September 26, 2024 • 40 mins
SPANISH BONUS EPISODE
En este episodio, le damos la bienvenida a un distinguido abogado colombiano, Julián Lozano, quien ofrece una visión profunda del derecho administrativo público y la política. Comparte su recorrido personal de justicia social, influenciado por sus experiencias trabajando con su hermano sordo en la pastelería familiar y aprendiendo lenguaje de señas. Únase a nosotros para una conversación inspiradora sobre derecho, familia y el profundo impacto de defender a las personas con discapacidades.
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In this episode, we welcome a distinguished Colombian attorney, Julian Lozano, who offers deep insights into public administrative law and politics. He shares his personal journey of social justice, influences by his experiences working with his deaf brother in the family pastry shop and learning sign language. Join us for an inspiring conversation about law, family, and the profound impact of advocating for those with disabilities.
Guest Info:
Julian Iozano, Colombian attorney (currently, at Levain Bakery in Georgetown)
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julianlzn
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Bloom X
(00:11):
We're back at the show, and this time in Spanish.
(00:41):
And it's always been a dream to have the podcast in English and in Spanish, because there are
many people who speak Spanish that sometimes don't have that luxury, that opportunity to
meet people who are in our community.
I am Kirby Ballena.
Hello everyone, how are you?
My name is Margarita Rosa, and we are here with our guest, Julián Luzano, Colombian
(01:05):
lawyer who is currently living in DC, and we want him to tell us a little bit about
his life, his experience, his dreams, and more or less what he's up to.
And before he talks, we'll give the lieutenant an opportunity.
We didn't even know you were coming.
I don't think you knew you were coming.
A total change of plans.
(01:25):
It's the magic of Margarita Rosa.
Don't look at her directly because sometimes she has that power.
That's her intimacy.
Not at all.
But you live in Washington and you've been living in Washington for about three years.
In Washington, yes, I've been there for about two or three years.
My first year I was in Baltimore, but I've been in this area for the last few years of
(01:47):
my life.
Were you in Baltimore to study?
No, I've been living there for a year.
And what do you like more about Baltimore than Washington?
Well, I have feelings found, really.
I feel that...
There is a lot of good food in Baltimore too.
Well, they have good crabs.
Crab, yes.
Yes.
And they also have a very strong beer culture and I feel that it is that plus the musical
(02:12):
culture like rock, pop and punk that they have there is quite strong.
So I think that's what catches me in that city.
Different things to offer.
Not only like the bad reputation that has been growing around that city.
I feel that you have to give it the opportunity to know it, really.
And how did you find yourself here in Washington?
Yes, it was precisely a job offer that made me move to D.C., precisely something completely
(02:35):
different.
I'm not a lawyer at the moment.
I'm doing other activities, precisely.
And then I came to D.C. also with the opportunity of... like with an idealization that D.C.
is a very diplomatic city, very political and quite... I don't know if to say it as
legal.
Yes.
(02:56):
And then I took the offer to try to combine certain things.
And you are a Colombian lawyer with political interests.
Yes, more or less.
I have throughout my life, I have had several approaches to politics since I was a child
to what political campaigns were doing and voluntarily I attended the events, I worked
(03:17):
for campaigns and that was forming a political character, a love for politics, political
science and public administration and well, I also grew up with a different concept because
usually people kind of get bored with politics, precisely thinking that politics is corruption,
that they are always the same.
So I also grew up with a phrase that marked me a lot and it is if one does not get into
(03:40):
politics, politics gets into one.
So it was like the idea of always trying to involve politics in everything I do.
I like that phrase.
The truth is that I believe that not only that if one does not get into politics, it gets
into one, but if one does not get into politics and is criticized, then nothing will really
change because there is no one who is willing to change it.
(04:03):
Completely.
So Juli, how do you see your future?
Do you see yourself here in the United States?
Do you see yourself returning to Colombia, perhaps getting a little more into politics?
Or...
Well, let's see, it's a question.
I feel that, as I was saying right now behind the microphone, I have learned to embrace
uncertainty.
Let's say that in some part of my life I tried to keep everything planned and seeing
(04:25):
that things did not follow the points or the steps as I had thought, it kind of generated
some frustration.
So at this point in my life it's like I'm open to new experiences, to new paths,
to new countries, to new professions, to new tasks, because I feel that is what we
end up doing in the end.
We are many things, we are not just a situation or a circumstance.
(04:48):
So at this point I see myself in DC, I am comfortable, I am fine, I am creating a life
here, but I am still open to any circumstances.
Have you always wanted to be a lawyer?
No, that's the funniest thing too.
I just wanted to be a politician, well, a political scientist, but I ended up studying laws.
(05:12):
But what does it mean to be a politician?
To help people, to work in the government...
Exactly, to help people, it's like my top.
Well, and a little bit of public policies, right?
You told me you liked it.
Yes, I mean, it's like I was saying, throughout my childhood I participated in different organizations,
profit synonyms, in youth groups, trying to help the community and I had first hand
(05:36):
that contact with vulnerable people, which I find absurd that in such a rich society
or that there are so many things, there are people who are going through needs, precisely
that personal need to want to help a better society exist.
So I saw that politics is a very flexible tool to be able to provide
(05:59):
better opportunities for all communities and people in general.
That is precisely why after I graduated as a lawyer, which was not what I had thought,
when I received my degree, I decided to become an advisor to mayors, politicians precisely,
to be able to guarantee through the system that if it can be helped or at least
(06:22):
guarantee their fundamental rights to those people that the system itself has a little
neglected, a little forgotten.
And your family, your parents, were they okay with wanting to be laws or did you want to do
something else, a musician, singer?
Well, the truth is, I think my parents always supported me in any decision that I would have
wanted to make, but in effect it did generate that pride in showing that son, a lawyer.
(06:49):
That is, he is a lawyer from a university, he is a lawyer, he is currently working with mayors,
he is doing this and still these laws continue to present me as the son of a lawyer.
I have no problem, whenever they are proud, I am proud too.
My mom always has her stories here saying that we represent Peru, we represent Colombia,
(07:13):
in certain cases.
I remember that while I was studying, my mom and my dad and also my grandparents were like,
no, my grandson, my son is a lawyer, it can't be that problem that he solves.
And I was like, oh my God.
And one day solving the problems, everyone says, he doesn't know who is who.
Has it been difficult for you to enter this career?
(07:34):
It seems that you have had a lot of change in your life, has it been difficult to enter
as a lawyer and now you are here?
Yes, it was a bit difficult for me, as the love of the law, because when I chose the
career, I was going through a stage of adolescence, let's say, in which one wants to be against
(07:59):
the law and adolescence at 18.
I have a repressed adolescence.
No, you're lying, but yes, as in that early adulthood, in which I wanted to change the
world, eat the world, part of everything, and I remember that my first law introduction
class, Monday at 8 in the morning, the first thing the teacher told me was, this career
(08:22):
is the most conservative, because you have to know that here it is not trying to change
the world, but applying the laws so that the world works.
And that changed the world for me once.
I said, no, why not go out?
Why not change another way?
Because in the last class I also took it as a challenge to want, although the
(08:44):
world cannot be changed completely, at least change that perspective of the laws.
So that plus what I was telling you about the politics of wanting to change the world
from politics, I saw an option or a path in which through the laws, or rather,
if one gets into the system, be able to change the system from within.
