July 3, 2025 • 42 mins
Summary
In this episode of the Sustainability Transformations podcast, host Enock engages with Charlie Szoradi, a sustainability entrepreneur and founder of OnlyKale, to discuss the intersection of food innovation, wellness, and sustainability. Charlie shares his journey through various sectors, emphasizing the importance of making superfoods accessible and affordable while addressing the environmental impact of food production and transportation. The conversation explores the challenges of greenwashing in corporate sustainability efforts, the need for a shift in mindset towards purpose-driven innovation, and the future trends in sustainability, particularly in relation to technology and renewable energy.
Guest Bio:
Charlie Szoradi is an entrepreneur, author, and sustainability expert with over 30 years of experience in high-performance design, clean energy, and innovative real estate solutions. He has founded multiple companies and his pioneering work has led to groundbreaking patents, major industry awards, and partnerships with Fortune 100 companies and the U.S. military. Charlie’s most recent innovation is OnlyKale, a brand whose mission is to make healthy eating more affordable and accessible by offering convenient, single-serving packets of powdered kale.Contact:
www.onlykale.com
www.linkedin.com/in/charlie-szoradi
Takeaways
Sustainability is about thinking seven generations ahead.
The environmental impact of food transportation is significant, accounting for 23-24% of greenhouse gas emissions.
Making superfoods affordable and accessible is crucial for health equity.
Greenwashing is a challenge for many companies claiming sustainability without action.
Purpose-driven innovation can lead to long-term positive impacts on communities and the environment.
We need to be smarter with how we use energy rather than just seeking to produce more.
Active living and participation in sustainability efforts are essential for community engagement.
Corporate responsibility should include transparency and genuine efforts towards sustainability.
The future of sustainability may lie in renewable energy sources like tidal power.
Education and awareness are key to driving sustainable practices in everyday life.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Sustainability and Superfoods
06:28 The Journey of Sustainability and Innovation
11:35 Defining Sustainability Across Generations
17:57 Personal Insights and Market Trends in Superfoods
21:40 OnlyKale: A Unique Approach to Superfoods
23:04 Nutrient-Dense Solutions for Families
24:20 Accessibility and Affordability in Health Foods
26:45 Addressing Food Deserts and Nutritional Gaps
27:34 The Challenge of Greenwashing
29:16 Active Living vs. Passive Living
30:24 Lessons from Fortune 100 Companies
33:26 Trends in Sustainability and Renewable Energy
36:56 The Importance of Nutrition and FDA Regulations
39:58 Purpose-Driven Innovation for Long-Term Impact
42:58 Final Thoughts on Healthy Living and Purpose
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
We might spend the extra dollar on $10.00 for recycled paper
because it's good for the planetand the people on the planet
that are our customers, right? It's not this selfish.
Look at just profit, profit, profit.
It's people, planet, and profit can all coexist.
(00:20):
That's the triple bottom line. And I think it's hard to embed
that in people's minds because although it's only a dollar for
the recycling, I mean that maybeit's the container systems, the
paper from the copier, maybe it's the water on the the roof
that is collected for the landscaping.
So as a quick example, it's crazy that we use this
(00:42):
incredible filtration and technology to have potable
drinking water all across the United States.
And every day we are just pumping hundreds of millions of
gallons into landscaping right there.
Welcome to Sustainability Transformations podcast where we
(01:03):
explore both ideas to drive positive change for people,
community and business. Today's guest is inventive,
mission driven ESG pioneer on this oriented and a triple
bottom line thinker. Charlie Saradi is a
sustainability entrepreneur and founder of Only Kel, a new
(01:25):
venture making super foods affordable, accessible and easy
to integrate into everyday life.And the key goal of our
discussion on the theme is bridging A sustainable food
innovation and Wellness. Charlie, thank you for joining
us. You've worked across energy,
real estate and now nutrition. What connects your 30 year
(01:45):
sustainability journey? Well, Enoch, thank you for
hosting and having me. I really applaud everything
you've done with with your career.
And I see a lot of alignment there because sustainability is
not just an electric car or a solar house.
It's the whole way we think about living and working on this
beautiful planet of ours in somecooperative way with the other
plants and animals. It's an unselfish way of
(02:07):
thinking about life. And it can also lead to
profitable businesses and happiness, not just protect the
planet. The planet, ironically, as you
may know, is going to be okay. It's actually save us, not save
the Earth. So I'll start by saying thank
you, but then just give you a quick little update.
You know, back in the, in the East late 80s, I was at the
(02:31):
University of Virginia studying architecture, worked for a
couple years in Washington, DC and was then inspired at the
University of Pennsylvania for my masters degree as an
architect by Kenya Mariama, who is a great Japanese thinker for
sustainability. This is early 90s and I had the
unbelievable good fortune to work with him in Tokyo.
(02:52):
And I started to see that sustainability was about living
well as opposed to a perception of it just being sort of a green
or liberal cause to save something.
It was about wealth, health, andall those good things that could
come from connecting, connectingand knowing the complexity of
the, the ecosystem. The pivot for me came when I
(03:12):
realized that architecture aloneand I have a solar house that I
built here in in Wayne, PA near Philadelphia, one at the beach
down at our Jersey Shore house in an electric car.
And I thought those are all great things and grow grew some
food at home. And I realized that the
buildings themselves are not going to solve the problem.
As an architect inside those buildings, there were the
(03:35):
lights. And I pivoted towards making LED
lights. And this was about 15 years ago,
before LED's were even popular at the big box stores.
There were no aisles that had LED lights.
Like maybe there would be a headlamp if you went biking at
night. You know, it was it was crazy.
So pioneering that with a patentand a production facility here
(03:55):
in the US was great. Navy ships, military bases,
Walter Reed hospital all under contract with are US made LED
lights that honestly save 90% ofthe energy.
They cost more but we could justify the math on how it was a
return on investment. It was very favorable pay back
within a few years. During that time, the foods
(04:16):
trigger started because some people were calling in from
California about using the lights to grow plants.
Controlled environment. Agriculture has a burden of
electrical bills, right? If you're not using the sun,
which is free, you got to pay the electric bill.
It was first, by the way, the cannabis guys that are on the
leading bleeding edge of technology for for California,
(04:38):
but also around the world. And I realized you could also
grow romaine lettuce. You grow the leafy greens like
the kale and the kale caught my eye.
The kale caught my eye because it is the most nutrient dense
superfood on earth. Good for bones, good for heart,
good for the immune system, skin, eyes, hair, detox.
It was like, wow, pharma with all their trillions of dollars
(04:59):
can't really do what Mother Nature can do in terms of
producing something so simple and and powerful for health.
OK, pivoted, started finding theways to move the kale and it
looked like refrigeration was one of the challenges.
So in transportation, if you have to keep something cold,
people forget that. And almost 90% of the veggies
(05:19):
are coming from California. And I'm all the way over here in
Philly. That's over 2000 miles.
The burden on the environment isso real for making and
transporting food that it's about a 23 to 24% impact on
greenhouse gas emissions. It's shocking number because
buildings might be 6% cars and transportation might be 12.
(05:42):
It's more of a burden on the planet to make and move food
than just about anything else. So growing locally was one
option, but not always easy. And I'm going to wrap this sort
of narrative in a second becauseit was as simple as looking at
how to powderize something so good as kale.
We looked at dehydrating. You lose 30 or 40% of the
nutrients. That's not dissimilar to the
(06:04):
nutrients that are lost when youmove leaf kale across the
country for multiple days. Freeze drying was the answer,
preserving 97% of the nutrients.We put the freeze drying on the
farms, we powderize it and we can ship it at 110th of the
weight and shelf stable, no refrigeration needs.
So this was the breakthrough moment in the last two years and
(06:24):
it was the the inspiration for only kale, which now it comes in
single serve stick packs, powderthat you can just mix into any
drink. And the idea it's really pretty
simple. If you make something fast and
easy and affordable for someone that's less than you know, $0.75
a day, all of a sudden you can adopt change, whether it's in
the underserved communities or whether it's for the the wealthy
(06:47):
suburban families that want to have a healthier lifestyle.
We don't care. We want to help everyone and we
tried to make it as affordable as possible and work also with
some nonprofits to try and make it, make it even more meaningful
for people in the, in the food deserts, in the underserved
communities. There's the quick Charlie story.
Took a little longer than I had planned, but I hope that helps
put in perspective the journey I've been on.
(07:09):
It's a fascinating journey and there are a number of areas we
can explore. What is that freeze drying again
that you finally discovered? If you can unpack what?
The freeze drying, it goes back to some of the NASA programs,
you know, way, way back into thein the 60s and even before.
But the idea is if in a vacuum, you can take out the the
(07:30):
moisture, the moisture is a significant portion of the
weight. And if you can do that under the
the vacuum pressure without removing the nutrients, all the
better. So dehydrating.
And I bought some initially for myself for testing dehydration
machines. That's taking out the moisture
as well, Enoch. But what it does is in that
process, it's losing some of those, those nutrients.
