August 3, 2025 • 43 mins
Summary
In this episode of the Sustainability Transformations podcast, Tigrilla Gardenia discusses her journey from high-performance systems to nature-inspired leadership. She emphasizes the importance of reconnecting with our inner plantness, thriving instead of merely surviving, and the value of multi-passionate minds in organizations. Tigrilla explores how ecosystems can inform creative expression and the dynamics of competition and collaboration. She also highlights the significance of listening and plant music in enhancing communication and understanding. The conversation concludes with practical advice on building supportive ecosystems in personal and professional environments.
Guest Bio:
Nature-Inspired Mentor, Certified Life Coach (ICF PCC), and World Ambassador for Plant Advocacy helping creative multipotentialites and nature-inspired professionals professionals to confidently live authentic, purpose-driven lives in co-creation with the plant kin-home.contact:
www.tigrillagardenia.com
www.linkedin.com/in/tigrillagardenia
Takeaways
Nature inspires leadership and creativity.
Reawakening our connection to plants is transformative.
Plants teach us about thriving, not just surviving.
Multi-passionate individuals bring unique perspectives.
Ecosystems foster innovation and collaboration.
Competition should be temporary and strategic.
Listening deeply enhances communication.
Plant music expands our understanding of expression.
Curiosity fosters openness and reduces defensiveness.
Start small with nature to reconnect with ourselves.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Nature-Inspired Leadership
02:33 The Concept of Inner Plantness
05:18 Thriving vs. Surviving: Lessons from Plants
08:03 Multi-Passionate Minds in Organizations
11:06 Ecosystem Models for Creative Expression
14:05 Competition vs. Collaboration in Nature
16:42 Cycles of Growth and Rest
19:37 The Importance of Listening and Plant Music
27:06 The Musicality of Nature
33:28 Listening to Ourselves and Others
38:27 Transforming Beliefs Through Nature
42:58 Reconnecting with Nature's Intelligence
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
So we have to remember that plants have been on the planet
for 470 million years. They are, you know, plants in
general are, are pioneer species.
Many of them, they're the ones that take barren area and turn
it into something. So even just biologically
speaking, there is so much we can learn about how a plant
(00:21):
steps into a location that has maybe just emerged because maybe
there was some kind of movement,seismic movement that created an
opening. Or in the case of a forest, you
had an old growth tree that maybe opened up a light gap.
Or we're talking about a forest fire that's come through and
ravaged an area, right? And so the inner plantness is
(00:44):
kind of the exact same thing from ourselves.
We evolved from plants. We have that part of us.
Inside, we know that plants havemany more senses active than we
as humans do. Welcome to Sustainability
Transformations podcast where weexplore bold ideas to drive
(01:07):
positive change for people, the community and business.
And today's guests is an ecosystems thinker and multi
passionate mentors, spiritually grounded, nature LED and
empowering. Atigria Gardenia is a certified
life coach, plant communication expert and founder of the
naturally conscious community, helping creative leaders drive
(01:28):
in alignment with nature, purpose and deep inner wisdom.
Degree. Your journey from Microsoft to
the various other companies is incredible.
What sparked your shift from high performance systems to
nature inspired leadership? What a.
Great question. Thank you.
First of all, thank you so much for having me here.
I'm always excited and passionate to talk about.
(01:51):
These subjects so I've. Gone through a few different
journeys and it's really interesting to always think back
what is the thing that took me from one place to another?
And especially when it comes to things like connecting to nature
in such a deep way. I mean, I'm a city.
Girl like I grew up. In a big city, as my mother
loves to always remind me, what are you doing in the middle of
(02:12):
nowhere? We're from the city, it's true.
We're from an island, to be honest.
But find the city of an island and really what connects me into
this? World.
Was a first realization and whatI call a plant reawakening,
which was a connection with a plant that helped me finally
understand that the plant is a being, a being of nature, an
(02:36):
actual living, quote UN quote person with agency.
And this all came from me from something called the Music of
the Plants, which is a device that allows plants.
To use their bioelectrical theirelectrophysiology.
To make music and when I connected in and I heard a plant
make music using this. Biofeedback device for the
(02:56):
first. Time I all of a sudden realized
that there was more going on andthis made me extremely.
Curious as to. What is that more and given the
fact that my background has technology as.
Well as spirituality as well as the arts I.
Use all of those different. Aspects to really.
Understand the natural world as a being of nature myself so
(03:20):
rather than looking at it. And even though I've worked in
things like bio mimicry and bio inspired design.
I always approach it. From the ethos of I'm a being of
nature and I'm looking to createwhether I'm designing a product
or social innovation, specifically as a being of
nature. How would I?
As a being of nature, if humans finally remembered that we're
(03:41):
part of nature. How do I?
Create like an ecosystem? How do I create something?
That doesn't have to have. Garbage cans all over the place.
Because the waste is recycled, how do I?
Think about the regeneration. How do I think about what
happens throughout the entire cycle and so that it's in
harmony with what's happening rather than thinking of it as
(04:04):
something separate? Hopefully that makes sense.
Makes perfect sense. You talk about reawakening for
inner plant nests. What does that mean and why is
it so transformational? Yeah.
Inert your plant so we have to remember that plants have been
on the planet for 470 million years They are you know, plants
(04:25):
in general are are pioneer species many of them they're the
ones that take barren area and turn it into something.
So even just biologically speaking, there is so much we
can learn about how a plant steps into a location that has
maybe just emerged because maybethere was some kind of movement
(04:45):
seismic movement that created anopening or in the case of a
forest, you had an old growth tree that maybe opened up a
light gap or we're talking abouta forest fire that's come
through and ravaged an area right.
The first species besides, you know, of course there are plants
and bacteria and sorry, excuse me, there's bacteria and fungi
(05:06):
that come in and then come in the plants to start to.
Rehabilitate or create HabitableHabitable.
Area and so the inner plantness is kind of the exact same thing
from ourselves. We evolved.
From plants we have that part ofus inside.
We know that plants have many more senses active than we as
(05:27):
humans do. So if I approach the world like.
That kind of pioneer species. Like the fact that I.
Myself have more senses and I think about it and this is.
Probably 1 of the biggest shiftsis.
Instead of thinking about it from just my animal nest which
allows me to run away when I. Screw up the area or.
(05:48):
I make a mistake. Or I have.
Something happening that I don'twant to deal with, I just run
away from it. But a plant is sessile.
A plant can't move. So your inner plantness is also
your presence. The fact that I have to be in
it, I have to sit and I have to open up all my senses.
I have to think of myself as a sensor and I have to bring in.
(06:08):
All of those senses to. Assess what is happening around
me and then from that. Area of rather.
Than avoidance but instead from expansiveness concentrate on
what it is that I want to focus on so my inner plantness is
cultivating presence it's. About.
Reawakening myself as sensor as having so many different types
(06:31):
of senses and. Also about.
Thinking of my decision making. Process as.
I take in everything and I trustthat I will know what to focus
on. So it's just a different way of.
Approaching it where? If I approach.
Everything from my animal Ness. Which is useful.
Because I am an animal, but and which is much more instinctual
and it's more movement. Based.
(06:53):
We have to. Find a way to work with both of
them. We have to be able to connect
because that's what makes us human is.
The fact that I have all of that.
I was just looking up even my own life where it was essential
to just stand, and that stand isso important.
So that's really good. What's the first thing plants
teach us about thriving and not just surviving?
(07:14):
Yeah, So again, because plants are sessile because they can't
run away, right, many times we tend to think in humans, as in,
for example, when we think of hunter gatherers, many of us
think they were just surviving, right?
Oh, my goodness. There's scarcity.
They don't know. But that's actually not true.
The. History and the science shows us
that in reality, these these early humans were so connected
(07:39):
to the land that they knew whereeverything was right.
They knew in what season or in what period of time.
They knew what the land offered them, and they knew how.
To not just take, but also. Give, in other words.
How? Whatever they produced or.
Even threw away would be reintegrated in order to
(07:59):
continue the ecosystem. So when you think about it in
those terms, you start to realize that, OK, wait a minute,
if I'm really connected, if I allow myself to step into that
part of myself that knows where that I can't run away, so
therefore I learn. How to use?
Everything I get to know my environment so well, then I move
(08:23):
out of survival mode because I don't have to have, I don't
know, 17 things or I don't have to.
Buy out of. Fear or I don't have.
To produce. And.
Take over space because if. I know how to use the
environment and work with the environment and be in harmony
with my environment and by my environment, to be clear, I'm
(08:45):
talking about any kind of environment, not just physical
environment, but also my psychological or my emotional
environment. These environments also are
extremely important because if Ithink of everything that I am,
everything that I do, that I think my talents, my skills, my
characteristics, all of them as being useful and that I just
have to. Figure out how they get used.
