April 28, 2025 • 25 mins
Lindz McLeod is a Scottish author known for her imaginative fiction that blends the surreal, the unsettling, and the profoundly human. Lindz writes across genres, from speculative fiction and horror to literary romance. She is the author of Turducken, an award-winning short story collection, and Sunbathers, a darkly erotic horror novella. Lindz McLeod’s The Unlikely Pursuit of Mary Bennet, a sapphic Regency tale of forbidden desire, is available right now!
Learn more and find her books at: https://lindzmcleod.co.uk
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Finbarre Snarey (00:20):
Tarot Interviews.
Welcome to Tarot Interviews,where we explore the lives and
creative journeys of fascinatingindividuals through the wisdom
of the cards.
Today we welcome Lindz McLeod,a Scottish writer and editor
(00:41):
whose work blends the surreal,the eerie and the deeply human.
Known for her award-winningshort story collection Turducken
and her erotic horror novellaSunbathers, lynn's crafts
stories that challengeboundaries and embrace the
unexpected.
With a romance novel, theUnlikely Pursuit of Mary Bennett
, set for release in 2025, shecontinues to expand her
(01:04):
repertoire.
Join us as we shuffle the deckand uncover the hidden threads
of fate woven into LynneMcLeod's remarkable journey.
Thank you so much for appearingon the show.
What kind of a day are youhaving today?
Lindz McLeod (01:16):
Quiet and also busy.
The several deadlines that Iwas putting off are rapidly
approaching.
This is hopefully a wonderfulbastion of safety away from my
pending deadlines.
Finbarre Snarey (01:27):
I must say that is a stunning room that you're
in there.
Is this your library?
Lindz McLeod (01:30):
It is.
It's the room that I work inmost of the time.
I was actually just posting theother day about my fiance
complaining that we had too manybooks, which is not a thing, as
we all know.
It's a strange thing that she'smade up.
I, I mean Americans, who canunderstand, but, um, what you
can't see is that the shelvesactually go most of the way
around.
There are quite a lot of booksin here, but I do contain it to
(01:52):
mostly just one room.
Finbarre Snarey (01:53):
So it's all neat, everything's on shelves,
but I I work in here surroundedby and inspired by other books
as well looking just behind youthere and if you were to just
read out a couple of booksyou've got there at random,
which ones kind of inspire youfrom your eyeline as you're
working there?
Lindz McLeod (02:09):
Oh well, I have some PhD books to the left of me
here, gosh.
I mean, they're all in order aswell, because I'm a terribly
organised person, because Ithink I have to be.
So we have.
Finbarre Snarey (02:22):
When you say order, are we talking order of
height, thickness, colorcategories so we have.
Lindz McLeod (02:27):
We have a non-fiction section over here,
which, of course, is broken downbecause I'm not a monster, um.
So we have science, we have art, we have biography and
autobiography, and then we havefiction.
The graphic novels and comicsare actually kept in, uh, in the
living room in a beautifuldisplay and again all in shelves
.
So, not a problem, no suchthing as too many books.
(02:49):
But I have to say there's quitea lot of short story
collections here, and, of course, that's something I do a lot.
I'm constantly reading shortstories and thinking about short
stories and talking about shortstories, and I do think it's a
really interesting skill and onethat can help when you're
writing longer work.
But at the same time, the shortstory is quite a different
beast entirely.
(03:10):
It's something I think about alot.
So I've got, for example, YoungSkins by Colin Barrett.
I have Carmen Maria Machado's,Her Body and Other Parties.
Oh, my fiance just got me ASunny Place for Shady People,
which is, um, Mariana, I think,Enriquez.
I haven't had a chance to lookat it yet, but it looks
incredible.
I'm really looking forward tothat.
(03:30):
I actually read a fair amount ofnonfiction as well.
There's some kind of blurringof the boundaries that I enjoy.
So one of the books that I havethat is a complete inspiration
to me I'd love to writesomething like this at some
point is Benjamin Labatut's whenwe Cease to Understand the
World, and this is a series ofessays where he is talking about
various different things.
(03:51):
A lot of it is Nazi related ina way, but then he will also
drop in things like the colorPrussian blue or what happens to
lemon trees when they die, andthere are points at which he
starts to blur the lines fromnonfiction to creative
nonfiction.
It is quite trippy in places,but I'm just astounded by this
(04:12):
book.
It was written I believe hewrote it in his original Spanish
and then he translated it, andI don't think the second one,
which I think he wrote inEnglish, quite matches the
beauty of the first.
I think the original languagebrings something to a poeticism
that doesn't quite work inEnglish, I think, or directly
English.
Finbarre Snarey (04:31):
One of my great regrets in life is learning
French at GCSE.
I wish I'd picked German, butthe reason why I picked French
oh really, I learn French too.
Well, at the time I wasthinking, you know, it'd be be
good for basically good formeeting girls and also for
reading baudelaire's poetry inthe original french.
This is how my teenage mindworked.
I must say, being able to reada language as it was written is.
(04:53):
There's nothing quite like it,but having to learn an entire
language to appreciate it notsure, not sure, right?
I've got cards in my hand andit's time for your first one.
Okay, are you ready?
Okay, and describe what you see.
Lindz McLeod (05:10):
Oh, I see, Is it the three of swords?
I think.
Finbarre Snarey (05:15):
What impressions do you get from that
card?
Lindz McLeod (05:21):
Well, it looks like three swords impaling a
heart and behind them there aresome clouds which look to be
raining.
Finbarre Snarey (05:25):
it looks like very much a conflict card my
understanding of the three ofswords is it's a card of
heartbreak, sorrow, emotionalpain, also loss as well.
So it's a reminder that thingscan be difficult.
Pain is a necessary part ofgrowth and healing and we can
emerge stronger.
That's the traditional meaning.
Let me think of a question foryou.
Let's take almost literally howdo you navigate part of growth
(05:45):
and healing and we can emergestronger?
That's the traditional meaning.
Let me think of a question foryou.
Let's take it almost literallyhow do you navigate themes of
heartbreak, loss and resiliencein your stories?
Lindz McLeod (05:55):
That's a good question.
I think I navigate them likeeverything else.
