January 19, 2025 • 54 mins
Ever wonder what it takes to keep student-athletes at their best, both on and off the field? Come and hang out with some of the best people we get to interact with at West Ottawa. Athletic Trainers Chris Schoenrock and Grace Mierendorf (Chris & Grace), the devoted athletic trainers at West Ottawa High School, whose stories might just shift your perspective on sports and rehabilitation. They share how their personal journeys through sports injuries led them to dedicate their lives to the well-being of young athletes. Chris and Grace reveal the pulse of game day intensity and the critical role they play, turning potential chaos into calm with their expertise and unwavering composure.
Step into the bustling world of game days, where the spotlight isn't on the scoreboard but on the athletes' every move. Chris and Grace provide a rare glimpse into their intricate routines, detailing how they manage the unpredictable nature of their work, balancing professionalism with light hearted interactions. They recount their personal experiences with sports injuries and how those moments of vulnerability inspired them to become champions of athlete safety and health. It's a world where ice bags and golf carts become tools of the trade, and a calm demeanor can make all the difference.
The heart of our conversation lies within the training room, a space transformed by Grace and Chris into a haven of support and mentorship. Through their guidance and open communication, they cultivate a sense of community that extends beyond physical care to embrace the emotional and academic pressures faced by student-athletes. Their impact is profound, not only on the athletes they care for but also on future trainers like Lilly and Mariah, who they work with on the daily. As we wrap things up, we recognize and appreciate the unique bond Chris and Grace have built with their students, ensuring that the spirit of teamwork and dedication thrives at West Ottawa High School.
Podcasts now dropping at 5pm every Sunday evening for that late weekend chill, or listen Monday AM during that morning commute or workout. Please like, follow, subscribe, or leave a review. Even share with someone who might like to listen. Thanks for taking the time to get to know each other a little bit better. The people who make West Ottawa Athletics what it is. Go WO!
Special thanks to Laura Veldhof Photography.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everybody, welcome back to another edition
of the 29.1 podcast.
I'm your host, Rodney Velinga,and I am here with Panthers
Athletic Director, bill Kennedy,the ever steady Bill Kennedy.
Today we sit down with somevery familiar game day faces at
West Ottawa High School.
If you've been to any athleticevent in the last couple of
years, you've seen them.
(00:20):
They're always present andready to bounce into action at a
moment's notice.
It could be a full out sprint,a jog or a quick jump into the
golf cart, but they are alwaysthere when needed and ready to
go, usually with gear galoreeither swung across their
shoulder as a sling bag or abelt bag fanny pack around the
waist, like Bill Kennedy had inthe early 90s.
(00:41):
I am talking about our twobeloved athletic trainers at
West Ottawa high school who doso much for and spend so much
time with our student athletes,and I'm grateful to ask who is
it?
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Chris Schoenrock and Grace Mierendorf.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Who is it?
Chris?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
and Grace.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, we know these guys.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
I talked to Bill Kennedy before and I go what are
our trainers last names, and Ididn't know.
And then I know now because I'mnot even remember him after
that.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
So yeah, thanks so much for both of you for carving
out a little bit of time.
I know that time is veryvaluable in the role of the
athletic trainer, especially ata school our size with as many
student athletes.
We're getting ready for abasketball game here at home
tonight, so there's game dayduties.
Just really appreciate you bothkind of coming in like you
(01:31):
always do, reliable, going tospend time and get it done, and
we're excited to kind of shareyour stories a little bit with
our community.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yeah, it's been really fun, you know, for myself
, just being around like scores,tables and stuff, and I get to
chit chat with you guys everynow and again.
It's been like really fun toget to know you, even just the
little portion of you that Iknow.
It's been really fun.
And you guys always bring, youknow, bring great energy,
passion, commitment and, youknow, really a real love for
what you do.
And guess what?
You guys need it for those longdays, don't you?
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Oh yes, oh yeah, that and caffeine.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Chris, you told me yesterday you said every day
ends with a question mark.
What does that mean for youguys?
Speaker 2 (02:09):
It depends on the.
You know the sporting event orevent that we're having
throughout that night.
You know, as an athletictrainer, that most people don't
know about the day starts withyou being almost the first
person there and usually endsbeing the last person to leave
the building.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
So bill thought it was him there they are, at more
events than I am.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I will saythat grace, you feel the same
way.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Huh, yeah, I mean there's days where you might get
to watch the event and there'sother days where you leave and
you're like I just triaged eightpeople in a game and I don't
know what the score was, I don'tknow what happened, and you're
just in your car driving home,just making it home.
And I mean there's days, too,where we get done with football
and I'm putting the golf cartback and you see, bill drive
(02:55):
away and I'm just walking backacross the field ready to go
home.
Sometimes, depending on the day,that walk back is slow because
you need that second ticket.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Uh recap everything, that kind of like a what just
happened?
Speaker 1 (03:09):
yeah, true, so you know, depending on what's going
on, I think there was one day Isaw either one of you at tennis
in the morning and then later onthere was a.
There was a soccer game atnight.
I remember I think it was you,chris.
I literally go.
I said you're still here.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yes, it was like it's uh, yeah, quote quote the the
life that, uh, that we chose.
It's just you know, yep, it'sall part of it, yeah of course
gotta talk to the guy that doesthe scheduling.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Dial that in a little bit better you know, usually
somebody that goes into a fieldthat you're in you've also.
You know you've played sportsright, you were athletes, you
know were sorry but you still dosome things were high school
athletes, but you know a lot oftime people don't know the
sports you played.
Let's go back maybe in time alittle bit grace.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Tell us what you did in high school, the sports you
were involved in yeah, sogrowing up I was always involved
in swimming and carried thatinto high school.
I was a all-state,all-conference swimmer all four
years bang um, which was superexciting, very proud of that.
And then I actually startedplaying soccer in high school as
a dare, um, if one of myfriends did swim.
(04:12):
I had to do soccer and I was afour-year varsity goalie, but I
was very injury prone in both ofthose.
I mean, swimming's a hardenough sport as it is and then
going and playing as a goalie,I'm diving at people's feet and
being shot at a daily.
So concussions, rolled ankles,jammed thumbs, fingers, whatever
.
I was in the athletic trainingroom all the time.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
And you went to high school.
Was it Wayland?
I believe you said right.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
I lived in Wayland but I went to North point
Christian.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
So I had a 45 minute drive every morning.
That's tough, that's a long way.
Wow, okay you're, you'recommuting.
Well, you still commute.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Now so, yeah, now your commute is less.
It's only 35, I know 10 minutesless yeah and and what about
for you?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
chris, I got into sports super early on.
Throughout like elementary,middle, uh, high school, I
played geez.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I tried to be involved yeah, this is a list,
so get started because it's alot I.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
I just I found sports is such a great community of
just like learning and beingsupported, developing
relationships.
But yeah, my, my list is prettylong.
So anytime a season wasavailable, I was, I was playing
something, so baseball was mynumber.
One played varsity baseball foryears.
I caught and played uh shortmost of the time.
(05:29):
I played varsity basketball fortwo years and JV basketball, um
.
In the beginning, outside ofhigh school sports, I played ice
hockey, roller hockey, um.
I played soccer all four years.
So it was.
It was a huge part of mydevelopment and just really
loving sports.
(05:49):
So yeah heavily involved it wasgreat.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
I love the multi-sport athlete.
We have multi-sport athletes inour athletic training room, oh
yeah, can only help us continueto encourage those kids to try
things right, of course part ofbeing around sports.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Even now, everyone's more or less a sports junkie.
If you're still hanging aroundsports these days, a lot of
times I asked you.
I talked with you both on thephone the other night and it was
really funny.
I knew this was going to be theanswer, but I asked you what
led you into this vocation, thisfield?
And I got the answer I expected.
(06:23):
Grace, when do you want to?
Maybe you want to go first?
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Yeah, like I said, I was a very injury-prone athlete,
so swimming is just so taxingon your body and I swam
basically every single event,but mostly I was that 200, 500.
And then in college I swam themile and stuff, and going from
physical therapy and then beingin the athletic training room
during soccer, I just knew Iwanted to do something to help
(06:49):
people after watching all thosepeople help me but I'm not a big
needles person so I knewnursing was not the move you're
better with little needles yeah,but also like broken bones
that's fine, blood, that's fine.
It's just having to put needlesin people.
I was like you know, if I couldhave a job without that, that'd
be great.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
And you found it.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
I found it.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Did you have a major injury or was it more just
smaller injuries that you werejust consistently getting
treatment for?
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Yeah, they were just smaller injuries here and there.
For my name being Grace, I wasa very ungraceful athlete so I
was just used to being in therefor little bumps and bruises and
little things here and there.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
And then, chris, your situation was a little bit
different.
What pushed you towardsathletic training?
Maybe tell us about the eventin I believe it was high school
that kind of got you down thispath, sure.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah, I think it was my junior year when I was
playing baseball.
I was catching mid game, goingin for a slide, I think into
maybe second base and I actuallytore my ACL.
So that was a that was a majorpoint of my athletic career that
really brought me back and mademe really appreciate the rehab
(08:03):
aspect of things.
I went to a sports medicineclinic and seen a physician
talking about surgery and, to behonest with you, when I was
there I was like this is great.
I enjoyed the aspect of helpingothers and I saw a lot of other
athletes with potentially thesame type of injury.
So that was a big part thatpushed me towards athletic
(08:26):
training to help other athletesand honestly at this point, live
through them kind of at thispoint to just like hope for
their successes and just reallyget them back to what they love.
So like I experienced thatfirsthand and it's just so nice
to really implement that intothe high school now.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Yeah, I also dealt with some injuries, but it's
really the reason why, ifsomebody asks me for a bag of
ice like, I know how to get theair out of the bag because I
watched it so many times.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
The skill.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
There wasn't really a lot of interaction with
athletic trainers at yourschools though, right, I know
for you, chris, there was prettymuch nothing.
Grace, I don't know what yourswas, but maybe, chris, you want
to talk about your experiencewith that injury Sure and what
was available at your schoolresources back then.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
To be honest with you , we didn't have a full-time
athletic trainer.
There was, I think, a motherfrom one of the athletes on the
football team that would comeand maybe just help with
band-aids.
So I never knew what anathletic trainer was actually
until I kind of got into collegeand pursued it.
So it's so nice to see thedifference now, to have that
(09:38):
medical provider on siteimmediately to help these kids
and refer them or take care ofthem the way that they need to.
So, like I, I really didn'thave that at the time.
It was kind of either me takecare of myself or or kind of
just you know, figure it out.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
So yeah, it's.
What years were you in highschool?
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I was a little while ago.
Uh, I was in high school from2006 to 2010.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Man, even between 2006 and 2010.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
Yeah, I would say so.
I got involved in high schoolathletics here in Michigan in 04
, and we had full-time athletictrainers.
But if you're not from a highlypopulated area, I would say
that it's going to be way moredifficult to find trainers.
Or a less affluent area right,Schools just could not afford to
bring somebody on staff.
(10:28):
You know, west ottawa was alittle different because we had
the legendary deb geek over backin the 1970s, come on board um
who really kind of pushed.
it pushed what we're doing hereat west ottawa initially, but
yeah it's, there are stillschools out there that don't
have a full time on staff person.
They'll basically rotatethrough resource individuals
(10:50):
that will come in and treatathletes each and every day.
That's what we had when I wasin high school.
You know we had a trainer thatwould come in twice a week.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Oh, you guys both went to school for this.
You both went to differentplaces Grace you went to Indiana
Wesleyan and Chris went toCentral Michigan.
Yes, tell us about the, becausewe're going to talk about this
a little bit later, but yousometimes take different
approaches to problems or tryingto solve things.
What was your experience atIndiana Wesleyan, just as a
(11:19):
college student?
