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August 14, 2025 60 mins

In this raw and riveting episode of Suddenly Different, Vicki Tyler takes us through not one—but two—literal life-shattering falls. From a 50-foot drop in a remote Northern Territory gorge that left her airlifted by flying doctors, to a freak sleepwalking accident that crushed her spine just months after she bungee-jumped to conquer her fear of heights.

But this isn’t just a story about broken bones—it’s about breaking patterns.

Vicki speaks candidly about witnessing trauma in her teens, overcoming gender bias in leadership, and the moment she stopped living on autopilot and started asking: Why not me? With her trademark mix of curiosity and courage, she invites us to challenge the stories that keep us small—and to reclaim our voice, our impact, and our place at the table.

If you’ve ever faced fear, fallen hard, or wondered how to rise again—this is your reminder that sometimes, what breaks you… also wakes you.

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome to Suddenly Different, where we explore stories and
strategies for life when it doesn't go to plan.
I'm Leanne Sharland, inviting you to join me on this journey.
What happens when you fall literally from life as you knew

(00:27):
it? In today's episode of Suddenly
Different, I'm joined by the remarkable Vicky Timer.
Her story reads like a cinematicdrama airlifted from a remote NT
gorge after a near fatal accident, confronting her fear
of heights by leaping off a bridge in a bungee harness, and

(00:47):
then, when she thought she was finally back on solid ground,
sleepwalking out of a first floor apartment window and
breaking her back again. But this isn't just a talk story
about physical trauma. It's about the emotional
landscapes that shape us. Vicky grew up watching friends

(01:09):
experiencing life altering events in their teens.
She questioned the rules early, broke through gender bias before
many dead, and LED from a place of deep curiosity about herself,
about people, and about what it means to truly rise.
When life pulls, you wonder. From emerging emergency

(01:33):
extractions and conscious leaps to unconscious fails.
This episode is for anyone who'sever asked, how do I keep going
when everything breaks? Vicky, welcome, welcome,
welcome. It's so amazing for you to be
here today. This is a treat I really
appreciate you having me on. It's.
It's so wonderful meeting peoplefrom other countries and and

(01:57):
realising that there is actuallysimilarity in how we've overcome
things to get to where we are. And when we're in that trauma,
illness, sudden space where things are different, we forget
that we've done it before, we'vegot over struggles, and we can

(02:20):
rise. So for the listeners today, I
would love you to share your stories from from as deep as
you'll go to tell them that they've got this and just like
you, they can do amazing things and impact lives everywhere.
I love that. So before before it all changed.

(02:43):
Well, before one of your changesanyway.
So what was life like before youwent to the NT and found a
gorge? Well, can I just touch on
something that you said in your in your beginning is that I do
believe as much as you know, a lot of us certainly in Australia
and New Zealand that are listening to this.
We're, we're big travellers. And the more I've travelled

(03:05):
around the world, I've realised the more similar we are then we
are different when it comes to sort of the human condition and
navigating things. But yeah, so I grew up in New
Zealand and then when I was 18 Iwent off on a backpacking trip.
It was meant to be 4 months, Sydney, QLD, Bali, Perth and
home. And five years later I found my
way back to New Zealand. Because for those of us that I

(03:27):
think it was more common then togo backpacking and, you know,
make the pilgrimage to the motherland with the two year
working visa in the UK. But yeah, I had, I lived, I grew
up in Auckland with a family of four kids.
My dad had his own construction company.
Life was was really interesting.I had a couple of whoopsies in
my teens and I think that was part of the reason I was
actually quite happy, happy to go backpacking.

(03:48):
I didn't go to uni then because I didn't know what I wanted to
study and I was kind of done with school.
So I do like the fact because we've just lived 20 years in the
States that certainly in Australia and New Zealand, it's
still very respectable to, you know, go and get a job when you
leave school or go backpacking or go to a trade college or go
to university or any number of options.
Whereas the US tends to be a little more singularly focused

(04:09):
that, you know, university is where you need to head.
But you know, so I I was backpacking for five years and
literally about 4 1/2 years intoit was when I found myself in
almost in gorge. And like, tell me about that
day. Were you were you climbing?
Were you just just climbing up on on rocks or were you on a

(04:34):
path or? Yeah.
So did you have a garden? Yeah.
So it was about a 15 minute drive from basically from Alice
Springs. You go 130 kilometres West and
it's the end of the Tacio Road and that's where it goes out to
a lot of the Aboriginal community.
So it was the last place you could get petrol.
There was a, the Glen Helen Lodge has, yes, just

(04:54):
accommodation and a beautiful little restaurant called
Cloudy's. I'm not sure if it's still
there. And then one of the sightseeing
options was to go, you know, youcan go helicopter riding or to
climb around in Ormiston Gorge and there's a big track on the
top. And I was walking with a friend
and I realised I've got to get back for work for a shift.
I was working in the restaurant and I, we saw this big family

(05:17):
coming. We're like, you know what?
Let's just, let's just skittle down and go down to the gorge
because it looks like for anybody that hasn't been there,
it feels, it looks like the whole mountain range is sort of
fallen over. So it makes these very natural
looking steps. And I was very mindful that
there had been a school group from Melbourne actually that had
been up there three weeks before.
And some of the kids had been scampering around, just watched

(05:38):
some rocks and boulders had fallen down.
And one kid got knocked down to the river and died.
And another one got really badlyhurt.
So I was very mindful that it was a little bit precarious.
So I just said to my friend, howabout you wait here till I get
down to that? You know, that ledge?
I took one step and I felt myself go.
And I can still remember what happened in my head is that as I

(06:00):
started going over the edge and I had my hands up behind me and
I was getting up speed and I wastrying to grab anything.
But it was that very brittle, shiny red rock, which is very
slippery. And there was tiny Tufts of
grass, you know, we're not talking about like maybe one or
two centimetres high. And there was nothing to grab.
And then I remember thinking, tothis day, I can still remember

(06:22):
thinking, Oh my, OMG, this is it.
Because there's no way I'm surviving.
And then I just passed out. At some point when I was on my
way down, it would have taken less than 3 seconds to hit the
bottom. And it was about 50 feet.
It was dry. So it's just rocks down there.
My friend said that he doesn't remember getting himself down

(06:46):
when he just saw me disappear. And when I woke up I could hear
him yelling for help. He'd run.
And then when there was a lake and he was yelling to people he
could see near the Ranger station and he said it was the
weirdest feeling. Even now, it makes my stomach
feel uncomfortable when you're yelling help and you really,
really mean it. So he called for help.
It was. There's a lot of

(07:06):
miscommunication between Alice Springs and where we were.
And in the end, helicopter, the sightseeing helicopter where I
was working, came into the gorgeand landed and an ambulance had
arrived. So there were paramedics and I
can remember them cutting off myjeans and I'm like, no, not my
good jeans. So something happens when, you
know, 4 hours, four hours. There was so much adrenaline
pumped through my body. Anyway, they strung me up.