They're an intrinsic part oflife.
They're an intrinsic part ofstorytelling, and one of the
things that I talk about when Italk about weird fiction which I
do quite a lot is peoplesometimes ask okay, but if it's
weird or if it's surreal, how doyou get the reader to still
connect to what you're saying?
(06:15):
And the answer usually is thereare universal things that we
all connect to.
We understand love and loss andsacrifice and courage and
cowardice.
There are kind of these globalemotions and elements.
So, no matter how weird thestory is, or even how banal and
how straightforward it is, I'malways thinking what does this
(06:37):
character love?
What have they lost?
What would they do to get whatthey want?
Finbarre Snarey (06:42):
Looking back on the stories that you've written
most recently, which characterfeels most um applicable to that
?
Lindz McLeod (06:51):
oh well, which journey I feels okay so, um,
there's, there's two thingsthere and they're both very,
very different.
Uh, one of them is a book thatI wrote in kind of late summer
last year called mary anningdinosaur hunter.
Um, and it is about mary anning, the real person, but she
discovers a cave to the past andwhich is full of dinosaurs.
(07:13):
It is basically a link to thecretaceous period, although
cough cough it's, it iscretaceous, but we're hand
waving some things.
And she decides that this isthe way that she will force the
geological society to payattention to her.
If she can find a way to bringa live specimen out, then they
cannot ignore her anymore andshe goes quite a long way in
pursuit of that goal and shedoes some some very stupid
(07:36):
things as a result of wantingthis goal so badly.
And the other one is a veryshort a flash piece that I wrote
all in one go, um, about amonth or so ago, and I've called
it howdy cat, because HelloKitty is probably a trademark to
hell, and it is about Howdy Catwho becomes a astronaut and
(07:57):
goes through the NASA spacetraining program.
And Howdy Cat's humancompanions do not like Howdy Cat
and also she cannot speakbecause she is very much like,
though legally distinct from,hello Kitty and no mouse.
So it's it's kind of a play onthe the.
I have no mouth and I mustscream.
But it's also what would happenif, if this kind of non-human
(08:19):
character comes along on thespaceship to to do this mission.
They're, as you can see, verydifferent goals, very different
characters, but they both havethings that they want.
They have things that are beingdenied them by other people,
and, and what are they preparedto do to get those?
Are they prepared to put upwith abuse and harassment?
Are they prepared to put upwith humiliation and
embarrassment and shame?
(08:40):
Are they prepared to injurethemselves or other people in
pursuit of that goal?
And injure can mean a lot ofthings.
It's a very big spectrum.
Finbarre Snarey (08:49):
Excellent, right.
Well, so we have a card of lossto begin with.
Let's hope we get something alittle better, but I don't want
to uh, to jinx the cards.
It has happened in previousinterviews.
Okay, so I'm shuffling again.
Let me know when to stop okay,so here we have the.
Lindz McLeod (09:09):
Is it the four of swords?
Finbarre Snarey (09:11):
It is the four of swords exactly.
And what impressions do you get?
Lindz McLeod (09:14):
So we can see there are three swords hanging
on the wall and one sword iskind of laid horizontally.
Above the horizontal sword wecan see what looks to be a
knight lying in state, as it waslike dead Posed but dead.
Those are interesting choices.
Finbarre Snarey (09:32):
I like, I like them yeah, I find it fascinating
that the swords are coming outto play.
It was um in the last interviewI did.
Lindz McLeod (09:37):
It was pentacles throughout and, uh, hopefully
we'll get something a littledifferent on the next head
pretty apt for me um at themoment, like, yeah, we'll talk
about it, I'll answer yourquestion, yeah okay.
Finbarre Snarey (09:48):
So this one is resting, recovery, contemplation
.
It's a period of stillness,hardship, the invitation to take
a step back, regain your mentaland emotional strength, and
it's a reminder that trueclarity and renewal come through
peace and reflection.
So how do you balance rest andreflection with the demands of
being a writer?
Lindz McLeod (10:08):
Oh gosh.
I mean, my friends would say Idon't um, which is, and I
understand why.
So I last year I had, I hadquite a year.
I decided at some point in theyear that I was going to try and
write as many books as Ipossibly could in that year and
so I took um.
This was the result of havingsold a couple of books on
proposal and then having towrite them, and I decided that
(10:30):
wasn't enough pain andpunishment for myself.
I would go further.
So I took a deferral from myPhD for six months and I went
and wrote as many books as Icould.
I ended up fully writing fourand part writing another five.
It was kind of a nightmare.
And I also wrote multiple shortstories and something in the
end of about 430,000 wordsapproximately.
(10:53):
It was quite a lot.
I'm pretty sure that I narrowlyescaped interventions.
On at least three separateoccasions.
My friends kept saying come forcoffee, but there was a tone
and I kept slithering out ofthem like an octopus backwards
through a vent in the hope thatI would just make it through the
year.
(11:13):
My fiancé also tried to give meseveral interventions and I did
listen to them, but onlybecause we live in the same
house and I had to.
Basically, it was my way ofsaying I feel very frustrated
about how slow everything is.
Publishing is a glacialindustry and I'm quite a fast
writer.
I'm also very ambitious andthere's very little control that
you have over that.
(11:33):
At a certain point, when you'requerying, it's different,
because if you get rejectionsfrom agents, you can just query
more agents.
When you're actually agentedand you're going on submission
with editors, you have nocontrol over how long they take
to get back to you.
And I was also working with aproduction company who's
shopping my work in Hollywoodfor adaptation, also working
with a production company who'sshopping my work in Hollywood
(11:55):
for adaptation and, of course,almost within sort of six to
eight months of starting to dothat, there were the writer
strikes as well.
So last year was a period of meburning myself out completely in
every possible way and tryingto do everything.
And then I sort of took a stepback once I had reached my goal
and sort of said you know what,this year 2025, will be a little
(12:15):
bit different.
I am planning to do things adifferent way.
I've already been doing thingsin a different way.
I'm having something called aweekend which is, you know, only
on occasion is a treat, but itis nice.
And remembering that I can fillthe quiver with as many arrows
as I like, but I, you know, Iit's not like the world is going
to end tomorrow.
