July 29, 2025 • 36 mins
Summary
In this conversation, Kremena Yordanova discusses the importance of self-empowerment in decision-making and the need to utilize one's skills for a greater purpose beyond profit. She emphasizes the significance of engaging in meaningful conversations and recognizing where to invest personal resources.
Guest Bio
Today’s guest is Kremena Yordanova — a practical, purpose-driven fractional CMO who went from managing ship banks and guest safety as a cruise purser to spending 17 years leading teams at Adidas and Reebok. Born in the Balkans, raised for a few wild years in Siberia, and now based in Amsterdam, Kremena blends big-brand strategy with the wisdom of yoga and conscious leadership. She helps brands grow with soul — and she does it with integrity, humor, and heart. Contact:
www.kremenayordanova.com
www.linkedin.com/in/kremena-yordanova
Takeaways
We often seek permission from unqualified sources.
Self-decision is crucial for personal growth.
Engaging in meaningful conversations can enhance our lives.
Utilizing skills for a greater good is essential.
Profit isn't the only measure of success.
Feeling alive in conversations is a key indicator of purpose.
We should pour our resources into what truly matters.
Recognizing our skills can lead to better opportunities.
The right side of feeling good is about alignment with values.
Personal empowerment leads to more fulfilling experiences.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Sustainable Leadership
02:44 Kremena's Journey and Experiences
05:02 The Importance of Integrity in Leadership
07:08 Cultural Influences on Leadership
09:41 Adaptability in Leadership
11:51 Scaling with Soul
14:03 The Balance of Passion and Sustainability
16:10 Mentorship and Leadership Development
18:32 Feedback and Consumer Insights
20:35 Building Brands with Purpose
22:58 Conclusion and Call to Action
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Sometimes we ask for permission from places that do not need to
give you that permission. You're the only one that needs
to decide like, oh, where would I like to pour my energy and,
and knowledge and, and resourcesreally to answer a very short
question. Long as in those moments where,
where, where you know that you feel alive.
Having conversations like this is like not just on the dinner
(00:21):
table with your friends, but maybe with more people that you
haven't met yet. And just to make sense of it so
that you are like, OK, I want tobe on the right side of feeling
good about my skills being utilized for something better
and bigger. And it's not always profit that
we have in mind. Welcome to Sustainability
(00:45):
Transformations podcast, where we explore bold ideas to drive a
sustainable change for people, the community and business.
Today's guest is criminal Yoda Nova Fractional CMO, who blends
global brand strategy with conscious leadership.
With a career that started from C and expanded to leading teams
in Adidas and Reebok, she now supports brands to scale with
(01:08):
empathy and impact. And the core goal of our
conversation is to explore what it really means to lead and grow
with integrity in today's fast moving, mission driven business.
Carmina, thank you for joining us.
Your journey spans cruise ships,global brands and so centered
retreats. What's one life experience that
(01:30):
has shaped how you now define sustainable leadership?
Well, thanks for having me firstand foremost, and for
pronouncing my name absolutely correctly.
That's that's a first win. Honestly, there were so many
experiences, experiences in my life, you know, And it's a
massive cliche to say every experience bring you closer to
the person you always wanted to be or you knew you would be.
(01:52):
But kind of, it's true. I've started my career quite
early. I had to leave my country of
origin. I'm Bulgarian and back then it
was very difficult to find a space where you can really
explore all your skills. So I had to leave the country
quite young and the first opportunity was on the cruise
ship. And even there I must admit that
(02:15):
it was so fascinating how everything we were doing was
meant to not pull the oceans. And I was fascinated by the
detail that we had to undertake because they were rules and they
are embedded things that are just practices.
And it's took stood out because I was thinking before our
(02:36):
conversation, how many of those things we simply forget in our
normal routines, in our normal different versions of careers
that we think that wow, we'll wait till we can change
something when they asked us to do so.
So there were many moments in mycareer where I would say, wow, I
really need to live with integrity and my values need to
(02:57):
be met. Yeah, I spend a lot of time
talking about how you can craft that for yourself, how it's not
a privilege only, but it's a must for more people to be able
to use their skills for bigger goals and bigger ideas that are
benefiting more the community rather than just your own kind
of egoistic or kind of career ladder progression.
(03:20):
For his first experience on the cruise ships really helped me to
see, wow, we can do things differently.
Of course, it's it comes with a bag of different challenges
there, but it it really opened my mind about, well, nothing
goes to waste. You really, really need to be
careful that we are not polluting the oceans.
And funnily enough, I spent almost 20 years with a company
(03:41):
that was in the field of sports goods industry and biggest
campaign is like run for the oceans.
We'd added us to very recently. I was part of their teams and it
just all comes together in a very funny way.
In a funny way that you just never know when you will be
putting one step at the time, what type of knowledge you'll be
(04:02):
bringing to brands that simply don't have the resources yet or
simply need to be thinking of how they promote their services
and products differently. So I would say that every year
you would kind of do your best to craft something that is
valuable, not for the sake of, Oh my God, look at me, I'm so
valuable, but for the sake of how much of that you can
(04:24):
optimize later on in life. Yeah.
So it wasn't one, but I can, I can think of a clear moment when
I've decided to step away from corporate because it wasn't
sustainable for me at that stageanymore.
To be leading these massive teams and to be doing a
fractional roles was a moment when I I was asked to be a judge
on a competition for social entrepreneurship with a hold
(04:48):
price, which I'm heading back for a third year now in a month
and I'm super excited. And everyone was there with the
same mission of changing the world and making sure that they
are putting resources, ideas, skills to really change things
that are for the better, not just for the environment, which
is something we spoke before recording.
(05:10):
When we think of sustainability,we often think only the
environment or climate, but there is so much more depth into
the conversations that we have. It's how we lead, it's how we
make sure that it's not only forthe profit because the future
depends on definitely the solutions we'll put forward.
So that moment when I was asked to both judge and also be mentor
(05:32):
really changed my mind. I was like, wow, I felt so alive
doing something that I believe in.
And then it clicked like, why wouldn't I do this all the time?
Sometimes we ask for permission from places that do not need to
give you that permission. You're the only one that needs
to decide like, oh, where would I like to pour my energy and,
and knowledge and, and resources?
Really. Yeah.
(05:53):
I think to answer a very short question long, I think it's in
those moments where, where, where you know that you feel
alive. Having conversations like this
is like not just on the dinner table with your friends, but
maybe with more people that you haven't met yet.
And just to make sense of it so that you are like, OK, I want to
be on the right side of feeling good about my skills being
(06:15):
utilized for something better and bigger.
And it's not always profit that we have in mind.
Yeah. I'm very pleased we'll be
exploring those aspects of sustainable leadership because
there is a trend of when people complete education or university
looking for career and then after a few years of the career,
(06:38):
yes, there is the money. And then after a while there is
a knock on the door about what is the meaning of this?
What is the purpose of this, which internally that knock on
the door starts to ask very uncomfortable questions.
And you know, I'm glad you've been able to walk through.
So hopefully some of the listeners can relate to that.
But in a sustainability space, there is now a surfacing of
(06:59):
burnout. And I think some of the things
you mentioned is to deal with sometimes they could just be
delivering, reporting compliance, but a year, two, 3-4
years down the line and four years is the average chain of
sustainability leaders when compared to other leaders is
maybe six years or more. So yeah, what kind of highlight
(07:20):
is there is an embedded challenge.
So be good to explore those aspects.