It's something poetic, maybe, but.
(09:06):
And well, how do you feel about it today?
Do you still want to change the world?
Yes, yes, I always think that if I wanted to change the world, and it is something that I have
in mind, at least change the world to a significant group of people who do want it.
Or that they do need it, technically.
But I also learned to do it from different angles, not necessarily from the right,
(09:30):
as I told you right now.
I also feel that there are many ways to get to the goal that we have in the last
as people.
And let's say in this world, in this moment of my life, I feel that I have helped
many Colombians who have arrived, precisely that I do not know, but someone
recommends my name and in a certain way we try to locate them, help them.
(09:54):
It's not the laws, but it's the resources I have in my hand.
Like job offers, friends who are renting houses, rooms, something like that.
So in that way I feel that we can make a world less hostile to people.
Someone who arrives from Colombia for the first time in the United States looks at it the same way.
(10:15):
There is a lot of cultural change. Let's say I just got off the plane and I arrive in the United States.
People are the same, affectionate, kind.
I think that question will also be asked to Rosy, right?
Yes.
I want you to tell us what you think, Rosy, about it.
I finished interviewing.
I think that cultural change is a lot.
(10:39):
One being in Colombia, like us, we have the same look towards the United States.
We try to incorporate many things from American culture to Colombian culture.
One says, no, change will not be so abrupt.
But really, you, to start with the language, you have to know it, you have to learn it,
you have to be willing to speak it, because you don't come here like that.
(11:05):
That, on the one hand, on the other hand, is food. Food gives us strength.
It's very difficult, right?
Well, let's see, we are the second most biodiverse country in the world.
So we have everything.
We are a very rich country, we are a country with a lot of nature, everything very organic.
Totally.
Our resources are first-hand.
(11:29):
So that gives us strength.
And also the fact that, even if the people here are very kind,
but it's just that there we are, I think we all consider ourselves as a family.
When one considers himself a family, it is easier to create problems for him.
Or give him advice, or help him with a formula, or tell him, look, here you must live, or here I recommend you.
(11:53):
But here, arriving in the United States, it's a little different.
You have to convince someone to do something for their own good.
And how do you see that situation?
Trying to work in the United States, knowing that in Colombia sometimes it is a little easier.
(12:14):
Because we are all family.
Well, what you say is very true. We are all family.
But yes, it is very true, because here, although people are kind, as Rosy says,
people here tell you how the tools are there.
Like, look, how do you say it?
The manual, read the manual and let me pass.
Exactly. Don't take so much time, please.
(12:37):
While we are like, ok, if this doesn't work that way, let's try to do it this way.
But it's like the time we take to sit down with people, explain the circumstances,
explain how the new reality is and be able to help them make it very clear
the task they have to do or the help they want to be offered.
(13:00):
So, yes, the culture of this country is a bit shocked with the culture we are used to.
But in the end, I think it's the price we know we are willing to pay
because we are leaving our comfort zone, precisely.
So, coming here are challenges, but we also have to come with a very receptive mind
(13:21):
to be able to capture all the opportunities that may be presented to us.
We all have a way of how we want to eat in the world.
And for my wife, during the pandemic, we had a problem where my daughter had eczema
or she couldn't eat certain foods and she started learning to cook.
(13:43):
More than anything else, she started making pastry, cookies, things like that.
Trying to find a recipe that works for my daughter,
that she can eat cookies, pastries, things that didn't have gluten,
that didn't have soy, that didn't have oils, and that was her way of changing the world.
Nowadays, would you have another gift outside of the laws of changing the world?
(14:06):
Because I see that you are working now in...
It was a pastry shop, yes, in a bakery.
So, that's just to learn.
No, look, that question is quite interesting too.
My older brother, he is deaf, and throughout my childhood,
I had to learn or adapt my world to his world.
(14:27):
Learning sign language, trying to help him with his homework,
trying to help him make friends, participate in sports with him.
And it was very frustrating for me and for my family, and indeed for him.
He was younger.
He is older.
Yes.
You as a younger brother, helping him.
Exactly.
Yes, it was like a relationship of friends, technically,
(14:50):
because the idea was to help him all the time,
but ultimately, I think he was the one who helped me the most,
I mean, the one who taught me the most.
Because when he tried to enter a university,
we started to see many more problems.
The fact that the universities in Colombia, at the time,
at that time, didn't have that inclusion, that sign language,
(15:13):
that sign language, or didn't have instruments to get to that type of community.
So it was something frustrating,
which my brother gave up on a professional career,
but it was also frustrating to see that the same society was trying to fix it.
So in that order of ideas, my mother decided to organize a foundation,
(15:35):
which is for which my family, we dedicated a little time,
and it was a bakery, precisely.
And I really liked how he focused it.
In fact, the bakery is called Fundación Pan de Amor,
and the motto is, done with five senses.
So what does it consist of?
People with diverse skills,
which is very difficult for them to get a job,
(15:58):
that they employ them precisely because the employees are afraid of them,
the fact that something may happen to them, that they have to pay a security,
a policy, or anything, they don't hire them precisely.
So what we do with the foundation is that people with diverse skills
can go develop their talents and feel useful from them,
because many times they have that burden of feeling like a burden,
(16:24):
a burden of redundancy for their family.
So when one visits the foundation,
we find people with Down syndrome, blind people,
people with muscular atrophy, deaf people, making bread, and selling the bread.
That enriches them a lot, and in effect, it generates a personal satisfaction for us,
(16:46):
and knowing that we are changing the world for other people,
and apart from that, enriching ourselves as people.
So thanks to that, I also had to take those bakery courses with my brother,
and see how the foundation grew, and how it helped him,
because in effect it was my obligation to go every day to attend that bakery in Colombia.
It helped me develop certain skills with the bakery, with the bakery.
(17:09):
And for things of life, I ended up here in Washington with a job offer in a bakery.
And also...
Is it in Georgetown?
Yes, it is. It is currently in Georgetown, but it is a bakery in New York,
and it has like, I don't know, five or six cities at the moment.
And right there I am developing something for what I thought I would least do,
(17:31):
which is the bakery, precisely.
So, that plus the experience that my mom forced me to take when managing that bakery in Colombia,
at that time she offered me a job offer here in Washington, which is to manage a bakery.
I have learned a lot, I think I learn something new every day from all the people I work with.
(17:52):
But also, if we want to see it from a point like the change of the world since COVID,
it helped me a lot to reinvent myself.
It helped me a lot to, as I was saying, open my perspectives and be open to any possibility, any offer.
And it's just the fact of being able to embrace the uncertainty.
I feel like life itself is settling down, and ultimately I'm working for a bakery, as he was saying.
(18:17):
It's great to grow with someone who doesn't have the same skills as you,
knowing that sometimes they suffer a difficulty and it's not fair.
My mom had epilepsy and sometimes she couldn't drive, we were always in a bus,
and I was always paying attention in case of an attack.
(18:39):
And you get to see it from a point of view, because when you want to apply for a job,
you're getting asked to drive.
And then, for every little thing, you have to explain, well, I can't drive for this reason.
And certain small things can be a big thing for a person.
(19:02):
In fact, one of the skills that my bosses like the most is the fact that we receive people with reduced audition,
and I'm the one they ask to attend to, not you, because you're the one who knows sign language.
