July 16, 2025 • 33 mins
Summary
In this episode of the Sustainability Transformations podcast, Enock interviews Joy Ogeh-Hartfield, a transformational leadership coach. They discuss the importance of personal development, the disconnect between leadership intentions and employee experiences, and the challenges of managing people in today's environment. Joy emphasizes the need for authenticity in leadership, the significance of purpose-driven leadership, and the role of effective feedback in fostering growth. The conversation highlights practical tools and strategies for leaders to enhance their impact and create a more engaged workforce.
Guest Bio:
Joy Ogeh-Hutfield
Purpose-Driven Leader | Visionary | Transformation Coach | TEDx Speaker | Author | CEO, JT International Leadership Academy
Joy Ogeh-Hutfield is a globally respected Transformation Coach, visionary thought leader, and CEO of JT International Leadership Academy. With over two decades of international experience, Joy is recognized for igniting radical inner transformation in leaders, teams, and individuals across the UK, Europe, Africa, and the U.S.
A TEDx speaker and author of seven transformational books, Joy is more than a coach, she is a catalyst for lasting change. Her leadership philosophy is grounded in a simple but powerful truth:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Leadership, they really began toto see that their employees
bought into that kind of Co creation because that's really
what it's about. Yeah.
So a leader, you're not, you're not, you're not there to do it
on your own. And that's where earlier on I
talked about the connection. It's about that Co creation.
What are we creating together? Working with them?
(00:20):
It brought about that sense of ownership.
You see, when your employees have that sense of ownership,
it's a win win. It's a win win.
You don't have to work too hard because they're in that Co
creation process with you. Welcome to Sustainability
Transformations podcast where wediscuss bold ideas to drive
(00:44):
positive change for people, community and business.
And today I'm so pleased we haveJoy Oggy Hatfield who is a
purpose driven leader, visionarytransformation coach, Telex
speaker TO of JT International Leadership Academy is more than
a coach is a catalyst for lasting change.
(01:06):
Leadership philosophy is grounded in a simple but
powerful truth. Featured expert on BBCTV and
radio and respected voice in leadership and said mastery,
diversity and human potential voice.
Women empowerment events have created huge transformation
around the world, helping thousands reclaim their voice.
(01:27):
I'm so excited for this one because Joy has been a coach
coach for me in the past so I have a personal experience.
Welcome once again Joy. Can you introduce yourself and
what gets you excited about? Thank you so, so much.
I mean, that introduction was enough for Victoria, but wow,
you know, I am super, super excited to be here.
(01:50):
Doctor Enoch, you know, what a great podcast.
I've listened to a few. It's absolutely incredible.
The information, the guests thatyou have had have been
absolutely phenomenal. So it's a real pleasure and a
privilege, you know, to be here.And so thank you so much for
inviting me to your podcast. What gets you excited about the
(02:11):
personal transformation and mindset joy?
Well, it doesn't take a lot to excite me, but that that's the
truth to you. But but I get, I get, I get very
excited about personal development because that is one
thing that you can have control of.
We cannot control how other people behave.
We cannot control how other people, you know, choose to
(02:32):
lead, but we can control how we see ourselves and how we see the
world. So personal development is
absolutely key because it's it'sabout cultivating the right
mindset. Success has a mindset failure,
success there in the mind. So when we cultivate that right
(02:52):
mindset for success, it allows us then to be able to lead with
vision, to lead with integrity, and to lead with purpose.
A lot of leaders are trained to have purpose, but there's been a
huge challenge with employees, how they experience businesses
and their goals. So what are the most common
(03:13):
disconnect between leadership intentions or intent and
employee experience would you say?
You know, that's, that's, that'san incredible question.
And one of the biggest disconnects is when leaders
speak about values like inclusion and well-being and
empowerment, and these have become great buzzwords, but then
(03:34):
their behavior and the systems that they create around them or
the decision making doesn't quite reflect those values.
So with that, employees can really fill the gap immediately.
And that's where the, you know, the disconnect takes place.
Really, without leaders aligningtheir their actions, aligning
(03:56):
their intent with actions, you begin to breed mistrust because
then the employees are wonderingand thinking, well, actually,
you know, you're saying something, but then your actions
are demonstrating something else.
So, you know, for me, leadershipthen must move from performance
to transformative. So it's not about the badge of a
(04:18):
leader. I'm a leader.
This is what I do. But the question also is, am I
involved in that transformative process with those who I have
been called to serve, which of course are the employees?
So, so that means in that sense,having to engage employees takes
that skill of listening and acting consistently.
(04:41):
Your actions and your words are in alignment.
Yeah, thanks for sharing that. Within sustainability, again the
broadcast sustainability transformations, but I always
look at how sustainability can learn from other industry and it
turns out of IT transformations and other transformations.
Majority of the failure has to do with the culture and the
(05:04):
people aspect. Why do you think that aspect of
managing people within leadership and teams is
overlooked or they are not paid specific attention to within the
same leadership misalignment andengagement?
Well, managing people is tough because really we, you know,
(05:25):
getting to know yourself takes years, never mind being put in a
situation where you have to manage others and really get to,
to know them and to kind of understand their, their needs.
So we understand that that in itself comes with its own
challenges. But in this era and especially,
you know, with, with, with COVIDand everything that has
happened, things have changed. Expectations are different.
(05:48):
So it can never be business as usual.
We cannot lead as usual. So for leaders, it's important
now that we need to understand what that leadership style
looks, looks like in moving forward, every leader needs to
define their leadership style because that's the first point
of contact. So people get to understand what
you are about who you are as a leader.
(06:11):
So for me, that question, empathy, it's about trust, it's
about authenticity is no, we've moved from that era of here's my
badge, I'm a leader. What does that mean?
You know, am I leading with empathy?
Am I compassionate? So empathy is is where a leader
(06:31):
pauses to ask how are you reallynot just, you know, because I
just want to, you know, say it for the for the for, you know,
for, for saying sake and, and move on.
But having that, you know that that that space of giving their
employees that space to really pause and to understand about
their own well-being and how they can support and contribute
(06:54):
positively. So it's it's about listening,
it's about empathy, it's about trust, and it's about
authenticity. Leadership alignment is very
important and so moving towards the right direction of the goal
because if you are achieving a goal but you're going towards
the wrong direction, that could be a challenge.
So can you share a real coachingexample where leadership
(07:15):
misalignment hurt engagement? So I worked with what with a
global firm that had a strong, where they declared to have a
strong commitment to sustainabilities internally, the
the leaders where we're pushing unrealistic KPI's because we, we
like to do that because it's oneof those, you know, these are
the things that I'm doing. And sometimes you know, it, it
(07:37):
ticks the boxes. But really what was happening
was these KPI's were leading to burnout, high turnovers, and the
teams were not really feeling empowered.