(07:29):
The helicopter pilot didn't realise it was me.
There was so much blood and all the rest.
We had no idea what was wrong. I thought I might have broken
some ribs. I was having a bit of trouble
breathing. But anyway, I got airlifted by
the chopper out to the parking lot and then an ambulance.
This journey back into Alice Springs into urgent emergency
where they sort of scrubbed out my skull and cleaned me up.

(07:49):
And I was still pretty pumped upat that point.
I'm sure they've given me something for the pain.
And it was the next day that they said to me, we're flying
you down to Adelaide with the flying doctors to the royal
alert to the spinal unit. And that's when I think I broke
down and they start to explain what was wrong.
Yeah. And it turns out I had a massive

(08:10):
amount of trauma going on in my body.
Wow. So it was interesting that I
feel for my mum like the the call she must have got in the
middle of the night from the doctors, they sort of stabilised
me and they said look, we have Vicky here.
She is in a serious condition. She has multiple skull
fractures, she's paralysed on the right hand side of her face

(08:32):
and has no hearing. She's conscious at the moment
and she has breaks in her, fractures in her neck, 3
fractures in her pelvis. She's got a broken leg.
We're taking her to the Royal Albert Spinal Unit.
When can you come? So she flew in pretty quickly
and the doctors there was real they were they were unclear.
There's no consensus about whether I would walk and and
hear and see again the same. And so that three months was

(08:56):
that I spent in that spinal unitwas probably the most profound
period of my life where I learned lessons in my 22 that a
lot of us don't get until our 40s and fees, perhaps when our
parents start passing away, you get closer to mortality.
And so I, so I think that what happened is that there was a 12
bed ward and I was the only one in the ward at that time that

(09:20):
was still had use of my hands. All the other patients who ended
up there overnight were quadriplegics.
So they could, they put me in a room on the end.
So because I could still ring the bell for a nerve.
So I was flat and they were not going to operate.
We just need everything to to mend as best as it could.
They had decisions not to operate on me and to give you an
idea, my so my mum, all the relatives would hang out

(09:41):
together and my mum would come back and report.
There was a young guy that came in a couple of nights after me.
He had been driving around the roads of Adelaide with his mate
and the cops off roaded his vehicle, their vehicle.
So they went back and they hot white it and they was hooning
around the streets and slammed it into a wall and he hit his
neck and became a quadriplegic immediately.
So when he came in and there wasbells and nurses and doctors and

(10:04):
everything, the story was that he came, became conscious and
said, what's going on, What's going on?
They said, look, you've been in an accident.
He's like, I can't feel my legs,that you've hurt your spine.
He's like, Oh my God, Oh my God,that's it, right?
I'm like paralysed. And he's like, that's it, I'm
going. And he flatlined and they
brought him back. And then he went through the,

(10:25):
you know, the stages of death, the denial, the losses.
And for me, why this was one example of where I just got such
an insight into how a small period of a push of people on
the planet who are living every day like you and I suddenly
their life has changed forever. He would ask his mother to lick
his face, and that was very hardfor his mom.

(10:46):
But it was the only place he hadme feeling.
And he'd been a sort of a heavy goth metal head.
Never had very sullen at, you know, smoking a lot of weed,
hadn't smiled in years. And and he started to smile and
laugh. It was doctors back then with
the the EQ of what we did back then said to his parents, it's
like, you know, if you don't have a strong marriage, guys,
six months is the average. Like this was a very confronting

(11:09):
as I hear all these stories. So I walked out of there defying
all the doctor's prognosis 3 months later, but the people had
become friends would never walk again.
That was where I got to access deep levels of very deep levels
of empathy and connection. I didn't know I was capable of
feeling. And these are accessible to all
of us. So in a way, I sort of pose this
to people I work with. It's like, you know, why don't

(11:31):
we access these? And it begins with curiosity
because I had a lot of time to think and I would get very
curious about what was what, what their lives had been like
before, what their lives would be like and got just became very
comfortable with asking questions.
I think when you're, when you'redirect and fearless and
respectful and you ask questions, it's amazing what
people will tell you and share with you.

(11:51):
Yeah. Did you notice that you were
really living in the now when you were in the hospital during
that three month time? So you were rather than sort of
thinking about the future in that you didn't know what it was
going to be. Very much so.
Very much so. I was very, very, very focused
on healing. Yeah.

(12:11):
So I had read books at that point in my life about healing,
about the power, the ability we have through various techniques
of the mind to help heal. And I was engaging those on a
daily basis throughout the day. In fact, they got me to speak to
other patients. They wheeled my bed over.
There's a guy who was having trouble.
And, you know, my mom brought mea scalpel and glue.

(12:33):
And I mean, I'm doing this all sort of upside down for the most
part, but making positive signs.And I was, you know, writing,
making cards and things for people and I would make them for
some of the other patients as well.
And that kind of thing helped mesay in a very, very positive
space when I knew that I was notparalysed permanently that I
would. And so I was determined to get

(12:54):
out of there as quickly as I could.
Yeah. So did did you end up from from
that episode? Did you end up with any
permanent irregularities in yourbrain, or with your hearing or
with your mobility? Yeah, the biggest 1 was my
pelvis was broken in three pieces and one of the bones they

(13:14):
just knitted like this. So they said to me, and I was
22. Look, when you have babies, one
day if that happens, you'll probably need C-section, which I
did have twice. And I just, you know, the other
little things, I consider myselfa very small negligible compared
to what it might have been. Yeah.
Amazing. Yeah.
And I think the ability to help others in the ward to, you know,

(13:35):
give them hope. If they were seeing you with
hope, then you know that would have helped them.
So and it was having that helping way.
It's, it's really interesting because I grew up in a family
where we had a very big pay for culture in the community and all
the rest of it. So I wasn't actually thinking it
wasn't a conscious decision other than I think where it

(13:55):
really stemmed from was, you know, my mom and other relatives
would hang out together and for most of the people there, right,
they were trying to adapt. Can you imagine, you know,
having to work out, OK, when we go home, we need to, we need
ramps, we need different bathrooms, we need like
everything is going to change. So there was a lot of a lot of
those patients were really struggling mentally.