(09:07):
Then rather than living in fear because I'm living in scarcity,
there's not going to be enough resources instead, you know?
Where it is that you have to go.In order to achieve things, I'll
give you. A really silly but.
Practical examples Back when I worked at Microsoft, I was one
of my mentors gave me a book to read and it was.
Called How to Be a Rock Star at Work.
(09:28):
And it was really interesting because the concept.
Of this book is that the. True rock star is not the person
that knows more than anything. The true rock star is the
person. With the most amount of
connections the person that knows their environment knows.
All the people. So that in an emergency, for
example, they walk in and they're like, Oh my goodness,
(09:49):
what's happening in, I don't know, in a modern context, we
would say the system went down about, wait a minute, hold on,
let me call so and so over in this department because they
know how to do this, this and this.
And then I'm going to go call this person over here in this
other department because they know how to do this.
And I'll have them come over here.
And because we're friends and weknow each other and we know each
other's work, I'm sure I can getthem to work together on this
(10:10):
problem. The person that has the most
connections. Which is exactly.
What a plant does right, A plantis in their ecosystem.
They're creating all kinds of different relationships because
they need to know how to be ableto handle all kinds of
situations, and that's where youmove.
Out of the fear. That is what takes you into
survival mode and you move into thriving.
(10:31):
Because now I can, I know my my emergency situations are taken
care of. I know my basic functions are
going to be working. And then I can dedicate myself
to really looking beyond that, to thinking about what.
Is it that I? Expand into.
How do I evolve? How do I grow?
I take out of. Fear mode.
Where I have to hoard. And keep and do all these things
(10:54):
because I'm afraid I go out of competition because competition
in the natural world is really just something.
That you do for a short period of.
Time to gain a slight advantage and then you let it go and you
keep going off. Really, it is mutualisms,
mutually beneficial relationships, and relationships
in general, that make everythingmove into the world of thriving.
(11:17):
That's kids. So how do traditional
productivity systems within organizations fail those who are
multi fascinate within organizations?
Yeah, this is a really. Great question because it's
something that I think for organizations there's a.
Fear that, of course. If I have a bunch of people who
are neurodivergent, multi passionate and such, I have.
(11:39):
To like. Control them or try to.
Focus. Them, as opposed to again, going
to that plant metaphor we keep talking about, is if I allow
them to take everything in and instead teach them how to use
however it is that their mind works.
To weave together these skills. And.
Produce the output. That I want, then I.
(11:59):
Have people who are happier. More engaged and more exciting.
So the productivity thought that.
Says focus, discipline you have to do things in this way doesn't
work for the multi passionate mind.
The multi passionate mind instead needs to see the
connections between things We want to understand.
Why is it that when I listen to this style of music over here
(12:22):
and over here, when I, I don't know, go rock climbing on the
weekend and when I'm over here and I sit down and I start to
write code and. Over there I have these.
Deep conversations with somebodyabout.
Ballet. How is it that all?
Of these things instead form a ecosystem for myself that allows
me to understand that the music produces mathematical functions
(12:46):
in my mind that help with my coding and that the ballet shows
me that my coding needs to be graceful and it needs to to flow
into something so rather than thinking about it as separate
processes it. Actually.
Flows and then the rock climbingshows me how my coding needs to
have this ability to persevere and set safety mechanisms in
order to ensure that there's just the right amount of
(13:08):
redundancy to not be weighted down because of course, if I'm
rock climbing, I don't want that, but I need to be safe and
secure, right? So the multi passionate mind.
Actually uses all these. Somewhat separate things to
instead really connect them together and if instead the
employer or if the company or the group encourage them.
(13:30):
To explore why. They do these things.
What? Do they get out of?
It then they will naturally wantto apply it to the work they're
doing. So it's not about focus, it's
about finding the connections and then understanding how to
apply those connections. And that is what again instead
of going into scarcity mode, which discipline for a multi
(13:52):
passionate mind is scarcity, I'meither going to get bored.
Because if I have to. Do one thing.
I can't do it. I'm I'm going to get bored and
I'm going to get frustrated because my mind doesn't work
that way. My mind naturally jumps from one
thing to the other, and it's more important that if I
understand that each one of themhas a, has a purpose and has
something that it's helping me understand, then.
(14:14):
I will apply whatever I. Learned in one into the other.
That's impressive connection from the various activities.
So looking at the plant model for sustainable growth, how does
the plants teach us about creative expression or flow
based success mechanisms? Yeah, it's very connected.
(14:35):
To what I was just saying because when you're looking at
it. If you start to build.
A business, for example, a department or even a company
from the perspective of an ecosystem, right.
So I think. About it as.
How do I create an ecosystem model?
First of all, it's transdisciplinary, right?
I know. That I have to have.
Different people who do different things or different
(14:56):
sections that do different things, and I think much more.
About how do these weave? Into one another.
So I don't think of them as separate, but I think about
them. As how is it that they flow?
So for example, if I when I lookat an ecosystem, I might have
two ecosystems standing right next to one another.
I don't know the ocean and then the beach.
(15:17):
Right, but. There's an ecotone in the
middle. Which is the area where these?
2 overlap and you flow from one to the other and this helps us
better understand what is going to be the flow between these.
Two, how do I do this? Especially because ecotones.
Tend to be areas of high, high, high innovation and high
(15:38):
experimentation. Which means I should never
think. That the area that overlaps.
Between two sections, whether there be?
Two roles or two whole. Departments or two whole
industries. The overlap can never be a point
of stability. If you try to stabilize that,
(15:59):
it's always going to be a failure because that's.
Not the place where stability comes from.
That's the place where where. Mutations, experimentations, new
ideas and creativity come from So when we.
Start to look at how. Ecosystems, which of course you
know, are. Are the world's.
Growing, you know, environments.It's how the world has created
(16:20):
itself. Then I start to understand that
if I build things based on thosemodels.
If I. Look at it in those know when am
I supposed to stabilize when instead?
Do I allow lots of? Mistakes and changes and growing
and expand and experimenting andthings like that.
So I start to see. How different parts of my
(16:44):
whether we're talking about a business?
Or otherwise, how is it that they are supposed to?
Run and I don't apply the wrong criteria or.
Success criteria to each. One of them, and I think that
this is a big place where we make mistakes, we start to think
that everything is supposed to have this model, but that's not
how the natural world works and partnerships take a time, they
(17:08):
have periods of deep experimentation and.
Also there are. Some kinds of relationships in
nature that are temporary and some that are more long term.
And that's another part that we as human beings don't think
about. For example, competition, as I
said earlier, can never be long term because when you do long
term competition in the natural world, somebody dies.
(17:30):
It's in your energy, you know ittakes out all your energy to
compete. So if you.
Build, for example, two teams orto, you know, companies that are
always competing. You're always going to go into
burnout. You're always going to be
exhausted. I remember that when I worked at
Microsoft at the time, but Bill Gates was.
Really really great at this because he would like task 2.
(17:54):
Teams with the same. Project, but first he.
Wouldn't tell them so that they wouldn't have competition at the
beginning. He would let them innovate then
when they reached a certain amount of stability, or if that
innovation would. Start to to to stale.
Out he would then tell each. Each other that they existed.
Then they would. Compete for a while.
And that would bring out anotherflurry of new innovation.
(18:16):
And then when? Kind of like a really.
When he started to see the emergence of whatever it was
that he needed, he would merge the teams and find what was the
best combination of it. And it was a Meccan.
I mean he. Used it several.
Times and it was a really interesting mechanism.
Sometimes it worked really great, sometimes he wasn't great
at the integration part, which is a big problem a lot of
software companies have. But the idea of it.
(18:38):
Very much models something that could work.
The competition should be limited to certain periods of
time, to certain lengths in order for them to work, and
certain areas should never. Be thought of as stable.
And other areas. Should always be stabilized, so.
Looking at it from these different perspectives, like a
(18:59):
plant would experience that ecosystem helps us better
understand what does long term stability or better said, long
term sustainability and regeneration really look like.
I'm curious to know, aren't humans in workplace or people
generally competitive? Is it a natural inclination you
(19:20):
know to want to compete? And how do individuals or maybe
you know, you can share some, you know, light on that place?
Yeah, this is a this. Is something.
This is a misnomer, right? This is one of.
Those false realities that we have, which is basically we've.
Been conditioned to. Believe that the way I.
Get ahead is by competing when again if we step back and we
(19:41):
look at the natural world. There's some really, really
great. Articles out there.
I remember that Jaina Baumiser from IO Mimicry 3.8.
Wrote a great article about. This and there's been and also
Jeanine Benyus from Biomimicry 3.8 has talked.
