July 14, 2025 • 29 mins
Nova and Mali are married nonbinary lesbians who love fostering kittens and making inclusive gay art projects. Nova is from Michigan and Mali is from Germany and Texas, and they live together in Lansing, Michigan with their cats, Sam and Cosmo.
Discover their latest project Star Crossed: A Queer Tarot - a gorgeous new set of cards celebrating LGBTQ+ identities and disability representation. Now live on Kickstarter, the deck is a love letter to queer resilience and artistic freedom.
For more information:
Website: novaandmali.com
Instagram: nova_mali
Bluesky: novamali
Tumblr: novaandmali
Tarot Interviews credits
- Host and producer: Finbarre Snarey
- Theme music composer: Amelia Lawn
- Additional music: Nicola Snarey
- Cover art: Rein G
If you're curious about the cards we use and want to find out more, visit our Tarot Interviews podcast page.
Disclaimer: The Tarot Interviews podcast is intended for entertainment purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the hosts and guests are their own and do not constitute professional, legal, financial, medical, or psychological advice. Listeners are encouraged to seek guidance from qualified professionals where appropriate.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Finbarre Snarey (00:30):
Welcome to Tarot Interviews.
Today we're sitting down withNova and Marlee Quinn, the
creative duo shaking up theworld of queer art publishing.
Since 2020, they've been on amission to bring more LGBTQ+ and
black indigenous people ofcolour voices into the spotlight
, reimagining classic art andliterature in bold, inclusive
ways.
Their classics trilogy givesfamous artworks a fresh, diverse
(00:52):
twist, and Cover Me Queertransforms vintage romance novel
covers into vibrant lovestories that reflect the real
world.
But their work isn't just aboutbooks.
It's about building communitywhere underrepresented artists
can thrive.
Through workshops, exhibits andcollaborations, they're making
sure that queer and BIPOCcreatives get the recognition
(01:13):
that they deserve.
Let's explore their journey andsee how they're rewriting the
narrative, one stunning piece ata time.
Hi, now you're a little bitpixelated, but you look like
very friendly pixels.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (01:27):
Yeah, like I said, the internet was
being.
It's been in and out, so we'rehoping that it'll work, fingers
crossed.
Finbarre Snarey (01:34):
Fingers crossed .
And Nova and Mali, could youjust raise a hand so I know
which one's which.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (01:40):
Nova and I'm Mali.
I'm Nova.
Hi Mali.
Finbarre Snarey (01:42):
Hello Nova and I'm Mali Hi.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (01:44):
Nova, hi Mali, hello, hello.
Finbarre Snarey (01:46):
Hello and remind me where is it in the
world that you're speaking to mefrom?
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (01:51):
Michigan, USA-ish.
Finbarre Snarey (01:52):
Michigan.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (01:53):
I am technically still working, so
I'll be looking at my phoneoccasionally, but I will be
paying attention.
Finbarre Snarey (02:02):
Bless you.
No worries, no worries at all.
And who will be answering thequestions?
You worries, no worries at all.
And who will be answering thequestions?
You're going to take one each,and then maybe one between you
they're probably yours okay.
Now I read somewhere thatyou've fostered a large number
of cats 98 90.
I do you know?
I read 60 and I was thinking ongoodreads.
(02:23):
Somewhere it read 60 and I wasthinking on Goodreads, somewhere
it says 60, and I was thinkingthat's an awful lot of cats.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (02:28):
It's also been five.
This will be five years.
Yeah, in the summer it's beenfive years of it, but yeah 98.
Finbarre Snarey (02:39):
So what's the most number of cats you've had
at any given time?
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (02:44):
So what's the most number of cats you've
had at any given time?
It was the 10.
We had a mom, a pregnant mom,who came to us and then had nine
kittens.
Technically we had 11, becauseSam was also there, our cat.
But yeah, 10 cats in one roomwas a lot to behold.
Was you okay for like the firstsix weeks, five or six weeks,
and then they had just allstarted bouncing off the walls
(03:07):
and the mom was just like, oh mygod, it's really cool because
we got to see all but one ofthem be born.
It was our first pregnant momtoo, and then she had nine
kittens.
Oh, I love that we've got samand cosmo cosmo's in his room.
He, he won't be out, but we gotour two.
Finbarre Snarey (03:28):
Do you name the cats that you take in or do you
just take on the names thatthey arrive with?
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (03:34):
A little bit of both.
Sam came to me a long time ago,before I even knew Mali, and
she came with a name that wascompletely ridiculous.
So I asked her if she had aname and we decided on Sam.
And then Cosmo came to us andnamed Cosmo and I was like, well
, we can ask him and see if hetells us if he has another name.
He did that.
No, he's also not the mostintelligent cat we've ever met.
Finbarre Snarey (03:59):
I would more kindly say that it looks like
he's staring into another plane.
He's gazing into the astralrealm.
That cat.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (04:06):
Yeah, the funky eye in particular, I'm
like.
That's never actually focused,he only looks at you.
So he's also really funnybecause he looks at you like
this, because it's just the oneeye that actually works, which
makes hunting a littleinteresting.
He runs into a lot of stuff.
Poor boy.
I love him so much, that poorboy.
Finbarre Snarey (04:26):
While we've been talking, I've got my little
deck of cards here, and theones that we're using today are
the Rider Waite, or the RiderWaite-Smith as you'd be called,
and these are the little ones.
These are the centenary deck.
I do have, you know, themassive ones that you try and
juggle, and basically all thecards try and announce
themselves all at once.
We've only got the little onestoday.
(04:47):
Ramali, are you ready?
yeah the five of ones.
Okay, so I want you to look atthat.
I want whoever wants to answerthis one, let's get first
impressions.
I'd like to vibes.
What does the card say to you?
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (05:06):
You know I'm better than I do off the top
of your head, I think.
Conflict is what I see.
Are we going to fight about it?
In the context of like the workwe do, what I see is the world
(05:29):
in chaos, I would say that somefights could be good fights.
Finbarre Snarey (05:32):
I mean, as you say, this traditionally is a
card of struggle competition.