(07:53):
And that's where, you know, we're so proud of our nutrient
like fact sheet and being able to basically have the vitamins,
DAE, B6, the things that help and the antioxidants.
So it's not just about like lessweight.
You have to try and preserve thegood stuff.
Otherwise, you're just wasting your time.
That's impressive. So you were in ESG before it
(08:16):
became a buzzword. What was the earliest part for
sustainable business thinking, would you say?
So it's so interesting because Iwas, I think at the forefront in
some way because I was able to do some things that weren't just
like a solar house. Then this is way back, you know,
coming into, I think it was one of the first properties in
(08:37):
Pennsylvania that didn't look like a solar house.
So part of the challenge with technology is I'll just take the
example of the cyber truck that Tesla makes.
It clearly does not look like anything else.
That's fine and good, but I think they were relatively smart
with something like the ASS and the Model 3 to make them feel
kind of sporty and look like something you would be happy to
(08:59):
drive. Now, the the politics of what's
happening with Musk and Tesla isgoing to be a separate podcast.
We're not going to go there, go there today, but the idea is to
make something that is functional but also aesthetic
and then sustainable. So if it's something that's a
burden to use in terms of the function, maybe I don't care as
much that it's helping the the planet.
(09:20):
If it's not affordable, I don't know if I'm going to go that
deep. And then some of the things that
we love just don't help the planet at all, right?
The traditional like say combustion engines or the houses
that burn through so much fuel. So the way I did the
breakthrough was not only solar for making electricity on a
house that looked pretty traditional and was appealing to
a lot of people, but had hot water systems.
(09:42):
So I would not just make the electrons, say for the air
conditioning, but designed it with operable windows for cross
ventilation. So you would get some free
aspect of what Mother Earth provides, which is a breeze in
the evening and maybe the morning even on very hot days.
And then heated the water not just for the showers and the
laundry, but with separate panels all facing S, all at the
(10:04):
right angle. And they heat the floor through
a radiant floor heating system with coils under the tile at a
400 gallon tank, much bigger than a traditional tank that was
like a storage system with copper coils in it.
And so the combination of feeding the water system for the
floors, the domestic hot water, a trigger backup was an on
(10:27):
demand system. And this is again coming up on,
you know, like 20 years ago whenI got this house, the and and
renovated did all started all the work.
Those backups were as important as the primary meaning no one
wants the great sustainable house that in my case made the
with my wife then and kids the cover of Inventor's Digest
(10:49):
magazine, right? So it wasn't like Good
Housekeeping. This was like the inventor's
magazine. The backups were just as
important because if you don't have hot water in the shower or
if you had the wrong type of shower head that doesn't feel
like you have enough pressure, no one wants it.
So part of the challenge in the early ESG days were this
perception that it was going to be less quality, less of a
lifestyle benefit, less of a sort of a wealthy living, you
(11:12):
know, kind of play. And I found that balance for
what was at the time $125.00 square foot to build, which was
less than the average of the suburban builder houses.
So it was affordable, it was sustainable, it was functional,
and it was aesthetic. Check those boxes and off we we
went. That's impressive with all of
those initial. So the definition of
(11:34):
sustainability have recently sort of struggled with different
people seem to have different definition of what
sustainability is and perhaps there might be no sustainability
is not enough. We have to be regenerating, we
have to be cyclic economy or youknow the difference between
sustainability and ESG. Of course, you know how you
define sustainability across design, energy, and now health.
(11:58):
So I love the Native American story about 7 generations and
definition of sustainability wasto think of the actions we take
have an impact on those that follow us.
And if you can do something thatwill not adversely impact the
7th generation, now you have adopted A sustainability
mindset. So the small act I did of
(12:20):
becoming a personal trainer withthe National Academy of Sports
Medicine is a need that I have for myself to learn about health
and Wellness for physical fitness that will only have an
impact for 7 generations if I teach my children about
balancing their diet and exercise in those things and
they teach their children. But for sure that action that I
(12:43):
took will not have a negative impact.
It will have a positive impact. It's just a question of how much
designing the house and telling the kids all about the things so
that they can share those stories with their friends is an
act of sustainability. Because I would then invite Boy
Scout, Girl Scout troops in drive.
My wife then absolutely crazy because like, it was like a
(13:06):
Tuesday afternoon and I'm like giving tours and we had to like
clean up the, you know, the house.
And the point is, I was thinkingabout those 7th generations that
maybe they tell their children who tell their children.
And we start to think that when you buy a product, when you make
something even with the LED lights, that for literally a
decade we had the longest running warranty, 10 year
(13:29):
warranty, and everyone else was three or five years longest
running, most environmentally friendly lights in the history
of the world. And someone will continue to do
that because once you pay the lower bill, you're probably not
going to go back to a higher, you know, a cost operating a
light bulb. That idea of seven generations
is, I think important. What you do should not have a
negative negative impact on people or the planet, and if
(13:51):
anything it should create a lift.
Right. So that's fascinating with those
7 generations. So could it be that traditional
leadership thinking or leadership styles need a revamp
to the for example, the 7th generation in order for
sustainability to thrive from whether government leadership or
(14:13):
business leadership, the traditional ways of leadership
to change the mindset. Absolutely.
And I'll tell you that it's not a big paradigm shift, it's a
pivot. And so here's what's
interesting. With a for profit business,
you're supposed to as an executive and I'm the CEO of
only Cal, think of your shareholders first.
So if you were going to buy a ream of paper for the copy
(14:35):
machine, you should technically buy the least expensive stack of
500 sheets, whatever it is, as opposed to the recycled paper,
which might cost 10% more. So by mandate in some way, to
preserve shareholder value, we have set a pattern of rules that
is not beneficial to the collective, meaning other people
and often the planet, habitants,plants and animals.
(14:58):
The nonprofit company does not have those same rules and they
could support the purchase of a recycled set of copy paper.
What's interesting with B Corp and there's a bridge and this is
a Philadelphia based group that I was pleased to sign the
Declaration of Interdependence back in like 2007.
The middle ground, it's saying you can be a for profit
(15:21):
business, but you add a bylaw language strip in your
agreement, your operating agreement that says we are
sometimes going to take the HighRoad.
We might spend the extra dollar on $10 for recycled paper
because it's good for the planetand the people on the planet
(15:42):
that are our customers, right? It's not this selfish.
Look at just profit, profit, profit.
It's people, planet, and profit can all coexist.
That's the triple bottom line. And I think it's hard to embed
that in people's minds because although it's only a dollar for
the recycling, I mean that maybeit's the container systems, the
(16:03):
paper from the copier, maybe it's the water on the the roof
that is collected for the landscaping.
So as a quick example, it's crazy that we use this
incredible filtration and technology to have potable
drinking water all across the United States.
And every day we are just pumping hundreds of millions of
gallons into landscaping, right?That doesn't necessarily need
(16:26):
that level of cost to basically filter the water.
Rainwater collection tanks, and I have them at our residence,
are awesome for landscape water,right?
You've gotten in this cycle of earth.
So that's not a cost, that's actually saving money.
It seems like a green thing, butyou have to spend the money on
the barrel once, collect the water and run it into the
system. And the barrels could be massive
(16:48):
at a corporate office. So when I see roofs, I'm
imagining that like they could be growing vegetables locally to
feed their group for the lunch. They could be collecting
rainwater. They could be making electricity
with the solar. So it's like our mindset has
been status quo. Pay the electric bill, pay the
water bill. It's crazy.
It's like crazy When the asset exists and for free, it rains.
(17:10):
At some point it will rain even in the driest, you know, places.
So there's Charlie's approach. Tweak the rule.
Don't Don't always make the corporate required to just think
bottom, bottom, bottom line in the short term, but think about
investing in efficiency and the future.
That's so inspirational because when people think about
sustainability and they have to come up with a new initiative,
(17:33):
for some reason, the initial thought goes to the most
expensive, but not thinking about, as you mentioned,
rainwater harvesting, yes, you make some investment, but
compared to other initiatives which you can take up so
quickly. So that's great.
You've shared how you've moved from the LEDs and the HVAC
(17:54):
optimization to the holy cow, but was there personal or market
insight which really inspired you to pivot into the Super food
space? So it was interesting what my
father had come from Budapest, Hungary, in the 50s after the
war and escaped through the IronCurtain as an architect.
And I was at his feet at the drafting table in the 70s,
(18:16):
drawing in like the the trees onthe architectural presentations
for some of the solar projects that he was working on as an
architect. So I was inspired by someone who
had been there at the very earliest stages and then built
with two friends from from high school and 8th grade, a solar
boat that won the popular prize for the science fair.
(18:39):
So I'd read it was Jimmy Carter had put the solar panels on the
White House. Turns out later Reagan took them
off, But that's separate separate also podcast.
I thought this was cool. We could use them for
transportation. That solar was going to be the
future of everything. And this is now coming up on
like not quite, but almost 50 years ago.
And so I was inspired at a youngage to see the potential for
(19:02):
innovative architecture, innovative technologies and with
efficiencies. We were told to turn the lights
off when we left the room and the TV's off.