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Yeah.
So I started, like I initiallyenrolled as an exercise science
major because I was still tornbetween, like PT or AT, and I
had a professor named AdamThompson he's still there as a
professor and an athletictrainer and he came in and spoke
to our intro to exercisescience class and he was like
this is what athletic trainingis and I was hooked.
(11:40):
The passion he had for it, theexperiences he had had were
absolutely amazing.
He's he actually traveled withthe paris olympics uh fencing
and saber team this past yearwhich was so cool to see and
like be like oh my gosh, I knowthat guy right
but, um, the professors thereand the preceptors and the
(12:01):
athletic trainers, they onlycare about you growing as an
athletic trainer and it's asmaller school so you weren't
one of a hundred, you wereliterally.
I think my cohort was aboutseven, eight kids, so you got to
work so closely with yourcohort and then, knowing them,
they cared about youindividually.
They made sure you got to learnthe skills that they knew you
(12:24):
were struggling with becausethey were also your teachers.
So they would get my test backand be like, oh, you were
struggling with the hip and knee.
Guess what's going to happentoday when you're at basketball
practice if a kid walks in witha hip or a knee.
That's all you.
We're going to learn.
We're going to grow and go fromthere, yeah how about yourself?
Speaker 2 (12:39):
chris, uh, to be honest with you, I actually went
to Central Michigan to be anaccountant, which was just so.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
Very similar.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
So outside of, like I said, leaving high school and
everything, not having anathletic trainer, right.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Why would you even think of it?
Speaker 2 (12:58):
It wasn't really on my forefront, but I think it
might have been in my secondsemester there that some of the
athletic training classes wereclose and I got to meet a couple
of friends that were in theprogram and instantly I had to
make this switch.
So I was like, am I going totake on a new four-year degree?
(13:19):
Absolutely, I love this.
This is going to get me backinto the sports aspect of things
, helping kids or whateverenvironment that I decided to
work with, and it was.
It was the greatest decision Iever made.
So I'm just I'm happy that Imade that switch over and the
the program itself like there's,like grace, there's there's
(13:39):
only a cohort of about eightpeople that go through the
program at at a time, so thatbecomes like your training tight
family.
So, yeah, there it's veryclosely related and it's just
it's nice to see like-mindedindividuals that see things
exactly the same way.
So, yeah, it was, it was, itwas a great experience and I'm
(14:01):
super happy I made thattransition.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
Did the accounting classes transfer over into that
second major?
Speaker 2 (14:09):
You know, I thought about doing a minor in it, but
honestly, the athletic trainingprogram is so intense that most
may not know about that.
There was not much time for it.
So those, those accountingskills are just in my back
pocket now.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
I think you still use them with all the
administrative work you do.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yeah, it comes in handy with us having to do like
our orders and stuff, working onthe spreadsheets.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Yeah, it comes in clutch spots, but I'm super
happy to make that.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
There's a good trick that you can use in life, like
even, for example, with some ofthe administrative work.
You can say well, chris, you'rereally good at it and I'm not.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
Maybe you want to do that.
It's a good way to get out ofsomething.
Talk to us a little bit aboutkind of the first arrival here
at West Ottawa.
Both kind of came in at alittle bit different times.
Grace, you initially started asa halftime through our
agreement with Corwell Health.
You were working primarily withmiddle school, and then we had
a space open here.
Chris, you kind of came in alittle bit later.
(15:11):
I guess what were your kind offirst impressions of West Ottawa
and kind of what led you tothink, oh, that would be a
pretty cool spot to go and servein this role.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Yeah, so I initially came out to visit with Frank and
Juliana.
They were the full-time ATshere at the time I was
interviewing and they presentedthe role of the part-time being
more working with the middleschool population and I was
really passionate about workingwith that younger population
because they don't know a lotabout their bodies, so
everything is oh my gosh, it'sbroken.
(15:42):
I'm dying, and so like they justneed the education of even
what's the difference between,like soreness and pain.
So I came in and, coming from avery small high school, it was
a lot at first and it was kindof like being thrown to the
wolves at some point.
But it allowed me to grow myathletic training skills so
quickly because I had suchamazing mentors like Frank and
(16:03):
Juliana who kind of took my handand showed me the ropes.
And then getting the experienceas being that part time person
and still having 20 hours a weekwhere I could go pick up other
shifts through Corwell allowedme to get used to working other
sports, different settings andjust kind of hone those skills
even more, so that when therewas that full time position
opening up I felt reallycomfortable moving into it.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
Yeah, and then shortly thereafter maybe not
that shortly thereafter, butJuliana decides to kind of
transition in her career,opening up the spot for you,
Chris.
You were kind of coming to usfrom a different perspective,
right, Coming out of the clinicand coming into the high school
space.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yeah, so I worked at an orthopedic clinic.
It was an urgent care for twoyears and, to be honest, I
enjoyed the experience andseeing different injuries and
how the management of acutefractures or wounds or splinting
was taking place there.
However, I was losing a littlebit of my clinical physical exam
(17:06):
skills that I wanted to getback into.
I have this end goalpotentially hopefully one day to
be a physician assistant, and Ijust thought that coming back
into a or going to a large highschool setting like West Ottawa
was going to allow me to havethat day-to-day experience with
athletes and kids and parentsand, geez, the community here
(17:28):
was so accepting of a newhealthcare provider just taking
care of their kids on a daily.
So it has been so great just tosee the community buy-in and
also like the support and warmthhonestly from just seeing
parents on the sidelines justbeing happy that we're here and
(17:50):
it's been really welcoming andjust so happy to make that move
over to the secondary schoolsetting from the clinic.
So it's been great.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
I will say it was slightly stressful when Chris
first came in because it was atthe eight-week sprint of spring.
So it was after spring breakand I knew he was starting full
time and I was like, oh my gosh,please stay through the spring.
It's eight Saturdays in a row.
You're there every nightworking events.
And he got done and he was like, is, is it all like this?
(18:19):
I got just the spring, just thespring.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
I did come in during a pretty high traffic time of of
not having much time to reallyget bearings or anything that I
thought kind of the slowtransition, which was great,
because I think a huge learningaspect that I always stand by is
just going into the shark tankand it was just really great to
just get right in and startgetting to know and developing
(18:44):
relationships with athletes.
And, yeah, I got got throughthat initial spring and, uh,
rolling ever since.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
So, the spring is a different animal.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Oh, no doubt about it .
The fall is pretty high too, butyeah, let's talk about where a
lot of people in the communitysee you, which is usually on a
game day, so there's sidelines.
Usually, you know, stuff startsin the fall, so it's at
football.
Somebody gets injured on thefield and you guys are out there
.
The whole place gets quiet asyou guys do your work.
That's where we see you.
(19:16):
Do you find it stressful I mean, I was going to ask this right
away Like the possibility ofsomething serious is just around
the corner at any moment.
What's that like?
Maybe, grace, you want to gofirst?
Speaker 3 (19:27):
It's a weird calm before the storm.
It's a weird calm before thestorm, like I would say I'm, I'm
paying attention, I'm alert,I'm looking for those things,
making sure that, like kids aregetting up, watching mechanisms
of like how kids are getting hitor whatever's going on.
But I don't feel as nervous whensomething occurs you're
seasoned now, right yeah, it'sthe afterwards where, like, okay
(19:50):
, you just did whatever, handledthat emergency situation called
9-1-1, and then now you have akid walking up to you being like
, can you take my fingers?
Like I need a buddy tape, andI'm just like, did you not just
see what?
Like you just go right backinto it and that's like it's
just part of the job.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah, always ready yeah, I think my standpoint from
it is just over time you youdevelop that response to either
emergency or or being called toa situation that maybe maybe
normal individual or or someonewould not be super comfortable
with.
But we love this to the extentof things like bones or
(20:37):
traumatic injuries we find acomfortability to be, honest
with you.
You get calm during that timedon't you, yeah, yeah.
Which is super great too forboth community, parent and the
athlete themselves to just havea comfortable space, to just
know that they will be takencare of in a way that it's not
like, oh my God, what's going on, you know.
(20:59):
So it's.
It's a huge aspect for us to tokeep that comfortable mindset
to take care of, you know, theathletes the way we need to, so
we get, we get used to it.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
So there's a seasoned aspect of it.
One of the things that's reallyhelped, too right, is the MHSA
recently came out with kind ofthe edict that everyone has to
have emergency action plans andput those in place and you guys
drill those with our teams.
So I'm sure that reducesanxiety a little bit as well,
(21:29):
right, chris?
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Yes, planning is a huge aspect of what we do every
day too, so it's a lot easierduring these traumatic or
emergency situations knowingthat we have any AP in place.
We know who we need to callduring traumatic injuries, or
who's the faculty behind, who'sgoing to be taking care of
(21:52):
calling 911 or who's going to bethere with our emergency bag.
So the preparation behind whatwe do is a huge aspect that
makes us calm during thosesituations.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
And it also provides a sense of peace for the kids.
Like the times we've had toprovide emergency care.
The kids are at so much morepeace, knowing like OK, me and
the coaches just saw theathletic trainers do this at
practice and I know my coachescan do it.
I know my teammates can help ifneeded.
They know what they're doing.
(22:24):
I'm in good hands.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Correct.
Yeah, I think that's a hugeaspect of all of the like
preseason or or prep drills thatwe do with teams that if or
when this does occur, there's acomfortability of we know what
to do, we understand, and thatjust allows things to go so much
smoother.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
It's nice, briefly, when you get started.
But when I was on the phonewith you I said, hey, what's
something I don't know about youthat I can ask you and I'll be
surprised.
And you said, well, it's theway you watch a game yes, and
it's very different.
So the lay person sitting out inthe stands like, oh, they're
just sitting there waiting forthe next ankle to tape, right?
(23:05):
I mean, that's kind of theignorant approach if you will,
and I'll be that guy, but theway you guys watch games is much
different than that.
Tell us maybe, take turns aboutit or go back and forth, what's
it like to watch a game for youis much different than the
regular person.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Yeah, if you ask me who scored last or what, the
score is.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
I will have no idea.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
You'll see me at soccer sidelines where they'll
be like did you see what jerseynumber scored?
That was like nope.
I'm looking at the person thatjumped up in the air to head the
ball.
Did their ankles roll in whenthey landed?
That person got slide tackled.
Do they have any blood on theirshins?
Volleyball players.
I watched the ball hit theirhands and I watched their feet
hit the floor.
Like I am not watching the game, I'm watching any points of
(23:45):
contact.
I mean, let's talk about hockeyfor a second.
Yeah, they they get hit intothe boards, but the second they
fall.
There are literal blades in theair heading towards heads, arms
, hands, whatever.
So it's just those differentthings of we're watching those
points and making sure likeeveryone's getting up, no one's
(24:05):
limping, no one's holdinganything, there's no blood on
jerseys, things like that,rather than congrats so and so
just got a touchdown or that wasa great spike, like we're just
focused on everyone's up greatchris, do you ever find does
this?
Speaker 1 (24:21):
if you don't, you probably watch uh sports on tv a
certain way, but when you go toother events are you able to
turn that off when you watchsports, or is it always a little
bit like that?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
sometimes I I feel like when I'm watching, uh, just
like in my own time, uh say,like the NFL recently, we watch
games in such a different aspectthat we're so behind safety
that you know, like as a sportsfan, you love that big hit but,
in your mind you're like arethey doing the right thing to
take care of?
Speaker 3 (24:51):
this guy.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
So yeah, we definitely watch games and just
a different safety and takingcare of the athlete's mindset.
That like we're looking at,like biomechanics, or we're
looking at, you know, mechanismof injury, like Grace said.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
So we're looking at more of a deeper level of how
we're going to treat them.
If you know, anything occurs.
Yeah, it's similar for me.
