Ep.04 | Jayson Spencer | Dhufish, Tackle Shop Wisdom & Finding Your Own Spots - Tall Tails Fishing Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
One, two, one, two, three, four.
Alright, everybody, welcomeback.
Thanks for tuning in to anotherepisode of the Tall Tales

(00:22):
Fishing Rodcast.
Today we are joined by a bit ofa young gun, lekker.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Yeah, definitely, a young gun Got a lot of knowledge
about fishing Makes me feel abit obsolete when I'm around him
, when I start talking to him.
To be honest, yeah, no, veryimpressive young man.
We had the good fortune offishing together actually
recently, um, but yeah, and Iwas very impressed with your
knowledge and, um, happy to haveyou on the happy to have you on

(00:52):
the rod cast mate, jay spencer,everybody oh, thanks for having
me.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
Um, yeah, no, really really chuffed to be here.
Um, I'd say like, yeah, it's abit of a weird one fishing with
your idol Footy player.
Yeah, I mean when I was growingup, when I first started
processing footy, I wore thenumber two on the back of my
jersey.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
How's that I'd save this bit of knowledge?

Speaker 3 (01:19):
So, you didn't know this before.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
Well, you're not known for your footy ability,
mate, so we've got something incommon there.
But you are known, I guess,amongst the uh wa tackle trade
because you worked at completeangler netherlands.
That's where I got to know you.
That's, you know, one of myfavorite tackle shops going
around um and uh.
We had a day out fishingtogether recently which was

(01:41):
pretty epic.
Just towards the end of thedemersal season, start of the
year, we went out together umjig for some jews.
We actually had a really goodday, like getting a bit of a
mixed bag there.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
Hey, we've got some species yeah, so, like I think
you mentioned, we went out offsavannies and, um, we went out
with the the idea of gettingsome demersals early and then
trying to mix up our bag limitand species and, yeah, moved on
to the inshore stuff and we hada wicked little session Good fun
we managed to get some herringand tailor and ended up getting

(02:15):
a few ockies out of the ockiepots up there as well.
That was a first for me.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
That was yeah weird.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
How good was that I could tell when it came to
getting the occies out of theway.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
What do you do Of all the sea creatures you pull out
of the ocean?
As a fisherman I'd say occieshave got to be one, that you've
got to have an element ofmongrel in you, you know what I
mean.
You've got to go hard at them.
You can't just be relaxed andbe gentle.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
I'm used to the cradle hold and the gentle nah
this is brute force.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
You're not catching ockies for catch and release, so
you've got to be rough withthem.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
It's a swift, like you said.
Straight to the point grab themby the head and get them out of
there.
Bit of salt in the pot and theycome crawling out at a rate of
knots and they're good fun,though, and good fun and you can
do a lot with them.
They're good bait, obviouslygood to eat as well.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
We had.
Well, so, yeah, I, uh it wasactually we had two boats out
that day, so we were fishingwith a uh, great mate of ours,
scotty watson, local up insavannies, and, um, while we
were doing that occy fishing, Ithink you guys were trying for
some squid, so you were on yourboat, I was with scotty and we'd
had a big day like this isgetting towards the end of the
arvo and I'm sort of sunbaking,almost having a quick bit of

(03:25):
shut eye on the front ofscotty's boat, and all I hear is
jace is on the casting deck ofyours with all these hockey
heads that we cut off peggingthem at me, trying to hit I was
quite disappointed with myeffort there are you a cricket
player too?

Speaker 3 (03:39):
oh yeah, I did play a bit of cricket back in, uh,
back in the school days, but youshould have an arm.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
You should have have hit me.
We weren't that far away.

Speaker 3 (03:45):
I loved it.
I haven't lost it, but I lostit.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
That would have been pretty funny.
But, mate, touching on the,we'll get back to that day at
Savandies because that was areally good day.
I want to delve a little bitdeeper into that.
We had a feed at the pub thenight before and you dropped
some absolute knowledge bonds onus that I think are going to be
of value to anyone that'slistening.
But going back to the shop, soI've touched on in the last few

(04:12):
episodes how important it is tosupport a local tackle shop.
I didn't know you prior towalking into Complete.
Got to know you obviouslythrough my great mate, anton
pope, who worked there as well.
But, um, all the boys atcomplete have been super helpful
, you being one of them.
Um, mate, how important was,you know, being part of that

(04:37):
tackle shop for your fishingcareer and what have you learned
through working at a tackleshop?
you know, you've obviously gotsome really good mentors there
as well, so talk to us a littlebit about you.
Know what you learn in a tackleshop working?

Speaker 3 (04:50):
there.
I'd say, first and foremost,with, with, complete is, that
had been my tackle store, stillis my tackle store since I was a
kid, since I started fishing.
Yeah, so you know, you gotbrian, you got kim stalwarts,
john stalwarts of the shop um,who I'd been coming in there
since I was a little rat, and Iguarantee you, you ask them, dan
Sim was working there back inthe day.

(05:10):
Tom Shuling, you ask them, I waspossibly the most annoying kid
because I would come in and I'dask so many questions, probably
the same questions day in, dayout, but that's how I kind of
learned and I wouldn't say fasttrack.
There's guys who have picked upcertain aspects of fishing much
quicker than I have.
So you were Rothy before Rothywas Rothy.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
I was worse.
Imagine what Rothy is.

Speaker 3 (05:34):
I was worse, like I was a shocker.
It would be like my grandpawould take me in.
He's like, oh, what do you wantto do after school?
He's like, oh, can I go intocomplete and just be incomplete
for an hour or two?
Yeah, you get lost in there,don't you.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
It's actually a dangerous place because you go
in there.
I might go in there trying to.
It's pretty close to the river.
I do a lot of river fishing forthe mullies obviously and I
might be short on a particularjighead that I need to spend in
there to say g'day to everybodyand grab what I need.
But two hours later I walk outand I've spent 500 bucks.

(06:09):
It's a dangerous place to be.

Speaker 3 (06:11):
There's a stupid amount of stuff in there and
it's actually a bit of a symptomof just how much trust and
family environment there is inthat store, in amongst the staff
as well, as we have really goodrelationships with our
customers and that's a real atthe time when I was working

(06:32):
there real pride um of the store, yeah um, but I even when it
comes to the sheer amount ofgear.
It's because there's that trustin in even the ordering like,
uh, brian will go to to finn,let's say finn's lambaste gun.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
He's a gun on everything, but particularly
with fishing talent, that boyyeah, yeah, yeah 100, so he he
gives you a little bit ofcontrol, the ordering.
You know if you guys wantsomething, he'll let you get it
in.

Speaker 3 (06:50):
Well, he'll say finn, you do the ordering.
Um, you want beach rods, you dothe ordering, finn.
Finn knows his gear inside out,so he's he's the one who takes
on that responsibility.
Um, when it comes to flyfishing, you john kimbo, uh,
popey, when he was in there,yeah, like all that stuff.
So you know really, um, youknow putting that trust on as

(07:10):
well, and and they've got tosell it as well right.
So if they're the ones that sell, there's plenty of stuff that
doesn't sell there.
There's plenty of punts thathave been taken, so go go
rummage to the bargain bins, butum, there's some absolute
bangers what I mean is if theyin the product.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
It's easy for them to sell if they've used it.

Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah, you don't want to sell shit that's just out of
shit.
You want to believe in whatyou're selling.
You don't want to send somebodyout the door with a product
that they just straight up don'tneed.
Money's tight these days for alot of people, but what I'm
alluding to is you guys havebeen a really important part of
my fishing journey.
Everybody that I've spoken toin there has been more than

(07:45):
helpful and that I guess overtime that I've become a familiar
face.
I chat to everybody and a bitmore trust is built and they
reveal a little bit moreinformation.
So I might be like oh, what doyou?
You know I'm going for thistoday.
What should I buy?
Or just try this little spot aswell.
Like this is what you shoulduse, but try this little spot.
There's a lot of warm waterhere or there's a lot of bait

(08:06):
coming around here.
So people like joff um, youknow poppy kim like what a what
a knowledge base that guy has.
All he does is work at the shopand go fishing.
But, mate, you were very, veryhelpful towards me, um, when I
first started coming in there.
So I just wanted to acknowledgethat, mate, and thank you for
for all your help no problem,but good to see the passion mate

(08:27):
.
Yeah, dude, I just froth and Iknow you do too, and I think
that's why we get along so well.
But, um, who is one personalitythat stands out in that shop
that had a real impact on sortof your fishing journey so far.

Speaker 3 (08:42):
It's been different ones at different stages.
I'd say Brian, the owner, yeah,legend, just an absolute legend
, just a wealth of informationfrom over his years of
experience in not only fishingbut the tackle industry.
And like, yeah, if I saidanything, I'd be selling him

(09:03):
short.
Yeah, like he just goes aboveand beyond.
Like he'll invite you onfishing trips.
Invite you, if I said anything,I'd be selling him short.
Yeah, like he just goes aboveand beyond.
Like he'll invite you onfishing trips, invite you out on
the boat.
Will not accept a cent of fuel,money or anything like that.
Like he's just, he's like yourmentor, your boss, but also your
mate at the same time.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (09:19):
And like he's been that consistent one throughout.
But I can say Kimbo is anotherone, so I know any bit of info I
get out of Kimbo.
He's a bit of a closed book attimes.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
He is.
He holds his cards close to hischest, doesn't he Any?

