September 10, 2024 • 38 mins
Sound test! We hit the "record button" as we get to know each other, testing out the equipment and brainstorming ideas about the podcast. Get a behind the scenes "look" as to how it all got started.
Co-host, Kelby Ballena, is an international specialist and legal operations professional (non-lawyer) at the "Big Law" firm, Hughes Hubbard and Reed LLP. He's been in the legal industry for over 25-years in various practice areas. His experience ranges from complex international legal cases, to teaching and simplifying best practices for those joining the legal field, to motivating efficiency and collaborations among professionals to serve our community. https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelbyballena/
Co, host, Margarita Rosa Arango, is a Colombian attorney and recent LL.M 2024 graduate from American University's Washington College of Law. She practiced international public and human right law for Colombia before arriving to the U.S. and recently joined Kelby at Hughes Hubbard & Reed LLP in mid-2025. https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaritaarangor/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Introducing the first episode, this is where we open up, I guess, some of the tech and
(00:06):
the microphones and we're testing out some stuff.
We were starting to build our energy, trying to build some kind of chemistry.
And I thought, wouldn't it be great if this natural conversation was just completely recorded
and we would just have a natural conversation about picking the music, some topics here
and there, just getting to know each other.
And make that the start of this podcast.
(00:30):
So introducing this podcast with this conversation I thought was a great way to go and then hopefully
the audience gets to know a little bit more about us, but also the tone of this hopefully
being different than what you've heard out there.
Because when we started this journey, I never thought that I would talk to as many people
in the legal sector, in the legal field, in Washington professionals.
(00:55):
You would think that they had a lot of egos, but a lot of them want to help people, want
to help their industry and they actually love what they do.
I actually remember the first time we talked about the podcast when you pitched me the
idea that you told me, I want to get lawyers to open up.
And my reaction was like, good luck.
(01:19):
You can hear everything, even if you touch the mic.
Yeah, if you touch the mic.
Now one thing we can do is we can lower the volume on the mic.
What is that?
This is the volume of the microphone.
Oh God.
And then this is the volume of this stuff.
I don't think we're going to need that.
Well, that's the best thing ever.
(01:42):
Oh my God.
Of course we're going to use those.
All right.
So I think we accomplished the first part and that was just setting it up and just getting
familiar and I'll have to not put my hands on the microphone or any of the tabletop,
which I think is a little harder because then you're so yeah.
(02:05):
And you can hear that, right?
Yeah, a lot.
It sounds like my scuba suit or something.
Okay, so no thing is bad idea.
Bad idea.
That's a great point.
Yeah, that's a great point.
Yeah.
(02:26):
You're going to hear all the.
What are those?
Pandora's.
Pandora's.
Those are charms.
So you just buy the.
Is it like one for every ex boyfriend?
One for every holiday?
You have a lot of them.
It's actually one for every trip I've done with my mother.
Wow.
So in every different city we buy a charm.
(02:48):
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay, so every one of those is a different city in Colombia or just in the world?
In the world.
Okay.
So what do you have there?
Actually, I've visited more outside that inside Colombia, but I like Colombia a lot.
So for example, this one is from Mexico City.
Okay.
That's a Hummingbird.
A Hummingbird.
Okay.
And this one is for my dog.
This one is from Medellin, my city.
(03:09):
And it looks so much like my dog.
Is your dog here or is it in Colombia?
No, in my home.
Yeah.
What is your dog's name?
Blues.
Blues?
That's cute.
Is it Australian?
Shepherd.
Shepherd?
Yeah.
I mean, because the popular Bluey is the Australian Shepherd.
So I guess.
Okay.
(03:29):
So you have the, the, the, the dog.
This one is one of my favorites.
We bought it in New York.
Okay.
Oh, that's a globe.
And my sister and I had the same one.
Is that more of a United Nations type of thing or is that?
No, you know, it's just because my mother said that the world is like our goal.
Okay.
That's like, like we can shine wherever we go.
(03:50):
Okay.
So she bought us a globe.
I like that.
And then you have a turtle.
Is that Ecuador?
I can't have a turtle.
No, this is actually, I bought it in, this one we bought it in Dubai.
In Dubai?
Yeah.
This one is in Dubai.
And this one is a, I got, I know this is an owl.
Actually, an expo friend just gave me this one.
An owl.
(04:10):
Yeah.
And.
Is that like a movie is watching you?
No.
It's because I graduated from the LLM.
So.
Okay.
Oh, that was nice.
Like we're not even talking, but he sent me the owl.
Okay.
Well that's nice.
It's just a symbol of Wilson.
A consolation prize.
And this one we bought it in Cancun.
Okay.
What is that?
(04:31):
A Katrina.
A Katrina.
Okay.
It's very nice.
It's actually, it's very well done.
Yeah.
There is some things, there's so much detail and so much history in this bracelet.
Yeah.
There's a lot of history.
That's a little true.
She gave me a bag of money because she said that money can, like it's important.
We need money.
Money can also take you to places all over the world.
(04:53):
And yeah.
Yeah.
So.
Okay.
She has been giving me a lot during the years.
This one we bought, for example, this one.
So when I was little, I couldn't pronounce my name well.
So my name is Margarita Rosa.
Okay.
And I couldn't pronounce the R. So I say it was Osa.
Osa.
And also in Spanish is a bear.
Yeah.
So she gave me this one.
This one we bought in Miami.
(05:15):
That's a great story.
Yeah.
So you bet you don't have any flowers there.
No.
Any roses.
No.
You do?
Not at all.
None of them are flowers.
Ironically, you have no roses.
That's crazy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Something to think about.
Well, I don't, it doesn't sound bad on the microphone.
So I think you should just keep it.
I mean, if it's you, you should keep it.
There's a lot of story there.
(05:36):
Yeah.
Well, that's a, it's a personal touch.
I mean, that, that is sort of what the goal is.
Oh yeah.
Trying to get a little more personal on this podcast and trying to get in.
You're good on getting personal.
I've seen that.
Yeah.
I will edit that part out.
But then the next part, if you can help me decide on the music.
(05:58):
Now I was going back and forth because remember I said, wouldn't it be interesting if we could
do this also in Spanish?
I mean, we could, you could have a Latino style option.
I don't know.
That's, that's great.
I mean, but we could have different styles.
Let me see.
Here's, here's some stuff that I went through and decided, okay, well maybe some of this
stuff is going to be good enough.
(06:20):
Oh, is it playing?
It is not playing.
Why is it not playing?
It was playing before it is supposed to play now, but now I have to begin from, from the
very beginning because I'm a moron and I did not do that correctly.
So let me see if I can restart the music that now, now I feel like we need to start with
(06:41):
that Latino aspect, but I don't know.
Let's, let's, let's give some of these a try.
Now these are all samples from premium beat and you can get a different type.
Good like starting up.
I don't know if you, this is not a dancing show.
(07:04):
And these are samples and that's why you get a premium going over and over again.
But then if we buy it, then it's something we can use.
But these are all samples on their website.
Let me see if here's the other one that was trying to play before.
I feel like this one has more of a after hours kind of beat.
(07:26):
Yeah, that's true.
Like I see myself with some wine.
Yeah.
Getting some tapas in the, in the streets of Madrid.
I was already thinking my pollo a la brasa.
Okay.
Here's another one.
(07:53):
I like this one.
Yeah.
All right.
I'm waiting for an Azucar.
Oh, we never got to it, right?
We didn't get to the Azucar part.
It's like an Anselia Cruz song.
I like it.
I like it.
