July 1, 2025 • 23 mins
Beth Sage Phung is a nonbinary, first generation Asian-American writer and voice actor. They have poetry published in the Boats Against the Current magazine and the second Poets Underground Anthology, as well as various pieces posted on their Instagram account. Their voice acting talents can be heard most notably as Cassius in the audio drama Syntax.
Their writing highlights their personal experience with their identity and interpersonal relationships, as well as their time spent working as a teacher in American junior and high schools. When not working at their day job, they find moments here and there to put pen to paper.
Tarot Interviews credits
- Host and producer: Finbarre Snarey
- Theme music composer: Amelia Lawn
- Additional music: Nicola Snarey
- Cover art: Rein G
If you're curious about the cards we use and want to find out more, visit our Tarot Interviews podcast page.
Disclaimer: The Tarot Interviews podcast is intended for entertainment purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the hosts and guests are their own and do not constitute professional, legal, financial, medical, or psychological advice. Listeners are encouraged to seek guidance from qualified professionals where appropriate.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Finbarre Snarey (00:31):
Welcome back to Tarot Interviews with Finn.
Today we're thrilled tointroduce Sage Beth Fung, a
creative force behind TwinStrangers Productions.
Sage as a writer, director ofthe upcoming audio drama Rites
of Descendancy, a young adultfantasy buildings Roman drama
that follows Leonardo as heapproaches her 20th birthday and
participates in a ceremonyknown as the Rights of
(00:53):
Descendancy.
Additionally, sage voices thecharacter Cassius Thatcher in
the science fiction horror audiodrama Syntax about a team of
explorers investigatingmysterious artifacts.
So let's find out more aboutSage, her creative journey,
inspirations and the magic shebrings to her work.
Sage Fung, welcome to TarotInterviews.
(01:13):
How has your weekend been sofar?
Beth Sage Phung (01:16):
So far.
I played Dungeons and Dragonsyesterday and the day before
that, and so I have beenrecovering from a cold, so if I
sound a little stuffy Iapologize, but otherwise it's
been great, very restful weekend.
I work a nine to five, mondaythrough Friday, so it's nice to
enjoy my weekends.
Finbarre Snarey (01:35):
And your D&D campaign.
What kind of character have youbeen playing?
Recently, one campaign I play asea elf cleric and in the other
campaign I play a high elfpaladin, of which is the god of
death bless you and you've beenunder the weather and you're
(01:56):
rocking these two charactersthat should, I believe, on no
dndx, but have some kind ofhealing magic.
Beth Sage Phung (02:02):
Yes, it's quite ironic.
I'll have to leave something onmy altar for Apollo later, for
sure.
Finbarre Snarey (02:10):
Yes, my wife has started DMing our games.
We've started with theBeginner's Pack with D&D and it
is such a lovely experience tosit around with the family, the
children just unleashing chaosand unpredictable mayhem.
Beth Sage Phung (02:26):
It's what D&D was made for to make them pull
their hair out and for everybodyto have a great time excellent.
Finbarre Snarey (02:31):
well, I have your cards in my hand here today
, so what we're going to do isshuffle them, split the deck and
you tell me when to stop.
So when you're ready, here arethe cards, and they have been
riffle shuffled with an inch oftheir life, ten riffle shuffles,
and I'm just going to overhandleisurely and tell me when to
stop.
Beth Sage Phung (02:51):
We'll stop there.
Finbarre Snarey (02:53):
There.
Okay, this is one that I'vebeen seeing rather recently the
Page of Wands.
What are you feeling when yousee that card?
Beth Sage Phung (03:06):
Well, I'm surprised because wands usually
don't show their face around me.
They don't usually make theirway towards me.
Usually, whenever I pull formyself in tarot, I always end up
with um swords.
So okay, it's nice to seesomething different, and I'm
also surprised by the page.
Finbarre Snarey (03:21):
I mean, what vibes are you getting from this
one?
I would say hopeful, I mean itis classically the kind of fresh
inspirations, new beginnings,sparks of creativity.
It's all very optimistic and ofcourse you've got the
enthusiasm, the curiosity,desire to explore new ideas and
ventures Right.
Beth Sage Phung (03:54):
So if I was to make that into a question, what
new skills are you currentlyexploring when it comes to
creative projects?
It's been interesting kind ofgoing behind the scenes and
making my own show, so it's beenquite a process of learning and
it's definitely a learningcurve.
But I like to learn new things,so I always like to add more
(04:16):
skills under the tool belt.
I don't want to call myself ajack of all trades, master of
none, but maybe a master of some.
Finbarre Snarey (04:23):
Okay, which platform are you using to do
your audio editing on?
Beth Sage Phung (04:27):
We usually use Adobe, but I personally record
on Reaper.
Finbarre Snarey (04:33):
Now, I've yet to try Reaper out.
Is it any good?
Beth Sage Phung (04:35):
I like it.
It's a bit of a learning curve.
At first it kind of throws alot of features at you, but I
followed the setup tutorial thatthey provide on their website
and it worked pretty well.
And then you kind of adjust theaudio levels for your
microphone and then, once you'rethere, you're pretty set.