Speaker 3 (09:33):
chance.
But yeah, any bit of info youget out of him is worth.
You know it's gospel.
Yeah, joffa's another one sincehe started there.
Yeah, before he started there,um, yeah, before he started
there he had a bit of a like.

Speaker 1 (09:47):
Obviously it was a reputation as this really really
good fish shows being tackleindustry involvement from back
in the day.
He was involved with tackleworld up in Mindari, wasn't he?

Speaker 3 (09:54):
Yeah, I believe he managed it at that time.
Yeah, yeah, and, um, yeah, this.
So I was like, yeah, trying topick his brains always try and
pick the brains of good fishers,because that's how you it's a
little hack to get you forward,I guess.
But yeah, he's been another onewhere what he's offered is yeah
, it's been fantastic in all thecases.

(10:15):
Yeah, how long did you workthere for?
It was around three years, sotime flew.
I was at uni at the same time,so I was just working casual.
Yeah, it was really close tohome as well, five minutes from
home, so it was just bouncebetween there, uni and going out
fishing on the boat.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
So for me I want to talk about your younger years as
well.
You mentioned going intoComplete and all that sort of
stuff.
How did your real passion forfishing kick off?

Speaker 3 (10:43):
It was a family trip to Kalbarri, I think in 2008.
So, I would have been maybe sixor seven at the time.
Yep, and Dad just took us downto I can't even remember if it's
still there, it's like an oldboat ramp thing near the mouth
and caught a few of those realcacataila, like the tiny, tiny

(11:04):
ones you get in the river theresometimes, and a Moses perch and
a whiting.
And the whiting was my firstfish and I was like I don't know
why it just clicked with melike I really enjoyed it.
And so he started taking usevery day of that holiday.
You know we'd be catching tinybrim, little estuary cod and
things from the shore and I justloved it.
And then when we got back I waslike, hey, dad, can we go
fishing like every weekend?

(11:25):
And so he likes fishing.
He's not obviously as into it asme and didn't have that same
starting point when it comes toexperience.
So he's one of those justcasual, casual fishers.
So when we started going outmore regularly he wouldn't
always put me on the fish kindof thing.
Particularly when you'restarting off, putting kids on

(11:47):
fish is A1.
It needs to be done, otherwisethey can lose the passion.
Yeah, but no, I kept wanting togo, kept going Through school.
It was a bit hit and miss, likesport commitments through
school, like I was playing footy, I was playing touch rugby, I
was playing cricket duringsummer summer and cricket, you
know, takes a stack of time.

(12:08):
So there wasn't a lot of timefor fishing.
I was trying to do it when Icould.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
Just get that microphone a little bit close to
your face there, bro like thatperfect, I want to hear what
you've got to say.

Speaker 3 (12:17):
Yeah, so no, like playing sport through school and
stuff like that, so it takes alot of time, yeah, and then the
school itself.
So it's not like you got accessto anything midweek.
You got to go home and do yourhomework and all that.
So fishing was few and farbetween then.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
That takes a long time in itself too right
Fishing's, oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:35):
Yeah, it's an investment in more ways than one
.
But in about I don't know, itwould have been year eight, year
nine.
I was like, all right, I'mactually going to take this
seriously.
So I cut back on the sport alittle bit, went a little more
selective, so I dropped footy.

(12:55):
Yeah, um, I dropped touch for alittle bit.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
Yeah, um kept cricket during summer but went no.

Speaker 3 (12:57):
Winter's my fishing time, yeah, yeah winter's my
fishing time so I was like youknow, I was at that point.
I was like, okay, I'm gonnastart taking this seriously, I'm
gonna start from square one,yeah, and we'll build up from
here.
So I was like, okay, square one, what's easily accessible to me
that I can go and just go cutmy teeth on, and brim was the
answer.
But within that species, you'vegot a number of different

(13:19):
challenges and and sets ofobjectives, I guess.
So the first thing was I want a40-centimeter brim out of the
swan.
How long did that take you?

Speaker 1 (13:27):
A couple months, shit , that's a pretty good going.

Speaker 3 (13:30):
I was fishing bait at this point.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
So I was working.

Speaker 3 (13:33):
There was that Steve Correa video with the mussels
floating around at that point intime.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
Oh, the old fishing WA.

Speaker 3 (13:39):
Yeah, so I was treating that as gospel and
using the exact same approach atcertain areas, and I found that
during winter there's noblowies in the swan sometimes,
particularly when you have goodflush.
So I was fishing a lot of areasthat in summer you wouldn't
touch with bait because it wouldget destroyed and crushing the
muscles and using the actualinsides.
And I used to go down to thefloating pontoons and physically

(14:00):
get down on my haunches andthrow the bait underneath and
then free spool and at theparticular spot I was fishing,
there was this one day where Iwent down there.
It was stormy, it was blowingnortherly, it was disgusting,
there was no one anywhere nearme and I had the hottest session
on bait brim at one of the mostpopular spots I probably won't

(14:20):
name, drop it because it'll getdestroyed.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
No, don't.

Speaker 3 (14:30):
Well, this is going to millions of people.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
You don't want anyone , uh but it's still got me like
first.
40 centimeter brim is still mypb today.
It is it's 46.

Speaker 3 (14:34):
How old do you reckon you were?
Um 15?
Yeah, wicked, but it was, yeah,a couple months into trying.
I think it was in september, sotowards that end of that winter
period.
But it was just a disgustingday, not the day you'd think to
go fishing, and it was.
I think I caught three 40s forthat day and a number of fish
into the high 30s, wicked.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
Unreal.
So you were just that keen, youwere out there, yeah every
weekend.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
What did you move on to?
What was the next evolution?

Speaker 3 (14:55):
Next one was 40 centimeter brim on lure.
Yep, and also flatties camealong that summer centimeter
flatty on lure.
Um, that one was not toodifficult.
Um, actually got that some ofmy pb, which 59 yep.
Um, so yeah, that one was wasan easy one and then it was.
It was kind of just, oh, nowI've got these two options, I
can really hone in on them a bit.

(15:16):
So the brim became a big thingfor me.
I'd like five years ago or so Iwas averaging something like
300 or 400 or more brim a summer.
I would just go out three timesa week and I'd get 30 fish a
session.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
That's a lot of brim, and so I just work on the
numbers.
It's a lifetime for people.

Speaker 3 (15:33):
Because you're always chasing that 40 or that bigger
fish and things happen as wellwhen you're chasing them.
You catch soapy mulloway, youcatch big flatties.
You hook giant herring easyhook giant herring.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
Yeah, my better giant herring spots my really quiet
ones are all the ones that Ifound whilst brim fishing.
Yeah, mate, you've given me alot of info over over our time
knowing each other, but the ghis, uh, something that you've
never really revealed anythingto me.
So I might even get a bottle.
I know what happens when peoplefind out, and even if I want to
see someone so desperatelycatch one, yeah, even if they're
your mate, it's not worth it.

Speaker 3 (16:04):
It's too tough.
I've seen spots get justhammered to death, Like back in
the day.
Claremont used to be thewell-known one for giants At
Caracalla Bank there or alongthe shoreline, just in the bay
along where Mrs Herbert's Parkis.

Speaker 1 (16:16):
Okay, so land-based.

Speaker 3 (16:17):
Yeah, land-based and it used to get flogged and the
giants quick, smart, so they'rereally bad with fishing pressure
.
Even some of my quiet spots ifI hammer them too hard, the fish
disappear right.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
So you consciously are thinking I've fished this
myself too many times, so you'removing around 100.
Yeah, so same thing goes forjewies as well as in what
mullies?

Speaker 3 (16:37):
or?

Speaker 1 (16:38):
or jewish, oh yeah, yeah, you won't hear me calling
them all the way to me spots isone of the.

Speaker 2 (16:42):
It's one of the great rewards in fishing as well If
you know that you've got a spotthat is going to hold fish and
you can leave it as your backupoption so you get the chance to
explore.
And then it's like all right,if I'm desperate for a fish, I
know I can go here because I'veleft them on the chew.
There's nothing better thanhaving that up your sleeve.
I don't think.

Speaker 3 (17:00):
Yeah, and that's something that I worked hard on
with my demersal stuff.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
It and that's something that I worked hard on
with my demersal stuff.
So, like you know, it'sactually a great segue.
Mate, I've got this as a dotpoint here because you have
quite a unique approach forfinding Deweys.
You talk us through that.
So, like, go back to your firstDewey.
I want to know about that.
And then I want to know aboutyour recent stuff with dropping
a GoPro down onto there.
So let's go to Deweys.
What's your biggest Dewey?
First of all, biggest.