(12:35):
I can take time about doingthat and I've already.
I can rest reassured in theknowledge that I have worked
really hard and I've done all Ican.
Those things are kind of Icannot talk too much about them,
but in the last two weeks somesome exciting things have
happened in multiple areas, um,of various industries, and
hopefully I'll be able toannounce something soon, but
it's been really nice to see, umthings actually happening.
(12:59):
And of course, both the uh, thefilm and television industry
and the publishing industry.
They're both very slow andthere is this kind of delayed
gratification going on where youmight write something, uh, two
or three years ago and only nowsomeone's saying we love it and
you're like, oh, that thing,sure, I mean okay, great,
wonderful.
But it is kind of like making ameal and then you have to
(13:22):
freeze it and not eat it for ayear.
It can feel very no one'spatting you on the head when
you've done it.
So it is very much an industryfor people who like to hurt
themselves in various differentways.
You have to be kind of preparedto be stubborn and sort of let
yourself be powered by spite alot of the time, and that can
turn you into someone bitter.
So it's also important to stepback and sort of say like am I
(13:44):
proud of the work that I'mproducing?
Am I happy with what I'm doing?
And if I'm not, then you know,make some adjustments here and
there.
But I definitely feel like Ihave gone through some things.
I went through some things in2024 and I'm now at a place
where I feel better about mycareer.
I feel like I'm able to pickand choose more things, which is
a relief no-transcript.
Finbarre Snarey (14:05):
Excellent, I have to say.
Thank you so much for joiningus in your place of work on your
weekend.
Lindz McLeod (14:11):
I genuinely wasn't joking.
I don't often have a weekend,and a weekend for me means I get
like maybe three or four hourson both days to relax.
The rest of the time I'm aterrible workaholic.
This is the thing.
I'm trying to wean myself offit a little bit, but it is a
problem.
Finbarre Snarey (14:31):
Can I ask?
We're pulling out a lot of soldcards so far.
I did pick up in an interviewthat I read from a little while
ago that you likened yourstories, or the inspiration for
your stories, to splinters.
Can you talk to me about that?
Lindz McLeod (14:39):
yeah.
So I'd like to say, oh, a storyis a wonderful seed that blooms
, and then you get to prune itand and and water it and and
look at the flower and I'm like,no, I wake up with something
burning and itching inside me.
And look at the flower and I'mlike, no, I wake up with
something burning and itchinginside me and I have to go and
work it out with the tweezers ofmy own fingers on a keyboard.
I often can't get thecharacters to behave how I want.
They just tell me what thestory is.
(15:00):
They're in my head.
There's a scene in Americanfiction I don't know if you saw
that last year which was anadaptation of Percival Everett's
Erasure, and in it you can seethe main character, he's writing
the scene, and then hischaracters, who are like in the
room, turn to him and say wait,what am I saying?
That doesn't sound right andthat I laughed so much because
that's exactly what it feelslike.
(15:21):
A lot of the time they're likewhat?
I'm not going to do that rightnow.
I'm like, no, but you, the plotsays that you have to and they
just don't want to do it andit's frustrating, but no, it
does feel very much like I havean idea, and now I will.
I will cancel films, I willcancel outings, I will just
burrow myself into thiswonderful room that you see here
and until I've worked it out ofmy system because otherwise I
(15:43):
can hardly think about anythingelse it has to be kind of
tweezed out gently and even if Ijust get the bare bones of it
dying, that helps.
But I'll get really antsy if Ican't go and work and often like
the prose is putting itselftogether in my head as I'm
running to the library.
Finbarre Snarey (15:59):
Okay, right, Third card.
It is so two cards down.
They'll stay where they are.
I'll keep shuffling and let meknow when to stop.
Okay, so how does this make youfeel?
What do you see?
Lindz McLeod (16:13):
Okay, so the ten wands are gathered together in
kind of a bundle and there iswhat looks like almost sort of
like a page character holdingthem all together.
There's almost a Sisypheanelement to this.
It looks like, you know, know,there's kind of a um, it's an
uphill struggle to keep theseones together.
(16:34):
They, literally, they kind ofwant to fall apart, but this
character is holding themtogether.
This, this is becoming almosttoo revealing in a way, given
what I just said.
I feel I feel seen, I feelperceived yeah, so do I.
Finbarre Snarey (16:46):
This is depicting exactly how I was
trying to get all of mychristmas decorations yesterday
yes, I appreciate it sometimesince christmas, up the stairs
and into the loft.
So, yes, 10 of wandssymbolizing burden,
responsibility, hard work uhit's.
The weight of obligations canbe physical, mental, emotional,
overwhelming.
Uh, it shows that you've takenon too much, as you've rightly
seen, carrying too heavy a load.
(17:08):
Uh, the lesson is to delegateand release those unnecessary
burdens.
Lindz McLeod (17:14):
Well, I didn't expect an intervention from you
as well, but I know I keptescape it, so I see what has
happened.
Finbarre Snarey (17:21):
Hey, I blame the cards entirely.
Okay, so ten of wands.
Do you feel extra pressure as aqueer writer to represent your
community and how do you handlethat?
Lindz McLeod (17:30):
Yeah, absolutely Of course, and I've talked about
this a little bit in.
I had a story come out in Apexmagazine in January, a novelette
that focuses on queercharacters being erased from the
universe.
And nobody knows why it'shappening, it just is, and in it
Apex also interviewed me aswell, uh, with marissa van oden,
(17:51):
and we talked a little bitabout that exact question about
feeling, when you are part ofsome minority, that you always
have to be on as a spokesperson,you're not allowed to simply be
and I think I quoted whoever itwas that said about the sort of
trump camilla thing is he getsto be lawless.
Well, she has to be flawless,and I do feel like that's the
(18:11):
case.
I also think that there is acertain amount of obviously
there's huge pressure that I puton myself because of my own
ambition and I do do a lot ofdifferent things, but I also try
to be available and do as muchfor the community as possible.
And this is again extrapressure that I put on myself
and extra responsibility, and Ido feel the weight of it.