Meaning someone that introduces.
(08:14):
Oh, there you go.
Oh my God.
Okay.
I'm going to, I'm going to add that to favorites here.
Yeah.
You know, and then the ones that we like, we can go ahead and.
So maybe we can have the intro, the piano part and whenever it goes crazy for the end.
Yeah.
(08:34):
Yeah.
And then just, you know, the moment that we have somebody on the podcast and they start
crying, you know, we'll just go to a, yes.
Azucar.
All right.
Well, what about this?
This?
I don't know what happened.
My playlist just went to, it got mixed.
(08:55):
I had a playlist for Latino.
No, not that one.
That one's just.
This is more Mediterranean style.
No, but if, I mean, if our main guests are going to be American or.
I don't know.
(09:16):
I used to living in.
It just might be you.
No, but if they're used to living in American world, I don't know if this is very Latino
for them.
That's true.
That's true.
What about add a little bit of cumbia?
I love it.
Is cumbia like the national.
(09:40):
It's traditional in Colombia.
Yeah.
Okay.
It's our traditional dance.
It's your traditional dance.
Okay.
I don't, I don't mind.
You know, they taught me how to dance cumbia back in school.
It was one of our.
Yeah, of course.
It was one of our final exams.
You had a final exam.
Yeah.
Like from law school?
Yeah.
No, no, no, no.
No law school.
High school.
(10:01):
You must learn how to cumbia in Colombia.
This one's a little slower, but still cumbia.
But I don't know.
No, I think we need something stronger.
Something stronger.
I agree.
Yeah.
(10:21):
All right.
I'm going to take this up.
All right.
How about, how about this one here?
This one's more Azores.
It's not the same feeling as the other ones, right?
(10:41):
Have you ever watched El Gato con Botas?
Yeah.
Puss in Boots.
Yeah.
Yes.
It brings me back to that movie.
Oh yeah?
It's more Spaniard.
Yeah.
Like Antonio Anderas or something like that.
I don't know, but same thing.
It lacks the energy that we would like to project.
Yeah.
(11:02):
Yeah, no, I agree.
It still has that like fun vibe type of thing, but it doesn't, doesn't speak to me.
Doesn't, not like the one that we, I think we both liked, which was that one.
Yeah.
Interject.
It just puts your smile on your face.
I like that.
It does.
(11:22):
Yeah, and no way to introduce a lawyer, premiumbeat.com or some ex ambassador then studying it with
this Latin thing.
The Latin thing?
It's called, it's called the Latin thing because we didn't know what to call it.
Like it's the Latin thing.
(11:43):
Okay.
Well, what about the English beat or do we just want to start them off with the Latin
style, the Latin thing?
Here's one, and now for more an American audience, which is Electro Bumblebee.
Let's see the Bumblebee.
It sounds like the Knight Rider.
You're too young to remember this show.
(12:03):
It's like a car that talks.
Which is a really dumb concept, but it became really popular.
Have you ever watched Stranger Things?
Yeah.
It's really cool.
It kind of brings me back then.
Okay.
So it does have that sort of 90s sound.
I don't know, maybe too beaty.
(12:27):
Yeah, it does seem to be a bit much.
Yeah, too much Bumblebee.
Too much Bumblebee.
Has to have the right amount of Bumblebee.
Too much Bumblebee.
I just imagine someone skating or parkour or something.
(12:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Someone's about to jump off the roof.
Yeah.
Ooh.
Wait, it doesn't work.
You just ruined it.
Because it doesn't work now without the ooh.
Okay, ready?
Ooh.
(13:10):
That is...
All right, I'm not gonna...
We gotta edit it.
All right, that...
This one's actually called The Naked Guy.
(13:33):
I don't know if that was based on the same show.
There used to be a show or a movie, The Naked Guy.
No, it's a show of friends, The Naked Guy.
They had like a lot of...
No, no, no, Naked Guy, Naked Gun.
Oh.
No, The Naked Guy, yeah, I do remember.
Wait, did The Naked Guy have a theme song?
No.
Oh.
But it was such a huge part of the show.
(13:53):
It was a huge part of the show.
We never get to see him.
Yeah.
Lovely.
You weren't allowed.
I mean, usually people don't crowd around the window of your apartment to watch someone
walk around naked.
Friends taught us so much.
Yeah, yeah, they did a lot.
And that you could breathe a waitress and still afford a massive apartment in New York.
(14:16):
Oh yeah, that's crazy.
Most of the New Yorkers...
Oh, of course, that's so realistic.
This actually is closet right now.
It is probably as big as a New York City apartment.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's crazy.
This one's called Funk U.
Oh, cool.
We can call the podcast like that.
Funk U.
(14:36):
Funk U.
Yeah, I have no idea what we want to call the podcast.
Okay.
I don't know.
It's cool.
I think.
It doesn't have that wow.
Yeah.
It like builds and builds and just doesn't get there.
Exactly.
(14:56):
Right.
No climax.
All right.
Fancy lifestyle.
No, I hate this one already.
It just doesn't go anywhere.
This one's called Bad Decision.
And they're waiting for it.
(15:25):
It doesn't get there, right?
Doesn't give you that.
It just it sounds like a loop.
Yeah.
It does sound like a loop.
Okay.
Oh, man.
We're running out of songs here.
Energizer.
It's not really energizing.
No.
(15:56):
All right.
Lessons here.
Last one.
With the greatest is his own song.
Okay, so what if we were to record our own theme song?
(16:17):
Like our own intro?
Our own music?
Like coconuts and stuff like we'll do make some sounds.
Here we go.
We're introducing ourselves.
You mean the words and not the music?
No, I mean the music, not the words.
Oh, well, I mean, that's one option.
You could you could do that.
(16:37):
Yeah, this one doesn't like really.
It's not like someone's like painting something or.
Yeah, no, I don't like that one.
It's kind of art.
What did we fall on?
We liked we like three.
No, we didn't actually like the Electro Bumblebee, right?
No, I know the Electro Bumblebee was too much Bumblebee.
And we thought the Rise of Liberty was okay.
(16:57):
Yeah, I think that one's nice.
It's calm.
And the other one was high up.
I like that one better.
Yeah.
I mean, it has more energy.
I don't know.
We have to.
(17:18):
We do need the energy.
Yeah, exactly.
We need to think that they're going to come.
I don't know at which time, probably in the morning or late night.
I mean, tired with no energy.
We need to build their energy.
We could.
Or we could have just cocktails and interview someone.
I wake up.
That's also true.
(17:39):
If we're going to do cocktails, we need the others.
I mean, I have a bar somewhere around here.
I will bring out the whiskey.
I'm not opposed to that.
All in the name of quality.
Yeah, no, no, no.
I assure you that they will open up after a few whiskies.
By the way, are you also related to someone in Congress?
(18:02):
In Colombia or here?
In Colombia.
Yeah.
You are.
OK.
Why?
The reason I ask is because your name sounded familiar.
So I was like, oh, maybe.
That's a crisis.
Maybe some people just have like here, like everyone has a Smith or Johnson.
They're not all related.
Yeah.
My mother is in Congress.
Oh, your mother's in Congress.
Wow.
(18:23):
Which actually was until the last period.
Yeah.
So we're this period now.
She's doing she loves politics.
Did you ever want to be in Congress or like in politics?
I like politics.
I like them like in the back seat.
OK.
I don't like to be the politician.
OK.
I like people.
You like being polite, but you don't like you like being political or diplomatic.
(18:47):
No, I hate being the political.
To be honest.
Yeah.
I like being me.
