September 10, 2024 • 45 mins
The second part of the behind-the-scenes recording --- Co-hosts Kelby and Margarita share personal stories of their journeys and unknown truths of each other's background.
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Co-host, Kelby Ballena, is an international specialist and legal operations professional (non-lawyer) at the "Big Law" firm, Hughes Hubbard and Reed LLP. He's been in the legal industry for over 25-years in various practice areas. His experience ranges from complex international legal cases, to teaching and simplifying best practices for those joining the legal field, to motivating efficiency and collaborations among professionals to serve our community. https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelbyballena/
Co, host, Margarita Rosa Arango, is a Colombian attorney and recent LL.M 2024 graduate from American University's Washington College of Law. She practiced international public and human right law for Colombia before arriving to the U.S. and recently joined Kelby at Hughes Hubbard & Reed LLP in mid-2025. https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaritaarangor/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Wait, where are you from, Kelby?
(00:19):
I was born here.
Oh, here in DC?
Yeah, in DC.
Yeah, on this table.
Oh, wow!
But I'm just, you're getting late with those sounds.
I am, right?
I am.
No, no, I was born in DC, actually, Georgetown University.
Yeah, I was, you know, what's so funny is my mom would get things confused all the time,
(00:42):
so for the longest time she would tell me that I was born at GW, George Washington.
So I actually ended up going to college at George Washington.
So and then one day I am going through my birth certificate and I'm like, it says Georgetown.
And she's like, oh, what was it, George something?
I was like, I was like, you know, I intentionally didn't apply to Georgetown because I really
(01:07):
wanted to go to George Washington.
I thought it was like this thing, some sign, but she got it wrong.
She mixed up the Georges.
So yeah, I ended up going to school in George Washington University and I had no idea what
I wanted to do other than I wanted to do something in the legal field because the legal field
is just fast.
(01:27):
It really actually wasn't my mother that inspired me to be a lawyer, even though my dad was
the, my dad was the lawyer in Peru.
And after he had graduated, he found out my mother was pregnant.
My mother ends up trying to get a visa because she has family here.
(01:48):
And I think I'm pretty sure, no, I'm definitely sure that my father had no intention of coming
and probably just abandoning us.
But when she gets the paperwork, they end up making a clerical error technically and
they gave a visa to him, even though he didn't apply.
(02:11):
So he saw that as a sign and he had just graduated.
He thought of, oh, I'm never going to have my career.
But in the end he saw that as a sign and he said, okay, I'm just going to give her my
career knowing nothing about America, knowing having no contacts here.
And he decided I'm going to go, I'm going to, he's going to man up and just take his
(02:34):
responsibility.
He's going to come with my mom.
She was about eight months pregnant.
She was on the plane and she didn't want to be rejected.
So she ended up wearing this super heavy jacket from her father and she just doesn't take
it on and she's sweating and everything.
She's just, I'm not taking this coat off because if they see the belly or something, they might
(02:56):
boot me off.
At some point, I'm just like, well, why don't you just take it off on the plane?
Because then you're on the plane.
So they're not going to just turn the plane around and let you off.
But I was born here and they didn't know anybody.
They also decided they're going to start fresh.
My father was a janitor up until he retired and a janitor in law office.
(03:19):
And he would always talk about just, oh, had I been a lawyer?
Had I stayed?
And I feel like he had a lot of regrets.
And I always feel like that could have been the reason why I wanted to do law.
But the reality was it was more my mother, since I can remember, maybe it was eight or
(03:40):
nine.
It was the first time I saw her have a seizure.
I didn't know what this was.
And she was always going to the doctor and I always kidded around.
I was like, I wanted to be a doctor at that point.
I went, I'm a little kid.
What did I know?
And so I was eight and she was with me by herself.
She had a seizure and I'd never seen.
(04:02):
I don't know if you ever seen somebody have a seizure, but it's the scariest thing.
I didn't know what to do.
And she is there wailing and flapping around.
I was alone with her and I didn't know what to do.
I didn't even know that this was something that would happen.
They were really good at hiding it for a very long time.
They were really good at hiding it, but she needed medication and things like that.
(04:26):
And the first time I see her, I see her like, I think she, she bites on her tongue.
She's bleeding.
She's, she's all over the place and then she's, she's out and she's out for a good
10 minutes.
I don't know what to do.
So I, I, I call 9-1-1.
They come, they wake her up.
She just had a seizure.
She's fine.
Go see a doctor and then we get the bill of like $500 for having the ambulance come in
(04:52):
and it wasn't anything.
And I was like, Oh, I wish I would have known how to help another time.
Then she has another seizure.
And I know at this point, because they got upset and was a lot of money.
Don't call 9-1-1 at this point, just let her have the seizure.
(05:14):
So I know I had to loosen her clothing like after the seizure, make sure she doesn't bump
her head.
And this whole time, they can't the doctor help?
Can't they fix anything?
Can they help?
And that's when I started going with her to the doctor and I started to help.
(05:34):
And I realized that the miscommunication was the doctor didn't speak Spanish and she's
trying to explain what's going on and doctors explaining medication and really just there's
a disconnect and trying to also translate Spanish medical terms is incredibly difficult,
(05:56):
especially for like at that point, a kid.
Wait, so your mother didn't speaking?
No, she even to this day, her English is here and there.
She knows if I'm cursing, but not enough to make.
Then you see we'll have to believe the course in the program.
(06:18):
Right.
She wasn't getting the help she needed for a very long time.
And it was just paperwork after paperwork.
And I was calling doctors and I was calling the pharmacy and they had to adjust here and
there.
But then it was just like, oh, we don't have an appointment, but it's not urgent.
It was one of those things where she was just at some point just ignoring it because it's
(06:38):
money and it's also paperwork.
And she had lived with it all her life.
And because she had lived with it all her life, she was like, well, this is just something
I just had to make sure that and she got really good.
The moment she felt like a seizure was happening, she would run to like the bedroom and like
yell out for my dad.
And like to this day, that still like gives me a little horror.
(07:01):
But the way she yelled, because that's the last thing she could do before she would get
on the bed and she would have a seizure.
And we would just live with that.
Whenever something triggered, we didn't know what it was.
And I think now that I think about it, I'm like, wow, there are so many people that ignore
(07:23):
things because of paperwork, because of dumb bills.
In reality, and now we know to this day now that she was not getting the right medication.
She was getting medication that she was supposed to get off of a year in.
She had been on it for 30 years.
So there was definitely a lot of malpractice and different things.
(07:45):
Also malpractice when I was born because she always says, oh, she had complications.
She would have loved to have had another kid, but I was the only one and it was a C-section.
So she always says it was complications, but I was like, what kind of complications means
that she can no longer have kids?
Something got tied without her consent.
(08:08):
And of course, I try not to mention that to her now because I'm sure it just brings up
a lot of anger, but she accepts it as it was just, it wasn't meant for her, but she always
regrets it.
But all of those things makes me realize that I had the knowledge that I had now with knowing
paperwork, making phone calls, knowing what the procedure should be that could have really
(08:32):
saved them.
Being a doctor at that time, learning medicine, it wouldn't have done anything.
It really wouldn't have helped because if the doctor wasn't able to help, then me being
a doctor wouldn't have helped.
So that's when I got more and more encouraged to look into more of the helping via paperwork,
(08:53):
via phone call.
And I didn't know what to call it at the time because my dad never explained what being
a lawyer was like.
He just made it sound like you go to a room with your suit and a briefcase and he still
has his briefcase to this day.
He had that and his typewriter and he's like, oh yeah, you type things and it's like, but
(09:13):
I didn't understand what it was.
But to me it ended up becoming is it's helping people with their paperwork, helping people
communicate, being able to translate, being able to understand, being able to say, hey
doctor, you are wrong.
Because a lot of people assume that doctors are never wrong.
(09:35):
And so they don't question things.
They don't question.
And the way the system is, at least in America is you get those 15 minutes and that's what
you pay for or whatever.
Health insurance won't cover it.
So we're not going to do testing that could probably save your life.
And that really encouraged me.
And beyond that, I loved seeing whenever my dad would clean offices.
(10:00):
In fact, at some point, I think it was high school or something, I took a summer job and
I put on the apron and I started cleaning the office.
It was fun.
And I had fun like vacuuming.
Here, like these days they have a very thin carpet, but back in the day they had very
thick carpet.
So when you vacuum, you see all the lines.
(10:21):
So I would make it like a football field.
Like football, you see the lines of all.
It looked really nice.
And of course the moment I told me to walk in, you see all the feet coming in.
But yeah, you'd have these massive offices and you're like, what do these people do?
Yeah, and so it wasn't until I realized really all of those things are like related.
(10:44):
And it really encouraged me to say like, wow, this is not just about a job.
This is more.
This is a lot more.
I'm interested about knowing a little bit more of your theatrical days.
My theatrical days and my time in the pit.
I mean, that's really nice.
(11:05):
I actually I actually studied music for a while, too.