And it's nice because when they realize that the same bakery is inclusive,
they end up bringing more people and they feel special and want to take pictures with more family.
(19:28):
Exactly, we end up being more fraternal.
I think inclusion is super important.
I'll tell you a fun fact, I'm learning sign language right now.
I was inspired by Juli's story because he had already told me about it in another video,
and also because inclusion is very popular nowadays,
(19:49):
but not just in the verbal language, but in the non-verbal.
It's important that one can communicate with all people.
So, it's important that, not having those limitations,
but maybe taking the initiative to complement our skills and have a greater relationship with everyone.
(20:14):
Because that's the real inclusion, that we are willing to put our grain of sand
to generate more tolerance, to teach people that we are all part of the community,
and we all must be heard.
Yes.
So, I think it's super interesting. Juli, where is the bakery?
(20:35):
They are currently in San Gil.
Because the next one is to go visit the bakery.
Yes, they are in San Gil, precisely, and they work for the communities in the San Gil area,
the towns near San Gil, in Colombia, clearly.
San Gil is a municipality in Bucaramanga.
In Santander, yes, about two or three hours from Bucaramanga.
(20:57):
What is the capital of Santander?
Exactly, so that's where I was born and where I grew up, technically.
And it's for the community in which the foundation is working,
for the San Gil community and its surroundings.
So, it's excellent, wonderful, you can get to know the experience,
and clearly you can help not only those people who are working there, but also their families.
(21:22):
Because also, when families see that these people are in another world,
they feel better, that will alleviate the burden of the families
that, in effect, end up carrying a heavy burden,
because it's the fact of keeping the high spirits of a family that, ultimately, doesn't feel like...
(21:44):
Of course, they feel productive within society and that helps them.
Exactly, that's the idea.
It's an interesting topic, you know, because education in Colombia
still needs to improve a lot in terms of inclusion.
We are, even as universities are adapted,
not only for people who suffer from disorder disabilities,
(22:05):
but also those who have reduced mobility.
So, there are universities that are a whole building and don't have an elevator.
So, if people have some difficulty walking or moving, how will they get to class?
In Colombia, there are universities that are for people who can't listen.
I don't remember the name at the moment, but it was only in Bogotá.
(22:28):
So, to that, which is very good, add the idea that a family,
although it has the fear of the world it will face,
let's say, in this case, my brother, with his reduced hearing,
sending him to a capital that is much more chaotic,
and besides, we come from a very small town,
so it's a very difficult idea to accept.
(22:49):
So, that, and besides, the high costs are also a limitation for the family.
But I think that institutions in Colombia are working on that right now,
not only universities, because also, in fact, my brother,
at the moment, does have the Panadería project,
but he's a little bit on the side,
(23:10):
because he was presented an opportunity to be a teacher of sign language
in some public schools in the region.
So, he's from town to town, which is easier for us too,
but it's also much easier for him to teach all primary and secondary school students
this language, so that, in effect, it's more inclusive.
(23:32):
Yes, good idea. I think that would help a lot of people,
because sometimes one doesn't know who one can communicate with,
and one never knows when one needs help.
Yes, exactly.
There was a time when I was drinking with a girl,
and at one point I thought we could communicate for a while,
(23:53):
so I would pass her phone and she would write,
and we would spend a while like that,
but after almost a month she said that I had to learn,
or else I was bothering her a lot.
I didn't have a place to take classes.
Nowadays I think you can do it online or something else,
but at that time...
Yes, online. I'm online.
(24:15):
You're online.
Yes, yes.
I'll send you later.
Yes, well, that was the girl, but...
But anyway, you never know when.
Hey, but it's interesting that your brother is from town to town,
because it's true, Colombia has been working a lot on the issue of inclusive education,
but that is more seen in big cities,
and it's a big country that we need to reach regions.
(24:39):
Yes, let's say that, going back to the topic from the beginning,
because this podcast gave a very interesting twist,
but precisely in that kind of thing is what I like to focus on
when we talk about public policies and how I focused my career,
because although there may be laws in Colombia that talk about inclusion
(25:00):
and that force institutions to do inclusion tasks,
the reality is that it's completely different.
And as Colombia, despite being a supposedly decentralized state,
focuses its power only on Bogotá and the capitals,
Bogotá, Medellín, Bucaramanga, Barranquilla perhaps,
is like extremely focused on those cities,
and then the people end up leaving aside,
(25:23):
and it turns out that people also live in the towns,
Colombians also live, people who contribute with taxes,
and they are also votes in the last place.
So, it sounds ugly, but it's a reality, let's say, of Colombian politics.
So, how I try to apply things is precisely by advising mayors
so that through a development plan, through a public policy,
(25:47):
it can be guaranteed that the resources are going to be invested in the way it should be,
and this type of projects or this type of laws can be applied.
And lastly, if the mayor or if he wanted to decline that public policy,
he knows that he's going to face sanctions,
so with a more serious threat on top of them,
(26:08):
they're going to say, okay, we have to do it.
And thanks to the fact that the system is shaped a little,
it can be guaranteed that, in effect,
what was originally thought to be inclusion for this case is fulfilled,
or we also handle different issues,
gender issues, my mom is dedicated to that,
so I've also learned a lot of things,
(26:30):
fields issues, independently the issue,
what is sought is precisely that laws are applied
and public policies are made effective,
that the national government tries to implement in abandoned peoples or territories of the country.
If you had ambitions to enter, as well as to be mayor or to be political in Congress or something like that,
(26:56):
because sometimes you can make a change from within.
It has always caught my attention to be that figure, the one who puts the face, let's say,
but we all know that behind that person there is a system, there is a team,
so many times the team is heard more,
and it is the team that ends up making the decision.
(27:19):
The person who puts the face, the candidate, the politician as such, is the one who sacrifices people,
while the advisors are the ones who can shape the situation,
but they are not so exposed to public speech.
So precisely, at this time I see myself more as an advisor,
being behind the scenes,
but in effect, I think that, I don't know,
(27:42):
all of us who are in this environment, we do have an internal policy,
and we all dream of suddenly being presidents of the country,
but it is already a dream, let's say, very there.
At the moment what we want is to try to understand the system and do things right.
I think I had that dream for a week when I was five years old, and then I didn't.
(28:05):
Yes, yes, it is that after one analyzes the situation, one says,
the person who puts the face is the one they sacrifice.
And many times it is not worth it, because one can have the intentions.
And sometimes it does not depend on the country,
it can be in Colombia, there are problems, but also here in the United States,
we also have our problems that are very rare.
Yes, and trying to make people happy is very difficult, because...
(28:28):
Yes, nice.
Exactly.
Nobody is happy all the time.
Exactly.
What are your next steps, where do you think you will see,
is there something that you promote, are you writing a book?
Let's say that when I got here, adapting and the whole process, it took a while.
So, already at this time, I consider that I am a little more prepared
(28:51):
and more confident to be able to take a next step in my professional career,
try to do some study in public policies or public administration, precisely,
and be able to escalate professionally.
I mean, I'm clearly very grateful with the bakery, with the bakery,
but I also have it clear that what I want is to change the world in a certain way,
(29:14):
and I am clear that it will be from public administration.
Now, for someone who is listening today and does not know what public administration is,
that is, he is not a lawyer, he does not understand what a lawyer does in that field.