And, and of course, in terms of the challenge that they were
using, there was there wasn't that, that consultation, you
know, that, you know, those keepKPI's were there and it was
expected to be met. And so in in coaching, we were
(07:59):
able to uncover most of the leaders were operating out of
fear, you know, fear of being seen as, you know, soft or, or
underperforming. And so this is where the
mindset, you know, so if I'm there caring, you know, for, for
my staff or I'm asking them, or I'm spending time in
conversation, then I will not berespected because, you know,
(08:21):
they won't see, they won't take me seriously.
But once we were able to shift that mindset in terms of how
they thought, we were able to help them align their actions
within the organization stated purpose, which was the
importance of being able to engage their employees.
And once the employees felt listened to and felt heard,
(08:42):
interesting enough, you know, the initiative that they were
trying to push began to take shape.
Because it wasn't about really pushing those KPI, but it was
about bringing them into alignment with a clear
understanding of what it would take to get them engaged in
those initiative and enable themto perform and get outstanding
(09:03):
results. That's great.
That's it, Good practical example.
So you mentioned about empathy, so authentic leadership.
And if I use the church pity example, where now with my own
experience and common conversations, people can tell
when an e-mail or a message which has come true looks a bit
(09:24):
robotic and it's not authentic, again, I'm using that as a
context about how important authenticity is.
And so it's called me to think around how do empathy and trust
and authenticity actually show up in leadership practice,
considering I've just shared that people can sense those or
feel that authenticity. So how do you think those
(09:47):
empathy trust can actually show up in the leadership practice?
You know, that's again an amazing, I love those questions.
I love and it has a it has a simple response.
Just speak from the heart. Speak from the heart.
You know, authenticity is something that has become well
known in terms of, you know, we talk about authentic leadership
(10:09):
and people are really embracing authenticity because people are
realizing that we, we don't wantto deal with people who are
fake. We don't want to deal with
people who are not present. So when leaders are present with
their people, that is, that is the, the basis of leading
authentically because it's not about being liked or being
popular. It's also about speaking your
(10:31):
truth and people who have come to value that.
So authentic leadership in a waycan, can start small.
It can start by having those daily moments where you can
connect instead of that control.But it's about connecting one
person at a time. And those connections become
really, really important. You know, for many people
actually, and especially, you know, after the pandemic,
(10:53):
people, you know, when you speakto the, you know, the ordinary
person, they're not really keen on, on having a huge pay rise.
Yes, they would like a pay rise,but they want people to, they
want a leader who's able to understand them to to connect
them, a leader who sees them, a leader who hears them, a leader
who is obit to, to to be supportive and help them
(11:14):
transition to that next level interms of their own vision and
their own aspiration. That's what really really
matters. So that's of course brings us
into that purpose driven leadership because when leaders
understand that sense of having that purpose and why, then
they're able to be able to drivethose change and embrace the
(11:34):
authenticity that lies within. Recent research have confirmed
those areas of values mean a lotto employees.
Leaders. Maya Angelou that mentioned,
people will forget what you said, but they will never forget
how you made them feel. That's right.
And just to add also, it is about choosing connection over
(11:57):
control because we can't be be deceptive because we think as
leaders we have to control everything.
But, but really real authenticity is about choosing,
and there's a choice here because we can choose to fully
connect with those that we work with over actually what.
Is a simple shift a leader can make today to lead more
(12:19):
authentically. Present.
So stop replacing performance, you know, because we, we, we
want to perform, we want to be seen.
And so we have these masks that we wear or some leaders wear,
but is that taking away that mask and simply being present?
So next time a leader has a meeting, if you're listening,
(12:41):
next time you have a meeting, well, you know, sometimes I
would even advise you have any of those those PowerPoints or or
slide desk stand to one side, stand before those who are your
employees or you know who you'vebeen.
Like I use the word called to serve and speak to them from
your heart. And it can't be scary because
you're thinking, Oh my God, whatam I going to say?
(13:03):
But that is where that real connection is because when you
are not hiding behind those slides and those PowerPoints and
those fancy words, you know, people can actually come to
respect the real you because foronce you are not hiding behind
those things. You have the opportunity to
truly engage, be present, and tolisten.
Yeah, it ties back to that connection, as you mentioned,
(13:26):
because if you've you've got a PowerPoint, your attention is
focused on those tools. But if you've pulled them aside
on occasion, then that allows that connection to be improved,
so that's great. So or.
Even at meetings. Sorry.
Sorry. Yeah.
That's good. Good.
But, you know, like one of one of the one of the leaders that I
(13:47):
was, I was coaching and he was leading a, you know, a
multinational organization. And he really had a fear, and I
think one of his fears with the fear of criticism.
You know, if I, if I don't really prepare or, you know,
would my staff respect me? Would they like what they see?
You know, I, I so, but when we went, once we began to
understand that actually it was OK.
He's said to have meetings, you know, Monday meetings.
(14:09):
He would have actually, you know, he would have been death
by a PowerPoint. But instead of just coming into
the meetings, people were relaxed.
He was spending at least half anhour going round and asking
people how they were, you know, tell us about your weekend.
How do you feel? You know, what could we do to,
to, to make your experience working with us better?
And people were like, wow, this is, this is, this is incredible.
(14:32):
And so, yeah, so it, it really brought a whole different
dynamic to his leadership. People are not looking for
perfect human beings to be leaders.
No. Well, everybody knows that
you're not perfect, you know, individually.
So why would they expect so much?
But I know perhaps it it can be over time the expectation that
when you're at the top, then youhave to get 100% every day,
(14:56):
totally five days a year exploring the next around.
So purpose is such a big buzzword which is being turned
around perhaps. But how can leaders live
actually through these daily actions that reflect their
purpose? So it can be a manufacturing
company that their purpose is toproduce the best soap or product
(15:20):
for customers and they are so passionate about that production
that they are providing. Or it can be a healthcare
company where they are so passionate about delivering
healthcare for people. How can leaders learn through
this purpose? What do you say?
Another brilliant question. I mean, this is an area that I
absolutely enjoy. One of my books is on purpose,
(15:43):
although from a personal development angle.
And the thing with purpose, the thing with purpose is we, we, we
want to be purpose driven. We use the word almost kind of
really casual, you know, your organization, you know, we want
purpose driven instead. And I use that as well, you
know, in my literature. But the question is, how do you
(16:04):
become purpose driven, whether it's in your business, whether
it's in your organization without first understanding that
purpose for your own self. Do you have a purpose?
You can't be purpose driven if you don't have a purpose.
Your own self is when your purpose aligns with your
organizational purpose that you're able to be purpose driven
because that comes with its own set of values.
(16:26):
And that is that alignment. And that's why you find
sometimes, you know, leaders become really disengaged and
dissatisfied because they are inorganizations that does not
reflect their values. They're struggling.