(18:32):
But to me it's a necessaryweight because when I was kind
of coming up, I benefited a lotfrom advice from certain other
writers when they had time togive that to me, and I always
thought that if I ever was in aposition to give back then I
would, and so I consistently tryto do that, even when I
absolutely don't have time forit.
I will sort of give up hours ofsleep just to help other people
(18:53):
, if I can.
I've been mentoring writers foryears.
I was supposed to be through aone-year program.
That program ended and sort ofthree years later we're still
mentoring them.
I'm doing everything I can.
I edit queries for freewhenever anybody wants one.
I will never charge for that,and if anyone wants advice, On
(19:13):
top of your existing workload.
Firstly, it turns out I'm reallygood at queries, but it's
obviously not a useful skill forme anymore.
I actually edited my fiance'squery and she had multiple
offers from agents, which isalso a great book.
So it's something like I teachworkshops on and I will edit for
free afterwards as well.
Um, but I I feel like it'sreally important to give back.
(19:34):
It's an industry that pits usagainst each other, that
suggests there's only so manyspots and so many people can
make it, and so we're all crabsin a bucket fighting each other.
But actually that is how.
That is how they would like usto be, because then we're not
supporting each other, thenwe're not lifting each other up,
but a rising tide lifts allboats.
I don't understand why we can't.
Um, so I'm I've sort of made itlike a mission, a steely-eyed,
(19:58):
optimistic mission, to try tohelp people as much as I can and
whenever I've helped people.
I think I must be the onlyeditor in the world who is like
no, stop paying me, I don't.
I don't want your money.
Like, of course I need money.
I'm a.
My bank account looks like aslender, Dickensian orphan, but,
like you know, can you justplease, can you just give it
back, pay it forward to otherpeople.
(20:20):
If you know, if I help you now,if someone else asks you for
help or advice, like, can youjust give it and and try to make
sure that everybody has theknowledge that they need to get
where they want to go.
And also, you know, in thisindustry, hard work and talent
will only take you so far.
It is also about gettingyourself into the right place at
the right time.
That requires a certain amountof luck and sacrifice, but it
(20:41):
also requires the knowledge tobe able to angle yourself into a
position where you can receivethe opportunity in the first
place.
If you don't know something'shappening, you can't.
You can't get to it.
So I'm always like, if I'veever helped anyone in any
respect, there's a non-zerochance that I will slide into
your dms and say, hey, have youseen this submission thing?
Or have you seen this likegrant, that would be great for
(21:02):
you.
Um, you know, just a heads up,because yeah, I just, if I can
leave this world a little bitbetter than how I entered it, in
some way, then you know that'sa life well lived.
I'd be okay with that.
Finbarre Snarey (21:14):
That's a beautifully positive card to end
on, and I do have a bonusquestion to ask.
This is from my wife, who'svery interested in your upcoming
romance novel, the UnlikelyPursuit of Mary Bennett.
What inspired it?
Lindz McLeod (21:29):
Well, two things.
One is that my agent suggestedthat I write romance, which I
just laughed.
I said I don't write romanceand she said you do, there's
romance in almost all of yourwork.
And I went away and thoughtabout it and realized that much
like other areas, she wastotally right and that's
annoying.
So I was like, okay, well, letme write a proposal for you then
(21:50):
let's see how that goes.
I don't know if you're correctand, um, we sold it pretty
immediately.
So I was.
I was surprised, but not at thesame time.
I probably should have clockedit beforehand.
I have always been a huge fanof Austin, um, and I was
actually just uh, posting onBlues ky.
Today there's a, an article inthe Guardian about retellings
and a lot of new book covers forkind of older things, but I
(22:13):
thought there had been enoughretellings.
I wanted to do a continuationand also my fiance is a great
fan of Austen, although, as inmany other respects, she's
incorrect that Austen's bestbook is not Persuasion, it is
Pride and Prejudice.
We will argue about that.
I would like to do a Persuasioncontinuation for her someday,
but mainly it was also writtenas a labor of love to her.
(22:34):
The characters fall in loveover the meanings of flowers,
and it's all very tender andromantic and at every point I
was thinking you know how can Ibest amuse her?
What would make her happy toread this?
And of course there's.
I got to do little letters atthe start of many of the
chapters from characters thatyou might know.
One of my favorites is from MrsBennett and she is exactly how
(22:57):
you would imagine.
She's like so sorry, yourhusband died.
Anyway, all about me, myproblems, my life is really hard
and just no one really gets me.
Anyway, thoughts and prayers,and it's just fantastic to be
able to, to be allowed to dosomething like that.
But I also thought mainly theidea came from.
I understand the point ofCharlotte Lucas in the original
(23:18):
text she is there as this kindof mirror, this contrast to
Lizzie, um, so we get to see howmost people end up and most
women end up.
But I always thought charlottewas just read kind of queer to
me and I thought like, oh,wouldn't that be kind of
interesting to explore whatwould happen there if we gave
her the opportunity to have asecond chance.
(23:40):
You know, in the, in the first,in the original text, she's
very much like.
This is my last chance.
You know I have to marry him.
I'm a burden to my parents andto everyone.
There's a lot of pressure onher.
And what if we take away someof that pressure but we apply it
in different ways, with sometime and experience and sort of
wisdom of being out in the world?
Is she going to make the samechoices and keep herself in this
(24:04):
little box, or is she going tomake choices that will maybe
break her out of that?
Will she do it for a period oftime and then return to this
safe, comfortable confines thatshe knows?
Is she willing to do a littlemore?
Because I've always seen her asa character who had to play it
safe.
She didn't have any otheropportunity, so I was really
curious to see what would happenif she had the option not to.
Finbarre Snarey (24:26):
If she had the option not to.
Yeah, I think, given that mybookshelves at the moment are
too deep and I also have booksarranged around the top in the
way that you do when you'reshort on space, I think this and
Sunbathers are going to be areason for me to get some more
shelves.
Thank you so much.
Thank you very much.
From weaving eerie, surrealtales to exploring love and
longing through the written word, Linza's journey is one of bold
(24:49):
imagination and fearlessstorytelling.
Whether through the darkcorridors of horror, the tender
embrace of romance or thedreamlike twists of speculative
fiction, Her work invites us tosee the world and ourselves
differently.