Yes, precisely, as an example, let's say what they did in Colombia, precisely,
(29:35):
is taking the laws that already exist and trying to implement them
through public administration, that is, through the municipalities,
from townships, creating more focused public policies,
that is, not at a national level because it is something already quite large,
(29:57):
quite difficult to control, but if to manage through organizations
that are usually the ones who work on this,
issues of people with street conditions or drug addiction,
issues of social inclusion, precisely, of women and gender.
So, how can you do it?
(30:19):
Analyzing the laws that this country already has,
trying to create a realistic public policy,
how it is going to be implemented, which community it is going to look for,
in which it is going to focus, what is the budget and how that budget is going to be invested,
that is, make an investment plan, a spending plan,
a clear calendar of how many visits or what are the projects,
(30:41):
in which days this project is going to be executed,
and in this way, to contribute that grain of sand to be able to change it.
It sounds like a lot of work, it is not something that a single person can do.
Yes, indeed.
We are talking about budgets, all kinds of numbers,
knowing who can organize.
(31:03):
Of course, also with an interdisciplinary team.
Totally, with accountants, lawyers, public administrators, financial engineers,
if necessary, sociologists, it must be a group of qualified professionals,
precisely, and psychologists,
to be able to present the project, that everyone should take into account what the goal is,
(31:25):
and from there, the tasks begin to be divided.
To sleep, to the mayor, and you have to vote for this.
Exactly, exactly.
And that's the other thing, taking the mayors,
as they make many proposals in the air,
what is sought is, or what I seek, is that in effect,
all that he said becomes reality.
Not just to win votes, to win people,
(31:48):
but it really is fulfilled, it is guaranteed that it can be fulfilled.
You also have to work with people with advertising,
but it is paid. Yes, in effect, because people will not always understand them.
Exactly, you have to know how to communicate things,
what we are talking about right now, communication is very important,
so people who help us transmit the final message,
what is sought, and what was achieved, or how was the change,
(32:11):
how was the transformation, how resources were implemented,
so that there is transparency, if there is transparency, there is confidence.
Fuli, and any anecdote you have with some mayor that you can tell us,
that they have marked you?
Ok, I have one, well I have many,
at this time I came to mind with an mayor,
(32:32):
a fairly small town in Santander,
but a very beautiful town, it was called Chima, Santander.
He was the first one who believed in me, let's say,
I mean, after taking my diploma, without experience, he said,
ready, you are talking to me about this, he convinced me, let's do it.
I want a new team, I want a team,
that is, let's oxygenate this town, get out of the tradition,
from the political clans, so I said, of course, let's do it.
(32:55):
So we got on the project, and with this mayor,
he was the one who demanded me the most,
but precisely because it was with whom we always went to all the villages,
to all the municipalities of the municipality,
it took me two months perfectly,
traveling by train, traveling, sometimes getting off the truck,
(33:16):
with the equipment on our backs, that is, with the bags,
and then going up a mountain for an hour,
to the sun's rays, to be able to reach that person
who lived in the last corner of the municipality,
simply to hear what their needs were,
and many times it wasn't like, build me a road,
I mean, you saw that I had to go up an hour every day,
on foot, to the sun's rays, to my house,
(33:38):
I don't want the road, I just want them to fix my school,
to guarantee that my children will have a good education,
they will have a good education, they will be able to take care of little things.
And lastly, that marked me, because the community understands
that ultimately the municipality is not the one who comes to solve things,
which is what politicians often say,
I can't solve that, there's no money for that, I don't know what...
(34:00):
but if we change little things, for example,
by adapting a good educational institution to that community,
the family will feel safer that the children go to classes
without a roof falling on them, a wall coming on them,
without falling into a ravine.
So with that, the family will feel better,
with a higher quality of life,
and they will be able to perform their activities
(34:21):
and their economic development in a better way.
That is reflected in the numbers of the municipality,
better tax collection, good perception of the administration,
of the municipality, or different things.
So I think that marked me a lot when I got to know myself,
I think that 80% of the population of that municipality,
(34:43):
hugging all the people, as a lawyer,
people saw me coming down from the horses sometimes,
and they told me, oh, engineer, come and have this soup, come,
they are very dear, so...
Exactly.
Let's have the party.
Exactly, so...
More or less like that, they saw us arrive at the caravan,
like the mayor of the professional team,
(35:07):
and all of a sudden, the sound equipment was on,
the pots were on, they started to cook,
and seeing that the administration came out of the office,
in the municipal headquarters,
and they went to the most remote corner of the municipality,
where no one entered,
that made them feel included in the community.
And that seemed great to me,
(35:29):
and I think it's a task that all the leaders should do,
govern from all over the territory, not from an office.
So...
Of course, because that environment allows you to know the reality...
Totally.
...of the territory you are governing.
Of course, they told us, for example,
that the municipalities were not going there
simply because there was no road,
(35:51):
so they couldn't get there by car.
And then the mayors had the perception
that what that community needed was a road,
for which they probably had no budget,
but it turns out that they didn't,
they wanted to go to something completely different,
and they said, we have lived our whole lives
with this type of road,
we are already adapting.
What we want is that we focus on solving this first,
(36:12):
or on these housing solutions.
It turns out that this person lives in extreme poverty,
so being able to provide a decent housing
through the community,
so I think that taught me a lot
about administration and politics in the end,
being with people.
After that, we expanded projects with that mayor for two years,
(36:33):
and the truth is that I have fallen in love with that task,
of working with the community,
of listening to the community,
of embracing the community,
of living within the community all the time,
knowing it, identifying with the problems.
Yes, because there are other people who would say,
we better focus on the majority,
and because they don't want to worry about the person
(36:54):
who takes an hour to get there,
but as you said,
what he wanted was not the road,
what he wanted was something different,
and not everyone wants what one thinks they want.
Exactly, the fact of listening to the person,
knowing how to communicate the needs is fundamental.
So that also marked me a lot,
(37:15):
because in the end, I saw the professional project
that I had at that time from an office in Bucaramanga,
and to advise through calls, video calls,
or emails to the mayors of the tasks I had to do,
and that is a completely different reality.
From Bucaramanga to an office with air conditioning
on an eighth floor, with paved roads,
(37:37):
all the services included,
for me everything is fine in that town,
until the moment I went to the town and met the town,
and I said, this is another reality,
and my thing is to come to meet the people,
and listen to the anecdotes, the needs,
and understand that we are not only one thing,
but we are a group of many anecdotes,
(38:00):
of many circumstances, and of many realities.
And that was what most marked me.
I am fascinated that you have that passion for people,
for that job, because it is more difficult
to do that kind of work when you really don't care.
Yes.
And I believe that when you know it,
you take it from the heart, you do it better.
And something that happened, something curious,
(38:22):
is that the town, as such, the municipality of Chima,
before that administration in which I worked,
was one of the most, or let's say,
the most prominent in terms of the qualifications
of the tax return,
of the way in which they applied the development plan,
and that the resources and the whole story were being followed.
(38:43):
But after that administration,
thanks to the task of all the secretaries
who had the same disposition, the municipality,
and well, in part of the goals that we set for them,
it was easy to see how they were scaling
in the qualification that makes them,
I think it is every year, the same national government.
So it was quite gratifying to see
that in numbers, they simply rose quite a few steps.
(39:07):
It is quite cool, quite gratifying to see
that when one does things out of passion,
really, you do see some interesting results
and that they change lives, I think.