So you lived in the, as you mentioned in the Balkans,
Siberia and now Amsterdam, if I'm right.
How has that cultural mosaic shaped your leadership lens?
I often don't get the chance to think about my upbringing
because you get so embedded intothe new culture that you are.
(07:43):
And I've been in the Netherlandsfor 20 years.
But definitely the pragmatism from the Balkans comes through
sometimes in my leadership because in the beginning I would
highly and very, very consciously will translate
literally what some of the wisdom from my country will
bring into any conversation. And then of course it falls
(08:04):
because it it, it, it doesn't belong to the difference.
I would say that striving and like and and making sure that
people understand that there is deeper knowing into settling
into. I'll give you the example.
For instance, in my language, when we speak of leader, it
means like through your hands, like Roku Bodia and you're
(08:26):
trying to explain it and you're trying to say like, wow,
funnily, but we use different parts of the body to express
something that is different, butit means the same.
And because I was practicing always yoga, speaking about
somatic leadership and all of that.
And even these little differences of trying to explain
or not trying to explain, but just saying like, you know, you,
(08:48):
you show, you show people how todo some things.
Because let's not forget that way before we were using only
our brains. And now even with the technology
that is coming, we will usually,we will not be able to even use
the brain as much as we, we, we,we count it all.
It was through hands like leaders back in the days were
showing things and were leading in that manner.
(09:10):
And it's took it stood out in our, in our language.
And when you come here, you're trying to to be.
I was trying for the longest time to fit in person foremost
before I got the chance to lead teams the way.
I've always thought it was the right way.
I was lucky enough to have amazing leaders.
And I think role models are extremely important because then
(09:33):
you can fit in your own narrative of wow, I would want
to be experiencing my leadershipin this manner.
And then of course, you can get the chance to cross check it
with your own team and trust is a big thing so that you can
bring your knowledge into a completely different
environment. I had more than 60 nationalities
in the office that we were leading here like we were we
(09:55):
were having here. And that comes with a a lot of
knowledge that everyone brings and a lot of misunderstanding of
how we communicate, how we lead,how we Co create together.
But I would say that what I bring is this pragmatic way of
thinking. And it's some people in the
beginning would call me that Shenever, we never know if she
thinks this or things that because in Bulgarian actually,
(10:16):
when we say yes and when we say no, it's completely different
and it confuses people. Even the non verbal
communication. They're like, why you
disagreeing with me? And in my head I'm like, I was
totally agreeing with you. But that's one of these funny
things where you would be on thecall.
Before that we were in or in meetings, not in calls.
And people have the understanding that she
(10:37):
completely disagrees with my proposal.
And I'm like, no, I was actuallycompletely agreeing with you.
So even this small, small changeof like yes is no, no is yes
verbally and non verbally with your signals.
And now when I go back home is the opposite is true.
They will be like, oh, she agrees or she disagrees.
And I'm like, OK, you need to code switch a little bit to be
(10:58):
able to be understood. But I would say the yes and no.
And the world leadership throughhands gestures means was the one
that stands out because it's very easy to remember.
You know one of the areas you'vementioned is about being able to
adapt from a leadership in sustainability.
How critical do you think it is for leaders to be able to adapt?
(11:19):
Perhaps I can give you a context.
There is numerous stories about how Blockbuster was not able to
adapt enough and Netflix even went to Blockbuster for them to
buy early days and they didn't, you know, go to a whole list of
these companies. So what would you say your
experience about being able to adapt from different cultures is
so important? You mean for brands or overall?
(11:41):
Because adaptability is going tobe the skill that we all need to
not just anchor in our being, but really master.
If before we were having changesevery six months or every three
years or anything like that. Now it's like every month if if
not every week, something new ispopping up for our attention.
And I think that the most valuable skill is this
(12:02):
adaptability, but not triggered from the next shiny thing.
If anything, we will need to have adaptability rooted in
calmness, rooted in a, OK, I seewhat's happening.
I see where we're going with this.
And we are not going to change our strategy or adopt it just
because everyone else is doing it.
(12:23):
The fear there is that because it's happening so fast, we will
be exhausting our leadership or we were exhausting the people
that we leading. Oh, today is this, tomorrow is
that, oh, now we are, you know, plastic free.
Tomorrow we are this more aware that like it can create a lot of
adaptability, yes, but adaptability rooted in in in the
(12:43):
calm, knowing that this will work because we've done our
homework. I think that will be super
important. The only way to to to adopt is
really to immerse yourself. The way I moved countries and
embedded myself in different cultures was exactly, I think
when you're younger, it's kind of easier to be honest and, and,
(13:05):
and, and you get to, to see how you operate in a different
environment. But adaptability needs to come
very, very, we need to upskill many of our folks that work with
us, but it starts with also us. Like what are the new skills
that we need to acquire so that we get the chance to know, OK,
this is useful. This might go this way we might
(13:27):
be wrong completely about some of the our assumptions.
Are we putting a lot of how can I say we're putting a lot of
trust that the future will be bright at least every time I go
go to events is the 2 the two clubs like we're doomed.
Nothing good is coming. I'm, I'm more optimistic, even
though I'm very pragmatic and very like, we have lots of work
(13:47):
to do, but I definitely feel that the adaptability that we
need to acquire needs to be rooted in calmness and see the
bigger picture that we get to decide how we want to paint it.
It's, it's really, really crucial.
It's high time it's, it's not just words that we are putting
loosely out there. We, we, we can optimize our
(14:10):
skills to be finding solutions for really fundamental issues
that we have in our societies. Not to think that, oh, let's
leave it to the next generation to worry about, or let's leave
it to the 2-3, whatever generations or God forbid, we
just all decide we're going to go to Mars and that's, that's
it. We are, we're fine like that.
I think we're living in a very interesting times where we have
(14:33):
much more responsibility with that adaptability than we can
quote UN quote handle. And then we can choose how we
want to handle it. You can either do your steps
towards it, or you can just ignore the problem and it can
become much bigger. Yeah, thanks for sharing that.
So what does scaling with SO mean to you practically?
(14:53):
Which one is scaling? Scaling with soul with a soul
aspect, yeah. It's when you know that you're
leading with integrity, when youknow that the product you put
out there, the campaigns you're running or anything, that you
are literally as a marketeers. We have the power to be changing
peoples minds with the art we'reputting out there.
I believe that marketing is in this intersection between, yes,
(15:16):
we can change cultures because we putting art out there.
And I know that many of us don'tfeel like we're artists in in in
corporates, but eventually that's it.
You have the power to move people's emotions and hopefully
actions. The same way we can push people
to click on this button and buy the next pair of shoes, we also
can make a change within them sothat they can actually, you
(15:40):
know, nothing else is left. According to me, it's like the
soul is the last thing we have because it first was like, oh
wow, we we can optimize everything and automate
everything. And now even the intellectual
work can be outsourced to other type of technologies and what's
left? That's why I kind of cheeky call
it like scaling with soul, meaning that can you sit with
(16:05):
yourself and that deeper knowingthat at night I've done nothing
that either hurts the environment or makes someone,
you know, quote UN quote, sufferfrom my decisions.
You sit well with your soul and you can go with soul, you can go
with guidelines, you can go withdinner knowing whatever your
belief system is. But I put their soul because
(16:25):
it's like we hear this like it'ssoulless or soulless in
societies and it's like, yeah, well, how do we bring that back?
What keeps you kind of really alive?
