Relationship Advice and Military Stories While Playing Chess - Jay Johnson - Substratum 611

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
This is the longest game I've played in years.
Well, I also take way too much time trying to make sure I do
both podcast and chess. If you review the results and
you're like, hey, we weren't as flowy as we should have, No, no,
no, we can always do it again later.
What I like about this episode over other ones that there is

(00:22):
there's one thing tying everything together, and that's
the chess game. It's like it partially there's
distraction, but also it's just authentic.
Like I don't regret playing the board, I just wish I could be a
little bit better at asking questions.
That was a long game. No.
What? Yeah.
White White A is to the left, remember?

(00:45):
All right, Round 2. Round two, bro, you know I
fucking I do not have the capacity like there's no upside
to playing you again. There's no upside to playing you
again right now. All right, you.
Have more chocolate than me, Notlike that.
I didn't say I wasn't going to give it to you anyway.

(01:11):
Alright, What you got brother? How did you how'd you meet Dave?
So this would have been in 2010.Both of us were stationed in
this place called Camp Lejeune, NC.
Maybe they started calling Camp Lejeune again.
I don't fucking know. By the way, I had been doing
mixed martial arts or, well, Jiujitsu, Muay Thai training for

(01:33):
the better part of a year or so at that point.
And at that point in time, Dave had been a professional
kickboxer, Thai boxer, and has since retired, joined the Marine
Corps. He was an infantryman, machine
gunner, if I am recalling correctly.
And I was a logistics officer, newly minted and, and we both

(01:55):
ended up stationed on the same base.
So I'm not sure. I'm not sure how familiar you
are with military bases, generally speaking, but Camp
Lejeune's like fucking huge, right?
So there's places like that. You have the division, which is
the infantry that they're on oneside of the base, so to speak.
And you have like the support battalions or the support, let's

(02:16):
see regiment, support regiments that are on the other side.
So I was at one of the support regiments on the other side of
the base. And one of the great things
about being in the military is that you often get perks that
people have to pay a lot for that you can get for free,
right? So a gym membership you get for
free, like medical care you don't get for free, but you pay
a reduced rate comes out of yourcheck.
You don't even know that you're paying it really unless you're
smart enough to really look intothose things, etcetera.

(02:39):
You get education benefits. So one of the things we had, it
was called MWR and I can't remember what the acronym means,
but one of the benefits was we can go and we could train
martial arts and we can also have our family members train.
So you have people who would show up.
And I had gotten to my DO station.
I decided, all right, well, I'vetrained a little bit.
I want to continue this on because I want to be a badass
and I don't want to be able to get my ass beat my 140 LB guy

(03:00):
anymore. So I went and there was this
Muay Thai coach by the name of David Porter.
Oh no. And I was like, all right.
And he was a big dude. He's like 215 lbs.
And he was stronger than I was. And at the time, I think I was
still bench pressing. I think my Max was somewhere
around 385 or so at the time. He was stronger than me and I

(03:20):
was like shit. And he could kick boy, he could
he feel like he could punch, buthe could fucking kick, dude.
He kicked Hardy shit. And this thing was he would lay
kick the shit out of people. We had this thing he called like
a he used to use a tank analogy.He'd be like you have a mobility
kill and then I forgot the otherpart.
He said mobility kill and then like not catastrophic kill, but

(03:41):
basically like when you an actual kill, right.
So you kill the mobility, you take the tracks off the tank and
afterwards just a sitting duck and then you can like actually
kill everyone of the occupants if you will, right.
So you teach an inside outside akick like and he used to fuck
people up with it like and he did jiu jitsu as well and he
hated jiu jitsu, but he was goodat it.
He was a blue butter at the timeand he used to just RIP cores on

(04:03):
people, mainly me, other people as well.
But me dude probably caught me afucking 100 Kimuras, man.
Like I swear, it's like if he ifhe did like this, it was fucking
over and he was so strong and I was just like, I remember just
trying to fight my way out of it.
Like I shit you not, if he caught me in 100 Kimuras, I
think I got out of this many of them right.

(04:25):
So it's like it's like man fuck.And I used to try and go people
for the hell of it as well. And then he also taught
something called the Impaler back in the day as well.
And I think I remember when he first taught the DARS that, I
imagine it was when he first taught the DARS, it was actually
something similar to ghost escape, or it may have been a

(04:47):
ghost escape DARS, but he taughtthat like taught that in 2010,
maybe 2011. I think it may have been 11 when
he came back from deployment. But either way, he ended up
deploying because in the Marinkawe all deployed, right?
So he deployed and he came back and then all of a sudden he had
fallen in love with jujitsu, gotinto purple bow and shit,
started competing in jujitsu competitions and did that, and

(05:11):
then that became his thing. What would you say Dave's
character was at the time? Fucking asshole.
Nah, that was done. So I so before this I was at
xcal and Dave did that was like,I told him that I was going to
interview you today. And then he was like, oh man,
ask him about me back when we met him.
The Dave y'all know right now isa genuine A genuinely caring

(05:36):
adult I. Know it's terrible.
But they didn't give a fuck man.It was bad.
Like he, he wasn't. To be fair, he wasn't in a
position where he should have given a fuck, right?
So I'm not saying that as a pejorative, like he was a bad
person, like mid to late 20s, like he was in the Marine Corps.
He was a fucking machine gunner.He was an infantry man.

(05:56):
Like give a fuck about people's safety, dude.
Like you, you're over here. Your mission in life is to
fucking kill people. Like so you're underlying people
and you want me to be concerned about your health when I kick
you? Like get the fuck out here.
You signed up for this shit. You're a grown ass man.
What was, I don't think we had any woman in there.
We had like to you're a grown ass man.
You signed up for this shit. You're in the Marine Corps.

(06:17):
Like deal with it. And that was fuck people up.
Wasn't nice, man. He was a good dude.
Yeah, Dave, Dave's always been agood dude, but he didn't give a
fuck. He gave a fuck.
He's too reckless as hell, too, man.
Like he, like he tells you, we used to do flying legs, scissors
on people on each other all the time.

(06:39):
Like we had this thing in the gym where it's like no one's
safe, right? And it didn't like anytime.
Like we could have been there for 2 minutes.
We could have been there for three hours.
We could be backed in the sauna.It's like back around the sauna.
We didn't do it in the sauna, but right outside of the sauna.
They had weights back there as well.
It was crowded as fuck. Like more crowded thinness,
whatever. Like we didn't give a fuck dude.
Like it was just no one safe. So to take down this is like

(06:59):
shit. But we never got injured
ironically, so that was cool. Yeah.
Do you have any cool military stories?
Cool. Military Stories I.
Don't want the trash ones, I want the cool ones.
Funny stories. I'm trying to see if I can tell
this without saying names. You you can improvise.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I had this one Marine that

(07:22):
probably he he he didn't, he didn't sabotage my career or
anything like that, but he got me in more trouble than I
otherwise would have been in, right.
Because he was mine. Just.
So we're gonna call him. He was a corporal at the time.
We call him Corporal T, Right. And I was Lieutenant J and
there's another character name Sergeant D.

(07:45):
OK, what what's what's the the difference?
The ranks? Yeah.
Like is it like 3 ranks difference or?
You know, so I knows I was a platoon commander at the time.
So I'm the think lower level managerial class, if you will.
And he's called it lower to almost mid, lower mid level

(08:06):
enlisted, if you will. Corporal.
Yeah. So by the way, we, so I, I tell
you 2 occasions about him, right.
One of them was probably the funnier of the two.
I don't know which one was funnier.
So we were deployed on a, on, ona ship in the Mediterranean.

(08:28):
We crossed the South across the Atlantic and then we went to the
Mediterranean, did training and everything off the coast of
Northern Africa. And my commanding officer, a
battalion commander, rather, he was a Lieutenant Colonel, which
is up there as far as military rank is concerned, at least, at
least comparatively speaking to a Lieutenant and everyone else
in the battalion. And at that point in time, then

(08:51):
there was this trend going around the Marine Corps where
people would take off the chevrons when they got them or
whoever was replacing the chevrons, and they would throw
the old ones away. Because there are a lot of
demotions that occur in the Marine Corps, right?
So it was like, hey, me throwingthis away is symbolizing that
I'm never going to see this rankagain or you're never going to
see this rank again, which hopefully not.

(09:12):
For some reason, my CEO got mad at that.
And he was just like, hey, and he told us that morning, so
we're on a ship. We had two meetings every
fucking day while we were deployed.
It was fucking so in a meeting that morning, right, like before
all the shit we were going to dothat day training, right?
Then he told us, Hey, we have promotion ceremonies today.
I'm going to let you guys promote your own Marines, have
your own individual ceremonies. But I've seen this from

(09:36):
everywhere from E1 or from E2 toE7.
And it's disrespectful to the rank.
It's disrespectful to this. I don't want to see this
anymore. So make sure it doesn't happen
at least. Roger that.
I Sir. And I swear, I, I'm pretty sure
I conveyed that messaging to my platoon, right?
Like I thought I did, really thought I did.
Apparently not. And this is it for the record,

(09:57):
as I'm telling the story, this is my fault, right?
This is I, I should have made sure it didn't happen to CEO
said don't, don't let this happen.
I should have made sure it didn't happen, right.
So we're on a ship and there's several levels to the ship, but
the highest level, at least on the ship that I was on, it was
called the O3 level. And it gives you the most
beautiful view, right? Because you can go around and if
you can pan around, you can see the, the sea or the ocean all

(10:17):
the way around you, right? So it's absolutely fucking
gorgeous. It was a sunny day.
It was fucking great, man. And I had this, had two Marines
getting promoted, one would havebeen Lance Corporal.
Oh, he's getting promoted from Lance Corporal to Corporal,
we'll call him soon to be Corporal O And the other one was
making Lance Corporal for the second time, right?

(10:39):
Got demoted and then going. Yes, yes, got promoted for the
second time to Lance Corporal and we'll call him Lance
Corporal B, right. And then there's I mentioned
corporate tea, right? So you can pick who you want to
pin on your rank in the ceremony.
So Long story short, I'm gettingup there.
My platoon Sergeant standing to the right or left, I can't

(11:01):
fucking remember. He reads the promotion warrant.
I'm standing at the position of attention.
I'm proud. Like the sun's in my eyes, not
my platoon's eyes, because that's how you're supposed to do
it. In and out of my periphery, I
see my CEO came up to join the ceremony.
I don't pay any attention. Doing my thing, whatever the
case may be. My 2 Marines come up like
morning, Saturday, salute. I salute back and we're we're
we're pinning them so the first one who you want to pin you.
They say who they wanted to promote them or pin their

(11:23):
chevrons on. They do it, they salute, they
walk off. I asked the other one who would
you like to promote you? Corporal T and Corporal are Sir
Roger the visor fuck that right.They come up and salute.
Good morning, Sir, good morning,good afternoon.
Whatever it was, salute and I have this speech prepared of how
great they've they've done and how proud I am of Lance Corporal
B for making it a second time and not fucking up and whatever.

(11:46):
And as they are finishing up, then I see, I see Corporal T
grab the Chevron, right? And he cuts back and I'm at the
position of attention, right? So like, you know what time
dilation is, right? Yeah, your perception of time.
Yeah, slows, slows like and actually, and actually, I think

(12:06):
more scientifically, it's like your brain starts to process
really, really quickly based off.
Like in combat situations. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that shit is actually real. It's not as dramatic as it is in
the movies, right? But it there is an element of it
that does happen, right? So time dilation occurred in
that moment, right? Like he started to pull back and
in my head I'm like, fuck, no, Oh my God.
Because he he launches each other into the Mediterranean

(12:29):
Sea. I'm like, fuck, Oh my gosh.
So then so I had a speech prepared, right?
I'm just like, I'm giving the command.

(12:51):
Congratulate the Marie's Air promoted Fallout or dismissed or
whatever the fuck I say. Right, So they go and my platoon
Sergeant gathers them around andfucking starts berating the
other one. But I look to my right and my
battalion commander's like fuck,right?
So. So at least that at least with
him in the obstacle, whenever hewas pleased with me, then he'd

(13:13):
come by our first name, right? So it'd be like JJJJJ, right?
When he was displeased, it was Lieutenant J, right?
Like my last name, he's like Lieutenant J.
And I fucking tell you to just do this.
And I was just like, yes, Sir, yes, Sir.
You did. No, no risk.
Like you. Fuck it.
Oh my gosh, it was right. So yeah, I got in trouble for
that one. That's a funny story.