Speaker 3 (17:27):
Dewey's meter two or meter three, so it was about 18
kilos.
That was my first time everchasing Dewey's.
That was my second ever Dewey.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
No way.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
I've got you on a filthy bananary, yellowy, pink,
soft plastics.

Speaker 3 (17:46):
Jerk shads on an elevator head, dropped it down
and hooked up instantly.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
I've got GoPro footage of it somewhere, because
I had a little GoPro rocking atthe time.
You have to flick that to me.

Speaker 3 (17:49):
It's a little me sounding like a squeaker and
groaning and moaning a bit.
But that was a good fish, thatone.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
Yeah nice, 18 kilos is a massive Jewie.
That's a big fish.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
My PB that I got recently 96 centimetres, that
was 14 kilos.
Four kilos when we're talkingfishes, you know that's quite a
bit of weight for how much thatfish has grown lengthwise.
They seem to just get thickerand more of a tank.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
The head's massive as well, isn't it?
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (18:18):
How old is a fish like that?
It's funny.
You can get real variabilitybetween fish of the same age.
So let's say you've got a 12kilo Dewey that fish.
Let's say that's probably 90 inthe 90s somewhere.
That fish could be anywherefrom maybe 10 years old at the

(18:40):
youngest to maximum age 40.
So particularly if it's afemale, females 40.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
Yeah but there's 30-year age gap there.

Speaker 3 (18:51):
And females don't grow as large as the males do
consistently.
So quite often you'll getfemales in that 90-centimetre
range that are towards the endof their lives really, and
they're the ones that you wantin the population because
they're the ones doing the bulkof that breeding.
Yeah right, and it's a shame tosee when those bigger fish get

(19:14):
selected out of a population youknow.
Obviously the males, becausethey grow to that larger size,
seem to be selected againstthere, but by the same token
you're selecting against thoselarger females.
So it's almost just a shame tosee those big females get taken
out, like before I found thisout I'd, but it's not like
you're not going to retain afish out of 30 meters, but

(19:35):
fishing down at augusta I got ameter one, uh, female dewey,
which is one like you.
Look on um, on facebook orwhatever.
you don't see many big femalejuries over a metre and this one
was probably around that16-kilo mark.
And I look back now and Icringe at the fact that I
retained that fish, even thoughthat's what you do anyway.

Speaker 1 (19:56):
It's not going to go back any time, but you've learnt
that with.
Obviously we haven't touched onit yet, but you have a degree
in marine biology, is thatcorrect?
It's actually a degree infinance with a major in marine
biology is that correct?

Speaker 3 (20:08):
yeah, it's actually a degree in finance with a major
in marine biology.
So I took a hack and wentthrough the bachelor of commerce
and and just decided to do asecond major in marine bio.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
So we'll touch on that in a bit because I want to
get back to the dewey.
So your biggest dewey you'veticked that off.
Um, your approach to findingdeweys is quite unique.
I think you've done a video onit.
When you were working atComplete, you were running their
YouTube channel for them, butyou were dropping a GoPro around
, so you were putting aroundlooking for these spots in
isolated areas, and then youwould find a lump or find an

(20:39):
area that looked fruitful whatyou think would hold fish and
then you'd drop a GoPro down.
The footage that you weregetting was pretty sick.
So what was tell us about that?

Speaker 3 (20:48):
so I think I started doing it um in in line with
doing the complete stuff, likeat the same time as like
typically, if I wanted jewies inthe past I'd go to savannies
because that was my comfort area, careful careful, that was me.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, wedge, wedge.

Speaker 3 (21:12):
But that was why I was confident in getting good
fish there and not struggling toget a feed and having a good
day out.
So it's a trip I'll still do,but I don't rely on it to the
same capacity that I used to,and it's all as a result of just
going, and Joffa put me ontomore or less the kind of fishing
that I currently do, which isthat northern suburbs kind of

(21:35):
stuff, yeah, fishing relativelyfeatureless terrain, yeah, and
the trouble with that is it'shard to find spots.
But when you find them and youfind enough of them you can farm
it and get a relatively easyfeed with minimal effort, which
is what my goal was.
So it took the better part oftwo years of camera dropping so

(21:57):
I would go out and drop GoProson whatever I'd see in my
sounder.
It could be absolute rubbish.
Like half the time when I wasstarting I was dropping it on
sand and going, oh, there's somesandies there, or oh, there's
floating seaweed on the bottomand that's what I'm picking up,
or you know, this is justnothing.
And then you know it'd just beweird.

(22:17):
You get a real sense forreading your sounder at the same
time, but also building up abank of spots.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
Yeah, so that's like for a lot of people like I can
speak from experience here,right, so I've only bought my
boat in the last.
I think it's three years nowcoming on three years.
When you buy a sounder, you canread the instruction manual,
you can look at some YouTubevideos or whatever.
But it's quite an art to pickup and a skill to pick up and
then be able to know what you'relooking at on the bottom.

(22:44):
There's a few people that havesaid use those glass bottom
buckets and look down.
So look at what your sound isshowing, look in that bucket and
then you can know what'sunderneath you.
But obviously in that depth youknow where you're fishing for
jewies anywhere from sort ofmid-20s up to anything deeper
it's.
You can't see the bottom, sothat's not a way to it.
So what you've done is you'verigged up a GoPro with a big old

(23:06):
snapper lead on it right andyou're dropping it to the bottom
and you're reviewing thatfootage when you bring it up.

Speaker 3 (23:12):
Yeah, yeah, like it's a Hero 9.
So this is one of the onesBrian's ones from Complete that
he got so we could do thefilming for the store.
But yeah, it was one of thoseones where you kind of just pick
up and look at the back screenand go, oh, there's something
there, there's nothing there.
You can tell the terrain typeand see if you're on the mark,

(23:34):
because there's a couple ofsmall little subtle things you
can pick up on the sounder whenyou're scanning that featureless
terrain.
That can be the differencebetween that is dead sand or
that is a ledge with rock bottomOn some sounders.
It's very hard to separate thetwo.
So it did take a lot of trialand error to start.
But then when I started seeingthe right kind of ground and I
started seeing deweys and Istarted seeing baldios, like

(23:56):
okay, we're, we're winning a bithere.
And then, like often I would goout during you know, terrible
weather on just solo on my boat,or I'd go out without even
dropping a line and I would goand drop cameras.
Yeah, just build up a bank ofspots, because I like, uh, this
will pay off in the future, likeI want to be out there grinding
.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
You're doing the prep work yeah, so I'm taking a
little bit more seriously and,yeah, I'm taking a different
approach one thing with thecameras.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
I remember when you, when we spoke about it before,
was I asked you how you stopthem spinning and you actually
said I don't?

Speaker 3 (24:28):
Yeah, as much as for presentation.
If I go and show people, it'shard to go.
Oh, look at this cool school ofDewey's that I filmed when I
dropped my camera.
The way it pivots gives you agood 360 at times of your
surroundings, and the kind ofthings I'm looking for are tiny,
tiny ledges and holes.

(24:49):
Like you know, you hear peopletalking about your Swiss cheese
style bottom when you'redrifting on that hard flat stuff
.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
A wonky hole.
Is that what they call themsometimes?

Speaker 3 (24:58):
Yeah, I think it's a slightly different thing, but
these are smaller than thoseGotcha Like these are.
So, like you talk about Swisscheese bottom, that kind of up
and down flat stuff.
Um, I was like, oh well, what'sso special about that?
You're catching ballies and bigdeweys off it and you know you
don't have to mark fish and andyou can drift through and catch
them.
And what I found through thatis there are small bits of

(25:21):
ground on there that the fishwill hold on.
You're just not picking it upyeah, gotcha and so people do
these big long drifts throughgood areas that have multiple
little ledges or or holes inthem, and they pick up fish, but
they wouldn't necessarily go.
At what point of my drift did Ipick up fish?
So, trial and error, I foundout that dewey's love hanging on
a ledge.
You often won't pick it upbecause when they're hanging on

(25:44):
the and we're talking 20centimeter ledges here like tiny
.

Speaker 1 (25:47):
So it's not.
A ledge is probably the wrongword for it.
Enough to fit a cray.

Speaker 3 (25:51):
Enough to fit a cray is enough to hold deweys, and
actually it's the bullseyes thatyou look for.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
If I see bullseyes, I actually, even if I don't see a
diamonds, yeah, they'll feed onthem but it's just an indicator
.

Speaker 3 (26:07):
Like they live in caves, gotcha.
So if there is a ledge nearby,you will see bullseyes, or
you'll never see bullseyes awayfrom a ledge, really, yeah, so
it's the same habitat type thatyou're looking for, and bullies
by extension.
As much as they'll cruise outin the open, they'll almost
always be something in thevicinity that they'll be on, and
it doesn't have to be much.

