May 19, 2025 • 31 mins
Julian Simpson is a British writer, director, and audio dramatist known for redefining modern audio fiction through immersive storytelling and atmospheric world-building. With a background in film and television, he is the creator of The Lovecraft Investigations, Mythos, and Who is Aldrich Kemp? - projects marked by his signature themes of mystery, belief, and the unknown. Julian is the founder of Pleasant Green, a creative label through which he produces high-concept fiction for audio. When not conjuring fictional worlds, he can often be found at the crossroads of myth and storytelling armed with a typewriter and an ever-expanding archive of the strange.
Explore his projects and updates at: pleasantgreen.co.uk
Curious about Aleister Crowley and the myths that surround him?
Help bring this bold new factual audio series to life - starring characters from The Lovecraft Investigations. Support the Kickstarter now at: kickstarter.com/projects/crowleyaudio/lovecraft-investigations-crowley
Tarot Interviews credits
- Host and producer: Finbarre Snarey
- Theme music composer: Amelia Lawn
- Additional music: Nicola Snarey
- Cover art: Rein G
If you're curious about the cards we use and want to find out more, visit our Tarot Interviews podcast page.
Disclaimer: The Tarot Interviews podcast is intended for entertainment purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the hosts and guests are their own and do not constitute professional, legal, financial, medical, or psychological advice. Listeners are encouraged to seek guidance from qualified professionals where appropriate.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Finbarre Snarey (00:20):
Tarot Interviews.
Welcome to Tarot Interviews, Ifyou haven't joined us before.
My name is Fin and today'sguest is Julian Simpson, a
screenwriter, director and audiostoryteller known for his
(00:41):
groundbreaking audio dramas likethe Lovecraft Investigations
and Mythos.
With a background in televisionand a sharp instinct for
serialised storytelling, Julianhas carved out a unique space in
British audio fiction.
I caught up with Julian abouthis exciting Kickstarter
Lovecraft Investigations Crowley.
This project will be a purelyfactual account of Alistair
(01:04):
Crowley's life and adventures,presented by fictional
characters that you mightrecognise from Julian's earlier
stories.
In this conversation, Julianreflects on the themes that run
through his work, his beliefs,the mysteries he's created and
the cosmic unknown, all throughthree chosen tarot cards.
Julian, how the devil are you?
Julian Simpson (01:24):
Hello
Finbarre Snarey (01:26):
I can see you're sitting comfortably, so
let us begin your tarotinterview.
What have you got there?
Julian Simpson (01:32):
So I've got all my tarot decks here, but I don't
obviously need them becauseyou've got a special tarot
camera.
Finbarre Snarey (01:40):
And I've got two special decks.
So do you have a preferencebetween Pamela Coleman-Smith's
Classic Rider-Waite?
Julian Simpson (01:47):
Yes, nice.
Finbarre Snarey (01:49):
Or we've got Mr Crowley and Frida Harris's
Thoth deck.
Julian Simpson (01:54):
I think we have to go Crowley.
Finbarre Snarey (01:56):
Crowley.
Julian Simpson (01:56):
I think we have to.
That's this one, absolutely, oh, very nice.
The other one I've got thisDeviant Moon tarot, which is
amazing, and the Hexen 2.0 Tarot.
Have you seen this?
Finbarre Snarey (02:09):
I have.
Did you go to the TarotExhibition in London?
I did.
Ah, that was the first time I'dseen that particular deck Same
here.
Julian Simpson (02:17):
And that's why I bought it there.
Yeah, I went with my wife,who's doing a PhD, who plays
Kennedy Fisher in Lovecraft.
Yeah, I went with my wife,who's doing a PhD, who plays
Kennedy Fisher in Lovecraft, andwe discovered while we were
there that the Warburg Institutehas Crowley's archive, which is
kind of interesting becauseyou're only allowed in.
They've got notebooks, they'vegot letters, they've got
(02:38):
everything and he bequeathed itto someone who then bequeathed
it to Warburg, and you're onlyallowed in with the kind of
serious academic credentialsthat my wife has.
So when we do crowley, we'regoing to be in the weird
position where kennedy fish isactually going to be doing her
own research did you have to?
(02:59):
I'm just wondering if there'sany particular scanner that you
would go through that detectsbad vibes or even good vibes.
I'm not sure which ones wouldbe least welcome in that space.
I don't know.
The Warburg Institute isapparently quite weird.
I was talking to a couple ofacademics about it recently and
I said, oh, the Crowley archiveis at Warburg.
And they both went yeah, ofcourse it is.
So I don't know what that saysabout the Warburg Institute, but
(03:22):
it's interesting.
Finbarre Snarey (03:24):
So, as I was walking around and looking at
the various cards that are ondisplay, when I saw the Thoth
cards that they had, were theythe original ones?
I mean, they looked stunning,they were.
They were yes, yeah, they werevery good.
Yes, I'm just looking at theKickstarter right now.
I mean you must be glancingback to this every so often and
I can see.
I mean you've utterly smashedyour goal here.
(03:45):
You're on what's it?
87,000 now and rising.
Julian Simpson (03:47):
Yes, I am, I am.
It's become a full-time job,obviously, and I can't take my
eyes off that ticker onKickstarter, which is stupid,
because I actually have a dayjob that I should be doing and
I'm not doing it, I'm juststaring at that going.
How do I make the numbers movefaster?
And it's amazing that we hitthe target inside 24 hours,
(04:08):
because it was a big target.
It's a, you know, audio showsnormally Kickstarter for like 15
, 20 grand.
We went for 70 and we hit itunder in under 24 hours, which
is amazing.
And yet immediately we hit it Iwas like, well, now I want the
stretch goals, now I want to doan episode of Mythos, now I want
to do this new show that I'vegot in my head.
So now we're creeping towardsstretch goals and I'm just
(04:30):
desperately trying to kind ofjuice the action.
Somehow we're doing a properfactual deep dive into Crowley
across five episodes.
I don't think anyone's done aCrowley documentary that
extensive before.
Finbarre Snarey (04:43):
Good, you've got so much to cover as well.
I mean, I was just having aquick glance into his background
myself.
I mean, first of all, the ideathat he used to send
anti-Christmas cards to peopleis something that delights me,
and he was a show producer atone point in 1913.
Julian Simpson (04:58):
He was with a group called the Ragged Ragtime
Girls and I think it wassomething like nine violinists
who went around the world andthey actually had revolvers and
secreted on their persons incase of vagabonds and assassins
and he managed them just becausehe was at alistair crowley yeah
, it's, it's a, it's the this iskind of the problem with him
(05:18):
actually of going we're going todo five episodes is a deep dive
on in our into alistair crowleyand you wonder whether five is
enough, because there's a lot tocover and also there's a lot to
uncover.
I think there's.
I'm doing it with RichardMclean Smith, who makes the
Unexplained Podcast, and we weretalking about it the other day
and just saying actually wethink we're going to end up
(05:41):
coming out of the end of episodefive with a kind of well, that
was that like hero, villain, Idon't think you can possibly
know, and I think we're going totry and present him in as
objective a way as possible.
But I'm pretty sure we're goingto uncover some stuff that
probably wasn't okay at the timeand definitely wouldn't be okay
now, and I think you kind ofcan't shy away from it.
(06:02):
But the same time, 72 years ofa man's life doing incredibly
varied and extraordinary things,and some of them are going to
be amazing and some of them aregoing to be probably despicable
did you ever?
Finbarre Snarey (06:15):
You may already know this, and I'm sure that
you do.
Did you read up about thebattle of blithe road?
Julian Simpson (06:20):
Yo, no, this is just a podcast where I'm going
to look stupid.
Finbarre Snarey (06:26):
No, no, no.