Yeah.
And I hate being like uptight.
OK.
That's not for me.
So you want to be real?
Yeah.
So she she's going to say, fuck you.
I do.
I mean, and so so my mother, she loves politics.
(19:10):
Yeah.
And I don't know anything about colonial power.
So I mean, she's so good at that.
Yeah.
She loves people.
She loves being around everyone.
She loves moving around and knowing things and going to different territories.
But now she is not.
She doesn't want to do national politics.
She like to like to stay in our region, which is Antioquia.
All right.
Which is a very beautiful region in Colombia.
(19:32):
And so now she's the regional secretariat of tourism in in Antioquia.
Wow.
Yeah.
So she's in charge of tourism.
That's quite a business card.
So whenever you want to go to Colombia, just let us know, please.
What's interesting, though, I was watching some Tiktok where some people have gotten
to this point where dating is so bad that now men are traveling to Colombia to find wives.
(19:58):
Yeah.
And that's a date to find wives and then bring them back because the culture is either warmer
or it's different or something like that.
Oh, no, it's super normal.
Yeah.
And in Medellin, which is my city, that's usually what it's done.
Really?
Yeah, tourists love paisas.
(20:19):
That's how we are called.
Yeah.
Paisas?
Paisas.
Yes.
They call you.
You're not Colombians.
You're paisas.
Paisas.
Yes.
I mean, just for the region.
OK.
So each of the Colombian region have their own name.
Yeah.
So we're paisas and like people from all over the world come to Colombia to Medellin to meet
(20:43):
women.
Wow.
It's so natural.
But what is the appeal?
What is the special power?
You can go to the Philippines.
You can go to Spain.
You can go anywhere.
What is it about Colombia?
Is it the cumbia?
I'm not sure.
I think.
There you go.
Oh, yeah.
See, now I'm liking this one better.
Eso.
All right.
Yeah.
(21:04):
OK.
So they're going there.
See, it lightened up the mood.
It did, right?
Right.
I didn't want to cry.
I don't actually have any cleaning.
Maybe cleaning shouldn't be.
Oh, we should buy tissues.
Tissues.
Yeah, I think we should sponsor us.
Cleaning is our sponsor.
The miniaturists.
So they're all coming to Colombia.
Tourism is high.
Who would say no to coming to the United States?
(21:27):
Really?
Yeah, of course.
Well, a lot of Americans want to get out of here because of all the things that are going
on in the U.S.
I know.
It's so crazy.
And a lot of Colombians want to come here.
They actually really like Spain and Italy, too.
Yeah.
And Italians love us.
OK.
So the Italians are dying to come here, start a brand new life.
Yeah.
And see.
But also, you know what?
(21:48):
This kind of stuff and this kind of trends have increased a lot of human trafficking
as well.
Wow.
And that's a big issue in Medellin right now.
Human trafficking.
Yeah.
So they're bringing women out of Colombia and bringing them to the United States.
Yes.
(22:08):
Oh, mostly Europe.
Yeah.
And the biggest networks of human trafficking is in Europe.
It's in Bulgaria.
And you've written articles about this, like in law school?
Was that like the thing that motivated you to come here?
Because it sounds like why would you come here then if you had India?
(22:30):
So before this, I did some human rights practices.
Yeah.
And I was in charge of human trafficking.
Wow.
Like committee in Colombia.
And it was nice.
I like that.
What does the human rights committee do?
So OK, we are an interdisciplinary team.
(22:53):
OK.
That it's also interstate.
OK.
So we are we're located in the capital that is Bogota.
OK.
And we have to coordinate with all of the regions in Colombia.
And we need to first monitor the situation of human trafficking in each of the states
of Colombia.
But how exactly do you stop it?
(23:16):
Like you have lists or you're working with the police?
We have different things.
Yeah, we work with the police.
We work with our intelligence in Colombia.
And we work with different ministries that are in charge of separate things.
So the Ministry of Justice.
So you're really helping the communication.
(23:37):
Yeah, of course.
Back and forth.
Yeah.
And so there are different approaches that we take.
We can either go after the person who is doing the trafficking.
OK, which is really, really hard.
We can also go get the victims that we find of human trafficking and tell them, OK, I
(23:59):
mean, come with us.
Sometimes they even make so much money that they say, why will we come with you?
I mean, what are you going to give us?
What can the state offer us that they're not offering us here?
And even better because.
So there's no incentive to give up the trafficking because they're making just so much money
that just rather just be like, yeah, yeah, but you could be a lawyer.
(24:22):
In a day.
Yeah, of course.
I mean, you can kill your husband just to be a lawyer.
You know, all you have to do is work 12 hours a day for about 80,000 a year.
Exactly.
And it will cost you 300,000 dollars.
Law school debt to do it.
Yeah.
Even when you start working, you're still paying loans.
(24:42):
Yeah.
So no.
So yeah, really, like I think that right now it's a serious situation.
You also did an article or paper in sexual harassment.
Yeah.
OK.
And then you're believing that coming here.
Did you study me or something?
I always study everybody.
And then you come here and you're like, I will do international arbitration.
(25:05):
What's the relationship there?
I've always wanted to be in the international field.
I have two majors.
OK, I study law, but I also study international relations.
Yeah.
Because I wanted to be in international realm.
And I thought back then that law was just national.
(25:26):
I was very wrong about that.
Yeah.
But I love like studying law.
I love my career.
You didn't get discouraged by a lot of the gray.
Like this is the law, but this is the actual application of it.
You know, I'm very creative.
So I let it flow.
I started enhancing my knowledge in law.
(25:50):
Eventually, I mean, with law school and stuff and everything that came next.
And I had the opportunity in my school, in my law school, that whenever you graduate,
you need to do a thesis or you can do an internship in an international organization.
But getting the internship is very hard.
Yeah.
(26:10):
I was not going to write a thesis.
I hate that.
Yeah.
I hate to write.
That's one of the reasons I didn't go into law.
But you know, I hate that.
So I said, no, I will apply for the internship.
And everyone told me, no, no, no, you're not going to get it.
You're not going to get it because it's very hard.
I mean, you're going to Washington, D.C. in the permanent mission of Columbia to the OAS.
(26:30):
Who knows you there?
No one.
I mean, how are you going to get in?
So you came here not knowing anyone.
So I got the internship because a professor in the university helped me.
She recommended me and he's like a very important person then there.
So he helped me getting the internship and I did.
And I had to came to Washington, D.C. for a year to do my internship here.
(26:52):
And during summer I had nothing to do and I hate wasting my time.
I need to be doing something.
If not, I'll get crazy.
Yeah.
And so I came here and I do start collecting cats.
I'll probably do that.
It's a bad idea.
So during the summer I had nothing to do and I was living actually near American University.
(27:15):
Yeah.
So you heard of American University?
Why not?
Why not go there and see if they have a summer program or something like that and let's see
what happens next.
And they did.
They had a summer program about the summer program was not about arbitration.
It was about legal English.
(27:35):
Legal English.
Right.
And you got your your master's in that?
I got a diploma in legal English.
Diploma in legal English.
And so I had no idea that that was a thing.
A legal English.
It's crazy.
So but the classes were taught using arbitration cases.
Yeah.
And so I started getting into the arbitration world and it really hooked me up.
(27:59):
I really liked it.
I thought it was very interesting.
And then after that program, one of the professors told me, hey, you know, there's an LLM degree.
Why don't you take a look at it and see if you want to pursue it?
Not even knowing that you had all of these options.
Not even knowing.
You were very hopeful.