What type of businesses you wantto see out there that are
helping rather than harming? I would say that anyone that
gets the chance to do the work that they're best at and knowing
(16:46):
that they can sit there with themselves at night not having
any, any question of like, how is my soul feeling like, you
know, when something is off, it will manifest with, I don't
know, minor diseases or things like that.
And you will notice that I'm notquite OK with how I'm leading
my, my, my life. And I'm a big believer that the
(17:08):
bodies are always telling us all, the, all the truth.
And we are just like giving a chance to catch up with those
signals. Yeah, I would say that's, that's
super important to me because I've been on both sides to know
like what it's like to do something that you really,
really love. And that is something that you,
your whole mind, soul and body is into.
(17:30):
And I've also been like, oh, wow, what do I need to do to,
quote UN quote, survive? And both have have its base.
It's not that 1 is better than the other.
It's just a matter of like, OK, where?
Where do you want to sit on thatspectrum?
Yeah. Yeah, thanks for sharing.
I think it's nice to see how to notice when is that tipping
point where you are growing its purpose.
(17:51):
I think someone quoted saying once you find what you love, you
stop working for the rest of your life.
You know, meaning you just excited, passionate about, you
know, whichever challenge that you're doing so.
That actually is also, I wanted to mention that it's, it's such
a, it's a very nice privilege to, to find that, that passion
(18:11):
and that. But I would say that's only one
part of it because you still need to be able to go for it.
And you might have a lot of preconceived ideas of how it's
going to look like. If I'm only mentoring for 2-3
years, how is that going to looklike on my CV or any of those
decisions? Just because you love something,
you always have to also be able to say like, yeah, it sits well
(18:33):
with me. I shouldn't care what others
think. And vice versa on like there is
the danger because you love something so much.
I see it with many of my founders.
They're so mono focused on bringing this product out there
and sometimes it is to the decrement of their own
well-being. And that's really breaks my soul
because it's like, you're so much more valuable if you take
(18:54):
care of yourself just because you love this, this, this
project that you're putting out there, You need to be
immediately like brought back toit's, it's still work and it's a
lot of work. And because you love it, you
might fall into the other opposite of saying like, I'm
going to like push through it because the the mission is too
(19:16):
big. And you mentioned about, you
know, burnouts in, in sustainability or like the
turnover of it's very scary because because you wouldn't,
you wouldn't know when, when youneed to reposition yourself in,
in, in this ground and calm manner to say, like, I care
about this so much that I will not exhaust myself because I
(19:38):
need to be there for the long run.
The, the mission that I'm quote,UN quote, fighting for
fulfilling for is so important to me that I need to be there
for much longer than the four years you mentioned because
titles change, but the body of work you're putting out there
can sustain. I, I think it's a trap when we,
(19:58):
when we think that just because we love something, we can get
high on it so much that it's like, Oh, we need to be careful
to be able so to take good care of ourselves, especially because
we like that what we do and no one teaches us that usually we,
we get to get to learn those lessons when we are like on the
3rd 4th burnout. And that's something I I really.
(20:22):
I, I really dislike because it's, it's a long time to, to
get back to where you want to beable to operate.
But this brings us to the conversation of why we need to
even exhaust ourselves like that.
Like keeping up with, with the environment that is not created
for us to do our best work. It's a massive responsibility
for us to, to take control over all the best work we can put
(20:44):
forward. It's from it.
Personally, I've toyed with the ideas of the difference between
success and fulfillment, and I focused on being more fulfilled
even though it may not be successful because the
fulfillment is more personal. I can look in the mirror and say
I am fulfilled with it even though in some external metrics
(21:04):
it might not be successful. So you know one of the tools
that I personally use in order to get the impact.
But I'm curious to know, you work as a fractional CMO, so how
do you intervene or help companies to blend that
profitability with purpose? Is it at the very start or is it
a more reactive way of correcting?
(21:28):
It's both ways. Sometimes clients come to me
saying like we need to reposition, we need to do things
from, from a different lens, making it, let's say, profitable
for the right reasons. Because obviously if you have a
business, it's, it's important to stay true to the cause and
the cause can be very profitablewhen you know what you're doing.
And I'm not saying that not everyone knows what they're
(21:49):
doing. I'm just saying that it's a
required senior leadership for areason, because you can
translate that vision to all thedepartments and everyone that is
involved in touching all touch points for the consumer.
So there are two ways. It's much easier I find in my
practice that you take a brand and you build it from the ground
up, from all the ingredients to be there than to revive.
(22:13):
So to say something that maybe has some legacy, has some
internal things that need to be tweaked in order for it to
succeed. And then I come into a play
where I I only work with impact brands.
I only work with brands that's really have done the exercise of
(22:33):
excavating their values and theyalign with mine and and then
it's a match made in heaven, so to say, because there is no,
it's almost like a creation. It's, it's a matter of like,
I'll bring the knowledge from a Fortune 500 towards your brands
and we'll do it with integrity and we'll do it with the the
best professionals out there. I often get the chance to invite
(22:58):
cooperators to strengthen the team.
And then it's like you have a formula that you know it will
benefit your client and you theycan see results much faster than
normally. They will get more, maybe more
junior person. And similar to what you
described the CM OS, they don't have the good reputation.
We are also on rotation very, very easily because it's like
(23:21):
everyone thinks they know how todo marketing and everyone thinks
that marketing is the problem for everything in a company.
Or at least we have this like notion.
But what it is exciting about itis that you get to build
something that is there to last.You're not distracted by what's
the next big, big thing and or you bring marketing that is
(23:41):
rooted in the values of the company.
So well because you've done yourexercise the same way that the
companies you work for are doingtheir.
Yeah, my values are like this. They'll come across like that.
And then execution of those campaigns is something that I'm
very passionate about because weall have big strategies.
But then you need to be there with the team to see how this
(24:02):
will come to life. And we spoke also about
adaptability. It's good to be there to see
when you have to be adaptable and when it's just a matter of
like you haven't given it enoughtime to kick in.
Results come with consistent effort and that consistent
effort it's, it's really you need to be able to see also the
results of your work, not for years and years, but like you
(24:25):
put foundations that it will benefit the, the the brands for
years more to come. No matter what is the next new
thing. You just build their foundations
either from start or reposition it.
We don't intend to be lasting. I don't work with brands that
want to be there for 2-3 years and then exit for instance, or
then I would argue most likely the solution you have out there
(24:48):
is not either needed or or yeah,it's something that it's maybe
not if I would not see it that people use it in three years, I
usually don't engage. But yeah, I hope that that's
your question. Absolutely.
You know, as you mentioned, thought that came to mind was
hopefully I will say properly, but to every hammer the problem
(25:08):
is a nail or to every nail the solution is a hammer.
So sometimes I find within the sustainability being able to
think outside the box or in other way.
I said to me sometimes when you're looking for the solution
to be A or B is mostly the answer is actually AC or AD.
But because you're so focused onA&B, you can think outside it.
(25:29):
So I think that relates with what you mentioned about the CMO
because it's your field and you're so passionate about it,
it's easy TO0IN without perhaps seeing from a different coin.
So that's good. Yeah, absolutely.
And you need to be able to. It's such a humbling position
also because I think I think youwill notice immediately if it
(25:54):
works or not with few consistentactions.
And then the customer or the consumer is the, the final judge
of like, Oh yeah, do we get you?Do we understand what, what this
intends to do? Do we see through the, the
glossy campaigns and we can findout what you do else in the, I
don't know, in society that is we agree or we disagree with, or
(26:16):
do we portray the brand as intended?
