March 31, 2025 • 66 mins
In this episode of The Blunt Dollar, I sit down with Eric Sim, former UBS Managing Director turned author, educator, and personal branding expert.
Eric’s journey is anything but typical. He started helping his father at a hawker stall in Singapore and rose to one of the top roles in global banking. Then he pivoted again to build a personal brand that reaches millions on LinkedIn.
We talk about:
📈 How Eric built a personal brand while still working in investment banking
📉 Why many finance professionals make branding mistakes (and how to fix them)
🧠 The power of storytelling and small actions in career growth
💬 The underrated strategy of writing to unlock new opportunities
🔁 What it means to build a “portfolio career” and future-proof your skills
👥 And how real-world relationships are still the most powerful growth hack
Eric shares how small, consistent actions helped him build not just a brand but a life filled with meaning, connection, and opportunity (and how you can do the same).
If you're a finance professional wondering how to evolve, grow, or pivot, this episode is for you.
Oh, and if you haven't already... subscribe to The Blunt Dollar for more raw and honest finance conversations.
New episodes drop every other week! Available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your podcasts.
And last, but not least, don't forget to follow me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ignacio-ramirez-moreno-cfa/
Enjoy the episode!
Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. It does not constitute financial, investment, or legal advice. Listeners should consult a qualified financial professional before making any financial decisions.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I've seen so many people.
They just write and they don'tbother to engage A lot of people
.
They tend to think but what'sin your head right?
Sometimes it's not clear.
Writing gives you clarity.
So the burger is your corespecialization, the fries is
your secondary specializationand the coke is your interest.
You don't need a large audience, but you do need engagement.
(00:21):
For many of my readers and Isay hey, you read it once, why
do you want to read again?
Six months later, even theyread the same chapters, their
findings is different becausethey have changed.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Eric Sim is here with us today, a person that went
from working at a hawker stallin Singapore to becoming a
managing director at UBSInvestment Bank.
Literally, on LinkedIn, he hasclose to 3 million followers,
and some of your ideas are sodeep, so tell us about your book
.
It's for people who.
(01:18):
This is the Blonde Dollar withIgnacio Ramírez.
Ignacio Ramírez, your ownresearch and consult a qualified
advisor before making anyfinancial decisions.
All investments involve risk,including the potential loss of
capital.
And now let's get started withthe episode.
Welcome everyone to a newepisode of the Blunt Dollar.
Today, I'm joined by someone whohas redefined what it means to
(01:40):
succeed in finance.
Eric Sim is here with us today,a person that went from working
at a hawker stall in Singaporeto becoming a managing director
at UBS Investment Bank, but hedidn't stop there.
He built a personal brand thatnow reaches millions of people,
literally on LinkedIn.
(02:01):
He has close to 3 millionfollowers over there.
He became an author, a keynotespeaker and an educator, proving
that success in finance is nolonger about climbing just one
ladder.
It's about building your ownpath.
In this episode, we'll talkabout how he transitioned from
banking to personal branding,the power of a portfolio career,
(02:23):
and why small, deliberateactions can create a massive
career impact.
If you're in finance and youare wondering how to
future-proof your career, buildinfluence online or make a
bigger impact beyond the usualspreadsheets, this conversation
is for you, eric welcome to theshow.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Nacho, thanks for having me.
I'm very excited to be on yourpodcast.
I'm very, very excited too.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Obviously, today we're going to be talking a lot
about personal branding and yourjourney, but maybe, before we
get started, in a couple ofwords what is it that you're
doing today, exactly?
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Today I'm really a teacher, so I teach in the
universities.
I teach through my book SmallAction.
I teach through coachingindividual senior executive.
I also write on LinkedIn for mystudents and for young
professionals out there.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
So you're one of those people that I think does
the day also have the samenumber of hours for him than for
me, Because it looks likeyou're doing so much stuff.
I don't know how you manage tofit all of that at the same time
.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I eat the same thing every week, I go to the gym at
the same time and I wear a whiteshirt, blue suit every day.
White shirt, blue suit everyday.
So my life is very simple androutine, allowing me to think
about what to write on LinkedInwhat is going to be my next
speech about, and also helps mereflect about my life, because
(03:58):
many people ask me what did I doin my life such that I can
climb from helping my father inthe Singapore street food store
up to UBS Investment Bank MD.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
That's super interesting because I've read
that a lot of successful leaders, people with lots of
responsibilities, such as USpresidents and so on, either
they dress up the same way everyday or they have someone else
picking up the clothes for themso that they don't have to
allocate mental space for that.
I never tried it myself, butmaybe I should at some point.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
If you start trying, then you realize the power, Then
I think you will do more andmore of it.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
So I want to start the conversation talking about
personal branding in finance,because many finance
professionals focus solely onclimbing the corporate ladder,
but few consider the power ofpersonal branding, and clearly
you are an example here.
You successfully transitionedfrom being an MD at UBS to an
influential thought leader today.
(05:08):
What inspired you to startbuilding your personal brand
while still working in banking?
Speaker 1 (05:14):
I didn't start to think about personal branding.
I didn't know about personalbranding.
What I wanted to do is to sharemy thoughts, my failures, with
my students and I thought maybewriting a blog would be useful
and also I can help myselfreflect on my past life.
(05:35):
So I tried writing a blog.
I put it on Facebook.
Nobody read because my friendson Facebook they knew me when I
was young.
I was a loser.
Then I didn't do so well inschool.
I didn't do well in my firstfew jobs, so very few engagement
(05:57):
and writing on WordPress.
I don't even know whatWordPress is until today.
Then I tried on LinkedIn and itworked Somehow.
There are like 100 people whoread my first article.
I was very surprised becausewhatever I wrote in school only
(06:18):
got two views.
You know, one is my teacher,the other one is me, and neither
of us liked my article.
And now on LinkedIn, my firstpost I've got 10 likes and they
are random people, strangers.
Where did they come from?
So that inspired me to continueand I then stumbled upon oh,
there's this thing calledpersonal branding.
(06:39):
So I didn't start out to buildmy personal brand.
I really wanted to share careerskills with my students.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
So it was like a journey.
It was like very altruistic innature from what you're saying
and you really figured thingsout along the way, which is how
things happen a lot of times inlife.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Yeah, I out things out.
I was working in um, in banks,and also teaching in several
universities.
Uh, for about 20 years.
I was having two, two careerand more and more students asked
me, uh, beside banking, uh,about life skills, about career
(07:23):
skills.
So that's how I started.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
So many professionals across industries, but I'd say
for sure in the finance industrytoo hesitate when it comes to
promoting themselves becausethey fear being seen as arrogant
or not serious.
But you've shown that personalbranding can be done
authentically and strategically.
(07:48):
It can serve both purposes.
So, in your view, how canfinance professionals overcome
the fear of self-promotion andstart building their brand with
confidence?
Speaker 1 (08:02):
You want to build your brand doesn't mean that you
need to show your achievement.
You don't have to put a lot ofselfies.
So in fact, I hardly put selfieon my post.
A lot of times I put photosthat I'm in a group discussion,
student talking to me right, meand somebody else doing a walk
(08:24):
and talk, not me taking my phone.
And you know, shooting a photoof myself I.
I don't like that.
And number two uh, you can stillwrite a lot by interviewing
people.
So I interviewed my tailor, theshoe polisher in London.
I just interviewed the generalmanager of Grand Hyatt, hong
(08:48):
Kong, asking him how he retainsstaff.
Many of his staff worked therefor 20, 30 years and if you talk
about somebody, their trade isalso part of you.
If you say somebody is creative, you must be creative,
otherwise you cannot tell thatthe person is creative.
(09:09):
If you say that this person isa professional, you also have
some professionalism in youbefore you can say that.
So it's not necessarilyself-promotion, it can be
sharing other people's story oryour own failures.
So I failed many times.
(09:31):
I failed interviews, Istruggled when I was young and I
shared those.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
You also got rejected from a PhD program, right.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Yes, I was rejected by Princeton PhD program.
I wanted to be a teacher, so Ithought if I want to teach in a
university I must get a PhD.
So I applied and of course theysaid, unfortunately we cannot
admit you, but we'll put you ona waiting list.
(10:03):
Today I'm still waiting.
After this I'm going to go downto the letterbox.
Hopefully they send me a letterthat they accept me.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Well, I mean, you clearly showed that there's many
different ways to do things,and today you're teaching.
You don't have your PhD, butyou're doing things your own way
.
And if that rejection helped tolight a fire in you, uh, to
keep pushing forward, then so beit.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
you know it was maybe , yeah, so sometimes, when you
get rejected, it's not the endof things.
Um, so I use my investmentbanking experience, my md title,
to teach in hong konguniversity of science and
technology, and the school gaveme an adjunct associate
professor title.
So I got to be a professorwithout a PhD and I still make
(10:52):
my money in banking.
The only thing is that I needto wait for 16 years before I
buy professorship.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Well, vahir, you are well done.
Congrats to you.
That's all fantastic, Sorry.
So there are countless ways tobuild a brand.
There's content creation,there's networking, there's
speaking engagements, you nameit but not everything delivers
the same ROI.
