August 10, 2025 • 29 mins
Summary
The conversation explores the sustainability of fashion, emphasizing the importance of wearing garments multiple times to reduce waste. It highlights the contrasting habits of Gen Z consumers, who tend to discard clothing after fewer wears, and discusses strategies for enhancing the versatility of garments to encourage longer use.
speaker bio:
Julia K. Dietmar is the CEO of OpenWardrobe andformer Chief Product Officer at Vue.ai. She’s redefining how we engage withclothes—through AI-powered wardrobe tools that promote personalization, reuse,and smarter fashion choicescontact:
www.openwardrobe.co
www.linkedin.com/in/julia-k-dietmar-083810/
Takeaways
If you buy a garment, wear it at least 30 times for sustainability.
Gen Z typically wears garments 5-7 times before discarding.
Making garments versatile can help consumers visualize multiple outfits.
Sustainability in fashion requires a shift in consumer behavior.
Encouraging consumers to think of outfits with different accessories is key.
The fashion industry needs to adapt to changing consumer habits.
Versatile clothing can lead to more sustainable consumption patterns.
Understanding the wear habits of different generations is crucial.
Fashion brands should focus on creating long-lasting garments.
Sustainability is not just a trend, but a necessity in fashion.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Sustainable Fashion and AI
01:15 The Journey to Wardrobe Sustainability
02:32 Empowering Mindful Fashion Choices
04:07 The Role of AI in Personalization
06:59 Understanding Consumer Behavior and Wardrobe Utilization
08:40 The Influence of Media on Consumer Choices
11:11 Educating Consumers Through Tools
13:17 Lola AI: Beyond Basic Styling Apps
17:08 Consumer Choices and the Impact of Pricing
19:17 Adapting to Modern Shopper Values
20:31 The Future of Fashion: Quality Over Quantity
22:08 Contributing to a Circular Economy
22:58 Advice for Entrepreneurs in Sustainability and AI
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
And what we do know is if you, from the sustainability point of
view, if you're buying a garmentand you wear it, you need to
wear it at least 30 times for this garment to be sustainable.
A lot. But if you compare it to
averages, especially Gen. Z's, they wear garments maybe
five to seven times on the average before discarding it,
right? So 30 times.
(00:20):
How do you do it? You need to be able to make it a
little bit more versatile. So how do you make it a little
bit versatile is you just envision it in many different
outfits with different accessories for different
occasions. And that is something that we're
helping consumers do. So if you can visualize it 30
times, you'll probably wear it 30 times.
(00:47):
Welcome to Sustainability Transformations podcast where we
explore bold ideas to drive positive change for people, the
community and business. And today's guest is visionary
product strategist, AI innovatoras sustainability advocates and
a fashion tech pioneer. Julia Ditma is the CEO of Open
Wardrobe and former chief product officer at Free AI.
(01:08):
She's redefining how we engage with cloves through AI powered
wardrobe to start promote personalization, reuse, smart of
fashion choices. And the key goal of our
discussion is exploring how to reimagine fashion with AI from
and retail waste, wardrobe intelligence, and how those
building conscious closets to fashion tech.
(01:30):
Welcome Julia. You've built an AI platform that
changed how retailers operate. What personally drew you into
tackling wardrobe sustainability?
Hi, Inoke, Thanks for having me on your podcast.
Yeah. So what what drew me to
sustainability, this is my previous work at View dot AI and
(01:51):
even before that at Thread Up, which is a second hand clothing
platform mainly in the US and for women's and children's
clothing. While I was in my previous job
at U dot AI, I worked with many apparel brands around the world.
We always talked about how to better provide these brands with
(02:11):
insights on consumers preferences and trends so that
brands can better plan and better forecasts what's going to
be popular with their customers in the following seasons and
have a much better way to land production of an assortment and
production of their lines. As we all know, apparel industry
(02:33):
is overproducing, right? And a lot of times we have many
clothing items that are not soldand they're being destroyed.
In the worst case scenario, they're just being burned or
adopted landfills. And best case scenarios, they go
to heavy discounts, which kind of promotes impulsive buying
from consumers. And that leads to closets that
(02:57):
are full of stuff that is not worn.
And that in turn kind of createssignals to retailers to produce
things that people don't necessarily want.
So it's kind of a vicious cycle.So what we're trying to solve is
really empowering consumers to buy some smarter and dress more
mindfully. And this is where our tools are
(03:17):
coming into play. Can you walk us through your
journey from leading View AI to founding the Open Wardrobe?
Yeah. So it's as I said, I worked with
many retailers and brands aroundthe world and they kept coming
back with same questions. And the questions were how do I
know more about my customer? How do I know more about
(03:41):
preferences? Because in many cases,
especially brands that don't have huge assortments, people
come to them maybe once a season, right?
And even with all this smart personalization tools and AI
that's power and personalizationand build this rich profiles, we
can only kind of figure out whatpeople like in that particular
season, for example, in that particular collection, but it's
(04:03):
not necessarily translatable or transferable to the subsequent
ones. And with sparse data like this
is very, very difficult to really predict what's going to
be popular in the next season. So there are all kinds of tools
around that with social listening and looking at
Instagrams, but it's almost likelooking at Instagram.
Is it is it really a trend or isit like something that already
(04:26):
happened and people are trying to just kind of sell that stuff.
So that's why we decided, OK, Sowhat if we created a way for
users to easily digitize what they already have and then we
create kind of profiles based based on that and turn that into
insights for for retailers completely anonymously, right?
(04:47):
Like not none of the data is shared.
So that's how the idea started. So from my work in AI and
personalization, we kind of got into more of the consumer facing
application with empowering users to more mindful address.
OK, that's good. So what was the aha moment that
made you shift from that retail AI to the wardrobe?
(05:10):
Yeah, I don't know if there was a really.