Or are people extremely, extremely tired of all this
constant noise and they can't even make a choice because we,
we pressure them to make the choice Now by now, by now, it's
like it's not about buying things.
It's about making sure that you have some, some need that we can
fulfill. And it's not about like us
(26:39):
trying to glorify things that are not true.
People are. So if given the chance, people
can see through many, many things.
And we, I, I enjoy creating campaigns that actually speak,
speak the truth. And then you empower your
customer or consumer to decide, yeah, it's very humbling because
sometimes you might, might find out that we were wrong.
(27:01):
And then again, I'd say we because it's never just one
decision. You, you, you need to be asking
a lot more questions to when youdo your consumer research and
they tell you something that maybe they don't follow through,
you're like, oh, yeah, we reallyhad to launch this product.
And then you see, it is like, oh, yeah, the research said so,
but the actuality of it is not true.
(27:21):
So you need to pivot. You need to be adaptable, as we
spoke about out of here. Yeah, it's.
Very, Yeah, that's good. Yeah.
Hopefully we can tease out aboutthe quality of seeking feedback.
And as you were speaking, I noticed about some stats where
what people or what customers and consumers are willing to pay
for sustainable brands is less than what they actually pay for
(27:44):
the concept of going back to thecustomer.
But what I'm keen to know, perhaps the question here is how
do you decipher from what a customer is saying that they
think they want? And perhaps if I can add an
another layer, Steve Jobs once said that sometimes you really
have to shoot the customer. Can you perhaps share some
insight as to the scale, the artof getting that feedback to
(28:06):
minimize the chances of war? But you're speaking about
visionary things like products that they, they, they couldn't
even imagine that can be either either created or be there, be
there for them. What we, what we do often, you
know, it's, it's just like all the other tech companies.
You can, you can launch things in the, in the PCD or you can,
(28:28):
you can test it if you have a wait list for those things.
Just need to be able to explain exactly what type of solution
you're creating at the moment. And easily you will notice.
Do people even resonate with themessage at the moment?
We can do AB testing all the time.
It's good that we have all thesetools on our disposal because
then we get signals that is like, not only they're willing
(28:50):
to get on the wait list, not only they're willing to tell us,
yes, we're going to pay between this, this and that.
And then you always need to put a ratio between like, OK, they
claim this, this and that. We have this database and then
see the results afterwards. If we have the demo, are they
purchasing for it? Are they willing to wait until
we produce it? Can we explain to people why it
(29:12):
takes so long? Can we be very transparent from
our side and then hoping that the response will be what we
aiming to do? And it comes from really asking
the right type of questions, sparking their curiosity so that
you can be able to say like, wow, we thought this is the
product they want. We ask them produce something
(29:32):
that they really is like the answer to all their questions or
the solution to all their questions.
Of course, otherwise you need toput a lot of money into
marketing, which is pouring and pouring and every CMO wants to
have tremendous budgets. But the reality is that when
things get tougher economy wise,you need to be even more
impactful or meant to be asked to be scrappier.
(29:53):
You're asked to be doing much more with less.
And a good way to do it is AB testing all the time and or some
of the things it's but also thisis where I say that it's art.
It's like you can abit has so many things, but there is
sometimes this knowing of like Iwonder if Steve Jobs was still
alive for being like, how would he know that we all needed a
freaking iPod back then. I didn't buy one because I was
(30:16):
never part of this. Like the cool crew, the trend
setters and all of that were thelate adopter to to the trends.
But you maybe know that there isalso this, like, if you have an
idea in your head and it comes and it just doesn't let you
sleep at night, most likely it'ssomething that needs to come
through you. And I would argue that many of
the visionary leaders have so many ideas like that and they
(30:39):
just had the ability to attract the right type of talent to push
that idea through. And marketeers like myself and
many other folks are enabling that to say, like, is this idea
really at the right time with the right type of audience, how
much they're willing to pay so that it's profitable enough so
that we can make something big? And I would say if you don't
(31:00):
want your idea, your idea might be big, but it's OK to also have
small just very good ideas. Because I just similar to you
when you speak of Steve Jobs or went like, I'm more fascinated
by someone that decided that it's very niche idea that will
change few lives, but it will change them fundamentally.
(31:21):
I'm I'm more much more, I'm moreI'm more excited about that.
And this could also be just likego playing smaller.
I sometimes think that we have this, we think big ideas and
scalability because more is more.
But sometimes if you are like now do smaller things way better
than anyone else, which is on. We just don't know how much more
(31:43):
effective that could be because we don't speak about the smaller
brands. We don't speak about the brands
that actually really are there for their customer day in and
day out. And part of part of my work is
also to allow those brands to have access to top notch
strategies rather than just the big brands with big marketing
(32:04):
working budgets. Yeah, yeah.
That's good. So how does your leadership
mentorship journey help to unlock opportunities and senior
executives or those who are building the brands?
So how does it help me to to to do that you mean?
Yeah. Perhaps you can share about how
your mentorship, Oh yeah, Jenny works and there might be a
(32:26):
listener who likes your incredible profile from the
Adidas to the Reebok. And so it's just of that
journey, yeah. For the mentorship, it's
extremely important to know, to know.
It's not like coaching, it's notlike different.
It's very different in a sense that you have someone that is on
your corner, but it's also brutally honest.
(32:48):
And most likely it's been through similar, you know,
challenges with other brands Andand how it changes is that I had
the opportunity now for the pasttwo years to be working in multi
facet and multi in different different industries because I
had the chance to work for one brand or two brands for the
longest time. And that gave me the opportunity
(33:09):
to gain a lot of access to information and know how, but
only one industry. And then I had this opportunity
to branch out and do multiple industries with the lens of
impact on the less of social entrepreneurs.
And then when we come to speak with one another for mentorship
is like, OK, depending on how senior the brand is or the, the,
(33:31):
the, the entity that is being created, It's super important to
be supported, you know, all parts of it because what type of
mentorship you would require in the beginning is very different
than when you're scaling up. I'll provide the the service of
being there for the founder and the idea that needs to grow and
it comes through trusting the process.
And the process is the most massive process you can think of
(33:53):
because many of the founders getto attach to their idea, to
attach to the business itself, to attach to the outcome of it
or what success would look like.And God forbid if they too early
get the funding and they're not prepared for it.
They need to be able to know howto optimize the resources that
they already have. The sheer amount of what it
takes to hold that when you get the bigger first funding.
(34:16):
I, I, I get goosebumps when I see founders getting their
fundings because it's like it would request you to work on a
very different level. And then what it means to go
with someone that actually knowswhat that feels like.
And I don't believe that we all have to be building massive
brands. As I mentioned to you, we just
need to be able to build brands that matter.
And I think that those are the people that I, I, I love working
(34:40):
with and mentoring and see them through all the aspects of their
business and not see it as like a mono single, single.
Oh yeah, I need, for instance, someone will come, can you
mentor me to, to hire my whole C-Suite?
That's fine. Do you even need AC suite?
Like there are so many more questions around that.
Like what will strengthen, you know, the, the entity you're
(35:01):
creating or the brand you're creating?
Because often with mentoring, it's you get the discussion in
one one, like you start a discussion on one topic and it
it turns out it's a completely different and it's a very
beautiful Co creation. I definitely love doing it with
multiple teams simultaneously because you also see the wave
(35:22):
of, oh wow, they're going with this.
