Eddie Hearn Tells All On Haney vs. Garcia, Ryan's Positive Test, State of Boxing

Earlier in August, Andre Ward sat down with boxing promoter Eddie Hearn for an exclusive conversation. Hearn tells all about the Devin Haney vs. Ryan Garcia fight, including how the negotiations unfolded, the craziness of fight night, the upset in the ring, and finding out about Ryan Garcia's positive PED test. Plus, he shares his thoughts on the state of boxing, his relationship with other promoters, and his upbringing. Also, he explains his back and forth with Terence Crawford on his fight night with Madrimov, why he gets into exchanges like that, and the importance of building boxing stars.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:11):
We're back with another episode of All the Smoke Fight
got a little different guests today, the chairman of Matchroom
Sports promoter Eddie Hearn.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
How you doing, brother, did good money.

Speaker 3 (00:22):
It's been a long time.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Yeah, it's been a long time.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
I don't look any different.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Hey, I take it. We got some history, man, We
go back, and you know, we've had our share of
banter throughout the years, but it's just all been out
of a competitive spirit.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
And I believe in mutual respect.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
So I saw you in Terrence have a little back
and forth the week of the fight. First of all,
why do you do that with the fighters?

Speaker 3 (00:43):
Because it's my job to create narrative, noise, conversation. Right
when you got two guys like cruel for the matrim move,
no one's really gonna say anything, right. I would never
go up to a fighter and say, right, you know,
at least head to head you need to And actually,
you know, like I've been in the game a long time,
it actually still fascinates me that that actually happens, where

(01:06):
fighters will agree to like have a little bit of
an argie bargin, you know, like you're the kind of
guy I know, you know, And I was involved with
you really just for the Super six Paul Smith fight,
and you weren't that guy like a naw's Terrence, right.
And you know if I went up to Terrence, could
you just like because I said to him even before
that that head to ahead, I said, hey, we're going

(01:27):
to get some stuff going today. Were told yeah, yeah,
but not like I know Terrance, you know, and He's like, nah, listen,
I like these guys blah bla blah. I'm like, okay,
And you know, people, we live in a world today
where being a great fighter is fine, but unfortunately people
want drama, people want conversation people, and I have to
if I have to be the fall guy to give
him that, you know. And I also had a little

(01:49):
bit with Jared Anderson as well, like oh really yeah,
because I'm giving my opinion of that fire. And he
come up to me and he said, oh, I saw
what you said, you know. I said, yeah, I said,
it's a fifty fifty fires. I think you might get beat.
What what what? I said? Yeah, Like, you know, let's
talk about it, Let's get the cameras in. You know,
next thing that's going by. It's all about driving interest

(02:09):
in show. That's my job. I never want a DISRESPECTI fighter,
and I'll never you know, if you look at the
fighters that even the ones that I don't represent, Terrence,
hopefully one day Shakur I champion those guys, like I tell,
I tell everyone they were brilliant. They are brilliant, and
I don't even have any skin in the game with them.
But for me, I've got You've got to create conversation.

(02:31):
Sometimes it can make me a bit annoying and sometimes
like just a little but yeah, yeah, it wasn't really
your cup of tea, you know, but I just took
it on your face. It showed yeah, true, yeah, true,
Yeah that's got That was plainful.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
But how much of it do you believe? Like, do
you really believe the stuff you say? Any of these
famous how much of it? How much of it is
the promoter thing?

Speaker 3 (02:52):
It depends, I mean, it depends how I'm feeling at
the time. It depends on the narrative, what we need
to do. Like with the Terrance stuff, I'm just trying
to bring his personality out in what I said to
you earlier. I think Terrence is really funny, but I
love the way he lives his life. I love the
way he brings his kids. You know, if you watch
these kids with a wrestling and stuff like that, he's
just a winner. And I feel that, you know, you

(03:16):
you've got guys who are really, really, really good and
they're not really hell bent on becoming a star. I
put you in that category. I put Terrance in that category,
maybe Shakur where they feel like they don't really want
to terranceing bothered about going to premieres and you know,
like being on the front cover of magazines and stuff

(03:37):
like that. But unfortunately in the business, we have to
try and make sure he has that kind of value commercially.
So it's getting a narrative and the moment's right to
just showcase his personality a little bit. You made a
great point earlier when we're over there about like media opportunities.
A lot of them are wasted time. But now wasn't
a case when you were fighting. But now you can

(03:58):
control your own narrative fruit content. Absolutely, not not by acting,
but just letting people see you.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
But there's a flip side to it, right, because I've
seen so many young fighters they say they want to
be a star, and then they crash and burn because
their focus is there. They're coming out of character. They're
trying to be the next Floyd. You know how many
fighters have tried to be the next Floyd Mayweather and
crashed and burned? You how many fighters tried to be

(04:26):
the next a Lad and crashed and burned.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
I think that.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
The star thing is overstated. Some people are not in
the game to be what you guys promoters boxing people
would consider a star. They're just there to beat the stars,
and they've made a massive income, They're at peace, they're
okay with who they are when they leave the sport,
and they got a reputation that they feel comfortable when
they go drop their kids off at school. So I
think it's I think sometimes promoters have a one track mind,

(04:53):
like we got to do this to make you this.
It's not in the cards for some people, just based
on what they stand for, how they move. But they've
made a massive amount of money and who's just say
that that's that that amount of money is not enough.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
But for us, the business's numbers and the business is interest.
So we have to do a job for our broadcaster.
We are Our job is determined by the numbers that
are generated, whether it's at the gate, whether it's you know,
on the platform, and generally you do that by creating
a profile and a brand. I completely agree with you.
I mean, I think the extension of this, you know,

(05:25):
I want to be a star and social media is
actually an extension of social life today and the social
media world, which is quite cringe at times. You know,
I know you're the kind of guy who will look
at a lot of these young fighters, some of which
don't even have the ability to be a champion. But
you know, you can now become a star without actually

(05:45):
having the ability. You can become a star because you've
got a big following.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
What's perception.

Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yeah, if my following is big enough and my people
feel like I'm in the conversation or they feel like
I'm the best or the gold or whatever whatever you
want to that's enough for me. It's not about being
It's about as long as the perception says that I am.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
I'm sufficient with that.

Speaker 1 (06:06):
Obviously, many many years ago, it was about proven it like, oh,
Eddie's you're the other top guy. Well, I'm gonna show
you I prove. It's not about proving anymore. It's about perception, perception.
Trump's reality in this day and name. But listen, list
off from the beginning. You know, I met your father,
Barry Hearn at the Hall of Fame, and you know,

(06:27):
obviously he has a rich history just in business in general.
Talk to me a little bit about about young Eddie
Hearn growing up.