Finbarre Snarey (04:53):
So it's a bit of a setup the first and only
editor I've really got to gripswith was Adobe Audition, and I
think I used it back in I don'twant to say 2005, but I think
we're talking 2005.
And I've just been with itsince.
It's been changing through asit's evolved.
One of these days I need to getout of old habits and, as I say
, something like Reaper soundslike a good one to explore.
Beth Sage Phung (05:16):
It is.
It's not bad.
I will say it's not bad at all.
Finbarre Snarey (05:19):
When it comes to the audio productions that
you've been working on, whatkind of challenges have you
found when using that platform?
Beth Sage Phung (05:27):
I would say one of the challenges is having to
know what it sounds like whenyou're recording, because it has
the option of giving you theautomatic feedback so you can
hear yourself as you'rerecording.
But that really messes with me,so I can't hear myself when I'm
(05:48):
speaking.
I'll end up slowing down andlistening to myself speak.
So I tend to close that off andthen so I'll disable that
feature and then I'll record,but then I won't know really if
the recording is going well,technically speaking.
So I have to stop and make sureand check, and so usually when
(06:09):
recording we'll end up doingmaybe three or four takes of
each line just in case.
So my recording sessionsusually end up being several
hours.
Finbarre Snarey (06:18):
It's funny, you should say, about the um, that
effect of disrupting yourthoughts and when you hear just
a bit of your own voice.
Because I I know that for alittle while.
There was an app that you couldget I think it was on android
phones, probably on iphones aswell and what it would do is it
would put a delay, it wouldrecord whatever audio was around
the phone, put a three seconddelay on and then broadcast it
(06:39):
for the speaker.
And if you put that on during ameeting or if somebody was
giving some kind of publicspeech, it would stop them in
their tracks, because it'salmost impossible for your brain
to um right, almost kind oflike change the wheel on the car
while it's in motion.
You know yes, it's.
Beth Sage Phung (06:53):
it's very disruptive to the way that you
process audio and I have adhd,so I already have audio
processing issues in general, soit's already difficult for me
to really focus on hearingthings and do speaking at the
same time.
It's interesting I definitelyhave to listen to music that
(07:14):
doesn't have words in it whenI'm trying to focus on writing
something.
Otherwise, I'll start focusingon what I'm hearing.
Finbarre Snarey (07:20):
And as editing is notoriously such a such a
focused activity, how do you getthrough?
I mean, it's something I finddifficult myself, but do you um,
I don't know maybe stim whileyou're working?
Uh, do you have to wait forthose elusive moments of hyper
focus, and that's the day youedit?
How does it work for you?
Beth Sage Phung (07:38):
honestly, yeah, it's more the latter.
I have to really get in themood and focus for it, otherwise
I will immediately get bored,because when it comes to audio
editing, as I'm sure you know,you can't listen to anything
else while you're doing itbecause you're listening to
audio that you have to edit andcut and adjust.
For my brain, it's very boringand very tedious, and so it
(08:02):
doesn't give me that dopaminehit that I really need to find
it enjoyable.
It's definitely something thatI really have to kind of lock in
and focus on and really want todo it, and usually it ends up
being closer to some type ofdeadline, as people with ADHD
tend to be.
We tend to be masterprocrastinators, so we wait
(08:24):
until the last minute and thenwe do it all at once and then
we're like all right, it's doneand it's sort of obligation
feels like misery.
Finbarre Snarey (08:33):
My wife almost certainly has ADHD, and I may
possibly as well, and I findthat so.
For example, if I'm working ona bit of audio, just even having
a deck of tarot cards in myhand, something to play with,
something to mess with while I'mdoing it, really does help.
I think the solution for me isto actually get my daughter on
board and sit with her and, yeah, we could learn how to edit and
(08:53):
then delegate to her.
I think that's probably thebest way forward.
Beth Sage Phung (09:04):
Teenagers are so interesting in how absorbed
and enthusiastic they get aboutsomething that you want to show
them.
I used to be a high schoolteacher and I taught one year of
eighth year eight so before Iworked at my nine to five, that
was what I was doing.
I absolutely adored workingwith my teens because they were
so gung ho about what they werepassionate about and learning
(09:24):
new skills and learning newthings that were interesting to
them.
So that was something that Ireally enjoyed about teaching
was that you got to see thatspark in their eyes.
Finbarre Snarey (09:34):
I'm seeing that spark in your eyes right now.
I mean, obviously I'm seeingyou over video right now.
You've just lit up as soon asyou're talking about this.
Beth Sage Phung (09:41):
Yes, I absolutely adored teaching.
What I did not like was thebureaucracy of public education
in America.
It's a lot of red tape andhoops to jump through and things
always change, and the firstyear that I started teaching was
the year everything shut down,so it was a lot all at once, and
(10:06):
we liked to say that our secondfavorite F word was flexible,
so that was kind of our mottofor that year.
Finbarre Snarey (10:13):
Have you been tempted back?
Beth Sage Phung (10:16):
No.
Finbarre Snarey (10:17):
No, fair enough .
Beth Sage Phung (10:17):
I make exactly the same amount of money doing
far less work.