You've got your five figureswielding wands at each other,
courting a chaotic clash.
So it's fiery and it's dynamic.
So first question is going tobe have you faced any
competition or challenges in theart world and how did you
(05:54):
handle them?
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (05:57):
I mean.
So the queer online art space.
It's still very large and yetalso very small at the same time
, and I would say it's aconstant struggle to make sure
we're trying to be as inclusiveas we can.
Just a constant.
We're always trying to makesure that we can include more
(06:19):
people, and the more people weinclude, inevitably somebody
gets left out.
So there's a constant struggle.
Head to head with that, I wouldsay, yeah, and also just
competition, I feel like, amongthe artists that we hire,
(06:39):
because we got to the pointpretty early on where we wanted
to hire both new people andreturning artists, but then we
ran into the issue of not havingenough spots for all of the
artists that we wanted to hire.
So I think, as time has gone on, it's gotten more competitive,
which is nice.
I'm glad.
(06:59):
It's also just like I just wantto hire everybody, but I can't.
There's only 78 tarot cards.
Finbarre Snarey (07:07):
So this will sound almost like a job
interview question, but how didyou handle those challenges?
Could you give me a situationand talk me through what you did
?
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (07:16):
I would say gratefully, with especially
not being able to hire how manyreturning artists we always have
, especially not being able tohire how many returning artists
we always have, because people,for whatever reason, want to
come back and work with us,which is I'm so grateful for.
And I think the first couple oftimes we had to say no to
people, especially ones thathave become our friends, because
(07:38):
we've been doing this for alittle over five years now, just
like fostering the first coupleof times it was really hard to
say no to people because I wasreally afraid that they would
take it very personally andsometimes people have, and we've
had a few falling outs.
But I think for the most part,I think the issues with
rejecting people that we've hadwere people that we hadn't
worked with before, because wedefinitely had.
(07:58):
There's one artist, yeah, thatgot pretty upset over being
rejected, complained about it onTwitter, which was difficult
for us.
So I think we kind of had tosit down and be like this
doesn't actually mean anythingabout us, like it's okay that
(08:21):
people are upset over beingrejected, but learning how to be
okay with the fact that thereare people who are upset or
unhappy with decisions we'vemade or products or anything.
That's been a really interestingline to learn how to walk
Because we both have a fairamount of anxiety, you could say
(08:41):
generously.
So there's usually a lot ofsitting on the floor and I don't
(09:03):
know.
I feel like we both had to liedown on the floor
mid-applications before justbecause we were in kickoff.
This is so hard.
I have to have some floor timeabout it.
I have to have some floor timeabout it.
I had to have some floor timeabout it.
Finbarre Snarey (09:19):
I need to save that to use.
The reason why that questioncame to mind is, I imagine I
don't know if you're theforeperson of a factory and you
know you're sending out a quotaof 20 boxes of baked beans per
day or whatever it is you do ina factory.
You have no emotional link tothe product day or whatever it
is you're doing a factor, youhave no emotional link to the
product.
But I imagine you have anemotional link to the artists
and they have an emotional linkto their work.
(09:40):
And I mean for me, I I stand inawe because for me that would
be, as you say, an anxietyminefield of, I don't know, just
the idea of possibly justrubbing up people the wrong way
and that being, you know, eitherreflected in their work or them
not coming back to furtherprojects or shoots.
(10:00):
I wouldn't know which way tojump in that.
So, you know, hats off to youboth.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (10:07):
Yeah, it's, we've had to learn.
Finbarre Snarey (10:11):
It's possibly a little bit like herding cats as
well, which it sounds like issomething you're adept at.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (10:15):
I also work at a cat cafe that works
with two rescues locally.
I've come up and now I'm anassistant manager there.
I have more than once said thatherding cats there is easier
than herding all of my artistsinto one spot.
I love you guys, but, oh boy,emails are not your specialty.
(10:36):
No, being organized is notusually an artist.
No, that's my job.
I come in with the spreadsheets.
I'm just like we're going toget this done, which is why we
have as many projects as we have.
Finbarre Snarey (10:49):
Yeah, I was going to say I think in any good
relationship, one person needsto be good at spreadsheets, and
that person is not me.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (10:56):
That is my job.
You're cute, but no, I didn'teven look at a spreadsheet
before we did our first tarotproject.
I don't think, at least notsince high school.
Finbarre Snarey (11:10):
Yes.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (11:11):
I also don't delve in.
I have so many spreadsheets.
Finbarre Snarey (11:18):
You don't have a spreadsheet of the
spreadsheets that you have, doyou?
You haven't got to that stageyet.
It's not like an inset sheet.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (11:23):
We have a master master spreadsheet.
So like we have spreadsheetsfor each project and then we
have one that has all of theartists and which projects
they've worked on.
So, especially for applications, it's helpful to see have they
worked with us before, what didthey do previously?
(11:44):
So then we ding out the mastermaster, so kind of.
So kind of yeah, spreadsheet.
Okay here we go.
Oh, 279 artists.
We've gotten to work with over10 projects so far.
10 projects oh my god, yeahBeen busy.
(12:04):
This Tarot one.
We started our first projectwith Tarot and now our 10th
project is Tarot.
This is nice.
Somehow you found the time torespond to my email.
I feel blessed.
Yeah, thankfully it's not too much at
once.
It's usually one or twoprojects running at any given
time.
I mean, it's usually sostaggered in the schedule so the
(12:27):
emails usually don't overlapvery much.
So I'll have a ton of emailsone month and then I have
downtime.
Not as bad as perhaps it maysound like, it is Well let's
find out what the next card hasin store for you.
Finbarre Snarey (12:41):
I've got the deck again, so as before.
So for card number two, justtell me when to stop.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (12:49):
Oh, it's your turn first.
Oh, okay, stop the Empress.
Ooh, I stop.
Finbarre Snarey (12:56):
The Empress.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (12:58):
I love a good Empress card.
I think that's you.
Finbarre Snarey (13:05):
So what does the Empress say to you?
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (13:07):
Honestly, it's something I do.
