December 17, 2024 • 39 mins
"Stew and the Crew" is hosted by Jonathan Stewart, the Carolina Panthers' all-time leading rusher, and Jeremy Kelley, Director of Legends Affairs. Together, they invite legendary guests to delve into the intricacies of the game and life after football. This week J-Stew sits down with former Panthers wide receiver, Rocket Ismail.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
We're the thirteenth big in the two thousand and eight
NFL Trap Carolina Panther select Jonathan Stewart gives to Stewart,
he leaves touchdown.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Stewart oh rough tough right, angry man out at all
those knees.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Stewart hesitates, accelerates.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
That's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Bits the Smash Mother Football contain Stuart got running round.
Stewart jump over a tackler at the tenth flows jump,
Laura's his shoulder, keeps running.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
No one will touch him.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Jonathan free On Stewart, you talk about explosive players in
the run game. It's like the fourth of July round
here right now.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
You are listening to Stu and the crew. Now to
Jonathan Stewarts and Jeremy Kelly.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
Welcome to ste and the crew. I'm your host, Jonathan
Stewart co host Here, Jeremy Kelly. We have a special
special guest in the house, Rocket Ishmael. Ladies and gentlemen,
legend in the Carolina community. We miss him, but he
is a legend as a Notre Dame alumni joining the NFL.
(01:07):
But his route to the NFL, Jeremy is a little
bit more trailblazing in a lot of ways, right, no question,
no question, unique route. He went up north, across that border,
across that border. Yeah, the road less traveled, as they say.
But played for the Notre Dame fighting Irishman. Got to
(01:31):
see touchdown, touchdown Jesus every Saturday whenever they played ball.
Won a national championship in nineteen eighty eight, was the
first team All American nineteen eighty nine, was a unanimous
All American in nineteen ninety. Won the Walter Camp Award
in nineteen ninety, finished second in the Heisman voting in
(01:56):
nineteen ninety. Bruh, you sound special A twenty nine College
Hall of Fame. Huh talking to a guy right here.
Huh hey, hey, hold on, now I want to I
want to.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
I'm gonna ask you did they did? Did you feel
robbed on the Heisman?
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Okay, so this is a true story.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
We're getting right into it right, let's get.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
My Heisman experience was amazing as far as just flying
to New York, hanging.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Out with let's see Sean uh the QB.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
From Shawn Moore to QB from Virginia, Eric B enemy tailback.
At matter of fact, we played them back to back
Orange Bowls. Eric beene Mey was a tailback for the
Buffalos for Colorado time shout out coach Prime Present Day.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
And then because that was back to back, that was
Orange Bowl.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Yeah, man, back to back Orange Bowl.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
We won the first one and the second one was
like a ten to nine game. And you might not
be old enough to remember this, but there used to
be a show that came on called Wide World of
Sports when I was a little boy, and in the intro.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
They had this dramatic music and they had this cat.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Doing athletic feat and in the right before the show opened,
it had a part where it said the thrill of
victory and then somebody had this this thriller victory, awesome
athletic moment and then the agony of defeat and the
cat falling down on this like giant slalom in the
Olympics or something. And so in the second game we
(03:41):
had a thrill of victory agony of defeat moment like
in the last minute of the game, and.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
So we were one and one.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Colorado won the last game. We won the first game,
but the Heisman moment.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Was incredible because for me, I thought, even if I
lost well, I said lost.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Even if I didn't come in first, I always say lose.
People try to get me to change my language on that.
Even if I didn't come in first, I would be
back next year, and you know, no big deal. However,
I wasn't aware that, you know, certain circumstances would change
(04:26):
which would lead me to going eventually to go up
north and to actually declare myself to be eligible for
the NFL Draft. And that all happened in the Orange Bowl.
Hour after the Orange Bowl, we got home and I
remember my brother he came into my room and he
(04:51):
was like, yo, man, your boy's mom just passed. I
was like, what it was National news and teammate of
min Chris Zorich, when I was at Notre Dame, he
came home from the Bowl game found his mother had passed.
And you know, in that moment, we were sitting there
watching it in my grandmother's room. It was my mother,
(05:13):
my brother, I and my grandmother. And you know, that
was the first time it dawned on me that your
your parents can can. I guess you already you know
it in the back of your mind, but it was
like a reality check, and so that spurred me to like,
all right, I got to go and be the man
at the house and provide what I can because tomorrow's
(05:35):
not promised. So anyway, that's how I got to the CFL.
Back to the Heisman question. It was hilarious. It was
It was funny to me because my mother was I
think she was sitting behind me, to my right or
to my left. I don't remember specifically, and I just
remember the guy Ty Deptmer won the award, but he
(05:57):
was in Hawaii, so all of the cameras were were
on me and the other guys, but primarily on me,
and I just remember when they announced his name.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
I remember I clapped my hands and now I was
happy for him. I was like, okay, I'll just get
it next year. And my mother got into my one
of my shoulders. She came up.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Oh man, she was tight che says some choice words
with a smile on her face. Though she was like
some some something that's all right.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Uh, that's all right about it.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
She's like, we're going we're going pro Anyway, I was
just like, okay, I know she's you know, emotions are
high and in this in the moment, but it was
like lo and behold that's actually what happened. But overall,
my Heisman experience was was was excellent.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
That's that's interesting because there's been a lot of times
I look back my football career as a whole and
I think to myself, Man, how did I think that
was a hard decision? Like when I like when I
when I decided to come out for the NFL draft
my junior year. Looking back at it now is like, boy, duh,
(07:17):
of course you're supposed to get up out of there.
But like looking back at it, like being in the moment,
you're so focused on just your craft, and you're so
so like no addicted to just like doing all the
things that you're supposed to do to get better. So
you're not thinking about youah, thinking about the pro level,
(07:39):
You're not thinking about the accolades. You're just so like
focused and determined just to get better at your craft.
And then one day you wake up you're like, oh, wait,
I am good enough.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Man, I'm so to to that point just thinking about
the like my mo.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
So, first of all, my personality is is I'm not
like a uh.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Not that I'm not driven or self motivated, but I'm
not like I'm just trying to stay within the lines.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
If you will.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
So if you're supposed to go to college for four years,
you're supposed to go to college for four years. Book
Like I'm I'm like the I'm like programmed.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
I don't know, like like some people will look outside
the box. That's not me.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
And in fact, I remember my sophomore year they used
to have this show called the Bob Hope All American Show,
and I remember they would fly all of the All Americans.
So this is nineteen eighty nine. They fly us out
to Los Angeles and we would stay at Century City,
(08:48):
not Central City, a studio city is out I think
they have it's like an amusement park and kind of
entertainment attraction now.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
And I remember it was who was it? It was?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
It was Chris Zorich, Michael Stonebreaker, Todd Light, emmittt Smith,
Leroy Butler, Mark Carrier, and myself.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
And you know, because I was out there my freshman year.
It was.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Matter of fact, I think Stoney was out our freshman year,
so I don't think he was there my sophomore year.
I remember we're all out there and Mark Kerry is
like yo. I think it was like the Black Student
Association was having a dance at at SC and he
was like, Yo, we're.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Having a dance at the school. If y'all want to
roll through.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
He said, I got, I got the Jetta. So he
had this Volkswagen Jedda like for us back color b high.