Finbarre Snarey (10:22):
Right?
Well, let's see what card twohas in store.
So we're going to keep that onecard in the tray and back to
the shuffling, right?
So let's see what we get.
Now, as before, just tell mewhen to stop.
Beth Sage Phung (10:34):
Let's stop there.
Finbarre Snarey (10:36):
There, okay, right, the seven of pentacles.
Beth Sage Phung (10:45):
Pentacles always find their way to me.
I am a Capricorn.
Finbarre Snarey (10:48):
Does this feel like your current situation at
the moment?
Out of interest.
Beth Sage Phung (10:53):
I mean looking at that card in particular.
Yes, I'm always looking at myfinances.
I look at my bank accountstatements, perhaps every single
day, at least once a day.
My boyfriend and I he's also acapricorn, so we're both very,
(11:14):
very focused on our budgets andmaking sure that we don't make
the same financial mistakes thatour parents made.
Uh, so we both grew up rather Iwon't say poor, because we had
rich childhood experiences, butit was definitely tight
financially.
(11:34):
So as we've gotten older, we'vedefinitely wanted to prepare
our future a lot better and so,financially speaking, we
definitely are very kind ofcontemplative about every
purchase we make.
We tend not to splurge onthings we don't really treat
ourselves.
(11:55):
So we've gotten in a betterhabit of being more okay with
those type of things of likeokay, we can afford this and we
can do this, and we won't be putonto the street just because we
go to a nice dinner, right,we've definitely got that kind
of looking at things andcontemplating and definitely
(12:17):
counting what's in our hand.
Finbarre Snarey (12:19):
Yeah, I think with the people I know in my
life who are Capricorns my wifeas well I feel that when, as a
human being, you're rolled up asa character, the trait, the
super ability, the perk of beinga Capricorn is the ability to
just own spreadsheets, to be thegod of Excel.
Beth Sage Phung (12:39):
We are planners , we take a look at all the data
and we make an informeddecision.
Capricorns are funny enough,the kind of elder quote unquote
of the zodiacs, whereas Ariesare kind of the babies In my
boyfriend's big three.
His moon sign is Aries and sohe brings a little more
(13:02):
excitement to that in thataspect.
So it's nice because it's anice counterbalance to my
Scorpio moon.
Finbarre Snarey (13:08):
Of course, my wife doesn't believe a single
word of astrology.
She's far too sensible and verytypically Capricorn.
Okay.
So seven of pentacles thatwe've got.
It's a card of patience,reflection, rewards of hard work
, and it's a card ofperseverance, although the
growth may not be immediate.
So my question would be whatlong-term goals are you
(13:29):
currently cultivating in yourcareer?
Beth Sage Phung (13:31):
I would like to work on another poetry
collection.
So I have one poetry collectionthat I did in college.
It was called Rebellious inNature and it was a chapbook
which is just a small collectionof poetry that you kind of
self-publish.
It was part of a class project.
(13:52):
So the other group in the classwere working on a project for
editing and production of achapbook, and so they needed a
writer for it who had acollection of work, and so I
offered up my collection of work.
So that was one that I did.
I would like to make another atsome point, likely called Daddy
Issues, because I have severalof those.
(14:14):
The title is a work in progress, but it's on the list but not
set in stone.
Finbarre Snarey (14:19):
So I need to ask her what tend to be the
themes within your poetry.
Beth Sage Phung (14:23):
I'm very curious only daughter of an
immigrant, and the expectationsof Asian American women, as well
(14:44):
as kind of the approach that aperson takes with a hybrid
identity, which in college oneof the things that my literature
and writing degree focused onwas representation and diversity
and how that portrays itself inliterature throughout time.
Hybrid identity kind of issomething that is near and dear
(15:05):
to me, because I am half white,half Vietnamese, and so it's
kind of not white enough butalso not Asian enough.
So it's kind of figuring outwhere your place in the world is
, as well as being a non-binaryAFAB person, especially in an
Asian family, is one of thosethings.
Growing up with depression andanxiety, so kind of struggling
(15:28):
with those feelings while in anenvironment that isn't really
supportive of that, and inparticular, the person that
really wasn't the mostsupportive was my father, so a
lot of it has to do with him andunderstanding one where he
comes from, as well as dealingwith my own personal anger and
(15:51):
spite towards my childhoodexperiences.
I always say that I ammotivated most by spite and
second by passion.
It's definitely a drivingfactor for me in my poetry is
kind of my own self-therapy ofworking through those emotions.
Finbarre Snarey (16:09):
Have your family members read any of your
poetry yet.
Beth Sage Phung (16:12):
Yes, my mom was a fan of my poetry.
I don't speak to her too muchanymore.
I've kind of gone non-contactwith my family going on year
five now, and it's been aninteresting experience being in
my 20s and not speaking to myfamily and not having that
support system.
But at the same time I'm alsokind of better off for it and I
(16:35):
wouldn't be where I am now andhave the experiences and the
joys that I have now if I didn'tdo that.
So I didn't have their supportin the first place.
So now I'm kind of goingwithout it anyway and I've
adapted and spread my wings inways that I wouldn't have been
able to had I been still there.