With the unlikely pursuit ofMary Bennett on the horizon and
a PhD exploring the power ofstorytelling, Lindz continues to
shape literature in unexpectedand profound ways.
(25:12):
I'll speak to you later in thenext episode of Tarot Interviews
.
Tarot Interviews.
Welcome to Tarot Interviews,where we explore the lives and
creative journeys of fascinatingindividuals through the wisdom
of the cards.
Today we welcome Lindz McLeod,a Scottish writer and editor
(00:41):
whose work blends the surreal,the eerie and the deeply human.
Known for her award-winningshort story collection Turducken
and her erotic horror novellaSunbathers, lynn's crafts
stories that challengeboundaries and embrace the
unexpected.
With a romance novel, theUnlikely Pursuit of Mary Bennett
, set for release in 2025, shecontinues to expand her
(01:04):
repertoire.
Join us as we shuffle the deckand uncover the hidden threads
of fate woven into LynneMcLeod's remarkable journey.
Thank you so much for appearingon the show.
What kind of a day are youhaving today?
Lindz McLeod (01:16):
Quiet and also busy.
The several deadlines that Iwas putting off are rapidly
approaching.
This is hopefully a wonderfulbastion of safety away from my
pending deadlines.
Finbarre Snarey (01:27):
I must say that is a stunning room that you're
in there.
Is this your library?
Lindz McLeod (01:30):
It is.
It's the room that I work inmost of the time.
I was actually just posting theother day about my fiance
complaining that we had too manybooks, which is not a thing, as
we all know.
It's a strange thing that she'smade up.
I, I mean Americans, who canunderstand, but, um, what you
can't see is that the shelvesactually go most of the way
around.
There are quite a lot of booksin here, but I do contain it to
(01:52):
mostly just one room.
Finbarre Snarey (01:53):
So it's all neat, everything's on shelves,
but I I work in here surroundedby and inspired by other books
as well looking just behind youthere and if you were to just
read out a couple of booksyou've got there at random,
which ones kind of inspire youfrom your eyeline as you're
working there?
Lindz McLeod (02:09):
Oh well, I have some PhD books to the left of me
here, gosh.
I mean, they're all in order aswell, because I'm a terribly
organised person, because Ithink I have to be.
So we have.
Finbarre Snarey (02:22):
When you say order, are we talking order of
height, thickness, colorcategories so we have.
Lindz McLeod (02:27):
We have a non-fiction section over here,
which, of course, is broken downbecause I'm not a monster, um.
So we have science, we have art, we have biography and
autobiography, and then we havefiction.
The graphic novels and comicsare actually kept in, uh, in the
living room in a beautifuldisplay and again all in shelves
.
So, not a problem, no suchthing as too many books.
(02:49):
But I have to say there's quitea lot of short story
collections here, and, of course, that's something I do a lot.
I'm constantly reading shortstories and thinking about short
stories and talking about shortstories, and I do think it's a
really interesting skill and onethat can help when you're
writing longer work.
But at the same time, the shortstory is quite a different
beast entirely.
(03:10):
It's something I think about alot.
So I've got, for example, YoungSkins by Colin Barrett.
I have Carmen Maria Machado's,Her Body and Other Parties.
Oh, my fiance just got me ASunny Place for Shady People,
which is, um, Mariana, I think,Enriquez.
I haven't had a chance to lookat it yet, but it looks
incredible.
I'm really looking forward tothat.
(03:30):
I actually read a fair amount ofnonfiction as well.
There's some kind of blurringof the boundaries that I enjoy.
So one of the books that I havethat is a complete inspiration
to me I'd love to writesomething like this at some
point is Benjamin Labatut's whenwe Cease to Understand the
World, and this is a series ofessays where he is talking about
various different things.
(03:51):
A lot of it is Nazi related ina way, but then he will also
drop in things like the colorPrussian blue or what happens to
lemon trees when they die, andthere are points at which he
starts to blur the lines fromnonfiction to creative
nonfiction.
It is quite trippy in places,but I'm just astounded by this
(04:12):
book.
It was written I believe hewrote it in his original Spanish
and then he translated it, andI don't think the second one,
which I think he wrote inEnglish, quite matches the
beauty of the first.
I think the original languagebrings something to a poeticism
that doesn't quite work inEnglish, I think, or directly
English.
Finbarre Snarey (04:31):
One of my great regrets in life is learning
French at GCSE.
I wish I'd picked German, butthe reason why I picked French
oh really, I learn French too.
Well, at the time I wasthinking, you know, it'd be be
good for basically good formeeting girls and also for
reading baudelaire's poetry inthe original french.
This is how my teenage mindworked.
I must say, being able to reada language as it was written is.
(04:53):
There's nothing quite like it,but having to learn an entire
language to appreciate it notsure, not sure, right?
I've got cards in my hand andit's time for your first one.
Okay, are you ready?
Okay, and describe what you see.
Lindz McLeod (05:10):
Oh, I see, Is it the three of swords?
I think.
Finbarre Snarey (05:15):
What impressions do you get from that
card?
Lindz McLeod (05:21):
Well, it looks like three swords impaling a
heart and behind them there aresome clouds which look to be
raining.
Finbarre Snarey (05:25):
it looks like very much a conflict card my
understanding of the three ofswords is it's a card of
heartbreak, sorrow, emotionalpain, also loss as well.
So it's a reminder that thingscan be difficult.
Pain is a necessary part ofgrowth and healing and we can
emerge stronger.
That's the traditional meaning.
Let me think of a question foryou.
Let's take almost literally howdo you navigate part of growth
(05:45):
and healing and we can emergestronger?
That's the traditional meaning.
Let me think of a question foryou.
Let's take it almost literallyhow do you navigate themes of
heartbreak, loss and resiliencein your stories?
Lindz McLeod (05:55):
That's a good question.
I think I navigate them likeeverything else.
They're an intrinsic part oflife.
They're an intrinsic part ofstorytelling, and one of the
things that I talk about when Italk about weird fiction which I
do quite a lot is peoplesometimes ask okay, but if it's
weird or if it's surreal, how doyou get the reader to still
connect to what you're saying?
