July 15, 2025 • 35 mins
Is James Gunn’s Superman the reboot DC fans have been waiting for?
In this episode of Thanks, I’ll Take It From Here, we break down the 2025 Superman film with a special guest. From plot twists and political themes to Ultraman, Krypto, and Mister Terrific stealing scenes, we cover what this new era of DC is really about.
We also unpack how the film mirrors both past and present global tensions, and debate whether Lex Luthor is a visionary or just unhinged.
Subscribe for next week’s Fantastic Four breakdown.
Also catch me at Baltimore Comic Con and send me a DM if you’ll be there.
Follow the pod on TikTok and Instagram: @takeitfromherepod.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey everyone, welcome back to Things I'll take from here.
Today we're breaking down the new Superman film, which is
James Gunn's reimagining of the Man of Steel that's kicking off
the new DC Universe. There's drama, there's politics,
there's clones, and yes, there is a super dog.
And joining me is someone very special, my husband Daniel.
I've been trying to get him on the pod for a while and glad he
(00:21):
could join me in this episode. So let's walk through the plot
and talk about what hit, what miss, and what we'd rate the
film. This film opens with a quick
recap of Clark's origin. Krypton is destroyed, his
parents sent him to Earth, and he's raised by the Kent's in
Kansas. By the time we meet him, he's
(00:42):
already been Superman for about 3 years working at the Daily
Planet with Lois and Jimmy. Honestly, I like this trend of
skipping the full origin story. At this point, we know these
characters just give us a compelling story.
Did you like that they skipped the whole origin story and just
gave us the world where Supermanis already established?
(01:03):
Yes, I found, you know, over thecourse of the last maybe 60-70
years, I think the public has kind of figured out who Superman
is roughly. I think they did a really great
job of establishing in, you know, maybe what 5-6 lines of
text who Superman is, where he'sbeen, and which version of the
character that you're looking at.
(01:23):
From there, you now get to see what kind of small variations
they're going to put on the original character.
I don't want to get too far intospoilers just yet, but you know
the the elements of the character that are maybe going
to deviate from established loreor you know where they're going
to follow along traditional paths.
I'm glad you bought up spoilers because yeah, if you haven't
seen this, you need to watch that and then come back because
(01:45):
this is loaded with spoilers. But to jump on that note, even
if you haven't seen it right, I feel like through cultural
osmosis, we know who Superman is.
Not to dig out the creators of Superman, but if you asked a
third grader to create a superhero, it probably would be
Superman. Like, we get it.
I think we'll have a fundamentaldisagreement on, I guess what
you're going with, the basicnessof Superman I'm putting little
(02:07):
quotation marks around. That Oh my God.
OK. Look, I I understand that that
his powers might not be the mostoriginal, but his powers are not
the most interesting part of hisstories.
Superman is about his moral character, and I think this
movie does a great job of divingright into the heart of that
(02:30):
subject. It's not about him as a physical
being beating up villains. It's about who he is.
I think you are right that Superman can be layered like
that, but also he's a dude with blazer eyes.
Very cool laser eyes. I'm gonna go with very cool
laser eyes. So very early on in the film, I
(02:54):
think Gun hits us with a gut punch.
Superman, he's literally the most powerful being on Earth,
gets defeated right out of the gate by the Hammer of Boravia,
which we find out he's not just a mysterious soldier, he's
Ultraman, who's a clone of Superman that Lex Luthor created
(03:14):
and controls using drones. I actually applaud James Gunn
for making that choice. Opening the film with Superman
defeated sets the tone immediately.
This isn't a power fantasy, it'sa world where actions have
weight. And the whole opening scene
being shot in real snow in Norway adds this gritty, tactile
(03:36):
realism that makes everything feel more grounded.
And it's not all blue screens and lens flare.
This Superman bleeds. If I can also add, I think
something that they carry throughout the entire film is
established in that early minute, basically right where
they don't focus on the physicality of Superman.
(03:57):
It's about his character. You don't watch him get his butt
kicked by the hammer. You see the aftermath and the
emotional result of him getting his butt kicked.
I agree with you that we don't. We don't really see that fight
happen, we just see the fallout from that fight.
And I think the entire film is about the fallout of Superman's
(04:19):
actions, reactions, and character.
Immediately at the start of the film, that's where they pick up.
It also humanizes him. He's an immigrant who's come
from a different alien planet, but at the end of the day, he
thinks of himself as human. And while yes, he has strength
beyond any of us could ever achieve, he's still capable of
(04:40):
bleeding. He is still human.
And you know, I think where things get even messier is 3
weeks before the main events of the movie Superman stops Boravia
AUS Ally from invading Jahanpour.
Jahanpour. Oh Jahanpour, sorry y'all don't
come for me. He he stops them from invading
(05:03):
Jar Jar. Poor fuck.
Jar Han poor. Just take that audio and put it
over every time you want to say it.
I'm keeping this in. I'm keeping this in.
I need to be held accountable for my lack of wokeness.
Well, it's it's a made-up country.
(05:24):
You can't. Hopefully you can't be canceled
for mispronouncing a made-up fictional place.
Yeah, but regardless, they are aneighboring country to Boravia,
and Superman intervened in this country's dealings.
I think that immediately starts to blur the lines between
heroism and global politics. Superman isn't just saving
(05:48):
people, he's actively interfering with military action
on a geopolitical scale. And Lex Luthor jumps right in on
that. He warns the US government that
if Superman ever acts against national interests again, he has
a plan to eliminate him. And it's a major turning point
in how Superman is viewed not just as a hero, but as a
(06:10):
potential political liability. And then he starts describing
his secret weapon, which is likea team of soldiers.
And not just any team, but hyperlethal operatives specifically
engineered and trained to kill Superman.
He calls them dangerous and powerful, the kind of force you
(06:32):
don't unleash lightly. And then, in this chilling
moment, Lex gives a subtle nod and one of those same soldiers
he described as basically scary steps forward and turns the
light on for his presentation. That moment said everything
these soldiers are built to takedown, frankly, A literal God,
(06:54):
and he reduces 1 to flipping a switch like a glorified intern.
I think that moment was really significant because it shows
he's the one who is the most powerful person in the room,
right? Like he's the one who's in
control. And I think that's what James
Gunn put that moment in there for.
I think in addition to that, I think it goes to Lex Luthor's
(07:16):
character that he has quite literally dehumanized metahumans
in this version of the DC Universe.
And also, mind you, that character, if I'm remembering
correctly, that was the character who is the clone of
Superman. So in another sense, he is
ordering basically Superman around as his, well, for lack of
(07:37):
a better word, as his bitch. So I think there's there's a
couple of layers going on there.Yeah.
He's dehumanizing metahumans as a rule.
He's dehumanizing Superman and he's controlling Superman, and I
think it's a big ego trip for his character.
I actually really appreciate that James Gunn leaned into this
geopolitical angle. I feel like he was channeling
the tensions of our present. There are echoes of Ukraine and
(08:01):
Russia and also what's happeningin Gaza.