Finbarre Snarey (16:55):
If I had a glass of wine in my hand, I'd be
toasting to that.
Thank you so much for sharingthat very intimate glimpse into
your family there.
If I had a glass of wine in myhand, I'd be toasting to that.
Thank you so much for sharingthat very intimate glimpse into
your family there.
We have card three just callingto us yeah Right, are you ready
?
Of course, okay.
So let's see what the finalcard is.
Beth Sage Phung (17:12):
Let's stop there.
Finbarre Snarey (17:21):
The Chariots.
Beth Sage Phung (17:22):
Oh boy, this one always shows up for me.
The Chariot is such a pest.
Finbarre Snarey (17:28):
Yeah, part comet, part rollercoaster.
What are you getting from thisone?
Beth Sage Phung (17:32):
The Chariot's always about choices and the
paths in front of you and kindof seeing what's in front of you
and making the decision to gowith one of those choices and
committing to that choice.
So that's always how I'veinterpreted that card.
Finbarre Snarey (17:49):
Yeah, no, absolutely Same here.
Right, Okay.
So what the chariot is askingme to ask you is can you
describe a time wheredetermination has led you to
overcome a significant challenge?
Beth Sage Phung (18:04):
I would say definitely.
When I decided to move out ofmy parents' house, I was 24,
which is rather old to still beliving at home.
In my opinion, but also in theAmerican economy, that's kind of
the norm these days.
It's just simply more costeffective.
Finbarre Snarey (18:20):
Was this relatively recent.
Beth Sage Phung (18:22):
I am 28 currently.
I had to think about that for amoment, so it was relatively
recently, yeah, but when I movedout, I really had to commit to
that decision because I knewwhat consequences would come
with that.
Meaning that I knew.
(18:43):
No, go ahead, go ahead.
I see a question in yours wasthat?
Finbarre Snarey (18:46):
was that during the pandemic?
It was, I believe yes yeah,yeah, because I'm thinking we
had a lockdown.
Uh, this was around about March2020, which feels like
yesterday yeah, so.
I imagine it was somethingsimilar for you guys.
Beth Sage Phung (19:01):
It definitely was.
It was around that same time,yeah.
So it was definitely a lotgoing on and I knew that there
would be this kind of explosionof consequences that I had to
prepare myself to deal with if Icommitted to this.
But I knew that it wassomething that I needed to do
(19:24):
for my own personal growth and Iknew what sacrifices I would
have to make, in particular, myrelationship with my dad.
I didn't expect it to be acomplete cutoff, but he was kind
of the one that did that.
So once that happened, I kindof dusted my hands of it and
that was it really.
(19:44):
It definitely helped me matureand it helped me come to terms
with being okay with facingconsequences when they give me
really bad anxiety.
If you're going to do it eventhough you're scared, do it
scared.
That's kind of one of thethings that I've really learned
(20:05):
is just do it scared, and sothat's really helped me
experience a lot of new thingsthat I don't think I would have
otherwise.
I was definitely in what I wouldcall a gilded cage growing up
what I would call a gilded cagegrowing up.
So it was nice.
It wasn't an awful home.
I had a roof over my head I hadthe essentials of what it takes
(20:26):
to raise a child and keep themalive, but as far as the
emotional needs as a child Iwasn't having those met and I
wasn't encouraged to reallyexplore my creative means.
So I don't really think I wouldhave been a voice actor or
written my own show or writtenmy own poetry with as much
(20:48):
freedom as I would haveotherwise.
Finbarre Snarey (20:50):
So I need to ask how did you draw upon that
emotional strength and thatdetermination to make that
change?
Beth Sage Phung (20:56):
I think it really had to do with one,
knowing that I had the supportof other people so my friends
and my boyfriend.
I looked for support outside ofmy blood and that was a really
a really big driving factor inmaking that decision and I think
(21:19):
a part of me just had to justkind of come to terms with
breaking it off and being okaywith that.
I never really had a reallystrong positive emotional
attachment to my dad, so cuttingthat connection from him wasn't
the worst thing in the world tome to do, because there wasn't
(21:40):
really a whole lot there tobegin with.
It was definitely one of thosethings where after you had to do
a cord cutting ceremony andafter that you're kind of done
with it.
So I did one for myself, cutthe cord with my father, and
after that it was kind of justdust off your hands and move on.
Time keeps going.
Finbarre Snarey (22:02):
Yeah, I'm awed that in this time of I mean then
back in 2020, it was a time ofturbulence, of change.
We had no way of knowing wherethe world was going to go, and
the idea of life reaching such akind of like almost like a kind
of an event horizon, a criticalmass, that you have found the
bravery to do that, I found thatutterly inspiring.
Thank you so much for sharingthat thank you.
Beth Sage Phung (22:24):
Uh, it was definitely.
It was definitely a turningpoint in my life.
I will definitely say that mylife trajectory would certainly
be different if I hadn't madethat choice, but I'm glad that I
did it and I encourage othersto do it if they're in similar
situations, because you'rebetter off for it.
Finbarre Snarey (22:43):
Absolutely Right, Sage Fung.
