July 22, 2025 • 26 mins
Summary
In this episode of the Sustainability Transformations podcast, Marissa Hankinson shares her journey of navigating redundancy in her 50s and how it led her to redefine success and purpose. She discusses the importance of self-care, the impact of ageism in the job market, and the necessity of personal development in a rapidly changing work environment. Marissa emphasizes the significance of aligning personal values with career choices and offers valuable advice for those facing redundancy or considering a career transition.
Speaker Bio
Marissa Hankinson, a seasoned C-suite executive and entrepreneur with a passion for driving growth and innovation. With experience leading businesses from the top, I've gained valuable insights into what drives success. As host of The Glass Ceiling Video Podcast, I get to dig into the nitty-gritty of business success and challenges.Contact:
www.wavebreakerproducitons.com
www.linkedin.com/in/marissahankinson
Takeaways
Redundancy can be a catalyst for positive change.
Self-care is crucial after experiencing career upheaval.
Career counseling can provide valuable insights into personal fulfillment.
Ageism can impact job applications and confidence.
Investing in personal development is essential for career growth.
AI will not replace jobs; those who adapt to AI will thrive.
Everyone has transferable skills that can be utilized in new roles.
Finding clarity in uncertainty requires introspection and self-assessment.
Values alignment is key to finding purpose in work.
Surrounding yourself with supportive networks is vital during transitions.
Chapters
00:00 Navigating Redundancy and Reinvention
09:11 Embracing Change and Personal Development
18:08 Finding Purpose and Authenticity
26:43 Building Connections and Seeking Support
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
If your purpose isn't right within your in your career, you
can actually have that externally.
It could be, you know, volunteering or doing something.
I think values have to be aligned.
And if values are not aligned, then there is something that's
going to be very, very disjointed.
I mean, the emotional weight that that will put on you with
your value being aligned is going to be very, very hard for
(00:23):
you in your career. So I do think values aligned, if
you can get values aligned and the company also helps with the
purpose of what you want to achieve, then you are on a
winning streak. But I do think the values align
has to be 100% if you can find an organization, because
sometimes that's been really honest.
(00:43):
Life happens and you can't get the most.
And if you can find that elsewhere, then I think you
should pursue. Welcome to Sustainability
Transformations podcast where wediscuss bold ideas to drive
positive change for people, community and business.
(01:06):
And I'm so pleased today's guestis resilient, reinvented and
empowering. Marisa Arkinson is AC Suite
executive, Ted entrepreneur and host of the Glass Ceiling
podcast. After navigating redundancy in
her 50s, she now helps others redefine success and purpose
(01:27):
through bold career transformation.
And the key goal of our discussion is looking at
redundancy, reinvention and reclaiming leadership identity
and how to create purpose drivenbacked after starting over.
Thank you so much for joining Marissa.
Your story is a master class in navigating career upheaval with
(01:47):
purpose. What was the moment everything
changed for you after your redundancy I.
Think I realized that the redundancy actually did me a
favour. Interestingly enough, I was on a
career, yeah, was the speech. But if I look back on the amount
of time I was actually working with probably between 70 to 75
(02:11):
hours a week without necessarilyme realizing that thing having
access to communication all the time.
I was both in the building construction industry.
So even though my crystal flowers would be, you know, 830
till five, I knew I had a practices on site from 6:00 AM.
So I was my phone was going from6:00 AM right the way through
(02:35):
to, you know, think maybe considering that they couldn't
arrive on site the day, the day after and things like that.
So I was constantly attached to my phone and that involved work
and was not switching off to go from that level of working.
And I had a great team underneath me, don't get me
wrong, but that level of workingcould be made redundant.
And sitting going, what do I do with my time was a little bit of
(03:00):
a shock to the system. Not going to lie.
I realized that I'd probably been put in my health and some
things self-care on hold becauseI just didn't have the time for
it. So all of a sudden being thrown
into that redundancy was, yes, it was a shot.
Also, hang on a second. I am actually in my 50s and
(03:25):
self-care. I can't keep going the way I am
because that was probably a hugecatalyst.
So I actually think it's do me afavour because I feel, you know,
I'm doing time for exercise, I'mtaking self-care and I'm still a
little bit addicted to the hoursworking.
I'm not going to lie, I like to keep myself very busy, but I
(03:47):
feel like I've got a lot more imbalance now.
That's great. It's always a good opportunity
to hear the story, but can you tell it what was going on on
your mind in the days soon afterlosing the executive role?
I decided that I would give myself a week to being stung and
(04:08):
grief. And people say when everybody
else usually takes three to six months, Marissa, you, you know,
you've got financial compensation for redundancy.
You should speak your time and thing.
And I realized that that's not me as a person.
So for a week I don't laugh whenI say this, for a week I indulge
in watching that female empowering movies and went from
(04:29):
boards with lots and lots of friends for a chat and caught up
with people. That means something to me.
But I just didn't have enormous time.
My thing is, sit on the sofa andindulge in your own broken
itches and you're Legally Blondeand all those kind of feel good
films that you know what, you can overcome some adversity.
(04:50):
Until you know you have to be strong, you might not know how
strong you are. So it's an interesting journey
for everyone to discover that. So thanks for sharing that.