What color was it, bruh, I don't remember, but if
I would have guessed, I'm going to suspect it was
some form of SC's color maroon.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
Or something in there. And so now I just.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Remember while we're in the car driving from the hotel
to USC's campus to go to this dance, guys start
talking about Emmitt, Leroy, Mark They all start talking about
going to the NFL, and in my mind I was
just like, well, you know, I got I got two
(10:32):
more years before that's even a thing for me.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
And then I.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Don't know if it was Emmitt or Leroy, they were like, hey, man, uh,
you should go to the NFL too, And I was like, oh, yeah, yeah,
in a couple of years.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
They're like a couple of years or half, No, you can.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Go right now.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
I'm like, so the Emmitt Smith telling you, bro, you
better wake up and smell of coffee.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Bro, Now watch this Emmitt that, Okay, we all have
this experience.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
There are brothers in the NFL, or in an NFL
locker room, and even in the college locker room, but
you see it more than an NFL locker room. They
just think different. They're ahead of the game. They think
business first. They don't think having fun and enjoying yourself.
Like in college, I felt I felt protected, I felt
(11:23):
I felt significant, I felt provided for.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Like it was like everything I didn't even know I needed,
just as a as a as a as.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
A man, I felt like I had all that in
the college environment and everything was in order and there
was no stress. There was no anxiety, no worry, nothing.
So it was like when he said that to me,
I was like, huh, what are you talking about.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
He's like, oh yeah, man. Then he broke it down.
He was like, man, you could do this, this, that, that,
the other.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
You come out now you're young, you can make this
amount of money, blah blah blah. And so it was
just like it wasn't even a a reality that I
had considered. And so to your to your point, man,
I was just like, looking back on it, it was
a It was probably at that time one of the
(12:13):
scariest decisions I made. However, it was scarier to me
if my mother would have died and I would not
have been able to like, when you're young, I'm gonna
buy my mother house. So if I wouldn't have been
able to buy my mother house or provide for her in.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
A way that I felt like I was supposed to
as the oldest.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Son, that was scarier than me making the decision to
go to the NFL, even though that was extremely scary,
because I really didn't like talking to people. I really
didn't like being in environments, especially when it was media involved,
because I started seeing early on that they like they
try to like buddy, your buddy, your buddy, y rocket.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
You didn't like talking to people.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Bro, I'm telling you I wouldn't. No, no, no, okay,
I got I gotta take it. I didn't like talking.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
To people I didn't know, and or media talking to
my boys having fun.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
That's kind of how That's kind of how I was
in college. I was a mute boy. I ain't talk
to nobody. I was like, I'm here just.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
To play football, leave me alone.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
But once I got once I got to the pro level,
I met a guy named Kenny Moore and Kenny Kenny
Moore like got me talking because he was a talker
and he got me around people. Is like, hey, man,
you got a network. Man, this person you might need him.
You might need him one day. I'm like, man, need
him for what. I don't know business. I'm all right,
So we have We all have people in our lives
(13:40):
that break us out of our shells. So shout out
to all the guys that you know are part of
our breakout moments.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
I think, go back, man, let me tell you something.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
What you just said, Like I wish I would have Well,
I knew, I knew what was necessary at the time
time that I knew it.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
But what you just said as part as.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Networking, like one of the things when I tell when
I look at my college experience.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
You know, unless you're going to be an engineer.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
A lawyer, doctor like some specific crap, even if you're
going to be a specific lane that you're going to
educate yourself on and equip yourself to come out and
try to excel in the most beneficial thing to me
about college is the ability to have a network of
(14:30):
people that have something in common and for the most part,
have if you and you know the next man have
this certain thing in common, this certain experience, even if
they weren't an athlete, or you weren't a law student
or whatever, but you have this same institution in common.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
It has the ability to it's like a unifying factor.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
That can help you later on down a road.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
But you know, I'm not looking at later on down
the road.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
I'm looking at you know right now for the most part,
that those people are very beneficial.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
That goes back to that goes back to this. You know,
both of your experiences, both of you guys had the
opportunity to come out early as you dominated the collegiate
level right in that field. When you are eating, sleeping, living,
working tirelessly with a group of guys for four years,
as you mentioned, or at least that's the plan, right,
you forge a bond, you forge a commitment. They you know,
(15:27):
you're buying into the culture of Notre Dame of Oregon,
and you guys are both powerhouses respectfully during those days, right,
so you're winning games. So this is the emotional connection
that of course you're not even thinking about the pro
level right now. You're just a high school kid that's
enjoying the fruits of college football at the highest level.
Just want to have fun exactly. So your your mind
wasn't even conceiving there until you had that experience your
(15:50):
teammate realizing, oh, hold on a second, now there's something bigger,
there's family, right, and these things can happen. I need
to be a provider, and that's when you step into
that role, right. And I think that's an interesting dynamic
that you both bring up when you when you think
about the transition from a collegiate athlete to be in
a professional athlete. Uh but man, so so I want
(16:11):
to dive in a little bit rocket because we went
into your your your collegiate you know, still already ran
down your accolades and whatnot. Man, obviously incredible collegiate career
and your name rings bells. Everybody knows about your your
path to the CFL first four going, you know, even
though you were drafted and chosen to go play for
the Toronto Argonauts. Very familiar as a former cfler myself.
(16:34):
Although uh, as we used to say, Hamilton fter our
goals cast eat them raw, right, so uh get them raw? Well,
look that's what Tiger Cats, baby, baby keep PG now
still keppg now. But but right, you know, you went
up there into that game. We talked about your speed.
(16:55):
We know when you were a track athlete, Olympic level
track athlete, and when you're playing on a field them
in Canada. For the folks here that aren't familiar with
the Canadian football game, it is sixty five yards wide
one hundred and ten yards long. So as a wide
receiver with rocket speed, you ain't get nothing but space
up there. You run a corner route, you're running from
(17:16):
here to West Sharp or West Western Carolina. I mean,
it doesn't stop. You have so much fuel to work with.
So what was your first impression. Obviously, all cameras, all
lights were on you when you crossed the border, but
what was your first impression of the game itself with
the waggle and approaching the line as a receiver, and
just the nuances that go along Canadian football.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
So the nuances were it was, it was wild the
first thing I look into the secondary first of all.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
First of all, I was not a receiver, if.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
You will, in the conventional sense, in college, so I
didn't have I was a tailback in high school, and
then when I got to college, the only reason they
put me out wide. First of all, I was one hundred.
I was like probably five eight and a half five nine.
I think I was like one hundred and sixty six
pounds when I got on the scale, you know, when
(18:18):
all the freshmen came in, and so I was, you know,
I'm not a big guy anyway, so.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Then I ran like crazy fast and they were like, yo.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Wait a minute, So they put me out wide. So
I went from a natural position to like a position
that looking back on it, I didn't really develop in
because they were like, oh, wait a minute, we could
just figure out ways to get him the ball, so
we could put him in the backfield, put him in
at a flinker, or put him in the slot, and
(18:52):
so he's like a hybrid. So when I got to Canada,
my receiving mind and how I eventually and in fact,
as in fact my I didn't develop into a true
receiver until I got to Carolina. So in my development
when I got to Canada, I was like very confused.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
I looked in the.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Secondary, you know, there's the extra guy back there, and
it's like.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
My my, I mean, I really didn't have my route.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Mechanics and and such were were really raggedy.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
But if if I got the ball, then.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Good stuff. You were you were really out there just
playing football, man.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I was, yes, it was man, let's let me catch
the ball or toss the ball to me.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
And then they started put me in the backfield.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
And then I, like I said, I didn't really develop.