Thank you so much for joiningus on Tarot Interviews today.
Beth Sage Phung (22:47):
Thank you for having me.
I had a good time.
Finbarre Snarey (22:49):
That wraps up our conversation with Beth Sage
Fung of Twin StrangersProductions.
We hope you enjoyed exploringher wonderfully frank and
uplifting interview, and don'tforget to follow us, where you
get your podcasts, for links toSage's incredible work.
My name is Finn.
Thanks for tuning in and untilnext time, keep exploring the
stories that inspire you.
Welcome back to Tarot Interviews with Finn.
Today we're thrilled tointroduce Sage Beth Fung, a
creative force behind TwinStrangers Productions.
Sage as a writer, director ofthe upcoming audio drama Rites
of Descendancy, a young adultfantasy buildings Roman drama
that follows Leonardo as heapproaches her 20th birthday and
participates in a ceremonyknown as the Rights of
(00:53):
Descendancy.
Additionally, sage voices thecharacter Cassius Thatcher in
the science fiction horror audiodrama Syntax about a team of
explorers investigatingmysterious artifacts.
So let's find out more aboutSage, her creative journey,
inspirations and the magic shebrings to her work.
Sage Fung, welcome to TarotInterviews.
(01:13):
How has your weekend been sofar?
Beth Sage Phung (01:16):
So far.
I played Dungeons and Dragonsyesterday and the day before
that, and so I have beenrecovering from a cold, so if I
sound a little stuffy Iapologize, but otherwise it's
been great, very restful weekend.
I work a nine to five, mondaythrough Friday, so it's nice to
enjoy my weekends.
Finbarre Snarey (01:35):
And your D&D campaign.
What kind of character have youbeen playing?
Recently, one campaign I play asea elf cleric and in the other
campaign I play a high elfpaladin, of which is the god of
death bless you and you've beenunder the weather and you're
(01:56):
rocking these two charactersthat should, I believe, on no
dndx, but have some kind ofhealing magic.
Beth Sage Phung (02:02):
Yes, it's quite ironic.
I'll have to leave something onmy altar for Apollo later, for
sure.
Finbarre Snarey (02:10):
Yes, my wife has started DMing our games.
We've started with theBeginner's Pack with D&D and it
is such a lovely experience tosit around with the family, the
children just unleashing chaosand unpredictable mayhem.
Beth Sage Phung (02:26):
It's what D&D was made for to make them pull
their hair out and for everybodyto have a great time excellent.
Finbarre Snarey (02:31):
well, I have your cards in my hand here today
, so what we're going to do isshuffle them, split the deck and
you tell me when to stop.
So when you're ready, here arethe cards, and they have been
riffle shuffled with an inch oftheir life, ten riffle shuffles,
and I'm just going to overhandleisurely and tell me when to
stop.
Beth Sage Phung (02:51):
We'll stop there.
Finbarre Snarey (02:53):
There.
Okay, this is one that I'vebeen seeing rather recently the
Page of Wands.
What are you feeling when yousee that card?
Beth Sage Phung (03:06):
Well, I'm surprised because wands usually
don't show their face around me.
They don't usually make theirway towards me.
Usually, whenever I pull formyself in tarot, I always end up
with um swords.
So okay, it's nice to seesomething different, and I'm
also surprised by the page.
Finbarre Snarey (03:21):
I mean, what vibes are you getting from this
one?
I would say hopeful, I mean itis classically the kind of fresh
inspirations, new beginnings,sparks of creativity.
It's all very optimistic and ofcourse you've got the
enthusiasm, the curiosity,desire to explore new ideas and
ventures Right.
Beth Sage Phung (03:54):
So if I was to make that into a question, what
new skills are you currentlyexploring when it comes to
creative projects?
It's been interesting kind ofgoing behind the scenes and
making my own show, so it's beenquite a process of learning and
it's definitely a learningcurve.
But I like to learn new things,so I always like to add more
(04:16):
skills under the tool belt.
I don't want to call myself ajack of all trades, master of
none, but maybe a master of some.
Finbarre Snarey (04:23):
Okay, which platform are you using to do
your audio editing on?
Beth Sage Phung (04:27):
We usually use Adobe, but I personally record
on Reaper.
Finbarre Snarey (04:33):
Now, I've yet to try Reaper out.
Is it any good?
Beth Sage Phung (04:35):
I like it.
It's a bit of a learning curve.
At first it kind of throws alot of features at you, but I
followed the setup tutorial thatthey provide on their website
and it worked pretty well.
And then you kind of adjust theaudio levels for your
microphone and then, once you'rethere, you're pretty set.
Finbarre Snarey (04:53):
So it's a bit of a setup the first and only
editor I've really got to gripswith was Adobe Audition, and I
think I used it back in I don'twant to say 2005, but I think
we're talking 2005.
And I've just been with itsince.
It's been changing through asit's evolved.
One of these days I need to getout of old habits and, as I say
, something like Reaper soundslike a good one to explore.
Beth Sage Phung (05:16):
It is.
It's not bad.
I will say it's not bad at all.