I went to actually see a career counsellor for a session and at
the start of the session he was like, what do you love about
your job that I previously had? No like, oh, I love seeing the
(05:12):
transformation of young people. You know, they come in as like a
17 year old, 18 year old apprentice and they leave us at
22 and they've got a career and a train and a profession that's
going to sustain them for their life.
That's really, really a good buzz for me.
I love it. And then we dissect to build
that. And that's what I said when I
started my career, obviously. But at the end, of course, like,
(05:33):
no, I hate it. I hate, I love that little bit.
But that look, it was only 1% ofwhat I did, but I hated over
compliance and the governance and the safety and all these
things. So I realized that wasn't what I
was meant to be doing. So it was a really interesting
task. So I definitely think sometimes
going to see a career counsellorand something through where you
(05:55):
think you want to be may not be waiting.
Always good to have a different perspective.
Previous counselling sessions orcoaching, that is interesting
hearing myself back things that it's actually coming from my
mind or what I'm thinking about,you know, I can't even reflect
and think. It's always good speaking things
out from what you're actually thinking.
(06:15):
If through your experience played a role in the decision
and how did that affect your confidence I.
Think. It's actually think it was time.
Interestingly enough, I think itwas time for me to leave the
role. So it did push me into leaving
that role. I think that the organization I
was working for wanted to achieve some things.
(06:36):
And I've been in that in that organization for about 10 years.
And I think that I don't necessarily think we realized it
sometimes, but think I was a barrier to their necks wrote
without necessarily realizing. I think since I left, I think
really, really doing that inner work on yourself, I've realized
(06:58):
that maybe I was the barrier andit was the right decision, the
organization for me. Actually, what I was concerned
about was if you think there is an element of ageism when you
are applying for a role, I know that's not really allowed as
such. But for me, you know, one of my
(07:18):
passions is marketing and what Ido.
But I felt that there was an element of in my face and I
wouldn't understand some of the newer technologies or the new
social media trends and things where I felt I was very much a
best of all that. And even though C Sweens had a
team that did the implementationfor me, I think my age in some
(07:42):
response actually went against. I definitely think there was
this option. So it's.
Such a shame with how some of these experience come about.
Now, perhaps before we explore further, there has been a lot of
layoffs from tech companies. And with the AI coming in, just
(08:05):
to highlight how important listeners may benefit from your
insight, where there is a lot oftransformation in the job market
going on. Where five years ago where it
was guaranteed if you were a programmer, you went to
university and you came out, it was guaranteed or not
guaranteed, but you have a good chance.
(08:25):
But now there's been lots and lots of layoff.
And if the hype with AI is goingto be true, where there's going
to be between estimates show between 15 to $20 trillion of
net income, which is means with that increase, there's going to
be some unfortunate job losses. And so I'm highlighting that
going forward, there might be some very difficult times where
(08:49):
people can learn from how to maybe retrain or find new skills
and so on. So, having shared that key
context, how did your identity shift as you went from a CSU
title into starting all over again?
On my side of it, I think it's really, really important that it
does not matter where you are inyour actual career.
(09:11):
I think that it is always very, very important to always invest
in yourself and your personal development.
So even when I was recruiting the people, I would always ask
them, you know, what are you doing to improve yourself?
What is your, you know, what have you done to develop
yourself in the last three, 612 months?
Because that really when I even when I was in the recruiting
(09:33):
process, that would really they show me who they were as a
person, who they valued themselves as a person and did
were they a self slaughter? You know, there was a lot of
things that that showed me in that interview question that
made me see if they were someonethat was one was good for my
team, but also could they bring something to my organization.
(09:54):
So I've always done and I think,you know, you just hope that
someone be a programmer, etcetera.
You have to develop yourself or yourself, not because the
organization sends you on a course because they're the
things that are going to make you stand out in the job market.
So yes, we talk about AI replacing jobs.
I always think that it's not necessarily AI that's going
(10:16):
through place your job. And then I'm going to quote a
good friend of my head would be his quote is it's going to be
somebody who knows how to work with AI effectively and
efficiently if it's gonna take your job, not the other way
down. People keep blaming AI and it's
not gonna be a like for like. It's not gonna be your program.
It's gonna be replaced by an AI during the programming.
(10:38):
It's going to be somebody else who knows how to utilize AI, can
increase the productivity, efficiency, etcetera, for better
output, who's going to replace your job.
So you have to make the choice of whether you're going to
embrace it and learn it and workwith it, or are you going to
stay complacent and blame AI. I think you have to take a
little bit of ownership for yourself.
(10:59):
I. Think some people get
comfortable in their jobs and those people who are comfortable
in their jobs are the ones that may be at risk of not upgrading
because the alarm bells have been rung now way before the
fire is about to start. So, you know, starting those
skills. There is lots of affordable
(11:21):
courses online. A lot of these companies are
providing free courses or when available courses.
And yeah, so the earlier individual stick personal
responsibility because yes, ideally we want the companies
who would benefit from a providetraining as much as possible.
Yeah, that individual responsibility of upgrading so
(11:43):
that you can stand out from the OK.
So how do you discover by yourself during that in between
phase of not knowing what's next?
