September 23, 2025 • 27 mins
Platonic friendships and relationships—can they really coexist? In this episode of Andi & Mich, the sisters dive into one of the oldest debates in love and friendship: Can someone in a committed relationship have a deep, true, platonic best friend—especially of the opposite sex or a gender they’re attracted to?
From late-night FaceTimes to “work wives,” to the infamous “third wheel” dynamic, Andi and Mich break down the green flags, red flags, and blurred boundaries that make platonic love both powerful and complicated. They bring generational perspectives (hello, Gen X caution vs. Millennial fluidity), real-life stories, and even a pop culture nod to Apple TV’s Platonic.
💡 In this episode you’ll hear about:
- Why Millennials and Gen Z are more open to cross-gender friendships than Gen X or Boomers
- How to spot the line between healthy intimacy and emotional cheating
- Funny (and awkward) scenarios like: your partner baking bread for their “platonic bestie” 🍞
- What “work husband/work wife” really signals—and why it’s often a red flag
- Cultural, generational, and personal values that shape how we define friendship and loyalty in love
- How communication and clear boundaries can make or break the balance between romance and friendship
Whether you’re someone who swears by the “your partner should be your best friend” philosophy, or you believe in having soulmate-level platonic friendships, this conversation will get you thinking (and probably laughing) about your own experiences.
✨ Key takeaway: Platonic love is real—but protecting your romantic relationship means having honest check-ins, respecting boundaries, and making sure no one feels like a side character in your story.
So grab your cafecito, your matcha latte, or text your platonic soulmate and press play—because this episode is full of humor, hot takes, and heartfelt reflection.
🎧 Don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with your bestie, your boo, or that “friend you’re not sure how to label.”
#PlatonicFriendships #RelationshipAdvice #DatingAndRelationships #PodcastClips #AndiAndMich #FriendshipGoals #ModernLove #PlatonicLove #RelationshipBoundaries #CoupledUp #DatingPodcast #HotTakes #FriendshipTalks
If you liked this episode please like and follow our podcast, leave us a comment, and share it with a friend. Visit us on Youtube for extra content and full episodes https://www.youtube.com/@AndiandMich
Your support helps us to keep the conversations going. <3
-Andi and Mich
The Andi and Mich Podcast: Two Sisters, Two Generations, Unique Perspectives, Lots of Laughs
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome back to Andy and Mitch,the podcast where two sisters,
two generations, and two wildlydifferent group chat vibes come
together to talk life, love, andeverything in between.
Today we are asking, can someonein a committed relationship have
a deep, true, platonic bestfriend.
Where's the line between bestieand emotional intimacy overload?
(00:24):
What happens when your partnerstarts feeling a little third
wheelish?
We're diving into stories, hottakes, generational perspective,
and so much more.
So grab your cafecito or yourmacha latte and let's get into
it.
Can people in a committedrelationship actually have deep,
true, platonic best friends, andspecifically of the opposite sex
(00:49):
or a gender that they'reattracted to.
I think this topic comes up alot, especially when you talk
with friends aboutrelationships.
Friends who are newrelationships or a relationship
that's starting to get seriousand then.
It never fails that there's somesort of friend or friendship
that is a question mark.
Like, are we okay with this ornot?
(01:10):
So according to the data,millennials and Gen Zs born
roughly around the 1980s are farmore likely to have and accept
platonic friendships compared toolder generations.
Gen X and boomers, however, grewup with strong taboos marriage
often marked the end of anyexisting platonic friendships
(01:31):
especially of the opposite sexor gender they're attracted to.
Basically what the research isshowing is that younger adults,
millennials and Gen Z generallyhave just more fluid views on
friendship across gender andtheir social norms have shifted.
So it's like more common for youto have such a variety of
(01:52):
friendships with people whoidentify in many different ways
that you carry with you, eventhrough the ins and outs of your
relationships.
I was thinking about this topicbecause I was watching the show
on Apple TV called Platonic.
And basically it's premise isthe two main characters are best
friends, they were best friendslike in college and then they
(02:14):
had a falling out and so theyhadn't talked to each other in
years and then they reconnect.
The show is about theirfriendship.
They're also both in like aweird place in life, so they
kind of get each other but thewhole premise is that they've
always just got each other causethey've always been such good
friends.
It's an interesting dynamic towatch it play out.
(02:36):
I was watching it with mypartner and the female main
character, her husband wasencouraging her to reach out to
the friend because he had gotrecently divorced and so he knew
that they had a falling out andhe was like really, really
pushing it, pushing it.
And so my partner was like.
I don't understand why would heencourage her to go hang out
(02:57):
with this dude?
Instead of just hanging out withhim.
And I'm like, well, theyprobably were really, really
close.
He was like, yeah, no and Iagree like I never would've
accepted it and I won't acceptit today and that's that.
Loose, low key friendship, sure.
Yeah.
What did you like about theirfriendship dynamic on the show?
(03:17):
It's like you're almost talkingto a bro and so the thing about
platonic friendships, where it'sthe same gender that you're
attracted to.
Is that attraction is so fickle,sometimes you create good
relationships with people but ithas nothing to do with any kind
of attraction.
There is a level of intimacy tothe friendship but it's never
(03:38):
like a romantic level, it'salmost like two guys hanging
out.
What about you?
I do have male friends butthey're not heterosexual.
I don't have any, like anybody Iwould consider like a best
friend.
That was male ever in my life,and I think my experience and a
lot of people that I grew upwith had similar experiences is
(03:58):
that any type of friendship witha guy, eventually at some point
these guys catch feelings orthey think, oh, like we're
getting along so well, so theremust be a spark.
And I think partially it'sbecause what you're saying is
that typically andstereotypically when they're all
together as dudes, it's not ascommon for them to be deep and
(04:20):
emotionally intimate in thatway.
I've had that a few times and Ithink partially why I've had
successful platonic friendships,where it's the same gender that
you're attracted to, is cause Ihave limits for myself of how
deep I'm willing to go withpeople.
So like, although it is a littlebit more deep than what they're
used to with other people butfor the most part, I also know
(04:45):
and have experienced that.
So in order to be a successfulfriend to people, I do not cross
boundaries.
Yeah.
This is a friendship.
Yeah.
Like you, you're misreading thesignals here.
I appreciate that they're doingthis show from the perspective
that it is supposed to highlightlike a deep platonic friendship
and what this means and how eveneverybody around them in the
(05:06):
show is like questioning it allthe time.
And they're okay with theirfriendship, but people around
them are like, that's weird.
You shouldn't be hanging outwith them that much or you
shouldn't be hanging out withher that much.
You guys are too invested ineach other's lives and the whole
thing but I do think that it isa refreshing, interesting take
on it.
Then I started wondering, Iwonder if it's different for
(05:28):
younger generations than it isfor us.
And come to find out.
Yeah, that it is.
Do you think the friendshipthat's portrayed on the show.
Would work in real life?
It becomes really tricky whenyou have a friendship of that
kind of depth and that kind ofcomfort.
(05:49):
There will come a time if youlean in too hard that your
partners will be like, what isthis?
What are you doing?
Yeah cause there's multipleparts to any relationship.
Right?
And the main ones are thephysical and then the emotional.
So people emotionally cheat alot.
Like you see this at work,right?
(06:10):
They have their work husband ortheir work wife.
I really don't get that.
But they're not like physicallycheating but a lot of people I
know would say, nuh, that'sstill cheating.
Like you are developing anintimate relationship with
somebody, whether there'sphysical things involved or not.
I also think of Big Red flag isthat if you have a platonic
(06:32):
friendship with someone and theonly thing you do is complain
about your partner, you don'thave a platonic friendship.
No.
The truth is you should be ableto be celebrating your partner
with your friends and so that isone of the biggest red flags for
me.
If I have platonic friendshipsand then all they're doing is
saying all these negative thingsabout people that they're
dating.
(06:52):
That's a red flag to me aboutthem.
So again, if you really wanna bea platonic friend to someone of
the same gender that you'reattracted to you have to have
very clear boundaries foryourself as well.
And check yourself too.
It's gotta be a two-way street.
If at any point in time thoseboundaries are blurred or those
lines are crossed and you don'tcorrect them.
(07:13):
Then it's not a platonicfriendship.
I mean on the show, the malecharacter is very supportive and
super positive and very kindabout his friend's husband.
And he'd like,"I love that guy"like, he actually wants to hang
out with him too and it's awhole thing, right?
So there's also the dynamic oflike if you all were friends
(07:36):
before, and then two of thepeople in the friendship get
married or become coupled up.
One of'em is still really goodfriends with that person but you
all were friends at some point.
Does that change the dynamic?
Yeah.
But why?
Because some younger people aregonna argue with you and say,
(07:56):
no.
You have to be very self awareto see that it changes.
When you get feelings involvedwith anything, things change and
whether it doesn't change foryou, that doesn't mean that it
doesn't change for the otherpeople involved.
And if you're a truly goodfriend, you're gonna understand
it.