This film doesn't name names butthe commentary is definitely
there. It reminded me so much of Cold
War proxy conflicts. I'm curious what your thoughts
as someone who's a history buff is on this whole Cold War vibe I
think James Gunn was going for. Did that land for you?
(08:23):
I think that really did land with me now, whether or not it
was originally intended with thewith the comic book creators, I
think Superman has taken on as embodiment of America as a
global political military force.In a person, he is a force of
doing the most good or evil. And I think what is ultimately
(08:46):
great, at least in my mind, about the character of Superman
is that early on he was filled with this kind of embodiment of
honest American values, the mostpure, idealized version of it.
Perhaps because there's definitely a lot to say about
how, you know, America has perhaps changed over the last 50
(09:07):
or 60 years, but let's just go with the the idealized kind of
Rockwell America. And I think that's what Superman
has come to embody that he is this person who fights
inequality, you know, and that Ithink was actually very much
baked into the original character.
There are early Superman comics of him, you know, literally
Superman, you know, fights the KKK is one of his early comics
(09:30):
is Superman punches Hitler. Captain America also did that.
But, you know, like, Superman helped fight in World War 2,
helped, you know, defeat Nazism and fascism across the world and
helped to any American values throughout the world in the kind
of fictional DC universe, perhaps in a way that America
may not have fully embodied throughout its history,
(09:50):
including the Cold War. We'll put that aside and
probably pick it up again when we talk about Jar Hampor.
Jar Hampor. That's what I'm going with.
If we're mispronouncing it, sorry to the fictional people of
Jar HAMP or. Don't cancel us, please.
But Speaking of geopolitical tension, we have to talk about
the interview scene between Loisand Clark.
(10:12):
And I love this little Easter egg.
The recorder Lois uses has the Lord Tech logo on it.
That's the same company funding the Justice Gang or whatever
they're calling themselves, which subtly shows how embedded
corporate power is in this world.
Now, that interview feels casualon the surface.
It's in Lois''s apartment. It's not a press conference or a
(10:34):
newsroom, but the the emotional and political tension underneath
is definitely there. She presses Clark about what
happened in Boravia and Dragonpore, and she's not
attacking him. She's doing her job, which is
holding someone accountable for stepping into a war zone.
(10:56):
But you can see Clark strugglingto hold both identities in that
moment. He's trying to respond as both
Clark Kent and Superman at once,and we start to see that mass
slip. I think what really struck me,
though, is that Clark genuinely believes he did the right thing.
His actions are still decided bythat broken message his parents
(11:20):
left him, and I think he really wanted to embody that message,
right? He really clung to the idea that
he was sent to Earth to protect it and be a force for good and
to help. And that's what's so compelling.
I think one of the big themes ofthis movie is that heroism is a
(11:40):
choice, not something you're born into.
But at this particular point in the story, this Superman, still,
he's heroism as destiny, as a purpose.
And even as the world begins to question him, he clings to that
belief, not because he's arrogant, but because it's all
he's ever known. So after that intense interview
(12:03):
with Lois and Clark and I guess Superman, I think Superman feels
already like he's under a microscope.
And then that's when Lex Luthor makes his big move.
He unleashes that massive Kaiju on Metropolis as a diversion.
And this is when we get introduced, obviously, to the
Justice Gang, which is Hawk Girl, Green Lantern and Mr.
(12:26):
Terrific. As they're handling the chaos of
the Kaiju, Luther sneaks into the Fortress of Solitude and he
steals and restores Superman's parents message and then takes
crypto like evil. That was the most evil part of
the movie. I thought we were going to get a
John Wick moment like. But here's the twist.
(12:48):
Luther broadcast the full message to the world.
And the second-half of that audio.
Clark has never heard it before,and it turns out his parents
didn't just want him to protect Earth, they wanted him to
conquer it and rebuild Krypton and take as many wives as he
(13:10):
needed. It completely redefines
everything he thought his purpose was.
And that hit me really hard because I think he always
believed he was there to inspire, to do good.
And suddenly the mission that shaped his entire identity has
this dark imperialist undercurrent.
(13:32):
So I'm curious, what was your reaction to hearing the parents
full message? I was mad that that was the
message they ultimately, you know, went with not because I
didn't think it was a good storymove or a good, you know, kind
of story beat. I was just, I was mad because I
I wanted them to be good people and I wanted them to, to live up
(13:53):
to that idealism and they didn't.
And that's probably how Supermanfelt.
From my, you know, recollection of how he reacted in the film, I
think that's what they were going for, is, is that he wanted
his biological parents to live up to the ideals that he was
living, and they didn't. And this gets into that, you
know, that pivotal second scene of the duality of Superman when
(14:15):
he's sitting down with his father on the porch, you know,
eaten porridge and looking at a sunrise or a sunset, I don't
recall which. And just, you know, talking
about what it means to be your own man.
I think everything that you weresaying is right, and I think
that's what makes this so devastating.
And also, this was personal. Like Luther made this attack
(14:36):
personal. He wasn't just trying to beat
Superman, he wanted to unravel him.
This wasn't about brute force. It was about identity, his
history, his legacy, even cryptolike gone.
Every emotional nerve was targeted.
Did that come through for you? Because for me, it felt like Lex
was trying to hollow him out, not just defeat him, but
(14:59):
dismantle everything he believedhe was.
I don't think a character like Lex Luthor as a entirely
self-centered narcissistic asshole would accept anything
other than Superman not just being physically beaten because
that's possible in this universe.
It's it's clear that that Superman could be defeated and
(15:19):
potentially killed, and perhaps,maybe not easily, but at least
it's within reason for Lex Luthor's abilities.
He wants Superman to be wiped out as a character, as a person.
He wants to prove that he is ultimately better.
And Lex Luthor would accept nothing less than Superman's
(15:40):
entire character being disgraced, dismantled, destroyed
and gone. I think he kind of uses that to
flip the public immediately. The public flipped on Superman.
People go from celebrating Superman to fearing him.
What followed that broadcast wasa lot of anti Superman
propaganda. And we learned later that for
(16:02):
some reason Lex Luthor has monkeys that are bots that are
flooding feeds with anti Superman propaganda, which we
know what you were trying to do there, James Scott.
Absolutely. I see you and save this night
reverse. Stop saying save the Snyder
verse. Save the Snyder verse.
Moving on, I think it's really interesting how he was able to
(16:24):
weaponize essentially bots to change the public's opinion on
Superman. What really gets me is even
after Superman sees how quickly the public turned on him, how
quickly the government turned onhim, he still for some reason
believes in the system and also in doing the right thing.
(16:44):
So he obviously ultimately surrenders, like, literally
walks himself into custody. And I think it's because he
still wants to do the right thing.
And also he wants to say crypto.Do you think Gunn was making a
bigger point there about how institutions will always
prioritize control over truth? Maybe because that moment really
(17:05):
stuck with me. What do you think James Gunn was
trying to stay there with that plot point?
Yeah. Well.
So 1, I think, you know, the fact that the public turned on
Superman quickly. I understand that.
You know, if I were looking at aultimately powerful being and
thought he was, he was there to help me and then all of the
sudden learned, you know, beyonda shadow of a doubt that he was
(17:26):
a threat to me this whole time, a secret threat.
