April 14, 2025 • 27 mins
Amy Blackthorn is a respected author and herbalist best known for blending plant magic with practical spirituality. Her best-selling books include Blackthorn’s Botanical Magic, Blackthorn’s Botanical Brews, Blackthorn’s Protection Magic, Blackthorn’s Botanical Wellness, and Sacred Smoke.
Ordained through the Order of the Golden Gryphon and certified in aromatherapy, Amy has appeared on Netflix’s Top Ten Secrets and Mysteries and HuffPost Live. She is also the founder of Blackthorn’s Botanicals, offering teas and oils rooted in magical practice.
Learn more at her official website: amyblackthorn.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Finbarre Snarey (00:19):
T Welcome to Tarot Interviews, where we
uncover the stories and insightsof fascinating individuals
through the lens of the tarot.
Today, I'm thrilled to welcomeAmy Blackthorn, a best-selling
(00:40):
author, renowned herbalist,famous for books like
Blackthorn's Botanical Magic andSacred Smoke.
With a deep love of nature anda lifetime of experience in the
green arts, amy has inspired herreaders to connect with plants
for healing, growth andtransformation.
Amy Blackthorn, welcome to theshow.
How are you today?
Amy Blackthorn (01:00):
Oh, my goodness, thank you so much for having me
.
I'm great.
I've been working with perfumeall day, so I'm just happy as a
clam.
(01:22):
That way, people have animmersive experience as to the
tarot that they're experiencing,or the magic that they're
understanding, and how to bringthat forth from themselves by
involving as many senses as youcan to really not just
experience that thing butconnect it to the other parts of
your senses so you can reallyingrain that learning that
(01:45):
you're doing.
Finbarre Snarey (01:47):
Amy Blackthorn, you are an olfactory oracle so,
as you're aware, we're here todeal some cards, make some
questions and see what comes out.
I have the Rider Waite in myhand, I'm going to shuffle this
and then I'd like you to saystop, are you ready?
Amy Blackthorn (02:06):
I can see, oh my goodness, the six of cups.
Finbarre Snarey (02:09):
So, gazing upon the six of cups, could you
describe what you see and yourfirst impressions of this card?
Amy Blackthorn (02:16):
Absolutely, there is a farmer's market in my
little world.
In my little world, uh, thevendors got a cup that is filled
with beautiful flowers, sometudor roses and some different,
uh, greenery, and they'reholding it forth to the person
looking at this fine arrangement, uh, warmly, because they're
(02:38):
they're little earmuffs, uh, butI always, I always, take this
card, um in spreads to make surethat people understand that
their emotional health and theiremotional well-being is
something that deserves its owntime and energy.
And you have to make time forthat, because otherwise this
world will eat you alive.
Finbarre Snarey (02:56):
Yeah, for me it's that reminder to embrace
joy.
Okay, so the question I havefor you is how has your past
influenced your love of plants?
Amy Blackthorn (03:05):
Oh goodness.
So I was born in Baltimore Cityand I lived my formative years
in a very industrialized area.
The elementary school where wewent to play had a paved parking
lot.
There was no grass, there wasno trees you know one tree per
block sort of neighborhood andso going through our backyard
(03:27):
there wasn't a lot ofbiodiversity, but there was.
I found at probably kindergartenage, this little mint plant
that some that a previous tenantin our apartment had planted,
and so I was trying to figureout, like why does this smell so
good?
Why is this different than allthe other plants out here in
kindergarten?
My goodness, yeah, I'm aboutfour or five years old and I go
(03:49):
and I talk to my mother and Isay, okay, why does this smell
good?
Why is this amazing?
Why is this important to me?
She says you know the mint icecream and the mint candies that
you really enjoy.
This is where that stuff comesfrom.
And this was my first experienceas a child growing up in a very
urban city, of understandingthat the food that we ate came
(04:10):
from somewhere, the plants thatwe were consuming came from
somewhere.
They lived and they experiencedtheir own plant-based life, but
they had their own experiences.
So it was really important tome to figure out where those
experiences started and why Iwas so removed from that
experience, being in an urbanenvironment.
(04:32):
So, as a writer, it was reallyimportant to me to make sure
that people understood you don'thave to grow all of your own
plant allies.
It's beautiful if you have theopportunity, but if you are
living in an urban environmentyou don't have space for a
window box or you don't playwith indoor plants.
It's still really important thatyou understand you can have a
(04:55):
relationship with plant allies,whether or not you grow your own
plants, whether or not you havethat first-hand experience.
There are so many ways ofmaking those connections.
You can cook with herbs, youcan diffuse aromatherapy oils.
You can build thoserelationships and they're not
dependent on your finances,necessarily, your biome, your
(05:19):
your country of origin and insome cases, when we're talking
about sacred plant magic, youdon't even need the physical
plant material present to havethat connection.
You can develop relationshipswith the spirits of plants and
get to know them as entitieswith their own agency and
understanding of the world, andexperience their, their lives,
(05:43):
without necessarily relying on abunch of rosemary that you got
from the grocery store producesection.
Finbarre Snarey (05:49):
Is there a special way of preparing the
seeds or the plants before itgoes into the earth, or do you
just trust in the naturalprocess?
Amy Blackthorn (05:58):
Well, a little bit of both.
When it's time to plant theseeds, when it's time for them
to germinate, I will tell them.
I want to wake them up.
I want them to know thatthey're being honored as new
life in my garden, in my yard,in my recipes.
So I'll let them know.
I'll give the seeds a littlepat and tell them the things
(06:18):
that I hope that they can growup to be.
These seeds are rosemary seedsand I want you to have the
knowledge and understanding ofconnection and remembrance and
offerings.