Aha moment. But what really kind of keeps me
going is our users are very passionate and very passionate
about being able to be smarter about how their wardrobes are
structured. Because you know, it's a very
common problem that especially women have Like you stare at
(05:33):
your closet, which is completelyfull and you think I have
nothing to wear, right? So it's very, very common
problem. So how do we teach people to
smaller wardrobes, but smarter in a way?
So what we do besides AI is justone component of what we do, but
what we also do is we teach you how to select clothing for
(05:55):
yourself. And it's not hard rules, right?
It's just guidelines. So for people who know how to
dress themselves and how to whatthey like and what they don't
like, it's probably not that bigof an issue.
But for most of us, buy an impulse because it's on sale or
sometimes we buy multiple of thesame thing because we like it
and then we end up not wearing it.
(06:16):
So we're teaching you how to select clothes more properly,
how to visualize how it fits into your current wardrobe.
So for example, with our Lola AIassistant, it's a styling
assistant really. You can access your wardrobe and
Lola AI through our browser extension from any e-commerce
(06:37):
site. So if you are let's say on Marks
and Spencer, for example, which is I know is popular in the UK,
you look at a pair of trousers or you're looking at the new
shirt or you're looking at the new sweater.
You can immediately say, show mehow it would look and work with
what I already right. And then we're helping you just
visualize how you could possiblywear it in many different ways
(07:00):
and for different occasions. A lot of us when we buy an
outfit, especially men, I know men do it a lot.
You buy an outfit, you look at the mannequin, it's wearing an
outfit, you look OK. I like it, I buy everything,
right? And that's how you wear it most
of the time. So there's not a lot of
creativity around how to pair this with anything else in your
closet. And what we do know is if you,
(07:23):
from the sustainability point ofview, if you're buying a garment
and you wear it, you need to wear it at least 30 times for
this garment to be sustainable, right?
30 times. 30 * 30 times at leastit doesn't sound like a lot, but
if you compare it to averages, especially Gen.
Z's, they wear garments maybe five to seven times on the
(07:43):
average before discarding it, right?
So 30 times. How do you do it?
You need to be able to make it alittle bit more versatile.
So how do you make it a little bit versatile is you just
envision it, envision it in manydifferent outfits with different
accessories for different occasions.
And that is something that we'rehelping consumers do.
(08:03):
So if you can visualize it 30 times, you'll probably wear it
30 times. And then for people who are
really into tracking what they wear, how often they wear it, we
have all kinds of statistics that they can track.
You don't have to, but people find it useful.
There is a very popular number that people are tracking is cost
per wear. So if you buy something for £100
(08:26):
and then you wear it 10 times, it costs you £10 per wear.
So the lower your cost per wear,the more kind of sustainable it
is, right. So, so those are kind of the the
tools that we're providing. Yeah.
So I'm curious to know what are the key factors that causes
people to dispose and not wear it 30 times or five times.
(08:48):
The obvious ones are wear and tear and the obvious ones are
I've wanted enough and the people who know me have seen
wear it. And it's an outfit which I take
to occasions, for example. But I'm curious to know what are
some surprises on that list. Yeah, So lifestyle changes, for
example, so we've, we, we saw a very big shift with after COVID,
(09:10):
right? People had a wardrobe that was
more geared for going out or going to the office.
And then all of a sudden we're all staying home, right?
So that's not getting born. So we, we saw shifts with COVID,
we see shifts with lifestyle changes like you are a new mom
going to work or you are gettingready to retire and then you're
(09:32):
reducing your in office hours, for example.
So things like that. We also see people in urban
areas that have more of their wardrobe for special occasion or
kind of date nights going out. And those are not something that
you wear on a regular basis. You, you wear it when you have
those occasions. So this occasion wear tends to
(09:55):
be one of the garments that people wear less typically.
And those are also the ones thatare more costly.
So they're in the costly for where if you're tracking that
metric is typically high for those garments.
So again, there are ways of how you can help yourself and how
you can reduce all of that underutilization.
That's good. I'm always intrigued with
(10:16):
there's a lot of young people, millennials and agencies, for
example, who care a lot about the environment or climate
change, but are also equally guilty with the less utilization
of clothing. I'm curious to know what the
causes of on one side they are very keen about the environment
(10:38):
and climate change, but on the other side that perhaps for a
lack of a better word or tap in this overconsumption.
What do you think is causing that challenge?
A lot of that is just a social media and following influencers
that kind of influencing you into believing that you always
need to have something new. And what we're trying to teach
(11:00):
our users is instead of following trends, figure out how
you want to show up and what story you want to tell with your
clothing. Because through clothing with we
tell stories, we really present ourselves through our facades
first, right before people know as they see this book cover, so
to speak. It's I, I know it's difficult
(11:20):
when you are really kind of in that environment where you're
being constantly bombarded and influenced, but this is probably
one of the biggest culprits. So if you, if you look on
YouTube, if you look on Instagram, there are lots of
whole videos like, oh, I just bought this.
I received this box from brand XYZ and let's unbox it and see
(11:41):
what I bought. What people don't realize a lot
of times that those boxes that arrive, they're they're not
gonna get worn. They're just people.
People have them just for the purpose of creating those that
content, right? And either it gets returned or
it just gets discarded or whatever that is.
And another, another thing that people don't realize a lot of
(12:02):
times that garments that get returned very often they do not
get restocked and resolved. It's getting better, but with
many e-commerce especially, it's, it's much cheaper for the
retailer to throw it away or discard it, then restock it.
It's kind of another thing that people need to realize.
And then maybe then they'll, they'll be, oh, maybe that's not
(12:25):
such a great idea for me to follow people who are doing this
whole. So that's one.
And then another one is the proliferation of retailers like
Sheen, for example, that sell you everything so cheaply.
It's even with people with best intentions who say that they
want to live sustainably and they want to buy from
(12:46):
sustainable brands. When it comes to it, cheap and
cute wins a lot at times, right?So if it's something that I like
and it only costs me 5 lbs or 10lbs, like, why wouldn't I buy it
even if it falls apart after thefirst two washes, right?