And you have to be able to put their needs before anyone else's
because they might have a very different value on why they're
doing what they're doing. And you're there to strengthen
their ability to push it throughsustainably without burning out,
without hopefully taking decisions that will cost them
too much. And I'm not talking money, I'm
(35:42):
talking a lot more sleepless nights and so on and so forth.
Yeah, that's great. You know, Crimina, this was both
grounding and energizing. Where can listeners or those
watching go to learn more about your work?
I'm supposed to be more easily found on LinkedIn, so if anyone
(36:02):
feels called to connect with me,please drop me a message on
LinkedIn. If you want to be mentored by me
or simply want to have a conversation, it will be my
pleasure. And yeah, I'm mostly on
LinkedIn. I might not be the fast ones to
respond, I must admit, but I'm definitely mostly there, yeah.
(36:23):
Thanks for tuning into sustainable transformations.
Remember, the real transformation begins at the
intersection of integrity and action.
Also, until next time, please lead with purpose.
Thank you so much.
Sometimes we ask for permission from places that do not need to
give you that permission. You're the only one that needs
to decide like, oh, where would I like to pour my energy and,
and knowledge and, and resourcesreally to answer a very short
question. Long as in those moments where,
where, where you know that you feel alive.
Having conversations like this is like not just on the dinner
(00:21):
table with your friends, but maybe with more people that you
haven't met yet. And just to make sense of it so
that you are like, OK, I want tobe on the right side of feeling
good about my skills being utilized for something better
and bigger. And it's not always profit that
we have in mind. Welcome to Sustainability
(00:45):
Transformations podcast, where we explore bold ideas to drive a
sustainable change for people, the community and business.
Today's guest is criminal Yoda Nova Fractional CMO, who blends
global brand strategy with conscious leadership.
With a career that started from C and expanded to leading teams
in Adidas and Reebok, she now supports brands to scale with
(01:08):
empathy and impact. And the core goal of our
conversation is to explore what it really means to lead and grow
with integrity in today's fast moving, mission driven business.
Carmina, thank you for joining us.
Your journey spans cruise ships,global brands and so centered
retreats. What's one life experience that
(01:30):
has shaped how you now define sustainable leadership?
Well, thanks for having me firstand foremost, and for
pronouncing my name absolutely correctly.
That's that's a first win. Honestly, there were so many
experiences, experiences in my life, you know, And it's a
massive cliche to say every experience bring you closer to
the person you always wanted to be or you knew you would be.
(01:52):
But kind of, it's true. I've started my career quite
early. I had to leave my country of
origin. I'm Bulgarian and back then it
was very difficult to find a space where you can really
explore all your skills. So I had to leave the country
quite young and the first opportunity was on the cruise
ship. And even there I must admit that
(02:15):
it was so fascinating how everything we were doing was
meant to not pull the oceans. And I was fascinated by the
detail that we had to undertake because they were rules and they
are embedded things that are just practices.
And it's took stood out because I was thinking before our
(02:36):
conversation, how many of those things we simply forget in our
normal routines, in our normal different versions of careers
that we think that wow, we'll wait till we can change
something when they asked us to do so.
So there were many moments in mycareer where I would say, wow, I
really need to live with integrity and my values need to
(02:57):
be met. Yeah, I spend a lot of time
talking about how you can craft that for yourself, how it's not
a privilege only, but it's a must for more people to be able
to use their skills for bigger goals and bigger ideas that are
benefiting more the community rather than just your own kind
of egoistic or kind of career ladder progression.
(03:20):
For his first experience on the cruise ships really helped me to
see, wow, we can do things differently.
Of course, it's it comes with a bag of different challenges
there, but it it really opened my mind about, well, nothing
goes to waste. You really, really need to be
careful that we are not polluting the oceans.
And funnily enough, I spent almost 20 years with a company
(03:41):
that was in the field of sports goods industry and biggest
campaign is like run for the oceans.
We'd added us to very recently. I was part of their teams and it
just all comes together in a very funny way.
In a funny way that you just never know when you will be
putting one step at the time, what type of knowledge you'll be
(04:02):
bringing to brands that simply don't have the resources yet or
simply need to be thinking of how they promote their services
and products differently. So I would say that every year
you would kind of do your best to craft something that is
valuable, not for the sake of, Oh my God, look at me, I'm so
valuable, but for the sake of how much of that you can
(04:24):
optimize later on in life. Yeah.
So it wasn't one, but I can, I can think of a clear moment when
I've decided to step away from corporate because it wasn't
sustainable for me at that stageanymore.
To be leading these massive teams and to be doing a
fractional roles was a moment when I I was asked to be a judge
on a competition for social entrepreneurship with a hold
(04:48):
price, which I'm heading back for a third year now in a month
and I'm super excited. And everyone was there with the
same mission of changing the world and making sure that they
are putting resources, ideas, skills to really change things
that are for the better, not just for the environment, which
is something we spoke before recording.
(05:10):
When we think of sustainability,we often think only the
environment or climate, but there is so much more depth into
the conversations that we have. It's how we lead, it's how we
make sure that it's not only forthe profit because the future
depends on definitely the solutions we'll put forward.
So that moment when I was asked to both judge and also be mentor
(05:32):
really changed my mind. I was like, wow, I felt so alive
doing something that I believe in.
And then it clicked like, why wouldn't I do this all the time?
Sometimes we ask for permission from places that do not need to
give you that permission. You're the only one that needs
to decide like, oh, where would I like to pour my energy and,
and knowledge and, and resources?
Really. Yeah.
(05:53):
I think to answer a very short question long, I think it's in
those moments where, where, where you know that you feel
alive. Having conversations like this
is like not just on the dinner table with your friends, but
maybe with more people that you haven't met yet.
And just to make sense of it so that you are like, OK, I want to
be on the right side of feeling good about my skills being
(06:15):
utilized for something better and bigger.
And it's not always profit that we have in mind.
Yeah. I'm very pleased we'll be
exploring those aspects of sustainable leadership because
there is a trend of when people complete education or university
looking for career and then after a few years of the career,
(06:38):
yes, there is the money. And then after a while there is
a knock on the door about what is the meaning of this?
What is the purpose of this, which internally that knock on
the door starts to ask very uncomfortable questions.
And you know, I'm glad you've been able to walk through.
So hopefully some of the listeners can relate to that.
But in a sustainability space, there is now a surfacing of
(06:59):
burnout. And I think some of the things
you mentioned is to deal with sometimes they could just be
delivering, reporting compliance, but a year, two, 3-4
years down the line and four years is the average chain of
sustainability leaders when compared to other leaders is
maybe six years or more. So yeah, what kind of highlight
(07:20):
is there is an embedded challenge.
So be good to explore those aspects.
So you lived in the, as you mentioned in the Balkans,
Siberia and now Amsterdam, if I'm right.
How has that cultural mosaic shaped your leadership lens?
I often don't get the chance to think about my upbringing
because you get so embedded intothe new culture that you are.
(07:43):
And I've been in the Netherlandsfor 20 years.
But definitely the pragmatism from the Balkans comes through
sometimes in my leadership because in the beginning I would
highly and very, very consciously will translate
literally what some of the wisdom from my country will
bring into any conversation. And then of course it falls
(08:04):
because it it, it, it doesn't belong to the difference.
I would say that striving and like and and making sure that
people understand that there is deeper knowing into settling
into. I'll give you the example.
For instance, in my language, when we speak of leader, it
means like through your hands, like Roku Bodia and you're
(08:26):
trying to explain it and you're trying to say like, wow,
funnily, but we use different parts of the body to express
something that is different, butit means the same.