And this is also something that was interesting, but I
won't jump ahead. Stay with Canada in Toronto, it was.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
It was weird.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Because I still had a college mentality as far as okay, practice,
you know, back back then, I think like the first
meeting started like twelve third like after lunch or something,
and so I lived downtown in Toronto, so I was like, okay,
it takes thirty minutes.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
I used to estimate it takes thirty minutes to get there.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
So instead of me leaving at a minimum, say an
hour head or maybe forty five minutes at the latest,
I would leave thirty minutes before it's time to get
to practice. And I wouldn't account for traffic, traffic accident,
it's rush hour or whatever, and like little.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Stuff like that. Like looking back on.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
It, it didn't really change until the coach Adam Rita.
And thank God for this he was like, hey, man,
I'm going to get you a roommate on the road.
So he paired me with uh Carl Brasley, who was
a CFL star in his own right back in the day.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
And you know, he was married. He had a like
a mature sense about him, and he was a pro.
That's exactly right. He was a pro.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
And then it was like hanging out with him, I
started learning how to be a pro and how to
take care of business in a professional manner. And that
really that that that helped to make the ride smoother.
And then before I knew it, two years had passed
and it was time to go to the NFL. So my,
(21:41):
but we won. Uh we won a great first year.
V Oh yeah, that's right, m v P.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Mind saying is just thinking about team first man.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Brou I'm gonna tell you what I thought about what
really stands out my mom when we talked about Gray Cup,
Which that's why I forgot what you talked about MVP stuff,
because it was the first time.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
And I look, I grew up on the East Coast.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I grew up in Jersey. My father died when I
was ten. We moved to Pennsylvania, so we're in Northeastern PA.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Cold weather.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Then we moved out to uh Indiana go to high school,
I mean, go to college at Notre Dame.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Weather extreme. Plus they have Lake effect weather, so it's
like really extreme.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
Man.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
I say all that to.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Say I'm not a I'm not I'm not soft. When
it came to the to the weather. We moved to Toronto.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Man, we playing that Gray Cup bro Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
It was like negative something fahrenheit. And this is what
I remember the most. It was the first time that
I saw and experienced how the temperature had got so
cold that.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
It changed the composition of the leather.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
It was like the leather it was like instead of
it being like just cold leather, it was it almost
had a consistency of glass. And so that stood out
to me the most. And we won that game and
it was fun.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
And like I said, next thing, you know, I'm in
Los Angeles.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
And you go from there right exactly two extremes back
to LA That's right.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Yo, Now watch this, watch this. Man.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Let me tell you something. I and this is hindsight.
I didn't realize it at the time, but man, when
you go from say the first third of my football
life was all cold weather states, and so all you're
used to it is no big deal, except for when
the leather turns the glass.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Then we get to Los Angeles.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Man, man, it's so this is such a lesson from this.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
I remember in Los Angeles. I didn't know it, but
I was.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
I was losing my mental toughness and I was in
an environment where it just seemed like it was normal.
Was just a normal part of it. And this is
how I how I uh or I realized it. When
you're in Los Angeles and it's like seventy degrees you
know every day, you know, the sun is out, nice breeze,
(24:28):
so forth and so on. It's like any extreme weather,
whether it's cold or the extreme cold or the extreme hot.
It's like you're not used to it. And I remember, man,
and and this is our environment is so it's so important, man,
(24:52):
if you ever get a chance, study epigenetics, and that's
the effect that the environment has on your your genes,
your d And so I remember when the schedule were
released in the off season.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
It used to be a big deal.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Guys would gather around and you know, they'd look at
the schedule and they'd be like, oh, we're going here,
We're going here.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
We're going here. And I remember the ritual in Los
Angeles was we.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Would after an off season workout, everybody would come around,
the schedule be released, and it was like when I
was in LA, it was like the mindset was that
the league office was against us, and I think that
came down from mister Davis, and we would be looking
(25:41):
at the schedule, and on the schedule they would say, okay,
say if we had to go play in Miami or
I don't know if if the Cardinals were in Arizona
at this time or not, but if we had to
go down, say to Miami, and we had to go
to Miami, and like the first within the first quarter
(26:04):
of the season, man, every this is this would be
the reaction. Oh yeah, yeah, I know the league is
against us now because look they got us going down
to Miami. It's gonna be ninety eight degrees with one
hundred percent of humidity, and they got the game schedule
at twelve in afternoon, or they don't want us to win.
The car just stacked against us, and so I'm just
(26:25):
soaking all.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Of this in, like, oh, okay, well, the NFL is
against it.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Okay, man, well, and it must be bad if we're
going to I mean, I.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Guess who is the main guy talking like that?
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Broh, no names on the camera, everybody, if I'm telling you, everybody,
bro everybody around us were either Hall of Fame or somebody.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
If you know the Raiders, you.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Would early nineties Raiders, you might. You got some guys
on that team. Now you know he out there. You
got some guys, right, Yes, you got a quarterback during
that time, Jeff George.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
No, I was so I was Hostetler. Actually I just
missed Marinovich. Hostetler was there, and so let me finish
the story though, because this is important. So uh, it
would be the same thing if we were going to
play a cold weather game in December, or they got
us going up the Buffalo, or they got us going
out the Green Bay and the last game of the year.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Whatever.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
And so suddenly, internally for me, instead of instead of
having an attitude like, man, no matter what comes, I'm
gonna overcome the opposition, overcome the obstacle, I'm going to
meet the challenge head on, whatever, it was like suddenly
I was like, why are they doing this to us?