At the end of the day, that's kind of how consumers behave.
(13:06):
Economics is such a powerful thing.
It's such an important part of key decision making.
On the first part, the success of the industry that is Open
Wardrobe or the Lola AI depends on educating the customer.
Because when we hear about education, we tend to hear about
educating employees. But how do you think it is so
(13:27):
critical to educate the customerfor the success or the
implementation of these ideas which were discussed?
Yeah, when I say that we're educating, I don't mean we're
lecturing. Yeah, right.
We're providing tools that are fun, hopefully and are useful
and kind of nudge people towardssustainable practices.
(13:49):
So with Lol AI, we have, you know, the same main, the main
function of Lol AI is outfits recommendation.
And it starts with recommending outfits based on the knowledge
of our whole universe of of our users.
And then as you interact with it, it starts adapting to your
specific tastes. So it's kind of starting to give
you your specific outfits in more of the style that you
(14:12):
prefer. We also have kind of it's kind
of educational tool, but it's, it's not really because if you
go through, for example, our style blueprint analysis and we
determine your style personalityand your body shape and your
dominant coloring, we're kind ofguiding you through saying,
Enoch, you look really good and darker, kind of a deeper colors.
(14:37):
And for your body shape, these are kind of the silhouettes that
will work for you. So it does two things.
First of all, it kind of teachesyou what works for your
particular silhouette. And the second thing is it helps
you shop smarter so that whatever you buy is most more
likely to fit you and look good on you and you like it.
(14:58):
Then you buy it because you saw it on a friend or on a
influencer or on a model mannequin, and you buy it.
It gets to your house, you try it on, and it just doesn't feel
right. And then what happens?
You return it. So decreasing returns is one of
the ways to be a little bit moresustainable.
(15:19):
But how do you decrease returns?You first you need to kind of
buy something that you need and you're going to use and you're
gonna like. So these are kind of the tools
that we provide. It's not necessarily education
per SE, is more kind of tools that kind of nudge you towards
the right path, so to speak. Now, I can tell you're trading
carefully around the word education because it's clear
(15:44):
that consumers don't want to be told, you know, what to do, for
example, being in their face, soto speak.
And so, yeah, I'm fully aware ofthat key challenge.
So I've heard of a number of styling apps out there, even
though I don't know much about the styling apps.
But tell us about Lola AI. How does it go beyond those
basic starting apps to drive meaningful or mindful
(16:07):
consumption? Yes, Open Open Wardrobe is the
name of the app. Lola AI is the AI style.
Style is that kind of lives inside the app.
OK, so we have, again, you can start with digitizing your
wardrobe or you can start by using our style blueprint tools
that kind of teaches you how to dress and shop more mindfully.
(16:32):
And there are a couple of main things.
So if you do choose to start with your wardrobe and it's
always not required, but it's very helpful to have your
wardrobe digitized for several reasons.
One is immediately you have everything you own at your
fingertips And when you go shopping, when you are trying to
figure out what to dress, you see everything in the app,
(16:54):
right? So a lot of times what happens,
and I'm guilty of that as well, is I know that I like, you know,
let's say blouses or sweaters ofcertain style, and I end up with
10 of a very similar ones because I kind of forget what I
already have. So that's that's kind of one,
one thing. And then lowly I how how it
helps is all you need to do is you upload a snap a picture and
(17:15):
then everything else is recognized for you.
It's kind of very simple way of,of doing that.
The second thing is outfit recommendation.
And I mentioned already that youcan use it in many different
ways. You can use it within the app
just to figure out how to put stuff together.
And one thing to remember is that lol AI is not designed to
(17:36):
give you a perfect outfit every time.
It's designed to spark your creativity.
And a lot of times what our users are saying is that, Oh my
God, I would have never thought of pairing that skirt with that
top. But then I got this
recommendation and I put it on and Oh my God, I'm getting so
many compliments. But I would have never thought
about it myself just because if you've never done it before,
(17:59):
it's just kind of not your whatever.
You don't think it's your style,right?
So, so that's, that's one. And then the second one is you
can access your wardrobe and lolAI through through our browser
extension on every website. And then what that does to you
is that we already talked about like before you buy and you're
saying, can you visualize it in 30 different ways?
(18:21):
We can do this for you in seconds.
And then you can just like yes, yes, yes, no, no, no.
Should I buy it? Should I not and, and do it that
way. So that's kind of the main ideas
then we have it's probably it's not applicable to customers in
the UK just yet, available only in the US.
But if you happen to have listeners in the US, they might
be interested in that. Also.
(18:42):
We have integrations with different services.
So for example, if you do have that pair of means that you love
but zipper broke, what do you dowith it?
We have alterations and repair service that you can very easily
order from the app. If you are done with that
sweater and you don't want to wear this anymore, we have
integrations with the marketplaces that help you
resell. So again, low AI generates a
(19:04):
listing for you, one button click and it kind of goes.
So we're trying to create this whole ecosystem of services that
has to do with your clothing, that you can easily manage your
wardrobe. Good.
So how does does that disrupt the traditional stylist now
would you say? It doesn't disrupt traditional
stylist. So the human stylist is still
(19:26):
there and it has that human touch, right, Right.
What it does, it kind of democratizes the styling for
people who either are intimidated by human stylists.
Like not everybody wants to go and spend half a day in
somebody's studio being potentially like dressing,
undressing and like, right. Some people still have this idea
(19:49):
of, oh, you know, personal stylists are just for
celebrities. They're not.
But some people have that idea and that human touch is still
there. I mean, it's still, it's still
needed. Great to have for, especially
when you do, you know. Have special occasions and
you're selecting your wedding dress, for example, or write
something, something big coming up.
(20:11):
But what this does, it democratizes this kind of a
creativity aspect of personal styling.
And it really just helps you to be a little bit creative and a
little bit more mindful around you.
And it educates you. OK, I'm using that word
education, but it teaches you how to dress yourself without
having to spend, you know, a dayor half a day at someone's
(20:36):
studio if you don't have that time.