At least mine changed.
It seems super interesting to me.
The truth is that I also love working in regions.
When I had the opportunity in Colombia
(39:28):
to visit municipalities,
to travel the streets,
that was super, super cool.
And working with historically rejected communities
or historically discriminated communities,
I found it very interesting.
How good that there are people like you
willing to change the world still.
And thank you for sharing your story.
(39:50):
Yes, thank you very much.
Thank you for the invitation.
Share with others.
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much for having me.
(40:26):
Thank you.
Bloom X
(00:11):
We're back at the show, and this time in Spanish.
(00:41):
And it's always been a dream to have the podcast in English and in Spanish, because there are
many people who speak Spanish that sometimes don't have that luxury, that opportunity to
meet people who are in our community.
I am Kirby Ballena.
Hello everyone, how are you?
My name is Margarita Rosa, and we are here with our guest, Julián Luzano, Colombian
(01:05):
lawyer who is currently living in DC, and we want him to tell us a little bit about
his life, his experience, his dreams, and more or less what he's up to.
And before he talks, we'll give the lieutenant an opportunity.
We didn't even know you were coming.
I don't think you knew you were coming.
A total change of plans.
(01:25):
It's the magic of Margarita Rosa.
Don't look at her directly because sometimes she has that power.
That's her intimacy.
Not at all.
But you live in Washington and you've been living in Washington for about three years.
In Washington, yes, I've been there for about two or three years.
My first year I was in Baltimore, but I've been in this area for the last few years of
(01:47):
my life.
Were you in Baltimore to study?
No, I've been living there for a year.
And what do you like more about Baltimore than Washington?
Well, I have feelings found, really.
I feel that...
There is a lot of good food in Baltimore too.
Well, they have good crabs.
Crab, yes.
Yes.
And they also have a very strong beer culture and I feel that it is that plus the musical
(02:12):
culture like rock, pop and punk that they have there is quite strong.
So I think that's what catches me in that city.
Different things to offer.
Not only like the bad reputation that has been growing around that city.
I feel that you have to give it the opportunity to know it, really.
And how did you find yourself here in Washington?
Yes, it was precisely a job offer that made me move to D.C., precisely something completely
(02:35):
different.
I'm not a lawyer at the moment.
I'm doing other activities, precisely.
And then I came to D.C. also with the opportunity of... like with an idealization that D.C.
is a very diplomatic city, very political and quite... I don't know if to say it as
legal.
Yes.
(02:56):
And then I took the offer to try to combine certain things.
And you are a Colombian lawyer with political interests.
Yes, more or less.
I have throughout my life, I have had several approaches to politics since I was a child
to what political campaigns were doing and voluntarily I attended the events, I worked
(03:17):
for campaigns and that was forming a political character, a love for politics, political
science and public administration and well, I also grew up with a different concept because
usually people kind of get bored with politics, precisely thinking that politics is corruption,
that they are always the same.
So I also grew up with a phrase that marked me a lot and it is if one does not get into
(03:40):
politics, politics gets into one.
So it was like the idea of always trying to involve politics in everything I do.
I like that phrase.
The truth is that I believe that not only that if one does not get into politics, it gets
into one, but if one does not get into politics and is criticized, then nothing will really
change because there is no one who is willing to change it.
(04:03):
Completely.
So Juli, how do you see your future?
Do you see yourself here in the United States?
Do you see yourself returning to Colombia, perhaps getting a little more into politics?
Or...
Well, let's see, it's a question.
I feel that, as I was saying right now behind the microphone, I have learned to embrace
uncertainty.
Let's say that in some part of my life I tried to keep everything planned and seeing
(04:25):
that things did not follow the points or the steps as I had thought, it kind of generated
some frustration.
So at this point in my life it's like I'm open to new experiences, to new paths,
to new countries, to new professions, to new tasks, because I feel that is what we
end up doing in the end.
We are many things, we are not just a situation or a circumstance.
(04:48):
So at this point I see myself in DC, I am comfortable, I am fine, I am creating a life
here, but I am still open to any circumstances.
Have you always wanted to be a lawyer?
No, that's the funniest thing too.
I just wanted to be a politician, well, a political scientist, but I ended up studying laws.
(05:12):
But what does it mean to be a politician?
To help people, to work in the government...
Exactly, to help people, it's like my top.
Well, and a little bit of public policies, right?
You told me you liked it.
Yes, I mean, it's like I was saying, throughout my childhood I participated in different organizations,
profit synonyms, in youth groups, trying to help the community and I had first hand
(05:36):
that contact with vulnerable people, which I find absurd that in such a rich society
or that there are so many things, there are people who are going through needs, precisely
that personal need to want to help a better society exist.
So I saw that politics is a very flexible tool to be able to provide
(05:59):
better opportunities for all communities and people in general.
That is precisely why after I graduated as a lawyer, which was not what I had thought,
when I received my degree, I decided to become an advisor to mayors, politicians precisely,
to be able to guarantee through the system that if it can be helped or at least
(06:22):
guarantee their fundamental rights to those people that the system itself has a little
neglected, a little forgotten.
And your family, your parents, were they okay with wanting to be laws or did you want to do
something else, a musician, singer?
Well, the truth is, I think my parents always supported me in any decision that I would have
wanted to make, but in effect it did generate that pride in showing that son, a lawyer.
(06:49):
That is, he is a lawyer from a university, he is a lawyer, he is currently working with mayors,
he is doing this and still these laws continue to present me as the son of a lawyer.
I have no problem, whenever they are proud, I am proud too.
My mom always has her stories here saying that we represent Peru, we represent Colombia,
(07:13):
in certain cases.
I remember that while I was studying, my mom and my dad and also my grandparents were like,
no, my grandson, my son is a lawyer, it can't be that problem that he solves.
And I was like, oh my God.
And one day solving the problems, everyone says, he doesn't know who is who.
Has it been difficult for you to enter this career?
(07:34):
It seems that you have had a lot of change in your life, has it been difficult to enter
as a lawyer and now you are here?
Yes, it was a bit difficult for me, as the love of the law, because when I chose the
career, I was going through a stage of adolescence, let's say, in which one wants to be against
(07:59):
the law and adolescence at 18.
I have a repressed adolescence.
No, you're lying, but yes, as in that early adulthood, in which I wanted to change the
world, eat the world, part of everything, and I remember that my first law introduction
class, Monday at 8 in the morning, the first thing the teacher told me was, this career
(08:22):
is the most conservative, because you have to know that here it is not trying to change
the world, but applying the laws so that the world works.
And that changed the world for me once.
I said, no, why not go out?
Why not change another way?
Because in the last class I also took it as a challenge to want, although the
(08:44):
world cannot be changed completely, at least change that perspective of the laws.
So that plus what I was telling you about the politics of wanting to change the world
from politics, I saw an option or a path in which through the laws, or rather,
if one gets into the system, be able to change the system from within.
It's something poetic, maybe, but.
(09:06):
And well, how do you feel about it today?
Do you still want to change the world?
Yes, yes, I always think that if I wanted to change the world, and it is something that I have
in mind, at least change the world to a significant group of people who do want it.
Or that they do need it, technically.
But I also learned to do it from different angles, not necessarily from the right,
(09:30):
as I told you right now.
I also feel that there are many ways to get to the goal that we have in the last
as people.