When I go to games, I'm payingattention, like video boards and
what are they doing, what kindof music soundtrack, all of
those things, because we want touse some of that.
I'm not really paying attentionto Lamar Jackson breaking
ankles yep.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
No, you're not even concerned.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
I will say it's nice for fantasy football because I
know how long an injury shouldtake to recover.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
I know whether I need to make the switch or not.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
We definitely get texts from family and friends
where they're like so and so.
Would you think they'll be backon Sunday?
Speaker 2 (25:49):
That's a big part within my fantasy football
aspect.
You know a couple guys would belike hey man, he looks like
he's out for a week.
He'll be good, I'm like listen,we understand what happened and
you should probably sit him fora couple days, yep.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
That is so hilarious, that's good to know.
Next year.
I'm letting you know they'redoing that, oh my gosh, yeah.
Yeah, you're doing that to menow.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
I should have had Christian McCaffrey on my roster
this year.
I really could have used someinsight.
That was a lot of bad numberone picks with that one, that's
for sure.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
I always get a great kick out of not when it's
serious, but when it's not asserious when you guys roll into
action.
I always think it's really fun.
Chris, we were sitting in thegym the other day and I said it
would be really fun to kind ofshoot a video of you guys right
(26:40):
when the moment comes, okay.
And we were sitting in thebleachers and I said, Chris,
there might be a chance herewhere you're going to have to be
on the floor, but look, it'sblocked.
You can't get on and the onlyway for you to get to the middle
of the floor is to take asingle leap over that scorer's
table.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Yes, Could you clear it, I think, so we can go test
it out, knights or Dykema gottheir super slow-mo camera.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
You jump over the camera.
I think you slide in.
When you see people, you go tothat fanny pack camera.
I think you slide in.
When you see people, you go tothat fanny pack.
There's nothing there and youmake eye contact with Grace.
Grace goes in that run down tothe end, picks something out of
that fanny pack.
The only way she can get it toyou is to that long throw.
Throw it in the air.
Nice slow motion and the catchis made and everything will be
(27:31):
just fine.
That's how I see it every timeyou guys go out there.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
That soundtrack might play in my head next time
something occurs.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
I mean, that's pretty much what it is.
You know, all joking aside, Ialso actually am a very big fan
of when you guys are in themoment that's a serious one the
interactions you have with thatstudent athlete.
Can you talk about what you'redoing right when you get on the
scene and what you're trying totake care of with somebody?
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Yeah, I mean initially it's ruling out
fracture, seeing how like is itan emergency situation or not?
Can we get this person movedoff of the plane surface or do
we need to have them hang outthere a little bit longer?
Do a further evaluation.
Those are the first thingswe're doing.
We're checking avcs often.
If they're crying and screaming, it's okay because they're
(28:21):
breathing.
So as much as like much likesome people would be like oh my
gosh, they're like it's anemergency.
This is awful.
I'm like sometimes they justneed a minute to get things out,
but you're just checking onthem and letting them know that
you're there, letting them knowthat we're on their time.
Take a minute to breathe whenyou feel ready.
I'll check out your joints, seehow things are looking.
(28:41):
Okay, feels good.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Let's move you to the side and then continue the
evaluation further yeah, Ireally appreciate the fact that
you guys never rush and you know, just observing it from a
distance, I mean you're reallyengaged with fact that you guys
never rush and you know, justobserving it from a distance, I
mean you're really engaged withthat, that with that injured
player oh, yeah, definitely itlike going back to what Grace
said, the going out to theinjured player like they're.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
They're at a point where they think you know I need
to be quick, I need to get up,and we let them know like this
is a comfortable time, this isyour time, this game will
continue as soon as we're ableto kind of manage or find out
what's going on with you.
So so we give them that smalleramount of time that they need
to make sure that they're okayto continue.
(29:24):
But we do go through achecklist to make sure that you
know before they're getting upand everything.
We're making sure that by themdoing so that they're okay to
make sure that you know beforethey're getting up and
everything.
We're making sure that by themdoing so, that they're okay to
make it to the sidelines so wecan do that further evaluation
to find out exactly what's goingon with them.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Yeah, you do a great job with that well, prepping for
a game, you guys always havelots of stuff.
If you're dry, bill has a golfcart around.
Do you guys share a golf cart?
Do you each have one?
Speaker 3 (29:49):
it depends on the day .
Sometimes.
If, like, one of us is workingsoccer and the other is at like
lacrosse, we might have toborrow bills once in a while.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Oh, sure, okay, yep, okay, but you have so much to do
like?
Do you ever have a situationwhere you're not prepped because
, because you have what youusually have a bag on your
shoulder.
Do you have a fanny pack?
Sometimes I have a shoulder bag.
He took that as an insult.
He did that's a sling bag,buddy.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
No, we have so much supplies for every situation, so
maybe the general consensus isthey have just tons of tape.
That that might be.
I mean, we do have a lot of tapethere is tape but but we have
splint bags, we have vacuumsplints, we have airway um
different.
You know things to restart umthe heart.
(30:39):
We have an aed.
Yeah, we have so much suppliesthat is brought from each place
that that gets easier over time.
But if you were to take a lookat the equipment we have, you're
like that's a lot of stuff.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
Yeah, they have that long extended cart with a sweet
yellow seat for a reason, and wefill it every game day.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Multiple trips for a football night.
Oh my gosh To completion.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
So that's the public view of you yeah and now we got
a whole other category too.
This is now we're going to goto, where the kids see you whole
different thing that's going onin the background.
If you're at this high schoolevery day you see it.
Bill sees it.
You know people that walkthrough the halls see it, but a
lot of us parents don't.
I've seen it because I've hadkids in there.
But let's talk maybe about thetraining room, the medical room,
(31:26):
health care facility.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
You guys have turned that into a very comfortable,
welcoming, safe environment yeah, um, I mean, one of the first
things is like kids get to callus by our first names we're not
mr or mrs, it's not mr ma'am,like it's your grace and chris
you can call us grace and chriswhere it's a comfortable
environment, um, and kids getcomfortable quickly in it and
(31:51):
it's something we appreciatebecause it lets us know that
they feel comfortable with usand they trust us with their
care, um, but they are in therethe second that bell rings at
243, there's a line out the doorand they are ready to get
treatments, taping, rehab, getready to go to practice and
games and be on their way.
But it's nice even to have thekids that just swing by pop in
(32:12):
and they're like, oh my gosh, hi.
And we tell kids all the timewe're like you don't have to be
injured to come say hi to us,you are allowed to swing by, you
are allowed to hang out.
Yes, there are times we're busyand we may ask you to just hang
out in the hallway or come backin an hour or so, but it's.
it's such a nice feeling to knowthat they're comfortable with
us and that they trust us andthat we're just able to be those
(32:35):
people for some of them.
Some of them just need alistening ear, outside of
getting injuries treated andstuff like that, and whether
it's they want to talk aboutwhat they want to do for college
or things that happened at homeor, um, oh my gosh, I didn't
sleep anything like in the pasttwo days.
I'm exhausted.
Can I take a nap on the backtable with a hot pack?
(32:56):
I'm like go ahead, I'll letcoach know sleep.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Oh yeah, I think it's a really beneficial aspect in
the mindset of these studentathletes is we're the first or
like the only health careprovider for them that's on site
.
So not only do we see injuriesthat happen at a game like, but
(33:21):
something that happens at home.
If, like Grace said, alistening ear where we can bring
an athlete in and shut the doorand they just need to talk,
they need to decompress, theyneed to ask a question, that
allows us to feel like a rolemodel, which is nice to help
them with.
Hey, I'm struggling withclasses, I'm a multi-sport
athletes, so it's nice that wecan, with our experience already
(33:44):
going through that, be able togive some insights and just
allow that comfortability andprovide good care for them.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
So it's great and knowing that them, knowing that
we have their back.
There's outside pressures fromcoaches, parents, whatever it
may be, college coaches wherethey're like I feel like I need
to go, go, go, go go.
And I'm trying to listen to mybody and what's going on and
it's like, if you need me to bethe bad guy because this is
bothering you, I'll take one forthe team and I will let whoever
(34:14):
I need to know that you need aday off.
If you are in season duringthis sport, I will let your
other coaches know like, hey,cut them some slack.
They're dealing with thisinjury, they need some time to
recover and they just feelpressured.
So it's allowing us to advocatefor our athletes and that's one
of the biggest parts of our jobis just being an advocate for
(34:34):
them and letting them know we'reon their team, correct?
Speaker 4 (34:37):
And you guys come at kind of the job, the profession,
from a different angle thanmost of the other people that
those that are student athletesinteract with on a daily basis.
Right there we were alleducation majors and went to
school to become teachers andthat sort of thing.
What is getting and buildingthose relationships with high
(34:58):
school kids right who bring acertain energy about them?
What has that done for you kindof in your profession?
Maybe is like something youdidn't really think about even
when you went to, went into AT.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Chris is still playing baseball at 32.
He is.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
I can't stop.
Yeah, it's, it's nice to to beengaged in my own sporting
outside.
But back to what you weresaying, bill it's it's nice to
develop these trust aspectsbetween kids, that we have kids
that come in and they don't knowwhat they want for their you
know, their next step withintheir career or what they want
to go to school for.
But they're so engaged andintrigued with what we do that
(35:40):
they're always asking like can Ishadow you?
Can I, can I see what you guysdo?
I would love to do this.
You guys help so many people.
I feel like that's somethingthat I would like.
So it's really nice to just seethe response back from these
athletes too, saying, like weappreciate everything you do so
much that we want to do that too, and that's just that keeps us
(36:03):
going too.
And that's just that.
That.
Just that keeps us going.
That is literally the, thehorsepower behind what we do on
a daily, because we're we'rereaching to kids in high school
that want to do the same thing,which is nice.
It's growing the career.
But yeah, it's just it's.
It's nice to have that trustbased relationship that they're
teach me what you do.
I would love to do this for therest of my life, so it's just
(36:23):
nice.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
And working with them too.
I think specifically these West, like these West athletes, are
something else.
They're so great and I meangetting to know them, having the
relationships with them,getting to just be there for
them, is so fulfilling, becausethat's what they need.
They need someone that's thereand we're there all the time.
(36:47):
They we get calls, texts,emails, um, they come in and
visit, hang out.
We'll get messages throughoutthe day where they're like are
you guys in yet can?
I can I come see you and theenergy these kids bring and the
appreciation they have for whatthey do like makes it so much
easier coming in each and everyday, because you know that the
kids truly appreciate you andthey appreciate your help.
(37:10):
And even though it may be asituation where you're holding
them out on the sideline andthey are upset and they are
angry, the next day they come intail between their legs and
they're like hey, can I talk toyou quick?
I am so sorry, I was upset.
You were just trying to do thebest, uh, for me to keep me safe
and sometimes it feels likewe're parents to hundreds of
(37:32):
athletes where they're like haveyou seen my jersey?
I think I left my headphones inhere.
Where's my phone, do you?
Speaker 2 (37:39):
have any snacks.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
I don't think I drank enough water today.
Can I borrow a water bottle?
But?
Speaker 1 (37:49):
it's just so rewarding.
I'm sorry.
If we were to take a snapshotpicture of what's going on there
in the afternoon say it's 3.30in the afternoon what different
things would we see?
What type of treatments wouldbe done?
What might that look like?
Speaker 3 (38:00):
Every table is full.
Every table is full.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Usually even off-season based, every table is
full.
Every table is full.
Yeah, usually even off-seasonbased, every table is full.
There's a line down the hall.
We got kids doing rehab, comingback from certain injuries to
do with their sports-specificaspect of things.
We're doing initial evaluations, trying to find out what's
going on or if we think thatit's something that needs to be
referred for potentially.