I I love to cozy up withrosemary milk in my tea in the
morning.
There's, there's always goingto be, something that's greater
(06:41):
than the sum of our parts,before I even plant them in the
ground, trying to think ofplants that have traveled with
me and they've changed.
Finbarre Snarey (06:48):
I mean that.
I mean when I was very small, Iwould, I would love all the
pretty plants.
I would like your, yourgerberas, I'd like your tulips,
tulips especially.
Um, the particular part of thecountry that I live in has these
big victorian era parks filledwith tulips.
But now I like, I like thescratty plants, I like the, the
raggy ones, especially ragwort,any plant that you could get in
(07:12):
a meadow that attracts bugs.
Amy Blackthorn (07:15):
These are the plants that I like now.
Pollinators are so beneficialbecause they're they're not just
looking at how can we be ofservice to you.
We're attracting thepollinators that allow other
things to grow.
We think of pollinators asbeing a daytime event, because
we're out in our gardens at thatpoint, but there are so many
(07:35):
things that pollinate in thedarkness.
They allow us to grow.
Finbarre Snarey (07:40):
Can you give an example?
I wasn't aware of that.
I assume it is a daytimeactivity.
Amy Blackthorn (07:46):
Yes, most people do.
Bats are are very good atpollinating their, their flower
friends.
Uh, a lot of the moths arestill eating because they're
nighttime, they're, they're outand about they're, they're,
they're still hungry.
So, yeah, bats and moths umdifferent, for they're so
excited to be out and andpollinating our gardens.
Finbarre Snarey (08:04):
I was um, I was gripped by this image of just
happy moths darting from fromflower to flower.
That is a delightful image.
During my lunch break I'lloften even in you know the
depths of winter.
I'd like to sit in the middleof a meadow and just look around
me.
And you know, see the.
You know the various bugs dotheir thing, not so much in
(08:25):
winter, but that's when youstart getting things like your
birds of prey appearing in thesky.
You get the occasional pheasantvisible.
I feel that it's cleansing istoo much of a probably a woo
term, but it feels vital to bein that kind of environment
every so often.
Amy Blackthorn (08:40):
The body craves it and I can't quite articulate
what it is that the body needsbut it just feels right to be
(09:08):
able to identify it in everyportion of the year, and so it
really gives me a time toconnect with the, not just the
landscape, not the visuals, butthe emotional connection in my
heart for the lands that I'msitting on let's find out what
the next card has in store.
Finbarre Snarey (09:27):
I've been shuffling away merrily while
you've been speaking, so whenyou're ready, tell me when to
cut the deck.
Amy Blackthorn (09:38):
Oh, it's the Ace of Wands.
Finbarre Snarey (09:41):
Ace of Wands.
Okay, could you describe thatto me and give me an idea of
what the meaning means to you ofthe Ace of Wands?
And give me an idea of what themeaning means to you of the Ace
of Wands?
Amy Blackthorn (09:48):
A cloud has burst forth with a hand holding
a long stick.
The neat thing about it is it'sgot very small leaves that are
coming from it, so you can tellthat it's a living thing that
it's coming forth.
Right now.
The background is actuallyquite far away.
You can see it.
It's small enough in thedistance that you'd have to walk
(10:11):
for a day or two to get to thatspace.
So it tells us that it's notjust an idea.
These projects are taking theirtime, coming forward.
They're coming now so you canactually work for that
attainment, something that comesin the future, where the
journey tells us that it's notsomething that's happening right
(10:33):
this minute, that the projectis being born.
Now the idea, the intuition isguiding us towards our final
goal, but it's not the goalitself.
Finbarre Snarey (10:44):
My understanding of this particular
card, the Ace of Wands, is it'ssomething that is inviting you
to say yes to the fire within.
So the question I'm going toask you is what got you excited
about plant magic, and do youstill feel the same excitement?
Amy Blackthorn (11:07):
Oh, my fire, that passion to dealing with
plants.
When I was probably in thethird grade, we moved from the
inner city Baltimore to thecounty and so we actually had
some land to have a garden andreally have the space that I was
yearning for as a smaller child, looking for something to play
(11:28):
with, the space that I wasyearning for as a smaller child
looking for something to playwith.
So we've gone from the smallerprimary school understanding of
what's happening to having somereally open spaces to sort of
experience and investigate, andso we've moved into this home.
In the garden there is a plantwith beautiful fuchsia flowers
(11:50):
and I'm thinking this isbeautiful.
I've seen flowers on TV, I'veseen flowers in places, but
we've never had access to them.
And so I sat down in front ofthis azalea I didn't know it, of
course, at that time and I seethis hot pink flower and I'm
just gazing into the center ofthis flower.
And I'm just gazing into thecenter of this flower trying to
(12:10):
understand what it is, what itrepresents, what it does, and
when I brushed my fingers acrossthe flower, the flower cup just
falls out wholesale, falls atmy feet, and inside this smaller
cup that holds the flower is aseed, and that seed it was like
(12:33):
the universe downloaded into mybrain as an eight-year-old going
wait, flowers make seeds tomake plants, to make more
flowers.
And I'm utterly fascinated withthe way that the cycle of the
world works.
It's not just things grow andthey die, they make the next
iteration of themselves for thenext bit of cycle.
(12:53):
So it's not just living or notliving.
There's that secondary piecethat allows us to understand
that there is something else.
There is something beyond ourown experience experience.
These azaleas were there beforeI moved in.
Someone had planted them andthose seeds, being pollinated,
can make more seeds, whether wewere here or not.
(13:15):
That azalea could keep creatingseeds to keep creating other
azaleas.