This doesn't man, this isn't fair, like that was my
(27:57):
subtle mentality, and I didn't realize that I'd never had
that mindset before and that it was a part of deconstructing,
deconstructing what I now understand as mental toughness. Mental toughness
is like, Okay, there's opposition and it's not going to
(28:19):
be easy, but we got a chance. We can, we can,
we can meet the challenge that was that started going
out the window. And I didn't watch this. I didn't
fully realize it until we got to Carolina. And when
I got to Carolina, everybody, First of all, the way
the team was constructed. They took the majority of their
(28:42):
their especially their defensive guys from like the forty nine ers,
who were like dynasty, uh, the Saints who had or
some some vicious defenses back in the day.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
And it was one other team Pittsburgh, the Stellers.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
The Stellers who always had a even if their their
their season wasn't what they wanted there, they always were
are resilient mentally tough like they were trying to get
back to that dynasty level. And so I remember my
first off season with the Panthers. I just come from
Carolina and mine. I mean, la, mind you, I'm not
(29:19):
aware that I'm now infected with this this virus that
is no longer mentally tough.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
So we come into I come into the off.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Season and the schedules released, and so I come in
and now when I come into locker room, I just
come from the Raiders.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
So I come from like.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
A noteworthy team in the NFL. And then I'm not
too far removed from the from Notre Dame. So a
lot of the young guys, they're like, oh, yo, that's
rocking this blah blah blah. So I'm now holding court
and so we.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
Get out the shower and I come over and I
look at the schedule.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
And I start saying the same thing that was normal
in the environment that I just came from. And I'm
telling you, I'm going down making every excuse why we're
not going to win this game, why this game is
gonna be too tough, why these guys are did blah
blah blah blah blah. Man in the background, it was
(30:23):
Eric Davis, who was forty nine ers, Kevin Green who
was Pittsburgh, Sam Mills who was the Saints toy cook
forty nine ers, Brent Maxey, he was the Saints, and
it was other linebacker Lamar lath Yo. So they're just
(30:49):
listening to what I say, and I'm going through my
spill and like these little cats, young cats, there are
everything I say I can tell there like listening to.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Me, like, oh, this is the gospel, This is the truth, man,
this is the NFL. Bruh.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
All of a sudden and out of the back of
the crowd, I heard a voice go rocket Man said,
let me tell you a little your little butt something.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Here's a different word, he said, let me tell you
a little butt something.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
He said, any of those game you think we can win,
you keep your little butt at home because we're gonna
win all these games.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
I'm tired of this mindset with blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
And he starts rebuking me, and I'm like, wait, what
did I say wrong? And then I realize he's pointing
out that unwittingly, I have been a participant and now
an evangelist for a losing mentally weak mentality.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
So hold on now, okay.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
No, Sam, Sam was quiet. That was another lesson I
learned from Sam. Sam was quiet. This was Eric Davis.
He was a dB that was with Carolina and he's
the one who stepped up.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
I mean, Kevin Green. All of them were.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
There, but they were like, yeah, what he said, he
was They were looking. It was like they were giving
me subtle respect. But I think Eric Davis because he
was with the forty nine ers and the forty nine
ers win.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
That's really good. That's really good to hear because it
does take.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
It takes, you know, guys to have the courage to
step up and say something when needed be because if not,
it turns into something bigger than it needs to be.
I look at the situation with DeAndre Campbell for the
forty nine ers. Don't know if you're tracking that, but
what's happening. But he walked off the field this past game.
The forty nine ers were in mid game and he
(32:51):
obviously you know how depth charts work with guys that
think they should be playing.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
He didn't have. He was third string.
Speaker 4 (32:59):
Right, it's coming off and jury and then so your
vet and deserves. He thinks he deserves to play right rightfully,
so everybody should be playing with the thought process of
I should be playing. But mid game he walks off
the field. But there's an interview question to Bosa, and
Bosa has had said, Yeah, I kind of recognized something
(33:19):
was off with him. You know, he was saying things
pre game, before the game about how he was upset about,
you know, the rotation and whatnot. He didn't say anything right,
And I look at your situation, Eric Campbell like, hey, look, youngster,
before we get this ship going, we're gonna we're gonna
(33:41):
make sure we plug up all the holes.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
And in Carolina at that time, as you mentioned the
expansion Draft, the guys that they're bringing in are that
are the Vets that can play ball. And all those
names you just mentioned are all solidified household names in
the NFL during their tenure. Uh some home.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
And check this out.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
In that moment, it was like I had an epiphany
and I finally understood what teams. So back when I
was playing teams that won the Super Bowl, there would
always be a team. I'm not always, but a majority
of time, there would be a team that would pay
(34:23):
somebody who was like maybe a second tier guy, or
maybe a nickel guy or a dime guy or a
special team guy. They would pay somebody that played on
a super Bowl winning team for you know, a lot
of money for back then, and it used to bewilder
me and almost everybody in the media.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
They're like, why they're paying this guy so much money?
Speaker 2 (34:47):
He wasn't even the man on his team even though
they won a Super Bowl. But I realized that what
they were trying to do was they were trying to
get somebody that came from a winning culture, that had
hopefully the winning d n A and the mindset in
his heart and brain to come into their organization because
(35:10):
they knew in order for them to get to the
Super Bowl to start being perennial winners, that they needed
to change the environment culture and they were hoping that
they could accomplish it with what's one of these guys?
Speaker 1 (35:23):
That's right, And that's that's consistent with with who we
had on last week. He was in here last week,
that's right. So so you know, as you're talking about
building the culture, building the locker room, and the type
of players that they were bringing in, that's consistent, right,
and and and even you know, prior to doing the
little preparation, prior to having Stone in the room, I
(35:43):
reached out to Brentson Buckner. I said, but why don't
you tell me something about Stoney, he said, Man, I
don't got no stories. Stoney came in, took care of business,
went home. He was a pros pro. Right, those are
the guys that they brought to Carolina during that time.
The Wesley Walls, the dwy Stone went and draft you know,
the Sam Mills, Kevin Greens. Right, so that roster, you know. So,
(36:07):
so you guys had a You guys had a heck
of a lineup, man, And there's many more to to
go ahead and recognize too. You know, there's one guy
that I made note of too. They don't want to
talk about since as you are a speedy kick returner,
punk returner. You also had Michael Bates.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Who who would win that race? Wait, no, no, So
Mike is gonna win everything. It's going to be close
in one hundred. He's gonna win everything above a hundred.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
He is strong.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
I want you to tell me about Mike, because I
think Michael is a guy who often doesn't get the recognition,
but it's more than deserving. And so just tell me.
When you got here to Carolina and you show up
and you and you come up against a guy that
was that talented, how did he make you better? Well,
just what was your when you're observing him as an athlete?
Speaker 3 (37:02):
Observing him? So he was a tweeterer guy. He had
the body of a of a of a tailback. He
had the speed of a receiver, and but he had
the toughness like he was.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Man, I remember when he played with Seattle when we man,
that bro lit me up on a couple of hands
teams on side kicks.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Oh my god. However, the case that I would hope.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
And historian for the Panthers would put together for Michael
Bates is you know how in this was? Uh, what's
the brother who just went into the Hall of Fame
for the returns? How Devin has what Devin Hester did
(37:51):
for kickoff returns on on a special team level, Mike
did on every single special teams like he's on that level.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
Man, oh man, I would. I don't know how, but
there's some way they must.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
They need to compile all of his special teams that
on kickoff, kickoff return, punt block, punt return, phil goal block.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
Like his prowess was.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
So we've had Like I can tell you this, it's
not lost on anybody in this building. Okay, Okay, now
we are in. You know, our team historian Davi mon
Roe is outstanding. Okay, our beat writer there again. You know,
and those that were around when Michael was playing here,
trust me, we all recognize his impact. And I would
(38:50):
even say there's also those outside of the building because
I know Michael has received votes for the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
So okay, I was just about to say, I was
taking about that. When I saw Devin Hester, I was.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Like, he's a guy who I think just overall when
you think about kick returners and you think about special teamers. Again,
back in the market in Carolina when he played here
in a time where nobody knew what Carolina where Charlotte was.
They weren't really paying attention to the Panthers like that.
In the grand scheme, He's not the first name that
might come to the top of a lot of people's lists, right.
