJesus to speak over to you, over
you, because when He speaks overyou, his word has power.

SPEAKER_02 (40:02):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (40:03):
It has power, life-giving power.

SPEAKER_02 (40:06):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (40:07):
Life-giving power.

SPEAKER_02 (40:08):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (40:08):
And we talked about this before.
We discussed earlier how uh wordcurses become an issue because
you have people speaking overyour life and they're cursing
you.

SPEAKER_09 (40:19):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (40:19):
You have spouses speaking over each other's life
and they're cursing them.
You have parents speaking overtheir children's lives and
they're cursing them.

SPEAKER_03 (40:27):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (40:27):
You have grandparents that are speaking
over their children's lives andthey're cursing them.
You have pastors and leadersthat are speaking over their
congregation lives and they arecursing them.

SPEAKER_03 (40:37):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (40:38):
So we have to be really careful when it comes to
words of affirmation and ingeneral, the five love
languages.

SPEAKER_03 (40:44):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (40:45):
And so moving on, we've been there for a second.
Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 (40:49):
No, you got it.

SPEAKER_00 (40:52):
So, from a Christian theological perspective, right?
Agape is the kind of love Godhas for humanity and that
believers are called to showtowards God and others.
It's not based on emotion orattraction, but on a will,
choice, and moral commitment.
And so that is the differencebetween conditional love versus

(41:13):
unconditional love.
Because you hear this thing allthe time with people, I fell in
love with you.
Oh my gosh, I fell in love withyou.

SPEAKER_07 (41:21):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (41:21):
It's a feeling.
Oh, it feels so good and it'sjust great.
Like I feel like I love youbecause I'm I'm I'm drawn to you
by my eyes.
You're so this.
You have this type of all ofthese different things.

SPEAKER_11 (41:33):
You have all these characteristics that I perceive
would make me feel like I shouldbe with you.

SPEAKER_00 (41:40):
But from that perspective, one day you're
gonna wake up and it's not gonnabe there.
Because there's a differencebetween that and making a
decision and saying, I havedecided to love you, especially
when I know that I am where Godhas called me to be.
Or I have made a decision tolove my brother or sister in the
faith.
Because I know this is what Godhas called for me to do.

SPEAKER_03 (42:03):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (42:04):
And so that's really important, right?
There's a commitment that comeswith love when you're looking at
it from an agape typeperspective.
That even when Jesus was in theGarden of Gethsemane, literally
knowing everything that he wasabout to face, because of the
decision that he made, right?

(42:24):
He still went on with everythingthat he was supposed to do.

SPEAKER_02 (42:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (42:29):
But that's the type of love that God has called us
to have.
Even when it requires you togive up every part of yourself.

SPEAKER_11 (42:40):
Picking up our cross daily, dying to self.
Sacrificial love.

SPEAKER_00 (42:46):
So yeah.

SPEAKER_11 (42:46):
If you love me, keep my commands and pick up your
cross.

SPEAKER_00 (42:51):
So key characteristics once again,
unconditional.
It's not dependent on how othersact or feel, sacrificial,
willing to give or endure forthe benefit of another, uh,
selfless, focused on others'well-being rather than uh
personal gain, enduring, remainsteadfast despite hardship,

(43:17):
rejection, or betrayal.
So if we want to think aboutwhat love is really supposed to
look like, is right here.

SPEAKER_03 (43:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (43:29):
And it's reflected in uh 1 Corinthians 13.

SPEAKER_03 (43:34):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (43:34):
But the true love languages, right?
The true love language is agapelove and it's unconditional,
it's sacrificial, it's selfless,and it's enduring.
That's true love.
And so it's a choice, it's adecision that you make.
So we have, for example, uhwe've given you John 3:16, we've

(43:58):
given you first Corinthians 13,right?
We you can even look at 1 John 4and 8.
And maybe you want to pull it upreal quick and read that.

SPEAKER_09 (44:08):
What?

SPEAKER_00 (44:09):
1 John 4 and 8.

SPEAKER_05 (44:18):
1 John 4, verse 8.

SPEAKER_11 (44:21):
Yes.
But anyone who does not lovedoes not know God, for God is
love.

SPEAKER_00 (44:30):
God is literally the epitome of love.

SPEAKER_11 (44:32):
God is love.

SPEAKER_00 (44:34):
Literally.
Literally.
So if you don't know God, youhave not loved.

SPEAKER_09 (44:39):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (44:40):
And you don't know how to approach love.
And that's just what it is.
Lit it's literally understandingthat agape love is is uh the
very nature of God.
He literally just, that's who heis.
And his greatness and his life.

SPEAKER_11 (45:00):
He sacrificed his only son.

SPEAKER_00 (45:02):
Like, think about this.
Like, even when you look at ourlives, I was out here doing what
I wanted to do.
I was not thinking about God.
I was on the brink of, I was insuch a challenging place.
Um, spent going through so much,dealing with so much, uh,
struggled with depression forsome time.

SPEAKER_11 (45:23):
Um You thought you loved God.

SPEAKER_00 (45:25):
Yes.
I turned my back on him actuallybecause of what I went through
as a child.

SPEAKER_01 (45:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (45:31):
And um I always had that complex when it came to
pastors.
And I had some pastors in mylife, you know, because of what
I did.
And, you know, I grew up in achurch, I was a PK, and so I
hung out with other PKs.
So I had an opportunity to seeuh certain pastors up close and
personal.

(45:51):
And so I would always see thesame thing every time.
And I turned my back on them.
There was always like anunderstanding that there was
certainly.
Yeah.
I I had I had uh church hurtthat caused me to um think that
that was a reflection of God.

SPEAKER_11 (46:12):
Right.
And so God is supposed to belove.

SPEAKER_00 (46:16):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_11 (46:16):
And if this is love, I don't want it.

SPEAKER_00 (46:19):
And it's like they they turn their back on me, they
hurt me, they abuse me.
And I have friends that wentthrough similar situations with
pastors.
I had friends that had extremelytraumatic experiences all the
way out to um being takenadvantage of sexually.

SPEAKER_03 (46:39):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (46:40):
Men, yeah, male friends that had pastors do this
to them.
And so I was just like, bro,this is what it is.
And God still, in the midst ofall of my stuff, my
disobedience, um, me doing whatI want to do, me turning my back
on him, he still reached downand he saved me.

(47:02):
He didn't have to, but he did.
Jesus still loved me in spite ofall of that.

SPEAKER_10 (47:07):
Yeah, because he chose you first.