And let's say in this world, in this moment of my life, I feel that I have helped
many Colombians who have arrived, precisely that I do not know, but someone
recommends my name and in a certain way we try to locate them, help them.
(09:54):
It's not the laws, but it's the resources I have in my hand.
Like job offers, friends who are renting houses, rooms, something like that.
So in that way I feel that we can make a world less hostile to people.
Someone who arrives from Colombia for the first time in the United States looks at it the same way.
(10:15):
There is a lot of cultural change. Let's say I just got off the plane and I arrive in the United States.
People are the same, affectionate, kind.
I think that question will also be asked to Rosy, right?
Yes.
I want you to tell us what you think, Rosy, about it.
I finished interviewing.
I think that cultural change is a lot.
(10:39):
One being in Colombia, like us, we have the same look towards the United States.
We try to incorporate many things from American culture to Colombian culture.
One says, no, change will not be so abrupt.
But really, you, to start with the language, you have to know it, you have to learn it,
you have to be willing to speak it, because you don't come here like that.
(11:05):
That, on the one hand, on the other hand, is food. Food gives us strength.
It's very difficult, right?
Well, let's see, we are the second most biodiverse country in the world.
So we have everything.
We are a very rich country, we are a country with a lot of nature, everything very organic.
Totally.
Our resources are first-hand.
(11:29):
So that gives us strength.
And also the fact that, even if the people here are very kind,
but it's just that there we are, I think we all consider ourselves as a family.
When one considers himself a family, it is easier to create problems for him.
Or give him advice, or help him with a formula, or tell him, look, here you must live, or here I recommend you.
(11:53):
But here, arriving in the United States, it's a little different.
You have to convince someone to do something for their own good.
And how do you see that situation?
Trying to work in the United States, knowing that in Colombia sometimes it is a little easier.
(12:14):
Because we are all family.
Well, what you say is very true. We are all family.
But yes, it is very true, because here, although people are kind, as Rosy says,
people here tell you how the tools are there.
Like, look, how do you say it?
The manual, read the manual and let me pass.
Exactly. Don't take so much time, please.
(12:37):
While we are like, ok, if this doesn't work that way, let's try to do it this way.
But it's like the time we take to sit down with people, explain the circumstances,
explain how the new reality is and be able to help them make it very clear
the task they have to do or the help they want to be offered.
(13:00):
So, yes, the culture of this country is a bit shocked with the culture we are used to.
But in the end, I think it's the price we know we are willing to pay
because we are leaving our comfort zone, precisely.
So, coming here are challenges, but we also have to come with a very receptive mind
(13:21):
to be able to capture all the opportunities that may be presented to us.
We all have a way of how we want to eat in the world.
And for my wife, during the pandemic, we had a problem where my daughter had eczema
or she couldn't eat certain foods and she started learning to cook.
(13:43):
More than anything else, she started making pastry, cookies, things like that.
Trying to find a recipe that works for my daughter,
that she can eat cookies, pastries, things that didn't have gluten,
that didn't have soy, that didn't have oils, and that was her way of changing the world.
Nowadays, would you have another gift outside of the laws of changing the world?
(14:06):
Because I see that you are working now in...
It was a pastry shop, yes, in a bakery.
So, that's just to learn.
No, look, that question is quite interesting too.
My older brother, he is deaf, and throughout my childhood,
I had to learn or adapt my world to his world.
(14:27):
Learning sign language, trying to help him with his homework,
trying to help him make friends, participate in sports with him.
And it was very frustrating for me and for my family, and indeed for him.
He was younger.
He is older.
Yes.
You as a younger brother, helping him.
Exactly.
Yes, it was like a relationship of friends, technically,
(14:50):
because the idea was to help him all the time,
but ultimately, I think he was the one who helped me the most,
I mean, the one who taught me the most.
Because when he tried to enter a university,
we started to see many more problems.
The fact that the universities in Colombia, at the time,
at that time, didn't have that inclusion, that sign language,
(15:13):
that sign language, or didn't have instruments to get to that type of community.
So it was something frustrating,
which my brother gave up on a professional career,
but it was also frustrating to see that the same society was trying to fix it.
So in that order of ideas, my mother decided to organize a foundation,
(15:35):
which is for which my family, we dedicated a little time,
and it was a bakery, precisely.
And I really liked how he focused it.
In fact, the bakery is called Fundación Pan de Amor,
and the motto is, done with five senses.
So what does it consist of?
People with diverse skills,
which is very difficult for them to get a job,
(15:58):
that they employ them precisely because the employees are afraid of them,
the fact that something may happen to them, that they have to pay a security,
a policy, or anything, they don't hire them precisely.
So what we do with the foundation is that people with diverse skills
can go develop their talents and feel useful from them,
because many times they have that burden of feeling like a burden,
(16:24):
a burden of redundancy for their family.
So when one visits the foundation,
we find people with Down syndrome, blind people,
people with muscular atrophy, deaf people, making bread, and selling the bread.
That enriches them a lot, and in effect, it generates a personal satisfaction for us,
(16:46):
and knowing that we are changing the world for other people,
and apart from that, enriching ourselves as people.
So thanks to that, I also had to take those bakery courses with my brother,
and see how the foundation grew, and how it helped him,
because in effect it was my obligation to go every day to attend that bakery in Colombia.
It helped me develop certain skills with the bakery, with the bakery.
(17:09):
And for things of life, I ended up here in Washington with a job offer in a bakery.
And also...
Is it in Georgetown?
Yes, it is. It is currently in Georgetown, but it is a bakery in New York,
and it has like, I don't know, five or six cities at the moment.
And right there I am developing something for what I thought I would least do,
(17:31):
which is the bakery, precisely.
So, that plus the experience that my mom forced me to take when managing that bakery in Colombia,
at that time she offered me a job offer here in Washington, which is to manage a bakery.
I have learned a lot, I think I learn something new every day from all the people I work with.
(17:52):
But also, if we want to see it from a point like the change of the world since COVID,
it helped me a lot to reinvent myself.
It helped me a lot to, as I was saying, open my perspectives and be open to any possibility, any offer.
And it's just the fact of being able to embrace the uncertainty.
I feel like life itself is settling down, and ultimately I'm working for a bakery, as he was saying.
(18:17):
It's great to grow with someone who doesn't have the same skills as you,
knowing that sometimes they suffer a difficulty and it's not fair.
My mom had epilepsy and sometimes she couldn't drive, we were always in a bus,
and I was always paying attention in case of an attack.
(18:39):
And you get to see it from a point of view, because when you want to apply for a job,
you're getting asked to drive.
And then, for every little thing, you have to explain, well, I can't drive for this reason.
And certain small things can be a big thing for a person.
(19:02):
In fact, one of the skills that my bosses like the most is the fact that we receive people with reduced audition,
and I'm the one they ask to attend to, not you, because you're the one who knows sign language.
And it's nice because when they realize that the same bakery is inclusive,
they end up bringing more people and they feel special and want to take pictures with more family.
(19:28):
Exactly, we end up being more fraternal.
I think inclusion is super important.
I'll tell you a fun fact, I'm learning sign language right now.
I was inspired by Juli's story because he had already told me about it in another video,
and also because inclusion is very popular nowadays,
(19:49):
but not just in the verbal language, but in the non-verbal.
It's important that one can communicate with all people.
So, it's important that, not having those limitations,
but maybe taking the initiative to complement our skills and have a greater relationship with everyone.