I mean this is just from acursory glance around the
internet, just the juicy stuff.
There was an event called theBattle of Blythe Road, and I
won't be doing this justice andI will be receiving messages
from people saying, no, none ofthat happened.
According to popular belief,crowley staged an occult drama
at the second order temple ofthe hermetic order of the golden
dawn on 36 Blythe road inLondon right, and he was dressed
(06:50):
as the Egyptian goddess Cyrus,except he was also wearing a
black mask, a cross and a kilt,I believe, and his partner who
was with him.
She was topless and carrying alarge sword and her name was
Elaine Simpson.
Julian Simpson (07:10):
So she's no relation.
I take it no, except Elaine ismy mother's middle name.
Finbarre Snarey (07:14):
It's quite bizarre.
Okay, and yeah, she's said tobe part of the ceremonial
attempt to take over the temple,but the mad thing is I mean
that is pretty insane.
But the mad thing is WB Yeatsthe poet, was part of the rival
faction and, it's believed,pushed Crowley down the stairs
at one point.
Julian Simpson (07:33):
Oh, that's a nice factoid because Yeats was
very involved in all of thatstuff.
There were lots of I mean, wecovered this a little bit in
Haunter of the Dark that therewas people like Yates, but there
was also some really nasty, youknow, early members of the
fascist movement knocking around.
Jfc Fuller who was knockingaround and fortunately they all
(07:54):
ran a mile when Crowley startedreally kind of trumpeting his
bisexuality because it wasscandalous and he loved that.
But luckily the fascists allran a mile and we don't want
anything to do with this guy.
Excellent, excellent.
Finbarre Snarey (08:10):
Right, I think it's card time, so it is.
Let me get the first one ready.
So it's a slightly cat-candidway of doing it, but I will
basically shuffle these in frontof the camera.
I want you to reach out acrossthe ether and just tell me when
to stop shuffling and we'll pickone.
Julian Simpson (08:24):
Are you doing the whole deck or just the major
arcana?
Finbarre Snarey (08:27):
Oh, this is the whole deck.
Oh, okay, so we might even endup with one of the weird ones,
who knows?
Can you see that it's sorrow?
It is sorrow, yeah.
Julian Simpson (08:40):
Oh.
So, that is.
Finbarre Snarey (08:46):
Oh no, that is as it should be this is what
would normally be considered tobe the three of swords.
It's pretty stark and honest,isn't it?
Sorrow, yes brilliant.
That sense of spiritual andintellectual suffering piercing
through the veils of illusion.
I believe it's linked to Saturnin Libra and it's forces that
bring focus on balance,responsibility and restriction.
Julian Simpson (09:10):
So these are the things.
It's not a fun card, is it?
Finbarre Snarey (09:13):
Not the most fun?
No, when you look at it, what'sjumping out at you?
Julian Simpson (09:16):
if you can actually see the illustration,
Well, I am struggling a littleto see, but I think it's.
Is it like?
Is the sword lying on?
Is it meant to be?
Finbarre Snarey (09:28):
I don't know if that's a cloth or just a
swirling void.
Julian Simpson (09:32):
Swirling void.
Seems reasonable, doesn't it?
Finbarre Snarey (09:35):
Yeah, although there's something almost like
flower-like or organic aboutthat shape isn't there, it is.
It looks a bit like a blacklettuce, black lettuce.
There we go.
You've now defined that cardfor me from here on Right.
So the black lettuce card, allright.
So the question I'm going topose is let's go with heartache
(09:57):
and disappointment.
So heartache and disappointmentare part of the creative path.
So how do you process personalor professional setbacks?
Julian Simpson (10:05):
That's a good question.
We've had a discussion.
I have a social media kind ofprivate social media thing with
a bunch of people on it and somewriters recently were talking
about exactly that question, howlong they were.
They were asking the flip sidehow long do you celebrate when
you finish a product project?
Or you know, how long do youcelebrate for rest?
Finbarre Snarey (10:26):
On those?
My answer how long do you reston those laurels for?
Exactly yeah.
Julian Simpson (10:31):
And my answer was that I kind of don't ever.
So I want something.
Once I finish a script and itleaves my desk, I move on to the
next thing as quickly aspossible.
I may stop and watch some TV orsomething.
I'm not inhuman, but I tend notto get overly pleased with
myself.
I tend not to get overlypleased with myself, and I think
(10:53):
that is a corollary to adefense against disappointment.
So I don't get overlycelebratory when good things
happen.
I mean, if you do what I do, ifyou work in film and television
not so much audio actually, butif you work in film and
television, 90 to 95, maybe evengoing up to 99% of the things
(11:15):
that you really care about andthe things that you really want
to make don't happen so easily.
Nine out of 10 things that Iwrite don't ever see the light
of day.
So to then allow yourself toget disappointed each time that
happens would not make for avery fun day job.
Finbarre Snarey (11:35):
I'm boggling at how much you must actually
produce, because I mean, justlet me guide you through.
So, with the Lovecraftinvestigations, which I loved,
the case of Charles Dexter Ward,the Whisper in Darkness and the
Shadow over Innsmouth, whichwas my personal favourite, but I
still haven't managed to catchup with the Haunter of the Dark.
Yet I'm getting around to it,but to you that's almost like a
(11:56):
blink of an eye.
You've moved on to other thingsand other things.
How much time do you devote,say, on a night, to your work?
Julian Simpson (12:02):
well, today was on a regular day.
So I would say I I think youget four decent hours right.
I don't think it's a solid fourhours, but I think across the
course of a reasonable day whereyou're uninterrupted and you
can just get down to stuff youmanage.
For that's like there's scienceabout this four hours is pretty
much the most anyone can reallyfocus for they can't do it in
(12:23):
one go, but two two hour spurtsor four one hour spurts.
But you you can kind of get itand you know after a while what
your rhythm is like.
When in the day that happens,you know the lack.
It's very unlikely that one ofthose hours is going to be
straight after lunch, it's it'svery likely it'll be first thing
in the morning.
It's very likely it'll be lateafternoon.
(12:44):
So, yeah, you're kind ofchurning stuff out.
I mean, I'm I've been doingthis for 30 odd years, so when
my nine out of ten statistic is,you know, know, over time, if I
wrote nine things a week, Iwould probably be devastated.
Yeah, it would be ridiculous,but I think it's to the point
about disappointment.
I think that in order to do andthis is advice I give to writers
(13:08):
who are starting out or who areless experienced and who
struggle with this, is that youhave to find the fulfillment in
the work itself.
If I finish a script that Ithink is good, that has to be
enough, the process of writingit being enjoyable, the finished
product being a thing that I'mproud of, because the industry
(13:30):
is not judging that.
The industry is judging whetherthey can attach Brad Pitt to it
and whether someone will makeit and whether they can sell it
to France, and blah, blah, blah,blah, and those things are
nothing to do with the work thatyou did.
So the fact of things not beingmade if it's disappointing,
that suggests that somehow youfailed in a way, and I don't
(13:50):
think you have.
I think you fail if you dosubpar work.
But as long as the work is good, then it goes out there and as
long as there's enough of it,your hit rate will pay the rent.
Finbarre Snarey (14:02):
Superb.
Okay, well, we're going fromheartache and disappointment to
the next card, hopefully up.
Julian Simpson (14:08):
That would be good it's going to be death or
the hanged man or somethingisn't it.
Finbarre Snarey (14:12):
Maybe something nice like the tower, who knows?
Right, let me give these alittle shuffle here and, as
before, tell me when to start.
Julian Simpson (14:18):
Now.
Finbarre Snarey (14:22):
Aha, we have Major Arcana.
We have card number nine, wehave the Hermit.