I would join his harem. I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
I'm sorry. Sorry.
We'll have to. We'll have.
To work on that later. We'll we'll unpack that in
couples therapy. I think that the public shifting
made sense and I can understand why Superman, you know, as a
more empathetic character, mightsay, let me see the most good in
(17:48):
people. I think Superman understands to
a fundamental level he, well, frankly, because he is almost
invincible. He can handle people having fear
and people perhaps reacting withtheir fear on a way that a
regular person might not be ableto.
It's funny you said Invincible because I feel like at this
point in the the film I couldn'thelp but to think about the show
(18:09):
Invincible. James Gunn was sitting in his
living room watching Invincible or reading the comic one day and
you just went, oh, that's a great idea.
Let me let me just write that one down.
Can't you describe to the listeners the connection between
Invincible and the plot point ofthe message Superman parents
left for him? Sure.
So effectively, I think Invincible is a inverse
(18:34):
character of Superman from a meta textual perspective.
Is that, you know, maybe not Invincible the younger
character, but his father. I always forget his name.
Let's just call him Big Daddy Invincible.
Right. Well anyway, the ambassador of
the Viltrumite Empire is effectively you know, if Krypton
didn't get destroyed and they serve as an imperial power
(18:55):
across the universe that you know, uses their Superman like
strength to subjugate and colonize planets across the
Invincible universe. You know, and the main character
of Invincible rejects that you notion and rejects his father in
the same way that Superman is rejecting his father.
We'll get to that, but just to get back to where we are in the
(19:17):
plot. So Superman has clearly turned
himself into custody and we see Lex throw him into a pocket
dimension prison. And inside we see Crypto,
Metamorpho. And then, one of the darkest
moments in the whole movie, Luther forces Metamorpho to make
Kryptonite by threatening his infant sign.
(19:41):
And then with no hesitation, he kills an innocent man, a man who
had one brief interaction with Superman earlier in the film.
Did that moment turn the tone for you?
Were you expecting things to getthis dark in a Superman film and
this political, frankly? Yeah, I kind of was.
(20:01):
I think that the political atmosphere in America has turned
into such a kind of cesspool. And I think James Gunn is is
very much hype are aware of thatperspective.
I mean that we're looking at political leaders who are who
are looking to inflict pain on people because of some kind of
deep insecurity. And I think that Lex Luthor is
(20:22):
directly modeled off of many of the, let's say, wealthy
billionaires who are using theirpower and influence, social
media influence and otherwise toinflict pain on others because
they're deeply insecure, weak men.
There's a couple of people, frankly, that I think he's kind
of modeling him after. I think what really hit for me
was who stood by Superman in that moment, The justice saying
(20:46):
at first they didn't want to touch anything with this, right.
I think Superman's reputation was tanked and they just they
didn't want to touch it with a 10 foot pole.
But Lois Lane and Mr. Terrific says, no, he's still worth
saving. And thank God for Mr. Terrific,
who honestly becomes the moral core of this whole story.
And also, quick sidebar, if you didn't recognize the actor,
(21:10):
that's Eddie. That's Eddie.
Guffey Gee. Cancel her.
Cancel her now. I'm so bad at names, y'all.
I'm so bad at names. But if you don't remember him.
Immediate cancellation. The monkeys are there for you.
My God, the save. The Snyder Verse.
Leave the Snyder verse where it is.
(21:30):
But anyway, for those who don't remember him, he played Darwin
in X Men's First Class. He was the mutant whose whole
power was adapting to survive, yet for some strange reason they
still killed him. In an interview with The
Hollywood Reporter, Eddie said he had a problem with the fact
that his character was the only black character in the film.
(21:51):
Aside from Zoe Kravis, obviously, to die halfway
through the film. And Marvel said they would bring
him back and then they just did it.
I honestly feel that was like a slap in the face to me.
I mean, his whole thing was thathe couldn't die and I'll still
killed him. And I think seeing Eddie return
back into the superhero world asMr. Terrific, not just as a side
(22:17):
character, but a leader with real purpose and depth felt
powerful to me. And like, he finally got the
role that he was owed. And I'm really curious how you
felt about his character throughout the film, because for
me, he honestly stole almost every scene he was in.
That fight sequence with Lois inthe bubble was top tier, and he
(22:38):
was calm and completely commanding without ever doing
too much. Like, I think Mr. Terrific
really lived up to his name. The action scene that he was in
kicked ass. Yeah, it had that James Gunn
flair, and I think that's what James Gunn does really well, is
like these fight scenes with like some badass music.
He has a couple of moves. That's one of his moves, and I
(23:00):
love that move every time it shows up.
I think they did it what, coupletimes in Creature Commandos,
yeah. Guardians.
Yeah, Scooby-doo. My favorite scene in Creature
Commandos with the the Nazi killing robot.
Just everything about it. He was a really great character
in this film, and I'm so glad that him and Lois were able to
(23:21):
help Superman escape that pocketdimension.
And I think when Superman escaped, Lex totally unravels
and he powers up the reactor andnow we're staring down the
barrel of a black hole ripping through Metropolis.
Meanwhile, the Justice Gang finally gets involved.
(23:44):
They arrive just in time to fendoff the second Boravian
invasion. And here's the kicker, right,
Hop Girl just straight up murders the Boravian dictator
and declares I'm not Superman and then drops him to his death.
And that moment was cold and powerful.
(24:06):
And Gun is leaning into what makes DC unique.
Heroes in DC are flawed. They take real risk and aren't
afraid to redefine what quote UNquote good looks like.
How did you feel about the GreenLantern character and also Hawk
Girl in this movie? And if you didn't know, Green
(24:29):
Lantern is actually getting his own show with HBO and it's
apparently going to be a detective show.
So I'm curious how you feel about his character.
Would you be excited to see him in this show?
And how you felt about Hot Girl when she made that decision to
eat that man from the sky. That bowl cut is a crime against
humanity, but it was hilarious, more so than any of the
(24:52):
potential war crimes he committed with his giant middle
fingers. Would you be excited to see this
character in a kind of It seems like the show is going to be
some kind of detective series. It's apparently draws
inspiration from the show True Detective, if you're familiar
with that show at all. Well, I am, or rather have been
a fan of Nathan Fillion from back with Firefly.
(25:14):
You know in what, 2005? So I'm always excited to see
more Nathan Fillion in anything,bowl cut or not.
Bowl cut and all. Yeah, bowl cut and all.
I don't even want them to lose it.
You know, at first I was kind ofdisturbed when I saw the promo
pictures with him wearing that bowl cut.
And I was like, what are they doing?
(25:34):
Do we have an answer? No, I don't know.
We're not. I think it's.
You know, like the giant middle finger.
I think he just does not care. I'm not I'm not sure if I'm
convinced that a a true crime kind of story is the best place
to show a Green Lantern story. He'll.
Also be taking another Green Lantern from what I read briefly
(25:55):
under his wing and they're goingto be solving crimes together.