And so that fire, that passion,that understanding was so
important to eight-year-old methat I immediately started doing
chores for the neighbors so Icould get pocket change to make
my own garden myself.
And so I bought soil and Ibought a window box and I bought
(13:39):
some petunias, because theysmelled nice and they were very
pretty, and I said, okay, I'mgoing to do this, I'm going to
be part of something, and that'swhat drives me to write to this
day.
I want to be part of somethingand the natural order of things
really feels like it's not justsomething that's greater than
myself.
It allows all of us to haveownership and pride in where we
(14:04):
are, the grounds that we'reliving on at that point, and a
way to connect us to the groundsthat we're living on.
Finbarre Snarey (14:11):
Presumably, you have a small, medium, large
size garden, but you have agrowing space near your house.
Is that right?
Oh, yes, and could you tell mewhat kind of plants you
currently have growing there?
Amy Blackthorn (14:25):
Yes, oh, my goodness, I have a.
There's an acre of land aroundmy home.
So an acre, yeah, there's somegood space.
And my home backs up to anature preserve, so deer and
foxes and frogs and all sorts ofwildlife just wander through
the yard all seasons.
So it was really important tomake sure that there was
(14:47):
something for those guests tonod on, because they were
definitely going to go after mygarden if I gave them the chance
.
I have one side of the housethat right now, of course, it's
winter, but in the spring willbe beautifully coated in mugwort
, which is a boundary plantwhich gives us the ability to
walk between the worlds theworld where we are and the world
(15:10):
where we, you know, spend someof our time.
But the front of the house ismostly it's a tea garden, so
there's all sorts of differentmints there's orange, apple,
chocolate and peppermint.
There's a lot of lemon balmbecause it's very calming, it's
a sedative plant.
So if you're feeling stressedout from your day, especially in
(15:32):
the height of summer when, atleast here in Delaware, it can
be hot and sticky and miserable,so it sort of brings down the
excitability that lives in ourbodies when we're a little bit
warmer and I actually make a lotof lemonade with that lemon
balm, so it's sedative, it helpssmooth out the grumpies when
(15:52):
we're in the height of summerand it can be.
Oh goodness.
One of my best friends in thewhole world lived in New
Yorkshire for 10 years and Istill have a hard time with
Fahrenheit versus Celsius.
It was this summer we had oh mygoodness, it was 127 degrees at
one point.
Finbarre Snarey (16:11):
So to me I have no idea what that is, but that
sounds hellish.
Yes, yes, it is.
Amy Blackthorn (16:18):
She lived in Yorkshire.
She could say, oh, it's 18degrees and I'm like, oh wait, I
need math.
Why it does take a minute toswitch back 18 degrees in
Yorkshire is high summer.
Finbarre Snarey (16:32):
Normally it it feels probably a lot chillier
than it is.
I mean, it's.
Yorkshire is a wonderful place,obviously bronte country, but
you often get these big, ominous, overcast skies.
Um, the weather is extremelychangeable and I would say it
always feels about 13, 14degrees or so.
Amy Blackthorn (16:49):
Yeah, I did the math, it is 127 degrees.
Fahrenheit is 52 Celsius.
Finbarre Snarey (16:56):
Okay, well, there was a day a few years ago
in my country where I think weapproached 40, 41, 42, something
like that, and it's likesomething from a zombie
apocalypse film People puttinglarge pieces of cardboard over
their windows and making theflimsiest barricade to try, and
you know, keep some of the heatout.
But that's a.
(17:16):
That's a temperature I wouldjust fry.
I would just be a puddle of me.
Amy Blackthorn (17:20):
Yes, they would just melt into a puddle and my
goodness.
And people think, oh well, youhave air conditioning, so that
should be fine.
No, we're air conditioning itto the temperatures that people
are boarding up their windowsfor.
Oh, my goodness, it was, we'llsay, 75 in the kitchen during
the summer, so that's 23.
Finbarre Snarey (17:41):
So we're air conditioning it to get to 23 to
see, and when it hits those kindof temperatures, what was your
pet up to?
Did you bring them in?
Amy Blackthorn (17:51):
Oh yes, millie, Thick them in the fridge.
Finbarre Snarey (17:56):
Don't put your pets in the fridge.
Amy Blackthorn (17:58):
Don't do that.
I actually have a coolingblanket that I would leave in
the refrigerator and so bring itout and let her lay on it just
to try and keep cool because, mygoodness it's those
temperatures are reallydangerous for anything that's
alive.
So it was really important assomeone who spends as much time
as I do in the garden, spends asmuch time with the plants as I
(18:21):
do to sort of make sure that theones that were the going to
have the hardest time with thatheat have some extra water, have
some extra fertilizer to dealwith the stress of how those
things are going to play outyeah, it's a beautiful idea of
um, paying back, uh to nature,especially the idea of you
(18:43):
having the space where all ofthese creatures, no matter what
they are, can stop as if it wasa cafe, just spend a little bit
of time and then heading off ontheir own little journeys.
Finbarre Snarey (18:53):
I, yeah, that is a beautiful idea.
I, I have to say my garden ishalf feral.
I mean, it's just thisovergrown nonsense towards the
end and the rest of it'ssemi-manicured.
It depends on how bothered Ican feel about it at the time.
But you have inspired me toactually think about what could
benefit the local foxes any, Ishould say any frogs coming.
(19:17):
We have newts in the pond.
Every so often there tends tobe this war going on between
sometimes it's the frog,sometimes it's the newts.
They'll try and hold the pondas their territory.
What would you recommend fornewts?
Are these are crested newts, Ibelieve beautiful?