(26:28):
So a lot of my sounding andcamera drops revolve around
bullseyes and small ledges.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
Yeah, that's sick.
That's a little golden nuggetthere.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
Yeah, while we're on demersals as well.
I want to talk a little bitabout what you've got on your
shirt.
So you've got on your shirt.
So you've got the JewfishForever shirt.
There's been a lot of evolutionin regards to the culture
around fishing for demersalsover the past few years,
specifically the past couple ofyears.

(26:56):
Talk to us a little bit aboutthat.

Speaker 3 (26:59):
Yeah.
So Jewfish Forever is somethingthat me personally, I've been
lucky enough to be involved with, not even since the outset, but
I know you, mark, as well havehad a bit of involvement with it
across its entire history,apart from when it, I think,
started through Wreckfish Westthree or four years ago or
however long ago it was whenthat petition came through Yep.

(27:20):
But essentially it's promotinggood ideas and sharing
information amongst wreckedfishers about what is the right
thing to do with our demersalfish, with the goal of.
You know, we are putting thefish first.
These are our fish as much asthe government manages them on
our behalf.
You know we as wrecked fishersalso have a role to play and we

(27:42):
also have choices we can makewhich can help them go in the
right direction.
I think there's a there's a bitof short-sightedness when it
comes to demersal fishing at themoment, um, and people quite
quickly forget what it was likeby all reports back in the 70s
and 80s, when jewfishpopulations were healthy.
Sure, they got hammered, butwhat's to say, we can't have

(28:03):
that again and, with appropriatemanagement measures in place,
to see fantastic fishingexperiences, because that's what
it's about.
It's as much about the fish asit is the fishes.
But you need the right mix forthat to happen, and it's a bit
of a dream at this stage, and Ithink Jewfish River is one
mechanism to get it there.

(28:23):
Yeah, fishers, wreck fishers.
Even I'd extend it out tocharter and commercial guys
making the right choices andgetting the fish back on track.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
I think you nailed it and you mentioned.
I think it's a good movement, Ithink the more that people can
sort of understand what it isand hopefully get out there and
do the best practice and treatthe fish for what they are.
They're not a sport fish.
Yeah, they're good to be ableto go and get a feed, but we
want that fishery to reallyrecover and hopefully our kids

(28:55):
and their kids can all enjoy itas well, because it is the
iconic WA species, wouldn't?

Speaker 1 (28:59):
you say Ross?
Oh, absolutely, mate, it'sendemic.
There's nowhere else in theworld where you can catch that
fish.
Am I wrong?
No, that's endemic.

Speaker 3 (29:06):
So broadly esperance through to about shark bay, yeah
, where you get them, and youlook at that boomerang stripe
through the eye and it's just.
Everyone knows what that is inwa.
Yeah, well, we were actuallytalking about.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
You know, when we were developing our logo for the
podcast, like how can we makeit?
We want to interview peoplefrom or not interview, but talk
to people.
Talk to people all aroundAustralia and eventually the
world about fishing.
But we're pretty proud of wherewe're from, the fishing we were
talking the other day like wekind of feel like WA is one of
the best places in the world tobe a fisherman.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
Underrated as anything.
Hey, how good is it.

Speaker 1 (29:39):
We want to kind of show off that we're from WA and
the Jewish stripe the boomerangyou actually gave me that idea
and the Jewy stripe theboomerang you actually gave me
that idea was to incorporatethat in our logo.
We went in a differentdirection, but I fully get what
you're saying.
The colouring of those fish,the stripe through the eye, the
big convex tail, is unmissable.
You can't mistake it foranything else.

Speaker 3 (29:59):
The other thing I'd say about Jewfish Forever is
it's about bringing everyone onboard who wants that better
future for their demersalfishing.
And in saying that, it's notabout going and calling out
people for doing the wrong thingnecessarily.
It's about everyone going onthe same learning journey.
So my learning journey has beensteep because I've been

(30:20):
involved with it from theinternals, from the middle.
So a lot of the scienceinformation I'm learning a lot
of the best practice.
I'm learning it step by stepalong the way as the program
evolves.
But for the average person outthere there'll be ingrained
habits, I can say for myself.
Still, it is tempting to go andfish for demersals when it's

(30:43):
open, as my protocol, as mynormal thing to do, because I
love doing it.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
It's pretty exciting man it's exciting.

Speaker 3 (30:50):
Jigging is cool, but I need to wrap myself in the
knuckles, and that's my nextstep in this journey.
Is I need to wrap myself in theknuckles going?
I need to specialize in someother areas.

Speaker 2 (31:00):
Yeah, that is a great point, because part of that is
promoting other fisheries aswell, and at the moment,
particularly in the metro area,there is lots of stuff going on.
I know there's been a lot morefads and stuff put in in recent
years as well.
So what is a few of thedifferent species that you have

(31:20):
been targeting and how have youbeen going with those?

Speaker 3 (31:24):
So I've been looking at spanny max.
Yep, um, so they're.
They're one that I haven'ttouched like they used to be my
curse fish, like for about fouryears.
I couldn't get one, I'd done xmouth, I'd done the montes twice
I'd done them and I couldn'tget them.

Speaker 1 (31:38):
They would all get sharked or I would get bitten
off or like even trolling behindthe reef at xia.

Speaker 3 (31:45):
I wouldn't even hook one.
I'd catch coros and GTs and Iwouldn't catch a mackie.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
Tough one Probably too shallow, Poor thing yeah but
it was just my demon fish.

Speaker 3 (31:54):
So I kind of got rid of that from.
I did one Mackle Islands tripand stick baited without wire
and didn't lose a single fish.
So I was like cool, done, fixed.
But a Metro one would bespecial for me as well, Like
I've got a really soft spot forKingfish as well.
They're one I want to put moretime into.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
They're next on my list of mastery.
Me too, man.

Speaker 3 (32:17):
Because they're the full package.
Hey, they look sick.
They are so strong, they fightdirty, so they make it hard for
you.
And they taste fantastic too.

Speaker 1 (32:26):
Yeah, we had a sick session on them a couple of
weeks ago out at Roto likenothing big.

Speaker 3 (32:30):
They don't need to be big to give you a run around.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
I reckon a kingy of the same size would pull a Sambo
backwards.

Speaker 3 (32:38):
Oh yeah, and I love targeting Sambos too.
That was another symptom ofdoing that stuff for dewey's is
I found some cracking reliablesambo spots and had a session
out with uh, with anton uh, andgot him.
That was on the youtube channel.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
Yeah, on the fly.

Speaker 3 (32:52):
Yeah, go and check that out on fly um like we're
trying some different things anddropping flies down with
release weights and jigging therelease weight off and then
stripping the fly up through thesambos oh yeah, so youtube
panel.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
So this is Complete Angler.

Speaker 1 (33:05):
Nedlands on YouTube.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
I don't think they've been putting videos out since
you left, man, it is a hard job,so I don't blame them.

Speaker 1 (33:13):
But go back and watch that YouTube channel, guys, if
you haven't seen it already,because Jase and everybody else
that worked at Complete at thetime and maybe still works there
were really're really droppingsome knowledge bombs.

Speaker 3 (33:25):
I know that that helped me out a lot, um, when I
was first getting into it forsure, so definitely worth
checking it out well, that wasthe idea is is giving back to
the customers a bit and goinglike as much as when a customer
comes in we'll have an hour-longconversation about at whatever
they want.
Like you know, it'll go to andfro you know how normally like
fishing conversations go.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it'll be like that, but you know
you're'll go to and fro.

Speaker 3 (33:45):
You know how normally like fishing conversations go
yeah, it'll be like that, butyou know you're giving them
advice along the way and youwant to see them catch fish
because you want them to go back, come back to you and go this
is what you told me to do, I didit, or I tried this new thing
which you know, and I caughtthis.
And then you go that is sick,Like it gives you that little
buzz, yeah, and that's anotherreason you do it and you gee

(34:05):
other people up who are alsoexcited about fishing.
So it's that provision ofinformation through another
means they can kind of referback to if they need.
But it was also a smartmarketing ploy and I give credit
to Tackle West and they stillare leading that front
absolutely Like.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
Their channel is fantastic and was a great
template to work on.
He does a wicked job he doesyeah, on his youtube channel.
Yeah, what have you beentargeting?

Speaker 2 (34:30):
recently.
I know that you you went outfor the maccies um and you did
come close or not.
What have you been targeting?
How's your luck been sorry withthe?
With the spanish mackerel,because I know I spoke to you
the other day after you'd beenout there trawling at 4.30am and
you showed me a photo.
That was the day we were outthere.
It was a bit of a heartbreak.