Let's play a quick platonic ornot game.
I'll give you short scenariosand you guess whether they're
(08:19):
platonic or not so platonic.
Then explain why you think so.
Maybe.
Scenario one, Alex texts Taylorlate at night to vent, ending
with, I Wish you were hereinstead.
No.
That crosses the emotionalintimacy boundary.
That's a red flag.
I would throw that phonestraight out the window instead.
(08:40):
I wish you were here sure.
Instead?
Yeah.
No, no.
Yeah.
That's the key word here.
Instead.
Pay attention to the clues.
Too much.
Okay.
Scenario two.
Jordan and Casey have been bestfriends since college.
They hang out often, includingwith Jordan's partner and
everyone gets along.
(09:01):
Is that a platonic relationship?
Yeah.
Platonic or, or not?
Probably.
Yeah.
Explain why.
Because they're all hanging outtogether.
And there's no secrets.
They're just all involved.
You scored a plus.
Scenario three.
Sam deletes messages from theirfriend RI before their partner
can see them.
(09:23):
No, that's a red flag.
Oh my God.
Why would you, why would therebe a need to delete them if
nothing's going on?
For sure.
If you're hiding like anymessages or communication or
there's any kind of secrecy,that's not good.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
That's too much secrecy there'salso some distrust there already
(09:43):
because you think that yourpartner might look in your
phone.
So there's the potential forthat too.
All the way around.
Not platonic.
Scenario four.
Jamie hugs their opposite sexfriend regularly and tells them
"Love you" after every hangout,but always in front of their
spouse.
And everyone knows it's playful.
(10:05):
I think as long as the spouse isokay with it, then it's fine.
I think if at any point thespouse is not comfortable with
that and feels like it sends amessage that they don't like,
then it's a no-go.
I agree.
I think it's platonic but ifit's not like their average
dynamic, then it's weird.
Yeah and I do feel like I trustin the intuition that we have to
(10:29):
tell us if that feels wrong,like if it feels inauthentic.
Okay.
One more.
Riley invites their opposite sexfriend Jordan to help them move
afterward.
They grab dinner alone and talkabout life, career and their
future goals.
Riley texts their partner to saythey're running late, but
doesn't mention who they'rewith.
(10:50):
That's a little shaddy.
Did they intentionally notinclude the name or did they
like just forget, or what wasthe intention behind it?
I think that's a good questionbecause it is borderline not so
platonic.
This is where we talked abouthaving really good boundaries
for yourself if you're gonnahave platonic relationships with
people that you couldpotentially be attracted to and
(11:12):
a partnership with somebodyelse, because you have to be
really clear with yourself thatyou're doing right by your
partner.
Or if you're doing it and itfeels uncomfortable, if you're
like, oh, I need to keep this asecret'cause it's gonna make it
uncomfortable, then that's abigger question you need to ask
yourself.
Because if that flag is raisingfor you, then maybe it's not the
(11:33):
best situation to be in.
It could be a toxicrelationship.
Yeah.
That feels like a secret whenyou're hiding somebody.
Or what if, the BFF has yourpartner down as their emergency
contact?
Do they have no one else?
I think that answered thatquestion and they're just flying
solo, then like Sure.
(11:54):
But if they have like familyand, and other close people,
let's just say they have otherfriends and family.
Their sister lives nearby butthey're close to them or no.
I'd just show up with them.
Yeah.
But that'd be weird.
That sounds like a job forSherlock Holmes, I put my
Sherlock Holmes hat on.
Or their best friend bakes thema loaf of chocolate chip bread
(12:20):
as a gift.
But ne never bakes anything foranybody else.
No, I'd FaceTimed their bestfriend eating the bread.
Thank you for sending it.
I'm so grateful.
I really had a sweet tooth.
Thank you so much.
You're like, this is good, butlisten here bitch.
(12:40):
Don't you ever send anotherfucking baked good my way again.
Or I'd be like, I'm so glad thatyou baked him this, which means
you baked it for me.
And we both know that.
Right?
Right., Just kidding.
You're too nice.
Too nice.
I would FaceTime them with my,you better not bake another
(13:02):
fucking thing again and send itto my house but I would be in
front of their house FaceTimingthem.
Oh my God.
I would just video myself eatingit in front of their house.
I just want you to know, I knowwhere you live.
Hey, listen, if you're not gonnago big, then just go home.
I'm like learning so much rightnow because in my head I was
(13:24):
like, I've never had that levelof friendship with people.
Like, I mean, yeah, we'll golike to a cafe and then they'll
talk to me or I'll go tobookstore and they'll talk to me
or go eat.
And the women have still beenreally mad at the guys for being
friends with me at the levelthat are had.
At a lower level.
At a very low level compared tothat.
And this is why this is a realquestion, right?
Can you actually have a trueplatonic best friend, like next
(13:50):
level engagement in your life.
While you are coupled up withsomebody else.
I'm really realizing a lot.
Have I ever had a best friend?
Hold on, let's rewind to I'mlike, wait minute first part of
the question.
Why is this not registering withme?
So like if you're in aheterosexual relationship and
(14:11):
for you, you're a partner at athis next level best friend that
was a another woman.
Is she hot?
I don't think it matters.
It does matter.
No, I don't think it does.
Is she hot though?
Please, I've seen people cheatwith some ugly people.
Ugly people need love too and itdoes happen because they develop
emotional intimacy and thatchanges things.
(14:31):
I mean, you've met people thatmaybe you didn't find all that
attractive.
Yeah I've dated them.
And then when you, and then whenyou talk to them, you're like,
oh, you're kind of attractive'cause I like your personality.
I think you're thoughtful orwhatever.
What do you feel about it?
Do you think so?
No.
You're like, I already saidthat.
I mean, I think that's prettyclear, right?
Yeah, because you're offendedthat I'm even considering.
Yeah.
I'm offended by everythingyou're saying to me.
(14:52):
I think again, yes, there'slevels to friendships.
So I think as long as you are,you stay in that shallow level
of friendship.
So it has to be baby pool.
Kitty pool shallow only.
That's why I said I think youhave to have very strict
boundaries as a person becausehere's the thing, like you said,
sexual attraction, emotionalattraction, attraction happens.
(15:16):
We are all aware that sometimesit doesn't fit the guidelines or
the box or on paper or whatever.
And so just having a mutualsense of respect for your
partner, you should establishboundaries for yourself that you
do not cross, so you never haveto cross your partner.
If you're my partner, don'tcross me.
But you get what I'm sayingthough.
(15:36):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's like you wanna make surethat you have those boundaries
intact so that way you don'tcause trouble.
Some people get really excitedabout causing trouble in their
relationships.
Like they enjoy that shit andit's so like to me, sorry, like
that's boring, you're boring.
We're gonna take an emotionalmental health break now so that
Mitch can get it together.
Okay.
We're back together now.
(15:57):
Or how people use that, which wewere talking about people we
know.
In this, this exact scenariowhere the girlfriend, commented
about somebody else showinginterest in her to her partner
to upset the partner.
Like, there's a certain kind ofattention you're trying to get.
Out of something like that whenyou're trying to egg on drama.
(16:20):
We have to be conscientious ofthe fact that some people have
narratives in their head foryou.
Or they'll even do that, like infriendships where it's like, oh
yeah, my friend, you know, theybrought me flowers on my
birthday.
And you didn't.
Right?
That's why I said like for me, Ihave found solace in having, you
know, male friends sometimes'cause there's not that
(16:42):
comparison game that I havefound often in my female
friendships.
Not for all of them some of youguys are great, but yeah.
Do you think the dynamics shiftin different types of
relationships?
Oh yeah.
Polyamory, non-traditionalpartnerships, they're more open.
Yeah.
To this dynamic.
Yes.
I've seen many and I've knownmany people, that their partners
(17:03):
are with the same gender, thegender that they're attracted
to.
For instance, Ted is dating Nickand Nick's best friend is Mike,
but Mike is a straight man.
But what if Mike is a queer guy?
I've seen that too.
Yeah.
I feel like in heterosexualrelationships, there's a lot of
hiding and conformity.
(17:24):
And so because of that, I mean,it plays out in so many
different ways, right?
That we conform to thestereotypical gender roles that
are assigned, right?
And so I think that that is whypeople who are in heterosexual
relationships have a differentrelationship with the concept of
(17:44):
sharing the intimacy of yourpartner with other people.
Because that's really what itis, right?
But knowing that you're, orbelieving or having that trust
that your partner's telling youthe truth.
And is consistent and is inve asinvested as you.
I don't think there's a lot ofresearch around like polyamorous
relationships, but.
I know that that has grownsignificantly with younger
(18:07):
generations.
Yeah.
And I would be really curious toknow how often there are
conflicts because of emotionalintimacy.
Maybe not the physical intimacy'cause I can see from my
perspective that like these typeof open relationships are open
to physical intimacy with otherpeople.
But is it, is the same true forthe emotional intimacy for other
(18:31):
people?