Speaker 3 (06:33):
Well, Young Eddie harm was born into a family, obviously,
with my mom and my dad Barry. They were from
a very very humble background. Parents were my dad's dad
drove a bus around London and they lived in a small,
very small house, council house, which is kind of provided

(06:55):
by the government. And he was a working class guard.
I actually worked very hard at school, became a chartered accountant.
So he's a financial genius and that's something that he
lives and dies by within the business. And kind of
as I was born, he started making money. He got
into sport, snooker first of all, and then eventually boxing,

(07:18):
and as I came into the world, he started making
a lot of money. So I grew up pretty well,
but with a real working class mentality. Like he was
very strict on me and strict on me through sports
more than anything. So he used sport and a competition
within sport to educate me so all I did as
a kid was play sport. All I did as a

(07:38):
kid would compete against him, and we were brutal against
each other in every sport, you know. And although we
had money, he would always educate me that you get
given nothing, you know, and you have to work like
a dog basically, and that's probably given me my work
ethic today. But when he started promoting boxing, I was
eight years old and from that day, that night, I

(08:02):
went to Alder shows from eight years old, you know,
watching greats like Nazima Ahmed who we promoted, Lennox, Lewis,
Chris hu Bank, Nigel Ben, Frank Bruno. I mean, he
promoted everybody of the great British fighters. And I spent
a lot of my early years in those changing rooms
carrying belts out and I was the annoying kid, but
I was like I was Barry Herne's son. No one

(08:22):
really knew my name. I was just Barry's son, you know,
which I was fine with because my dad was my hero.
But like deep inside the competitive instinct I guess during
those years was how to actually make something of myself
like I wanted to. If I had a choice, I
would like to be in an athlete cricket, so whatever.
But I wasn't good enough. So over the years fourteen

(08:44):
fifteen sixteen, probably when I look back, probably wasn't not
the nicest kid. I always had a good heart. I
was very flash you know. You imagine I'm flying around
the world. You know, I'm in Vegas for Naz against Barrera.
You know what I mean. I mean the change. Probably
he wouldn't let me be a sport bro. But I
lived a life where you know, and now with my kids,

(09:05):
you know, similar to you having kids as well, it's
very difficult when you do have money and you do
want to spoil your kids, to maintain that working class mentality.
That's where he did such a good job because I
work harder than ever anybody in my industry, right, like
to I fall asleep, right, And that's and he should

(09:26):
be proud of that because I think doing that coming
from a wealthy background is particularly hard.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
You know.

Speaker 3 (09:31):
So growing up in boxing, I never I never once
said I want to be like I want to be
like my dad. I want to be a promoter. You know,
I just thought I'm going to go out, I'm going
to work in the money markets. I'm going to. You
know a lot of my friends went down that route
stock market. I'm going to make money. I love money,
I loved selling, I loved hustling. We would always, you know,
he would always put his coins in a jar and

(09:53):
I would count them all and stack them all up,
and he would make me clean his shoes for a
pound of pair. And like, I was built up around money,
sport and competition. But also looking back now, the education
that I had through boxing was an education that sets
me up perfectly for all of this stuff. So, you know,
being in the changing rooms when the guys are getting

(10:14):
their hands wrapped, its, sitting in the gyms, watching sparring
at ten eleven, you know, watching fighters go on their
road runs, watching them make weight. All of this kind
of stuff was an education for me, you know, in
my early teens really, and it was only really when
I got to kind of thirty years old that I
fell into boxing. I was already working in sport. I
was representing athletes on the PGA tour, you know, through

(10:37):
another company that I was working with, and eventually I
found my way back to boxing.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
But as a love girl for the sport, and you
became a promoter, you've been a promoter how many.

Speaker 3 (10:46):
Years now, about fifteen years.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
What is the hardest thing about being a promoter?

Speaker 3 (10:53):
Probably I would say the conversation that the hardest thing
is there's no barriers to entry in boxing. Right, So
for all the education that I had, and for all
that I know about the sport, I could be sitting
down negotiating a deal with someone that knows nothing about
the sport and nothing about the business. And we try

(11:16):
to run a great business so that we can honor
our contracts, we can pay people on time, you know,
we can be true to our word. But in boxing,
everybody feels they have a value. But the value is
actually black and white. But the problem with boxing, and
it's not even a problem it's good for the fighters,
is that every now and again, something bigger comes along.

(11:36):
Someone's got an investment fund, you know, Saudi Arabia coming
to boxing, you know, and your conversations where that guy
said he wants ten million for a fire and you're going,
you're looking at the numbers, going it's four. They go, okay,
don't worry about it. And then someone comes along and
gives them ten. Do you know what I mean? And
so you've got to be consistent in the business. You've
got to be consistent on the numbers. You've got to

(11:57):
always pay the fighter as much money as you can.
But that the hardest thing and the most frustrating thing
is the conversations. I think trust as well. You know,
I live for the relationships with the fighters where you
can share a journey together, like for me, whether it's aj,
whether it's those guys, and you know, the fighter that's
with you no matter what they say to you. You know,
a good example with someone like Tony Belly, right, you

(12:19):
know Tony from Creed. He never even really wanted to
see a contract. He'd just say to me, trust you whatever,
you know. But we were at a stage you know,
he come through. He didn't come through like the Olympics,
you know, as he came through uneducated about the business
and actually was treated badly within the business. But we
formed a relationship where there was so much trust. Obviously

(12:41):
he wanted to know the money that was getting. But
it's hard to explain when someone says to me, I
trust you, just please do the best job for me
and I'll do what you say. That kind of trust
and feeling, you never let someone down in that respect.
Do you know what I mean? I would never like that.
That's the ultimate honor for me for a fighter to say,
you're my guy, I know you've got my back, you know.

(13:04):
And I know people operating different ways, people like to
have a closer relationship with their own business. In boxing.
You're looking at that game what but for me and
Aj is not like that. But at the same time,
he puts his trust in me to navigate his career.
And that's an unbelievable honor for someone of that size,
you know. And you've got guys, you know, we're talking
about Jay and Joe like that. To have that relationship

(13:26):
with people, especially when you leave sport, it's really nice.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
I think that's rare for us here in the States
and especially in the box and space. Why do you
think promoters generally speaking have an unsavory reputation as guys
you have to watch and shake your hand, you have
to check your back because.

Speaker 3 (13:46):
A lot of them untrustworthy. But the key component is
a lot of them run poor businesses and a lot
I don't think they understand the accounts. They don't understand
the the show. I think they the game is generated
and works around ego I know promoters now that will
pay a fighter a number so that you don't get

(14:08):
and worry about it later, worry about the maths later,
worry about the accounts later, worry about the P and
L later. So what happens is next thing you do
a show, the pay per view numbers, don't hear the gate,
don't sell. You've lost five million on a show. Every
fighter is going, I need my money on the Monday.
Let's you hear it all the time? How many fighters
are waiting on money? Six months, eight months, nine months year.