If I go to the shop and I'm buying a product and it's 3
different style or three different prices and you know 1
is a dollar, one is $3 and another is $10, or you know,
whichever the currency is, I've got 3 choices to choose one
(20:56):
from. But if I go to the shop in the
same product, it's 10 of them. You know, now I'm starting to
get confused which one to choose.
So using that context with the AI given personalization
options, are there any potentialchallenges which users now
support for choice so much that they can't even choose?
I mean that that exists with or without AI.
(21:18):
We have so many choices these days and I don't, I don't think
that AI is, is really making anydifference there.
If you are in the shop physically and you can try stuff
on I whatever feels more like you and if you wear it a lot.
So you, you mentioned like 3 different price points.
One is $1.00, another one is $5,another one is $10.
(21:41):
If you buy the product for $1.00but never wear it, it's not as
good as the one that you buy for$10 and we're 100 times, right.
So going back to cost for work. So it's, it's, it shouldn't be
about cost necessarily. It should be about how it makes
you feel and how much are you going to wear it Because we all
(22:03):
have things in our closets. I'm sure you do too, that you
wear a lot and you wear almost never, right?
So just think, think back to those garments and like, why do
you wear this a lot? And why do you wear something
very occasionally? So that should kind of give you
an idea, but AI, no AI I really.Choices are choices.
(22:24):
How are today's shoppers different?
I know I mentioned about the Millennials and the Gen.
Z, but with these different types of shoppers we'll have
different values and behaviours.So how does the Open wardrobe
adapt to these values and behaviours?
I don't know if we we try to adapt to different values and
behaviours. We know very well what we stand
(22:44):
for and the customers who come to us, they, they have similar
values to us. And those are either people who
who really just control freaks and love analytics and love
charts and just want to track every single metric about their
wardrobes. And they're super organized.
So that's one kind of segment ofusers.
And another one is people who just need help.
(23:08):
I need help to shop more mindfully, organize their
wardrobes more mindfully. So it's, it's typically kind of
those two types of people, but what's common is they all want
to have better wardrobes, betterclosets.
And it's really about not not having the stress every morning
or what am I going to wear? I have nothing to wear.
(23:29):
So that's what we're about. And we're not really, although
we assist with shopping, we're not trying to sell people new
clothes, right? Everybody that needs to buy new
clothes, right? But what we're we're doing is
we're giving you tools, if you choose to use them, that will
help you buy a little bit more mindfully.
Where does the fashion industry need to innovate most urgently
(23:51):
in the next 5 years, whether with AI or without?
Yeah. I think what's happening right
now, we're seeing in the shift kind of and, and, and I know
that we've we've been talking about personalization and retail
for a very long time and how to put the right product in front
of the right customer at the right time.
But what I'm really believing isthat we're kind of going back
(24:14):
towards more hyper personalized experiences.
And I'm talking about e-commerceretail, right, because in stores
it's kind of by default personalized and you can talk to
assistant shopper assistant, shopping assistant and they can
help you. But if you think about how
apparel dressing was even, let'ssay hundred, 150 years ago, you
(24:35):
would go to your dressmaker and they would know everything about
you. And whatever was made was made
specifically for you. And it would would be of good
quality. And you would wear it for many
years. And if you were tired of it, you
would take this dress back and they would readjust it.
Or if your body changed and it would still kind of serve you.
So with, with ready to wear and with kind of fast fashion, we're
(24:59):
moved away from that, but I believe we're kind of going back
to buying more quality outfits or garments and, and less so
we're retailers and brands need to figure out how do they
produce. And it's very, very difficult
problem how to produce what people buy or what people want,
what people need, right, Becauseoverproduction is a as an issue
(25:20):
and forecasting is very difficult and trend analysis is
very difficult. So how do we maybe change our
practices to less immediate certification and more more of
this is made for you specifically the quality that
and and in the way that you can wear it and love it for many
years. So you we've talked about the
(25:42):
repairs and the resale and the wardrobe analytics.
How do these features contributeto a circular economy model?
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you're extending the
life of your clothing, right? So by extending the life of your
clothing, just think about it this way.
So if you repair something, you extend the life of a garment or
you alter something that fits you, so you will wear it more.
(26:04):
If you extend the life of the garment by just nine months, you
are reducing the CO2 impact of the garment by like something
like 30%. It's almost like equivalent to
you charging your phone every night for three years.
So that's what what it equates to with resale.
You're also extending the life of the government.
It's just not you going to be wearing it, somebody else is
(26:25):
going to wear it and love it. So that's, that's the impact.
There are many, many resources out there that can tell people
exactly what it means to extend the I'm not going to go into
that those numbers, but there are lots of statistics that for
those who are interested that can research this and understand
why it's actually important. That's good.
So some key final thoughts. What advice would you give for
(26:49):
entrepreneurs who are building solutions which are at the
intersection of sustainability and AI?
There are so many different needs for where sustainability
and AI come together like many different use cases.
Find the niche, test it out and iterate.
And it doesn't have to be. You don't have to solve the
world problems. All of the world problems.
(27:10):
You need to solve one problem. And if you solve one problem
well enough, it will contribute to changing many people's lives.
I'm certain of it. What is your final thought for
listeners who are exploring these AI embedded styles or
opportunities to have more personalization?
(27:30):
What is your final thought for the listeners and those who are
watching? Oh, there are so many tools
popping up. Like almost every day I'm seeing
something new in the market. Try them, Play them, play with
them, have fun with them. It doesn't mean that they will.
Any single tool is gonna solve everything that you need and
explore. There are tools that I'm seeing
(27:55):
services popping up that help you a shop by basically talking
to AIAI being your shopping assistant, you're saying I am
going on vacation to Scotland inthe month of August and I need a
dress or I need an outfit or I need something and it goes and
finds you, you know, whether appropriate occasion,
(28:17):
appropriate stuff. Very fascinating.