Yeah.
And I'd also counter that yourdynamic with your partner is
different because you guys areboth very invested in each
other.
You're saying people are notinvested in each other.
Yes.
And there's a lot ofrelationships like that.
It's just a business agreementor it's a, it's very
(18:54):
intentionally superficial orwhatever it might be.
And it's not so much thatthey're invested in one another
or one person's more invested inthe other.
You know what I'm saying?
That I've seen so many differentdynamics at this point in my
life.
That I'm like, maybe that's whyyou guys feel so strongly about
that'cause it is a common value.
(19:14):
But most importantly, you guysare so invested in being good
partners to one another.
And that's not always the case.
No.
But I think we, we've, we know alot of people who are invested
in each other and genuinely havegood intentions for their
relationships.
I think for us it is ourpersonal values, but it's also
tied to our cultural values andit's also tied to our
(19:37):
generational values.
And we have an understandingthat it's the way we both want
to show up in the relationshipfor each other.
Like in the same way that Iwould be like, oh hell no.
He would also be that way too.
And you have to communicate whatthe boundaries are, and I think
that's important.
(19:58):
You have to, you have tocommunicate in your
relationships and you have to beable to communicate to your
partner and them to you.
What feels comfortable anduncomfortable for them.
And you have to be willing toadjust and like compromise in
that, right?
Like not change 100%, but likeif someone is concerned like,
Hey, your friendship with thisperson is just.
(20:20):
A little too over the top.
They don't need to come to myparents' anniversary dinner with
us.
Or they don't need to be in theroom when you're giving birth to
our child.
Like we need to have someboundaries here then.
Yeah, those conversations needto be had.
Because I think in anyrelationship with any
relationship topic, the peopleinvolved in the relationship
have to be 100% on board and inagreement.
(20:43):
With what the boundaries andlimitations are within that
relationship.
And if you are not, the secondone person is no longer in
agreement and let, and let mesay that can change, right?
Especially with long lastingrelationships.
Those relationships evolve anddevelop, and that can change.
So that means that theexpectations can also change.
(21:04):
That's why you have to haveconstant communication.
Yeah, I agree.
So what would you say are someof the green flags in a platonic
friendship?
Inclusivity, making sure thatyou include your partner with
your best friend once in awhile.
Doesn't have to be all the time,and making sure that they feel
(21:26):
like they're welcome and thatthey, their presence is enjoyed.
Cause I feel like if you havelike that weird kind of dynamic
with a platonic friend and, itfeels like, invite only kind of
vibe.
That could be really rough.
People who talk about having awork wife or work husband, and I
think most often than notthey'll describe that as like a
(21:47):
platonic friendship, and some ofthem will even be like, oh yeah,
this is like my BFF We've justspent so much time together at
work and we're just still closenow.
Is that acceptable?
No.
I agree.
Next question.
Listen, never acceptable.
I don't like the whole likework, wife, work, husband,
(22:08):
because I think you're labelingit as a different kind of
relationship.
And that to me feelsdisrespectful to the other
people's partners.
And I don't know if that's justmy generational take, but.
If I found out my partner wascalling somebody, his work wife,
you better believe some shit'sabout to blow up.
(22:30):
I'm not a fan of that.
I had, I had a bad experiencewith that, so no, I'm not a fan
of that.
Yeah.
I had one partner that didn'ttell me anything about any work
wife and then he got a birthdaycard from his work and the girl
signed it, love work husband.
And I was like, who the fuck isshe?
I think it's relative to timingtoo, because like yeah, you do
(22:53):
spend a lot of time at work andyou do create bonds with people
sometimes, but that oneparticularly, she had started
like three months prior.
I was like, that's a big redflag.
That's a huge red flag for me.
I would say more often than not,I do know people who have
claimed a work wife or workhusband, and I believe that it
was a very platonic situation.
(23:14):
But that's not the majority.
The majority has been that atsome point it has come out that
there was some sort of affairthat has happened.
Or like feelings.
Either before or after thepartner, the long-term partner,
came into the picture.
Mm-hmm.
And I swear to God, I've calledit every single time.
I'm like, Nope.
100% cheater.
(23:35):
And people are like, oh my gosh,you're just so old school.
You're just too traditional.
Like you don't understand.
It's totally platonic.
I kid you not every single oneof those that I can think of
right now came back and waslike, you'll never guess.
Like, of course I can guess.
'cause I guessed it then.
Yeah.
I've had one friendship thatcame out of a work environment.
And he liked me and I had aboyfriend during that time and
(23:57):
then I broke up with theboyfriend and then he was like,
I like you.
But I should have known, becausewhen we were at work one time,
he took his shirt off.
And he walked out from the back.
With no shirt on and he was inincredible shape and I was like,
what the, and I had to like runto my office to get away from
him.
Oh no.
Oh no.
He was right.
(24:18):
My ex-boyfriend was Right,right.
Had to run away from him.
And then he was like, the factthat you had to run'cause I told
him.
Yeah.
I thought that was part of likebeing in a relationship is that
you have to be very like,transparent and tell your
partners everything.
And maybe it still is, but yeah,he did not like that story.
(24:39):
He got very upset.
Okay.
What about exes who didn't workout but then became quote
unquote best friends?
No.
I have an ex story time whostill follows me on Instagram, I
do not follow him and there's nohard feelings.
Our lives have gone verydifferent directions, but the
(25:00):
way we met was that he told histhen girlfriend that I was his
best friend.
I had never met him before andthen months later we got
together.
We had a bad ending, but then weended up becoming like kind of
friends'cause we run in the samesocial groups and then he wanted
to be friends after that and hewould tell his then partners
(25:24):
that I was his best friend.
And then I had to put theboundary.
Super shady.
That is shady behavior.
And that is more often the casethan not.
Yeah.
So I I, unless your ex turnedout to be gay.
Then you can be best friendswith them.
There's some caveats.
Yeah, there's a barrier.
(25:44):
I think then I think the ex thenbecomes a no go for BFF status
if you get into a long-termcommitted relationship with
somebody else.
I also don't like the fact thatlike they've seen them naked.
Yeah.
That's weird.
You can't be friends withsomebody that you've seen naked.
(26:06):
I think you can.
No.
Oh no a hot millennial take.
If you've seen me naked, it's ano go but if you wanna go to
secret Starbucks with your,opposite gender, BF that's cool.
Go ahead.
You do your thing.
But if you've seen her naked, wehave a problem.
I feel like that is a boundary.
(26:27):
Let's talk about, differentscenarios.
Okay.
Would you be cool with, and thenwe're gonna fill in the blank.
Okay.
Okay.
Would you be cool with yourpartner going on a weekend trip
with their opposite sex bestfriend?
Just the two of'em?
I don't know that I would feelcomfortable with that unless it
was like a destination wedding.
They were gonna like a weddingof a friend or something like
that.
But then why aren't you going tothat wedding?
(26:49):
Maybe I didn't want to.
All right, fair enough.
If that's the case, then Iwouldn't really care.
Like if it's a college thing andthey're all going together.
It's going, they're going to twoof them, but they're meeting
other people.
Sure but that would still feelkind of weird.
Yeah, that would be really awkotaco and it's a hard pass for
me.
Don't even bring it up'causeit's just not gonna, it's not
(27:10):
gonna go up.
I think that's where the weird,the gray flags, blurred gray
flags.
Yeah.
Okay.
Your partner calls their BFF.
The only person who really getsme, I move out the next day.
You like motherfucker, what havewe been doing this entire time?
Am I a lamp?
Like, who are, who are you?
Who are you?
(27:30):
Unless you all of a sudden areChris Hemsworth.
I do have one story where, likean exter to me, and I said, just
because we're you, your partneris supposed to be your best
friend.
And he's like, you're not mybest friend and I looked at him
and I was like, excuse me.
And he was like, yeah, I don'tthink that, I don't think your
partner's supposed to be yourbest friend.
People have a variety ofresponses to that take.
(27:53):
I'm torn because yes, you shouldhave such a closeness and an
intimacy with your partner And Ido think there is, for some
people, a place for you to havea best friend relationship
outside of that relationshipthat you have with your partner.
Sometimes they're one and thesame.
Yeah.
Not all the time.
(28:14):
Okay, to be fair, I'm also thekind of person that calls five
people my best friend.
But also if that's the kind ofrelationship you want for
yourself, then that's reallyimportant to know like my
partner is my best friend.
I literally tell that maneverything and he tells me
everything like we talk tearoyalty.
Like, you guys are so close thatI know that if I tell you
(28:35):
something, he probably knows it.
It depends on what it is butthat's why because listen, your
girl still a vault.
Okay.
You're hanging out with yourpartner and they're bestie and
they are laughing about aninside joke that you are not a
part of.
And they don't explain it toyou?
No.
Okay.
This is just rude.
It's exclusionary, right?
(28:55):
They're like leaving you out.
That's not a green flag.
Remember green flags areinclusive.
It's like that show, what is it?