His characters kind of arrogant and I think that could play
great in a buddy cop story, you know, and I think generally I'm
willing to give James Gunn the benefit of the doubt when it
comes to, you know, pulling odd story elements and sticking them
into, you know, superhero stories.
I think he as a, you know, as a writer, fundamentally
(26:17):
understands character. So I'm more than willing to give
him the benefit of the doubt, and I'm more than willing to
watch. Yeah, I'm interested too.
I'm secretly hoping that the team that made Penguin will
somehow be involved with this, but I doubt it.
But let's get back to where we are in the plot.
So we see the Justice Gang or whatever they call themselves
(26:40):
teaming up with Metamorpho to help stop this invasion.
And that's kind of like the B plot.
Jumping back to the A plot, we get the final fight scenes of
the film and Superman is barely holding his own against Ultraman
and the Engineer. And honestly, can we talk about
the engineer for a minute? One of my critiques for the film
(27:00):
is how underdeveloped her character felt.
She says she altered her body, gave up her humanity for Lex.
But I don't know, I didn't fullybuy it.
Like I feel like Gun didn't really flush out her character
enough for me. Like her motivations.
I didn't understand what the emotional core was for her in
(27:21):
driving some of her choices and decision making.
It felt like we were supposed tojust accept it because it
sounded cool, but for me that part didn't land.
What about you? Did that work for you, or did it
feel a little thin to you too? When you point it out, I think I
can recognize that. But I also think in a, in a film
that has what, maybe 10 to 15 major characters in play, you
(27:46):
know, you can't win them all when it comes to, you know, deep
story progression. So, you know, I look at that and
I say, yeah, they definitely didn't put the effort into
developing her as a character. And if I they killed her off I
think as well. So I think she survived, maybe.
So I think in the fight scenes, right, I think overall Superman
(28:06):
was able to defeat them. I think the engineer, she like
passed out, but she was fine. And then we see him also defeat
Ultraman and the what we see with him defeat Ultraman is
really Ultraman getting sucked up into a black hole, which like
we didn't see him die. So low key he could still be
(28:27):
alive. I'm sure he could potentially
come back in a future movie, TV show or something.
I think when you don't see the character flat out die, it's
because they have an interest indoing something more with the
character if given the opportunity.
I think character is doing a lotof heavy lifting in that
sentence there. The character of Ultraman was
(28:49):
really a blank slate for Lex Luthor's insecurities, frankly.
You know he's literally a pile of muscles that listens to Lex
Luthor's commands. I'm so glad you bought that up
because my next point that I wasgoing to talk about is how Lex
Luthor controls Ultraman. It seriously felt like we were
watching him play a video game. He was like barking out commands
(29:11):
and then Ultraman would immediately respond.
It was like very clinical and jarring.
And I think Lex didn't see him as a person at all, like you
said, just he saw him as a tool,honestly, like a joystick with
fists. And I think that leads us into
the final battle between Lex andSuperman.
(29:31):
And it's not just physical, right?
It's also psychological. But this time, Superman's
grounded. He's not fighting to fulfill
some destiny of a Kryptonian directive.
He's fighting for his truth. But before we move on, I want to
take a moment to actually talk about Lex Luthor's motives for a
(29:54):
second. Unlike someone dimensional
villains, Lex Luthor isn't just in it for power, though that's
definitely part of it. His plan runs way deeper than
that. Let's break it down and talk
about what he's really up to. SO1HE weaponizes Ultraman to
stage that whole Boravian invasion and he creates chaos
(30:20):
and erodes the public's trust inSuperman.
And that chaos opens the door for the government to hand
Superman over to him under the guise of protecting humanity.
And Luther was supplying them with all of the tools that they
needed for this invasion. And in return he negotiates for
(30:41):
a control of half the territory.The land is rich in oil and
resources and he had a weird plan to build his own nation
fueled by profits, fit in power,basically.
I guess Lex wanted to become a king.
And then we also have to talk about Lex's fear of Superman
(31:03):
too. Like he feared Superman's
unchecked string. He thought Superman had no
accountability and no allegiancefor any government and thought
that's what made Superman dangerous.
So he spun this narrative that Superman is a threat and that he
is the only one who can neutralize this threat.
I mean, it's obviously propaganda, but it works.
(31:25):
And I think Lex sees himself notas a villain but as a savior,
like a protector of humanity, assomeone that believes that if
the world just trusts him enough, he'll secure their
future, even if he has to lie, kill or destabilize half the
globe to do it. Do you think Lex had any moral
(31:46):
ground and what did you think about his character overall in
this film? I'll go with that last point
first. I thought he was a deeply
insecure man child. He was the embodiment of the
manosphere. He was someone who is nothing
more than a shell who thinks himself a fully developed person
because he's intelligent. Now, granted, the manosphere
(32:08):
isn't particularly intelligent, but he's like, if you know,
manosphere became intelligent, if they had, you know, three
brain cells to rub together. He kind of embodies, I think, a
lot of the techno billionaire perspectives of the current,
we'll say, class of people, those who think that they know
better and they can control us. They don't believe in concepts
of democracy or freedom. They want a feudal society in
(32:30):
which they are in control. So I think he embodies a lot of
those perspectives and it's all fueled by his genuine deep
insecurity. And he cannot accept that
Superman is anything other than an alien being that is separate
and apart from humanity. When I think the conclusion of
the film is that he is ultimately human and in some
(32:52):
ways more human than Lex Luthor is because he has embodied
these, you know, down to earth and grounded perspectives.
You know, he has ultimate power on a physical level, but his
ideals, his perspective, his character is very human.
How did this new take on Superman work for you?
And I'm going to go first. For me, I'm giving it a strong
(33:15):
nine out of 10. I think what really worked is
how James Gunn didn't just retell the Superman story he
recontextualized there. I know the political angle
roughed some feathers, but to meit made total sense.
Superman has always been a metaphor about duality, power
and restraint, alien and human, savior and threat.
(33:37):
This version of the story leans harder into the immigrant
metaphor than I think we've everseen for Superman.
And I think that really goes back to the creators of Superman
and when Superman was created inthe 1930s.
So I give it a nine out of 10. What would you give it?
I'm somewhere between 8 1/2 and 9.
(33:59):
The only thing that really took away from it for me was the fact
that some of the villains were alittle under baked.
You know, Lex Luthor is a character is, you know,
interesting. And, and I mean, I dislike him
because he is a frustrating and evil person who frankly reminds
me of a lot of frustrating and evil people in our real world.
But I do think Ultraman and the engineer are just a little under
(34:23):
baked as characters, as you kindof point out.
And so I think that's the only thing that really took away from
it for me. I love the deeply emotional
relationship between Clark and his family.
I really liked how the movie ended with Superman back at the
fortress healing and watching those childhood videos.
It was such a human moment, especially after all the chaos.
(34:44):
And then also Supergirl showing up just drunk picking up Crypto
and he starts just dragging her around like a rag doll.
I just thought that was like a fun little moment.
And now we know why Crypto was so unhinged this whole time.
Thanks so much for listening to things.
I'll take it from here. The podcast where we breakdown
film, TV, books and everything in between.