You know, fracture, that wehave a good team physician, dr
(38:26):
Block, who works in Holland aswell, that we could have quick
communication with.
So we're doing all of thatreferring and kind of delegating
.
We do tape, we do a goodhandful of taping.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
The stereotypical.
Yeah, that's why it's astereotype, the things people
expect.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
I mean there's coolers in the hallway for we're
prepping for events, or thegolf cart's being loaded.
Equipment might be on tables orin doorways because we're
working getting it out the doorwhere it needs to be.
There might be kids in thehallway doing rehab.
There might be kids in thelocker rooms doing rehab.
Outside we use our space thebest we can and then every table
(39:03):
is full.
In between tables are athletesdoing stuff, rolling out,
stretching.
It becomes a triage clinic.
The second two, 43 hits.
We're trying to get kids in andout, get them what they need.
Prioritize based on okay, yougot to hop on the bus, like
let's get you in first, we'llget you taped, get on out of
here.
Okay, you walked in on crutches, you're not practicing today.
(39:25):
You can wait a minute till Iget you a clear table and then
just going from there.
And then the second, about likefour o'clock, hits.
We either go into events or weget a minute to breathe and
we're back in our office doingdocumentation stuff.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
Yeah, there's a tight window at 2.43.
And then we have, you know,basketball games will start at
four o'clock.
Now winter is maybe a littlebit easier because the at atr is
right across the hallway fromthe gym.
But when we get into thespringtime and we've got tennis
at four, baseball at four,softball at four, soccer at four
, it gets rolling, oh yeah.
(39:59):
And it's like everybody wantedtheir water at 230.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Oh, 100% and we try.
Sometimes, when we get in early, we're like, okay, let's just
run waters out now, becausethere's no way we'll be able to
get everything out with ourequipments in time.
Um, and then there's other days, too, where we're like, hey,
it's 3 30 is the last time wecan put an athlete on a table.
True, because then we got toget everyone out clean, grab our
(40:24):
stuff and get out to events.
So we'll normally write in ourdoor.
We'll be like if you are notinside the store at three thirty
, I am so sorry, but we willhave to see you tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Just very fast paced.
So we're we're trying to giveeach athlete the time and the
care and a good plan of care youknow that they need.
But yeah, we're rocking androlling and we're getting
everybody in and out as quick aspossible before we have to get
out to the event.
And then you know we're, we'reready for any situation out
there.
Speaker 3 (40:52):
So we have crushed the nonverbal communication,
while in the afterschool rushwhere we can just like give each
other a look and the otherperson will like okay, yeah,
I'll go do waters.
I'll go do this.
Hey, can you grab me this?
And like we're not even sayinga word, we're just looking at
each other and we're like yeah,gotcha, okay, I'll go jump into
that quick, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Telepathic communication at this point, huh
.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Just the luck will do it Pretty much yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
Do you get a?
You guys do some really nicethings and you had mentioned
this earlier, but you havestudent trainers that come in.
This is a cool program that'swithin West Ottawa, in West
Ottawa.
Can you talk about that alittle bit, Chris?
You want to maybe start us off?
Speaker 2 (41:30):
Sure, yeah.
So throughout the last maybeyear and a half this is un-high
school related, I'll kind oftransition over that We've been
having Grand Valley studentscome first and second semester,
coming over and spending almostevery day with us.
So they get to see what we do,the way we're treating athletes,
the individualized rehab planswe're making, and that
transitions over to high schoolathletes too that we found we
(41:53):
have two at the moment that arewith us, I would say maybe 10 to
15 hours a week.
They're there for theafterschool rush, they're there
for events, they're there forprep-school rush, they're there
for events, they're there forprep.
We're teaching themdocumentation.
So it is so great to just seethese kids coming and and
(42:13):
wanting to learn what we do andwe.
We put them as part of the teamtoo.
So, like it you do, we givethem maybe a week or so and and
anybody who another athlete thathas a question is like, hey,
they are part of the team now,so that gives them a comfortable
aspect to continue working withus and they're just building
their skills.
Speaker 4 (42:32):
So it's really great to have it's going to really
help set themselves apart fromothers who may be entering
programs, and they're coming inwith hundreds of hours of time
already spent right yeah, ourfirst student, um lily, reached
out to us last fall and shereached out.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
I was just like I just want to observe some
football, and then she wasobserving hockey and then she
was observing soccer so shereached out to you she reached
out to us and then summer hitand we're like we, we want to
teach you more.
you want to learn more, let'steach you more.
So she came a couple days inthe summer and we got her
learning taping.
We got her learning what's inour kits, what to grab in
certain situations, emergencyprotocols, and then she worked
(43:15):
all football season with us andjust really bought in.
She has an Excel sheet with allof her hours and everything
she's learned throughout, sodifferent skills.
She's learned spineboardingwith us.
She's learned different tapings, whether that would be ankle,
wrist, knee, achilles, um withall this, she could probably
pick up an accounting minorfirst couple years.
(43:37):
But it's just super cool to seebecause, like it's a difference
between having a college student, like master's degree student,
come out and you're a preceptorfor them because they are
assigned to you and they have tocome out.
It's part of their grade.
These high school students,lily and Mariah, they have
really bought in where they'relike I want to do this and I
want to learn more.
And there's always those firstcouple of weeks of like trial
(43:59):
and error where we're like youactually know what we do, is
this actually what you want todo?
You show them the good, the bad, the ugly, and then they're
like yes, this is what I want todo.
I am heavily bought in.
This is exciting, teach me more.
And they just want to watch usdo our jobs and learn.
And it's so exciting and welove teaching.
It's something we're bothreally passionate about.
(44:20):
So being able to just teach ourjobs to these kids and help
them look at colleges and lookat different programs, look at
different settings we're able tohelp them get in and observe
different settings and then showthem other opportunities as
well, moving forward to justhelp them grow their love for
(44:41):
athletic training.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
Oh yeah, love for athletic training, oh yeah, and
it's really great too that, uh,lily and Mariah both have talked
about already looking intoschools and and Lily is already
applying to an athletic trainingprogram.
It's, it's just so nice to seewhat we're doing is is really
paying off, uh, for these kidsand, like like Bill said,
they're, they're developingskills that their first semester
(45:02):
they may already have thesefundamentals within athletic
training and they're just goingto advance with them throughout
their high school or theircollege career.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
Yeah, so nice to listen to some very proud
parents.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
It feels like that some days.
We're like come on, kids, grabyour bags.
We're going out to thebasketball games.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
We got a couple hundred kids.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
One thing that really actually shows and I think Bill
kind of appreciate this as wellis when we observe you from the
outside, you guys have a reallynice relationship, like when we
see you in public space andinteracting.
It's very, very positive.
Chris, can you talk about Gracea little bit?
What makes it?
What's nice about working withher?
(45:41):
You know how do you guysbalance each other out.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Of course, yeah, so it's really nice to have both
male and female athletic trainerat the school here as well.
Some situations or smaller highschools you may only have, you
know, you know one, but you haveto treat athletes that are both
male and female.
So, depending on injury basedor, or rehab, or tape or
(46:04):
anything that you need to do,there's there's a barrier, that
within healthcare, that it is sonice to have grace for the
female population of things, andI just think that our dynamic
back and forth since you knowbeing here is is it's getting
telepathic at this point.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
Yeah, by the way, for the listening audience,
whenever one is talking, theother one is nodding with a
smile on their face and it justkeeps going back and forth Like
uh-huh.
Speaker 3 (46:28):
Yes, I agree, yep, these are things we talk about
like on a daily, like getting toknow each other and talking
about things we appreciate abouteach other.
I mean, there's this dynamic inthe office where it's almost
like yin and yang, like where Imay lack in something, he can
pick up and take care of thatand it's so nice.
(46:48):
We like there's times where Imay need to be a little more
tough love of an athlete or theyjust may need more gentle
approach to things, and hisbackground too in the clinic
allows, whenever we have torefer somebody to a urgent care,
he's able to give them a kindof layout of what's going to
(47:08):
happen when they get there, orwhy they should go to an
orthopedic urgent care versus anormal urgent care.
Or hey, we can treat thisin-house and here's why, because
you're going to go to theurgent care and this is what
they're going to do and I can dothat here and that's really
exciting.
And we both like playingdifferent sports allows us to be
able to talk lingo.
So when I'm talking like testset, about swim, he's like what
(47:30):
are you talking about?
But like, when we get to morelike baseball, hockey, stuff,
I'm just like chris, help, likewhat are they saying?
What are these terms true?
and we just adapt from there.
Cheer and wrestling is adifferent world for both of us,
so learning those terms havekind of been team effort, effort
but it's it's a nice dynamicand it's fun because, like we
(47:54):
always have times where we'relaughing and then there's times
where we're able to check inwith each other and be like hey,
do you need a minute?
You had a really rough day withthat sport yesterday.
There was a lot of injuries.
It was really busy.
Let me take something off yourhand and if you have a vacation
or I have a vacation.
We can kind of swap things backand forth, um.
But it's just really thatrelationship of like checking in
(48:15):
with each other.
We try to do that as much as wecan, even if it's just 10
minutes.
Once we're both in being likewhat do you need from me?
What can can I take off yourplate?
Hey, do you mind taking thisoff my plate?
Um and things like that.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
Yeah, it's, it's really great to you know, say,
uh, emergency situation or ortypes of things that you have
throughout your day.
It's nice to know that once youare able to complete that and
things are okay, you still haveyour own personal aspect that
you might need a second.
So it's nice to have grace, toeasily step right in and have
(48:49):
the confidence and trust thatthings will continue on exactly
if you were there as well.
So it's nice that we both havethe same mindset of taking care
of the kids here and making sureeverything's great.
So, yeah, there are times ofvery seriousness, but also we
get a good laugh in too.
So it's comfy, it's nice.
Speaker 4 (49:09):
So you both spend a lot of time here at West Ottawa.
Yes, there's a grind to it all,but you're both going through
this.
You're not alone.
You have significant others athome who really allow you to
chase this job and to chase thispassion.
Chris, we'll start with you.
Maybe talk a little bit, giveyour significant other a shout
(49:32):
out of course, bianca.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
Thank you, uh.
Yeah, it's nice to have asignificant other who
understands you know, quote,quote this life, so like the
long hours, the amount of timeI'm at the school.
But it's also nice too thatshe's been able to come and be
on the sideline of a footballgame or I've had her at a
(49:54):
baseball game and she just lovesthe environment.
And it's so nice to hearafterwards that she's so, like,
extremely proud and happy to seewhat I'm doing here that her
support was already great withit.
But the time that I may spendaway from her and I'm here, she
knows, we know what it entailsand what I'm doing.
So it's just, it's so mucheasier.
(50:15):
It's a nice dynamic to knowthat you know full support by
your significant other.
So, yeah, it's great.
Speaker 3 (50:23):
I think my biggest thing is so.
Evan is my high schoolsweetheart.
We've been together over adecade and married for two years
, so we really grew up together.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
Really yes.
Speaker 3 (50:35):
So we both played sports in high school.
We went to different highschools.
We lived far away.
He was in Lowell and I was inWayland, so it was about an hour
drive in between.
So we did the distance thingand that really helped us grow
as people.
And then when we got married,started living together and I'm
doing a job where I am goneafternoon to evening and he's a
(50:57):
blue collar worker, he's anelectrician, so he does the
early mornings to the midafternoons or sometimes all day.
So finding that time and thatbalance where he might have a
little bit later of a nightbecause he's coming to a game to
just see me spend time with me,even if it's just standing on
the sideline while I do my thing, yeah, it's date night, friday
(51:19):
night football.
But so it's so nice having thatsupport from them, because they
genuinely see that we love whatwe do and they want to be a part
of it and they want to comevisit.