And because I was practicing always yoga, speaking about
somatic leadership and all of that.
And even these little differences of trying to explain
or not trying to explain, but just saying like, you know, you,
(08:48):
you show, you show people how todo some things.
Because let's not forget that way before we were using only
our brains. And now even with the technology
that is coming, we will usually,we will not be able to even use
the brain as much as we, we, we,we count it all.
It was through hands like leaders back in the days were
showing things and were leading in that manner.
(09:10):
And it's took it stood out in our, in our language.
And when you come here, you're trying to to be.
I was trying for the longest time to fit in person foremost
before I got the chance to lead teams the way.
I've always thought it was the right way.
I was lucky enough to have amazing leaders.
And I think role models are extremely important because then
(09:33):
you can fit in your own narrative of wow, I would want
to be experiencing my leadershipin this manner.
And then of course, you can get the chance to cross check it
with your own team and trust is a big thing so that you can
bring your knowledge into a completely different
environment. I had more than 60 nationalities
in the office that we were leading here like we were we
(09:55):
were having here. And that comes with a a lot of
knowledge that everyone brings and a lot of misunderstanding of
how we communicate, how we lead,how we Co create together.
But I would say that what I bring is this pragmatic way of
thinking. And it's some people in the
beginning would call me that Shenever, we never know if she
thinks this or things that because in Bulgarian actually,
(10:16):
when we say yes and when we say no, it's completely different
and it confuses people. Even the non verbal
communication. They're like, why you
disagreeing with me? And in my head I'm like, I was
totally agreeing with you. But that's one of these funny
things where you would be on thecall.
Before that we were in or in meetings, not in calls.
And people have the understanding that she
(10:37):
completely disagrees with my proposal.
And I'm like, no, I was actuallycompletely agreeing with you.
So even this small, small changeof like yes is no, no is yes
verbally and non verbally with your signals.
And now when I go back home is the opposite is true.
They will be like, oh, she agrees or she disagrees.
And I'm like, OK, you need to code switch a little bit to be
(10:58):
able to be understood. But I would say the yes and no.
And the world leadership throughhands gestures means was the one
that stands out because it's very easy to remember.
You know one of the areas you'vementioned is about being able to
adapt from a leadership in sustainability.
How critical do you think it is for leaders to be able to adapt?
(11:19):
Perhaps I can give you a context.
There is numerous stories about how Blockbuster was not able to
adapt enough and Netflix even went to Blockbuster for them to
buy early days and they didn't, you know, go to a whole list of
these companies. So what would you say your
experience about being able to adapt from different cultures is
so important? You mean for brands or overall?
(11:41):
Because adaptability is going tobe the skill that we all need to
not just anchor in our being, but really master.
If before we were having changesevery six months or every three
years or anything like that. Now it's like every month if if
not every week, something new ispopping up for our attention.
And I think that the most valuable skill is this
(12:02):
adaptability, but not triggered from the next shiny thing.
If anything, we will need to have adaptability rooted in
calmness, rooted in a, OK, I seewhat's happening.
I see where we're going with this.
And we are not going to change our strategy or adopt it just
because everyone else is doing it.
(12:23):
The fear there is that because it's happening so fast, we will
be exhausting our leadership or we were exhausting the people
that we leading. Oh, today is this, tomorrow is
that, oh, now we are, you know, plastic free.
Tomorrow we are this more aware that like it can create a lot of
adaptability, yes, but adaptability rooted in in in the
(12:43):
calm, knowing that this will work because we've done our
homework. I think that will be super
important. The only way to to to adopt is
really to immerse yourself. The way I moved countries and
embedded myself in different cultures was exactly, I think
when you're younger, it's kind of easier to be honest and, and,
(13:05):
and, and you get to, to see how you operate in a different
environment. But adaptability needs to come
very, very, we need to upskill many of our folks that work with
us, but it starts with also us. Like what are the new skills
that we need to acquire so that we get the chance to know, OK,
this is useful. This might go this way we might
(13:27):
be wrong completely about some of the our assumptions.
Are we putting a lot of how can I say we're putting a lot of
trust that the future will be bright at least every time I go
go to events is the 2 the two clubs like we're doomed.
Nothing good is coming. I'm, I'm more optimistic, even
though I'm very pragmatic and very like, we have lots of work
(13:47):
to do, but I definitely feel that the adaptability that we
need to acquire needs to be rooted in calmness and see the
bigger picture that we get to decide how we want to paint it.
It's, it's really, really crucial.
It's high time it's, it's not just words that we are putting
loosely out there. We, we, we can optimize our
(14:10):
skills to be finding solutions for really fundamental issues
that we have in our societies. Not to think that, oh, let's
leave it to the next generation to worry about, or let's leave
it to the 2-3, whatever generations or God forbid, we
just all decide we're going to go to Mars and that's, that's
it. We are, we're fine like that.
I think we're living in a very interesting times where we have
(14:33):
much more responsibility with that adaptability than we can
quote UN quote handle. And then we can choose how we
want to handle it. You can either do your steps
towards it, or you can just ignore the problem and it can
become much bigger. Yeah, thanks for sharing that.
So what does scaling with SO mean to you practically?
(14:53):
Which one is scaling? Scaling with soul with a soul
aspect, yeah. It's when you know that you're
leading with integrity, when youknow that the product you put
out there, the campaigns you're running or anything, that you
are literally as a marketeers. We have the power to be changing
peoples minds with the art we'reputting out there.
I believe that marketing is in this intersection between, yes,
(15:16):
we can change cultures because we putting art out there.
And I know that many of us don'tfeel like we're artists in in in
corporates, but eventually that's it.
You have the power to move people's emotions and hopefully
actions. The same way we can push people
to click on this button and buy the next pair of shoes, we also
can make a change within them sothat they can actually, you
(15:40):
know, nothing else is left. According to me, it's like the
soul is the last thing we have because it first was like, oh
wow, we we can optimize everything and automate
everything. And now even the intellectual
work can be outsourced to other type of technologies and what's
left? That's why I kind of cheeky call
it like scaling with soul, meaning that can you sit with
(16:05):
yourself and that deeper knowingthat at night I've done nothing
that either hurts the environment or makes someone,
you know, quote UN quote, sufferfrom my decisions.
You sit well with your soul and you can go with soul, you can go
with guidelines, you can go withdinner knowing whatever your
belief system is. But I put their soul because
(16:25):
it's like we hear this like it'ssoulless or soulless in
societies and it's like, yeah, well, how do we bring that back?
What keeps you kind of really alive?
What type of businesses you wantto see out there that are
helping rather than harming? I would say that anyone that
gets the chance to do the work that they're best at and knowing
(16:46):
that they can sit there with themselves at night not having
any, any question of like, how is my soul feeling like, you
know, when something is off, it will manifest with, I don't
know, minor diseases or things like that.
And you will notice that I'm notquite OK with how I'm leading
my, my, my life. And I'm a big believer that the
(17:08):
bodies are always telling us all, the, all the truth.
And we are just like giving a chance to catch up with those
signals. Yeah, I would say that's, that's
super important to me because I've been on both sides to know
like what it's like to do something that you really,
really love. And that is something that you,
your whole mind, soul and body is into.
(17:30):
And I've also been like, oh, wow, what do I need to do to,
quote UN quote, survive? And both have have its base.
It's not that 1 is better than the other.
It's just a matter of like, OK, where?
Where do you want to sit on thatspectrum?
Yeah. Yeah, thanks for sharing.