How's that looking to you?
Julian Simpson (14:29):
I like the Hermit.
It's a nice design, that oneactually on this doth deck.
Yeah, the hermit brings lots ofbells for me in a very literal
way.
It not like I'm probably you.
You know more about the meaningof the cards than I do and it's
probably going to be an awfullot deeper.
But I was thinking about thisearlier today actually I, I I
(14:49):
think when I used to be out,like when I was in, like a lot
of people when I was in my 20s,when I was in my 30s, even a
night where you weren't goingout was some kind of terrible
social catastrophe.
Oh indeed, yeah, it was likewhat on earth has happened that
I'm watching telly?
Why has this gone so badlywrong?
Why aren't there at least 10people in my flat if I'm not
(15:11):
going?
Finbarre Snarey (15:12):
Yeah, why haven't you?
Gone to a nightclub and endedup at some party talking to
people that you'll probablynever see again.
Yeah exactly.
Julian Simpson (15:18):
That was just de rigueur and um, and I do not
miss that at all.
I enjoyed it at the time, but Ido not miss it at all.
Now you have to have a.
There has to be a staggeringlygood reason to get me to leave
the house in the evening.
Now, um, and, and even thenit's kind of reluctant.
You know, and I think that kindof got slightly exacerbated
(15:43):
during covid.
I really liked lockdownobviously not the stuff, not the
reasons for lockdown but Ienjoyed being at home and having
no no going.
Can you come to a boring,pointless meeting?
I didn't realize until a fewyears later actually a couple of
years later that it had changedbehavior for me, that I was now
someone who just didn't want togo to meetings, not in any kind
of a shut-in way, but just in akind of.
(16:05):
I really enjoy being in my ownspace with books and movies and
work and I don't need to be outthere as much as I used to be.
So I think that's why this cardrings a bell.
Finbarre Snarey (16:18):
Exactly that I mean.
The whole meaning of thisparticular card is it's
self-containment preserves,gestates and refines inner truth
.
In those periods ofintrospection, and the creative
breakthroughs that would comewith that, how did solitude
inform your writing?
Julian Simpson (16:36):
So in 2016, 2016 , 2017, so we're pre-lockdown.
Obviously I felt like I'dreached a kind of glass ceiling
working in British television.
I'd done all of the big showsas a writer and as a director.
Finbarre Snarey (16:56):
This is the time to bring out those laurels
again.
Could you just talk me throughsome of those shows you worked
on?
Julian Simpson (17:02):
I did God.
I've done Inspector Linley,which was a big deal at the time
, but I don't think it's stillmade.
Spooks, Hustle, Doctor Wholoads of episodes of new tricks.
Yeah, I did Hotel Babylon.
I did a show called Superstorm.
I did a show called Murder.
It was a lot of shows and thethe run ended with like 16
(17:25):
episodes of New Tricks, whichwas much harder to make than
than people probably imagine andincredibly popular.
So there's a lot of pressure onit and I was out.
You know that's when you're outthere, that's when you're
constantly working and directingstuff and you're out five
o'clock in the morning.
You know every day going to setand you're dealing with
(17:45):
hundreds of people and it's alot and I really like it.
But around 2016, 2017, I kindof went there's nowhere to go
from here and I don't feel likeI've ever written something for
me.
Since when I started, I've beenwriting what people wanted, and
(18:07):
so that's when I sat down and Iwrote a TV script called
Kaleidoscope, which was never ina million years going to get
made here.
It was a spy-fi, secret agentkind of 1960s style show out of
which came Aldrich Kemp.
American agents read it and Igot picked up in the States and
(18:28):
that was a completely new leaseon life for me because the
Americans really liked what Iwanted to write and were very
happy to pay me to write it andI ended up working with movie
stars and doing a whole bunch ofstuff which I'm still kind of
doing, which was much, much,much more.
What would you like to writetoday rather than?
Here's an assignment out ofthat same period and it was
(18:51):
partly born out of doing audio.
It was partly born out ofworking with sweet talk and
Karen Rose at Sweet Talk, whokind of brought me into the
audio space and doing earlierstuff like Bad Memories and then
few state and stuff like Kokomo.
Just Karen would always let mewrite whatever the hell I wanted
and with no kind of adultsupervision apart from Karen's.
(19:11):
You know I over it going.
Is this exactly what you wantit to be?
So I wanted that in TV and filmand the Americans kind of gave
it to me.
That coincided with me notdirecting, not going out, not
being part of the Britishindustry anymore, and I haven't
worked in Britain on anythingsince then, apart from audio
obviously.
So I'm not part of thatindustry.
(19:33):
I don't know anyone in thatindustry anymore.
I don't have anything to dowith it at all.
There's a movie, I think amovie filming on the street
outside today and there's loadsof people as big as I don't know
what it is, but there's loadsof people and I I knew the stunt
guy, but I recognized him andbut I didn't recognize.
It was like weird I'm.
I I'm walking past a big movieor TV set and I no longer know
(19:57):
any of the people here.
So there's a kind of hermitage.
That's a word, isn't it?
I don't know if it relates tohermits, to that.
I got to close the world out.
I got to work for people on theother side of the world who are
on a different time zone, whonever bother me, and I get to
just imagine stuff now.
Finbarre Snarey (20:18):
So the hermitings really worked out
actually, it sounds like you'vebeen given that creative freedom
to explore countless numbers ofworlds.
I mean, I'm just looking at theKickstarter that you've got for
Crowley here and lookingthrough the stretch goals, as
you were saying previously, ofall of the additional things
that you want to do from here on.
It's almost like you'rethinking five, ten moves ahead.
Julian Simpson (20:40):
Yes, or being greedy, but it's um, it's well
actually kind of the oppositeactually, because the smart
thing to do would have just beento have the goal and then keep
the change, but it didn't,because I I imagined that I was
like what if we get to double?
What if we get to 150 000pounds on this kickstarter?
(21:00):
And I was like I could pocket abunch of money, which would be
really handy.
But I was like, actually, I'drather make two more shows
though.
Yeah, I've got those ideas andI'd rather do that.
Otherwise, I'm just going tospend money on stuff I don't
need and then dream about showsI never made.
Finbarre Snarey (21:18):
And looking through the cast list of people
that you work with, it's clearthat you have this marvellous
rapport with the.
The cast list of people thatyou work with, it's clear that
you have this marvelous rapportwith the same cast again and
again and keep knocking it outthe park again and again.
So very lazy at casting.
I don't like new people.
Fair enough, right.
Last card.
Oh, are we there already?
We're there already wow, okayoh, a fabulous one to end on.
Julian Simpson (21:44):
A very positive one.
I never quite know what itmeans and it's always a strength
, we should probably say forpeople listening at home.
I'm never quite.
It's a card I always driftacross when I'm looking through
my decks because I've alwaysseen it as a slightly toxic
(22:06):
attribute, if that makes sense,but strength I'm not sure.
I think, yeah, it's weird.
I've always I've beenambivalent about it.
I've always found it to be.
It's probably a good trait andit's probably got an awful lot
of good aspects to it, but italways feels like a slightly
toxic one.
Finbarre Snarey (22:25):
I'm just going to have another look at this
card, because this may be thefirst time I've ever pulled this
one from the Thoth.
Just bear with me.
Interesting, yeah, because MrCrowley, the trickster, the
mischievous scamp that he is,has switched out Because this is
what confused me, because I wasthinking, hang on on the Thoth
deck.
Switched out because this iswhat confused me, because I was
thinking, hang on on the thothdeck.
(22:46):
Strength has been changed tolust, so sadly, you didn't get
the lust card today.
So what you have here is aminor arcana that now takes the
strength role.