Have all the pomegranates.
Oh, is this the one that JulieDillon did?
No, she's in a different one.
No, she knew the cups Queen ofCups.
Okay, ignore that part.
But trying to remember what thecards look like from the
projects we've done.
That's why I think it's you,because once you decide that
(13:33):
you're going to do something, byGod, I'm going to do it, you're
going to do it and that's theonly reason we do these projects
.
Yeah, that's fair, you'rewelcome.
I feel like now I need to tellthe story of the first.
Yeah, I don't remember what wewere talking about.
I just wanted to take a nap.
(13:54):
Yeah, well, okay.
So I think I just thought of itin bed and I was like reading
or looking at my phone orsomething, and nova was gonna
take a nap and, um, suddenly sheshe rolls over and sits up and
says we should do a crowd fundedtarot project just a gay tarot
deck gay Gay tarot deck and Iwas just like this was like
(14:17):
three years into ourrelationship oh, at best, at
best.
So it's like I I did.
My response was the responsethat I have for a lot of my
creative friends, which is thatsounds great, that I've.
If you can, if you end up doingthat, that sounds like a good
time, but we all know it's nevergonna happen um, out of
(14:38):
interest, approximately whattime was this conversation?
Finbarre Snarey (14:41):
Are we talking like as you're going to bed?
Are we talking like two in themorning?
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (14:45):
Oh no, this is mid-afternoon.
I'm a big nap fan.
I like a good afternoon nap, um.
So I kind of I was like, sure,that seems like a fun idea.
But, like I, I don't usuallyhave the kind of organizational
skills to follow through on thatkind of thing and I didn't know
yet that someone else does.
(15:07):
Um, and like the next thing, Iknow she has a spreadsheet and
is reaching out to artists.
Well, you reached out to Damesfirst, which is another.
They do similar line of work.
They do art books, mostly likewomen, loving women.
(15:31):
And now they're good friends ofours because we've been working
with them for five years andone of them is our graphic
designer on everything.
So, yeah, familiar and uh, yeah.
So a couple days later she hadlike a budget lined out and was
(15:54):
trying to figure out how to likerun applications efficiently,
and I was just like I'll bedoing this.
And then I just kept doing it,yeah, and then, after we
finished that one, you were likeI could do another one of these
and I was like, yeah, sure, butthen, out of my mind, I was
(16:16):
like I want to do another one.
And now here we are, ten later,or nine and a half.
Finbarre Snarey (16:24):
This one's not really done yet, but we'll get
there and a master masterspreadsheet to go with it.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (16:28):
Yes, yes, it's beautiful, it's also a
rainbow.
It's very nice.
Finbarre Snarey (16:34):
I'm thinking about the Empress card and I'm
thinking about it's a card of Iwas going to say flourishment I
don't even know if that is aproper word of birthing projects
.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (16:52):
Okay, how has your community nurtured you
in your work?
Oh, without them, them we'renothing.
Yeah, I mean the first.
I think it was someone who,like collects and reviews tarot
cards, posted a tiktok or a reellooking through the deck that
(17:14):
we had made.
Um, and we were both so humbledand emotional just listening to
someone else see something inthe work that we had done.
Um, and, honestly, that justkeeps happening, which is wild.
(17:37):
It happens both from customersand artists.
Yeah, like finding meaning, orcreating meaning and the things
that we do, which is so weirdbecause, like, I send emails on
the couch in my pajamas and, inturn, somehow make these queer
projects in a time, in a spacewhere we need to be seen, where
(17:58):
we're constantly being puncheddown, and I, no, we are going to
celebrate the fact that we'rehere, we're queer, we have
always been here and we willalways be here.
So the fact that the artistsfind meaning, especially with, I
would say, our classics.
But Make it Gay.
We did three books and peoplewould take pieces from art
(18:21):
history and make them queer,particularly also people of
color inclusive.
So it was like a double whammy.
Finbarre Snarey (18:29):
I've not had much listening in this
particular book, but which kindof schools of art or genres of
art are we talking?
Are we talking like sort ofpre-Raphaelite or Hudson River
School?
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (18:40):
We did up to like the early 20th century.
We didn't want to get toomodern and get into the
copyright issues, but prettymuch everything before that,
yeah, and the more um.
So at the first book it wasprobably mostly pre-raffelite um
and some art nouveau um, andwith the second and third I
definitely pushed people to alook outside of white art and be
(19:02):
definitely different timeperiods because, like, there's
always art history to make moreus um.
So, yes, it's been wild.
So having people find meaningin the things that I'm able to
do makes me want to make moreand again, especially in today's
(19:24):
day and age, for whateverreason, it's also just the
juxtaposition for us, like,sometimes doing the projects is
kind of just work, like it'sstressful and Frustrating,
(19:45):
frustrating, frustrating, and itstill blows my mind every time
anybody has anything nice to sayabout her.
And we have a whole artistcommunity now too, which is
insane.
We made friends from this.
They're actually throwing us ababy shower in a couple of weeks
, and I'm just like what do youmean?
Wow, what do you mean?
(20:06):
That's insane.
Finbarre Snarey (20:10):
Is this a virtual event, or are they?
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (20:13):
Virtual?
Yeah, because they're all overthe place.
We do have a couple in Michigan, but most of them are all over
the place.
Yeah, literally all over theplace.
Yeah, literally all over theworld.
Mind-boggling.
Finbarre Snarey (20:31):
And how far away is the baby show?
Are we talking?
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (20:34):
That's a couple of weeks and the babies
do mid-May-ish.
We'll see Sometime.
We're kind of hoping that thefoster kitten experience helps
us, because with those guys, thebottle babies you're up every
hour and a half two hours Allnight every night.
Thankfully only for a couple ofweeks, compared to a human
(20:54):
child.
But you know.
So we've done the sleepdeprived thing for extended
periods of time.
So we have our fingers crossedthat we're like this much
prepared for it, as much as youcan be and, in terms of
preparation, do you have outfitsin mind as well?