Amy Blackthorn (19:32):
um, they want more shallow spaces.
So I usually get a large dishfull of marbles or small stones.
It's shallow enough that theycan wander around.
They can cool their bodies aswell as have a drink.
The frogs, we do the same thing.
So, uh, I leave that lead outlarge platters or even chargers
(19:53):
and fill them with stones.
They're also great for keepingthe bees.
They can stop and get a littlebit of water, because they'll
land on the stone.
Instead of falling into thewater and hurting themselves,
they can land on the stones andstop for a drink.
So pollinator stations andwatering holes, so to speak,
definitely really important forall of that nature and all that
(20:14):
wildlife.
Finbarre Snarey (20:15):
Okay, it's time for the third card, the last
one.
Here I am shuffling away.
As before, same rules apply,just say stop.
Amy Blackthorn (20:24):
Stop Right, the the harsh snow falling.
They are, they're bundled andthey're sort of, uh, trying to
figure out the best way to bothstay warm and make time headed
(20:45):
to where they're they're going.
They're illuminated by a churchwindow filled with five
pentacles, so they're goldenstars lighting their way, uh, as
the two figures make their waytowards the understanding of the
next location yeah, the uh.
Finbarre Snarey (21:02):
The last time I had this card I was actually
sat out in the meadow in thesnow.
I did feel rather spooky.
So to me, the five of pentaclesis I think it's a call for
re-evaluation um what sustainsyou and how you can find a
balance between material andspiritual needs.
So five of pentacles, shall weask you.
(21:24):
Okay, have you faced difficulttimes in your career and how did
you recover?
Amy Blackthorn (21:33):
Oh goodness, growing up as a very poor child,
I definitely had some concernsover being an author and what
that meant fiscally.
Because most people go to a jobnine to five and they get paid
to be there.
They get a paycheck weekly,bi-weekly, monthly, what have
(21:53):
you and it gives you a sense ofstability.
But writing as an author, youdon't get paid to write.
I do this because I love it.
But one of the things thatpeople don't understand about
the way that this work as anartist comes is once you sell
(22:15):
something, whether it's afiction, nonfiction.
Once you've sold it, you'rebeing recouped in royalties.
So after we'll say six monthsis very common.
So twice a year I'll get apaycheck that says, okay, you've
sold this many copies and yourportion of that is X.
(22:36):
Be really scary to sort offigure out what those
limitations offer us in terms offinancial support and the way
that we are executing, not justthe day-to-day tasks.
But how can I connect who I amto my spiritual self through the
medium of being paid for mywork?
It can be intensely scary, asyou know, the lack is what
(23:03):
really concerns me.
As a person who was, Iexperienced homelessness as a
child.
There was a lot of issues withwill we have food tomorrow?
Over my own life and my ownexperiences, my idea is usually
(23:25):
okay, I'll stock up, I'll makesure that the pantry is full.
I'll feel more comfortable if Ihave X amount of food in my
storage.
But as someone who gets paidtwice a year, it definitely
makes it more difficult to say,okay, what is it that I am
needing and what is it that Ijust would like to have?
What are my needs versus mywants?
It makes it really important tostop and say okay, what is the
idea that I have?
(23:46):
As far as want, what is a need?
Because there's no longer justa safety net, because the job
that I do is full-time, Ivolunteer, I do a lot of
different organization helpsthat I do is full-time, I
volunteer, I do a lot ofdifferent organization helps
that I do.
I'm writing full-time.
Is this something that's goingto pay the bills?
(24:09):
Is this something that's goingto put that effort into
something?
Are people going to appreciatethe way I'm talking about?
And so it can be scary.
Finbarre Snarey (24:19):
As you're saying that and as I'm watching
your expression, it's as ifyou're revisiting some of those
moments, and thank you forsharing those.
Amy Blackthorn (24:26):
Absolutely.
Finbarre Snarey (24:27):
Do you feel?
Now I'm trying to think of whatthe words would be.
Do you pay homage to that pastself through your magic, through
your practice?
And how do you express that?
Thanks if you do, assuming thatyou do I do, I do I very.
Amy Blackthorn (24:45):
It's very important to me to not only stop
and understand how lucky I amto be where I am today, because
there are a lot of voices whodon't get to be heard.
Because of the finite resourcesthat publishing has, it can
really take away some of themore diverse voices that we have
(25:07):
that I would really love tohave the opportunity to talk, to
, listen to and learn from,because those voices have to be
working a nine-to-five job andthey have kids and they have
experiences.
Experiences and they havethings that need to be handled
that don't include sitting downto write a story or write a
novel.
When I'm writing, it is reallyimportant, especially as a
(25:30):
magical practitioner, toemphasize that the things that
we do sometimes can requiredifferent materials.
So people say, okay, I'm doinga spell and I want, I need a red
candle and I need this oil andthat material.
There are a lot of people whodon't have access to it.
They don't have a shop nearthem where they can procure
(25:51):
supplies from.
They don't have the cash to payfor the supplies that they
would really like to have.
So it's important in every bookthat I write that I remind the
people who are reading thatthese are nice things to have,
but the magic lives within eachof us.
The cards that we read, thebooks that we discern pull the
(26:11):
three of blues from the Rhythmand Soul Tarot of the three of
cups really gives us theopportunity to listen and learn
and enjoy each other's company.
But it doesn't have to involveany cost at all.
Magic doesn't require you topurchase beautiful books and
candles and oils and materialsthose are the things that keep
(26:35):
the inner three-year-old happywhere glitter and gum and candy
and crayons.
But the magic lives within eachperson who is present, in their
time, in their energy, in theirspace, in their home.