About this subject. But if you look at the natural
world, again, competition is notour natural.
State if you look at. Children competition is not our
(20:02):
natural. State right?
Sure, we might have moments, butit's not an inclination that's
born into. Us that we.
Always have to be competitive. It's actually the way our.
Society teaches us our society. Teaches us that I have to be
better. But that if I'm not better than
somebody else, I'm worse. So you don't ever want to be
(20:23):
labeled as worse. And so that's why you get into a
competition. We think about it in so many
different ways, rather than looking at competition in
limited places where it can be used to boost performance.
Or to boost or have. A new transformation occur and
then they have. To work together to stabilize.
(20:44):
That to create what the foundation upon which you land
new things. So really the natural world
works more on cycles, right? Whether we're talking about, you
know, yearly cycles around the, you know, around the sun or
whether we're talking about monthly.
Cycles or whether we're. Talking about the seasons, all
of it is based on cycles and thecycles include.
(21:05):
Rest because there are periods where.
All species rest, nobody blooms.Forever, right there are.
Periods of rest. Some have wider dormancy.
Like if I'm an annual right and I'm going into a bulb, I spend
the long part of my life in a bulb, right?
So we have this. And then maybe there's a little
bit of competition at some point, but then there is this
(21:28):
period of, you know, OK, I've now bloomed.
I'm now who I'm supposed to be. I'm going to get everything I
need here, right? Sun, nutrients, everything,
everything. And then now I'm going back into
my bulb. Right.
So we have to look at. All of these different elements
and realize. That society has taught us a
series of. Things, but those when you get
(21:51):
into the lessons, they come froma place of scarcity and fear.
When the natural world operates on cycles, that also means that
a lot of our big time models might not work.
In other words, should a companyreally think?
About yearly profit over profit.Increases.
Is that actually natural in and of itself?
(22:11):
And the answer is no. There.
Should be periods again of. Rest periods of.
Stabilization, this is the new norm.
This is our product line. This is where things change.
These cycles need to be built into our systems, but until
they're built into our reward systems, right what we think.
About as success. If we don't build them into our
(22:32):
success models, we cannot createsustainable business.
We cannot. Create people who feel like they
could. They're aligned with their own
inner rhythms. To find success, markers need to
be varied also in and of themselves.
Rest. Is successful making time for?
Rest is. Really important in the natural
(22:54):
world and it is not seen in other words, taking care of my
personal positive mental health is not seen by a company's line
as something that is successful in my clients, you know, or in
my employees where I don't look at a different.
Factors, that is what? Makes a system sustainable over
long periods of time. Why is it that an old growth
(23:15):
ecosystem like a forest can? Last for centuries, right?
Well, how do they do that? It's not always growing and
expanding. This one's growing over here,
while this one over here here isresting, while this one over
here is stabilizing while this one over here is starting to
emerge. Like there are all.
Everything is going through its natural cycles and this.
(23:38):
Allows the overall old growth. Start, you know, the forest to
continue forward. So we need to start thinking
about things in a very differentway so that humanity so that
humans can re connect back. To their true.
Essence, their true nature as animals which have instinctual
pieces and competitive pieces, and also as their inner
(24:01):
plantness, their presence, theirability to take in large amounts
of input and and move that through and flow with that.
The next area I'm looking at is listening.
Listening skills is so scarce, whether is listening to myself
or listening to each other and it comes about from where there
(24:22):
are myths around how to ensure that communication is as
effective I'm cursing the What is plant music and how can it
change the way we listen to ourselves, each other and.
I love this, I love this. Question because it is true.
We as humans are kind of again conditioned out.
Of the idea of. Listening and really hearing
beyond even just. The.
(24:44):
Words being spoken first and foremost, one of the things, one
of the dangers. Is that we rely.
Too much on words and language, but specifically, we'll take an
example between us 2, right? Both of us are speaking in
English, but we're speaking froma very different contextual and
cultural understanding of the language, right?
(25:04):
Both of us have lived in multiple countries.
Both of us experience English from different points of view.
And so therefore your frame of reference is very different from
my frame of reference. So I'm being careful to modify
my words, not as a inhibiting myself, but as an ensuring that
I'm communicating my what I wantto be saying.
(25:26):
And when I say words that I think maybe they're not
understandable because, you know, maybe you don't know what
bio mimicry is as nature inspired design to define them
and to put them into a context that makes it easy to
understand, right. But not just that, my words also
have inflections and rhythms andways that I'm speaking and that
(25:50):
change the context. And that, again, are very
culturally significant, right? For some cultures, a high pitch
means something different than alow.
Pitch A pause could have a very specific.
Meaning to it rather than longerphrases.
In essence, language is a musicality.
It has tone and pitch and frequency and all these
(26:12):
elements. So the music of the plants.
Is, as I said earlier, a device.It's a musical instrument for
plants using the electrophysiology of a plants,
the. The the biofeedback.
System that the plant has and itmeasures the impedance between
the leaf and the root system andthis allows them, the plants to
make music The interesting part is that this music is very
(26:33):
different from human music because again human music is
conditioned right we we hear rock'n'roll and we like it and
so we imitate it and we continuously are innovating but
on a very similar base pattern because that becomes.
The base of what? Our society considers pleasant
or, you know, loved or anything like that, but plants don't care
(26:54):
about any of. That right, they have their.
Own way of dealing with things so when we hear plant music and
we think about the fact that language my.
Words is a musicality. And everything is a musicality.
All expression is. Now it starts to open you to a
new way of reading. What is it that the plant is
experiencing? And that makes me wonder, well
(27:15):
then, what other senses are there?
Am I really hearing the whole story?
You know, as you talk talk, I'm looking at your face, I'm
looking at your arms, I'm I'm listening to all the different
sounds in your. Voice because.
Working with plants, I've expanded my senses.
I've understand that there's waymore to seeing and hearing and
(27:37):
smelling and tasting than what we've been trained to do, and
that if I allow myself to reallytaste.
With the. Fullest expression of my taste,
then I can get more. Out of whatever.
It is that I'm tasting, whether it's tasting the air right now
or whether it's tasting my tea right it's.
It's. All coming from different pieces
(27:59):
of senses that I'm putting together and this then helps me
communicate better. The combination of understanding
that relationships are more thanjust.
I love you. You're my friend, you're my
boss, you're my parents. Or whatever those types of.
Relationships, but that plants also create many other types of
relationships, and in nature there are many other types of
(28:20):
relationships and I. Couple that, I put that together
with the idea of. Wait a minute, communication is
coming from a whole body experience and the only way that
I can understand what somebody else is saying to me.
Is I have to also? First and foremost, understand
(28:40):
myself. As you said, I have.
To be able to listen to myself, which means hearing when my body
screams, know at something or understanding that that pinch.
That I just felt. Was really meant because it came
from something that was giving me an indication.
I have to listen not just to my thoughts, thinking about the
(29:03):
conversation running in my head,but to how my body interprets
things because there's, you know, many thought processes.
That say that we really. Have three different minds.
We have the brain mind, the logical mind, right?
We have the heart mind, the emotional the mind and we have
the gut mind, right the the instinctual response mind.
(29:25):
And there are even scientific. Studies that start to show us
that the way that. The bacteria and the way that
the organisms that experience that I that live within my body,
maybe not always physically within the areas I'm thinking
of, but that they live within mybody, actually have response
mechanisms and shoot off chemical signatures as well as
(29:48):
electrical signatures, But we'renot taught to listen to them.
So how can I interpret what you're saying to me if I don't
even know what I'm saying to me?And so working with a plants,
for example, which is what I often tell people, and I tell
this a lot to with my clients, we work on this, which is
sometimes when you're so inside of a frame of reference, like
(30:11):
what it means to be human. If I step out of that frame of
reference into something safe like being a plant, and I think
of myself. As all right, how does the?
Plant for example, smell the situation.
What? What is it that?
The plant is smelling for. And what is the plant also
emitting? Because I can't smell my
(30:32):
pheromones. I mean, of course, if I haven't
taken a shower in a while, I might be.
Able to but. My body, I can't really smell
all the chemicals that I give off, right?
But yet I know. That there are people that are
like, oh, you just have a specific.
Smell. That's how I know.
You're here, so OK. If I step out into and I think
(30:53):
of myself kind of in my plant Ness, I'm present.
I can't run away. What am I taking in through
that? Then I can start to expand and
then when I come back into my human model, I, I, I'm not as
judgmental, I'm not as conditioned because I've been
able to experience it from a different point of view.
(31:15):
And then I can integrate it backinto my human way of experience.
So it allows me to 1st listen tomyself much better to hear.
The truth of what these. Different parts of me, not just
what I convinced myself. That I thought I heard.