(13:35):
And whatever. So after he got done yelling at
me, then he left and I walked over to my Marines and and I was
known for being aggressive, right?
Like I didn't hate I may have hazed my marines one time in a
fuck. I I could talk about it on
camera wasn't too bad. But there there's one time when
I did some shit that like had the wrong person been there and

(13:55):
I'll tell you what it is. So that way nobody thinks it's
some type of stupid ass conspiracy, but I used to sit
there and like threaten them. I'd say shit like I'm gonna
fucking drown you, I'm gonna kick you in your fucking chest.
I'm choke the shit out of you, whatever the case may be, right.
And I had my, and at that point in time, I have been doing
martial arts for a little bit. So I was a better fighter than a
lot of people. And my platoon Sergeant was a

(14:17):
Marine Corps martial arts instructor, so he could organize
grappling matches. So I really would choke the shit
out of my Marines, right. It was funny, but I was so I
walked up and like they're like in a school circle and turned it
on his on one knee. And I fucking look at him and he
knows I'm upset. And he took the, he got the

(14:37):
other Chevron. And like I, I looked at him.
He was like, Sir, I'm sorry, please don't kick me in my
fucking chest. He had taken the other Chevron.
He had stuck it into his thumb. Oh.
And I just melted. I was like, it's like fucking go
downstairs. And I was like, fucking like, so
that was it, right? So that was one time and then

(14:58):
the other time was probably worse career wise, like,
although my CEO never really addressed it, but so we were
doing an operation where we were, we were finishing up a
filled up and I think we were inSpain.
And like I had the motor transport platoon.
So they had to load all the shitup on my trucks and we had to
make different like we'll call them nuts sorties with trips

(15:21):
down into the beach. It was like maybe a mile or two
in between, like the area where we like camping and operating
out of and the beach. So the landing support platoon
commander, then she stopped my trucks from being able to come
back and forth and we didn't actually get along that well at
that point in time. So I thought she was fucking
with me or fucking with my Marines know what to fuck with
me. So I got mad and I couldn't get

(15:42):
her on the radio. So I asked my Marines like, what
the fuck's going on down there? Like why aren't y'all back
'cause we have shit to do. Like we're supposed to embark by
this time and I'm not getting information.
So I hop in the truck with my paternal Sergeant.
I'm like, Dang, fucking let's go, we're going down there,
right? So I have piston vinegar and I
roll up. And as I roll up, I realized
that the entire battalion landing team is doing a ship to
shore like operation, right? So they're, they're, they're

(16:06):
training and stimulating an amphibious assault, which means
nothing on the beach needs to move, which makes perfect
fucking sense. So I get it immediately and I'm
like, oh, I'm gonna shut the fuck up, right.
So as I get it and I roll up andI park and we have not only my
battalion commander, who's a Lieutenant Colonel, another
battalion commander who's the infantry, but the Lieutenant
Colonel and then a major who's the infantry executive officer,

(16:30):
right? So three people who severely
fucking outranked me at this time, at this time, I'm still
second Lieutenant, right? So I get out and I walk up to to
Corporal T and he's like in a loud voice.
He's like, Oh my. He's like, thank effing God,
like Lieutenant J, Sergeant D, I'm so glad you're here.

(16:50):
You're the smartest fucking people on this beach.
And all three field grade officers look at not not him,
but me. I'm like, oh, fuck it.
I was like, I was like, fucking get I'm talking about suicide.
I'm like, get him. Fuck.
I can't get a good snap right now.
But I was like, fucking get him right now, right?
And then I just look, I apologies, gentlemen.

(17:14):
I was like, fuck, what the fuck is wrong with you, bro?
So yeah, man, it was fun. It was funny.
Those situations were so let's yeah, that was probably got me
yeah, because your your people are a reflection of you.

(17:35):
And when they do some fucked up shit, then you're like, yeah,
yeah. And then on top of that, then
there's also. So I mentioned the hazing
incident, right. So prior to deploying, there's
something called ISO preps that you do, which is basically you
go in and I forget if it's a, I don't think it's a bracelet.
It's some shit where they put like information like for

(17:56):
emergencies, medical information.
I think like next not next to kin shit but something basically
if you die with like well whoever it is.
Like a dog tag. No, no, you have dog tags.
I can't remember exactly what itis, but it's some some shit to
like something bad happens to you right?
Like this is in case of that right?
And that don't quote me. Look at fucking ChatGPT that
shit or something. Either way we're doing ISO

(18:17):
preps. But only one like so many people
can come in at a time right? I haven't stopped bringing my
entire platoon over there. Let's say it's like 3-3 squads
of forget how many people I think.
I think my platoon was like third.
Excuse me 32 or 33. Excuse me.
Well, either way, one out of my 3 squads is in there.
I'm there in front of this formation.

(18:38):
And my platoon Sergeant was actually in there as well with
the first, the first squad. So my Marines are being young
Marines, they're standing in formation, but they're at rest
doing whatever the fuck they want.
And I'm standing there. I don't know what the fuck I'm
doing. I think I was playing on my
phone, not once. And I don't remember because my
phone wasn't, it wasn't a smartphone back then.
I don't know what the fuck I wasdoing, but either way, they're

(18:59):
throwing rocks at each other, right?
So me understanding how young Marines are, I'm like, hey,
agents, have fun and tell you right now, don't let a rock come
anywhere near me. Right.
And maybe I shouldn't have said that, all right, because.
But they should have. No, no, I'm their officer.
Yeah. Fucking 30 seconds to a minute

(19:19):
later, Pebble or rock skips right past him.
Good to go. I'm like, so you, you know, the
utility uniform, like camis, like whatever.
So we have on boots we have on like blouses and shit like that.
I'm like, all right, boots and utes right.
So that's the one we can do whenwe do like think of a Tough
Mudder run or some shit like that.
Like you can just take off your blouse and your top and then you

(19:40):
have, I'm sorry, your blouse andyour cover and then you can go
for a run with those. So you're running in boots.
It's harder than running in tennis shoes, if that makes
sense. Right.
So I'm like, all right, de blouse and it's and I was like,
and then get column of twos, right.
So column of twos is basically forming up for for a run.
And then it's so fucking hilarious because as soon as I

(20:02):
said that and one of my marines went and punched another one in
his stomach hard as fuck. So I knew who threw the rock,
right. So he doubled over and I just
smirked a little bit that I was in the front.
That was a really fucking great running shape.
Then right like fucking I was running like AI was running like
a 1745 three mile right like so fucking.

(20:24):
Fucking murdered them for like 2miles.
Like I just took off and they just had to keep up.
A couple of them threw up, we didn't and we made it back and
then I pulled some bullshit of like hey like if y'all were
wondering we were just we had white space and we decided to PT
good to go. It's like watching that search.

(20:45):
So. So technically, that was hazing.
That was technically that was hazing.
Yeah. It doesn't sound like it would
be hit. It sounds like a disciplinary.
Action. It was disciplinary, but it was
physical discipline due to an infraction, which is against the
Uniform Code of Military Justiceoutside of boot camp.
So it was hazing. Oh, interesting.
That's the only time I did it OK, and it was quite some time.
Yeah, I don't know. Statute of limitations and

(21:05):
pretty sure and you get to. Review the footage before it
gets. Public, I don't give a fuck with
it but I'm just saying. It was funny as shit though.
When he punched over the stomach, I was like.
Yeah, I'm, I'm thinking like hazing, like the the bad kind of
hazing where like someone's likephysically in danger.
This sounds like more of just like a run.
It was just like it was a run. Like a, it was a very fast run.
Yeah, OK, very fast. Like I was faster than
everybody. So there was 1 Marine in Muppets

(21:27):
when that was faster than me. So yeah, one yeah was.
There anything you wanted to talk about?
No man, I think I'm is. There anything on here that you
would want to go back to that maybe you touched on but you'd
want to go more in depth on? I'm I'm of the impression that
we're going to need one without a chess, without a chess set I.
I saw a chess set and I was like, I'm going to play.

(21:48):
Yeah, yeah. Now I regret it because now I
don't have one on you. Now.
Now I'm in a deficiency. So now I like it.
Now. Yeah, I know you like it, of
course. We covered accountability over
excuses, courtesy over dominance.
You really talk about that too much.
But I think that's kind of self-explanatory, right?
And you talk about, I think in the type, I think courtesy over

(22:11):
dominance is more so who do you want to be, right?
Be the type of person that you want to be.
And I think that's something that also comes with growth.
Like when you're younger than you're trying to make it in the
world and you find yourself trying to enforce your world
upon others in order to make life more of what you want it to
be. Then you get to a point of
certain of where you have a certain amount of competence and

(22:33):
you're skilled and you understand how to navigate and
you're like, OK, well, like I can be nice to people or I don't
have to put on this persona. And maybe that's more what it is
like to the point of not having anything to prove.
Like when I was younger, I wouldwalk around and I would be ready
to fight at the drop of a dime or like, you know, have a chip

(22:54):
on my shoulders. Like I am this guy.
Like I believe I'm this guy. So therefore I have to prove I'm
this guy. Whereas now, you know, to prove
shit and I don't have anything to prove.
There's no. One to prove it to you.
I'm fine, yeah. Was that more of is that
possibly that because of your childhood that you wanted to you
wanted to get back the self esteem that you didn't have?

(23:15):
I don't think I thought about itfrom standpoint of childhood.
I always fought when bullies fucked with me.
So I think it was more so just coming from a situation where I
had to fight all that time. And I'll be in a situation and
then that transferred over into a situation where I was
expecting to fight. So I'll look for excuses to look

(23:35):
for reasons to, and then now I'mto the point where I look for
reasons not to, if that makes sense.
And to be frank, very rarely do I find myself in a situation
where someone decides I'm the one they want to start a fight
with, fortunately enough. So yeah, discipline over

(23:56):
motivation that they just, people can talk about that a
lot, a lot more in depth than I can.
But generally speaking, motivation comes and goes,
right? And motivation can change.
Yeah. So it's about discipline.
Like one of the things I am goodat is saying fuck how I feel in
most, most circumstances, specifically when it comes to

(24:17):
things physically doesn't matterif I don't feel like working out
today. Like if like there's there's a
fine line. There are sometimes when it's
just like you're injured and if you do this, you're going to,
you're going to fuck yourself upworse.
So don't, right. But generally speaking, it's
more so like, fuck how you feel,do this or do something else,
but you're going to do somethingthat sucks.
You're going to do something to make yourself uncomfortable, and

(24:37):
you're going to persevere because that's just what you do
and your feelings don't have anything to do with it.
So. Do you have a separation between
feelings and emotions or they synonyms for you?
Yeah, feelings and emotions. So for instance, I have no
emotion to working out. Like I have no emotion tied to
like, OK, tomorrow morning I'm going to wake up and I'm a jog
two or three mouse, right? Like I'm not going to feel like

(25:01):
it, but it's not going to have shit do with my emotions, if you
will. It's just going to be like I'm
tired or, you know, I it's cold outside and those are our
emotions. So in that sense, you had a
complete They're not conflated. So your feelings are what would
get you back to your comfort level and your emotions are?
I say emotions are a lot more difficult to combat than

(25:22):
feelings are, for me at least. Right?
Like a feeling I can make myselfjust I can say fuck a feeling,
right? And I can just persevere.
You can persevere despite an emotion as well, right?
But I can say fuck a feeling like it doesn't matter what I
feel and be good. It's much more difficult for me
to be like I'm hurt right now emotionally.