That's what gives us access tomagic.
It's not the material thing.
Finbarre Snarey (26:54):
Amy Blackthorne .
Thank you so much for joiningus on Tarot Interviews.
If you're inspired by AmyBlackthorne's wisdom, be sure to
check out her book Sacred PlantMagic, and we'll see you in the
next episode.
And we're done.
T Welcome to Tarot Interviews, where we
uncover the stories and insightsof fascinating individuals
through the lens of the tarot.
Today, I'm thrilled to welcomeAmy Blackthorn, a best-selling
(00:40):
author, renowned herbalist,famous for books like
Blackthorn's Botanical Magic andSacred Smoke.
With a deep love of nature anda lifetime of experience in the
green arts, amy has inspired herreaders to connect with plants
for healing, growth andtransformation.
Amy Blackthorn, welcome to theshow.
How are you today?
Amy Blackthorn (01:00):
Oh, my goodness, thank you so much for having me
.
I'm great.
I've been working with perfumeall day, so I'm just happy as a
clam.
(01:22):
That way, people have animmersive experience as to the
tarot that they're experiencing,or the magic that they're
understanding, and how to bringthat forth from themselves by
involving as many senses as youcan to really not just
experience that thing butconnect it to the other parts of
your senses so you can reallyingrain that learning that
(01:45):
you're doing.
Finbarre Snarey (01:47):
Amy Blackthorn, you are an olfactory oracle so,
as you're aware, we're here todeal some cards, make some
questions and see what comes out.
I have the Rider Waite in myhand, I'm going to shuffle this
and then I'd like you to saystop, are you ready?
Amy Blackthorn (02:06):
I can see, oh my goodness, the six of cups.
Finbarre Snarey (02:09):
So, gazing upon the six of cups, could you
describe what you see and yourfirst impressions of this card?
Amy Blackthorn (02:16):
Absolutely, there is a farmer's market in my
little world.
In my little world, uh, thevendors got a cup that is filled
with beautiful flowers, sometudor roses and some different,
uh, greenery, and they'reholding it forth to the person
looking at this fine arrangement, uh, warmly, because they're
(02:38):
they're little earmuffs, uh, butI always, I always, take this
card, um in spreads to make surethat people understand that
their emotional health and theiremotional well-being is
something that deserves its owntime and energy.
And you have to make time forthat, because otherwise this
world will eat you alive.
Finbarre Snarey (02:56):
Yeah, for me it's that reminder to embrace
joy.
Okay, so the question I havefor you is how has your past
influenced your love of plants?
Amy Blackthorn (03:05):
Oh goodness.
So I was born in Baltimore Cityand I lived my formative years
in a very industrialized area.
The elementary school where wewent to play had a paved parking
lot.
There was no grass, there wasno trees you know one tree per
block sort of neighborhood andso going through our backyard
(03:27):
there wasn't a lot ofbiodiversity, but there was.
I found at probably kindergartenage, this little mint plant
that some that a previous tenantin our apartment had planted,
and so I was trying to figureout, like why does this smell so
good?
Why is this different than allthe other plants out here in
kindergarten?
My goodness, yeah, I'm aboutfour or five years old and I go
(03:49):
and I talk to my mother and Isay, okay, why does this smell
good?
Why is this amazing?
Why is this important to me?
She says you know the mint icecream and the mint candies that
you really enjoy.
This is where that stuff comesfrom.
And this was my first experienceas a child growing up in a very
urban city, of understandingthat the food that we ate came
(04:10):
from somewhere, the plants thatwe were consuming came from
somewhere.
They lived and they experiencedtheir own plant-based life, but
they had their own experiences.
So it was really important tome to figure out where those
experiences started and why Iwas so removed from that
experience, being in an urbanenvironment.
(04:32):
So, as a writer, it was reallyimportant to me to make sure
that people understood you don'thave to grow all of your own
plant allies.
It's beautiful if you have theopportunity, but if you are
living in an urban environmentyou don't have space for a
window box or you don't playwith indoor plants.
It's still really important thatyou understand you can have a
(04:55):
relationship with plant allies,whether or not you grow your own
plants, whether or not you havethat first-hand experience.
There are so many ways ofmaking those connections.
You can cook with herbs, youcan diffuse aromatherapy oils.
You can build thoserelationships and they're not
dependent on your finances,necessarily, your biome, your
(05:19):
your country of origin and insome cases, when we're talking
about sacred plant magic, youdon't even need the physical
plant material present to havethat connection.
You can develop relationshipswith the spirits of plants and
get to know them as entitieswith their own agency and
understanding of the world, andexperience their, their lives,
(05:43):
without necessarily relying on abunch of rosemary that you got
from the grocery store producesection.
Finbarre Snarey (05:49):
Is there a special way of preparing the
seeds or the plants before itgoes into the earth, or do you
just trust in the naturalprocess?
Amy Blackthorn (05:58):
Well, a little bit of both.
When it's time to plant theseeds, when it's time for them
to germinate, I will tell them.
I want to wake them up.
I want them to know thatthey're being honored as new
life in my garden, in my yard,in my recipes.
So I'll let them know.
I'll give the seeds a littlepat and tell them the things
(06:18):
that I hope that they can growup to be.
These seeds are rosemary seedsand I want you to have the
knowledge and understanding ofconnection and remembrance and
offerings.
I I love to cozy up withrosemary milk in my tea in the
morning.
There's, there's always goingto be, something that's greater
(06:41):
than the sum of our parts,before I even plant them in the
ground, trying to think ofplants that have traveled with
me and they've changed.
Finbarre Snarey (06:48):
I mean that.