Finbarre Snarey (21:10):
Because, of course, if you have a small
person, you need to have thesmall outfits.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (21:15):
It's, it's part of the role see, maybe
not like particularly, butwe've gotten a lot.
I'm not allowed to walk throughthe baby clothes department
anymore and we also have a lotof hand-me-downs.
So we have a lot of cuteclothes, a lot of good
koala-themed outfits though.
Koalas, dinosaurs, anythingwith the little animals on the
feet, oh, I can't handle it Toocute.
Finbarre Snarey (21:40):
Okay, so we've got a minor arcana and a major
arcana.
Let's see what we get for thisone.
Nova Quinn/Mali Q (21:47):
Statistically it should be minor.
Finbarre Snarey (21:49):
Statistically, yeah, but for some reason
there's some cards I just neverseem to get.
I won't tell you which onesthey are, because I'll just
tempt fate that way.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (21:59):
Stop.
Finbarre Snarey (22:00):
Okay, so cut the deck there.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (22:12):
Okay, stop.
Okay, so cut the deck there.
The two of pentacles thought itwas the fool at first.
See, I'm not.
I think it's because in theoriginal deck, um, your friend
did it as a very gesturey and soI'm weird perspective, so
they're close to me?
Finbarre Snarey (22:24):
I think you're right.
It does have a very kind ofcoincidentally, the fool is one
of my favorite cars as it is foreveryone, but it's also, um, a
pendant I have to wear around myneck, and you're right, this
does have a very similar kind ofalmost color scheme, feel and
vibe to it, but what's it sayingto you today?
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (22:43):
yeah, I mean it feels like juggling our
projects and our artists and anincoming child, an incoming
child, our two cats, rough seain the background, the current
(23:05):
political climate in thebackground, but yet somehow also
they are balanced.
It'll be okay.
Yeah, we just have to keep ourhead on.
Finbarre Snarey (23:14):
Yeah I mean it's a, it's a light-hearted
approach to life's ups and downs.
So I mean it's it's too much ofan easy question to ask, but
let's go for anyway.
Um, how do you both differentlybalance multiple artistic
projects at once?
Because I imagine how I meanit's literally your job, and
(23:35):
it's very different to the otherwhat did you say?
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (23:39):
Literally your job?
Yeah, I mean, because I am oneof the artists, I feel like I
have it.
I do some of the art directiononce we start getting like
finished files and stuff in, butI think for me I get so much
(24:00):
inspiration just from seeingwhat the other artists are
making.
I think I put a lot of pressureon myself sometimes to live up
to the other artists as well,because I don't want to be in
the projects just because I'mmarried to the boss.
So I think that sometimes Istress myself out a little bit
(24:27):
that.
But overall I think I'm justconstantly thinking of art
anyway.
That like playing off the otherartists and seeing what we have
coming in always gives me a lotof energy to work on stuff.
I I just have a lot of to-dolists and I've also gotten
better about institutingbusiness hours.
(24:49):
Like if it's after dinner, theemails can probably wait.
Nothing is that much of anemergency, at least for our
projects.
Nothing is ever really thattime-sensitive.
Yeah, I just kind timesensitive.
Yeah, I just kind of.
Do you know, I have to learn.
Finbarre Snarey (25:09):
How do the vagaries of the muse and
inspiration coincide with howyou work?
So, for example, if yousuddenly get a really good idea,
do you put that to one side?
Do you drop everything in themoment?
How do you work with what canbe a quite unpredictable source
of inspiration?
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (25:27):
I think we have a pretty good.
I don't think we actually havea list, but we have a list in
our minds of ideas that we wouldlike to do for project memory,
that we would like to do forproject memory.
Sometimes the timing is justright that I can put one.
(25:47):
If I'm in a really big dipbetween work, if we've ordered a
bunch of stuff and it's nottime to ship it yet, that's a
big few months that I can get alot of stuff done and loop the
project over.
So sometimes I'm able to just,oh good, stretch.
Sometimes I'm able to just starta new project.
Yeah, otherwise I have to begood and put it in the back of
(26:08):
my mind and try to figure outwhen the next big dip will be
that I can launch something.
Or you know, we're gonna have ababy.
So like there's a couple ofmonths where I'm not really
trying to do anything here.
Um, so with this, our new tarotproject coming up, we're
actually kind of dragging ourfeet a little bit, because I
cannot explain how much I do notwant a palette of books and
cards to arrive what I'm alsosupposed to either soon have or
(26:32):
just have had a new human arrive.
Really don't want a palette ofbooks delivered to my house.
Finbarre Snarey (26:40):
Really, really don't as exciting as the arrival
of a new human is.
I do really want to know aboutthis, this tarot card project.
Are you able to reveal anythingabout it?
Are you, can you talk methrough what it is?
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (26:52):
Yeah, so it's um, it's a queer tarot deck
.
So everyone on the cards, evenif they're not like I would say,
sometimes with a single figure,it's hard to make it implicit
that they're very queer.
But, like, every single cardfeatures a queer human and we've
done our best to make surethere's a lot of disability
(27:14):
representation, particularly acouple of new things that I
don't think we've hit on before,and, of course, people of color
always and lots of transinclusivity.
So that's been really exciting.
We did a little more artdirection on this one, which was
kind of fun.
We basically said, if you havea single figure on your card,
(27:39):
they need to be trans, disabled,or a person of color, or all
free or any combination or of.
Yeah, for the most part, Ithink there are soft feet.
We're not always super strictabout our art direction, just
because we do want to give ourartists some freedom, um, but we
(27:59):
also made um each of the suitscolor-coordinated this time,
which I'm really excited about,so all of the cups have a
similar color scheme.
Yeah, I think it turned outreally cool.
We tried a bunch of new things,things, and I'm very excited.
(28:21):
We are working on formattingthe card soon to send a print
and the book to send a print allin April, so then hopefully it
doesn't get here until like Juneor July.
So, yes, we're very excitedabout it and I really hope I
hope that our customers find themeaning in it, that we have
(28:46):
found in it so far, and I knowthat all of our artists were
really invested in it.
So I'm hoping that love carriesthrough and gives everybody
something that they can seethemselves in.
