June 23, 2025 • 32 mins
Cassandra Snow is an author of Tarot & Occult books, full-time Tarot reader and creative witch about town. Their latest book project is Tarot In Other Words. This book is an essay anthology on queer tarot topics that Snow curated, edited and contributed to.
Order Tarot In Other Words now!
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- Host and producer: Finbarre Snarey
- Theme music composer: Amelia Lawn
- Additional music: Nicola Snarey
- Cover art: Rein G
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Episode Transcript
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Finbarre Snarey (00:20):
Tarot Interviews.
Welcome back to TarotInterviews.
Today, we're thrilled tointroduce Cassandra Snow, a
celebrated tarot reader, authorand educator, whose work shines
a light on the intersections ofspirituality, identity and
(00:43):
healing the intersections ofspirituality, identity and
healing.
Cassandra is the editor of thebook Tarot in Other Words, an
author of Queering the Tarot,where they skillfully blend
tarot and witchcraft with afocus on LGBTQ plus inclusivity,
mental health and personalempowerment.
They also teach tarot andfacilitate workshops helping
people to connect with theirintuition and explore their
personal journeys.
(01:03):
So join us as we explore thestories, insights and
inspirations behind Cassandra'spowerful work.
Cassandra how are you doing?
Cassandra Snow (01:12):
I am doing quite well.
Thank you so much.
How are you doing?
Finbarre Snarey (01:15):
I have a house of plague.
My wife has been stricken.
I unfortunately have a bit oflurgy, but hopefully you won't
be able to hear it too badly.
My wife is going to fly all theway to Barcelona see a friend.
They've not seen each other forsuch a long time.
They're going to celebrate.
I think it's the 15th year thatthey first met and sadly it's
all been cut short.
So, yes, I've been keeping thehouse ship shape and Bristol
(01:38):
fashion and playing with thekids.
We're playing split fiction atthe moment, but, yeah, it's
rather dull.
So you have brightened up myday, right?
Well, I have in my hand a tarotdeck which will need no
introduction.
What I'm going to do is I'mgoing to shuffle this while you
can see, and then I want you tokind of reach out from sorry,
whereabouts are you?
Cassandra Snow (01:57):
I am from Minneapolis, Minnesota.
Finbarre Snarey (02:00):
Minneapolis, so all the way from Minneapolis to
the UK.
I want you to reach out andthen, when you feel that the
right card is there, we'll splitthe deck and then we'll keep
going until we've got the cardthat you want.
Cassandra Snow (02:10):
Okay.
Finbarre Snarey (02:14):
Interesting.
Cassandra Snow (02:15):
Okay.
Finbarre Snarey (02:16):
So we're starting off with a Major Arcana
with the Hermit.
Yeah, what are your experienceswith this card, the Hermit?
What are your experiences withthis card?
Cassandra Snow (02:25):
I love the Hermit, so my queer platonic
partner is a Virgo and a lot ofastrological association with
that and the Hermit is always iswhat comes through for me.
I'm not always so strict aboutastrological correspondences
with the tarot and a lot oftimes when clients are like how
(02:51):
did you get that?
The answer is like intuition orvibes.
But because I'm so close withthis person, a lot of Virgo
stuff really comes through withthe hermit, specifically the
focus on.
I think when we think of thehermit we sometimes call to mind
almost like a messy guy livingin the middle of the woods.
But my experience with theastro correspondence is instead
like a focus on home and theyknow where everything is and
like they create, almost likewhen we were chatting before we
(03:14):
were recording about the empresscreating the lush garden and
everything around them.
The Hermit is similar to that,but with their home, and it
really is about not wanting toleave this gorgeous space
they've created, but being soopen to people coming to them
for wisdom or a cup of tea orwhatever it ends up being.
(03:34):
And so those are my initialthings when it comes up, I think
, if people are asking foradvice, alternatively I go very
modern, like time to unplug,time to get off the internet a
little bit, time to really goback into what's true for you,
but for me, with the Hermit, Iread about how we think that
they just mean the Hermit, butin a lot of decks and when you
(03:57):
look at the imagery, it doeslook like the Hermit is
returning to society aftertaking time to like go back to
his inner voice and stay there,and so I've been thinking a lot,
especially in the um,everything that we're in right
now in the world what would yousay that I don't know.
Finbarre Snarey (04:16):
Recent events have been unusual in any way you
know, I wish they were moreunusual.
Cassandra Snow (04:21):
At this point I'm feeling jaded and I think
one great thing about theinternet but it's why they're
trying to shut it down is you'relearning how awful everything
has always been, and we maybejust have more knowledge now.
But one thing I think aboutwith the hermit is okay, I'm
actually very good at beingboundary, taking time for myself
in spite of everything I havegoing on, and so this is when I
(04:44):
am like okay, it's time to leavemy house and bring something
I've learned out into the world,and so that's a lot of what has
been coming up for me and myclients for the Hermit lately.
Finbarre Snarey (04:55):
My first impressions upon seeing that
hermit card were casting my mindback to 2008.
And I was on the Isle of Skyeenjoying my honeymoon because,
in order to save up for a house,we decided to dispense with
spending any money on ourwedding at all.
All the honeymoon, we camped ona remote Scottish island wild
(05:17):
camp for two weeks.
I loved it, and one of the guysthat I met just randomly in the
supermarket was, you know,getting some groceries.
There was a chap called TomLeopard who unfortunately has
now passed away.
He was a gentleman who waswho'd modified his body so he
looked like a leopard.
He had leopard spots all overhim, he had he used to wear
(05:37):
contact lenses, he had littleclaws and I loved it.
I was just buying bread and Ilooked up and there's oh there's
Tom Leopard, the ScottishHermit, and it was a wonderful
experience.
I've also had the pleasure ofreading cards for people in a
city called Manchester in the UKand when I left one particular
(05:57):
bar, I dropped the Hermit card,unfortunately, and it fell into
a vent.
And I know this because when Icame back three years later I
was at the same table and wentoh, this is my card, and it had
just been hanging out by itselfall that time waiting for me to
come back that is wild.
I love that so, yes, I I do haveum very fond memories of the
(06:20):
hermit.
Now my question, based off this, is what insights have you
gained from self-reflectionabout being a spiritual guide?
Cassandra Snow (06:28):
I.
So I had a pretty roughupbringing and I think that when
I think of that sort of line ofquestioning, I think a lot
about how it's actually taken mea long time to come to terms
with people seeing me that way.
Like I was far more interestedin being like almost the
opposite of a lot ofprofessional tarot readers,
(06:48):
right, like I was very excitedwhen people came in just for fun
and then to wow them with someaccurate insight, but then they
would keep coming back andasking deeper and deeper
questions and I think, justbecause of my own self-esteem,
it took me a while to be like no, it's okay that you're a
spiritual guide, and so I thinka lot about the growth and the
(07:09):
inner work that it takes for alot of people to be okay with
that.
I think some people go intothis work wanting that and some
people go into it.
You know, in a lot of ways itwas just a survival mechanism
for me.