(39:22):
You might hear that you got the Devin Hesters, You're
gonna have the Mass Slaters, You're gonna have the Steve Taskers,
these guys who were reaching Super Bowls year over year
over year,
We're the thirteenth big in the two thousand and eight
NFL Trap Carolina Panther select Jonathan Stewart gives to Stewart,
he leaves touchdown.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Stewart oh rough tough right, angry man out at all
those knees.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Stewart hesitates, accelerates.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
That's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Bits the Smash Mother Football contain Stuart got running round.
Stewart jump over a tackler at the tenth flows jump,
Laura's his shoulder, keeps running.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
No one will touch him.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Jonathan free On Stewart, you talk about explosive players in
the run game. It's like the fourth of July round
here right now.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
You are listening to Stu and the crew. Now to
Jonathan Stewarts and Jeremy Kelly.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
Welcome to ste and the crew. I'm your host, Jonathan
Stewart co host Here, Jeremy Kelly. We have a special
special guest in the house, Rocket Ishmael. Ladies and gentlemen,
legend in the Carolina community. We miss him, but he
is a legend as a Notre Dame alumni joining the NFL.
(01:07):
But his route to the NFL, Jeremy is a little
bit more trailblazing in a lot of ways, right, no question,
no question, unique route. He went up north, across that border,
across that border. Yeah, the road less traveled, as they say.
But played for the Notre Dame fighting Irishman. Got to
(01:31):
see touchdown, touchdown Jesus every Saturday whenever they played ball.
Won a national championship in nineteen eighty eight, was the
first team All American nineteen eighty nine, was a unanimous
All American in nineteen ninety. Won the Walter Camp Award
in nineteen ninety, finished second in the Heisman voting in
(01:56):
nineteen ninety. Bruh, you sound special A twenty nine College
Hall of Fame. Huh talking to a guy right here.
Huh hey, hey, hold on, now I want to I
want to.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
I'm gonna ask you did they did? Did you feel
robbed on the Heisman?
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Okay, so this is a true story.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
We're getting right into it right, let's get.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
My Heisman experience was amazing as far as just flying
to New York, hanging.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Out with let's see Sean uh the QB.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
From Shawn Moore to QB from Virginia, Eric B enemy tailback.
At matter of fact, we played them back to back
Orange Bowls. Eric beene Mey was a tailback for the
Buffalos for Colorado time shout out coach Prime Present Day.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
And then because that was back to back, that was
Orange Bowl.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Yeah, man, back to back Orange Bowl.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
We won the first one and the second one was
like a ten to nine game. And you might not
be old enough to remember this, but there used to
be a show that came on called Wide World of
Sports when I was a little boy, and in the intro.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
They had this dramatic music and they had this cat.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Doing athletic feat and in the right before the show opened,
it had a part where it said the thrill of
victory and then somebody had this this thriller victory, awesome
athletic moment and then the agony of defeat and the
cat falling down on this like giant slalom in the
Olympics or something. And so in the second game we
(03:41):
had a thrill of victory agony of defeat moment like
in the last minute of the game, and.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
So we were one and one.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Colorado won the last game. We won the first game,
but the Heisman moment.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Was incredible because for me, I thought, even if I
lost well, I said lost.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Even if I didn't come in first, I always say lose.
People try to get me to change my language on that.
Even if I didn't come in first, I would be
back next year, and you know, no big deal. However,
I wasn't aware that, you know, certain circumstances would change
(04:26):
which would lead me to going eventually to go up
north and to actually declare myself to be eligible for
the NFL Draft. And that all happened in the Orange Bowl.
Hour after the Orange Bowl, we got home and I
remember my brother he came into my room and he
(04:51):
was like, yo, man, your boy's mom just passed. I
was like, what it was National news and teammate of
min Chris Zorich, when I was at Notre Dame, he
came home from the Bowl game found his mother had passed.
And you know, in that moment, we were sitting there
watching it in my grandmother's room. It was my mother,
(05:13):
my brother, I and my grandmother. And you know, that
was the first time it dawned on me that your
your parents can can. I guess you already you know
it in the back of your mind, but it was
like a reality check, and so that spurred me to like,
all right, I got to go and be the man
at the house and provide what I can because tomorrow's
(05:35):
not promised. So anyway, that's how I got to the CFL.
Back to the Heisman question. It was hilarious. It was
It was funny to me because my mother was I
think she was sitting behind me, to my right or
to my left. I don't remember specifically, and I just
remember the guy Ty Deptmer won the award, but he
(05:57):
was in Hawaii, so all of the cameras were were
on me and the other guys, but primarily on me,
and I just remember when they announced his name.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
I remember I clapped my hands and now I was
happy for him. I was like, okay, I'll just get
it next year. And my mother got into my one
of my shoulders. She came up.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Oh man, she was tight che says some choice words
with a smile on her face. Though she was like
some some something that's all right.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Uh, that's all right about it.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
She's like, we're going we're going pro Anyway, I was
just like, okay, I know she's you know, emotions are
high and in this in the moment, but it was
like lo and behold that's actually what happened. But overall,
my Heisman experience was was was excellent.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
That's that's interesting because there's been a lot of times
I look back my football career as a whole and
I think to myself, Man, how did I think that
was a hard decision? Like when I like when I
when I decided to come out for the NFL draft
my junior year. Looking back at it now is like, boy, duh,
(07:17):
of course you're supposed to get up out of there.
But like looking back at it, like being in the moment,
you're so focused on just your craft, and you're so
so like no addicted to just like doing all the
things that you're supposed to do to get better. So
you're not thinking about youah, thinking about the pro level,
(07:39):
You're not thinking about the accolades. You're just so like
focused and determined just to get better at your craft.
And then one day you wake up you're like, oh, wait,
I am good enough.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Man, I'm so to to that point just thinking about
the like my mo.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
So, first of all, my personality is is I'm not
like a uh.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Not that I'm not driven or self motivated, but I'm
not like I'm just trying to stay within the lines.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
If you will.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
So if you're supposed to go to college for four years,
you're supposed to go to college for four years. Book
Like I'm I'm like the I'm like programmed.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
I don't know, like like some people will look outside
the box. That's not me.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
And in fact, I remember my sophomore year they used
to have this show called the Bob Hope All American Show,
and I remember they would fly all of the All Americans.
So this is nineteen eighty nine. They fly us out
to Los Angeles and we would stay at Century City,
(08:48):
not Central City, a studio city is out I think
they have it's like an amusement park and kind of
entertainment attraction now.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
And I remember it was who was it? It was?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
It was Chris Zorich, Michael Stonebreaker, Todd Light, emmittt Smith,
Leroy Butler, Mark Carrier, and myself.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
And you know, because I was out there my freshman year.
It was.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Matter of fact, I think Stoney was out our freshman year,
so I don't think he was there my sophomore year.
I remember we're all out there and Mark Kerry is
like yo. I think it was like the Black Student
Association was having a dance at at SC and he
was like, Yo, we're.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Having a dance at the school. If y'all want to
roll through.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
He said, I got, I got the Jetta. So he
had this Volkswagen Jedda like for us back color b high.