Or not based on partial information and then I can.
Share with you. And I can hear, not only can I
(31:36):
express myself better, regardless of whether or not I
ever work on words, but my whole, my whole body will be
expressing and sharing with you.And I'm able to hear you more
completely because I'm going to be hearing you with my entire
body, rather than just one part that has learned that this word
(31:56):
means this thing, and this word that means this thing, which
might not even be the same. Word that you were taught.
So I'm not as. Fearful also of.
Asking for clarification, I'm not as fearful of saying I think
I heard you say. This.
But is this really what? You meant I'm not as scared to
get into a conversation because I'm very comfortable with the
(32:16):
idea that. We all.
Hear differently and I and the only way to get clarity is if
you and I kind of communicate. Across that and so.
I'm much more open to hearing different ideas, different
thoughts, and it starts to literally make it easier for me
to to. Have a true full picture of.
(32:39):
Something rather than a limited.Scope that our words.
Can say that was a very long answer, hopefully it made sense.
Yeah, it shows how important listening is and the various
aspects which if we could do more of, would save a lot of
work or personal relationships. So you've worked with clients
from various industries. Can you share an example of
(33:02):
someone transforming their entire belief system using a
plant based framework? Wow, there's so many examples.
I mean, I've had, I've had clients in many, many different
types of industries and experiences and really seeing
them grow is one of my favorite things because this example of
what I was talking about of. Of the fact of first.
(33:24):
Starting with the listening of within, I think is crucial, and
it's a work that goes hand in hand also with realizing that
the norms and conditions that we've been taught are not.
Always conducive to where? We want to get in life.
So for example I've had had clients.
That have had full careers even successful careers, but.
(33:48):
Then now when their career is over and they're trying to move
into another their stage of life.
Have realized that where their career they were.
Able to kind of only have that one piece.
It was because as this if they try to.
Follow that same model that worked for them into the next
stage of life. It doesn't work.
And it's because when again, looking at it from kind of an
(34:12):
ecosystem perspective, we have different levels of secession,
right? A young an early secession,
which means I'm I'm a newly being formed ecosystem has a.
Series. Of different characteristics and
a different ways of expressing and goals.
But then when I get into the next level like a next next
level ecosystem, I now have different expectations.
(34:35):
So by using kind of the models that nature.
Provides to us. Thinking about it almost like a
biomimic sense, we first understand the deep pattern.
So for example, one of my clients who.
Like I said, had this. Wonderful, Really great,
Successful. Career.
It was very focused. And she tried to apply that same
logic to what came next. And it was really.
(34:57):
Funny because her job was. Very.
Technical. It was very high stress.
It was something. She was very good at because.
She was able to compartmentalizeand so it was an Emergency
Management type of situation. So she was.
Always had to be. One focus and this is what I'm
doing. Very calm and even.
Keel but to do. That she had to put everything
(35:19):
that is her emotional life into a little box.
And when you're young, young, not so much.
Age wise but. Young as in a young ecosystem,
which is kind of how she. Was.
It was. Fine for her because an
ecosystem is stretching and expanding in certain directions.
There's lots of movement happening, but it's a focus type
movement when she moved into a later stage in life.
(35:42):
After she retired, she. Tried to apply the same logic
and she came to me because she'slike this isn't working like I
don't even know who I am anymoreand so we were.
We we evaluated how her life. How her ecosystem life had moved
and what stage of succession wasthat life in?
And then we. Looked at the characteristics.
That that kind of life has. And it was funny because this is
(36:05):
a person who, like I said, very determined, very focused.
Every everybody would kind of goto her when there's a problem.
And then one day she we were working on different aspects and
she was realizing that her life now critics was much more
expansive. There was some things that were
running on automatic and then that was giving her an
opportunity. To.
Focus in different areas and shejust declared one day.
(36:27):
She's like, I've realized. I am an artist, something she
would have never. Said for herself.
And she was like, I am a creative artist.
Because. She had been trying to do
everything in the kind of mechanistic way that she had
learned, and now she had. Realized that she was at a
stage. Of life and in her entire
ecosystem was supporting her ability to now test and mutate
(36:52):
and play. And she didn't need to be
stable. She could be unstable, she could
have an amount of instability and exploration that in the
earlier. Stages she had.
Passed through that when she wasvery young and then had moved
into the stabilization, stabilization ecosystem life and
now she was in a place of deep exploration and that gave her
(37:13):
personal permission to really think about her life, not from
who have I been, but who am I now?
How do I explore that? Now.
Very practical example that we can relate to.
So whether it's individuals or sustainability professionals, we
have to work in an environment that is building trust and
(37:37):
collaborating teams are not working in silos.
So you you may have a supply chain team, the marketing team,
sales and other teams working insilos.
So how can we build a personal and professional ecosystem that
mirrors nature based on what we've discussed that is more
supportive, diverse and inflow? Yeah, so the first and.
(37:57):
Foremost, I would say is going back to the conversation we had
earlier about personal listening, oftentimes the
difficulty. That I have with others besides
whatever the other. Person is going through or the
other group is going through. Oftentimes it also comes from a
place of not really knowing myself.
Where am I in my cycle? What do my cycles look like?
Whether we're talking about daily cycles, for example, I
(38:18):
talk often about the fact. That we all have daily.
Cycles. There are some things I do
better in the morning and some things I do better in the
afternoon. So if I know that about myself,
I try not to have the converse like I try to focus my
conversations or my explorationswith others in those.
Periods that work well. For me, I try to harmonize my
(38:38):
cycles. To the way.
That my working environment is, so maybe I'm much more creative
in the like late afternoon so I see if with my team.
I could schedule super creative.Meetings in the afternoon, maybe
in the morning I'm. Really good at strategy so I'll
try to. Organize my strategy meetings in
the morning times. Maybe there's like at the
(39:01):
beginning of the month, I'm better at some things and the
end of the month, so I can set my recurring meetings in a
certain way or how my dynamics are.
In other words, the most important thing is to know
yourself. And so that deep listening that
we were talking about, so that my, I know when my gut is
speaking, my emotions are speaking, or when my mind, my,
my, my, my brain or my logic is speaking and I can ask
(39:25):
questions. Not saying 1 is better than the
other because the truth of the matter is they're not, they're
all important. But I know which one it is so
that I can frame the question correctly.
I don't frame a gut instinct as an.
Absolute because there's data. Behind it, I frame it as a gut
instinct, like I'm getting a sense from what you're saying.
(39:47):
That we should go there. How can we explore whether.
That's the right. Direction very different from.
I'm getting an answer coming from my logical mind that says.
Here is all the data that says we should.
Go in this direction. Do you agree?
Right, two very slightly different ways.
Of framing the exact same question.
(40:08):
And so by knowing ourselves and listening to ourselves, by being
able to open all those sensors and speaking from the place that
says this is really where this is coming from.
So I feel much more comfortable expressing it from there.
I don't have to tell everybody my process, but I know where I
am. It avoids us getting defensive.
It avoids us trying to defend our position.
(40:30):
It makes it easier for me. To hear.
Where the other person is comingfrom, even if they themselves
don't know. Because I can.
I've now worked on it so much ofmyself.
That I can hear it. This person is saying a
definitive but in reality it's agut instinct.
OK, I get it, so let me work on it.
Let me answer them in this way rather than getting, I don't
(40:52):
know, upset. That their.
Words are based on nothing. Maybe they have an intuition so
I can ask them, hey, you're saying we should take this
direction. Can you help me understand how
you got there? And now the person might say, I
don't know, we just need. To get there, great.
Can we put some testing in placeto see whether or not that is
the right direction? As opposed to.
The person saying well here's all my data.
That I have so you start to get like your.
(41:15):
Personal ecosystem is less defensive.
You don't have to like be able to know every, everything
because you've now understood. How I can?
Interact with these other peopleand therefore I build my teams.
Out to better do this. I can take in more diversity.
There's all the different thingsthat cascade from there.
That's great. So what is your final thoughts
(41:39):
for listeners on how to deliver a plant based practice or
reconnect with their nature or natural intelligence as a final
thought? Please final thought is.
Start from wherever you are. If you're somebody who's always
in an office and you have a house plant or you know, plant
that's sitting in office, plant in your house, just sit and take
(42:01):
some time with that plant. Then even if you don't want to
believe in plant communication, just totally fine, sit in
observation, right? Open yourself to the idea.
That by looking at this plant. At 360°.
By closing my eyes and maybe taking a deep breath and feeling
the oxygen that this plant. Gives out by.
Also being able to just touch the plants.
(42:24):
There are things that I can learn even if I just want to go
down the path of being with plants and spending a lot of
time with nature and in nature lowers my cortisol levels, so it
makes me less. Stressed out?