How I met your mother when oneTed and Robin have like yes.
Inside jokes and they laugh.
It's so disrespectful.
Also, we saw how that.
How that played out.
And they were exes that becamereally those friends, quote
unquote best friends.
Which was all bullshit.
(29:15):
Your partner has late nightFaceTimes with the BFF while you
are in bed together?
No.
Are you unbothered or is this anabsolute.
Late night so this is multiple,yeah.
FaceTimes.
Okay.
It's situational to me.
I'm unbothered.
If they live far and once in awhile they have a FaceTime, if
they're FaceTiming every weekand it's like a ritual and it's
(29:38):
in bed and I'm sitting, I wouldbe like, I'm really glad that
you feel like you need to talkto them near me.
But this feels weird.
I would probably bring it up andsay like that feels strange.
Because there's no, they're notbeing secretive.
Right?
Yeah.
So they're being really open.
So that's nice.
But the other part is like, doyou have to tell them goodnight
every Friday or what's going on?
(30:00):
Yeah, I would not be okay withit.
Your partner says, I love you atthe end of every convo with
their BFF, it's like, okay, loveyou, bye.
Is that platonic affection or isit crossing the line?
I don't mind that.
In fact, I think they should sayit to their same gendered
friends as well.
If you have friendships with agender that you are attracted to
(30:22):
and you're telling them, I loveyou, you better be saying it to
the other ones that you're notattracted to.
To, yeah.
If that's your like dynamic,then I don't care.
Yeah.
I mean, I tell my friends,actual friends that sometimes.
Like, I love you honey, or youknow, I really appreciate you.
You're amazing.
I don't know, just likeaffirmations of care.
Yeah.
Sometimes I just say, love you.
One time I went to a friend'sbirthday party and I had a
(30:45):
really good conversation withone of his friends.
And she was a female.
I'm not attracted to her orwhatever but I was like, I had
such a fun time that at the endof the thing I went, okay, love
you.
And she stared at me like, noyou don't.
And I was like.
Oh, well that ruined everything.
She hasn't talked to me, butit's the dynamic I have with my
(31:05):
female friends.
Yeah.
Is that at the end of the nightswe go"Love you" and it's not
like I'm admitting my love toyou.
Like, I'm not in love with you.
Yeah.
It was the weirdest anyway, backto the.
Okay.
Their BFF has a key to yourapartment just in case.
No.
Nope.
Yeah, that's too much.
I think unless it's a dualfriendship.
(31:29):
Like you guys are both bestfriends with this person and
they're very involved in yourlife, then the, maybe that would
be different but if it's justlike a one-sided, like that's
just your partner's best friendand now they have a key to your
apartment.
That's too much.
My family would have a key to myapartment, but not my best
friend.
It depends because what if yourfamily doesn't live nearby and
your friend has to come plant itfor you?
(31:51):
Then I'll leave her a key in alockbox.
Okay.
Your partner confides in theirbest friend about your
relationship problems.
We kind of talked about this alittle bit, but healthy outlet
or betrayal.
This is where I feel like it'sthat gray area'cause emotional
oversharing is a real problemsometimes and it actually causes
(32:12):
distrust in relationships.
And it can cause your partnersto feel like you're actually
betraying their trust if you'rejust consistently emotionally
oversharing outside of therelationship.
Yeah but a lot of people go totheir friends for relationship
advice.
Yeah, and maybe you should thinkabout that as an adult.
Have they ever given you goodrelationship advice?
(32:35):
Who are you asking?
Right.
What is their relationship like?
Like are you going to McDonald'sand be like, can you teach me
how to make a full mignon?
Yeah.
No, they cannot.
Are you on a subway and hopingthat you're going to a Michelin
star restaurant?
I'm just kidding.
Maybe they do give you greatadvice or they're like, like a
door stopper and they're honestand they like, they're
comfortable with checking you.
(32:56):
And so you feel like you cancheck in with them about things,
that's fine but if you'reemotionally oversharing to the
point where you're constantly,bashing your partnership or
something.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, it's, it's sticky when itcomes to that'cause you're
right, some people don't likeairing their dirty laundry to
other people.
They like to keep it containedthey don't want people knowing
(33:16):
all their business.
And then some people are like,okay with it.
'cause they're also doing itwith their friends, so they'd
probably be like, yeah, sure,whatever.
Yeah, ask your friends foradvice.
It's not a big deal.
Like my thing is always this,here's my rule of thumb, if I
share something with my friendabout my relationship.
Not my sister because my sisterknows everything.
(33:36):
So she's looking at you anywhich way.
I'm judging you no matter whatbecause yes, she does know your
penis size.
I'm just kidding.
I'm joking.
I know way too much about somepeople out there in the world.
But if it's a best friend and I,my rule thumb is if I say
something about that, you to mybest friend and our relationship
isn't ending.
(33:57):
It's gotta be something that'sokay enough for them not to
judge you when you walk back inthe room.
That's my rule measure.
I don't want them to be makingharsh judgements on the partner
because they don't really knowthe full context.
So I'm always conscientious ofthat'cause I don't want them to.
My family, on the other hand,they, they know everything, so
(34:19):
gloves off.
Sorry.
Okay.
Your partner is postingthrowback pics of them and their
BFF hugging or cuddling.
No.
Sentimental.
Too bad you can't lightInstagram on fire.
Yeah, you just put the flameemoji.
But that means something else,huh?
Yeah, because fire means a goodthing.
(34:42):
That would be a great skit.
Make that happen.
LOL.
Yeah, that's crossing thosedisrespectful lines there.
That's a lot like why?
Okay.
What about if they're, okay, I'mgonna play devil's advocate.
They're posting throwback picsbecause it's their best friend's
like birthday or likeanniversary.
(35:02):
And they're like, look at allthese pictures of us friend's
throughout the years.
I think it would bother methough.
I wouldn't be in this scenario'cause I'm not cool with it.
I wouldn't care if it was likesomething like a once in a
lifetime day or once in a year,kind of day.
Once a year you can post apicture, you can post pictures
in reminse on your friendship.
I think that's fine.
(35:23):
If it was like just like aThursday in August and they were
like, you know, I just reallymissed them, but they also saw
them last week, I'd be like,what is this?
It could be a red flag.
Something is wrong.
Your partner is spending moreone-on-one time with their
platonic BFF than they are withyou.
Some weeks life happens.
Or is this a total imbalance?
(35:43):
I think it's an imbalance.
Like if you're getting thefriendship time and they're
getting the relationship time.
That's not okay.
I think time is your mostvaluable commodity.
So if you are oversharing itoutside of your relationship,
yeah.
It's definitely a problem.
And I would ask myself some deepquestions if I was the person
(36:06):
doing that.
Yeah.
You know, because sometimes wedon't realize that there are
relationships that we admirebecause they check those boxes
or they fill certain criteria.
But then there's the dynamics wehave with other people or
friendships that you're allowedto be a certain version of
yourself.
(36:26):
That maybe doesn't fit yourpersonal choice of a
relationship or a romanticrelationship.
And I think when you findyourself with those crossroads,
you have to face those thingshead on or you're gonna end up
in trouble.
Yeah.
Your partner is calling theirBFF their soulmate in a
(36:46):
non-romantic way.
You know my hot take?
That's a hot.
I hope your soulmate has roomfor you and your shit.
I think that's weird.
That would probably get me, asthe children say, crash out.
I'd probably crash out and not'cause I'm sleeping.
Well just'cause like, I feellike that's so disrespectful to
(37:08):
someone who you're trying tobuild a life with.
Yeah.
So if you're, like, if you're ina serious relationship and you
have established that you guysare trying to work towards
something together, and then yousay like, oh, but my best friend
is my soulmate, by the way.
My platonic best friend who'sthe same gender of the genders
that you're sexually attractedto is your soulmate, quote
(37:29):
unquote soulmate, then thatmeans I'm number two and I'm not
number two ever.
Yeah.
I think that's a relationshipthat maybe isn't gonna last.
'Cause I think that that, so,okay, so with that being said,
then those relationships can'texist.
That statement that I just made,Uhhuh just proved that those
relationships can't actuallyexist past a certain point.
(37:51):
So what do you think thetakeaway is?
Uh, that I've grown a lot fromthe beginning of this episode to
now.
I'm just kidding.
I think the takeaway is thatplatonic love is real but you
gotta be really intentionalabout it, just like you would
(38:13):
anything good in your life.
Yeah.
So if you're gonna have platonicfriendships, despite whether
they are from the gender thatyou're attracted to or not and
you also wanna cultivate a veryhealthy, mature, serious
relationship with somebodythat's romantic.
You always have to be mindful ofthe fact that things can impact
(38:36):
your partner in certain waysthat boundaries could
potentially be crossed, and thatyou wanna really.
Heavily rely on effectivecommunication and understanding
to try to build that level oftrust with your partner.
Yeah.
Your romantic relationshipsdon't need to take up every
moment of your time.
(38:56):
They definitely should beprioritized.