(25:45):
Fuck it. It doesn't matter if I am
emotional. Get over it, right?
Like it doesn't. It's not as easy.
That makes sense. And then you say journey over
reward, that's a delayed gratification versus instant.
But no, no journey, like, yeah, that's interesting.
So I would say like with journey, when you look at I am
of the mindset now that there are very few things in life

(26:07):
where I am super concerned with the end destination because the
end destination comes and it goes.
And once you reach a destinationor once you reach a goal, then
there's just another one, right?And there's, there will always
be another 1. And I believe I mentioned before
that I wished away my 20s. Or when I say wished away my

(26:32):
20s, I mean, I spent my 20s not being able to wait until the
next rank, the next duty station, next this, the next
milestone that I accomplished. And it's just like, all right,
what I do next, what I do next, what I do next.
You find yourself, if you're always looking towards the
future, then you don't get to enjoy the present as much as you
should. And I think that's where I got
into the enjoying the journey portion of it, where it's just

(26:53):
like, all right, yeah, I want toget to a certain place.
I want to achieve these goals but I want to enjoy myself along
the way, so I think that's how Igot there.
What's the difference between being present but also not being
complacent? You can be both present and
complacent. I think that's not merely being
present and still moving towardssomething is I'm still taking

(27:17):
the steps in order to ensure a future right.
So for, for instance, career wise, one of the approaches that
I've had for a long time is thatI don't concern myself much with
what's the next position. I'm going to move on, when's the
next promotion, right when I'm going to get this title.
I believe that if I do a good job and if I am an intentional

(27:37):
about making sure that I am prepared and I've checked all
the boxes via education, training, etcetera, my
reputation, then wouldn't the right opportunity presents
itself, then I'll be ready to step through that door.
So it allows me to be present ina sense of let me focus on what
I'm doing right now and let me not stress about the future in
that regard. But I'm not complacent, because

(27:59):
it's not as though I'm sitting here doing nothing to prepare,
right? So you're you replace
complacency with preparation. Yes.
OK, yeah. And how do you distinguish
preparation and also giving yourself enough, giving yourself
enough time to take breaks so you're not you don't get burnt
out. It depends on understanding what

(28:22):
works for you and what you need and how you operate.
So take for instance, like my workout routine, like I today
was a like an active rest day. I biked right?
And it's like just understandingthis is what works for me.
There may be a maybe two weeks from now.
Maybe I need to sit my happy assdown and do absolutely nothing
and it's just understanding like, all right, well, this is

(28:42):
when I need to take a break because I'm I'm experiencing
this amount of fatigue or this amount of burnout, whatever the
case may be. OK.
Do you lean into burnout or do you try to regulate it?
You said do I what? Do you, do you lean into
burnout? Like like whenever I'm working,
like sometimes I'll just, I'll just keep going into burnout.
I'll just like like. No, I'm so glad.
No, no, I don't believe in goinginto the point of diminishing
returns specifically not way anything mentally, physically,

(29:06):
maybe I experienced burnout moreso, but that's usually because
of I, I mean, I need to teach orI need to whatever the case may
be, or I just, I've been injuredand it's not healing quickly
enough. So fuck it, I'm not going to
stop. I'm just going to keep on
whatever and that may lead to it.
So maybe some physically, but less mentally.

(29:28):
Yeah, if I can control it at least.
Like there's sometimes where like there could be something
where it's just like mentally I'm going to get burnt out
because I can't stop it. Are you tired?
Yeah, I actually, yeah. Yeah, I'm tired.
Well it's what, 3 hours now? Shit.
Two hours and 44 minutes, 2 hours and 10 minutes of them or

(29:49):
me? Demolishing me.
No, no, no, I didn't demolish you like I fucking like, bro.
That was it was, too. So what I'm probably going to do
is I'll make this part the beginning, and then I'll put the
first part afterwards. The first part afterwards,
that's fine, that's fine and we can do it.
We can do another one. Just not with chess.
We can do like a workout flock or something, sure, but that's
going to take up more time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(30:11):
With already me my abs. Oh no, I can't do anymore.
Yeah, we can do those. That's fine.
From a podcast standpoint. Like I I realized that I spent
the majority of the time multitasking and that's fine and
trying to figure out. Used to it so like.
Trying to figure out what type of nefarious activity you were
up to. Yeah, that's like fuck that
shit. This.
Is actually a nice set. Oh, thank you, Sir.
All right, so I have two questions.

(30:32):
I ask everyone at the very end, which this would be in the very
beginning of the podcast. What would you, well, I've
already asked you this, but if you want to go back to it, what
would you have told yourself in this case 20 years ago?
And what would you want to tell yourself 10 years from now?
So 20 years ago. Again with the with the

(30:55):
understanding that you can't change what happened, the
butterfly effect and everything you mentioned earlier, which
will be later but. The only way you really feel is
if you stop. The only way you really feel is
if you stop. And it's still a vice.
I still have to tell myself these days when I run into hard
times. I so quick story, I remember I

(31:16):
was going through a very bad breakup.
I was actually, excuse me, I wasgetting ready to exit to Marine
Corps. Like life was going to change a
lot. And it was just, it was really
tough mentally and emotionally. And at the time I was fighting,
so I have to control my weight, right?

(31:37):
And my stupid ass would go to Buffalo Wild Wings and eat 24
wings on a UFC fight, right? And my rule was for every 4
wings I ate before I hit the before I went to sleep, I had to
jog a mile for each four wings, right?
So I get home at like 1:32 AM inthe morning and my stupid ass
would go jogging 6 miles. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(31:59):
And and also I would I was extreme.
I put on like a sauna suit sometimes and like whatever,
right? So I lived on the beach at the
time and to the pure and back is3 is a Six Mile jock, right?
So I ran out to the pier, But when I got to the pier, I felt
OK. So I felt good actually.
So I just kept one. I'm like, fucking, I'm gonna do
an extra 2 miles. So I went another mile out and

(32:21):
I'm coming back and I'm at like maybe the four and a half mile
mark, right. So I'm almost back to the pier,
the pier and my body just crashes and I'm like fuck.
And like when I say I was so tired.
So my options were get naked, basically run back in my boxers.
I didn't probably should have done that if I'm being honest,

(32:41):
right? But I didn't go try and hail
some vehicle down at like 4:00 in the morning on this like like
strip of like 6. I think it's like, oh, for six
miles. It may have been 6 miles, Six
Mile strip where it's like a beach, like little out.
So there's no vehicles, right? It's pre Uber so.

(33:02):
Forgot you're ancient. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So. And I remember thinking like,
fuck, I just like, I can't make it.
Like I'm not gonna make it. And I kind of felt that way
emotionally as well, right. And I remember thinking to
myself, all right, well, stop focusing on getting there.
Take the next step. Like, just take the next step.
Take the next step. Like fuck everything except for

(33:23):
the next step and the next step and the next step and the next
step. And what I found is eventually,
like if you just keep on taking the next step, then eventually
you will get somewhere. But if you focus on, if I focus
on 3 1/2 miles away right now, I'm not gonna fucking make it.
So I thought that was like a metaphor for life at that point

(33:43):
for me where it's just like, allright, well, like the only way I
don't make it or I it unless I quit, I will make it, if that
makes sense. Right.
So just take the next step. Don't focus on the end, the end
destination or everything I haveto overcome.
Just focus on what the next stepneeds to be.

(34:04):
And then 10 years from now, bro,I have no idea what I tell
myself 10 years from now, be like, I'll be like, I hope you
still, I hope you still got it. That's it.
It whatever it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I have no idea what I would tellmyself in 10 years.
Anything else? No, man.
Sweet. That's that.
Appreciate it, you said. Oh boy, this is going to be a

(34:27):
weird one to edit I'm. Just glad I won.
It's the only thing that matters.
Alright, so now that you've beenappropriately wild.
Yeah, that's yeah. Wow, Yeah.
So yeah, I'm definitely a wild. I I am somewhat of a minimalist
in the sense of I wouldn't say I'm a minimalist.
I would say that I don't really engage in things that don't
matter to me. So does the Yeah.

(34:49):
So the decor of a household, so to speak.
At some point, I plan on having a life partner.
They'll let her do all the, you know, decoration and then the
color schemes and whatever she wants to do for me.
I have my board games, I have myCologne fragrance collection
downstairs and I have my anime stuff that's there.
And that's basically it. And so.

(35:11):
Yeah, that's, I was not expecting the, well, the clone
collection kind of understandable, but then like
everything else, it's just like there's a lot more.
Yeah, it's it's like AI guess it's my room of expression if
you and I don't think I intendedit to be that way.
I think it's just more so like Ienjoy traveling.
So I have things from mementos or whatever, usually like

(35:34):
statuettes or something from every place that I've been to.
And then otherwise I know just stuff that I think it's fun.
I have my little travel map. My brother got that for me a
couple of years back. And then I have my, my, my goals
and my projeats up there for Thai boxing.
This, this nice Thai paint picture that was framed and then
a little bit of stuff in the Marine Corps as well.

(35:55):
So that's my my man gave. So you said that you're more
emotional than logical, or more logical than emotional?
In certain circumstances and up until a certain point.
And well, you said that you're illogical until you have extreme
emotional investment. And did not become illogical as
fuck, to be perfectly honest with you, which is it's
ridiculous not to. Like when I was younger, it was

(36:16):
worse, right? So there's a point that I would
not go beyond no matter what at this stage of my life.
But prior to, I only want to give you a number, just say
earlier in my life then then. Yeah.
That wasn't necessarily the case.
Yeah. So mastering emotion has been
has been a journey. Yeah.
So how would you define emotional investment?

(36:39):
Think emotional or or we say investments.
Do you mean just the way that you feel?
Define how you feel about somebody or define define how
you develop something with somebody emotionally?
What do you mean? It could be within
relationships. At what point do you say this is
an investment versus this is just something that I desire

(37:02):
because everyone desires the Ferraris, everyone desires the
the finer things in life. But then there's also you need
the investment beforehand to be able to obtain those things.
So I think it depends on intention.
If I'm being perfectly honest, Idon't think it's a matter of
time, at least in the context ofdating.
So for me, and at for the record, at this point in my
life, I'm not really into casually dating.

(37:22):
But let's say that we're casually dating and I just
wanted somebody to spend time with or to have companionship or
some type of physical intimacy, whatever the case may be.
Then at that point in time, me spending time with that
particular partner or potential partner would be, would not be
considered to be an investment, if that makes sense.
It's just companionship. It's whatever it is for the time

(37:44):
being and it's the understandingyou're going into with
understanding or the mindset that this isn't going to go
beyond a certain point. And then I would say that for
me, the intention of, OK, I'm open to the possibility or I've
seen certain characteristics that I desire and I'm more prone
to take this more seriously thannot.
Then at that point in time, thenthey can be the first time I'm

(38:06):
spending any time with that person.
But in my mind, it's still an investment because it's
something I continue. I plan to not necessarily plan
something I would like to continue on beyond a certain
point, if that makes sense. So it really is just an
intention based for me. Not with that being said, I have
gone into a circumstance before where I thought, yeah, I'm just

(38:28):
spending time. I'm not investing emotionally.
And the next thing you know, I'min love and it doesn't work out.
Just like I knew it wasn't goingto work out.
And I'm heartbroken and I'm upset at myself because I should
have known better, but I didn't know better or I did know
better. I didn't do better.
And that you have a heartbreak, so not always as easy as it
sounds. Why were you in that kind of
relationship? Was it just something you're

(38:50):
missing that? No, I was supposed to a very
serious relationship. I had broken up and I told
myself that. I told myself and my partner at
the time my, whatever you want call it, significant other
person who became significant, but I didn't intend on her
becoming significant, if you will, that I wasn't in a place
where I was emotionally available.

(39:11):
So we both agreed that that was going to be dynamic of our
relationship. And lo and behold.
How would you define emotional availability?
I think it is the openness coupled with the ability to

(39:35):
receive and give love, if that makes sense.
What kind of love typed out? Because there's like the
intimate. Love, whatever love is for the
dynamic of the relationship. So I, I think that no, I think
that they're they're definitely different types of
relationships. You're familiar with the five
love languages. No, you're not.

(39:56):
No. Oh, OK.
Educate. Maybe maybe I'm dating myself.
So back in my day when I was younger, it used to be all the
rage. We used to talk about the
different love languages. There was this book.
I can't recall who the author was, but he posited that human
beings have 5 basic ways in which they receive and.
Receiving light to not necessarily like to, but

(40:18):
naturally desire to be loved or for ways that they can express
love. And the five are in no
particular order, quality time, physical touch, acts of service,
gift giving, and words of affirmation.
So I think a lot of people who are aware of it, then they

(40:42):
describe that in the context of a romantic relationship.
But I think that that's actuallypretty applicable in
relationships period, not just romantic relationships.
So for instance, if you if you look at a family member or a
sibling like you may play. Do you have siblings?
I have a sister and a sister, Yeah.
Younger, older, older, five years.

(41:03):
Does she, are you guys physical one another?
Does she beat you up or does shebeat you up and all that other
stuff? Never really touched you.
It never. Really happened that way.
But just like my sister just adored me and I was just like.
Yeah, OK, great. Great.
So she made you feel good. Alright, so my, my, I'll use
myself, for example, like I havea bunch of younger cousins who
might as well be siblings. I have a brother and I have a
sister in our family. Then there are different

(41:26):
dynamics with different people, but one of the things that's
pretty prominent is like we're all always beating each other
up, pushing each other, ticklingone another, doing something
right. Like I have a cousin, maybe this
may have been, it was a while ago, like 15 years ago at this
point. But she I came from out of town.