So how do you drive change or sustainable change where
actually you are in a place you don't really believe in or you
don't really believe that actually what they're what
(16:47):
they're doing or what they're saying, you know, has a
purposeful impact. So purpose in a sense, let's
just even just dive into that purpose is what gives your life
a meaning. That's from the personal
perspective. We can use that and say purpose
is what gives meaning to any organization.
So when we talk about how can leaders live, you know, actually
(17:10):
live through their daily actionsis being able to understand what
is it that gives them that meaning and then align it with
their true values and their trueactions.
Body of work that has connected purpose with resilience as well,
but I know that's not what we'retalking about, but I just
thought I would share how important having that purpose
(17:32):
gets you through the challenges.So you know, when I say the
resilience, you have your own purpose and if you're able to
align it with the business or the organization purpose, then
through the ups and downs, you know you have a goal.
And so that helps to go. So thanks for sharing that.
So have you seen companies, organizations succeed by linking
their purpose to employee engagement or sustainability or
(17:56):
other business outcomes? Would you share?
Well, yes, yes, I, I once coached a company in the energy
sector that moved from that whole compliance driven
sustainability to purpose drivenleadership because we can comply
and then we sit and tick the boxbecause you know, whether people
are engaging or not, you will never know.
And, and people have sat there and disengaged because really
(18:21):
the, the emphasis has always been that whole kind of
compliance. As long as people were in
compliance, then they felt that things were moving.
But when they actually moved from that strategy to a more
purpose driven sustainability, purpose driven leadership, they
really began to to see that their employees bought into that
(18:43):
kind of Co creation because that's really what it's about.
Yeah. So a leader, you're not, you're
not, you're not there to do it on your own.
And that's where earlier on I talked about the connection.
It's about that Co creation. What are we creating together?
That's what brings about those sustainable, sustainable goals.
It gives. Well, in my, in my case, working
(19:04):
with them, it brought about thatsense of ownership.
You see, when your employees have that sense of ownership,
it's a win win. It's a win win.
You don't have to work too hard because they're in that Co
creation process with you and inturn organization recognizing
their efforts as well. So the engagement was was, was,
(19:25):
you know, skyrocketed. They could actually see the
difference that their people were contributing to something
that was bigger than themselves.And that's what purpose does.
Purpose is bigger than us. That's the that's the bigger
picture. So it's not about us or it's not
about you as a leader. It's something that is bigger
than you. And that's why we need others in
(19:47):
that purpose driven leadership. Approach the challenge is
compliance may come from a government, but there is always
a reason why a government will bring in compliance.
And so we have a lot of companies that may be caught up
in that or we are doing it because we have to comply.
But there is a purpose behind it.
And this is where the leader have to be able to communicate
that if you if you move that government company compliance,
(20:11):
you have employees where they may be doing things, but they
don't even know why they're doing, they don't know the
purpose why they're doing it. That's right.
That's right. That's the why I mean that
that's you've nailed it there. You know, you've absolutely
nailed it. You know, it's almost like when
you say to a child, when you sayto a child, do this, what do
they say? Why?
Yeah. And then as adults, we get very
(20:31):
upset. What do you mean just do it?
Just get on with it. And they're probably thinking,
well, no, I know I'm going to doit, but you tell me what the why
is. And you're absolutely spot on.
And at least and some leaders fail to do that.
But actually, when you take timeand helping people to understand
the why and bringing that purpose into it comes back into
(20:53):
the patience and bringing about that connection, People will go
that extra mile for you or for any organization.
Once you're able to help them connect with why they do what
they do, it makes sense. If it doesn't make sense, well.
Exploring the next segment around feedback.
So in my own career experience, I think it was probably about
(21:16):
eight years ago or maybe 7 yearsago where I had the opportunity
to be exposed to three, we call it 360 feedback, where I
received feedback from my peers,I received feedback from my line
managers, and then I received feedback from extended customers
that I don't work today, today. And I've still got a copy of
(21:38):
that 360 feedback. And fortunately, I've been able
to work on the areas of improvement acknowledging.
And so I share my story to show how important feedback is.
But quite frankly, I am saying nicely now at the very start, I
remember when I received that 360 feedback within the first
two weeks, I just couldn't open it, you know, so haven't shared
(22:00):
my own struggle. Why is feedback cetera
struggling? Confidence.
Do you know, it's one of those things, isn't it really?
Because most leaders, I mean, we're bringing it because we're
talking about leadership, but most people in general were
never taught. They were never taught how to
give feedback. I mean, when was the last time
you went to, you went to UD, youdid your PhD, Who sat you down?
(22:20):
I mean, I do leadership courses and and programs.
So I bring this as one of the core subject matter because I
know it is very, very hard to understand what that feed, but
nobody really sat you down and go, this is how you give
feedback. You found yourself in those
situation and then you quickly learnt then has often been tied
to criticism. And that's why most people
(22:42):
struggle and most organizations struggle.
And interesting enough, there isthe right way to give feedback.
What is back again to that? You know, having that mindset
shift that feedback isn't about criticism.
Feedback is about growth. You see, when we understand
that, then it makes it so much easier.
Maybe if you invited somebody toyour office or you know, a
(23:04):
leader was, was going to give, you know, an appraisal and they,
they, they started right and say, OK, these are the things
you've done wrong. They actually started with the
things they've done right. With praise.
You can you say it's not feedback or a thank you?
Thank you so much, Enoch, for the things you've done in the
past 12 months. I really appreciate it.
However, there are certain areasthat I know that perhaps you
(23:25):
need help, perhaps you need support.
Could we look at it together? Did that sound like, like, like
right feedback? It is feedback.
There is an empowering tone. There's an empowering language
that has been attached to that that allows people to feel I'm
not a failure. I'm not all bad.
It's something good inside of me, you know, So, so that's
(23:46):
really so that's always the challenge.
So there's a right way that readers need to kind of reframe
feedback and see feedback as a gift.
You know, it is, it is a gift, but it's also about companies,
organization, creating the rightenvironment for that feedback to
to really take root and be seen as growth.
(24:06):
Because if you think about the 360 and of course people have to
rank you. And then people got some people
have gotten really upset and notspoke and not spoken to their to
their colleagues. Because if they find that you
said that about me, how could you have said that about me?
You know, people get really, really upset.
So people that are afraid to actually be honest.
So it's an interesting, it's an interesting 1.
(24:27):
So being able to understand thatactually it's it's a gift.
It's about care, it's about clarity and feedback also can be
an act of respect. And it's not necessarily about
that rejection of feeling rejected.
But having said that, you know there is there's much work to be
(24:47):
done in this area. Yeah, now that's in my instance,
it was anonymous, but it's so interesting where even though it
was anonymous, you still have the mindset and.