For busy finance professionals,the challenge clearly is
(11:20):
knowing where to focus theirvery limited time.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
So if someone in finance wants to build a
personal brand but only has,let's say, 20% of time to invest
where, should they start, soyou can comment on posts, posts
written by people who inspireyou, posts on topics that you
(11:46):
want to build your thoughtleadership in.
So that's one.
Number two is you can have alot of ideas by reflecting in
your own life the time youchange job, you change country
what happened?
There must be some challenges.
So that is one area that youcan write about, and the easiest
(12:08):
thing is to write aboutpersonal stories with
professional application, yourpersonal stories.
So no right and wrong.
Professional application.
It means that your posts, yourcontent, must have use for your
readers, not just talking aboutyou attended this conference,
(12:32):
you gained so much, but what isit in for the leaders?
I don't suggest people talkabout their achievement to say
that, oh, I'm a speaker here, Igot this award, I'm on the cover
of this magazine.
Those are of no use to otherpeople.
Don't do that.
Make sure that you havesomebody in mind.
(12:55):
Is it a young financeprofessional that you want to
help?
Is it somebody in assetmanagement that you want to give
advice to?
What kind of advice do you wantto give?
Is it somebody in assetmanagement that you want to give
advice to?
What kind of advice do you wantto give?
Is it career advice or is itknowledge in that particular
asset class?
Speaker 2 (13:14):
So can you give us an example I love what you said of
personal stories withprofessional applications.
Do you have an example for ourlisteners of what that would
look like in practice?
Speaker 1 (13:26):
I have a post.
The title is Worst Investmentin my Life.
I invested in two properties inMalaysia Johor Bahru about 10
years ago, so that's when theeconomy was doing well, and I
thought this is the nextShenzhen, because I was working
(13:47):
in Hong Kong.
Shenzhen, property prices goneup and a lot of hype, so I
bought two properties thinkingthat I can make a lot of money.
No, the transportation, theconnection between Singapore and
Malaysia, did not materialize.
They're supposed to build akind of metro between the two
(14:10):
countries.
So that fell off.
Political instability, so theproperty prices dropped.
Foreign exchange I made a hugeloss because the Malaysian
ringgit weakens a lot.
So I post that.
And it resonated with people.
So that's my personal story.
(14:32):
What is the professionalapplication?
Number one do your duediligence, don't follow the
crowd.
Number two don't beoverconfident, because your past
investment success may notimply your future investment
success, which is what happenedto me.
(14:53):
And number three considerpolitical risk as well and
foreign exchange risk.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
That's pretty good.
No-transcript traction that'sreally cool.
(15:32):
Um, by the way, like you'remostly focused on linkedin right
like you're, you're not thatactive on other platforms other
platform, I hardly post anything, okay.
So a lot of people assume thatpersonal branding requires
having tens of thousands offollowers if you're active on
(15:56):
social media.
But you've demonstrated, andfrom what you're telling me,
that helping others and havingan impact on someone matters
more than just audience size.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
What advice?
Speaker 2 (16:12):
yeah, my question is what advice would you give to
finance professionals that wantto build a strong personal brand
but don't have a large audienceyet?
Speaker 1 (16:21):
You don't need a large audience, but you do need
engagement.
You don't need a large audience, but you do need engagement.
So write your post with aquestion, with a call to action,
and when somebody commentsactively, engage them, reply,
(16:42):
can ask them some question, andyou can also engage them offline
.
So I decide writing on LinkedIn.
I host networking events everyquarter in different cities, so
sometimes I go to Hong Kong or Igo to London.
Then I will gather my followers.
You don't need a lot, right 10followers to come for the
(17:02):
networking event and thesepeople will give you ideas, what
they like, so you can writemore of that.
And if they have met you, theyare more likely to engage with
your future posts.
And once you have seen them,you talk to them.
You know what they need so youcan write better and that is how
you build your community.
(17:24):
So I've got three Cs for thosepeople who want to build their
brand, especially financeprofessionals.
Number one is content, which wetalk about, personal stories
with professional application.
Number two is community.
I've seen so many people theyjust write and they don't bother
to engage.
That's wrong.
Engage with your followers,with your connection online and
(17:49):
offline.
And number three is consistency.
If you want to write once aweek, it's fine.
Just make sure you write once aweek.
I put it on my calendar Tuesdaymorning 7.45.
I'll post.
I've seen people who write oncea month.
That's also good.
But there are also a lot offinance professionals who write
(18:11):
as and when they have timebecause this doesn't make you
money, it's not top priority andyou know, in our banking job a
lot of time you're under revenuepressure, families might have
emergencies, so writing onLinkedIn, building your brand,
becomes low priority andsometimes you don't post for
(18:33):
three to four months and then,when you're free, you post every
other day.
That inconsistency will not bevery helpful, because people can
see that you are not there allthe time.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
I love those three Cs Really really nice Community,
content and consistency.
I'll write that in a post-itand put it on my computer screen
.
But you said something thatreally resonated with me, which
is the power of real-lifeconnections.
For sure, I'm 100% agreeingwith you.
The best way to grow and builda personal brand is exchanging
(19:13):
with others.
So really, if you want to growon no matter which platform it
is, just spend more timecommenting and chatting with
people than creating content, atleast at the beginning.
I mean, it's called socialmedia for a reason.
It has to be social.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Yeah, and for me, building connection is not just
doing it as and when convenient.
I'm going to the US, so I'mgoing to meet one of my LinkedIn
connection.
I've never met him before, butwe have collaborated.
His name is Chris Mathieu,living in LA.
So I'm going to meet one of myLinkedIn connection.
I've never met him before, butwe have collaborated.
His name is Chris Mathieu,living in LA.
So I'm going to Brazil for atalk, so I'll make my way up to
(19:52):
Los Angeles, meet up with himbefore I go to Chicago and I'll
meet you in Chicago.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Yeah, I was going to say so.
We are meeting in person inChicago at the CFA Life Summit.
I'm so excited about that.
There's going to be over athousand finance professionals.
There's going to be a bunch ofpanels.
You are going to be deliveringa keynote speech there that I'm
very excited about, aboutpersonal branding.
So if you work in the financeindustry, make sure to come.
(20:21):
It's the place to be from the4th till the 7th of May and it's
just a great opportunity to dowhat you're just saying, like
creating meaningful real lifeconnection and talking to other
people.
I'm super excited about this,honestly.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Yes, and I'm also planning to go to Panama to meet
one of my connection.
So that's what I do I go aroundand see.
So when I travel, it's not tovisit the places of interest but
to meet people.
I was in Paris last summer.
My top priority is to meetsomebody who got my book and he
(20:58):
wanted me to sign.
So that is more important thanseeing the Eiffel Tower.
But of course he was also veryconsiderate.
I did his book signing belowEiffel Tower.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Killing two birds in one shot.
Yeah, that's really cool, bythe way.
So tell us about your book.
What is the name of your bookand what is it about?
Hey there, quick favor to askIf you enjoy the blunt dollar,
the unfiltered takes, thestories and the laughs.
The easiest way to support theshow is by tapping that
subscribe button right now whileyou're listening.
(21:34):
And here's my promise If you do, I'll keep bringing you honest
conversations, freshperspectives and the kind of
finance talk that's engaging,insightful and worth your time.
Thanks so much for being hereand let's keep these great
finance conversations going.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
My book is called Small Actions Leading your
Career to Big Success.
It's for people who feel stuck,for people who don't have much
confidence, like me when I wasyoung, and it's difficult to
take big action.
It's difficult to to move.
Sometimes you got handicap.
(22:14):
Okay, if I want to move up, Ineed to spend $200,000 on an MBA
.
That is a big move, right, butI say that you not necessarily
must do that.
You can take some small action,like reaching out to people
knowing a restaurant so wellthat the moment you walk in, the
(22:34):
manager calls out your name.
If you can do that, you will beable to entertain and going the
extra mile for your clients, ifyou have clients.
Sometimes my client call me ona weekend and they say, hey, can
you pass me this information?
I'll do it for that.
So things like all these littlethings helps you form your
brand, build your trust.
(22:55):
Be five minutes early for everymeeting.
Then you gain trust and alwaysdeliver a little bit more than
what you promised.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Ah, that's good, but yeah, I like the part about
small actions, because we tendto focus on the big fat
objective.
But I had this sentence thatcame to my mind where you were
talking, which is paralysis byanalysis.
So when you just focus on thebig thing, big fat objective,
you don't know where to start,whilst if you break it down in
(23:25):
small things and take some smallsteps, it seems a lot more
feasible, and one small stepadds to another small step and
you end up going a long way.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Yeah so my book has got 66 chapters and I wrote, uh,
two chapters a week.
Each chapter is four pages, sowriting like one page a day on
average.
At the end of nine months I gota book.
If you want to build yourlinkedin, write one article to
(23:56):
two articles a week.
By the end of three, four yearsyou will have 200 articles to
300 articles.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Yeah, that's not a small feat three, four years but
definitely if you just writeevery now and then, it's
definitely feasible.
So you're talking about books.
Obviously, to write a book youneed to be very good at
storytelling, and I think you'vemastered that craft.