(41:47):
She came home from school. I was sitting on the couch.
I said hey to her. She slapped me on the back of my
head. I was like, hey and walked
upstairs and I just just slappedme hard as shit too.
I'm like, I just sat there and Itook it.
I'm like, I eternalize and I'm gonna fuck her up for that
later. It's cool for right now, right?
So, but it so I state that to say that in that relationship,

(42:11):
because that's what it is, not aromantic one, obviously, but
physical touch is one of our languages.
If you don't want to call it a love language, so call it a
human language. And then you have some people
where it's just like quality time or words of affirmation or
whatever the case may be. If you think about our hobbies,
jiu jitsu, right? Like we're touching each other a
lot, right? Like chances are, I mean,

(42:33):
chances are people who don't like being touched or not, not
saying it doesn't happen, right.But generally speaking, people
who don't, who have a problem being touched are not going to
really get too deep into that sport.
Yeah, Dave was doing a a hand tohand combat.
It was part of like a bigger course, but it he allowed all
the some of the jiu jitsu guys to go and just take the class

(42:54):
for, for for free. And one of the other guys in jiu
jitsu mentioned that the people he was with and helping out
because obviously we know the way to hold ourselves in you.
I'm not best with knives than anything.
But you notice how everyone elsewasn't very comfortable being
touched, being like very in close proximity with other
people. So that's.

(43:15):
Definitely a yeah, we're just there like you literally had
your, your, your chin on my necktrying to separate me from
consciousness. And I'm just like smiling and
making jokes. And yeah, so yeah, it's a
different level of comfort, right.
And I'm not saying that like in the absolute statement.
I'm pretty sure there's a lot ofpeople who don't like physical
contact that much and intimate relationships or relationships
generally, generally, but they apply, they're able to

(43:36):
disassociate that with jiu jitsu.
So I think generally speaking, we would you have friends and
family that you spend time with,you talk.
That's how you maintain a relationship.
You may be physical, you may just spend time together,
whatever the case may be. But I think that those extend
beyond just love languages. So I can't necessarily remember

(43:56):
your original question, but I will say that I believe, or at
least I believe when I started talking about it, that it does
harken back to the fact that there are different ways that
people express themselves and like to receive.
So you said quality time, words of affirmation, physical touch
was the other two? Acts of service and service gift
giving. That's interesting because

(44:17):
those, I, I heard somewhere thatpeople that there's two types of
people. There's those who like thing who
like getting things and others who like experiences.
So some so like the ones who like gifting, getting gifts like
they will, they'll react more positively than like getting a
shared experience or something like that.

(44:38):
So. Yeah, and and then an experience
can be considered a gift, right?So one of the things that you
mentioned was the commitment that you kind of hold yourself
to, but how? And this was interesting.
You have a different type of commitment to yourself, and you
have a different type of commitment with other people.
Not commitment, a different typeof standard for myself and other

(45:01):
people, right? So the easiest way to put it
would be physical standards. Like I work out a lot and my
standard for myself is I must maintain a certain level of
fitness and a certain shape and a certain ability to do things
my entire life. As a matter of fact, I was just

(45:22):
talking to one of my, my close family members and I reminded
her that if I'm ever in any typeof an incident where I'm unable
to, I'm sorry, unable to physically do for myself, then
do not resuscitate me. Let me go.
Like if you, if you bring me back, I'm gonna find out who's
responsible. I'm going to Morse code blank

(45:43):
the shit out of you. Like it's just like don't like
I, I, it's part of my identity. Like I'm just, I'm an active
person who can't be sedentary and beyond not being able to be
sedentary, then it's just, it's me, I.
Why is that? That's a good question.

(46:04):
I think if I were to think, I would imagine it probably has
something to do with my childhood.
I was not tall and my skin complexion, as much as you're
disparaging about yours, just bullshit you need to stop.
But it was it was similar for mewhen I was growing up.
So as I grew up in the Atlanta area, and more specifically when

(46:28):
I was in New Orleans, then beingdark skinned was not it like we
were. Were you in a predominantly
white? Community No, no, no, no, no,
no. It was, some of it was a little
bit mixed, mostly, mostly black and Latino.
But no, it just wasn't it like it was always about the light
skinned guys. So I was like genuine Cisco,

(46:50):
whoever else this was before Chris Brown came out.
And I'm not mad at any of these guys for the for the record,
right. But we just weren't in.
So I think between that and me being 5 or going to the maximum
height of 5-7, then yeah, you just get to the point where it's
like, all right, well, I'm not what's in, so to speak.
And because I knew I wasn't naturally going to be what was

(47:12):
in, then I was fortunate enough to start lifting and to become
more athletic. And then I kind of built myself
into a person that was more attractive, if you will.
And then so I think attraction was probably foremost in my
desires, but also I would coupleit with formidable
formidability, right? And so over the course of my

(47:36):
adult life, if you will, then I become extremely formidable for
most people. Not Dave, but for most people
and then and then like the attraction, I mean, it's very
subjective, right, But not doingtoo poorly in most cases.
So it's just become of become a part of who I am and what my

(47:57):
identity is for myself, right? It's not even about anybody else
at this point. And it just is like I don't give
myself a choice anymore. So being in shape is not an
option is it's what I do. So I get up, I work out and I.
What got you started and going to gym because I know you said
you started going when you were like 13.

(48:18):
What got you started? What was that like?
That pushing point? I think it was because I wanted
to play football in my freshman year.
I did. So I believe it was me just
thinking, all right, I'm going to play ball this coming up in a
summer, fall, whatever it was, and let me start lifting.
Yeah, why did you want to do football?
I played when I was in fifth grade.

(48:39):
I played one year. My one of my uncles actually
introduced me to it. Was this the Marine uncle?
No, no, this was a different uncle.
Yeah. And I actually, I enjoyed it a
lot. I wasn't good at it, but I
enjoyed it. Did football give you like a
sense of community outside of the outside of what you were?
Doing I think football stopped me from joining the gang, if I'm
being honest. OK, Yeah.
How many games were there and. The big ones in my area would

(49:02):
have been, I forget what type ofblood it was.
It was some type of blood. It was a Gangster Disciples and
then and then they had the folkswho I don't know if they had
many Crips and they had some Latin gang that I never really
paid attention to. And I think they had some Asian
thing too. Like I and I never really paid
too much attention to the to whatever they were.

(49:23):
But yeah, so they were. They were.
Like gang boundaries and and there's a lot of like.
Not like boundaries per SE. It was more so like if you get
caught, you know, And I'm prettysure there were certain places
where people didn't go. But I didn't have a car, right?
So I was walking everywhere or riding my bike.
So I didn't stray too far away from my my neighborhood, so to
speak. But I don't think so.

(49:47):
What kind of what kind of household did you grow up in?
It varied. So I grew up in a two parent
household from 1:00 to called it7 or 8 so to speak.
However, my dad was out doing what he did at that point in
time. So he was there, but he was
there. He was a father and then they

(50:12):
split when I was, I want to say I was 8.
And then shortly there afterwards, maybe a year or so
later, my grades suffered dramatically and I ended up
going to Atlanta to live with myimplements uncle that I've
spoken about in my aunt and I lived with them for two years
and my mom ended up coming coming up to Atlanta.

(50:34):
Then we moved to an apartment. No, we moved to live with
another uncle and aunt for a year.
That didn't work out so well. Then my mother got an apartment
with my brother, my sister and I, and we lived there for a year
or two by ourselves and my mother and father remarried one
another and we still lived in that house or that apartment.
Then we got it into a small house that we rented in the

(50:56):
area, and I graduated from thereand went to the Marine Corps.
That was 2002. Yes.
How was the How much of a difference was it between your
parents and your uncle and aunt?You mean as far as the dynamic
of their relationship? Dynamic of relationship as well
as the way that they thought thethe difference in thinking of

(51:17):
how they treated the world and how they treated you.
It's not easy to make that comparison.
They're completely different people with completely different
worldviews, if that makes sense.My uncle was in the Marine
Corps. My both my dad and my uncle grew
up in, we'll say it's, we'll call them locations that weren't

(51:39):
the the best. My, so my dad grew born and
raised in New Orleans and my uncle born and raised in
Atlanta, right. So, but we're talking about
inner city for both of them. So neither one of them grew up
in a safe, like, safe household that was conducive to the
success of black men specifically, right.
But one of them did join Marines, right.

(51:59):
Which is a stark contrast from, we'll say, the decisions that my
dad made. He was coming up, right.
And yeah, so I think that shapeda lot because my uncle had a
level of exposure that my my daddidn't.
As far as my mother and my aunt and my soul, my aunt is my
mother's baby sister. She's the youngest of five, and

(52:23):
I think she was, I'll say she probably had not necessarily
different priorities, but just adifferent way of going about
achieving what she desired, if that makes sense.
Like when my mother was more, how do I say this without
sounding disparaging? When my mother was more, we'll

(52:45):
call it assertive and just forthcoming and demanding my it
was not in. A positive way?
From my perspective, I wouldn't necessarily think that it was
super positive, but I would say that where my mother would have
more of that way of expressing herself, desires, needs, wants,

(53:07):
expectations, they may ought. I would say it was more
diplomatic and dare I say charismatic, and you could also
say more strategic and getting which he desired.
So it's kind of one of those. It's interesting, but that's how
I would describe it in retrospect.
Is there any, is there any like lessons that you learned from

(53:29):
either your mother or your aunt that kind of stuck with you
throughout the? Be cliche and say you catch more
bees with honey than sugar. But also, I think in speaking
from my, my own personal experience in my relationship
with my aunt, then learning to respect the agency of those
around you is extremely valuableas opposed to feeling and maybe

(53:55):
even being the person that knowsbest, right?
Like you could feel like you know best and still need to how
you should still possess the ability to take a step back and
allow them to go through life asthey as they will.
Right? And that's one of the difficult
things about being, is it your turn or mine?
It's my turn. OK, Sir.
That's one of the difficult things about being older, having

(54:17):
experienced things like when youwatch younger generations and
they will make really stupid decisions sometimes and it's
really difficult to sit back and, and to bite your tongue and
not give unsolicited advice. And if you do give advice, even
if they ask you for it not to beoverbearing and to tethered to
the result of, hey, are they going to, are they going to

(54:38):
follow your advice or not right.And that's, that's so difficult.
But yeah. So I'll tell you a quick story
about that not using. I'll use myself and my younger
brother because I did this to myuncle as well.
Yeah, but so my brother's 3 1/2 years younger, and I recruited
him into the Marine Corps basically.
So my mom was pissed about so fucking mad.

(55:00):
But I had been in long enough tosee a whole bunch of people get
in trouble. And I knew my brother was
fucking crazy. So I was just like, all right,
well, you can. I know that you're going to
drink, although you're not old enough to.
I know that you're going to fight people.
I know that you're going to do all the crazy shit that you're
going to do because that's what he was.

(55:22):
It's like, so put these parameters in place in order to
make sure that you don't destroyyour career while you do all
these things that you're not supposed to do, but you're going
to do anyway, right? So I take a list of maybe 10
things. Fucking listen to none of them,
right? I'm just like, bro, what the
fuck are you doing? Like, so we sit here talking to
station in California. I think I was in North Carolina

(55:42):
at the time. And we were just, we talk and I
find myself getting disappointedbased off of the risk that he
that he took. And I'm gonna tell you
everything he did because I don't want my brother's
reputation to be smeared. My bro, you're fucking crazy.
And I remember we went down to New Orleans to visit our dad one

(56:02):
day and we were at a card table.I have my I have two cousins on
my dad's side and they are one of them's around 10 months
younger than me. And the other is somewhere to
the extent of, and I know maybe a year old and my brother.
So we're all pretty close in age, if that makes sense.

(56:25):
And the younger one, then he ended up not, we were all
drinking. So he ended up having, we'll
say, a less than ideal circumstance on the table.
He basically vomited all over the table.
And we're laughing at him. My dad's there, his mom's there,
one of my other uncles is there,another aunt is there.
And we're just laughing and, andI was making so much fun of him.

