June 15, 2025 • 16 mins
By seven o'clock this morning the BBC was reporting a man knifed and dead in Pentonville, two seriously injured and two arrested. By the time I'd put the phone down on T, a guy had been slashed in the showers on the fives. A normal day in HMP. I am so familiar with the mayhem and violence that my biggest concern is being out of coffee.
During the three and a half years I was in prison I wrote over a million words by hand. Tales From The Jails is a contemporaneous account of my life, and attempts to thrive rather than merely survive, whilst incarcerated.
Most names have been changed. The events have not.
This is a Jekyll & Pride production.
Producer: Trevessa Newton
Title Music taken from The Confession, on the album Crimes Against Poetry (written and performed by The Shadow Poet, produced by Lance Thomas)
Copyright Jekyll & Pride Ltd 2025
@jekyllandpride2023
@theshadowpoettsp
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
During the three and a halfyears I was in prison, I wrote
(00:03):
over a million words by hand.
Tales from the Jails is acontemporaneous account of my
life, and attempts to thriverather than merely survive
whilst incarcerated.
Most names have been changed,but the events have not.
Episode 38 The Frenchman Byseven o'clock this morning the
(00:40):
BBC was reporting a man knifedand dead in Pentonville, two
seriously injured and twoarrested.
By the time I'd put the phonedown on T, a guy had been
slashed in the showers on thefives.
A normal day in HMP.I am sofamiliar with the mayhem and
(01:01):
violence that my biggest concernwas being out of coffee.
It was a relief to go to work at8.50, less for the chaos and
more because I had half a tin ofcoffee in the bedding stores.
I made two cups of coffee, woundthe radio and decompressed with
Funeral FM.
(01:23):
Debussy was playing, Clair deLune.
Big Reeve broke my moment ofescapism with news.
He was booked on the bus toKirkham.
Mr D had just informed him andhe was going in a couple of
days.
It came as a complete surpriseas he wasn't expecting to be
(01:45):
eligible for a couple of months.
But the biggest surprise of allwas that he was in two minds.
It was 9.20.
Then Big Joe rocked up likeHurricane Nicole sweeping into
Florida.
He's going too, and just assurprised, albeit he wasn't
(02:07):
suffering with second thoughts.
No, he was high on Cat D fever.
We celebrated with four cups ofcoffee.
I had two again.
I was thrilled for the lads,especially Reeve.
He has a partner and two youngchildren.
This is a game changer for him,especially with the family.
(02:31):
He'll be working, eligible forhome leaves and on his way to
rebuilding his life week by weekfrom now on, however, the Cat D
fever equals pad matemanoeuvres.
Most of them moody and shady.
10 minutes from now, it'swhispers and skullduggery.
(02:55):
By lunchtime, I'd helped Reevesee sense and it's time.
It was flattering that he'ssettled, especially with me.
So much so that he's reluctantto leave.
But it was simple.
It's time, seize it.
As he set off to confirm he wasgoing, not that he had much
(03:17):
option, I had to work on a planfor my own manoeuvres.
Not that I needed it.
Big Reeve was my bestadvertisement by wishing to
stay.
For all of my troubles to date,I was prime real estate.
And all the lads knew it.
Five minutes over another coffeeand Mr.
(03:38):
P of all people appeared withanother unexpected surprise and
he never delivers pleasant ones.
He'd been riding me for monthsnow.
He's horrible.
Just making my time down here asuncomfortable as possible.
He wants to sack me.
Worse than this, the Despicableshave seized it like dogs on a
(04:00):
bone.
Mr.
P needed a listener, and J waspreoccupied on the wings.
So would I step in?
The guy in question was aFrenchman and he'd been given
six months for assault.
Apparently he would not speak toanyone.
(04:21):
I was provided with a bareconsulting room the medics use
for admin stuff.
It has a table and two chairs.
It's in a glass fronted room,the size of a broom cupboard.
It's not discreet, nor is itwelcoming or conducive to
helping someone who appears tobe distressed by way of consumed
(04:42):
with sadness.
Mr.
P and Mr.
S escorted the mountain of a maninto the room.
He was black, somewhere close to50.
I thought he looked like abroken man rather than a threat.
But Mr.
P kept the surprises coming withan offer of a coffee, although I
(05:04):
knew he wouldn't be making it,nor would he be supplying it.
The easiest option was to tellhim Reeve could sort it.
He knows where my coffee is.
More importantly, the officersneeded to be gone so I could try
to make progress.
(05:24):
I chose not to rush or forcethings, but was aware we
probably had 30 minutes at best.