(14:30):
I will pay you a little bit, I'll pay you
huh's And that's the norm Edie. I mean, of course, listen,
you will never find a fighter that I've ever represented
that hasn't said he's paid me on time, because we
do the business right. The numbers are right. And I
don't want to sit down with you when a fighter
is asking for that ten million and I'm going, but
you know you're educated enough. You're always educated enough to

(14:53):
have that kind of conversation, Trey. Let me show you
the numbers for this show. Right. Here's the gate, here's
the pay per view revenue, here's the sponsor, here's the
license in here's a closed circuit TV. These are the
costs of running the show. This is what's in the show.
And when I have a bigger relationship with a fighter,
if it's aj, if it's Canelo, you let them own

(15:14):
the show, own the revenue of the show. It's the
greatest model that you can have with a fighter because
they see everything, do you know what I mean? There's
no arguments because sometimes you do a fight with someone
and you know they're on a person. They look around
in the stadium and it's like someone saying to him, oh,
Eddie Hearn's made twenty millions a night. Au He's like no,
but they will believe it. So for me, I love

(15:35):
that model where we can work as a partner and
say no, we take a commission to work for you,
and you own the revenue of the show. You approve
the costs, you approve the budget, you approve the undercard,
and you eat what you kill in the respective pay
per view. You know, one of the problems now with
pay per view is sometimes it doesn't work. You know,
you got Tank against Ryan Garcia does a million, and

(15:58):
then you got Tank again. Ryan might do a third
of that, but the promoter of the show told him, Oh,
it will do a million, and then the reporting comes
in and both fighters go, what mm hmm, I'm ten
million down on what you know. But that's that's called
the value if you but your value. The pay per
view numbers are very transparent in terms of your commercial value. Now,

(16:19):
it can be promoted well, but generally some guys sell
pay per view, some guys don't.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
If any home could promote any fighter in history, WoT
to be.

Speaker 3 (16:31):
I mean, he probably didn't even need a promoter, but
you'd have to say Ali, right because he's like, you know,
he had it all. We talk about superstar status and
then we talk about ability. There's the two combined. My
favorite fighter of all time Sugary Lembs, you know and
grown up. I love that era and I feel that
there's always a conversation of greatness really comes over time,

(16:52):
and it's actually comes when you've retired. So like Leonard Hagler,
Herns Durant like that that era. Who are those guys now?
And do we have those guys now that will be
remembered in the same breath as those fires? I actually
think Terrence is one of them, you know what I mean?
But boxing is very different. Now it's behind a paywall.
You know, back then when those guys were fighting, it was,

(17:13):
you know, a mass product doing millions in three TV audience.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
A lot of the time, amongst all the promoters companies
that are out there, how do you rate yourself? How
does Eddie Hearn rate himself as a promoter?

Speaker 3 (17:25):
I mean, you know, you know I'm not low on ego,
but let's be honest as a promoter, right, forget the platform,
forget you know, as a promoter, as a voice, as
someone that delivers the show. And I'm talking about a
dying breed of people that go up on the dias
right and say, welcome, this is my show, and let

(17:49):
me tell you why you should come. They don't do
it anymore. You know, if you look at PBC, they
don't have a front man. Bob's ninety three, right, Oscars
Oscar so like who A lot of the time, I do.
I do think I'm really good at that, but I
don't really have that much competition because now the promoters

(18:11):
want to get the network guy or the reporter up
there going oh hi to the fighters, like no, no,
you need I need you know, I need to create
that we had an incident yesterday with Jarrell Miller and
Jared Anderson right and after the press conference, Jared Anderson
weren't very happy. He's like, why why are they asking
me questions about Jarrell Miller? But it's like, mate, you understand,

(18:34):
you know how many people will watch that little clip
and that's what they want to see. They want to
see your personality. Don't take it personal. You know, we
got this is a show and you know, I think
we're really well placed in the US market that no
UK promoters come to America ever done a big TV
deal and been in the conversation as one of the
top promoters. I know. It's it's PBC, it's Top Rank,

(18:57):
it's Matter, it's like the Big Three if you like.
And there's others well, but Top Rank are a good company.
You know, they have a huge history in the sport.
You know, but Bobby's ninety three. I don't see the
bulldog spirit in that company to drive the business forward
over the next five or ten years. You know, you
got Todd. Todd's a good businessman, but he don't live

(19:18):
in brief boxing. Bob's does no, No, I know he doesn't,
but Bob does Bob's amazing in ninety three. I mean,
I wouldn't mind leaving the game at some point in
my while I've still got time to actually enjoying my life.
It's a passion for me. But you know, the businesses, right,
But Bob, you can't. You know, we did a fight

(19:40):
once in the UK and they did an evening with
me and Bob right, and they said, Eddie, what's your
proudest moment as a promoter? And I was like, you know,
I did AJ against Clichko Wembley ninety thousand, blah blah
blah blah blah. And then went, Bob, what about you?
And he went, well, it's between the Thriller in the
Manila and the Rumble in the Jungle. I was like,

(20:00):
I mean, that's so we don't always get on. But
I respect him. I respect the hustle, I respect the grind,
and I respect the passion and his achievements.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
But to that point, you know, I sat down with
Terrence Crawford and he and I had dialogue about do
the promoters really dislike each other? I know years ago
you all met in New York. I think you were
a part of that, and you guys signed your signatures
as a union.

Speaker 2 (20:26):
I don't think anything came with it.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
Terrence's take was, these guys really don't dislike each other.
That's a show. Is it really a show when you
guys go back and forth.

Speaker 3 (20:34):
I think they disliked me one hundred because.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
You're not from here, or just because of the type
of business.

Speaker 3 (20:40):
Yeah, I think the way I talk a lot, and
obviously I think anyone that comes into a new market
from another country steps on toes. You know. I don't
dislike any of them, you know, but I think that
what happens is Bob you know this, This happened with Shakur,
and this had with Terrence. Once Bob knows they're off,

(21:04):
they're dead to him. Do you know what I'm saying?
So when Shaku's got two fights left and he goes
when my top rank deals up, I'm not re signing.
I don't blame Bob by the way, like, what where's
your motivation to grow that fighter for the future? Terrence
the same Bob got it in his head because Bob
lost money on Terrence, right, So he'd do a pay
per view with Terrence lose money, and Bob would be like,

(21:26):
you know the famous line from Bob Remember where he
said about Terrence Crawford went, Why would I do a
Terrence Crawford fight when I could go and buy another
mansion in Beverly Hills for the fight? Do you know
what I mean?