SPEAKER_00 (47:09):
Exactly.
And so you can't tell me thathe's not loved because I
literally no one understands howit feels to um be at that point
where you have uh somethingpointed at yourself that can

(47:30):
cause mass destruction onyourself.
And nothing anyone says canchange your thought process of
what you want to do.
But Jesus.

SPEAKER_11 (47:44):
Literally only Jesus.

unknown (47:45):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (47:46):
And I saw myself go from a space where therapy
wasn't working to going throughthe process of conversion and um
giving my life to God, not inthe church, as I said before, it
happened in my apartment, my onebedroom apartment by myself,
just me and Jesus.

(48:08):
Right.
And I dedicated my life to God,not just saying, Jesus, I
dedicate my life to you.
I accept you as my Lord andSavior, but showing and it being
something in my heart and sayingthat you're all I got.
And that's all I need.
And so um that saved me fromthose things to where till this

(48:34):
day, almost three years later,I've never struggled with that
again.
Yeah, therapy can't do that.

SPEAKER_11 (48:42):
It show can't.

SPEAKER_00 (48:43):
Only Jesus can show.
And we're not saying that we'reagainst therapy, no, we're just
saying it can't do what Jesuscan do.
He's the true healer, he's thetrue fixer, he's the true
cleaner.

unknown (48:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 (48:57):
He is the cleaner.

SPEAKER_00 (48:58):
Yes.

SPEAKER_09 (48:59):
But uh the ultimate helper.

SPEAKER_00 (49:03):
No pun intended.
So it's important to understandthat uh that that love, right?
The love language we shouldoperate in as followers of
Christ is agape love.
And um agape love has attributesuh that's produced by the Spirit
of God.
And we went through that before.

(49:25):
Selfless, placing the needs ofthat person before your own,
loving in spite of.

SPEAKER_10 (49:29):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (49:30):
It's the thing that God always told me to do.
There is a decision made to loveeven when there isn't a reason
to.
And that's what loving in spiteof is.
Are you at a place in God whereyou can make that decision to
love people even when you haveno reason?

SPEAKER_11 (49:49):
But you can only do that through through the Holy
Spirit, and you have to ask.
God, teach me.

SPEAKER_00 (49:54):
And the reality is when you're thinking about
marriage, that's truly whatsustains that marriage.

SPEAKER_11 (50:01):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (50:02):
Right?
That's truly what sustains it.
That's what sustains yourrelationship with God.

SPEAKER_11 (50:08):
Not the five love languages.
No, the five agape love.
It's agape love, it's God, thefoundation, the rock that you're
able to stand on.
Not the gifts, not theaffirmations, not the physical
touch, which a lot of people gointo relationship just because
of that.
And it stops, and then you stop.

SPEAKER_00 (50:27):
Well, the physical touch, you got to be careful
with that because sometimes itcould lead to you wanting this
so badly from this person, youget it, and then it's like this
isn't enough.
And now you start seeking itelsewhere.

SPEAKER_02 (50:40):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (50:40):
Because that becomes your thing of saying, I need
physical touch.
This person isn't here becausethey're traveling, or whatever
the case may be, or whatever isgoing on, and it's like, I gotta
go and get this from someplaceelse.

SPEAKER_11 (50:53):
Because it's your perception of what you think
that you need.

SPEAKER_00 (50:56):
Exactly.
You got to be really careful,even like words of affirmation
and all of these differentthings.
It sounds great.
Words of affirmation, acts ofservice, receiving gifts,
quality, time, and physicaltouch.
You know what's so challengingwhen I see all of this?
I see a recipe forunfaithfulness.

SPEAKER_11 (51:14):
Yeah, because if I don't get those things, then my
needs are unfulfilled.

SPEAKER_00 (51:19):
And I need it from somewhere, so I would start
seeking it elsewhere.

unknown (51:22):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (51:23):
Male or female.

SPEAKER_11 (51:24):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (51:25):
This is why this is very challenging because this
could teach you to approach lovefrom a selfish perspective.

SPEAKER_11 (51:30):
It teaches you to approach love from a worldly
perspective.

SPEAKER_00 (51:34):
It teaches you to approach love from a soulish
perspective.

SPEAKER_11 (51:39):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 (51:40):
And not a spiritual.

SPEAKER_11 (51:41):
Because it's feeding your flesh.

SPEAKER_00 (51:43):
Exactly.
This is all about your fleshbeing fed.

SPEAKER_11 (51:46):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (51:46):
Not your spirit.

SPEAKER_11 (51:47):
No.

SPEAKER_00 (51:48):
Your flesh.

SPEAKER_11 (51:48):
This is why we talk about spirit mates and not soul
mates.
I don't need you to feed mysoul, my flesh.

SPEAKER_00 (51:54):
They're not gonna like this.

SPEAKER_11 (51:55):
I need you to feel feed my spirit, cover me.

SPEAKER_00 (51:58):
They're not gonna like it.
But that that, you know, I'm notknocking anyone, I'm just
calling it what it is.
That's very soul-based, which iswhy a lot of people have
challenges.
I mean, when you listen toanyone that's struggling in
their marriages, we hear it allthe time, what, right?
He or she was not giving me myneeds.

SPEAKER_11 (52:19):
You know, I was about to say my favorite movie.

unknown (52:21):
What?

SPEAKER_11 (52:22):
Feed me.

unknown (52:23):
Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_00 (52:24):
Yeah, I know.
So the issue is that uh when youthink about it, right?
This is what people say whenthey're in counseling.

SPEAKER_11 (52:35):
I can't watch it anymore.

SPEAKER_00 (52:36):
No.
This is what people say whenthey're in counseling and
they're asking them, why did youstep out on your marriage?
Why do you feel like it's this?
Why do you feel like it's that?
It's like, oh, they don't affirmme.
They don't affirm me.
They don't spend time with me,they don't buy enough stuff for
me, they don't, you know, all ofthese different things.
They don't do anything for me.

(52:57):
There's no physical touch here.
They're not here enough to dothese things.
So I I sought this elsewhere.

SPEAKER_11 (53:03):
And we're not saying that those things aren't
important.
We're saying those things areyou can't lead with it.
Are given when God instructs youto give it.

SPEAKER_00 (53:14):
You can't lead with it.

SPEAKER_11 (53:16):
You can't do it in your own strength.

SPEAKER_00 (53:18):
You're you're that's not the and it's not the
ultimate love language is agapelove.

SPEAKER_11 (53:24):
And you can't, you can't base your relationships
with anybody off of your ownperceptions of what you think
that you need.

SPEAKER_00 (53:33):
You have to have your mind renewed.
Romans 12, 1 through 2.

SPEAKER_11 (53:37):
It's like God, if this is your will, so be it.
Let me know.