My mother said, you need to get some more experience first.
(28:20):
OK.
I was like, OK, but what do I do?
I don't know.
Apply, apply.
And so I had been working in the university with we had like this legal clinic that was
specialized in gender and sex violence.
OK.
So it was a special class or was it?
No, no, it was like a legal clinic, like a fellowship.
(28:42):
Yeah.
All right.
You're helping people who come to the clinic.
Exactly.
So it was a legal clinic.
Advice.
Advice.
OK.
And I like that.
And one of the professors there, professors have been a big part of my life now that I
think about it.
So one of the professors there were like, hey, Rosie, why don't you, my friends call
me Rosie.
Hey, Rosie, why don't you come?
(29:03):
And I have been working in some legal research to do a bill about gender violence.
Come work with me.
I'm like, OK, sure.
So we were the academic part.
But the other part making the bill was the general inspector's office in Colombia.
(29:24):
And so I knew the general inspector, which is the head of the office, and he liked me.
We started working together very good.
He is what I owe that guy a lot.
He's he was so good to me and he taught me so much.
After that, I went to work with him.
Yeah.
And I was handling the comedy on human trafficking.
(29:47):
OK.
And I worked there for four years.
And then I came here to do my LLM in international arbitration.
Yeah.
And then we had met because you were doing your what was it?
Moot Court competition.
Yeah.
For your LLM.
Yeah.
And I was judging that because I hate to do nothing to.
So and one of the things I'm surprised with.
(30:07):
Yeah.
Because you have a lot of people who are talented in their areas.
Great writers, great speakers, great lawyers.
And then you put them on a stage and they don't want to give advice.
They don't want to.
They don't know how to mentor.
Maybe that's the thing is that they don't know how to mentor.
We keep a lot of information to ourselves and we're very negative about it.
(30:28):
So it's almost like we keep our secrets because if we reveal them, the other person might
have an opportunity, a leg up on us.
And we're always competing.
So yeah, I was lucky that I had met you and then I had met you afterwards at an event
that someone else had sent me to and we were like, hey, do you want to go to this event?
(30:51):
And I said, yeah, I'd even know that it existed.
And then I had seen you and some others from the Moot Court competition.
And I was like, the first thing I'll be honest, the first thing I saw in you, I was like,
why is she so chipper?
And you have a lot of beam of light and excitement despite like you now that knowing getting
to know you more and like you're working in sexual harassment and violence and children's
(31:14):
human rights and you're dealing in different areas and your family is in the political
spectrum.
What is your purpose in life that you have so much light in you?
And like, which I really hope that you do something with that and no one actually blows
out that candle.
That's a lot against you, but I'm glad that you still have that light.
(31:37):
And I'm fully taking advantage of it, I think, at this moment, because I have you on this
podcast.
This conversation will be very different on Zoom.
I really think so.
Totally.
You don't have that moment to like just relax.
No, and the internet freeze.
I don't know.
It's awful.
Yeah.
And you don't have the...
Oh my God, that's the best thing ever.
(31:57):
I mean, I should get a bigger soundboard for the different sounds.
You don't have that.
Eventually we will have like a DJ panel over here.
I think.
Don't encourage me.
What do you think?
Do you think that maybe most of the relationships we're building are fake?
(32:21):
I think so.
Because eventually we're going to be competing against each other.
I think in America we have this epidemic.
And that is many of us don't have that many friends.
You hear and you see people in their 30s and their 40s that are like, where do I make friends?
Where do I make parent friends?
(32:42):
Because you lose a lot of them after school.
And even those, you don't really know that they're like really truly good friendships.
And as you get older, it gets harder.
Maybe you were all in law school together, but maybe now the person who is sitting next
to you in law school is now a CEO of a financial company and it's completely different than
(33:03):
what you do.
So one of the things I always tell, and I usually tell a lot of stories when it comes
to dating because I think most people understand dating a little bit better.
But when you go on a date with someone, why is it that in America, one of the first questions
is what do you do?
How much do you make?
(33:24):
It's like.
No, you ask each other how much.
Now they do that.
Oh my God.
Now they do.
Now it becomes like this core question.
How much do you make?
Can you afford me?
No, this is this is what I'm coming with.
What do you bring to the table?
And we've become this culture with that that does that has these expectations, but your
(33:45):
real your core has become work.
Why?
And is it is that great?
Is that natural?
Does that make us more competitive than other countries that work is what we do?
Or is it one of those sad things that you should be able to go on a date and ask, you
know, what did you do on your 21st birthday?
(34:07):
What kind of hobbies do you like that make you feel happy?
Are there any things that you like to do that if you had more money to invest in, you would
do?
But because of that, you don't.
I love playing music.
I loved exploring different sounds and stuff, but you don't make money doing music.
(34:27):
And it's highly competitive.
There's not enough bands.
But I like the idea of just playing music, developing music for the idea of just for
myself and to capture in a way.
Do you play instruments?
I did.
I played the trombone.
And one day my teacher in high school, I was messing around with the drums.
(34:47):
I think there was a band.
It was a heavy metal band, by the way.
It was a heavy metal band.
And they were like, hey, can you help us with the drum beat?
I was like, I don't play the drums, but sure, I can help you because it sounded like you
guys were just like going really, really crazy with the music.
So I just started playing around.
And some of them, my high school teacher was like, by the way, we need someone to help
(35:08):
us in a musical.
We don't have a drummer.
And we were really short on musicians.
The first time I ever had heard a musical, this first musical was The Little Shop of
Horrors.
I don't know.
No, of course I do.
Yeah.
I've never seen it, but I had played it over and over and over again.
(35:30):
And then opening night, everything is going on.
But we were down in the pit.
So we were playing music and we're down in the pit and you can hear what's going on.
And I pretty much know the story in my head.
I would have stayed in music.
I would have loved to write or compose because one of my favorite things to do is to listen
to soundtracks.
And there's certain composers that are really, really great at capturing an essence, a sound
(35:56):
that you can feel that this is a sad moment.
You can feel that this is a happy without even watching.
And it really comes with because my family was really, really reserved.
They're really religious.
I think it was maybe nine or 10 or something when they had switched from Catholic to an
evangelical denomination.
(36:16):
And they were just like, no, no, the music is the devil or something.
Crazy things.
But at the time there was something that you're probably too young to notice, but it was the
Columbia music.
And they would send you CDs to your house for like a penny or something like that.
Six of them for a penny.
(36:38):
Really under the contract, you had to buy six more at full price.
I didn't know.
I was a kid.
I got the six free and one of the six was Jurassic Park because I really wanted to see
this movie and everybody had hyped it up.
And I thought, oh, okay.
But I didn't get the chance to watch it because I was forbidden to watch a movie.
But I would play that one over and over again because John Williams would do such a great
(37:02):
job at going from a theme of horror to a theme of like just heroic beauty to an action scene.
And it wasn't until college that I had separated from my family in that idea and religious
thoughts.
(37:23):
And I had said, I'm going to watch Jurassic Park for the first time.
I got a very large TV at the time, so I would watch it.
It was one of these big boxes.
They don't make them anymore.
These boxes, things that read.
The ones that had like a body behind.
They were super heavy.
You needed like a truck to carry.
I had to donate at some point.
You had to get like four guys to get the damn TV out.
(37:46):
But I watched Jurassic Park for the first time and I feel like I am brought to tears
because this entire thing, I had heard it, I kid you not, at least a hundred times from
beginning to end.
I heard it over and over again.
And I'm watching the movie and I'm seeing the music come to life.