And the kids are hilarious whenthey find out we have
significant others, because theyask a gazillion questions.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
They don't see you as anything other than what is
presented to them on a dailybasis.
Speaker 3 (51:42):
Right.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
Yeah Well, you guys are super busy.
Thanks for taking the time tocome in.
You are truly appreciated here.
Your positions are professional.
They're highly skilled.
It could be filled by a lot ofpeople, but we are very grateful
that they are filled by you,grace, and by you, chris.
We couldn't have better peoplein your positions.
(52:03):
And remember everybody we areWest Ottawa, we are Chris.
We couldn't have better peoplein your positions.
And remember everybody we areWest Ottawa, we are community.
We are each other.
One second, I think.
I heard something in the hallyou need a what you need a
trainer Guys.
I heard someone's calling for atrainer.
Speaker 3 (52:16):
We'll be right there.
I hear that in my sleep somedays.
Speaker 1 (52:20):
Thanks you guys, it's been a blast.
Of course Thank you Thanks somuch, appreciate it.
Hey everybody, welcome back to another edition
of the 29.1 podcast.
I'm your host, Rodney Velinga,and I am here with Panthers
Athletic Director, bill Kennedy,the ever steady Bill Kennedy.
Today we sit down with somevery familiar game day faces at
West Ottawa High School.
If you've been to any athleticevent in the last couple of
years, you've seen them.
(00:20):
They're always present andready to bounce into action at a
moment's notice.
It could be a full out sprint,a jog or a quick jump into the
golf cart, but they are alwaysthere when needed and ready to
go, usually with gear galoreeither swung across their
shoulder as a sling bag or abelt bag fanny pack around the
waist, like Bill Kennedy had inthe early 90s.
(00:41):
I am talking about our twobeloved athletic trainers at
West Ottawa high school who doso much for and spend so much
time with our student athletes,and I'm grateful to ask who is
it?
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Chris Schoenrock and Grace Mierendorf.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Who is it?
Chris?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
and Grace.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, we know these guys.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
I talked to Bill Kennedy before and I go what are
our trainers last names, and Ididn't know.
And then I know now because I'mnot even remember him after
that.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
So yeah, thanks so much for both of you for carving
out a little bit of time.
I know that time is veryvaluable in the role of the
athletic trainer, especially ata school our size with as many
student athletes.
We're getting ready for abasketball game here at home
tonight, so there's game dayduties.
Just really appreciate you bothkind of coming in like you
(01:31):
always do, reliable, going tospend time and get it done, and
we're excited to kind of shareyour stories a little bit with
our community.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yeah, it's been really fun, you know, for myself
, just being around like scores,tables and stuff, and I get to
chit chat with you guys everynow and again.
It's been like really fun toget to know you, even just the
little portion of you that Iknow.
It's been really fun.
And you guys always bring, youknow, bring great energy,
passion, commitment and, youknow, really a real love for
what you do.
And guess what?
You guys need it for those longdays, don't you?
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Oh yes, oh yeah, that and caffeine.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Chris, you told me yesterday you said every day
ends with a question mark.
What does that mean for youguys?
Speaker 2 (02:09):
It depends on the.
You know the sporting event orevent that we're having
throughout that night.
You know, as an athletictrainer, that most people don't
know about the day starts withyou being almost the first
person there and usually endsbeing the last person to leave
the building.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
So bill thought it was him there they are, at more
events than I am.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I will saythat grace, you feel the same
way.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Huh, yeah, I mean there's days where you might get
to watch the event and there'sother days where you leave and
you're like I just triaged eightpeople in a game and I don't
know what the score was, I don'tknow what happened, and you're
just in your car driving home,just making it home.
And I mean there's days, too,where we get done with football
and I'm putting the golf cartback and you see, bill drive
(02:55):
away and I'm just walking backacross the field ready to go
home.
Sometimes, depending on the day,that walk back is slow because
you need that second ticket.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Uh recap everything, that kind of like a what just
happened?
Speaker 1 (03:09):
yeah, true, so you know, depending on what's going
on, I think there was one day Isaw either one of you at tennis
in the morning and then later onthere was a.
There was a soccer game atnight.
I remember I think it was you,chris.
I literally go.
I said you're still here.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yes, it was like it's uh, yeah, quote quote the the
life that, uh, that we chose.
It's just you know, yep, it'sall part of it, yeah of course
gotta talk to the guy that doesthe scheduling.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Dial that in a little bit better you know, usually
somebody that goes into a fieldthat you're in you've also.
You know you've played sportsright, you were athletes, you
know were sorry but you still dosome things were high school
athletes, but you know a lot oftime people don't know the
sports you played.
Let's go back maybe in time alittle bit grace.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Tell us what you did in high school, the sports you
were involved in yeah, sogrowing up I was always involved
in swimming and carried thatinto high school.
I was a all-state,all-conference swimmer all four
years bang um, which was superexciting, very proud of that.
And then I actually startedplaying soccer in high school as
a dare, um, if one of myfriends did swim.
(04:12):
I had to do soccer and I was afour-year varsity goalie, but I
was very injury prone in both ofthose.
I mean, swimming's a hardenough sport as it is and then
going and playing as a goalie,I'm diving at people's feet and
being shot at a daily.
So concussions, rolled ankles,jammed thumbs, fingers, whatever
.
I was in the athletic trainingroom all the time.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
And you went to high school.
Was it Wayland?
I believe you said right.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
I lived in Wayland but I went to North point
Christian.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
So I had a 45 minute drive every morning.
That's tough, that's a long way.
Wow, okay you're, you'recommuting.
Well, you still commute.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Now so, yeah, now your commute is less.
It's only 35, I know 10 minutesless yeah and and what about
for you?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
chris, I got into sports super early on.
Throughout like elementary,middle, uh, high school, I
played geez.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I tried to be involved yeah, this is a list,
so get started because it's alot I.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
I just I found sports is such a great community of
just like learning and beingsupported, developing
relationships.
But yeah, my, my list is prettylong.
So anytime a season wasavailable, I was, I was playing
something, so baseball was mynumber.
One played varsity baseball foryears.
I caught and played uh shortmost of the time.
(05:29):
I played varsity basketball fortwo years and JV basketball, um
.
In the beginning, outside ofhigh school sports, I played ice
hockey, roller hockey, um.
I played soccer all four years.
So it was.
It was a huge part of mydevelopment and just really
loving sports.
(05:49):
So yeah heavily involved it wasgreat.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
I love the multi-sport athlete.
We have multi-sport athletes inour athletic training room, oh
yeah, can only help us continueto encourage those kids to try
things right, of course part ofbeing around sports.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Even now, everyone's more or less a sports junkie.
If you're still hanging aroundsports these days, a lot of
times I asked you.
I talked with you both on thephone the other night and it was
really funny.
I knew this was going to be theanswer, but I asked you what
led you into this vocation, thisfield?
And I got the answer I expected.
(06:23):
Grace, when do you want to?
Maybe you want to go first?
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Yeah, like I said, I was a very injury-prone athlete,
so swimming is just so taxingon your body and I swam
basically every single event,but mostly I was that 200, 500.
And then in college I swam themile and stuff, and going from
physical therapy and then beingin the athletic training room
during soccer, I just knew Iwanted to do something to help
(06:49):
people after watching all thosepeople help me but I'm not a big
needles person so I knewnursing was not the move you're
better with little needles yeah,but also like broken bones
that's fine, blood, that's fine.
It's just having to put needlesin people.
I was like you know, if I couldhave a job without that, that'd
be great.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
And you found it.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
I found it.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Did you have a major injury or was it more just
smaller injuries that you werejust consistently getting
treatment for?
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Yeah, they were just smaller injuries here and there.
For my name being Grace, I wasa very ungraceful athlete so I
was just used to being in therefor little bumps and bruises and
little things here and there.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
And then, chris, your situation was a little bit
different.
What pushed you towardsathletic training?
Maybe tell us about the eventin I believe it was high school
that kind of got you down thispath, sure.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah, I think it was my junior year when I was
playing baseball.
I was catching mid game, goingin for a slide, I think into
maybe second base and I actuallytore my ACL.
So that was a that was a majorpoint of my athletic career that
really brought me back and mademe really appreciate the rehab
(08:03):
aspect of things.
I went to a sports medicineclinic and seen a physician
talking about surgery and, to behonest with you, when I was
there I was like this is great.
I enjoyed the aspect of helpingothers and I saw a lot of other
athletes with potentially thesame type of injury.
So that was a big part thatpushed me towards athletic
(08:26):
training to help other athletesand honestly at this point, live
through them kind of at thispoint to just like hope for
their successes and just reallyget them back to what they love.
So like I experienced thatfirsthand and it's just so nice
to really implement that intothe high school now.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Yeah, I also dealt with some injuries, but it's
really the reason why, ifsomebody asks me for a bag of
ice like, I know how to get theair out of the bag because I
watched it so many times.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
The skill.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
There wasn't really a lot of interaction with
athletic trainers at yourschools though, right, I know
for you, chris, there was prettymuch nothing.
Grace, I don't know what yourswas, but maybe, chris, you want
to talk about your experiencewith that injury Sure and what
was available at your schoolresources back then.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
To be honest with you , we didn't have a full-time
athletic trainer.
There was, I think, a motherfrom one of the athletes on the
football team that would comeand maybe just help with
band-aids.
So I never knew what anathletic trainer was actually
until I kind of got into collegeand pursued it.
So it's so nice to see thedifference now, to have that
(09:38):
medical provider on siteimmediately to help these kids
and refer them or take care ofthem the way that they need to.
So, like I, I really didn'thave that at the time.
It was kind of either me takecare of myself or or kind of
just you know, figure it out.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
So yeah, it's.
What years were you in highschool?
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I was a little while ago.
Uh, I was in high school from2006 to 2010.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Man, even between 2006 and 2010.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
Yeah, I would say so.
I got involved in high schoolathletics here in Michigan in 04
, and we had full-time athletictrainers.
But if you're not from a highlypopulated area, I would say
that it's going to be way moredifficult to find trainers.
Or a less affluent area right,Schools just could not afford to
bring somebody on staff.
(10:28):
You know, west ottawa was alittle different because we had
the legendary deb geek over backin the 1970s, come on board um
who really kind of pushed.
it pushed what we're doing hereat west ottawa initially, but
yeah it's, there are stillschools out there that don't
have a full time on staff person.
They'll basically rotatethrough resource individuals
(10:50):
that will come in and treatathletes each and every day.
That's what we had when I wasin high school.
You know we had a trainer thatwould come in twice a week.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Oh, you guys both went to school for this.
You both went to differentplaces Grace you went to Indiana
Wesleyan and Chris went toCentral Michigan.
Yes, tell us about the, becausewe're going to talk about this
a little bit later, but yousometimes take different
approaches to problems or tryingto solve things.
What was your experience atIndiana Wesleyan, just as a
(11:19):
college student?
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Yeah.
So I started, like I initiallyenrolled as an exercise science
major because I was still tornbetween, like PT or AT, and I
had a professor named AdamThompson he's still there as a
professor and an athletictrainer and he came in and spoke
to our intro to exercisescience class and he was like
this is what athletic trainingis and I was hooked.
(11:40):
The passion he had for it, theexperiences he had had were
absolutely amazing.
He's he actually traveled withthe paris olympics uh fencing
and saber team this past yearwhich was so cool to see and
like be like oh my gosh, I knowthat guy right
but, um, the professors thereand the preceptors and the
(12:01):
athletic trainers, they onlycare about you growing as an
athletic trainer and it's asmaller school so you weren't
one of a hundred, you wereliterally.
I think my cohort was aboutseven, eight kids, so you got to
work so closely with yourcohort and then, knowing them,
they cared about youindividually.
They made sure you got to learnthe skills that they knew you
(12:24):
were struggling with becausethey were also your teachers.