(56:49):
And then my brother, who drank quite a bit at that point in
time, was trying to console him,encourage him and doing all this
stuff. So I called him fucking Doctor
Phil to to the extent of he'll beat my ass and I don't pay him
any attention because we're justdrinking whatever.
But after around the 5th or 6th time he said I'm like, oh, he
means this shit right? So, so we almost we get closer

(57:11):
and closer and he's more, he's more upset than I am.
Like I'm just thinking he's talking shit.
I'm a grown ass man. He's trying to beat my ass.
There's only going to be so manyass whippers that get threatened
here and then afterwards then, he said.
Something in the. Middle of the altercation where
he's like, yeah, he's trying to do this like father figure shit.
And at that point it clicked. I was like, oh like he no, no,

(57:35):
not not that he cares. He is fatigued with the fact
that he thinks that I am being overbearing towards him because
I'm always telling him what he should and shouldn't be doing.
So he is now turned that into something that he resents me for
and now we're drinking so my brother wants to beat my ass.

(57:56):
Was that in a way that the you the perception?
Of you being overbearing was like a power struggle.
I don't know for the power struggle, I think it's just.
I think it's just repressed anger.
Repressed anger probably. And we fought a lot going up
like physically he would hit me.I went him back out pushing my
toes somewhere. I never really was big on
hitting. People were smiling me.
But we still got into a lot of conflicts and and I.

(58:23):
You know, it was. It was.
Rough so, but I. Say, I would say we're maybe
we're all good. Now is fine, we didn't fight
thankfully but it helped me. Realize that.
I I could not continue on basically directing him on what

(58:47):
he should have, shouldn't be doing.
It's just like, OK, at this point I have to realize he's a,
he's an adult. He has agency.
Whatever he does, what his life is, what he decides to do with
his life. And it doesn't alleviate the
worry, but it did get me to the point where I understood that.
I understood that. Or I developed a.
Perspective that's a better way of saying it, is that every

(59:10):
person that we have a relationship with in this world,
we're going to lose at some point, right?
Unless that's life so we can me.I'm sorry.
Give me a second. Let me think for a second.
This has nothing to do with the podcast.
I'm thinking about is it worth the risk to so worth the risk to
fucking be crazy? I imagine you would probably say

(59:32):
no, but it's just the hard part.I can't lose on camera in front
of all these people. You do that should be pretty
fucked up of you. So there's there's a general
sense of pain of seeing other people.
That you love get hurt by their own estate?
No, no, no. That's not where I was going
with that at all. Sorry.
Fuck, I'm it's too, too, too, too listen and yeah, fucking I

(59:57):
don't care. No, that don't work, but I fuck
it. So I say that to say you looking
like that for his dad? Not exactly right.
What the fuck is he doing? Yeah, What's going on?

(01:00:21):
I'm so confused. I don't know what the fuck to
say, bro. All right, So anyway, going into
saying we're going to lose everybody that we love and if
we're going to lose everybody that we love, then I think that
we can take one of two approaches.
We can say I'm going to try and do everything I can to hold on
to this person, even if it's at the quote UN quote expense of

(01:00:45):
our relationship, right, becauseI have to make sure that they do
the right thing. I have to make sure he doesn't
jeopardize this. I have to make sure whatever and
tough love and I owe it to them to be open and honest and and
all these other things right. Excuse me or the approach that
I've come to take with with people that I care about is that

(01:01:08):
go on that God and it's it really is letting go.
It's hey, listen, like this is my thought process on it
specifically when asked, right? And if someone asks you for
advice, that's different. But if there's someone who I
care about and I believe that they're being reckless and it's
not that I won't say anything, but I understand they're doing
it for a reason and it's their life to live.

(01:01:29):
They have the decisions to make.And if I try to offer some
measure of advice or whatever you want to call it and it's not
received well and I will typically back off due to the
fact that I understand that if Icontinue to push somebody, then
like I may jeopardize the relationship with them and lose

(01:01:49):
them. And yeah, and I would rather is
it maybe it's wrong, right. But to a certain extent I would
rather have a a really good 10 year relationship.
With somebody. Then a really terrible 40
relationship with somebody that I love, if that makes sense.
Is that one of the problems withbeing someone who cares about

(01:02:11):
other? People is that you don't want
someone to go through the same pains that you went through
Yeah, I think that's life generally speaking for.
For most people, you don't want people to go to the the bullshit
that you had to go to. Yeah, but it happens.
And unfortunately there's not much you can do about it in a
lot of cases. So yeah.

(01:02:36):
Do you treat yourself the same way?
No, no, you get. Good.
Do you? Do you treat yourself the same
way? You treat other.
People, how do you mean the amount of caring and time they
want to put into helping other people?
Do you put that same amount of care and time into yourself?
I mean, outside of working out and and such, I don't know how
much time what what gives you the person.

(01:02:57):
I get put a whole bunch of time and care into people.
Curiously, you seem like the kind of person who who cares
enough that. When someone's in a certain
situation that you'll put that you'll.
Put a certain amount of information to them.
But also hold back when it's notnecessary.
And I don't know. I was curious as to if that was

(01:03:17):
also the same way you treat yourself.
Interesting question. Generally speaking, I treat
myself. I'm probably harder on myself
than them, but most people I'm more honest with myself than I
am with anybody for obvious reasons.
And no, probably not. No, I, when I am in a situation

(01:03:40):
where I understand something needs to be fixed, then I will
typically do my due diligence tofix it.
But also we're talking about something like I, I'm with
myself literally 24/7. You know, 365 * 40 1/2 at this
point. So it's it's not as obvious
sometimes where I can just look at somebody and listen to them

(01:04:02):
talk and be like, hey, this is it.
This is a solution that you may want to try.
This will work for you. And then also there's a way of,
There's a way of. Offering.
Solutions to people where it's not that you simplify it, but
it's that you state it and you you understand what comes with

(01:04:24):
it as a, as a yeoman's effort, if you will, requires one, but
you're it's actually going to tie that off.
How do you know? When to be honest with yourself
I'm always honest with myself you you never find a.
A friction point where? Being honest with yourself hurts
more than give a fuck. If it hurts it's it's myself.

(01:04:45):
Like why? Like I, I don't get the point of
lying to me, you know, Is this like so now?
I'm I'm. I don't suffer from being
dishonest with myself. What kind of person do you want
to be? Type of.
Person do I want to be? Yeah.
Say one that brings. Value to most situations.

(01:05:06):
Or to any situation I'm in OK that I place myself in, if that
makes sense. When a scene is generally more
positive, and generally. More.
Helpful than not in a lot of circumstances.
Was there any time when you weren't able to?
Provide value, but you wanted towhen I was not able to provide

(01:05:26):
value. Yeah, kind of like a conflict.
Of. The conflict of I want to be
able to help because I know so much, but also the humility that
I don't know enough, so I don't want to do more damage than
good. I want to consider a conflict.
In most cases I don't have a. Problem telling people I'm not
the best one qualified to help you in Syria.
And I've never, I've never had aconflict with that.

(01:05:48):
I think there are places where Ihave had conflicts where one
could. Say.
That's I have information and I know the person is not going to
be receptive to it. So therefore I know all these
things, but I can't bring value because it's not going to be

(01:06:08):
received. That's probably that's been more
the case then I want to bring value, but I don't think that
whatever. Whatever is you just said so
articulately. How do you know when someone's
not receptive? I mean, there's plenty.
Of ways body language. Body language.
Tone of voice, eye contacts, things like that.
I don't think I can't. I don't pay nearly as much

(01:06:29):
attention. To eye contact, as a lot of
people do. I know some people just to like
eye contact. Like he's not making eye contact
with me. He's disingenuous.
He's this is that. I don't think it's it's nearly
that serious in a lot of cases. I think it's just some people
are uncomfortable with it. And yeah, do you find?
I I know there's a there. Was something that I heard that

(01:06:51):
people that like when men have eye contact it's intimate like
not having a prolonged amount ofit can be intimate so.
Am I? I typically make it a point to
make eye contact with most people when I'm speaking to
them. As a matter fact, I would be
making eye contact with you right now except for I'm trying
to study his board and not have you get away with nefarious
bullshit. Which you probably will if I'm

(01:07:11):
being perfectly honest. Like the horns of Dilemma are
here. You got that punk ass night
there that's just laying in waitand I don't appreciate it.
I don't think I deserve it either.
You would say you're someone whounderstands yourself very well,
right? I believe so.
Was there any time when you. Had.
A false identity. False identity.
Was there any point in your lifewhere you weren't secure with

(01:07:33):
who you are? Of course.
How did you get out of that time?
Maturity just understood. That's I.
Mean I may I'm this is. This is what's valuable.
This is what's not. This is what I can change.
This is what I can't. And yeah, I'm still sure I'm.

(01:07:56):
Pretty sure there's still certain times when I come up and
I'm like I'm. Not 100% confident or
comfortable with certain aspectsof myself, but it kind of is
with us. Yeah, it's one of my problems.
I always try to try. To figure out who I want to be.
But at the same time, once I getthere, I don't, I I'm not
comfortable with the one I wanted to be.
Yeah, but you're also young. I hear that a lot.

(01:08:18):
That people say, oh, you're. Young, you're still fucking.
Young, I know, but it's like what?
Why can't I understand it now? It's like what?
What's stopping Because for you then, life has been a very long.
Long road, you've been alive for21 years, right?
So for you 21 years seems like fuck, this is an eternity for
me. Like shit, 21 years.

(01:08:38):
It was a long fucking time ago. So it's a matter of perspective
to a certain extent. But yeah, it doesn't make it any
less valid. There's a reason why people are
saying things like you're young.It's because you're young.
When I was, when you're 21, you have so much ahead of you.
Like to, for instance, like withMuay Thai, I didn't start Muay

(01:09:01):
Thai until I was 24, so three years removed.
From where you are right now, I started to think.
That I'm arguably better at thanthan almost anything else I do.
What are you? Into Muay Thai I.
Was born in undergrad. I was born.
In undergrad I was in the Marine.
Corps, a friend of. Mine was a Marine Corps martial

(01:09:22):
arts instructor for the fuck that is for whatever fuck good
that is rather. And he he was teaching and we
started watching UFC fights. And I've never been somebody
who's really big on just merely spectating about things.
So I decided that I would I would try it.

(01:09:44):
And I did look at my ass. Beat badly.
Yeah. What kept you going back?
I've never been deterred by getting my ass whooped.
No, and also I to the point. Of being self.
Aware or aware like I grew. I got in a lot of fights when I
was younger and got to the pointwhere I started winning the

(01:10:07):
majority. Of them if you were winning.
Street fights, whatever, the kids might be right?
But at the time when I started, I was in the powerlifting.
I had been in the Marine Corps for the better part of 5 1/2
years, maybe closer to 6 or so. Like, you can tell me that.
You can tell me I couldn't whoopmost people's asses, right?
And then this 140 LB. I think it's a brown belt in jiu

(01:10:28):
jitsu, black belt in Judea. Judi.
Judi. Judi.
Yeah, his name was Marius. And I rolled with this dude.
I think it was a 6 minute round.I think he pretzeled me up
probably 7 times in 6 minutes. And I was like, oh shit, I know
how to fight. And then while I was getting
choked out, then I look at the rain and I see people punching

(01:10:49):
and kicking one another. I was like, well, I don't know
how to do that either. And so I was like, all right,
well let me learn both. So I did.
Would you call yourself a fighter?
So I am. A pacifist who is capable of
doing great bodily. Harm to anyone, that or not
anyone but most people that cross a certain boundary.

(01:11:09):
And yeah, put it. Like that, right?
But I don't like hurting people.I do love fighting.
So do you like do you like fighting for the the art of it?
I love the expression I. Love the art I love my body's
capable of. I it's adult recess to me at
that point, right? Like, you see me in the gym, I'm
fucking maniacal and, like, screaming at the top of my
lungs. And it's fun.

(01:11:30):
It's just fun. But also, it's a game.
It's like this is what I have become capable of after all
these years, right? Like, I remember when I was, I
believe I was 11 or 12, and there was, I forget which Tekken
it was. It was a Tekken.
I think it was Tekken 3 or 4. Do you recall that game?