'cause any partner who'sinvested in that relationship
wants to be a priority.
Okay, so final thoughts.
Can you be in a relationship andhave a platonic bestie?
The answer is not one size fitsall.
It depends on trust, boundariesand communication, and whether
(39:17):
everyone involved.
Feels safe and respected.
Yeah.
And whether you're the friend,the partner, or just watching
this all play out from thesidelines, platonic love is real
powerful and sometimescomplicated, but it's also worth
protecting.
So whether your BFF is yourforever friend, your emotional
support human, or you'reunofficial therapist, just
(39:39):
remember it's okay to ask thehard questions, set boundaries,
and get clear on what feelsright for you and your partner.
And if your partner's BFF, isstarting to fill like a third
wheel in your relationship, itmight be time for an honest
check-in, not a blowout.
If you like this combo, don'tforget to subscribe.
(39:59):
Leave us a review and share theepisode with your bestie your
Boo, or that friend you're notsure how to label.
Thanks for hanging out with us.
Until next time, stay grounded,stay curious, and maybe go text
your platonic soulmate just tosay, hey, I see you.
Bye bye.
Welcome back to Andy and Mitch,the podcast where two sisters,
two generations, and two wildlydifferent group chat vibes come
together to talk life, love, andeverything in between.
Today we are asking, can someonein a committed relationship have
a deep, true, platonic bestfriend.
Where's the line between bestieand emotional intimacy overload?
(00:24):
What happens when your partnerstarts feeling a little third
wheelish?
We're diving into stories, hottakes, generational perspective,
and so much more.
So grab your cafecito or yourmacha latte and let's get into
it.
Can people in a committedrelationship actually have deep,
true, platonic best friends, andspecifically of the opposite sex
(00:49):
or a gender that they'reattracted to.
I think this topic comes up alot, especially when you talk
with friends aboutrelationships.
Friends who are newrelationships or a relationship
that's starting to get seriousand then.
It never fails that there's somesort of friend or friendship
that is a question mark.
Like, are we okay with this ornot?
(01:10):
So according to the data,millennials and Gen Zs born
roughly around the 1980s are farmore likely to have and accept
platonic friendships compared toolder generations.
Gen X and boomers, however, grewup with strong taboos marriage
often marked the end of anyexisting platonic friendships
(01:31):
especially of the opposite sexor gender they're attracted to.
Basically what the research isshowing is that younger adults,
millennials and Gen Z generallyhave just more fluid views on
friendship across gender andtheir social norms have shifted.
So it's like more common for youto have such a variety of
(01:52):
friendships with people whoidentify in many different ways
that you carry with you, eventhrough the ins and outs of your
relationships.
I was thinking about this topicbecause I was watching the show
on Apple TV called Platonic.
And basically it's premise isthe two main characters are best
friends, they were best friendslike in college and then they
(02:14):
had a falling out and so theyhadn't talked to each other in
years and then they reconnect.
The show is about theirfriendship.
They're also both in like aweird place in life, so they
kind of get each other but thewhole premise is that they've
always just got each other causethey've always been such good
friends.
It's an interesting dynamic towatch it play out.
(02:36):
I was watching it with mypartner and the female main
character, her husband wasencouraging her to reach out to
the friend because he had gotrecently divorced and so he knew
that they had a falling out andhe was like really, really
pushing it, pushing it.
And so my partner was like.
I don't understand why would heencourage her to go hang out
(02:57):
with this dude?
Instead of just hanging out withhim.
And I'm like, well, theyprobably were really, really
close.
He was like, yeah, no and Iagree like I never would've
accepted it and I won't acceptit today and that's that.
Loose, low key friendship, sure.
Yeah.
What did you like about theirfriendship dynamic on the show?
(03:17):
It's like you're almost talkingto a bro and so the thing about
platonic friendships, where it'sthe same gender that you're
attracted to.
Is that attraction is so fickle,sometimes you create good
relationships with people but ithas nothing to do with any kind
of attraction.
There is a level of intimacy tothe friendship but it's never
(03:38):
like a romantic level, it'salmost like two guys hanging
out.
What about you?
I do have male friends butthey're not heterosexual.
I don't have any, like anybody Iwould consider like a best
friend.
That was male ever in my life,and I think my experience and a
lot of people that I grew upwith had similar experiences is
(03:58):
that any type of friendship witha guy, eventually at some point
these guys catch feelings orthey think, oh, like we're
getting along so well, so theremust be a spark.
And I think partially it'sbecause what you're saying is
that typically andstereotypically when they're all
together as dudes, it's not ascommon for them to be deep and
(04:20):
emotionally intimate in thatway.
I've had that a few times and Ithink partially why I've had
successful platonic friendships,where it's the same gender that
you're attracted to, is cause Ihave limits for myself of how
deep I'm willing to go withpeople.
So like, although it is a littlebit more deep than what they're
used to with other people butfor the most part, I also know
(04:45):
and have experienced that.
So in order to be a successfulfriend to people, I do not cross
boundaries.
Yeah.
This is a friendship.
Yeah.
Like you, you're misreading thesignals here.
I appreciate that they're doingthis show from the perspective
that it is supposed to highlightlike a deep platonic friendship
and what this means and how eveneverybody around them in the
(05:06):
show is like questioning it allthe time.
And they're okay with theirfriendship, but people around
them are like, that's weird.
You shouldn't be hanging outwith them that much or you
shouldn't be hanging out withher that much.
You guys are too invested ineach other's lives and the whole
thing but I do think that it isa refreshing, interesting take
on it.
Then I started wondering, Iwonder if it's different for
(05:28):
younger generations than it isfor us.
And come to find out.
Yeah, that it is.
Do you think the friendshipthat's portrayed on the show.
Would work in real life?
It becomes really tricky whenyou have a friendship of that
kind of depth and that kind ofcomfort.
(05:49):
There will come a time if youlean in too hard that your
partners will be like, what isthis?
What are you doing?
Yeah cause there's multipleparts to any relationship.
Right?
And the main ones are thephysical and then the emotional.
So people emotionally cheat alot.
Like you see this at work,right?
(06:10):
They have their work husband ortheir work wife.
I really don't get that.
But they're not like physicallycheating but a lot of people I
know would say, nuh, that'sstill cheating.
Like you are developing anintimate relationship with
somebody, whether there'sphysical things involved or not.
I also think of Big Red flag isthat if you have a platonic
(06:32):
friendship with someone and theonly thing you do is complain
about your partner, you don'thave a platonic friendship.
No.
The truth is you should be ableto be celebrating your partner
with your friends and so that isone of the biggest red flags for
me.
If I have platonic friendshipsand then all they're doing is
saying all these negative thingsabout people that they're
dating.
(06:52):
That's a red flag to me aboutthem.
So again, if you really wanna bea platonic friend to someone of
the same gender that you'reattracted to you have to have
very clear boundaries foryourself as well.
And check yourself too.
It's gotta be a two-way street.
If at any point in time thoseboundaries are blurred or those
lines are crossed and you don'tcorrect them.
(07:13):
Then it's not a platonicfriendship.
I mean on the show, the malecharacter is very supportive and
super positive and very kindabout his friend's husband.
And he'd like,"I love that guy"like, he actually wants to hang
out with him too and it's awhole thing, right?
So there's also the dynamic oflike if you all were friends
(07:36):
before, and then two of thepeople in the friendship get
married or become coupled up.
One of'em is still really goodfriends with that person but you
all were friends at some point.
Does that change the dynamic?
Yeah.
But why?
Because some younger people aregonna argue with you and say,
(07:56):
no.
You have to be very self awareto see that it changes.
When you get feelings involvedwith anything, things change and
whether it doesn't change foryou, that doesn't mean that it
doesn't change for the otherpeople involved.
And if you're a truly goodfriend, you're gonna understand
it.
Let's play a quick platonic ornot game.
I'll give you short scenariosand you guess whether they're
(08:19):
platonic or not so platonic.
Then explain why you think so.
Maybe.
Scenario one, Alex texts Taylorlate at night to vent, ending
with, I Wish you were hereinstead.
No.
That crosses the emotionalintimacy boundary.
That's a red flag.
I would throw that phonestraight out the window instead.
(08:40):
I wish you were here sure.
Instead?
Yeah.
No, no.
Yeah.
That's the key word here.
Instead.
Pay attention to the clues.
Too much.
Okay.
Scenario two.
Jordan and Casey have been bestfriends since college.
They hang out often, includingwith Jordan's partner and
everyone gets along.
(09:01):
Is that a platonic relationship?
Yeah.
Platonic or, or not?
Probably.
Yeah.
Explain why.
Because they're all hanging outtogether.
And there's no secrets.
They're just all involved.
You scored a plus.
Scenario three.
Sam deletes messages from theirfriend RI before their partner
can see them.
(09:23):
No, that's a red flag.
Oh my God.
Why would you, why would therebe a need to delete them if
nothing's going on?
For sure.