Speaker 2 (21:34):
Let me ask you that.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
But but I understand the fighter sort of showing their hands.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
I'm not sure a fighter should do that.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
If you want to leave, that doesn't have to be
public information because you will see a promoter acting different. Yeah,
but somebody like Terrence Crawford, like, is that is that
a fair statement? When he hasn't got a real shot
at pay per view? We're talking about Victor Postal and yeah,
I mean that is that a real fair shot?

Speaker 3 (21:59):
When I feel like the way to see you don't
just become a pay per view stuff. You have to
be built from an early part of your career if
you want to do the big numbers. And I just
feel like Terrence Crawford wasn't built properly coming through. I
look at Terrence and I look at Shakozems and I'm
probably a little bit disjointed because I'm from the UK,

(22:19):
and if we had Terrence Crawford and we had Shaku,
these guys would be national heroes, right, they'd be like
super Still I know, but I also get the feeding
in that America. Like still America, you still love sport.
I know that boxing is not, you know, the biggest
sport in America, but these are quite Like how good
is Shaku? He's a three division world champion. He's twenty

(22:41):
seven years of age. Right, He's not even really come
out of first gear, has he? I mean? But really
he could walk out now down here in LA I
don't think how many people know he is. Even Terrence.
You know, these guys I feel like should be, but
you build them from the ground up. So what happened
with Terry was he was never really built or promoted correctly.

(23:02):
And then his purses because he was so good and
because he was winning everything, we're going up and up
and up. And then Bob looks at it and goes,
we need to put him on pay per view because
ESPN or wherever it is at the time, aren't paying
the rights fees to pay what this guy wants. So
we roll the dice on pay per view and it flops.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
Right when it's set up the flat when you're facing
the Jeff one.

Speaker 3 (23:25):
Yeah, but then I guess you're right in the respective.
When he fights ERL Spence, the numbers are much better,
of course, I mean, yeah, but when he fights Jeff Horn,
when he fights Posto, when he fights Amir Khan, when
he fights kel Brook, ever really going to not really?
But what happensre is the fighters purse has become so
expensive the only model that works is pay per view.

(23:46):
But you're rolling the dice because if he don't hit
the numbers, someone's got to make up the deficit on
the minimum and that will be Bob. Right, So when
Terrence does his deal to fight kel Brook or Amir Kahn,
he says, yeah, I want three minutellion four million minimum guarantee,
plus I want my upside on the pay per view
over one fifty. It ends up doing sixty thousand buyers

(24:07):
and the break even point is one twenty five for
top rank, and they're in for three million. And then
Bob looks here it and goes absolutely berserk and go
And from that day Bob goes, He's a waste of money.
Not do you know what this is frustrating? This kid's special.
We've got to find a way to get to one
twenty five. Bob's already made his mind up right, and

(24:28):
then the conversation then turns and goes, oh, I want
that next fight. I want four million, guarantee five million,
and Bob goes, I lost three million on that you And.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
Then is this is this is this is my point.

Speaker 1 (24:38):
And I told her I can get everything you're seen,
and you're right, but from the fighter standpoint, you don't
get what's fair.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
You get what you negotiate. Let me, let me, let
me elaborate.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
We're in an into a negotiation, fighter promoter, and these
minimums are being brought up right, and you know, as
a fighter, see to give the fight a little bit
more credit. If I know, historically I haven't been promoted
as a pay per view star, just been the bare minimum.
Just speaking generally, I'm gonna make sure my minimums are
strong because at the end of the day, that's what

(25:14):
I'm guaranteed. Now you crying about what you didn't make,
starting to do with me, it does in a sense
because it can hurt your right. But hear me, I'm saying,
this is the fighter's standpoint, you know, the promoter's standpoint,
the fighter saying it. If I know historically I haven't
gotten a push that I feel like I need. My
minimums have to be strong. Just because you try to

(25:36):
prop up a pay per view against a Jeff Horn,
a mere conor whoever the case may be.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
May CON's way past the front. It's not gonna sell.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
I know it, you know it. And then when the
pay per view doesn't do what you think it's gonna do,
or we know it's not gonna sell, but now I'm
on the hook for you losing money, and then that's
the narrative. That's what I think. That's the game that
promoters play.

Speaker 3 (25:57):
This is where you've done a great job, right because
you were in fights that I feel like you knew
you know, you did good numbers, but you knew probably
wouldn't deliver the numbers that would justify the purse that
you was asking for. And that's when you get that
between the promoters. Right. So you go, I'm the greatest

(26:19):
fight in the world, this is a big fight, this
is my this is my purse for this fight, right,
And the promoter goes, yeah, but which is not going
to hit those numbers? You go, I don't really care
to be honest with you, dang, Really, my problem this
is my number. Yeah, and that look at it. But
you were smart because you wouldn't roll the dice on

(26:39):
the pay per view only but without the guarantee. I'm
also I might in the right fight, the right.

Speaker 1 (26:48):
Fight, the right time, and if you what is your
rollout play? See, promoters don't give fighters a lot of credit,
and I think that would bridge the gap a little
bit in terms of communication. And maybe promoters don't want
to communicate better with fighter, maybe they just look at.

Speaker 3 (27:03):
Them like that they do. But a lot of the
time money is and you just got a lot of
the time the teams don't want you to have that
relationship with a fighter. My favorite kind of relationship is
to have those conversations with a fighter where you can
sit down and talk through the business. Some don't have
the ability to do it and some don't want to
do it. Yeah, But a lot of the time the
manager don't definitely don't want you in because they become

(27:26):
I feel like one of the biggest wastes of money
for a boxer. Sorry, because I've got some good friends
that are managers. Is a manager if as he no, No.
If you have the right promoter and the right lawyer, right.
But a lot of the time it's a good manager
is valuable. Manager is a waste of time and a

(27:46):
waste of money. If you have a good relationship with
a promoter and a solid lawyer to look at your
contracts right, because you know, I want to have that
relationship where I sit down and we can talk it out.
I like talking it out with fighters. Some of them
that you can't. You know, it's unfair for a lot
of fighters to be in that negotiation. Yeah, but sometimes
that they're the best relationships.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
You know.

Speaker 3 (28:08):
But you ran your business well and the the you know,
your reputation was always he wants he wants a lot
of money and he ain't. He ain't gonna fight unless
he gets it. So you've got people and that there's
pressure to make fights. You look at that cover let
fight that you had and the remake, there was pressure

(28:28):
to make those fights.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
You know, if you have a model on how you
want to promote, you're only willing to spend a certain
amount of money to promote.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
That's not always the fighter's fault.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
Now, if you have a dynamite plan laid out and
I just refuse, and I tell you I don't want
to do anything. I'll see you fight night, I'll see
the week of the fight. It's a different conversation. But
sometimes when the fighters negotiating, that's not the first contract
they've had with that promoter. They know the history. It's
a give and take. And I love you.