And then it was survival workwhen I started getting too sick
to stay in arts, admin and stuffand then so for me to come to
(07:30):
terms with being this like guideor leader for other people,
yeah, I think about the journeythat it took to just be okay
with myself and be comfortablewith it, and then, at the same
time, I was so free spirited atthat time that I didn't really
want that responsibility of likethe words I said really had
impact.
And so I think, almost like thesilly Spider-Man quote of like
(07:52):
with great power comes greatresponsibility, and so just
being very careful that I'mtrusting my own intuition as
well as my relationship with thecards and the client, whereas I
was maybe a little moreuncorked when I started, I
actually take time to think itthrough now.
So, yeah, to answer thequestion, I think so much of
what I think about is just thejourney it took to get there and
(08:14):
to be comfortable, feeling like, okay, I know what I do, I know
what I'm doing and it's cool ifpeople see me that way.
Finbarre Snarey (08:22):
Okay, what time do you take, if you do, to go
through that self-reflection, tosit and think back over
previous experiences and relearnsome of the things that you did
in the moment and how they mayhave affected other people?
Cassandra Snow (08:35):
I actually have a lot of mechanisms for this.
For some reason, mechanism'sthe word that I keep thinking of
today.
But I am a journaler.
I will say I have aseven-week-old in my journaling
practice since she's come aroundhas been.
It leaves much to be desired,but previously I was a really
good journaler, but I still.
(08:55):
One thing I've still done iskeeping my morning habits of
doing a little bit of spell work, just sitting and reflecting,
pulling a card for myself.
Sometimes for fun I'll pull onefor baby too, just to see what
kind of day we're going to have.
Yeah, and so I think I havethat.
I also am in therapy.
I also don't think thatprocessing always has to be
(09:16):
internal.
A lot of times people reallywant to put us into boxes like
introvert, extrovert, andintrovert means this and
whatever.
I am deeply introvertedvertedbut I'm actually an external
process, which is why therapyand journaling are so good for
me.
But it also is like I reflectby me and my girlfriend or me
and my queer platonic partnerhaving really deep, meaningful
(09:37):
conversations.
I reflect by being in communitywith other tarot card readers
and other writers who arewriting on similar topics and
having those conversations, andso it kind of runs the gamut,
and I think it's a more is bestsituation.
I also don't think one thingalways works.
Now, admittedly, I am sayingthis as someone with significant
(10:00):
you know diagnosed ADHD, but Ican't just process the same way
all the time.
Not only do I get kind of boredand want to jump out of my skin
, but I also, just like you,start meeting resistance.
I think if you're only goingabout things one way, you kind
of need to break cycles to getfresh perspective.
(10:20):
So I actually like having anumber of tools for that
fantastic right.
Finbarre Snarey (10:27):
We've learned an awful lot from the hermit,
and that's only the first cut.
We start with the major arcana,where we're going to go.
So back to the deck and, asbefore, tell me when to stop.
It is two cards.
Do you want the top one or thebottom one?
Cassandra Snow (10:46):
Let's do both, but let's start with the top one
.
Finbarre Snarey (10:49):
We're doing both.
Yeah, my goodness Right.
So they're coming.
Who knows what we're invitingin here.
Okay, right.
So which one did you want first?
Cassandra Snow (10:59):
The top.
Okay, can you see both.
Want first the top.
Okay, can you see both of those?
I can.
Finbarre Snarey (11:03):
The Fool and the Three of Wands.
That's the first time I've hada pair just spring unbidden from
the deck.
Cassandra Snow (11:08):
Yeah, fun.
Finbarre Snarey (11:09):
So again, we are looking at the Fool and the
Three of Wands.
Okay, as a professional tarotreader, how would you interpret
that one?
As a professional tarot reader,how would you interpret that
one?
Cassandra Snow (11:18):
So what comes up for me is absolutely my journey
to the Midwest of the US.
In the first place.
I was born in Baltimore,maryland.
I was primarily raised inSpartanburg, south Carolina, and
then I went to college in NorthCarolina and then I wanted
something so different and for alot of reasons there was the
(12:02):
pain that I sort of alluded toearlier, but there was also.
I just wanted somethingdifferent.
I wanted to see what else wasout there.
I started applying everywhereand I ended up at a wonderful,
adorable little small school inIowa that was still Christian,
but it was ECLA Lutheran, whichis a much more progressive
denomination.
And yeah, with the three ofwands I often think of travel
I often think of new adventuresand those aren't my only
(12:23):
associations with them, butespecially when they're coming
up together, to me this is like,oh, this is me packing all of
me and my queer platonic partnerstuff into what would fit in
their Honda and driving halfwayacross the country to finish
school and really reinventourselves in a lot of ways.
And then, with the Three ofWands, I always think about what
(12:44):
builds in the pips and it'slike we built to this really
beautiful life that we have andthat we're both so invested in.
But I think if it hadn't beenthat initial full energy and
those Three of Wands yearningsfull energy in those three of
wands, like yearnings.
So I think if I was reading fora client, I would call on that
(13:05):
story first to talk about howthe full kind of urges us to
seek new things, but how thethree of wands can show us what
the more that we're sort oflonging for or yearning for is,
and so using those together,guiding someone to figure out
what journey they're wanting togo on right now, whether it was
as literal as mine or like aspiritual journey or whatever.
Finbarre Snarey (13:27):
So if I was to lean over and just place my ear
to those cards and see whatthey're whispering, I think the
question would be something likehow did embracing your
queerness influence the earlystages of your spiritual and
tarot journey?
Cassandra Snow (13:39):
Your queerness influenced the early stages of
your spiritual and tarot journey.
Yeah, that is a really goodquestion and I think I have to
go back even further till when Iwas a very devout Christian and
I was constantly looking forsalvation of like being who I am
is okay, who I am is okay, and,of course, in those
denominations, I was not gettingthat and I was not getting that
(13:59):
and I started questioning.
When I was at my first college,Again, I was having a lot of
intellectual things like wait,this part doesn't make sense
with this part, and just, and Ididn't understand why so many of
the supposedly devout people Iknew were kind of horrible
people and because that wasn'tactually my case growing up, I
was lucky, surrounded by very,very good people.
(14:20):
But because that wasn'tactually my case growing up, I
was lucky, surrounded by very,very good people.
But so there was that piece andso I started what a lot of
times is called deconstructing.
But then at the same time, whenI was working with Tarot, there
was so much about truth andthere was so much about
self-love and forgiveness andcompassion and it called me out
on a lot of stuff like my wholelife, even though I had been in
(14:41):
this very devout thing.
I'd always been really accepting.
I was like, for a long time Iwas the ally who just thought
other queer people were reallyneat and I needed to be like the
best ally, um, and I think thatsometimes that ally is legit
and and I know a few who arevery great but so often it's
because, like you know deep downthat that's you also.
(15:03):
And so, yeah, it was actuallythrough tarot that I started
really accepting my queernessand then it was also through
tarot and I would say these areparallel stories that just
eventually ran together Istarted getting really into
really a childhood fascinationwith, like, myth and folklore
and stuff like that.
And I started, you know,through tarot community in
(15:26):
Asheville, north Carolina, whichwas the closest big city I had
access to.