(24:25):
Facts and figures may drive thefinance industry, but stories
really is what drives engagement, and even like market
narratives, I'd argue, why isstorytelling such a powerful
tool for personal branding andespecially, why is it so
important in finance?
You realize that humans.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
They are attracted to stories, and stories are being
passed down.
Facts people tend to forget.
I can throw you some numbersright, I can throw you the GDP
or the names of some cities,after a while you forget.
But if I tell you a story of me, say, helping my father at the
(25:04):
hawker store, I was washingbowls, I was cutting my hand
After cutting chili, I rubbed myeyes, then my eyes got burned
and I cut my hand so I wasbleeding and so it's blood and
sweat.
That type of business, you, you, then you feel for it because
you can visualize.
(25:24):
So stories uh helps to engagethe heart of people.
Yeah, they remember you, theyremember uh story better.
That's why story is much morepowerful and in my book, 66
(25:45):
chapters, so there's one storyin each chapter and followed by
professional application.
So in fact, my chinese book, myChinese publisher, changed the
title from Small Actions to Tellyour Story.
Well, that is the name of thebook I've got the.
Chinese version down here.
(26:06):
In Chinese it's called JiangHao.
Ni De Gu Shi means Tell yourStory Well.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Did your book work better in China or in the rest
of the world, or is it equal?
Speaker 1 (26:19):
I think it's about the same.
China is a big market, um, sochinese as a single country.
The chinese version is uh, thedid the best, but english,
because I've got Singapore, hongKong, uk, us and plus India as
well.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
So that few markets combined is about the same as
China market Very well, so onelast question about personal
brand before moving to the nextblog.
What is the biggest mistakethat you see professionals, and
namely finance professionalsmaking when trying to build a
(26:58):
personal brand?
What is the number one thingthat you keep seeing over and
over again and you're like not agood decision.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Number one is there are a few.
One is sometimes they sharevery technical topic because
finance can be quite technicaland they didn't want to write
their own opinion.
They just share maybe somearticle by a bank or by a
newspaper.
So by sharing you don't buildyour personal brand, you are
(27:30):
just a distributor.
So that is one number.
Two may not happen in finance,but I've seen some people who
overdo it.
They, they show themselves toomuch.
It's always.
I'm proud to achieve this.
I am excited to be speaking atthis event.
(27:50):
You know always that and peopleget sick of it after a while
and they stop listening to whatyou say.
So these two are the morecommon mistakes.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
So being overly technical on being too and
humble brags, let's put it thatway, yeah, so now I want to talk
about careers, because intraditional finance,
professionals are oftenencouraged to focus on one path
(28:23):
and specialize, like you know,become an investment banker and
stay there and go very deep, oran asset manager and so on.
But you advocate for the ideaof what you call a portfolio
career, which is whereindividuals develop multiple
income streams and skillsinstead of just relying on one.
(28:47):
But in your own words, can youexplain us, give us a bit more
color on what is a portfoliocareer and why do you believe
this is the future of work?
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Yeah, most people are multi-talented, just that you
don't realize.
In finance, you think that allyou can do is finance.
No, maybe you can write, youcan sing, you can do sports
there's so many other thingsJust that in finance, you tend
to get paid a lot more usingyour financial skills than
(29:19):
writing.
That's right, but we must alsoremember that our happiness
comes from being able to use ourskills to contribute or to do
something that we are passionateabout.
Yeah, so it's not always aboutmoney.
So a portfolio career is youhave one career that gives you
(29:42):
money say banking, finance Thenyou have another career that
gives you fulfillment, anotherone that gives you meaning,
another one that gives yourelationship.
So when you have relationship,meaning fulfillment and some
money, then your life is morecomplete.
Your life is going to bemiserable if you got no
(30:03):
relationship, if you're notdoing things that you are
passionate about.
So portfolio career is toenrich your life, but not
necessarily monetary wise.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
That's very interesting.
It made me think about what'sthis Japanese concept that is
very trendy at the moment ikigai?
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Ikigai, ikigai, the reason to wake up.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
It's more or less similar to what you were saying,
like finding the balancebetween what you're good at,
what you're passionate about,what you're passionate about
what you.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Yeah.
So Ikigai is like they have gota few criteria, so you need to
find somewhere that intersectswhat you're good at, what can
you get paid for and how you canmake use of your skills.
But that is.
Ikigai is like finding onething that you are passionate
(30:59):
about and then you still can getpaid for.
What I'm talking about is youcan do things that you don't
like but you get paid for.
That's okay.
You satisfy the money part.
You can do something that youlike but you don't get paid a
lot, for example, teaching inthe universities.
You get fulfillment, that'sokay.
(31:22):
Another thing is you're doingvolunteer work, but you get
relationship.
You have a chance to be onstage.
Maybe you hit up a charityorganization or you join a
non-profit as a volunteer.
That gives you exposure topeople that you like to work
(31:42):
with.
That's okay.
And you combine all these threeall these three then you have a
very enriched life yeah, that'ssuper interesting.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
I mean many, many things coming to my mind.
First of all, I guess you knowlike doing this is also
something that people that arelike in the middle part of their
career or later stage of theircareer are more prone to relate
to.
Because I speak for myself whenI started working as a fixed
(32:16):
income advisor 13 years ago, thefirst thing I was thinking
about was just becoming the bestfixed income advisor out there.
I wanted to get my technicalsright.
I did my CFA and I wanted to beperceived as an expert in the
field, and that, for years, wasthe key priority in every single
(32:40):
way.
And as the years evolved, Irealized that, on top of that
which I'm very passionate aboutso financial markets and the
fixed income asset class itselfI also realized that in order to
find fulfillment, I needed alsolike to to connect with people.
I've always been veryextroverted, so I started
talking more to my colleagues,having more launches inside and
(33:03):
outside of work and justexchanging with others, and I
found that very rewarding.
And lately, I would argue inthe last couple of years, uh,
for me it's been a lot aboutcreating and I discovered I have
a very creative side.
Um, that I, I I was maybe notalways able to express in a
spreadsheet sometimes you can,but sometimes you can't and, uh,
(33:27):
and, and and that I discoveredthanks to yeah, to social media,
linkedin, namely, and aninitiative such as this one you
know where I'm talking in apodcast with interesting people.
But all of that came with thetime right, like I wouldn't have
been able to do that from dayone.
It's just been a journey, and Ithink you have to follow your
(33:47):
God and it will be different foreach of us.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
My suggestion is to incorporate your interest into
your work.
If you like public speaking,conduct a training for other
departments so you can practiceyour public speaking.
Crack a joke.
If you like design, make sureyou do the best PowerPoint with
beautiful fonts and animation,so that's how you can develop
(34:14):
design skills.
If you like photography, be acameraman for clients, event
volunteer, take videos, edit andsend it to your clients, send
it to your colleagues, so inthis way you will be able to
develop them and see whether youcan get good at them.
People tend to like what theyare good at.
(34:37):
Yeah, at the beginning, if youare not good in many things, you
just need to keep trying.
I didn't know I liked writing.
In fact, I failed my Englishwhen I was in school.
I didn't know.
I liked design.
I'm an engineer by training.
Design in terms of color, interms of fonts, that was the
furthest away from my mind.
As I'm an engineer by training,you know.
(34:57):
Design in terms of color, interms of fonts, that was the
furthest away from my mind as anengineer.
As long as it works, thecheapest method, it doesn't
matter if it looks ugly, makesure that it works.
But now I realize that, hey,after trying, I do like design,
I do like the creative side ofthings.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
like you, I do like design, I do like the creative
side of things, like you, yeah,and all those skills or
interests that I've incorporatedinto my.
(35:38):
Summarizing everything you justsaid is the concept of being
intentional with your time andyour career, because a lot of
times we have this tendency towait for things to happen on
their own, or naturally, butmost of the time they won't.
Or naturally, but most of thetime they won't.
So, coming back to yourexamples, if you like design, be
(35:58):
intentional about it and say,hey, I work in finance.
Well, I'm going to, for thenext six months, make the best
presentations, powerpoints outthere and really take your own
destiny in your own hands andand let that uh side of you uh
come out on a, on a veryproactive and an intentional
(36:20):
basis, and, and, yeah, and, and,and.
After a few months, I'm surethat you will be in a much
better place than where you aretoday.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
yes, so at around uh 2001 I.
I just bought my mac, um theimac, I like it so much.
I said how can I use my Mac andhow can I combine my finance
skills?
I programmed Black Show'soption pricing model onto my Mac
using one of the computerprogramming language that Mac
(36:51):
recognize.
That's what I like to do.
I took a day off my annualleave to do that.
That's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
I love it.
You often talk about theconcept of being a combo
specialist, someone who combinesexpertise in two or more fields
to create unique careeropportunities.
In your case, obviously, youblended finance, education,
storytelling to build your brandand career beyond banking.
But tell us what is exactly acombo specialist and why is it
more powerful than being asingle discipline expert?
(37:26):
You know?
Speaker 1 (37:27):
when you go to McDonald's you are often being
presented with the combo meal.
So the burger is your corespecialization, the fries is
your secondary specializationand the Coke is your interest.