I think it's nice to see how to notice when is that tipping
point where you are growing its purpose.
(17:51):
I think someone quoted saying once you find what you love, you
stop working for the rest of your life.
You know, meaning you just excited, passionate about, you
know, whichever challenge that you're doing so.
That actually is also, I wanted to mention that it's, it's such
a, it's a very nice privilege to, to find that, that passion
(18:11):
and that. But I would say that's only one
part of it because you still need to be able to go for it.
And you might have a lot of preconceived ideas of how it's
going to look like. If I'm only mentoring for 2-3
years, how is that going to looklike on my CV or any of those
decisions? Just because you love something,
you always have to also be able to say like, yeah, it sits well
(18:33):
with me. I shouldn't care what others
think. And vice versa on like there is
the danger because you love something so much.
I see it with many of my founders.
They're so mono focused on bringing this product out there
and sometimes it is to the decrement of their own
well-being. And that's really breaks my soul
because it's like, you're so much more valuable if you take
(18:54):
care of yourself just because you love this, this, this
project that you're putting out there, You need to be
immediately like brought back toit's, it's still work and it's a
lot of work. And because you love it, you
might fall into the other opposite of saying like, I'm
going to like push through it because the the mission is too
(19:16):
big. And you mentioned about, you
know, burnouts in, in sustainability or like the
turnover of it's very scary because because you wouldn't,
you wouldn't know when, when youneed to reposition yourself in,
in, in this ground and calm manner to say, like, I care
about this so much that I will not exhaust myself because I
(19:38):
need to be there for the long run.
The, the mission that I'm quote,UN quote, fighting for
fulfilling for is so important to me that I need to be there
for much longer than the four years you mentioned because
titles change, but the body of work you're putting out there
can sustain. I, I think it's a trap when we,
(19:58):
when we think that just because we love something, we can get
high on it so much that it's like, Oh, we need to be careful
to be able so to take good care of ourselves, especially because
we like that what we do and no one teaches us that usually we,
we get to get to learn those lessons when we are like on the
3rd 4th burnout. And that's something I I really.
(20:22):
I, I really dislike because it's, it's a long time to, to
get back to where you want to beable to operate.
But this brings us to the conversation of why we need to
even exhaust ourselves like that.
Like keeping up with, with the environment that is not created
for us to do our best work. It's a massive responsibility
for us to, to take control over all the best work we can put
(20:44):
forward. It's from it.
Personally, I've toyed with the ideas of the difference between
success and fulfillment, and I focused on being more fulfilled
even though it may not be successful because the
fulfillment is more personal. I can look in the mirror and say
I am fulfilled with it even though in some external metrics
(21:04):
it might not be successful. So you know one of the tools
that I personally use in order to get the impact.
But I'm curious to know, you work as a fractional CMO, so how
do you intervene or help companies to blend that
profitability with purpose? Is it at the very start or is it
a more reactive way of correcting?
(21:28):
It's both ways. Sometimes clients come to me
saying like we need to reposition, we need to do things
from, from a different lens, making it, let's say, profitable
for the right reasons. Because obviously if you have a
business, it's, it's important to stay true to the cause and
the cause can be very profitablewhen you know what you're doing.
And I'm not saying that not everyone knows what they're
(21:49):
doing. I'm just saying that it's a
required senior leadership for areason, because you can
translate that vision to all thedepartments and everyone that is
involved in touching all touch points for the consumer.
So there are two ways. It's much easier I find in my
practice that you take a brand and you build it from the ground
up, from all the ingredients to be there than to revive.
(22:13):
So to say something that maybe has some legacy, has some
internal things that need to be tweaked in order for it to
succeed. And then I come into a play
where I I only work with impact brands.
I only work with brands that's really have done the exercise of
(22:33):
excavating their values and theyalign with mine and and then
it's a match made in heaven, so to say, because there is no,
it's almost like a creation. It's, it's a matter of like,
I'll bring the knowledge from a Fortune 500 towards your brands
and we'll do it with integrity and we'll do it with the the
best professionals out there. I often get the chance to invite
(22:58):
cooperators to strengthen the team.
And then it's like you have a formula that you know it will
benefit your client and you theycan see results much faster than
normally. They will get more, maybe more
junior person. And similar to what you
described the CM OS, they don't have the good reputation.
We are also on rotation very, very easily because it's like
(23:21):
everyone thinks they know how todo marketing and everyone thinks
that marketing is the problem for everything in a company.
Or at least we have this like notion.
But what it is exciting about itis that you get to build
something that is there to last.You're not distracted by what's
the next big, big thing and or you bring marketing that is
(23:41):
rooted in the values of the company.
So well because you've done yourexercise the same way that the
companies you work for are doingtheir.
Yeah, my values are like this. They'll come across like that.
And then execution of those campaigns is something that I'm
very passionate about because weall have big strategies.
But then you need to be there with the team to see how this
(24:02):
will come to life. And we spoke also about
adaptability. It's good to be there to see
when you have to be adaptable and when it's just a matter of
like you haven't given it enoughtime to kick in.
Results come with consistent effort and that consistent
effort it's, it's really you need to be able to see also the
results of your work, not for years and years, but like you
(24:25):
put foundations that it will benefit the, the the brands for
years more to come. No matter what is the next new
thing. You just build their foundations
either from start or reposition it.
We don't intend to be lasting. I don't work with brands that
want to be there for 2-3 years and then exit for instance, or
then I would argue most likely the solution you have out there
(24:48):
is not either needed or or yeah,it's something that it's maybe
not if I would not see it that people use it in three years, I
usually don't engage. But yeah, I hope that that's
your question. Absolutely.
You know, as you mentioned, thought that came to mind was
hopefully I will say properly, but to every hammer the problem
(25:08):
is a nail or to every nail the solution is a hammer.
So sometimes I find within the sustainability being able to
think outside the box or in other way.
I said to me sometimes when you're looking for the solution
to be A or B is mostly the answer is actually AC or AD.
But because you're so focused onA&B, you can think outside it.
(25:29):
So I think that relates with what you mentioned about the CMO
because it's your field and you're so passionate about it,
it's easy TO0IN without perhaps seeing from a different coin.
So that's good. Yeah, absolutely.
And you need to be able to. It's such a humbling position
also because I think I think youwill notice immediately if it
(25:54):
works or not with few consistentactions.
And then the customer or the consumer is the, the final judge
of like, Oh yeah, do we get you?Do we understand what, what this
intends to do? Do we see through the, the
glossy campaigns and we can findout what you do else in the, I
don't know, in society that is we agree or we disagree with, or
(26:16):
do we portray the brand as intended?
Or are people extremely, extremely tired of all this
constant noise and they can't even make a choice because we,
we pressure them to make the choice Now by now, by now, it's
like it's not about buying things.
It's about making sure that you have some, some need that we can
fulfill. And it's not about like us
(26:39):
trying to glorify things that are not true.
People are. So if given the chance, people
can see through many, many things.
And we, I, I enjoy creating campaigns that actually speak,
speak the truth. And then you empower your
customer or consumer to decide, yeah, it's very humbling because
sometimes you might, might find out that we were wrong.
(27:01):
And then again, I'd say we because it's never just one
decision. You, you, you need to be asking
a lot more questions to when youdo your consumer research and
they tell you something that maybe they don't follow through,
you're like, oh, yeah, we reallyhad to launch this product.
And then you see, it is like, oh, yeah, the research said so,
but the actuality of it is not true.