I was learning a lot aboutWicca, about paganism, about
chaos, witchery, like all ofthese cool things, and so my
journey with queerness, tarotand paganism honestly all ran in
like three parallel lines andthen just like, at a point just
collided, almost like the BigBang Theory or something like,
(15:52):
and it, I think, collided in away that really got to the crux
of like oh, this is always who Iwas and was supposed to be, got
to the crux of like, oh, thisis always who I was and was
supposed to be.
And I think the biggesttransition for me in my
spiritual journey was I grew upreally wanting forgiveness and
salvation, or like evidence thatwho I was was okay.
And what I found as I startedexploring tarot and paganism and
(16:16):
witchery was that it was notonly okay, but there were places
in the world that it was reallycelebrated and it was a really
joyful thing to be, and that itdidn't have to be this thing I
was always ashamed of.
It could be this thing that wasreally cool and really fun, and
you know some of the greatestpeople in the world in this
community, and so I think Idon't have a good ending to that
(16:39):
ramble, but that's, I think,where I ended up.
Finbarre Snarey (16:43):
Fantastic.
Just so I've got an idea ofwhat the kind of prevailing
culture was like and what youwould have been up against.
So when you're in that churchcommunity, approximately when
are we talking?
Are we talking 90s?
Cassandra Snow (17:04):
Approximately when are we talking?
Are we talking 90s, before I'm40?
So I was born in 85, so itwould have been by the time I
think I like knew anything thatwas going on.
It would have been 90s, early2000s and, I think, early in a
lot of deconstructingconversations.
A lot of people who are likeex-evangelicals from the early
2000s are like, yes,deconstructing is always hard
and coming from an evangelicalfaith or almost cult like system
(17:29):
is really difficult.
There was just something aboutthat late 90s to early 2000s
where they were just engulfingso many people and it's like a
very specific deconstruction andnot that it was like special or
harder or different.
But I think being a child of the90s, early 2000s and this is
also offset to like this was mychurch raising but I actually
(17:50):
had really liberal, progressiveparents and when I came out to
my dad I specifically rememberhe jokes about it now but his
(18:11):
initial reaction was like that'sfine, when are you going to
finish college?
In a lot of cases, and then twopeople in your life who are so
supportive about LGBTQ plusthings.
But those relationships havebeen very, very strained over
other things throughout theyears.
My dad and I are in a very goodplace now, but things were so
(18:34):
difficult, with my momespecially a lot, and it's like
so confusing because, like theprogressive values are coming
from this place that is hurtingyou and the really awful values
are coming from the place thatis like your escape and your
safe place, and I think there'sa way that those types of
churches kind of prey on youthand young adults.
Coming from that situation,that is particularly insidious.
(18:57):
And so that, yeah, it was a lotof things and it was a lot of
different things.
And then I was very involved inmy church, which means I ended
up being further parentified bythose adults because I was being
told all of the church gossip,I was being asked to pick sides
in fights, and I was 17, andthese were people in retirement
(19:22):
in a lot of cases, and so therewas all of that going on.
And then when I went to college, the situation was actually
worse.
We tried to start what would nowbe called and now is they have
one now, thankfully, and it'scalled a queer student Union,
but at the time it was GSA.
We tried to start one and theschool shut it down so hard, and
(19:45):
I mean even saying and this wasa Baptist school and even
saying things like if youweren't an official club on
campus you couldn't meet.
And so we went about things totry to become an official club
on campus, and they got so upsetthat they said no more new
clubs on campus at all.
We are at max for clubs oncampus.
No one can start a new club now.
(20:07):
And it was specifically becausewe were trying to make the GSA
official and I was falling inlove with a woman for the first
time to the background of that,and so it was like this thing
that made me feel better thananything ever had.
And then all of this awfulstuff going on in the background
of that, and so it was likethis thing that made me feel
better than anything ever had.
And then all of this awfulstuff going on in the background
, and then a lot of it too wasmy own trauma, unrelated things
(20:28):
that happened other than justbeing the culture and misogyny
of the era and space.
It was just all.
It was a lot and it was veryconfusing, and there was a lot
going on inside as well asexternally, but I think
culturally in that area therewas just a very big push.
Church is so ingrained in theculture At school you don't ask
(20:49):
what is your faith or do you goto church?
You ask where do you go tochurch?
It is just assumed that you goto a Christian church and they
just want to know which one.
And if you go to the wrong one,you're still at risk for being
told you're going to hell.
And so that is a lot of what Iwas coming of age, coming to
terms with who I was.
That was a lot of what wasgoing on.
Finbarre Snarey (21:10):
Yeah, culturally that is very
different.
I mean, I was raised in aheathen household.
My parents are old hippies.
I've never had people come upto make that assumption that I
go to church.
I can't imagine what that wouldbe like.
I would have a few words to sayDon't get me wrong, I do like a
good service and I likespending time with family
members in a church environment,providing it's brief.
But to have that thrust uponyou, I can't imagine what that'd
(21:32):
be like.
Cassandra Snow (21:33):
It's very compulsory and it's very, you
know, I was happy in my church,so I didn't have a lot of
hangups about that piece at thetime.
But it was, I will say, movingto the Midwest, which still and
I was in a very rural area inIowa and there was a very strong
Christian culture still, but itwas not assumed that you go to
(21:55):
church, even though it was aChristian school even that I was
at.
And not only that, but I thinkone thing that was so jarring to
me was I'd been there a fewmonths and all of a sudden I
realized and this is going tosound nuts to people who haven't
lived in a Bible Belt-ish areabut I realized it had been
months since someone like walkedup to me in a restaurant to
preach at me or ask if I hadfound Jesus.
(22:17):
And I was so used to ithappening on like a monthly or
even like weekly or biweeklybasis that it wasn't until I and
it was like, why do I feel muchsafer going out in public here?
And then I was like oh, it'sbecause not once in Iowa has
someone just walked, unless theywere like a school peer who I
(22:37):
knew was like not my kind ofperson and was super
conservative and was trying tosave me or whatever.
But like never in Iowa was Iout in public when someone
walked up to me and did that andI had just been so used to it
before and at the same time ithad driven me to almost an
agoraphobia about going out andI just didn't even realize it.
Finbarre Snarey (22:57):
Yeah, I've never had an experience like
that.
I mean, when I've seen streetpreachers here in the UK who
will point people out and saythat they're condemned to a
fiery pit, I've always wondered.
I'm sure it says somewhere inthe Bible, I don't know it
intimately, but I'm sure it saysblessed are the meek, and these
people don't tend to listen tothat part.
Cassandra Snow (23:21):
They don't.
And there is very specific Iwas very about, and I have read
the bible multiple times all theway through and there are
specific verses that just get soignored, and one of them
literally says not to preach onstreet corners I'll need to look
that one up.
In fact, I need to look that up,write it down on a little cue
card and then produce it andlike it has some caveats around
it and I'm sure that they'relike no, you're only not
supposed to preach on streetcorners if you're not sure of
(23:42):
your own goodness or whatever,but like also according to the
theory of original sin, likenone of us can be sure anyways,
so you should not be preachingfrom a street corner right.
Finbarre Snarey (23:57):
We'd normally do three cards.