Some of them we're still in the early stages.
So but but they're they're really interesting services
around that. There's services that are
helping you find and things thatare more suited to your body
shapes, for example, lots of so So what I'm what I'm trying to
say is that because there is just such a huge perfilation of
(28:39):
tools, just go have fun with it and see what works for you.
That's great huge thank you to Julia for your time and these
incredible insights on these reusing the wardrobe, the open
wardrobe. If listeners like your work and
want to find more about you, butalso where they can, discover
the Open Wardrobe and Ella AI aswell.
(29:01):
Yeah, just go to our website, it's open wardrobe.co,
itsnot.com, its.co and you'll see buttons to sign up,
download, You can read about it,you can read our blog and yeah,
drop us a note if you have any feedback.
We always love to hear from people.
If you have any ideas or suggestions on what we should be
doing next, let us know. That's great.
(29:22):
Thank you once again, Julia. Thank you.
Very nice talking to you. Yeah.
And what we do know is if you, from the sustainability point of
view, if you're buying a garmentand you wear it, you need to
wear it at least 30 times for this garment to be sustainable.
A lot. But if you compare it to
averages, especially Gen. Z's, they wear garments maybe
five to seven times on the average before discarding it,
right? So 30 times.
(00:20):
How do you do it? You need to be able to make it a
little bit more versatile. So how do you make it a little
bit versatile is you just envision it in many different
outfits with different accessories for different
occasions. And that is something that we're
helping consumers do. So if you can visualize it 30
times, you'll probably wear it 30 times.
(00:47):
Welcome to Sustainability Transformations podcast where we
explore bold ideas to drive positive change for people, the
community and business. And today's guest is visionary
product strategist, AI innovatoras sustainability advocates and
a fashion tech pioneer. Julia Ditma is the CEO of Open
Wardrobe and former chief product officer at Free AI.
(01:08):
She's redefining how we engage with cloves through AI powered
wardrobe to start promote personalization, reuse, smart of
fashion choices. And the key goal of our
discussion is exploring how to reimagine fashion with AI from
and retail waste, wardrobe intelligence, and how those
building conscious closets to fashion tech.
(01:30):
Welcome Julia. You've built an AI platform that
changed how retailers operate. What personally drew you into
tackling wardrobe sustainability?
Hi, Inoke, Thanks for having me on your podcast.
Yeah. So what what drew me to
sustainability, this is my previous work at View dot AI and
(01:51):
even before that at Thread Up, which is a second hand clothing
platform mainly in the US and for women's and children's
clothing. While I was in my previous job
at U dot AI, I worked with many apparel brands around the world.
We always talked about how to better provide these brands with
(02:11):
insights on consumers preferences and trends so that
brands can better plan and better forecasts what's going to
be popular with their customers in the following seasons and
have a much better way to land production of an assortment and
production of their lines. As we all know, apparel industry
(02:33):
is overproducing, right? And a lot of times we have many
clothing items that are not soldand they're being destroyed.
In the worst case scenario, they're just being burned or
adopted landfills. And best case scenarios, they go
to heavy discounts, which kind of promotes impulsive buying
from consumers. And that leads to closets that
(02:57):
are full of stuff that is not worn.
And that in turn kind of createssignals to retailers to produce
things that people don't necessarily want.
So it's kind of a vicious cycle.So what we're trying to solve is
really empowering consumers to buy some smarter and dress more
mindfully. And this is where our tools are
(03:17):
coming into play. Can you walk us through your
journey from leading View AI to founding the Open Wardrobe?
Yeah. So it's as I said, I worked with
many retailers and brands aroundthe world and they kept coming
back with same questions. And the questions were how do I
know more about my customer? How do I know more about
(03:41):
preferences? Because in many cases,
especially brands that don't have huge assortments, people
come to them maybe once a season, right?
And even with all this smart personalization tools and AI
that's power and personalizationand build this rich profiles, we
can only kind of figure out whatpeople like in that particular
season, for example, in that particular collection, but it's
(04:03):
not necessarily translatable or transferable to the subsequent
ones. And with sparse data like this
is very, very difficult to really predict what's going to
be popular in the next season. So there are all kinds of tools
around that with social listening and looking at
Instagrams, but it's almost likelooking at Instagram.
Is it is it really a trend or isit like something that already
(04:26):
happened and people are trying to just kind of sell that stuff.
So that's why we decided, OK, Sowhat if we created a way for
users to easily digitize what they already have and then we
create kind of profiles based based on that and turn that into
insights for for retailers completely anonymously, right?
(04:47):
Like not none of the data is shared.
So that's how the idea started. So from my work in AI and
personalization, we kind of got into more of the consumer facing
application with empowering users to more mindful address.
OK, that's good. So what was the aha moment that
made you shift from that retail AI to the wardrobe?
(05:10):
Yeah, I don't know if there was a really.
Aha moment. But what really kind of keeps me
going is our users are very passionate and very passionate
about being able to be smarter about how their wardrobes are
structured. Because you know, it's a very
common problem that especially women have Like you stare at
(05:33):
your closet, which is completelyfull and you think I have
nothing to wear, right? So it's very, very common
problem. So how do we teach people to
smaller wardrobes, but smarter in a way?
So what we do besides AI is justone component of what we do, but
what we also do is we teach you how to select clothing for
(05:55):
yourself. And it's not hard rules, right?
It's just guidelines. So for people who know how to
dress themselves and how to whatthey like and what they don't
like, it's probably not that bigof an issue.
But for most of us, buy an impulse because it's on sale or
sometimes we buy multiple of thesame thing because we like it
and then we end up not wearing it.
(06:16):
So we're teaching you how to select clothes more properly,
how to visualize how it fits into your current wardrobe.
So for example, with our Lola AIassistant, it's a styling
assistant really. You can access your wardrobe and
Lola AI through our browser extension from any e-commerce
(06:37):
site. So if you are let's say on Marks
and Spencer, for example, which is I know is popular in the UK,
you look at a pair of trousers or you're looking at the new
shirt or you're looking at the new sweater.