He needs to be fully processed,including a medical assessment,
and officers lose their patiencewith prisoners who either can't
cope or who hold them up in theprocess.
(05:45):
The coffees would be appearingwithin five minutes, and I opted
to use this time to introducemyself and explain what was
happening and why.
I told him who I was and that Iwas a Listener.
First thing before Reeve arrivedwas, do you have any questions?
(06:07):
The no was not spoken, but a nodthat suggested it.
I've got to be honest, I sawthat as progress.
Mr.
P had left him cuffed, for mysafety apparently, although I
surmised as much theirs.
As he sipped on his coffeeawkwardly in cuffs I asked him
(06:29):
his name.
I would never have guessed hewas French until he spoke.
His name was E and he told me hewanted to end his life.
It was 12.40 and we were barelyfive minutes in.
Sat in a goldfish bowl in Waltonprison.
(06:53):
I asked him what had led him tothis point and feeling.
Basically why?
Visibly upset, fragile, yetdetermined to end it all, he
told me he had three children.
I was shocked, although I didnot show it.
They were nine, 15, and 18.
(07:16):
I was a father and I'm acutelyaware of the devastation this
leaves behind especially forchildren.
The impact can last a lifetime.
I'm also aware of the reality,which is we're in prison, I'm in
at the deep end and the bloke infront of me is vulnerable.
(07:40):
I asked him, was he married?
Did the children have a mother,someone to care for them?
Then he opened up, and throughtears and French English, he
explained what had happened.
To be honest, it could have beena Carry On scene only that it
was serious and without beinginsensitive or betraying
(08:02):
confidentiality as such, hiswife had left him for another
man.
Apparently he caught themtogether in the marital bed.
He thumped the guy, not hismissus.
He's now being kicked out of themarital home and the new guy
moved in.
It was a mess, but in thismoment, it was far more serious
(08:25):
than a broken marriage.
He felt humiliated.
Not by the wife moving Mr.
Newbie in, but by the sentencein prison.
He seemed to take this thehardest.
The shame of it.
I explained again, he'll be outin weeks and desperate to see
(08:45):
the kids.
No, was his response.
Cold but calm.
I thought it was better havinghim talking than having him just
sit there and crying.
He told me he tried to killhimself twice before, once under
(09:06):
a train and another with pills.
Even I thought you're obviouslydoing something wrong, ie not
very good at it.
I can't describe the seriousnessof the situation.
He said he was a man who hadlost everything.
He felt ashamed and coming toprison was the final straw.
(09:30):
He said he had thought he wouldreceive community service and
had planned to return to workafter court.
He'd just taken a deposit off aclient to start a contract
tomorrow.
These small details seemed toweigh on him the most to the
point of the shame ofeverything, and prison, now the
(09:51):
ultimate humiliation.
Mr.
P returned in favourite granddadmode, an irony.
His friendliness was almostdisarming, especially when he
said, I just want you to know,me and the other staff, care.
(10:13):
I looked at him with completebewilderment.
Care?
Mr.
P?
I'm afraid they don't gotogether.
In that moment, I couldn't helpthinking the judge would be
proud of Mr.
P's performance.
30 seconds later, I resumed withthe listening.
The Frenchman became more upsetthan before, determined to end
(10:36):
his life, and I felt helpless.
Then, in my eye line, throughthe glass, the Despicables are
gathered to take the piss andwind me up, throw me off my
rhythm.
Each of them was the worst ofwretched creatures, all
pretending to be hangingthemselves by a noose.
(10:58):
It was like asylum inmatesperforming in a sick circus.
I focused on the Frenchman,relaying that many lads arrive
here feeling the same as he, andin a short space of time, they
find a resilience to cope, andhope to go on.
(11:18):
That things are never as bad asthey appear.
Twelve weeks is a short time,and within days, he could be
shipped out to an open prison.
The French Goliath remainedresolute.
He was ending it tonight.
The best I could say was how sadthat would be.
(11:40):
I asked him, did he have a faiththat he followed or believed in?
Another no.
I saw Mr.
P hovering.
My final words to the brokenFrenchmen were, I hope to see
you tomorrow, and if it helps,the words I find most comforting
late at night are, in my darkesthour I feel love and know that I
(12:04):
am loved.
He thanked me for beingconsiderate, but his eyes and
mind were elsewhere.
I had no option but to make Mr.
P aware.
Discreetly I told him theFrenchman wants to end it all at
the first opportunity.
(12:26):
It was obvious Mr.
P could do without the hassle.
But the French guy was big andofficers needed to handle with
care.
Mr.