So we should always think ofourselves as having the core
(37:48):
specialization, the secondaryspecialization and our interest,
and that's how we can describeourselves.
When I first started out out,my burger was engineering, my
fries was finance and my coatwas mac anything about mac,
computer, about design.
So that that's how I combinethem.
(38:10):
And after a few years I combinecombined finance and
engineering.
So I did financial engineeringat Citi.
I asked my boss to give me somesales responsibility.
So selling become my fries, andmy code at that time was
Chinese business culture,because China was a big market.
(38:33):
And then I later on asked myboss to move me from city
Singapore to city Shanghai sothat I can learn even more about
the market.
And finally I got sellingskills.
I got expertise in the bigmarket and I got financial
engineering.
I got banking experience.
I did investment banking, soinvestment banking became my
(38:58):
burger.
What's my fries?
My fries is teaching, teaching,internally teaching in the
university, and my coke waswriting on linkedin.
So that's my new combo.
And then today I'm no longer inbanking, but what I've done in
the past now become useful, soI've got a few burgers now.
(39:21):
Uh, maybe the core one is, uh,being an author.
How did I become an author?
Because I was writing onlinkedin.
My price is teaching, teaching,speaking.
How did I do that?
Because I was giving internaltraining when I was in banking.
I was teaching colleagues fromother departments and today my
(39:47):
quote is video editing, continueto do design, continue to
engage with people and, ofcourse, relationship.
Very cool, wow, that's veryinspiring.
Combo Specialist makes youunique.
You are not just an engineer,but you can be an engineer who
knows design.
You are not just a banker.
You are a banker who has theheart to teach.
(40:07):
You are not just an author.
You are an author who can speakon stage.
So that's how you can describeyourself.
And Combo is not stagnant Everyfew years.
So that's how you can describeyourself.
And combo is not stagnant Everyfew years.
It moves, so you can upgradeyour fries.
You can change your Coke to anice cream, so it changes every
(40:29):
three to four years.
It will make you more adaptable.
And what's one thing, oneadvantage of this combo
specialist over aone-dimensional specialist is
when there's disruption in theindustry.
You can use your other skillset.
You can use your cope to buildrelationship and get a job.
(40:51):
Maybe your hardcore skills isno longer valid.
Imagine that your hard skillsis being replaced by AI, but you
still have selling skills.
You have people's relationship,you are an interesting person
to talk to.
Then somebody who knows youfrom before may take a bet on
you, hire you and you then havea chance to acquire and develop
(41:15):
your new hard skills.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
I love how you said that the combo doesn't stay
static over time, but everythree, four years it evolves and
you get a new burger, new fries, new sides.
That's pretty cool.
And how can financeprofessionals identify what
their burger is, what their fryis?
(41:39):
Is it what you're passionateabout?
Is it what you're good at?
Hey there, quick ad break.
Do you work in the financeindustry and have a genuinely
interesting story to share?
I'm always on the hunt forgreat guests who bring raw,
unfiltered insights to the table.
Or maybe you know someone witha story worth telling?
Please put us in touch.
(42:00):
You can reach out to medirectly via LinkedIn.
I'd love to hear from you.
And now back to the show.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
Burger is very clear what you are doing.
Say, for example, you are aportfolio manager.
That is your burger, right.
What is your fries?
Do you have a secondary?
Are you a fund manager whoneeds to also sell, or you are
more on the fundraising side?
Do you need selling skills?
(42:32):
So portfolio management isasset allocation.
Identifying the stock Sellingskill is also important.
How do you sell to investors?
How do you sell to your boss?
Then your code as a financeprofessional can be completely
different from finance.
You like to play foot?
You are a movie critic or youare a foodie that you can, and
(42:56):
how do you combine them?
If you are a foodie, that youcan, and how do you combine them
?
If you are foodie, bring yourclients to the best restaurant
that you know.
Make sure that the chef cancook a special dish for you and
your client.
If you like marathon, can youorganize a 5k run for your
company, for your clients,before you train them for the
(43:19):
marathon.
So so many things that you cancombine and do.
If you like to sing, you knowjoin the talent competition
within your bank.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Yeah, basically, follow your passion and the rest
will take care of it.
Really, so many professionals,particularly in the finance
industry, spend decades workingin the industry 10, 20, 30 years
, climbing corporate ladders andso on and at some point they
fill up its stock.
(43:52):
But you showed that you cansuccessfully pivot from banking
to an entirely new career.
So what advice would you havefor finance professionals who
want to make a pivot after yearsin the industry?
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Number one talk to young people, build relationship
with young people, becauseyoung people can give you new
ideas.
What do they need?
If you give them advice today,10, 20 years later they'll be
the MDs in the finance industry.
They can support you right?
So that's one.
Number two is set aside sometime, say in the evening.
(44:27):
Think about what you werepassionate about when you were
young.
Can you revisit them?
Get to know people from otherindustry.
You can use LinkedIn to reachout.
When you talk to new people,you will get new ideas A lot of
time right?
We tend to talk to people inperson because people say that
(44:48):
meeting in person is best, it'sbetter than meeting people
online.
But when you meet somebody inperson, if you try to know
somebody, you are in the samecity, same country.
You, chanjaza, you are in thesame industry, so the new people
that you meet in person isunlikely to be so different from
(45:08):
you and Chanjaza same age group.
But once you go online, right,I'm meeting somebody from
Burkina Faso.
Somebody say I bought your book.
I say you're from Burkina Faso.
Where is that?
I don't think my book isavailable in this place.
So, oh, this is a country inAfrica.
How do you get my book.
I got a friend who is in Paris.
(45:29):
I asked him to buy the book andbring it back.
You know I will never meetsomebody who is from Burkina
Faso in Singapore in the financeconference no chance.
But online is possible.
Possible to meet a chef,possible to meet super young
people, people who are 20 yearsyounger than me.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
And talking about relationships, a lot of people
focus on impressing peers, but Ifind one of the hardest things
is probably managing andbuilding relations Also with
like senior leaders, like a boss, an MD, high profile type of
(46:12):
people.
What's your advice for buildingstrong relationships with
senior executives in finance?
Speaker 1 (46:21):
Many people use work to build relationship with
senior and that is wrong,because if you are portfolio
manager, you want to talk to thebig boss on portfolio
management.
If you are skipping yourimmediate boss to talk to the
big boss, your immediate bossmay feel insecure right, and the
(46:44):
big bosses already talk aboutfinance with so many people
under him every day.
However, you can talk aboutinterest, so find out the
interest of all these big bosses.
If you have some similarinterest, you can use that.
If you talk about marathon,even with the ceo two, three
(47:06):
levels above you, it's okay,your immediate boss not going to
feel insecure because you'retalking about marathon football.
Talk about art, design or thelatest book you read.
So you use that topic andsometimes, when there are
foreign guests, foreign seniorleaders coming to be coming to
your city to visit the office,offer to take them out to the
(47:30):
restaurant that you know it canbe the street food can be the
fine dining restaurant.
So it's very important that youknow your food well and your
restaurant well.
Then you can entertain thesenior leaders.
So move away from work topicbut talk about interests and
hobbies, because everyone hasinterests and everyone likes
(47:53):
eating.
So that's a good combo.
And then, once the relationshipis built, naturally the big
bosses will ask hey, you've beenin this job for two, three
years.
What are you thinking next?
The big boss can move youacross department or move you to
another country, but their bosswill do that only if the
(48:17):
relationship with you is strongand personal.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
So the industry, like the financial industry, has
this notorious reputation forbeing high pressure, filled with
strong personalities, sometimesdifficult personalities either,
like a very demanding boss, avery demanding client.
There's things like toughnegotiations going on, there's
(48:40):
conflicts and so on, so it's notthe easiest of the industries.
I would say what's yourapproach for handling difficult
people in high stakes financeenvironments?
Speaker 1 (48:52):
So number one you need to know their stage of life
.
Are they single, married withkids?
People who are single, chancesare they will be interested in
looking for a partner.
So if you can organizenetworking event and invite them
, they are more likely to lowertheir guard.
(49:13):
If they just got married, thenthey can focus a lot on work.
If they got kids, they'll bevery happy if you can take over
some of their work, the mundanestuff, the mundane task so that
they can go home earlier to seetheir young kids.
So understanding somebody'sstage of life is key.
(49:35):
Number two understand theirinterests.
Usually even the most difficultperson has a soft spot.
You know they still will likecertain things, so you need to
figure out what that is.
Number two is you don't have togo to them directly.
You can go to the person who'sclose to them and kind of use a
(49:57):
middleman.
So check around.
Who are the people close tothis difficult person that you
want to build the relationshipwith?
To you this person is difficult, but to the other people maybe
he's just being like that, butinside he's really nice, he's
very caring.
So you can get more informationfrom other people and, of
(50:22):
course, if sometimes thechemistry doesn't work for you,
no matter how hard you try.
Then I suggest is to buildrelationship with various
department, build relationshipwith the seniors, with the head
of departments, and do aninternal transfer of good tips
(50:42):
over there.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
I want to go back now to the main topic of your book.
I mean, we've touched upon it alittle bit, but this whole
concept of small actions incareer growth.