SPEAKER_00 (53:42):
But once again, I I I firmly believe that with that,
a lot of times you have to becareful because it will teach
you the love from your soul.

SPEAKER_11 (53:51):
What?

SPEAKER_00 (53:52):
Uh the five love languages.

SPEAKER_11 (53:53):
Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 (53:54):
It's it's a very, it's an extremely soulish
perspective.
And I'm not saying that that'swhat the author meant, but I'm
saying that that's how peopletake it.

SPEAKER_11 (54:06):
Yeah.
And then they're like, okay,well, you can't be mad at this
person because this is how theyshow love.
And it's like, well, I'm notfeeling it.
I can see that this might be hislanguage or this might be her
language and how she expressesthe way she loves me, but it's
not fulfilling me.
It's not doing anything for me.

(54:28):
And that's because you're being,you were taught to love a person
this way.
You're not loving this personthe way that they need to be
loved because you're not God.

SPEAKER_00 (54:39):
And then on top of that, um, that person also has
to be in a space to make sureyour mind is renewed to
receiving and to approachinglove the way that God has called
for you to do it.

SPEAKER_10 (54:50):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (54:50):
So both parties are in a place of struggle because
one is trying to love based onthat the best way they know how,
right, or based on what theythink that person needs, or
sometimes based on what how theylove.
Exactly.
They want to be loved.

SPEAKER_10 (55:03):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 (55:03):
And then the other party is going through what
they're going through.
But the issue is when we'removing away from love being the
fruit of the spirit in 1Corinthians 13, and we are
adapting to things of the world.

SPEAKER_03 (55:17):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (55:18):
So that's good.
You want to get into what youwanted to discuss?

SPEAKER_11 (55:22):
Yeah, sure.
I didn't even see all the thingsthat you were talking about, so
I just let you go.
Because you had some stuff onthere, some that you didn't tell
me about.
But it's fine.

SPEAKER_00 (55:41):
The floor is yours, ma'am.

SPEAKER_11 (55:43):
It's mine.
How much longer do we have?
When do we start?

SPEAKER_00 (55:47):
I don't know when we started.
We probably have about 15 ormore minutes or so.

SPEAKER_11 (55:52):
Okay.
Well, I guess this won't takevery long much longer.
I think the other um aspect oflove, uh because I really I
really didn't have anything tobring to the podcast this
episode today.
I mean, I was just piggybackingoff of what you were given.

(56:13):
But, you know, um I was grievingthis week because my brother
passed away.
And so um, I was walking homeand the Holy Spirit was speaking
to me because I haven't talkedto him in like a year, and then

(56:38):
prior to that, and so I'm andbasically because of lifestyle
changes, and I'll have to getinto it, but you know, I'll talk
about it at some other time atanother time, but I hadn't seen
him in like a year, and then Iget this call or meeting that

(56:58):
he's gone.
And I just was like, God, I knowthat um you called me to live a
life separate from some family,some friends, you know, you have
set me apart, and you know, it'sbeen great, also, but it's also

(57:21):
been sad and confusing becauseit's like on one hand, it's
family, and then on the otherhand, it's like, well, I gotta
do what God wants me to do.
And I was struggling, and theHoly Spirit just brought back to
me, you know, Jesus and Lazarus,you know, like Jesus didn't want
Lazarus to die, He didn't, butHe had to let him, He had to let

(57:44):
him go.
And what came to me is thatloving people, you have to love
people enough to let them go.
Even God sacrificed his own son,you know, and it was like
Shinea.
You love your family, but youhave to love them enough to

(58:08):
allow me to do my will and notyour will.
Because love is not controlling,it's it's unconditional, it's
not what I want.
Jesus decided to die on thecross, he didn't want to do it,
but he did because he loved God,and it's like, okay, well, I

(58:33):
love my family, but I love Godmore.
I love God more, and it would beselfish of me to want to have my
will pursued in someone else'slife.

SPEAKER_00 (58:50):
You have to let them make their own choice for their
lives.

SPEAKER_11 (58:53):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (58:54):
And understand that you can't be their God.
No, and that's one of thegreatest challenges to deal
with, especially, you know, insomething as serious as losing a
loved one.
As a follower of Christ, ofcourse, you want to know whether
they're they had an opportunityto get their lives right.

(59:15):
Um yeah, it's challenging to uhleaving in God's hand without
knowing, and then understandingthat there are um sometimes
family members in general ofours and former friends that
choose to live a life that goesagainst uh God or the things of

(59:40):
God, and it's nothing you can doabout it.

SPEAKER_11 (59:42):
No, there's nothing you can do about it, and it's
like you can't I can't feel badand I can't be sad.
I've I mean, he's given medreams, he's given me words um
about family members and wherethey're kind of going and what
direction.
Are going and I'm praying, andbut ultimately I can't impose my

(01:00:06):
will on their will.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:08):
Which is is it it takes a lot to get to that
point.

SPEAKER_11 (01:00:12):
But even with you and me, you had to love me
enough to let me go.
Go.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:21):
And trust.
Here's a challenge.

SPEAKER_11 (01:00:23):
And trust the process.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:24):
Here's a challenge that people struggle with when
we talk about this.
If you decided to go against thewill of God, I was still
subjected to the will of God.
So what that was meaning is thatif you would have gone and
married someone else or didwhatever the case may be, God
still told me what God stilltold me, and that don't change

(01:00:48):
what he tells me.
So that means I'm stillsubjected to the obedience of
God, even when you are beingdisobedient.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:56):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:57):
And if I be disobedient, God would judge me
accordingly, just like he wouldjudge you accordingly for your
disobedience.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:05):
And that comes into the that that now we're moving
into that place of suffering forthe name of Christ.

SPEAKER_10 (01:01:12):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:13):
So your friends and your families, when they're
coming at you and calling youcrazy or saying that you're all
of these things, because you aresimply submitting to God,
saying, I don't want youconnected to this because of
what I'm doing in your life.
And I don't need anyone stoppingwhat I'm doing or hindering what
I'm doing in your life.
Right.
That's suffering for the name orin the name of Christ.

SPEAKER_11 (01:01:37):
Right.
And it all, and that even bringsme back to the other point that
I was given with Jesus and therich young ruler.
You know, um, Jesus loved himenough.
He loved him deeply, it said, totell him the truth.
Right.

(01:01:58):
Like if you love me, you know,like if you want to follow, you
gotta leave everything.
And I know, like, I've toldyou've told, you told me the
truth when we were goingthrough, and I was like, You
didn't want to hear it.
I didn't want to hear it.

unknown (01:02:12):
Nope.