P couldn't tell me anymore aboutwhat would happen to him other
than he'll be put on 24/7 watch.
That was no comfort.
It's not like private medicalcare.
No.
(12:47):
It's a cell with a glass front,and there's no 24/7.
Mr.
P returned with two moreofficers and one of the medics
and took the Frenchman away.
It felt like slow motion walkingback to the bedding stores.
Toenails shouted out of thekitchen, he'll want to hang
(13:11):
himself after being stuck inthere with you.
He'll only do 12 weeks.
I've had longer farts.
I didn't even bother to respond.
What a complete head fuck.
As a Listener, it was a nobrainer.
(13:32):
Not discussing or disclosingwhat was said in the room,
especially with the lads.
That's a no go.
J landed late in the day and asnumber one Listener, we chatted
about what had happened.
He disappeared to find out whathad become of the Frenchman, but
returned, baffled and with noinformation.
(13:55):
We finished the end of my coffeeover a game of cards.
A farewell game for the Cat Dlads.
I was conscious about Reeve, nowin jubilant spirits, and me not
wanting to dampen the mood backin the pad.
I'd hoped Mr.
T would return before wefinished work and at least give
(14:18):
me a positive update that theFrenchman had settled rather
than he was dead, but it was ano-show.
I spoke to T but didn't tell heranything over the phone.
It's inappropriate.
All calls are recorded.
And where would I begin?
(14:39):
I don't mind saying that theemotional swells are being close
to bursting the banks.
What a day.
It's impossible to stop thinkingabout the Frenchman.
I do hope he makes it throughthe night.
I'll miss Big Reeve, albeit itis time, or should I say the
(15:03):
right time?
Between the frustration ofprison life and his missus
struggling with young children,the pressure and guilt was
getting to the big guy.
We've laughed like school boysand we've trained hard.
He's been one of my besttraining partners ever.
He was so competitive and me notat all.
(15:28):
We used to chat for hours,especially in the early months
when it's all raw, scary andconfusing, and I suppose even if
we never speak again, we'reBlood Brothers for life, such is
our experience together.
Reeve, he was like a bodyguard.
(15:50):
No one was storming our pad whenhe was around, and in many ways,
he was the cloak of protectionor the buffer I needed whilst
navigating the treachery fromthe Despicables.
He's going and I'm thrilled forhim, although I'm back in the
precarious situation of havingto choose the right pad mate.
(16:10):
Although I'm confident, but notcertain, that that will sort
itself out by the time we'reunlocked in the morning, and if
I'm right, the person I'mthinking of, well, he'll make an
approach before we leave forwork.
However, in the here and now,five minutes before lights out,
(16:33):
my head and emotions arehijacked by thoughts of the
Frenchmen.
During the three and a halfyears I was in prison, I wrote
(00:03):
over a million words by hand.
Tales from the Jails is acontemporaneous account of my
life, and attempts to thriverather than merely survive
whilst incarcerated.
Most names have been changed,but the events have not.
Episode 38 The Frenchman Byseven o'clock this morning the
(00:40):
BBC was reporting a man knifedand dead in Pentonville, two
seriously injured and twoarrested.
By the time I'd put the phonedown on T, a guy had been
slashed in the showers on thefives.
A normal day in HMP.I am sofamiliar with the mayhem and
(01:01):
violence that my biggest concernwas being out of coffee.
It was a relief to go to work at8.50, less for the chaos and
more because I had half a tin ofcoffee in the bedding stores.
I made two cups of coffee, woundthe radio and decompressed with
Funeral FM.
(01:23):
Debussy was playing, Clair deLune.
Big Reeve broke my moment ofescapism with news.
He was booked on the bus toKirkham.
Mr D had just informed him andhe was going in a couple of
days.
It came as a complete surpriseas he wasn't expecting to be
(01:45):
eligible for a couple of months.
But the biggest surprise of allwas that he was in two minds.
It was 9.20.
Then Big Joe rocked up likeHurricane Nicole sweeping into
Florida.
He's going too, and just assurprised, albeit he wasn't
(02:07):
suffering with second thoughts.
No, he was high on Cat D fever.
We celebrated with four cups ofcoffee.
I had two again.
I was thrilled for the lads,especially Reeve.
He has a partner and two youngchildren.
This is a game changer for him,especially with the family.
(02:31):
He'll be working, eligible forhome leaves and on his way to
rebuilding his life week by weekfrom now on, however, the Cat D
fever equals pad matemanoeuvres.
Most of them moody and shady.
10 minutes from now, it'swhispers and skullduggery.