Or in other words, how do you gain that clarity in the midst
of so much uncertainty? There's one good thing and it's
(12:04):
I'm very humble in this when you're made sometimes.
I was made redundant in my 50s. And what I will say is that I
was very fortunate in that, thatmy financial position that I was
in was very comfortable, but I didn't necessarily have some of
the other pressures or the uncertainties.
I took it and received it to my confidence and realized that I
(12:29):
didn't necessarily want to work in the industry, which was
significant uncertainty. Realized then that this sounds
so bad, you know, is that I was over managing people because
like, seriously, I know that you're in the UK when we're here
in Australia, but last the last 12 months, last 18 months here
(12:50):
in Australia, we've had the mostwork changes and it is so hard
to keep up to date with them. So manage and it was just
becoming a huge burden. So all that uncertainty, I was
like, I don't know, I'm going todo like literally I sat there
and I'm like, I don't know what I want to do.
I don't know, I'm 52. Do I want to learn a new
(13:12):
industry? 100% believe that everybody has
transferable skills that can be acknowledged and can be adapted.
I'm very much a believer of that.
I was just I didn't know where Iwas.
And that was where initially, and you mentioned the glass
ceiling. I didn't get to the top role,
the CEO role. I am a female in the I was a
(13:35):
female in the male dominated industry.
Well, I didn't hit that job. And so that's where the glass
ceiling podcast came from because it was the moment of
uncertainty for me. And I didn't know what I was
going to do. And I thought, you know what?
I'm going to, I'm going to learnfrom other people.
Who have done more than me. So let me stop this.
(13:55):
And it wasn't, and it was for noother reason.
It was for me to have a learningexercise to see where I wanted
to go. And that was literally the first
season of the glass ceiling. It was getting people in who
were female who'd broken that glass ceiling huge, achieved
something that I managed to achieve, found what was that
going to teach me? That's literally where it came
(14:16):
from. So there was a lot of
uncertainty during that time. However, organically, I founded
a media production company. So that was organically helped
me find what I needed to find, but I wasn't actively looking
for it. Well.
That's so good where you're ableto find that key opportunity.
(14:36):
So what inspired you to launch it?
I know you discovered it, but what really inspired you to
launch it and what fears did youhave stepping into the unknown
so. I've been involved in podcasting
before in my previous role. So during obviously COVID, we
don't make that word. Well, it's still around and it's
still here. We've had to do things
(15:00):
differently. So the organization I was
involved in had a lot of partnerships with very an event
driven into our customer basics.And when COVID hits, people were
like, well, events aren't running and corporate
partnership with potentially going to retract their money
they gave us as an organization.So we really had to think when
(15:21):
we had to huge re education. So partners that it wasn't just
an event, it was a 12 month campaign.
They talked to our customer baseon a regular basis.
There's other ways and we actually did podcasting as a way
to replace events, but still have a strong communication
through our customer base, our audience.
So that helped with that. So I didn't have experience in
(15:43):
it, but the launching of it as ahost and tapping people on my
network on the shoulder to ask them to be guests when I wasn't
in that space link position, I didn't know whether they would
be open to that. I did feel that a lot of my
relationships and network were attached to my role.
(16:05):
What I've realized is actually very much to me, my investments
and those relationships that aresustained.
And so I did have a little bit of a identity crisis, I'm not
going to lie. And I was very, very
uncomfortable. But I actually found that if I
embrace that vulnerability and was authentic, I got where what
(16:27):
I needed. I get really.
And what I had realized and one of my biggest learnings over the
last probably 12 to 18 months was I was in a male dominated
area at the C-Suite extent, right, Harry?
I've dropped that now, don't feel comfortable in dropping
(16:47):
this mass and I've realized thatI'm achieving more by by sharing
vulnerability and being a littlebit more of my authentic and
looking people. Yeah, that's very deep 1.
So if I can explore on the mask,what do you think can what do
you think people have to be mindful of to not pick that
(17:10):
mask? Pick the mask of survival or
mask of trying to be like the environment?
What are some of the tips or advice would you give?
Because sometimes it's a mask where you just pick it up all of
a sudden. But I've discovered personally,
some of the mask, you pick it over time and you don't even
(17:31):
realize it. So I'm curious to know how
people or what advice you know you would give so people can be
comfortable with who you know, who they are.
Yeah. It's really interesting and I
think I got the corporate mask was definitely around protection
for me. You know, I, I had to sometimes
(17:55):
with some of the decision or, you know, if you're dismissing
staff or, you know, there are issues around, you know, I'd say
definitely it's around HR that sometimes you have to put a
significant boundary in place ifyou want to protect you and your
organization. And so even though you may be
feeling very, very differently emotionally about that situation
(18:16):
that you may be dealing with, it's very hard.
You can't show that sometimes. You know, you try to have
empathy, but at the end of the day, the decision is going to be
made and you've got to stick with it.
So I think it does. I 100% agree with you.
It does build up over time. But I think when, and this
sounds really weird and I don't want to say it's when will
(18:38):
because I'm not a person. If something, if you've made a
decision and something is not sitting with you or when you're
alone at night and you've dealt with, and I'm talking really
around people dealing with people and something is not
sitting right with viewing your good, Obviously you have to
(18:58):
protect yourself. But I found that has started to
go back to people if I felt thathad been too harsh with them or
they may have just caught me at that wrong time and and I may
have been dismissive, etcetera, is to actually acknowledge that
and go back to them and say, youknow, and make time and
apologize. But I didn't do that enough.