SPEAKER_11 (01:02:12):
I didn't want to hear it at all.
And so God was like, bruh, lether go.
She'll be fine.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:20):
It was challenging, you know, because it's like and
and you know, one of the thingsthat God dealt with me on, and I
know sis was talking to me aboutthat too.
It's like and reminding me,she's not rejecting you, she's
rejecting me.

SPEAKER_11 (01:02:34):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:34):
And that's what he would tell the prophets.
I forgot which prophet it was inthe Bible, but it was like
they're not rejecting youbecause you're telling them the
truth.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_11 (01:02:41):
And even when I tell my family members the truth, and
I just recently told a familymember the truth.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:47):
They're not rejecting you, they're rejecting
you.

SPEAKER_11 (01:02:48):
They're not rejecting me.
And I and I took it asrejection.
I did.
I'm like, I took it asrejection, but it's like God
told me to tell them this, andso I did.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:00):
So it's God that they're rejecting.

SPEAKER_11 (01:03:02):
Yes.
And so now it's like, well, Ihave to let them go.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:05):
And you have to remove yourself out of the
equation, which is challengingto do, but that's how God has
called us to live.
And that goes to dying to self.
Because I think uh going throughthe process that I went through
uh with us, I remember, and Iwon't get into details, but I

(01:03:26):
remember one particular nightwhere um something happened out
of a dream I had or whatever,and it was so traumatic.
I went for a drive and my my myheart was heavy, and I came back
home and I'm just being obedientto God, and God will tell you to
do things and you do it.
And I felt I felt something inme break.

SPEAKER_08 (01:03:50):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:51):
And I'm like, God, what is this?
What is this that broke?
And uh God was like, I justbroke your will.
And so that is the place thatGod is wanting to get us to.
Because when um our will breaks,now we're in a space where we

(01:04:13):
move.

SPEAKER_11 (01:04:14):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:15):
Like Jesus.

SPEAKER_11 (01:04:16):
Because it's not a space where it's like, okay,
well, I don't care, you know,that they're not doing this
anymore.
Like, because then it's like youdo care, but you're trying to
protect yourself from the world.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:27):
You have to get to that space to where you're like,
it's not even about me.
I'm just doing what God hascalled me to do.
It's not saying that you're nothuman, right?
But it's like, bruh, this, andand that's the space I had got
to at that point of like, okay,God, you know, this, it did not,
for example, it didn't hurt theway that it hurt before.

SPEAKER_07 (01:04:46):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:46):
And we talked about this before.
It's since that encounter, as Iencounter different things, I
don't approach it the same way Iapproached it before, where I'm
super emotional, super whatever.
And sometimes I have to remindmyself because it's really just,
okay, God, this is what you haveme doing.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:07):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:08):
I have to submit to this.
And so I submit.
And yes, it's challenging.
Yes, it can be tiring.
Yes, it could be all of thosethings, but God has called you
to that, and you stick to whatGod has called you to, in spite
of.

SPEAKER_11 (01:05:24):
In spite of, no matter who it is.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:27):
And that is the that's what following Christ
looks like.
That's what picking up yourcross and following Christ looks
like.
That's what it is.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:38):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:39):
So heavy stuff, but good stuff.

SPEAKER_10 (01:05:44):
Heavy stuff, good stuff.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:46):
So we discussed a lot tonight.
Um I would say this.
Ladies, please be careful.
Men too, but uh women.

(01:06:09):
Because um don't get caught upin a relationship that God has
not called for you to be in andget caught up into something
that is extremely abusive andtoxic.
And um, this is not a smilingmoment.

(01:06:34):
Um heed the red flags.
Please heed the red flags.
Men too, heed the red flags.
There's there's red flags that'sconsistently in front of you,
and you don't listen to them.
And listen to people who's beenin those situations who's trying

(01:06:54):
to forewarn you.
Like for me, I had example afterexample and situation after
situation, and person afterperson that God tried to use to
forewarn me from getting intothe situation that I was in, and
told me what was gonna happen.
And I didn't listen.

SPEAKER_11 (01:07:17):
Same.
I knew exactly what was gonnahappen.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:20):
And the stuff that they said was gonna happen
happened, and worse.

SPEAKER_11 (01:07:24):
No, nobody told me.
I just knew.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:26):
I well, I I had someone uh prophesy over me and
I didn't understand it, and hedidn't understand it at the
time.
Uh, but you know, it comes fromnot adhering those red flags, it
comes from um not understandinghow important it is.
And this is why marriage, wesaid this before, outside of

(01:07:47):
salvation is an extremelyserious and major decision that
you make.

SPEAKER_11 (01:07:54):
But I think the other thing too is we net we
didn't have the ability todiscern what voice was ours,
what thoughts were ours, whatthoughts were others, what
thoughts were the enemy, whatthoughts were from God.

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:11):
Well, see, because the church does not teach
things.

SPEAKER_11 (01:08:14):
Exactly.
So we were confused andconflicted.
And so it's like, I know I needto leave, I know I need to go
here, but I'm hearing this, I'mhearing this, I'm not feeling
this.
And it's like not listening tothat inner spirit, which is or
God, literally speaking to youor having people speak to you.
It's like they don't even teachthat God still speaks.

(01:08:38):
And so you're just going throughlife, just struggling.
Struggling.
Going through hell, thinkingthat these are your thoughts.

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:45):
And is God really trying to get your attention, or
it's the enemy speaking to you,trying to get you into something
that you shouldn't be in.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:52):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:52):
But it's very serious because it's very
dangerous.
I would say it's very dangerousto move outside the will of God.

SPEAKER_11 (01:09:01):
Yeah, so many men and women have lost their lives
from from being in relationshipsand connected to people.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:07):
That's true.

SPEAKER_11 (01:09:08):
And so many children have lost their lives because
of, and I get emotional everytime I talk about children.
Um because disobedience.
People get with people and theycreate these children with
people God never intended forthem to be with.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:29):
And then you look to God and say, God, why did this
happen to my life?
And God is like, because youchose that person.
You chose that person, you chosenot to listen to me.

SPEAKER_11 (01:09:41):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:41):
And, you know, even with me, you know, some of the
things that I've experienced andsome of the things that we've
had to deal with, right?
And even now, some of the thingsthat I see, I, you know, and
we'll we'll discuss it later on,but those conversations and
having to have some of thosedifficult conversations, it's
challenging because you'rereminded, I did this.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:05):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:06):
I did this, and you tried to forewarn me.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:08):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:09):
You tried to tell me not to, and now this is
happening, and I can't controlthat.
Now I have to be in a situationof saying, God, not only provide
us with grace, but you get intoa place where now you have to
pray that God provide yourchildren with grace.