My mother wanted me to be a singer and not a lawyer.
A singer.
Do you sing?
I do.
Oh, really?
Like karaoke or something?
No, like I had a band back home.
Really?
Wow.
What was the name of your band?
It was Dauntless.
Dauntless?
Dauntless.
Oh, Dauntless.
Yeah.
(11:26):
OK.
And what kind of music did you play?
We're like pop, like Pink.
One Republic cover.
Oh, so you weren't covering like Colombian bands you were covering, American bands.
Yeah, of course.
Yeah.
OK.
My friends were like this.
I always found that fascinating.
At one point, I'm in Peru with my cousins and they're like singing Michael Jackson.
(11:49):
Oh, word by word.
I'm such a big fan of Michael Jackson.
They were singing it word by word.
And then they asked me, what does this say?
I'm like, you mean you don't know what it says?
Yeah, what is he saying?
I don't know if it translates the way you think it's going to translate.
I can't translate beat it.
And then, you know, what's going on?
(12:09):
It's not my level.
Yeah.
Yeah.
OK.
So you had a band.
Yes.
Was it Frowned Upon?
No.
No?
OK.
It was cool.
Yeah, we were cool.
OK.
So did you have like green hair and like a punk band?
Not me.
My friends did.
I had green hair and stuff.
(12:29):
OK.
I was just the cute one.
You were the one with the B sign.
Did you get tattoos?
No, no.
No, no matching tattoos or band tattoos?
They got the tattoos.
I hate tattoos.
Where are they now?
Well, so we actually end the band because all of us went to different places.
So one of us is in Germany.
(12:50):
The other one is in Spain.
Some of them are in Medellin back home.
Yeah.
So you can still play music?
All of us are still playing music.
Wow.
We love music, but we just don't do it in a serious way.
It's just hobbies.
Oh, OK.
So it's just for fun.
Yeah.
(13:10):
OK.
Yeah.
So I had the band.
I love music.
I love music.
That's why I'm interested.
Yeah.
These days they add like karaoke to networking.
Somebody had me sing some kind of Pitbull song.
I don't even know the lyrics to this.
(13:31):
So Pink was a popular one.
Oh my God.
She is my favorite artist ever.
I love her.
She's so cool.
When I was here doing the internship at the permanent mission of Colombia, I went to see
Pink in Madison Square Garden.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
She's so cool.
She has this great energy.
(13:52):
You know, maybe that's one of the things that inspire me to have a good energy.
Like what you project to people.
I love that.
So she began the show so big.
This amazing energy that the moment she came, everyone just light up.
Really?
It was so cool.
Yeah.
She's so amazing.
Was that the first time you saw Pink?
(14:12):
Yeah.
OK.
At Madison Square Garden.
That's like the best way to see Pink.
I was all or nothing.
OK.
So you play the guitar too?
I do.
OK.
Yeah.
Wow.
I love music.
No, no, no.
But I studied music for a while.
OK.
So like I said, my mother was very mad at me when I told her I wanted to be a lawyer
and I wanted to be a lawyer.
(14:33):
That doesn't make sense because she's in politics and she's.
I know.
And I wanted to be a lawyer because.
I wonder if it's one of those like, I don't want you to be like me.
Oh, she knows.
To go through that.
I don't want you to be like her.
Really?
So she would not care if you decided I'm going to run for office or something like that.
But.
Oh, she'll be so proud.
(14:54):
Yeah.
But I'm not going to do that.
Yeah.
Not just yet.
OK.
Probably later.
I don't know.
So so entering music and.
Other things.
Yeah.
But the white laws.
She likes me being a lawyer.
I mean, she just she was not convinced of the motives I have.
(15:15):
Yeah.
To be a lawyer, because most people say I want to help other people.
Yes, yes.
That's very nice.
I needed to protect my mother.
Yeah.
From the politics, you know.
OK.
She's not a lawyer.
She's a journalist.
Oh, really?
OK.
And she has always been.
She likes a good story.
She likes it.
Yeah.
And she's me.
(15:36):
Yeah.
She has always been in the private sector.
So this was like a new thing for her.
OK.
She was very excited about politics and she won all in, which is amazing.
Yeah.
She was excited.
But she needed this.
(15:58):
Protection I don't know from someone she could trust.
Right.
So I felt the need.
But she couldn't hire somebody she could eat.
Or is it hard to trust?
I didn't trust them.
OK.
You didn't trust them.
Yeah, of course.
Because I mean, I mean, I'm very close to your mother.
I'm very close to my mother.
At the end of the day.
It's really awesome.
The people that work for her are going to take care of themselves, you know, before
(16:22):
taking care of her.
I will take care of her first and then I'll do my thing.
So I study law to protect my mother from Colombian politicians, which are nasty.
We have similar stories.
We like our mothers.
That's nice.
Yes, we do.
We do.
(16:42):
Just going back to what you were saying about being a lawyer, helping your mom.
Why wouldn't you just decide to stay in Colombia to be near her?
Not that I'm kicking you out or anything.
I love that you're here, by the way.
I hope not.
No, no, no.
I'm just like.
No, you know, I like I think I can protect her even if I'm here.
(17:04):
Yeah.
I still if she has legal questions, if she has.
I mean, I just needed the knowledge to be able to secure her.
But not necessarily being there physically.
My law career was very weird and my childhood maybe because I was very involved in politics.
(17:26):
OK.
Even since I was a little girl.
Did you have a bodyguard?
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
So I was like a maid.
I've heard of stories where I had a friend who had a bodyguard, but she had two.
She had two bodyguards and she had two.
(17:47):
I guess you would call her not like a maid, but like an au pair or somebody who was just
with you all the time because your parents can be.
No, actually, my mother, she has always been very present.
OK, that's great.
That's it's like the bodyguard is there to protect you from constituents who.
Yeah.
(18:07):
So it's funny because she doesn't she didn't want it to be an absent mother.
She wanted to be very present in our lives.
And sometimes she's very present.
Too present.
Yeah.
But and we're really close, actually.
I'm very close with my mother.
I call her maybe twice a day.
Really?
Yeah.
You're much better than I call mine twice a month.
(18:30):
No, I tell you, she's my best friend and I everything I'm going to do.
I'm going to consult with her.
It's crazy.
We have a very strong relationship.
That's great.
Yeah, my childhood was weird because I learned to grow up like very fast.
I needed to behave in a very polite way.
(18:50):
Very stressful.
No.
OK.
I mean, because you miss out on childhood memories.
I think I leave what I had to leave, you know.
Yeah.
Like you miss out on getting in trouble being rebellious.
I'm not.
I am rebellious.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You get no tattoos.
Your hair is your own.
Yeah.
But if I have to say, oh, if I have to say no, I will.
(19:13):
And if I have to stand up for what I believe, I will.
But I'm not rebellious in an archic way.
I think we're a very good team and I've learned a lot from her.
Like my first, like besides being my mother, she has been my mentor as well.
That's great.
It's amazing.
It's amazing because you have this person that, you know, you can blindly trust and
(19:38):
she's always going to be there.
She's always going to help you.
And yes, I had to learn how to do weird things that kids don't do.
Like, for example, I know how to interview the former president of Colombia while he
was the president of Colombia.
I thought you were going to say you hotwired a car or something like that.
No.
All right.
But I was young.
(19:58):
I was like 12.
You were entering the president of Colombia at 12 years old.
Yeah.
Wow.
So that's.
So that's the time you entered the president of Colombia.
I have no idea.
Please tell me you asked him like what his favorite ice cream was.
I have no idea.
So this interview doesn't exist.
Yeah, it does.
I don't know where it is.
And my mother has it in a USB that she's not going to share with me because she's not on
(20:20):
YouTube or anything.
No, no, no, no.
So it was just for a paper at school.
You found something damaging on him.
He like revealed something.
I do remember something he said that he actually we we became very close after.
And he always says this to me whenever I'm leaving the country because I tend to trouble
a lot with my mother and stuff.
(20:42):
And before I came here to the LLMI, I was here doing my internship.
So I travel a lot and I like going other parts of the world.
I like meeting new cultures and learning a lot of things that I think you need whenever
(21:03):
you want to go back to your country and give whatever you're learning.
I mean, that's natural.
So he used to say to me that whenever you buy a ticket to go outside of your country,
just remember and keep in mind that you need to buy the ticket back home.
OK, like don't ever fly away without his biggest advice is make sure you buy a ticket, a roundtrip
(21:29):
ticket.
Yeah, exactly.
That's his biggest advice.
And he said, whenever you can.
I thought this was going to be more riveting.
I thought it was going to say something like, no, I mean, it's a lot.
Make sure you plant a tree in every country.
Most of the people just leave the country and forget they ever been there.
(21:50):
Oh, OK.
So that's what he what is meant.
Yeah, exactly.
Don't turn your back.
Don't turn your back on your country.
All right.
Which I think it's really nice.
OK.