And with the thermostat, it was before they were really smart
thermostats. But I learned from my, my dad
then that you didn't need at night for the, the heating cost
(19:22):
as much demand because if you were under your blankets, you
could turn it down a little bit and that would save some energy.
And with the air conditioning, if we weren't going to be there,
because I was at school during the day, mom was a teacher and
dad went off to work as the architect, the air conditioning,
we would turn back up when we got back to the, the house.
(19:43):
Now today with the the various technologies, you can have it
automated and the timer could set it at, you know, whatever
5:30 PM it would pre cool from your house how to open the
windows and get the draft in theevening.
So these were the beginnings forHVAC for me, the heating,
ventilating and air conditioning.
And I would now work actually asa as an advisor consultant for a
(20:04):
company that uses very sophisticated algorithms to save
energy from major corporate buildings by doing those little
micro adjustments. So those small things were I was
learning about them at such an early age that it sort of became
obvious that other people shoulddo this.
And I was shocked, shocked at the lack of adoption because it
(20:25):
was perceived, I think, as a liberal cause.
And I hated that it was like Earth Day and everything became
sort of a green hippie thing, that it was branded and pushed
to be polar to like this sort ofconservative mindset.
I'm like, it's the most conservative thing ever to save
energy, right? Like I'm shocked to this day
that the message hasn't been adopted to be smart, clean
(20:49):
technology for America that's efficient that we could all get
behind instead of making it somehow a political debate
shouldn't be a debate at all. We should save money and save
the planet and live better, period.
Absolutely. I mean, conserve is
conservative, so. Exactly.
So makes only kale different because we've got a few green
(21:11):
powders in the market. Can you help the listeners try
and pinpoint? Absolutely.
There are so many supplements now we have what is called a
crowded space. And if you look at the
packaging, there are lots of layers in terms of ingredients.
So let's let's take first the idea of total body solutions.
(21:32):
So there are lots of powders, whether they're green, yellow,
blue, pink, doesn't matter, thatclaim to do all kinds of things
for like anti aging and, you know, meal replacement.
And it's overwhelming to consumers.
And we thought about a spoke on the wheel that you need to eat
actual food, preferably whole food, you know, whether it's
(21:54):
grass fed beef, whether it's, you know, poultry that is free
range or vegetables that are grown locally.
You know, unfortunately I have to spend sometimes a little more
money to get the, the quality that's not overloaded with, you
know, pesticides and all kinds of high process stuff.
Simplicity of the word only. And kale was 100% organic kale
powder. And you choose how to mix it in.
(22:16):
In my case, I just have it everyday.
I'm drinking it right now with water in the morning.
Whey protein, perhaps you have an organic protein that's veggie
based. Mix it in and it's just a, you
know, it's just a tear the top right in the shaker, no blender
needed. I'll have collagen, you know,
for skin. I'll have creatine for working
out and it just shake it up and off we go.
(22:38):
And the families that have, let's just say kids that don't
love veggies, you can put it in lasagna, you can throw it in the
soup, you can throw it in the salad dressing.
And all of a sudden there's a way to get what is the
equivalent of fun serving of kale so fast and easy and
affordably. And now you don't have to have
the consternation and the stress.
Like my kids maybe didn't get their three servings of veggies
(23:00):
because there's sometimes just less time in the day.
So we decided to go narrow, narrow, narrow and have it be a
single serve and a single product that is the most
nutrient dense food and not jumble up the offering with all
kinds of like added flavors, added other nutrients.
People take their multivitamin pills.
There's plenty of ways to get other nutrients, but don't think
(23:23):
of it as a solution to solve allyour problems.
It's a spoke on the wheel and ifyou ride that bike and the wheel
goes nice and smoothly down the path, you will go further.
That's cute. So how are you solving the
accessibility and the affordability in the health food
market? Great question.
So. What happens in when we'll go by
(23:44):
50,000 units. The, the, the stick packs are
not individually made by hand, right.
We have automation and machines.We have our partner for Co
packing in San Diego with solar on the roof and a net zero
delivery on the impact for actually the production of our
product. Very, very unique in the space.
(24:04):
That had everything to do with my initial instinct with the
seven generations to make sure that we can stick with what we
believe and not greenwash. There are plenty of people that
talk about, you know, why they're doing green things and
it's kind of like if you pull the cover up, you're like,
that's not quite the same, the same deal.
So this is about human health and Wellness and planetary
(24:26):
health and Wellness coexisting right there at scale.
We can pass all that saving advantage on to the consumer.
We're not I'm making a big profit.
You know, it's a massive level. I have envy of the let's just
say the, the software Microsoft's of the world where
they make it once and then when it scales, they just make so
much money, right? The profit, this one we have to
(24:48):
make each time, but at least there's some machines that you
know, that put the powder in andwe we don't, we don't, we're not
hand crafting each little each little stick pack.
So that's how we can get to the affordability.
And with the Internet, there's less middle men.
So one of the challenges with retail is they buy it often for
50% of what they charge the retail buyer.
(25:09):
On the Internet, we can get it out the door typically for less.
And that way we're still making some money to pay for overhead.
And one of the things we need todo with some of those dollars is
also work with these underservedcommunities because it's not
just the North Philadelphia, theBaltimore, parts of Atlanta,
Detroit, Every city has some area where there's often a food
(25:30):
desert, meaning you're further than a mile to walk to a grocery
store that has some actual vegetables.
And that's a real problem because 90% of the United States
is not getting enough vegetableseach day.
The full 3 servings. And in the inner city and some
of these underserved rural communities as well, It's it's
much, much worse with obesity levels going up with diabetes.
(25:51):
I don't think I need to tell you, Enoch, it's good to eat
some vegetables each day. Yes.
And we're a crutch in that, in that wheel to get you there.
Yeah. Regarding the.
Greenwashing. I've looked into why some
companies fall into the trap andone of the areas is a lot of
companies come up with the idea of being sustainable.
There's no action. And once they come up with the
(26:11):
idea of sustainability, they mayget a few awards, they may get a
few buzz. And then when it comes to
actually delivering the idea, then a few companies start to
backtrack because they, you know, and some will start to
say, oh, we didn't realize it was going to cost us this much
or we needed to make some investments and so on.
So that's kind of interesting when you touched on something
(26:33):
that they have. A sustainability plan and it
looks all good on the Internet and you're like where where are
the actual action items that might include having at their
break room like the the filteredwater so they'll buy it drives
me nuts. The single serve plastic water
bottles as a courtesy for the staff, which is producing these
9 billion bottles, you know, a year of trash that end up in the
(26:55):
ocean and our food supply chain as opposed to a filtered water
system where they tell their staff, I'm going to buy you like
instead of just a glass maybe a canister like one of those
aluminum canisters that has the company logo on it just fill it
up with water for free from the water filter.
Yeah, it's like the number of plastic and that and the
self-serve stuff. I mean that the single serve is
is absolutely insane. We like having the idea of food
(27:18):
on demand, whether you can grow some on on the roof, whether you
can have the the kale powder there for your staff if they
need a little energy, some veggies in the afternoon.
But like I would enjoy consulting to some of those big
shot corporations as I did with the lighting and the air
conditioning efficiency to say, here are 10 things you can do
that might even include like blinds for the windows on the
(27:40):
southern exposure that just in the afternoon reduce some of the
heat gain. And little tiny things like
having a garden on the roof to grow some veggies for the
handful of the staff that might want to volunteer to participate
is a show of participation, right?
Is someone in charge of pushing one button or is it even
automated with a photocell to like close some blinds so you're
(28:02):
not overheating the building? Save a little energy harvest,
which is super fun for me, clipping some veggies and
bringing them down to throw in your salad at lunch.
That idea of being engaged with architecture is actually in my
book, the Learn From Looking book, which is active living
versus passive living in building things.
Opening the shutters in the old farmhouse to let the light in
(28:23):
right. The participation of how you
might imagine planting A deciduous tree that has shade in
the summer but loses its leaves in the winter on the the South
side of your house, which we did.
Knowing that you're just not in a box living, but you're
actively participating in life is different where, you know,
scoop out the rain water from the rain barrel or something.
(28:45):
You're watering one of the houseplants.
Like living in a way that is dynamic and not just hoping you
pull up your phone and click an app and food magically shows up
with Grubhub at your door, right?
Growing, cutting, cooking, participating with the kids and
that's that's a whole mindset ofactive living, not passive
living you worked with. Fortune one hundreds which are
(29:07):
some of the successful companiesaround the world and the US
military. What lessons from those work did
you bring into this consumer facing products?
The only care. So it was basically.
The mindset of make it accessible and fun and kind of
like even the the the logo lick is whimsical at the Fortune 500.
(29:28):
The leading companies 100 in thein the world have done things
that attract consumers as opposed to sometimes the
perception of like the nonprofitand the do gooders.