(20:14):
Because that's the real inclusion, that we are willing to put our grain of sand
to generate more tolerance, to teach people that we are all part of the community,
and we all must be heard.
Yes.
So, I think it's super interesting. Juli, where is the bakery?
(20:35):
They are currently in San Gil.
Because the next one is to go visit the bakery.
Yes, they are in San Gil, precisely, and they work for the communities in the San Gil area,
the towns near San Gil, in Colombia, clearly.
San Gil is a municipality in Bucaramanga.
In Santander, yes, about two or three hours from Bucaramanga.
(20:57):
What is the capital of Santander?
Exactly, so that's where I was born and where I grew up, technically.
And it's for the community in which the foundation is working,
for the San Gil community and its surroundings.
So, it's excellent, wonderful, you can get to know the experience,
and clearly you can help not only those people who are working there, but also their families.
(21:22):
Because also, when families see that these people are in another world,
they feel better, that will alleviate the burden of the families
that, in effect, end up carrying a heavy burden,
because it's the fact of keeping the high spirits of a family that, ultimately, doesn't feel like...
(21:44):
Of course, they feel productive within society and that helps them.
Exactly, that's the idea.
It's an interesting topic, you know, because education in Colombia
still needs to improve a lot in terms of inclusion.
We are, even as universities are adapted,
not only for people who suffer from disorder disabilities,
(22:05):
but also those who have reduced mobility.
So, there are universities that are a whole building and don't have an elevator.
So, if people have some difficulty walking or moving, how will they get to class?
In Colombia, there are universities that are for people who can't listen.
I don't remember the name at the moment, but it was only in Bogotá.
(22:28):
So, to that, which is very good, add the idea that a family,
although it has the fear of the world it will face,
let's say, in this case, my brother, with his reduced hearing,
sending him to a capital that is much more chaotic,
and besides, we come from a very small town,
so it's a very difficult idea to accept.
(22:49):
So, that, and besides, the high costs are also a limitation for the family.
But I think that institutions in Colombia are working on that right now,
not only universities, because also, in fact, my brother,
at the moment, does have the Panadería project,
but he's a little bit on the side,
(23:10):
because he was presented an opportunity to be a teacher of sign language
in some public schools in the region.
So, he's from town to town, which is easier for us too,
but it's also much easier for him to teach all primary and secondary school students
this language, so that, in effect, it's more inclusive.
(23:32):
Yes, good idea. I think that would help a lot of people,
because sometimes one doesn't know who one can communicate with,
and one never knows when one needs help.
Yes, exactly.
There was a time when I was drinking with a girl,
and at one point I thought we could communicate for a while,
(23:53):
so I would pass her phone and she would write,
and we would spend a while like that,
but after almost a month she said that I had to learn,
or else I was bothering her a lot.
I didn't have a place to take classes.
Nowadays I think you can do it online or something else,
but at that time...
Yes, online. I'm online.
(24:15):
You're online.
Yes, yes.
I'll send you later.
Yes, well, that was the girl, but...
But anyway, you never know when.
Hey, but it's interesting that your brother is from town to town,
because it's true, Colombia has been working a lot on the issue of inclusive education,
but that is more seen in big cities,
and it's a big country that we need to reach regions.
(24:39):
Yes, let's say that, going back to the topic from the beginning,
because this podcast gave a very interesting twist,
but precisely in that kind of thing is what I like to focus on
when we talk about public policies and how I focused my career,
because although there may be laws in Colombia that talk about inclusion
(25:00):
and that force institutions to do inclusion tasks,
the reality is that it's completely different.
And as Colombia, despite being a supposedly decentralized state,
focuses its power only on Bogotá and the capitals,
Bogotá, Medellín, Bucaramanga, Barranquilla perhaps,
is like extremely focused on those cities,
and then the people end up leaving aside,
(25:23):
and it turns out that people also live in the towns,
Colombians also live, people who contribute with taxes,
and they are also votes in the last place.
So, it sounds ugly, but it's a reality, let's say, of Colombian politics.
So, how I try to apply things is precisely by advising mayors
so that through a development plan, through a public policy,
(25:47):
it can be guaranteed that the resources are going to be invested in the way it should be,
and this type of projects or this type of laws can be applied.
And lastly, if the mayor or if he wanted to decline that public policy,
he knows that he's going to face sanctions,
so with a more serious threat on top of them,
(26:08):
they're going to say, okay, we have to do it.
And thanks to the fact that the system is shaped a little,
it can be guaranteed that, in effect,
what was originally thought to be inclusion for this case is fulfilled,
or we also handle different issues,
gender issues, my mom is dedicated to that,
so I've also learned a lot of things,
(26:30):
fields issues, independently the issue,
what is sought is precisely that laws are applied
and public policies are made effective,
that the national government tries to implement in abandoned peoples or territories of the country.
If you had ambitions to enter, as well as to be mayor or to be political in Congress or something like that,
(26:56):
because sometimes you can make a change from within.
It has always caught my attention to be that figure, the one who puts the face, let's say,
but we all know that behind that person there is a system, there is a team,
so many times the team is heard more,
and it is the team that ends up making the decision.
(27:19):
The person who puts the face, the candidate, the politician as such, is the one who sacrifices people,
while the advisors are the ones who can shape the situation,
but they are not so exposed to public speech.
So precisely, at this time I see myself more as an advisor,
being behind the scenes,
but in effect, I think that, I don't know,
(27:42):
all of us who are in this environment, we do have an internal policy,
and we all dream of suddenly being presidents of the country,
but it is already a dream, let's say, very there.
At the moment what we want is to try to understand the system and do things right.
I think I had that dream for a week when I was five years old, and then I didn't.
(28:05):
Yes, yes, it is that after one analyzes the situation, one says,
the person who puts the face is the one they sacrifice.
And many times it is not worth it, because one can have the intentions.
And sometimes it does not depend on the country,
it can be in Colombia, there are problems, but also here in the United States,
we also have our problems that are very rare.
Yes, and trying to make people happy is very difficult, because...
(28:28):
Yes, nice.
Exactly.
Nobody is happy all the time.
Exactly.
What are your next steps, where do you think you will see,
is there something that you promote, are you writing a book?
Let's say that when I got here, adapting and the whole process, it took a while.
So, already at this time, I consider that I am a little more prepared
(28:51):
and more confident to be able to take a next step in my professional career,
try to do some study in public policies or public administration, precisely,
and be able to escalate professionally.
I mean, I'm clearly very grateful with the bakery, with the bakery,
but I also have it clear that what I want is to change the world in a certain way,
(29:14):
and I am clear that it will be from public administration.
Now, for someone who is listening today and does not know what public administration is,
that is, he is not a lawyer, he does not understand what a lawyer does in that field.
Yes, precisely, as an example, let's say what they did in Colombia, precisely,
(29:35):
is taking the laws that already exist and trying to implement them
through public administration, that is, through the municipalities,
from townships, creating more focused public policies,
that is, not at a national level because it is something already quite large,
(29:57):
quite difficult to control, but if to manage through organizations
that are usually the ones who work on this,
issues of people with street conditions or drug addiction,
issues of social inclusion, precisely, of women and gender.
So, how can you do it?