He said that he was actually he was one of the biggest presidents Colombia has had.
He was there for two terms.
OK.
And that's not usually in Colombia.
He's very well known.
(22:11):
OK.
And that's not usual in Colombia.
You know that the history of Colombia is a little bit quiet and just a little bit.
A little bit.
Yeah.
And you have a product that everyone wants.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So they were in every Starbucks.
They were.
I think that's the second most popular.
But yeah.
So they were a lot of internal conflicts.
(22:34):
And back then, children and now we're being recruited by the guerrillas.
OK.
And so he always said that whenever you.
The guerrillas are being in an army or something.
Yeah.
OK.
No, like actual guerrillas.
Not like Tarzan.
Guerrilla, guerrillas, like, I don't know, illegal armed groups.
(22:55):
OK.
So militia, I guess.
That's different.
OK.
But they're supported by the state.
No, they're not.
OK.
That's why.
So no, no.
It's it's the fight is against the state against the state.
So he always say that whenever you wanted to fight something like that, maybe fire with
(23:16):
fire was not the best idea in order for these illegal armed groups not to get to children.
You had to give children something to do.
And he was very poetic, which I'm not sure if I agree or not, but he was very poetic.
And he said, instead of giving them a gun, give them a violin, give them a guitar, give
(23:38):
them a soccer ball.
I don't know, whatever.
But don't let them go to guns.
Which I think it's true.
But the reality in Colombia is really difficult.
Give them some opportunities.
Yes, of course.
But I mean, again, we go back to the human trafficking thing.
What is the state going to do to say, dude, there's people doing four thousand dollars
(24:01):
a day or more just.
By trafficking, trafficking kids.
That's crazy that that happens.
I'd be curious of what what a 12 year old.
I don't remember.
I also remember writing him a song.
Yeah.
So whenever he was going to give the presidency already for the next president to come, they
(24:27):
threw the party in this amazing theater in Colombia.
And I was like, OK, I was like singing.
So I said, OK, this is another opportunity for me to be famous.
Yeah.
And so I wrote the song.
I was 13 years old and the song is still there.
And you play your guitar at the time.
Yeah.
Now they have a video and everything.
(24:48):
Wow.
It's so crazy.
That the song is actually really nice.
Do you miss?
I do sometimes.
Yeah.
I like the part about Colombia.
Do you miss the most of home made in a lot of the food?
I miss my grandmother's cooking so much.
Your grandmother's still alive.
Yeah.
(25:08):
OK.
And she would she would cook.
And after he came back from from singing and we're actually a very artistic family.
She's an artist.
I mean, she paints.
She paints.
She actually look what she did to me.
You're very much in terms of family.
Yeah.
I think I think is based on us.
But we look at this.
You have a lot of so good artists singing going on.
(25:34):
Yeah, we do everything.
Look at this.
You know that the mascot of American University is an eagle.
Right.
So she painted it.
She painted that because you were here.
Yeah.
So she loves painting.
You have a lot of love in your family and that's amazing.
We're very close.
Yeah.
So your mother, your grandmother don't don't have this dream of you need to get married
(25:59):
as soon as you can have kids, be the housewife, all that stuff.
No, housewife.
No, housewife.
No, not at all.
They want me to get married to get to have children, of course.
OK.
But I think now they see that very far away.
You perhaps become too good to find someone at your level.
(26:22):
No, I think you've always have the chance to find the right person.
But I think it's very difficult.
You have too much fire.
You want to do too many things.
Yeah.
And it's hard when you're young and you want to do so many things to find someone that
is willing to do those things with you and to let you grow as well.
Because not only you need to let the other people be themselves, but also support them
(26:46):
in a way that you can grow together.
Right.
And that's really hard to find.
Where did you meet your wife?
I met my wife.
That's a funny story.
My boss was having a Christmas party and at the Christmas party, she was inviting everyone.
And at the time, I remember not wanting to go.
I even asked one of my friends, can you meet me there?
(27:07):
That way when you go and you show up, someone who had also worked at the time, sometimes
when you are working at a law firm, all your friends are coworkers, unfortunately.
But at the time, I said, okay, can you make sure that you show up?
Because that way we can go to a club or something right after work.
So we were making some drinks and stuff.
And I meet my boss's husband's sister and she approaches me.
(27:29):
Of course, she approaches me and then we're making a drink.
We're talking about it.
I had actually just finished a cocktail making course.
I actually have a certification in how to make drinks.
So I got one.
Cool.
And I had done that because I had one, again, another, I had nothing to do this summer.
So I was like, oh, maybe I should learn more about bartending.
(27:50):
So here I am making some fancy drinks at this Christmas party.
And she approaches me.
She were talking here and there and she was telling me that she does personal training.
So I had some questions.
I was like, oh, I am the most lazy person when it comes to personal training or working
out as you will know.
I'm very stubborn.
(28:10):
What kind of advice would you give me?
And we start talking back and forth.
And at some point, I realize that our birthdays are very close.
So I say, oh, what are you doing for your birthday?
So then we end up connecting on Facebook.
This is back when I used to have Facebook.
I'm no longer on Facebook, but I would get on Facebook and we just connected and say,
(28:30):
hey, you want to grab lunch or something or talk.
But I bring up the same question.
I'm like, oh, I'm very stubborn.
What can I do?
New Year's resolutions, all that stuff.
So we hit it off with just exchanging messages.
But we knew because she was related to my boss somehow that she was a definite no.
(28:51):
I cannot get in that area.
I even see her that way.
It was like, oh, no, it's just more of a friendly thing because I don't most of the people I
knew were illegal.
She's in health, personal training, and she her specialty was with people who had difficulties
exercising, meaning they had a disability or they were of much older age.
(29:14):
So I was just curious.
And then one day we decided let's grab lunch or something, just talk or something, because
we are both on Facebook coincidentally sharing our horror stories about dating.
And she even started a dating Facebook group.
It sucks to date.
Like a blog?
Yeah, like a blog.
Oh my God.
(29:35):
To share her embarrassing stories.
That is something I will die to see.
I subscribe.
I ended up, she never ended up posting because we ended up hitting it off after getting lunch.
And we both, after getting lunch, she was like 45 minutes late first of all.
So I can't believe I stayed.
(29:55):
And we talked and we just ended up having a great connection.
And to the point where we were just talking, talking, talking back and forth and we, it
just felt really great.
And both of us after, at that point, I guess it was dinner, both went to the bathroom and
both called our besties or something at the time.
(30:18):
I think this turned into a date.
And from there we didn't really know what to do with that.
We also looked at each other when the check came because had I paid, it would have been
a date.
So we both sort of knew it and I was just like, okay, well we said this was friends.
(30:41):
And what was worse is that when we met, we were going to meet to share some funny stories.
So I shared a lot of stories that you would never share with someone.
Oh my God.
With a date.
I would talk about, at someone I had dated here and there and this horror story and look
what happened to me.
I can't believe this, blah, blah, blah.
And she would share these stories about the crazy people she would date.
(31:03):
So I was like, this is definitely not a date.
So when the time for the check came, I was like, okay, we'll split it, right?
So I'm thinking, okay, I think we've done everything because she's too close to work.
I don't want to get into that area.
And we both paid, we both called our friends and we're like, I think this was a date.
(31:28):
It felt like a date.
I don't know.
I don't know what this means.
But it was enough for me to just be like, well, I had to leave because I had another
party to go to.
At the time I was a serial dater.
I was always dating back then.
I was always really honest about it and I was just like, I'm not looking to set it down.
(31:48):
At the time I had also gone through a divorce.
I was just jaded from wanting to get married again or anything like that.
So I intentionally was just like, no, I'm just going to date.
I'm not going to lie.
I'm just going to be like, oh, I'm dating here and there or I'm interested in somebody,
but I'm not interested in this.
Or if it is going to be serious, you have to have this, this, this, and this, you know,
(32:11):
and many of them.
And I would do this thing.
I don't know if people do it.
I guess you put a wall up, but you intentionally date someone that has a red flag.
So I would date somebody who didn't want to have kids or somebody who wasn't sure about
their future and they might be moving somewhere else or who I could never feel comfortable
(32:34):
enough to like bring them to an office event.
So I would date certain people who just had red flags, but I felt comfortable knowing
that they had their red flags because then that would mean that I would never have to
be serious.
You could run away.
Yeah.
I could just, I just be like, it was you.
It was you.
And I could never admit, no, it was really me.
I was just, I was doing that intentionally knowing that they had these things.
(32:57):
So you knew that back then.
Oh yeah.
I knew that back then at the time.
Okay.
Cool.
Wow.
Yeah.
No, that was, that was definitely a thing, but I was just like, well, this is the way
that I'm never going to have to settle down again because it's with, with my work, with
my, with what I do, trying to be successful, trying to do so many different things.
Like no one's going to keep on the same page.
No one's going to keep up.
(33:18):
So I should just split my time.
You know, somebody's great for the weekend.
Somebody's great for an evening.