You know which we need againand today, yeah, we need that
(29:08):
what an inspiring chat with novaand marley quinn.
Finbarre Snarey (29:11):
Their work isn't just about creating art.
It's about making sure thatqueer and bipoc stories are seen
, heard and celebrated, frompublishing to exhibitions that
opening doors for artists thathave been overlooked for far too
long.
Be sure to check out theiramazing projects and support
their mission, because these arethe stories the world needs
right now.
Thanks for tuning in to TarotInterviews.
(29:33):
See you next time for morecreative conversations.
Tarot Interviews.
Welcome to Tarot Interviews.
Today we're sitting down withNova and Marlee Quinn, the
creative duo shaking up theworld of queer art publishing.
Since 2020, they've been on amission to bring more LGBTQ+ and
black indigenous people ofcolour voices into the spotlight
, reimagining classic art andliterature in bold, inclusive
ways.
Their classics trilogy givesfamous artworks a fresh, diverse
(00:52):
twist, and Cover Me Queertransforms vintage romance novel
covers into vibrant lovestories that reflect the real
world.
But their work isn't just aboutbooks.
It's about building communitywhere underrepresented artists
can thrive.
Through workshops, exhibits andcollaborations, they're making
sure that queer and BIPOCcreatives get the recognition
(01:13):
that they deserve.
Let's explore their journey andsee how they're rewriting the
narrative, one stunning piece ata time.
Hi, now you're a little bitpixelated, but you look like
very friendly pixels.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (01:27):
Yeah, like I said, the internet was
being.
It's been in and out, so we'rehoping that it'll work, fingers
crossed.
Finbarre Snarey (01:34):
Fingers crossed .
And Nova and Mali, could youjust raise a hand so I know
which one's which.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (01:40):
Nova and I'm Mali.
I'm Nova.
Hi Mali.
Finbarre Snarey (01:42):
Hello Nova and I'm Mali Hi.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (01:44):
Nova, hi Mali, hello, hello.
Finbarre Snarey (01:46):
Hello and remind me where is it in the
world that you're speaking to mefrom?
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (01:51):
Michigan, USA-ish.
Finbarre Snarey (01:52):
Michigan.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (01:53):
I am technically still working, so
I'll be looking at my phoneoccasionally, but I will be
paying attention.
Finbarre Snarey (02:02):
Bless you.
No worries, no worries at all.
And who will be answering thequestions?
You worries, no worries at all.
And who will be answering thequestions?
You're going to take one each,and then maybe one between you
they're probably yours okay.
Now I read somewhere thatyou've fostered a large number
of cats 98 90.
I do you know?
I read 60 and I was thinking ongoodreads.
(02:23):
Somewhere it read 60 and I wasthinking on Goodreads, somewhere
it says 60, and I was thinkingthat's an awful lot of cats.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (02:28):
It's also been five.
This will be five years.
Yeah, in the summer it's beenfive years of it, but yeah 98.
Finbarre Snarey (02:39):
So what's the most number of cats you've had
at any given time?
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (02:44):
So what's the most number of cats you've
had at any given time?
It was the 10.
We had a mom, a pregnant mom,who came to us and then had nine
kittens.
Technically we had 11, becauseSam was also there, our cat.
But yeah, 10 cats in one roomwas a lot to behold.
Was you okay for like the firstsix weeks, five or six weeks,
and then they had just allstarted bouncing off the walls
(03:07):
and the mom was just like, oh mygod, it's really cool because
we got to see all but one ofthem be born.
It was our first pregnant momtoo, and then she had nine
kittens.
Oh, I love that we've got samand cosmo cosmo's in his room.
He, he won't be out, but we gotour two.
Finbarre Snarey (03:28):
Do you name the cats that you take in or do you
just take on the names thatthey arrive with?
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (03:34):
A little bit of both.
Sam came to me a long time ago,before I even knew Mali, and
she came with a name that wascompletely ridiculous.
So I asked her if she had aname and we decided on Sam.
And then Cosmo came to us andnamed Cosmo and I was like, well
, we can ask him and see if hetells us if he has another name.
He did that.
No, he's also not the mostintelligent cat we've ever met.
Finbarre Snarey (03:59):
I would more kindly say that it looks like
he's staring into another plane.
He's gazing into the astralrealm.
That cat.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (04:06):
Yeah, the funky eye in particular, I'm
like.
That's never actually focused,he only looks at you.
So he's also really funnybecause he looks at you like
this, because it's just the oneeye that actually works, which
makes hunting a littleinteresting.
He runs into a lot of stuff.
Poor boy.
I love him so much, that poorboy.
Finbarre Snarey (04:26):
While we've been talking, I've got my little
deck of cards here, and theones that we're using today are
the Rider Waite, or the RiderWaite-Smith as you'd be called,
and these are the little ones.
These are the centenary deck.
I do have, you know, themassive ones that you try and
juggle, and basically all thecards try and announce
themselves all at once.
We've only got the little onestoday.
(04:47):
Ramali, are you ready?
yeah the five of ones.
Okay, so I want you to look atthat.
I want whoever wants to answerthis one, let's get first
impressions.
I'd like to vibes.
What does the card say to you?
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (05:06):
You know I'm better than I do off the top
of your head, I think.
Conflict is what I see.
Are we going to fight about it?
In the context of like the workwe do, what I see is the world
(05:29):
in chaos, I would say that somefights could be good fights.
Finbarre Snarey (05:32):
I mean, as you say, this traditionally is a
card of struggle competition.
You've got your five figureswielding wands at each other,
courting a chaotic clash.
So it's fiery and it's dynamic.
So first question is going tobe have you faced any
competition or challenges in theart world and how did you
(05:54):
handle them?
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (05:57):
I mean.
So the queer online art space.
It's still very large and yetalso very small at the same time
, and I would say it's aconstant struggle to make sure
we're trying to be as inclusiveas we can.
Just a constant.
We're always trying to makesure that we can include more
(06:19):
people, and the more people weinclude, inevitably somebody
gets left out.
So there's a constant struggle.