And, and yes, I mean, I know this time, but I, I had a
coachee, you know, in senior leadership who had his 360.
And do you know, it left a scar?Yeah.
(25:08):
He was, he felt it was very unfair, the way that he'd been
rated. And he never recovered.
Never. No, he never recovered because
it was there was some really hurtful things and perhaps the
way it was communicated that that for months he suffered a
real lack of self-confidence andand self esteem.
So, you know, yes, we're, we're,we're, we're, you know, there's
a funny side to that as well. But the reality is that it is
(25:32):
something that organization ought to take seriously.
We need to leaders need to learnhow to give proper feedback that
is empowering, but not destroy the person that is receiving
that feedback. Thanks for sharing that.
I mean, it's so important. So what coaching tools do you
recommend to help leaders give feedback that's engaging and not
(25:55):
exhausting like what we've just talked about, where it can be
damaging, but. There's all sorts of coaching
and that I could recommend. I mean you got the SBI model,
which is the situation behavior impact that's of often a really
great starting point and it kindof keeps that feedback
objective. It keeps it constructive and but
also, you know, it is asking before you give that feedback,
(26:17):
it's always a good idea to say, are you open to some feedback?
Ask because then you are laying the foundation.
People might be anxious and you can settle them before you
actually give that feedback. Are you, or you could say, are
you open to some feedback that may make you grow?
Can you see that's a different, it's a different approach to are
you open to some feedback? And then they have all these
preconceived idea what you're going to say.
(26:38):
But when you bring that growth element, we're going back to
that the why. Remember, when people know why
you, they, they, they, they are receiving that feedback or why
the feedback could be negative, then you are equipping them to
understand and what needs to happen for them to go on to that
next level. So feedback with the sense of
(26:59):
growth and helping them makes itfar more, you know, worthwhile
and enjoyable process and it invites engagement, not
resistance. And that's really important.
Also, leaders must, must, must understand where were they?
Sometimes we're quick to, to to criticize or we're quick to find
fault. But one of the things that keeps
(27:20):
me grounded is even if I want toshare, you know, a feedback, I
always remember when, what was that like 10 years ago?
What was that like? Because it's easy to go, you
should have done this and you should have done that.
And I take a back step almost in, in that sense of humility
and go, well, I'm going to minute joy.
You know, when you were at that stage, you weren't, you weren't
doing that. So you take a backstage to bring
(27:41):
that intuitive goal. Actually, they've done well
because when I was there, you know, I was perhaps doing the
same thing. But sometimes, because we have
grown as leaders, we almost forget that we were once there
as well. So that's also that reminder
brings that empathetic approach,you know, to the.
Feedback, I don't know who said it, but said the only person who
(28:01):
has never made a mistake is someone who hasn't tried
something new. So when people are trying
something new, it might be a newly promoted supervisor or a
leader or any new field. Yes, we should be able to have
the grace and the humility that we probably started from Samuel.
So thanks for sharing that. So as a final area for the
(28:22):
people team or the human resource team listening, what is
the first thing they can do today to fix the top?
That's a really great question. I would say start with the
mirror work. It's an interesting that mirror
that mirror work and that mirrorwork is about helping to
createspace for senior leaders to look at themselves.
(28:42):
Because we back to what we were saying earlier.
We can get carried away thinkingwe know it all or we don't want
to be seen as not having all theanswers.
So that mirror effect is let letyou know, create a space for for
leaders. And this is what we do in
coaching because I have, you know, a lot of leadership
programs. We, we have that space for
reflection to, to, to look at themselves.
(29:03):
You know, that could be a starting, you know, a starting
point, which I could also maybe run a leadership cultural audit,
assessing the culture, you know,within the organization or, or
the culture within their leadership.
And this is where coaching becomes a really, really
powerful tool because coaching can kind of help surface some of
(29:24):
those blind spots as well. Many executive teams, you know,
they think that they're aligned with purpose, they're aligned
with people, but actually their impact tells a different story.
It's all about impact. How am I impacting me?
How am I impacting and influencing those around me?
How often do leaders ask themselves those questions?
Because when you think how am I impacting those, that's brings
(29:46):
in emotional intelligence. You are aware of how you're
robbing other people and you're rubbing up the right way or the
wrong way. What impact am I having?
And HR also, you know, must be brave to, to, to speak that
truth as well and guide leaders to who they need to be.
And that's really, really important.
So when I do a lot of work with leaders, I bring in emotional
(30:07):
intelligence. That is one of the, to me, it's
one of the best things ever. When leaders have that emotional
intelligence now, they are readyto align not only with purpose,
but they're able to understand that vision and lead with
vision, lead with integrity and be purpose driven.
Good. Yeah, thanks.
So perhaps as a final opportunity, if you have AHR
(30:28):
people person culture who is very keen on taking up the
opportunity. So for example, if I use my own
experience where through the sponsored coaching, the
leadership experience where let's say it was about, was it 8
weeks or so? I'm curious to know what is the
typical time frame if HR team would like to book for
(30:50):
leadership for teams, what are the typical time frame?
Is it six weeks, six months, 12 months?
If you can give some insight as to their coaching and their
leadership. It it varies.
It varies. We've got we got nine week prior
programs, we got 12 week programs and this is weekly.
And what that does interesting enough in terms of having that
external, you know, in terms of having a coach, it means that HR
(31:14):
don't feel they have to do it all.
And sometimes when something is within some Lisa don't either
take it seriously because they just they might just take the
box or they're afraid to unveil certain things because they
think it's going to be held against them or they're going to
appear too vulnerable. But when they come to people,
somebody like me as a coach, we're able to really dig deep,
but bring about that reflective purposes, that reflective
(31:37):
practices that allows them and also give them the tools.
So they're coming into a space of non judgement and they're
bringing them that their authentic self because that is
where the growth lies and helping them to harness the
growth mindset. So we have programs and I would
say, you know the 12 weeks program is always a starting
point because it brings them into alignment with helping them
(32:00):
create that platform where they can have the space to to develop
their own leadership style and to understand the leader they
are becoming. That's huge.
Thank you to Joy for your time, for blessing with your time, but
incredible insight from mindset to purpose to all the areas that
we've looked at. So if listeners want to find
(32:21):
more of your work, where can they find you?
So yes, well, there's, there's, there's two ways.
You can go to www.joytransformationcoach.com
or you can go to WWJTIL got Academy.
So we've got our Academy programs.
I talked about vision, integrity, purpose.
We've got our which is VIP. So we have our VIP leadership
(32:43):
approach. That is one of the things that
bringing aspiring leaders or leaders who really want to be
grounded in their purpose. So that's the program that we we
run for them. Or if they want to come into the
coaching space that of course, you know, joy transformation
coaching helps them in their ownpersonal and professional
development. So you can, you can, you can
find one, of course, on ThinkingJoy, OK Hartfield or JT
(33:07):
International Leadership Academy.