(14:16):
It was just the relatives of theof the patients that would talk
to my mom and they're like, hey,maybe she could.
I was like, Oh my God, if I could do anything to help
anybody like that would be, I would really find that very
extraordinary and and rewarding.It's totally.
Extraordinary and I think when you're. 22 like you don't know
what you don't know. So I wasn't shy about helping at

(14:37):
that point. I was like, yes.
And we were in, we were all, allof us.
I'm talking about the relatives,the patients.
This was new to all of us exceptfor the staff who were, I had
nothing to do with nurses or hospitals prior to that.
And Oh, my gosh, nurses, the most amazing, I think some of
the most amazing people on the planet and, and not recognised
for the work that they do. And here's, you know, this was
interesting. I was 22 and I was, you know,

(14:58):
being showered flat on my back with a male nurse like this was
really, really uncomfortable. So I learned a lot of like, OK,
I just got to leave my dignity at the door because these are,
you know, professionals that just do what they do.
And this, again, was a world I had not been exposed to.
So a lot of respect for particularly nurses.
I develop and that time. Yeah.
And it. Is interesting.

(15:18):
I know different experiences I've had in in the hospital
system is it's a job for them, right?
And the wonderful ones that do it with love and empathy and you
know, that's amazing, but it's ajob for them.
So they don't see us like, you know, as a romantic partner or
anything. They see us as somebody who

(15:40):
needs a bar, which is which is it can be a little confronting
if you've got a story in your head that doesn't understand
that. Yes, and I would.
Imagine that they probably wouldnot give a male, a male nurse
bathe a female patient. Now, like I when I think back, I
think that was kind of a little bit odd, but you know, there
were specialist, I guess nurses that worked in the spinal unit

(16:05):
and whoever was on shift. I can.
Understand and I apologise to everybody if you are hearing
next door mowing his lawn never heard him mow it before, but
today he is when we we go on to that.
We've gone through the mortalityright at A at a young age facing

(16:25):
unknown future, right. So then three months you leave
hospital then did you go back toNew Zealand or?
Yeah. So that.
Was the tail end of my backpacking days.
And so yes, I ended up back in Auckland.
So after five years leaving and I, I need to get a job.
So I hung up my backpack and I Igot my first real job with

(16:49):
Flight Centre. That was a teeny little company
back then. They only had eight retail
stores in New Zealand and 30 in Australia.
And so I started as a travel agent and it was great.
I loved it. And my life was pretty much on
autopilot. You know, I didn't reflect too
much on my accident at all, really.
So I would party hard with friends on a Friday night, I

(17:11):
would jog on a Saturday, I wouldsleep in on a Sunday and rinse
and repeat. So I think it probably, probably
a lot of people can relate to family members or teenagers or
young adults that are just kind of like cruising.
And that was me until literally something snapped me out of it
one day. So I'm happy to share you with
you that story of this. Yeah.
Well. Is that deciding to facial feel

(17:31):
or is that something else? So that was.
What had happened, I had realised over the 18 months
since I left that hospital was I'd started to develop a fear of
heights and I was the kind of person that would do anything,
go anywhere, you know, and very sort of adventurous.
So this bothered me immensely. And so I decided to go down to
Queenstown and do a bungee jump because for anybody that hasn't

(17:53):
been there, I like to describe Queenstown as kind of like Swiss
Alps meets Red Bull, like high octane sports on tap everywhere
and beautiful little mountain town and the South of the South
Island of New Zealand. So a friend came down with me do
the bungee jump to kill or cure.I felt like this fear of
heights, the bungee jump for anybody that hasn't done one, I
mean, it's extraordinarily exhilarating right as you go.

(18:15):
Like there is no way not to pretty much scream your head off
as you're going down. It's just a mind blowing
experience. And I, it was exhilarating.
I felt like I faced the fear. I like walked away stronger.
We partied that night and then Iwent to bed and it was a couple
of hours later that I woke up and turns out that I had slept
walked and out a second story window and landed in a sitting

(18:39):
position on a concrete path. And I crushed my spine again.
So I hadn't ever slept walked before.
But this was the irony, right, That I had broken my back and
that was the reason I was there to do this bungee jump.
So it was, again, it was a complicated extraction where I
was in the back of the house. It was dark.
It was, I didn't know where I was.
I literally couldn't see my hands in front of my face.

(19:00):
I was screaming, I couldn't makesense of it.
And they got me out of there. This was a bank, it was wet, it
was slippery. And then they airlifted me to
Auckland to for spinal surgery and they fused a couple of my
vertebrae because I had crushed.I was very lucky again for the
second time. But the area that your cord has
to move in was compromised by about 60% and I broke a wrist.

(19:21):
But it's so I've used AI to tellme that I'm like .045% lucky to
be alive, let alone walking based on all the accidents and
break breakages. And so this was the accident
that let me up. I got it because I felt like
after the first one and he was the irony.
So like Harry was again for months recuperating from a

(19:42):
spinal fusion. And I started thinking really
deeply about what on earth was going on because, you know, I
don't know if you believe in Godor Buddha or the universal
coincidence. But for me, I was like, this
felt like a boom, boom, boom on my shoulder.
Like, hey, girlfriend didn't getit the first time.
Like we are going around again. And so I'm like, well, and I

(20:02):
actually got freaked out becauseI was like, I couldn't work out
what this was all about. And then it started to dawn on
me that my dad had always, you know, like the little person
sitting on your shoulder, like you get 100 years on this planet
gets you got to make. The most of every one of them.
And I started to think like changed my thinking from why me
to why not me. And really it started getting

(20:24):
into deep questions about like what is my purpose on the
planet? You know, could there be more
for me and how do I leave the world a better place for me
having been in it and started toask those kinds of questions.
And then what happened in my little journey at my at work was
that the company had started putting on like golf sitting
courses and leadership courses. And I'm yes, please, yes,
please. And my friends from my friend

(20:45):
reminded me recently, she said to you, remember, you were 24
and you signed up for Toastmasters and you were quite
shy. And we couldn't believe it.
So I had worked out that to get to grow, right, I mean, I had to
get outside my comfort zone. So I started doing this and I
started setting sales goals and smashing them and applying for
leadership jobs and getting them.
And I was, I become the top consultant in New Zealand a

(21:08):
couple of and then I started a business that became the most
profitable, the best startups, this kind of thing.
And I ended up in Toronto with the startup in Eastern Canada
and then back to New Zealand potentially to, to run things
there. And I was shoulder tapped to
head to LA to take over the running of the US operation,
which was not going well. It'd been open for 12 months.
So that was kind of my journey. It just started going.