Somebody's the person I bring to a work event.
Somebody else is the person who you go dye your hair with, you know?
So everybody had a different thing and then no one was really meeting all of those requirements.
They all had flags until I met my wife and we were resisting every single time.
(33:42):
We would just be like, no, we can't really let this happen.
We're not going to, we're not going to do this.
Fine.
I don't know.
I think it was stupid, but I'm glad I did it.
I was just like, we need to like have a friend only event where we can just hang out and
prove to ourselves that we're just going to be friends.
So I ended up getting tickets to a jazz club and it was, it was like in the afternoon or
(34:07):
something at that.
And it was a terrible, terrible musician, saxophone player, but he was playing such
high notes.
It was, it was terrible.
And it was also one of these places where you get food.
So we had ordered food, but the food was terrible.
And it was also sometime in the summer, it was June and I kid you not, it was like 50
(34:32):
degrees inside the restaurant.
So we were both like freezing.
And then of course, it was a bad date.
And then there was, yeah.
And then I'm like, well, I don't have a coat because nobody carries a coat in summer.
So we were sort of like inching closer and closer together to survive.
(34:52):
Really, it was just like, okay, well, let me sort of slip my arm around you because
you seem to be cold and say, but she was like, yeah, but we're going to be friends.
We're just being friends.
Yeah, I don't want anything.
So then just the connection, the warmth and everything just felt like, okay, no, this
(35:16):
is not a friendship.
This is not a friendship that we may have decided to just leave early or something because
it was bad enough.
We were like, why don't we just go get ice cream or something?
Just going to walk down.
But then in the middle of the street, I was like, why am I fighting this?
And she was thinking about that herself.
She was like, why are we fighting?
(35:38):
So as we're crossing the street and this is like in Bethesda, there's some dangerous places
to cross.
You have to cross at a crosswalk, but the jazz club is sort of in the middle of the
street.
So we're like, fuck it.
We're just going to go right in between and climb the big column and go over like that.
In between, I'm just like, you know what?
Fuck it.
So I grab her and I kiss her in the middle of the street.
(35:59):
She's just like, she's either going to die and get run over or this is going to be, this
is it because this is the moment where we cannot have our walls up because we're going
to die.
So I kiss her and she feels it too.
We cross the street and we're like, you know what, let's just see, see where this goes.
(36:20):
And despite, you know, and we're like, oh man, I just, I don't want this to go bad because
then I don't want to bring in my relationships into work.
I was doing really well, trying to just keep work and things separate.
But yeah, then at that point we tried, well, maybe it's not going to work out, you know?
And then we're like, okay, well, you know, we're going to get married and now we're having
(36:44):
kids and it's funny because now, because she is the sister of the brother who is married
to my boss and now it's like, we're related.
That's just very weird.
I've known my boss far longer than, than I've known, than either of us have known our spouses.
(37:04):
Wait, so your boss is the boss that I know?
Yes.
Yes.
Right.
No.
Yeah.
Yes.
So then that's when it was an amazing friendship.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's great.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, but I think, I think really, like as we had developed work and career and past, you're
(37:27):
like trying to make the connections.
Like who's the boss?
Okay.
Yeah.
No.
And it was just like, well, we were always about like really the work and stuff.
It was never about the family because the family aspect sort of just became something
sort of at the end, but we had built this career and this long history of working together.
So when she decided I'm, I'm going to move, I was, it wasn't because of the family or
(37:52):
the connection.
I was just like, I'm in the same place.
I really want to make the change.
We were both on the same page and we were both like, we, we want something different
in our legal careers.
Yeah.
So we, we made the jump together, but, and she had a really great conversation with him.
She was like, if I jump and you decide to stay or something, I totally understand it's
(38:12):
not going to affect our family relationship.
I know because it's never been about that.
So it would be, it might be weird trying to not talk about things that happen at the office,
but other than that, like fine.
It's crazy that you knew each other before you knew your spouses.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And what's funny is like there were many, many moments because, because my wife ended
(38:34):
up babysitting for her, for her brother.
So sometimes, and her brother used to work with us as well.
It's just like all another story, but we were in trips doing different arbitrations and
things and one in London and one I was supposed to be in Columbia and Dominican Republic.
And we ended up having just crossing paths.
(38:54):
We never actually met each other.
We never saw each other.
At some point I was in her brother's apartment, like dropping off a document.
And she remembers meeting me, but I don't really remember because I was there to drop
off a document.
I didn't know who it was and her brother and her don't really look alike.
Like, yeah.
Like there's a lot of Mexicans, like families were like, one is like really, really dark
(39:17):
and the other one really, really light.
And they're like, they're, they're actually related.
So I remember going to a document and I think he like, oh, maybe she's the maid or something.
And then she had another person cooking.
He's like, oh, he has a chef as well.
That's great.
You know?
And when you're in big law, you don't think twice about it because you're like, well,
that's what you had to do sometimes when you are working and you don't have anybody to
(39:39):
do your laundry.
So I thought that's because in all fairness, she was taking care of the kids and there
was a whole bunch of laundry that they were doing.
So I was like, oh, okay.
Well, so she remembers me meeting me and hearing of me at the time.
And at some point we crossed paths at some point, but we never put two and three together
and we never like met until that moment.
Wow, that's crazy.
That's an amazing story.
(39:59):
Yeah, no, it was a great story.
But it's one of those like that I hesitate to ever tell because really knowing that you
have some kind of family connection with your boss just sounds weird.
You know, one, one, it sounds like, well, is that the reason why you have this job?
(40:21):
But two, it's like, well, no, it's like I want to be beyond that.
I want people to understand there's like each of us have a different perspective, different
teaching, different things that we we work together because we liked working together
and because we like together.
Very good team.
Yeah.
(40:42):
And well, thank you.
And and because of that, that's the only reason I considered anyone in her circle.
And I again, like at the time I was I was I was zero dating and I didn't think, you
know, I thought I had protected myself with these bodyguards who would I would never consider
who would keep me away from settling down because I was having a really great time.
(41:06):
I actually didn't have as great a relationship with my my parents.
Close relationship.
Anytime I call my parents, it feels like most of the time we're asking about the weather,
how's the politics?
Are they still alive?
Are they still healthy?
Are they taking their medicine or something like that?
(41:27):
And that becomes a conversation, not something like, you know, how how is your job treating
you?
What was your class about?
Like nothing deeper than that.
Yeah.
So I admire that anyone who has a deeper relationship with with their family, with your mother,
we haven't talked about your father, but with your mother, your grandmother, I feel like
(41:51):
that.
Yeah.
In Colombia, we have this matriarch.
I don't know how to say in English matriarch.
Yeah.
Like matriarch.
So families are driven by women, by women.
So the grandmother is like, well, whatever the grandmother says is done.
(42:11):
Yeah.
So my family, it's my mother, but my grandmother also.
Yeah.
So that's why maybe men play a secondary role.
Yeah.
So yeah, no, but my relationship with my father is really nice.
Is it because they have to or is it that's just the culture?
It's tradition.
Yeah, it's the culture.
So the men in Colombia normally stay home with the kids?
(42:32):
No, that's not normal.
OK.
But women are the one making decisions, you know, like at least for the family.
I do whatever my mother says.
And my father goes by saying, hey, you should tell your mother.
Yeah.
Whatever your mother says is done.
Really?
Yeah.
And it works?
(42:52):
Yes, a lot.
Wow.
And we do whatever my mother says.
Is that safe, though?
Is that you're not telling your mother that she's wrong?
I'll tell her.
I do not agree with you.
OK.
But that's it.
OK.
If I scream.
You won't call your mom a bitch?
No, no, no.
Never.
Never.
And not because she's going to hit me or anything.
She has never hit me.
(43:13):
But.
La chancla.
Hi, la chancla.
Yeah.
But it's because we have this crazy respect.
And mothers and grandmothers for us are just like figures that go way up high and you're
not supposed to touch, you know, like you're not supposed to disrespect.
Maybe because we are a very Catholic country as well.
(43:36):
But in here, I see that's not common, you know, children talk about to their mothers.
Yeah.
And they say no.
And they stand up.
No, I'm not going to obey.
And that's it.
And it's probably because they don't respect their mothers, fathers.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Maybe it's the culture.
(43:56):
Yeah.
And here.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
That's an interesting thing to explore, because I find it more and more that there are more
and more women complaining about dating, finding love, relationships.
Yet they are now more balanced with men.
They have more powerful jobs, more career driven jobs.
(44:18):
That's great.
And it seems like it's harder even though they're making more money.
I think it is.
I do think it's harder, but it's something we're going to get used to.
Yeah.
Eventually.
We'll figure it out.
We'll figure it out.
Yeah.
That's great.
We'll get comfortable with it.
Awesome.
Well, thank you very much for this conversation.
(44:38):
This has been amazing getting to know you especially and knowing that you have so many
very fascinating connections and stories.
And we equally have, I think, our stories and how we've come to this place.