That's the, that's the secondand a bit card, so we're down to
the last one.
Are you ready?
Oof five of cups yeah all right.
How are we feeling about thisone?
Cassandra Snow (24:14):
I'm fine I heard the noise, but when you saw it,
okay first impressions firstimpressions are you know the
five of cups for me and, to beclear, I am a double Pisces with
a cancer rising.
Finbarre Snarey (24:30):
Pisces here as well.
Cassandra Snow (24:31):
Yeah, I am also a Mars and Venus and Aries,
which means I fall in and out oflove very quickly.
Sometimes I was rejoicing thatmy girlfriend and I have made it
(24:53):
a year and like I love her andI do not feel myself feeling
that Aries, mars, whatever it'sgoing to take All of that to say
, just like how some songs, whenyou are that emotional of a
person, can bring up not justone but every pain or heartache
you've ever gone through.
That's sort of what I see withthe Five of Cups sometimes.
But platonic relationships,friendships, are so, so
important to to me.
Given the way I grew, grew upand given that I grew up in
(25:13):
church, I would say one goodthing it instilled in me was
that drive towards community andtowards found family as well.
And so when I see the five ofcups, I see for me the very
uncomfortable truth, becauseit's not all bad.
In the five of cups I also, inaddition to heartache, I think
(25:36):
of words like release and justletting go.
So I also think of like a verygood cry, but then you're fine
afterwards, and things like tome that's also five of cups.
And sometimes I will tell aclient like, oh, this might not
be working out.
Or I might tell them, dependingon other cards and intuition,
like you just need a good cry,babe, and they are going to be
totally fine.
So those are all things thatcome up with the Five of Cups.
(25:57):
But in going through that Ithink a lot about how some of
the hardest breakups I've beenthrough have been platonic or
friend breakups.
I still, in true lesbianfashion, I still am good friends
with most of my exes.
It is when the friendshipdoesn't work out, or any
friendship doesn't work out,that I kind of fall to pieces.
But in the Five of Cups there'sspecifically a piece about how
(26:22):
in most guidebooks about like,but look at the cups that are
still standing, look at whathasn't been lost.
And I think that's even moretrue with friendship.
Like, yes, you might have feelyou might feel abandoned by one
or two people, but if you wereto turn around and see the cup
still standing, there's, likethe rest of this community and
close friendship that you'vebuilt that is still completely
(26:43):
there for you.
So for me it is about being inthe moment and gratitude, while
also still giving into youremotions.
Finbarre Snarey (26:53):
Right.
So, based on what you've toldme, the question I'm going to
ask you is and please let meknow if this is touching on
anything that is uncomfortable,and then we can pull another
card, perhaps, but the Five ofCups.
How does your relationship withtarot and your spirituality
help you process loss or grief?
Cassandra Snow (27:13):
I actually love this question.
Some of the goddesses and Iwould say gods too that I work
with are darker side.
I'm no stranger.
I don't really believe inbinaries or titles or anything,
so I would definitely not sayI'm a left-hand path witch, but
I'm also no stranger to thoseworkings.
(27:34):
For me, what comes upspiritually with this card is a
lot of like all of the times.
Those so-called like darkerdeities like really held my hand
through what I was goingthrough and really made space
and made me make a safe space tohave those feelings and
emotions.
And I almost feel, too like Iwork with the Gorgons quite a
(27:54):
bit and I almost feel like, ohwell, I could interpret this as
like we're at the river Styx,you know, and like.
So I think there's a lot thereand it's a lot of.
I don't feel like I haveanything like one cogent, giant
thing to say, but I think thoseare the associations that come
up with me for that and I thinkthe way that when you are in
right relationship with faithand spirituality of any kind,
(28:18):
what it should do is make you abetter person.
But that also means it shouldmake you a person who is
emotionally mature and thatmeans leaning into the bad
emotions sometimes too, andletting them run their course,
and so I think it's reminding methat, like, if I don't stop to
cry now, if I deny this messagethat that's what I need to do
(28:41):
right now, it's going to come upat the worst possible moment or
worse, it's going to do what itdid to me in youth and end up
cutting me off from my own innervoice and cutting me off from
myself.
And so, to be the best versionof myself to bring to community,
to the world, to my friends, tomy clients, I actually do have
to take time for my own emotions, and so I think in that way, to
(29:04):
me it almost becomes like amore positively aspected card if
you take that advice and if youfeel good in your spirituality
it sounds like you're meetingthose situations on your own
terms yeah, yes, and that is sokey.
I'm also a little rebellious bynature and so and it's one or
the other, I run black or white,like I'm either all in 100 or I
(29:27):
like.
Nothing this person has saidhas ever made sense and I've
gotten better at bridging thatgap, but I still lean quite
rebellious.
So I think the on my own termsis so, so important.
Finbarre Snarey (29:41):
Excellent.
Well, thank you so much forthat incredibly thorough answer,
and you did mention the Gorgons.
Am I right in thinking this ismedusa and her other sisters?
Is that?
Cassandra Snow (29:50):
Correct.
Yes, and they have one brother.
He does not have snake hair andarguably no one but Medusa does.
Anyway, it depends on whatmythos you're reading.
But, um, yeah, I work with alot of those uh, ancient greek
underworld deities, includingGorgons.
Hecate is one of my primary, Ithink, in spite of being very
(30:13):
rebellious by nature and Idefinitely went through like an
American hipster phase where Ididn't want to work with anyone
that was already too popular orwhatever.
Hecate was also one of my firstpathwalking experiences in a
pagan setting.
That has just really stuck withme and she's been one of my
primary deities since then, andso in my work with Hecate, I
(30:34):
also end up working quite a bitwith the Gorgons, as well as
other creatures, deities,spirits that would be hanging
out down there.
Finbarre Snarey (30:43):
And I imagine that the modern age is a very
good time to be releasing theFuries.
Cassandra Snow (30:48):
I actually had not thought about that until you
said it, and now I'm like ohwow.
Finbarre Snarey (30:51):
No, what have I done?
Get ready?
No, I'm just kidding.
I mean, maybe when you've putthe baby down and you know
you've got 10 spare minutes,which probably won't happen for
a little while, unfortunately.
Cassandra Snow (31:03):
Well, I will say my queer platonic partner is
still on parental leave, so likeI have a week where I'll still
have some free time, my parentalleave is over.
I work for myself and I make alittle bit more, but also I'm
very.
I just love my clients.
I have writing deadlines.
Like it just was not avoidableso but while they're off work, I
(31:26):
still feel like I have plentyof time for myself, as well as
baby and work.
Finbarre Snarey (31:31):
Excellent.
Well, Cassandra Snow, this hasbeen an absolute pleasure
talking to you.
Now I can smell the scent of mydinner being prepared from
downstairs.
It's got my stomach rumbling soI'll need to dash, but thank
you so much for spending yourtime with us today.
Cassandra Snow (31:45):
Thank you for having me.
This was great.
Finbarre Snarey (31:48):
That's a wrap on our conversation with
Cassandra Snow.
We hope you enjoyed exploringthis conversation on tarot and
spirituality, and don't forgetto take a look at Tarot in Other
Words at all good bookshops.