So we try to do something that felt super accessible in terms
of the branding, the social media, people having fun, people
showing off how they're living better doing things, not dislike
(29:49):
beat down of like we need to do this because it's an existential
threat to humans if we don't. I had the, the good fortune of,
of meeting Al Gore multiple, multiple times and as the author
of the Inconvenient truth, you know, had had discussions that
were simply like, we have to be careful not to put people on
their heels and get defensive about driving their SUV, which
(30:14):
they love with the kids in the suburbs.
So if you antagonize people, I think the answer to your
question about what we've learned is don't piss people
off, right? So if we can come in with a
positive message and on the box,like they come in and it's a box
of 15. But the the energy and the bones
in the skin and the heart and the recovery, if people are
(30:36):
working out, it's a way to get better.
It's immunity, eyes, hair detox and weight loss.
Well, all these things are great.
And you know, the disclaimer is the FDA has itself policed with
the, the, the way that we're notexpecting anyone believes FDA
makes all these claims, you know, and does the, the, the
cross checking. But it's, it's interesting if
you make claims, you know, with the disclaimer, we have to be
(30:59):
sensitive to all that stuff. It's the supplement disclaimer.
Follow the rules. We also learned from the, the
top corporations in the world play in the field that is fair
and be sensitive to those those rules.
But don't make people feel bad for not buying some product.
It's a it's a opposite optimistic message versus a
pessimistic message, so essential.
(31:22):
And it's been a common theme about storytelling.
And there is this accession. Again, I'm no biologist, no a
psychologist, but it turns out that when people are scared, the
brain function to think shuts off.
And so it goes back to the idea of if the messaging is all about
fear, then you prevent people from actually thinking about the
(31:46):
opportunities that it brings, which perhaps ties in with the
key aspect of no using alarmism,for example, by the
opportunities that when you're sustainable or you look for the
more sustainable option from thehealth as we've discussed.
So that's good. So what sustainability or ESG
trend are you watching most closely right now?
(32:09):
OK, I love. This this question because with
the trends, there is so much noise about AI and how AI can
like potentially learn ways to create efficiencies, learn ways
to create renewable energy. I'm watching the tidal studies.
So in the ocean and in the rivers.
(32:29):
So the power, power of our mother Earth and to reduce
ourselves down to this little speck in the universe, right?
We've got this beautiful planet where we are here on a beautiful
special place. The motion of the ocean, the
tides, the rhythm of the power that comes from this gigantic
untapped wealth is so interesting to me versus
(32:50):
drilling oil versus the the interruptive side of wind and
solar. So wind is great at sometimes at
night, solar during the day, obviously.
So those intermittent, you know,moments of joy for getting
electrons is great. But the title thing is set is
really sexy to me because it's just it's it's just perpetual,
right? There's always emotion.
And so I think that may be a place for AI to step up the
(33:12):
game. My biggest concern, though, is
this idea of waiting for the renewable power solution, the
cold fusion, the title that we are drug addicts and that we use
25% of the world's energy here in the US with only about four,
4 1/2% of the population. So we're not only overweight in
terms of fitness, we're overweight in terms of
(33:34):
consumption of energy. More power, I don't think is the
answer. And I've been on the efficiency,
you know, basically soapbox for decades saying we need to be
smarter with how we use power, not necessarily how we just make
power. And that's what concerns me a
little bit. Is there?
There's the trend of like more, more, more ways to create, you
(33:55):
know, better and better solutions to increase our
energy, you know, basically supply and AII don't know the
exact data. I think it's a tech story.
If you search something on an Internet search engine versus on
the AI, you know the Chat GPTS and the others because of all
the mainframe computers, it's something like 20 times more
(34:17):
power that is used to just make that search because the queries
are so much deeper with the AI. So again, AI may solve the
problem for some clean energy, but it ends up just getting used
to support the AI. And I'm like the simple guy that
likes to go hiking and biking and kayaking and paddle boarding
(34:37):
and rock climbing, things that require no outside energy but
human power. So I'm, I'm hoping that the ESG
trend pivots back a little bit from the making more power into
the saving energy and we can, wecan find a middle ground.
Middle ground there. Yeah.
It's. A challenge with the mega trends
around the sustainability of ESGor climate change and
(35:00):
biodiversity and AI is compounding that challenge.
So that's clearly something interesting to let me jump in.
With just one thing, because I referenced this disclaimer, the
dietary supplement disclaimer, which I want to read, and then
I'm going to tell you why I wantto read it.
It says these statements have not been evaluated by the Food
and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to
(35:22):
diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, right?
It's not like, hey, we're curingcancer.
We have lots of good research onthe website about the benefits
and how and why, which vitamin, Harvard studies, other studies,
all on where and how we can make, you know, basically some
statement about benefits. But the reason I brought up this
FDA is we don't know as much about the human Biome, our gut
(35:46):
health as we know about outer space in the ocean.
And FDA is basically saying withthese supplements, you know, you
guys kind of police yourself, you know, make sure in our case
there's almost nothing to police.
It's 100% organic kale that's freeze dried and it's powder
eyes. There's no mix of other stuff.
Imagine if we spent more time looking at the food and the
supplements and the way to put the right things in our body as
(36:10):
opposed to the pharma industry, this trillion dollars of statins
and pills that try and take careof things after there's a
problem, right? The high cholesterol, the
diabetes, we should eat better food.
The fuel we put in our bodies ismore important to me than the
solution to fix something after it's broken.
We should make the better car rather than trying to take it
(36:30):
into the shop, you know, and, and fix it and put it the right
fuel in that car. So I brought up that FDA in the
disclaimer because the FDA and the food triangle pyramid we had
when I was a kid, Oh my God. It was just, it was like paid
for by the the dairy lobby. There was like butter and cheese
in every single meal and all thethe animal products as opposed
(36:52):
to the veggies. So I'm no big conspiracy
theorist, but I think that this is like basically we changed the
food pyramid because it was wrong.
And now we're going to learn about the food that's often high
processed in the in the center of the grocery stores versus the
perimeter. That's really not as good for
people as they may be presented on the on the box.
(37:13):
So we have to be super sensitiveto the fuel we put in our body.
And I'm just frustrated in the sustainability side too, that we
haven't made it much more of an initiative to look at how we
could make it affordable. It's easy to say go buy grass
fed beef, you know, the, the free range chicken without the
antibiotics. And if you look at the sticker
price, they're not even the same.
I mean, like the organic kale istwice the cost because kale is
(37:36):
like a sponge for pesticides andit holds it, It's one of the big
10. We have only 100% organic kale
because you don't want those chemicals in your body.
So I'm just, I guess I have a level of frustration that like
the government with all its ability, has not found a way to
encourage, is it tax incentives?Is it something for the the
underserved community as well aseveryone else to live better?
(37:58):
Because the food capability is there and growing locally could
solve a bunch of those problems as well to have farms closer to
cities. That's.
Which takes us to what is your thoughts or advice for papers
driven innovation? That's what balance the long
term impact which we talked about earlier on about the
saving generations. How can papers driven teams or
(38:20):
companies build bold innovation that has a long term impact and
trust building as well? OK, so purpose driven.
Is such a great, powerful word, and this idea of having a
mission is I think it's the difference between a team sport
and an individual activity. The purpose of the team is to
win some some game. The individual might win but
(38:41):
doesn't need to rely sometimes on others.
And I've said sustainability is a team sport.
There is no one person, there isno one technology, radar, only
kale product is not going to solve the problem.
It is a spoke again on the wheel.
And there's a great African proverb.
You can correct me if this is spoken incorrectly, but it's if
you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go
(39:06):
together. Love that.
So this idea of purpose is goingfar.
The 7th generation I referenced is going far.
How about this in the in the Gambia, I did a had a nonprofit,
the first light project and gaveLED lights to a hospital general
manager for two hospitals as a donation because they were
trying to come to the US and raise money for solar panels.
(39:27):
They could only light up half ofthe rooms in the hospital with
the solar. They wanted more solar panels.
I said, can you send me the the utility bill bills because I
think I can solve this problem without any solar panels And the
lights reduce the cost of their electric bill to where the
actual number of current solar panels powered the whole
building, right. Saving the waste cutting that
(39:51):
that flaw in their system, whichwas the old fluorescent tubes
was a solution to reduce what they were needing rather than
add more electricity, which I just referenced in one of the
other notes. Like we don't need more stuff.
We need to be smarter with how we use the electrons.
Well, the reason this is interesting and the purpose is
it took a whole team with the management of the hospital, with
(40:12):
the auditors to count the light bulbs, with our ground team here
in the US, with the nonprofit that we set up.
With the manufacturing of the lights, dozens and dozens of
people to make a simple action come to life.
So the Charlie idea was let's not buy you more solar panels.
Let's buy you lights that use 10% of the energy.
Now this layer of things happened over multiple weeks and
(40:35):
months. And then we go on the shipping
container, off we go moving the lights.
The US made lights to Africa. Small point, but those are the
kind of things that resonate with me and I remember and I've
told my kids are 19 and 15. Now think about the team.
They both are on team, you know,play team sports.