You can immediately say, show mehow it would look and work with
what I already right. And then we're helping you just
visualize how you could possiblywear it in many different ways
(07:00):
and for different occasions. A lot of us when we buy an
outfit, especially men, I know men do it a lot.
You buy an outfit, you look at the mannequin, it's wearing an
outfit, you look OK. I like it, I buy everything,
right? And that's how you wear it most
of the time. So there's not a lot of
creativity around how to pair this with anything else in your
closet. And what we do know is if you,
(07:23):
from the sustainability point ofview, if you're buying a garment
and you wear it, you need to wear it at least 30 times for
this garment to be sustainable, right?
30 times. 30 * 30 times at leastit doesn't sound like a lot, but
if you compare it to averages, especially Gen.
Z's, they wear garments maybe five to seven times on the
(07:43):
average before discarding it, right?
So 30 times. How do you do it?
You need to be able to make it alittle bit more versatile.
So how do you make it a little bit versatile is you just
envision it, envision it in manydifferent outfits with different
accessories for different occasions.
And that is something that we'rehelping consumers do.
(08:03):
So if you can visualize it 30 times, you'll probably wear it
30 times. And then for people who are
really into tracking what they wear, how often they wear it, we
have all kinds of statistics that they can track.
You don't have to, but people find it useful.
There is a very popular number that people are tracking is cost
per wear. So if you buy something for £100
(08:26):
and then you wear it 10 times, it costs you £10 per wear.
So the lower your cost per wear,the more kind of sustainable it
is, right. So, so those are kind of the the
tools that we're providing. Yeah.
So I'm curious to know what are the key factors that causes
people to dispose and not wear it 30 times or five times.
(08:48):
The obvious ones are wear and tear and the obvious ones are
I've wanted enough and the people who know me have seen
wear it. And it's an outfit which I take
to occasions, for example. But I'm curious to know what are
some surprises on that list. Yeah, So lifestyle changes, for
example, so we've, we, we saw a very big shift with after COVID,
(09:10):
right? People had a wardrobe that was
more geared for going out or going to the office.
And then all of a sudden we're all staying home, right?
So that's not getting born. So we, we saw shifts with COVID,
we see shifts with lifestyle changes like you are a new mom
going to work or you are gettingready to retire and then you're
(09:32):
reducing your in office hours, for example.
So things like that. We also see people in urban
areas that have more of their wardrobe for special occasion or
kind of date nights going out. And those are not something that
you wear on a regular basis. You, you wear it when you have
those occasions. So this occasion wear tends to
(09:55):
be one of the garments that people wear less typically.
And those are also the ones thatare more costly.
So they're in the costly for where if you're tracking that
metric is typically high for those garments.
So again, there are ways of how you can help yourself and how
you can reduce all of that underutilization.
That's good. I'm always intrigued with
(10:16):
there's a lot of young people, millennials and agencies, for
example, who care a lot about the environment or climate
change, but are also equally guilty with the less utilization
of clothing. I'm curious to know what the
causes of on one side they are very keen about the environment
(10:38):
and climate change, but on the other side that perhaps for a
lack of a better word or tap in this overconsumption.
What do you think is causing that challenge?
A lot of that is just a social media and following influencers
that kind of influencing you into believing that you always
need to have something new. And what we're trying to teach
(11:00):
our users is instead of following trends, figure out how
you want to show up and what story you want to tell with your
clothing. Because through clothing with we
tell stories, we really present ourselves through our facades
first, right before people know as they see this book cover, so
to speak. It's I, I know it's difficult
(11:20):
when you are really kind of in that environment where you're
being constantly bombarded and influenced, but this is probably
one of the biggest culprits. So if you, if you look on
YouTube, if you look on Instagram, there are lots of
whole videos like, oh, I just bought this.
I received this box from brand XYZ and let's unbox it and see
(11:41):
what I bought. What people don't realize a lot
of times that those boxes that arrive, they're they're not
gonna get worn. They're just people.
People have them just for the purpose of creating those that
content, right? And either it gets returned or
it just gets discarded or whatever that is.
And another, another thing that people don't realize a lot of
(12:02):
times that garments that get returned very often they do not
get restocked and resolved. It's getting better, but with
many e-commerce especially, it's, it's much cheaper for the
retailer to throw it away or discard it, then restock it.
It's kind of another thing that people need to realize.
And then maybe then they'll, they'll be, oh, maybe that's not
(12:25):
such a great idea for me to follow people who are doing this
whole. So that's one.
And then another one is the proliferation of retailers like
Sheen, for example, that sell you everything so cheaply.
It's even with people with best intentions who say that they
want to live sustainably and they want to buy from
(12:46):
sustainable brands. When it comes to it, cheap and
cute wins a lot at times, right?So if it's something that I like
and it only costs me 5 lbs or 10lbs, like, why wouldn't I buy it
even if it falls apart after thefirst two washes, right?
At the end of the day, that's kind of how consumers behave.
(13:06):
Economics is such a powerful thing.
It's such an important part of key decision making.
On the first part, the success of the industry that is Open
Wardrobe or the Lola AI depends on educating the customer.
Because when we hear about education, we tend to hear about
educating employees. But how do you think it is so
(13:27):
critical to educate the customerfor the success or the
implementation of these ideas which were discussed?
Yeah, when I say that we're educating, I don't mean we're
lecturing. Yeah, right.
We're providing tools that are fun, hopefully and are useful
and kind of nudge people towardssustainable practices.
(13:49):
So with Lol AI, we have, you know, the same main, the main
function of Lol AI is outfits recommendation.
And it starts with recommending outfits based on the knowledge
of our whole universe of of our users.