We have a page on Lincoln as well where you can sign up to
receive our newsletters on leadership matters.
And yeah, so we can, we can connect, you know, your spaces.
That's great, Joy. I'll put the links.
I'll take the links from Joy andI'll put in a description.
So if you are listening or watching this, it should be
easier to access if you look to the links.
(33:28):
So yeah, thanks once again, Joy.Wow.
Well, thank you so much. This has been absolutely
incredible. And you are also, so thank you.
Thanks for the feedback.
Leadership, they really began toto see that their employees
bought into that kind of Co creation because that's really
what it's about. Yeah.
So a leader, you're not, you're not, you're not there to do it
on your own. And that's where earlier on I
talked about the connection. It's about that Co creation.
What are we creating together? Working with them?
(00:20):
It brought about that sense of ownership.
You see, when your employees have that sense of ownership,
it's a win win. It's a win win.
You don't have to work too hard because they're in that Co
creation process with you. Welcome to Sustainability
Transformations podcast where wediscuss bold ideas to drive
(00:44):
positive change for people, community and business.
And today I'm so pleased we haveJoy Oggy Hatfield who is a
purpose driven leader, visionarytransformation coach, Telex
speaker TO of JT International Leadership Academy is more than
a coach is a catalyst for lasting change.
(01:06):
Leadership philosophy is grounded in a simple but
powerful truth. Featured expert on BBCTV and
radio and respected voice in leadership and said mastery,
diversity and human potential voice.
Women empowerment events have created huge transformation
around the world, helping thousands reclaim their voice.
(01:27):
I'm so excited for this one because Joy has been a coach
coach for me in the past so I have a personal experience.
Welcome once again Joy. Can you introduce yourself and
what gets you excited about? Thank you so, so much.
I mean, that introduction was enough for Victoria, but wow,
you know, I am super, super excited to be here.
(01:50):
Doctor Enoch, you know, what a great podcast.
I've listened to a few. It's absolutely incredible.
The information, the guests thatyou have had have been
absolutely phenomenal. So it's a real pleasure and a
privilege, you know, to be here.And so thank you so much for
inviting me to your podcast. What gets you excited about the
(02:11):
personal transformation and mindset joy?
Well, it doesn't take a lot to excite me, but that that's the
truth to you. But but I get, I get, I get very
excited about personal development because that is one
thing that you can have control of.
We cannot control how other people behave.
We cannot control how other people, you know, choose to
(02:32):
lead, but we can control how we see ourselves and how we see the
world. So personal development is
absolutely key because it's it'sabout cultivating the right
mindset. Success has a mindset failure,
success there in the mind. So when we cultivate that right
(02:52):
mindset for success, it allows us then to be able to lead with
vision, to lead with integrity, and to lead with purpose.
A lot of leaders are trained to have purpose, but there's been a
huge challenge with employees, how they experience businesses
and their goals. So what are the most common
(03:13):
disconnect between leadership intentions or intent and
employee experience would you say?
You know, that's, that's, that'san incredible question.
And one of the biggest disconnects is when leaders
speak about values like inclusion and well-being and
empowerment, and these have become great buzzwords, but then
(03:34):
their behavior and the systems that they create around them or
the decision making doesn't quite reflect those values.
So with that, employees can really fill the gap immediately.
And that's where the, you know, the disconnect takes place.
Really, without leaders aligningtheir their actions, aligning
(03:56):
their intent with actions, you begin to breed mistrust because
then the employees are wonderingand thinking, well, actually,
you know, you're saying something, but then your actions
are demonstrating something else.
So, you know, for me, leadershipthen must move from performance
to transformative. So it's not about the badge of a
(04:18):
leader. I'm a leader.
This is what I do. But the question also is, am I
involved in that transformative process with those who I have
been called to serve, which of course are the employees?
So, so that means in that sense,having to engage employees takes
that skill of listening and acting consistently.
(04:41):
Your actions and your words are in alignment.
Yeah, thanks for sharing that. Within sustainability, again the
broadcast sustainability transformations, but I always
look at how sustainability can learn from other industry and it
turns out of IT transformations and other transformations.
Majority of the failure has to do with the culture and the
(05:04):
people aspect. Why do you think that aspect of
managing people within leadership and teams is
overlooked or they are not paid specific attention to within the
same leadership misalignment andengagement?
Well, managing people is tough because really we, you know,
(05:25):
getting to know yourself takes years, never mind being put in a
situation where you have to manage others and really get to,
to know them and to kind of understand their, their needs.
So we understand that that in itself comes with its own
challenges. But in this era and especially,
you know, with, with, with COVIDand everything that has
happened, things have changed. Expectations are different.
(05:48):
So it can never be business as usual.
We cannot lead as usual. So for leaders, it's important
now that we need to understand what that leadership style
looks, looks like in moving forward, every leader needs to
define their leadership style because that's the first point
of contact. So people get to understand what
you are about who you are as a leader.
(06:11):
So for me, that question, empathy, it's about trust, it's
about authenticity is no, we've moved from that era of here's my
badge, I'm a leader. What does that mean?
You know, am I leading with empathy?
Am I compassionate? So empathy is is where a leader
(06:31):
pauses to ask how are you reallynot just, you know, because I
just want to, you know, say it for the for the for, you know,
for, for saying sake and, and move on.
But having that, you know that that that space of giving their
employees that space to really pause and to understand about
their own well-being and how they can support and contribute
(06:54):
positively. So it's it's about listening,
it's about empathy, it's about trust, and it's about
authenticity. Leadership alignment is very
important and so moving towards the right direction of the goal
because if you are achieving a goal but you're going towards
the wrong direction, that could be a challenge.
So can you share a real coachingexample where leadership
(07:15):
misalignment hurt engagement? So I worked with what with a
global firm that had a strong, where they declared to have a
strong commitment to sustainabilities internally, the
the leaders where we're pushing unrealistic KPI's because we, we
like to do that because it's oneof those, you know, these are
the things that I'm doing. And sometimes you know, it, it
(07:37):
ticks the boxes. But really what was happening
was these KPI's were leading to burnout, high turnovers, and the
teams were not really feeling empowered.
And, and of course, in terms of the challenge that they were
using, there was there wasn't that, that consultation, you
know, that, you know, those keepKPI's were there and it was
expected to be met. And so in in coaching, we were
(07:59):
able to uncover most of the leaders were operating out of
fear, you know, fear of being seen as, you know, soft or, or
underperforming. And so this is where the
mindset, you know, so if I'm there caring, you know, for, for
my staff or I'm asking them, or I'm spending time in
conversation, then I will not berespected because, you know,
(08:21):
they won't see, they won't take me seriously.