(35:07):
Huge shout out to Daniel for coming on and diving into this
one with me. Make sure to subscribe so you
don't miss our next episode. I will be covering the Fantastic
Four reboot next. Follow me on TikTok and
Instagram. Take it from Here Pod for more
updates, hot takes and episode drops.
Catch you next time.
Hey everyone, welcome back to Things I'll take from here.
Today we're breaking down the new Superman film, which is
James Gunn's reimagining of the Man of Steel that's kicking off
the new DC Universe. There's drama, there's politics,
there's clones, and yes, there is a super dog.
And joining me is someone very special, my husband Daniel.
I've been trying to get him on the pod for a while and glad he
(00:21):
could join me in this episode. So let's walk through the plot
and talk about what hit, what miss, and what we'd rate the
film. This film opens with a quick
recap of Clark's origin. Krypton is destroyed, his
parents sent him to Earth, and he's raised by the Kent's in
Kansas. By the time we meet him, he's
(00:42):
already been Superman for about 3 years working at the Daily
Planet with Lois and Jimmy. Honestly, I like this trend of
skipping the full origin story. At this point, we know these
characters just give us a compelling story.
Did you like that they skipped the whole origin story and just
gave us the world where Supermanis already established?
(01:03):
Yes, I found, you know, over thecourse of the last maybe 60-70
years, I think the public has kind of figured out who Superman
is roughly. I think they did a really great
job of establishing in, you know, maybe what 5-6 lines of
text who Superman is, where he'sbeen, and which version of the
character that you're looking at.
(01:23):
From there, you now get to see what kind of small variations
they're going to put on the original character.
I don't want to get too far intospoilers just yet, but you know
the the elements of the character that are maybe going
to deviate from established loreor you know where they're going
to follow along traditional paths.
I'm glad you bought up spoilers because yeah, if you haven't
seen this, you need to watch that and then come back because
(01:45):
this is loaded with spoilers. But to jump on that note, even
if you haven't seen it right, I feel like through cultural
osmosis, we know who Superman is.
Not to dig out the creators of Superman, but if you asked a
third grader to create a superhero, it probably would be
Superman. Like, we get it.
I think we'll have a fundamentaldisagreement on, I guess what
you're going with, the basicnessof Superman I'm putting little
(02:07):
quotation marks around. That Oh my God.
OK. Look, I I understand that that
his powers might not be the mostoriginal, but his powers are not
the most interesting part of hisstories.
Superman is about his moral character, and I think this
movie does a great job of divingright into the heart of that
(02:30):
subject. It's not about him as a physical
being beating up villains. It's about who he is.
I think you are right that Superman can be layered like
that, but also he's a dude with blazer eyes.
Very cool laser eyes. I'm gonna go with very cool
laser eyes. So very early on in the film, I
(02:54):
think Gun hits us with a gut punch.
Superman, he's literally the most powerful being on Earth,
gets defeated right out of the gate by the Hammer of Boravia,
which we find out he's not just a mysterious soldier, he's
Ultraman, who's a clone of Superman that Lex Luthor created
(03:14):
and controls using drones. I actually applaud James Gunn
for making that choice. Opening the film with Superman
defeated sets the tone immediately.
This isn't a power fantasy, it'sa world where actions have
weight. And the whole opening scene
being shot in real snow in Norway adds this gritty, tactile
(03:36):
realism that makes everything feel more grounded.
And it's not all blue screens and lens flare.
This Superman bleeds. If I can also add, I think
something that they carry throughout the entire film is
established in that early minute, basically right where
they don't focus on the physicality of Superman.
(03:57):
It's about his character. You don't watch him get his butt
kicked by the hammer. You see the aftermath and the
emotional result of him getting his butt kicked.
I agree with you that we don't. We don't really see that fight
happen, we just see the fallout from that fight.
And I think the entire film is about the fallout of Superman's
(04:19):
actions, reactions, and character.
Immediately at the start of the film, that's where they pick up.
It also humanizes him. He's an immigrant who's come
from a different alien planet, but at the end of the day, he
thinks of himself as human. And while yes, he has strength
beyond any of us could ever achieve, he's still capable of
(04:40):
bleeding. He is still human.
And you know, I think where things get even messier is 3
weeks before the main events of the movie Superman stops Boravia
AUS Ally from invading Jahanpour.
Jahanpour. Oh Jahanpour, sorry y'all don't
come for me. He he stops them from invading
(05:03):
Jar Jar. Poor fuck.
Jar Han poor. Just take that audio and put it
over every time you want to say it.
I'm keeping this in. I'm keeping this in.
I need to be held accountable for my lack of wokeness.
Well, it's it's a made-up country.
(05:24):
You can't. Hopefully you can't be canceled
for mispronouncing a made-up fictional place.
Yeah, but regardless, they are aneighboring country to Boravia,
and Superman intervened in this country's dealings.
I think that immediately starts to blur the lines between
heroism and global politics. Superman isn't just saving
(05:48):
people, he's actively interfering with military action
on a geopolitical scale. And Lex Luthor jumps right in on
that. He warns the US government that
if Superman ever acts against national interests again, he has
a plan to eliminate him. And it's a major turning point
in how Superman is viewed not just as a hero, but as a
(06:10):
potential political liability. And then he starts describing
his secret weapon, which is likea team of soldiers.
And not just any team, but hyperlethal operatives specifically
engineered and trained to kill Superman.
He calls them dangerous and powerful, the kind of force you
(06:32):
don't unleash lightly. And then, in this chilling
moment, Lex gives a subtle nod and one of those same soldiers
he described as basically scary steps forward and turns the
light on for his presentation. That moment said everything
these soldiers are built to takedown, frankly, A literal God,
(06:54):
and he reduces 1 to flipping a switch like a glorified intern.
I think that moment was really significant because it shows
he's the one who is the most powerful person in the room,
right? Like he's the one who's in
control. And I think that's what James
Gunn put that moment in there for.
I think in addition to that, I think it goes to Lex Luthor's
(07:16):
character that he has quite literally dehumanized metahumans
in this version of the DC Universe.
And also, mind you, that character, if I'm remembering
correctly, that was the character who is the clone of
Superman. So in another sense, he is
ordering basically Superman around as his, well, for lack of
(07:37):
a better word, as his bitch. So I think there's there's a
couple of layers going on there.Yeah.
He's dehumanizing metahumans as a rule.
He's dehumanizing Superman and he's controlling Superman, and I
think it's a big ego trip for his character.
I actually really appreciate that James Gunn leaned into this
geopolitical angle. I feel like he was channeling
the tensions of our present. There are echoes of Ukraine and
(08:01):
Russia and also what's happeningin Gaza.
This film doesn't name names butthe commentary is definitely
there. It reminded me so much of Cold
War proxy conflicts. I'm curious what your thoughts
as someone who's a history buff is on this whole Cold War vibe I
think James Gunn was going for. Did that land for you?