And then as you interact with it, it starts adapting to your
specific tastes. So it's kind of starting to give
you your specific outfits in more of the style that you
(14:12):
prefer. We also have kind of it's kind
of educational tool, but it's, it's not really because if you
go through, for example, our style blueprint analysis and we
determine your style personalityand your body shape and your
dominant coloring, we're kind ofguiding you through saying,
Enoch, you look really good and darker, kind of a deeper colors.
(14:37):
And for your body shape, these are kind of the silhouettes that
will work for you. So it does two things.
First of all, it kind of teachesyou what works for your
particular silhouette. And the second thing is it helps
you shop smarter so that whatever you buy is most more
likely to fit you and look good on you and you like it.
(14:58):
Then you buy it because you saw it on a friend or on a
influencer or on a model mannequin, and you buy it.
It gets to your house, you try it on, and it just doesn't feel
right. And then what happens?
You return it. So decreasing returns is one of
the ways to be a little bit moresustainable.
(15:19):
But how do you decrease returns?You first you need to kind of
buy something that you need and you're going to use and you're
gonna like. So these are kind of the tools
that we provide. It's not necessarily education
per SE, is more kind of tools that kind of nudge you towards
the right path, so to speak. Now, I can tell you're trading
carefully around the word education because it's clear
(15:44):
that consumers don't want to be told, you know, what to do, for
example, being in their face, soto speak.
And so, yeah, I'm fully aware ofthat key challenge.
So I've heard of a number of styling apps out there, even
though I don't know much about the styling apps.
But tell us about Lola AI. How does it go beyond those
basic starting apps to drive meaningful or mindful
(16:07):
consumption? Yes, Open Open Wardrobe is the
name of the app. Lola AI is the AI style.
Style is that kind of lives inside the app.
OK, so we have, again, you can start with digitizing your
wardrobe or you can start by using our style blueprint tools
that kind of teaches you how to dress and shop more mindfully.
(16:32):
And there are a couple of main things.
So if you do choose to start with your wardrobe and it's
always not required, but it's very helpful to have your
wardrobe digitized for several reasons.
One is immediately you have everything you own at your
fingertips And when you go shopping, when you are trying to
figure out what to dress, you see everything in the app,
(16:54):
right? So a lot of times what happens,
and I'm guilty of that as well, is I know that I like, you know,
let's say blouses or sweaters ofcertain style, and I end up with
10 of a very similar ones because I kind of forget what I
already have. So that's that's kind of one,
one thing. And then lowly I how how it
helps is all you need to do is you upload a snap a picture and
(17:15):
then everything else is recognized for you.
It's kind of very simple way of,of doing that.
The second thing is outfit recommendation.
And I mentioned already that youcan use it in many different
ways. You can use it within the app
just to figure out how to put stuff together.
And one thing to remember is that lol AI is not designed to
(17:36):
give you a perfect outfit every time.
It's designed to spark your creativity.
And a lot of times what our users are saying is that, Oh my
God, I would have never thought of pairing that skirt with that
top. But then I got this
recommendation and I put it on and Oh my God, I'm getting so
many compliments. But I would have never thought
about it myself just because if you've never done it before,
(17:59):
it's just kind of not your whatever.
You don't think it's your style,right?
So, so that's, that's one. And then the second one is you
can access your wardrobe and lolAI through through our browser
extension on every website. And then what that does to you
is that we already talked about like before you buy and you're
saying, can you visualize it in 30 different ways?
(18:21):
We can do this for you in seconds.
And then you can just like yes, yes, yes, no, no, no.
Should I buy it? Should I not and, and do it that
way. So that's kind of the main ideas
then we have it's probably it's not applicable to customers in
the UK just yet, available only in the US.
But if you happen to have listeners in the US, they might
be interested in that. Also.
(18:42):
We have integrations with different services.
So for example, if you do have that pair of means that you love
but zipper broke, what do you dowith it?
We have alterations and repair service that you can very easily
order from the app. If you are done with that
sweater and you don't want to wear this anymore, we have
integrations with the marketplaces that help you
resell. So again, low AI generates a
(19:04):
listing for you, one button click and it kind of goes.
So we're trying to create this whole ecosystem of services that
has to do with your clothing, that you can easily manage your
wardrobe. Good.
So how does does that disrupt the traditional stylist now
would you say? It doesn't disrupt traditional
stylist. So the human stylist is still
(19:26):
there and it has that human touch, right, Right.
What it does, it kind of democratizes the styling for
people who either are intimidated by human stylists.
Like not everybody wants to go and spend half a day in
somebody's studio being potentially like dressing,
undressing and like, right. Some people still have this idea
(19:49):
of, oh, you know, personal stylists are just for
celebrities. They're not.
But some people have that idea and that human touch is still
there. I mean, it's still, it's still
needed. Great to have for, especially
when you do, you know. Have special occasions and
you're selecting your wedding dress, for example, or write
something, something big coming up.
(20:11):
But what this does, it democratizes this kind of a
creativity aspect of personal styling.
And it really just helps you to be a little bit creative and a
little bit more mindful around you.
And it educates you. OK, I'm using that word
education, but it teaches you how to dress yourself without
having to spend, you know, a dayor half a day at someone's
(20:36):
studio if you don't have that time.
If I go to the shop and I'm buying a product and it's 3
different style or three different prices and you know 1
is a dollar, one is $3 and another is $10, or you know,
whichever the currency is, I've got 3 choices to choose one
(20:56):
from. But if I go to the shop in the
same product, it's 10 of them. You know, now I'm starting to
get confused which one to choose.
So using that context with the AI given personalization
options, are there any potentialchallenges which users now
support for choice so much that they can't even choose?
I mean that that exists with or without AI.
(21:18):
We have so many choices these days and I don't, I don't think
that AI is, is really making anydifference there.
If you are in the shop physically and you can try stuff
on I whatever feels more like you and if you wear it a lot.
So you, you mentioned like 3 different price points.
One is $1.00, another one is $5,another one is $10.
(21:41):
If you buy the product for $1.00but never wear it, it's not as
good as the one that you buy for$10 and we're 100 times, right.