(02:55):
By lunchtime, I'd helped Reevesee sense and it's time.
It was flattering that he'ssettled, especially with me.
So much so that he's reluctantto leave.
But it was simple.
It's time, seize it.
As he set off to confirm he wasgoing, not that he had much
(03:17):
option, I had to work on a planfor my own manoeuvres.
Not that I needed it.
Big Reeve was my bestadvertisement by wishing to
stay.
For all of my troubles to date,I was prime real estate.
And all the lads knew it.
Five minutes over another coffeeand Mr.
(03:38):
P of all people appeared withanother unexpected surprise and
he never delivers pleasant ones.
He'd been riding me for monthsnow.
He's horrible.
Just making my time down here asuncomfortable as possible.
He wants to sack me.
Worse than this, the Despicableshave seized it like dogs on a
(04:00):
bone.
Mr.
P needed a listener, and J waspreoccupied on the wings.
So would I step in?
The guy in question was aFrenchman and he'd been given
six months for assault.
Apparently he would not speak toanyone.
(04:21):
I was provided with a bareconsulting room the medics use
for admin stuff.
It has a table and two chairs.
It's in a glass fronted room,the size of a broom cupboard.
It's not discreet, nor is itwelcoming or conducive to
helping someone who appears tobe distressed by way of consumed
(04:42):
with sadness.
Mr.
P and Mr.
S escorted the mountain of a maninto the room.
He was black, somewhere close to50.
I thought he looked like abroken man rather than a threat.
But Mr.
P kept the surprises coming withan offer of a coffee, although I
(05:04):
knew he wouldn't be making it,nor would he be supplying it.
The easiest option was to tellhim Reeve could sort it.
He knows where my coffee is.
More importantly, the officersneeded to be gone so I could try
to make progress.
(05:24):
I chose not to rush or forcethings, but was aware we
probably had 30 minutes at best.
He needs to be fully processed,including a medical assessment,
and officers lose their patiencewith prisoners who either can't
cope or who hold them up in theprocess.
(05:45):
The coffees would be appearingwithin five minutes, and I opted
to use this time to introducemyself and explain what was
happening and why.
I told him who I was and that Iwas a Listener.
First thing before Reeve arrivedwas, do you have any questions?
(06:07):
The no was not spoken, but a nodthat suggested it.
I've got to be honest, I sawthat as progress.
Mr.
P had left him cuffed, for mysafety apparently, although I
surmised as much theirs.
As he sipped on his coffeeawkwardly in cuffs I asked him
(06:29):
his name.
I would never have guessed hewas French until he spoke.
His name was E and he told me hewanted to end his life.
It was 12.40 and we were barelyfive minutes in.
Sat in a goldfish bowl in Waltonprison.
(06:53):
I asked him what had led him tothis point and feeling.
Basically why?
Visibly upset, fragile, yetdetermined to end it all, he
told me he had three children.
I was shocked, although I didnot show it.
They were nine, 15, and 18.
(07:16):
I was a father and I'm acutelyaware of the devastation this
leaves behind especially forchildren.
The impact can last a lifetime.
I'm also aware of the reality,which is we're in prison, I'm in
at the deep end and the bloke infront of me is vulnerable.
(07:40):
I asked him, was he married?
Did the children have a mother,someone to care for them?
Then he opened up, and throughtears and French English, he
explained what had happened.
To be honest, it could have beena Carry On scene only that it
was serious and without beinginsensitive or betraying
(08:02):
confidentiality as such, hiswife had left him for another
man.
Apparently he caught themtogether in the marital bed.
He thumped the guy, not hismissus.
He's now being kicked out of themarital home and the new guy
moved in.
It was a mess, but in thismoment, it was far more serious
(08:25):
than a broken marriage.
He felt humiliated.
Not by the wife moving Mr.
Newbie in, but by the sentencein prison.
He seemed to take this thehardest.
The shame of it.
I explained again, he'll be outin weeks and desperate to see
(08:45):
the kids.
No, was his response.
Cold but calm.
I thought it was better havinghim talking than having him just
sit there and crying.
He told me he tried to killhimself twice before, once under
(09:06):
a train and another with pills.
Even I thought you're obviouslydoing something wrong, ie not
very good at it.
I can't describe the seriousnessof the situation.
He said he was a man who hadlost everything.
He felt ashamed and coming toprison was the final straw.
(09:30):
He said he had thought he wouldreceive community service and
had planned to return to workafter court.
He'd just taken a deposit off aclient to start a contract
tomorrow.
These small details seemed toweigh on him the most to the
point of the shame ofeverything, and prison, now the
(09:51):
ultimate humiliation.