(19:20):
And upon reflection, I should have done so.
I think that you're the only person that can acknowledge that
maths and listen to your guts. And if you can make a
correction, and it's very hard to make a correction because it
could mean that you're you're actually owning up to an error.
Purpose is a big word within organizations.
(19:43):
Some some experts or people haveshared that some of the causes
of burnout. If people don't have purpose or
if their purpose doesn't align with the company's purpose, it
can have some fundamental challenges.
So I'm curious to know what doespurpose mean to you now compared
to your years in the corporate leadership I.
Think you've got to people say it's purpose and I, I agree.
(20:07):
And sometimes within my career and I've had my purpose
somewhere else. And I know that sounds a bit
odd, but for me having purpose, if your purpose isn't right
within your in your career, you can actually have that
externally. It could be, you know,
volunteering or doing something.I think values have to be
(20:28):
aligned. And if values are not aligned,
then there is something that's going to be very, very
disjointed. I mean, the emotional weight
that that will put on you with your value of being aligned is
going to be very, very hard for you in your career.
So I do think values aligned, ifyou can get values aligned and
the company also helps with the purpose or what you want to
(20:50):
achieve, then you are on a winning streak.
But I do think the values align has to be 100% and if you can
find an organization, because sometimes that's been really
honest, life happens and you can't get the most and if you
can find that elsewhere, then I think you should pursue.
So I've always been volunteeringbut the time of alignment is the
(21:12):
emotions, so no after. 13 years in Australia, do you feel like
you found your people or are they still cultural shaped you
are navigating around? Definitely have some athletes is
a really falling and when I camehere, I come from we have a
significant population in the UK.
When I came to Adelaide it is definitely not is it the six
(21:35):
degrees of separation, 7° of separation.
I can't think of what the word is.
That is not what it's like here in place as a late is 3° of
separation. Everybody will know everybody.
That's so great. It's a very, very strange
phenomenon, you know, and I comefrom the UK and here in Adelaide
it's very hard to get into some of those relationships.
(21:57):
And it works because there's this weird thing, Are you ready
that people ask people where they went to school, right.
Where you went to school determines so much.
In Adelaide, we're only the whole of SA, which is bigger
than the UK, is only 1.8 millionpeople.
It's bigger than the UK more so.So they have this thing and
(22:18):
there's a lot of private schoolshere and things like that.
So there's a lot of this alumni networks and I 100% go, you know
what, I'm not from Adelaide, I'mfrom the UKI do have a tribe of
hobbies or the UK because there is a synergy of and you know,
you've moved from a different country, you know, there's this
whole synergy of you've got here, you've had the struggles,
(22:40):
you applied for the there's all this instant bonding.
So yes, I do have a group of people who are from the UK,
people who have migrated to Australia.
You definitely, you can break that down.
So for me, I've got some phenomenal relationships and
I've definitely found my tribe and they're very different
(23:01):
tribes that I've got. It's, I definitely think it's
important not to think that one group of people can give you
everything. I don't think that's the case.
But I have got my roots and theygo to them for different
reasons. I'm very, very fortunate.
And when you come to a new country, don't say no to things
because they will stop asking. That's my tips.
(23:25):
Say yes and then work it out if it's right for you.
Otherwise, yeah. Be open minded, explore, try and
find out in your own way. What advice would you give to
someone right now facing redundancy or feeling past your
prime I. Would say don't necessarily look
at what you are not really doingassessment of the skills that
(23:47):
you think it's really important.It's very, very different
approach. I think sometimes it's really
easy to go, well, I've been in this role, this is my in my
career. It doesn't have to be like that
and to look internally what is going to make you happy or what
you not necessarily what societies expectation of you is,
(24:10):
you know, so I was the chief operating officer, so you would
think that a CEO would be my next career pathway.
And I looked internally, I went,that's not what I want.
So I think putting the expectation of what people
expect on your resume to the side and look at your skills and
your transfer and what you can do, especially at the age that
we're at is what you can do thatcan make a difference.
(24:33):
You know, if you're in the situation where finances are not
like the 100% driver for you, like as in a salary and really,
really look at what is going to be meaningful to you.
What's your final thoughts for listeners, whether they are
changing career or changing industry or, you know, moving
(24:55):
from the corporate world into entrepreneurship or trying
something new, I would say. That doing it alone is too hard
and I'm not necessarily going into partnership or
directorship. I'm very, very fortunate with
what I set up. I've got a great business
partner, but I think it's really, really important that
you have people around you now. We're really, really fortunate
(25:17):
here. We have a lot of government
schemes that help with mentoringand coaching and can give you
that guidance when you're starting on a path on your own.
But even if it's within your network, talking to people and
not necessarily they sound really bad, but not necessarily
friends and family. I'm talking about business
connections or people that you might admire because your
friends and family may not say the things that you really need
(25:40):
to hear. So somebody was getting that
other perspective is important. So look out for those grants.
Look out free mentoring or coaching.