Head to head with that, I wouldsay, yeah, and also just
competition, I feel like, amongthe artists that we hire,
(06:39):
because we got to the pointpretty early on where we wanted
to hire both new people andreturning artists, but then we
ran into the issue of not havingenough spots for all of the
artists that we wanted to hire.
So I think, as time has gone on, it's gotten more competitive,
which is nice.
I'm glad.
(06:59):
It's also just like I just wantto hire everybody, but I can't.
There's only 78 tarot cards.
Finbarre Snarey (07:07):
So this will sound almost like a job
interview question, but how didyou handle those challenges?
Could you give me a situationand talk me through what you did
?
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (07:16):
I would say gratefully, with especially
not being able to hire how manyreturning artists we always have
, especially not being able tohire how many returning artists
we always have, because people,for whatever reason, want to
come back and work with us,which is I'm so grateful for.
And I think the first couple oftimes we had to say no to
people, especially ones thathave become our friends, because
(07:38):
we've been doing this for alittle over five years now, just
like fostering the first coupleof times it was really hard to
say no to people because I wasreally afraid that they would
take it very personally andsometimes people have, and we've
had a few falling outs.
But I think for the most part,I think the issues with
rejecting people that we've hadwere people that we hadn't
worked with before, because wedefinitely had.
(07:58):
There's one artist, yeah, thatgot pretty upset over being
rejected, complained about it onTwitter, which was difficult
for us.
So I think we kind of had tosit down and be like this
doesn't actually mean anythingabout us, like it's okay that
(08:21):
people are upset over beingrejected, but learning how to be
okay with the fact that thereare people who are upset or
unhappy with decisions we'vemade or products or anything.
That's been a really interestingline to learn how to walk
Because we both have a fairamount of anxiety, you could say
(08:41):
generously.
So there's usually a lot ofsitting on the floor and I don't
(09:03):
know.
I feel like we both had to liedown on the floor
mid-applications before justbecause we were in kickoff.
This is so hard.
I have to have some floor timeabout it.
I have to have some floor timeabout it.
I had to have some floor timeabout it.
Finbarre Snarey (09:19):
I need to save that to use.
The reason why that questioncame to mind is, I imagine I
don't know if you're theforeperson of a factory and you
know you're sending out a quotaof 20 boxes of baked beans per
day or whatever it is you do ina factory.
You have no emotional link tothe product day or whatever it
is you're doing a factor, youhave no emotional link to the
product.
But I imagine you have anemotional link to the artists
and they have an emotional linkto their work.
(09:40):
And I mean for me, I I stand inawe because for me that would
be, as you say, an anxietyminefield of, I don't know, just
the idea of possibly justrubbing up people the wrong way
and that being, you know, eitherreflected in their work or them
not coming back to furtherprojects or shoots.
(10:00):
I wouldn't know which way tojump in that.
So, you know, hats off to youboth.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (10:07):
Yeah, it's, we've had to learn.
Finbarre Snarey (10:11):
It's possibly a little bit like herding cats as
well, which it sounds like issomething you're adept at.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (10:15):
I also work at a cat cafe that works
with two rescues locally.
I've come up and now I'm anassistant manager there.
I have more than once said thatherding cats there is easier
than herding all of my artistsinto one spot.
I love you guys, but, oh boy,emails are not your specialty.
(10:36):
No, being organized is notusually an artist.
No, that's my job.
I come in with the spreadsheets.
I'm just like we're going toget this done, which is why we
have as many projects as we have.
Finbarre Snarey (10:49):
Yeah, I was going to say I think in any good
relationship, one person needsto be good at spreadsheets, and
that person is not me.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (10:56):
That is my job.
You're cute, but no, I didn'teven look at a spreadsheet
before we did our first tarotproject.
I don't think, at least notsince high school.
Finbarre Snarey (11:10):
Yes.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (11:11):
I also don't delve in.
I have so many spreadsheets.
Finbarre Snarey (11:18):
You don't have a spreadsheet of the
spreadsheets that you have, doyou?
You haven't got to that stageyet.
It's not like an inset sheet.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (11:23):
We have a master master spreadsheet.
So like we have spreadsheetsfor each project and then we
have one that has all of theartists and which projects
they've worked on.
So, especially for applications, it's helpful to see have they
worked with us before, what didthey do previously?
(11:44):
So then we ding out the mastermaster, so kind of.
So kind of yeah, spreadsheet.
Okay here we go.
Oh, 279 artists.
We've gotten to work with over10 projects so far.
10 projects oh my god, yeahBeen busy.
(12:04):
This Tarot one.
We started our first projectwith Tarot and now our 10th
project is Tarot.
This is nice.
Somehow you found the time torespond to my email.
I feel blessed.
Yeah, thankfully it's not too much at
once.
It's usually one or twoprojects running at any given
time.
I mean, it's usually sostaggered in the schedule so the
(12:27):
emails usually don't overlapvery much.
So I'll have a ton of emailsone month and then I have
downtime.
Not as bad as perhaps it maysound like, it is Well let's
find out what the next card hasin store for you.
Finbarre Snarey (12:41):
I've got the deck again, so as before.
So for card number two, justtell me when to stop.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (12:49):
Oh, it's your turn first.
Oh, okay, stop the Empress.
Ooh, I stop.
Finbarre Snarey (12:56):
The Empress.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (12:58):
I love a good Empress card.
I think that's you.
Finbarre Snarey (13:05):
So what does the Empress say to you?
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (13:07):
Honestly, it's something I do.
Have all the pomegranates.
Oh, is this the one that JulieDillon did?
No, she's in a different one.
No, she knew the cups Queen ofCups.
Okay, ignore that part.
But trying to remember what thecards look like from the
projects we've done.
That's why I think it's you,because once you decide that
(13:33):
you're going to do something, byGod, I'm going to do it, you're
going to do it and that's theonly reason we do these projects
.
Yeah, that's fair, you'rewelcome.
I feel like now I need to tellthe story of the first.
Yeah, I don't remember what wewere talking about.
I just wanted to take a nap.
(13:54):
Yeah, well, okay.