(21:30):
I just, and So what this is accessible to all of us.
This is what I with the women that I work with is that I
started reading books like feel the fear and do it anyway.
And this idea of getting out of our own way and life is short.
We really don't know if we couldbe snuffed out tomorrow.
So this whole thing, what have Igot to lose?
And that's kind of how I lived my life to today.
And because anything compounds. So if we're like, and I talk a

(21:52):
lot now about women getting their hands up and speaking up
right, And this little doubt that pops up in the back of all
our minds. It's like, and, you know, it
could be anything. Like, what do they think I'm
stupid? What if, you know, I open my
mouth and rocks tumble out instead of this awesome idea I
think is going to make a difference in the company.
And so when we hesitate, we pound that and we think we'll
wait till next time, We'll wait till next time and we'll wait

(22:14):
till next time and we wait till next time.
And then we wonder why we don't get promoted, even if we're the
top salesperson or we're the youknow, we're, we're in there
first in the day and we're working late at night and we're
clients love us, but these leadership skills and
communication skills, they're accessible for all of us.
And that idea of, you know, getting outside our comfort zone
is there for all of us to take. But the more and, and So what I

(22:37):
talk about is this deep curiosity that I started to use
in both of my hospital stays helped me access.
Basically, it meant that fear went by the wayside.
Because now I've, I actually, I'm jumping ahead a little bit
on my story, but I went to uni recently for the very first time
to do a graduate diploma in applied psychology because I
wanted to understand what does this science say about my

(23:00):
journey and the woo woo and, youknow, meditating and where does
the science suggest that we can all make a difference in our
lives today? And I said to people here we are
at point A in our lives, travelling along a line to point
B. And you know, you, you put your
hand up once or you suggest youridea that, that somebody says,
Hey, that's good. And you shift your trajectory
teeny weeny bit. But as these compound where you

(23:21):
end up at point CA long way fromwhere you would have been at
point B. So going back to the steep
curiosity, it lights up a part of our brain that is in direct
competition with where fear lives because only one lobe can
light up at a time. So when you engage with
curiosity, like as in reframing,Oh my God, am I, they're going
to think I'm stupid versus this is how I grow.

(23:44):
What say somebody else wants to ask the question, pick your
reframe, right? And you ask the question, then
the fear has no place to go because when you're staying in a
place of curiosity, what say they really like this?
What say this really makes a difference for the company
etcetera, etcetera, etcetera then So fear and curiosity, they
are competing for your attention.
Fear is very accessible. In fact for a lot of us it's a
slippery slide. It's slip very it's almost like

(24:06):
a slip and slide when we do it too often.
But curiosity is also extremely accessible.
And one of the things like, do you mind me sharing a couple of
stats around curiosity because Ithink this is guide for.
It yeah, so. So from the time we're born to
about 5 before we start school, right, we learn to walk and and
eat by ourselves and and we ask about 131,000 questions from the

(24:28):
time that most of us around 5-6 start traditional school.
I think is it about 6 in Australia, 5 or 6?
Yeah, about. Five and a half, six, yeah, so.
From from that age until the endof primary school, which is
about 5 years as well, on average, we're raising our hands
about or asking about 950 questions compared to 131,000.

(24:49):
And some kids and we would all remember them or not, but in
their last year of primary school can go a whole year with
us without us raising our hands even once.
So what's happening to that partof our brain that was so
incredibly active? Schools and teachers do not have
the capacity to reward the right, you know, more questions.
They reward the right answers. So we learn to become very

(25:10):
compliant. And then you think about sort of
middle or Intermediate School and high school, it's the same
kind of thing, less and less, right?
So there's a misconception, I think that when we're teenagers,
we're not told about, well, whenyou become an adult, I mean, we
assume, I guess that when we become adult, we can do this and
this and this and this and this.Well, it's only the compounding
of, you know, learning to drive or putting our hands up in

(25:30):
meetings or, you know, picking up the phone and having a
conversation that we become whatkind of adult we become.
So this idea of, yeah, becoming really curious and, and re
engaging with that part of us. Because, you know, I say to
people, the last time you had, you know, 10 minutes to spare,
did you pick up your phone and scroll or did you sit there and
think about some of those ideas that you've been having?

(25:50):
Buzz, we have an idea, we generate an idea.
This is super conservative every10 seconds.
So over 8600 every day and the law of averages, it says that
every now and then one of those is going to be a game changer
for you, right? All the people in your company
or you know, your workmates. But what are we doing with those
good ideas guys? Like that's what I, I sort of

(26:11):
ask in in a crowd, because we don't sit and think about sit
with those often enough. We've got too many sort of shiny
objects. But this is a it's stopping and
working with people and and working in that space so that
when you are in those meetings and that little, you know, you
have that little self doubt. We work through how to deal with
that so that you can get yourself.
I talk about getting women to the front of the pack.
Well. Where we should be?

(26:33):
Well, I think this is. Yeah, it's alongside.
Whoever else is in the room, yes, I I hope that that within
my grandchildren's lifetime thatthis gender competition is more
the competition to improve each other rather than to compete

(26:54):
against each other. I actually really like the way.
You frame that I I am not about quotas.
I do not think we should have more women leaders just because
they're women. My job, my feel like what I'm
trying to do is help women prepare so that when those
leadership opportunities come up, they're ready for them and
they're brave enough. Statistics say that men will
apply for a job when they have 60% of the criteria.
Women won't apply until they've got 100% and the world at the

(27:17):
moment at the top is still 90% male leadership and 10% female.
But looking at what's going on in the world, it could do with a
slightly better balance right now.
And women, most definitely. Differently.
Yeah, women. Being women leading differently
would be awesome. And also, I think that us
choosing to educate ourselves, become skilled ourselves, is not

(27:41):
at the whim of our workplace or at the whim of somebody else
paying for it. It's a choice that we have
because once we've activated ourreticular activation system, we
will find the way to get the knowledge we have to choose.
I want to have the. Knowledge.