Then really surround yourself because it can be really, really
isolating and lonely. But there is actually help out
there and there's a lot of help.And if you ask, you'd be
surprised A. Huge thank you to Marissa for
(26:04):
blessing us with your time but incredible insight.
If listeners like what we've discussed and want to find more
about your work, where can they find more about your work?
Marissa, I'm. Definitely on LinkedIn.
I absolutely love LinkedIn. It's my favorite.
I look connected with people. So you can find me Marissa
Hankinson. I'm very fortunate that my
(26:25):
profile is my name too, so none of those fancy numbers.
And then if you want to check out Wave Breaker Productions,
you can pop that into Google andyou can see the podcasts and
other things that we can produceas well and might give you a
little bit of inspiration on your journey, OK.
That's great. Thanks, Marissa.
No. Worries.
If your purpose isn't right within your in your career, you
can actually have that externally.
It could be, you know, volunteering or doing something.
I think values have to be aligned.
And if values are not aligned, then there is something that's
going to be very, very disjointed.
I mean, the emotional weight that that will put on you with
your value being aligned is going to be very, very hard for
(00:23):
you in your career. So I do think values aligned, if
you can get values aligned and the company also helps with the
purpose of what you want to achieve, then you are on a
winning streak. But I do think the values align
has to be 100% if you can find an organization, because
sometimes that's been really honest.
(00:43):
Life happens and you can't get the most.
And if you can find that elsewhere, then I think you
should pursue. Welcome to Sustainability
Transformations podcast where wediscuss bold ideas to drive
positive change for people, community and business.
(01:06):
And I'm so pleased today's guestis resilient, reinvented and
empowering. Marisa Arkinson is AC Suite
executive, Ted entrepreneur and host of the Glass Ceiling
podcast. After navigating redundancy in
her 50s, she now helps others redefine success and purpose
(01:27):
through bold career transformation.
And the key goal of our discussion is looking at
redundancy, reinvention and reclaiming leadership identity
and how to create purpose drivenbacked after starting over.
Thank you so much for joining Marissa.
Your story is a master class in navigating career upheaval with
(01:47):
purpose. What was the moment everything
changed for you after your redundancy I.
Think I realized that the redundancy actually did me a
favour. Interestingly enough, I was on a
career, yeah, was the speech. But if I look back on the amount
of time I was actually working with probably between 70 to 75
(02:11):
hours a week without necessarilyme realizing that thing having
access to communication all the time.
I was both in the building construction industry.
So even though my crystal flowers would be, you know, 830
till five, I knew I had a practices on site from 6:00 AM.
So I was my phone was going from6:00 AM right the way through
(02:35):
to, you know, think maybe considering that they couldn't
arrive on site the day, the day after and things like that.
So I was constantly attached to my phone and that involved work
and was not switching off to go from that level of working.
And I had a great team underneath me, don't get me
wrong, but that level of workingcould be made redundant.
And sitting going, what do I do with my time was a little bit of
(03:00):
a shock to the system. Not going to lie.
I realized that I'd probably been put in my health and some
things self-care on hold becauseI just didn't have the time for
it. So all of a sudden being thrown
into that redundancy was, yes, it was a shot.
Also, hang on a second. I am actually in my 50s and
(03:25):
self-care. I can't keep going the way I am
because that was probably a hugecatalyst.
So I actually think it's do me afavour because I feel, you know,
I'm doing time for exercise, I'mtaking self-care and I'm still a
little bit addicted to the hoursworking.
I'm not going to lie, I like to keep myself very busy, but I
(03:47):
feel like I've got a lot more imbalance now.
That's great. It's always a good opportunity
to hear the story, but can you tell it what was going on on
your mind in the days soon afterlosing the executive role?
I decided that I would give myself a week to being stung and
(04:08):
grief. And people say when everybody
else usually takes three to six months, Marissa, you, you know,
you've got financial compensation for redundancy.
You should speak your time and thing.
And I realized that that's not me as a person.
So for a week I don't laugh whenI say this, for a week I indulge
in watching that female empowering movies and went from
(04:29):
boards with lots and lots of friends for a chat and caught up
with people. That means something to me.
But I just didn't have enormous time.
My thing is, sit on the sofa andindulge in your own broken
itches and you're Legally Blondeand all those kind of feel good
films that you know what, you can overcome some adversity.
(04:50):
Until you know you have to be strong, you might not know how
strong you are. So it's an interesting journey
for everyone to discover that. So thanks for sharing that.
I went to actually see a career counsellor for a session and at
the start of the session he was like, what do you love about
your job that I previously had? No like, oh, I love seeing the
(05:12):
transformation of young people. You know, they come in as like a
17 year old, 18 year old apprentice and they leave us at
22 and they've got a career and a train and a profession that's
going to sustain them for their life.
That's really, really a good buzz for me.
I love it. And then we dissect to build
that. And that's what I said when I
started my career, obviously. But at the end, of course, like,
(05:33):
no, I hate it. I hate, I love that little bit.
But that look, it was only 1% ofwhat I did, but I hated over
compliance and the governance and the safety and all these
things. So I realized that wasn't what I
was meant to be doing. So it was a really interesting
task. So I definitely think sometimes
going to see a career counsellorand something through where you
(05:55):
think you want to be may not be waiting.