(06:15):
And the answer usually is thereare universal things that we
all connect to.
We understand love and loss andsacrifice and courage and
cowardice.
There are kind of these globalemotions and elements.
So, no matter how weird thestory is, or even how banal and
how straightforward it is, I'malways thinking what does this
(06:37):
character love?
What have they lost?
What would they do to get whatthey want?
Finbarre Snarey (06:42):
Looking back on the stories that you've written
most recently, which characterfeels most um applicable to that
?
Lindz McLeod (06:51):
oh well, which journey I feels okay so, um,
there's, there's two thingsthere and they're both very,
very different.
Uh, one of them is a book thatI wrote in kind of late summer
last year called mary anningdinosaur hunter.
Um, and it is about mary anning, the real person, but she
discovers a cave to the past andwhich is full of dinosaurs.
(07:13):
It is basically a link to thecretaceous period, although
cough cough it's, it iscretaceous, but we're hand
waving some things.
And she decides that this isthe way that she will force the
geological society to payattention to her.
If she can find a way to bringa live specimen out, then they
cannot ignore her anymore andshe goes quite a long way in
pursuit of that goal and shedoes some some very stupid
(07:36):
things as a result of wantingthis goal so badly.
And the other one is a veryshort a flash piece that I wrote
all in one go, um, about amonth or so ago, and I've called
it howdy cat, because HelloKitty is probably a trademark to
hell, and it is about Howdy Catwho becomes a astronaut and
(07:57):
goes through the NASA spacetraining program.
And Howdy Cat's humancompanions do not like Howdy Cat
and also she cannot speakbecause she is very much like,
though legally distinct from,hello Kitty and no mouse.
So it's it's kind of a play onthe the.
I have no mouth and I mustscream.
But it's also what would happenif, if this kind of non-human
(08:19):
character comes along on thespaceship to to do this mission.
They're, as you can see, verydifferent goals, very different
characters, but they both havethings that they want.
They have things that are beingdenied them by other people,
and, and what are they preparedto do to get those?
Are they prepared to put upwith abuse and harassment?
Are they prepared to put upwith humiliation and
embarrassment and shame?
(08:40):
Are they prepared to injurethemselves or other people in
pursuit of that goal?
And injure can mean a lot ofthings.
It's a very big spectrum.
Finbarre Snarey (08:49):
Excellent, right.
Well, so we have a card of lossto begin with.
Let's hope we get something alittle better, but I don't want
to uh, to jinx the cards.
It has happened in previousinterviews.
Okay, so I'm shuffling again.
Let me know when to stop okay,so here we have the.
Lindz McLeod (09:09):
Is it the four of swords?
Finbarre Snarey (09:11):
It is the four of swords exactly.
And what impressions do you get?
Lindz McLeod (09:14):
So we can see there are three swords hanging
on the wall and one sword iskind of laid horizontally.
Above the horizontal sword wecan see what looks to be a
knight lying in state, as it waslike dead Posed but dead.
Those are interesting choices.
Finbarre Snarey (09:32):
I like, I like them yeah, I find it fascinating
that the swords are coming outto play.
It was um in the last interviewI did.
Lindz McLeod (09:37):
It was pentacles throughout and, uh, hopefully
we'll get something a littledifferent on the next head
pretty apt for me um at themoment, like, yeah, we'll talk
about it, I'll answer yourquestion, yeah okay.
Finbarre Snarey (09:48):
So this one is resting, recovery, contemplation
.
It's a period of stillness,hardship, the invitation to take
a step back, regain your mentaland emotional strength, and
it's a reminder that trueclarity and renewal come through
peace and reflection.
So how do you balance rest andreflection with the demands of
being a writer?
Lindz McLeod (10:08):
Oh gosh.
I mean, my friends would say Idon't um, which is, and I
understand why.
So I last year I had, I hadquite a year.
I decided at some point in theyear that I was going to try and
write as many books as Ipossibly could in that year and
so I took um.
This was the result of havingsold a couple of books on
proposal and then having towrite them, and I decided that
(10:30):
wasn't enough pain andpunishment for myself.
I would go further.
So I took a deferral from myPhD for six months and I went
and wrote as many books as Icould.
I ended up fully writing fourand part writing another five.
It was kind of a nightmare.
And I also wrote multiple shortstories and something in the
end of about 430,000 wordsapproximately.
(10:53):
It was quite a lot.
I'm pretty sure that I narrowlyescaped interventions.
On at least three separateoccasions.
My friends kept saying come forcoffee, but there was a tone
and I kept slithering out ofthem like an octopus backwards
through a vent in the hope thatI would just make it through the
year.
(11:13):
My fiancé also tried to give meseveral interventions and I did
listen to them, but onlybecause we live in the same
house and I had to.
Basically, it was my way ofsaying I feel very frustrated
about how slow everything is.
Publishing is a glacialindustry and I'm quite a fast
writer.
I'm also very ambitious andthere's very little control that
you have over that.
(11:33):
At a certain point, when you'requerying, it's different,
because if you get rejectionsfrom agents, you can just query
more agents.
When you're actually agentedand you're going on submission
with editors, you have nocontrol over how long they take
to get back to you.
And I was also working with aproduction company who's
shopping my work in Hollywoodfor adaptation, also working
with a production company who'sshopping my work in Hollywood
(11:55):
for adaptation and, of course,almost within sort of six to
eight months of starting to dothat, there were the writer
strikes as well.
So last year was a period of meburning myself out completely in
every possible way and tryingto do everything.
And then I sort of took a stepback once I had reached my goal
and sort of said you know what,this year 2025, will be a little
(12:15):
bit different.
I am planning to do things adifferent way.
I've already been doing thingsin a different way.
I'm having something called aweekend which is, you know, only
on occasion is a treat, but itis nice.
And remembering that I can fillthe quiver with as many arrows
as I like, but I, you know, Iit's not like the world is going
to end tomorrow.
(12:35):
I can take time about doingthat and I've already.
I can rest reassured in theknowledge that I have worked
really hard and I've done all Ican.
Those things are kind of Icannot talk too much about them,
but in the last two weeks somesome exciting things have
happened in multiple areas, um,of various industries, and
hopefully I'll be able toannounce something soon, but
it's been really nice to see, umthings actually happening.