I mean when I was very small, Iwould, I would love all the
pretty plants.
I would like your, yourgerberas, I'd like your tulips,
tulips especially.
Um, the particular part of thecountry that I live in has these
big victorian era parks filledwith tulips.
But now I like, I like thescratty plants, I like the, the
raggy ones, especially ragwort,any plant that you could get in
(07:12):
a meadow that attracts bugs.
Amy Blackthorn (07:15):
These are the plants that I like now.
Pollinators are so beneficialbecause they're they're not just
looking at how can we be ofservice to you.
We're attracting thepollinators that allow other
things to grow.
We think of pollinators asbeing a daytime event, because
we're out in our gardens at thatpoint, but there are so many
(07:35):
things that pollinate in thedarkness.
They allow us to grow.
Finbarre Snarey (07:40):
Can you give an example?
I wasn't aware of that.
I assume it is a daytimeactivity.
Amy Blackthorn (07:46):
Yes, most people do.
Bats are are very good atpollinating their, their flower
friends.
Uh, a lot of the moths arestill eating because they're
nighttime, they're, they're outand about they're, they're,
they're still hungry.
So, yeah, bats and moths umdifferent, for they're so
excited to be out and andpollinating our gardens.
Finbarre Snarey (08:04):
I was um, I was gripped by this image of just
happy moths darting from fromflower to flower.
That is a delightful image.
During my lunch break I'lloften even in you know the
depths of winter.
I'd like to sit in the middleof a meadow and just look around
me.
And you know, see the.
You know the various bugs dotheir thing, not so much in
(08:25):
winter, but that's when youstart getting things like your
birds of prey appearing in thesky.
You get the occasional pheasantvisible.
I feel that it's cleansing istoo much of a probably a woo
term, but it feels vital to bein that kind of environment
every so often.
Amy Blackthorn (08:40):
The body craves it and I can't quite articulate
what it is that the body needsbut it just feels right to be
(09:08):
able to identify it in everyportion of the year, and so it
really gives me a time toconnect with the, not just the
landscape, not the visuals, butthe emotional connection in my
heart for the lands that I'msitting on let's find out what
the next card has in store.
Finbarre Snarey (09:27):
I've been shuffling away merrily while
you've been speaking, so whenyou're ready, tell me when to
cut the deck.
Amy Blackthorn (09:38):
Oh, it's the Ace of Wands.
Finbarre Snarey (09:41):
Ace of Wands.
Okay, could you describe thatto me and give me an idea of
what the meaning means to you ofthe Ace of Wands?
And give me an idea of what themeaning means to you of the Ace
of Wands?
Amy Blackthorn (09:48):
A cloud has burst forth with a hand holding
a long stick.
The neat thing about it is it'sgot very small leaves that are
coming from it, so you can tellthat it's a living thing that
it's coming forth.
Right now.
The background is actuallyquite far away.
You can see it.
It's small enough in thedistance that you'd have to walk
(10:11):
for a day or two to get to thatspace.
So it tells us that it's notjust an idea.
These projects are taking theirtime, coming forward.
They're coming now so you canactually work for that
attainment, something that comesin the future, where the
journey tells us that it's notsomething that's happening right
(10:33):
this minute, that the projectis being born.
Now the idea, the intuition isguiding us towards our final
goal, but it's not the goalitself.
Finbarre Snarey (10:44):
My understanding of this particular
card, the Ace of Wands, is it'ssomething that is inviting you
to say yes to the fire within.
So the question I'm going toask you is what got you excited
about plant magic, and do youstill feel the same excitement?
Amy Blackthorn (11:07):
Oh, my fire, that passion to dealing with
plants.
When I was probably in thethird grade, we moved from the
inner city Baltimore to thecounty and so we actually had
some land to have a garden andreally have the space that I was
yearning for as a smaller child, looking for something to play
(11:28):
with, the space that I wasyearning for as a smaller child
looking for something to playwith.
So we've gone from the smallerprimary school understanding of
what's happening to having somereally open spaces to sort of
experience and investigate, andso we've moved into this home.
In the garden there is a plantwith beautiful fuchsia flowers
(11:50):
and I'm thinking this isbeautiful.
I've seen flowers on TV, I'veseen flowers in places, but
we've never had access to them.
And so I sat down in front ofthis azalea I didn't know it, of
course, at that time and I seethis hot pink flower and I'm
just gazing into the center ofthis flower.
And I'm just gazing into thecenter of this flower trying to
(12:10):
understand what it is, what itrepresents, what it does, and
when I brushed my fingers acrossthe flower, the flower cup just
falls out wholesale, falls atmy feet, and inside this smaller
cup that holds the flower is aseed, and that seed it was like
(12:33):
the universe downloaded into mybrain as an eight-year-old going
wait, flowers make seeds tomake plants, to make more
flowers.
And I'm utterly fascinated withthe way that the cycle of the
world works.
It's not just things grow andthey die, they make the next
iteration of themselves for thenext bit of cycle.
(12:53):
So it's not just living or notliving.
There's that secondary piecethat allows us to understand
that there is something else.
There is something beyond ourown experience experience.
These azaleas were there beforeI moved in.
Someone had planted them andthose seeds, being pollinated,
can make more seeds, whether wewere here or not.
(13:15):
That azalea could keep creatingseeds to keep creating other
azaleas.
And so that fire, that passion,that understanding was so
important to eight-year-old methat I immediately started doing
chores for the neighbors so Icould get pocket change to make
my own garden myself.
And so I bought soil and Ibought a window box and I bought
(13:39):
some petunias, because theysmelled nice and they were very
pretty, and I said, okay, I'mgoing to do this, I'm going to
be part of something, and that'swhat drives me to write to this
day.