Please follow us where you getyour podcasts and take a glance
at our show notes to see linksto Cassandra's other fabulous
work.
Thanks for joining us and untilnext time, keep exploring the
(32:10):
stories that inspire you.
Tarot Interviews.
Welcome back to TarotInterviews.
Today, we're thrilled tointroduce Cassandra Snow, a
celebrated tarot reader, authorand educator, whose work shines
a light on the intersections ofspirituality, identity and
(00:43):
healing the intersections ofspirituality, identity and
healing.
Cassandra is the editor of thebook Tarot in Other Words, an
author of Queering the Tarot,where they skillfully blend
tarot and witchcraft with afocus on LGBTQ plus inclusivity,
mental health and personalempowerment.
They also teach tarot andfacilitate workshops helping
people to connect with theirintuition and explore their
personal journeys.
(01:03):
So join us as we explore thestories, insights and
inspirations behind Cassandra'spowerful work.
Cassandra how are you doing?
Cassandra Snow (01:12):
I am doing quite well.
Thank you so much.
How are you doing?
Finbarre Snarey (01:15):
I have a house of plague.
My wife has been stricken.
I unfortunately have a bit oflurgy, but hopefully you won't
be able to hear it too badly.
My wife is going to fly all theway to Barcelona see a friend.
They've not seen each other forsuch a long time.
They're going to celebrate.
I think it's the 15th year thatthey first met and sadly it's
all been cut short.
So, yes, I've been keeping thehouse ship shape and Bristol
(01:38):
fashion and playing with thekids.
We're playing split fiction atthe moment, but, yeah, it's
rather dull.
So you have brightened up myday, right?
Well, I have in my hand a tarotdeck which will need no
introduction.
What I'm going to do is I'mgoing to shuffle this while you
can see, and then I want you tokind of reach out from sorry,
whereabouts are you?
Cassandra Snow (01:57):
I am from Minneapolis, Minnesota.
Finbarre Snarey (02:00):
Minneapolis, so all the way from Minneapolis to
the UK.
I want you to reach out andthen, when you feel that the
right card is there, we'll splitthe deck and then we'll keep
going until we've got the cardthat you want.
Cassandra Snow (02:10):
Okay.
Finbarre Snarey (02:14):
Interesting.
Cassandra Snow (02:15):
Okay.
Finbarre Snarey (02:16):
So we're starting off with a Major Arcana
with the Hermit.
Yeah, what are your experienceswith this card, the Hermit?
What are your experiences withthis card?
Cassandra Snow (02:25):
I love the Hermit, so my queer platonic
partner is a Virgo and a lot ofastrological association with
that and the Hermit is always iswhat comes through for me.
I'm not always so strict aboutastrological correspondences
with the tarot and a lot oftimes when clients are like how
(02:51):
did you get that?
The answer is like intuition orvibes.
But because I'm so close withthis person, a lot of Virgo
stuff really comes through withthe hermit, specifically the
focus on.
I think when we think of thehermit we sometimes call to mind
almost like a messy guy livingin the middle of the woods.
But my experience with theastro correspondence is instead
like a focus on home and theyknow where everything is and
like they create, almost likewhen we were chatting before we
(03:14):
were recording about the empresscreating the lush garden and
everything around them.
The Hermit is similar to that,but with their home, and it
really is about not wanting toleave this gorgeous space
they've created, but being soopen to people coming to them
for wisdom or a cup of tea orwhatever it ends up being.
(03:34):
And so those are my initialthings when it comes up, I think
, if people are asking foradvice, alternatively I go very
modern, like time to unplug,time to get off the internet a
little bit, time to really goback into what's true for you,
but for me, with the Hermit, Iread about how we think that
they just mean the Hermit, butin a lot of decks and when you
(03:57):
look at the imagery, it doeslook like the Hermit is
returning to society aftertaking time to like go back to
his inner voice and stay there,and so I've been thinking a lot,
especially in the um,everything that we're in right
now in the world what would yousay that I don't know.
Finbarre Snarey (04:16):
Recent events have been unusual in any way you
know, I wish they were moreunusual.
Cassandra Snow (04:21):
At this point I'm feeling jaded and I think
one great thing about theinternet but it's why they're
trying to shut it down is you'relearning how awful everything
has always been, and we maybejust have more knowledge now.
But one thing I think aboutwith the hermit is okay, I'm
actually very good at beingboundary, taking time for myself
in spite of everything I havegoing on, and so this is when I
(04:44):
am like okay, it's time to leavemy house and bring something
I've learned out into the world,and so that's a lot of what has
been coming up for me and myclients for the Hermit lately.
Finbarre Snarey (04:55):
My first impressions upon seeing that
hermit card were casting my mindback to 2008.
And I was on the Isle of Skyeenjoying my honeymoon because,
in order to save up for a house,we decided to dispense with
spending any money on ourwedding at all.
All the honeymoon, we camped ona remote Scottish island wild
(05:17):
camp for two weeks.
I loved it, and one of the guysthat I met just randomly in the
supermarket was, you know,getting some groceries.
There was a chap called TomLeopard who unfortunately has
now passed away.
He was a gentleman who waswho'd modified his body so he
looked like a leopard.
He had leopard spots all overhim, he had he used to wear
(05:37):
contact lenses, he had littleclaws and I loved it.
I was just buying bread and Ilooked up and there's oh there's
Tom Leopard, the ScottishHermit, and it was a wonderful
experience.
I've also had the pleasure ofreading cards for people in a
city called Manchester in the UKand when I left one particular
(05:57):
bar, I dropped the Hermit card,unfortunately, and it fell into
a vent.
And I know this because when Icame back three years later I
was at the same table and wentoh, this is my card, and it had
just been hanging out by itselfall that time waiting for me to
come back that is wild.
I love that so, yes, I I do haveum very fond memories of the
(06:20):
hermit.
Now my question, based off this, is what insights have you
gained from self-reflectionabout being a spiritual guide?
Cassandra Snow (06:28):
I.
So I had a pretty roughupbringing and I think that when
I think of that sort of line ofquestioning, I think a lot
about how it's actually taken mea long time to come to terms
with people seeing me that way.
Like I was far more interestedin being like almost the
opposite of a lot ofprofessional tarot readers,
(06:48):
right, like I was very excitedwhen people came in just for fun
and then to wow them with someaccurate insight, but then they
would keep coming back andasking deeper and deeper
questions and I think, justbecause of my own self-esteem,
it took me a while to be like no, it's okay that you're a
spiritual guide, and so I thinka lot about the growth and the
(07:09):
inner work that it takes for alot of people to be okay with
that.
I think some people go intothis work wanting that and some
people go into it.
You know, in a lot of ways itwas just a survival mechanism
for me.
And then it was survival workwhen I started getting too sick
to stay in arts, admin and stuffand then so for me to come to
(07:30):
terms with being this like guideor leader for other people,
yeah, I think about the journeythat it took to just be okay
with myself and be comfortablewith it, and then, at the same
time, I was so free spirited atthat time that I didn't really
want that responsibility of likethe words I said really had
impact.