(01:11:53):
Sounds familiar. Yeah.
So Tekken, they had this character name, I think it was
Jen Kazama. He was the main character of the
game. So it was taking three pretty
sure. But he had his shirt off on the
cover of video game magazine like buff ABS.
But I looked at my uncle and I showed him picture of that or I
showed him picture of that. I was like, I want to look like
that when I grow up. And he looked at me and he tell

(01:12:13):
me I couldn't. He said that's going to take a
lot of hard work, right? So, so Fast forward like and I'm
not as ripped right now as I was, but there was a fucking
time where I look like that, right?
And then you talk about like things like I used to do it.
I brought it back last month, but the last Thursday or the

(01:12:34):
last actual class of each month and I would do like video game
technique. So some dumb shit that you
probably don't see in a video game.
I try and teach and I, I think Igot away from doing it because
most people aren't athletic enough to do those stupid type
of things. But it's fun.
But like there's a lot of, I can't do everything obviously,
but there's a lot of things I'm capable of doing that I never
would have imagined or I only would have imagined I would have

(01:12:56):
been capable of doing, if that makes sense back in the day.
So that's pretty cool. So everything's really ties
around your. Pursuit of becoming capable.
Not a 11 sentence fits everything ish ish.
I enjoy being capable. I enjoy.
Being like there's a certain freedom of.

(01:13:18):
Like I'm not worried about much.I'm I'm.
Really not worried about much. Like I walk around, I see people
who are bigger than me, I see people like and don't don't get
me wrong, I'm not disillusioned and I don't think that I can
beat up multiple bodybuilders oranything like that.
I'm not going to, nor do I go start shit with people to like
go. You don't have an ego.
Yeah, I don't. I don't, and it really does.
Make you it. Makes you really, really chill.

(01:13:40):
Like I leave the gym, I don't want to fight anybody.
I'm fucking fool. Like dude, I'm tired.
Like I just like Bob just chokedthe shit out of me.
Dave fucking did whatever he decided to do to me, Honey ankle
locked me like Parker did some type of hate crime shit to me.
It's just like, man, fuck, I'm tired, bro.
You got James who fucking Rune bared me.
I couldn't get up and then I have to do it.

(01:14:01):
Then I go do Thai boxing, which is probably why I beat the Thai
students up so much. Honestly, it's just repressed
anger. Keep keep that for them.
We like. We don't need that.
It's just like, yeah, but anyway, so.
It's like I just, I just got choked out.
And how would you define repressed anger?
Because you mentioned it before.And I I was bullshitting.
I don't. I have much repressed anger.
I know how. Would you approach something?

(01:14:24):
Where you internalize and you decide that you want to bring.
It out or you decide you decide to or it comes out later, if
that makes sense, as opposed to right there in that moment.
OK, so I've never had repressed anger.
I've always just. Taken whatever it is and taking
it for what it was or what it is, it's like I'm not capable
enough. Cool.

(01:14:44):
And I know and I know there's probably a lot of.
People my age are just they. Were they're angry they want to
prove themselves. It's like, who are you proving
yourself to? I just don't understand that.
It's like. Was there a point when you were
trying to prove yourself to to someone or of?
Course, yeah, was your age. In a little bit before but yeah

(01:15:07):
of course this is very cliche atthis point but there is this an
expression that says something to the extent of women are born
with their value and men have todevelop it yeah I there is
something that just saw this on social media there's.
The marriage. The reason why marriage happens
is because a man's value increases over time and a

(01:15:27):
woman's value decreases. I'm not willing to pair that
phrase specifically. Not oh.
No, no, I'm meaning like. Kind of going what you'd say,
it's like I didn't say woman's value.
No, no, I, I, I I not the directly at the camera I did
not. State I'm not a woman's value
decreases over the course of time.
I was just like relating it to disagree.

(01:15:47):
Fucking don't come for me. Anyway, no, I I give it to you
to hell. I was just trying to say I
understand. Yeah.
So yeah, yeah. So anyway, fucking before we get
like. I'm still trying to try.
To get, I'm trying to, I'm trying to be with somebody at
some point, yeah. And fucking this is suboptimal
anyway, but let me actually pay.No, no.

(01:16:11):
So yes, as a, as a man, then youget to the point where like you
do feel like you need to, you feel like you need to.
Prove your worth show. Your worth etcetera.
And it's difficult to do, it takes time, right, proves your
value, whatever. And I do believe that I believe
to a certain extent is is. There you.

(01:16:34):
You know the and, and dating doesn't help, right?
Because even as early and as high school, like, you meet
girls who are freshmen and sophomores and the majority of
the people that they date are the juniors and seniors or
somebody who's in college already.
And it's just like I and youngerwoman will talk about how, yeah,

(01:16:55):
older men have more to offer forwhatever reason.
And that remains a constant. I'm not gonna say indefinitely,
but it it it can't be a constant.
And it can be very difficult foryoung men.
So you do find yourself in a situation where you feel as
though you have to, like, prove and show your values, so to
speak, or develop your value. Yeah.

(01:17:16):
Would you agree with the phrase confidence?
Is built through experience or through evidence.
I say confidence is. Built the phrase confidence is.
Built through hard work and refinement so in other words, it
would take keep on harkening back to martial arts, right?

(01:17:37):
That's fine like I am confident in my striking ability.
The reason why I'm confident in my striking abilities because
I've been striking for years andI keep striking with people.
And over the course of time, then I've seen my level of
efficiency with it go from call it here to here or to wherever
the fuck I am. And that's what builds that

(01:17:59):
confidence. So I can walk into the gym and I
can feel very, very confident that I can adequately defend
myself. And if I need to, I can turn it
up to a level that's most peoplewon't be able to match.
But that's based off of the factthat I've done years and years
and years of it, right? And, and I, I think that's a, a

(01:18:20):
perfect analogy for how confidence is built in
something. You continue doing it, you make
your mistakes, you get better, you get to see the results of
your, of your work. And then before you know, you
get to the point where you have,you have competence to match
your confidence, right, right. And I think that's an important,
important distinction, right? Like, you want to be confident
about something, yes, but you also want to have competence

(01:18:44):
coupled with your confidence. And if you don't have both, then
I mean, confidence can be empty.Looking back, the last four and
a half, 40 1/2. Years.
Were you trying to prove yourself to other people or
prove yourself to yourself? Probably more other people
initially at this point. Like I try to prove myself to

(01:19:04):
myself like so the whole workingout as hard as I do and going as
as consistently. As I do, then it's.
It's not, it's not even proving something to myself, it's just I
understand what I believe I'm capable of, and because I'm
capable, therefore I shall do. What about false confidence

(01:19:26):
might exist? You talk about with me.
Or with people because you have you look like you you.
Don't have any problem with confidence or not too much of a
problem. That's like self-inflicted pain
that you're confident but you'renot confident in the right
things. How would you perceive people
who have a false sense of confidence?

(01:19:46):
Fucking idiots. No, no, fucking it is.
So you, are you familiar with the Donny and Kruger effect?
Yeah, Yeah, it's sure. Do you want to just explain it
just so? Well, makes me sound smart.
Makes me sound smart. Moderately intelligent at best.
Now the Donny and Kruger effect,from what I understand it to be,
is basically people who have a natural proclivity believe that

(01:20:08):
they will be more more effective.
Or have more efficacy? In a certain skill, usually
physical, then they actually would and that.
Is based off of their. Lack of, lack of.
Fuck, did you do that? Lack of experience in it?

(01:20:33):
That's interesting. It's not what I thought you went
to. That's actually much better than
when I thought you went. To better for you or better
better? For me.
I was fucking worried, man. I was like, shit.
What are your thoughts on pursuing instant gratification?
Versus delayed gratification, when delayed gratification is
going to get you something that's.
Better than instant gratification that you that you

(01:20:54):
are going for at that point, at that point in time and then also
when instant gratification is going to harm you more so than
help you in the long run, right So and, and then.
Also, when do you decide it's worth the?
Trade off honestly so that I that would be my my coin answer

(01:21:16):
on that yeah. Do you have any stories about
you Did not? Yes, No.
No. Not every stuff like stupid
example OK instant gratificationversus.
Delayed gratification. I want a.
Nice six pack right? And instant gratification.
I want a chocolate chip cookie because I feel like I have had a

(01:21:41):
very long day and I fucking hatemy job.
This is all hypothetical of course it's it really is
hypothetical for me it's more soin the past.
Like I don't hate my job right now but either way.
Like I want a six pack and I understand a chocolate chip
cookie is not conducive to me getting a six pack.
However, I just had a long fucking day.
I hate my job and I'm ready to off myself and anyone who I am

(01:22:06):
associated with. There we go.
Instant gratification is, I wantthis fucking cookie, right?
Delayed gratification is I don'tneed this cookie because it's
not conducive to my goal, right?And then there's a trade off.
How much is this cookie going tonegatively impact me as far as

(01:22:27):
my goal is concerned, right? How much is it going to set me
back? And at this moment in time, do I
really give a fuck, right? Is it worth it for me to forgo
the, the long haul of my delayedgratification of my 6 pack and
the delay of it for this cookie that I want right now?
And, and I think oftentimes whatpeople may use to try to

(01:22:57):
convince themselves is like, it's one cookie, right?
Like it's one fucking cookie. It's going to take me the better
part of six weeks to six months to get myself to look the way
that I want. What's 1 cookie going to do?
Right. But it's usually not just one
cookie. It's usually one cookie today
and then one cookie tomorrow, and then one cookie.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Right.
And then next thing you know, it's just like, well, fuck.
Like all these little slips end up being pretty big slips.

(01:23:20):
And that's what ends up, you know, fucking people over.
So you do things with the purpose in mind.
That this has to have a long a purpose, both short term and
long term. No, I'm not nearly as I'm.
Not nearly as how would you say?I'm not nearly as structured as

(01:23:40):
you think I am with. Everything Oh, with a lot of
things in life, I think like andyou're probably I know you like
we both know Dave, right? So he's very structured,
extremely fucking structured, right, like fucking.
So you're more you have more of a flexible mindset.
Yeah, yeah. But but with a structure to keep
it. Yeah, there's a structure
associated, I mean. Yeah, I'm still structured, but

(01:24:04):
there's levels. There's levels.
So there's certain things where people, I get axed often in
dating. Like, you seem like you're
really intense or really insistent upon a lot of things.
And my answer. Is usually something to the.
Extent of I mix. I'm very insistent upon the

(01:24:26):
things that I care about, Right.But I don't care about that
much, if that makes sense. There's a few things that you
care about. Yeah, there's a few things I
care about. There's other things I just
don't give a fuck, right? Like, so in other words, I get
let me let me get married tomorrow.
And she's like, I want to paint the house.
I want to paint all the walls inhere bright pink.
Fuck it. Go ahead.
Right. Or is it?

(01:24:47):
Like pink, Pink would be a really good color.
Yeah, I like pink. Actually.
I wear pink. Consider.
Wore pink shirt, not like a. Neon pink has to be like a more
so I don't give a fuck What color sheet.
OK, it's fine. I I don't, I don't care, right?
Or if she's like, hey, I want toeat this, I want to cook this
every day. I don't give a fuck, right?
If I don't like, I'll just get something else, right.
Or if like it's just a lot of stuff I don't care about.
Like I'm, I'm going out to eat with somebody and my intent is I

(01:25:12):
want to enjoy the company. I don't give a fuck what we eat,
right? Like it doesn't matter to me,
right? So those things don't matter.
The things that do matter to me,like, yeah, that's what I like
to put information. I'm sorry.
That's what I like to put effortinto.
So what? What are the things that you do
care about? I care about my health.

(01:25:34):
Specifically aesthetically, but also overall health.
Like I'm not just working out for the sake of wanting to look
good at that. I do believe that the the more
muscle mass I have over the longhaul, the healthier I'll be and
it'll help to stave off health issues.
I believe it has already stave off health issues.
As much sugar as a fucking intake.

(01:25:54):
Then I think that I think that that's probably the only.
Reason why I don't have diabetesalready.
And then aside from that, then yeah, I mean.
I said oh shit. Oh shit, oh shit, oh shit, why
would you do that? Why?

(01:26:16):
But OK, I said Parakeet. It's not a bad.
Move there's. I didn't.
Say it was a bad move. OK, I don't recall ever saying.
I just just trying to get me to doubt myself.
How would I? Would I ever?
Try to get you a doctor stuff. Yeah, I was trying.
To figure out where to put everything there I realized my
Rook. Wasn't protected by anything.
So I was like, OK, I was, wait. I mean, I was.