I'm watching the scenes.
(38:06):
I could hear, I know what's coming up, but I'm watching it and I'm like, this is so great.
I wish that I had had all the money in the world at that time to say, oh, this is one
of my passions.
We don't talk about these things.
Is that really the person you are?
Like, oh, I'm a lawyer.
I'm a paralegal.
I'm a specialist in this or that.
(38:28):
Is that really who you are or is it I love playing football?
I'm an athlete.
I think we're interested.
Introducing the first episode, this is where we open up, I guess, some of the tech and
(00:06):
the microphones and we're testing out some stuff.
We were starting to build our energy, trying to build some kind of chemistry.
And I thought, wouldn't it be great if this natural conversation was just completely recorded
and we would just have a natural conversation about picking the music, some topics here
and there, just getting to know each other.
And make that the start of this podcast.
(00:30):
So introducing this podcast with this conversation I thought was a great way to go and then hopefully
the audience gets to know a little bit more about us, but also the tone of this hopefully
being different than what you've heard out there.
Because when we started this journey, I never thought that I would talk to as many people
in the legal sector, in the legal field, in Washington professionals.
(00:55):
You would think that they had a lot of egos, but a lot of them want to help people, want
to help their industry and they actually love what they do.
I actually remember the first time we talked about the podcast when you pitched me the
idea that you told me, I want to get lawyers to open up.
And my reaction was like, good luck.
(01:19):
You can hear everything, even if you touch the mic.
Yeah, if you touch the mic.
Now one thing we can do is we can lower the volume on the mic.
What is that?
This is the volume of the microphone.
Oh God.
And then this is the volume of this stuff.
I don't think we're going to need that.
Well, that's the best thing ever.
(01:42):
Oh my God.
Of course we're going to use those.
All right.
So I think we accomplished the first part and that was just setting it up and just getting
familiar and I'll have to not put my hands on the microphone or any of the tabletop,
which I think is a little harder because then you're so yeah.
(02:05):
And you can hear that, right?
Yeah, a lot.
It sounds like my scuba suit or something.
Okay, so no thing is bad idea.
Bad idea.
That's a great point.
Yeah, that's a great point.
Yeah.
(02:26):
You're going to hear all the.
What are those?
Pandora's.
Pandora's.
Those are charms.
So you just buy the.
Is it like one for every ex boyfriend?
One for every holiday?
You have a lot of them.
It's actually one for every trip I've done with my mother.
Wow.
So in every different city we buy a charm.
(02:48):
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay, so every one of those is a different city in Colombia or just in the world?
In the world.
Okay.
So what do you have there?
Actually, I've visited more outside that inside Colombia, but I like Colombia a lot.
So for example, this one is from Mexico City.
Okay.
That's a Hummingbird.
A Hummingbird.
Okay.
And this one is for my dog.
This one is from Medellin, my city.
(03:09):
And it looks so much like my dog.
Is your dog here or is it in Colombia?
No, in my home.
Yeah.
What is your dog's name?
Blues.
Blues?
That's cute.
Is it Australian?
Shepherd.
Shepherd?
Yeah.
I mean, because the popular Bluey is the Australian Shepherd.
So I guess.
Okay.
(03:29):
So you have the, the, the, the dog.
This one is one of my favorites.
We bought it in New York.
Okay.
Oh, that's a globe.
And my sister and I had the same one.
Is that more of a United Nations type of thing or is that?
No, you know, it's just because my mother said that the world is like our goal.
Okay.
That's like, like we can shine wherever we go.
(03:50):
Okay.
So she bought us a globe.
I like that.
And then you have a turtle.
Is that Ecuador?
I can't have a turtle.
No, this is actually, I bought it in, this one we bought it in Dubai.
In Dubai?
Yeah.
This one is in Dubai.
And this one is a, I got, I know this is an owl.
Actually, an expo friend just gave me this one.
An owl.
(04:10):
Yeah.
And.
Is that like a movie is watching you?
No.
It's because I graduated from the LLM.
So.
Okay.
Oh, that was nice.
Like we're not even talking, but he sent me the owl.
Okay.
Well that's nice.
It's just a symbol of Wilson.
A consolation prize.
And this one we bought it in Cancun.
Okay.
What is that?
(04:31):
A Katrina.
A Katrina.
Okay.
It's very nice.
It's actually, it's very well done.
Yeah.
There is some things, there's so much detail and so much history in this bracelet.
Yeah.
There's a lot of history.
That's a little true.
She gave me a bag of money because she said that money can, like it's important.
We need money.
Money can also take you to places all over the world.
(04:53):
And yeah.
Yeah.
So.
Okay.
She has been giving me a lot during the years.
This one we bought, for example, this one.
So when I was little, I couldn't pronounce my name well.
So my name is Margarita Rosa.
Okay.
And I couldn't pronounce the R. So I say it was Osa.
Osa.
And also in Spanish is a bear.
Yeah.
So she gave me this one.
This one we bought in Miami.
(05:15):
That's a great story.
Yeah.
So you bet you don't have any flowers there.
No.
Any roses.
No.
You do?
Not at all.
None of them are flowers.
Ironically, you have no roses.
That's crazy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Something to think about.
Well, I don't, it doesn't sound bad on the microphone.
So I think you should just keep it.
I mean, if it's you, you should keep it.
There's a lot of story there.
(05:36):
Yeah.
Well, that's a, it's a personal touch.
I mean, that, that is sort of what the goal is.
Oh yeah.
Trying to get a little more personal on this podcast and trying to get in.
You're good on getting personal.
I've seen that.
Yeah.
I will edit that part out.
But then the next part, if you can help me decide on the music.
(05:58):
Now I was going back and forth because remember I said, wouldn't it be interesting if we could
do this also in Spanish?
I mean, we could, you could have a Latino style option.
I don't know.
That's, that's great.
I mean, but we could have different styles.
Let me see.
Here's, here's some stuff that I went through and decided, okay, well maybe some of this
stuff is going to be good enough.
(06:20):
Oh, is it playing?
It is not playing.
Why is it not playing?
It was playing before it is supposed to play now, but now I have to begin from, from the
very beginning because I'm a moron and I did not do that correctly.
So let me see if I can restart the music that now, now I feel like we need to start with
(06:41):
that Latino aspect, but I don't know.
Let's, let's, let's give some of these a try.
Now these are all samples from premium beat and you can get a different type.
Good like starting up.
I don't know if you, this is not a dancing show.
(07:04):
And these are samples and that's why you get a premium going over and over again.
But then if we buy it, then it's something we can use.
But these are all samples on their website.
Let me see if here's the other one that was trying to play before.
I feel like this one has more of a after hours kind of beat.
(07:26):
Yeah, that's true.
Like I see myself with some wine.
Yeah.
Getting some tapas in the, in the streets of Madrid.
I was already thinking my pollo a la brasa.
Okay.
Here's another one.
(07:53):
I like this one.
Yeah.
All right.
I'm waiting for an Azucar.
Oh, we never got to it, right?
We didn't get to the Azucar part.
It's like an Anselia Cruz song.
I like it.
I like it.
Meaning someone that introduces.
(08:14):
Oh, there you go.
Oh my God.
Okay.
I'm going to, I'm going to add that to favorites here.
Yeah.
You know, and then the ones that we like, we can go ahead and.
So maybe we can have the intro, the piano part and whenever it goes crazy for the end.
Yeah.
(08:34):
Yeah.
And then just, you know, the moment that we have somebody on the podcast and they start
crying, you know, we'll just go to a, yes.
Azucar.