(28:01):
I agree. And I think there's so much, so
many people with skills readily accessible these days online.
And I have two coaches right now.
One is for speaking. And so throughout my life, I
have always sought mentors, whether I've had the capacity to
pay for them or I've done courses to improve myself and my
game and my leadership game and the way that I communicate in

(28:23):
the world. And, you know, a lot of us now
unfortunately have the access todo a like a free master class on
Instagram for. But how often do we actually
implement that? So, yeah, I employ, I admire
anybody that goes out there to, to grow their expertise, whether
it's guitar playing or your leadership capacity or
meditation. Yeah.
Yeah. Well.
And and that is The thing is, ischoosing for yourself and, and

(28:46):
then actually, I don't know whether this is the right word,
but actualizing it. So, so we invest time, we might
invest money, but if we then don't action it, then we may as
well not done the other two things because if we don't use
it, yes. And it's it's, you know, very
much whatever you're doing is tomake sure you have an

(29:10):
accountability buddy, I think. And, you know, I have friends
that do this with me or even my 19 year old son's down in uni.
And I said, how do you feel about like, how you going with
your YouTube watching? He said, Oh yeah.
So I said, well, why don't we doa 24 hour hiatus?
Like let's just have a challengebetween the two of us and we'll
check in this time tomorrow. And he did better than I did,
but with the scrolling. And then I'm like, do you want
to go again? And he's like, yeah, so and then

(29:30):
we were done for two days. You know, just there's nothing
stopping us from doing those little things at any point.
But having a buddy and I reckon anybody out there that's
listening to us, it's like, hey,you want to do a scrolling
hiatus for every Monday for the next month or just tomorrow, or
particularly the scrolling? Because I think what's
happening, and unfortunately, particularly for our young

(29:50):
women, we're scrolling about twoto four kilometres a day, maybe
42 hours a week. What's happening is the site
shows that when we're actually scrolling and we're commenting
or we're liking or or not, it puts us in a really
psychologically in a position ofinfluence and power and
judgement. So when we put our devices down,
we show up in the world. We have a much more judgmental

(30:12):
focus of each other versus that curiosity piece that and like
this perspective seeking that. I encourage women because once
you go from being curious about people, then you graduate into
becoming a perspective seeker sothat you and I've had some good
chats and where you just start to to learn from each other.
You know, about your perspectiveof the world around a certain
topic. And that's how we become

(30:32):
exceptional human beings and leaders, right?
When we can look at the same problem from every aspect.
And we only get that from askingeach other without judgement how
they would solve a problem or how do they see this problem or
what am I missing? Absolutely.
And and, you know, it comes backto having those conversations,
right? I am as part of my recovery,

(30:53):
I've rebuilt neural pathways. And one of the things that I've
been doing for a year is going to philosophy class.
And this way, we're learning at the moment in this term, we're
learning about love and, and we're learning about meeting our

(31:14):
people or our experiences as though it's for the very first
time. So I recently had AI did a photo
shoot the week before I had thatlesson in philosophy, looked at
the photos. The makeup lady had not done my
makeup the way I do it. I didn't like those photos.
So then I I got the advice, lookat them as though for the first

(31:36):
time and I looked at them and I could see how she interpreted my
face, how she interpreted what Iwas wearing and what would be
better. And I actually ended up liking
the photos. Fantastic.
Because I. Had a judgement in that, you
know, I wanted my eyes to be darker or whatever.

(31:57):
And, you know, having that guidance with, you know, what
would a wise person do, you know, even thinking, you know,
now that we've we've created a connection between each other,
I'm certain that there'll be times when I'll think of you and
it'll be I wonder what Vicky would think about this.
Well, I could and if I. Listen, I'll probably hear it,

(32:19):
yeah. Yeah, I love that.
You know, I got the ultimate perspective lesson two years ago
when I went to uni and the very first assignment we had to do
was to list everything, because I'm in New Zealand, everything
we know about Maori, like everything, the good, the, the
stereotypes, the. And then in the next column it's
like, where did you learn that? And it was a fascinating,

(32:41):
fascinating because I would, forthose of you in Australia, I
would recommend you do it with the Aboriginal community.
And because I knew I'm very proud of the Malta heritage that
we have here. But they're also, there's some
stereotypes and I lured those around the dining room table.
And so I had just hung on to them because right from zero to

(33:01):
about 8 is when we learn all of our belief patent patterns and
behaviour systems. So I had just picked that up and
I didn't realise I was hanging on to it.
So then I was able to do something about it because I was
given an opportunity to to a perspective of how I had learned
something and that I had just been on autopilot.
Right. We are never too young to gain

(33:22):
or old to get perspectives and it just makes our lives so much
richer. Exactly.
And. I think that I mean, most of our
beliefs are based from our childhood and and they were
created to protect us, will keepus safe in the environment we
were living in to the best of the ability of those around us,

(33:42):
right. But it is as adults, it is our
responsibility to question thoseand to look deeply at, you know,
some of those beliefs as you didwith your bungee jump, right,
yes. And and you, you decided that,
you know, I do not want to accept this limitation in my
life. I am going to to use this

(34:05):
methodology. Your subconscious mind had a
different thought, but that's OK.
I'm I'm sure you've spoken aboutthat to others.
We don't do that on this on thisepisode, but but I think, you
know, if we, if we are aware of where our bias or our beliefs
are lying and we have the curiosity to to question those.