SPEAKER_03 (01:10:25):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:26):
Because you made the decision, and we talked about
this before.
When you make covenants, nowit's your responsibility to look
after that covenant.
Not God's.
It's yours.
And we got to stop looking atGod.
And I get it, but we we're soquick to say this is God's

(01:10:47):
fault.
No, it's yours.

SPEAKER_11 (01:10:48):
Yeah.
It's your mama's fault.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:50):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_11 (01:10:50):
It's your daddy's fault.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:52):
It's their mother's fault.
It's their father's fault.
We talked about it.

SPEAKER_11 (01:10:55):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:55):
Even specifically for African Americans.
We have to dig into this becausethis ties all the way back to
the fact that many of us were,uh our ancestors were slaves.

unknown (01:11:05):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:05):
And they dealt with trauma.
And they dealt with abuse.
And they dealt with all of thesethings that was passed on in the
bloodline that has never beendealt with.
And it literally just transformsgeneration after generation
after generation, and no onedeals with it.
And the only way that you candeal with it is through Jesus

(01:11:27):
Christ.

SPEAKER_03 (01:11:28):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:28):
The only way that you can deal with these
covenants that's been made isthrough forming a new covenant
with Jesus Christ by the bloodof Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_03 (01:11:37):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:39):
So please be really for those that aren't married,
be careful.
For those that are married, Iwould tell you, God don't want
you in an abusive marriage.

(01:11:59):
And anyone that says that toyou, they don't know God.
God don't want you in an abusivemarriage.

SPEAKER_11 (01:12:09):
No, and it's saying what I was saying earlier.
It's letting them go.
Loving them enough to let themgo, to allow God to do what
they're gonna do.
You can't do nothing.
You could pray, you could do allthose things, but ultimately
they have their own will, andyou can't oppose your will on
other people.
That's witchcraft.

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:31):
Don't I am telling you.

SPEAKER_11 (01:12:34):
And that's not to say you can't pray for your
husband and you can't pray foryour wife.

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:37):
Listen to me.

SPEAKER_11 (01:12:38):
But you have to be led by God.

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:40):
Let me forewarn you, coming from my own personal
life, when my mother was firstwith the guy that she was with,
he beat on her.
He, and this is really heavy,but it's the truth, he beat on
her.
Um he tore her down emotionallyand mentally.

(01:13:02):
He pulled her away from herfamily and her friends, he
isolated her, and he made herthink that she wasn't worth
being with anybody else.
No one else wanted her.
And she left because of it.
But the church told her to goback.

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:20):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:21):
Her pastor told her to go back.
And when she went back, it wentfrom him beating on her to
beating on all of us.

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:30):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:31):
And he grew more aggressively.
And it went to him doing thingsto my sister that can never be
undone.

SPEAKER_10 (01:13:40):
Sexually assaulting.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:42):
Yes.
And so with that being the case,I am saying this because this is
serious.
This is serious.
It's a pattern of how they go.
If he's controlling, if he isgaslighting you, if he is
speaking negatively towards you,if he is hitting walls and

(01:14:05):
hitting doors, if he's throwingobjects, if he's doing all of
these things, these are, and Idon't even know why I'm going
here, but we're just gonna gowith it.
If he's doing all of thesethings, these are signs to tell
you that this is serious and youneed to get out.
I am telling you, as someone whois a survivor of it, as a child

(01:14:26):
who is a survivor of it, thatman, because it's mostly men,
men sometimes we be insituations, but it's different.

SPEAKER_03 (01:14:36):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:36):
But it's, and I'm not saying that this applies to
you as well, men, but I'mspeaking to women because men,
women being it more so than men.

SPEAKER_03 (01:14:44):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:45):
I'm just gonna let you know the best thing you can
do is walk away from that.
Ask God to give you wisdom anddon't get into it.
If you're not married and he'salready doing all this stuff,
please run.

SPEAKER_11 (01:15:00):
I think it's gonna get better.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:01):
It won't, it's only gonna get worse.

SPEAKER_11 (01:15:03):
Don't have anyone, and this is why we say you have
to have your own personalrelationship with God so that
you can discern the voices.
Discern voices, people who arespeaking to you.
Because they can speak cursesover you, they can speak things
into your life to make you feellike, oh, I'm not worthy and I
need to stay.
I'm not good enough, so I haveto stay.
I've made the decision already.

(01:15:25):
No, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:26):
Don't do it.
I'm telling you as a man who ismarried, that stuff ain't
normal.

SPEAKER_11 (01:15:31):
And telling you as a woman who's also been through
that stuff is not normal.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:35):
I don't speak negatively relationship to my
wife.
I don't call her outside hername.
We don't argue like that.
We don't we don't do thosethings.
And if I do something um that'snot right, or I say something
that's not right, immediatelythe Holy Spirit will convict me.

SPEAKER_11 (01:15:54):
He sure will.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:56):
And so you can be in a marriage where you're not
arguing like that, you're notfussing, you're not fighting,
and and vice versa.
Yeah, like you could be in thattype of marriage um where those
things are there.
It's called self-control.
And that's what a part of thefruit of the spirit.

(01:16:16):
And so God don't like for you tobe treated that way.
He don't.

SPEAKER_11 (01:16:21):
No, because you are his child.

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:23):
You are like like especially for women, there the
Bible says that when God, theBible says that when a man finds
a wife, he attain, he obtainsfavor from the Lord.
You are favor.
You are favor.

(01:16:43):
So please trust me when I sayGod don't want you being treated
any type of way.
I don't know who this is for,but that's just there.

unknown (01:16:54):
Right.

SPEAKER_11 (01:16:54):
And we say this because we have little girls.

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:57):
Yes, we do.

SPEAKER_11 (01:17:01):
And so And we've seen abusive relationships.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:05):
Yes.

SPEAKER_11 (01:17:05):
I've been in one.
Yes, and we've witnessed them.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:09):
Yes.

SPEAKER_11 (01:17:10):
Well, you've been in an abuse relationship with a
woman.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:13):
Yes.
It was interesting.

SPEAKER_11 (01:17:16):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:17):
And I've also experienced it as a child.
So it's not saying that it can'thappen in men because it can.

SPEAKER_11 (01:17:23):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:24):
It can happen.

SPEAKER_11 (01:17:25):
But the main thing, it affects you, but even when
you leave this relationship, itaffects your children.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:31):
And that's how those bloodline curses continue on.
And now you have to try tocontend for your children to um
protect them and to uh workthrough challenging situations
like that.
That's why we say don't doanything outside of God.
So you don't have to have thewisdom of God on how to work

(01:17:52):
through instances of situationwhere you're trying to not have
your child or yourself exposedto things that are not of God,
both men and women, but I'mspeaking specifically to women
because it happens to them a lotmore.
It does happen to us, and wehave our stories.
And men, the same thing goes forus.