That can be a metaphor in life for business, for purpose driven
(40:57):
businesses that you pull in people's skills, you find
solutions to get to a goal, a long term goal as well as short
term. What's your?
Final thoughts or advice for those who are listening
personally about healthy eating or a papers driven leader?
Yeah, your final thought? Any Yeah, the final.
(41:17):
Thought is basically wake up with purpose to make each day as
special as possible. You spend it with the ones you
love. You learn things each day to
make an effort. It might be a documentary or
some podcast that's not just another ROM com movie, but try
and absorb something and then try and share it.
(41:38):
And that is really a way to engage and have a active life
with the people you love, with the friends.
And you will be shocked with thenew friends that you make.
Because when you learn somethingand you start to share and they
rift off of it, maybe there's a nuance that they share that is
counter and don't push back or you got to listen.
But the idea of waking up and trying to do something that is
(42:01):
good for you, for your family and then also has that 7th
generation mindset for sustainability is about active
living and staying healthy and happy.
Awesome A huge. Thank you to Charlie for your
time and the incredible insightshas been a great lesson on the
triple bottom line from the environment to the economic, to
(42:22):
the people, the community, the whole key aspect.
So if listeners like your work or the only cow, where can they
find more of your work? Only kale.
Great, nice and. Simple.
Thank you, Enoch. Really, really enjoyed the time
together today. Thank you.
You're welcome.
We might spend the extra dollar on $10.00 for recycled paper
because it's good for the planetand the people on the planet
that are our customers, right? It's not this selfish.
Look at just profit, profit, profit.
It's people, planet, and profit can all coexist.
(00:20):
That's the triple bottom line. And I think it's hard to embed
that in people's minds because although it's only a dollar for
the recycling, I mean that maybeit's the container systems, the
paper from the copier, maybe it's the water on the the roof
that is collected for the landscaping.
So as a quick example, it's crazy that we use this
(00:42):
incredible filtration and technology to have potable
drinking water all across the United States.
And every day we are just pumping hundreds of millions of
gallons into landscaping right there.
Welcome to Sustainability Transformations podcast where we
(01:03):
explore both ideas to drive positive change for people,
community and business. Today's guest is inventive,
mission driven ESG pioneer on this oriented and a triple
bottom line thinker. Charlie Saradi is a
sustainability entrepreneur and founder of Only Kel, a new
(01:25):
venture making super foods affordable, accessible and easy
to integrate into everyday life.And the key goal of our
discussion on the theme is bridging A sustainable food
innovation and Wellness. Charlie, thank you for joining
us. You've worked across energy,
real estate and now nutrition. What connects your 30 year
(01:45):
sustainability journey? Well, Enoch, thank you for
hosting and having me. I really applaud everything
you've done with with your career.
And I see a lot of alignment there because sustainability is
not just an electric car or a solar house.
It's the whole way we think about living and working on this
beautiful planet of ours in somecooperative way with the other
plants and animals. It's an unselfish way of
(02:07):
thinking about life. And it can also lead to
profitable businesses and happiness, not just protect the
planet. The planet, ironically, as you
may know, is going to be okay. It's actually save us, not save
the Earth. So I'll start by saying thank
you, but then just give you a quick little update.
You know, back in the, in the East late 80s, I was at the
(02:31):
University of Virginia studying architecture, worked for a
couple years in Washington, DC and was then inspired at the
University of Pennsylvania for my masters degree as an
architect by Kenya Mariama, who is a great Japanese thinker for
sustainability. This is early 90s and I had the
unbelievable good fortune to work with him in Tokyo.
(02:52):
And I started to see that sustainability was about living
well as opposed to a perception of it just being sort of a green
or liberal cause to save something.
It was about wealth, health, andall those good things that could
come from connecting, connectingand knowing the complexity of
the, the ecosystem. The pivot for me came when I
(03:12):
realized that architecture aloneand I have a solar house that I
built here in in Wayne, PA near Philadelphia, one at the beach
down at our Jersey Shore house in an electric car.
And I thought those are all great things and grow grew some
food at home. And I realized that the
buildings themselves are not going to solve the problem.
As an architect inside those buildings, there were the
(03:35):
lights. And I pivoted towards making LED
lights. And this was about 15 years ago,
before LED's were even popular at the big box stores.
There were no aisles that had LED lights.
Like maybe there would be a headlamp if you went biking at
night. You know, it was it was crazy.
So pioneering that with a patentand a production facility here
(03:55):
in the US was great. Navy ships, military bases,
Walter Reed hospital all under contract with are US made LED
lights that honestly save 90% ofthe energy.
They cost more but we could justify the math on how it was a
return on investment. It was very favorable pay back
within a few years. During that time, the foods
(04:16):
trigger started because some people were calling in from
California about using the lights to grow plants.
Controlled environment. Agriculture has a burden of
electrical bills, right? If you're not using the sun,
which is free, you got to pay the electric bill.
It was first, by the way, the cannabis guys that are on the
leading bleeding edge of technology for for California,
(04:38):
but also around the world. And I realized you could also
grow romaine lettuce. You grow the leafy greens like
the kale and the kale caught my eye.
The kale caught my eye because it is the most nutrient dense
superfood on earth. Good for bones, good for heart,
good for the immune system, skin, eyes, hair, detox.
It was like, wow, pharma with all their trillions of dollars
(04:59):
can't really do what Mother Nature can do in terms of
producing something so simple and and powerful for health.
OK, pivoted, started finding theways to move the kale and it
looked like refrigeration was one of the challenges.
So in transportation, if you have to keep something cold,
people forget that. And almost 90% of the veggies
(05:19):
are coming from California. And I'm all the way over here in
Philly. That's over 2000 miles.
The burden on the environment isso real for making and
transporting food that it's about a 23 to 24% impact on
greenhouse gas emissions. It's shocking number because
buildings might be 6% cars and transportation might be 12.
(05:42):
It's more of a burden on the planet to make and move food
than just about anything else. So growing locally was one
option, but not always easy. And I'm going to wrap this sort
of narrative in a second becauseit was as simple as looking at
how to powderize something so good as kale.
We looked at dehydrating. You lose 30 or 40% of the
nutrients. That's not dissimilar to the
(06:04):
nutrients that are lost when youmove leaf kale across the
country for multiple days. Freeze drying was the answer,
preserving 97% of the nutrients.We put the freeze drying on the
farms, we powderize it and we can ship it at 110th of the
weight and shelf stable, no refrigeration needs.
So this was the breakthrough moment in the last two years and
(06:24):
it was the the inspiration for only kale, which now it comes in
single serve stick packs, powderthat you can just mix into any
drink. And the idea it's really pretty
simple. If you make something fast and
easy and affordable for someone that's less than you know, $0.75
a day, all of a sudden you can adopt change, whether it's in
the underserved communities or whether it's for the the wealthy
(06:47):
suburban families that want to have a healthier lifestyle.
We don't care. We want to help everyone and we
tried to make it as affordable as possible and work also with
some nonprofits to try and make it, make it even more meaningful
for people in the, in the food deserts, in the underserved
communities. There's the quick Charlie story.
Took a little longer than I had planned, but I hope that helps
put in perspective the journey I've been on.
(07:09):
It's a fascinating journey and there are a number of areas we
can explore. What is that freeze drying again
that you finally discovered? If you can unpack what?
The freeze drying, it goes back to some of the NASA programs,
you know, way, way back into thein the 60s and even before.
But the idea is if in a vacuum, you can take out the the
(07:30):
moisture, the moisture is a significant portion of the
weight. And if you can do that under the
the vacuum pressure without removing the nutrients, all the
better. So dehydrating.
And I bought some initially for myself for testing dehydration
machines. That's taking out the moisture
as well, Enoch. But what it does is in that
process, it's losing some of those, those nutrients.
(07:53):
And that's where, you know, we're so proud of our nutrient
like fact sheet and being able to basically have the vitamins,
DAE, B6, the things that help and the antioxidants.
So it's not just about like lessweight.
You have to try and preserve thegood stuff.
Otherwise, you're just wasting your time.
That's impressive. So you were in ESG before it
(08:16):
became a buzzword. What was the earliest part for
sustainable business thinking, would you say?
So it's so interesting because Iwas, I think at the forefront in
some way because I was able to do some things that weren't just
like a solar house. Then this is way back, you know,
coming into, I think it was one of the first properties in
(08:37):
Pennsylvania that didn't look like a solar house.
So part of the challenge with technology is I'll just take the
example of the cyber truck that Tesla makes.
It clearly does not look like anything else.
That's fine and good, but I think they were relatively smart
with something like the ASS and the Model 3 to make them feel
kind of sporty and look like something you would be happy to
(08:59):
drive. Now, the the politics of what's
happening with Musk and Tesla isgoing to be a separate podcast.
We're not going to go there, go there today, but the idea is to
make something that is functional but also aesthetic
and then sustainable. So if it's something that's a
burden to use in terms of the function, maybe I don't care as
much that it's helping the the planet.
(09:20):
If it's not affordable, I don't know if I'm going to go that
deep. And then some of the things that
we love just don't help the planet at all, right?