And we're hoping that we will bring others to share their own story and share how they've
gotten here.
(44:59):
This is a journey.
This is not like...
I don't think anyone really has a destination in mind.
It's just like, this is where I want to go.
But once I arrive, am I done?
What's next?
If you were to be the next president of Columbia, is that it?
What else?
(45:19):
Maybe one day someone will be writing a song for you.
Or interviewing you.
Yeah.
Good luck, indeed.
Wait, where are you from, Kelby?
(00:19):
I was born here.
Oh, here in DC?
Yeah, in DC.
Yeah, on this table.
Oh, wow!
But I'm just, you're getting late with those sounds.
I am, right?
I am.
No, no, I was born in DC, actually, Georgetown University.
Yeah, I was, you know, what's so funny is my mom would get things confused all the time,
(00:42):
so for the longest time she would tell me that I was born at GW, George Washington.
So I actually ended up going to college at George Washington.
So and then one day I am going through my birth certificate and I'm like, it says Georgetown.
And she's like, oh, what was it, George something?
I was like, I was like, you know, I intentionally didn't apply to Georgetown because I really
(01:07):
wanted to go to George Washington.
I thought it was like this thing, some sign, but she got it wrong.
She mixed up the Georges.
So yeah, I ended up going to school in George Washington University and I had no idea what
I wanted to do other than I wanted to do something in the legal field because the legal field
is just fast.
(01:27):
It really actually wasn't my mother that inspired me to be a lawyer, even though my dad was
the, my dad was the lawyer in Peru.
And after he had graduated, he found out my mother was pregnant.
My mother ends up trying to get a visa because she has family here.
(01:48):
And I think I'm pretty sure, no, I'm definitely sure that my father had no intention of coming
and probably just abandoning us.
But when she gets the paperwork, they end up making a clerical error technically and
they gave a visa to him, even though he didn't apply.
(02:11):
So he saw that as a sign and he had just graduated.
He thought of, oh, I'm never going to have my career.
But in the end he saw that as a sign and he said, okay, I'm just going to give her my
career knowing nothing about America, knowing having no contacts here.
And he decided I'm going to go, I'm going to, he's going to man up and just take his
(02:34):
responsibility.
He's going to come with my mom.
She was about eight months pregnant.
She was on the plane and she didn't want to be rejected.
So she ended up wearing this super heavy jacket from her father and she just doesn't take
it on and she's sweating and everything.
She's just, I'm not taking this coat off because if they see the belly or something, they might
(02:56):
boot me off.
At some point, I'm just like, well, why don't you just take it off on the plane?
Because then you're on the plane.
So they're not going to just turn the plane around and let you off.
But I was born here and they didn't know anybody.
They also decided they're going to start fresh.
My father was a janitor up until he retired and a janitor in law office.
(03:19):
And he would always talk about just, oh, had I been a lawyer?
Had I stayed?
And I feel like he had a lot of regrets.
And I always feel like that could have been the reason why I wanted to do law.
But the reality was it was more my mother, since I can remember, maybe it was eight or
(03:40):
nine.
It was the first time I saw her have a seizure.
I didn't know what this was.
And she was always going to the doctor and I always kidded around.
I was like, I wanted to be a doctor at that point.
I went, I'm a little kid.
What did I know?
And so I was eight and she was with me by herself.
She had a seizure and I'd never seen.
(04:02):
I don't know if you ever seen somebody have a seizure, but it's the scariest thing.
I didn't know what to do.
And she is there wailing and flapping around.
I was alone with her and I didn't know what to do.
I didn't even know that this was something that would happen.
They were really good at hiding it for a very long time.
They were really good at hiding it, but she needed medication and things like that.
(04:26):
And the first time I see her, I see her like, I think she, she bites on her tongue.
She's bleeding.
She's, she's all over the place and then she's, she's out and she's out for a good
10 minutes.
I don't know what to do.
So I, I, I call 9-1-1.
They come, they wake her up.
She just had a seizure.
She's fine.
Go see a doctor and then we get the bill of like $500 for having the ambulance come in
(04:52):
and it wasn't anything.
And I was like, Oh, I wish I would have known how to help another time.
Then she has another seizure.
And I know at this point, because they got upset and was a lot of money.
Don't call 9-1-1 at this point, just let her have the seizure.
(05:14):
So I know I had to loosen her clothing like after the seizure, make sure she doesn't bump
her head.
And this whole time, they can't the doctor help?
Can't they fix anything?
Can they help?
And that's when I started going with her to the doctor and I started to help.
(05:34):
And I realized that the miscommunication was the doctor didn't speak Spanish and she's
trying to explain what's going on and doctors explaining medication and really just there's
a disconnect and trying to also translate Spanish medical terms is incredibly difficult,
(05:56):
especially for like at that point, a kid.
Wait, so your mother didn't speaking?
No, she even to this day, her English is here and there.
She knows if I'm cursing, but not enough to make.
Then you see we'll have to believe the course in the program.
(06:18):
Right.
She wasn't getting the help she needed for a very long time.
And it was just paperwork after paperwork.
And I was calling doctors and I was calling the pharmacy and they had to adjust here and
there.
But then it was just like, oh, we don't have an appointment, but it's not urgent.
It was one of those things where she was just at some point just ignoring it because it's
(06:38):
money and it's also paperwork.
And she had lived with it all her life.
And because she had lived with it all her life, she was like, well, this is just something
I just had to make sure that and she got really good.
The moment she felt like a seizure was happening, she would run to like the bedroom and like
yell out for my dad.
And like to this day, that still like gives me a little horror.
(07:01):
But the way she yelled, because that's the last thing she could do before she would get
on the bed and she would have a seizure.
And we would just live with that.
Whenever something triggered, we didn't know what it was.
And I think now that I think about it, I'm like, wow, there are so many people that ignore
(07:23):
things because of paperwork, because of dumb bills.
In reality, and now we know to this day now that she was not getting the right medication.
She was getting medication that she was supposed to get off of a year in.
She had been on it for 30 years.
So there was definitely a lot of malpractice and different things.
(07:45):
Also malpractice when I was born because she always says, oh, she had complications.
She would have loved to have had another kid, but I was the only one and it was a C-section.
So she always says it was complications, but I was like, what kind of complications means
that she can no longer have kids?
Something got tied without her consent.
(08:08):
And of course, I try not to mention that to her now because I'm sure it just brings up
a lot of anger, but she accepts it as it was just, it wasn't meant for her, but she always
regrets it.
But all of those things makes me realize that I had the knowledge that I had now with knowing
paperwork, making phone calls, knowing what the procedure should be that could have really
(08:32):
saved them.
Being a doctor at that time, learning medicine, it wouldn't have done anything.
It really wouldn't have helped because if the doctor wasn't able to help, then me being
a doctor wouldn't have helped.
So that's when I got more and more encouraged to look into more of the helping via paperwork,
(08:53):
via phone call.
And I didn't know what to call it at the time because my dad never explained what being
a lawyer was like.
He just made it sound like you go to a room with your suit and a briefcase and he still
has his briefcase to this day.
He had that and his typewriter and he's like, oh yeah, you type things and it's like, but
(09:13):
I didn't understand what it was.
But to me it ended up becoming is it's helping people with their paperwork, helping people
communicate, being able to translate, being able to understand, being able to say, hey
doctor, you are wrong.
Because a lot of people assume that doctors are never wrong.
(09:35):
And so they don't question things.
They don't question.
And the way the system is, at least in America is you get those 15 minutes and that's what
you pay for or whatever.
Health insurance won't cover it.
So we're not going to do testing that could probably save your life.
And that really encouraged me.
And beyond that, I loved seeing whenever my dad would clean offices.
(10:00):
In fact, at some point, I think it was high school or something, I took a summer job and
I put on the apron and I started cleaning the office.
It was fun.
And I had fun like vacuuming.
Here, like these days they have a very thin carpet, but back in the day they had very
thick carpet.
So when you vacuum, you see all the lines.
(10:21):
So I would make it like a football field.
Like football, you see the lines of all.
It looked really nice.
And of course the moment I told me to walk in, you see all the feet coming in.
But yeah, you'd have these massive offices and you're like, what do these people do?
Yeah, and so it wasn't until I realized really all of those things are like related.
(10:44):
And it really encouraged me to say like, wow, this is not just about a job.
This is more.
This is a lot more.
I'm interested about knowing a little bit more of your theatrical days.
My theatrical days and my time in the pit.
I mean, that's really nice.
(11:05):
I actually I actually studied music for a while, too.
My mother wanted me to be a singer and not a lawyer.
A singer.
Do you sing?
I do.
Oh, really?
Like karaoke or something?
No, like I had a band back home.
Really?
Wow.
What was the name of your band?
It was Dauntless.
Dauntless?
Dauntless.
Oh, Dauntless.
Yeah.
(11:26):
OK.
And what kind of music did you play?
We're like pop, like Pink.
One Republic cover.