That is 1 aspect of what makes me more open to being able to
truly hear myself. But another piece of this is
(42:44):
that nature inspires in us all and wonder and that.
Curiosity is the core of. Being able to get anywhere.
So curiosity for myself, where did that come from?
Why did I speak that way? Where is that thought?
How do I work with that? And curiosity for others will
naturally lower defenses and make us more open to
(43:09):
exploration. That's great.
Huge thank you to Tigrea for your time.
Also, the incredible insights that you've shared open our
understanding around how to tap into nature, so that is more
supportive that we can move fromforce to flow and tap into our
natural intelligence. So if listeners want to find
(43:31):
more of your work, where can they find you, Tigrea?
Yeah, I'm pretty easy to find. Luckily having an unusual name,
everything is under my name. So my website is just
tigreagardenia.com and all of mysocial, whether you're talking
about LinkedIn or YouTube, Facebook, Instagram is all.
At. Tigrea Gardenia.
Great. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
So we have to remember that plants have been on the planet
for 470 million years. They are, you know, plants in
general are, are pioneer species.
Many of them, they're the ones that take barren area and turn
it into something. So even just biologically
speaking, there is so much we can learn about how a plant
(00:21):
steps into a location that has maybe just emerged because maybe
there was some kind of movement,seismic movement that created an
opening. Or in the case of a forest, you
had an old growth tree that maybe opened up a light gap.
Or we're talking about a forest fire that's come through and
ravaged an area, right? And so the inner plantness is
(00:44):
kind of the exact same thing from ourselves.
We evolved from plants. We have that part of us.
Inside, we know that plants havemany more senses active than we
as humans do. Welcome to Sustainability
Transformations podcast where weexplore bold ideas to drive
(01:07):
positive change for people, the community and business.
And today's guests is an ecosystems thinker and multi
passionate mentors, spiritually grounded, nature LED and
empowering. Atigria Gardenia is a certified
life coach, plant communication expert and founder of the
naturally conscious community, helping creative leaders drive
(01:28):
in alignment with nature, purpose and deep inner wisdom.
Degree. Your journey from Microsoft to
the various other companies is incredible.
What sparked your shift from high performance systems to
nature inspired leadership? What a.
Great question. Thank you.
First of all, thank you so much for having me here.
I'm always excited and passionate to talk about.
(01:51):
These subjects so I've. Gone through a few different
journeys and it's really interesting to always think back
what is the thing that took me from one place to another?
And especially when it comes to things like connecting to nature
in such a deep way. I mean, I'm a city.
Girl like I grew up. In a big city, as my mother
loves to always remind me, what are you doing in the middle of
(02:12):
nowhere? We're from the city, it's true.
We're from an island, to be honest.
But find the city of an island and really what connects me into
this? World.
Was a first realization and whatI call a plant reawakening,
which was a connection with a plant that helped me finally
understand that the plant is a being, a being of nature, an
(02:36):
actual living, quote UN quote person with agency.
And this all came from me from something called the Music of
the Plants, which is a device that allows plants.
To use their bioelectrical theirelectrophysiology.
To make music and when I connected in and I heard a plant
make music using this. Biofeedback device for the
(02:56):
first. Time I all of a sudden realized
that there was more going on andthis made me extremely.
Curious as to. What is that more and given the
fact that my background has technology as.
Well as spirituality as well as the arts I.
Use all of those different. Aspects to really.
Understand the natural world as a being of nature myself so
(03:20):
rather than looking at it. And even though I've worked in
things like bio mimicry and bio inspired design.
I always approach it. From the ethos of I'm a being of
nature and I'm looking to createwhether I'm designing a product
or social innovation, specifically as a being of
nature. How would I?
As a being of nature, if humans finally remembered that we're
(03:41):
part of nature. How do I?
Create like an ecosystem? How do I create something?
That doesn't have to have. Garbage cans all over the place.
Because the waste is recycled, how do I?
Think about the regeneration. How do I think about what
happens throughout the entire cycle and so that it's in
harmony with what's happening rather than thinking of it as
(04:04):
something separate? Hopefully that makes sense.
Makes perfect sense. You talk about reawakening for
inner plant nests. What does that mean and why is
it so transformational? Yeah.
Inert your plant so we have to remember that plants have been
on the planet for 470 million years They are you know, plants
(04:25):
in general are are pioneer species many of them they're the
ones that take barren area and turn it into something.
So even just biologically speaking, there is so much we
can learn about how a plant steps into a location that has
maybe just emerged because maybethere was some kind of movement
(04:45):
seismic movement that created anopening or in the case of a
forest, you had an old growth tree that maybe opened up a
light gap or we're talking abouta forest fire that's come
through and ravaged an area right.
The first species besides, you know, of course there are plants
and bacteria and sorry, excuse me, there's bacteria and fungi
(05:06):
that come in and then come in the plants to start to.
Rehabilitate or create HabitableHabitable.
Area and so the inner plantness is kind of the exact same thing
from ourselves. We evolved.
From plants we have that part ofus inside.
We know that plants have many more senses active than we as
(05:27):
humans do. So if I approach the world like.
That kind of pioneer species. Like the fact that I.
Myself have more senses and I think about it and this is.
Probably 1 of the biggest shiftsis.
Instead of thinking about it from just my animal nest which
allows me to run away when I. Screw up the area or.
(05:48):
I make a mistake. Or I have.
Something happening that I don'twant to deal with, I just run
away from it. But a plant is sessile.
A plant can't move. So your inner plantness is also
your presence. The fact that I have to be in
it, I have to sit and I have to open up all my senses.
I have to think of myself as a sensor and I have to bring in.
(06:08):
All of those senses to. Assess what is happening around
me and then from that. Area of rather.
Than avoidance but instead from expansiveness concentrate on
what it is that I want to focus on so my inner plantness is
cultivating presence it's. About.
Reawakening myself as sensor as having so many different types
(06:31):
of senses and. Also about.
Thinking of my decision making. Process as.
I take in everything and I trustthat I will know what to focus
on. So it's just a different way of.
Approaching it where? If I approach.
Everything from my animal Ness. Which is useful.
Because I am an animal, but and which is much more instinctual
and it's more movement. Based.
(06:53):
We have to. Find a way to work with both of
them. We have to be able to connect
because that's what makes us human is.
The fact that I have all of that.
I was just looking up even my own life where it was essential
to just stand, and that stand isso important.
So that's really good. What's the first thing plants
teach us about thriving and not just surviving?
(07:14):
Yeah, So again, because plants are sessile because they can't
run away, right, many times we tend to think in humans, as in,
for example, when we think of hunter gatherers, many of us
think they were just surviving, right?
Oh, my goodness. There's scarcity.
They don't know. But that's actually not true.
The. History and the science shows us
that in reality, these these early humans were so connected
(07:39):
to the land that they knew whereeverything was right.
They knew in what season or in what period of time.
They knew what the land offered them, and they knew how.
To not just take, but also. Give, in other words.
How? Whatever they produced or.
Even threw away would be reintegrated in order to
(07:59):
continue the ecosystem. So when you think about it in
those terms, you start to realize that, OK, wait a minute,
if I'm really connected, if I allow myself to step into that
part of myself that knows where that I can't run away, so
therefore I learn. How to use?
Everything I get to know my environment so well, then I move
(08:23):
out of survival mode because I don't have to have, I don't
know, 17 things or I don't have to.
Buy out of. Fear or I don't have.
To produce. And.
Take over space because if. I know how to use the
environment and work with the environment and be in harmony
with my environment and by my environment, to be clear, I'm
(08:45):
talking about any kind of environment, not just physical
environment, but also my psychological or my emotional
environment. These environments also are
extremely important because if Ithink of everything that I am,
everything that I do, that I think my talents, my skills, my
characteristics, all of them as being useful and that I just
have to. Figure out how they get used.
(09:07):
Then rather than living in fear because I'm living in scarcity,
there's not going to be enough resources instead, you know?
Where it is that you have to go.In order to achieve things, I'll
give you. A really silly but.
Practical examples Back when I worked at Microsoft, I was one
of my mentors gave me a book to read and it was.
Called How to Be a Rock Star at Work.
(09:28):
And it was really interesting because the concept.
Of this book is that the. True rock star is not the person
that knows more than anything. The true rock star is the
person. With the most amount of
connections the person that knows their environment knows.
All the people. So that in an emergency, for
example, they walk in and they're like, Oh my goodness,
(09:49):
what's happening in, I don't know, in a modern context, we
would say the system went down about, wait a minute, hold on,
let me call so and so over in this department because they
know how to do this, this and this.
And then I'm going to go call this person over here in this
other department because they know how to do this.
And I'll have them come over here.