Speaker 3 (28:55):
You're always fighting, you know, battling outside of the ring
as well, especially not towards the end of your career.
But you fought for you know, you fought for freedom
really a lot of the time, you know.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
I mean, I know this was going in one day
and I had I have to look back and build
a justify the time away from my family, and I
don't want to.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
Have any regrets.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
Tell me about the game right now, the swatter boxing
and where it's at. And do you like the direction
and his team in You've had a partnership, He's made
a partnership with several promoters.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
How do you feel about what's going on?

Speaker 3 (29:30):
I think that it's an amazing time for fires, you know,
I mean you look at some of the persons that
the fighters receiving. I never look at fightings. There's a
lot of the older guys talked about him earlier, will
look at how much a fighter is on and go.
That's ridiculous. It should be. It's like, look, good luck
to him, fuck me, and there's a lot of fighters

(29:50):
at the moment that are getting paid well beyond the
commercial value. Good Luck to him doesn't mean we have
to do it. Or sometimes you might take we might
roll the dice, you know. But also you're saying, yeah,
I know, you know, I might not be in this
game forever. I've got to look out for myself. I've
got to look out for my own business.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
Now.

Speaker 3 (30:07):
Although you're taking physical risks and I'm not, we still
have to run a business. It's not just like yeah, yeah,
oh we lost three million on that one for we're
the idiots, do you know what I mean? So, but
Turkey and his influence in the sport that obviously, the
money that's being inputted through the ecosystem of boxing through
Saudi Arabia is amazing. And what it's actually doing is

(30:28):
it's making big fights. It's making boxing bigger, it's making
more people interested in boxing. It's making the broadcasters go, actually,
we're doing good numbers here, We've got a good schedule here.
It's making the viewership increase, it's making ticket sales increase
as well, and we've been doing you know that consistently
now for this year, our biggest gates you know, BAM

(30:51):
against Estrada in Phoenix, sub Real Matias in Puerto Rico,
Boots the other week in Philly fourteen thousand. Like some
people forget that when boxing becomes bigger, it actually benefits everybody.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
Devin Handy, Ryan, I see you. How did that fight
get made?

Speaker 2 (31:09):
And what was your involvement?

Speaker 3 (31:11):
So I did a one fight deal with Devin. I
mean I had Devin from the early stage of his career,
good kit, very loyal, got to a stage where he
won the world titled US. We were chasing Undisputed, chasing
the George Cambosas fight. Ludabella signed Cambosas, got some money,

(31:33):
wanted to freeze me out with Bob and basically I
couldn't make the fight for Undisputed, and the only way
Devin could do it was to sign a three fight
deal with Top Rank to do it. And it was
a horrible time because ninety pres ninety five percent fires
wouldn't have even phoned me. They would have just gone

(31:53):
sorry Eddie, bye, gentlemen. Because my contract was up with
him and he phoned me, he said, look, can you
make this fire? I want to? I want to. We
always said to each other we're going to do undisputed together.
That was like our little thing. And he's like, you know,
Bill was probably just saying sign it, you know, but
that's fine understanding. But Devin was really loyal to us

(32:14):
and good and in the end I said to him, mate,
you've got to do it. I can't. I can't deliver
you the fight, and you have to take this fight.
So he took his three fight deal. Finished. There came
back to us, did we just said we go fight
by fight Fort Regis in San Francisco, and then Oscar
offered him the fight to fight Ryan. You know, we

(32:36):
came in, we helped him with a part of the team.
You know, he looked after us as well, and yeah,
I think there were a lot of mistakes in that fight.
You know, we weren't across it like we would have
been if we were part of his team.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
Business. Yeah, I think so it seemed from the outside
looking in that the negotiations went pretty quick. Was it
a tough negotiation? I was no.

Speaker 3 (32:59):
I mean, both guys you talk about minimums, both guys
roll the dice on the numbers with no minimums, you know,
because they saw Garcia tank and saw the numbers and
presumed it would replicate a similar model in terms of
and I told him that, you know, I said, this
is what you'll make for the fight, and he said, no, no, no,

(33:22):
I'll make this. And actually what he made was exactly
what I said he would make. And you know, there
were mistakes in the fight. There were mistakes around the
way in There were mistakes, you know, I think around
the preparation. I mean, you know, I respect there and
I like the kid a lot, you know, but sometimes
I think you know this as well, like you can

(33:44):
lose your direction a little bit in terms of you think,
now you're that big that you know all the right
decisions to make. And you know, when I go and
sit in that changing room and I see thirty people
in there screaming and shouting, you know, and he's put
on his essential boots that he's had especially made for him,
and takes him twenty minutes to get him on, and

(34:04):
you've got four different trainers, and you know, I'm sort
of it's only after the fact. It's always after defeat
when you make the change isn't it. You know, it's
never when you're winning, you never looking got she's getting
a bit crazy in it. I'm not. I don't think
this is, you know, because you're winning.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
Like I said, that winning covers a multitude of scenes.

Speaker 1 (34:23):
Yeah, it's a lot of things that should be fixed,
but the winning just cover it up and you keep moving.

Speaker 3 (34:28):
But I think the hardest thing for Devin in that
fight was what Ryan must do.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
Let me go back to the way. Ryan came in
three pounds over.

Speaker 1 (34:38):
I heard he came in he was He showed the
week of the like fifteen pounds over. I don't know
if you guys heard that, but I know he had
some weight issues. And Ryan said that Floyd Mayweather told
him not to get that three pounds off.

Speaker 3 (34:51):
Do you believe that it's getting ready to ask you,
I mean you probably know Floyd Floyd. I don't. I
wouldn't have thought so. But at that point, for the
launch press conference, I met a Ryan Garcia that changed
so much from the Ryan Garcia that I knew. And

(35:11):
I don't know him that world, but I've met him
a few times. Very nice guy, you know, very you know, polite,
you know, great looking kid, like fresh face. And then
I saw this kid at the launch press conference. This
is like eight weeks before the fire, and I'm like,
what has happened to Ryan Garcia? That was eight weeks out?