(34:27):
And then the willingness to openup our, our, our, our tight
circle and allow other ideas in,not just from the media, not
just from social media, not justfrom those, those who have the
power to influence us, but from,you know, those everyday

(34:49):
communities that, you know, the indigenous, the immigrants.
Some of the most amazing people that I've met through through
speaking have been those who've come from other countries that
have shared, you know, first world problems, like important
problems, probably I've miss misnamed it, but like important

(35:10):
things. Whereas we think, you know, some
of our problems are really important.
Yeah, but their life and death problems, Yes.
What's? Interesting.
I ran an event this week called Curious Women Leave Differently,
and that's the point. And because I've become quite
interested in what's going on with men and women in
leadership. And I found a lot of evidence

(35:31):
that suggests that men in modernmodern day are not consciously
trying to get women small. So if we take that off the table
then or let's just say, you know, there was only women
leaders, we would still have this issue of some of us keeping
ourselves small, right? So, so but if we take the men

(35:51):
issue off the table and I started looking into what's
going on, how do we get to this place?
And sure, we have this history of, you know, all the generals
and the prime ministers were allmale, right?
You know, like to think, what was Mrs Churchill doing while
Winston was running the war, right.
She was allowed to make the cucumber sandwiches.
In fact, she was an extraordinarily intelligent
woman doing a lot of work. But so we've got this history
that brings us to this point. And then I started researching,

(36:14):
what do we say to our sons versus our daughters when we're
raising them? Like, what's implicit, what's
unconsciously being said, You know, because.
And the evidence is like glaringthat we do say to our boys, oh,
don't worry, just get over it. You know, go for it.
Maybe you could be the captain. What about, you know, leadership
type questions? Whereas to our girls, there's a

(36:36):
lot more language when they're younger, right?
And up to the age of eight. Let's be a good girl.
Make sure you say your please and thank yous.
And if they need help in the kitchen or if you can just do
something, you know, don't be a problem.
Call me if you get scared. So it's, and one of the women
that was on this event this week, she said, you know what
I'm thinking about the way that my mother, her grandmother talks
to her because my little girl was like, I am really good at

(36:59):
that. And the grandmother had
something along the lines of, well, let's not get too full of
ourselves, right? So it's really interesting about
I think we need to stop and think about the language where
the implicit language, I mean, ideally teachers would do it
too, but certainly parents in the way that we're raising our
boys and our girls. And I am the mother of two boys,

(37:19):
so the reason I'm actually working with women exclusively
was, do you mind if I share thisthis with you?
Absolutely. I'm the mother of two boys, OK?
Both of them in in leadership roles that's.
Amazing -17 and 19. So when I started this, you
know, coaching around leadershipand facilitating, I was across
the board. And then we, we did the first

(37:41):
presidency of Trump in the USA. We were living there 20 years.
And we've come back to New Zealand during COVID.
So when Trump was elected the second time, I decided that
night to double down on on helping get women to the front
of the pack because the rhetoricthat men use at A at a high
level, and certainly politics isvery different to females.

(38:01):
The, you know, there's, there was Guate in the Philippines,
Bolsonaro in Brazil and Trump inthe States.
They did some studying during COVID and the language that they
used was able to fall under a category called warmongering.
It was very divisive. It was very polarising.
Whereas a lot of other country with women, there was a lot more

(38:24):
explanation, collaboration. Now I will say that pretty much
it looks like bar a couple, every government swung and then
the elections post COVID, nobodygot it right, right.
That was just an impossible situation for anyone, one in
leadership to get right for everybody on the planet.
But the rhetoric that is used bya lot of men in leadership is
just not helpful. Trump's language, no matter what

(38:45):
you think about his politics, some good, some bad, whatever
inside you fall on that. I just think that women lead
differently and we could do witha slightly more collaborative
approach, as you mentioned earlier, just how to work
together. And here's the interesting thing
I I teach a it's called a grace framework and women hit three of
the five letters and I do believe in men, one maybe 2.

(39:09):
And what I think is important inleadership, I think an AI, once
we get through AI, we go to AGI and then we get to super
intelligence. But give it 30-40 years.
If you think about it, humans could almost be the minorities
on the planet. And so in meetings which might
have, I don't know if they'll berobots sitting around a table or
we'll all be doing it online. But these traits that come

(39:29):
naturally to women around connection and curiosity and
empathy and gratitude, the men are going to need to upscale on
those because they won't be the smartest people in the room.
And men have a need to sort of prove themselves.
This sort of goes back to our reptile brains and just they
were the, you know, the providers.
So I think that women are in a good, good position to help men
bridge this. And it's going to be very, a

(39:52):
very interesting journey. So I want to make sure like at
the moment with AI, there's about 22% of people working in
like an AI are women. So it is big tech that will
drive the world forward, not governments, because the
government's kind of it, right? So it's these tech companies are
being run by men. So it's a really interesting
development. And the reason I also think we
need more women in it is just that we represent 50% of people

(40:14):
on the planet. So we need to have our
perspective heard. So that whilst the balance isn't
there, decisions are being made with us in place in mind.
Well, if. We're not there, we're not
considering it in the design, right.
So as far as being involved withAI as we're building, you know,
as it was very well done how they released for free ChatGPT

(40:37):
so that we could build their engine for them by putting all
our stuff in. And then the improvement is all
due to us because you know, I'vebeen involved in technology for
the last 40 years and I, I, I can see how it's grown and how,
you know, things got called clouds so that they became
mystical. And now we've got AI and

(40:58):
robotics and all of those things.
But really they've all been around for a long time and as
automation has improved over thedecades.
But if we if we're not included in consideration for design, if
women's bodies and and health thoughts behaviours aren't

(41:20):
considered, then we will have a skewed output because there's
nothing else it can do. It can't imagine what it doesn't
have as input. And and which is why we still
have, you know, things like mammograms designed the way they
are and, you know, as an example, you know, hard.
Corners. Yeah, yeah.

(41:41):
And. And things that are not designed
for people who have differing mobility issues and it's because
they haven't been included. So it's like we do have to
include all of our all of our minorities and majorities, but
weight them accordingly so that that we do have everybody
considered with because that's when we'll have super.

(42:06):
It won't be super. Yeah.
Well, I think you. Know like AI made a post that
you know, we you know, computersand and robots.
They won't you know, my fall or,you know, a break up for
somebody or a you know, being a boss that is, you know, a toxic
workplace environment. Those won't cease to exist.
A robot will never you could programme it to empathise as

(42:27):
though it had one of those experience, but it will never be
quite the human condition, right, with the you know, the
family we grew up in the school,you know, and all those Knox
hard life. So these soft skills crazy
important that we and you know, we can, there is a because it's
in our brains and we can't see it.
There's no instant gratification.
There's a lot of people that don't spend time reflecting on

(42:49):
this, right. But I do believe that our mental
health, and I'm talking about mental health, not mental
illness, will become a bigger part of the equation than our
physical health. Because I think that the next
step is for us to see them as one science working in harmony
as opposed to separately. And then, you know, because when
you, you know, you stub your toe, the pain is in your brain.
And interesting. I actually just created a graph

(43:11):
which shows that is that women have a lower threshold to where
we feel physical and psychological discomfort.
Men can go longer, but once we actually experience it, we can
sustain it longer. Men go men shorter.
So think about you have a bad employee and a male boss might
go, well, they're not that bad. It's like the worker would take
to replace them and let's just give them a bit longer.