So first question why do youbelieve small actions are more
important than big moves when itcomes to career growth?
Sometimes a big career move isdangerous.
(51:05):
Why do you believe smallactions?
Speaker 1 (51:05):
are more important than big moves when it comes to
career growth.
Sometimes a big career move isdangerous or very risky, so
people do not want to take thatrisk.
Number two is a lot of time weare being.
We are stuck.
The work is already sostressful.
You got no capacity to take bigaction.
That's why taking small actionin the same direction right is
(51:26):
already so stressful.
You got no capacity to take bigaction.
That's why taking small actionin the same direction right.
Say, for example, one smallaction you can take is make it a
point to buy coffee and lunch.
So every week you set aside 100US dollars.
This is just for buying.
So look at who the people arePeople you think may have
(51:47):
potential to be promoted, peoplewho you like, people who are
inspiring or people who are veryquiet.
You think you can help themtake them out.
After a year you spend a fewthousand dollars and your
relationship will improve.
And with relationship comeopportunities.
Speaker 2 (52:08):
This is a very long-term strategy, but if you
do it in a not self-interestedway, but more because you
genuinely care about the people,I can see why that definitely
works over the long term.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
So for me, I joined a club it's called Cricket Club.
I don't play cricket, I use itto host lunch, and that's how I
build relationships Small littlethings.
Because when you do somethingtoo big for somebody, they think
that you're trying to bribethem and they feel very
suspicious what your agenda isSomething small, yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:50):
Needs to feel genuine and small.
I like the concept of small.
You've talked in the past aboutthese one-minute favors, which
is like small things, likeintroducing two people sharing
an article, writing a thank you.
Note how those things can leadto unexpected career
opportunities.
Can you give an example of,maybe, how a small little
(53:13):
gesture led to a careerbreakthrough for you?
Speaker 1 (53:17):
Yeah.
So just now I was saying thatyear 2001,.
I bought iMac.
I became the expert in my bankand many people also got
interested, and they know thatI'm crazy about it.
Many people come and ask meabout Mac, whether they should
(53:37):
buy a Mac, and my big boss, twolevels above me, said hey,
should I buy a Mac?
I said please go ahead and buyand I'll come and teach you.
I'll become your personal tutorand you can call me anytime.
He bought.
The very night Next day hecalled me hey, I bought my Mac.
What to do?
I said if you want, I can cometo your house to teach you how
(53:58):
to use it.
So he invited me to his houseit's a big house, introduced me
to his family.
I got on very well with thefamily.
I had dinner with the familyand him.
Two years later I said that,hey, china is opening up, can
you transfer me to China?
He said, yes, he make it happen.
Two years later I saw hey, Igot enough experience in China,
(54:24):
now I want to move to Hong Kongto be more international.
So I told him and he said hey,I got enough experience in China
, now I want to move to HongKong to be more international.
So I told him and he said, yes,we will create a position for
you.
You can go to Hong Kong.
All of this is from buildingthat relationship from the Mac
Wow.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
You have to send that thank you note to the Apple
headquarters.
They're responsible for yourcareer success.
So career success, obviously Imean it's just not about talent.
There's also something aboutbeing perceived as trustworthy
(55:05):
and as someone that people wantto work with.
So what's your advice forfinance professionals who want
to build a strong reputation assomeone people can trust?
Speaker 1 (55:16):
If you want to be trustworthy, arrive five minutes
early, be honest with the riskthat you tell the clients and
tell your colleagues.
Always be helpful, becausesometimes, right, certain things
are very easy for us and thendifficult for other people.
(55:38):
If we help them it doesn't takea lot of effort, then we should
do that.
Then you can build trust andalso be consistent, being being
consistent like what you wear,what you eat.
If you are very consistent,yeah, naturally people trust you
.
Speaker 2 (55:55):
People feel like they can read you, they can predict
you yeah, and be, I guess,yourself also appear authentic,
um, and not fake things.
You've also said in the pastthat writing is an underrated
career growth strategy.
I wasn't expecting to talkabout writing in career growth
(56:16):
tips, but why do you believewriting is one of the most
underrated career growth hacks?
Speaker 1 (56:29):
Writing gives you clarity.
A lot of people they tend tendto think but what's in your head
, right?
Sometimes it's not clear.
When you put it out in writing,it helps, you becomes clearer
with your ideas, and then whenyou say it out, it it's easier.
So, for example, just now Italked about the combo
specialist.
Because, I need to write.
So how can I write this idea?
(56:53):
I came up with the McDonald'scombo meal Without writing.
Then it's something in my headand when I describe it it's not
going to be so easily visualized.
And once I write it down andthen I have this analogy it is
(57:15):
now very easy for somebody totell another person, even when
I'm not around.
So that's the beauty of writing.
And also writing is morepermanent.
Once you write is there, youcan revisit it, your, you can
revisit your own writing.
You learn something.
And also for many of my readers, they read my books, um, like
(57:41):
every six months and I said, hey, you read it once.
Why do you want to read againsix months later?
Even they read the samechapters, their findings is
different because they havechanged, they have taken action.
So that's that's the beauty ofwriting is permanently there.
But it's also different for thesame people at different stage
(58:04):
of their life.
Speaker 2 (58:06):
Yeah, I think there's something magical about putting
words into a piece of paper oreven on your computer.
It helps you structure yourthoughts In my case, like I post
about finance on LinkedIn, asyou know, and writing a post on
a market topic helps me not onlyunderstand better the story,
(58:28):
but also structure the way Ithink about it and it stays in
my brain a lot longer afterwards.
Yes, even if it's stuff thatmay not be directly related to
what I do on my day-to-day maybemore like those peripheral
topics, but it's pretty coolwhat happens in your brain when
(58:49):
you write.
Speaker 1 (58:51):
And for the listener out there, if you can say write
once a week on LinkedIn notbecause of followers, just for
your own journaling, yeah, it'slike journaling you are forced
to write.
When you're forced to write,then you start thinking deeper,
you start digging and yourealize that some things are
(59:15):
there, but because you didn'tdig, you didn't write, it stays
hidden.
But the moment you are forcedto write, you dig, dig it out
and you realize that you havegot so many ideas and some of
your ideas are so deep, so makeuse of it yeah, it's like going
(59:35):
to the psychologist a lot oftimes.
Speaker 2 (59:37):
it's just about getting you uh started and you
start talking and things comeout and you realize, oh wow, I
didn't realize I had that in meor in my brain, but it's just
because you were not put in asetup where you were left the
space to actually take it out.
Speaker 1 (59:55):
And I think writing is the same, so for those people
who write as and when they feellike it, as and when they have
time, they will never dig deepenough.
As and when they have time,they will never dig deep enough.
So, if you want to have somekind of a self-actualization, if
(01:00:17):
you want to develop your ownpotential, even more force
yourself to write.
Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
So a lot of people start writing when they're
finding challenges or difficultto deal with a specific
situation, just to help themstructure their thoughts.
And I wanted to ask you exactlyabout that.
Can you maybe share a storyabout one of your setbacks
you're facing in your financecareer and how do you address it
and how did you recover from it?
Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
One case was I was accused by my client that I make
them lose money.
So they were a Chinese realestate company.
So this was before thefinancial crisis back in 08.
So 07, they issue a US dollarbond.
(01:01:10):
I say that, hey, your revenueand your currency is in renminbi
, so you should swap your USdollar bond, the liability, into
RMB, and it will help you loweryour cost from 9% to 5%.
So lowering interest from 9% to5% save you 4%.
They say, yeah, it's a goodidea.
So they did that.
But RMB keeps getting strongerand stronger, so there's a
(01:01:30):
mark-to-market loss on thederivative.
It's a 5-year cross-currencyswap when the mark-to-market is
at a loss.
Then they came to me to say hey, eric, you betrayed our trust.
So I explained hey, no,although RMB is stronger, so
your revenue, your asset arealso stronger, so this is a
hedge, it just cancels out.
(01:01:51):
But I was very devastated thatI was being accused that I kind
of scammed them.
Fortunately, the financialcrisis came.
The RMB weakens and they turnfrom a loss to a gain and I
(01:02:12):
asked them to hey, your gain isnow getting bigger and bigger.
Why don't you unwind the swapand take the money and run?
Because their business waslosing money and now I can give
them some half a million cashout of the swap by unwinding.
So they did that, wrote them acheck for half a million US.
Until today they are verygrateful to me and regularly
(01:02:37):
asking me hey, any more swap todo, like the last time we did
and we maintained goodrelationship.
So that was one of the lowestpoint in my career but very
fortunately the market situationhelped me and I managed to turn
it around.
One of the few people orstories.
Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
I ever heard about anyone being happy financial
crisis in that specificsituation.
Always they understand ithelped, but, yeah, what happened
afterwards was trulydevastating.
But interesting story that,yeah, how trying to fix currency
mismatches led you to a hardconversation that later on
(01:03:18):
turned around.
We've been talking close to anhour, so we're very close to the
end.
I mean, I had a millionquestions for you.
Unfortunately, I only had theopportunity to ask you a few,
but maybe tell us, I mean,what's next for you.