What color was it, bruh, I don't remember, but if
I would have guessed, I'm going to suspect it was
some form of SC's color maroon.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
Or something in there. And so now I just.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Remember while we're in the car driving from the hotel
to USC's campus to go to this dance, guys start
talking about Emmitt, Leroy, Mark They all start talking about
going to the NFL, and in my mind I was
just like, well, you know, I got I got two
(10:32):
more years before that's even a thing for me.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
And then I.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Don't know if it was Emmitt or Leroy, they were like, hey, man, uh,
you should go to the NFL too, And I was like, oh, yeah, yeah,
in a couple of years.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
They're like a couple of years or half, No, you can.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Go right now.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
I'm like, so the Emmitt Smith telling you, bro, you
better wake up and smell of coffee.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Bro, Now watch this Emmitt that, Okay, we all have
this experience.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
There are brothers in the NFL, or in an NFL
locker room, and even in the college locker room, but
you see it more than an NFL locker room. They
just think different. They're ahead of the game. They think
business first. They don't think having fun and enjoying yourself.
Like in college, I felt I felt protected, I felt
(11:23):
I felt significant, I felt provided for.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Like it was like everything I didn't even know I needed,
just as a as a as a as.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
A man, I felt like I had all that in
the college environment and everything was in order and there
was no stress. There was no anxiety, no worry, nothing.
So it was like when he said that to me,
I was like, huh, what are you talking about.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
He's like, oh yeah, man. Then he broke it down.
He was like, man, you could do this, this, that, that,
the other.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
You come out now you're young, you can make this
amount of money, blah blah blah. And so it was
just like it wasn't even a a reality that I
had considered. And so to your to your point, man,
I was just like, looking back on it, it was
a It was probably at that time one of the
(12:13):
scariest decisions I made. However, it was scarier to me
if my mother would have died and I would not
have been able to like, when you're young, I'm gonna
buy my mother house. So if I wouldn't have been
able to buy my mother house or provide for her in.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
A way that I felt like I was supposed to
as the oldest.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Son, that was scarier than me making the decision to
go to the NFL, even though that was extremely scary,
because I really didn't like talking to people. I really
didn't like being in environments, especially when it was media involved,
because I started seeing early on that they like they
try to like buddy, your buddy, your buddy, y rocket.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
You didn't like talking to people.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Bro, I'm telling you I wouldn't. No, no, no, okay,
I got I gotta take it. I didn't like talking.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
To people I didn't know, and or media talking to
my boys having fun.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
That's kind of how That's kind of how I was
in college. I was a mute boy. I ain't talk
to nobody. I was like, I'm here just.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
To play football, leave me alone.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
But once I got once I got to the pro level,
I met a guy named Kenny Moore and Kenny Kenny
Moore like got me talking because he was a talker
and he got me around people. Is like, hey, man,
you got a network. Man, this person you might need him.
You might need him one day. I'm like, man, need
him for what. I don't know business. I'm all right,
So we have We all have people in our lives
(13:40):
that break us out of our shells. So shout out
to all the guys that you know are part of
our breakout moments.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
I think, go back, man, let me tell you something.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
What you just said, Like I wish I would have Well,
I knew, I knew what was necessary at the time
time that I knew it.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
But what you just said as part as.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Networking, like one of the things when I tell when
I look at my college experience.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
You know, unless you're going to be an engineer.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
A lawyer, doctor like some specific crap, even if you're
going to be a specific lane that you're going to
educate yourself on and equip yourself to come out and
try to excel in the most beneficial thing to me
about college is the ability to have a network of
(14:30):
people that have something in common and for the most part,
have if you and you know the next man have
this certain thing in common, this certain experience, even if
they weren't an athlete, or you weren't a law student
or whatever, but you have this same institution in common.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
It has the ability to it's like a unifying factor.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
That can help you later on down a road.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
But you know, I'm not looking at later on down
the road.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
I'm looking at you know right now for the most part,
that those people are very beneficial.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
That goes back to that goes back to this. You know,
both of your experiences, both of you guys had the
opportunity to come out early as you dominated the collegiate
level right in that field. When you are eating, sleeping, living,
working tirelessly with a group of guys for four years,
as you mentioned, or at least that's the plan, right,
you forge a bond, you forge a commitment. They you know,
(15:27):
you're buying into the culture of Notre Dame of Oregon,
and you guys are both powerhouses respectfully during those days, right,
so you're winning games. So this is the emotional connection
that of course you're not even thinking about the pro
level right now. You're just a high school kid that's
enjoying the fruits of college football at the highest level.
Just want to have fun exactly. So your your mind
wasn't even conceiving there until you had that experience your
(15:50):
teammate realizing, oh, hold on a second, now there's something bigger,
there's family, right, and these things can happen. I need
to be a provider, and that's when you step into
that role, right. And I think that's an interesting dynamic
that you both bring up when you when you think
about the transition from a collegiate athlete to be in
a professional athlete. Uh but man, so so I want
(16:11):
to dive in a little bit rocket because we went
into your your your collegiate you know, still already ran
down your accolades and whatnot. Man, obviously incredible collegiate career
and your name rings bells. Everybody knows about your your
path to the CFL first four going, you know, even
though you were drafted and chosen to go play for
the Toronto Argonauts. Very familiar as a former cfler myself.
(16:34):
Although uh, as we used to say, Hamilton fter our
goals cast eat them raw, right, so uh get them raw? Well,
look that's what Tiger Cats, baby, baby keep PG now
still keppg now. But but right, you know, you went
up there into that game. We talked about your speed.
(16:55):
We know when you were a track athlete, Olympic level
track athlete, and when you're playing on a field them
in Canada. For the folks here that aren't familiar with
the Canadian football game, it is sixty five yards wide
one hundred and ten yards long. So as a wide
receiver with rocket speed, you ain't get nothing but space
up there. You run a corner route, you're running from
(17:16):
here to West Sharp or West Western Carolina. I mean,
it doesn't stop. You have so much fuel to work with.
So what was your first impression. Obviously, all cameras, all
lights were on you when you crossed the border, but
what was your first impression of the game itself with
the waggle and approaching the line as a receiver, and
just the nuances that go along Canadian football.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
So the nuances were it was, it was wild the
first thing I look into the secondary first of all.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
First of all, I was not a receiver, if.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
You will, in the conventional sense, in college, so I
didn't have I was a tailback in high school, and
then when I got to college, the only reason they
put me out wide. First of all, I was one hundred.
I was like probably five eight and a half five nine.
I think I was like one hundred and sixty six
pounds when I got on the scale, you know, when
(18:18):
all the freshmen came in, and so I was, you know,
I'm not a big guy anyway, so.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Then I ran like crazy fast and they were like, yo.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Wait a minute, So they put me out wide. So
I went from a natural position to like a position
that looking back on it, I didn't really develop in
because they were like, oh, wait a minute, we could
just figure out ways to get him the ball, so
we could put him in the backfield, put him in
at a flinker, or put him in the slot, and
(18:52):
so he's like a hybrid. So when I got to Canada,
my receiving mind and how I eventually and in fact,
as in fact my I didn't develop into a true
receiver until I got to Carolina. So in my development
when I got to Canada, I was like very confused.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
I looked in the.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Secondary, you know, there's the extra guy back there, and
it's like.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
My my, I mean, I really didn't have my route.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Mechanics and and such were were really raggedy.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
But if if I got the ball, then.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Good stuff. You were you were really out there just
playing football, man.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I was, yes, it was man, let's let me catch
the ball or toss the ball to me.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
And then they started put me in the backfield.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
And then I, like I said, I didn't really develop.