Oh, so you weren't covering like Colombian bands you were covering, American bands.
Yeah, of course.
Yeah.
OK.
My friends were like this.
I always found that fascinating.
At one point, I'm in Peru with my cousins and they're like singing Michael Jackson.
(11:49):
Oh, word by word.
I'm such a big fan of Michael Jackson.
They were singing it word by word.
And then they asked me, what does this say?
I'm like, you mean you don't know what it says?
Yeah, what is he saying?
I don't know if it translates the way you think it's going to translate.
I can't translate beat it.
And then, you know, what's going on?
(12:09):
It's not my level.
Yeah.
Yeah.
OK.
So you had a band.
Yes.
Was it Frowned Upon?
No.
No?
OK.
It was cool.
Yeah, we were cool.
OK.
So did you have like green hair and like a punk band?
Not me.
My friends did.
I had green hair and stuff.
(12:29):
OK.
I was just the cute one.
You were the one with the B sign.
Did you get tattoos?
No, no.
No, no matching tattoos or band tattoos?
They got the tattoos.
I hate tattoos.
Where are they now?
Well, so we actually end the band because all of us went to different places.
So one of us is in Germany.
(12:50):
The other one is in Spain.
Some of them are in Medellin back home.
Yeah.
So you can still play music?
All of us are still playing music.
Wow.
We love music, but we just don't do it in a serious way.
It's just hobbies.
Oh, OK.
So it's just for fun.
Yeah.
(13:10):
OK.
Yeah.
So I had the band.
I love music.
I love music.
That's why I'm interested.
Yeah.
These days they add like karaoke to networking.
Somebody had me sing some kind of Pitbull song.
I don't even know the lyrics to this.
(13:31):
So Pink was a popular one.
Oh my God.
She is my favorite artist ever.
I love her.
She's so cool.
When I was here doing the internship at the permanent mission of Colombia, I went to see
Pink in Madison Square Garden.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
She's so cool.
She has this great energy.
(13:52):
You know, maybe that's one of the things that inspire me to have a good energy.
Like what you project to people.
I love that.
So she began the show so big.
This amazing energy that the moment she came, everyone just light up.
Really?
It was so cool.
Yeah.
She's so amazing.
Was that the first time you saw Pink?
(14:12):
Yeah.
OK.
At Madison Square Garden.
That's like the best way to see Pink.
I was all or nothing.
OK.
So you play the guitar too?
I do.
OK.
Yeah.
Wow.
I love music.
No, no, no.
But I studied music for a while.
OK.
So like I said, my mother was very mad at me when I told her I wanted to be a lawyer
and I wanted to be a lawyer.
(14:33):
That doesn't make sense because she's in politics and she's.
I know.
And I wanted to be a lawyer because.
I wonder if it's one of those like, I don't want you to be like me.
Oh, she knows.
To go through that.
I don't want you to be like her.
Really?
So she would not care if you decided I'm going to run for office or something like that.
But.
Oh, she'll be so proud.
(14:54):
Yeah.
But I'm not going to do that.
Yeah.
Not just yet.
OK.
Probably later.
I don't know.
So so entering music and.
Other things.
Yeah.
But the white laws.
She likes me being a lawyer.
I mean, she just she was not convinced of the motives I have.
(15:15):
Yeah.
To be a lawyer, because most people say I want to help other people.
Yes, yes.
That's very nice.
I needed to protect my mother.
Yeah.
From the politics, you know.
OK.
She's not a lawyer.
She's a journalist.
Oh, really?
OK.
And she has always been.
She likes a good story.
She likes it.
Yeah.
And she's me.
(15:36):
Yeah.
She has always been in the private sector.
So this was like a new thing for her.
OK.
She was very excited about politics and she won all in, which is amazing.
Yeah.
She was excited.
But she needed this.
(15:58):
Protection I don't know from someone she could trust.
Right.
So I felt the need.
But she couldn't hire somebody she could eat.
Or is it hard to trust?
I didn't trust them.
OK.
You didn't trust them.
Yeah, of course.
Because I mean, I mean, I'm very close to your mother.
I'm very close to my mother.
At the end of the day.
It's really awesome.
The people that work for her are going to take care of themselves, you know, before
(16:22):
taking care of her.
I will take care of her first and then I'll do my thing.
So I study law to protect my mother from Colombian politicians, which are nasty.
We have similar stories.
We like our mothers.
That's nice.
Yes, we do.
We do.
(16:42):
Just going back to what you were saying about being a lawyer, helping your mom.
Why wouldn't you just decide to stay in Colombia to be near her?
Not that I'm kicking you out or anything.
I love that you're here, by the way.
I hope not.
No, no, no.
I'm just like.
No, you know, I like I think I can protect her even if I'm here.
(17:04):
Yeah.
I still if she has legal questions, if she has.
I mean, I just needed the knowledge to be able to secure her.
But not necessarily being there physically.
My law career was very weird and my childhood maybe because I was very involved in politics.
(17:26):
OK.
Even since I was a little girl.
Did you have a bodyguard?
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
So I was like a maid.
I've heard of stories where I had a friend who had a bodyguard, but she had two.
She had two bodyguards and she had two.
(17:47):
I guess you would call her not like a maid, but like an au pair or somebody who was just
with you all the time because your parents can be.
No, actually, my mother, she has always been very present.
OK, that's great.
That's it's like the bodyguard is there to protect you from constituents who.
Yeah.
(18:07):
So it's funny because she doesn't she didn't want it to be an absent mother.
She wanted to be very present in our lives.
And sometimes she's very present.
Too present.
Yeah.
But and we're really close, actually.
I'm very close with my mother.
I call her maybe twice a day.
Really?
Yeah.
You're much better than I call mine twice a month.
(18:30):
No, I tell you, she's my best friend and I everything I'm going to do.
I'm going to consult with her.
It's crazy.
We have a very strong relationship.
That's great.
Yeah, my childhood was weird because I learned to grow up like very fast.
I needed to behave in a very polite way.
(18:50):
Very stressful.
No.
OK.
I mean, because you miss out on childhood memories.
I think I leave what I had to leave, you know.
Yeah.
Like you miss out on getting in trouble being rebellious.
I'm not.
I am rebellious.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You get no tattoos.
Your hair is your own.
Yeah.
But if I have to say, oh, if I have to say no, I will.
(19:13):
And if I have to stand up for what I believe, I will.
But I'm not rebellious in an archic way.
I think we're a very good team and I've learned a lot from her.
Like my first, like besides being my mother, she has been my mentor as well.
That's great.
It's amazing.
It's amazing because you have this person that, you know, you can blindly trust and
(19:38):
she's always going to be there.
She's always going to help you.
And yes, I had to learn how to do weird things that kids don't do.
Like, for example, I know how to interview the former president of Colombia while he
was the president of Colombia.
I thought you were going to say you hotwired a car or something like that.
No.
All right.
But I was young.
(19:58):
I was like 12.
You were entering the president of Colombia at 12 years old.
Yeah.
Wow.
So that's.
So that's the time you entered the president of Colombia.
I have no idea.
Please tell me you asked him like what his favorite ice cream was.
I have no idea.
So this interview doesn't exist.
Yeah, it does.
I don't know where it is.
And my mother has it in a USB that she's not going to share with me because she's not on
(20:20):
YouTube or anything.
No, no, no, no.
So it was just for a paper at school.
You found something damaging on him.
He like revealed something.
I do remember something he said that he actually we we became very close after.
And he always says this to me whenever I'm leaving the country because I tend to trouble
a lot with my mother and stuff.
(20:42):
And before I came here to the LLMI, I was here doing my internship.
So I travel a lot and I like going other parts of the world.
I like meeting new cultures and learning a lot of things that I think you need whenever
(21:03):
you want to go back to your country and give whatever you're learning.
I mean, that's natural.
So he used to say to me that whenever you buy a ticket to go outside of your country,
just remember and keep in mind that you need to buy the ticket back home.
OK, like don't ever fly away without his biggest advice is make sure you buy a ticket, a roundtrip
(21:29):
ticket.
Yeah, exactly.
That's his biggest advice.
And he said, whenever you can.
I thought this was going to be more riveting.
I thought it was going to say something like, no, I mean, it's a lot.
Make sure you plant a tree in every country.
Most of the people just leave the country and forget they ever been there.
(21:50):
Oh, OK.
So that's what he what is meant.
Yeah, exactly.
Don't turn your back.
Don't turn your back on your country.
All right.
Which I think it's really nice.
OK.
He said that he was actually he was one of the biggest presidents Colombia has had.
He was there for two terms.
OK.
And that's not usually in Colombia.
He's very well known.
(22:11):
OK.
And that's not usual in Colombia.
You know that the history of Colombia is a little bit quiet and just a little bit.
A little bit.
Yeah.
And you have a product that everyone wants.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So they were in every Starbucks.
They were.
I think that's the second most popular.
But yeah.
So they were a lot of internal conflicts.