All right.
Well, what about this?
This?
I don't know what happened.
My playlist just went to, it got mixed.
(08:55):
I had a playlist for Latino.
No, not that one.
That one's just.
This is more Mediterranean style.
No, but if, I mean, if our main guests are going to be American or.
I don't know.
(09:16):
I used to living in.
It just might be you.
No, but if they're used to living in American world, I don't know if this is very Latino
for them.
That's true.
That's true.
What about add a little bit of cumbia?
I love it.
Is cumbia like the national.
(09:40):
It's traditional in Colombia.
Yeah.
Okay.
It's our traditional dance.
It's your traditional dance.
Okay.
I don't, I don't mind.
You know, they taught me how to dance cumbia back in school.
It was one of our.
Yeah, of course.
It was one of our final exams.
You had a final exam.
Yeah.
Like from law school?
Yeah.
No, no, no, no.
No law school.
High school.
(10:01):
You must learn how to cumbia in Colombia.
This one's a little slower, but still cumbia.
But I don't know.
No, I think we need something stronger.
Something stronger.
I agree.
Yeah.
(10:21):
All right.
I'm going to take this up.
All right.
How about, how about this one here?
This one's more Azores.
It's not the same feeling as the other ones, right?
(10:41):
Have you ever watched El Gato con Botas?
Yeah.
Puss in Boots.
Yeah.
Yes.
It brings me back to that movie.
Oh yeah?
It's more Spaniard.
Yeah.
Like Antonio Anderas or something like that.
I don't know, but same thing.
It lacks the energy that we would like to project.
Yeah.
(11:02):
Yeah, no, I agree.
It still has that like fun vibe type of thing, but it doesn't, doesn't speak to me.
Doesn't, not like the one that we, I think we both liked, which was that one.
Yeah.
Interject.
It just puts your smile on your face.
I like that.
It does.
(11:22):
Yeah, and no way to introduce a lawyer, premiumbeat.com or some ex ambassador then studying it with
this Latin thing.
The Latin thing?
It's called, it's called the Latin thing because we didn't know what to call it.
Like it's the Latin thing.
(11:43):
Okay.
Well, what about the English beat or do we just want to start them off with the Latin
style, the Latin thing?
Here's one, and now for more an American audience, which is Electro Bumblebee.
Let's see the Bumblebee.
It sounds like the Knight Rider.
You're too young to remember this show.
(12:03):
It's like a car that talks.
Which is a really dumb concept, but it became really popular.
Have you ever watched Stranger Things?
Yeah.
It's really cool.
It kind of brings me back then.
Okay.
So it does have that sort of 90s sound.
I don't know, maybe too beaty.
(12:27):
Yeah, it does seem to be a bit much.
Yeah, too much Bumblebee.
Too much Bumblebee.
Has to have the right amount of Bumblebee.
Too much Bumblebee.
I just imagine someone skating or parkour or something.
(12:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Someone's about to jump off the roof.
Yeah.
Ooh.
Wait, it doesn't work.
You just ruined it.
Because it doesn't work now without the ooh.
Okay, ready?
Ooh.
(13:10):
That is...
All right, I'm not gonna...
We gotta edit it.
All right, that...
This one's actually called The Naked Guy.
(13:33):
I don't know if that was based on the same show.
There used to be a show or a movie, The Naked Guy.
No, it's a show of friends, The Naked Guy.
They had like a lot of...
No, no, no, Naked Guy, Naked Gun.
Oh.
No, The Naked Guy, yeah, I do remember.
Wait, did The Naked Guy have a theme song?
No.
Oh.
But it was such a huge part of the show.
(13:53):
It was a huge part of the show.
We never get to see him.
Yeah.
Lovely.
You weren't allowed.
I mean, usually people don't crowd around the window of your apartment to watch someone
walk around naked.
Friends taught us so much.
Yeah, yeah, they did a lot.
And that you could breathe a waitress and still afford a massive apartment in New York.
(14:16):
Oh yeah, that's crazy.
Most of the New Yorkers...
Oh, of course, that's so realistic.
This actually is closet right now.
It is probably as big as a New York City apartment.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's crazy.
This one's called Funk U.
Oh, cool.
We can call the podcast like that.
Funk U.
(14:36):
Funk U.
Yeah, I have no idea what we want to call the podcast.
Okay.
I don't know.
It's cool.
I think.
It doesn't have that wow.
Yeah.
It like builds and builds and just doesn't get there.
Exactly.
(14:56):
Right.
No climax.
All right.
Fancy lifestyle.
No, I hate this one already.
It just doesn't go anywhere.
This one's called Bad Decision.
And they're waiting for it.
(15:25):
It doesn't get there, right?
Doesn't give you that.
It just it sounds like a loop.
Yeah.
It does sound like a loop.
Okay.
Oh, man.
We're running out of songs here.
Energizer.
It's not really energizing.
No.
(15:56):
All right.
Lessons here.
Last one.
With the greatest is his own song.
Okay, so what if we were to record our own theme song?
(16:17):
Like our own intro?
Our own music?
Like coconuts and stuff like we'll do make some sounds.
Here we go.
We're introducing ourselves.
You mean the words and not the music?
No, I mean the music, not the words.
Oh, well, I mean, that's one option.
You could you could do that.
(16:37):
Yeah, this one doesn't like really.
It's not like someone's like painting something or.
Yeah, no, I don't like that one.
It's kind of art.
What did we fall on?
We liked we like three.
No, we didn't actually like the Electro Bumblebee, right?
No, I know the Electro Bumblebee was too much Bumblebee.
And we thought the Rise of Liberty was okay.
(16:57):
Yeah, I think that one's nice.
It's calm.
And the other one was high up.
I like that one better.
Yeah.
I mean, it has more energy.
I don't know.
We have to.
(17:18):
We do need the energy.
Yeah, exactly.
We need to think that they're going to come.
I don't know at which time, probably in the morning or late night.
I mean, tired with no energy.
We need to build their energy.
We could.
Or we could have just cocktails and interview someone.
I wake up.
That's also true.
(17:39):
If we're going to do cocktails, we need the others.
I mean, I have a bar somewhere around here.
I will bring out the whiskey.
I'm not opposed to that.
All in the name of quality.
Yeah, no, no, no.
I assure you that they will open up after a few whiskies.
By the way, are you also related to someone in Congress?
(18:02):
In Colombia or here?
In Colombia.
Yeah.
You are.
OK.
Why?
The reason I ask is because your name sounded familiar.
So I was like, oh, maybe.
That's a crisis.
Maybe some people just have like here, like everyone has a Smith or Johnson.
They're not all related.
Yeah.
My mother is in Congress.
Oh, your mother's in Congress.
Wow.
(18:23):
Which actually was until the last period.
Yeah.
So we're this period now.
She's doing she loves politics.
Did you ever want to be in Congress or like in politics?
I like politics.
I like them like in the back seat.
OK.
I don't like to be the politician.
OK.
I like people.
You like being polite, but you don't like you like being political or diplomatic.
(18:47):
No, I hate being the political.
To be honest.
Yeah.
I like being me.
Yeah.
And I hate being like uptight.
OK.
That's not for me.
So you want to be real?
Yeah.
So she she's going to say, fuck you.
I do.
I mean, and so so my mother, she loves politics.
(19:10):
Yeah.
And I don't know anything about colonial power.
So I mean, she's so good at that.
Yeah.
She loves people.
She loves being around everyone.
She loves moving around and knowing things and going to different territories.
But now she is not.
She doesn't want to do national politics.