(08:23):
I think that really did land with me now, whether or not it
was originally intended with thewith the comic book creators, I
think Superman has taken on as embodiment of America as a
global political military force.In a person, he is a force of
doing the most good or evil. And I think what is ultimately
(08:46):
great, at least in my mind, about the character of Superman
is that early on he was filled with this kind of embodiment of
honest American values, the mostpure, idealized version of it.
Perhaps because there's definitely a lot to say about
how, you know, America has perhaps changed over the last 50
(09:07):
or 60 years, but let's just go with the the idealized kind of
Rockwell America. And I think that's what Superman
has come to embody that he is this person who fights
inequality, you know, and that Ithink was actually very much
baked into the original character.
There are early Superman comics of him, you know, literally
Superman, you know, fights the KKK is one of his early comics
(09:30):
is Superman punches Hitler. Captain America also did that.
But, you know, like, Superman helped fight in World War 2,
helped, you know, defeat Nazism and fascism across the world and
helped to any American values throughout the world in the kind
of fictional DC universe, perhaps in a way that America
may not have fully embodied throughout its history,
(09:50):
including the Cold War. We'll put that aside and
probably pick it up again when we talk about Jar Hampor.
Jar Hampor. That's what I'm going with.
If we're mispronouncing it, sorry to the fictional people of
Jar HAMP or. Don't cancel us, please.
But Speaking of geopolitical tension, we have to talk about
the interview scene between Loisand Clark.
(10:12):
And I love this little Easter egg.
The recorder Lois uses has the Lord Tech logo on it.
That's the same company funding the Justice Gang or whatever
they're calling themselves, which subtly shows how embedded
corporate power is in this world.
Now, that interview feels casualon the surface.
It's in Lois''s apartment. It's not a press conference or a
(10:34):
newsroom, but the the emotional and political tension underneath
is definitely there. She presses Clark about what
happened in Boravia and Dragonpore, and she's not
attacking him. She's doing her job, which is
holding someone accountable for stepping into a war zone.
(10:56):
But you can see Clark strugglingto hold both identities in that
moment. He's trying to respond as both
Clark Kent and Superman at once,and we start to see that mass
slip. I think what really struck me,
though, is that Clark genuinely believes he did the right thing.
His actions are still decided bythat broken message his parents
(11:20):
left him, and I think he really wanted to embody that message,
right? He really clung to the idea that
he was sent to Earth to protect it and be a force for good and
to help. And that's what's so compelling.
I think one of the big themes ofthis movie is that heroism is a
(11:40):
choice, not something you're born into.
But at this particular point in the story, this Superman, still,
he's heroism as destiny, as a purpose.
And even as the world begins to question him, he clings to that
belief, not because he's arrogant, but because it's all
he's ever known. So after that intense interview
(12:03):
with Lois and Clark and I guess Superman, I think Superman feels
already like he's under a microscope.
And then that's when Lex Luthor makes his big move.
He unleashes that massive Kaiju on Metropolis as a diversion.
And this is when we get introduced, obviously, to the
Justice Gang, which is Hawk Girl, Green Lantern and Mr.
(12:26):
Terrific. As they're handling the chaos of
the Kaiju, Luther sneaks into the Fortress of Solitude and he
steals and restores Superman's parents message and then takes
crypto like evil. That was the most evil part of
the movie. I thought we were going to get a
John Wick moment like. But here's the twist.
(12:48):
Luther broadcast the full message to the world.
And the second-half of that audio.
Clark has never heard it before,and it turns out his parents
didn't just want him to protect Earth, they wanted him to
conquer it and rebuild Krypton and take as many wives as he
(13:10):
needed. It completely redefines
everything he thought his purpose was.
And that hit me really hard because I think he always
believed he was there to inspire, to do good.
And suddenly the mission that shaped his entire identity has
this dark imperialist undercurrent.
(13:32):
So I'm curious, what was your reaction to hearing the parents
full message? I was mad that that was the
message they ultimately, you know, went with not because I
didn't think it was a good storymove or a good, you know, kind
of story beat. I was just, I was mad because I
I wanted them to be good people and I wanted them to, to live up
(13:53):
to that idealism and they didn't.
And that's probably how Supermanfelt.
From my, you know, recollection of how he reacted in the film, I
think that's what they were going for, is, is that he wanted
his biological parents to live up to the ideals that he was
living, and they didn't. And this gets into that, you
know, that pivotal second scene of the duality of Superman when
(14:15):
he's sitting down with his father on the porch, you know,
eaten porridge and looking at a sunrise or a sunset, I don't
recall which. And just, you know, talking
about what it means to be your own man.
I think everything that you weresaying is right, and I think
that's what makes this so devastating.
And also, this was personal. Like Luther made this attack
(14:36):
personal. He wasn't just trying to beat
Superman, he wanted to unravel him.
This wasn't about brute force. It was about identity, his
history, his legacy, even cryptolike gone.
Every emotional nerve was targeted.
Did that come through for you? Because for me, it felt like Lex
was trying to hollow him out, not just defeat him, but
(14:59):
dismantle everything he believedhe was.
I don't think a character like Lex Luthor as a entirely
self-centered narcissistic asshole would accept anything
other than Superman not just being physically beaten because
that's possible in this universe.
It's it's clear that that Superman could be defeated and
(15:19):
potentially killed, and perhaps,maybe not easily, but at least
it's within reason for Lex Luthor's abilities.
He wants Superman to be wiped out as a character, as a person.
He wants to prove that he is ultimately better.
And Lex Luthor would accept nothing less than Superman's
(15:40):
entire character being disgraced, dismantled, destroyed
and gone. I think he kind of uses that to
flip the public immediately. The public flipped on Superman.
People go from celebrating Superman to fearing him.
What followed that broadcast wasa lot of anti Superman
propaganda. And we learned later that for
(16:02):
some reason Lex Luthor has monkeys that are bots that are
flooding feeds with anti Superman propaganda, which we
know what you were trying to do there, James Scott.
Absolutely. I see you and save this night
reverse. Stop saying save the Snyder
verse. Save the Snyder verse.
Moving on, I think it's really interesting how he was able to
(16:24):
weaponize essentially bots to change the public's opinion on
Superman. What really gets me is even
after Superman sees how quickly the public turned on him, how
quickly the government turned onhim, he still for some reason
believes in the system and also in doing the right thing.
(16:44):
So he obviously ultimately surrenders, like, literally
walks himself into custody. And I think it's because he
still wants to do the right thing.
And also he wants to say crypto.Do you think Gunn was making a
bigger point there about how institutions will always
prioritize control over truth? Maybe because that moment really
(17:05):
stuck with me. What do you think James Gunn was
trying to stay there with that plot point?
Yeah. Well.
So 1, I think, you know, the fact that the public turned on
Superman quickly. I understand that.
You know, if I were looking at aultimately powerful being and
thought he was, he was there to help me and then all of the
sudden learned, you know, beyonda shadow of a doubt that he was
(17:26):
a threat to me this whole time, a secret threat.
I would join his harem. I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
I'm sorry. Sorry.
We'll have to. We'll have.