(12:59):
And of course, both the uh, thefilm and television industry
and the publishing industry.
They're both very slow andthere is this kind of delayed
gratification going on where youmight write something, uh, two
or three years ago and only nowsomeone's saying we love it and
you're like, oh, that thing,sure, I mean okay, great,
wonderful.
But it is kind of like making ameal and then you have to
(13:22):
freeze it and not eat it for ayear.
It can feel very no one'spatting you on the head when
you've done it.
So it is very much an industryfor people who like to hurt
themselves in various differentways.
You have to be kind of preparedto be stubborn and sort of let
yourself be powered by spite alot of the time, and that can
turn you into someone bitter.
So it's also important to stepback and sort of say like am I
(13:44):
proud of the work that I'mproducing?
Am I happy with what I'm doing?
And if I'm not, then you know,make some adjustments here and
there.
But I definitely feel like Ihave gone through some things.
I went through some things in2024 and I'm now at a place
where I feel better about mycareer.
I feel like I'm able to pickand choose more things, which is
a relief no-transcript.
Finbarre Snarey (14:05):
Excellent, I have to say.
Thank you so much for joiningus in your place of work on your
weekend.
Lindz McLeod (14:11):
I genuinely wasn't joking.
I don't often have a weekend,and a weekend for me means I get
like maybe three or four hourson both days to relax.
The rest of the time I'm aterrible workaholic.
This is the thing.
I'm trying to wean myself offit a little bit, but it is a
problem.
Finbarre Snarey (14:31):
Can I ask?
We're pulling out a lot of soldcards so far.
I did pick up in an interviewthat I read from a little while
ago that you likened yourstories, or the inspiration for
your stories, to splinters.
Can you talk to me about that?
Lindz McLeod (14:39):
yeah.
So I'd like to say, oh, a storyis a wonderful seed that blooms
, and then you get to prune itand and and water it and and
look at the flower and I'm like,no, I wake up with something
burning and itching inside me.
And look at the flower and I'mlike, no, I wake up with
something burning and itchinginside me and I have to go and
work it out with the tweezers ofmy own fingers on a keyboard.
I often can't get thecharacters to behave how I want.
They just tell me what thestory is.
(15:00):
They're in my head.
There's a scene in Americanfiction I don't know if you saw
that last year which was anadaptation of Percival Everett's
Erasure, and in it you can seethe main character, he's writing
the scene, and then hischaracters, who are like in the
room, turn to him and say wait,what am I saying?
That doesn't sound right andthat I laughed so much because
that's exactly what it feelslike.
(15:21):
A lot of the time they're likewhat?
I'm not going to do that rightnow.
I'm like, no, but you, the plotsays that you have to and they
just don't want to do it andit's frustrating, but no, it
does feel very much like I havean idea, and now I will.
I will cancel films, I willcancel outings, I will just
burrow myself into thiswonderful room that you see here
and until I've worked it out ofmy system because otherwise I
(15:43):
can hardly think about anythingelse it has to be kind of
tweezed out gently and even if Ijust get the bare bones of it
dying, that helps.
But I'll get really antsy if Ican't go and work and often like
the prose is putting itselftogether in my head as I'm
running to the library.
Finbarre Snarey (15:59):
Okay, right, Third card.
It is so two cards down.
They'll stay where they are.
I'll keep shuffling and let meknow when to stop.
Okay, so how does this make youfeel?
What do you see?
Lindz McLeod (16:13):
Okay, so the ten wands are gathered together in
kind of a bundle and there iswhat looks like almost sort of
like a page character holdingthem all together.
There's almost a Sisypheanelement to this.
It looks like, you know, know,there's kind of a um, it's an
uphill struggle to keep theseones together.
(16:34):
They, literally, they kind ofwant to fall apart, but this
character is holding themtogether.
This, this is becoming almosttoo revealing in a way, given
what I just said.
I feel I feel seen, I feelperceived yeah, so do I.
Finbarre Snarey (16:46):
This is depicting exactly how I was
trying to get all of mychristmas decorations yesterday
yes, I appreciate it sometimesince christmas, up the stairs
and into the loft.
So, yes, 10 of wandssymbolizing burden,
responsibility, hard work uhit's.
The weight of obligations canbe physical, mental, emotional,
overwhelming.
Uh, it shows that you've takenon too much, as you've rightly
seen, carrying too heavy a load.
(17:08):
Uh, the lesson is to delegateand release those unnecessary
burdens.
Lindz McLeod (17:14):
Well, I didn't expect an intervention from you
as well, but I know I keptescape it, so I see what has
happened.
Finbarre Snarey (17:21):
Hey, I blame the cards entirely.
Okay, so ten of wands.
Do you feel extra pressure as aqueer writer to represent your
community and how do you handlethat?
Lindz McLeod (17:30):
Yeah, absolutely Of course, and I've talked about
this a little bit in.
I had a story come out in Apexmagazine in January, a novelette
that focuses on queercharacters being erased from the
universe.
And nobody knows why it'shappening, it just is, and in it
Apex also interviewed me aswell, uh, with marissa van oden,
(17:51):
and we talked a little bitabout that exact question about
feeling, when you are part ofsome minority, that you always
have to be on as a spokesperson,you're not allowed to simply be
and I think I quoted whoever itwas that said about the sort of
trump camilla thing is he getsto be lawless.
Well, she has to be flawless,and I do feel like that's the
(18:11):
case.
I also think that there is acertain amount of obviously
there's huge pressure that I puton myself because of my own
ambition and I do do a lot ofdifferent things, but I also try
to be available and do as muchfor the community as possible.
And this is again extrapressure that I put on myself
and extra responsibility, and Ido feel the weight of it.
(18:32):
But to me it's a necessaryweight because when I was kind
of coming up, I benefited a lotfrom advice from certain other
writers when they had time togive that to me, and I always
thought that if I ever was in aposition to give back then I
would, and so I consistently tryto do that, even when I
absolutely don't have time forit.
I will sort of give up hours ofsleep just to help other people
(18:53):
, if I can.