She like to like to stay in our region, which is Antioquia.
All right.
Which is a very beautiful region in Colombia.
(19:32):
And so now she's the regional secretariat of tourism in in Antioquia.
Wow.
Yeah.
So she's in charge of tourism.
That's quite a business card.
So whenever you want to go to Colombia, just let us know, please.
What's interesting, though, I was watching some Tiktok where some people have gotten
to this point where dating is so bad that now men are traveling to Colombia to find wives.
(19:58):
Yeah.
And that's a date to find wives and then bring them back because the culture is either warmer
or it's different or something like that.
Oh, no, it's super normal.
Yeah.
And in Medellin, which is my city, that's usually what it's done.
Really?
Yeah, tourists love paisas.
(20:19):
That's how we are called.
Yeah.
Paisas?
Paisas.
Yes.
They call you.
You're not Colombians.
You're paisas.
Paisas.
Yes.
I mean, just for the region.
OK.
So each of the Colombian region have their own name.
Yeah.
So we're paisas and like people from all over the world come to Colombia to Medellin to meet
(20:43):
women.
Wow.
It's so natural.
But what is the appeal?
What is the special power?
You can go to the Philippines.
You can go to Spain.
You can go anywhere.
What is it about Colombia?
Is it the cumbia?
I'm not sure.
I think.
There you go.
Oh, yeah.
See, now I'm liking this one better.
Eso.
All right.
Yeah.
(21:04):
OK.
So they're going there.
See, it lightened up the mood.
It did, right?
Right.
I didn't want to cry.
I don't actually have any cleaning.
Maybe cleaning shouldn't be.
Oh, we should buy tissues.
Tissues.
Yeah, I think we should sponsor us.
Cleaning is our sponsor.
The miniaturists.
So they're all coming to Colombia.
Tourism is high.
Who would say no to coming to the United States?
(21:27):
Really?
Yeah, of course.
Well, a lot of Americans want to get out of here because of all the things that are going
on in the U.S.
I know.
It's so crazy.
And a lot of Colombians want to come here.
They actually really like Spain and Italy, too.
Yeah.
And Italians love us.
OK.
So the Italians are dying to come here, start a brand new life.
Yeah.
And see.
But also, you know what?
(21:48):
This kind of stuff and this kind of trends have increased a lot of human trafficking
as well.
Wow.
And that's a big issue in Medellin right now.
Human trafficking.
Yeah.
So they're bringing women out of Colombia and bringing them to the United States.
Yes.
(22:08):
Oh, mostly Europe.
Yeah.
And the biggest networks of human trafficking is in Europe.
It's in Bulgaria.
And you've written articles about this, like in law school?
Was that like the thing that motivated you to come here?
Because it sounds like why would you come here then if you had India?
(22:30):
So before this, I did some human rights practices.
Yeah.
And I was in charge of human trafficking.
Wow.
Like committee in Colombia.
And it was nice.
I like that.
What does the human rights committee do?
So OK, we are an interdisciplinary team.
(22:53):
OK.
That it's also interstate.
OK.
So we are we're located in the capital that is Bogota.
OK.
And we have to coordinate with all of the regions in Colombia.
And we need to first monitor the situation of human trafficking in each of the states
of Colombia.
But how exactly do you stop it?
(23:16):
Like you have lists or you're working with the police?
We have different things.
Yeah, we work with the police.
We work with our intelligence in Colombia.
And we work with different ministries that are in charge of separate things.
So the Ministry of Justice.
So you're really helping the communication.
(23:37):
Yeah, of course.
Back and forth.
Yeah.
And so there are different approaches that we take.
We can either go after the person who is doing the trafficking.
OK, which is really, really hard.
We can also go get the victims that we find of human trafficking and tell them, OK, I
(23:59):
mean, come with us.
Sometimes they even make so much money that they say, why will we come with you?
I mean, what are you going to give us?
What can the state offer us that they're not offering us here?
And even better because.
So there's no incentive to give up the trafficking because they're making just so much money
that just rather just be like, yeah, yeah, but you could be a lawyer.
(24:22):
In a day.
Yeah, of course.
I mean, you can kill your husband just to be a lawyer.
You know, all you have to do is work 12 hours a day for about 80,000 a year.
Exactly.
And it will cost you 300,000 dollars.
Law school debt to do it.
Yeah.
Even when you start working, you're still paying loans.
(24:42):
Yeah.
So no.
So yeah, really, like I think that right now it's a serious situation.
You also did an article or paper in sexual harassment.
Yeah.
OK.
And then you're believing that coming here.
Did you study me or something?
I always study everybody.
And then you come here and you're like, I will do international arbitration.
(25:05):
What's the relationship there?
I've always wanted to be in the international field.
I have two majors.
OK, I study law, but I also study international relations.
Yeah.
Because I wanted to be in international realm.
And I thought back then that law was just national.
(25:26):
I was very wrong about that.
Yeah.
But I love like studying law.
I love my career.
You didn't get discouraged by a lot of the gray.
Like this is the law, but this is the actual application of it.
You know, I'm very creative.
So I let it flow.
I started enhancing my knowledge in law.
(25:50):
Eventually, I mean, with law school and stuff and everything that came next.
And I had the opportunity in my school, in my law school, that whenever you graduate,
you need to do a thesis or you can do an internship in an international organization.
But getting the internship is very hard.
Yeah.
(26:10):
I was not going to write a thesis.
I hate that.
Yeah.
I hate to write.
That's one of the reasons I didn't go into law.
But you know, I hate that.
So I said, no, I will apply for the internship.
And everyone told me, no, no, no, you're not going to get it.
You're not going to get it because it's very hard.
I mean, you're going to Washington, D.C. in the permanent mission of Columbia to the OAS.
(26:30):
Who knows you there?
No one.
I mean, how are you going to get in?
So you came here not knowing anyone.
So I got the internship because a professor in the university helped me.
She recommended me and he's like a very important person then there.
So he helped me getting the internship and I did.
And I had to came to Washington, D.C. for a year to do my internship here.
(26:52):
And during summer I had nothing to do and I hate wasting my time.
I need to be doing something.
If not, I'll get crazy.
Yeah.
And so I came here and I do start collecting cats.
I'll probably do that.
It's a bad idea.
So during the summer I had nothing to do and I was living actually near American University.
(27:15):
Yeah.
So you heard of American University?
Why not?
Why not go there and see if they have a summer program or something like that and let's see
what happens next.
And they did.
They had a summer program about the summer program was not about arbitration.
It was about legal English.
(27:35):
Legal English.
Right.
And you got your your master's in that?
I got a diploma in legal English.
Diploma in legal English.
And so I had no idea that that was a thing.
A legal English.
It's crazy.
So but the classes were taught using arbitration cases.
Yeah.
And so I started getting into the arbitration world and it really hooked me up.
(27:59):
I really liked it.
I thought it was very interesting.
And then after that program, one of the professors told me, hey, you know, there's an LLM degree.
Why don't you take a look at it and see if you want to pursue it?
Not even knowing that you had all of these options.
Not even knowing.
You were very hopeful.
My mother said, you need to get some more experience first.
(28:20):
OK.
I was like, OK, but what do I do?
I don't know.
Apply, apply.
And so I had been working in the university with we had like this legal clinic that was
specialized in gender and sex violence.
OK.
So it was a special class or was it?
No, no, it was like a legal clinic, like a fellowship.
(28:42):
Yeah.
All right.
You're helping people who come to the clinic.
Exactly.
So it was a legal clinic.
Advice.