Speaker 3 (34:48):
Yeah, it was the old gar snippy in half.
I mean, could well have notbeen a Mackie.
I wasn't paying attentionreally.
I was solo trying to manage tworods and weed on my swimming
gars and all kinds of thingsgoing on going really close to
the back of the reef and allkinds of things.
So I missed the bite, went tocheck the bait and went, oh,
it's in half.
So it could have been a tailor,could have been a school mac,

(35:09):
could have been a spanish, youdon't really know.
But um, yeah, a bit annoying.
I'd spent a couple of hours sofar doing it like a couple of
sessions, so it's one of thosethings that I'm gonna have to go
on away with.
My first one, molly, was thesame.
110 hours went into that fishof fishing.
So yeah, it's one of those fishyou know are put on a pedestal
for a reason.
It's because they're not easyto catch.

(35:30):
On the other front I've beendoing a bit of did a sand
whiting comp yesterday throughthe Hillary's Yacht Club.
Oh, sick.
And so there's this kid that Iused to take fishing a lot.
I don't so much now.
I work full time, but um, I gotthe opportunity to take him out
.
He's a member of the club, um,and he's uh, he must be like 11

(35:52):
or 12.
Now, what's his name?

Speaker 1 (35:53):
Jackson Jackson shout out jackson.
Yeah, shout out to jackson.

Speaker 3 (35:57):
He's an absolute gun um so I think there were a few
categories for like heaviestwhiting, and there's sand
whiting only.
So no, king george um, heaviestwhiting um, heaviest bag of 10
whiting and heaviest juniorwhiting.
Yep, um, and I think for mostof it we were leading heaviest
whiting, heaviest junior whitingand heaviest bag of 10.

(36:19):
We ended up taking out heaviestbag of 10 and heaviest junior,
but you could only win one majorprize.
So fair enough, that junior onewent to another junior who
missed out on our one by about10 grams anyway.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
So credit to them.
You need a pretty accurate setof scales.
Eh yeah, To the decimal.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
I've emceed the other fishing comp that the Hillary's
Yacht Club do every year andmate I've been impressed by the
size of some of the flatheadthat have been weighed in oh the
blue spot, Mate.
They are massive.
Did you get them?

Speaker 3 (36:50):
out whiting.
I reckon I hooked one yesterdaytoo.
Yeah, and there must have beensome wind knot that had pulled
tight in my braid or somethingbecause it snapped at the rod.

Speaker 1 (36:59):
And I was like I knew what it was too yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:02):
It was doing those slow pulsey runs with big head
shakes and I was like, oh, thisis a big fight Because Josh got
a really big one.
When I took him out wildingfishing it would have been the
high 70s and I was like, oh,these things exist out here.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
Yeah, did you happen to watch Tackle West's recent
King George video where PaulWilley from I know where they're
?

Speaker 3 (37:20):
fishing too, and that's that broader areas where
Josh got his, and I've seen himbefore as well yeah, that thing
was a proper crocodile of aflatty like huge.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
They were losing their shit when they got it on
the boat.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
I would be too, and I was when Josh got his.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
Good on the chewed too, flatties, really good we
got a bari out of Trigg one ofthose ones you get in the swan.

Speaker 3 (37:42):
They don't usually leave the swan, but this one was
well out of its range in a sandhole off Trigg.

Speaker 2 (37:48):
Well, there's some weird things happening.
We were talking about thatcobia that got caught, yeah, in.

Speaker 3 (37:53):
Sam's 79 kilo cobia, which is I'd give it 80 because
it was bled before.
It was was it Well, I mean,some blood would have been lost.
You're talking about moistureloss as well.
I'd say when it was landed,that would have been 80 kilos,
79.6 kilo.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
it weighed in at, so yeah, 80 kilo.

Speaker 1 (38:09):
But smashed the record by 18 kilo.

Speaker 3 (38:12):
Oh yeah, Pending record.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
I think they need to confirm everything's still above
board.

Speaker 3 (38:17):
We know that's a bigger fish, we'll call that for
the biggest cove just aboutever seen.
And that is a hell of a fishand to be caught in Perth so far
away from its traditional range.

Speaker 1 (38:29):
That is so cool.

Speaker 3 (38:30):
You get the odd one venture down here with the
sharks that come down.

Speaker 1 (38:33):
But usually they're small.
It's the marine heat wave,isn't it?
It's going to bring some thatwe're having at the moment.
It's going to bring some thatwe're having at the moment.
It's going to bring some fishdown.
Like did you?
I don't know if you guys watchsalt fix on youtube he had a
whale shark off two rocks.
Come and check out his prop onhis boat only a few weeks ago,
yeah, a massive whale shark comeup to his boat.

Speaker 3 (38:51):
I'd say yeah marine heat waves, kind of just when it
reaches a point right where wego.
Okay, this is really hot, butit can be just below that.
And the last kind of I thinkfive years we've had a few La
Nina years, which, for those whodon't know, is pretty much when
you get a strong drive of theLuhan current as a result of
some external factors out in thePacific.

(39:12):
But pretty much it brings a lotof warm water down the coast
and this has been happeningconsistently for the last five
or so years, hence why wehaven't had much of a salmon run
over that time.
But it's brought with it a lotof warm water fish and a lot of
those have remained down, likegiant herring I'm hearing from
Bremer, you know a lot of thesefish we've got.
I've seen rankin being filmedfrom Augusta, saddle tail from

(39:36):
the capes, like coral trout offRoto not things that are
absolutely unheard of, but thesesmall things are becoming more
common and I think it's thatconsistency year in year out of
a strong luin push.
Having a marine heat wave, whichwe're currently in at the
moment, is just an exacerbatedpush of that.
It's just one year out of therest that is particularly hot

(39:57):
and prolonged and obviouslythings like that cove um.
What are the other effects like, for example, the sand whiting,
usually really really easy tofind a patch of southern schools
, really hard really really hard.
The other yeah, like the wholecomp was a bit of a struggle.
Like we only found it because,um, I tried so many spots.
We found a patch of them, but agood half of them were western

(40:17):
school whiting and I'd say whenyou go out doing that, most of
what you catch is Southerns.
Yeah right, those Westerns areslightly more Northern
distribution, so they'reprobably being favoured by that
warm water.
That's just me hazarding aguess, but there's all kinds of
things.
There goes the sign.
That's all right, leave it downthere.
All good, elbow, just needed abit of room.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
That's all right, mate.

Speaker 3 (40:38):
But yeah, I'd say there's all kinds of things
happening with this marine heatwave, both good and bad.
I'd say yeah the bad.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
What are the bad?
Last it was over a decade agonow.
The abalone was like the seasonwas closed from Moore River
north.

Speaker 3 (40:55):
Yeah, like it killed a stack of abalone.
I wouldn't be able to give afigure, but I think it was
northwards of 90% of abalonenorth of Perth.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
That sounds familiar to me.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
I think I've seen that figure.
Is there a concern thatsomething like that may happen
again?

Speaker 3 (41:07):
It's hard to say, like it's early days, we're
still in the marine heat wave,but there was a fish kill up in
the Pilbara which that was bigtoo.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
Yeah, that was thousands, it was quite large.

Speaker 3 (41:19):
I think it was just on a remote section of coast so
it might not have got a lot ofcoverage, but, um, it was fairly
extensive and there's a lot ofyour reef dwelling species, so
like your coral trouts and stufflike that, which isn't great to
see um.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
So any fish life is more important than the other,
but like, obviously they'rethey're pretty pretty high value
, yeah, yeah rec that's the wordI was looking for.

Speaker 3 (41:39):
So, yeah, it's pretty heartbreaking to see that, but
I guess that's the firstsymptoms of it.
Hopefully, fingers crossed, itdoesn't happen like it did last
time 2010-11, I think it wasyeah, but we'll just wait and
see.
As much as there's negativeeffects for things that can't
move, the things that can insome, the things that can in
some instances do benefit.

(42:00):
So obviously we get a push ofpelagics down in Perth.
That, cobia, I think, is one ofthose.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
Well, scotty Coghlan reckons there was reported
sighting of sailfish not far offNorth Mole as well.
Yeah, how mental is that?

Speaker 3 (42:13):
That is crazy, and it doesn't surprise me the amount
of scalies hanging around there,but also the?
Um.
The other thing is um.
Even fish that don't move somuch, say your jewfish, can
experience really goodrecruitment years um to
different sections of the coastwhen the luwin carries their
offspring down there so a lot ofthe fish that you're seeing
that there's a bit of a bit ofan observation the last 10 years

(42:34):
that, oh, there's these jewiespopping up on the south coast
like al Albany way, andtypically that hadn't been a
common thing or an overly commonthing.
Yeah, so a lot of that has beenattributed to that push in
2010-11 is a lot of the younglarval Jewfish getting pushed
around the corner and settlingon the south coast.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
This comes back to managing the fishery.
You know, each individualtaking a personal responsibility
to not flog it, because the keyhere is it comes down to that
particular year, and the wordthat you've actually explained
to me over the last couple ofyears and not years, sorry, the
last couple of weeks isrecruitment and how important
that is for future fish stocks.

(43:12):
So let's say, for example I'lllet you elaborate more on it if
people go and give these, thesedeweys, a flogging now, they're
not going to be there for a goodamount of time because the
recruitment year might not behow it was on that particular
year that the luin has beenpumping.
Is that correct?