And because we're friends and weknow each other and we know each
other's work, I'm sure I can getthem to work together on this
(10:10):
problem. The person that has the most
connections. Which is exactly.
What a plant does right, A plantis in their ecosystem.
They're creating all kinds of different relationships because
they need to know how to be ableto handle all kinds of
situations, and that's where youmove.
Out of the fear. That is what takes you into
survival mode and you move into thriving.
(10:31):
Because now I can, I know my my emergency situations are taken
care of. I know my basic functions are
going to be working. And then I can dedicate myself
to really looking beyond that, to thinking about what.
Is it that I? Expand into.
How do I evolve? How do I grow?
I take out of. Fear mode.
Where I have to hoard. And keep and do all these things
(10:54):
because I'm afraid I go out of competition because competition
in the natural world is really just something.
That you do for a short period of.
Time to gain a slight advantage and then you let it go and you
keep going off. Really, it is mutualisms,
mutually beneficial relationships, and relationships
in general, that make everythingmove into the world of thriving.
(11:17):
That's kids. So how do traditional
productivity systems within organizations fail those who are
multi fascinate within organizations?
Yeah, this is a really. Great question because it's
something that I think for organizations there's a.
Fear that, of course. If I have a bunch of people who
are neurodivergent, multi passionate and such, I have.
(11:39):
To like. Control them or try to.
Focus. Them, as opposed to again, going
to that plant metaphor we keep talking about, is if I allow
them to take everything in and instead teach them how to use
however it is that their mind works.
To weave together these skills. And.
Produce the output. That I want, then I.
(11:59):
Have people who are happier. More engaged and more exciting.
So the productivity thought that.
Says focus, discipline you have to do things in this way doesn't
work for the multi passionate mind.
The multi passionate mind instead needs to see the
connections between things We want to understand.
Why is it that when I listen to this style of music over here
(12:22):
and over here, when I, I don't know, go rock climbing on the
weekend and when I'm over here and I sit down and I start to
write code and. Over there I have these.
Deep conversations with somebodyabout.
Ballet. How is it that all?
Of these things instead form a ecosystem for myself that allows
me to understand that the music produces mathematical functions
(12:46):
in my mind that help with my coding and that the ballet shows
me that my coding needs to be graceful and it needs to to flow
into something so rather than thinking about it as separate
processes it. Actually.
Flows and then the rock climbingshows me how my coding needs to
have this ability to persevere and set safety mechanisms in
order to ensure that there's just the right amount of
(13:08):
redundancy to not be weighted down because of course, if I'm
rock climbing, I don't want that, but I need to be safe and
secure, right? So the multi passionate mind.
Actually uses all these. Somewhat separate things to
instead really connect them together and if instead the
employer or if the company or the group encourage them.
(13:30):
To explore why. They do these things.
What? Do they get out of?
It then they will naturally wantto apply it to the work they're
doing. So it's not about focus, it's
about finding the connections and then understanding how to
apply those connections. And that is what again instead
of going into scarcity mode, which discipline for a multi
(13:52):
passionate mind is scarcity, I'meither going to get bored.
Because if I have to. Do one thing.
I can't do it. I'm I'm going to get bored and
I'm going to get frustrated because my mind doesn't work
that way. My mind naturally jumps from one
thing to the other, and it's more important that if I
understand that each one of themhas a, has a purpose and has
something that it's helping me understand, then.
(14:14):
I will apply whatever I. Learned in one into the other.
That's impressive connection from the various activities.
So looking at the plant model for sustainable growth, how does
the plants teach us about creative expression or flow
based success mechanisms? Yeah, it's very connected.
(14:35):
To what I was just saying because when you're looking at
it. If you start to build.
A business, for example, a department or even a company
from the perspective of an ecosystem, right.
So I think. About it as.
How do I create an ecosystem model?
First of all, it's transdisciplinary, right?
I know. That I have to have.
Different people who do different things or different
(14:56):
sections that do different things, and I think much more.
About how do these weave? Into one another.
So I don't think of them as separate, but I think about
them. As how is it that they flow?
So for example, if I when I lookat an ecosystem, I might have
two ecosystems standing right next to one another.
I don't know the ocean and then the beach.
(15:17):
Right, but. There's an ecotone in the
middle. Which is the area where these?
2 overlap and you flow from one to the other and this helps us
better understand what is going to be the flow between these.
Two, how do I do this? Especially because ecotones.
Tend to be areas of high, high, high innovation and high
(15:38):
experimentation. Which means I should never
think. That the area that overlaps.
Between two sections, whether there be?
Two roles or two whole. Departments or two whole
industries. The overlap can never be a point
of stability. If you try to stabilize that,
(15:59):
it's always going to be a failure because that's.
Not the place where stability comes from.
That's the place where where. Mutations, experimentations, new
ideas and creativity come from So when we.
Start to look at how. Ecosystems, which of course you
know, are. Are the world's.
Growing, you know, environments.It's how the world has created
(16:20):
itself. Then I start to understand that
if I build things based on thosemodels.
If I. Look at it in those know when am
I supposed to stabilize when instead?
Do I allow lots of? Mistakes and changes and growing
and expand and experimenting andthings like that.
So I start to see. How different parts of my
(16:44):
whether we're talking about a business?
Or otherwise, how is it that they are supposed to?
Run and I don't apply the wrong criteria or.
Success criteria to each. One of them, and I think that
this is a big place where we make mistakes, we start to think
that everything is supposed to have this model, but that's not
how the natural world works and partnerships take a time, they
(17:08):
have periods of deep experimentation and.
Also there are. Some kinds of relationships in
nature that are temporary and some that are more long term.
And that's another part that we as human beings don't think
about. For example, competition, as I
said earlier, can never be long term because when you do long
term competition in the natural world, somebody dies.
(17:30):
It's in your energy, you know ittakes out all your energy to
compete. So if you.
Build, for example, two teams orto, you know, companies that are
always competing. You're always going to go into
burnout. You're always going to be
exhausted. I remember that when I worked at
Microsoft at the time, but Bill Gates was.
Really really great at this because he would like task 2.
(17:54):
Teams with the same. Project, but first he.
Wouldn't tell them so that they wouldn't have competition at the
beginning. He would let them innovate then
when they reached a certain amount of stability, or if that
innovation would. Start to to to stale.
Out he would then tell each. Each other that they existed.
Then they would. Compete for a while.
And that would bring out anotherflurry of new innovation.
(18:16):
And then when? Kind of like a really.
When he started to see the emergence of whatever it was
that he needed, he would merge the teams and find what was the
best combination of it. And it was a Meccan.
I mean he. Used it several.
Times and it was a really interesting mechanism.
Sometimes it worked really great, sometimes he wasn't great
at the integration part, which is a big problem a lot of
software companies have. But the idea of it.
(18:38):
Very much models something that could work.
The competition should be limited to certain periods of
time, to certain lengths in order for them to work, and
certain areas should never. Be thought of as stable.
And other areas. Should always be stabilized, so.
Looking at it from these different perspectives, like a
(18:59):
plant would experience that ecosystem helps us better
understand what does long term stability or better said, long
term sustainability and regeneration really look like.
I'm curious to know, aren't humans in workplace or people
generally competitive? Is it a natural inclination you
(19:20):
know to want to compete? And how do individuals or maybe
you know, you can share some, you know, light on that place?
Yeah, this is a this. Is something.
This is a misnomer, right? This is one of.
Those false realities that we have, which is basically we've.
Been conditioned to. Believe that the way I.
Get ahead is by competing when again if we step back and we
(19:41):
look at the natural world. There's some really, really
great. Articles out there.
I remember that Jaina Baumiser from IO Mimicry 3.8.
Wrote a great article about. This and there's been and also
Jeanine Benyus from Biomimicry 3.8 has talked.
About this subject. But if you look at the natural
world, again, competition is notour natural.
State if you look at. Children competition is not our
(20:02):
natural. State right?
Sure, we might have moments, butit's not an inclination that's
born into. Us that we.
Always have to be competitive. It's actually the way our.
Society teaches us our society. Teaches us that I have to be
better. But that if I'm not better than
somebody else, I'm worse. So you don't ever want to be
(20:23):
labeled as worse. And so that's why you get into a
competition. We think about it in so many
different ways, rather than looking at competition in
limited places where it can be used to boost performance.
Or to boost or have. A new transformation occur and
then they have. To work together to stabilize.
(20:44):
That to create what the foundation upon which you land
new things. So really the natural world
works more on cycles, right? Whether we're talking about, you
know, yearly cycles around the, you know, around the sun or
whether we're talking about monthly.
Cycles or whether we're. Talking about the seasons, all
of it is based on cycles and thecycles include.
(21:05):
Rest because there are periods where.