(01:26:37):
I was perfectly fine with what? Would have happened had you not
done that. I would have been actually.
That would have, absolutely. Been fucking.
Awesome really. But I saw it last second.
I was like, I can't do that since you.
Don't know how to play nice withothers can do that I am.
Playing reasonably I you were. The last chess match I've ever
had, and then before that it waslike a couple months before

(01:26:59):
anything with that. What's that?
Your fucking business play game.I don't like you like like he's
defending. Himself, I don't like him.
All right, so we were talking. About.
I don't even remember. You know, OK, is there
something? You wanted to, you wanted to say
I like how like. One similarity for both of us is

(01:27:20):
like once chess. Is involved.
Everything else goes out there. Yeah, I believe this
conversation would have flowed alot like I'd have been.
Much more. I was sitting here, I saw, I saw
a chess board. I was like, I'm putting that as
a shot. I don't.
Care what happened. This looks beautiful.
I was just like, fuck, it's so much pressure like.
I can't do that because he's going to do that.
I can't do that because he's going to do that.
Like this bitch, he's going to. What's the one thing that you

(01:27:41):
want to get most out of life? Contentment.
Contentment OK, consistent. And stable contentment.
Is it just just having peacefulness, peace, love,
quality of life, I should say fulfillment and all that other
stuff. And the contentment kind of

(01:28:02):
requires fulfillment. Can't be content without being
fulfilled in some some aspect ofyour life.
That's why I put in it. Yeah, class is half full or half
empty. It's it's fully it's.
Full just has air in it now. I'm content it is a solved.
Problem. There's no argument.
It's either this is the answer, that's the answer.
What about the other option at both of them are the answer.
I mean, I get people like to take sides and everything.

(01:28:24):
No, don't. Don't get me started on binary
situations. Sir, now what's your viewpoint
about your situations? Most situations you are likely
to. Miss a lot that is valuable.
On the other side, if you just choose a side right.
So take I'll use an example. We know a guy who's.

(01:28:45):
A really high level black. Belt and he just does not like
certain people right, just doesn't like certain people and.
If you were to say, OK, he doesn't.
Like certain people. So I'm just not going to pay any
attention to anything that this other person does jiu jitsu
wise, OK? Cool, right?

(01:29:08):
But there could be some very good jiu.
Jitsu out there that you miss because you just won't affiliate
yours. Excuse me?
Affiliate yourself with them because so and so doesn't like
them. And.
I think it's it's similar in a sense, like just because there
can be a lot that's suboptimal about somebody doesn't mean that
you throw the baby out with the bathwater.

(01:29:29):
In that regard, it's knowing when to separate the.
The person from the, the personality from the the craft.
And also. And that wasn't even my point
necessarily. With that, as far as personality
and craft, but although yes to that, but I think that I think

(01:29:52):
you can say there's two sides tothat story, but.
We all got to a certain. Point based off of certain
experiences that that occurred force all right.
So it's just knowing that peopleare not perfect.
Yeah, people aren't perfect. And also I think I.
Originally brought this up because it's not say I hate the

(01:30:13):
bipartisan political system, right?
And I think because, number one,I don't like groupthink.
I don't like the herd mentality that a lot of people have
naturally. And then on top of that, then I
think that for instance, you take Biden and Trump, right?
Each party, a lot of their constituents, if you will, will

(01:30:36):
make it seem as though they're the next, the second coming of
whomever, right? Which is clearly not the fucking
case in either circumstance, right?
And it's perfectly fine, right? But the fact that people lobby
so hard and they're just like, no, this person is this and this
is person is that like, like this person is mentally as sharp
as he ever was. And it's just like, objectively

(01:30:58):
speaking, brother, like there's no.
Way right? And then they could be like, oh,
this person's the most moral person in the world and he's
fucking and he's just like, objectively speaking, there's no
way, right? And that doesn't mean that
neither candidate should have the job, right?
It doesn't mean that they're notthe right person.
It doesn't mean that they're notthe best fit for the for the
country and what's going to drive us forward, etcetera.

(01:31:18):
It just means that from a standpoint of being realistic,
then there are certain things about them that are not perfect.
And I don't think there's anything wrong with
acknowledging the fact that yourcandidate is not fucking
perfect, right? So when you say this candidate
is perfect and everything about this other candidate is evil or
wrong or whatever, then you missout on the opportunities of

(01:31:40):
understanding that there there is good on the other side and
there is something that can be valuable or bring added value,
if you will, to the other side. Does that have to do with Judge
We? Judge others by their.
Actions and ourselves, by our our intentions.
Think some of it. I think some of it also has to
do with a lot of people. Just fucking hypocrites.

(01:32:00):
How fucking annoying can I be? I can be pretty fucking
annoying. That's what I said to myself
when we first started. It's unnecessary.
Yep, pretty. Unnecessary, Sir.
You don't have to. Yeah.
No problem. I.
Wonder how much of this is goingto be edited just due to awkward
silence because we're fucking. I didn't know what it would be
like if I added something. Like a game to the to the

(01:32:20):
podcast just and I realized. It was probably a really bad
idea looking back. Probably.
Shouldn't have done that man. You made a fucking competition.
Fuck it. I'm just gonna go for it.
I was expecting something else, but I wasn't expecting that.

(01:32:40):
So while you're contemplating the state of universe, what's
your next question so I can think about how I want to
answer? Well, it was the the last thing
was we judge. Ourselves by our by we judge
others by their actions and ourselves by our intentions.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. I think people are just fucking
hypocrites. I think people are willing to

(01:33:01):
excuse their. Actions based off of.
What was just this or their extenuating circumstances?
Or I'm not a bad person, I just made a bad decision.
People not just not taking ownership for yeah, yeah, yeah,
but then. When someone else gets in
trouble, then. None of those factors apply.
All right? So we have this thing where it's

(01:33:21):
like this hierarchy of sins. And like there's an expression,
don't judge somebody because they sin differently than you
do, right? And there's always, there's also
an expression that the people who judge you the most are only
able to do so because their skeletons are still in their
closet. And so that's what I believe it.
Is for the most part. And I don't.

(01:33:43):
Think it's necessarily fair and.Don't get me wrong, like I there
are certain things where you show me a pedophile, I'll show
you somebody have 0 empathy for right?
But there's a lot of things where it's just like, hey man,
shit happens. And like, if you really go into
the circumstances associated with whatever the situation is
and it makes it really easy to understand how somebody got

(01:34:04):
here, or at least it makes it understandable where you don't
feel where you feel guilty about.
Yeah, at. At a certain point in my life,
had I been able to do. So and thought I would have
gotten away with it then I've been sure that I could get away
with it. And yeah, I probably would have.
And at this point in my life, I wouldn't.
And it has nothing to do with megetting away with it or not.
It's just a matter of I've grown, my value system has
developed and, and I think if I recall correctly, we were

(01:34:28):
talking about how people become better people over the course of
time. And I think that was an example
of that to where you know, when you're when you're younger.
Then. You're more prone to abstain
from certain activities due to the fact that it's prohibited
and there will be consequences associated with it that are
negative. And then as you age or develop,

(01:34:50):
then you get to the point where it's just like, I'm not going to
do that because it's not the right thing to do.
And that's the point that, you know, it's I guess it's ideal to
get to that makes sense. Does that partially have to do
whether? It's younger generation, older
generation that people don't feel guilty because they did
something wrong, but rather because they got caught.

(01:35:12):
I think the consequences of being caught.
Can make people feel guilty, OK,if that makes sense.
Because it makes you reflect. Yeah, reflect and be like, fuck,
this is horrible. And shit.
If this is happening to me, thenthen it had to have been really
bad or whatever. But I think it's a mixture.
I don't think it's one or the other.
I get there sometimes when people are truly pitching it,

(01:35:33):
penitent, penitent about something that they did.
And then there are the times when the only reason why they're
sorry is because they got caught.
So they're not really sorry. They're sorry about the
consequences, not sorry about the actions.
And then they're, you know, I would say there are times when
like the consequences are like time to reflect can give them
reason to pause and they actually think like, fuck, I

(01:35:55):
shouldn't have done that. And that has does that have to
do with people rationalize? Illogical behavior Rationalizing
logical or illogical behavior. I know there's.
One saying that most people. Want their emotional mind to
approve of their logical decision.
I think we try to. Think we try to rationalize

(01:36:16):
things that we want to do is like.
That's natural for humans. I don't know if we do a good.
Job of it, right? But we try.
That has to do. I mean, that's kind of like.
Experience realizing that. The mistakes that.
Could have been the mistakes that you didn't want to make or
shouldn't have made. Now you're not just going to
make it again because you already learned the

(01:36:38):
consequences. Ideally.
Ideally. Do you usually focus on what
people? Say or what they do.
Do OK give a fuck what people say.
Why is? That because it's it's just what
they say, like it's. I was in a relationship one time
when this young lady did something that was at least.

(01:37:01):
Per for what we. Verbalize to one another she
should not have done all right and I made my displeasure known
and over the course of. Whatever time then she.
Decided that she wanted to stillbe together and she could tell
that I was emotionally far gone.If you will.
You already detached from that relationship to Sir.

(01:37:23):
I was. Detaching it was It's not as
simple. As I'm making the sound right,
but I was detaching the process,yeah, and.
And she didn't want me to. So she wrote a very long and
detailed letter basically apologizing and, you know,
trying to salvage what she couldas far as my heart and whatever

(01:37:44):
the case may be. Right.
OK, Cool. Greta.
Like maybe a week or so later, we get into conflict.
And it may have something to do with the fact that I'm not fully
healed because of whatever it was that I experienced.
But we get into some type of a conflict.
And then she basically, whether she meant to or not, justified
her actions. So to me it's like, all right.

(01:38:05):
Well. You just said that you were
sorry, right? And you made it seem as though
you understood that this shouldn't have happened.
But then not even like a couple of days later, a week later
maybe, then you've now shown me that in actuality, that's
bullshit. You were not sorry.
You're not. You're not repentant for what

(01:38:26):
you did. You're sorry about the fact that
there are harsh, Not harsh. There are consequences
associated with it that you don't want to deal with.
So therefore, yeah. And.
So to that point, right, Like I don't can say whatever the fuck
you. I don't care about the the lip
service, if you will, I care about the actions.

(01:38:49):
How long did it take for you to realize it?
To be able to let go of those kind of.
Relationships faster. Does it take you like a month or
two? Or how much?
How long does? It take me now or?
Maybe at the time and how? How has it?
Progressed a year maybe to I don't know, I've been in some.
Toxic relationships for a while,right?

(01:39:11):
At this point, I, I, I I basically.
Leave either. Immediately or for some reason
there's a situation where I cannot leave immediately.
I put measures into place to where I will be able to.
I start planning my exit so pretty quickly.
Does that have to be that not? Everyone want to be emotionally
honest. They can't or be honest with

(01:39:32):
themselves. I think it's a lack of
accountability. A lot of people who don't don't
have a kind, they expect it, butthey're not able to really
deliver mutual accountability. So it just has to do with
expectations people don't expect.
Them they expect something from others, but they don't expect
themselves to provide that same same thing.

(01:39:53):
They're not OK with being held to the same standard, OK.
As as other people are. And why is it so hard to find
people like that? You're asking me, but who am I?
Supposed to ask, no? I forget what book I got that
from. Nah, not.
Really I'm thinking I should be able to Google that.
It was a series that I read, I recently read, I think within

(01:40:15):
the last six months at least. The question.
Oh, I do it. Was year in Aurelius?
I believe from Cradle by Will White, it's an amazing book
series. He's an amazing author.
Like one of my favorite progressive fan of the series of
all time. Alright, so anyway your question
was is that why is it so hard tofind people who want to take
accountability for their actions?

(01:40:36):
Not just need to, but want to. A lot to do with.
The way that society, society. Normalizes certain behaviors
from. Certain people.
So if you're in a. Group where?
If you're in a certain classification where it's
acceptable for you to react to your problems a certain way and

(01:40:59):
not do this or not do that, or not have to worry about that or
not be accountable, not be held accountable, then it makes it
easier for you to be yeah, to tohave that approach.
And then otherwise think accountability can be difficult.
Accountability can be. Difficult, I guess it's not easy

(01:41:20):
to understand, excuse me, To understand that you are the
problem or you're the reason whysomething didn't happen the way
that you wanted to. So it just has to do with let
people be the way that they are.Don't expect too much out.
Of someone, then they're. Willing to No, no, I don't think
that you should. Not expect certain things.
Specifically in the context of apartnership or a relationship

(01:41:45):
that you're heavily investing in, like, why would you put
yourself in a situation where you can't have any expectations?
I think that's a recipe for disaster at best.
So I think you should have those.
Expectations, I think. That you should just understand
that you know those expectationsare difficult to difficult to

(01:42:08):
meet. Right.
And you need to do your due diligence.
As far as making sure that you selected the right partner, what
would be? Your.
Ideal. Woman.
Oh, you can't ask me. That and you can't ask me that
on a. Podcast probably like.
Oh, 'cause I can't, 'cause if she's not, she's not.
OK, OK, clear, clear that question.
What are ideal? Qualities that you look for in

(01:42:31):
someone. Hold on me that we recompose
myself 'cause there is a possibility you might go on the
other side. I'm metrosexual.
I don't I I don't enjoy. Other men touching me, wrapping
their legs around me or making eye contact with them or or

(01:42:51):
screaming while they're doing something.
Unless it's in the context of jujitsu anyway.
Dude we do the gay shit in the world man.
Like it's like I was on a date not that long ago and I was
explaining it to her. She didn't.
I was like, there's a position called the guard and this is
like you're literally the man's,his legs are wrapped.