(35:32):
It got so much worse, to the point where at
the at the press conference on the Thursday and Awayne,
I'm actually looking at him going like, one, I can't
believe he's even in this fight. Two, I can't believe
people are letting him fire. And three is this for
real or is it an act? Right? Because I think

(35:56):
and you know, I had an argument with Tank a
while back where I said, when he Ryan Garcia, I said,
Tank is not an overthinker, right, he's just a bad mother, Right.
You don't have to get in his head like come on,
come on, Gavonte, are you okay? Are you you know?
He switched on He's just a and like go you

(36:18):
know what you're doing. He didn't like that because he
thought I was being disrespectful, and I actually I probably
phrased it in a wrong kind of way, but what
I meant was it's an asset. Ryan is emotionally and
mentally not strong like Tank in battle. Right, So sometimes
you have to reassure them you have to make, you know,
all that kind of stuff. And Devin he's also he's

(36:40):
a young bright He's not He's not. I don't think
he has the same mentality as Givanta Davis and no,
and I think, I mean, I think he has a
lot more assets in his mentality than Javonte, but in
that one where you don't like he was looking at
Givanta Davis in the ring that night, sorry at Ryan
and I was in the ring with him, and I
was looking at Devin and I was saying to him, hey,

(37:02):
come on, look at the state of him, Like Ryan
weren't even in shape.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
Really, I was going, wait, what do you mean he was?

Speaker 3 (37:07):
He was just like, I don't know what this guy's
Ryan's in the ring. This is pre fa. This is
in the ring, pre fa.

Speaker 1 (37:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:13):
And Ryan's like this like before they're announcing him, like honestly,
you're looking at this kid game what what? And Devin's
like this right thinking I think he just did his
head in, you know what I mean. And I'm saying
to Devin, hey, let's switch on now, because I know

(37:34):
he's thinking, like, is this guy for real? Don't forget
through that whole build up. Everyone's telling Devin he ain't
gonna fight. I didn't think he'd made that. You imagine
training every day. I mean, Devin's a pro, good pro.
But still you've got like, is he even going to
show up this guy next thing? You're in the ring thinking,
you know, But I think Devin is the kind of
guy every fight is different. I think you you you're

(37:56):
a smart fighter. Ajs like that you need to be.
And I just feel like that through Devin the whole
the whole thing strategy from no because after thewards he
says it was but look at what's happened. Sen's imploded
even worse, there's nothing strategic about this. The guy's just
you know, he's out there.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
When did you know we got a problem.

Speaker 3 (38:17):
About thirty seconds into the fight when he ended his
first lift took did you see it? I mean, you
know like Ryan looked massive, massive, And that's when I
say the mistakes, you know, the mistake for me, when
you come in three and a half pound over, that's
when you have to protect your fighter, not financial, not
bothered about another four hundred five hundred thousand, eight hundred

(38:39):
thousand whatever. You know. I will never forget, never forget
because it was one of my best educations. When you
fought Paul Smith in Oakland, we had Paul Smith. Paul
Smith was kind of like at the back end of
his career, right, looking really it was a payday, right,
he just lost the Arfurt Abraham. Some people thought he
won the fire you wanted to do your home coming Oakland.

(39:01):
Paul's heart probably wasn't in it as much. He messed
up the weight. Right. They come into me an hour
before the weigh We've got a problem. What pul Smith's overweight? Right?
How much is he overweight? Four pounds? I'm like, four pounds.
We're in Oakland, right, I've got you, I've got Jay,

(39:24):
I've got Rock Nation new with it. I'm like, so
now will be I'm like, I said, how much can
you get off? They went, he's been working at it.
He's four pounds. I go, guys, you can't be four pounds.
So anyway we go in. We let Rock Nation know,
like I think they found out on the scout or whatever. Anyway,
I'm up there the next thing and I'm young at

(39:46):
the time. How many years ago was the pul Smith fight?
Twenty fifteen? Yeah, eight years, nine years ago. Next thing,
I'm sitting with Jay in a room, right and he's
telling me that this is all my idea, our tactic
to beat you. Right. I'm like, I said, Jay, I

(40:06):
don't mean to be rude. I said, my guy can't
win a round against Andre, even if he's ten pounds heavier. No,
I want this and I want that, and we want
money and we want weight. You've got to reway tomorrow.
You can't be more than this. And it was like
everything that he asked for. Yeah, but listen, that's cool.
He's got your back right now. He had to weigh

(40:29):
in the next morning, right at a specific weight. That's
the standard procedure when when they do a new deal,
which I wasn't involved with Golden Boy on the weight,
the first thing you do is you make Ryan Garcia
away and on Saturday morning, right, because if you give
him the ability to just rehydrate wherever he wants to
get to, you got to keep him on his toes.

(40:50):
That's your opportunity. Yeah, but he had a weight class,
had a pre contract. Now all of a sudden, you're
on your Friday. The guy has missed weight by three
and a half pound. The fight's off. Really, So these
are the exceptions. Number one, we want money. Number two,
you've got to reweigh tomorrow, so you don't rehydrate. You

(41:11):
make him sweat overnight, you make him panic overnight. Watch
what he's eating, Watch what he's rehydrating, you know, all
this kind of stuff. There's no rehydration clause at that
point when he comes in heavy. Is a schoolboy mistake?

Speaker 2 (41:25):
Did you tell them?

Speaker 1 (41:27):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (41:27):
Yes, and after the fact, but it was like they
want to do things on their own, you know, Okay,
no problem. Look like we weren't contractually involved in the
fight we had, you know.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
But do we have their ear?

Speaker 3 (41:36):
Yeah, And we told them, I said to the we
said to the lawyer and everybody, you must make him it. No,
I don't want to every happy blah blah say okay.
Now going back to UV Paul Smith, I remember the
next morning we had to weigh in and he was
trying to make weight on the morning of the fight. Now,
you were going to beat him if he was in

(41:56):
the shape of his life. But thetage that you had
in that respect, which you didn't need. But anyway, I'll
take it down. Yeah, of course, because it's his fault.
Of course, and it's Ryan Glarscia's fault, and you've got
to punish him for that, not just with a few
hundred thousand dollars, making sure that he doesn't have a
physical advantage. I would also like to say, and I say,

(42:17):
it's a lot to people about you. After that fire.
You came up to me in a ring and the
deal that I did with Jay was that he had
to pay you about one hundred and twenty five thousand
dollars extra for missing weight. And you came up to
me and you said, is he a good guy? And
I said, yeah, he's a great guy. He said does

(42:38):
he have a family? I said, yeah, you know they're
all here. He's telling him to keep the hundred and
twenty five thousand dollars. And I'll never forget that about you.
That's a very nice touch. And I didn't take any
commission off the hundred and twenty five hours, but you
know that's a classy move, do you know what I'm saying. Anyway,
going back to the other fire, you're now when those

(42:59):
go ey are in the ring, I'm looking over at
the size of Ryan Garcia. He looked like a middleweight, right,
I mean, he didn't. It didn't even look really in shape, right, I.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
Don't think he was in tip top shape.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
I think he was in decent shape. Yeah, yeah, and
you could tell because as the fight was going on,
he'd have a big round. He threw a lot of punch.
He needed a round or two to recovery. Yeah, tip
top shape. You get that back in sixty.