I want to be part of somethingand the natural order of things
really feels like it's not justsomething that's greater than
myself.
It allows all of us to haveownership and pride in where we
(14:04):
are, the grounds that we'reliving on at that point, and a
way to connect us to the groundsthat we're living on.
Finbarre Snarey (14:11):
Presumably, you have a small, medium, large
size garden, but you have agrowing space near your house.
Is that right?
Oh, yes, and could you tell mewhat kind of plants you
currently have growing there?
Amy Blackthorn (14:25):
Yes, oh, my goodness, I have a.
There's an acre of land aroundmy home.
So an acre, yeah, there's somegood space.
And my home backs up to anature preserve, so deer and
foxes and frogs and all sorts ofwildlife just wander through
the yard all seasons.
So it was really important tomake sure that there was
(14:47):
something for those guests tonod on, because they were
definitely going to go after mygarden if I gave them the chance
.
I have one side of the housethat right now, of course, it's
winter, but in the spring willbe beautifully coated in mugwort
, which is a boundary plantwhich gives us the ability to
walk between the worlds theworld where we are and the world
(15:10):
where we, you know, spend someof our time.
But the front of the house ismostly it's a tea garden, so
there's all sorts of differentmints there's orange, apple,
chocolate and peppermint.
There's a lot of lemon balmbecause it's very calming, it's
a sedative plant.
So if you're feeling stressedout from your day, especially in
(15:32):
the height of summer when, atleast here in Delaware, it can
be hot and sticky and miserable,so it sort of brings down the
excitability that lives in ourbodies when we're a little bit
warmer and I actually make a lotof lemonade with that lemon
balm, so it's sedative, it helpssmooth out the grumpies when
(15:52):
we're in the height of summerand it can be.
Oh goodness.
One of my best friends in thewhole world lived in New
Yorkshire for 10 years and Istill have a hard time with
Fahrenheit versus Celsius.
It was this summer we had oh mygoodness, it was 127 degrees at
one point.
Finbarre Snarey (16:11):
So to me I have no idea what that is, but that
sounds hellish.
Yes, yes, it is.
Amy Blackthorn (16:18):
She lived in Yorkshire.
She could say, oh, it's 18degrees and I'm like, oh wait, I
need math.
Why it does take a minute toswitch back 18 degrees in
Yorkshire is high summer.
Finbarre Snarey (16:32):
Normally it it feels probably a lot chillier
than it is.
I mean, it's.
Yorkshire is a wonderful place,obviously bronte country, but
you often get these big, ominous, overcast skies.
Um, the weather is extremelychangeable and I would say it
always feels about 13, 14degrees or so.
Amy Blackthorn (16:49):
Yeah, I did the math, it is 127 degrees.
Fahrenheit is 52 Celsius.
Finbarre Snarey (16:56):
Okay, well, there was a day a few years ago
in my country where I think weapproached 40, 41, 42, something
like that, and it's likesomething from a zombie
apocalypse film People puttinglarge pieces of cardboard over
their windows and making theflimsiest barricade to try, and
you know, keep some of the heatout.
But that's a.
(17:16):
That's a temperature I wouldjust fry.
I would just be a puddle of me.
Amy Blackthorn (17:20):
Yes, they would just melt into a puddle and my
goodness.
And people think, oh well, youhave air conditioning, so that
should be fine.
No, we're air conditioning itto the temperatures that people
are boarding up their windowsfor.
Oh, my goodness, it was, we'llsay, 75 in the kitchen during
the summer, so that's 23.
Finbarre Snarey (17:41):
So we're air conditioning it to get to 23 to
see, and when it hits those kindof temperatures, what was your
pet up to?
Did you bring them in?
Amy Blackthorn (17:51):
Oh yes, millie, Thick them in the fridge.
Finbarre Snarey (17:56):
Don't put your pets in the fridge.
Amy Blackthorn (17:58):
Don't do that.
I actually have a coolingblanket that I would leave in
the refrigerator and so bring itout and let her lay on it just
to try and keep cool because, mygoodness it's those
temperatures are reallydangerous for anything that's
alive.
So it was really important assomeone who spends as much time
as I do in the garden, spends asmuch time with the plants as I
(18:21):
do to sort of make sure that theones that were the going to
have the hardest time with thatheat have some extra water, have
some extra fertilizer to dealwith the stress of how those
things are going to play outyeah, it's a beautiful idea of
um, paying back, uh to nature,especially the idea of you
(18:43):
having the space where all ofthese creatures, no matter what
they are, can stop as if it wasa cafe, just spend a little bit
of time and then heading off ontheir own little journeys.
Finbarre Snarey (18:53):
I, yeah, that is a beautiful idea.
I, I have to say my garden ishalf feral.
I mean, it's just thisovergrown nonsense towards the
end and the rest of it'ssemi-manicured.
It depends on how bothered Ican feel about it at the time.
But you have inspired me toactually think about what could
benefit the local foxes any, Ishould say any frogs coming.
(19:17):
We have newts in the pond.
Every so often there tends tobe this war going on between
sometimes it's the frog,sometimes it's the newts.
They'll try and hold the pondas their territory.
What would you recommend fornewts?
Are these are crested newts, Ibelieve beautiful?
Amy Blackthorn (19:32):
um, they want more shallow spaces.
So I usually get a large dishfull of marbles or small stones.
It's shallow enough that theycan wander around.
They can cool their bodies aswell as have a drink.
The frogs, we do the same thing.
So, uh, I leave that lead outlarge platters or even chargers
(19:53):
and fill them with stones.