(30:19):
Analyzing the laws that this country already has,
trying to create a realistic public policy,
how it is going to be implemented, which community it is going to look for,
in which it is going to focus, what is the budget and how that budget is going to be invested,
that is, make an investment plan, a spending plan,
a clear calendar of how many visits or what are the projects,
(30:41):
in which days this project is going to be executed,
and in this way, to contribute that grain of sand to be able to change it.
It sounds like a lot of work, it is not something that a single person can do.
Yes, indeed.
We are talking about budgets, all kinds of numbers,
knowing who can organize.
(31:03):
Of course, also with an interdisciplinary team.
Totally, with accountants, lawyers, public administrators, financial engineers,
if necessary, sociologists, it must be a group of qualified professionals,
precisely, and psychologists,
to be able to present the project, that everyone should take into account what the goal is,
(31:25):
and from there, the tasks begin to be divided.
To sleep, to the mayor, and you have to vote for this.
Exactly, exactly.
And that's the other thing, taking the mayors,
as they make many proposals in the air,
what is sought is, or what I seek, is that in effect,
all that he said becomes reality.
Not just to win votes, to win people,
(31:48):
but it really is fulfilled, it is guaranteed that it can be fulfilled.
You also have to work with people with advertising,
but it is paid. Yes, in effect, because people will not always understand them.
Exactly, you have to know how to communicate things,
what we are talking about right now, communication is very important,
so people who help us transmit the final message,
what is sought, and what was achieved, or how was the change,
(32:11):
how was the transformation, how resources were implemented,
so that there is transparency, if there is transparency, there is confidence.
Fuli, and any anecdote you have with some mayor that you can tell us,
that they have marked you?
Ok, I have one, well I have many,
at this time I came to mind with an mayor,
(32:32):
a fairly small town in Santander,
but a very beautiful town, it was called Chima, Santander.
He was the first one who believed in me, let's say,
I mean, after taking my diploma, without experience, he said,
ready, you are talking to me about this, he convinced me, let's do it.
I want a new team, I want a team,
that is, let's oxygenate this town, get out of the tradition,
from the political clans, so I said, of course, let's do it.
(32:55):
So we got on the project, and with this mayor,
he was the one who demanded me the most,
but precisely because it was with whom we always went to all the villages,
to all the municipalities of the municipality,
it took me two months perfectly,
traveling by train, traveling, sometimes getting off the truck,
(33:16):
with the equipment on our backs, that is, with the bags,
and then going up a mountain for an hour,
to the sun's rays, to be able to reach that person
who lived in the last corner of the municipality,
simply to hear what their needs were,
and many times it wasn't like, build me a road,
I mean, you saw that I had to go up an hour every day,
on foot, to the sun's rays, to my house,
(33:38):
I don't want the road, I just want them to fix my school,
to guarantee that my children will have a good education,
they will have a good education, they will be able to take care of little things.
And lastly, that marked me, because the community understands
that ultimately the municipality is not the one who comes to solve things,
which is what politicians often say,
I can't solve that, there's no money for that, I don't know what...
(34:00):
but if we change little things, for example,
by adapting a good educational institution to that community,
the family will feel safer that the children go to classes
without a roof falling on them, a wall coming on them,
without falling into a ravine.
So with that, the family will feel better,
with a higher quality of life,
and they will be able to perform their activities
(34:21):
and their economic development in a better way.
That is reflected in the numbers of the municipality,
better tax collection, good perception of the administration,
of the municipality, or different things.
So I think that marked me a lot when I got to know myself,
I think that 80% of the population of that municipality,
(34:43):
hugging all the people, as a lawyer,
people saw me coming down from the horses sometimes,
and they told me, oh, engineer, come and have this soup, come,
they are very dear, so...
Exactly.
Let's have the party.
Exactly, so...
More or less like that, they saw us arrive at the caravan,
like the mayor of the professional team,
(35:07):
and all of a sudden, the sound equipment was on,
the pots were on, they started to cook,
and seeing that the administration came out of the office,
in the municipal headquarters,
and they went to the most remote corner of the municipality,
where no one entered,
that made them feel included in the community.
And that seemed great to me,
(35:29):
and I think it's a task that all the leaders should do,
govern from all over the territory, not from an office.
So...
Of course, because that environment allows you to know the reality...
Totally.
...of the territory you are governing.
Of course, they told us, for example,
that the municipalities were not going there
simply because there was no road,
(35:51):
so they couldn't get there by car.
And then the mayors had the perception
that what that community needed was a road,
for which they probably had no budget,
but it turns out that they didn't,
they wanted to go to something completely different,
and they said, we have lived our whole lives
with this type of road,
we are already adapting.
What we want is that we focus on solving this first,
(36:12):
or on these housing solutions.
It turns out that this person lives in extreme poverty,
so being able to provide a decent housing
through the community,
so I think that taught me a lot
about administration and politics in the end,
being with people.
After that, we expanded projects with that mayor for two years,
(36:33):
and the truth is that I have fallen in love with that task,
of working with the community,
of listening to the community,
of embracing the community,
of living within the community all the time,
knowing it, identifying with the problems.
Yes, because there are other people who would say,
we better focus on the majority,
and because they don't want to worry about the person
(36:54):
who takes an hour to get there,
but as you said,
what he wanted was not the road,
what he wanted was something different,
and not everyone wants what one thinks they want.
Exactly, the fact of listening to the person,
knowing how to communicate the needs is fundamental.
So that also marked me a lot,
(37:15):
because in the end, I saw the professional project
that I had at that time from an office in Bucaramanga,
and to advise through calls, video calls,
or emails to the mayors of the tasks I had to do,
and that is a completely different reality.
From Bucaramanga to an office with air conditioning
on an eighth floor, with paved roads,
(37:37):
all the services included,
for me everything is fine in that town,
until the moment I went to the town and met the town,
and I said, this is another reality,
and my thing is to come to meet the people,
and listen to the anecdotes, the needs,
and understand that we are not only one thing,
but we are a group of many anecdotes,
(38:00):
of many circumstances, and of many realities.
And that was what most marked me.
I am fascinated that you have that passion for people,
for that job, because it is more difficult
to do that kind of work when you really don't care.
Yes.
And I believe that when you know it,
you take it from the heart, you do it better.
And something that happened, something curious,
(38:22):
is that the town, as such, the municipality of Chima,
before that administration in which I worked,
was one of the most, or let's say,
the most prominent in terms of the qualifications
of the tax return,
of the way in which they applied the development plan,
and that the resources and the whole story were being followed.
(38:43):
But after that administration,
thanks to the task of all the secretaries
who had the same disposition, the municipality,
and well, in part of the goals that we set for them,
it was easy to see how they were scaling
in the qualification that makes them,
I think it is every year, the same national government.
So it was quite gratifying to see
that in numbers, they simply rose quite a few steps.
(39:07):
It is quite cool, quite gratifying to see
that when one does things out of passion,
really, you do see some interesting results
and that they change lives, I think.
At least mine changed.
It seems super interesting to me.
The truth is that I also love working in regions.
When I had the opportunity in Colombia
(39:28):
to visit municipalities,
to travel the streets,
that was super, super cool.
And working with historically rejected communities
or historically discriminated communities,
I found it very interesting.
How good that there are people like you
willing to change the world still.
And thank you for sharing your story.
(39:50):
Yes, thank you very much.
Thank you for the invitation.
Share with others.
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much for having me.
(40:26):
Thank you.
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