And so I think, almost like thesilly Spider-Man quote of like
(07:52):
with great power comes greatresponsibility, and so just
being very careful that I'mtrusting my own intuition as
well as my relationship with thecards and the client, whereas I
was maybe a little moreuncorked when I started, I
actually take time to think itthrough now.
So, yeah, to answer thequestion, I think so much of
what I think about is just thejourney it took to get there and
(08:14):
to be comfortable, feeling like, okay, I know what I do, I know
what I'm doing and it's cool ifpeople see me that way.
Finbarre Snarey (08:22):
Okay, what time do you take, if you do, to go
through that self-reflection, tosit and think back over
previous experiences and relearnsome of the things that you did
in the moment and how they mayhave affected other people?
Cassandra Snow (08:35):
I actually have a lot of mechanisms for this.
For some reason, mechanism'sthe word that I keep thinking of
today.
But I am a journaler.
I will say I have aseven-week-old in my journaling
practice since she's come aroundhas been.
It leaves much to be desired,but previously I was a really
good journaler, but I still.
(08:55):
One thing I've still done iskeeping my morning habits of
doing a little bit of spell work, just sitting and reflecting,
pulling a card for myself.
Sometimes for fun I'll pull onefor baby too, just to see what
kind of day we're going to have.
Yeah, and so I think I havethat.
I also am in therapy.
I also don't think thatprocessing always has to be
(09:16):
internal.
A lot of times people reallywant to put us into boxes like
introvert, extrovert, andintrovert means this and
whatever.
I am deeply introvertedvertedbut I'm actually an external
process, which is why therapyand journaling are so good for
me.
But it also is like I reflectby me and my girlfriend or me
and my queer platonic partnerhaving really deep, meaningful
(09:37):
conversations.
I reflect by being in communitywith other tarot card readers
and other writers who arewriting on similar topics and
having those conversations, andso it kind of runs the gamut,
and I think it's a more is bestsituation.
I also don't think one thingalways works.
Now, admittedly, I am sayingthis as someone with significant
(10:00):
you know diagnosed ADHD, but Ican't just process the same way
all the time.
Not only do I get kind of boredand want to jump out of my skin
, but I also, just like you,start meeting resistance.
I think if you're only goingabout things one way, you kind
of need to break cycles to getfresh perspective.
(10:20):
So I actually like having anumber of tools for that
fantastic right.
Finbarre Snarey (10:27):
We've learned an awful lot from the hermit,
and that's only the first cut.
We start with the major arcana,where we're going to go.
So back to the deck and, asbefore, tell me when to stop.
It is two cards.
Do you want the top one or thebottom one?
Cassandra Snow (10:46):
Let's do both, but let's start with the top one
.
Finbarre Snarey (10:49):
We're doing both.
Yeah, my goodness Right.
So they're coming.
Who knows what we're invitingin here.
Okay, right.
So which one did you want first?
Cassandra Snow (10:59):
The top.
Okay, can you see both.
Want first the top.
Okay, can you see both of those?
I can.
Finbarre Snarey (11:03):
The Fool and the Three of Wands.
That's the first time I've hada pair just spring unbidden from
the deck.
Cassandra Snow (11:08):
Yeah, fun.
Finbarre Snarey (11:09):
So again, we are looking at the Fool and the
Three of Wands.
Okay, as a professional tarotreader, how would you interpret
that one?
As a professional tarot reader,how would you interpret that
one?
Cassandra Snow (11:18):
So what comes up for me is absolutely my journey
to the Midwest of the US.
In the first place.
I was born in Baltimore,maryland.
I was primarily raised inSpartanburg, south Carolina, and
then I went to college in NorthCarolina and then I wanted
something so different and for alot of reasons there was the
(12:02):
pain that I sort of alluded toearlier, but there was also.
I just wanted somethingdifferent.
I wanted to see what else wasout there.
I started applying everywhereand I ended up at a wonderful,
adorable little small school inIowa that was still Christian,
but it was ECLA Lutheran, whichis a much more progressive
denomination.
And yeah, with the three ofwands I often think of travel
I often think of new adventuresand those aren't my only
(12:23):
associations with them, butespecially when they're coming
up together, to me this is like,oh, this is me packing all of
me and my queer platonic partnerstuff into what would fit in
their Honda and driving halfwayacross the country to finish
school and really reinventourselves in a lot of ways.
And then, with the Three ofWands, I always think about what
(12:44):
builds in the pips and it'slike we built to this really
beautiful life that we have andthat we're both so invested in.
But I think if it hadn't beenthat initial full energy and
those Three of Wands yearningsfull energy in those three of
wands, like yearnings.
So I think if I was reading fora client, I would call on that
(13:05):
story first to talk about howthe full kind of urges us to
seek new things, but how thethree of wands can show us what
the more that we're sort oflonging for or yearning for is,
and so using those together,guiding someone to figure out
what journey they're wanting togo on right now, whether it was
as literal as mine or like aspiritual journey or whatever.
Finbarre Snarey (13:27):
So if I was to lean over and just place my ear
to those cards and see whatthey're whispering, I think the
question would be something likehow did embracing your
queerness influence the earlystages of your spiritual and
tarot journey?
Cassandra Snow (13:39):
Your queerness influenced the early stages of
your spiritual and tarot journey.
Yeah, that is a really goodquestion and I think I have to
go back even further till when Iwas a very devout Christian and
I was constantly looking forsalvation of like being who I am
is okay, who I am is okay, and,of course, in those
denominations, I was not gettingthat and I was not getting that
(13:59):
and I started questioning.
When I was at my first college,Again, I was having a lot of
intellectual things like wait,this part doesn't make sense
with this part, and just, and Ididn't understand why so many of
the supposedly devout people Iknew were kind of horrible
people and because that wasn'tactually my case growing up, I
was lucky, surrounded by very,very good people.
(14:20):
But because that wasn'tactually my case growing up, I
was lucky, surrounded by very,very good people.
But so there was that piece andso I started what a lot of
times is called deconstructing.
But then at the same time, whenI was working with Tarot, there
was so much about truth andthere was so much about
self-love and forgiveness andcompassion and it called me out
on a lot of stuff like my wholelife, even though I had been in
(14:41):
this very devout thing.
I'd always been really accepting.
I was like, for a long time Iwas the ally who just thought
other queer people were reallyneat and I needed to be like the
best ally, um, and I think thatsometimes that ally is legit
and and I know a few who arevery great but so often it's
because, like you know deep downthat that's you also.
(15:03):
And so, yeah, it was actuallythrough tarot that I started
really accepting my queernessand then it was also through
tarot and I would say these areparallel stories that just
eventually ran together Istarted getting really into
really a childhood fascinationwith, like, myth and folklore
and stuff like that.
And I started, you know,through tarot community in
(15:26):
Asheville, north Carolina, whichwas the closest big city I had
access to.
I was learning a lot aboutWicca, about paganism, about
chaos, witchery, like all ofthese cool things, and so my
journey with queerness, tarotand paganism honestly all ran in
like three parallel lines andthen just like, at a point just
collided, almost like the BigBang Theory or something like,
(15:52):
and it, I think, collided in away that really got to the crux
of like oh, this is always who Iwas and was supposed to be, got
to the crux of like, oh, thisis always who I was and was
supposed to be.