Speaker 3 (43:28):
Yeah, it changes species to species so it varies
so much with the differentreproductive strategies that
they have.
And I'll say right now I'm nota fisheries scientist, I have a
background in marine biology butI'm a fisheries manager at the
moment.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
Yeah, we haven't mentioned that yet.
So Jase actually has a positionfor his nine to five.
He works with fisheries prettyclosely.
You've clearly taken yourpassion for fishing and you're
still a fisherman into fisheries, so just thought I'd mention
that yeah, yeah, so it's.

Speaker 3 (44:01):
It's, yeah, been a logical progression of of
fishing and wanting to stayinvolved in fishing and and a
development of career throughthat.
So, but it's, I've very much gotmy heart in the game in this
one um, but it's, it's.
The more I've been involved,the more I learn.
And, um, I don't want I'llprobably get some things wrong
if I try and describe in toomuch detail this whole

(44:23):
recruitment side of things.
But let's take Snapper for anexample.
I think a lot of people havebeen commenting on an abundance
of Snapper, and particularly upin the Gascoyne.
But if you look, even down inthe West Coast, here we had a
pretty good year last summer.
Uh, last winter, sorry for forland-based pinkies.
Um, there are a lot of fishcaught in that 60 to 70

(44:45):
centimeter.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
Yeah, man Cracking year.
Yeah, Not a lot of mates thatdid pretty well.

Speaker 3 (44:48):
I'd say that 60 to 70 centimeter bracket was a lot of
the same year class of fishfrom a good recruitment year.
So a year when, um, whenspawning was actually paid off
well for snapper.
Snapper tend to aggregate inkey areas is particularly in the
west coast.
So you got coburn sound there,warm bro sound to spawn, so form
large numbers.
They'll do that mass spawningevent.

(45:10):
If conditions are good andthere's good survival of the
larvae, then great.
They'll have a bumperrecruitment of those fish.
If they put all their eggs inone basket like they do that and
you have a bad year game overlike that terrible recruitment
year.
So you get this variability andyou get pulses in the population
coming through and it gives theimpression of a healthy stock.

(45:32):
You go, there's fish everywhere, but they're fish often of the
same age class.
So what you want in the idealtheoretical population is is a
good mix throughout, obviouslynot top heavy.
So like all your fish are bigand there's no young fish.
That's another warning sign initself.
But you know you want a moreeven spread.
That's not just we've only gotyoung fish or we've only got one
or two year classesrepresenting a huge portion of

(45:53):
the fishery.

Speaker 1 (45:53):
So yeah, that's what people don't don't interesting,
it's hard it.

Speaker 3 (45:58):
There's so much detail to it the deeper you dig
into it and you can get sotechnical on this, but I think
it's one of those things where,if we're good stewards about our
fish and the fish we care about, we need to learn more about
them and have a look at whatthat means for our fishing and
our fishing behaviors.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
The days are gone of filling the freezer with Jewish.
I'll go out and say it.
My granddad, he tells stories.
I was saying the other day thathe used to go down the road
from his house and catch 10mulloway in a session.
Who the fuck needs 10 mullowayin their freezer?
Why would you want to freezethat many fish anyway?

Speaker 3 (46:32):
Why would you want?

Speaker 1 (46:32):
to eat a mulloway.

Speaker 3 (46:34):
I'm actually only ever A little one's good, I kept
one.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
I kept one that I caught off the beach at Shark
Bay just to try it.
I hadn't eaten them all awayyet this thing, I tried to
release it.
It wouldn't release.
I don't know if it hadsomething to do with the
adrenaline or it was just ashit-tasting fish, but man, it
was like chewing on a minty.

Speaker 2 (46:54):
It was pretty rough and sticky.

Speaker 1 (46:55):
I didn't really like it to be honest, but each to
their own.

Speaker 2 (46:58):
Even the saltwater ones.
Generally, my rule of thumb isif fish comes from the salt
they're a lot better tasting.
The mulloway I've eaten out ofthe saltwater, there's just a
real fishy taste.

Speaker 1 (47:10):
I don't know.
The northern ones are actuallyall right.
It probably comes down to howyou cook it.
Really, I'm sure.

Speaker 3 (47:16):
The soapies are a funny one.
Everyone goes, oh, soapiestaste like soap.
I don't reckon there's much toit.
I reckon it's more like thelathering up you get when you're
on the skin of that slime.
It turns into that soapy kindof foam.
Yeah, Because I've eaten 60 to70 centimetre mulloway and I
reckon they're the best eatingsize of those mulloway.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
That's a sweet spot.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
There's probably a bunch of people that are
hopefully there's a bunch ofpeople listening to this but
there's probably a bunch ofpeople out there that will say
mate, mulloway are the best fishin the sea.
It's their experience of goingout.
And this is what I think is.
A fish always tastes better ifyou've put effort into catching
it and you know, and then theylook after their catch really
well, or they'll have adifferent way of preparing it

(47:56):
that we're not sure about andyou know, if we went and sat
down and ate it with them, I'msure it would taste good.
So I'm not shitting on Mullowayas an eating fish, but my
experience is they aren't thebest.

Speaker 1 (48:07):
Yeah, look, I've only ever eaten one and it wasn't
great.
I mean, I wouldn't complain Ifyou needed some food and that's
all you had.
You'd eat it, no problem.
I all you had, you'd eat it, noproblem.
I'm sure you can prepare it ina way that tastes pretty good as
well.

Speaker 3 (48:18):
I don't often eat pinkies.

Speaker 1 (48:20):
Cooking skill.

Speaker 3 (48:21):
Yeah, it's like snapper fantastic eating fish.
I don't know, I'm a bit of afish snob.
I've got a lot of selection atmy disposal, so I'll take, yeah,
yeah, yeah, Braxy Cod.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
King George, but pinkies the mother-in-law.
Yeah, no, we go and catchpinkies, I go.
I can't be bothered fillingthem, you guys can take them
home.

Speaker 3 (48:41):
I just like the experience.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
Jeez thanks mate, you're doing your favor.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
Yeah, coming back to what I was saying, like you know
, my granddad would take a lotof fish more than he needed and
it would go to the neighbor, itwould go to whoever really your
friends at work.
Those days are kind of gone,really, in terms of jewies.
For sure you can't really bekilling that many jewies like
you.
Look at a lump.

(49:05):
You might sound, you know, youprobably know better because you
drop the cameras, but there'snot hundreds of jewies down
there is there in the past therehas been, so I looked at some.

Speaker 3 (49:14):
Um, there was a fisheries paper that was written
a while back that had anecdotalrecords from commercial fishing
.

Speaker 1 (49:21):
What does that mean for us?

Speaker 3 (49:23):
It means that back in the day there were records from
commercial fishing of schoolsof Jewies, hundreds of metres
long and tens of metres high,comprised of hundreds and
hundreds of fish.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
Blake still couldn't catch one.

Speaker 3 (49:36):
Well, I reckon he could you have a pretty good
record.

Speaker 1 (49:40):
I've seen things You've had a few dewy covers on
the front of that mag there,haven't you?

Speaker 2 (49:44):
Yeah, that one in particular probably wasn't the
best user.

Speaker 1 (49:48):
Anyway, carry on.

Speaker 3 (49:49):
They're not typically the fish that would aggregate
to spawn.
Yeah, so they'll aggregate,sometimes in smaller groups
pre-spawning, and then they'llpair off and go and do their
thing.
There's some complex socialbehaviours involved in that,
including the large male, andsome dominance behaviour going
on there, but I won't touch onthat because that's a deep, deep
hole to go down.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
Yeah, we don't ruffle any feathers, as much as we try
.

Speaker 3 (50:12):
Yeah, that's more.
I just could spend about anhour talking about it yeah, yeah
.
No, it's like uh, jewies willtypically be in in small packs,
I guess, in our currentenvironment, and then at
different times a year, the, thesex ratios will vary in in that
group.
So, uh, right now, when they'rein uh spawning mode, so they'll
do batch spawning.
Where they'll have one spawningevent, they'll go and recharge.

(50:35):
They'll have another, they'llgo re-charge, uh, but they're
not doing it like snapper do,where they whirlwind and they'll
school up in big numbers andjust broadcast spawn is the term
for that.
So deweys will do that pairingoff behavior.
And it means that often thesesmaller schools are controlled
by a dominant male and sometimesthere's one or two other males

(50:56):
hanging around, but the rest arefemales.
So you'll get quite femaledomino schools.
I think from memory the ones wegot in Savannahs, the majority
of them were female.
Yeah, they were.
So that seems like a prettycommon thing to happen at this
time of year and then winter youtend to have a little more even
keel, with those males poppingup a little more regularly in
catches.
Yeah right.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
We've spoken about Jewies a lot, but let's go back
to that day.
It's funny, that was a sick day.
We obviously ticked the Jewiesoff pretty early, Run us through
that.
What did we end up doing afterthat?
We kind of had a pretty sickday really.
Yeah well, I'll just say myexperience with Jewies at the
moment.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
Is you mentioned?
There's not a lot around.
I feel like the fishing is asas good as it has been in, in
sort of my memory.
Uh, the only thing is we'vementioned it's probably not as
many big fish as what we used toget.
Um, I'd probably, a decade ago,went through a run where we
would go out and we would easilyget to 12 plus kilo fish.