Finbarre Snarey (05:19):
When it comes to the audio productions that
you've been working on, whatkind of challenges have you
found when using that platform?
Beth Sage Phung (05:27):
I would say one of the challenges is having to
know what it sounds like whenyou're recording, because it has
the option of giving you theautomatic feedback so you can
hear yourself as you'rerecording.
But that really messes with me,so I can't hear myself when I'm
(05:48):
speaking.
I'll end up slowing down andlistening to myself speak.
So I tend to close that off andthen so I'll disable that
feature and then I'll record,but then I won't know really if
the recording is going well,technically speaking.
So I have to stop and make sureand check, and so usually when
(06:09):
recording we'll end up doingmaybe three or four takes of
each line just in case.
So my recording sessionsusually end up being several
hours.
Finbarre Snarey (06:18):
It's funny, you should say, about the um, that
effect of disrupting yourthoughts and when you hear just
a bit of your own voice.
Because I I know that for alittle while.
There was an app that you couldget I think it was on android
phones, probably on iphones aswell and what it would do is it
would put a delay, it wouldrecord whatever audio was around
the phone, put a three seconddelay on and then broadcast it
(06:39):
for the speaker.
And if you put that on during ameeting or if somebody was
giving some kind of publicspeech, it would stop them in
their tracks, because it'salmost impossible for your brain
to um right, almost kind oflike change the wheel on the car
while it's in motion.
You know yes, it's.
Beth Sage Phung (06:53):
it's very disruptive to the way that you
process audio and I have adhd,so I already have audio
processing issues in general, soit's already difficult for me
to really focus on hearingthings and do speaking at the
same time.
It's interesting I definitelyhave to listen to music that
(07:14):
doesn't have words in it whenI'm trying to focus on writing
something.
Otherwise, I'll start focusingon what I'm hearing.
Finbarre Snarey (07:20):
And as editing is notoriously such a such a
focused activity, how do you getthrough?
I mean, it's something I finddifficult myself, but do you um,
I don't know maybe stim whileyou're working?
Uh, do you have to wait forthose elusive moments of hyper
focus, and that's the day youedit?
How does it work for you?
Beth Sage Phung (07:38):
honestly, yeah, it's more the latter.
I have to really get in themood and focus for it, otherwise
I will immediately get bored,because when it comes to audio
editing, as I'm sure you know,you can't listen to anything
else while you're doing itbecause you're listening to
audio that you have to edit andcut and adjust.
For my brain, it's very boringand very tedious, and so it
(08:02):
doesn't give me that dopaminehit that I really need to find
it enjoyable.
It's definitely something thatI really have to kind of lock in
and focus on and really want todo it, and usually it ends up
being closer to some type ofdeadline, as people with ADHD
tend to be.
We tend to be masterprocrastinators, so we wait
(08:24):
until the last minute and thenwe do it all at once and then
we're like all right, it's doneand it's sort of obligation
feels like misery.
Finbarre Snarey (08:33):
My wife almost certainly has ADHD, and I may
possibly as well, and I findthat so.
For example, if I'm working ona bit of audio, just even having
a deck of tarot cards in myhand, something to play with,
something to mess with while I'mdoing it, really does help.
I think the solution for me isto actually get my daughter on
board and sit with her and, yeah, we could learn how to edit and
(08:53):
then delegate to her.
I think that's probably thebest way forward.
Beth Sage Phung (09:04):
Teenagers are so interesting in how absorbed
and enthusiastic they get aboutsomething that you want to show
them.
I used to be a high schoolteacher and I taught one year of
eighth year eight so before Iworked at my nine to five, that
was what I was doing.
I absolutely adored workingwith my teens because they were
so gung ho about what they werepassionate about and learning
(09:24):
new skills and learning newthings that were interesting to
them.
So that was something that Ireally enjoyed about teaching
was that you got to see thatspark in their eyes.
Finbarre Snarey (09:34):
I'm seeing that spark in your eyes right now.
I mean, obviously I'm seeingyou over video right now.
You've just lit up as soon asyou're talking about this.
Beth Sage Phung (09:41):
Yes, I absolutely adored teaching.
What I did not like was thebureaucracy of public education
in America.
It's a lot of red tape andhoops to jump through and things
always change, and the firstyear that I started teaching was
the year everything shut down,so it was a lot all at once, and
(10:06):
we liked to say that our secondfavorite F word was flexible,
so that was kind of our mottofor that year.
Finbarre Snarey (10:13):
Have you been tempted back?
Beth Sage Phung (10:16):
No.
Finbarre Snarey (10:17):
No, fair enough .
Beth Sage Phung (10:17):
I make exactly the same amount of money doing
far less work.
Finbarre Snarey (10:22):
Right?
Well, let's see what card twohas in store.
So we're going to keep that onecard in the tray and back to
the shuffling, right?
So let's see what we get.
Now, as before, just tell mewhen to stop.
Beth Sage Phung (10:34):
Let's stop there.
Finbarre Snarey (10:36):
There, okay, right, the seven of pentacles.
Beth Sage Phung (10:45):
Pentacles always find their way to me.
I am a Capricorn.
Finbarre Snarey (10:48):
Does this feel like your current situation at
the moment?
