Wonder and a Will to Live: Merrill Garbus on Whiteness, Grief, and Practice

In this episode of Stories That Stay, hosts Shamm H. Petros and Dwight Dunston talk with musician and producer Merrill Garbus, the creative force behind Tune-Yards. Together they explore how early memories of difference—body, race, and class—shape our sense of belonging and the lifelong practice of racial literacy.

Through honest reflection, Merrill names feelings of fear, avoidance, gratitude, grief, and curiosity, and locates where they live in her body. With Shamm and Dwight’s guidance, she practices staying with discomfort, noticing dissociation, and finding compassion in the act of awareness.

Their conversation moves through generational stories, inherited fear, and the daily discipline of return. Merrill speaks about creative practice as a form of survival and the courage to keep working even when hope feels elusive.

          “What if I don’t need hope? I need wonder and a will to live.”
          “I want to keep the story as it is—that’s the helpful information.”

What you’ll hear
• Grounding breath and mindful arrival
• Earliest memories of difference
• Naming and scaling emotions
• Somatic awareness and ancestral connection
• Closing reflections on practice, compassion, and wonder

About Merrill Garbus
Merrill Garbus is a musician, composer, and producer best known for the experimental pop project Tune-Yards. She has collaborated with Mavis Staples, Yoko Ono, Laurie Anderson, and filmmaker Boots Riley. Living in Oakland, California, Merrill continues to create music and community rooted in curiosity, accountability, and the ongoing practice of growth.

Mentioned resources

•  My Grandmother’s Hands by Resmaa Menakem — somatic practices for racialized trauma: https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/55183932-my-grandmother-s-hands
•  Tune-Yards Official Site: https://tune-yards.com/

Stories That Stay is a project of Lion’s Story, a nonprofit dedicated to building racial literacy through storytelling, mindfulness, and healing. Rooted in over 35 years of research by Dr. Howard C. Stevenson at the University of Pennsylvania, our work guides individuals and institutions to reclaim their stories, reduce identity-based stress, and step into authentic inclusion—not as a checklist, but as a way of being.

Produced and edited by Peterson Toscano.
Mindful moment music by Dwight Dunston.
Music by Epidemic Sound.

Podcast site: StoriesThatStay.net

Hosts: Shamm Petros and Dwight Dunston