(01:18:13):
One of the things I would say toa man, don't marry a woman
simply because you got herpregnant.
If there is a red flag, if sheis tripping over the littlest
thing, if she lacksself-control, if she gets angry
easily or whatever, if she'scalling you outside of your
name, run as fast as you canfrom her.

(01:18:36):
Because that's not God's willfor your life either.
No, that's not what God hascalled you to.
God is not called for anyone tobe in a situation where they're
being abused by their spouse.
This is some serious stuffbecause a lot of people are
going through it.
In the church, it is happeningquietly.

SPEAKER_11 (01:18:56):
And we talk about it a lot.
Satan puts people together aswell.

SPEAKER_00 (01:19:00):
Yes, to destroy.

SPEAKER_11 (01:19:02):
Just like he sends people in your life.

SPEAKER_00 (01:19:04):
The Bible says the enemy comes to still kill and
destroy.
And destroy.

SPEAKER_11 (01:19:08):
And he will do it by any means.

SPEAKER_00 (01:19:10):
Which is why we we I we can't stress enough, you have
to have your own personalrelationship with God so you can
hear the voice of God for yourlife and yield to that voice.
But especially with marriage, Iwould rather you be single and
take your time so that when youget to a point, you know without

(01:19:32):
a shadow of a doubt that this isthe person that God has called
you to be with, both male andfemale.
You know that you know that youknow that you know there is not
a sh like a doubt in the world.
I know this is who God hascalled me to be with because it
is dangerous.

SPEAKER_11 (01:19:49):
Right.
And it's not a feeling, it'sjust you just know.
Exactly.
Like even with us, it's just youjust know.
You know.
I didn't know why I knew, I justknew.

SPEAKER_00 (01:19:58):
Mm-hmm.
It is what it is.
So uh that is that, and thatgoes back into understanding the
love of God for your life.
When you understand the love ofGod for your life, it's hard to
get into situations like thatbecause you'll be like, no,
women, you'll be like, no, no,no, no.

(01:20:19):
That's not how my daddy lovesyou.

SPEAKER_11 (01:20:20):
The Holy Spirit reveals, He reveals all the
secrets.

SPEAKER_00 (01:20:23):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_11 (01:20:23):
He reveals all the secrets.
So that person you might bedating, he's gonna tell you no,
because he knows that person'ssecrets.
He knows what that person'sgonna do down the line tomorrow,
in a few minutes, in an hour.

SPEAKER_00 (01:20:36):
It's that we we just don't pay attention to the gut
feelings.
We don't pay attention to thatthing deep down inside.

SPEAKER_11 (01:20:43):
Because they don't be there, it's not taught
because it we're taught to gooff of facts.
We're taught to go off of whatwe see with our natural eye.

SPEAKER_00 (01:20:51):
Interestingly, look at this, and I think my wife can
attest, but I'll speak formyself.
I had plethora of quote unquotegut feelings of telling me, run.
Same.
Run.
And I did not listen.
And then when I wasn't listeningto the spirit of God that was
trying to speak to me, right?

(01:21:12):
Now I have people that God issending to me.
Don't marry her.
Look, don't do that, don't bewith her, don't be in that
relationship.

SPEAKER_11 (01:21:20):
My entire body was convulsing.

SPEAKER_00 (01:21:22):
Don't do it.
And we don't listen.

SPEAKER_11 (01:21:25):
Don't do this.
And I was like, uh, but I foughtthrough it because I was already
there that day.

SPEAKER_00 (01:21:31):
The thing is, I was so far removed from a church
where I had leaders who trulyknew God.
I was in charismatic churcheswhere you taught the basic
stuff.
You're not, you don't, you'renot teach, you're not really
teaching how to hear the voiceof God.
There's not any uh examples.

(01:21:53):
There's not, they don't, they'renot flowing within the
prophetic.
They don't truly believe, theyspeak on it, but they don't
truly believe in the gifts ofthe spirit.
They don't do those things.
Because as a leader, you shouldbe able to see something and
say, that you're about to make adecision, don't do it.

SPEAKER_11 (01:22:09):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:22:10):
Don't make that decision.

SPEAKER_11 (01:22:11):
Or you have elders who see what's going on, but
they don't say anything.

SPEAKER_00 (01:22:16):
Exactly.
I know that was for me.
Actually, and I'll I'll I'llwe'll we'll get ready to uh wrap
this up.
Actually, for me, I take thatback because I remember Pastor
Jermaine had a conversation withme.
He pulled me to the side and hesaid, I cannot in good faith
marry you.

SPEAKER_03 (01:22:35):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:22:35):
He said that um I remember it like it was
yesterday.
He said, What I see in thistherapy, because he took me uh
and her through therapy, and myuh and his wife was there,
amazing woman.
He said, I see you takingaccountability for the stuff
that you're going you you'vedone and her blaming you.
And that is a major red flag.

SPEAKER_08 (01:22:54):
Same.

SPEAKER_00 (01:22:54):
And I am telling you, I remember him telling me
this.
He said, I am telling you thatwhatever you do, I know that you
have these things going on.
I know that she's pregnant, Iknow this stuff, but whatever
you do, do not marry her.

SPEAKER_11 (01:23:08):
Same thing in the same counseling set it.

SPEAKER_00 (01:23:11):
And I did not listen.
Same.
Well, and when he found out thatwe went through with it, I could
see on his face when he saw me,he was broken for me.

SPEAKER_09 (01:23:23):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:23:23):
He was mourning for me because he knew what I was
about to go through.
And I went through it.

SPEAKER_09 (01:23:29):
Hell.

SPEAKER_00 (01:23:30):
I went through it.
And it was the stench that wespeak of.
Now we look at the spiritualperspective.
The stench is there, right?
And so now I'm going through thevery, I know this, and I told
you this.
The very same things,interestingly speaking, the very
same things that my mom'sex-husband spoke over me when he

(01:23:51):
would attack me verbally and saythose things, they started
saying the same thing.

SPEAKER_03 (01:23:56):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:23:56):
The same words, the same insults over and over
again.
Uh calling out um call Nino, thethe and this is gonna be a very
challenging episode for somepeople, but it needs to be
heard.
The the calling you stupid,calling you worthless, calling
you a loser, um, making them uhmocking the things that you went

(01:24:20):
through as a child, uh, blamingyou for it, all of those
different things.
Yeah, that ain't God.
That's not God, that's nothealthy.
That's demonic.
That's demonic.
It's not how God is called.