(27:21):
So you need to pivot. You need to be adaptable, as we
spoke about out of here. Yeah, it's.
Very, Yeah, that's good. Yeah.
Hopefully we can tease out aboutthe quality of seeking feedback.
And as you were speaking, I noticed about some stats where
what people or what customers and consumers are willing to pay
for sustainable brands is less than what they actually pay for
(27:44):
the concept of going back to thecustomer.
But what I'm keen to know, perhaps the question here is how
do you decipher from what a customer is saying that they
think they want? And perhaps if I can add an
another layer, Steve Jobs once said that sometimes you really
have to shoot the customer. Can you perhaps share some
insight as to the scale, the artof getting that feedback to
(28:06):
minimize the chances of war? But you're speaking about
visionary things like products that they, they, they couldn't
even imagine that can be either either created or be there, be
there for them. What we, what we do often, you
know, it's, it's just like all the other tech companies.
You can, you can launch things in the, in the PCD or you can,
(28:28):
you can test it if you have a wait list for those things.
Just need to be able to explain exactly what type of solution
you're creating at the moment. And easily you will notice.
Do people even resonate with themessage at the moment?
We can do AB testing all the time.
It's good that we have all thesetools on our disposal because
then we get signals that is like, not only they're willing
(28:50):
to get on the wait list, not only they're willing to tell us,
yes, we're going to pay between this, this and that.
And then you always need to put a ratio between like, OK, they
claim this, this and that. We have this database and then
see the results afterwards. If we have the demo, are they
purchasing for it? Are they willing to wait until
we produce it? Can we explain to people why it
(29:12):
takes so long? Can we be very transparent from
our side and then hoping that the response will be what we
aiming to do? And it comes from really asking
the right type of questions, sparking their curiosity so that
you can be able to say like, wow, we thought this is the
product they want. We ask them produce something
(29:32):
that they really is like the answer to all their questions or
the solution to all their questions.
Of course, otherwise you need toput a lot of money into
marketing, which is pouring and pouring and every CMO wants to
have tremendous budgets. But the reality is that when
things get tougher economy wise,you need to be even more
impactful or meant to be asked to be scrappier.
(29:53):
You're asked to be doing much more with less.
And a good way to do it is AB testing all the time and or some
of the things it's but also thisis where I say that it's art.
It's like you can abit has so many things, but there is
sometimes this knowing of like Iwonder if Steve Jobs was still
alive for being like, how would he know that we all needed a
freaking iPod back then. I didn't buy one because I was
(30:16):
never part of this. Like the cool crew, the trend
setters and all of that were thelate adopter to to the trends.
But you maybe know that there isalso this, like, if you have an
idea in your head and it comes and it just doesn't let you
sleep at night, most likely it'ssomething that needs to come
through you. And I would argue that many of
the visionary leaders have so many ideas like that and they
(30:39):
just had the ability to attract the right type of talent to push
that idea through. And marketeers like myself and
many other folks are enabling that to say, like, is this idea
really at the right time with the right type of audience, how
much they're willing to pay so that it's profitable enough so
that we can make something big? And I would say if you don't
(31:00):
want your idea, your idea might be big, but it's OK to also have
small just very good ideas. Because I just similar to you
when you speak of Steve Jobs or went like, I'm more fascinated
by someone that decided that it's very niche idea that will
change few lives, but it will change them fundamentally.
(31:21):
I'm I'm more much more, I'm moreI'm more excited about that.
And this could also be just likego playing smaller.
I sometimes think that we have this, we think big ideas and
scalability because more is more.
But sometimes if you are like now do smaller things way better
than anyone else, which is on. We just don't know how much more
(31:43):
effective that could be because we don't speak about the smaller
brands. We don't speak about the brands
that actually really are there for their customer day in and
day out. And part of part of my work is
also to allow those brands to have access to top notch
strategies rather than just the big brands with big marketing
(32:04):
working budgets. Yeah, yeah.
That's good. So how does your leadership
mentorship journey help to unlock opportunities and senior
executives or those who are building the brands?
So how does it help me to to to do that you mean?
Yeah. Perhaps you can share about how
your mentorship, Oh yeah, Jenny works and there might be a
(32:26):
listener who likes your incredible profile from the
Adidas to the Reebok. And so it's just of that
journey, yeah. For the mentorship, it's
extremely important to know, to know.
It's not like coaching, it's notlike different.
It's very different in a sense that you have someone that is on
your corner, but it's also brutally honest.
(32:48):
And most likely it's been through similar, you know,
challenges with other brands Andand how it changes is that I had
the opportunity now for the pasttwo years to be working in multi
facet and multi in different different industries because I
had the chance to work for one brand or two brands for the
longest time. And that gave me the opportunity
(33:09):
to gain a lot of access to information and know how, but
only one industry. And then I had this opportunity
to branch out and do multiple industries with the lens of
impact on the less of social entrepreneurs.
And then when we come to speak with one another for mentorship
is like, OK, depending on how senior the brand is or the, the,
(33:31):
the, the entity that is being created, It's super important to
be supported, you know, all parts of it because what type of
mentorship you would require in the beginning is very different
than when you're scaling up. I'll provide the the service of
being there for the founder and the idea that needs to grow and
it comes through trusting the process.
And the process is the most massive process you can think of
(33:53):
because many of the founders getto attach to their idea, to
attach to the business itself, to attach to the outcome of it
or what success would look like.And God forbid if they too early
get the funding and they're not prepared for it.
They need to be able to know howto optimize the resources that
they already have. The sheer amount of what it
takes to hold that when you get the bigger first funding.
(34:16):
I, I, I get goosebumps when I see founders getting their
fundings because it's like it would request you to work on a
very different level. And then what it means to go
with someone that actually knowswhat that feels like.
And I don't believe that we all have to be building massive
brands. As I mentioned to you, we just
need to be able to build brands that matter.
And I think that those are the people that I, I, I love working
(34:40):
with and mentoring and see them through all the aspects of their
business and not see it as like a mono single, single.
Oh yeah, I need, for instance, someone will come, can you
mentor me to, to hire my whole C-Suite?
That's fine. Do you even need AC suite?
Like there are so many more questions around that.
Like what will strengthen, you know, the, the entity you're
(35:01):
creating or the brand you're creating?
Because often with mentoring, it's you get the discussion in
one one, like you start a discussion on one topic and it
it turns out it's a completely different and it's a very
beautiful Co creation. I definitely love doing it with
multiple teams simultaneously because you also see the wave
(35:22):
of, oh wow, they're going with this.
And you have to be able to put their needs before anyone else's
because they might have a very different value on why they're
doing what they're doing. And you're there to strengthen
their ability to push it throughsustainably without burning out,
without hopefully taking decisions that will cost them
too much. And I'm not talking money, I'm
(35:42):
talking a lot more sleepless nights and so on and so forth.
Yeah, that's great. You know, Crimina, this was both
grounding and energizing. Where can listeners or those
watching go to learn more about your work?
I'm supposed to be more easily found on LinkedIn, so if anyone
(36:02):
feels called to connect with me,please drop me a message on
LinkedIn. If you want to be mentored by me
or simply want to have a conversation, it will be my
pleasure. And yeah, I'm mostly on
LinkedIn. I might not be the fast ones to
respond, I must admit, but I'm definitely mostly there, yeah.
(36:23):
Thanks for tuning into sustainable transformations.
Remember, the real transformation begins at the
intersection of integrity and action.
Also, until next time, please lead with purpose.
Thank you so much.
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