But once we were able to shift that mindset in terms of how
they thought, we were able to help them align their actions
within the organization stated purpose, which was the
importance of being able to engage their employees.
And once the employees felt listened to and felt heard,
(08:42):
interesting enough, you know, the initiative that they were
trying to push began to take shape.
Because it wasn't about really pushing those KPI, but it was
about bringing them into alignment with a clear
understanding of what it would take to get them engaged in
those initiative and enable themto perform and get outstanding
(09:03):
results. That's great.
That's it, Good practical example.
So you mentioned about empathy, so authentic leadership.
And if I use the church pity example, where now with my own
experience and common conversations, people can tell
when an e-mail or a message which has come true looks a bit
(09:24):
robotic and it's not authentic, again, I'm using that as a
context about how important authenticity is.
And so it's called me to think around how do empathy and trust
and authenticity actually show up in leadership practice,
considering I've just shared that people can sense those or
feel that authenticity. So how do you think those
(09:47):
empathy trust can actually show up in the leadership practice?
You know, that's again an amazing, I love those questions.
I love and it has a it has a simple response.
Just speak from the heart. Speak from the heart.
You know, authenticity is something that has become well
known in terms of, you know, we talk about authentic leadership
(10:09):
and people are really embracing authenticity because people are
realizing that we, we don't wantto deal with people who are
fake. We don't want to deal with
people who are not present. So when leaders are present with
their people, that is, that is the, the basis of leading
authentically because it's not about being liked or being
popular. It's also about speaking your
(10:31):
truth and people who have come to value that.
So authentic leadership in a waycan, can start small.
It can start by having those daily moments where you can
connect instead of that control.But it's about connecting one
person at a time. And those connections become
really, really important. You know, for many people
actually, and especially, you know, after the pandemic,
(10:53):
people, you know, when you speakto the, you know, the ordinary
person, they're not really keen on, on having a huge pay rise.
Yes, they would like a pay rise,but they want people to, they
want a leader who's able to understand them to to connect
them, a leader who sees them, a leader who hears them, a leader
who is obit to, to to be supportive and help them
(11:14):
transition to that next level interms of their own vision and
their own aspiration. That's what really really
matters. So that's of course brings us
into that purpose driven leadership because when leaders
understand that sense of having that purpose and why, then
they're able to be able to drivethose change and embrace the
(11:34):
authenticity that lies within. Recent research have confirmed
those areas of values mean a lotto employees.
Leaders. Maya Angelou that mentioned,
people will forget what you said, but they will never forget
how you made them feel. That's right.
And just to add also, it is about choosing connection over
(11:57):
control because we can't be be deceptive because we think as
leaders we have to control everything.
But, but really real authenticity is about choosing,
and there's a choice here because we can choose to fully
connect with those that we work with over actually what.
Is a simple shift a leader can make today to lead more
(12:19):
authentically. Present.
So stop replacing performance, you know, because we, we, we
want to perform, we want to be seen.
And so we have these masks that we wear or some leaders wear,
but is that taking away that mask and simply being present?
So next time a leader has a meeting, if you're listening,
(12:41):
next time you have a meeting, well, you know, sometimes I
would even advise you have any of those those PowerPoints or or
slide desk stand to one side, stand before those who are your
employees or you know who you'vebeen.
Like I use the word called to serve and speak to them from
your heart. And it can't be scary because
you're thinking, Oh my God, whatam I going to say?
(13:03):
But that is where that real connection is because when you
are not hiding behind those slides and those PowerPoints and
those fancy words, you know, people can actually come to
respect the real you because foronce you are not hiding behind
those things. You have the opportunity to
truly engage, be present, and tolisten.
Yeah, it ties back to that connection, as you mentioned,
(13:26):
because if you've you've got a PowerPoint, your attention is
focused on those tools. But if you've pulled them aside
on occasion, then that allows that connection to be improved,
so that's great. So or.
Even at meetings. Sorry.
Sorry. Yeah.
That's good. Good.
But, you know, like one of one of the one of the leaders that I
(13:47):
was, I was coaching and he was leading a, you know, a
multinational organization. And he really had a fear, and I
think one of his fears with the fear of criticism.
You know, if I, if I don't really prepare or, you know,
would my staff respect me? Would they like what they see?
You know, I, I so, but when we went, once we began to
understand that actually it was OK.
He's said to have meetings, you know, Monday meetings.
(14:09):
He would have actually, you know, he would have been death
by a PowerPoint. But instead of just coming into
the meetings, people were relaxed.
He was spending at least half anhour going round and asking
people how they were, you know, tell us about your weekend.
How do you feel? You know, what could we do to,
to, to make your experience working with us better?
And people were like, wow, this is, this is, this is incredible.
(14:32):
And so, yeah, so it, it really brought a whole different
dynamic to his leadership. People are not looking for
perfect human beings to be leaders.
No. Well, everybody knows that
you're not perfect, you know, individually.
So why would they expect so much?
But I know perhaps it it can be over time the expectation that
when you're at the top, then youhave to get 100% every day,
(14:56):
totally five days a year exploring the next around.
So purpose is such a big buzzword which is being turned
around perhaps. But how can leaders live
actually through these daily actions that reflect their
purpose? So it can be a manufacturing
company that their purpose is toproduce the best soap or product
(15:20):
for customers and they are so passionate about that production
that they are providing. Or it can be a healthcare
company where they are so passionate about delivering
healthcare for people. How can leaders learn through
this purpose? What do you say?
Another brilliant question. I mean, this is an area that I
absolutely enjoy. One of my books is on purpose,
(15:43):
although from a personal development angle.
And the thing with purpose, the thing with purpose is we, we, we
want to be purpose driven. We use the word almost kind of
really casual, you know, your organization, you know, we want
purpose driven instead. And I use that as well, you
know, in my literature. But the question is, how do you
(16:04):
become purpose driven, whether it's in your business, whether
it's in your organization without first understanding that
purpose for your own self. Do you have a purpose?
You can't be purpose driven if you don't have a purpose.
Your own self is when your purpose aligns with your
organizational purpose that you're able to be purpose driven
because that comes with its own set of values.
(16:26):
And that is that alignment. And that's why you find
sometimes, you know, leaders become really disengaged and
dissatisfied because they are inorganizations that does not
reflect their values. They're struggling.
So how do you drive change or sustainable change where
actually you are in a place you don't really believe in or you
don't really believe that actually what they're what
(16:47):
they're doing or what they're saying, you know, has a
purposeful impact. So purpose in a sense, let's
just even just dive into that purpose is what gives your life
a meaning. That's from the personal
perspective. We can use that and say purpose
is what gives meaning to any organization.
So when we talk about how can leaders live, you know, actually
(17:10):
live through their daily actionsis being able to understand what
is it that gives them that meaning and then align it with
their true values and their trueactions.