They're also great for keepingthe bees.
They can stop and get a littlebit of water, because they'll
land on the stone.
Instead of falling into thewater and hurting themselves,
they can land on the stones andstop for a drink.
So pollinator stations andwatering holes, so to speak,
definitely really important forall of that nature and all that
(20:14):
wildlife.
Finbarre Snarey (20:15):
Okay, it's time for the third card, the last
one.
Here I am shuffling away.
As before, same rules apply,just say stop.
Amy Blackthorn (20:24):
Stop Right, the the harsh snow falling.
They are, they're bundled andthey're sort of, uh, trying to
figure out the best way to bothstay warm and make time headed
(20:45):
to where they're they're going.
They're illuminated by a churchwindow filled with five
pentacles, so they're goldenstars lighting their way, uh, as
the two figures make their waytowards the understanding of the
next location yeah, the uh.
Finbarre Snarey (21:02):
The last time I had this card I was actually
sat out in the meadow in thesnow.
I did feel rather spooky.
So to me, the five of pentaclesis I think it's a call for
re-evaluation um what sustainsyou and how you can find a
balance between material andspiritual needs.
So five of pentacles, shall weask you.
(21:24):
Okay, have you faced difficulttimes in your career and how did
you recover?
Amy Blackthorn (21:33):
Oh goodness, growing up as a very poor child,
I definitely had some concernsover being an author and what
that meant fiscally.
Because most people go to a jobnine to five and they get paid
to be there.
They get a paycheck weekly,bi-weekly, monthly, what have
(21:53):
you and it gives you a sense ofstability.
But writing as an author, youdon't get paid to write.
I do this because I love it.
But one of the things thatpeople don't understand about
the way that this work as anartist comes is once you sell
(22:15):
something, whether it's afiction, nonfiction.
Once you've sold it, you'rebeing recouped in royalties.
So after we'll say six monthsis very common.
So twice a year I'll get apaycheck that says, okay, you've
sold this many copies and yourportion of that is X.
(22:36):
Be really scary to sort offigure out what those
limitations offer us in terms offinancial support and the way
that we are executing, not justthe day-to-day tasks.
But how can I connect who I amto my spiritual self through the
medium of being paid for mywork?
It can be intensely scary, asyou know, the lack is what
(23:03):
really concerns me.
As a person who was, Iexperienced homelessness as a
child.
There was a lot of issues withwill we have food tomorrow?
Over my own life and my ownexperiences, my idea is usually
(23:25):
okay, I'll stock up, I'll makesure that the pantry is full.
I'll feel more comfortable if Ihave X amount of food in my
storage.
But as someone who gets paidtwice a year, it definitely
makes it more difficult to say,okay, what is it that I am
needing and what is it that Ijust would like to have?
What are my needs versus mywants?
It makes it really important tostop and say okay, what is the
idea that I have?
(23:46):
As far as want, what is a need?
Because there's no longer justa safety net, because the job
that I do is full-time, Ivolunteer, I do a lot of
different organization helpsthat I do is full-time, I
volunteer, I do a lot ofdifferent organization helps
that I do.
I'm writing full-time.
Is this something that's goingto pay the bills?
(24:09):
Is this something that's goingto put that effort into
something?
Are people going to appreciatethe way I'm talking about?
And so it can be scary.
Finbarre Snarey (24:19):
As you're saying that and as I'm watching
your expression, it's as ifyou're revisiting some of those
moments, and thank you forsharing those.
Amy Blackthorn (24:26):
Absolutely.
Finbarre Snarey (24:27):
Do you feel?
Now I'm trying to think of whatthe words would be.
Do you pay homage to that pastself through your magic, through
your practice?
And how do you express that?
Thanks if you do, assuming thatyou do I do, I do I very.
Amy Blackthorn (24:45):
It's very important to me to not only stop
and understand how lucky I amto be where I am today, because
there are a lot of voices whodon't get to be heard.
Because of the finite resourcesthat publishing has, it can
really take away some of themore diverse voices that we have
(25:07):
that I would really love tohave the opportunity to talk, to
, listen to and learn from,because those voices have to be
working a nine-to-five job andthey have kids and they have
experiences.
Experiences and they havethings that need to be handled
that don't include sitting downto write a story or write a
novel.
When I'm writing, it is reallyimportant, especially as a
(25:30):
magical practitioner, toemphasize that the things that
we do sometimes can requiredifferent materials.
So people say, okay, I'm doinga spell and I want, I need a red
candle and I need this oil andthat material.
There are a lot of people whodon't have access to it.
They don't have a shop nearthem where they can procure
(25:51):
supplies from.
They don't have the cash to payfor the supplies that they
would really like to have.
So it's important in every bookthat I write that I remind the
people who are reading thatthese are nice things to have,
but the magic lives within eachof us.
The cards that we read, thebooks that we discern pull the
(26:11):
three of blues from the Rhythmand Soul Tarot of the three of
cups really gives us theopportunity to listen and learn
and enjoy each other's company.
But it doesn't have to involveany cost at all.
Magic doesn't require you topurchase beautiful books and
candles and oils and materialsthose are the things that keep
(26:35):
the inner three-year-old happywhere glitter and gum and candy
and crayons.
But the magic lives within eachperson who is present, in their
time, in their energy, in theirspace, in their home.
That's what gives us access tomagic.
It's not the material thing.
Finbarre Snarey (26:54):
Amy Blackthorne .
Thank you so much for joiningus on Tarot Interviews.
If you're inspired by AmyBlackthorne's wisdom, be sure to
check out her book Sacred PlantMagic, and we'll see you in the
next episode.
And we're done.
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