You've built an impressivecareer across finance, education
(01:03:40):
and now personal branding.
What's next?
Travel and now personalbranding.
Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
What's next?
Travel?
So this year I'll be travelingto Brazil either Panama or
Mexico City then visitingLinkedIn offices, hopefully in
places that I have never been.
So that's for me to widen myperspective, and my publisher
(01:04:07):
has been chasing me to write thesecond book, and I'm not sure
whether I have enough content.
I'm thinking maybe this timearound I write for meet to
senior career professionalsabout what we talk about what we
talk today how to live afulfilling life, how to develop
a fulfilling life, how todevelop a portfolio career, how
(01:04:28):
to attract people to you.
As compared to my first book,small Action, which is meant for
young professionals, how toplan their career and how to
take small action at thebeginning.
So now is how to use your moneyto give you happiness.
Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
Wow, I love that and I'm very much looking forward
for that.
Where can people follow yourwork, engage with you and learn
more about your upcomingprojects?
Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
Yeah, LinkedIn, that's my only source.
So, yeah, come over to LinkedIn.
Leave your comment, or you canwrite a review of my book or of
this podcast.
Then I will engage with yourpost.
Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
Fantastic, you heard it.
If you are not following Ericwhich you're very likely already
doing given he has so manyfollowers but if you're not
already following him, make sureto give him a follow on
LinkedIn.
Check out his book SmallActions Very, very interesting
and full of gold nuggets.
Eric, it's been an absolutepleasure to have you on the show
(01:05:37):
.
I'm very excited to be meetingyou in Chicago super soon, and
best of luck for that new book,if it comes out, and with your
personal branding expert journey.
Speaker 1 (01:05:52):
Thank you so much for having me See you soon in
Chicago.
Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
The Blonde Dollar is written, produced, hosted and
edited by me, ignacio Ramirez.
Everything you hear concept,script, sound design and
production comes straight frommy desk and, occasionally, my
kitchen table.
Thank you so much for listeningand join me in the next episode
of the Blunt Dollar for moreraw, honest finance
conversations.
I've seen so many people.
They just write and they don'tbother to engage A lot of people
.
They tend to think but what'sin your head right?
Sometimes it's not clear.
Writing gives you clarity.
So the burger is your corespecialization, the fries is
your secondary specializationand the coke is your interest.
You don't need a large audience, but you do need engagement.
(00:21):
For many of my readers and Isay hey, you read it once, why
do you want to read again?
Six months later, even theyread the same chapters, their
findings is different becausethey have changed.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Eric Sim is here with us today, a person that went
from working at a hawker stallin Singapore to becoming a
managing director at UBSInvestment Bank.
Literally, on LinkedIn, he hasclose to 3 million followers,
and some of your ideas are sodeep, so tell us about your book
.
It's for people who.
(01:18):
This is the Blonde Dollar withIgnacio Ramírez.
Ignacio Ramírez, your ownresearch and consult a qualified
advisor before making anyfinancial decisions.
All investments involve risk,including the potential loss of
capital.
And now let's get started withthe episode.
Welcome everyone to a newepisode of the Blunt Dollar.
Today, I'm joined by someone whohas redefined what it means to
(01:40):
succeed in finance.
Eric Sim is here with us today,a person that went from working
at a hawker stall in Singaporeto becoming a managing director
at UBS Investment Bank, but hedidn't stop there.
He built a personal brand thatnow reaches millions of people,
literally on LinkedIn.
(02:01):
He has close to 3 millionfollowers over there.
He became an author, a keynotespeaker and an educator, proving
that success in finance is nolonger about climbing just one
ladder.
It's about building your ownpath.
In this episode, we'll talkabout how he transitioned from
banking to personal branding,the power of a portfolio career,
(02:23):
and why small, deliberateactions can create a massive
career impact.
If you're in finance and youare wondering how to
future-proof your career, buildinfluence online or make a
bigger impact beyond the usualspreadsheets, this conversation
is for you, eric welcome to theshow.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Nacho, thanks for having me.
I'm very excited to be on yourpodcast.
I'm very, very excited too.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Obviously, today we're going to be talking a lot
about personal branding and yourjourney, but maybe, before we
get started, in a couple ofwords what is it that you're
doing today, exactly?
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Today I'm really a teacher, so I teach in the
universities.
I teach through my book SmallAction.
I teach through coachingindividual senior executive.
I also write on LinkedIn for mystudents and for young
professionals out there.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
So you're one of those people that I think does
the day also have the samenumber of hours for him than for
me, Because it looks likeyou're doing so much stuff.
I don't know how you manage tofit all of that at the same time
.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I eat the same thing every week, I go to the gym at
the same time and I wear a whiteshirt, blue suit every day.
White shirt, blue suit everyday.
So my life is very simple androutine, allowing me to think
about what to write on LinkedInwhat is going to be my next
speech about, and also helps mereflect about my life, because
(03:58):
many people ask me what did I doin my life such that I can
climb from helping my father inthe Singapore street food store
up to UBS Investment Bank MD.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
That's super interesting because I've read
that a lot of successful leaders, people with lots of
responsibilities, such as USpresidents and so on, either
they dress up the same way everyday or they have someone else
picking up the clothes for themso that they don't have to
allocate mental space for that.
I never tried it myself, butmaybe I should at some point.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
If you start trying, then you realize the power, Then
I think you will do more andmore of it.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
So I want to start the conversation talking about
personal branding in finance,because many finance
professionals focus solely onclimbing the corporate ladder,
but few consider the power ofpersonal branding, and clearly
you are an example here.
You successfully transitionedfrom being an MD at UBS to an
influential thought leader today.
(05:08):
What inspired you to startbuilding your personal brand
while still working in banking?
Speaker 1 (05:14):
I didn't start to think about personal branding.
I didn't know about personalbranding.
What I wanted to do is to sharemy thoughts, my failures, with
my students and I thought maybewriting a blog would be useful
and also I can help myselfreflect on my past life.
(05:35):
So I tried writing a blog.
I put it on Facebook.
Nobody read because my friendson Facebook they knew me when I
was young.
I was a loser.
Then I didn't do so well inschool.
I didn't do well in my firstfew jobs, so very few engagement
(05:57):
and writing on WordPress.
I don't even know whatWordPress is until today.
Then I tried on LinkedIn and itworked Somehow.
There are like 100 people whoread my first article.
I was very surprised becausewhatever I wrote in school only
(06:18):
got two views.
You know, one is my teacher,the other one is me, and neither
of us liked my article.
And now on LinkedIn, my firstpost I've got 10 likes and they
are random people, strangers.
Where did they come from?
So that inspired me to continueand I then stumbled upon oh,
there's this thing calledpersonal branding.
(06:39):
So I didn't start out to buildmy personal brand.
I really wanted to share careerskills with my students.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
So it was like a journey.
It was like very altruistic innature from what you're saying
and you really figured thingsout along the way, which is how
things happen a lot of times inlife.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Yeah, I out things out.
I was working in um, in banks,and also teaching in several
universities.
Uh, for about 20 years.
I was having two, two careerand more and more students asked
me, uh, beside banking, uh,about life skills, about career
(07:23):
skills.
So that's how I started.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
So many professionals across industries, but I'd say
for sure in the finance industrytoo hesitate when it comes to
promoting themselves becausethey fear being seen as arrogant
or not serious.
But you've shown that personalbranding can be done
authentically and strategically.
(07:48):
It can serve both purposes.
So, in your view, how canfinance professionals overcome
the fear of self-promotion andstart building their brand with
confidence?
Speaker 1 (08:02):
You want to build your brand doesn't mean that you
need to show your achievement.
You don't have to put a lot ofselfies.
So in fact, I hardly put selfieon my post.
A lot of times I put photosthat I'm in a group discussion,
student talking to me right, meand somebody else doing a walk
(08:24):
and talk, not me taking my phone.
And you know, shooting a photoof myself I.
I don't like that.
And number two uh, you can stillwrite a lot by interviewing
people.
So I interviewed my tailor, theshoe polisher in London.
I just interviewed the generalmanager of Grand Hyatt, hong
(08:48):
Kong, asking him how he retainsstaff.
Many of his staff worked therefor 20, 30 years and if you talk
about somebody, their trade isalso part of you.
If you say somebody is creative, you must be creative,
otherwise you cannot tell thatthe person is creative.
(09:09):
If you say that this person isa professional, you also have
some professionalism in youbefore you can say that.
So it's not necessarilyself-promotion, it can be
sharing other people's story oryour own failures.
So I failed many times.
(09:31):
I failed interviews, Istruggled when I was young and I
shared those.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
You also got rejected from a PhD program, right.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Yes, I was rejected by Princeton PhD program.
I wanted to be a teacher, so Ithought if I want to teach in a
university I must get a PhD.
So I applied and of course theysaid, unfortunately we cannot
admit you, but we'll put you ona waiting list.
(10:03):
Today I'm still waiting.
After this I'm going to go downto the letterbox.
Hopefully they send me a letterthat they accept me.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Well, I mean, you clearly showed that there's many
different ways to do things,and today you're teaching.
You don't have your PhD, butyou're doing things your own way
.