(43:32):
And then when they realise they've got to go, we need to
free up their future. They're like, let's do this,
like boom, let's move on. Whereas, you know, women will
potentially ascertain the problem earlier and but also
when it comes to speaking up, you know, like we, we hit
sooner, we feel discomfort, but we'll endure it longer and we'll
keep our hands down. And so this is the compounding
that we as women need to particularly women coming back

(43:55):
into the workplace. Most of my clients tend to be
like 35 to 55 and extraordinary women who would make the best
employees because they're hard working, they're resilient,
they're adaptable, they're frugal.
They're not going to leave the next, you know, best thing.
So loyal. But, you know, being out of the
workforce, it's very easy to second guess your value, right.

(44:15):
And so that's working with thosewomen to help them.
Just I mirror back like how extraordinary they are.
Yeah. And that that's really
important. Well, I know, so I've, you know,
started being unwell with, with my current chronic problem four
years ago. But you know the bringing the

(44:40):
mental health and the physical health elements.
So there is a confusion between what is diagnosable as mental
health issues versus physical health issues because they can
have the same symptoms, right? So your mental health can be
causing your autonomic nervous system to function in a certain
way, and your dysregulated autonomic nervous system can

(45:03):
cause yourself to feel a certainway.
So it's like that chicken and egg thing, yes.
And. With the amount of of stress
that we're constantly in the fight and flight that we are
constantly in the risk of us notproperly looking at the mental
and physical health aspects and doing something about it.

(45:26):
And also with the expectation ofus working to where 67 or 70 or
whatever, you know, whatever number they work out
economically, we can still do until it costs the government
more to look after us than they get.
You know, it's, it's like, well,you know, we've really got to

(45:47):
look at in our 20s and our 30s and well before our 50s and 60s,
you know, that what is happeningwith our autonomic nervous
system, what is happening with our immune systems, etc.
Because let me tell you, once your brain, you know, your body
shuts down like mine did. I had a mini stroke.
I developed epilepsy. I have so I have dysregulated

(46:10):
brain function and dysregulated autonomic system and autoimmune.
It means that I can't have any certainty about what I can do.
Did you? Have a good awareness around
your your mental health and yourphysical health being connected
prior to for your SO. Not.

(46:32):
I. So I thought I did, but I, but
it wasn't an embodied understanding.
So, and I just thought that I could think through it because I
didn't show any physical problems.
I didn't, I, I wasn't obese. I, I, that, you know, I didn't
have the textbook presentation, but but I did have childhood

(46:56):
trauma. I did have, you know, hardships
in my life and and I was a womanfighting for her space in a male
dominated corporate environment.So if we can fool women now, if

(47:19):
we can make that less of a battle, well, then there will be
less of a strain on on your health.
It's also really. Interesting, the language that
we use, and this is such a big topic, but I think about this a
bit, you know, when we talk about our mental health versus
our mental illness, and it's very easy to transpose those in

(47:40):
there. And I think it gets confusing if
this is not part of your everyday rhetoric.
But I think what's happening that's concerning me is that a
lot of people are identifying now as like an anxious person
or, you know, pick, pick something.
But let's talk about whereas so they're using psychological or,
you know, medical terms to identify this, that that's just

(48:02):
the way I am in the world as opposed to the ways those are
designed. It's like, well, I have that.
So OK, once you actually work that out, this is what you can
do about it. So you no longer so you manage
that or you may even like that will become a non issue if you
learn some skills. And it's become very mainstream
language. And it's like it's for me, it's
worrisome. Younger people particularly that

(48:23):
will just tell you and you know,the neuro diverse, you know,
diversity now that that is actually being talked about more
openly. I think that there is a real
upside to that because it helps people understand schools,
right, to help kids if they're dyslexic or they're, you know,
they've got autism or ADHD. Like I think it needs to become
more readily able to be tested and diagnosed.

(48:46):
So that and I know it's a spectrum.
So it's very difficult, but I also think that we don't need to
limit ourselves based on those, right?
We, we learn some adapting and if it's more severe, yes, and or
significant, then for sure. But that's a That's a slippery
slope that worries me, especially for.
Identifying right, because, because in in the last 10 years

(49:13):
or you know, 20 years, we do usethe word identify as right.
So my pronouns are and, and I and I identify as well.
You know, when we start adding feeling words or or, you know,
behavioural words to that I am and we keep telling ourselves

(49:35):
it, then then we believe it. And so I also think.
Like we know where we lived in the states, they did a, it
became a, the primary school became a, a green distinguished
school in California because they taught the kids about
recycling. So when they brought their
lunch, they encouraged parents to put, you know, snacks into
little recyclable, you know, containers as opposed to, you

(49:57):
know, like you can go to the store now and you could buy.
I remember seeing these boxes with five little things of chips
and I'm like, Oh, that's perfect.
I'm just throw a bag of this bagof chips and a whole bag of
biscuits. And, and what they said like,
you know, they, they went basically.
So the kids would finish their lunch and then they'd go up to
the containers and they'd scrapetheir, you know, stuff that
would go into the compost and anything that was recyclable
when in here. And I can't remember what the

(50:18):
third one was, but they went from 32 bags of rubbish every
day down to 2. And so kids then learn to become
really good at recycling and looking after the planet.
So in the same way that we really need to educate them.
And I don't know what you have in Australia in the way of what
they're educating kids with language so that they can talk
about connection and empathy andrespect and gratitude and risk

(50:40):
and being brave and fearless andspeaking up.
And but that's where we need to start.
Absolutely, as you were. Saying that I was just thinking,
yes, I want a recycling of the day, right?
So let us have a look and let's go.
OK, so you know, how did I grow?What can I scrape off into the,

(51:02):
the recycling bin of my languageand, and those feeling and
learning, you know that, you know, feelings only have to last
a little bit of time. It's, you know, when we when it
lasts, you know, longer than a minute or 16 seconds, depending
on who you'd listen to. It is a story now it is no

(51:22):
longer a feeling. And so, you know, if we were
able to teach our little ones, absolutely.
About. You know, these wonderful things
which were differently managed back in, you know, our childhood
generations before it because there were different inputs,
different situations. But yeah, I think I think for

(51:43):
for our little ones to become great leaders of themselves in
their families, in their communities and then in in
whatever employment is in the future, you know, if they've got
that ability to self manning andand be taught that and it to be
to be first nature. I was talking to someone the

(52:04):
other day and she was saying that we often say things as
second nature. And then she said, but but, but
what was before that second nature?
What was our first nature? That's like, yeah, I like that.
Let us go back. So, So I, I think that we've
gone through many of the questions I was going to ask,
which is wonderful because I cansee where you, you looked at the

(52:30):
friction that existed and you decided what you were going to
do about it. You were not willing to sit back
and go, what are they going to do about it?
It's what can I do about it? How can I learn more about this?
And, and that you, you know from, from way back, you know,
before you fell in the gorge andyou had that thought.