Oh, that is a very interestingturn of events, okay, so what is
the?
What should the?
What would it be on the minorarcana?
So the major arcana representsspirit, and then you have, say,
(23:06):
the wands that represent fireand you've got the swords that
represent air and this strengthcard of unabashed power, the
nine of wands.
This is a card of it's likeenergy, rapid motion, it's
vivacity in all of its formsokay it's okay, I quite like
that.
Julian Simpson (23:22):
That's how I've been feeling at the moment with
the kickstarter.
Actually, it feels like you're.
It's a very different pace ofworking to me from writing doing
a kickstarter, where you'rejust, especially when you're
doing it solo.
It's a completely solo effort.
So it's apart from I've gotartists and people working on
things, but uh, the the runningof the kick Kickstarter and the
(23:43):
setting up of it has been acompletely solo effort and it's
a very different job than what Inormally do and it feels a lot
faster than I'm used to work, inthe sense of I don't mean fast,
as in I write quite quickly,but I mean it's much faster
moving.
There's not much time to think.
Once you hit start, you're justcounting down and you're trying
(24:07):
to get the money in while thetime is running out and you're
doing everything you can to kindof keep the balls in the air
and to keep it going.
And it's a very differentmindset to writing, which is
quite kind of sedate, and sothat kind of vivacity thing does
kind of feel like where I am atthe moment.
Finbarre Snarey (24:26):
Yeah, I mean, you've got this geometric
lattice, so I'm applyingdirection and purpose, so
there's no confusion there.
My question for you is going tobe when inspiration strikes,
how do you capture and act uponit swiftly?
How do you bottle thatlightning?
Julian Simpson (24:40):
Oh, do you mean physically, Like, literally like
, because I use a whole bunch ofdifferent note techniques and
notebooks and stuff like that.
But that's all kind of boring.
I think lightning doesn't ever,very rarely does lightning
strike in a usefully completeway.
Finbarre Snarey (24:58):
Is it more like a bit torrent of lightning?
Is it more like a bit torrentof?
Julian Simpson (25:02):
Lightning.
So what you're really lookingfor is kind of three separate
lightning strikes over a periodof time that carve something out
Because a single lightningstrike?
So, for the example, I wrotedown an idea the other day what
if there was an occult or awicker group that works like the
(25:23):
Hacker Collective Anonymous?
I like it as a what if I reallylike it, but I have nothing to
do with it until at leastanother one or two lightning
strikes comes.
That makes you go.
Oh, that's the context for that.
I mean, I have, you know, I hada lightning strike a while back
and wrote a movie in eight days, which is a feat I've been
(25:45):
desperately trying to replicateever since but haven't been able
to, and that just kind of cameto me kind of fully formed.
But most of the time you'regetting bits and pieces of ideas
and so I tend to write them alldown or put them all somewhere,
so that when another one goesin it might connect up something
that's already there and kindof you know, form some kind of a
matrix that you can work with,because otherwise, you know, you
(26:07):
don't tend to go.
I mean, I wrote a piece aboutthe three episodes of a show
called Mythos that we made priorto the Lovecraft Investigations
.
Within mythos there was Nicolawalker played Mary Lair who was
a, the ghost of a french nun.
Uh and uh, there was in thefirst episode.
(26:28):
She was accompanied by a guycalled Jonathan Hicks who was a
podcaster.
Now Jonathan hicks as apodcaster was a very good
character.
That for that first episode.
But when the BBC said can weget a couple more?
Didn't have any real skill setfor him to carry him through two
more episodes.
So I at the beginning ofepisode two sent him back in
time and killed him in the 17thcentury.
(26:49):
But Jonathan Hicks becameMatthew Hayward in the Lovecraft
investigations because the ideaof a podcaster in that world
was really useful but it wasn'tright for mythos.
But it became the Lovecraftinvestigations and then in
episode three of Mythos, parkerPhoebe Fox's character who
replaced Jonathan Hicks inepisode two, takes on the
(27:09):
personality of a secret agent,of a Modesty Blaze style secret
agent.
She's a chaos witch and shealways brings on a new
personality when she's going toa mission and she brought on the
Modesty Blaze personality.
I'd always had a slight thingabout wanting to do Modesty
Blaze for audio.
It's been done.
But I wanted to do it becauseother people doing it's not
interesting.
And I always wanted Phoebe toplay that part but we were never
(27:31):
going to get it off the ground.
But when I heard her do that inMythos 3, that's what led to
Clara Page and the Aldrich Kempstories.
The ideas build and come out ofeach other if you let them.
Finbarre Snarey (27:43):
It's not so much lightning strikes, as you
know, a kind of flow ofassociations I mean you rattling
through all of thoseconnections there is, uh is
quite the thing.
Julian Simpson (27:53):
And to retain all of that came from.
Finbarre Snarey (27:57):
So going on to the, the technical way that you
put all this down.
I'm always, always up for tipson techniques or if there's any
particular software that you use.
So how do you capture?
Julian Simpson (28:07):
These.
Well, I've actually I've justupgraded my software to a
notebook, which I've nowrealized I prefer to any kind of
software.
Finbarre Snarey (28:16):
Well, I mean it's ultra HD, it's always on.
Julian Simpson (28:19):
Always on, it's really easy.
I had a remarkable tablet whichI have somewhere on, if always
on, it's really easy.
I had a remarkable tablet whichI have somewhere which seemed
like a really good hybridversion of a notebook and a
piece of software slash hardware, yeah, but you open it up and
then you have to turn it on andthen you have to enter your
passcode and then you have tofind the notebook that you were
writing on, by which point themoment's gone yeah moment's gone
, so I use obsidian a lot, I usea lot and I never quite know
(28:44):
which I prefer.
And that is really my problem isthat my problem with my
productivity tools at the momenton the computer is very much
one of.
I remember typing that.
Where did I put it Actually?
Finbarre Snarey (29:02):
Now I like notebooks and I like my manual
typewriters sorry, a manualtypewriter, manual typewriters
1950s, specifically 1950s, 1960smanual typewriters I mean great
for photo shoots and I knowthat you're very partial to
taking the very, very good snapbut an actual typewriter, just
(29:22):
to be working typewriter.
I'll tell you why?
Julian Simpson (29:24):
Because when you , it's a technique I use when
I'm stuck, one of the on ascript or audio thing or
whatever.
One of the techniques I use isto wind a sheet of blank paper
into a manual typewriter, getthe computer keyboard out of the
way, yeah, and usually startwith the words I'm stuck.
Stuck because and keep going.
(29:44):
You can't backspace with atypewriter.
I mean you can, but it'snonsense and you can't delete,
you can't go backwards, so youhave to move forwards.
There's no point in analyzingwhat you've written because
you're just bashing it out, anda manual typewriter requires
much more physical effort than aMac keyboard.
(30:04):
So it's actually becomes quitea different form of working.
It's slower because you'repecking away at keys, they're
heavier and you can't gobackwards.
Finbarre Snarey (30:16):
So everything's intentional.
Julian Simpson (30:18):
Everything's intentional and I find that the
stuff that spills out there on asheet of paper that you know
full well you're just going toscrew up and throw away when
you've got what you need out ofit, can be really useful.
You stumble onto things.
It's the typing of going for arun or something.
It's a change of state.
Finbarre Snarey (30:41):
We've reached the end of our time.
Julian Simpson, it's been anabsolute pleasure and a delight
having on Tarot Interviews.
I wish you luck thank you verymuch.
Julian Simpson (30:49):
I wish you luck with crowley and um, what you're
going to be doing for the restof the evening haven't decided
yet daughter's gone to the pubbecause she's older than yours,
and I think my wife's just comeback from some kind of PhD
gathering, so I'm not surethere's a decent chance that
I'll be watching Elementary.