(01:43:13):
What are the what's What's 3? Ideal qualities that you look
for in in a potential mate and not checkmate.
Because I already know I'm very close to that.
And they're not as close to you.You're not as close as I like.
And put it like that, well, you could just stalemate it.
Just go back and forth. That'd be bullshit.
I'm not going to also actually. Based on this, I'm going to ask

(01:43:34):
you a different. Question instead of like screw
the women in a better question. This is an interesting situation
because well, I'm not there's like there's a lot of things
around me that doesn't necessarily mean that I will get
checkmated. There is pressure possibility of
it despite all the contingencies.

(01:43:55):
So how do you? How do you deal with pressure?
When you're in a stressful. Situation, but you know.
You have everything you need. It depends on what the context
is there's. Sometimes when I am.
Confident that I. Have everything I need and
that's a good place to be. And then there are other times

(01:44:16):
when we can say that I I understand that there are very
few times in life when things get better if I panic, period.
Very there, Yeah, there's very few.

(01:44:36):
Times when me getting completelyemotional about something or
there are very few times when like a loss of control results
on something positive. Wow.
Interesting. Very few times, yeah.
I never check. What was?
What's one of those? Examples.
An example when stuff gets better because I fucking panic.

(01:44:57):
I can't. I can't think of 1 I.
Just didn't say there's never because I don't want to be
absolute. But I'm trying to think of a
time when something's better because I panicked.
Someone, somewhere in the Internet is going to be like I
know. That one time and it's our
entire like Reddit page all about it.
Life doesn't get better because you panic.
I remember. So there was a.

(01:45:18):
Time I was at work and I had just gone I.
Was going through a bad. Breakup, right?
And I was really like depressed and stressed out and all this
other shit and I hadn't been sleeping well, sleeping well.
And my boss came. Down and it was an important.
Meeting and he was talking to meand I was just so just mired in

(01:45:41):
like, yeah, my emotions or whatever.
And I remember having a moment where I like did the whole self
talk thing and I was like, you're a fucking Marine officer.
Like, yeah, I was like, but fucking get over, get over and,
and, and not not get over as in like it doesn't exist.
But in this moment, do what the fuck you need to do in order to

(01:46:02):
to get through the situation. So put that shit to the side and
and and sack up and deal with what you need to do.
So there are times like that. You know there are times like.
That where it's just like I don't give myself a choice.
And I think if you would ask me how I persevere through most
things, I persevere through. Then number one is not panicking
#2 is I tell myself I don't havea choice, period, right.

(01:46:25):
So if I don't have a choice, then it's like my options are I
die or I continue on. So which one are we doing?
Not dying. So fuck it, continue.
So you're very good at detachingfrom something?
Let's say I'm good at it, but I'm not saying a. 100% detaching
but be able to put something. Aside as like I got, I got to do

(01:46:46):
something. This will be later when I'm able
to control my thoughts better. I'm good at distracting myself,
so that's a measure of. What you just described is
distracting myself, but I think it really is I would.
More so describe it as understanding that this although

(01:47:11):
this. May not be something I want to
deal with it. This is something I'm.
I'm going to do it. I just have to deal with.
So since I have to deal with this, then deal with it.
Yeah. I was so mean of you, Sir.
You went down there, you committed.
I don't, bro. You came all the way down here.
Whether or not I. Want to commit?
You walked her all the way down here like.

(01:47:32):
You can't. I mean you.
Can, but now that I've made the commitment, do I want to keep
it? Story of That's the question,
right? Question for men everywhere.
I've made the commitment, that'sthe thing.
About chess, it's like. I mean, unless.
You leave done thousands and thousands of of of games.
Oh OK I thought you're going to say 1000 * a month.

(01:47:53):
Shit, I don't know what the price.
Of life, it's like if you're notfamiliar exactly.
How everything is and haven't seen most moves and it's.
It's just a matter of whether ornot that risk was a was a
calculated risk or just a a stupid risk, yeah.
You mother trucker. I think I know what you're.

(01:48:15):
Doing but I don't like it. It's a nice.
Thing about chess, it's like my first reaction right now is I
hope you blunder something, but only because that that'll
suffice for my lack of skill in chess.
That makes sense. It makes sense.
Yeah, this. Is the longest game I've played
in years. Well, I also take way too much

(01:48:35):
time trying. To make sure I do both podcasts
and chess. If you review the results and
you're like, hey. We weren't as flowy as we should
have. No, no, no.
We can always do it again later.What I like about?
This. Episode over other.
Ones that there is that there's one thing tying everything
together and that's the chess game.
It's like it partially there's distraction, but also it's just

(01:48:59):
authentic. Like I don't regret cleaning the
board, I just wish I. Could be a little bit better
asking. Questions.
And I like how your night is like quietly judging my.
Night quietly judging you. Just like, well, technically my
night is judging. Your night because your night

(01:49:21):
can't see my night because horses can't see you directly in
front of them. But that's just being technical.
I enjoy put dancing. Perspectives, but to play.
The game, I didn't say that. I feel good about.
This one, though, the game, yeah, now, yeah, now, obviously.
Now a couple minutes ago, no like 20 minutes ago, I was like

(01:49:41):
fuck, fuck fuck. Pressure, right?
Pressure. It is just like, all right,
Like, how do you do it? Pressure and anticipation, yeah.
Yeah. And the the want for an ideal
outcome. Even though it's not the one
that I just don't want to lose in public now.
Not me fucking baby. Like watching this?
Shit, I was just like, given your position, unless you do.

(01:50:05):
Like one really stupid. Blunder, like moving your queen
right in front of my roof. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like I did that other game, yeah.
Just just a real bad memory. No, no, no, no.
I went, I went. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alas, for a solid like 30 seconds.

(01:50:26):
It was hilarious 'cause you had a pretty good position, but I
was it was, it was over and I was like and as soon as I.
Did I was like, I was like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no. And then you're like, I
resigned. Yeah.
I fuck, I don't wanna play. Anymore I'm glad I don't.
I don't. I don't bleed out swear words
anymore because this would be a pain in the butt.

(01:50:46):
Oh, I am actually capable of. Having a prolonged conversation?
Yeah, I can't. You don't believe it.
It doesn't. It doesn't matter.
There's already been like, nobody believes that I can be
human. Yeah, you know, believe it or
not. So this is this is.
Civility, this is I was a Sundayschool teacher for three years.
You were those poor kids. To a certain extent, yeah, but

(01:51:07):
that's not the point the. Point is, like, I'm quite
capable of speaking without using profanity and articulating
myself well enough. You're going to articulate
yourself. I can.
Wow, I don't know. It's.
Amazing that black people can dothat these.
Days. It's fucking telling you, man.
Like you. Got so it's a different world.

(01:51:27):
Yep, different time. Yep.
What would? You have told yourself. 20 years
ago, don't. Date this person anyway.
Well, except for the obvious. Except he stopped.
Well, like, I don't know man, if20 year olds you was sitting
right here. What would you want to tell him?

(01:51:50):
I don't know. It's hard, right?
Because you're familiar. With the butterfly effect right?
So I could tell myself all the best advice I could go into
specifics to a certain extent, like outsider saying buy stock
in this or fucking bet on this fight.
Bitcoin was bet on this fight is.
This person going to lose in 14?Seconds and assuming that

(01:52:12):
nothing would have changed in your life, but you just wanted
to say. Something.
What would be the point of 1 back and telling myself anything
if nothing changes? Well, it's also the point of you
said. Earlier if people who don't want
to accept your advice, but if you that that people don't want
to that some people will get. Yeah, but we talk about the
hypothetical version of me. From the past, like, you know,

(01:52:32):
but hypothetical like I'm not going to not be overbearing.
Myself, I slapped the shit out of.
Myself before I'm back and he said something I literally isn't
matter. If I were to go back in time and
talk to 20 year old me, I'd probably start off with slapping
shit out of me and be like shut up and listen.
So I had no conversation. I'd slap the shit out of myself
and then I would attack myself. And since I'm so much better
trained now, just fucking put myself in a get side control or

(01:52:56):
like, you know, so you would show how much you would show
how. Capable you are now.
It's not about proving to how capable I am.
It's about putting myself in a situation where it's just like
you're going to listen to me. Like, OK, so this brings this,
this kind of draws back to the question you asked earlier about
like you said something to the extent of like, am I more

(01:53:20):
forgiving of myself than? Others or something to that?
Extent like no, no, no, like I am much harder on myself, right?
Like so this would be an exampleof me being much harder on
myself. Like if I were to meet a young
man right now who's your age andI'm talking to him might be
upbeat and pile somewhat upbeat,like I could be cynical to a
different act some of the tight students.
But generally speaking, like there's a there's a modicum of

(01:53:42):
respect and whatever. Talking to myself, I'd be like,
don't you fucking ever do this right?
Don't you do this and do that, whatever.
And I'm being a little bit dramatic playfully, but excuse
me, generally speaking, I'll make sure that I understand
certain. Call it principles.
Would you say you're a very competitive guy?

(01:54:02):
I'm very competitive and challenged.
And when? I'm competent about what I'm
being challenged, but I'm not competitive for the sake of
being competitive. If you could take back one thing
in your life. There's like one time you could
look back, you could go back to that scenario and you could have
done something differently. What would have been probably
not something I would say on podcast, I would say the.
Night that you beat me, then I would take it that.

(01:54:24):
But now there's plenty of thingsI would go back and I don't
know. Oh, plenty of things there are
there are things that would go back and if I could change in
that instant and then jump back,right.
But what I can say is there's not a moment in my life where
I've made such a mistake to where I think it's back going.
I think it's worth going back and reliving all the years again

(01:54:46):
because I would again fuck some other shit up.
So so yeah, there's definitely some things, man.
Like I can think of times when I've said things that I've hurt
people or I've just had perspectives that were off.
I can think of relationships. I.
Shouldn't have been in and they.Ended up being, we'll say, doing
more harm than good. I can think of times when I've

(01:55:07):
said things to people that I simply should not have that
caused a lot of harm as well. I accept these conditions.
I forgot. That was the thing.
Accepting conditions. No, I forgot.
My night was right next. To your Rook I.
Was just like, I accept those conditions too Yeah, the.
Possibility of me winning has gone down to. 0, not 0

(01:55:28):
considering my puns cannot advance.
And my Rook is. I mean, I could move my king
right here and you could put your Rook there and.
Checkmate, No 10. If I I'm sorry, I can move my
king right here. I can move my Rook.
Offline you could ruin the entire possibility of that
happening because. I ain't got no diagonals.

(01:55:49):
No, you don't. Nope.
It's a good place to be in. Yep, you could.
Literally just get. Your Rook and start sideswiping
all my pawns and boom, I could do that and then and then.
Slowly. Advance your pawns up to get
your queen back. Do all those things.
Two pawns up and you know that one thing that could.
Just ruin my entire possibility.Yeah, let me go do that.

(01:56:11):
Gosh, it's such a difficult. Decision.
You need me. I am satisfied with this guy.
This game got caught on camera. Too, though, so super the
possibility that you could have lost.
Yeah, yeah. I.
Was like, see, I'm glad of that.Yeah, fuck it.

(01:56:32):
Oh no, no, not my. Pawn.
Check. Oh no.
Check. Oh boy.
Only. One at a time.

(01:56:52):
Where do I go? Gosh, it's such a difficult
decision though, right? I don't know what I should do
you. Know A1C 1A1.
C1A1C. One and B2, Yeah.
Hey, hey. ABCABCDEFC, he does the top of
that. There we go.

(01:57:14):
There we go. Sorry.
Yeah, that was a long game.

All Episodes

Relationship Advice and Military Stories While Playing Chess - Jay Johnson

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang

Dateline NBC

24/7 News: The Latest

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Relationship Advice and Military Stories While Playing Chess - Jay Johnson