Always good to have a different perspective.
Previous counselling sessions orcoaching, that is interesting
hearing myself back things that it's actually coming from my
mind or what I'm thinking about,you know, I can't even reflect
and think. It's always good speaking things
out from what you're actually thinking.
(06:15):
If through your experience played a role in the decision
and how did that affect your confidence I.
Think. It's actually think it was time.
Interestingly enough, I think itwas time for me to leave the
role. So it did push me into leaving
that role. I think that the organization I
was working for wanted to achieve some things.
(06:36):
And I've been in that in that organization for about 10 years.
And I think that I don't necessarily think we realized it
sometimes, but think I was a barrier to their necks wrote
without necessarily realizing. I think since I left, I think
really, really doing that inner work on yourself, I've realized
(06:58):
that maybe I was the barrier andit was the right decision, the
organization for me. Actually, what I was concerned
about was if you think there is an element of ageism when you
are applying for a role, I know that's not really allowed as
such. But for me, you know, one of my
(07:18):
passions is marketing and what Ido.
But I felt that there was an element of in my face and I
wouldn't understand some of the newer technologies or the new
social media trends and things where I felt I was very much a
best of all that. And even though C Sweens had a
team that did the implementationfor me, I think my age in some
(07:42):
response actually went against. I definitely think there was
this option. So it's.
Such a shame with how some of these experience come about.
Now, perhaps before we explore further, there has been a lot of
layoffs from tech companies. And with the AI coming in, just
(08:05):
to highlight how important listeners may benefit from your
insight, where there is a lot oftransformation in the job market
going on. Where five years ago where it
was guaranteed if you were a programmer, you went to
university and you came out, it was guaranteed or not
guaranteed, but you have a good chance.
(08:25):
But now there's been lots and lots of layoff.
And if the hype with AI is goingto be true, where there's going
to be between estimates show between 15 to $20 trillion of
net income, which is means with that increase, there's going to
be some unfortunate job losses. And so I'm highlighting that
going forward, there might be some very difficult times where
(08:49):
people can learn from how to maybe retrain or find new skills
and so on. So, having shared that key
context, how did your identity shift as you went from a CSU
title into starting all over again?
On my side of it, I think it's really, really important that it
does not matter where you are inyour actual career.
(09:11):
I think that it is always very, very important to always invest
in yourself and your personal development.
So even when I was recruiting the people, I would always ask
them, you know, what are you doing to improve yourself?
What is your, you know, what have you done to develop
yourself in the last three, 612 months?
Because that really when I even when I was in the recruiting
(09:33):
process, that would really they show me who they were as a
person, who they valued themselves as a person and did
were they a self slaughter? You know, there was a lot of
things that that showed me in that interview question that
made me see if they were someonethat was one was good for my
team, but also could they bring something to my organization.
(09:54):
So I've always done and I think,you know, you just hope that
someone be a programmer, etcetera.
You have to develop yourself or yourself, not because the
organization sends you on a course because they're the
things that are going to make you stand out in the job market.
So yes, we talk about AI replacing jobs.
I always think that it's not necessarily AI that's going
(10:16):
through place your job. And then I'm going to quote a
good friend of my head would be his quote is it's going to be
somebody who knows how to work with AI effectively and
efficiently if it's gonna take your job, not the other way
down. People keep blaming AI and it's
not gonna be a like for like. It's not gonna be your program.
It's gonna be replaced by an AI during the programming.
(10:38):
It's going to be somebody else who knows how to utilize AI, can
increase the productivity, efficiency, etcetera, for better
output, who's going to replace your job.
So you have to make the choice of whether you're going to
embrace it and learn it and workwith it, or are you going to
stay complacent and blame AI. I think you have to take a
little bit of ownership for yourself.
(10:59):
I. Think some people get
comfortable in their jobs and those people who are comfortable
in their jobs are the ones that may be at risk of not upgrading
because the alarm bells have been rung now way before the
fire is about to start. So, you know, starting those
skills. There is lots of affordable
(11:21):
courses online. A lot of these companies are
providing free courses or when available courses.
And yeah, so the earlier individual stick personal
responsibility because yes, ideally we want the companies
who would benefit from a providetraining as much as possible.
Yeah, that individual responsibility of upgrading so
(11:43):
that you can stand out from the OK.
So how do you discover by yourself during that in between
phase of not knowing what's next?
Or in other words, how do you gain that clarity in the midst
of so much uncertainty? There's one good thing and it's
(12:04):
I'm very humble in this when you're made sometimes.
I was made redundant in my 50s. And what I will say is that I
was very fortunate in that, thatmy financial position that I was
in was very comfortable, but I didn't necessarily have some of
the other pressures or the uncertainties.
I took it and received it to my confidence and realized that I
(12:29):
didn't necessarily want to work in the industry, which was
significant uncertainty. Realized then that this sounds
so bad, you know, is that I was over managing people because
like, seriously, I know that you're in the UK when we're here
in Australia, but last the last 12 months, last 18 months here
(12:50):
in Australia, we've had the mostwork changes and it is so hard
to keep up to date with them. So manage and it was just
becoming a huge burden. So all that uncertainty, I was
like, I don't know, I'm going todo like literally I sat there
and I'm like, I don't know what I want to do.