All species rest, nobody blooms.Forever, right there are.
Periods of rest. Some have wider dormancy.
Like if I'm an annual right and I'm going into a bulb, I spend
the long part of my life in a bulb, right?
So we have this. And then maybe there's a little
bit of competition at some point, but then there is this
(21:28):
period of, you know, OK, I've now bloomed.
I'm now who I'm supposed to be. I'm going to get everything I
need here, right? Sun, nutrients, everything,
everything. And then now I'm going back into
my bulb. Right.
So we have to look at. All of these different elements
and realize. That society has taught us a
series of. Things, but those when you get
(21:51):
into the lessons, they come froma place of scarcity and fear.
When the natural world operates on cycles, that also means that
a lot of our big time models might not work.
In other words, should a companyreally think?
About yearly profit over profit.Increases.
Is that actually natural in and of itself?
(22:11):
And the answer is no. There.
Should be periods again of. Rest periods of.
Stabilization, this is the new norm.
This is our product line. This is where things change.
These cycles need to be built into our systems, but until
they're built into our reward systems, right what we think.
About as success. If we don't build them into our
(22:32):
success models, we cannot createsustainable business.
We cannot. Create people who feel like they
could. They're aligned with their own
inner rhythms. To find success, markers need to
be varied also in and of themselves.
Rest. Is successful making time for?
Rest is. Really important in the natural
(22:54):
world and it is not seen in other words, taking care of my
personal positive mental health is not seen by a company's line
as something that is successful in my clients, you know, or in
my employees where I don't look at a different.
Factors, that is what? Makes a system sustainable over
long periods of time. Why is it that an old growth
(23:15):
ecosystem like a forest can? Last for centuries, right?
Well, how do they do that? It's not always growing and
expanding. This one's growing over here,
while this one over here here isresting, while this one over
here is stabilizing while this one over here is starting to
emerge. Like there are all.
Everything is going through its natural cycles and this.
(23:38):
Allows the overall old growth. Start, you know, the forest to
continue forward. So we need to start thinking
about things in a very differentway so that humanity so that
humans can re connect back. To their true.
Essence, their true nature as animals which have instinctual
pieces and competitive pieces, and also as their inner
(24:01):
plantness, their presence, theirability to take in large amounts
of input and and move that through and flow with that.
The next area I'm looking at is listening.
Listening skills is so scarce, whether is listening to myself
or listening to each other and it comes about from where there
(24:22):
are myths around how to ensure that communication is as
effective I'm cursing the What is plant music and how can it
change the way we listen to ourselves, each other and.
I love this, I love this. Question because it is true.
We as humans are kind of again conditioned out.
Of the idea of. Listening and really hearing
beyond even just. The.
(24:44):
Words being spoken first and foremost, one of the things, one
of the dangers. Is that we rely.
Too much on words and language, but specifically, we'll take an
example between us 2, right? Both of us are speaking in
English, but we're speaking froma very different contextual and
cultural understanding of the language, right?
(25:04):
Both of us have lived in multiple countries.
Both of us experience English from different points of view.
And so therefore your frame of reference is very different from
my frame of reference. So I'm being careful to modify
my words, not as a inhibiting myself, but as an ensuring that
I'm communicating my what I wantto be saying.
(25:26):
And when I say words that I think maybe they're not
understandable because, you know, maybe you don't know what
bio mimicry is as nature inspired design to define them
and to put them into a context that makes it easy to
understand, right. But not just that, my words also
have inflections and rhythms andways that I'm speaking and that
(25:50):
change the context. And that, again, are very
culturally significant, right? For some cultures, a high pitch
means something different than alow.
Pitch A pause could have a very specific.
Meaning to it rather than longerphrases.
In essence, language is a musicality.
It has tone and pitch and frequency and all these
(26:12):
elements. So the music of the plants.
Is, as I said earlier, a device.It's a musical instrument for
plants using the electrophysiology of a plants,
the. The the biofeedback.
System that the plant has and itmeasures the impedance between
the leaf and the root system andthis allows them, the plants to
make music The interesting part is that this music is very
(26:33):
different from human music because again human music is
conditioned right we we hear rock'n'roll and we like it and
so we imitate it and we continuously are innovating but
on a very similar base pattern because that becomes.
The base of what? Our society considers pleasant
or, you know, loved or anything like that, but plants don't care
(26:54):
about any of. That right, they have their.
Own way of dealing with things so when we hear plant music and
we think about the fact that language my.
Words is a musicality. And everything is a musicality.
All expression is. Now it starts to open you to a
new way of reading. What is it that the plant is
experiencing? And that makes me wonder, well
(27:15):
then, what other senses are there?
Am I really hearing the whole story?
You know, as you talk talk, I'm looking at your face, I'm
looking at your arms, I'm I'm listening to all the different
sounds in your. Voice because.
Working with plants, I've expanded my senses.
I've understand that there's waymore to seeing and hearing and
(27:37):
smelling and tasting than what we've been trained to do, and
that if I allow myself to reallytaste.
With the. Fullest expression of my taste,
then I can get more. Out of whatever.
It is that I'm tasting, whether it's tasting the air right now
or whether it's tasting my tea right it's.
It's. All coming from different pieces
(27:59):
of senses that I'm putting together and this then helps me
communicate better. The combination of understanding
that relationships are more thanjust.
I love you. You're my friend, you're my
boss, you're my parents. Or whatever those types of.
Relationships, but that plants also create many other types of
relationships, and in nature there are many other types of
(28:20):
relationships and I. Couple that, I put that together
with the idea of. Wait a minute, communication is
coming from a whole body experience and the only way that
I can understand what somebody else is saying to me.
Is I have to also? First and foremost, understand
(28:40):
myself. As you said, I have.
To be able to listen to myself, which means hearing when my body
screams, know at something or understanding that that pinch.
That I just felt. Was really meant because it came
from something that was giving me an indication.
I have to listen not just to my thoughts, thinking about the
(29:03):
conversation running in my head,but to how my body interprets
things because there's, you know, many thought processes.
That say that we really. Have three different minds.
We have the brain mind, the logical mind, right?
We have the heart mind, the emotional the mind and we have
the gut mind, right the the instinctual response mind.
(29:25):
And there are even scientific. Studies that start to show us
that the way that. The bacteria and the way that
the organisms that experience that I that live within my body,
maybe not always physically within the areas I'm thinking
of, but that they live within mybody, actually have response
mechanisms and shoot off chemical signatures as well as
(29:48):
electrical signatures, But we'renot taught to listen to them.
So how can I interpret what you're saying to me if I don't
even know what I'm saying to me?And so working with a plants,
for example, which is what I often tell people, and I tell
this a lot to with my clients, we work on this, which is
sometimes when you're so inside of a frame of reference, like
(30:11):
what it means to be human. If I step out of that frame of
reference into something safe like being a plant, and I think
of myself. As all right, how does the?
Plant for example, smell the situation.
What? What is it that?
The plant is smelling for. And what is the plant also
emitting? Because I can't smell my
(30:32):
pheromones. I mean, of course, if I haven't
taken a shower in a while, I might be.
Able to but. My body, I can't really smell
all the chemicals that I give off, right?
But yet I know. That there are people that are
like, oh, you just have a specific.
Smell. That's how I know.
You're here, so OK. If I step out into and I think
(30:53):
of myself kind of in my plant Ness, I'm present.
I can't run away. What am I taking in through
that? Then I can start to expand and
then when I come back into my human model, I, I, I'm not as
judgmental, I'm not as conditioned because I've been
able to experience it from a different point of view.
(31:15):
And then I can integrate it backinto my human way of experience.
So it allows me to 1st listen tomyself much better to hear.
The truth of what these. Different parts of me, not just
what I convinced myself. That I thought I heard.
Or not based on partial information and then I can.
Share with you. And I can hear, not only can I
(31:36):
express myself better, regardless of whether or not I
ever work on words, but my whole, my whole body will be
expressing and sharing with you.And I'm able to hear you more
completely because I'm going to be hearing you with my entire
body, rather than just one part that has learned that this word
(31:56):
means this thing, and this word that means this thing, which
might not even be the same. Word that you were taught.
So I'm not as. Fearful also of.
Asking for clarification, I'm not as fearful of saying I think
I heard you say. This.
But is this really what? You meant I'm not as scared to
get into a conversation because I'm very comfortable with the
(32:16):
idea that. We all.
Hear differently and I and the only way to get clarity is if
you and I kind of communicate. Across that and so.
I'm much more open to hearing different ideas, different
thoughts, and it starts to literally make it easier for me
to to. Have a true full picture of.
(32:39):
Something rather than a limited.Scope that our words.
Can say that was a very long answer, hopefully it made sense.