If you're hiding like anymessages or communication or
there's any kind of secrecy,that's not good.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
That's too much secrecy there'salso some distrust there already
(09:43):
because you think that yourpartner might look in your
phone.
So there's the potential forthat too.
All the way around.
Not platonic.
Scenario four.
Jamie hugs their opposite sexfriend regularly and tells them
"Love you" after every hangout,but always in front of their
spouse.
And everyone knows it's playful.
(10:05):
I think as long as the spouse isokay with it, then it's fine.
I think if at any point thespouse is not comfortable with
that and feels like it sends amessage that they don't like,
then it's a no-go.
I agree.
I think it's platonic but ifit's not like their average
dynamic, then it's weird.
Yeah and I do feel like I trustin the intuition that we have to
(10:29):
tell us if that feels wrong,like if it feels inauthentic.
Okay.
One more.
Riley invites their opposite sexfriend Jordan to help them move
afterward.
They grab dinner alone and talkabout life, career and their
future goals.
Riley texts their partner to saythey're running late, but
doesn't mention who they'rewith.
(10:50):
That's a little shaddy.
Did they intentionally notinclude the name or did they
like just forget, or what wasthe intention behind it?
I think that's a good questionbecause it is borderline not so
platonic.
This is where we talked abouthaving really good boundaries
for yourself if you're gonnahave platonic relationships with
people that you couldpotentially be attracted to and
(11:12):
a partnership with somebodyelse, because you have to be
really clear with yourself thatyou're doing right by your
partner.
Or if you're doing it and itfeels uncomfortable, if you're
like, oh, I need to keep this asecret'cause it's gonna make it
uncomfortable, then that's abigger question you need to ask
yourself.
Because if that flag is raisingfor you, then maybe it's not the
(11:33):
best situation to be in.
It could be a toxicrelationship.
Yeah.
That feels like a secret whenyou're hiding somebody.
Or what if, the BFF has yourpartner down as their emergency
contact?
Do they have no one else?
I think that answered thatquestion and they're just flying
solo, then like Sure.
(11:54):
But if they have like familyand, and other close people,
let's just say they have otherfriends and family.
Their sister lives nearby butthey're close to them or no.
I'd just show up with them.
Yeah.
But that'd be weird.
That sounds like a job forSherlock Holmes, I put my
Sherlock Holmes hat on.
Or their best friend bakes thema loaf of chocolate chip bread
(12:20):
as a gift.
But ne never bakes anything foranybody else.
No, I'd FaceTimed their bestfriend eating the bread.
Thank you for sending it.
I'm so grateful.
I really had a sweet tooth.
Thank you so much.
You're like, this is good, butlisten here bitch.
(12:40):
Don't you ever send anotherfucking baked good my way again.
Or I'd be like, I'm so glad thatyou baked him this, which means
you baked it for me.
And we both know that.
Right?
Right., Just kidding.
You're too nice.
Too nice.
I would FaceTime them with my,you better not bake another
(13:02):
fucking thing again and send itto my house but I would be in
front of their house FaceTimingthem.
Oh my God.
I would just video myself eatingit in front of their house.
I just want you to know, I knowwhere you live.
Hey, listen, if you're not gonnago big, then just go home.
I'm like learning so much rightnow because in my head I was
(13:24):
like, I've never had that levelof friendship with people.
Like, I mean, yeah, we'll golike to a cafe and then they'll
talk to me or I'll go tobookstore and they'll talk to me
or go eat.
And the women have still beenreally mad at the guys for being
friends with me at the levelthat are had.
At a lower level.
At a very low level compared tothat.
And this is why this is a realquestion, right?
Can you actually have a trueplatonic best friend, like next
(13:50):
level engagement in your life.
While you are coupled up withsomebody else.
I'm really realizing a lot.
Have I ever had a best friend?
Hold on, let's rewind to I'mlike, wait minute first part of
the question.
Why is this not registering withme?
So like if you're in aheterosexual relationship and
(14:11):
for you, you're a partner at athis next level best friend that
was a another woman.
Is she hot?
I don't think it matters.
It does matter.
No, I don't think it does.
Is she hot though?
Please, I've seen people cheatwith some ugly people.
Ugly people need love too and itdoes happen because they develop
emotional intimacy and thatchanges things.
(14:31):
I mean, you've met people thatmaybe you didn't find all that
attractive.
Yeah I've dated them.
And then when you, and then whenyou talk to them, you're like,
oh, you're kind of attractive'cause I like your personality.
I think you're thoughtful orwhatever.
What do you feel about it?
Do you think so?
No.
You're like, I already saidthat.
I mean, I think that's prettyclear, right?
Yeah, because you're offendedthat I'm even considering.
Yeah.
I'm offended by everythingyou're saying to me.
(14:52):
I think again, yes, there'slevels to friendships.
So I think as long as you are,you stay in that shallow level
of friendship.
So it has to be baby pool.
Kitty pool shallow only.
That's why I said I think youhave to have very strict
boundaries as a person becausehere's the thing, like you said,
sexual attraction, emotionalattraction, attraction happens.
(15:16):
We are all aware that sometimesit doesn't fit the guidelines or
the box or on paper or whatever.
And so just having a mutualsense of respect for your
partner, you should establishboundaries for yourself that you
do not cross, so you never haveto cross your partner.
If you're my partner, don'tcross me.
But you get what I'm sayingthough.
(15:36):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's like you wanna make surethat you have those boundaries
intact so that way you don'tcause trouble.
Some people get really excitedabout causing trouble in their
relationships.
Like they enjoy that shit andit's so like to me, sorry, like
that's boring, you're boring.
We're gonna take an emotionalmental health break now so that
Mitch can get it together.
Okay.
We're back together now.
(15:57):
Or how people use that, which wewere talking about people we
know.
In this, this exact scenariowhere the girlfriend, commented
about somebody else showinginterest in her to her partner
to upset the partner.
Like, there's a certain kind ofattention you're trying to get.
Out of something like that whenyou're trying to egg on drama.
(16:20):
We have to be conscientious ofthe fact that some people have
narratives in their head foryou.
Or they'll even do that, like infriendships where it's like, oh
yeah, my friend, you know, theybrought me flowers on my
birthday.
And you didn't.
Right?
That's why I said like for me, Ihave found solace in having, you
know, male friends sometimes'cause there's not that
(16:42):
comparison game that I havefound often in my female
friendships.
Not for all of them some of youguys are great, but yeah.
Do you think the dynamics shiftin different types of
relationships?
Oh yeah.
Polyamory, non-traditionalpartnerships, they're more open.
Yeah.
To this dynamic.
Yes.
I've seen many and I've knownmany people, that their partners
(17:03):
are with the same gender, thegender that they're attracted
to.
For instance, Ted is dating Nickand Nick's best friend is Mike,
but Mike is a straight man.
But what if Mike is a queer guy?
I've seen that too.
Yeah.
I feel like in heterosexualrelationships, there's a lot of
hiding and conformity.
(17:24):
And so because of that, I mean,it plays out in so many
different ways, right?
That we conform to thestereotypical gender roles that
are assigned, right?
And so I think that that is whypeople who are in heterosexual
relationships have a differentrelationship with the concept of
(17:44):
sharing the intimacy of yourpartner with other people.
Because that's really what itis, right?
But knowing that you're, orbelieving or having that trust
that your partner's telling youthe truth.
And is consistent and is inve asinvested as you.
I don't think there's a lot ofresearch around like polyamorous
relationships, but.
I know that that has grownsignificantly with younger
(18:07):
generations.
Yeah.
And I would be really curious toknow how often there are
conflicts because of emotionalintimacy.
Maybe not the physical intimacy'cause I can see from my
perspective that like these typeof open relationships are open
to physical intimacy with otherpeople.
But is it, is the same true forthe emotional intimacy for other
(18:31):
people?
Yeah.
And I'd also counter that yourdynamic with your partner is
different because you guys areboth very invested in each
other.
You're saying people are notinvested in each other.
Yes.
And there's a lot ofrelationships like that.
It's just a business agreementor it's a, it's very
(18:54):
intentionally superficial orwhatever it might be.
And it's not so much thatthey're invested in one another
or one person's more invested inthe other.
You know what I'm saying?
That I've seen so many differentdynamics at this point in my
life.
That I'm like, maybe that's whyyou guys feel so strongly about
that'cause it is a common value.
(19:14):
But most importantly, you guysare so invested in being good
partners to one another.
And that's not always the case.
No.
But I think we, we've, we know alot of people who are invested
in each other and genuinely havegood intentions for their
relationships.
I think for us it is ourpersonal values, but it's also
tied to our cultural values andit's also tied to our
(19:37):
generational values.
And we have an understandingthat it's the way we both want
to show up in the relationshipfor each other.
Like in the same way that Iwould be like, oh hell no.
He would also be that way too.
And you have to communicate whatthe boundaries are, and I think
that's important.
(19:58):
You have to, you have tocommunicate in your
relationships and you have to beable to communicate to your
partner and them to you.