The traditional like say combustion engines or the houses
that burn through so much fuel. So the way I did the
breakthrough was not only solar for making electricity on a
house that looked pretty traditional and was appealing to
a lot of people, but had hot water systems.
(09:42):
So I would not just make the electrons, say for the air
conditioning, but designed it with operable windows for cross
ventilation. So you would get some free
aspect of what Mother Earth provides, which is a breeze in
the evening and maybe the morning even on very hot days.
And then heated the water not just for the showers and the
laundry, but with separate panels all facing S, all at the
(10:04):
right angle. And they heat the floor through
a radiant floor heating system with coils under the tile at a
400 gallon tank, much bigger than a traditional tank that was
like a storage system with copper coils in it.
And so the combination of feeding the water system for the
floors, the domestic hot water, a trigger backup was an on
(10:27):
demand system. And this is again coming up on,
you know, like 20 years ago whenI got this house, the and and
renovated did all started all the work.
Those backups were as important as the primary meaning no one
wants the great sustainable house that in my case made the
with my wife then and kids the cover of Inventor's Digest
(10:49):
magazine, right? So it wasn't like Good
Housekeeping. This was like the inventor's
magazine. The backups were just as
important because if you don't have hot water in the shower or
if you had the wrong type of shower head that doesn't feel
like you have enough pressure, no one wants it.
So part of the challenge in the early ESG days were this
perception that it was going to be less quality, less of a
lifestyle benefit, less of a sort of a wealthy living, you
(11:12):
know, kind of play. And I found that balance for
what was at the time $125.00 square foot to build, which was
less than the average of the suburban builder houses.
So it was affordable, it was sustainable, it was functional,
and it was aesthetic. Check those boxes and off we we
went. That's impressive with all of
those initial. So the definition of
(11:34):
sustainability have recently sort of struggled with different
people seem to have different definition of what
sustainability is and perhaps there might be no sustainability
is not enough. We have to be regenerating, we
have to be cyclic economy or youknow the difference between
sustainability and ESG. Of course, you know how you
define sustainability across design, energy, and now health.
(11:58):
So I love the Native American story about 7 generations and
definition of sustainability wasto think of the actions we take
have an impact on those that follow us.
And if you can do something thatwill not adversely impact the
7th generation, now you have adopted A sustainability
mindset. So the small act I did of
(12:20):
becoming a personal trainer withthe National Academy of Sports
Medicine is a need that I have for myself to learn about health
and Wellness for physical fitness that will only have an
impact for 7 generations if I teach my children about
balancing their diet and exercise in those things and
they teach their children. But for sure that action that I
(12:43):
took will not have a negative impact.
It will have a positive impact. It's just a question of how much
designing the house and telling the kids all about the things so
that they can share those stories with their friends is an
act of sustainability. Because I would then invite Boy
Scout, Girl Scout troops in drive.
My wife then absolutely crazy because like, it was like a
(13:06):
Tuesday afternoon and I'm like giving tours and we had to like
clean up the, you know, the house.
And the point is, I was thinkingabout those 7th generations that
maybe they tell their children who tell their children.
And we start to think that when you buy a product, when you make
something even with the LED lights, that for literally a
decade we had the longest running warranty, 10 year
(13:29):
warranty, and everyone else was three or five years longest
running, most environmentally friendly lights in the history
of the world. And someone will continue to do
that because once you pay the lower bill, you're probably not
going to go back to a higher, you know, a cost operating a
light bulb. That idea of seven generations
is, I think important. What you do should not have a
negative negative impact on people or the planet, and if
(13:51):
anything it should create a lift.
Right. So that's fascinating with those
7 generations. So could it be that traditional
leadership thinking or leadership styles need a revamp
to the for example, the 7th generation in order for
sustainability to thrive from whether government leadership or
(14:13):
business leadership, the traditional ways of leadership
to change the mindset. Absolutely.
And I'll tell you that it's not a big paradigm shift, it's a
pivot. And so here's what's
interesting. With a for profit business,
you're supposed to as an executive and I'm the CEO of
only Cal, think of your shareholders first.
So if you were going to buy a ream of paper for the copy
(14:35):
machine, you should technically buy the least expensive stack of
500 sheets, whatever it is, as opposed to the recycled paper,
which might cost 10% more. So by mandate in some way, to
preserve shareholder value, we have set a pattern of rules that
is not beneficial to the collective, meaning other people
and often the planet, habitants,plants and animals.
(14:58):
The nonprofit company does not have those same rules and they
could support the purchase of a recycled set of copy paper.
What's interesting with B Corp and there's a bridge and this is
a Philadelphia based group that I was pleased to sign the
Declaration of Interdependence back in like 2007.
The middle ground, it's saying you can be a for profit
(15:21):
business, but you add a bylaw language strip in your
agreement, your operating agreement that says we are
sometimes going to take the HighRoad.
We might spend the extra dollar on $10 for recycled paper
because it's good for the planetand the people on the planet
(15:42):
that are our customers, right? It's not this selfish.
Look at just profit, profit, profit.
It's people, planet, and profit can all coexist.
That's the triple bottom line. And I think it's hard to embed
that in people's minds because although it's only a dollar for
the recycling, I mean that maybeit's the container systems, the
(16:03):
paper from the copier, maybe it's the water on the the roof
that is collected for the landscaping.
So as a quick example, it's crazy that we use this
incredible filtration and technology to have potable
drinking water all across the United States.
And every day we are just pumping hundreds of millions of
gallons into landscaping, right?That doesn't necessarily need
(16:26):
that level of cost to basically filter the water.
Rainwater collection tanks, and I have them at our residence,
are awesome for landscape water,right?
You've gotten in this cycle of earth.
So that's not a cost, that's actually saving money.
It seems like a green thing, butyou have to spend the money on
the barrel once, collect the water and run it into the
system. And the barrels could be massive
(16:48):
at a corporate office. So when I see roofs, I'm
imagining that like they could be growing vegetables locally to
feed their group for the lunch. They could be collecting
rainwater. They could be making electricity
with the solar. So it's like our mindset has
been status quo. Pay the electric bill, pay the
water bill. It's crazy.
It's like crazy When the asset exists and for free, it rains.
(17:10):
At some point it will rain even in the driest, you know, places.
So there's Charlie's approach. Tweak the rule.
Don't Don't always make the corporate required to just think
bottom, bottom, bottom line in the short term, but think about
investing in efficiency and the future.
That's so inspirational because when people think about
sustainability and they have to come up with a new initiative,
(17:33):
for some reason, the initial thought goes to the most
expensive, but not thinking about, as you mentioned,
rainwater harvesting, yes, you make some investment, but
compared to other initiatives which you can take up so
quickly. So that's great.
You've shared how you've moved from the LEDs and the HVAC
(17:54):
optimization to the holy cow, but was there personal or market
insight which really inspired you to pivot into the Super food
space? So it was interesting what my
father had come from Budapest, Hungary, in the 50s after the
war and escaped through the IronCurtain as an architect.
And I was at his feet at the drafting table in the 70s,
(18:16):
drawing in like the the trees onthe architectural presentations
for some of the solar projects that he was working on as an
architect. So I was inspired by someone who
had been there at the very earliest stages and then built
with two friends from from high school and 8th grade, a solar
boat that won the popular prize for the science fair.
(18:39):
So I'd read it was Jimmy Carter had put the solar panels on the
White House. Turns out later Reagan took them
off, But that's separate separate also podcast.
I thought this was cool. We could use them for
transportation. That solar was going to be the
future of everything. And this is now coming up on
like not quite, but almost 50 years ago.
And so I was inspired at a youngage to see the potential for
(19:02):
innovative architecture, innovative technologies and with
efficiencies. We were told to turn the lights
off when we left the room and the TV's off.
And with the thermostat, it was before they were really smart
thermostats. But I learned from my, my dad
then that you didn't need at night for the, the heating cost
(19:22):
as much demand because if you were under your blankets, you
could turn it down a little bit and that would save some energy.
And with the air conditioning, if we weren't going to be there,
because I was at school during the day, mom was a teacher and
dad went off to work as the architect, the air conditioning,
we would turn back up when we got back to the, the house.
(19:43):
Now today with the the various technologies, you can have it
automated and the timer could set it at, you know, whatever
5:30 PM it would pre cool from your house how to open the
windows and get the draft in theevening.
So these were the beginnings forHVAC for me, the heating,
ventilating and air conditioning.
And I would now work actually asa as an advisor consultant for a
(20:04):
company that uses very sophisticated algorithms to save
energy from major corporate buildings by doing those little
micro adjustments. So those small things were I was
learning about them at such an early age that it sort of became
obvious that other people shoulddo this.
And I was shocked, shocked at the lack of adoption because it
(20:25):
was perceived, I think, as a liberal cause.
And I hated that it was like Earth Day and everything became
sort of a green hippie thing, that it was branded and pushed
to be polar to like this sort ofconservative mindset.