I don't know, I'm 52. Do I want to learn a new
(13:12):
industry? 100% believe that everybody has
transferable skills that can be acknowledged and can be adapted.
I'm very much a believer of that.
I was just I didn't know where Iwas.
And that was where initially, and you mentioned the glass
ceiling. I didn't get to the top role,
the CEO role. I am a female in the I was a
(13:35):
female in the male dominated industry.
Well, I didn't hit that job. And so that's where the glass
ceiling podcast came from because it was the moment of
uncertainty for me. And I didn't know what I was
going to do. And I thought, you know what?
I'm going to, I'm going to learnfrom other people.
Who have done more than me. So let me stop this.
(13:55):
And it wasn't, and it was for noother reason.
It was for me to have a learningexercise to see where I wanted
to go. And that was literally the first
season of the glass ceiling. It was getting people in who
were female who'd broken that glass ceiling huge, achieved
something that I managed to achieve, found what was that
going to teach me? That's literally where it came
(14:16):
from. So there was a lot of
uncertainty during that time. However, organically, I founded
a media production company. So that was organically helped
me find what I needed to find, but I wasn't actively looking
for it. Well.
That's so good where you're ableto find that key opportunity.
(14:36):
So what inspired you to launch it?
I know you discovered it, but what really inspired you to
launch it and what fears did youhave stepping into the unknown
so. I've been involved in podcasting
before in my previous role. So during obviously COVID, we
don't make that word. Well, it's still around and it's
still here. We've had to do things
(15:00):
differently. So the organization I was
involved in had a lot of partnerships with very an event
driven into our customer basics.And when COVID hits, people were
like, well, events aren't running and corporate
partnership with potentially going to retract their money
they gave us as an organization.So we really had to think when
(15:21):
we had to huge re education. So partners that it wasn't just
an event, it was a 12 month campaign.
They talked to our customer baseon a regular basis.
There's other ways and we actually did podcasting as a way
to replace events, but still have a strong communication
through our customer base, our audience.
So that helped with that. So I didn't have experience in
(15:43):
it, but the launching of it as ahost and tapping people on my
network on the shoulder to ask them to be guests when I wasn't
in that space link position, I didn't know whether they would
be open to that. I did feel that a lot of my
relationships and network were attached to my role.
(16:05):
What I've realized is actually very much to me, my investments
and those relationships that aresustained.
And so I did have a little bit of a identity crisis, I'm not
going to lie. And I was very, very
uncomfortable. But I actually found that if I
embrace that vulnerability and was authentic, I got where what
(16:27):
I needed. I get really.
And what I had realized and one of my biggest learnings over the
last probably 12 to 18 months was I was in a male dominated
area at the C-Suite extent, right, Harry?
I've dropped that now, don't feel comfortable in dropping
(16:47):
this mass and I've realized thatI'm achieving more by by sharing
vulnerability and being a littlebit more of my authentic and
looking people. Yeah, that's very deep 1.
So if I can explore on the mask,what do you think can what do
you think people have to be mindful of to not pick that
(17:10):
mask? Pick the mask of survival or
mask of trying to be like the environment?
What are some of the tips or advice would you give?
Because sometimes it's a mask where you just pick it up all of
a sudden. But I've discovered personally,
some of the mask, you pick it over time and you don't even
(17:31):
realize it. So I'm curious to know how
people or what advice you know you would give so people can be
comfortable with who you know, who they are.
Yeah. It's really interesting and I
think I got the corporate mask was definitely around protection
for me. You know, I, I had to sometimes
(17:55):
with some of the decision or, you know, if you're dismissing
staff or, you know, there are issues around, you know, I'd say
definitely it's around HR that sometimes you have to put a
significant boundary in place ifyou want to protect you and your
organization. And so even though you may be
feeling very, very differently emotionally about that situation
(18:16):
that you may be dealing with, it's very hard.
You can't show that sometimes. You know, you try to have
empathy, but at the end of the day, the decision is going to be
made and you've got to stick with it.
So I think it does. I 100% agree with you.
It does build up over time. But I think when, and this
sounds really weird and I don't want to say it's when will
(18:38):
because I'm not a person. If something, if you've made a
decision and something is not sitting with you or when you're
alone at night and you've dealt with, and I'm talking really
around people dealing with people and something is not
sitting right with viewing your good, Obviously you have to
(18:58):
protect yourself. But I found that has started to
go back to people if I felt thathad been too harsh with them or
they may have just caught me at that wrong time and and I may
have been dismissive, etcetera, is to actually acknowledge that
and go back to them and say, youknow, and make time and
apologize. But I didn't do that enough.
(19:20):
And upon reflection, I should have done so.
I think that you're the only person that can acknowledge that
maths and listen to your guts. And if you can make a
correction, and it's very hard to make a correction because it
could mean that you're you're actually owning up to an error.
Purpose is a big word within organizations.
(19:43):
Some some experts or people haveshared that some of the causes
of burnout. If people don't have purpose or
if their purpose doesn't align with the company's purpose, it
can have some fundamental challenges.
So I'm curious to know what doespurpose mean to you now compared
to your years in the corporate leadership I.