So I think I just thought of itin bed and I was like reading
or looking at my phone orsomething, and nova was gonna
take a nap and, um, suddenly sheshe rolls over and sits up and
says we should do a crowd fundedtarot project just a gay tarot
deck gay Gay tarot deck and Iwas just like this was like
(14:17):
three years into ourrelationship oh, at best, at
best.
So it's like I I did.
My response was the responsethat I have for a lot of my
creative friends, which is thatsounds great, that I've.
If you can, if you end up doingthat, that sounds like a good
time, but we all know it's nevergonna happen um, out of
(14:38):
interest, approximately whattime was this conversation?
Finbarre Snarey (14:41):
Are we talking like as you're going to bed?
Are we talking like two in themorning?
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (14:45):
Oh no, this is mid-afternoon.
I'm a big nap fan.
I like a good afternoon nap, um.
So I kind of I was like, sure,that seems like a fun idea.
But, like I, I don't usuallyhave the kind of organizational
skills to follow through on thatkind of thing and I didn't know
yet that someone else does.
(15:07):
Um, and like the next thing, Iknow she has a spreadsheet and
is reaching out to artists.
Well, you reached out to Damesfirst, which is another.
They do similar line of work.
They do art books, mostly likewomen, loving women.
(15:31):
And now they're good friends ofours because we've been working
with them for five years andone of them is our graphic
designer on everything.
So, yeah, familiar and uh, yeah.
So a couple days later she hadlike a budget lined out and was
(15:54):
trying to figure out how to likerun applications efficiently,
and I was just like I'll bedoing this.
And then I just kept doing it,yeah, and then, after we
finished that one, you were likeI could do another one of these
and I was like, yeah, sure, butthen, out of my mind, I was
(16:16):
like I want to do another one.
And now here we are, ten later,or nine and a half.
Finbarre Snarey (16:24):
This one's not really done yet, but we'll get
there and a master masterspreadsheet to go with it.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (16:28):
Yes, yes, it's beautiful, it's also a
rainbow.
It's very nice.
Finbarre Snarey (16:34):
I'm thinking about the Empress card and I'm
thinking about it's a card of Iwas going to say flourishment I
don't even know if that is aproper word of birthing projects
.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (16:52):
Okay, how has your community nurtured you
in your work?
Oh, without them, them we'renothing.
Yeah, I mean the first.
I think it was someone who,like collects and reviews tarot
cards, posted a tiktok or a reellooking through the deck that
(17:14):
we had made.
Um, and we were both so humbledand emotional just listening to
someone else see something inthe work that we had done.
Um, and, honestly, that justkeeps happening, which is wild.
(17:37):
It happens both from customersand artists.
Yeah, like finding meaning, orcreating meaning and the things
that we do, which is so weirdbecause, like, I send emails on
the couch in my pajamas and, inturn, somehow make these queer
projects in a time, in a spacewhere we need to be seen, where
(17:58):
we're constantly being puncheddown, and I, no, we are going to
celebrate the fact that we'rehere, we're queer, we have
always been here and we willalways be here.
So the fact that the artistsfind meaning, especially with, I
would say, our classics.
But Make it Gay.
We did three books and peoplewould take pieces from art
(18:21):
history and make them queer,particularly also people of
color inclusive.
So it was like a double whammy.
Finbarre Snarey (18:29):
I've not had much listening in this
particular book, but which kindof schools of art or genres of
art are we talking?
Are we talking like sort ofpre-Raphaelite or Hudson River
School?
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (18:40):
We did up to like the early 20th century.
We didn't want to get toomodern and get into the
copyright issues, but prettymuch everything before that,
yeah, and the more um.
So at the first book it wasprobably mostly pre-raffelite um
and some art nouveau um, andwith the second and third I
definitely pushed people to alook outside of white art and be
(19:02):
definitely different timeperiods because, like, there's
always art history to make moreus um.
So, yes, it's been wild.
So having people find meaningin the things that I'm able to
do makes me want to make moreand again, especially in today's
(19:24):
day and age, for whateverreason, it's also just the
juxtaposition for us, like,sometimes doing the projects is
kind of just work, like it'sstressful and Frustrating,
(19:45):
frustrating, frustrating, and itstill blows my mind every time
anybody has anything nice to sayabout her.
And we have a whole artistcommunity now too, which is
insane.
We made friends from this.
They're actually throwing us ababy shower in a couple of weeks
, and I'm just like what do youmean?
Wow, what do you mean?
(20:06):
That's insane.
Finbarre Snarey (20:10):
Is this a virtual event, or are they?
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (20:13):
Virtual?
Yeah, because they're all overthe place.
We do have a couple in Michigan, but most of them are all over
the place.
Yeah, literally all over theplace.
Yeah, literally all over theworld.
Mind-boggling.
Finbarre Snarey (20:31):
And how far away is the baby show?
Are we talking?
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (20:34):
That's a couple of weeks and the babies
do mid-May-ish.
We'll see Sometime.
We're kind of hoping that thefoster kitten experience helps
us, because with those guys, thebottle babies you're up every
hour and a half two hours Allnight every night.
Thankfully only for a couple ofweeks, compared to a human
(20:54):
child.
But you know.
So we've done the sleepdeprived thing for extended
periods of time.
So we have our fingers crossedthat we're like this much
prepared for it, as much as youcan be and, in terms of
preparation, do you have outfitsin mind as well?
Finbarre Snarey (21:10):
Because, of course, if you have a small
person, you need to have thesmall outfits.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (21:15):
It's, it's part of the role see, maybe
not like particularly, butwe've gotten a lot.
I'm not allowed to walk throughthe baby clothes department
anymore and we also have a lotof hand-me-downs.
So we have a lot of cuteclothes, a lot of good
koala-themed outfits though.
Koalas, dinosaurs, anythingwith the little animals on the
feet, oh, I can't handle it Toocute.
Finbarre Snarey (21:40):
Okay, so we've got a minor arcana and a major
arcana.
Let's see what we get for thisone.
Nova Quinn/Mali Q (21:47):
Statistically it should be minor.