Finbarre Snarey (31:07):
Excellent, good choice.
Julian Simpson (31:08):
Thank you
Finbarre Snarey (31:11):
That was Julian Simpson on Tarot Interviews, a
revealing conversation with oneof the most distinctive voices
in contemporary audio drama.
From the shadowy corners of theLovecraft investigations to his
ongoing explorations of mythand belief, Julian's
storytelling invites us toquestion what we think we know,
to explore more of his work,including updates on upcoming
(31:32):
projects, visitpleasantgreencouk and, as always
, you can find the fulltranscript, guest links and
today's episode on Spotify,Apple Podcasts and
tarotinterviews.
com.
Thanks for listening.
Tarot Interviews.
Welcome to Tarot Interviews, Ifyou haven't joined us before.
My name is Fin and today'sguest is Julian Simpson, a
screenwriter, director and audiostoryteller known for his
(00:41):
groundbreaking audio dramas likethe Lovecraft Investigations
and Mythos.
With a background in televisionand a sharp instinct for
serialised storytelling, Julianhas carved out a unique space in
British audio fiction.
I caught up with Julian abouthis exciting Kickstarter
Lovecraft Investigations Crowley.
This project will be a purelyfactual account of Alistair
(01:04):
Crowley's life and adventures,presented by fictional
characters that you mightrecognise from Julian's earlier
stories.
In this conversation, Julianreflects on the themes that run
through his work, his beliefs,the mysteries he's created and
the cosmic unknown, all throughthree chosen tarot cards.
Julian, how the devil are you?
Julian Simpson (01:24):
Hello
Finbarre Snarey (01:26):
I can see you're sitting comfortably, so
let us begin your tarotinterview.
What have you got there?
Julian Simpson (01:32):
So I've got all my tarot decks here, but I don't
obviously need them becauseyou've got a special tarot
camera.
Finbarre Snarey (01:40):
And I've got two special decks.
So do you have a preferencebetween Pamela Coleman-Smith's
Classic Rider-Waite?
Julian Simpson (01:47):
Yes, nice.
Finbarre Snarey (01:49):
Or we've got Mr Crowley and Frida Harris's
Thoth deck.
Julian Simpson (01:54):
I think we have to go Crowley.
Finbarre Snarey (01:56):
Crowley.
Julian Simpson (01:56):
I think we have to.
That's this one, absolutely, oh, very nice.
The other one I've got thisDeviant Moon tarot, which is
amazing, and the Hexen 2.0 Tarot.
Have you seen this?
Finbarre Snarey (02:09):
I have.
Did you go to the TarotExhibition in London?
I did.
Ah, that was the first time I'dseen that particular deck Same
here.
Julian Simpson (02:17):
And that's why I bought it there.
Yeah, I went with my wife,who's doing a PhD, who plays
Kennedy Fisher in Lovecraft.
Yeah, I went with my wife,who's doing a PhD, who plays
Kennedy Fisher in Lovecraft, andwe discovered while we were
there that the Warburg Institutehas Crowley's archive, which is
kind of interesting becauseyou're only allowed in.
They've got notebooks, they'vegot letters, they've got
(02:38):
everything and he bequeathed itto someone who then bequeathed
it to Warburg, and you're onlyallowed in with the kind of
serious academic credentialsthat my wife has.
So when we do crowley, we'regoing to be in the weird
position where kennedy fish isactually going to be doing her
own research did you have to?
(02:59):
I'm just wondering if there'sany particular scanner that you
would go through that detectsbad vibes or even good vibes.
I'm not sure which ones wouldbe least welcome in that space.
I don't know.
The Warburg Institute isapparently quite weird.
I was talking to a couple ofacademics about it recently and
I said, oh, the Crowley archiveis at Warburg.
And they both went yeah, ofcourse it is.
So I don't know what that saysabout the Warburg Institute, but
(03:22):
it's interesting.
Finbarre Snarey (03:24):
So, as I was walking around and looking at
the various cards that are ondisplay, when I saw the Thoth
cards that they had, were theythe original ones?
I mean, they looked stunning,they were.
They were yes, yeah, they werevery good.
Yes, I'm just looking at theKickstarter right now.
I mean you must be glancingback to this every so often and
I can see.
I mean you've utterly smashedyour goal here.
(03:45):
You're on what's it?
87,000 now and rising.
Julian Simpson (03:47):
Yes, I am, I am.
It's become a full-time job,obviously, and I can't take my
eyes off that ticker onKickstarter, which is stupid,
because I actually have a dayjob that I should be doing and
I'm not doing it, I'm juststaring at that going.
How do I make the numbers movefaster?
And it's amazing that we hitthe target inside 24 hours,
(04:08):
because it was a big target.
It's a, you know, audio showsnormally Kickstarter for like 15
, 20 grand.
We went for 70 and we hit itunder in under 24 hours, which
is amazing.
And yet immediately we hit it Iwas like, well, now I want the
stretch goals, now I want to doan episode of Mythos, now I want
to do this new show that I'vegot in my head.
So now we're creeping towardsstretch goals and I'm just
(04:30):
desperately trying to kind ofjuice the action.
Somehow we're doing a properfactual deep dive into Crowley
across five episodes.
I don't think anyone's done aCrowley documentary that
extensive before.
Finbarre Snarey (04:43):
Good, you've got so much to cover as well.
I mean, I was just having aquick glance into his background
myself.
I mean, first of all, the ideathat he used to send
anti-Christmas cards to peopleis something that delights me,
and he was a show producer atone point in 1913.
Julian Simpson (04:58):
He was with a group called the Ragged Ragtime
Girls and I think it wassomething like nine violinists
who went around the world andthey actually had revolvers and
secreted on their persons incase of vagabonds and assassins
and he managed them just becausehe was at alistair crowley yeah
, it's, it's a, it's the this iskind of the problem with him
(05:18):
actually of going we're going todo five episodes is a deep dive
on in our into alistair crowleyand you wonder whether five is
enough, because there's a lot tocover and also there's a lot to
uncover.
I think there's.
I'm doing it with RichardMclean Smith, who makes the
Unexplained Podcast, and we weretalking about it the other day
and just saying actually wethink we're going to end up
(05:41):
coming out of the end of episodefive with a kind of well, that
was that like hero, villain, Idon't think you can possibly
know, and I think we're going totry and present him in as
objective a way as possible.
But I'm pretty sure we're goingto uncover some stuff that
probably wasn't okay at the timeand definitely wouldn't be okay
now, and I think you kind ofcan't shy away from it.
(06:02):
But the same time, 72 years ofa man's life doing incredibly
varied and extraordinary things,and some of them are going to
be amazing and some of them aregoing to be probably despicable
did you ever?
Finbarre Snarey (06:15):
You may already know this, and I'm sure that
you do.
Did you read up about thebattle of blithe road?
Julian Simpson (06:20):
Yo, no, this is just a podcast where I'm going
to look stupid.
Finbarre Snarey (06:26):
No, no, no.
I mean this is just from acursory glance around the
internet, just the juicy stuff.
There was an event called theBattle of Blythe Road, and I
won't be doing this justice andI will be receiving messages
from people saying, no, none ofthat happened.
According to popular belief,crowley staged an occult drama
at the second order temple ofthe hermetic order of the golden
dawn on 36 Blythe road inLondon right, and he was dressed
(06:50):
as the Egyptian goddess Cyrus,except he was also wearing a
black mask, a cross and a kilt,I believe, and his partner who
was with him.
She was topless and carrying alarge sword and her name was
Elaine Simpson.
Julian Simpson (07:10):
So she's no relation.
I take it no, except Elaine ismy mother's middle name.