Body of work that has connected purpose with resilience as well,
but I know that's not what we'retalking about, but I just
thought I would share how important having that purpose
(17:32):
gets you through the challenges.So you know, when I say the
resilience, you have your own purpose and if you're able to
align it with the business or the organization purpose, then
through the ups and downs, you know you have a goal.
And so that helps to go. So thanks for sharing that.
So have you seen companies, organizations succeed by linking
their purpose to employee engagement or sustainability or
(17:56):
other business outcomes? Would you share?
Well, yes, yes, I, I once coached a company in the energy
sector that moved from that whole compliance driven
sustainability to purpose drivenleadership because we can comply
and then we sit and tick the boxbecause you know, whether people
are engaging or not, you will never know.
And, and people have sat there and disengaged because really
(18:21):
the, the emphasis has always been that whole kind of
compliance. As long as people were in
compliance, then they felt that things were moving.
But when they actually moved from that strategy to a more
purpose driven sustainability, purpose driven leadership, they
really began to to see that their employees bought into that
(18:43):
kind of Co creation because that's really what it's about.
Yeah. So a leader, you're not, you're
not, you're not there to do it on your own.
And that's where earlier on I talked about the connection.
It's about that Co creation. What are we creating together?
That's what brings about those sustainable, sustainable goals.
It gives. Well, in my, in my case, working
(19:04):
with them, it brought about thatsense of ownership.
You see, when your employees have that sense of ownership,
it's a win win. It's a win win.
You don't have to work too hard because they're in that Co
creation process with you and inturn organization recognizing
their efforts as well. So the engagement was was, was,
(19:25):
you know, skyrocketed. They could actually see the
difference that their people were contributing to something
that was bigger than themselves.And that's what purpose does.
Purpose is bigger than us. That's the that's the bigger
picture. So it's not about us or it's not
about you as a leader. It's something that is bigger
than you. And that's why we need others in
(19:47):
that purpose driven leadership. Approach the challenge is
compliance may come from a government, but there is always
a reason why a government will bring in compliance.
And so we have a lot of companies that may be caught up
in that or we are doing it because we have to comply.
But there is a purpose behind it.
And this is where the leader have to be able to communicate
that if you if you move that government company compliance,
(20:11):
you have employees where they may be doing things, but they
don't even know why they're doing, they don't know the
purpose why they're doing it. That's right.
That's right. That's the why I mean that
that's you've nailed it there. You know, you've absolutely
nailed it. You know, it's almost like when
you say to a child, when you sayto a child, do this, what do
they say? Why?
Yeah. And then as adults, we get very
(20:31):
upset. What do you mean just do it?
Just get on with it. And they're probably thinking,
well, no, I know I'm going to doit, but you tell me what the why
is. And you're absolutely spot on.
And at least and some leaders fail to do that.
But actually, when you take timeand helping people to understand
the why and bringing that purpose into it comes back into
(20:53):
the patience and bringing about that connection, People will go
that extra mile for you or for any organization.
Once you're able to help them connect with why they do what
they do, it makes sense. If it doesn't make sense, well.
Exploring the next segment around feedback.
So in my own career experience, I think it was probably about
(21:16):
eight years ago or maybe 7 yearsago where I had the opportunity
to be exposed to three, we call it 360 feedback, where I
received feedback from my peers,I received feedback from my line
managers, and then I received feedback from extended customers
that I don't work today, today. And I've still got a copy of
(21:38):
that 360 feedback. And fortunately, I've been able
to work on the areas of improvement acknowledging.
And so I share my story to show how important feedback is.
But quite frankly, I am saying nicely now at the very start, I
remember when I received that 360 feedback within the first
two weeks, I just couldn't open it, you know, so haven't shared
(22:00):
my own struggle. Why is feedback cetera
struggling? Confidence.
Do you know, it's one of those things, isn't it really?
Because most leaders, I mean, we're bringing it because we're
talking about leadership, but most people in general were
never taught. They were never taught how to
give feedback. I mean, when was the last time
you went to, you went to UD, youdid your PhD, Who sat you down?
(22:20):
I mean, I do leadership courses and and programs.
So I bring this as one of the core subject matter because I
know it is very, very hard to understand what that feed, but
nobody really sat you down and go, this is how you give
feedback. You found yourself in those
situation and then you quickly learnt then has often been tied
to criticism. And that's why most people
(22:42):
struggle and most organizations struggle.
And interesting enough, there isthe right way to give feedback.
What is back again to that? You know, having that mindset
shift that feedback isn't about criticism.
Feedback is about growth. You see, when we understand
that, then it makes it so much easier.
Maybe if you invited somebody toyour office or you know, a
(23:04):
leader was, was going to give, you know, an appraisal and they,
they, they started right and say, OK, these are the things
you've done wrong. They actually started with the
things they've done right. With praise.
You can you say it's not feedback or a thank you?
Thank you so much, Enoch, for the things you've done in the
past 12 months. I really appreciate it.
However, there are certain areasthat I know that perhaps you
(23:25):
need help, perhaps you need support.
Could we look at it together? Did that sound like, like, like
right feedback? It is feedback.
There is an empowering tone. There's an empowering language
that has been attached to that that allows people to feel I'm
not a failure. I'm not all bad.
It's something good inside of me, you know, So, so that's
(23:46):
really so that's always the challenge.
So there's a right way that readers need to kind of reframe
feedback and see feedback as a gift.
You know, it is, it is a gift, but it's also about companies,
organization, creating the rightenvironment for that feedback to
to really take root and be seen as growth.
(24:06):
Because if you think about the 360 and of course people have to
rank you. And then people got some people
have gotten really upset and notspoke and not spoken to their to
their colleagues. Because if they find that you
said that about me, how could you have said that about me?
You know, people get really, really upset.
So people that are afraid to actually be honest.
So it's an interesting, it's an interesting 1.
(24:27):
So being able to understand thatactually it's it's a gift.
It's about care, it's about clarity and feedback also can be
an act of respect. And it's not necessarily about
that rejection of feeling rejected.
But having said that, you know there is there's much work to be
(24:47):
done in this area. Yeah, now that's in my instance,
it was anonymous, but it's so interesting where even though it
was anonymous, you still have the mindset and.
And, and yes, I mean, I know this time, but I, I had a
coachee, you know, in senior leadership who had his 360.
And do you know, it left a scar?Yeah.
(25:08):
He was, he felt it was very unfair, the way that he'd been
rated. And he never recovered.
Never. No, he never recovered because
it was there was some really hurtful things and perhaps the
way it was communicated that that for months he suffered a
real lack of self-confidence andand self esteem.
So, you know, yes, we're, we're,we're, we're, you know, there's
a funny side to that as well. But the reality is that it is
(25:32):
something that organization ought to take seriously.