So they would get my test backand be like, oh, you were
struggling with the hip and knee.
Guess what's going to happentoday when you're at basketball
practice if a kid walks in witha hip or a knee.
That's all you.
We're going to learn.
We're going to grow and go fromthere, yeah how about yourself?
Speaker 2 (12:39):
chris, uh, to be honest with you, I actually went
to Central Michigan to be anaccountant, which was just so.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
Very similar.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
So outside of, like I said, leaving high school and
everything, not having anathletic trainer, right.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Why would you even think of it?
Speaker 2 (12:58):
It wasn't really on my forefront, but I think it
might have been in my secondsemester there that some of the
athletic training classes wereclose and I got to meet a couple
of friends that were in theprogram and instantly I had to
make this switch.
So I was like, am I going totake on a new four-year degree?
(13:19):
Absolutely, I love this.
This is going to get me backinto the sports aspect of things
, helping kids or whateverenvironment that I decided to
work with, and it was.
It was the greatest decision Iever made.
So I'm just I'm happy that Imade that switch over and the
the program itself like there's,like grace, there's there's
(13:39):
only a cohort of about eightpeople that go through the
program at at a time, so thatbecomes like your training tight
family.
So, yeah, there it's veryclosely related and it's just
it's nice to see like-mindedindividuals that see things
exactly the same way.
So, yeah, it was, it was, itwas a great experience and I'm
(14:01):
super happy I made thattransition.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
Did the accounting classes transfer over into that
second major?
Speaker 2 (14:09):
You know, I thought about doing a minor in it, but
honestly, the athletic trainingprogram is so intense that most
may not know about that.
There was not much time for it.
So those, those accountingskills are just in my back
pocket now.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
I think you still use them with all the
administrative work you do.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yeah, it comes in handy with us having to do like
our orders and stuff, working onthe spreadsheets.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Yeah, it comes in clutch spots, but I'm super
happy to make that.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
There's a good trick that you can use in life, like
even, for example, with some ofthe administrative work.
You can say well, chris, you'rereally good at it and I'm not.
Speaker 4 (14:50):
Maybe you want to do that.
It's a good way to get out ofsomething.
Talk to us a little bit aboutkind of the first arrival here
at West Ottawa.
Both kind of came in at alittle bit different times.
Grace, you initially started asa halftime through our
agreement with Corwell Health.
You were working primarily withmiddle school, and then we had
a space open here.
Chris, you kind of came in alittle bit later.
(15:11):
I guess what were your kind offirst impressions of West Ottawa
and kind of what led you tothink, oh, that would be a
pretty cool spot to go and servein this role.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Yeah, so I initially came out to visit with Frank and
Juliana.
They were the full-time ATshere at the time I was
interviewing and they presentedthe role of the part-time being
more working with the middleschool population and I was
really passionate about workingwith that younger population
because they don't know a lotabout their bodies, so
everything is oh my gosh, it'sbroken.
(15:42):
I'm dying, and so like they justneed the education of even
what's the difference between,like soreness and pain.
So I came in and, coming from avery small high school, it was
a lot at first and it was kindof like being thrown to the
wolves at some point.
But it allowed me to grow myathletic training skills so
quickly because I had suchamazing mentors like Frank and
(16:03):
Juliana who kind of took my handand showed me the ropes.
And then getting the experienceas being that part time person
and still having 20 hours a weekwhere I could go pick up other
shifts through Corwell allowedme to get used to working other
sports, different settings andjust kind of hone those skills
even more, so that when therewas that full time position
opening up I felt reallycomfortable moving into it.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
Yeah, and then shortly thereafter maybe not
that shortly thereafter, butJuliana decides to kind of
transition in her career,opening up the spot for you,
Chris.
You were kind of coming to usfrom a different perspective,
right, Coming out of the clinicand coming into the high school
space.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yeah, so I worked at an orthopedic clinic.
It was an urgent care for twoyears and, to be honest, I
enjoyed the experience andseeing different injuries and
how the management of acutefractures or wounds or splinting
was taking place there.
However, I was losing a littlebit of my clinical physical exam
(17:06):
skills that I wanted to getback into.
I have this end goalpotentially hopefully one day to
be a physician assistant, and Ijust thought that coming back
into a or going to a large highschool setting like West Ottawa
was going to allow me to havethat day-to-day experience with
athletes and kids and parentsand, geez, the community here
(17:28):
was so accepting of a newhealthcare provider just taking
care of their kids on a daily.
So it has been so great just tosee the community buy-in and
also like the support and warmthhonestly from just seeing
parents on the sidelines justbeing happy that we're here and
(17:50):
it's been really welcoming andjust so happy to make that move
over to the secondary schoolsetting from the clinic.
So it's been great.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
I will say it was slightly stressful when Chris
first came in because it was atthe eight-week sprint of spring.
So it was after spring breakand I knew he was starting full
time and I was like, oh my gosh,please stay through the spring.
It's eight Saturdays in a row.
You're there every nightworking events.
And he got done and he was like, is, is it all like this?
(18:19):
I got just the spring, just thespring.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
I did come in during a pretty high traffic time of of
not having much time to reallyget bearings or anything that I
thought kind of the slowtransition, which was great,
because I think a huge learningaspect that I always stand by is
just going into the shark tankand it was just really great to
just get right in and startgetting to know and developing
(18:44):
relationships with athletes.
And, yeah, I got got throughthat initial spring and, uh,
rolling ever since.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
So, the spring is a different animal.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Oh, no doubt about it .
The fall is pretty high too, butyeah, let's talk about where a
lot of people in the communitysee you, which is usually on a
game day, so there's sidelines.
Usually, you know, stuff startsin the fall, so it's at
football.
Somebody gets injured on thefield and you guys are out there
.
The whole place gets quiet asyou guys do your work.
That's where we see you.
(19:16):
Do you find it stressful I mean, I was going to ask this right
away Like the possibility ofsomething serious is just around
the corner at any moment.
What's that like?
Maybe, grace, you want to gofirst?
Speaker 3 (19:27):
It's a weird calm before the storm.
It's a weird calm before thestorm, like I would say I'm, I'm
paying attention, I'm alert,I'm looking for those things,
making sure that, like kids aregetting up, watching mechanisms
of like how kids are getting hitor whatever's going on.
But I don't feel as nervous whensomething occurs you're
seasoned now, right yeah, it'sthe afterwards where, like, okay
(19:50):
, you just did whatever, handledthat emergency situation called
9-1-1, and then now you have akid walking up to you being like
, can you take my fingers?
Like I need a buddy tape, andI'm just like, did you not just
see what?
Like you just go right backinto it and that's like it's
just part of the job.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah, always ready yeah, I think my standpoint from
it is just over time you youdevelop that response to either
emergency or or being called toa situation that maybe maybe
normal individual or or someonewould not be super comfortable
with.
But we love this to the extentof things like bones or
(20:37):
traumatic injuries we find acomfortability to be, honest
with you.
You get calm during that timedon't you, yeah, yeah.
Which is super great too forboth community, parent and the
athlete themselves to just havea comfortable space, to just
know that they will be takencare of in a way that it's not
like, oh my God, what's going on, you know.
(20:59):
So it's.
It's a huge aspect for us to tokeep that comfortable mindset
to take care of, you know, theathletes the way we need to, so
we get, we get used to it.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
So there's a seasoned aspect of it.
One of the things that's reallyhelped, too right, is the MHSA
recently came out with kind ofthe edict that everyone has to
have emergency action plans andput those in place and you guys
drill those with our teams.
So I'm sure that reducesanxiety a little bit as well,
(21:29):
right, chris?
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Yes, planning is a huge aspect of what we do every
day too, so it's a lot easierduring these traumatic or
emergency situations knowingthat we have any AP in place.
We know who we need to callduring traumatic injuries, or
who's the faculty behind, who'sgoing to be taking care of
(21:52):
calling 911 or who's going to bethere with our emergency bag.
So the preparation behind whatwe do is a huge aspect that
makes us calm during thosesituations.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
And it also provides a sense of peace for the kids.
Like the times we've had toprovide emergency care.
The kids are at so much morepeace, knowing like OK, me and
the coaches just saw theathletic trainers do this at
practice and I know my coachescan do it.
I know my teammates can help ifneeded.
They know what they're doing.
(22:24):
I'm in good hands.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Correct.
Yeah, I think that's a hugeaspect of all of the like
preseason or or prep drills thatwe do with teams that if or
when this does occur, there's acomfortability of we know what
to do, we understand, and thatjust allows things to go so much
smoother.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
It's nice, briefly, when you get started.
But when I was on the phonewith you I said, hey, what's
something I don't know about youthat I can ask you and I'll be
surprised.
And you said, well, it's theway you watch a game yes, and
it's very different.
So the lay person sitting out inthe stands like, oh, they're
just sitting there waiting forthe next ankle to tape, right?
(23:05):
I mean, that's kind of theignorant approach if you will,
and I'll be that guy, but theway you guys watch games is much
different than that.
Tell us maybe, take turns aboutit or go back and forth, what's
it like to watch a game for youis much different than the
regular person.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Yeah, if you ask me who scored last or what, the
score is.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
I will have no idea.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
You'll see me at soccer sidelines where they'll
be like did you see what jerseynumber scored?
That was like nope.
I'm looking at the person thatjumped up in the air to head the
ball.
Did their ankles roll in whenthey landed?
That person got slide tackled.
Do they have any blood on theirshins?
Volleyball players.
I watched the ball hit theirhands and I watched their feet
hit the floor.
Like I am not watching the game, I'm watching any points of
(23:45):
contact.
I mean, let's talk about hockeyfor a second.
Yeah, they they get hit intothe boards, but the second they
fall.
There are literal blades in theair heading towards heads, arms
, hands, whatever.
So it's just those differentthings of we're watching those
points and making sure likeeveryone's getting up, no one's
(24:05):
limping, no one's holdinganything, there's no blood on
jerseys, things like that,rather than congrats so and so
just got a touchdown or that wasa great spike, like we're just
focused on everyone's up greatchris, do you ever find does
this?
Speaker 1 (24:21):
if you don't, you probably watch uh sports on tv a
certain way, but when you go toother events are you able to
turn that off when you watchsports, or is it always a little
bit like that?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
sometimes I I feel like when I'm watching, uh, just
like in my own time, uh say,like the NFL recently, we watch
games in such a different aspectthat we're so behind safety
that you know, like as a sportsfan, you love that big hit but,
in your mind you're like arethey doing the right thing to
take care of?
Speaker 3 (24:51):
this guy.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
So yeah, we definitely watch games and just
a different safety and takingcare of the athlete's mindset.
That like we're looking at,like biomechanics, or we're
looking at, you know, mechanismof injury, like Grace said.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
So we're looking at more of a deeper level of how
we're going to treat them.
If you know, anything occurs.
Yeah, it's similar for me.
When I go to games, I'm payingattention, like video boards and
what are they doing, what kindof music soundtrack, all of
those things, because we want touse some of that.
I'm not really paying attentionto Lamar Jackson breaking
ankles yep.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
No, you're not even concerned.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
I will say it's nice for fantasy football because I
know how long an injury shouldtake to recover.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
I know whether I need to make the switch or not.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
We definitely get texts from family and friends
where they're like so and so.
Would you think they'll be backon Sunday?
Speaker 2 (25:49):
That's a big part within my fantasy football
aspect.
You know a couple guys would belike hey man, he looks like
he's out for a week.
He'll be good, I'm like listen,we understand what happened and
you should probably sit him fora couple days, yep.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
That is so hilarious, that's good to know.
Next year.
I'm letting you know they'redoing that, oh my gosh, yeah.
Yeah, you're doing that to menow.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
I should have had Christian McCaffrey on my roster
this year.
I really could have used someinsight.