(22:34):
And back then, children and now we're being recruited by the guerrillas.
OK.
And so he always said that whenever you.
The guerrillas are being in an army or something.
Yeah.
OK.
No, like actual guerrillas.
Not like Tarzan.
Guerrilla, guerrillas, like, I don't know, illegal armed groups.
(22:55):
OK.
So militia, I guess.
That's different.
OK.
But they're supported by the state.
No, they're not.
OK.
That's why.
So no, no.
It's it's the fight is against the state against the state.
So he always say that whenever you wanted to fight something like that, maybe fire with
(23:16):
fire was not the best idea in order for these illegal armed groups not to get to children.
You had to give children something to do.
And he was very poetic, which I'm not sure if I agree or not, but he was very poetic.
And he said, instead of giving them a gun, give them a violin, give them a guitar, give
(23:38):
them a soccer ball.
I don't know, whatever.
But don't let them go to guns.
Which I think it's true.
But the reality in Colombia is really difficult.
Give them some opportunities.
Yes, of course.
But I mean, again, we go back to the human trafficking thing.
What is the state going to do to say, dude, there's people doing four thousand dollars
(24:01):
a day or more just.
By trafficking, trafficking kids.
That's crazy that that happens.
I'd be curious of what what a 12 year old.
I don't remember.
I also remember writing him a song.
Yeah.
So whenever he was going to give the presidency already for the next president to come, they
(24:27):
threw the party in this amazing theater in Colombia.
And I was like, OK, I was like singing.
So I said, OK, this is another opportunity for me to be famous.
Yeah.
And so I wrote the song.
I was 13 years old and the song is still there.
And you play your guitar at the time.
Yeah.
Now they have a video and everything.
(24:48):
Wow.
It's so crazy.
That the song is actually really nice.
Do you miss?
I do sometimes.
Yeah.
I like the part about Colombia.
Do you miss the most of home made in a lot of the food?
I miss my grandmother's cooking so much.
Your grandmother's still alive.
Yeah.
(25:08):
OK.
And she would she would cook.
And after he came back from from singing and we're actually a very artistic family.
She's an artist.
I mean, she paints.
She paints.
She actually look what she did to me.
You're very much in terms of family.
Yeah.
I think I think is based on us.
But we look at this.
You have a lot of so good artists singing going on.
(25:34):
Yeah, we do everything.
Look at this.
You know that the mascot of American University is an eagle.
Right.
So she painted it.
She painted that because you were here.
Yeah.
So she loves painting.
You have a lot of love in your family and that's amazing.
We're very close.
Yeah.
So your mother, your grandmother don't don't have this dream of you need to get married
(25:59):
as soon as you can have kids, be the housewife, all that stuff.
No, housewife.
No, housewife.
No, not at all.
They want me to get married to get to have children, of course.
OK.
But I think now they see that very far away.
You perhaps become too good to find someone at your level.
(26:22):
No, I think you've always have the chance to find the right person.
But I think it's very difficult.
You have too much fire.
You want to do too many things.
Yeah.
And it's hard when you're young and you want to do so many things to find someone that
is willing to do those things with you and to let you grow as well.
Because not only you need to let the other people be themselves, but also support them
(26:46):
in a way that you can grow together.
Right.
And that's really hard to find.
Where did you meet your wife?
I met my wife.
That's a funny story.
My boss was having a Christmas party and at the Christmas party, she was inviting everyone.
And at the time, I remember not wanting to go.
I even asked one of my friends, can you meet me there?
(27:07):
That way when you go and you show up, someone who had also worked at the time, sometimes
when you are working at a law firm, all your friends are coworkers, unfortunately.
But at the time, I said, okay, can you make sure that you show up?
Because that way we can go to a club or something right after work.
So we were making some drinks and stuff.
And I meet my boss's husband's sister and she approaches me.
(27:29):
Of course, she approaches me and then we're making a drink.
We're talking about it.
I had actually just finished a cocktail making course.
I actually have a certification in how to make drinks.
So I got one.
Cool.
And I had done that because I had one, again, another, I had nothing to do this summer.
So I was like, oh, maybe I should learn more about bartending.
(27:50):
So here I am making some fancy drinks at this Christmas party.
And she approaches me.
She were talking here and there and she was telling me that she does personal training.
So I had some questions.
I was like, oh, I am the most lazy person when it comes to personal training or working
out as you will know.
I'm very stubborn.
(28:10):
What kind of advice would you give me?
And we start talking back and forth.
And at some point, I realize that our birthdays are very close.
So I say, oh, what are you doing for your birthday?
So then we end up connecting on Facebook.
This is back when I used to have Facebook.
I'm no longer on Facebook, but I would get on Facebook and we just connected and say,
(28:30):
hey, you want to grab lunch or something or talk.
But I bring up the same question.
I'm like, oh, I'm very stubborn.
What can I do?
New Year's resolutions, all that stuff.
So we hit it off with just exchanging messages.
But we knew because she was related to my boss somehow that she was a definite no.
(28:51):
I cannot get in that area.
I even see her that way.
It was like, oh, no, it's just more of a friendly thing because I don't most of the people I
knew were illegal.
She's in health, personal training, and she her specialty was with people who had difficulties
exercising, meaning they had a disability or they were of much older age.
(29:14):
So I was just curious.
And then one day we decided let's grab lunch or something, just talk or something, because
we are both on Facebook coincidentally sharing our horror stories about dating.
And she even started a dating Facebook group.
It sucks to date.
Like a blog?
Yeah, like a blog.
Oh my God.
(29:35):
To share her embarrassing stories.
That is something I will die to see.
I subscribe.
I ended up, she never ended up posting because we ended up hitting it off after getting lunch.
And we both, after getting lunch, she was like 45 minutes late first of all.
So I can't believe I stayed.
(29:55):
And we talked and we just ended up having a great connection.
And to the point where we were just talking, talking, talking back and forth and we, it
just felt really great.
And both of us after, at that point, I guess it was dinner, both went to the bathroom and
both called our besties or something at the time.
(30:18):
I think this turned into a date.
And from there we didn't really know what to do with that.
We also looked at each other when the check came because had I paid, it would have been
a date.
So we both sort of knew it and I was just like, okay, well we said this was friends.
(30:41):
And what was worse is that when we met, we were going to meet to share some funny stories.
So I shared a lot of stories that you would never share with someone.
Oh my God.
With a date.
I would talk about, at someone I had dated here and there and this horror story and look
what happened to me.
I can't believe this, blah, blah, blah.
And she would share these stories about the crazy people she would date.
(31:03):
So I was like, this is definitely not a date.
So when the time for the check came, I was like, okay, we'll split it, right?
So I'm thinking, okay, I think we've done everything because she's too close to work.
I don't want to get into that area.
And we both paid, we both called our friends and we're like, I think this was a date.
(31:28):
It felt like a date.
I don't know.
I don't know what this means.
But it was enough for me to just be like, well, I had to leave because I had another
party to go to.
At the time I was a serial dater.
I was always dating back then.
I was always really honest about it and I was just like, I'm not looking to set it down.
(31:48):
At the time I had also gone through a divorce.
I was just jaded from wanting to get married again or anything like that.
So I intentionally was just like, no, I'm just going to date.
I'm not going to lie.
I'm just going to be like, oh, I'm dating here and there or I'm interested in somebody,
but I'm not interested in this.
Or if it is going to be serious, you have to have this, this, this, and this, you know,
(32:11):
and many of them.
And I would do this thing.
I don't know if people do it.
I guess you put a wall up, but you intentionally date someone that has a red flag.
So I would date somebody who didn't want to have kids or somebody who wasn't sure about
their future and they might be moving somewhere else or who I could never feel comfortable
(32:34):
enough to like bring them to an office event.
So I would date certain people who just had red flags, but I felt comfortable knowing
that they had their red flags because then that would mean that I would never have to
be serious.
You could run away.
Yeah.
I could just, I just be like, it was you.
It was you.
And I could never admit, no, it was really me.
I was just, I was doing that intentionally knowing that they had these things.
(32:57):
So you knew that back then.
Oh yeah.
I knew that back then at the time.
Okay.
Cool.
Wow.
Yeah.
No, that was, that was definitely a thing, but I was just like, well, this is the way
that I'm never going to have to settle down again because it's with, with my work, with
my, with what I do, trying to be successful, trying to do so many different things.
Like no one's going to keep on the same page.
No one's going to keep up.
(33:18):
So I should just split my time.
You know, somebody's great for the weekend.
Somebody's great for an evening.
Somebody's the person I bring to a work event.
Somebody else is the person who you go dye your hair with, you know?
So everybody had a different thing and then no one was really meeting all of those requirements.
They all had flags until I met my wife and we were resisting every single time.
(33:42):
We would just be like, no, we can't really let this happen.
We're not going to, we're not going to do this.
Fine.
I don't know.
I think it was stupid, but I'm glad I did it.