What feels comfortable anduncomfortable for them.
And you have to be willing toadjust and like compromise in
that, right?
Like not change 100%, but likeif someone is concerned like,
Hey, your friendship with thisperson is just.
(20:20):
A little too over the top.
They don't need to come to myparents' anniversary dinner with
us.
Or they don't need to be in theroom when you're giving birth to
our child.
Like we need to have someboundaries here then.
Yeah, those conversations needto be had.
Because I think in anyrelationship with any
relationship topic, the peopleinvolved in the relationship
have to be 100% on board and inagreement.
(20:43):
With what the boundaries andlimitations are within that
relationship.
And if you are not, the secondone person is no longer in
agreement and let, and let mesay that can change, right?
Especially with long lastingrelationships.
Those relationships evolve anddevelop, and that can change.
So that means that theexpectations can also change.
(21:04):
That's why you have to haveconstant communication.
Yeah, I agree.
So what would you say are someof the green flags in a platonic
friendship?
Inclusivity, making sure thatyou include your partner with
your best friend once in awhile.
Doesn't have to be all the time,and making sure that they feel
(21:26):
like they're welcome and thatthey, their presence is enjoyed.
Cause I feel like if you havelike that weird kind of dynamic
with a platonic friend and, itfeels like, invite only kind of
vibe.
That could be really rough.
People who talk about having awork wife or work husband, and I
think most often than notthey'll describe that as like a
(21:47):
platonic friendship, and some ofthem will even be like, oh yeah,
this is like my BFF We've justspent so much time together at
work and we're just still closenow.
Is that acceptable?
No.
I agree.
Next question.
Listen, never acceptable.
I don't like the whole likework, wife, work, husband,
(22:08):
because I think you're labelingit as a different kind of
relationship.
And that to me feelsdisrespectful to the other
people's partners.
And I don't know if that's justmy generational take, but.
If I found out my partner wascalling somebody, his work wife,
you better believe some shit'sabout to blow up.
(22:30):
I'm not a fan of that.
I had, I had a bad experiencewith that, so no, I'm not a fan
of that.
Yeah.
I had one partner that didn'ttell me anything about any work
wife and then he got a birthdaycard from his work and the girl
signed it, love work husband.
And I was like, who the fuck isshe?
I think it's relative to timingtoo, because like yeah, you do
(22:53):
spend a lot of time at work andyou do create bonds with people
sometimes, but that oneparticularly, she had started
like three months prior.
I was like, that's a big redflag.
That's a huge red flag for me.
I would say more often than not,I do know people who have
claimed a work wife or workhusband, and I believe that it
was a very platonic situation.
(23:14):
But that's not the majority.
The majority has been that atsome point it has come out that
there was some sort of affairthat has happened.
Or like feelings.
Either before or after thepartner, the long-term partner,
came into the picture.
Mm-hmm.
And I swear to God, I've calledit every single time.
I'm like, Nope.
100% cheater.
(23:35):
And people are like, oh my gosh,you're just so old school.
You're just too traditional.
Like you don't understand.
It's totally platonic.
I kid you not every single oneof those that I can think of
right now came back and waslike, you'll never guess.
Like, of course I can guess.
'cause I guessed it then.
Yeah.
I've had one friendship thatcame out of a work environment.
And he liked me and I had aboyfriend during that time and
(23:57):
then I broke up with theboyfriend and then he was like,
I like you.
But I should have known, becausewhen we were at work one time,
he took his shirt off.
And he walked out from the back.
With no shirt on and he was inincredible shape and I was like,
what the, and I had to like runto my office to get away from
him.
Oh no.
Oh no.
He was right.
(24:18):
My ex-boyfriend was Right,right.
Had to run away from him.
And then he was like, the factthat you had to run'cause I told
him.
Yeah.
I thought that was part of likebeing in a relationship is that
you have to be very like,transparent and tell your
partners everything.
And maybe it still is, but yeah,he did not like that story.
(24:39):
He got very upset.
Okay.
What about exes who didn't workout but then became quote
unquote best friends?
No.
I have an ex story time whostill follows me on Instagram, I
do not follow him and there's nohard feelings.
Our lives have gone verydifferent directions, but the
(25:00):
way we met was that he told histhen girlfriend that I was his
best friend.
I had never met him before andthen months later we got
together.
We had a bad ending, but then weended up becoming like kind of
friends'cause we run in the samesocial groups and then he wanted
to be friends after that and hewould tell his then partners
(25:24):
that I was his best friend.
And then I had to put theboundary.
Super shady.
That is shady behavior.
And that is more often the casethan not.
Yeah.
So I I, unless your ex turnedout to be gay.
Then you can be best friendswith them.
There's some caveats.
Yeah, there's a barrier.
(25:44):
I think then I think the ex thenbecomes a no go for BFF status
if you get into a long-termcommitted relationship with
somebody else.
I also don't like the fact thatlike they've seen them naked.
Yeah.
That's weird.
You can't be friends withsomebody that you've seen naked.
(26:06):
I think you can.
No.
Oh no a hot millennial take.
If you've seen me naked, it's ano go but if you wanna go to
secret Starbucks with your,opposite gender, BF that's cool.
Go ahead.
You do your thing.
But if you've seen her naked, wehave a problem.
I feel like that is a boundary.
(26:27):
Let's talk about, differentscenarios.
Okay.
Would you be cool with, and thenwe're gonna fill in the blank.
Okay.
Okay.
Would you be cool with yourpartner going on a weekend trip
with their opposite sex bestfriend?
Just the two of'em?
I don't know that I would feelcomfortable with that unless it
was like a destination wedding.
They were gonna like a weddingof a friend or something like
that.
But then why aren't you going tothat wedding?
(26:49):
Maybe I didn't want to.
All right, fair enough.
If that's the case, then Iwouldn't really care.
Like if it's a college thing andthey're all going together.
It's going, they're going to twoof them, but they're meeting
other people.
Sure but that would still feelkind of weird.
Yeah, that would be really awkotaco and it's a hard pass for
me.
Don't even bring it up'causeit's just not gonna, it's not
(27:10):
gonna go up.
I think that's where the weird,the gray flags, blurred gray
flags.
Yeah.
Okay.
Your partner calls their BFF.
The only person who really getsme, I move out the next day.
You like motherfucker, what havewe been doing this entire time?
Am I a lamp?
Like, who are, who are you?
Who are you?
(27:30):
Unless you all of a sudden areChris Hemsworth.
I do have one story where, likean exter to me, and I said, just
because we're you, your partneris supposed to be your best
friend.
And he's like, you're not mybest friend and I looked at him
and I was like, excuse me.
And he was like, yeah, I don'tthink that, I don't think your
partner's supposed to be yourbest friend.
People have a variety ofresponses to that take.
(27:53):
I'm torn because yes, you shouldhave such a closeness and an
intimacy with your partner And Ido think there is, for some
people, a place for you to havea best friend relationship
outside of that relationshipthat you have with your partner.
Sometimes they're one and thesame.
Yeah.
Not all the time.
(28:14):
Okay, to be fair, I'm also thekind of person that calls five
people my best friend.
But also if that's the kind ofrelationship you want for
yourself, then that's reallyimportant to know like my
partner is my best friend.
I literally tell that maneverything and he tells me
everything like we talk tearoyalty.
Like, you guys are so close thatI know that if I tell you
(28:35):
something, he probably knows it.
It depends on what it is butthat's why because listen, your
girl still a vault.
Okay.
You're hanging out with yourpartner and they're bestie and
they are laughing about aninside joke that you are not a
part of.
And they don't explain it toyou?
No.
Okay.
This is just rude.
It's exclusionary, right?
(28:55):
They're like leaving you out.
That's not a green flag.
Remember green flags areinclusive.
It's like that show, what is it?
How I met your mother when oneTed and Robin have like yes.
Inside jokes and they laugh.
It's so disrespectful.
Also, we saw how that.
How that played out.
And they were exes that becamereally those friends, quote
unquote best friends.
Which was all bullshit.
(29:15):
Your partner has late nightFaceTimes with the BFF while you
are in bed together?
No.
Are you unbothered or is this anabsolute.
Late night so this is multiple,yeah.
FaceTimes.
Okay.
It's situational to me.
I'm unbothered.
If they live far and once in awhile they have a FaceTime, if
they're FaceTiming every weekand it's like a ritual and it's
(29:38):
in bed and I'm sitting, I wouldbe like, I'm really glad that
you feel like you need to talkto them near me.
But this feels weird.
I would probably bring it up andsay like that feels strange.
Because there's no, they're notbeing secretive.
Right?
Yeah.
So they're being really open.
So that's nice.
But the other part is like, doyou have to tell them goodnight
every Friday or what's going on?
(30:00):
Yeah, I would not be okay withit.
Your partner says, I love you atthe end of every convo with
their BFF, it's like, okay, loveyou, bye.
Is that platonic affection or isit crossing the line?
I don't mind that.