SPEAKER_11 (01:24:32):
It's to break your spirit, it's to break your soul,
to fracture your soul.

SPEAKER_00 (01:24:37):
Now look at this.
The same way my mom had someonesaying that you need to stay,
the same people at the churchwere saying the same thing to
me, right?
Or in a different situation.
Yes, God don't like divorce.
Yes, well, God never put ittogether.

SPEAKER_10 (01:24:51):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (01:24:53):
God never put that marriage together.
You put that marriage together.

unknown (01:24:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:24:57):
Stop listening to these people when you put that
marriage together.
You put it together.
God didn't put it together.
You think you think God, onceyou've gone through that, women,
men, He don't.
He has greater for you.
He loves you too much to put youinto a situation where someone
is tearing you down over andover and over and over again.

(01:25:22):
And the church has to do abetter job at teaching us the
truth.

SPEAKER_11 (01:25:28):
No, because I think that you can just pray it away.

SPEAKER_00 (01:25:31):
You can.

SPEAKER_11 (01:25:31):
But you can't.
It's not, they don't even prayit away, they just get
complacent.

SPEAKER_00 (01:25:36):
In good faith, I could never tell any woman, and
this is I I heard the the mantalk about this, and we heard
him say this.
If he finds out that a woman isbeing abused and she calls and
then she gets advice from him,he would tell her, run as far as
you can away from that person.
That's what we need to get to,including the church.

SPEAKER_10 (01:25:56):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (01:25:56):
And we have some that are doing it, we have some
that are starting to speak outon it.

SPEAKER_10 (01:26:00):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (01:26:01):
But that's that.
So my prayers are with you allthat you would literally take
all of these episodes that Godhas placed on us to do.
I don't, I I I was not expectingto do that tonight.
I was expecting to end.

SPEAKER_11 (01:26:15):
No, it's it's exactly the truth.
Same with me.
Same elders in the church.
Hey, he's abusing you, just godownstairs and lock the door.
Huh?

unknown (01:26:25):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_11 (01:26:26):
What do you mean?
Go downstairs and lock the door.
I'm in the same house.
I'm in the same place.
Why?

SPEAKER_00 (01:26:33):
That's the challenge.

SPEAKER_11 (01:26:35):
Like, it don't make any sense.
And then you have people withchurch urgent wondering why they
don't give their life to Christ.

SPEAKER_00 (01:26:42):
Because of the challenge is this.
Grandma went through it.
Granddad went through it.

SPEAKER_11 (01:26:48):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (01:26:48):
Our uncles went through it.
Our aunts went through it.

SPEAKER_11 (01:26:50):
No, my entire family, all the women in my
life.

SPEAKER_00 (01:26:53):
They all go through it, so now they they see it as
being something that's normal.

SPEAKER_11 (01:26:56):
My grandma, my great grandma, my mom, my aunt, my
cousins.

SPEAKER_00 (01:27:02):
Now, I would say with my uh, she's not my
biological grandma, but mygrandma that my granddad was
married to when he passed away.
You know, she's like, bruh, Iain't having it.
You got the wrong one, bruh,bruh.
And and you know, that's justwho her attitude was like, I'm

(01:27:23):
not having it.
You're not gonna do that to me.
I did all of this, and you'renot gonna do that to me.
And so I don't, and you know,not saying that my my granddad
was abusive, I don't think hewas, but um, he, you know, she
would not even like go for it atall.
She was just, but it's becauseuh she talked to me, and
interestingly, uh, with herstory, her uh her mom was rough

(01:27:48):
around the edges, but her dadwas super loving.
Yeah, and so because of that,uh, you know, she didn't have
quote unquote daddy issues, yes,so it created in her a
confidence, an identity, yes,and so uh that's why it's
important as men that we knowGod and that we have a

(01:28:10):
relationship with God so we canlove our daughters right, yeah,
so they can form their identity.

SPEAKER_11 (01:28:16):
But not only that, in your in your sons, but not
only that, um how I love you andhow I treat you, they're
watching that.

SPEAKER_10 (01:28:26):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (01:28:26):
So if I treat you wrong, if I don't love you
right, it's it can be negativelyimpactful on them.

SPEAKER_11 (01:28:33):
Yeah.
They'll either choose someonejust like you or believe that
they deserve it just like me, orget resentful for me, of me not
sticking up, or you know, it'sjust it could now it's repeating
that cycle.

SPEAKER_00 (01:28:48):
That's why it's so much responsibility placed on
it, but I know we got off, sowe're gonna let it be that.

SPEAKER_11 (01:28:54):
No, because we're gonna have another conversation
about this.

SPEAKER_00 (01:28:58):
So um, that's everything.
Anything else you want to addtonight?

SPEAKER_11 (01:29:02):
No, babe.
I think we we can talk aboutthis um in another episode.

SPEAKER_00 (01:29:07):
Well, we pray this has been a blessing to you.
I don't know who that was for.
Um, I was not expecting to gothere, but we did.
My prayers are with you, mywife's prayers are with you.
We appreciate you all.

SPEAKER_11 (01:29:17):
Um, you are not alone.

SPEAKER_00 (01:29:19):
No, you're not.
We all have stuff that we we'vedealt with, we've gone through.
Yes, and God has kept us.

SPEAKER_11 (01:29:25):
God has kept us tremendously.

SPEAKER_00 (01:29:26):
Yeah, I told you.

SPEAKER_11 (01:29:28):
He has had our his hand on us.

SPEAKER_00 (01:29:31):
I remember telling a uh, and I'll go after this.
I remember telling a male friendof mine my my testimony.

SPEAKER_02 (01:29:36):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:29:37):
I went of what I went through as a child.

SPEAKER_02 (01:29:38):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:29:39):
And in detail.
And he was like, bro, he's like,I'm surprised you're still here.

SPEAKER_08 (01:29:46):
Same.

SPEAKER_00 (01:29:47):
Like, I can't believe you're still here.
Because he's like, many men inthat situation would have
literally ended it.

SPEAKER_08 (01:29:54):
Ended that.

SPEAKER_00 (01:29:55):
Because of the amount.
And he's like, I don't thinkyou, I yeah, he's like, I don't
think you realize how strong youare to have walked through that.

SPEAKER_11 (01:30:03):
And when you go back and you and when we've talked to
each other about the thingswe've gone through, it's like,
bruh, yeah, how did you gethere?

SPEAKER_00 (01:30:12):
The grace of God kept us.
I'm talking uh abuse everysingle day.

SPEAKER_02 (01:30:18):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:30:19):
And you, you know, it as a seven-year-old child,
uh, six-year-old child, you'retrying to process through your
mind, yeah.
Um, I gotta go through thisuntil I'm 18.