Speaker 3 (43:21):
So yeah, the ability to hurt Devin with every shot
that he landed. I mean, the left looks a powerful punch.
The first round was a major problem because you know,
and it took Devin a while to get over that.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
But as you're seeing this fight and fold, what are
you thinking.

Speaker 3 (43:35):
I mean, it's I'm thinking he'll gas, right, yeah, stay
in the fight, Stay in the fight. But then tactically
Devin was really poor. But his defense was leaky, his
feet weren't really weren't really there.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
You know.

Speaker 3 (43:48):
Then I started thinking about how well did you make
the way? Yeah, you know, you're going through this training camp,
as we said, we've probably doubts in your mind as
to whether this fight is even going to happen. You know,
he's always tied the way, I mean, how he made
what thirty five Devin for so long, you know, but
then he got hurt, knocked out, and he showed unbelievable heart,
And to be honest with you, I think the defeat,
particularly bearing in mind that Ryan was on pets in

(44:11):
the ring, right is I think he's psychologically and emotionally
quite damaging for Devin, and I think it will take
him a while to get over it. I don't think he'll, yeah,
because I don't think people have actually given him the
credit of what he went through that night. Like he
took a beating in that fight, right his face after

(44:34):
the fire. His draw was out here. He showed tremendous hot.

Speaker 1 (44:37):
He did it in that now one time he could
have easily taken and taken an easy route.

Speaker 2 (44:42):
He could have easily whispered.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
Towards legs were gone, he could have blinked a certain
way to the to the doctor. It's a million ways
to get out. He never took.

Speaker 3 (44:50):
So imagine going through that pain. One that the guy's
coming overweight and he's massive on the night and you
can feel it and you know him, and then finding
out that the guys popped, you know, for his pre
fight test, post fight test and everything.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
Let's get into that when did you guys find that
out the fight's over, did you go back to the
locker room?

Speaker 2 (45:11):
What's the mood?

Speaker 3 (45:12):
Like, what did you say the mood ship? You know,
you got obviously people clearing out the room.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
It's not it's not the same amount of people post
always are.

Speaker 3 (45:21):
Always, you know, we've got but there was a lot
of bad blood before. I'm arguing with Ryan Garcie, his dad.
He's having a gunment like it's you know, it's quite
and I'm always pretty honest, like, and Devin will just
sort of come over to me. I say, he just
boxed poor tonight, you know, like, and he did he
box really poor at night? I said, you know, listen,
it's it's done now. But you didn't you didn't box

(45:43):
well tonight. That's that's that's the fact he didn't.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
What did he say?

Speaker 3 (45:48):
He knew he didn't, he didn't box well, but he
was like I think you know about he was massive
in there, you know, because he was massive in there.
I mean, Devin rehydrates heavy. Brian was huge that night.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
But I think it was more tactical and I think
the way played a role. But for a great boxer,
somebody can be heavier than you, and that won't make
the difference. I can have enough skill and enough i
Q to offset that extra weight and put this boxing
on you and all the.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
Alcohol, all the bad all the all the bad habits.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
That's gonna come out of you, gonna, you're gonna, we're
gonna gonna see that on display.

Speaker 3 (46:30):
But that's what I said to him in the ring.
I said to him, looking, this is before the bell, looking,
you could have.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
Stated Haney's skillful enough. Where could have overcame that?

Speaker 3 (46:39):
In my opinion, Yeah, didn't, but I mean man handled
a little bit.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
Yeah, yeah, you.

Speaker 1 (46:43):
Know, yeah, when did you guys get word of the
positive test? And what was the reaction from the handy camp?

Speaker 3 (46:51):
So they were very suspicious all along, really yeah, just
because I think to be honest with your camps are
as well. We also like and will I just you
know when you sign up to VARDA. They were both
on VARDA, right, Like, if you fail a test when

(47:11):
you've signed up to VARDA, like you know you're going
to get tested. I know there's ways, there's always ways
to try and beat a system that's not the one
to try to be not really no, I mean you're
getting tested a couple of times a week, like you know,
you don't know when it's going to come blah blah blah.
So well, one of the problems with with VARDA testing,
and it's not anyone's fault, is that chain takes anywhere

(47:36):
between two and four weeks, you know, right, So you
take your test, it goes, they package it up, it
goes to Salt Lake City. It's got to get there.
It sits in a lab for four or five days.
Then it comes back. They've got all these different sports
from around the world. They test it. Three or four
days later, it comes back, they write up a repool
comes out, you know. So the answer to your question

(47:56):
is probably about three weeks after the fight they would
get the results from the VARDA test and then it
was just like, you know, and.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
Did you get it first?

Speaker 3 (48:07):
It comes to the group that are on VARDA. So
everybody so Golden Boy Hainy asked, and it's just like,
I mean, listen, I've I've had fifty positive drug tests
in my promotional career for different fighters. I know how
it goes down, but this one was just like you know,

(48:30):
and it was obviously then you do your research into
what it is you know the amounts. You know, there's
a lot of bullsh.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
Yeah, yeah, I believe that the second one get confirmed.

Speaker 3 (48:41):
I don't think it did.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
No.

Speaker 3 (48:43):
I think it was just ostering in terms of what
come back, so that it was. And one of the
horrible things is is it was on the night before
the fight, and it was on fight night, so you
know categorically that it was in his system during the fight,

(49:03):
not they cycled out twelve weeks ago, and you know
it was in him in the fight. If I'm honest,
knowing been through all these different fifty cases and like
stuff like that, it would lead me to believe that
it was in relation to the weight cup, right. I

(49:23):
think you know enough as well, Like I don't believe
if you're cheating, cheating on a cycle or whatever, I
don't know in camp, it's not gonna be the week
erd and you're not going to So you know, he
says he never it was contamination. But if it wasn't contamination,
I believe he's probably taken that to try and help
him make weight for the fight.

Speaker 1 (49:43):
That's what I believe, given when the test given the
week that you know he popped. Obviously the test takes
several weeks, but he popped the week excuse me, he popped, Yeah,
the week of the faith and then the night of
the Faith. You don't start taking things the week of
the fight. In the night of the fight. Given the
rumors about how he showed up to New York in
terms of how how much weight he was over, I

(50:05):
believe somebody said, take this, some form of diarrectic take it.
And he didn't do his research any part. But he's
responsible for.

Speaker 3 (50:12):
Yeah, for sure, it's just is what it is. But
now he's got twelve months, which he probably needs, but
only if he uses that twelve months in the right.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
He now slowing down. No, he's stirring things up. Yeah,
crazy everywhere he can.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
I mean I think I think he caught me up
a couple of weeks ago. Somebody sent me a twist.
Let's do that's another story. Have you talked to Devon.