And this is also something that was interesting, but I
won't jump ahead. Stay with Canada in Toronto, it was.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
It was weird.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Because I still had a college mentality as far as okay, practice,
you know, back back then, I think like the first
meeting started like twelve third like after lunch or something,
and so I lived downtown in Toronto, so I was like, okay,
it takes thirty minutes.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
I used to estimate it takes thirty minutes to get there.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
So instead of me leaving at a minimum, say an
hour head or maybe forty five minutes at the latest,
I would leave thirty minutes before it's time to get
to practice. And I wouldn't account for traffic, traffic accident,
it's rush hour or whatever, and like little.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Stuff like that. Like looking back on.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
It, it didn't really change until the coach Adam Rita.
And thank God for this he was like, hey, man,
I'm going to get you a roommate on the road.
So he paired me with uh Carl Brasley, who was
a CFL star in his own right back in the day.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
And you know, he was married. He had a like
a mature sense about him, and he was a pro.
That's exactly right. He was a pro.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
And then it was like hanging out with him, I
started learning how to be a pro and how to
take care of business in a professional manner. And that
really that that that helped to make the ride smoother.
And then before I knew it, two years had passed
and it was time to go to the NFL. So my,
(21:41):
but we won. Uh we won a great first year.
V Oh yeah, that's right, m v P.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Mind saying is just thinking about team first man.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Brou I'm gonna tell you what I thought about what
really stands out my mom when we talked about Gray Cup,
Which that's why I forgot what you talked about MVP stuff,
because it was the first time.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
And I look, I grew up on the East Coast.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I grew up in Jersey. My father died when I
was ten. We moved to Pennsylvania, so we're in Northeastern PA.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Cold weather.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Then we moved out to uh Indiana go to high school,
I mean, go to college at Notre Dame.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Weather extreme. Plus they have Lake effect weather, so it's
like really extreme.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
Man.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
I say all that to.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Say I'm not a I'm not I'm not soft. When
it came to the to the weather. We moved to Toronto.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Man, we playing that Gray Cup bro Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
It was like negative something fahrenheit. And this is what
I remember the most. It was the first time that
I saw and experienced how the temperature had got so
cold that.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
It changed the composition of the leather.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
It was like the leather it was like instead of
it being like just cold leather, it was it almost
had a consistency of glass. And so that stood out
to me the most. And we won that game and
it was fun.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
And like I said, next thing, you know, I'm in
Los Angeles.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
And you go from there right exactly two extremes back
to LA That's right.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Yo, Now watch this, watch this. Man.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Let me tell you something. I and this is hindsight.
I didn't realize it at the time, but man, when
you go from say the first third of my football
life was all cold weather states, and so all you're
used to it is no big deal, except for when
the leather turns the glass.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Then we get to Los Angeles.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Man, man, it's so this is such a lesson from this.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
I remember in Los Angeles. I didn't know it, but
I was.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
I was losing my mental toughness and I was in
an environment where it just seemed like it was normal.
Was just a normal part of it. And this is
how I how I uh or I realized it. When
you're in Los Angeles and it's like seventy degrees you
know every day, you know, the sun is out, nice breeze,
(24:28):
so forth and so on. It's like any extreme weather,
whether it's cold or the extreme cold or the extreme hot.
It's like you're not used to it. And I remember, man,
and and this is our environment is so it's so important, man,
(24:52):
if you ever get a chance, study epigenetics, and that's
the effect that the environment has on your your genes,
your d And so I remember when the schedule were
released in the off season.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
It used to be a big deal.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Guys would gather around and you know, they'd look at
the schedule and they'd be like, oh, we're going here,
We're going here.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
We're going here. And I remember the ritual in Los
Angeles was we.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Would after an off season workout, everybody would come around,
the schedule be released, and it was like when I
was in LA, it was like the mindset was that
the league office was against us, and I think that
came down from mister Davis, and we would be looking
(25:41):
at the schedule, and on the schedule they would say, okay,
say if we had to go play in Miami or
I don't know if if the Cardinals were in Arizona
at this time or not, but if we had to
go down, say to Miami, and we had to go
to Miami, and like the first within the first quarter
(26:04):
of the season, man, every this is this would be
the reaction. Oh yeah, yeah, I know the league is
against us now because look they got us going down
to Miami. It's gonna be ninety eight degrees with one
hundred percent of humidity, and they got the game schedule
at twelve in afternoon, or they don't want us to win.
The car just stacked against us, and so I'm just
(26:25):
soaking all.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Of this in, like, oh, okay, well, the NFL is
against it.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Okay, man, well, and it must be bad if we're
going to I mean, I.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Guess who is the main guy talking like that?
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Broh, no names on the camera, everybody, if I'm telling you, everybody,
bro everybody around us were either Hall of Fame or somebody.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
If you know the Raiders, you.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Would early nineties Raiders, you might. You got some guys
on that team. Now you know he out there. You
got some guys, right, Yes, you got a quarterback during
that time, Jeff George.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
No, I was so I was Hostetler. Actually I just
missed Marinovich. Hostetler was there, and so let me finish
the story though, because this is important. So uh, it
would be the same thing if we were going to
play a cold weather game in December, or they got
us going up the Buffalo, or they got us going
out the Green Bay and the last game of the year.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Whatever.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
And so suddenly, internally for me, instead of instead of
having an attitude like, man, no matter what comes, I'm
gonna overcome the opposition, overcome the obstacle, I'm going to
meet the challenge head on, whatever, it was like suddenly
I was like, why are they doing this to us?