Finbarre Snarey (21:49):
Statistically, yeah, but for some reason
there's some cards I just neverseem to get.
I won't tell you which onesthey are, because I'll just
tempt fate that way.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (21:59):
Stop.
Finbarre Snarey (22:00):
Okay, so cut the deck there.
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (22:12):
Okay, stop.
Okay, so cut the deck there.
The two of pentacles thought itwas the fool at first.
See, I'm not.
I think it's because in theoriginal deck, um, your friend
did it as a very gesturey and soI'm weird perspective, so
they're close to me?
Finbarre Snarey (22:24):
I think you're right.
It does have a very kind ofcoincidentally, the fool is one
of my favorite cars as it is foreveryone, but it's also, um, a
pendant I have to wear around myneck, and you're right, this
does have a very similar kind ofalmost color scheme, feel and
vibe to it, but what's it sayingto you today?
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (22:43):
yeah, I mean it feels like juggling our
projects and our artists and anincoming child, an incoming
child, our two cats, rough seain the background, the current
(23:05):
political climate in thebackground, but yet somehow also
they are balanced.
It'll be okay.
Yeah, we just have to keep ourhead on.
Finbarre Snarey (23:14):
Yeah I mean it's a, it's a light-hearted
approach to life's ups and downs.
So I mean it's it's too much ofan easy question to ask, but
let's go for anyway.
Um, how do you both differentlybalance multiple artistic
projects at once?
Because I imagine how I meanit's literally your job, and
(23:35):
it's very different to the otherwhat did you say?
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (23:39):
Literally your job?
Yeah, I mean, because I am oneof the artists, I feel like I
have it.
I do some of the art directiononce we start getting like
finished files and stuff in, butI think for me I get so much
(24:00):
inspiration just from seeingwhat the other artists are
making.
I think I put a lot of pressureon myself sometimes to live up
to the other artists as well,because I don't want to be in
the projects just because I'mmarried to the boss.
So I think that sometimes Istress myself out a little bit
(24:27):
that.
But overall I think I'm justconstantly thinking of art
anyway.
That like playing off the otherartists and seeing what we have
coming in always gives me a lotof energy to work on stuff.
I I just have a lot of to-dolists and I've also gotten
better about institutingbusiness hours.
(24:49):
Like if it's after dinner, theemails can probably wait.
Nothing is that much of anemergency, at least for our
projects.
Nothing is ever really thattime-sensitive.
Yeah, I just kind timesensitive.
Yeah, I just kind of.
Do you know, I have to learn.
Finbarre Snarey (25:09):
How do the vagaries of the muse and
inspiration coincide with howyou work?
So, for example, if yousuddenly get a really good idea,
do you put that to one side?
Do you drop everything in themoment?
How do you work with what canbe a quite unpredictable source
of inspiration?
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (25:27):
I think we have a pretty good.
I don't think we actually havea list, but we have a list in
our minds of ideas that we wouldlike to do for project memory,
that we would like to do forproject memory.
Sometimes the timing is justright that I can put one.
(25:47):
If I'm in a really big dipbetween work, if we've ordered a
bunch of stuff and it's nottime to ship it yet, that's a
big few months that I can get alot of stuff done and loop the
project over.
So sometimes I'm able to just,oh good, stretch.
Sometimes I'm able to just starta new project.
Yeah, otherwise I have to begood and put it in the back of
(26:08):
my mind and try to figure outwhen the next big dip will be
that I can launch something.
Or you know, we're gonna have ababy.
So like there's a couple ofmonths where I'm not really
trying to do anything here.
Um, so with this, our new tarotproject coming up, we're
actually kind of dragging ourfeet a little bit, because I
cannot explain how much I do notwant a palette of books and
cards to arrive what I'm alsosupposed to either soon have or
(26:32):
just have had a new human arrive.
Really don't want a palette ofbooks delivered to my house.
Finbarre Snarey (26:40):
Really, really don't as exciting as the arrival
of a new human is.
I do really want to know aboutthis, this tarot card project.
Are you able to reveal anythingabout it?
Are you, can you talk methrough what it is?
Nova Quinn/Mali Quinn (26:52):
Yeah, so it's um, it's a queer tarot deck
.
So everyone on the cards, evenif they're not like I would say,
sometimes with a single figure,it's hard to make it implicit
that they're very queer.
But, like, every single cardfeatures a queer human and we've
done our best to make surethere's a lot of disability
(27:14):
representation, particularly acouple of new things that I
don't think we've hit on before,and, of course, people of color
always and lots of transinclusivity.
So that's been really exciting.
We did a little more artdirection on this one, which was
kind of fun.
We basically said, if you havea single figure on your card,
(27:39):
they need to be trans, disabled,or a person of color, or all
free or any combination or of.
Yeah, for the most part, Ithink there are soft feet.
We're not always super strictabout our art direction, just
because we do want to give ourartists some freedom, um, but we
(27:59):
also made um each of the suitscolor-coordinated this time,
which I'm really excited about,so all of the cups have a
similar color scheme.
Yeah, I think it turned outreally cool.
We tried a bunch of new things,things, and I'm very excited.
(28:21):
We are working on formattingthe card soon to send a print
and the book to send a print allin April, so then hopefully it
doesn't get here until like Juneor July.
So, yes, we're very excitedabout it and I really hope I
hope that our customers find themeaning in it, that we have
(28:46):
found in it so far, and I knowthat all of our artists were
really invested in it.
So I'm hoping that love carriesthrough and gives everybody
something that they can seethemselves in.
You know which we need againand today, yeah, we need that
(29:08):
what an inspiring chat with novaand marley quinn.
Finbarre Snarey (29:11):
Their work isn't just about creating art.
It's about making sure thatqueer and bipoc stories are seen
, heard and celebrated, frompublishing to exhibitions that
opening doors for artists thathave been overlooked for far too
long.
Be sure to check out theiramazing projects and support
their mission, because these arethe stories the world needs
right now.
Thanks for tuning in to TarotInterviews.
(29:33):
See you next time for morecreative conversations.
Tarot Interviews.
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