(51:54):
Um, every every time we wentout.

Speaker 1 (51:57):
Yeah, gotcha.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
My record recently is pretty low.
But I'm also going out and mycultural shift in how I fish
from has probably changed alittle bit as well, because I'll
go out and I'll just keep thefirst ones, put them straight in
the icebox and move on.
So maybe it's a little bit ofthat that's changed with me,
where we're not getting as manybig fish.
But basically we just went outfor a good day's fishing.

(52:21):
We wanted to try and mix it upa little bit, but the first
target was to go out and get acouple of demersals on the board
, and we actually took it quiteslow to begin with, didn't we?
Because we had some cameras outthere and we're like, oh, we'll
do a little bit of filming, andwent to the first spot and
basically dropped down straightonto some deweys and it was.

Speaker 3 (52:43):
You know what they're like when you drop a jig in
their face.

Speaker 2 (52:45):
It was straight on, wasn't?
It, it was like one of thosedays where it was like you
barely even get a wind on.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
And straight up and we talk about farming, when you
have one of those days andthere's four fish to be caught
on the boat and we sort ofthought, oh, we'll get ourselves
a feed, we'll catch our fourdeweys, so we'll move spots
though.

Speaker 3 (53:04):
So I don't really want to smoke the one spot.
Yeah, thought of mursels isimportant to say, but I mean,
when you've got dewey spots likethat, it's not unrealistic to
say four deweys yeah, but yeah,whether that's baldies and break
and stuff, I would have beenhappy.
It doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
Hey, they're just as good, if not better, I would
have been more happy withBalching Roper, because they're
my wife's favourite fish as well.
So if I can take one of thosehome, I'm in the good books.
But that was the thing is, wepulled a fish off, I think the
first lump, which is about 30metres, maybe just over 35
metres, I think it was.
So we thought, oh, it's niceweather, we'll move spots and

(53:38):
see if we can get something elseor something different or
another one off, another spot.
And then, sure enough, it was.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
That was the big one that I lost, yeah.

Speaker 3 (53:46):
Yeah, that first one, my deep liner's still in his
mouth, is it?
I went a little bit too.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
I've made a habit of losing deep liners mate the last
couple of weeks.

Speaker 3 (53:54):
Not the jig you want to be losing.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:55):
I've lost a couple of them, but yeah, I lost a big
one on one of Jase's jigs thathe lent me.

Speaker 3 (54:01):
That's now donated to the Jewy population.
I want a bit of Jewy.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
I was able to redeem myself.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
And basically Got a good little healthy one.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
And we had a little conversation the other day after
talking to Whitey about one ofyour deep liner jigs that we
think might have got snipped offby a mackerel as well, yeah, so
we actually ended up going, youknow, for another trip a couple
of weeks later and droppedanother deep liner that I just
bought from Complete and firstdrop of the day.
Man, I'm like, yeah, gone tight, sunk the hooks into it and

(54:33):
snipped gone.

Speaker 3 (54:33):
I need to stop taking expensive jigs to the Savannies
because you don't need them.
I've done it in the pastinexpensive jigs to the
savannies because you don't needthem.
I've done it in the past.
I've been snipped on hay,ollies and now deep liners and
it's like sometimes you go tripsthere and you fish a couple of
days or whatever, and you don'tlose a single jig and you go
great.
But nowadays there's sharksthere, there's Mackies there.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
That's what Whitey was alluding to was the Mackies
and kind of how.
You probably recall theconversation a little bit better
than I do, but what was Whiteysaying?

Speaker 2 (54:58):
Yeah, well, he's found a couple of spots where
he's dropped down for demersals,and they just kept getting
snipped off.
So eventually they landed acouple of Mackies and then they
realized, oh, hang on a second.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
There's a fishery here for jigging for pelagics.

Speaker 3 (55:11):
Yeah, I mean I'm going to have to listen to his
podcast now and see what he'sgot to say about that, see what
he's got to say about that boat.

Speaker 2 (55:16):
Yeah, he's found some great fisheries off that sort
of Durian Bay area.
Anyway, it was one of thosedays where everything was
aligning, so it didn't take uslong to get our demersals, and
then we moved inshore, went fora swim.

Speaker 3 (55:28):
And started seeing herring everywhere while I was
swimming and I was going.
Oh, I need to get back to theboat.

Speaker 2 (55:33):
I don't think I've seen someone swim quicker back
to the boat and grab a rod.

Speaker 3 (55:37):
I swam because you had my rod on your boat, on the
support boat.
So I swam over to that boat,grabbed the rod and backstroked
back to the other boat, holdingthe rod out of the water, and
then got the micro jig on andstarted casting around and
pretty soon we found a bulk heapof herring.
That was the funnest part ofthe day.
It was just the amount ofherring.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
I was going to say's, so that's a highlight for me of
of that day right, and which isreally what we talk about now.
When it comes to to fishing,it's like being able to change
it up and target all thesedifferent species, and if you
had stayed out in the deep blue,um, it's sort of stuff that you
would never see.
But we're casting these smalllures in around the, the reef
and literally saying 20 or 30herring, just come pouring out
Even more.

Speaker 1 (56:20):
Mate, I think you're underselling that.
It was about 50 at times there.

Speaker 3 (56:23):
Yeah, man, it's a shitload and they were keen,
like we were skipping the lureout of the water as fast as we
could wind, and they weregetting a little bit aerial on
it, the way that salmon do whenyou get into a school of them.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
We were trying to get photos of them right, big zoom
lens trying to get them jumpingout of the water, like because
they're such a small fish.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
It was actually quite hard for me to nail a shot, but
it's sick day, oh yeah, like wemoved into taylor after taylor,
then we moved into taylor andthen it's sort of we, yeah, we
went and pulled the ocky pots,as we mentioned, and for me it's
like gone are the days ofsomeone being oh, he's a gun
fisherman and he can just go outthere and target one species
and come back in with a big one.
It's like now I look at fishshows and it's like if they're

(57:03):
the sort of angler that can goout there and they can say you
know what?
I'm going to go get ayellowtail kingfish today, or
I'm going to get a Samson fish,or I'm going to get a flathead,
and they can do it all.
That's a good fisherman.
That's a good fisherman.

Speaker 3 (57:16):
Yeah, I agree 100%.
Even if I look at my ownfishing, that's what I strive to
be.
It's a work in progress andit's why fishing is such a
never-ending journey.
You're goal-setting throughoutthe whole process.
There's no end to it.
You're always learning.
You're always getting better.
There's always new fish tocatch in new ways, like Sam's

(57:38):
Fish on Fly.
Who does that?

Speaker 1 (57:40):
No one, yeah, no one does that in 30 metres.
Craig Radford pioneered.

Speaker 2 (57:44):
that I'm pretty sure I will mention on that fishing
trip we did have Scotty Watsonwhat a legend mate On the other
boat and this bloke is acharacter right.
So I've done a lot of fishingwith Scotty.
He was and your family.

Speaker 1 (57:56):
I know Scotty well.
Yeah, we're connected throughlong story, complicated little
web, but I've known Scotty for along time and his family.

Speaker 2 (58:03):
Through the family, and I'll tell a quick story
about him.
I'd love to have a chat to him.
I don't know how he would go ona podcast, but I reckon he'd be
epic.

Speaker 1 (58:10):
A couple of beers.
A couple of beers, he'd be good.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
He's funny for years and I'll go to Savannies and
Scotty lives up there, so if noone was around or whatever he
was keen, I'd hit him up.
Scotty, you want to go fishing?
Yep, always.
So he became someone I couldrely on.
So I remember going fishingwith him one day and we tried
for inshore pink snapper and itwas rough as guts and we bled,

(58:37):
got nothing, but we fishedpretty hard and then it was like
all right, we'll make a plan,we're going tomorrow, we're
going out and we're going to tryand get ourselves a couple of
demersals and the weatherforecast wasn't that great.
Anyway, we were heading out thesouth passage and I remember
just being massive swell hugesea breeze.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
That's not a passage you want to take in massive
swell.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
I could meet my maker here and I was in my little 599
polycraft and getting wet and Iremember thinking to myself
this is this fucked.
I'm about to turn to scotty andsay mate, what do you reckon?
let's just turn around and go inwhen I you know and just as
I've looked at him to open mymouth, I get like this big hand

(59:21):
on my shoulder and I was like ittook me back and I flinched and
then he just like it's likehe's looking out to sea and he
just goes, take a look aroundlike, and I sort of looked at
him.
He goes no boys out here, justmen it was like a grand final
speech.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
he goes no boys out, just men it was like a grand
final speech.