Think you've got to people say it's purpose and I, I agree.
(20:07):
And sometimes within my career and I've had my purpose
somewhere else. And I know that sounds a bit
odd, but for me having purpose, if your purpose isn't right
within your in your career, you can actually have that
externally. It could be, you know,
volunteering or doing something.I think values have to be
(20:28):
aligned. And if values are not aligned,
then there is something that's going to be very, very
disjointed. I mean, the emotional weight
that that will put on you with your value of being aligned is
going to be very, very hard for you in your career.
So I do think values aligned, ifyou can get values aligned and
the company also helps with the purpose or what you want to
(20:50):
achieve, then you are on a winning streak.
But I do think the values align has to be 100% and if you can
find an organization, because sometimes that's been really
honest, life happens and you can't get the most and if you
can find that elsewhere, then I think you should pursue.
So I've always been volunteeringbut the time of alignment is the
(21:12):
emotions, so no after. 13 years in Australia, do you feel like
you found your people or are they still cultural shaped you
are navigating around? Definitely have some athletes is
a really falling and when I camehere, I come from we have a
significant population in the UK.
When I came to Adelaide it is definitely not is it the six
(21:35):
degrees of separation, 7° of separation.
I can't think of what the word is.
That is not what it's like here in place as a late is 3° of
separation. Everybody will know everybody.
That's so great. It's a very, very strange
phenomenon, you know, and I comefrom the UK and here in Adelaide
it's very hard to get into some of those relationships.
(21:57):
And it works because there's this weird thing, Are you ready
that people ask people where they went to school, right.
Where you went to school determines so much.
In Adelaide, we're only the whole of SA, which is bigger
than the UK, is only 1.8 millionpeople.
It's bigger than the UK more so.So they have this thing and
(22:18):
there's a lot of private schoolshere and things like that.
So there's a lot of this alumni networks and I 100% go, you know
what, I'm not from Adelaide, I'mfrom the UKI do have a tribe of
hobbies or the UK because there is a synergy of and you know,
you've moved from a different country, you know, there's this
whole synergy of you've got here, you've had the struggles,
(22:40):
you applied for the there's all this instant bonding.
So yes, I do have a group of people who are from the UK,
people who have migrated to Australia.
You definitely, you can break that down.
So for me, I've got some phenomenal relationships and
I've definitely found my tribe and they're very different
(23:01):
tribes that I've got. It's, I definitely think it's
important not to think that one group of people can give you
everything. I don't think that's the case.
But I have got my roots and theygo to them for different
reasons. I'm very, very fortunate.
And when you come to a new country, don't say no to things
because they will stop asking. That's my tips.
(23:25):
Say yes and then work it out if it's right for you.
Otherwise, yeah. Be open minded, explore, try and
find out in your own way. What advice would you give to
someone right now facing redundancy or feeling past your
prime I. Would say don't necessarily look
at what you are not really doingassessment of the skills that
(23:47):
you think it's really important.It's very, very different
approach. I think sometimes it's really
easy to go, well, I've been in this role, this is my in my
career. It doesn't have to be like that
and to look internally what is going to make you happy or what
you not necessarily what societies expectation of you is,
(24:10):
you know, so I was the chief operating officer, so you would
think that a CEO would be my next career pathway.
And I looked internally, I went,that's not what I want.
So I think putting the expectation of what people
expect on your resume to the side and look at your skills and
your transfer and what you can do, especially at the age that
we're at is what you can do thatcan make a difference.
(24:33):
You know, if you're in the situation where finances are not
like the 100% driver for you, like as in a salary and really,
really look at what is going to be meaningful to you.
What's your final thoughts for listeners, whether they are
changing career or changing industry or, you know, moving
(24:55):
from the corporate world into entrepreneurship or trying
something new, I would say. That doing it alone is too hard
and I'm not necessarily going into partnership or
directorship. I'm very, very fortunate with
what I set up. I've got a great business
partner, but I think it's really, really important that
you have people around you now. We're really, really fortunate
(25:17):
here. We have a lot of government
schemes that help with mentoringand coaching and can give you
that guidance when you're starting on a path on your own.
But even if it's within your network, talking to people and
not necessarily they sound really bad, but not necessarily
friends and family. I'm talking about business
connections or people that you might admire because your
friends and family may not say the things that you really need
(25:40):
to hear. So somebody was getting that
other perspective is important. So look out for those grants.
Look out free mentoring or coaching.
Then really surround yourself because it can be really, really
isolating and lonely. But there is actually help out
there and there's a lot of help.And if you ask, you'd be
surprised A. Huge thank you to Marissa for
(26:04):
blessing us with your time but incredible insight.
If listeners like what we've discussed and want to find more
about your work, where can they find more about your work?
Marissa, I'm. Definitely on LinkedIn.
I absolutely love LinkedIn. It's my favorite.
I look connected with people. So you can find me Marissa
Hankinson. I'm very fortunate that my
(26:25):
profile is my name too, so none of those fancy numbers.
And then if you want to check out Wave Breaker Productions,
you can pop that into Google andyou can see the podcasts and
other things that we can produceas well and might give you a
little bit of inspiration on your journey, OK.
That's great. Thanks, Marissa.
No. Worries.
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