I'm like, it's the most conservative thing ever to save
energy, right? Like I'm shocked to this day
that the message hasn't been adopted to be smart, clean
(20:49):
technology for America that's efficient that we could all get
behind instead of making it somehow a political debate
shouldn't be a debate at all. We should save money and save
the planet and live better, period.
Absolutely. I mean, conserve is
conservative, so. Exactly.
So makes only kale different because we've got a few green
(21:11):
powders in the market. Can you help the listeners try
and pinpoint? Absolutely.
There are so many supplements now we have what is called a
crowded space. And if you look at the
packaging, there are lots of layers in terms of ingredients.
So let's let's take first the idea of total body solutions.
(21:32):
So there are lots of powders, whether they're green, yellow,
blue, pink, doesn't matter, thatclaim to do all kinds of things
for like anti aging and, you know, meal replacement.
And it's overwhelming to consumers.
And we thought about a spoke on the wheel that you need to eat
actual food, preferably whole food, you know, whether it's
(21:54):
grass fed beef, whether it's, you know, poultry that is free
range or vegetables that are grown locally.
You know, unfortunately I have to spend sometimes a little more
money to get the, the quality that's not overloaded with, you
know, pesticides and all kinds of high process stuff.
Simplicity of the word only. And kale was 100% organic kale
powder. And you choose how to mix it in.
(22:16):
In my case, I just have it everyday.
I'm drinking it right now with water in the morning.
Whey protein, perhaps you have an organic protein that's veggie
based. Mix it in and it's just a, you
know, it's just a tear the top right in the shaker, no blender
needed. I'll have collagen, you know,
for skin. I'll have creatine for working
out and it just shake it up and off we go.
(22:38):
And the families that have, let's just say kids that don't
love veggies, you can put it in lasagna, you can throw it in the
soup, you can throw it in the salad dressing.
And all of a sudden there's a way to get what is the
equivalent of fun serving of kale so fast and easy and
affordably. And now you don't have to have
the consternation and the stress.
Like my kids maybe didn't get their three servings of veggies
(23:00):
because there's sometimes just less time in the day.
So we decided to go narrow, narrow, narrow and have it be a
single serve and a single product that is the most
nutrient dense food and not jumble up the offering with all
kinds of like added flavors, added other nutrients.
People take their multivitamin pills.
There's plenty of ways to get other nutrients, but don't think
(23:23):
of it as a solution to solve allyour problems.
It's a spoke on the wheel and ifyou ride that bike and the wheel
goes nice and smoothly down the path, you will go further.
That's cute. So how are you solving the
accessibility and the affordability in the health food
market? Great question.
So. What happens in when we'll go by
(23:44):
50,000 units. The, the, the stick packs are
not individually made by hand, right.
We have automation and machines.We have our partner for Co
packing in San Diego with solar on the roof and a net zero
delivery on the impact for actually the production of our
product. Very, very unique in the space.
(24:04):
That had everything to do with my initial instinct with the
seven generations to make sure that we can stick with what we
believe and not greenwash. There are plenty of people that
talk about, you know, why they're doing green things and
it's kind of like if you pull the cover up, you're like,
that's not quite the same, the same deal.
So this is about human health and Wellness and planetary
(24:26):
health and Wellness coexisting right there at scale.
We can pass all that saving advantage on to the consumer.
We're not I'm making a big profit.
You know, it's a massive level. I have envy of the let's just
say the, the software Microsoft's of the world where
they make it once and then when it scales, they just make so
much money, right? The profit, this one we have to
(24:48):
make each time, but at least there's some machines that you
know, that put the powder in andwe we don't, we don't, we're not
hand crafting each little each little stick pack.
So that's how we can get to the affordability.
And with the Internet, there's less middle men.
So one of the challenges with retail is they buy it often for
50% of what they charge the retail buyer.
(25:09):
On the Internet, we can get it out the door typically for less.
And that way we're still making some money to pay for overhead.
And one of the things we need todo with some of those dollars is
also work with these underservedcommunities because it's not
just the North Philadelphia, theBaltimore, parts of Atlanta,
Detroit, Every city has some area where there's often a food
(25:30):
desert, meaning you're further than a mile to walk to a grocery
store that has some actual vegetables.
And that's a real problem because 90% of the United States
is not getting enough vegetableseach day.
The full 3 servings. And in the inner city and some
of these underserved rural communities as well, It's it's
much, much worse with obesity levels going up with diabetes.
(25:51):
I don't think I need to tell you, Enoch, it's good to eat
some vegetables each day. Yes.
And we're a crutch in that, in that wheel to get you there.
Yeah. Regarding the.
Greenwashing. I've looked into why some
companies fall into the trap andone of the areas is a lot of
companies come up with the idea of being sustainable.
There's no action. And once they come up with the
(26:11):
idea of sustainability, they mayget a few awards, they may get a
few buzz. And then when it comes to
actually delivering the idea, then a few companies start to
backtrack because they, you know, and some will start to
say, oh, we didn't realize it was going to cost us this much
or we needed to make some investments and so on.
So that's kind of interesting when you touched on something
(26:33):
that they have. A sustainability plan and it
looks all good on the Internet and you're like where where are
the actual action items that might include having at their
break room like the the filteredwater so they'll buy it drives
me nuts. The single serve plastic water
bottles as a courtesy for the staff, which is producing these
9 billion bottles, you know, a year of trash that end up in the
(26:55):
ocean and our food supply chain as opposed to a filtered water
system where they tell their staff, I'm going to buy you like
instead of just a glass maybe a canister like one of those
aluminum canisters that has the company logo on it just fill it
up with water for free from the water filter.
Yeah, it's like the number of plastic and that and the
self-serve stuff. I mean that the single serve is
is absolutely insane. We like having the idea of food
(27:18):
on demand, whether you can grow some on on the roof, whether you
can have the the kale powder there for your staff if they
need a little energy, some veggies in the afternoon.
But like I would enjoy consulting to some of those big
shot corporations as I did with the lighting and the air
conditioning efficiency to say, here are 10 things you can do
that might even include like blinds for the windows on the
(27:40):
southern exposure that just in the afternoon reduce some of the
heat gain. And little tiny things like
having a garden on the roof to grow some veggies for the
handful of the staff that might want to volunteer to participate
is a show of participation, right?
Is someone in charge of pushing one button or is it even
automated with a photocell to like close some blinds so you're
(28:02):
not overheating the building? Save a little energy harvest,
which is super fun for me, clipping some veggies and
bringing them down to throw in your salad at lunch.
That idea of being engaged with architecture is actually in my
book, the Learn From Looking book, which is active living
versus passive living in building things.
Opening the shutters in the old farmhouse to let the light in
(28:23):
right. The participation of how you
might imagine planting A deciduous tree that has shade in
the summer but loses its leaves in the winter on the the South
side of your house, which we did.
Knowing that you're just not in a box living, but you're
actively participating in life is different where, you know,
scoop out the rain water from the rain barrel or something.
(28:45):
You're watering one of the houseplants.
Like living in a way that is dynamic and not just hoping you
pull up your phone and click an app and food magically shows up
with Grubhub at your door, right?
Growing, cutting, cooking, participating with the kids and
that's that's a whole mindset ofactive living, not passive
living you worked with. Fortune one hundreds which are
(29:07):
some of the successful companiesaround the world and the US
military. What lessons from those work did
you bring into this consumer facing products?
The only care. So it was basically.
The mindset of make it accessible and fun and kind of
like even the the the logo lick is whimsical at the Fortune 500.
(29:28):
The leading companies 100 in thein the world have done things
that attract consumers as opposed to sometimes the
perception of like the nonprofitand the do gooders.
So we try to do something that felt super accessible in terms
of the branding, the social media, people having fun, people
showing off how they're living better doing things, not dislike
(29:49):
beat down of like we need to do this because it's an existential
threat to humans if we don't. I had the, the good fortune of,
of meeting Al Gore multiple, multiple times and as the author
of the Inconvenient truth, you know, had had discussions that
were simply like, we have to be careful not to put people on
their heels and get defensive about driving their SUV, which
(30:14):
they love with the kids in the suburbs.
So if you antagonize people, I think the answer to your
question about what we've learned is don't piss people
off, right? So if we can come in with a
positive message and on the box,like they come in and it's a box
of 15. But the the energy and the bones
in the skin and the heart and the recovery, if people are
(30:36):
working out, it's a way to get better.
It's immunity, eyes, hair detox and weight loss.
Well, all these things are great.
And you know, the disclaimer is the FDA has itself policed with
the, the, the way that we're notexpecting anyone believes FDA
makes all these claims, you know, and does the, the, the
cross checking. But it's, it's interesting if
you make claims, you know, with the disclaimer, we have to be
(30:59):
sensitive to all that stuff. It's the supplement disclaimer.
Follow the rules. We also learned from the, the
top corporations in the world play in the field that is fair
and be sensitive to those those rules.
But don't make people feel bad for not buying some product.
It's a it's a opposite optimistic message versus a
pessimistic message, so essential.
(31:22):
And it's been a common theme about storytelling.