Speaker 2 (59:41):
He goes no boys out here, just men.
Have a look around.
He's like this is when Godcomes into play.

Speaker 3 (59:47):
This is when we get rewarded.
I really hope he doesn't at ourspot.

Speaker 2 (59:50):
This is when we get rewarded for all the hard work
we did yesterday, we'll get them.
First spot, we'll get them.
And I was like, yeah, how didyou go First?

Speaker 1 (59:57):
spot, we'll get him.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
first spot we'll get him and I was like yeah, how'd
you go, did you?

Speaker 1 (59:59):
get fish first spot.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
We got our fish and I just turned around and looked
at him.
I was like let's go in and hewas like yeah, it's bloody shit
out here let's go in.

Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
So he was feeling the same.
I think we've needed the bumpup speech himself more but
anyway that's a little bit aboutwrap up.
You've, uh you've got somequick fire questions to shoot at
jace though like every otherguest man.
So this is.
We do not need a complicated uhanswer here, man, it's just
bang straight at the point.

(01:00:26):
First thing that comes to mind.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
So far away, all right, so top three eating fish.

Speaker 3 (01:00:32):
Uh king george break seed cod, coral trout he's
thought about that Daiwa orShimano.

Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
This is a new one Shimano.

Speaker 3 (01:00:41):
Shimano most things Light tackle rods, Daiwa, there
we go.
So Daiwa or Shimano.

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
Oceans, I guess All right.

Speaker 3 (01:00:53):
One lure for the rest of your life.
Are we talking jig or hard body?

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
casting One lure, one lure, one style of fishing.
You just got to pick one lureCam Like hard body casting lure.

Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
One lure, one style of fishing.
You just got to pick one lureCamzen Zip.
Bait Camzen tiny.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
Oh yeah, you've brain .
The flatties brim everything onthem.
The little red one's yourfavorite, if I'm not mistaken.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
I'll have to see them .
I don't know if I know thoseones.
All right.

Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
I mean, I should have chosen a twisty, really there
Awesome for rainbow trout.
Yeah, yeah, all right, bestboat snack I don't eat on the
boat, I'll come back and I'll bejust starving.
Mostly it'll be whatever.
I don't even know.
Shapes are probably a good one,shapes.

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
Barbecue choice.

Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
I don't know, just whatever I find in the pantry.

Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
Yeah, I'll raid the pantry and just go.
I'm going to chuck in Some sortof biscuit.

Speaker 3 (01:01:36):
Yeah, yeah, just like-.

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
Something dry and stuff I'd say maybe chicken
crimpy if I had to pick one.
No, we disagree there.
Barbecue man.

Speaker 3 (01:01:44):
Bucket list.
It all ends up tasting likefish anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
Bucket list destination Fishing.

Speaker 3 (01:01:52):
That's a tough one.
I've got a lot of places I'dlove to go.
The next kind of destination Iwant to go and try is the
Rollies.

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
I want to go and fish out the Rollies.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
But I mean internationally.

Speaker 3 (01:02:03):
There's so many places I could list.

Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
Yeah, rollies is a good choice If you could have a
beer or dinner with any fisho,dead or alive.
Who is it?

Speaker 3 (01:02:14):
These are meant to be quick for us to think about
these.

Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
That's all right.
Yeah, it's a bit of a thought.

Speaker 3 (01:02:20):
I reckon I could go and talk a while with Scotty
Scotty.
Coghlan's a good one, but RossCusack would be one from back in
the day.
Mate, I'm with you on that one.

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
Eh, have you read his book Hooks?

Speaker 3 (01:02:31):
for.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
Life.
Yeah, I'm in the middle ofreading that now, but I'm a
bloody slow reader and a littlebit dyslexic, so it's taken me a
little while to get through.
But I've actually got hisFishing in the Wild West book.

Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
I saw it there.
I've got a copy as well, yeahunreal.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
I'd love to get Kiwi on the podcast.
Is he still around?

Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
I'm not sure.
I only know him by reputation.
That's good, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
No offence.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
Kiwi, if you're listening, yeah one.
Any advice for a?

Speaker 3 (01:02:55):
young fisherman.
Uh, don't be scared to askquestions, like at all.
Um, there's three things thatgo into learning about fishing
quickly.
One thing is going and askingquestions to do the research
from people who know whatthey're doing.
The second is doing researchyourself, reading um, watching

(01:03:15):
videos, picking up as much ofthat information.
And the third is the only thingyou can't go and do from the
living room or at your tacklestore is going out fishing and
finding the patterns yourself.
They're the three things thatgo into it and the the bit that
varies between people is thatexperience thing and and what
people make a various situation.
So you got a bit to be a goodfisherman.

(01:03:36):
You got to be thinking, love,thinking, love it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
Sick man.
That was a banger chat.
Man Dropped some knowledgebombs there.
It was sick to have somebodyfrom your background with a
science perspective too, man, soappreciate you coming in man.

Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
Oh, can I fire a question back real quick Shit
yeah, you can.
Before you close up, mosttraumatizing lost fish Rothy, oh
you've set me up here haven'tyou.

Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
Man, I hooked a pretty big mullet last year,
Actually, yeah, last year.
Now in 2025.
I was actually on the boat withSammy Smith a fellow complete
angler alumni.
He is a gun, wicked mulletfisherman and what a legend that
bloke is.
But we were out fishing awell-known spot.
You've been there with me aswell and I've just got a brand

(01:04:22):
new combo.
I think I said this to Leck theother day maybe, and I've
hooked up to this mullet.
I've seen it on my side scandoing the standard vortex thing
that they do when they'restarting to congregate and sunk
the hook into this thing.
I reckon I felt it beat itstail, maybe like three times.
It bowed the head to me.

(01:04:42):
Yeah, like you know how the roddoes the little before it starts
, yeah, you know going off and Ifelt it just run into these um
this structure and ding, ding,ding, ding, ding gone.
I've fished on that 16poundpound leader and 20-pound
braid.

Speaker 3 (01:05:00):
It ran me all the way through.
Credit to the braid I was using.
I just loose, dragged, drovearound and around and around,
got the fish out.

Speaker 1 (01:05:07):
No way, that's exactly what I was using, bro P1
20-pound J-braid Expedition and16-pound J-thread leader.

Speaker 3 (01:05:14):
So next time use Suffix 832,.

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
mate there we go All right, that stuff is the
toughest braid going around,sick.
It's a big mullet for me.

Speaker 2 (01:05:23):
My worst.

Speaker 3 (01:05:24):
Most traumatizing lost fish.

Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
Most traumatizing is I reckon it was well over a
metre 15 barramundi.

Speaker 3 (01:05:30):
And.

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
I looked at the leader just before I cast out
that live bait because I'd justlanded a big fish and I've told
Rothy this story and I asked mymate, what do you reckon?
And he said, no, that'll be allright, throw it out.
So, nath rob, you owe me ameter 20 barra mundi, mate.

Speaker 3 (01:05:47):
so it was up.
Yeah, you let him talk.

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
You knew it, but yeah , I know but it was one of those
moments and it was like we'vesaid.
It was my my own mistake and itwas because the bite was so hot
and I'd landed multiple fish onit and it was only 60 pound um
leader and it's just like Iwasn't thinking I was going to
get a big fish on the next oneand I fought it to five meters
from me and it's it would havebeen my biggest barra to to this

(01:06:12):
point.

Speaker 3 (01:06:13):
So it's just a lesson yeah, you're just like a lesson
of just nothing, like a lostfish.
To teach you a lesson, mate I?

Speaker 1 (01:06:20):
probably would have been good with that mullet that
I lost, Like probably.
You know, you never know howbig that fish was, but having
Sammy on the boat with me, whoknows?

Speaker 3 (01:06:28):
mullet.
He's caught hundreds of them.
He's the ultimate hype man.
He put me on to my first one inthe swan.

Speaker 1 (01:06:34):
There you go, mullies in the swamp, and he looked at
me and he goes.
I could see it in his face thathe was devo for me.
He goes big.

Speaker 3 (01:06:40):
I fucking feel sick for you, rothy, that was a huge
fit, and I was just like I, I'dhad to sit there, like I was
like.

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
You know that, those memes you see where pablo
escobar's standing in his poolyeah, yeah, like just thinking
about his life.
That was me just sitting therelike hello darkness, my old
friend.
I was just off it, but anywaysick way to wrap it up.

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
Yeah, mate, appreciate you coming in.
We'd love to get you in moreand more, especially when
there's some topical um stuffaround.
When it comes to fishing, Iknow that you've got plenty more
knowledge than you just gave usum, but it was wicked yeah, man
we'll tap in.

Speaker 3 (01:07:14):
Thanks boys.
No, no, pleasure to be on allright have a good one yeah, see
ya.

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Ep.04 | Jayson Spencer | Dhufish, Tackle Shop Wisdom & Finding Your Own Spots

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep.04 | Jayson Spencer | Dhufish, Tackle Shop Wisdom & Finding Your Own Spots