Mr.
P returned in favourite granddadmode, an irony.
His friendliness was almostdisarming, especially when he
said, I just want you to know,me and the other staff, care.
(10:13):
I looked at him with completebewilderment.
Care?
Mr.
P?
I'm afraid they don't gotogether.
In that moment, I couldn't helpthinking the judge would be
proud of Mr.
P's performance.
30 seconds later, I resumed withthe listening.
The Frenchman became more upsetthan before, determined to end
(10:36):
his life, and I felt helpless.
Then, in my eye line, throughthe glass, the Despicables are
gathered to take the piss andwind me up, throw me off my
rhythm.
Each of them was the worst ofwretched creatures, all
pretending to be hangingthemselves by a noose.
(10:58):
It was like asylum inmatesperforming in a sick circus.
I focused on the Frenchman,relaying that many lads arrive
here feeling the same as he, andin a short space of time, they
find a resilience to cope, andhope to go on.
(11:18):
That things are never as bad asthey appear.
Twelve weeks is a short time,and within days, he could be
shipped out to an open prison.
The French Goliath remainedresolute.
He was ending it tonight.
The best I could say was how sadthat would be.
(11:40):
I asked him, did he have a faiththat he followed or believed in?
Another no.
I saw Mr.
P hovering.
My final words to the brokenFrenchmen were, I hope to see
you tomorrow, and if it helps,the words I find most comforting
late at night are, in my darkesthour I feel love and know that I
(12:04):
am loved.
He thanked me for beingconsiderate, but his eyes and
mind were elsewhere.
I had no option but to make Mr.
P aware.
Discreetly I told him theFrenchman wants to end it all at
the first opportunity.
(12:26):
It was obvious Mr.
P could do without the hassle.
But the French guy was big andofficers needed to handle with
care.
Mr.
P couldn't tell me anymore aboutwhat would happen to him other
than he'll be put on 24/7 watch.
That was no comfort.
It's not like private medicalcare.
No.
(12:47):
It's a cell with a glass front,and there's no 24/7.
Mr.
P returned with two moreofficers and one of the medics
and took the Frenchman away.
It felt like slow motion walkingback to the bedding stores.
Toenails shouted out of thekitchen, he'll want to hang
(13:11):
himself after being stuck inthere with you.
He'll only do 12 weeks.
I've had longer farts.
I didn't even bother to respond.
What a complete head fuck.
As a Listener, it was a nobrainer.
(13:32):
Not discussing or disclosingwhat was said in the room,
especially with the lads.
That's a no go.
J landed late in the day and asnumber one Listener, we chatted
about what had happened.
He disappeared to find out whathad become of the Frenchman, but
returned, baffled and with noinformation.
(13:55):
We finished the end of my coffeeover a game of cards.
A farewell game for the Cat Dlads.
I was conscious about Reeve, nowin jubilant spirits, and me not
wanting to dampen the mood backin the pad.
I'd hoped Mr.
T would return before wefinished work and at least give
(14:18):
me a positive update that theFrenchman had settled rather
than he was dead, but it was ano-show.
I spoke to T but didn't tell heranything over the phone.
It's inappropriate.
All calls are recorded.
And where would I begin?
(14:39):
I don't mind saying that theemotional swells are being close
to bursting the banks.
What a day.
It's impossible to stop thinkingabout the Frenchman.
I do hope he makes it throughthe night.
I'll miss Big Reeve, albeit itis time, or should I say the
(15:03):
right time?
Between the frustration ofprison life and his missus
struggling with young children,the pressure and guilt was
getting to the big guy.
We've laughed like school boysand we've trained hard.
He's been one of my besttraining partners ever.
He was so competitive and me notat all.
(15:28):
We used to chat for hours,especially in the early months
when it's all raw, scary andconfusing, and I suppose even if
we never speak again, we'reBlood Brothers for life, such is
our experience together.
Reeve, he was like a bodyguard.
(15:50):
No one was storming our pad whenhe was around, and in many ways,
he was the cloak of protectionor the buffer I needed whilst
navigating the treachery fromthe Despicables.
He's going and I'm thrilled forhim, although I'm back in the
precarious situation of havingto choose the right pad mate.
(16:10):
Although I'm confident, but notcertain, that that will sort
itself out by the time we'reunlocked in the morning, and if
I'm right, the person I'mthinking of, well, he'll make an
approach before we leave forwork.
However, in the here and now,five minutes before lights out,
(16:33):
my head and emotions arehijacked by thoughts of the
Frenchmen.
Popular Podcasts
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!