That was a lot of bad numberone picks with that one, that's
for sure.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
I always get a great kick out of not when it's
serious, but when it's not asserious when you guys roll into
action.
I always think it's really fun.
Chris, we were sitting in thegym the other day and I said it
would be really fun to kind ofshoot a video of you guys right
(26:40):
when the moment comes, okay.
And we were sitting in thebleachers and I said, Chris,
there might be a chance herewhere you're going to have to be
on the floor, but look, it'sblocked.
You can't get on and the onlyway for you to get to the middle
of the floor is to take asingle leap over that scorer's
table.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Yes, Could you clear it, I think, so we can go test
it out, knights or Dykema gottheir super slow-mo camera.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
You jump over the camera.
I think you slide in.
When you see people, you go tothat fanny pack camera.
I think you slide in.
When you see people, you go tothat fanny pack.
There's nothing there and youmake eye contact with Grace.
Grace goes in that run down tothe end, picks something out of
that fanny pack.
The only way she can get it toyou is to that long throw.
Throw it in the air.
Nice slow motion and the catchis made and everything will be
(27:31):
just fine.
That's how I see it every timeyou guys go out there.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
That soundtrack might play in my head next time
something occurs.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
I mean, that's pretty much what it is.
You know, all joking aside, Ialso actually am a very big fan
of when you guys are in themoment that's a serious one the
interactions you have with thatstudent athlete.
Can you talk about what you'redoing right when you get on the
scene and what you're trying totake care of with somebody?
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Yeah, I mean initially it's ruling out
fracture, seeing how like is itan emergency situation or not?
Can we get this person movedoff of the plane surface or do
we need to have them hang outthere a little bit longer?
Do a further evaluation.
Those are the first thingswe're doing.
We're checking avcs often.
If they're crying and screaming, it's okay because they're
(28:21):
breathing.
So as much as like much likesome people would be like oh my
gosh, they're like it's anemergency.
This is awful.
I'm like sometimes they justneed a minute to get things out,
but you're just checking onthem and letting them know that
you're there, letting them knowthat we're on their time.
Take a minute to breathe whenyou feel ready.
I'll check out your joints, seehow things are looking.
(28:41):
Okay, feels good.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Let's move you to the side and then continue the
evaluation further yeah, Ireally appreciate the fact that
you guys never rush and you know, just observing it from a
distance, I mean you're reallyengaged with fact that you guys
never rush and you know, justobserving it from a distance, I
mean you're really engaged withthat, that with that injured
player oh, yeah, definitely itlike going back to what Grace
said, the going out to theinjured player like they're.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
They're at a point where they think you know I need
to be quick, I need to get up,and we let them know like this
is a comfortable time, this isyour time, this game will
continue as soon as we're ableto kind of manage or find out
what's going on with you.
So so we give them that smalleramount of time that they need
to make sure that they're okayto continue.
(29:24):
But we do go through achecklist to make sure that you
know before they're getting upand everything.
We're making sure that by themdoing so that they're okay to
make sure that you know beforethey're getting up and
everything.
We're making sure that by themdoing so, that they're okay to
make it to the sidelines so wecan do that further evaluation
to find out exactly what's goingon with them.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Yeah, you do a great job with that well, prepping for
a game, you guys always havelots of stuff.
If you're dry, bill has a golfcart around.
Do you guys share a golf cart?
Do you each have one?
Speaker 3 (29:49):
it depends on the day .
Sometimes.
If, like, one of us is workingsoccer and the other is at like
lacrosse, we might have toborrow bills once in a while.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Oh, sure, okay, yep, okay, but you have so much to do
like?
Do you ever have a situationwhere you're not prepped because
, because you have what youusually have a bag on your
shoulder.
Do you have a fanny pack?
Sometimes I have a shoulder bag.
He took that as an insult.
He did that's a sling bag,buddy.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
No, we have so much supplies for every situation, so
maybe the general consensus isthey have just tons of tape.
That that might be.
I mean, we do have a lot of tapethere is tape but but we have
splint bags, we have vacuumsplints, we have airway um
different.
You know things to restart umthe heart.
(30:39):
We have an aed.
Yeah, we have so much suppliesthat is brought from each place
that that gets easier over time.
But if you were to take a lookat the equipment we have, you're
like that's a lot of stuff.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
Yeah, they have that long extended cart with a sweet
yellow seat for a reason, and wefill it every game day.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Multiple trips for a football night.
Oh my gosh To completion.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
So that's the public view of you yeah and now we got
a whole other category too.
This is now we're going to goto, where the kids see you whole
different thing that's going onin the background.
If you're at this high schoolevery day you see it.
Bill sees it.
You know people that walkthrough the halls see it, but a
lot of us parents don't.
I've seen it because I've hadkids in there.
But let's talk maybe about thetraining room, the medical room,
(31:26):
health care facility.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
You guys have turned that into a very comfortable,
welcoming, safe environment yeah, um, I mean, one of the first
things is like kids get to callus by our first names we're not
mr or mrs, it's not mr ma'am,like it's your grace and chris
you can call us grace and chriswhere it's a comfortable
environment, um, and kids getcomfortable quickly in it and
(31:51):
it's something we appreciatebecause it lets us know that
they feel comfortable with usand they trust us with their
care, um, but they are in therethe second that bell rings at
243, there's a line out the doorand they are ready to get
treatments, taping, rehab, getready to go to practice and
games and be on their way.
But it's nice even to have thekids that just swing by pop in
(32:12):
and they're like, oh my gosh, hi.
And we tell kids all the timewe're like you don't have to be
injured to come say hi to us,you are allowed to swing by, you
are allowed to hang out.
Yes, there are times we're busyand we may ask you to just hang
out in the hallway or come backin an hour or so, but it's.
it's such a nice feeling to knowthat they're comfortable with
us and that they trust us andthat we're just able to be those
(32:35):
people for some of them.
Some of them just need alistening ear, outside of
getting injuries treated andstuff like that, and whether
it's they want to talk aboutwhat they want to do for college
or things that happened at homeor, um, oh my gosh, I didn't
sleep anything like in the pasttwo days.
I'm exhausted.
Can I take a nap on the backtable with a hot pack?
(32:56):
I'm like go ahead, I'll letcoach know sleep.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Oh yeah, I think it's a really beneficial aspect in
the mindset of these studentathletes is we're the first or
like the only health careprovider for them that's on site
.
So not only do we see injuriesthat happen at a game like, but
(33:21):
something that happens at home.
If, like Grace said, alistening ear where we can bring
an athlete in and shut the doorand they just need to talk,
they need to decompress, theyneed to ask a question, that
allows us to feel like a rolemodel, which is nice to help
them with.
Hey, I'm struggling withclasses, I'm a multi-sport
athletes, so it's nice that wecan, with our experience already
(33:44):
going through that, be able togive some insights and just
allow that comfortability andprovide good care for them.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
So it's great and knowing that them, knowing that
we have their back.
There's outside pressures fromcoaches, parents, whatever it
may be, college coaches wherethey're like I feel like I need
to go, go, go, go go.
And I'm trying to listen to mybody and what's going on and
it's like, if you need me to bethe bad guy because this is
bothering you, I'll take one forthe team and I will let whoever
(34:14):
I need to know that you need aday off.
If you are in season duringthis sport, I will let your
other coaches know like, hey,cut them some slack.
They're dealing with thisinjury, they need some time to
recover and they just feelpressured.
So it's allowing us to advocatefor our athletes and that's one
of the biggest parts of our jobis just being an advocate for
(34:34):
them and letting them know we'reon their team, correct?
Speaker 4 (34:37):
And you guys come at kind of the job, the profession,
from a different angle thanmost of the other people that
those that are student athletesinteract with on a daily basis.
Right there we were alleducation majors and went to
school to become teachers andthat sort of thing.
What is getting and buildingthose relationships with high
(34:58):
school kids right who bring acertain energy about them?
What has that done for you kindof in your profession?
Maybe is like something youdidn't really think about even
when you went to, went into AT.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Chris is still playing baseball at 32.
He is.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
I can't stop.
Yeah, it's, it's nice to to beengaged in my own sporting
outside.
But back to what you weresaying, bill it's it's nice to
develop these trust aspectsbetween kids, that we have kids
that come in and they don't knowwhat they want for their you
know, their next step withintheir career or what they want
to go to school for.
But they're so engaged andintrigued with what we do that
(35:40):
they're always asking like can Ishadow you?
Can I, can I see what you guysdo?
I would love to do this.
You guys help so many people.
I feel like that's somethingthat I would like.
So it's really nice to just seethe response back from these
athletes too, saying, like weappreciate everything you do so
much that we want to do that too, and that's just that keeps us
(36:03):
going too.
And that's just that.
That.
Just that keeps us going.
That is literally the, thehorsepower behind what we do on
a daily, because we're we'rereaching to kids in high school
that want to do the same thing,which is nice.
It's growing the career.
But yeah, it's just it's.
It's nice to have that trustbased relationship that they're
teach me what you do.
I would love to do this for therest of my life, so it's just
(36:23):
nice.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
And working with them too.
I think specifically these West, like these West athletes, are
something else.
They're so great and I meangetting to know them, having the
relationships with them,getting to just be there for
them, is so fulfilling, becausethat's what they need.
They need someone that's thereand we're there all the time.
(36:47):
They we get calls, texts,emails, um, they come in and
visit, hang out.
We'll get messages throughoutthe day where they're like are
you guys in yet can?
I can I come see you and theenergy these kids bring and the
appreciation they have for whatthey do like makes it so much
easier coming in each and everyday, because you know that the
kids truly appreciate you andthey appreciate your help.
(37:10):
And even though it may be asituation where you're holding
them out on the sideline andthey are upset and they are
angry, the next day they come intail between their legs and
they're like hey, can I talk toyou quick?
I am so sorry, I was upset.
You were just trying to do thebest, uh, for me to keep me safe
and sometimes it feels likewe're parents to hundreds of
(37:32):
athletes where they're like haveyou seen my jersey?
I think I left my headphones inhere.
Where's my phone, do you?
Speaker 2 (37:39):
have any snacks.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
I don't think I drank enough water today.
Can I borrow a water bottle?
But?
Speaker 1 (37:49):
it's just so rewarding.
I'm sorry.
If we were to take a snapshotpicture of what's going on there
in the afternoon say it's 3.30in the afternoon what different
things would we see?
What type of treatments wouldbe done?
What might that look like?
Speaker 3 (38:00):
Every table is full.
Every table is full.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Usually even off-season based, every table is
full.
Every table is full.
Yeah, usually even off-seasonbased, every table is full.
There's a line down the hall.
We got kids doing rehab, comingback from certain injuries to
do with their sports-specificaspect of things.
We're doing initial evaluations, trying to find out what's
going on or if we think thatit's something that needs to be
referred for potentially.
You know, fracture, that wehave a good team physician, dr
(38:26):
Block, who works in Holland aswell, that we could have quick
communication with.
So we're doing all of thatreferring and kind of delegating
.
We do tape, we do a goodhandful of taping.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
The stereotypical.
Yeah, that's why it's astereotype, the things people
expect.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
I mean there's coolers in the hallway for we're
prepping for events, or thegolf cart's being loaded.
Equipment might be on tables orin doorways because we're
working getting it out the doorwhere it needs to be.
There might be kids in thehallway doing rehab.
There might be kids in thelocker rooms doing rehab.
Outside we use our space thebest we can and then every table
(39:03):
is full.
In between tables are athletesdoing stuff, rolling out,
stretching.
It becomes a triage clinic.
The second two, 43 hits.
We're trying to get kids in andout, get them what they need.
Prioritize based on okay, yougot to hop on the bus, like
let's get you in first, we'llget you taped, get on out of
here.
Okay, you walked in on crutches, you're not practicing today.