Out of interest.
Beth Sage Phung (10:53):
I mean looking at that card in particular.
Yes, I'm always looking at myfinances.
I look at my bank accountstatements, perhaps every single
day, at least once a day.
My boyfriend and I he's also acapricorn, so we're both very,
(11:14):
very focused on our budgets andmaking sure that we don't make
the same financial mistakes thatour parents made.
Uh, so we both grew up rather Iwon't say poor, because we had
rich childhood experiences, butit was definitely tight
financially.
(11:34):
So as we've gotten older, we'vedefinitely wanted to prepare
our future a lot better and so,financially speaking, we
definitely are very kind ofcontemplative about every
purchase we make.
We tend not to splurge onthings we don't really treat
ourselves.
(11:55):
So we've gotten in a betterhabit of being more okay with
those type of things of likeokay, we can afford this and we
can do this, and we won't be putonto the street just because we
go to a nice dinner, right,we've definitely got that kind
of looking at things andcontemplating and definitely
(12:17):
counting what's in our hand.
Finbarre Snarey (12:19):
Yeah, I think with the people I know in my
life who are Capricorns my wifeas well I feel that when, as a
human being, you're rolled up asa character, the trait, the
super ability, the perk of beinga Capricorn is the ability to
just own spreadsheets, to be thegod of Excel.
Beth Sage Phung (12:39):
We are planners , we take a look at all the data
and we make an informeddecision.
Capricorns are funny enough,the kind of elder quote unquote
of the zodiacs, whereas Ariesare kind of the babies In my
boyfriend's big three.
His moon sign is Aries and sohe brings a little more
(13:02):
excitement to that in thataspect.
So it's nice because it's anice counterbalance to my
Scorpio moon.
Finbarre Snarey (13:08):
Of course, my wife doesn't believe a single
word of astrology.
She's far too sensible and verytypically Capricorn.
Okay.
So seven of pentacles thatwe've got.
It's a card of patience,reflection, rewards of hard work
, and it's a card ofperseverance, although the
growth may not be immediate.
So my question would be whatlong-term goals are you
(13:29):
currently cultivating in yourcareer?
Beth Sage Phung (13:31):
I would like to work on another poetry
collection.
So I have one poetry collectionthat I did in college.
It was called Rebellious inNature and it was a chapbook
which is just a small collectionof poetry that you kind of
self-publish.
It was part of a class project.
(13:52):
So the other group in the classwere working on a project for
editing and production of achapbook, and so they needed a
writer for it who had acollection of work, and so I
offered up my collection of work.
So that was one that I did.
I would like to make another atsome point, likely called Daddy
Issues, because I have severalof those.
(14:14):
The title is a work in progress, but it's on the list but not
set in stone.
Finbarre Snarey (14:19):
So I need to ask her what tend to be the
themes within your poetry.
Beth Sage Phung (14:23):
I'm very curious only daughter of an
immigrant, and the expectationsof Asian American women, as well
(14:44):
as kind of the approach that aperson takes with a hybrid
identity, which in college oneof the things that my literature
and writing degree focused onwas representation and diversity
and how that portrays itself inliterature throughout time.
Hybrid identity kind of issomething that is near and dear
(15:05):
to me, because I am half white,half Vietnamese, and so it's
kind of not white enough butalso not Asian enough.
So it's kind of figuring outwhere your place in the world is
, as well as being a non-binaryAFAB person, especially in an
Asian family, is one of thosethings.
Growing up with depression andanxiety, so kind of struggling
(15:28):
with those feelings while in anenvironment that isn't really
supportive of that, and inparticular, the person that
really wasn't the mostsupportive was my father, so a
lot of it has to do with him andunderstanding one where he
comes from, as well as dealingwith my own personal anger and
(15:51):
spite towards my childhoodexperiences.
I always say that I ammotivated most by spite and
second by passion.
It's definitely a drivingfactor for me in my poetry is
kind of my own self-therapy ofworking through those emotions.
Finbarre Snarey (16:09):
Have your family members read any of your
poetry yet.
Beth Sage Phung (16:12):
Yes, my mom was a fan of my poetry.
I don't speak to her too muchanymore.
I've kind of gone non-contactwith my family going on year
five now, and it's been aninteresting experience being in
my 20s and not speaking to myfamily and not having that
support system.
But at the same time I'm alsokind of better off for it and I
(16:35):
wouldn't be where I am now andhave the experiences and the
joys that I have now if I didn'tdo that.
So I didn't have their supportin the first place.
So now I'm kind of goingwithout it anyway and I've
adapted and spread my wings inways that I wouldn't have been
able to had I been still there.
Finbarre Snarey (16:55):
If I had a glass of wine in my hand, I'd be
toasting to that.
Thank you so much for sharingthat very intimate glimpse into
your family there.
If I had a glass of wine in myhand, I'd be toasting to that.
Thank you so much for sharingthat very intimate glimpse into
your family there.
We have card three just callingto us yeah Right, are you ready
?
Of course, okay.
So let's see what the finalcard is.
Beth Sage Phung (17:12):
Let's stop there.