Advice.
OK.
And I like that.
And one of the professors there, professors have been a big part of my life now that I
think about it.
So one of the professors there were like, hey, Rosie, why don't you, my friends call
me Rosie.
Hey, Rosie, why don't you come?
(29:03):
And I have been working in some legal research to do a bill about gender violence.
Come work with me.
I'm like, OK, sure.
So we were the academic part.
But the other part making the bill was the general inspector's office in Colombia.
(29:24):
And so I knew the general inspector, which is the head of the office, and he liked me.
We started working together very good.
He is what I owe that guy a lot.
He's he was so good to me and he taught me so much.
After that, I went to work with him.
Yeah.
And I was handling the comedy on human trafficking.
(29:47):
OK.
And I worked there for four years.
And then I came here to do my LLM in international arbitration.
Yeah.
And then we had met because you were doing your what was it?
Moot Court competition.
Yeah.
For your LLM.
Yeah.
And I was judging that because I hate to do nothing to.
So and one of the things I'm surprised with.
(30:07):
Yeah.
Because you have a lot of people who are talented in their areas.
Great writers, great speakers, great lawyers.
And then you put them on a stage and they don't want to give advice.
They don't want to.
They don't know how to mentor.
Maybe that's the thing is that they don't know how to mentor.
We keep a lot of information to ourselves and we're very negative about it.
(30:28):
So it's almost like we keep our secrets because if we reveal them, the other person might
have an opportunity, a leg up on us.
And we're always competing.
So yeah, I was lucky that I had met you and then I had met you afterwards at an event
that someone else had sent me to and we were like, hey, do you want to go to this event?
(30:51):
And I said, yeah, I'd even know that it existed.
And then I had seen you and some others from the Moot Court competition.
And I was like, the first thing I'll be honest, the first thing I saw in you, I was like,
why is she so chipper?
And you have a lot of beam of light and excitement despite like you now that knowing getting
to know you more and like you're working in sexual harassment and violence and children's
(31:14):
human rights and you're dealing in different areas and your family is in the political
spectrum.
What is your purpose in life that you have so much light in you?
And like, which I really hope that you do something with that and no one actually blows
out that candle.
That's a lot against you, but I'm glad that you still have that light.
(31:37):
And I'm fully taking advantage of it, I think, at this moment, because I have you on this
podcast.
This conversation will be very different on Zoom.
I really think so.
Totally.
You don't have that moment to like just relax.
No, and the internet freeze.
I don't know.
It's awful.
Yeah.
And you don't have the...
Oh my God, that's the best thing ever.
(31:57):
I mean, I should get a bigger soundboard for the different sounds.
You don't have that.
Eventually we will have like a DJ panel over here.
I think.
Don't encourage me.
What do you think?
Do you think that maybe most of the relationships we're building are fake?
(32:21):
I think so.
Because eventually we're going to be competing against each other.
I think in America we have this epidemic.
And that is many of us don't have that many friends.
You hear and you see people in their 30s and their 40s that are like, where do I make friends?
Where do I make parent friends?
(32:42):
Because you lose a lot of them after school.
And even those, you don't really know that they're like really truly good friendships.
And as you get older, it gets harder.
Maybe you were all in law school together, but maybe now the person who is sitting next
to you in law school is now a CEO of a financial company and it's completely different than
(33:03):
what you do.
So one of the things I always tell, and I usually tell a lot of stories when it comes
to dating because I think most people understand dating a little bit better.
But when you go on a date with someone, why is it that in America, one of the first questions
is what do you do?
How much do you make?
(33:24):
It's like.
No, you ask each other how much.
Now they do that.
Oh my God.
Now they do.
Now it becomes like this core question.
How much do you make?
Can you afford me?
No, this is this is what I'm coming with.
What do you bring to the table?
And we've become this culture with that that does that has these expectations, but your
(33:45):
real your core has become work.
Why?
And is it is that great?
Is that natural?
Does that make us more competitive than other countries that work is what we do?
Or is it one of those sad things that you should be able to go on a date and ask, you
know, what did you do on your 21st birthday?
(34:07):
What kind of hobbies do you like that make you feel happy?
Are there any things that you like to do that if you had more money to invest in, you would
do?
But because of that, you don't.
I love playing music.
I loved exploring different sounds and stuff, but you don't make money doing music.
(34:27):
And it's highly competitive.
There's not enough bands.
But I like the idea of just playing music, developing music for the idea of just for
myself and to capture in a way.
Do you play instruments?
I did.
I played the trombone.
And one day my teacher in high school, I was messing around with the drums.
(34:47):
I think there was a band.
It was a heavy metal band, by the way.
It was a heavy metal band.
And they were like, hey, can you help us with the drum beat?
I was like, I don't play the drums, but sure, I can help you because it sounded like you
guys were just like going really, really crazy with the music.
So I just started playing around.
And some of them, my high school teacher was like, by the way, we need someone to help
(35:08):
us in a musical.
We don't have a drummer.
And we were really short on musicians.
The first time I ever had heard a musical, this first musical was The Little Shop of
Horrors.
I don't know.
No, of course I do.
Yeah.
I've never seen it, but I had played it over and over and over again.
(35:30):
And then opening night, everything is going on.
But we were down in the pit.
So we were playing music and we're down in the pit and you can hear what's going on.
And I pretty much know the story in my head.
I would have stayed in music.
I would have loved to write or compose because one of my favorite things to do is to listen
to soundtracks.
And there's certain composers that are really, really great at capturing an essence, a sound
(35:56):
that you can feel that this is a sad moment.
You can feel that this is a happy without even watching.
And it really comes with because my family was really, really reserved.
They're really religious.
I think it was maybe nine or 10 or something when they had switched from Catholic to an
evangelical denomination.
(36:16):
And they were just like, no, no, the music is the devil or something.
Crazy things.
But at the time there was something that you're probably too young to notice, but it was the
Columbia music.
And they would send you CDs to your house for like a penny or something like that.
Six of them for a penny.
(36:38):
Really under the contract, you had to buy six more at full price.
I didn't know.
I was a kid.
I got the six free and one of the six was Jurassic Park because I really wanted to see
this movie and everybody had hyped it up.
And I thought, oh, okay.
But I didn't get the chance to watch it because I was forbidden to watch a movie.
But I would play that one over and over again because John Williams would do such a great
(37:02):
job at going from a theme of horror to a theme of like just heroic beauty to an action scene.
And it wasn't until college that I had separated from my family in that idea and religious
thoughts.
(37:23):
And I had said, I'm going to watch Jurassic Park for the first time.
I got a very large TV at the time, so I would watch it.
It was one of these big boxes.
They don't make them anymore.
These boxes, things that read.
The ones that had like a body behind.
They were super heavy.
You needed like a truck to carry.
I had to donate at some point.
You had to get like four guys to get the damn TV out.
(37:46):
But I watched Jurassic Park for the first time and I feel like I am brought to tears
because this entire thing, I had heard it, I kid you not, at least a hundred times from
beginning to end.
I heard it over and over again.
And I'm watching the movie and I'm seeing the music come to life.
I'm watching the scenes.
(38:06):
I could hear, I know what's coming up, but I'm watching it and I'm like, this is so great.
I wish that I had had all the money in the world at that time to say, oh, this is one
of my passions.
We don't talk about these things.
Is that really the person you are?
Like, oh, I'm a lawyer.
I'm a paralegal.
I'm a specialist in this or that.
(38:28):
Is that really who you are or is it I love playing football?
I'm an athlete.
I think we're interested.
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