Finbarre Snarey (07:14):
It's quite bizarre.
Okay, and yeah, she's said tobe part of the ceremonial
attempt to take over the temple,but the mad thing is I mean
that is pretty insane.
But the mad thing is WB Yeatsthe poet, was part of the rival
faction and, it's believed,pushed Crowley down the stairs
at one point.
Julian Simpson (07:33):
Oh, that's a nice factoid because Yeats was
very involved in all of thatstuff.
There were lots of I mean, wecovered this a little bit in
Haunter of the Dark that therewas people like Yates, but there
was also some really nasty, youknow, early members of the
fascist movement knocking around.
Jfc Fuller who was knockingaround and fortunately they all
(07:54):
ran a mile when Crowley startedreally kind of trumpeting his
bisexuality because it wasscandalous and he loved that.
But luckily the fascists allran a mile and we don't want
anything to do with this guy.
Excellent, excellent.
Finbarre Snarey (08:10):
Right, I think it's card time, so it is.
Let me get the first one ready.
So it's a slightly cat-candidway of doing it, but I will
basically shuffle these in frontof the camera.
I want you to reach out acrossthe ether and just tell me when
to stop shuffling and we'll pickone.
Julian Simpson (08:24):
Are you doing the whole deck or just the major
arcana?
Finbarre Snarey (08:27):
Oh, this is the whole deck.
Oh, okay, so we might even endup with one of the weird ones,
who knows?
Can you see that it's sorrow?
It is sorrow, yeah.
Julian Simpson (08:40):
Oh.
So, that is.
Finbarre Snarey (08:46):
Oh no, that is as it should be this is what
would normally be considered tobe the three of swords.
It's pretty stark and honest,isn't it?
Sorrow, yes brilliant.
That sense of spiritual andintellectual suffering piercing
through the veils of illusion.
I believe it's linked to Saturnin Libra and it's forces that
bring focus on balance,responsibility and restriction.
Julian Simpson (09:10):
So these are the things.
It's not a fun card, is it?
Finbarre Snarey (09:13):
Not the most fun?
No, when you look at it, what'sjumping out at you?
Julian Simpson (09:16):
if you can actually see the illustration,
Well, I am struggling a littleto see, but I think it's.
Is it like?
Is the sword lying on?
Is it meant to be?
Finbarre Snarey (09:28):
I don't know if that's a cloth or just a
swirling void.
Julian Simpson (09:32):
Swirling void.
Seems reasonable, doesn't it?
Finbarre Snarey (09:35):
Yeah, although there's something almost like
flower-like or organic aboutthat shape isn't there, it is.
It looks a bit like a blacklettuce, black lettuce.
There we go.
You've now defined that cardfor me from here on Right.
So the black lettuce card, allright.
So the question I'm going topose is let's go with heartache
(09:57):
and disappointment.
So heartache and disappointmentare part of the creative path.
So how do you process personalor professional setbacks?
Julian Simpson (10:05):
That's a good question.
We've had a discussion.
I have a social media kind ofprivate social media thing with
a bunch of people on it and somewriters recently were talking
about exactly that question, howlong they were.
They were asking the flip sidehow long do you celebrate when
you finish a product project?
Or you know, how long do youcelebrate for rest?
Finbarre Snarey (10:26):
On those?
My answer how long do you reston those laurels for?
Exactly yeah.
Julian Simpson (10:31):
And my answer was that I kind of don't ever.
So I want something.
Once I finish a script and itleaves my desk, I move on to the
next thing as quickly aspossible.
I may stop and watch some TV orsomething.
I'm not inhuman, but I tend notto get overly pleased with
myself.
I tend not to get overlypleased with myself, and I think
(10:53):
that is a corollary to adefense against disappointment.
So I don't get overlycelebratory when good things
happen.
I mean, if you do what I do, ifyou work in film and television
not so much audio actually, butif you work in film and
television, 90 to 95, maybe evengoing up to 99% of the things
(11:15):
that you really care about andthe things that you really want
to make don't happen so easily.
Nine out of 10 things that Iwrite don't ever see the light
of day.
So to then allow yourself toget disappointed each time that
happens would not make for avery fun day job.
Finbarre Snarey (11:35):
I'm boggling at how much you must actually
produce, because I mean, justlet me guide you through.
So, with the Lovecraftinvestigations, which I loved,
the case of Charles Dexter Ward,the Whisper in Darkness and the
Shadow over Innsmouth, whichwas my personal favourite, but I
still haven't managed to catchup with the Haunter of the Dark.
Yet I'm getting around to it,but to you that's almost like a
(11:56):
blink of an eye.
You've moved on to other thingsand other things.
How much time do you devote,say, on a night, to your work?
Julian Simpson (12:02):
well, today was on a regular day.
So I would say I I think youget four decent hours right.
I don't think it's a solid fourhours, but I think across the
course of a reasonable day whereyou're uninterrupted and you
can just get down to stuff youmanage.
For that's like there's scienceabout this four hours is pretty
much the most anyone can reallyfocus for they can't do it in
(12:23):
one go, but two two hour spurtsor four one hour spurts.
But you you can kind of get itand you know after a while what
your rhythm is like.
When in the day that happens,you know the lack.
It's very unlikely that one ofthose hours is going to be
straight after lunch, it's it'svery likely it'll be first thing
in the morning.
It's very likely it'll be lateafternoon.
(12:44):
So, yeah, you're kind ofchurning stuff out.
I mean, I'm I've been doingthis for 30 odd years, so when
my nine out of ten statistic is,you know, know, over time, if I
wrote nine things a week, Iwould probably be devastated.
Yeah, it would be ridiculous,but I think it's to the point
about disappointment.
I think that in order to do andthis is advice I give to writers
(13:08):
who are starting out or who areless experienced and who
struggle with this, is that youhave to find the fulfillment in
the work itself.
If I finish a script that Ithink is good, that has to be
enough, the process of writingit being enjoyable, the finished
product being a thing that I'mproud of, because the industry
(13:30):
is not judging that.
The industry is judging whetherthey can attach Brad Pitt to it
and whether someone will makeit and whether they can sell it
to France, and blah, blah, blah,blah, and those things are
nothing to do with the work thatyou did.
So the fact of things not beingmade if it's disappointing,
that suggests that somehow youfailed in a way, and I don't
(13:50):
think you have.
I think you fail if you dosubpar work.
But as long as the work is good, then it goes out there and as
long as there's enough of it,your hit rate will pay the rent.
Finbarre Snarey (14:02):
Superb.
Okay, well, we're going fromheartache and disappointment to
the next card, hopefully up.
Julian Simpson (14:08):
That would be good it's going to be death or
the hanged man or somethingisn't it.
Finbarre Snarey (14:12):
Maybe something nice like the tower, who knows?
Right, let me give these alittle shuffle here and, as
before, tell me when to start.
Julian Simpson (14:18):
Now.
Finbarre Snarey (14:22):
Aha, we have Major Arcana.
We have card number nine, wehave the Hermit.
How's that looking to you?
Julian Simpson (14:29):
I like the Hermit.
It's a nice design, that oneactually on this doth deck.
Yeah, the hermit brings lots ofbells for me in a very literal
way.
It not like I'm probably you.
You know more about the meaningof the cards than I do and it's
probably going to be an awfullot deeper.
But I was thinking about thisearlier today actually I, I I
(14:49):
think when I used to be out,like when I was in, like a lot
of people when I was in my 20s,when I was in my 30s, even a
night where you weren't goingout was some kind of terrible
social catastrophe.
Oh indeed, yeah, it was likewhat on earth has happened that
I'm watching telly?
Why has this gone so badlywrong?
Why aren't there at least 10people in my flat if I'm not
(15:11):
going?