And if that rejection helped tolight a fire in you, uh, to
keep pushing forward, then so beit.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
you know it was maybe , yeah, so sometimes, when you
get rejected, it's not the endof things.
Um, so I use my investmentbanking experience, my md title,
to teach in hong konguniversity of science and
technology, and the school gaveme an adjunct associate
professor title.
So I got to be a professorwithout a PhD and I still make
(10:52):
my money in banking.
The only thing is that I needto wait for 16 years before I
buy professorship.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Well, vahir, you are well done.
Congrats to you.
That's all fantastic, Sorry.
So there are countless ways tobuild a brand.
There's content creation,there's networking, there's
speaking engagements, you nameit but not everything delivers
the same ROI.
For busy finance professionals,the challenge clearly is
(11:20):
knowing where to focus theirvery limited time.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
So if someone in finance wants to build a
personal brand but only has,let's say, 20% of time to invest
where, should they start, soyou can comment on posts, posts
written by people who inspireyou, posts on topics that you
(11:46):
want to build your thoughtleadership in.
So that's one.
Number two is you can have alot of ideas by reflecting in
your own life the time youchange job, you change country
what happened?
There must be some challenges.
So that is one area that youcan write about, and the easiest
(12:08):
thing is to write aboutpersonal stories with
professional application, yourpersonal stories.
So no right and wrong.
Professional application.
It means that your posts, yourcontent, must have use for your
readers, not just talking aboutyou attended this conference,
(12:32):
you gained so much, but what isit in for the leaders?
I don't suggest people talkabout their achievement to say
that, oh, I'm a speaker here, Igot this award, I'm on the cover
of this magazine.
Those are of no use to otherpeople.
Don't do that.
Make sure that you havesomebody in mind.
(12:55):
Is it a young financeprofessional that you want to
help?
Is it somebody in assetmanagement that you want to give
advice to?
What kind of advice do you wantto give?
Is it somebody in assetmanagement that you want to give
advice to?
What kind of advice do you wantto give?
Is it career advice or is itknowledge in that particular
asset class?
Speaker 2 (13:14):
So can you give us an example I love what you said of
personal stories withprofessional applications.
Do you have an example for ourlisteners of what that would
look like in practice?
Speaker 1 (13:26):
I have a post.
The title is Worst Investmentin my Life.
I invested in two properties inMalaysia Johor Bahru about 10
years ago, so that's when theeconomy was doing well, and I
thought this is the nextShenzhen, because I was working
(13:47):
in Hong Kong.
Shenzhen, property prices goneup and a lot of hype, so I
bought two properties thinkingthat I can make a lot of money.
No, the transportation, theconnection between Singapore and
Malaysia, did not materialize.
They're supposed to build akind of metro between the two
(14:10):
countries.
So that fell off.
Political instability, so theproperty prices dropped.
Foreign exchange I made a hugeloss because the Malaysian
ringgit weakens a lot.
So I post that.
And it resonated with people.
So that's my personal story.
(14:32):
What is the professionalapplication?
Number one do your duediligence, don't follow the
crowd.
Number two don't beoverconfident, because your past
investment success may notimply your future investment
success, which is what happenedto me.
(14:53):
And number three considerpolitical risk as well and
foreign exchange risk.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
That's pretty good.
No-transcript traction that'sreally cool.
(15:32):
Um, by the way, like you'remostly focused on linkedin right
like you're, you're not thatactive on other platforms other
platform, I hardly post anything, okay.
So a lot of people assume thatpersonal branding requires
having tens of thousands offollowers if you're active on
(15:56):
social media.
But you've demonstrated, andfrom what you're telling me,
that helping others and havingan impact on someone matters
more than just audience size.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
What advice?
Speaker 2 (16:12):
yeah, my question is what advice would you give to
finance professionals that wantto build a strong personal brand
but don't have a large audienceyet?
Speaker 1 (16:21):
You don't need a large audience, but you do need
engagement.
You don't need a large audience, but you do need engagement.
So write your post with aquestion, with a call to action,
and when somebody commentsactively, engage them, reply,
(16:42):
can ask them some question, andyou can also engage them offline
.
So I decide writing on LinkedIn.
I host networking events everyquarter in different cities, so
sometimes I go to Hong Kong or Igo to London.
Then I will gather my followers.
You don't need a lot, right 10followers to come for the
(17:02):
networking event and thesepeople will give you ideas, what
they like, so you can writemore of that.
And if they have met you, theyare more likely to engage with
your future posts.
And once you have seen them,you talk to them.
You know what they need so youcan write better and that is how
you build your community.
(17:24):
So I've got three Cs for thosepeople who want to build their
brand, especially financeprofessionals.
Number one is content, which wetalk about, personal stories
with professional application.
Number two is community.
I've seen so many people theyjust write and they don't bother
to engage.
That's wrong.
Engage with your followers,with your connection online and
(17:49):
offline.
And number three is consistency.
If you want to write once aweek, it's fine.
Just make sure you write once aweek.
I put it on my calendar Tuesdaymorning 7.45.
I'll post.
I've seen people who write oncea month.
That's also good.
But there are also a lot offinance professionals who write
(18:11):
as and when they have timebecause this doesn't make you
money, it's not top priority andyou know, in our banking job a
lot of time you're under revenuepressure, families might have
emergencies, so writing onLinkedIn, building your brand,
becomes low priority andsometimes you don't post for
(18:33):
three to four months and then,when you're free, you post every
other day.
That inconsistency will not bevery helpful, because people can
see that you are not there allthe time.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
I love those three Cs Really really nice Community,
content and consistency.
I'll write that in a post-itand put it on my computer screen
.
But you said something thatreally resonated with me, which
is the power of real-lifeconnections.
For sure, I'm 100% agreeingwith you.
The best way to grow and builda personal brand is exchanging
(19:13):
with others.
So really, if you want to growon no matter which platform it
is, just spend more timecommenting and chatting with
people than creating content, atleast at the beginning.
I mean, it's called socialmedia for a reason.
It has to be social.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Yeah, and for me, building connection is not just
doing it as and when convenient.
I'm going to the US, so I'mgoing to meet one of my LinkedIn
connection.
I've never met him before, butwe have collaborated.
His name is Chris Mathieu,living in LA.
So I'm going to meet one of myLinkedIn connection.
I've never met him before, butwe have collaborated.
His name is Chris Mathieu,living in LA.
So I'm going to Brazil for atalk, so I'll make my way up to
(19:52):
Los Angeles, meet up with himbefore I go to Chicago and I'll
meet you in Chicago.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Yeah, I was going to say so.
We are meeting in person inChicago at the CFA Life Summit.
I'm so excited about that.
There's going to be over athousand finance professionals.
There's going to be a bunch ofpanels.
You are going to be deliveringa keynote speech there that I'm
very excited about, aboutpersonal branding.
So if you work in the financeindustry, make sure to come.
(20:21):
It's the place to be from the4th till the 7th of May and it's
just a great opportunity to dowhat you're just saying, like
creating meaningful real lifeconnection and talking to other
people.
I'm super excited about this,honestly.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Yes, and I'm also planning to go to Panama to meet
one of my connection.
So that's what I do I go aroundand see.
So when I travel, it's not tovisit the places of interest but
to meet people.
I was in Paris last summer.
My top priority is to meetsomebody who got my book and he
(20:58):
wanted me to sign.
So that is more important thanseeing the Eiffel Tower.
But of course he was also veryconsiderate.
I did his book signing belowEiffel Tower.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Killing two birds in one shot.
Yeah, that's really cool, bythe way.
So tell us about your book.
What is the name of your bookand what is it about?
Hey there, quick favor to askIf you enjoy the blunt dollar,
the unfiltered takes, thestories and the laughs.
The easiest way to support theshow is by tapping that
subscribe button right now whileyou're listening.
(21:34):
And here's my promise If you do, I'll keep bringing you honest
conversations, freshperspectives and the kind of
finance talk that's engaging,insightful and worth your time.
Thanks so much for being hereand let's keep these great
finance conversations going.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
My book is called Small Actions Leading your
Career to Big Success.
It's for people who feel stuck,for people who don't have much
confidence, like me when I wasyoung, and it's difficult to
take big action.
It's difficult to to move.
Sometimes you got handicap.
(22:14):
Okay, if I want to move up, Ineed to spend $200,000 on an MBA
.
That is a big move, right, butI say that you not necessarily
must do that.
You can take some small action,like reaching out to people
knowing a restaurant so wellthat the moment you walk in, the
(22:34):
manager calls out your name.
If you can do that, you will beable to entertain and going the
extra mile for your clients, ifyou have clients.
Sometimes my client call me ona weekend and they say, hey, can
you pass me this information?
I'll do it for that.
So things like all these littlethings helps you form your
brand, build your trust.
(22:55):
Be five minutes early for everymeeting.
Then you gain trust and alwaysdeliver a little bit more than
what you promised.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Ah, that's good, but yeah, I like the part about
small actions, because we tendto focus on the big fat
objective.
But I had this sentence thatcame to my mind where you were
talking, which is paralysis byanalysis.