To work on that later. We'll we'll unpack that in
couples therapy. I think that the public shifting
made sense and I can understand why Superman, you know, as a
more empathetic character, mightsay, let me see the most good in
(17:48):
people. I think Superman understands to
a fundamental level he, well, frankly, because he is almost
invincible. He can handle people having fear
and people perhaps reacting withtheir fear on a way that a
regular person might not be ableto.
It's funny you said Invincible because I feel like at this
point in the the film I couldn'thelp but to think about the show
(18:09):
Invincible. James Gunn was sitting in his
living room watching Invincible or reading the comic one day and
you just went, oh, that's a great idea.
Let me let me just write that one down.
Can't you describe to the listeners the connection between
Invincible and the plot point ofthe message Superman parents
left for him? Sure.
So effectively, I think Invincible is a inverse
(18:34):
character of Superman from a meta textual perspective.
Is that, you know, maybe not Invincible the younger
character, but his father. I always forget his name.
Let's just call him Big Daddy Invincible.
Right. Well anyway, the ambassador of
the Viltrumite Empire is effectively you know, if Krypton
didn't get destroyed and they serve as an imperial power
(18:55):
across the universe that you know, uses their Superman like
strength to subjugate and colonize planets across the
Invincible universe. You know, and the main character
of Invincible rejects that you notion and rejects his father in
the same way that Superman is rejecting his father.
We'll get to that, but just to get back to where we are in the
(19:17):
plot. So Superman has clearly turned
himself into custody and we see Lex throw him into a pocket
dimension prison. And inside we see Crypto,
Metamorpho. And then, one of the darkest
moments in the whole movie, Luther forces Metamorpho to make
Kryptonite by threatening his infant sign.
(19:41):
And then with no hesitation, he kills an innocent man, a man who
had one brief interaction with Superman earlier in the film.
Did that moment turn the tone for you?
Were you expecting things to getthis dark in a Superman film and
this political, frankly? Yeah, I kind of was.
(20:01):
I think that the political atmosphere in America has turned
into such a kind of cesspool. And I think James Gunn is is
very much hype are aware of thatperspective.
I mean that we're looking at political leaders who are who
are looking to inflict pain on people because of some kind of
deep insecurity. And I think that Lex Luthor is
(20:22):
directly modeled off of many of the, let's say, wealthy
billionaires who are using theirpower and influence, social
media influence and otherwise toinflict pain on others because
they're deeply insecure, weak men.
There's a couple of people, frankly, that I think he's kind
of modeling him after. I think what really hit for me
was who stood by Superman in that moment, The justice saying
(20:46):
at first they didn't want to touch anything with this, right.
I think Superman's reputation was tanked and they just they
didn't want to touch it with a 10 foot pole.
But Lois Lane and Mr. Terrific says, no, he's still worth
saving. And thank God for Mr. Terrific,
who honestly becomes the moral core of this whole story.
And also, quick sidebar, if you didn't recognize the actor,
(21:10):
that's Eddie. That's Eddie.
Guffey Gee. Cancel her.
Cancel her now. I'm so bad at names, y'all.
I'm so bad at names. But if you don't remember him.
Immediate cancellation. The monkeys are there for you.
My God, the save. The Snyder Verse.
Leave the Snyder verse where it is.
(21:30):
But anyway, for those who don't remember him, he played Darwin
in X Men's First Class. He was the mutant whose whole
power was adapting to survive, yet for some strange reason they
still killed him. In an interview with The
Hollywood Reporter, Eddie said he had a problem with the fact
that his character was the only black character in the film.
(21:51):
Aside from Zoe Kravis, obviously, to die halfway
through the film. And Marvel said they would bring
him back and then they just did it.
I honestly feel that was like a slap in the face to me.
I mean, his whole thing was thathe couldn't die and I'll still
killed him. And I think seeing Eddie return
back into the superhero world asMr. Terrific, not just as a side
(22:17):
character, but a leader with real purpose and depth felt
powerful to me. And like, he finally got the
role that he was owed. And I'm really curious how you
felt about his character throughout the film, because for
me, he honestly stole almost every scene he was in.
That fight sequence with Lois inthe bubble was top tier, and he
(22:38):
was calm and completely commanding without ever doing
too much. Like, I think Mr. Terrific
really lived up to his name. The action scene that he was in
kicked ass. Yeah, it had that James Gunn
flair, and I think that's what James Gunn does really well, is
like these fight scenes with like some badass music.
He has a couple of moves. That's one of his moves, and I
(23:00):
love that move every time it shows up.
I think they did it what, coupletimes in Creature Commandos,
yeah. Guardians.
Yeah, Scooby-doo. My favorite scene in Creature
Commandos with the the Nazi killing robot.
Just everything about it. He was a really great character
in this film, and I'm so glad that him and Lois were able to
(23:21):
help Superman escape that pocketdimension.
And I think when Superman escaped, Lex totally unravels
and he powers up the reactor andnow we're staring down the
barrel of a black hole ripping through Metropolis.
Meanwhile, the Justice Gang finally gets involved.
(23:44):
They arrive just in time to fendoff the second Boravian
invasion. And here's the kicker, right,
Hop Girl just straight up murders the Boravian dictator
and declares I'm not Superman and then drops him to his death.
And that moment was cold and powerful.
(24:06):
And Gun is leaning into what makes DC unique.
Heroes in DC are flawed. They take real risk and aren't
afraid to redefine what quote UNquote good looks like.
How did you feel about the GreenLantern character and also Hawk
Girl in this movie? And if you didn't know, Green
(24:29):
Lantern is actually getting his own show with HBO and it's
apparently going to be a detective show.
So I'm curious how you feel about his character.
Would you be excited to see him in this show?
And how you felt about Hot Girl when she made that decision to
eat that man from the sky. That bowl cut is a crime against
humanity, but it was hilarious, more so than any of the
(24:52):
potential war crimes he committed with his giant middle
fingers. Would you be excited to see this
character in a kind of It seems like the show is going to be
some kind of detective series. It's apparently draws
inspiration from the show True Detective, if you're familiar
with that show at all. Well, I am, or rather have been
a fan of Nathan Fillion from back with Firefly.
(25:14):
You know in what, 2005? So I'm always excited to see
more Nathan Fillion in anything,bowl cut or not.
Bowl cut and all. Yeah, bowl cut and all.
I don't even want them to lose it.
You know, at first I was kind ofdisturbed when I saw the promo
pictures with him wearing that bowl cut.
And I was like, what are they doing?
(25:34):
Do we have an answer? No, I don't know.
We're not. I think it's.
You know, like the giant middle finger.
I think he just does not care. I'm not I'm not sure if I'm
convinced that a a true crime kind of story is the best place
to show a Green Lantern story. He'll.
Also be taking another Green Lantern from what I read briefly
(25:55):
under his wing and they're goingto be solving crimes together.
His characters kind of arrogant and I think that could play
great in a buddy cop story, you know, and I think generally I'm
willing to give James Gunn the benefit of the doubt when it
comes to, you know, pulling odd story elements and sticking them
into, you know, superhero stories.
I think he as a, you know, as a writer, fundamentally
(26:17):
understands character. So I'm more than willing to give
him the benefit of the doubt, and I'm more than willing to
watch. Yeah, I'm interested too.