Speaker 3 (50:32):
Hamy, Yeah, a few times. Yeah, I think he's taking
it rough honestly, like you know, and again because of
what he went through physically in that fight and also
the world that we live in so crazy. Now he's
getting criticized. People are going, oh, you're making excuses. It's like, WHOA,
hang on a minute, I lost to the guy. He

(50:53):
came in heavy. He was positive for peds on the night,
like people should. I think people should actually feel sorry
for Devin, do you know what I mean? Regardless of
the performance, which is poor, he went through a lot
that night.

Speaker 1 (51:04):
He's got to own a performance that just comes with
the territory. But what he was stood in there fighting
swollen jaw. I mean, it's disputaball and if it was
broken or not, and not looking for a way out.
I messaged him after as a fight, I said, but
I will always respect you standing up and getting through that.

Speaker 3 (51:21):
Fighting, because that's probably one of the things we didn't
know about Devin. We know he's Welsh schooled, we know
he's got a great job. We know he's got a
good k Do you have.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
That in him?

Speaker 1 (51:31):
You know? Last one for me, what is your advice
to him to move forward? You know there's some psychological
things you got to overcome, some physical things. You got
to build up some confidence and try to get back
in position.

Speaker 2 (51:42):
How does he do it?

Speaker 3 (51:44):
I think he has to relook at his team and
his system. You know what I mean? I think that
his dad is I love Bill. You know, he's got
his back one hundred percent, but is he necessarily the
right person to take him forward strategically in the ring.
I mean, he knows him inside out, and yeah, but
I don't like I never like this three or four

(52:06):
trainer thing where they're in the change room they're doing
pads with him. AJ went through that system when he
bloxs LUSI, he was so lost. You know, he's got
one guy working on the noodles doing his defense. He's
got another guy, you know. And back in the day
it was Rob McCracken, who you know, you know, and
it was just Rob, you know. And Rob got him
through the Clichko fight when he got dropped and he
sat him down, he says, listen to me, and you

(52:28):
trust so much in this man. You had it with
Virgil like you don't need to listen to anyone. You
don't need noodles over it, you know. And with Devin
it's like right over this guy. Now. So when you
come unstuck in a fight and all of a sudden
you got these four guys going no dodger and you're going,
oh oh, that's when you need the one guy to
look you in the eyes. And saying listen, this is
what you need to do right now. And I think

(52:48):
they they'd never been through that before. No one in
that corner had been through that situation before, and it
was all just a little bit, you know. I think
you have to look at your training team. I think
you have to look at your weight, you know. I
mean the problem is is it's all very well saying
you're too big for thirty five, and then you get
to forty and you struggle a little bit and you
say I'm too big for forty. Then you're going up
against big, strong guys at forty seven, do you know

(53:10):
what I mean? And you know, I think Devin's chin's
good enough, but he's been hurt a couple of times.
He was hurt by Ryan, you know, at forty seven.
Will the wait allow him to be a little bit
more robust or will he just not be strong enough
at forty seven?

Speaker 1 (53:23):
So you're saying he should reassess Bill being in position
as a trainer, and.

Speaker 3 (53:28):
No, I think Bill business Bill's done a great job
for Devin on the business keeper made him a lot
of money, you know, so but now the strategic play,
I think Bill, Bill's business wise Bill's going to get
the best deal for business, like one hundred percent. I
like Bill a lot, but sometimes when it's your son,
do you know what I mean? You just need that
little bit of because you're a little bit, you know,

(53:50):
and that's in the ring. Out the ring, you're a
little bit my son. He's like, you need that little
bit of reality from a trusted source because the next
steps are so important. You mess up on the next steps.
Like now everyone's probably going to be calling for the
rematch with Ryan, and that won't be till the middle
of next year, right, So what you're you gonna do
in the meantime? You stat forty you got forty seven.

(54:13):
You got to take the right fight. He still wants
a lot of money to fight. You know, Devin's made
a lot of money, and this is the situation now
you've got to really want it. I'm not saying that
you may never see Devin hating in the ring again,
but I don't think he's rushing back, do you know
what I'm saying. I think probably he's lost a little
bit of love for the sport through what happened, and
I think that's you know, and I think he's made

(54:35):
a lot of money. He's taking a little bit of
a beat in that night. Now's the questions coming, how
bad do you want it? You know, the minute of
fighter he starts fighting for money, just one more. I
just like they're not the same.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
Fire, and you're asking yourself do you still have it?

Speaker 3 (54:49):
Yeah? Do I still have it? Do I still want it?
You know, I got fifteen meal in the bank. You know,
I've got the color then I've got this. Life is good,
and I'm still hungry because you know, once the hut, guys,
I mean, you know, I know we're wrapping up, but
when you walked away, I know you had, you know,

(55:09):
some injuries and stuff like that, But did you lose
the hunger for it?

Speaker 1 (55:14):
I think for me, I wanted to retire probably two
or three years before I did. Why because I had
given up my childhood to do it started at nine
years old. And I'm not saying that I'm the hardest
worker in the sport, but similar to how you describe yourself,
I work extremely hard and I'm very locked in on

(55:35):
what I got to do. So on vacation, I'm thinking
about weight, I'm thinking about next moves. I'm on the
phone talking about the next fight. I wanted my freedom back.
I didn't want to have to be that guy all
the day. You lose a little bit, and that's just
going through the highs and lows of the sport, the
physical toll, being away from family, politics, lawsuits, politics. Certain point,

(55:56):
you look at the bank account, you do the math,
you see, I'm good. Then you have to really net
out how much you really want to do it. So
I think for two years before I wanted to walk
it wasn't the right time. And after Covid leve one,
I thought it was time. And I'm thankful I didn't
walk away at that time. And my pastor he was like, bro,
I think you got one more in you. I went
and did the one more and then the rest is history.

(56:18):
So but yeah, you have to find reasons beyond your
reasons have to evolve throughout the years. Once you've had
the money, Okay, that was one reason. Security, that's another reason, belts, Okay,
we got that, now, why do you want to do it?
The reason I was able to keep going even when
I didn't want to because I love to win and
I hate to lose. You seemed to be like that too.

Speaker 3 (56:41):
Yeah, I hate to this. The reason I ask you
that is because from a little bit of self canseling
for myself. You know, because when you live that life
and you want to win so badly, it consumes your
whole world. Like boxing consumes my world from five o'clock
in the morning till three o'clock in the morning every night,
you know what I mean. And I love boxing like

(57:03):
it's my entire life. But like you say, it's that
one day where you just want to you might just
set yourself free. That's why when I look at Bob,
I give him the respect because I go at fifty,
I think I'll just you know, it's another little career
and maybe another spool, maybe on the beach, spend more
time with the kids, have grown up, you know what
I mean. So life is fascinating.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
You've earned that right, brother. I appreciate your stopping buying
men to having a conversation. Can thank you.