We need to leaders need to learnhow to give proper feedback that
is empowering, but not destroy the person that is receiving
that feedback. Thanks for sharing that.
I mean, it's so important. So what coaching tools do you
recommend to help leaders give feedback that's engaging and not
(25:55):
exhausting like what we've just talked about, where it can be
damaging, but. There's all sorts of coaching
and that I could recommend. I mean you got the SBI model,
which is the situation behavior impact that's of often a really
great starting point and it kindof keeps that feedback
objective. It keeps it constructive and but
also, you know, it is asking before you give that feedback,
(26:17):
it's always a good idea to say, are you open to some feedback?
Ask because then you are laying the foundation.
People might be anxious and you can settle them before you
actually give that feedback. Are you, or you could say, are
you open to some feedback that may make you grow?
Can you see that's a different, it's a different approach to are
you open to some feedback? And then they have all these
preconceived idea what you're going to say.
(26:38):
But when you bring that growth element, we're going back to
that the why. Remember, when people know why
you, they, they, they, they are receiving that feedback or why
the feedback could be negative, then you are equipping them to
understand and what needs to happen for them to go on to that
next level. So feedback with the sense of
(26:59):
growth and helping them makes itfar more, you know, worthwhile
and enjoyable process and it invites engagement, not
resistance. And that's really important.
Also, leaders must, must, must understand where were they?
Sometimes we're quick to, to to criticize or we're quick to find
fault. But one of the things that keeps
(27:20):
me grounded is even if I want toshare, you know, a feedback, I
always remember when, what was that like 10 years ago?
What was that like? Because it's easy to go, you
should have done this and you should have done that.
And I take a back step almost in, in that sense of humility
and go, well, I'm going to minute joy.
You know, when you were at that stage, you weren't, you weren't
doing that. So you take a backstage to bring
(27:41):
that intuitive goal. Actually, they've done well
because when I was there, you know, I was perhaps doing the
same thing. But sometimes, because we have
grown as leaders, we almost forget that we were once there
as well. So that's also that reminder
brings that empathetic approach,you know, to the.
Feedback, I don't know who said it, but said the only person who
(28:01):
has never made a mistake is someone who hasn't tried
something new. So when people are trying
something new, it might be a newly promoted supervisor or a
leader or any new field. Yes, we should be able to have
the grace and the humility that we probably started from Samuel.
So thanks for sharing that. So as a final area for the
(28:22):
people team or the human resource team listening, what is
the first thing they can do today to fix the top?
That's a really great question. I would say start with the
mirror work. It's an interesting that mirror
that mirror work and that mirrorwork is about helping to
createspace for senior leaders to look at themselves.
(28:42):
Because we back to what we were saying earlier.
We can get carried away thinkingwe know it all or we don't want
to be seen as not having all theanswers.
So that mirror effect is let letyou know, create a space for for
leaders. And this is what we do in
coaching because I have, you know, a lot of leadership
programs. We, we have that space for
reflection to, to, to look at themselves.
(29:03):
You know, that could be a starting, you know, a starting
point, which I could also maybe run a leadership cultural audit,
assessing the culture, you know,within the organization or, or
the culture within their leadership.
And this is where coaching becomes a really, really
powerful tool because coaching can kind of help surface some of
(29:24):
those blind spots as well. Many executive teams, you know,
they think that they're aligned with purpose, they're aligned
with people, but actually their impact tells a different story.
It's all about impact. How am I impacting me?
How am I impacting and influencing those around me?
How often do leaders ask themselves those questions?
Because when you think how am I impacting those, that's brings
(29:46):
in emotional intelligence. You are aware of how you're
robbing other people and you're rubbing up the right way or the
wrong way. What impact am I having?
And HR also, you know, must be brave to, to, to speak that
truth as well and guide leaders to who they need to be.
And that's really, really important.
So when I do a lot of work with leaders, I bring in emotional
(30:07):
intelligence. That is one of the, to me, it's
one of the best things ever. When leaders have that emotional
intelligence now, they are readyto align not only with purpose,
but they're able to understand that vision and lead with
vision, lead with integrity and be purpose driven.
Good. Yeah, thanks.
So perhaps as a final opportunity, if you have AHR
(30:28):
people person culture who is very keen on taking up the
opportunity. So for example, if I use my own
experience where through the sponsored coaching, the
leadership experience where let's say it was about, was it 8
weeks or so? I'm curious to know what is the
typical time frame if HR team would like to book for
(30:50):
leadership for teams, what are the typical time frame?
Is it six weeks, six months, 12 months?
If you can give some insight as to their coaching and their
leadership. It it varies.
It varies. We've got we got nine week prior
programs, we got 12 week programs and this is weekly.
And what that does interesting enough in terms of having that
external, you know, in terms of having a coach, it means that HR
(31:14):
don't feel they have to do it all.
And sometimes when something is within some Lisa don't either
take it seriously because they just they might just take the
box or they're afraid to unveil certain things because they
think it's going to be held against them or they're going to
appear too vulnerable. But when they come to people,
somebody like me as a coach, we're able to really dig deep,
but bring about that reflective purposes, that reflective
(31:37):
practices that allows them and also give them the tools.
So they're coming into a space of non judgement and they're
bringing them that their authentic self because that is
where the growth lies and helping them to harness the
growth mindset. So we have programs and I would
say, you know the 12 weeks program is always a starting
point because it brings them into alignment with helping them
(32:00):
create that platform where they can have the space to to develop
their own leadership style and to understand the leader they
are becoming. That's huge.
Thank you to Joy for your time, for blessing with your time, but
incredible insight from mindset to purpose to all the areas that
we've looked at. So if listeners want to find
(32:21):
more of your work, where can they find you?
So yes, well, there's, there's, there's two ways.
You can go to www.joytransformationcoach.com
or you can go to WWJTIL got Academy.
So we've got our Academy programs.
I talked about vision, integrity, purpose.
We've got our which is VIP. So we have our VIP leadership
(32:43):
approach. That is one of the things that
bringing aspiring leaders or leaders who really want to be
grounded in their purpose. So that's the program that we we
run for them. Or if they want to come into the
coaching space that of course, you know, joy transformation
coaching helps them in their ownpersonal and professional
development. So you can, you can, you can
find one, of course, on ThinkingJoy, OK Hartfield or JT
(33:07):
International Leadership Academy.
We have a page on Lincoln as well where you can sign up to
receive our newsletters on leadership matters.
And yeah, so we can, we can connect, you know, your spaces.
That's great, Joy. I'll put the links.
I'll take the links from Joy andI'll put in a description.
So if you are listening or watching this, it should be
easier to access if you look to the links.
(33:28):
So yeah, thanks once again, Joy.Wow.
Well, thank you so much. This has been absolutely
incredible. And you are also, so thank you.
Thanks for the feedback.
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