(52:51):
I've just very curious about howthe awareness you had of the
other accident that had occurredbefore you had your accident.
And you know how strong the, howeasily the uncertainty comes in
to our thinking. And then sometimes things don't
go to plan. And so looking, looking at, you

(53:13):
know, where you were aware that,but there'd recently been an
accident. So you were being extra cautious
and it still happened. And then you were and you took
control of your fear and were being extra focused on resolving
that. And then another accident
occurred. But what I see even more than
that is your decision to be hereand make a difference.

(53:35):
And you are. And that is through, through
obviously your boys, through your passion, through through
your clients and the business and, and all of the people whose
lives you've touched. There will be people from
listening to this podcast who will get a glimmer.

(53:55):
They will see something from ourconversation that will really
connect them to Vicki Tyler and to the blessing that we have had
that you survived not only long enough for your mum to arrive to
see you in the hospital, but forgenerations of people to meet
and know you and I. I I just and so humbled to have

(54:20):
had this conversation today. So let us go into the lightning
round of rapid reflection. So what's the belief you had to
break in order to heal? Sorry, I know, you said.
Rapid, you know, I think that the feel of fear and do it
anyway. I just circle back to that so
often. It plays.
To all of us it is. Susan Jeffers.
Yes, fantastic book, I bought it.

(54:41):
Again, recently, the original, because I wanted to see why it
had such an impact on me in my early 20s.
Recommend it to anybody. It's a simple book, very like it
just. It makes such good sense.
It's like, yeah, go out there, go get it.
Go get life. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, just and just have it go. Even more relevant now with
social media, Yes. Yes, yes, buy the book, not not

(55:05):
the Kindle by the book and then you can.
Scribble all over it. That's what I do to my books.
Exactly. Well, my my dogs decided that
they wanted to have a chew. So mine mine is very special.
I still have it the chewed version.
I have it too. Oh.
My God. Yeah, I love it.
Yeah, no one. Of my first when I started
studying human behaviour was oneof my first books.
Lovely. OK.

(55:26):
Next question what's one thing you now trust in yourself that
you didn't before where I immediately.
Go with that is that I will speak up for people when they're
not feeling brave enough to speak out for themselves yeah, I
encourage people to but otherwise I will have your back
if I see a wrong being done to somebody typically that way
they're being treated yeah. That feels like I'm there's

(55:51):
something driving me that I willI will do that yes I.
I'm a lioness. I I absolutely like this,
especially in the workplace. I would definitely stand up for
people who I thought were being overlooked, misunderstood or
treated badly. Treated badly.
Or spoken down to or treated with respect or overlooked.

(56:14):
I don't know if you've heard Richard Branson talk about this,
but he would take, you know, high management potential
employees out for a meal. What he really was watching was
how he they treat the staff, thewaiters and the Belfast boys and
things. Yeah, I love that.
Yes. Yes, he's a very interesting
man. OK, next question.

(56:35):
When was the last time you laughed at something that used
to make you cry? Oh, that's.
A really hard one actually. Gosh, I would say what comes to
mind there is that I don't take myself so seriously anymore and
I think being a mum of boys, human teenage, teenage boys,

(56:56):
that would have to fall somewhere in there, yes.
Well, as as my boys are in theirears and I'm, you know,
grandmother of two, yes, yes, itis a special gift to have boys.
OK, right. Last question.
What does leadership look like on the inside, not just the
outside speaking? Right to my heart there.

(57:16):
Well, that's kind of where it starts.
I mean, I think you mentioned something earlier that resonated
with me about leadership, even of ourselves.
So I think like, you know, I started in my early 20s.
It was like, you know, just standing solid on the ground,
your own 2 feet, just stacked inyour own body and feeling
comfortable in your own skin. And then you can show up

(57:36):
authentically, even if it's shy or vulnerable, which is some of
the best traits of leaders as well.
As much as that for years, it took me a long time to work that
out. Makes you more relatable, more
human, but just being comfortable in your own skin and
that requires some work. I do self hypnosis and
meditation every morning now like I have been for the last,
committed to getting up at 5:00 AM and doing this.

(57:58):
So I'm about month 3 because mine was very higgledy piggledy
before that. And that the inner work takes
work. And because we don't see the
immediate like, you know, bicep,but it's like training a bicep.
It's the same thing, but being comfortable in our own skin so
that we treat each other, treat each other well.
Yes, yes. Absolutely.
Well, my coaching brand was building your mindset muscle and

(58:21):
it is very much about one seriesof thoughts at a time, yes.
And the compounding? And that self nurturing and self
loving. OK, So thanks listeners for
today. Vicky's story is a reminder that
sometimes we need to leap into fear, into growth, into the

(58:44):
unknown, to reclaim what was lost in a fall.
From being airlifted to safety to free falling by choice, from
breaking bones to breaking bias,Vicki shows us that courage
doesn't always roar. Sometimes it stumbles,
recalibrates, and jumps anyway. If this episode has stirred

(59:05):
something in you, a fear to face, a pattern to break, a
curiosity to follow, let it. That stirring might just be the
invitation to become someone braver.
Vicki, thank you for your wisdom, your grit in your story.
And to all of you listening, stay curious, stay kind, and

(59:26):
keep going because life may get suddenly different, but that
does not mean it's over. It might just be beginning.
Thank you, Vicky. Thank you.
Thank. You for having me?
This has been suddenly different.
I'm Leanne Sharland, and I'm so grateful you shared your time

(59:47):
with me. If you felt a spark, a tear, or
a moment of recognition, I hope you'll pass that gift along by
sharing this show. Take a deep breath, trust your
path, and I'll meet you back here soon.
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