I'm secretly hoping that the team that made Penguin will
somehow be involved with this, but I doubt it.
But let's get back to where we are in the plot.
So we see the Justice Gang or whatever they call themselves
(26:40):
teaming up with Metamorpho to help stop this invasion.
And that's kind of like the B plot.
Jumping back to the A plot, we get the final fight scenes of
the film and Superman is barely holding his own against Ultraman
and the Engineer. And honestly, can we talk about
the engineer for a minute? One of my critiques for the film
(27:00):
is how underdeveloped her character felt.
She says she altered her body, gave up her humanity for Lex.
But I don't know, I didn't fullybuy it.
Like I feel like Gun didn't really flush out her character
enough for me. Like her motivations.
I didn't understand what the emotional core was for her in
(27:21):
driving some of her choices and decision making.
It felt like we were supposed tojust accept it because it
sounded cool, but for me that part didn't land.
What about you? Did that work for you, or did it
feel a little thin to you too? When you point it out, I think I
can recognize that. But I also think in a, in a film
that has what, maybe 10 to 15 major characters in play, you
(27:46):
know, you can't win them all when it comes to, you know, deep
story progression. So, you know, I look at that and
I say, yeah, they definitely didn't put the effort into
developing her as a character. And if I they killed her off I
think as well. So I think she survived, maybe.
So I think in the fight scenes, right, I think overall Superman
(28:06):
was able to defeat them. I think the engineer, she like
passed out, but she was fine. And then we see him also defeat
Ultraman and the what we see with him defeat Ultraman is
really Ultraman getting sucked up into a black hole, which like
we didn't see him die. So low key he could still be
(28:27):
alive. I'm sure he could potentially
come back in a future movie, TV show or something.
I think when you don't see the character flat out die, it's
because they have an interest indoing something more with the
character if given the opportunity.
I think character is doing a lotof heavy lifting in that
sentence there. The character of Ultraman was
(28:49):
really a blank slate for Lex Luthor's insecurities, frankly.
You know he's literally a pile of muscles that listens to Lex
Luthor's commands. I'm so glad you bought that up
because my next point that I wasgoing to talk about is how Lex
Luthor controls Ultraman. It seriously felt like we were
watching him play a video game. He was like barking out commands
(29:11):
and then Ultraman would immediately respond.
It was like very clinical and jarring.
And I think Lex didn't see him as a person at all, like you
said, just he saw him as a tool,honestly, like a joystick with
fists. And I think that leads us into
the final battle between Lex andSuperman.
(29:31):
And it's not just physical, right?
It's also psychological. But this time, Superman's
grounded. He's not fighting to fulfill
some destiny of a Kryptonian directive.
He's fighting for his truth. But before we move on, I want to
take a moment to actually talk about Lex Luthor's motives for a
(29:54):
second. Unlike someone dimensional
villains, Lex Luthor isn't just in it for power, though that's
definitely part of it. His plan runs way deeper than
that. Let's break it down and talk
about what he's really up to. SO1HE weaponizes Ultraman to
stage that whole Boravian invasion and he creates chaos
(30:20):
and erodes the public's trust inSuperman.
And that chaos opens the door for the government to hand
Superman over to him under the guise of protecting humanity.
And Luther was supplying them with all of the tools that they
needed for this invasion. And in return he negotiates for
(30:41):
a control of half the territory.The land is rich in oil and
resources and he had a weird plan to build his own nation
fueled by profits, fit in power,basically.
I guess Lex wanted to become a king.
And then we also have to talk about Lex's fear of Superman
(31:03):
too. Like he feared Superman's
unchecked string. He thought Superman had no
accountability and no allegiancefor any government and thought
that's what made Superman dangerous.
So he spun this narrative that Superman is a threat and that he
is the only one who can neutralize this threat.
I mean, it's obviously propaganda, but it works.
(31:25):
And I think Lex sees himself notas a villain but as a savior,
like a protector of humanity, assomeone that believes that if
the world just trusts him enough, he'll secure their
future, even if he has to lie, kill or destabilize half the
globe to do it. Do you think Lex had any moral
(31:46):
ground and what did you think about his character overall in
this film? I'll go with that last point
first. I thought he was a deeply
insecure man child. He was the embodiment of the
manosphere. He was someone who is nothing
more than a shell who thinks himself a fully developed person
because he's intelligent. Now, granted, the manosphere
(32:08):
isn't particularly intelligent, but he's like, if you know,
manosphere became intelligent, if they had, you know, three
brain cells to rub together. He kind of embodies, I think, a
lot of the techno billionaire perspectives of the current,
we'll say, class of people, those who think that they know
better and they can control us. They don't believe in concepts
of democracy or freedom. They want a feudal society in
(32:30):
which they are in control. So I think he embodies a lot of
those perspectives and it's all fueled by his genuine deep
insecurity. And he cannot accept that
Superman is anything other than an alien being that is separate
and apart from humanity. When I think the conclusion of
the film is that he is ultimately human and in some
(32:52):
ways more human than Lex Luthor is because he has embodied
these, you know, down to earth and grounded perspectives.
You know, he has ultimate power on a physical level, but his
ideals, his perspective, his character is very human.
How did this new take on Superman work for you?
And I'm going to go first. For me, I'm giving it a strong
(33:15):
nine out of 10. I think what really worked is
how James Gunn didn't just retell the Superman story he
recontextualized there. I know the political angle
roughed some feathers, but to meit made total sense.
Superman has always been a metaphor about duality, power
and restraint, alien and human, savior and threat.
(33:37):
This version of the story leans harder into the immigrant
metaphor than I think we've everseen for Superman.
And I think that really goes back to the creators of Superman
and when Superman was created inthe 1930s.
So I give it a nine out of 10. What would you give it?
I'm somewhere between 8 1/2 and 9.
(33:59):
The only thing that really took away from it for me was the fact
that some of the villains were alittle under baked.
You know, Lex Luthor is a character is, you know,
interesting. And, and I mean, I dislike him
because he is a frustrating and evil person who frankly reminds
me of a lot of frustrating and evil people in our real world.
But I do think Ultraman and the engineer are just a little under
(34:23):
baked as characters, as you kindof point out.
And so I think that's the only thing that really took away from
it for me. I love the deeply emotional
relationship between Clark and his family.
I really liked how the movie ended with Superman back at the
fortress healing and watching those childhood videos.
It was such a human moment, especially after all the chaos.
(34:44):
And then also Supergirl showing up just drunk picking up Crypto
and he starts just dragging her around like a rag doll.
I just thought that was like a fun little moment.
And now we know why Crypto was so unhinged this whole time.
Thanks so much for listening to things.
I'll take it from here. The podcast where we breakdown
film, TV, books and everything in between.
(35:07):
Huge shout out to Daniel for coming on and diving into this
one with me. Make sure to subscribe so you
don't miss our next episode. I will be covering the Fantastic
Four reboot next. Follow me on TikTok and
Instagram. Take it from Here Pod for more
updates, hot takes and episode drops.
Catch you next time.
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