Finbarre Snarey (17:21):
The Chariots.
Beth Sage Phung (17:22):
Oh boy, this one always shows up for me.
The Chariot is such a pest.
Finbarre Snarey (17:28):
Yeah, part comet, part rollercoaster.
What are you getting from thisone?
Beth Sage Phung (17:32):
The Chariot's always about choices and the
paths in front of you and kindof seeing what's in front of you
and making the decision to gowith one of those choices and
committing to that choice.
So that's always how I'veinterpreted that card.
Finbarre Snarey (17:49):
Yeah, no, absolutely Same here.
Right, Okay.
So what the chariot is askingme to ask you is can you
describe a time wheredetermination has led you to
overcome a significant challenge?
Beth Sage Phung (18:04):
I would say definitely.
When I decided to move out ofmy parents' house, I was 24,
which is rather old to still beliving at home.
In my opinion, but also in theAmerican economy, that's kind of
the norm these days.
It's just simply more costeffective.
Finbarre Snarey (18:20):
Was this relatively recent.
Beth Sage Phung (18:22):
I am 28 currently.
I had to think about that for amoment, so it was relatively
recently, yeah, but when I movedout, I really had to commit to
that decision because I knewwhat consequences would come
with that.
Meaning that I knew.
(18:43):
No, go ahead, go ahead.
I see a question in yours wasthat?
Finbarre Snarey (18:46):
was that during the pandemic?
It was, I believe yes yeah,yeah, because I'm thinking we
had a lockdown.
Uh, this was around about March2020, which feels like
yesterday yeah, so.
I imagine it was somethingsimilar for you guys.
Beth Sage Phung (19:01):
It definitely was.
It was around that same time,yeah.
So it was definitely a lotgoing on and I knew that there
would be this kind of explosionof consequences that I had to
prepare myself to deal with if Icommitted to this.
But I knew that it wassomething that I needed to do
(19:24):
for my own personal growth and Iknew what sacrifices I would
have to make, in particular, myrelationship with my dad.
I didn't expect it to be acomplete cutoff, but he was kind
of the one that did that.
So once that happened, I kindof dusted my hands of it and
that was it really.
(19:44):
It definitely helped me matureand it helped me come to terms
with being okay with facingconsequences when they give me
really bad anxiety.
If you're going to do it eventhough you're scared, do it
scared.
That's kind of one of thethings that I've really learned
(20:05):
is just do it scared, and sothat's really helped me
experience a lot of new thingsthat I don't think I would have
otherwise.
I was definitely in what I wouldcall a gilded cage growing up
what I would call a gilded cagegrowing up.
So it was nice.
It wasn't an awful home.
I had a roof over my head I hadthe essentials of what it takes
(20:26):
to raise a child and keep themalive, but as far as the
emotional needs as a child Iwasn't having those met and I
wasn't encouraged to reallyexplore my creative means.
So I don't really think I wouldhave been a voice actor or
written my own show or writtenmy own poetry with as much
(20:48):
freedom as I would haveotherwise.
Finbarre Snarey (20:50):
So I need to ask how did you draw upon that
emotional strength and thatdetermination to make that
change?
Beth Sage Phung (20:56):
I think it really had to do with one,
knowing that I had the supportof other people so my friends
and my boyfriend.
I looked for support outside ofmy blood and that was a really
a really big driving factor inmaking that decision and I think
(21:19):
a part of me just had to justkind of come to terms with
breaking it off and being okaywith that.
I never really had a reallystrong positive emotional
attachment to my dad, so cuttingthat connection from him wasn't
the worst thing in the world tome to do, because there wasn't
(21:40):
really a whole lot there tobegin with.
It was definitely one of thosethings where after you had to do
a cord cutting ceremony andafter that you're kind of done
with it.
So I did one for myself, cutthe cord with my father, and
after that it was kind of justdust off your hands and move on.
Time keeps going.
Finbarre Snarey (22:02):
Yeah, I'm awed that in this time of I mean then
back in 2020, it was a time ofturbulence, of change.
We had no way of knowing wherethe world was going to go, and
the idea of life reaching such akind of like almost like a kind
of an event horizon, a criticalmass, that you have found the
bravery to do that, I found thatutterly inspiring.
Thank you so much for sharingthat thank you.
Beth Sage Phung (22:24):
Uh, it was definitely.
It was definitely a turningpoint in my life.
I will definitely say that mylife trajectory would certainly
be different if I hadn't madethat choice, but I'm glad that I
did it and I encourage othersto do it if they're in similar
situations, because you'rebetter off for it.
Finbarre Snarey (22:43):
Absolutely Right, Sage Fung.
Thank you so much for joiningus on Tarot Interviews today.
Beth Sage Phung (22:47):
Thank you for having me.
I had a good time.
Finbarre Snarey (22:49):
That wraps up our conversation with Beth Sage
Fung of Twin StrangersProductions.
We hope you enjoyed exploringher wonderfully frank and
uplifting interview, and don'tforget to follow us, where you
get your podcasts, for links toSage's incredible work.
My name is Finn.
Thanks for tuning in and untilnext time, keep exploring the
stories that inspire you.
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