I was just like, we need to like have a friend only event where we can just hang out and
prove to ourselves that we're just going to be friends.
So I ended up getting tickets to a jazz club and it was, it was like in the afternoon or
(34:07):
something at that.
And it was a terrible, terrible musician, saxophone player, but he was playing such
high notes.
It was, it was terrible.
And it was also one of these places where you get food.
So we had ordered food, but the food was terrible.
And it was also sometime in the summer, it was June and I kid you not, it was like 50
(34:32):
degrees inside the restaurant.
So we were both like freezing.
And then of course, it was a bad date.
And then there was, yeah.
And then I'm like, well, I don't have a coat because nobody carries a coat in summer.
So we were sort of like inching closer and closer together to survive.
(34:52):
Really, it was just like, okay, well, let me sort of slip my arm around you because
you seem to be cold and say, but she was like, yeah, but we're going to be friends.
We're just being friends.
Yeah, I don't want anything.
So then just the connection, the warmth and everything just felt like, okay, no, this
(35:16):
is not a friendship.
This is not a friendship that we may have decided to just leave early or something because
it was bad enough.
We were like, why don't we just go get ice cream or something?
Just going to walk down.
But then in the middle of the street, I was like, why am I fighting this?
And she was thinking about that herself.
She was like, why are we fighting?
(35:38):
So as we're crossing the street and this is like in Bethesda, there's some dangerous places
to cross.
You have to cross at a crosswalk, but the jazz club is sort of in the middle of the
street.
So we're like, fuck it.
We're just going to go right in between and climb the big column and go over like that.
In between, I'm just like, you know what?
Fuck it.
So I grab her and I kiss her in the middle of the street.
(35:59):
She's just like, she's either going to die and get run over or this is going to be, this
is it because this is the moment where we cannot have our walls up because we're going
to die.
So I kiss her and she feels it too.
We cross the street and we're like, you know what, let's just see, see where this goes.
(36:20):
And despite, you know, and we're like, oh man, I just, I don't want this to go bad because
then I don't want to bring in my relationships into work.
I was doing really well, trying to just keep work and things separate.
But yeah, then at that point we tried, well, maybe it's not going to work out, you know?
And then we're like, okay, well, you know, we're going to get married and now we're having
(36:44):
kids and it's funny because now, because she is the sister of the brother who is married
to my boss and now it's like, we're related.
That's just very weird.
I've known my boss far longer than, than I've known, than either of us have known our spouses.
(37:04):
Wait, so your boss is the boss that I know?
Yes.
Yes.
Right.
No.
Yeah.
Yes.
So then that's when it was an amazing friendship.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's great.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, but I think, I think really, like as we had developed work and career and past, you're
(37:27):
like trying to make the connections.
Like who's the boss?
Okay.
Yeah.
No.
And it was just like, well, we were always about like really the work and stuff.
It was never about the family because the family aspect sort of just became something
sort of at the end, but we had built this career and this long history of working together.
So when she decided I'm, I'm going to move, I was, it wasn't because of the family or
(37:52):
the connection.
I was just like, I'm in the same place.
I really want to make the change.
We were both on the same page and we were both like, we, we want something different
in our legal careers.
Yeah.
So we, we made the jump together, but, and she had a really great conversation with him.
She was like, if I jump and you decide to stay or something, I totally understand it's
(38:12):
not going to affect our family relationship.
I know because it's never been about that.
So it would be, it might be weird trying to not talk about things that happen at the office,
but other than that, like fine.
It's crazy that you knew each other before you knew your spouses.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And what's funny is like there were many, many moments because, because my wife ended
(38:34):
up babysitting for her, for her brother.
So sometimes, and her brother used to work with us as well.
It's just like all another story, but we were in trips doing different arbitrations and
things and one in London and one I was supposed to be in Columbia and Dominican Republic.
And we ended up having just crossing paths.
(38:54):
We never actually met each other.
We never saw each other.
At some point I was in her brother's apartment, like dropping off a document.
And she remembers meeting me, but I don't really remember because I was there to drop
off a document.
I didn't know who it was and her brother and her don't really look alike.
Like, yeah.
Like there's a lot of Mexicans, like families were like, one is like really, really dark
(39:17):
and the other one really, really light.
And they're like, they're, they're actually related.
So I remember going to a document and I think he like, oh, maybe she's the maid or something.
And then she had another person cooking.
He's like, oh, he has a chef as well.
That's great.
You know?
And when you're in big law, you don't think twice about it because you're like, well,
that's what you had to do sometimes when you are working and you don't have anybody to
(39:39):
do your laundry.
So I thought that's because in all fairness, she was taking care of the kids and there
was a whole bunch of laundry that they were doing.
So I was like, oh, okay.
Well, so she remembers me meeting me and hearing of me at the time.
And at some point we crossed paths at some point, but we never put two and three together
and we never like met until that moment.
Wow, that's crazy.
That's an amazing story.
(39:59):
Yeah, no, it was a great story.
But it's one of those like that I hesitate to ever tell because really knowing that you
have some kind of family connection with your boss just sounds weird.
You know, one, one, it sounds like, well, is that the reason why you have this job?
(40:21):
But two, it's like, well, no, it's like I want to be beyond that.
I want people to understand there's like each of us have a different perspective, different
teaching, different things that we we work together because we liked working together
and because we like together.
Very good team.
Yeah.
(40:42):
And well, thank you.
And and because of that, that's the only reason I considered anyone in her circle.
And I again, like at the time I was I was I was zero dating and I didn't think, you
know, I thought I had protected myself with these bodyguards who would I would never consider
who would keep me away from settling down because I was having a really great time.
(41:06):
I actually didn't have as great a relationship with my my parents.
Close relationship.
Anytime I call my parents, it feels like most of the time we're asking about the weather,
how's the politics?
Are they still alive?
Are they still healthy?
Are they taking their medicine or something like that?
(41:27):
And that becomes a conversation, not something like, you know, how how is your job treating
you?
What was your class about?
Like nothing deeper than that.
Yeah.
So I admire that anyone who has a deeper relationship with with their family, with your mother,
we haven't talked about your father, but with your mother, your grandmother, I feel like
(41:51):
that.
Yeah.
In Colombia, we have this matriarch.
I don't know how to say in English matriarch.
Yeah.
Like matriarch.
So families are driven by women, by women.
So the grandmother is like, well, whatever the grandmother says is done.
(42:11):
Yeah.
So my family, it's my mother, but my grandmother also.
Yeah.
So that's why maybe men play a secondary role.
Yeah.
So yeah, no, but my relationship with my father is really nice.
Is it because they have to or is it that's just the culture?
It's tradition.
Yeah, it's the culture.
So the men in Colombia normally stay home with the kids?
(42:32):
No, that's not normal.
OK.
But women are the one making decisions, you know, like at least for the family.
I do whatever my mother says.
And my father goes by saying, hey, you should tell your mother.
Yeah.
Whatever your mother says is done.
Really?
Yeah.
And it works?
(42:52):
Yes, a lot.
Wow.
And we do whatever my mother says.
Is that safe, though?
Is that you're not telling your mother that she's wrong?
I'll tell her.
I do not agree with you.
OK.
But that's it.
OK.
If I scream.
You won't call your mom a bitch?
No, no, no.
Never.
Never.
And not because she's going to hit me or anything.
She has never hit me.
(43:13):
But.
La chancla.
Hi, la chancla.
Yeah.
But it's because we have this crazy respect.
And mothers and grandmothers for us are just like figures that go way up high and you're
not supposed to touch, you know, like you're not supposed to disrespect.
Maybe because we are a very Catholic country as well.
(43:36):
But in here, I see that's not common, you know, children talk about to their mothers.
Yeah.
And they say no.
And they stand up.
No, I'm not going to obey.
And that's it.
And it's probably because they don't respect their mothers, fathers.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Maybe it's the culture.
(43:56):
Yeah.
And here.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
That's an interesting thing to explore, because I find it more and more that there are more
and more women complaining about dating, finding love, relationships.
Yet they are now more balanced with men.
They have more powerful jobs, more career driven jobs.
(44:18):
That's great.
And it seems like it's harder even though they're making more money.
I think it is.
I do think it's harder, but it's something we're going to get used to.
Yeah.
Eventually.
We'll figure it out.
We'll figure it out.
Yeah.
That's great.
We'll get comfortable with it.
Awesome.
Well, thank you very much for this conversation.
(44:38):
This has been amazing getting to know you especially and knowing that you have so many
very fascinating connections and stories.
And we equally have, I think, our stories and how we've come to this place.
And we're hoping that we will bring others to share their own story and share how they've
gotten here.
(44:59):
This is a journey.
This is not like...
I don't think anyone really has a destination in mind.
It's just like, this is where I want to go.
But once I arrive, am I done?
What's next?
If you were to be the next president of Columbia, is that it?
What else?
(45:19):
Maybe one day someone will be writing a song for you.
Or interviewing you.
Yeah.
Good luck, indeed.
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