So going back to cost for work. So it's, it's, it shouldn't be
about cost necessarily. It should be about how it makes
you feel and how much are you going to wear it Because we all
(22:03):
have things in our closets. I'm sure you do too, that you
wear a lot and you wear almost never, right?
So just think, think back to those garments and like, why do
you wear this a lot? And why do you wear something
very occasionally? So that should kind of give you
an idea, but AI, no AI I really.Choices are choices.
(22:24):
How are today's shoppers different?
I know I mentioned about the Millennials and the Gen.
Z, but with these different types of shoppers we'll have
different values and behaviours.So how does the Open wardrobe
adapt to these values and behaviours?
I don't know if we we try to adapt to different values and
behaviours. We know very well what we stand
(22:44):
for and the customers who come to us, they, they have similar
values to us. And those are either people who
who really just control freaks and love analytics and love
charts and just want to track every single metric about their
wardrobes. And they're super organized.
So that's one kind of segment ofusers.
And another one is people who just need help.
(23:08):
I need help to shop more mindfully, organize their
wardrobes more mindfully. So it's, it's typically kind of
those two types of people, but what's common is they all want
to have better wardrobes, betterclosets.
And it's really about not not having the stress every morning
or what am I going to wear? I have nothing to wear.
(23:29):
So that's what we're about. And we're not really, although
we assist with shopping, we're not trying to sell people new
clothes, right? Everybody that needs to buy new
clothes, right? But what we're we're doing is
we're giving you tools, if you choose to use them, that will
help you buy a little bit more mindfully.
Where does the fashion industry need to innovate most urgently
(23:51):
in the next 5 years, whether with AI or without?
Yeah. I think what's happening right
now, we're seeing in the shift kind of and, and, and I know
that we've we've been talking about personalization and retail
for a very long time and how to put the right product in front
of the right customer at the right time.
But what I'm really believing isthat we're kind of going back
(24:14):
towards more hyper personalized experiences.
And I'm talking about e-commerceretail, right, because in stores
it's kind of by default personalized and you can talk to
assistant shopper assistant, shopping assistant and they can
help you. But if you think about how
apparel dressing was even, let'ssay hundred, 150 years ago, you
(24:35):
would go to your dressmaker and they would know everything about
you. And whatever was made was made
specifically for you. And it would would be of good
quality. And you would wear it for many
years. And if you were tired of it, you
would take this dress back and they would readjust it.
Or if your body changed and it would still kind of serve you.
So with, with ready to wear and with kind of fast fashion, we're
(24:59):
moved away from that, but I believe we're kind of going back
to buying more quality outfits or garments and, and less so
we're retailers and brands need to figure out how do they
produce. And it's very, very difficult
problem how to produce what people buy or what people want,
what people need, right, Becauseoverproduction is a as an issue
(25:20):
and forecasting is very difficult and trend analysis is
very difficult. So how do we maybe change our
practices to less immediate certification and more more of
this is made for you specifically the quality that
and and in the way that you can wear it and love it for many
years. So you we've talked about the
(25:42):
repairs and the resale and the wardrobe analytics.
How do these features contributeto a circular economy model?
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you're extending the
life of your clothing, right? So by extending the life of your
clothing, just think about it this way.
So if you repair something, you extend the life of a garment or
you alter something that fits you, so you will wear it more.
(26:04):
If you extend the life of the garment by just nine months, you
are reducing the CO2 impact of the garment by like something
like 30%. It's almost like equivalent to
you charging your phone every night for three years.
So that's what what it equates to with resale.
You're also extending the life of the government.
It's just not you going to be wearing it, somebody else is
(26:25):
going to wear it and love it. So that's, that's the impact.
There are many, many resources out there that can tell people
exactly what it means to extend the I'm not going to go into
that those numbers, but there are lots of statistics that for
those who are interested that can research this and understand
why it's actually important. That's good.
So some key final thoughts. What advice would you give for
(26:49):
entrepreneurs who are building solutions which are at the
intersection of sustainability and AI?
There are so many different needs for where sustainability
and AI come together like many different use cases.
Find the niche, test it out and iterate.
And it doesn't have to be. You don't have to solve the
world problems. All of the world problems.
(27:10):
You need to solve one problem. And if you solve one problem
well enough, it will contribute to changing many people's lives.
I'm certain of it. What is your final thought for
listeners who are exploring these AI embedded styles or
opportunities to have more personalization?
(27:30):
What is your final thought for the listeners and those who are
watching? Oh, there are so many tools
popping up. Like almost every day I'm seeing
something new in the market. Try them, Play them, play with
them, have fun with them. It doesn't mean that they will.
Any single tool is gonna solve everything that you need and
explore. There are tools that I'm seeing
(27:55):
services popping up that help you a shop by basically talking
to AIAI being your shopping assistant, you're saying I am
going on vacation to Scotland inthe month of August and I need a
dress or I need an outfit or I need something and it goes and
finds you, you know, whether appropriate occasion,
(28:17):
appropriate stuff. Very fascinating.
Some of them we're still in the early stages.
So but but they're they're really interesting services
around that. There's services that are
helping you find and things thatare more suited to your body
shapes, for example, lots of so So what I'm what I'm trying to
say is that because there is just such a huge perfilation of
(28:39):
tools, just go have fun with it and see what works for you.
That's great huge thank you to Julia for your time and these
incredible insights on these reusing the wardrobe, the open
wardrobe. If listeners like your work and
want to find more about you, butalso where they can, discover
the Open Wardrobe and Ella AI aswell.
(29:01):
Yeah, just go to our website, it's open wardrobe.co,
itsnot.com, its.co and you'll see buttons to sign up,
download, You can read about it,you can read our blog and yeah,
drop us a note if you have any feedback.
We always love to hear from people.
If you have any ideas or suggestions on what we should be
doing next, let us know. That's great.
(29:22):
Thank you once again, Julia. Thank you.
Very nice talking to you. Yeah.
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