In fact, I think they should sayit to their same gendered
friends as well.
If you have friendships with agender that you are attracted to
(30:22):
and you're telling them, I loveyou, you better be saying it to
the other ones that you're notattracted to.
To, yeah.
If that's your like dynamic,then I don't care.
Yeah.
I mean, I tell my friends,actual friends that sometimes.
Like, I love you honey, or youknow, I really appreciate you.
You're amazing.
I don't know, just likeaffirmations of care.
Yeah.
Sometimes I just say, love you.
One time I went to a friend'sbirthday party and I had a
(30:45):
really good conversation withone of his friends.
And she was a female.
I'm not attracted to her orwhatever but I was like, I had
such a fun time that at the endof the thing I went, okay, love
you.
And she stared at me like, noyou don't.
And I was like.
Oh, well that ruined everything.
She hasn't talked to me, butit's the dynamic I have with my
(31:05):
female friends.
Yeah.
Is that at the end of the nightswe go"Love you" and it's not
like I'm admitting my love toyou.
Like, I'm not in love with you.
Yeah.
It was the weirdest anyway, backto the.
Okay.
Their BFF has a key to yourapartment just in case.
No.
Nope.
Yeah, that's too much.
I think unless it's a dualfriendship.
(31:29):
Like you guys are both bestfriends with this person and
they're very involved in yourlife, then the, maybe that would
be different but if it's justlike a one-sided, like that's
just your partner's best friendand now they have a key to your
apartment.
That's too much.
My family would have a key to myapartment, but not my best
friend.
It depends because what if yourfamily doesn't live nearby and
your friend has to come plant itfor you?
(31:51):
Then I'll leave her a key in alockbox.
Okay.
Your partner confides in theirbest friend about your
relationship problems.
We kind of talked about this alittle bit, but healthy outlet
or betrayal.
This is where I feel like it'sthat gray area'cause emotional
oversharing is a real problemsometimes and it actually causes
(32:12):
distrust in relationships.
And it can cause your partnersto feel like you're actually
betraying their trust if you'rejust consistently emotionally
oversharing outside of therelationship.
Yeah but a lot of people go totheir friends for relationship
advice.
Yeah, and maybe you should thinkabout that as an adult.
Have they ever given you goodrelationship advice?
(32:35):
Who are you asking?
Right.
What is their relationship like?
Like are you going to McDonald'sand be like, can you teach me
how to make a full mignon?
Yeah.
No, they cannot.
Are you on a subway and hopingthat you're going to a Michelin
star restaurant?
I'm just kidding.
Maybe they do give you greatadvice or they're like, like a
door stopper and they're honestand they like, they're
comfortable with checking you.
(32:56):
And so you feel like you cancheck in with them about things,
that's fine but if you'reemotionally oversharing to the
point where you're constantly,bashing your partnership or
something.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, it's, it's sticky when itcomes to that'cause you're
right, some people don't likeairing their dirty laundry to
other people.
They like to keep it containedthey don't want people knowing
(33:16):
all their business.
And then some people are like,okay with it.
'cause they're also doing itwith their friends, so they'd
probably be like, yeah, sure,whatever.
Yeah, ask your friends foradvice.
It's not a big deal.
Like my thing is always this,here's my rule of thumb, if I
share something with my friendabout my relationship.
Not my sister because my sisterknows everything.
(33:36):
So she's looking at you anywhich way.
I'm judging you no matter whatbecause yes, she does know your
penis size.
I'm just kidding.
I'm joking.
I know way too much about somepeople out there in the world.
But if it's a best friend and I,my rule thumb is if I say
something about that, you to mybest friend and our relationship
isn't ending.
(33:57):
It's gotta be something that'sokay enough for them not to
judge you when you walk back inthe room.
That's my rule measure.
I don't want them to be makingharsh judgements on the partner
because they don't really knowthe full context.
So I'm always conscientious ofthat'cause I don't want them to.
My family, on the other hand,they, they know everything, so
(34:19):
gloves off.
Sorry.
Okay.
Your partner is postingthrowback pics of them and their
BFF hugging or cuddling.
No.
Sentimental.
Too bad you can't lightInstagram on fire.
Yeah, you just put the flameemoji.
But that means something else,huh?
Yeah, because fire means a goodthing.
(34:42):
That would be a great skit.
Make that happen.
LOL.
Yeah, that's crossing thosedisrespectful lines there.
That's a lot like why?
Okay.
What about if they're, okay, I'mgonna play devil's advocate.
They're posting throwback picsbecause it's their best friend's
like birthday or likeanniversary.
(35:02):
And they're like, look at allthese pictures of us friend's
throughout the years.
I think it would bother methough.
I wouldn't be in this scenario'cause I'm not cool with it.
I wouldn't care if it was likesomething like a once in a
lifetime day or once in a year,kind of day.
Once a year you can post apicture, you can post pictures
in reminse on your friendship.
I think that's fine.
(35:23):
If it was like just like aThursday in August and they were
like, you know, I just reallymissed them, but they also saw
them last week, I'd be like,what is this?
It could be a red flag.
Something is wrong.
Your partner is spending moreone-on-one time with their
platonic BFF than they are withyou.
Some weeks life happens.
Or is this a total imbalance?
(35:43):
I think it's an imbalance.
Like if you're getting thefriendship time and they're
getting the relationship time.
That's not okay.
I think time is your mostvaluable commodity.
So if you are oversharing itoutside of your relationship,
yeah.
It's definitely a problem.
And I would ask myself some deepquestions if I was the person
(36:06):
doing that.
Yeah.
You know, because sometimes wedon't realize that there are
relationships that we admirebecause they check those boxes
or they fill certain criteria.
But then there's the dynamics wehave with other people or
friendships that you're allowedto be a certain version of
yourself.
(36:26):
That maybe doesn't fit yourpersonal choice of a
relationship or a romanticrelationship.
And I think when you findyourself with those crossroads,
you have to face those thingshead on or you're gonna end up
in trouble.
Yeah.
Your partner is calling theirBFF their soulmate in a
(36:46):
non-romantic way.
You know my hot take?
That's a hot.
I hope your soulmate has roomfor you and your shit.
I think that's weird.
That would probably get me, asthe children say, crash out.
I'd probably crash out and not'cause I'm sleeping.
Well just'cause like, I feellike that's so disrespectful to
(37:08):
someone who you're trying tobuild a life with.
Yeah.
So if you're, like, if you're ina serious relationship and you
have established that you guysare trying to work towards
something together, and then yousay like, oh, but my best friend
is my soulmate, by the way.
My platonic best friend who'sthe same gender of the genders
that you're sexually attractedto is your soulmate, quote
(37:29):
unquote soulmate, then thatmeans I'm number two and I'm not
number two ever.
Yeah.
I think that's a relationshipthat maybe isn't gonna last.
'Cause I think that that, so,okay, so with that being said,
then those relationships can'texist.
That statement that I just made,Uhhuh just proved that those
relationships can't actuallyexist past a certain point.
(37:51):
So what do you think thetakeaway is?
Uh, that I've grown a lot fromthe beginning of this episode to
now.
I'm just kidding.
I think the takeaway is thatplatonic love is real but you
gotta be really intentionalabout it, just like you would
(38:13):
anything good in your life.
Yeah.
So if you're gonna have platonicfriendships, despite whether
they are from the gender thatyou're attracted to or not and
you also wanna cultivate a veryhealthy, mature, serious
relationship with somebodythat's romantic.
You always have to be mindful ofthe fact that things can impact
(38:36):
your partner in certain waysthat boundaries could
potentially be crossed, and thatyou wanna really.
Heavily rely on effectivecommunication and understanding
to try to build that level oftrust with your partner.
Yeah.
Your romantic relationshipsdon't need to take up every
moment of your time.
(38:56):
They definitely should beprioritized.
'cause any partner who'sinvested in that relationship
wants to be a priority.
Okay, so final thoughts.
Can you be in a relationship andhave a platonic bestie?
The answer is not one size fitsall.
It depends on trust, boundariesand communication, and whether
(39:17):
everyone involved.
Feels safe and respected.
Yeah.
And whether you're the friend,the partner, or just watching
this all play out from thesidelines, platonic love is real
powerful and sometimescomplicated, but it's also worth
protecting.
So whether your BFF is yourforever friend, your emotional
support human, or you'reunofficial therapist, just
(39:39):
remember it's okay to ask thehard questions, set boundaries,
and get clear on what feelsright for you and your partner.
And if your partner's BFF, isstarting to fill like a third
wheel in your relationship, itmight be time for an honest
check-in, not a blowout.
If you like this combo, don'tforget to subscribe.
(39:59):
Leave us a review and share theepisode with your bestie your
Boo, or that friend you're notsure how to label.
Thanks for hanging out with us.
Until next time, stay grounded,stay curious, and maybe go text
your platonic soulmate just tosay, hey, I see you.
Bye bye.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Bobby Bones Show
Listen to 'The Bobby Bones Show' by downloading the daily full replay.