And there is this accession. Again, I'm no biologist, no a
psychologist, but it turns out that when people are scared, the
brain function to think shuts off.
And so it goes back to the idea of if the messaging is all about
fear, then you prevent people from actually thinking about the
(31:46):
opportunities that it brings, which perhaps ties in with the
key aspect of no using alarmism,for example, by the
opportunities that when you're sustainable or you look for the
more sustainable option from thehealth as we've discussed.
So that's good. So what sustainability or ESG
trend are you watching most closely right now?
(32:09):
OK, I love. This this question because with
the trends, there is so much noise about AI and how AI can
like potentially learn ways to create efficiencies, learn ways
to create renewable energy. I'm watching the tidal studies.
So in the ocean and in the rivers.
(32:29):
So the power, power of our mother Earth and to reduce
ourselves down to this little speck in the universe, right?
We've got this beautiful planet where we are here on a beautiful
special place. The motion of the ocean, the
tides, the rhythm of the power that comes from this gigantic
untapped wealth is so interesting to me versus
(32:50):
drilling oil versus the the interruptive side of wind and
solar. So wind is great at sometimes at
night, solar during the day, obviously.
So those intermittent, you know,moments of joy for getting
electrons is great. But the title thing is set is
really sexy to me because it's just it's it's just perpetual,
right? There's always emotion.
And so I think that may be a place for AI to step up the
(33:12):
game. My biggest concern, though, is
this idea of waiting for the renewable power solution, the
cold fusion, the title that we are drug addicts and that we use
25% of the world's energy here in the US with only about four,
4 1/2% of the population. So we're not only overweight in
terms of fitness, we're overweight in terms of
(33:34):
consumption of energy. More power, I don't think is the
answer. And I've been on the efficiency,
you know, basically soapbox for decades saying we need to be
smarter with how we use power, not necessarily how we just make
power. And that's what concerns me a
little bit. Is there?
There's the trend of like more, more, more ways to create, you
(33:55):
know, better and better solutions to increase our
energy, you know, basically supply and AII don't know the
exact data. I think it's a tech story.
If you search something on an Internet search engine versus on
the AI, you know the Chat GPTS and the others because of all
the mainframe computers, it's something like 20 times more
(34:17):
power that is used to just make that search because the queries
are so much deeper with the AI. So again, AI may solve the
problem for some clean energy, but it ends up just getting used
to support the AI. And I'm like the simple guy that
likes to go hiking and biking and kayaking and paddle boarding
(34:37):
and rock climbing, things that require no outside energy but
human power. So I'm, I'm hoping that the ESG
trend pivots back a little bit from the making more power into
the saving energy and we can, wecan find a middle ground.
Middle ground there. Yeah.
It's. A challenge with the mega trends
around the sustainability of ESGor climate change and
(35:00):
biodiversity and AI is compounding that challenge.
So that's clearly something interesting to let me jump in.
With just one thing, because I referenced this disclaimer, the
dietary supplement disclaimer, which I want to read, and then
I'm going to tell you why I wantto read it.
It says these statements have not been evaluated by the Food
and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to
(35:22):
diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease, right?
It's not like, hey, we're curingcancer.
We have lots of good research onthe website about the benefits
and how and why, which vitamin, Harvard studies, other studies,
all on where and how we can make, you know, basically some
statement about benefits. But the reason I brought up this
FDA is we don't know as much about the human Biome, our gut
(35:46):
health as we know about outer space in the ocean.
And FDA is basically saying withthese supplements, you know, you
guys kind of police yourself, you know, make sure in our case
there's almost nothing to police.
It's 100% organic kale that's freeze dried and it's powder
eyes. There's no mix of other stuff.
Imagine if we spent more time looking at the food and the
supplements and the way to put the right things in our body as
(36:10):
opposed to the pharma industry, this trillion dollars of statins
and pills that try and take careof things after there's a
problem, right? The high cholesterol, the
diabetes, we should eat better food.
The fuel we put in our bodies ismore important to me than the
solution to fix something after it's broken.
We should make the better car rather than trying to take it
(36:30):
into the shop, you know, and, and fix it and put it the right
fuel in that car. So I brought up that FDA in the
disclaimer because the FDA and the food triangle pyramid we had
when I was a kid, Oh my God. It was just, it was like paid
for by the the dairy lobby. There was like butter and cheese
in every single meal and all thethe animal products as opposed
(36:52):
to the veggies. So I'm no big conspiracy
theorist, but I think that this is like basically we changed the
food pyramid because it was wrong.
And now we're going to learn about the food that's often high
processed in the in the center of the grocery stores versus the
perimeter. That's really not as good for
people as they may be presented on the on the box.
(37:13):
So we have to be super sensitiveto the fuel we put in our body.
And I'm just frustrated in the sustainability side too, that we
haven't made it much more of an initiative to look at how we
could make it affordable. It's easy to say go buy grass
fed beef, you know, the, the free range chicken without the
antibiotics. And if you look at the sticker
price, they're not even the same.
I mean, like the organic kale istwice the cost because kale is
(37:36):
like a sponge for pesticides andit holds it, It's one of the big
10. We have only 100% organic kale
because you don't want those chemicals in your body.
So I'm just, I guess I have a level of frustration that like
the government with all its ability, has not found a way to
encourage, is it tax incentives?Is it something for the the
underserved community as well aseveryone else to live better?
(37:58):
Because the food capability is there and growing locally could
solve a bunch of those problems as well to have farms closer to
cities. That's.
Which takes us to what is your thoughts or advice for papers
driven innovation? That's what balance the long
term impact which we talked about earlier on about the
saving generations. How can papers driven teams or
(38:20):
companies build bold innovation that has a long term impact and
trust building as well? OK, so purpose driven.
Is such a great, powerful word, and this idea of having a
mission is I think it's the difference between a team sport
and an individual activity. The purpose of the team is to
win some some game. The individual might win but
(38:41):
doesn't need to rely sometimes on others.
And I've said sustainability is a team sport.
There is no one person, there isno one technology, radar, only
kale product is not going to solve the problem.
It is a spoke again on the wheel.
And there's a great African proverb.
You can correct me if this is spoken incorrectly, but it's if
you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go
(39:06):
together. Love that.
So this idea of purpose is goingfar.
The 7th generation I referenced is going far.
How about this in the in the Gambia, I did a had a nonprofit,
the first light project and gaveLED lights to a hospital general
manager for two hospitals as a donation because they were
trying to come to the US and raise money for solar panels.
(39:27):
They could only light up half ofthe rooms in the hospital with
the solar. They wanted more solar panels.
I said, can you send me the the utility bill bills because I
think I can solve this problem without any solar panels And the
lights reduce the cost of their electric bill to where the
actual number of current solar panels powered the whole
building, right. Saving the waste cutting that
(39:51):
that flaw in their system, whichwas the old fluorescent tubes
was a solution to reduce what they were needing rather than
add more electricity, which I just referenced in one of the
other notes. Like we don't need more stuff.
We need to be smarter with how we use the electrons.
Well, the reason this is interesting and the purpose is
it took a whole team with the management of the hospital, with
(40:12):
the auditors to count the light bulbs, with our ground team here
in the US, with the nonprofit that we set up.
With the manufacturing of the lights, dozens and dozens of
people to make a simple action come to life.
So the Charlie idea was let's not buy you more solar panels.
Let's buy you lights that use 10% of the energy.
Now this layer of things happened over multiple weeks and
(40:35):
months. And then we go on the shipping
container, off we go moving the lights.
The US made lights to Africa. Small point, but those are the
kind of things that resonate with me and I remember and I've
told my kids are 19 and 15. Now think about the team.
They both are on team, you know,play team sports.
That can be a metaphor in life for business, for purpose driven
(40:57):
businesses that you pull in people's skills, you find
solutions to get to a goal, a long term goal as well as short
term. What's your?
Final thoughts or advice for those who are listening
personally about healthy eating or a papers driven leader?
Yeah, your final thought? Any Yeah, the final.
(41:17):
Thought is basically wake up with purpose to make each day as
special as possible. You spend it with the ones you
love. You learn things each day to
make an effort. It might be a documentary or
some podcast that's not just another ROM com movie, but try
and absorb something and then try and share it.
(41:38):
And that is really a way to engage and have a active life
with the people you love, with the friends.
And you will be shocked with thenew friends that you make.
Because when you learn somethingand you start to share and they
rift off of it, maybe there's a nuance that they share that is
counter and don't push back or you got to listen.
But the idea of waking up and trying to do something that is
(42:01):
good for you, for your family and then also has that 7th
generation mindset for sustainability is about active
living and staying healthy and happy.
Awesome A huge. Thank you to Charlie for your
time and the incredible insightshas been a great lesson on the
triple bottom line from the environment to the economic, to
(42:22):
the people, the community, the whole key aspect.
So if listeners like your work or the only cow, where can they
find more of your work? Only kale.
Great, nice and. Simple.
Thank you, Enoch. Really, really enjoyed the time
together today. Thank you.
You're welcome.
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