And I think the biggesttransition for me in my
spiritual journey was I grew upreally wanting forgiveness and
salvation, or like evidence thatwho I was was okay.
And what I found as I startedexploring tarot and paganism and
(16:16):
witchery was that it was notonly okay, but there were places
in the world that it was reallycelebrated and it was a really
joyful thing to be, and that itdidn't have to be this thing I
was always ashamed of.
It could be this thing that wasreally cool and really fun, and
you know some of the greatestpeople in the world in this
community, and so I think Idon't have a good ending to that
(16:39):
ramble, but that's, I think,where I ended up.
Finbarre Snarey (16:43):
Fantastic.
Just so I've got an idea ofwhat the kind of prevailing
culture was like and what youwould have been up against.
So when you're in that churchcommunity, approximately when
are we talking?
Are we talking 90s?
Cassandra Snow (17:04):
Approximately when are we talking?
Are we talking 90s, before I'm40?
So I was born in 85, so itwould have been by the time I
think I like knew anything thatwas going on.
It would have been 90s, early2000s and, I think, early in a
lot of deconstructingconversations.
A lot of people who are likeex-evangelicals from the early
2000s are like, yes,deconstructing is always hard
and coming from an evangelicalfaith or almost cult like system
(17:29):
is really difficult.
There was just something aboutthat late 90s to early 2000s
where they were just engulfingso many people and it's like a
very specific deconstruction andnot that it was like special or
harder or different.
But I think being a child of the90s, early 2000s and this is
also offset to like this was mychurch raising but I actually
(17:50):
had really liberal, progressiveparents and when I came out to
my dad I specifically rememberhe jokes about it now but his
(18:11):
initial reaction was like that'sfine, when are you going to
finish college?
In a lot of cases, and then twopeople in your life who are so
supportive about LGBTQ plusthings.
But those relationships havebeen very, very strained over
other things throughout theyears.
My dad and I are in a very goodplace now, but things were so
(18:34):
difficult, with my momespecially a lot, and it's like
so confusing because, like theprogressive values are coming
from this place that is hurtingyou and the really awful values
are coming from the place thatis like your escape and your
safe place, and I think there'sa way that those types of
churches kind of prey on youthand young adults.
Coming from that situation,that is particularly insidious.
(18:57):
And so that, yeah, it was a lotof things and it was a lot of
different things.
And then I was very involved inmy church, which means I ended
up being further parentified bythose adults because I was being
told all of the church gossip,I was being asked to pick sides
in fights, and I was 17, andthese were people in retirement
(19:22):
in a lot of cases, and so therewas all of that going on.
And then when I went to college, the situation was actually
worse.
We tried to start what would nowbe called and now is they have
one now, thankfully, and it'scalled a queer student Union,
but at the time it was GSA.
We tried to start one and theschool shut it down so hard, and
(19:45):
I mean even saying and this wasa Baptist school and even
saying things like if youweren't an official club on
campus you couldn't meet.
And so we went about things totry to become an official club
on campus, and they got so upsetthat they said no more new
clubs on campus at all.
We are at max for clubs oncampus.
No one can start a new club now.
(20:07):
And it was specifically becausewe were trying to make the GSA
official and I was falling inlove with a woman for the first
time to the background of that,and so it was like this thing
that made me feel better thananything ever had.
And then all of this awfulstuff going on in the background
of that, and so it was likethis thing that made me feel
better than anything ever had.
And then all of this awfulstuff going on in the background
, and then a lot of it too wasmy own trauma, unrelated things
(20:28):
that happened other than justbeing the culture and misogyny
of the era and space.
It was just all.
It was a lot and it was veryconfusing, and there was a lot
going on inside as well asexternally, but I think
culturally in that area therewas just a very big push.
Church is so ingrained in theculture At school you don't ask
(20:49):
what is your faith or do you goto church?
You ask where do you go tochurch?
It is just assumed that you goto a Christian church and they
just want to know which one.
And if you go to the wrong one,you're still at risk for being
told you're going to hell.
And so that is a lot of what Iwas coming of age, coming to
terms with who I was.
That was a lot of what wasgoing on.
Finbarre Snarey (21:10):
Yeah, culturally that is very
different.
I mean, I was raised in aheathen household.
My parents are old hippies.
I've never had people come upto make that assumption that I
go to church.
I can't imagine what that wouldbe like.
I would have a few words to sayDon't get me wrong, I do like a
good service and I likespending time with family
members in a church environment,providing it's brief.
But to have that thrust uponyou, I can't imagine what that'd
(21:32):
be like.
Cassandra Snow (21:33):
It's very compulsory and it's very, you
know, I was happy in my church,so I didn't have a lot of
hangups about that piece at thetime.
But it was, I will say, movingto the Midwest, which still and
I was in a very rural area inIowa and there was a very strong
Christian culture still, but itwas not assumed that you go to
(21:55):
church, even though it was aChristian school even that I was
at.
And not only that, but I thinkone thing that was so jarring to
me was I'd been there a fewmonths and all of a sudden I
realized and this is going tosound nuts to people who haven't
lived in a Bible Belt-ish areabut I realized it had been
months since someone like walkedup to me in a restaurant to
preach at me or ask if I hadfound Jesus.
(22:17):
And I was so used to ithappening on like a monthly or
even like weekly or biweeklybasis that it wasn't until I and
it was like, why do I feel muchsafer going out in public here?
And then I was like oh, it'sbecause not once in Iowa has
someone just walked, unless theywere like a school peer who I
(22:37):
knew was like not my kind ofperson and was super
conservative and was trying tosave me or whatever.
But like never in Iowa was Iout in public when someone
walked up to me and did that andI had just been so used to it
before and at the same time ithad driven me to almost an
agoraphobia about going out andI just didn't even realize it.
Finbarre Snarey (22:57):
Yeah, I've never had an experience like
that.
I mean, when I've seen streetpreachers here in the UK who
will point people out and saythat they're condemned to a
fiery pit, I've always wondered.
I'm sure it says somewhere inthe Bible, I don't know it
intimately, but I'm sure it saysblessed are the meek, and these
people don't tend to listen tothat part.
Cassandra Snow (23:21):
They don't.
And there is very specific Iwas very about, and I have read
the bible multiple times all theway through and there are
specific verses that just get soignored, and one of them
literally says not to preach onstreet corners I'll need to look
that one up.
In fact, I need to look that up,write it down on a little cue
card and then produce it andlike it has some caveats around
it and I'm sure that they'relike no, you're only not
supposed to preach on streetcorners if you're not sure of
(23:42):
your own goodness or whatever,but like also according to the
theory of original sin, likenone of us can be sure anyways,
so you should not be preachingfrom a street corner right.
Finbarre Snarey (23:57):
We'd normally do three cards.
That's the, that's the secondand a bit card, so we're down to
the last one.
Are you ready?
Oof five of cups yeah all right.
How are we feeling about thisone?