This doesn't man, this isn't fair, like that was my
(27:57):
subtle mentality, and I didn't realize that I'd never had
that mindset before and that it was a part of deconstructing,
deconstructing what I now understand as mental toughness. Mental toughness
is like, Okay, there's opposition and it's not going to
(28:19):
be easy, but we got a chance. We can, we can,
we can meet the challenge that was that started going
out the window. And I didn't watch this. I didn't
fully realize it until we got to Carolina. And when
I got to Carolina, everybody, First of all, the way
the team was constructed. They took the majority of their
(28:42):
their especially their defensive guys from like the forty nine ers,
who were like dynasty, uh, the Saints who had or
some some vicious defenses back in the day.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
And it was one other team Pittsburgh, the Stellers.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
The Stellers who always had a even if their their
their season wasn't what they wanted there, they always were
are resilient mentally tough like they were trying to get
back to that dynasty level. And so I remember my
first off season with the Panthers. I just come from
Carolina and mine. I mean, la, mind you, I'm not
(29:19):
aware that I'm now infected with this this virus that
is no longer mentally tough.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
So we come into I come into the off.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Season and the schedules released, and so I come in
and now when I come into locker room, I just
come from the Raiders.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
So I come from like.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
A noteworthy team in the NFL. And then I'm not
too far removed from the from Notre Dame. So a
lot of the young guys, they're like, oh, yo, that's
rocking this blah blah blah. So I'm now holding court
and so we.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
Get out the shower and I come over and I
look at the schedule.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
And I start saying the same thing that was normal
in the environment that I just came from. And I'm
telling you, I'm going down making every excuse why we're
not going to win this game, why this game is
gonna be too tough, why these guys are did blah
blah blah blah blah. Man in the background, it was
(30:23):
Eric Davis, who was forty nine ers, Kevin Green who
was Pittsburgh, Sam Mills who was the Saints toy cook
forty nine ers, Brent Maxey, he was the Saints, and
it was other linebacker Lamar lath Yo. So they're just
(30:49):
listening to what I say, and I'm going through my
spill and like these little cats, young cats, there are
everything I say I can tell there like listening to.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Me, like, oh, this is the gospel, This is the truth, man,
this is the NFL. Bruh.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
All of a sudden and out of the back of
the crowd, I heard a voice go rocket Man said,
let me tell you a little your little butt something.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Here's a different word, he said, let me tell you
a little butt something.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
He said, any of those game you think we can win,
you keep your little butt at home because we're gonna
win all these games.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
I'm tired of this mindset with blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
And he starts rebuking me, and I'm like, wait, what
did I say wrong? And then I realize he's pointing
out that unwittingly, I have been a participant and now
an evangelist for a losing mentally weak mentality.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
So hold on now, okay.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
No, Sam, Sam was quiet. That was another lesson I
learned from Sam. Sam was quiet. This was Eric Davis.
He was a dB that was with Carolina and he's
the one who stepped up.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
I mean, Kevin Green. All of them were.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
There, but they were like, yeah, what he said, he
was They were looking. It was like they were giving
me subtle respect. But I think Eric Davis because he
was with the forty nine ers and the forty nine
ers win.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
That's really good. That's really good to hear because it
does take.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
It takes, you know, guys to have the courage to
step up and say something when needed be because if not,
it turns into something bigger than it needs to be.
I look at the situation with DeAndre Campbell for the
forty nine ers. Don't know if you're tracking that, but
what's happening. But he walked off the field this past game.
The forty nine ers were in mid game and he
(32:51):
obviously you know how depth charts work with guys that
think they should be playing.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
He didn't have. He was third string.
Speaker 4 (32:59):
Right, it's coming off and jury and then so your
vet and deserves. He thinks he deserves to play right rightfully,
so everybody should be playing with the thought process of
I should be playing. But mid game he walks off
the field. But there's an interview question to Bosa, and
Bosa has had said, Yeah, I kind of recognized something
(33:19):
was off with him. You know, he was saying things
pre game, before the game about how he was upset about,
you know, the rotation and whatnot. He didn't say anything right,
And I look at your situation, Eric Campbell like, hey, look, youngster,
before we get this ship going, we're gonna we're gonna
(33:41):
make sure we plug up all the holes.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
And in Carolina at that time, as you mentioned the
expansion Draft, the guys that they're bringing in are that
are the Vets that can play ball. And all those
names you just mentioned are all solidified household names in
the NFL during their tenure. Uh some home.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
And check this out.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
In that moment, it was like I had an epiphany
and I finally understood what teams. So back when I
was playing teams that won the Super Bowl, there would
always be a team. I'm not always, but a majority
of time, there would be a team that would pay
(34:23):
somebody who was like maybe a second tier guy, or
maybe a nickel guy or a dime guy or a
special team guy. They would pay somebody that played on
a super Bowl winning team for you know, a lot
of money for back then, and it used to bewilder
me and almost everybody in the media.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
They're like, why they're paying this guy so much money?
Speaker 2 (34:47):
He wasn't even the man on his team even though
they won a Super Bowl. But I realized that what
they were trying to do was they were trying to
get somebody that came from a winning culture, that had
hopefully the winning d n A and the mindset in
his heart and brain to come into their organization because
(35:10):
they knew in order for them to get to the
Super Bowl to start being perennial winners, that they needed
to change the environment culture and they were hoping that
they could accomplish it with what's one of these guys?
Speaker 1 (35:23):
That's right, And that's that's consistent with with who we
had on last week. He was in here last week,
that's right. So so you know, as you're talking about
building the culture, building the locker room, and the type
of players that they were bringing in, that's consistent, right,
and and and even you know, prior to doing the
little preparation, prior to having Stone in the room, I
(35:43):
reached out to Brentson Buckner. I said, but why don't
you tell me something about Stoney, he said, Man, I
don't got no stories. Stoney came in, took care of business,
went home. He was a pros pro. Right, those are
the guys that they brought to Carolina during that time.
The Wesley Walls, the dwy Stone went and draft you know,
the Sam Mills, Kevin Greens. Right, so that roster, you know. So,
(36:07):
so you guys had a You guys had a heck
of a lineup, man, And there's many more to to
go ahead and recognize too. You know, there's one guy
that I made note of too. They don't want to
talk about since as you are a speedy kick returner,
punk returner. You also had Michael Bates.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Who who would win that race? Wait, no, no, So
Mike is gonna win everything. It's going to be close
in one hundred. He's gonna win everything above a hundred.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
He is strong.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
I want you to tell me about Mike, because I
think Michael is a guy who often doesn't get the recognition,
but it's more than deserving. And so just tell me.
When you got here to Carolina and you show up
and you and you come up against a guy that
was that talented, how did he make you better? Well,
just what was your when you're observing him as an athlete?
Speaker 3 (37:02):
Observing him? So he was a tweeterer guy. He had
the body of a of a of a tailback. He
had the speed of a receiver, and but he had
the toughness like he was.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Man, I remember when he played with Seattle when we man,
that bro lit me up on a couple of hands
teams on side kicks.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Oh my god. However, the case that I would hope.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
And historian for the Panthers would put together for Michael
Bates is you know how in this was? Uh, what's
the brother who just went into the Hall of Fame
for the returns? How Devin has what Devin Hester did
(37:51):
for kickoff returns on on a special team level, Mike
did on every single special teams like he's on that level.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
Man, oh man, I would. I don't know how, but
there's some way they must.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
They need to compile all of his special teams that
on kickoff, kickoff return, punt block, punt return, phil goal block.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
Like his prowess was.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
So we've had Like I can tell you this, it's
not lost on anybody in this building. Okay, Okay, now
we are in. You know, our team historian Davi mon
Roe is outstanding. Okay, our beat writer there again. You know,
and those that were around when Michael was playing here,
trust me, we all recognize his impact. And I would
(38:50):
even say there's also those outside of the building because
I know Michael has received votes for the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
So okay, I was just about to say, I was
taking about that. When I saw Devin Hester, I was.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Like, he's a guy who I think just overall when
you think about kick returners and you think about special teamers. Again,
back in the market in Carolina when he played here
in a time where nobody knew what Carolina where Charlotte was.
They weren't really paying attention to the Panthers like that.
In the grand scheme, He's not the first name that
might come to the top of a lot of people's lists, right.
(39:22):
You might hear that you got the Devin Hesters, You're
gonna have the Mass Slaters, You're gonna have the Steve Taskers,
these guys who were reaching Super Bowls year over year
over year,
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