Yeah, it shows how important listening is and the various
aspects which if we could do more of, would save a lot of
work or personal relationships. So you've worked with clients
from various industries. Can you share an example of
(33:02):
someone transforming their entire belief system using a
plant based framework? Wow, there's so many examples.
I mean, I've had, I've had clients in many, many different
types of industries and experiences and really seeing
them grow is one of my favorite things because this example of
what I was talking about of. Of the fact of first.
(33:24):
Starting with the listening of within, I think is crucial, and
it's a work that goes hand in hand also with realizing that
the norms and conditions that we've been taught are not.
Always conducive to where? We want to get in life.
So for example I've had had clients.
That have had full careers even successful careers, but.
(33:48):
Then now when their career is over and they're trying to move
into another their stage of life.
Have realized that where their career they were.
Able to kind of only have that one piece.
It was because as this if they try to.
Follow that same model that worked for them into the next
stage of life. It doesn't work.
And it's because when again, looking at it from kind of an
(34:12):
ecosystem perspective, we have different levels of secession,
right? A young an early secession,
which means I'm I'm a newly being formed ecosystem has a.
Series. Of different characteristics and
a different ways of expressing and goals.
But then when I get into the next level like a next next
level ecosystem, I now have different expectations.
(34:35):
So by using kind of the models that nature.
Provides to us. Thinking about it almost like a
biomimic sense, we first understand the deep pattern.
So for example, one of my clients who.
Like I said, had this. Wonderful, Really great,
Successful. Career.
It was very focused. And she tried to apply that same
logic to what came next. And it was really.
(34:57):
Funny because her job was. Very.
Technical. It was very high stress.
It was something. She was very good at because.
She was able to compartmentalizeand so it was an Emergency
Management type of situation. So she was.
Always had to be. One focus and this is what I'm
doing. Very calm and even.
Keel but to do. That she had to put everything
(35:19):
that is her emotional life into a little box.
And when you're young, young, not so much.
Age wise but. Young as in a young ecosystem,
which is kind of how she. Was.
It was. Fine for her because an
ecosystem is stretching and expanding in certain directions.
There's lots of movement happening, but it's a focus type
movement when she moved into a later stage in life.
(35:42):
After she retired, she. Tried to apply the same logic
and she came to me because she'slike this isn't working like I
don't even know who I am anymoreand so we were.
We we evaluated how her life. How her ecosystem life had moved
and what stage of succession wasthat life in?
And then we. Looked at the characteristics.
That that kind of life has. And it was funny because this is
(36:05):
a person who, like I said, very determined, very focused.
Every everybody would kind of goto her when there's a problem.
And then one day she we were working on different aspects and
she was realizing that her life now critics was much more
expansive. There was some things that were
running on automatic and then that was giving her an
opportunity. To.
Focus in different areas and shejust declared one day.
(36:27):
She's like, I've realized. I am an artist, something she
would have never. Said for herself.
And she was like, I am a creative artist.
Because. She had been trying to do
everything in the kind of mechanistic way that she had
learned, and now she had. Realized that she was at a
stage. Of life and in her entire
ecosystem was supporting her ability to now test and mutate
(36:52):
and play. And she didn't need to be
stable. She could be unstable, she could
have an amount of instability and exploration that in the
earlier. Stages she had.
Passed through that when she wasvery young and then had moved
into the stabilization, stabilization ecosystem life and
now she was in a place of deep exploration and that gave her
(37:13):
personal permission to really think about her life, not from
who have I been, but who am I now?
How do I explore that? Now.
Very practical example that we can relate to.
So whether it's individuals or sustainability professionals, we
have to work in an environment that is building trust and
(37:37):
collaborating teams are not working in silos.
So you you may have a supply chain team, the marketing team,
sales and other teams working insilos.
So how can we build a personal and professional ecosystem that
mirrors nature based on what we've discussed that is more
supportive, diverse and inflow? Yeah, so the first and.
(37:57):
Foremost, I would say is going back to the conversation we had
earlier about personal listening, oftentimes the
difficulty. That I have with others besides
whatever the other. Person is going through or the
other group is going through. Oftentimes it also comes from a
place of not really knowing myself.
Where am I in my cycle? What do my cycles look like?
Whether we're talking about daily cycles, for example, I
(38:18):
talk often about the fact. That we all have daily.
Cycles. There are some things I do
better in the morning and some things I do better in the
afternoon. So if I know that about myself,
I try not to have the converse like I try to focus my
conversations or my explorationswith others in those.
Periods that work well. For me, I try to harmonize my
(38:38):
cycles. To the way.
That my working environment is, so maybe I'm much more creative
in the like late afternoon so I see if with my team.
I could schedule super creative.Meetings in the afternoon, maybe
in the morning I'm. Really good at strategy so I'll
try to. Organize my strategy meetings in
the morning times. Maybe there's like at the
(39:01):
beginning of the month, I'm better at some things and the
end of the month, so I can set my recurring meetings in a
certain way or how my dynamics are.
In other words, the most important thing is to know
yourself. And so that deep listening that
we were talking about, so that my, I know when my gut is
speaking, my emotions are speaking, or when my mind, my,
my, my, my brain or my logic is speaking and I can ask
(39:25):
questions. Not saying 1 is better than the
other because the truth of the matter is they're not, they're
all important. But I know which one it is so
that I can frame the question correctly.
I don't frame a gut instinct as an.
Absolute because there's data. Behind it, I frame it as a gut
instinct, like I'm getting a sense from what you're saying.
(39:47):
That we should go there. How can we explore whether.
That's the right. Direction very different from.
I'm getting an answer coming from my logical mind that says.
Here is all the data that says we should.
Go in this direction. Do you agree?
Right, two very slightly different ways.
Of framing the exact same question.
(40:08):
And so by knowing ourselves and listening to ourselves, by being
able to open all those sensors and speaking from the place that
says this is really where this is coming from.
So I feel much more comfortable expressing it from there.
I don't have to tell everybody my process, but I know where I
am. It avoids us getting defensive.
It avoids us trying to defend our position.
(40:30):
It makes it easier for me. To hear.
Where the other person is comingfrom, even if they themselves
don't know. Because I can.
I've now worked on it so much ofmyself.
That I can hear it. This person is saying a
definitive but in reality it's agut instinct.
OK, I get it, so let me work on it.
Let me answer them in this way rather than getting, I don't
(40:52):
know, upset. That their.
Words are based on nothing. Maybe they have an intuition so
I can ask them, hey, you're saying we should take this
direction. Can you help me understand how
you got there? And now the person might say, I
don't know, we just need. To get there, great.
Can we put some testing in placeto see whether or not that is
the right direction? As opposed to.
The person saying well here's all my data.
That I have so you start to get like your.
(41:15):
Personal ecosystem is less defensive.
You don't have to like be able to know every, everything
because you've now understood. How I can?
Interact with these other peopleand therefore I build my teams.
Out to better do this. I can take in more diversity.
There's all the different thingsthat cascade from there.
That's great. So what is your final thoughts
(41:39):
for listeners on how to deliver a plant based practice or
reconnect with their nature or natural intelligence as a final
thought? Please final thought is.
Start from wherever you are. If you're somebody who's always
in an office and you have a house plant or you know, plant
that's sitting in office, plant in your house, just sit and take
(42:01):
some time with that plant. Then even if you don't want to
believe in plant communication, just totally fine, sit in
observation, right? Open yourself to the idea.
That by looking at this plant. At 360°.
By closing my eyes and maybe taking a deep breath and feeling
the oxygen that this plant. Gives out by.
Also being able to just touch the plants.
(42:24):
There are things that I can learn even if I just want to go
down the path of being with plants and spending a lot of
time with nature and in nature lowers my cortisol levels, so it
makes me less. Stressed out?
That is 1 aspect of what makes me more open to being able to
truly hear myself. But another piece of this is
(42:44):
that nature inspires in us all and wonder and that.
Curiosity is the core of. Being able to get anywhere.
So curiosity for myself, where did that come from?
Why did I speak that way? Where is that thought?
How do I work with that? And curiosity for others will
naturally lower defenses and make us more open to
(43:09):
exploration. That's great.
Huge thank you to Tigrea for your time.
Also, the incredible insights that you've shared open our
understanding around how to tap into nature, so that is more
supportive that we can move fromforce to flow and tap into our
natural intelligence. So if listeners want to find
(43:31):
more of your work, where can they find you, Tigrea?
Yeah, I'm pretty easy to find. Luckily having an unusual name,
everything is under my name. So my website is just
tigreagardenia.com and all of mysocial, whether you're talking
about LinkedIn or YouTube, Facebook, Instagram is all.
At. Tigrea Gardenia.
Great. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
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