Cassandra Snow (24:14):
I'm fine I heard the noise, but when you saw it,
okay first impressions firstimpressions are you know the
five of cups for me and, to beclear, I am a double Pisces with
a cancer rising.
Finbarre Snarey (24:30):
Pisces here as well.
Cassandra Snow (24:31):
Yeah, I am also a Mars and Venus and Aries,
which means I fall in and out oflove very quickly.
Sometimes I was rejoicing thatmy girlfriend and I have made it
(24:53):
a year and like I love her andI do not feel myself feeling
that Aries, mars, whatever it'sgoing to take All of that to say
, just like how some songs, whenyou are that emotional of a
person, can bring up not justone but every pain or heartache
you've ever gone through.
That's sort of what I see withthe Five of Cups sometimes.
But platonic relationships,friendships, are so, so
important to to me.
Given the way I grew, grew upand given that I grew up in
(25:13):
church, I would say one goodthing it instilled in me was
that drive towards community andtowards found family as well.
And so when I see the five ofcups, I see for me the very
uncomfortable truth, becauseit's not all bad.
In the five of cups I also, inaddition to heartache, I think
(25:36):
of words like release and justletting go.
So I also think of like a verygood cry, but then you're fine
afterwards, and things like tome that's also five of cups.
And sometimes I will tell aclient like, oh, this might not
be working out.
Or I might tell them, dependingon other cards and intuition,
like you just need a good cry,babe, and they are going to be
totally fine.
So those are all things thatcome up with the Five of Cups.
(25:57):
But in going through that Ithink a lot about how some of
the hardest breakups I've beenthrough have been platonic or
friend breakups.
I still, in true lesbianfashion, I still am good friends
with most of my exes.
It is when the friendshipdoesn't work out, or any
friendship doesn't work out,that I kind of fall to pieces.
But in the Five of Cups there'sspecifically a piece about how
(26:22):
in most guidebooks about like,but look at the cups that are
still standing, look at whathasn't been lost.
And I think that's even moretrue with friendship.
Like, yes, you might have feelyou might feel abandoned by one
or two people, but if you wereto turn around and see the cup
still standing, there's, likethe rest of this community and
close friendship that you'vebuilt that is still completely
(26:43):
there for you.
So for me it is about being inthe moment and gratitude, while
also still giving into youremotions.
Finbarre Snarey (26:53):
Right.
So, based on what you've toldme, the question I'm going to
ask you is and please let meknow if this is touching on
anything that is uncomfortable,and then we can pull another
card, perhaps, but the Five ofCups.
How does your relationship withtarot and your spirituality
help you process loss or grief?
Cassandra Snow (27:13):
I actually love this question.
Some of the goddesses and Iwould say gods too that I work
with are darker side.
I'm no stranger.
I don't really believe inbinaries or titles or anything,
so I would definitely not sayI'm a left-hand path witch, but
I'm also no stranger to thoseworkings.
(27:34):
For me, what comes upspiritually with this card is a
lot of like all of the times.
Those so-called like darkerdeities like really held my hand
through what I was goingthrough and really made space
and made me make a safe space tohave those feelings and
emotions.
And I almost feel, too like Iwork with the Gorgons quite a
(27:54):
bit and I almost feel like, ohwell, I could interpret this as
like we're at the river Styx,you know, and like.
So I think there's a lot thereand it's a lot of.
I don't feel like I haveanything like one cogent, giant
thing to say, but I think thoseare the associations that come
up with me for that and I thinkthe way that when you are in
right relationship with faithand spirituality of any kind,
(28:18):
what it should do is make you abetter person.
But that also means it shouldmake you a person who is
emotionally mature and thatmeans leaning into the bad
emotions sometimes too, andletting them run their course,
and so I think it's reminding methat, like, if I don't stop to
cry now, if I deny this messagethat that's what I need to do
(28:41):
right now, it's going to come upat the worst possible moment or
worse, it's going to do what itdid to me in youth and end up
cutting me off from my own innervoice and cutting me off from
myself.
And so, to be the best versionof myself to bring to community,
to the world, to my friends, tomy clients, I actually do have
to take time for my own emotions, and so I think in that way, to
(29:04):
me it almost becomes like amore positively aspected card if
you take that advice and if youfeel good in your spirituality
it sounds like you're meetingthose situations on your own
terms yeah, yes, and that is sokey.
I'm also a little rebellious bynature and so and it's one or
the other, I run black or white,like I'm either all in 100 or I
(29:27):
like.
Nothing this person has saidhas ever made sense and I've
gotten better at bridging thatgap, but I still lean quite
rebellious.
So I think the on my own termsis so, so important.
Finbarre Snarey (29:41):
Excellent.
Well, thank you so much forthat incredibly thorough answer,
and you did mention the Gorgons.
Am I right in thinking this ismedusa and her other sisters?
Is that?
Cassandra Snow (29:50):
Correct.
Yes, and they have one brother.
He does not have snake hair andarguably no one but Medusa does.
Anyway, it depends on whatmythos you're reading.
But, um, yeah, I work with alot of those uh, ancient greek
underworld deities, includingGorgons.
Hecate is one of my primary, Ithink, in spite of being very
(30:13):
rebellious by nature and Idefinitely went through like an
American hipster phase where Ididn't want to work with anyone
that was already too popular orwhatever.
Hecate was also one of my firstpathwalking experiences in a
pagan setting.
That has just really stuck withme and she's been one of my
primary deities since then, andso in my work with Hecate, I
(30:34):
also end up working quite a bitwith the Gorgons, as well as
other creatures, deities,spirits that would be hanging
out down there.
Finbarre Snarey (30:43):
And I imagine that the modern age is a very
good time to be releasing theFuries.
Cassandra Snow (30:48):
I actually had not thought about that until you
said it, and now I'm like ohwow.
Finbarre Snarey (30:51):
No, what have I done?
Get ready?
No, I'm just kidding.
I mean, maybe when you've putthe baby down and you know
you've got 10 spare minutes,which probably won't happen for
a little while, unfortunately.
Cassandra Snow (31:03):
Well, I will say my queer platonic partner is
still on parental leave, so likeI have a week where I'll still
have some free time, my parentalleave is over.
I work for myself and I make alittle bit more, but also I'm
very.
I just love my clients.
I have writing deadlines.
Like it just was not avoidableso but while they're off work, I
(31:26):
still feel like I have plentyof time for myself, as well as
baby and work.
Finbarre Snarey (31:31):
Excellent.
Well, Cassandra Snow, this hasbeen an absolute pleasure
talking to you.
Now I can smell the scent of mydinner being prepared from
downstairs.
It's got my stomach rumbling soI'll need to dash, but thank
you so much for spending yourtime with us today.
Cassandra Snow (31:45):
Thank you for having me.
This was great.
Finbarre Snarey (31:48):
That's a wrap on our conversation with
Cassandra Snow.
We hope you enjoyed exploringthis conversation on tarot and
spirituality, and don't forgetto take a look at Tarot in Other
Words at all good bookshops.
Please follow us where you getyour podcasts and take a glance
at our show notes to see linksto Cassandra's other fabulous
work.
Thanks for joining us and untilnext time, keep exploring the
(32:10):
stories that inspire you.
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