I've been mentoring writers foryears.
I was supposed to be through aone-year program.
That program ended and sort ofthree years later we're still
mentoring them.
I'm doing everything I can.
I edit queries for freewhenever anybody wants one.
I will never charge for that,and if anyone wants advice, On
(19:13):
top of your existing workload.
Firstly, it turns out I'm reallygood at queries, but it's
obviously not a useful skill forme anymore.
I actually edited my fiance'squery and she had multiple
offers from agents, which isalso a great book.
So it's something like I teachworkshops on and I will edit for
free afterwards as well.
Um, but I I feel like it'sreally important to give back.
(19:34):
It's an industry that pits usagainst each other, that
suggests there's only so manyspots and so many people can
make it, and so we're all crabsin a bucket fighting each other.
But actually that is how.
That is how they would like usto be, because then we're not
supporting each other, thenwe're not lifting each other up,
but a rising tide lifts allboats.
I don't understand why we can't.
Um, so I'm I've sort of made itlike a mission, a steely-eyed,
(19:58):
optimistic mission, to try tohelp people as much as I can and
whenever I've helped people.
I think I must be the onlyeditor in the world who is like
no, stop paying me, I don't.
I don't want your money.
Like, of course I need money.
I'm a.
My bank account looks like aslender, Dickensian orphan, but,
like you know, can you justplease, can you just give it
back, pay it forward to otherpeople.
(20:20):
If you know, if I help you now,if someone else asks you for
help or advice, like, can youjust give it and and try to make
sure that everybody has theknowledge that they need to get
where they want to go.
And also, you know, in thisindustry, hard work and talent
will only take you so far.
It is also about gettingyourself into the right place at
the right time.
That requires a certain amountof luck and sacrifice, but it
(20:41):
also requires the knowledge tobe able to angle yourself into a
position where you can receivethe opportunity in the first
place.
If you don't know something'shappening, you can't.
You can't get to it.
So I'm always like, if I'veever helped anyone in any
respect, there's a non-zerochance that I will slide into
your dms and say, hey, have youseen this submission thing?
Or have you seen this likegrant, that would be great for
(21:02):
you.
Um, you know, just a heads up,because yeah, I just, if I can
leave this world a little bitbetter than how I entered it, in
some way, then you know that'sa life well lived.
I'd be okay with that.
Finbarre Snarey (21:14):
That's a beautifully positive card to end
on, and I do have a bonusquestion to ask.
This is from my wife, who'svery interested in your upcoming
romance novel, the UnlikelyPursuit of Mary Bennett.
What inspired it?
Lindz McLeod (21:29):
Well, two things.
One is that my agent suggestedthat I write romance, which I
just laughed.
I said I don't write romanceand she said you do, there's
romance in almost all of yourwork.
And I went away and thoughtabout it and realized that much
like other areas, she wastotally right and that's
annoying.
So I was like, okay, well, letme write a proposal for you then
(21:50):
let's see how that goes.
I don't know if you're correctand, um, we sold it pretty
immediately.
So I was.
I was surprised, but not at thesame time.
I probably should have clockedit beforehand.
I have always been a huge fanof Austin, um, and I was
actually just uh, posting onBlues ky.
Today there's a, an article inthe Guardian about retellings
and a lot of new book covers forkind of older things, but I
(22:13):
thought there had been enoughretellings.
I wanted to do a continuationand also my fiance is a great
fan of Austen, although, as inmany other respects, she's
incorrect that Austen's bestbook is not Persuasion, it is
Pride and Prejudice.
We will argue about that.
I would like to do a Persuasioncontinuation for her someday,
but mainly it was also writtenas a labor of love to her.
(22:34):
The characters fall in loveover the meanings of flowers,
and it's all very tender andromantic and at every point I
was thinking you know how can Ibest amuse her?
What would make her happy toread this?
And of course there's.
I got to do little letters atthe start of many of the
chapters from characters thatyou might know.
One of my favorites is from MrsBennett and she is exactly how
(22:57):
you would imagine.
She's like so sorry, yourhusband died.
Anyway, all about me, myproblems, my life is really hard
and just no one really gets me.
Anyway, thoughts and prayers,and it's just fantastic to be
able to, to be allowed to dosomething like that.
But I also thought mainly theidea came from.
I understand the point ofCharlotte Lucas in the original
(23:18):
text she is there as this kindof mirror, this contrast to
Lizzie, um, so we get to see howmost people end up and most
women end up.
But I always thought charlottewas just read kind of queer to
me and I thought like, oh,wouldn't that be kind of
interesting to explore whatwould happen there if we gave
her the opportunity to have asecond chance.
(23:40):
You know, in the, in the first,in the original text, she's
very much like.
This is my last chance.
You know I have to marry him.
I'm a burden to my parents andto everyone.
There's a lot of pressure onher.
And what if we take away someof that pressure but we apply it
in different ways, with sometime and experience and sort of
wisdom of being out in the world?
Is she going to make the samechoices and keep herself in this
(24:04):
little box, or is she going tomake choices that will maybe
break her out of that?
Will she do it for a period oftime and then return to this
safe, comfortable confines thatshe knows?
Is she willing to do a littlemore?
Because I've always seen her asa character who had to play it
safe.
She didn't have any otheropportunity, so I was really
curious to see what would happenif she had the option not to.
Finbarre Snarey (24:26):
If she had the option not to.
Yeah, I think, given that mybookshelves at the moment are
too deep and I also have booksarranged around the top in the
way that you do when you'reshort on space, I think this and
Sunbathers are going to be areason for me to get some more
shelves.
Thank you so much.
Thank you very much.
From weaving eerie, surrealtales to exploring love and
longing through the written word, Linza's journey is one of bold
(24:49):
imagination and fearlessstorytelling.
Whether through the darkcorridors of horror, the tender
embrace of romance or thedreamlike twists of speculative
fiction, Her work invites us tosee the world and ourselves
differently.
With the unlikely pursuit ofMary Bennett on the horizon and
a PhD exploring the power ofstorytelling, Lindz continues to
shape literature in unexpectedand profound ways.
(25:12):
I'll speak to you later in thenext episode of Tarot Interviews
.
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