Finbarre Snarey (15:12):
Yeah, why haven't you?
Gone to a nightclub and endedup at some party talking to
people that you'll probablynever see again.
Yeah exactly.
Julian Simpson (15:18):
That was just de rigueur and um, and I do not
miss that at all.
I enjoyed it at the time, but Ido not miss it at all.
Now you have to have a.
There has to be a staggeringlygood reason to get me to leave
the house in the evening.
Now, um, and, and even thenit's kind of reluctant.
You know, and I think that kindof got slightly exacerbated
(15:43):
during covid.
I really liked lockdownobviously not the stuff, not the
reasons for lockdown but Ienjoyed being at home and having
no no going.
Can you come to a boring,pointless meeting?
I didn't realize until a fewyears later actually a couple of
years later that it had changedbehavior for me, that I was now
someone who just didn't want togo to meetings, not in any kind
of a shut-in way, but just in akind of.
(16:05):
I really enjoy being in my ownspace with books and movies and
work and I don't need to be outthere as much as I used to be.
So I think that's why this cardrings a bell.
Finbarre Snarey (16:18):
Exactly that I mean.
The whole meaning of thisparticular card is it's
self-containment preserves,gestates and refines inner truth
.
In those periods ofintrospection, and the creative
breakthroughs that would comewith that, how did solitude
inform your writing?
Julian Simpson (16:36):
So in 2016, 2016 , 2017, so we're pre-lockdown.
Obviously I felt like I'dreached a kind of glass ceiling
working in British television.
I'd done all of the big showsas a writer and as a director.
Finbarre Snarey (16:56):
This is the time to bring out those laurels
again.
Could you just talk me throughsome of those shows you worked
on?
Julian Simpson (17:02):
I did God.
I've done Inspector Linley,which was a big deal at the time
, but I don't think it's stillmade.
Spooks, Hustle, Doctor Wholoads of episodes of new tricks.
Yeah, I did Hotel Babylon.
I did a show called Superstorm.
I did a show called Murder.
It was a lot of shows and thethe run ended with like 16
(17:25):
episodes of New Tricks, whichwas much harder to make than
than people probably imagine andincredibly popular.
So there's a lot of pressure onit and I was out.
You know that's when you're outthere, that's when you're
constantly working and directingstuff and you're out five
o'clock in the morning.
You know every day going to setand you're dealing with
(17:45):
hundreds of people and it's alot and I really like it.
But around 2016, 2017, I kindof went there's nowhere to go
from here and I don't feel likeI've ever written something for
me.
Since when I started, I've beenwriting what people wanted, and
(18:07):
so that's when I sat down and Iwrote a TV script called
Kaleidoscope, which was never ina million years going to get
made here.
It was a spy-fi, secret agentkind of 1960s style show out of
which came Aldrich Kemp.
American agents read it and Igot picked up in the States and
(18:28):
that was a completely new leaseon life for me because the
Americans really liked what Iwanted to write and were very
happy to pay me to write it andI ended up working with movie
stars and doing a whole bunch ofstuff which I'm still kind of
doing, which was much, much,much more.
What would you like to writetoday rather than?
Here's an assignment out ofthat same period and it was
(18:51):
partly born out of doing audio.
It was partly born out ofworking with sweet talk and
Karen Rose at Sweet Talk, whokind of brought me into the
audio space and doing earlierstuff like Bad Memories and then
few state and stuff like Kokomo.
Just Karen would always let mewrite whatever the hell I wanted
and with no kind of adultsupervision apart from Karen's.
(19:11):
You know I over it going.
Is this exactly what you wantit to be?
So I wanted that in TV and filmand the Americans kind of gave
it to me.
That coincided with me notdirecting, not going out, not
being part of the Britishindustry anymore, and I haven't
worked in Britain on anythingsince then, apart from audio
obviously.
So I'm not part of thatindustry.
(19:33):
I don't know anyone in thatindustry anymore.
I don't have anything to dowith it at all.
There's a movie, I think amovie filming on the street
outside today and there's loadsof people as big as I don't know
what it is, but there's loadsof people and I I knew the stunt
guy, but I recognized him andbut I didn't recognize.
It was like weird I'm.
I I'm walking past a big movieor TV set and I no longer know
(19:57):
any of the people here.
So there's a kind of hermitage.
That's a word, isn't it?
I don't know if it relates tohermits, to that.
I got to close the world out.
I got to work for people on theother side of the world who are
on a different time zone, whonever bother me, and I get to
just imagine stuff now.
Finbarre Snarey (20:18):
So the hermitings really worked out
actually, it sounds like you'vebeen given that creative freedom
to explore countless numbers ofworlds.
I mean, I'm just looking at theKickstarter that you've got for
Crowley here and lookingthrough the stretch goals, as
you were saying previously, ofall of the additional things
that you want to do from here on.
It's almost like you'rethinking five, ten moves ahead.
Julian Simpson (20:40):
Yes, or being greedy, but it's um, it's well
actually kind of the oppositeactually, because the smart
thing to do would have just beento have the goal and then keep
the change, but it didn't,because I I imagined that I was
like what if we get to double?
What if we get to 150 000pounds on this kickstarter?
(21:00):
And I was like I could pocket abunch of money, which would be
really handy.
But I was like, actually, I'drather make two more shows
though.
Yeah, I've got those ideas andI'd rather do that.
Otherwise, I'm just going tospend money on stuff I don't
need and then dream about showsI never made.
Finbarre Snarey (21:18):
And looking through the cast list of people
that you work with, it's clearthat you have this marvellous
rapport with the.
The cast list of people thatyou work with, it's clear that
you have this marvelous rapportwith the same cast again and
again and keep knocking it outthe park again and again.
So very lazy at casting.
I don't like new people.
Fair enough, right.
Last card.
Oh, are we there already?
We're there already wow, okayoh, a fabulous one to end on.
Julian Simpson (21:44):
A very positive one.
I never quite know what itmeans and it's always a strength
, we should probably say forpeople listening at home.
I'm never quite.
It's a card I always driftacross when I'm looking through
my decks because I've alwaysseen it as a slightly toxic
(22:06):
attribute, if that makes sense,but strength I'm not sure.
I think, yeah, it's weird.
I've always I've beenambivalent about it.
I've always found it to be.
It's probably a good trait andit's probably got an awful lot
of good aspects to it, but italways feels like a slightly
toxic one.
Finbarre Snarey (22:25):
I'm just going to have another look at this
card, because this may be thefirst time I've ever pulled this
one from the Thoth.
Just bear with me.
Interesting, yeah, because MrCrowley, the trickster, the
mischievous scamp that he is,has switched out Because this is
what confused me, because I wasthinking, hang on on the Thoth
deck.
Switched out because this iswhat confused me, because I was
thinking, hang on on the thothdeck.
(22:46):
Strength has been changed tolust, so sadly, you didn't get
the lust card today.
So what you have here is aminor arcana that now takes the
strength role.
Oh, that is a very interestingturn of events, okay, so what is
the?
What should the?
What would it be on the minorarcana?
So the major arcana representsspirit, and then you have, say,
(23:06):
the wands that represent fireand you've got the swords that
represent air and this strengthcard of unabashed power, the
nine of wands.
This is a card of it's likeenergy, rapid motion, it's
vivacity in all of its formsokay it's okay, I quite like
that.
Julian Simpson (23:22):
That's how I've been feeling at the moment with
the kickstarter.
Actually, it feels like you're.
It's a very different pace ofworking to me from writing doing
a kickstarter, where you'rejust, especially when you're
doing it solo.
It's a completely solo effort.