SPEAKER_11 (01:30:30):
Yeah, for me, I don't even remember.

unknown (01:30:32):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:30:34):
Some stuff I don't that my sister brings back to my
attention.

SPEAKER_02 (01:30:37):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:30:38):
Uh, you know, there's certain things that I
blocked out that's that siswould bring back to my attention
that we went through and that wedealt with.
Um, but even now, like I don'thate him.
He's no longer here.
He actually, my mom's ex-husbandpassed away when he was like 50
something years old.

SPEAKER_01 (01:30:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:30:56):
Or something like that.
He passed away young.

SPEAKER_01 (01:30:58):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:30:59):
And I know where he is, and it's not a good place.
But um, and it's not even what Iwished, it's just, you know, for
him, and this is the thing thatwe're saying, and we gotta go.
But the point that we weremaking, in many cases, and I'm
not saying it's not possible,but in many cases, they never
change.

SPEAKER_08 (01:31:18):
No.

SPEAKER_00 (01:31:19):
Because he never changed.
He continued this as far as thevictimization of children and
all of these different things,he continues.

SPEAKER_11 (01:31:27):
They don't change because they don't have
consequences.

SPEAKER_00 (01:31:29):
Yeah.
He continued this until hepassed away.

SPEAKER_11 (01:31:32):
Until they have overt consequences, people
don't, they don't change.

SPEAKER_00 (01:31:36):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_11 (01:31:37):
They just continue the behavior.

SPEAKER_00 (01:31:39):
This is why we tell you you have to really be
careful of who you do life with.

SPEAKER_11 (01:31:43):
Yes.
Don't and and and even if youthink you want to talk to a
person, look at their past, lookat their family, look at their
their do they have children?
Have they been married before?
And more importantly, talk toGod.
But you can see, you can seewhat your natural acts study
patterns.
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (01:32:02):
And we gotta get, we gotta, we gotta look at
patterns, even if our in uh inour own lives.

SPEAKER_10 (01:32:06):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (01:32:07):
Start studying the patterns of your bloodline so
you can see what you're dealingwith.
Because the man of God talkedabout this.
I forgot his name, but he talkedabout how they'll go into the
house and they try to clean aroom, but they don't deal with
the stronghold, the one that wasin Haiti.

SPEAKER_11 (01:32:22):
Yeah, the um uh last name is Brever, I believe.
A brewer, brewer.

SPEAKER_00 (01:32:28):
And he talked about how they don't deal with the
strongman, and that's theproblem.
We're not dealing with thestrongman.
We're trying to clean the rooms,but we're not dealing with the
strongman.
Yeah, and that's how you that'show you find freedom.
You gotta deal with the strongman first.

SPEAKER_11 (01:32:42):
Right, which is therapy is the I'm cleaning my
room.
I'm cleaning my room, but Ihaven't delivered myself from
the person in the house.

SPEAKER_00 (01:32:51):
There are, you know.

SPEAKER_11 (01:32:52):
That keeps it being dirty.

SPEAKER_00 (01:32:55):
I went through therapy, right?

SPEAKER_11 (01:32:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:32:57):
And um there were instances and situations that as
I went through prayer, yeah,because I would go through
prayer consistently every day.
God would tell me, okay, I wantyou to pray about this.
Yeah, I'm about to take youthrough a healing session.
And there were things that werebrought back to my attention
that happened as a child, yes,that I compartmentalized because

(01:33:21):
it was so traumatic.
Yes, that God brought broughtback up.
Yes, that I had to deal with.
That sometimes therapy doesn'tbring you, uh bring out of you.

SPEAKER_11 (01:33:30):
And even if you do get those memories back, you
have to give it to God.
God is like, I'm bringing thisback to you so I can give it to
you.
A lot of times when you're intherapy, something comes back to
your recollection.
But when God does the healing,you still get those same
feelings, those same emotionsthat you had in that moment.

SPEAKER_00 (01:33:51):
Well, see, it was so practical because as I was going
through those healing uhsessions and going through
healing.

SPEAKER_11 (01:33:57):
For me, anyway, I guess I can't speak for you.

SPEAKER_00 (01:33:59):
Yeah, I would say I would be taken through this,
right?
And it would be like, okay, Iwould like even with you, it's
hard to explain.
And it's possible.
The Bible talks about what?
Sharing each other's burdens.

SPEAKER_11 (01:34:13):
Yes, sharing each other's.

SPEAKER_00 (01:34:14):
Before people be like, oh, you're you're lying.

SPEAKER_11 (01:34:16):
No, no, no.
You got it the Bible is Bible.
It says to share each other'sburdens.
We can share each other'sburdens, and we can share a lot.

SPEAKER_00 (01:34:28):
The problem is this, y'all gotta realize that the
scripture is alive and real.
We're not reading Bible stories.
No, we're reading accounts ofpeople's lives.

SPEAKER_10 (01:34:37):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (01:34:37):
Okay.
So as I was going through theprocess, I was sharing sharing
your burden.

SPEAKER_10 (01:34:41):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (01:34:41):
And what God would tell me, and what you were
saying, is as that pain would beplaced on me, I'm taking this
off of me.
I'm taking this burden off ofme, and I'm laying it down at
the feet of the father, thefather.
Yeah.
I'm giving it over to him.

SPEAKER_06 (01:34:55):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (01:34:55):
And this is what we have to do.
You have to take those burdensoff of you, and you have to say,
Father, I am laying these downat the foot of your altar and
giving it over to you.
Because the Bible tells us what?
Cast our burdens on him.

SPEAKER_11 (01:35:08):
Right.
And his yoke is easy.

SPEAKER_00 (01:35:10):
And I'm doing these things, and I knew the Bible, I
knew the ins and outs, read theBibles, and we gotta go.
But uh, you know, doing thesethings and not realizing I'm
doing scripture.

SPEAKER_10 (01:35:21):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (01:35:22):
Jesus has me going through scripture, and then you
find it back in scripture.
Lay my burdens down.
Exactly.
Cast your burdens on me.
Uh, carrying your uh carryingyour your your taking upon his
yoke, taking upon his yoke, andthen also uh praying upon your
behalf.
The scripture talks about all ofthis travailing, travailing, all

(01:35:44):
of these different things wewe'll get into this, but yeah,
we're gonna go.

SPEAKER_11 (01:35:49):
So but you need those people in your life that
are able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 (01:35:53):
Yes, and we will leave it at that.
We say it a lot tonight.
God bless you all.
We appreciate you, we love you,we love you till next time.

SPEAKER_11 (01:36:04):
Goodbye.

SPEAKER_00 (01:36:05):
Goodbye.

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