(39:25):
You can wait a minute till Iget you a clear table and then
just going from there.
And then the second, about likefour o'clock, hits.
We either go into events or weget a minute to breathe and
we're back in our office doingdocumentation stuff.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
Yeah, there's a tight window at 2.43.
And then we have, you know,basketball games will start at
four o'clock.
Now winter is maybe a littlebit easier because the at atr is
right across the hallway fromthe gym.
But when we get into thespringtime and we've got tennis
at four, baseball at four,softball at four, soccer at four
, it gets rolling, oh yeah.
(39:59):
And it's like everybody wantedtheir water at 230.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Oh, 100% and we try.
Sometimes, when we get in early, we're like, okay, let's just
run waters out now, becausethere's no way we'll be able to
get everything out with ourequipments in time.
Um, and then there's other days, too, where we're like, hey,
it's 3 30 is the last time wecan put an athlete on a table.
True, because then we got toget everyone out clean, grab our
(40:24):
stuff and get out to events.
So we'll normally write in ourdoor.
We'll be like if you are notinside the store at three thirty
, I am so sorry, but we willhave to see you tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Just very fast paced.
So we're we're trying to giveeach athlete the time and the
care and a good plan of care youknow that they need.
But yeah, we're rocking androlling and we're getting
everybody in and out as quick aspossible before we have to get
out to the event.
And then you know we're, we'reready for any situation out
there.
Speaker 3 (40:52):
So we have crushed the nonverbal communication,
while in the afterschool rushwhere we can just like give each
other a look and the otherperson will like okay, yeah,
I'll go do waters.
I'll go do this.
Hey, can you grab me this?
And like we're not even sayinga word, we're just looking at
each other and we're like yeah,gotcha, okay, I'll go jump into
that quick, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Telepathic communication at this point, huh
.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Just the luck will do it Pretty much yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
Do you get a?
You guys do some really nicethings and you had mentioned
this earlier, but you havestudent trainers that come in.
This is a cool program that'swithin West Ottawa, in West
Ottawa.
Can you talk about that alittle bit, Chris?
You want to maybe start us off?
Speaker 2 (41:30):
Sure, yeah.
So throughout the last maybeyear and a half this is un-high
school related, I'll kind oftransition over that We've been
having Grand Valley studentscome first and second semester,
coming over and spending almostevery day with us.
So they get to see what we do,the way we're treating athletes,
the individualized rehab planswe're making, and that
transitions over to high schoolathletes too that we found we
(41:53):
have two at the moment that arewith us, I would say maybe 10 to
15 hours a week.
They're there for theafterschool rush, they're there
for events, they're there forprep-school rush, they're there
for events, they're there forprep.
We're teaching themdocumentation.
So it is so great to just seethese kids coming and and
(42:13):
wanting to learn what we do andwe.
We put them as part of the teamtoo.
So, like it you do, we givethem maybe a week or so and and
anybody who another athlete thathas a question is like, hey,
they are part of the team now,so that gives them a comfortable
aspect to continue working withus and they're just building
their skills.
Speaker 4 (42:32):
So it's really great to have it's going to really
help set themselves apart fromothers who may be entering
programs, and they're coming inwith hundreds of hours of time
already spent right yeah, ourfirst student, um lily, reached
out to us last fall and shereached out.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
I was just like I just want to observe some
football, and then she wasobserving hockey and then she
was observing soccer so shereached out to you she reached
out to us and then summer hitand we're like we, we want to
teach you more.
you want to learn more, let'steach you more.
So she came a couple days inthe summer and we got her
learning taping.
We got her learning what's inour kits, what to grab in
certain situations, emergencyprotocols, and then she worked
(43:15):
all football season with us andjust really bought in.
She has an Excel sheet with allof her hours and everything
she's learned throughout, sodifferent skills.
She's learned spineboardingwith us.
She's learned different tapings, whether that would be ankle,
wrist, knee, achilles, um withall this, she could probably
pick up an accounting minorfirst couple years.
(43:37):
But it's just super cool to seebecause, like it's a difference
between having a college student, like master's degree student,
come out and you're a preceptorfor them because they are
assigned to you and they have tocome out.
It's part of their grade.
These high school students,lily and Mariah, they have
really bought in where they'relike I want to do this and I
want to learn more.
And there's always those firstcouple of weeks of like trial
(43:59):
and error where we're like youactually know what we do, is
this actually what you want todo?
You show them the good, the bad, the ugly, and then they're
like yes, this is what I want todo.
I am heavily bought in.
This is exciting, teach me more.
And they just want to watch usdo our jobs and learn.
And it's so exciting and welove teaching.
It's something we're bothreally passionate about.
(44:20):
So being able to just teach ourjobs to these kids and help
them look at colleges and lookat different programs, look at
different settings we're able tohelp them get in and observe
different settings and then showthem other opportunities as
well, moving forward to justhelp them grow their love for
(44:41):
athletic training.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
Oh yeah, love for athletic training, oh yeah, and
it's really great too that, uh,lily and Mariah both have talked
about already looking intoschools and and Lily is already
applying to an athletic trainingprogram.
It's, it's just so nice to seewhat we're doing is is really
paying off, uh, for these kidsand, like like Bill said,
they're, they're developingskills that their first semester
(45:02):
they may already have thesefundamentals within athletic
training and they're just goingto advance with them throughout
their high school or theircollege career.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
Yeah, so nice to listen to some very proud
parents.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
It feels like that some days.
We're like come on, kids, grabyour bags.
We're going out to thebasketball games.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
We got a couple hundred kids.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
One thing that really actually shows and I think Bill
kind of appreciate this as wellis when we observe you from the
outside, you guys have a reallynice relationship, like when we
see you in public space andinteracting.
It's very, very positive.
Chris, can you talk about Gracea little bit?
What makes it?
What's nice about working withher?
(45:41):
You know how do you guysbalance each other out.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
Of course, yeah, so it's really nice to have both
male and female athletic trainerat the school here as well.
Some situations or smaller highschools you may only have, you
know, you know one, but you haveto treat athletes that are both
male and female.
So, depending on injury basedor, or rehab, or tape or
(46:04):
anything that you need to do,there's there's a barrier, that
within healthcare, that it is sonice to have grace for the
female population of things, andI just think that our dynamic
back and forth since you knowbeing here is is it's getting
telepathic at this point.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
Yeah, by the way, for the listening audience,
whenever one is talking, theother one is nodding with a
smile on their face and it justkeeps going back and forth Like
uh-huh.
Speaker 3 (46:28):
Yes, I agree, yep, these are things we talk about
like on a daily, like getting toknow each other and talking
about things we appreciate abouteach other.
I mean, there's this dynamic inthe office where it's almost
like yin and yang, like where Imay lack in something, he can
pick up and take care of thatand it's so nice.
(46:48):
We like there's times where Imay need to be a little more
tough love of an athlete or theyjust may need more gentle
approach to things, and hisbackground too in the clinic
allows, whenever we have torefer somebody to a urgent care,
he's able to give them a kindof layout of what's going to
(47:08):
happen when they get there, orwhy they should go to an
orthopedic urgent care versus anormal urgent care.
Or hey, we can treat thisin-house and here's why, because
you're going to go to theurgent care and this is what
they're going to do and I can dothat here and that's really
exciting.
And we both like playingdifferent sports allows us to be
able to talk lingo.
So when I'm talking like testset, about swim, he's like what
(47:30):
are you talking about?
But like, when we get to morelike baseball, hockey, stuff,
I'm just like chris, help, likewhat are they saying?
What are these terms true?
and we just adapt from there.
Cheer and wrestling is adifferent world for both of us,
so learning those terms havekind of been team effort, effort
but it's it's a nice dynamicand it's fun because, like we
(47:54):
always have times where we'relaughing and then there's times
where we're able to check inwith each other and be like hey,
do you need a minute?
You had a really rough day withthat sport yesterday.
There was a lot of injuries.
It was really busy.
Let me take something off yourhand and if you have a vacation
or I have a vacation.
We can kind of swap things backand forth, um.
But it's just really thatrelationship of like checking in
(48:15):
with each other.
We try to do that as much as wecan, even if it's just 10
minutes.
Once we're both in being likewhat do you need from me?
What can can I take off yourplate?
Hey, do you mind taking thisoff my plate?
Um and things like that.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
Yeah, it's, it's really great to you know, say,
uh, emergency situation or ortypes of things that you have
throughout your day.
It's nice to know that once youare able to complete that and
things are okay, you still haveyour own personal aspect that
you might need a second.
So it's nice to have grace, toeasily step right in and have
(48:49):
the confidence and trust thatthings will continue on exactly
if you were there as well.
So it's nice that we both havethe same mindset of taking care
of the kids here and making sureeverything's great.
So, yeah, there are times ofvery seriousness, but also we
get a good laugh in too.
So it's comfy, it's nice.
Speaker 4 (49:09):
So you both spend a lot of time here at West Ottawa.
Yes, there's a grind to it all,but you're both going through
this.
You're not alone.
You have significant others athome who really allow you to
chase this job and to chase thispassion.
Chris, we'll start with you.
Maybe talk a little bit, giveyour significant other a shout
(49:32):
out of course, bianca.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
Thank you, uh.
Yeah, it's nice to have asignificant other who
understands you know, quote,quote this life, so like the
long hours, the amount of timeI'm at the school.
But it's also nice too thatshe's been able to come and be
on the sideline of a footballgame or I've had her at a
(49:54):
baseball game and she just lovesthe environment.
And it's so nice to hearafterwards that she's so, like,
extremely proud and happy to seewhat I'm doing here that her
support was already great withit.
But the time that I may spendaway from her and I'm here, she
knows, we know what it entailsand what I'm doing.
So it's just, it's so mucheasier.
(50:15):
It's a nice dynamic to knowthat you know full support by
your significant other.
So, yeah, it's great.
Speaker 3 (50:23):
I think my biggest thing is so.
Evan is my high schoolsweetheart.
We've been together over adecade and married for two years
, so we really grew up together.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
Really yes.
Speaker 3 (50:35):
So we both played sports in high school.
We went to different highschools.
We lived far away.
He was in Lowell and I was inWayland, so it was about an hour
drive in between.
So we did the distance thingand that really helped us grow
as people.
And then when we got married,started living together and I'm
doing a job where I am goneafternoon to evening and he's a
(50:57):
blue collar worker, he's anelectrician, so he does the
early mornings to the midafternoons or sometimes all day.
So finding that time and thatbalance where he might have a
little bit later of a nightbecause he's coming to a game to
just see me spend time with me,even if it's just standing on
the sideline while I do my thing, yeah, it's date night, friday
(51:19):
night football.
But so it's so nice having thatsupport from them, because they
genuinely see that we love whatwe do and they want to be a part
of it and they want to comevisit.
And the kids are hilarious whenthey find out we have
significant others, because theyask a gazillion questions.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
They don't see you as anything other than what is
presented to them on a dailybasis.
Speaker 3 (51:42):
Right.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
Yeah Well, you guys are super busy.
Thanks for taking the time tocome in.
You are truly appreciated here.
Your positions are professional.
They're highly skilled.
It could be filled by a lot ofpeople, but we are very grateful
that they are filled by you,grace, and by you, chris.
We couldn't have better peoplein your positions.
(52:03):
And remember everybody we areWest Ottawa, we are Chris.
We couldn't have better peoplein your positions.
And remember everybody we areWest Ottawa, we are community.
We are each other.
One second, I think.
I heard something in the hallyou need a what you need a
trainer Guys.
I heard someone's calling for atrainer.
Speaker 3 (52:16):
We'll be right there.
I hear that in my sleep somedays.
Speaker 1 (52:20):
Thanks you guys, it's been a blast.
Of course Thank you Thanks somuch, appreciate it.
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