So it's apart from I've gotartists and people working on
things, but uh, the the runningof the kick Kickstarter and the
(23:43):
setting up of it has been acompletely solo effort and it's
a very different job than what Inormally do and it feels a lot
faster than I'm used to work, inthe sense of I don't mean fast,
as in I write quite quickly,but I mean it's much faster
moving.
There's not much time to think.
Once you hit start, you're justcounting down and you're trying
(24:07):
to get the money in while thetime is running out and you're
doing everything you can to kindof keep the balls in the air
and to keep it going.
And it's a very differentmindset to writing, which is
quite kind of sedate, and sothat kind of vivacity thing does
kind of feel like where I am atthe moment.
Finbarre Snarey (24:26):
Yeah, I mean, you've got this geometric
lattice, so I'm applyingdirection and purpose, so
there's no confusion there.
My question for you is going tobe when inspiration strikes,
how do you capture and act uponit swiftly?
How do you bottle thatlightning?
Julian Simpson (24:40):
Oh, do you mean physically, Like, literally like
, because I use a whole bunch ofdifferent note techniques and
notebooks and stuff like that.
But that's all kind of boring.
I think lightning doesn't ever,very rarely does lightning
strike in a usefully completeway.
Finbarre Snarey (24:58):
Is it more like a bit torrent of lightning?
Is it more like a bit torrentof?
Julian Simpson (25:02):
Lightning.
So what you're really lookingfor is kind of three separate
lightning strikes over a periodof time that carve something out
Because a single lightningstrike?
So, for the example, I wrotedown an idea the other day what
if there was an occult or awicker group that works like the
(25:23):
Hacker Collective Anonymous?
I like it as a what if I reallylike it, but I have nothing to
do with it until at leastanother one or two lightning
strikes comes.
That makes you go.
Oh, that's the context for that.
I mean, I have, you know, I hada lightning strike a while back
and wrote a movie in eight days, which is a feat I've been
(25:45):
desperately trying to replicateever since but haven't been able
to, and that just kind of cameto me kind of fully formed.
But most of the time you'regetting bits and pieces of ideas
and so I tend to write them alldown or put them all somewhere,
so that when another one goesin it might connect up something
that's already there and kindof you know, form some kind of a
matrix that you can work with,because otherwise, you know, you
(26:07):
don't tend to go.
I mean, I wrote a piece aboutthe three episodes of a show
called Mythos that we made priorto the Lovecraft Investigations
.
Within mythos there was Nicolawalker played Mary Lair who was
a, the ghost of a french nun.
Uh and uh, there was in thefirst episode.
(26:28):
She was accompanied by a guycalled Jonathan Hicks who was a
podcaster.
Now Jonathan hicks as apodcaster was a very good
character.
That for that first episode.
But when the BBC said can weget a couple more?
Didn't have any real skill setfor him to carry him through two
more episodes.
So I at the beginning ofepisode two sent him back in
time and killed him in the 17thcentury.
(26:49):
But Jonathan Hicks becameMatthew Hayward in the Lovecraft
investigations because the ideaof a podcaster in that world
was really useful but it wasn'tright for mythos.
But it became the Lovecraftinvestigations and then in
episode three of Mythos, parkerPhoebe Fox's character who
replaced Jonathan Hicks inepisode two, takes on the
(27:09):
personality of a secret agent,of a Modesty Blaze style secret
agent.
She's a chaos witch and shealways brings on a new
personality when she's going toa mission and she brought on the
Modesty Blaze personality.
I'd always had a slight thingabout wanting to do Modesty
Blaze for audio.
It's been done.
But I wanted to do it becauseother people doing it's not
interesting.
And I always wanted Phoebe toplay that part but we were never
(27:31):
going to get it off the ground.
But when I heard her do that inMythos 3, that's what led to
Clara Page and the Aldrich Kempstories.
The ideas build and come out ofeach other if you let them.
Finbarre Snarey (27:43):
It's not so much lightning strikes, as you
know, a kind of flow ofassociations I mean you rattling
through all of thoseconnections there is, uh is
quite the thing.
Julian Simpson (27:53):
And to retain all of that came from.
Finbarre Snarey (27:57):
So going on to the, the technical way that you
put all this down.
I'm always, always up for tipson techniques or if there's any
particular software that you use.
So how do you capture?
Julian Simpson (28:07):
These.
Well, I've actually I've justupgraded my software to a
notebook, which I've nowrealized I prefer to any kind of
software.
Finbarre Snarey (28:16):
Well, I mean it's ultra HD, it's always on.
Julian Simpson (28:19):
Always on, it's really easy.
I had a remarkable tablet whichI have somewhere on, if always
on, it's really easy.
I had a remarkable tablet whichI have somewhere which seemed
like a really good hybridversion of a notebook and a
piece of software slash hardware, yeah, but you open it up and
then you have to turn it on andthen you have to enter your
passcode and then you have tofind the notebook that you were
writing on, by which point themoment's gone yeah moment's gone
, so I use obsidian a lot, I usea lot and I never quite know
(28:44):
which I prefer.
And that is really my problem isthat my problem with my
productivity tools at the momenton the computer is very much
one of.
I remember typing that.
Where did I put it Actually?
Finbarre Snarey (29:02):
Now I like notebooks and I like my manual
typewriters sorry, a manualtypewriter, manual typewriters
1950s, specifically 1950s, 1960smanual typewriters I mean great
for photo shoots and I knowthat you're very partial to
taking the very, very good snapbut an actual typewriter, just
(29:22):
to be working typewriter.
I'll tell you why?
Julian Simpson (29:24):
Because when you , it's a technique I use when
I'm stuck, one of the on ascript or audio thing or
whatever.
One of the techniques I use isto wind a sheet of blank paper
into a manual typewriter, getthe computer keyboard out of the
way, yeah, and usually startwith the words I'm stuck.
Stuck because and keep going.
(29:44):
You can't backspace with atypewriter.
I mean you can, but it'snonsense and you can't delete,
you can't go backwards, so youhave to move forwards.
There's no point in analyzingwhat you've written because
you're just bashing it out, anda manual typewriter requires
much more physical effort than aMac keyboard.
(30:04):
So it's actually becomes quitea different form of working.
It's slower because you'repecking away at keys, they're
heavier and you can't gobackwards.
Finbarre Snarey (30:16):
So everything's intentional.
Julian Simpson (30:18):
Everything's intentional and I find that the
stuff that spills out there on asheet of paper that you know
full well you're just going toscrew up and throw away when
you've got what you need out ofit, can be really useful.
You stumble onto things.
It's the typing of going for arun or something.
It's a change of state.
Finbarre Snarey (30:41):
We've reached the end of our time.
Julian Simpson, it's been anabsolute pleasure and a delight
having on Tarot Interviews.
I wish you luck thank you verymuch.
Julian Simpson (30:49):
I wish you luck with crowley and um, what you're
going to be doing for the restof the evening haven't decided
yet daughter's gone to the pubbecause she's older than yours,
and I think my wife's just comeback from some kind of PhD
gathering, so I'm not surethere's a decent chance that
I'll be watching Elementary.
Finbarre Snarey (31:07):
Excellent, good choice.
Julian Simpson (31:08):
Thank you
Finbarre Snarey (31:11):
That was Julian Simpson on Tarot Interviews, a
revealing conversation with oneof the most distinctive voices
in contemporary audio drama.
From the shadowy corners of theLovecraft investigations to his
ongoing explorations of mythand belief, Julian's
storytelling invites us toquestion what we think we know,
to explore more of his work,including updates on upcoming
(31:32):
projects, visitpleasantgreencouk and, as always
, you can find the fulltranscript, guest links and
today's episode on Spotify,Apple Podcasts and
tarotinterviews.
com.
Thanks for listening.
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