So when you just focus on thebig thing, big fat objective,
you don't know where to start,whilst if you break it down in
(23:25):
small things and take some smallsteps, it seems a lot more
feasible, and one small stepadds to another small step and
you end up going a long way.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Yeah so my book has got 66 chapters and I wrote, uh,
two chapters a week.
Each chapter is four pages, sowriting like one page a day on
average.
At the end of nine months I gota book.
If you want to build yourlinkedin, write one article to
(23:56):
two articles a week.
By the end of three, four yearsyou will have 200 articles to
300 articles.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Yeah, that's not a small feat three, four years but
definitely if you just writeevery now and then, it's
definitely feasible.
So you're talking about books.
Obviously, to write a book youneed to be very good at
storytelling, and I think you'vemastered that craft.
(24:25):
Facts and figures may drive thefinance industry, but stories
really is what drives engagement, and even like market
narratives, I'd argue, why isstorytelling such a powerful
tool for personal branding andespecially, why is it so
important in finance?
You realize that humans.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
They are attracted to stories, and stories are being
passed down.
Facts people tend to forget.
I can throw you some numbersright, I can throw you the GDP
or the names of some cities,after a while you forget.
But if I tell you a story of me, say, helping my father at the
(25:04):
hawker store, I was washingbowls, I was cutting my hand
After cutting chili, I rubbed myeyes, then my eyes got burned
and I cut my hand so I wasbleeding and so it's blood and
sweat.
That type of business, you, you, then you feel for it because
you can visualize.
(25:24):
So stories uh helps to engagethe heart of people.
Yeah, they remember you, theyremember uh story better.
That's why story is much morepowerful and in my book, 66
(25:45):
chapters, so there's one storyin each chapter and followed by
professional application.
So in fact, my chinese book, myChinese publisher, changed the
title from Small Actions to Tellyour Story.
Well, that is the name of thebook I've got the.
Chinese version down here.
(26:06):
In Chinese it's called JiangHao.
Ni De Gu Shi means Tell yourStory Well.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Did your book work better in China or in the rest
of the world, or is it equal?
Speaker 1 (26:19):
I think it's about the same.
China is a big market, um, sochinese as a single country.
The chinese version is uh, thedid the best, but english,
because I've got Singapore, hongKong, uk, us and plus India as
well.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
So that few markets combined is about the same as
China market Very well, so onelast question about personal
brand before moving to the nextblog.
What is the biggest mistakethat you see professionals, and
namely finance professionalsmaking when trying to build a
(26:58):
personal brand?
What is the number one thingthat you keep seeing over and
over again and you're like not agood decision.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Number one is there are a few.
One is sometimes they sharevery technical topic because
finance can be quite technicaland they didn't want to write
their own opinion.
They just share maybe somearticle by a bank or by a
newspaper.
So by sharing you don't buildyour personal brand, you are
(27:30):
just a distributor.
So that is one number.
Two may not happen in finance,but I've seen some people who
overdo it.
They, they show themselves toomuch.
It's always.
I'm proud to achieve this.
I am excited to be speaking atthis event.
(27:50):
You know always that and peopleget sick of it after a while
and they stop listening to whatyou say.
So these two are the morecommon mistakes.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
So being overly technical on being too and
humble brags, let's put it thatway, yeah, so now I want to talk
about careers, because intraditional finance,
professionals are oftenencouraged to focus on one path
(28:23):
and specialize, like you know,become an investment banker and
stay there and go very deep, oran asset manager and so on.
But you advocate for the ideaof what you call a portfolio
career, which is whereindividuals develop multiple
income streams and skillsinstead of just relying on one.
(28:47):
But in your own words, can youexplain us, give us a bit more
color on what is a portfoliocareer and why do you believe
this is the future of work?
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Yeah, most people are multi-talented, just that you
don't realize.
In finance, you think that allyou can do is finance.
No, maybe you can write, youcan sing, you can do sports
there's so many other thingsJust that in finance, you tend
to get paid a lot more usingyour financial skills than
(29:19):
writing.
That's right, but we must alsoremember that our happiness
comes from being able to use ourskills to contribute or to do
something that we are passionateabout.
Yeah, so it's not always aboutmoney.
So a portfolio career is youhave one career that gives you
(29:42):
money say banking, finance Thenyou have another career that
gives you fulfillment, anotherone that gives you meaning,
another one that gives yourelationship.
So when you have relationship,meaning fulfillment and some
money, then your life is morecomplete.
Your life is going to bemiserable if you got no
(30:03):
relationship, if you're notdoing things that you are
passionate about.
So portfolio career is toenrich your life, but not
necessarily monetary wise.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
That's very interesting.
It made me think about what'sthis Japanese concept that is
very trendy at the moment ikigai?
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Ikigai, ikigai, the reason to wake up.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
It's more or less similar to what you were saying,
like finding the balancebetween what you're good at,
what you're passionate about,what you're passionate about
what you.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Yeah.
So Ikigai is like they have gota few criteria, so you need to
find somewhere that intersectswhat you're good at, what can
you get paid for and how you canmake use of your skills.
But that is.
Ikigai is like finding onething that you are passionate
(30:59):
about and then you still can getpaid for.
What I'm talking about is youcan do things that you don't
like but you get paid for.
That's okay.
You satisfy the money part.
You can do something that youlike but you don't get paid a
lot, for example, teaching inthe universities.
You get fulfillment, that'sokay.
(31:22):
Another thing is you're doingvolunteer work, but you get
relationship.
You have a chance to be onstage.
Maybe you hit up a charityorganization or you join a
non-profit as a volunteer.
That gives you exposure topeople that you like to work
(31:42):
with.
That's okay.
And you combine all these threeall these three then you have a
very enriched life yeah, that'ssuper interesting.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
I mean many, many things coming to my mind.
First of all, I guess you knowlike doing this is also
something that people that arelike in the middle part of their
career or later stage of theircareer are more prone to relate
to.
Because I speak for myself whenI started working as a fixed
(32:16):
income advisor 13 years ago, thefirst thing I was thinking
about was just becoming the bestfixed income advisor out there.
I wanted to get my technicalsright.
I did my CFA and I wanted to beperceived as an expert in the
field, and that, for years, wasthe key priority in every single
(32:40):
way.
And as the years evolved, Irealized that, on top of that
which I'm very passionate aboutso financial markets and the
fixed income asset class itselfI also realized that in order to
find fulfillment, I needed alsolike to to connect with people.
I've always been veryextroverted, so I started
talking more to my colleagues,having more launches inside and
(33:03):
outside of work and justexchanging with others, and I
found that very rewarding.
And lately, I would argue inthe last couple of years, uh,
for me it's been a lot aboutcreating and I discovered I have
a very creative side.
Um, that I, I I was maybe notalways able to express in a
spreadsheet sometimes you can,but sometimes you can't and, uh,
(33:27):
and, and and that I discoveredthanks to yeah, to social media,
linkedin, namely, and aninitiative such as this one you
know where I'm talking in apodcast with interesting people.
But all of that came with thetime right, like I wouldn't have
been able to do that from dayone.
It's just been a journey, and Ithink you have to follow your
(33:47):
God and it will be different foreach of us.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
My suggestion is to incorporate your interest into
your work.
If you like public speaking,conduct a training for other
departments so you can practiceyour public speaking.
Crack a joke.
If you like design, make sureyou do the best PowerPoint with
beautiful fonts and animation,so that's how you can develop
(34:14):
design skills.
If you like photography, be acameraman for clients, event
volunteer, take videos, edit andsend it to your clients, send
it to your colleagues, so inthis way you will be able to
develop them and see whether youcan get good at them.
People tend to like what theyare good at.
(34:37):
Yeah, at the beginning, if youare not good in many things, you
just need to keep trying.
I didn't know I liked writing.
In fact, I failed my Englishwhen I was in school.
I didn't know.
I liked design.
I'm an engineer by training.
Design in terms of color, interms of fonts, that was the
furthest away from my mind.
As I'm an engineer by training,you know.
(34:57):
Design in terms of color, interms of fonts, that was the
furthest away from my mind as anengineer.
As long as it works, thecheapest method, it doesn't
matter if it looks ugly, makesure that it works.
But now I realize that, hey,after trying, I do like design,
I do like the creative side ofthings.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
like you, I do like design, I do like the creative
side of things, like you, yeah,and all those skills or
interests that I've incorporatedinto my.
(35:38):
Summarizing everything you justsaid is the concept of being
intentional with your time andyour career, because a lot of
times we have this tendency towait for things to happen on
their own, or naturally, butmost of the time they won't.
Or naturally, but most of thetime they won't.
So, coming back to yourexamples, if you like design, be
(35:58):
intentional about it and say,hey, I work in finance.
Well, I'm going to, for thenext six months, make the best
presentations, powerpoints outthere and really take your own
destiny in your own hands andand let that uh side of you uh
come out on a, on a veryproactive and an intentional
(36:20):
basis, and, and, yeah, and, and,and.
After a few months, I'm surethat you will be in a much
better place than where you aretoday.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
yes, so at around uh 2001 I.
I just bought my mac, um theimac, I like it so much.
I said how can I use my Mac andhow can I combine my finance
skills?
I programmed Black Show'soption pricing model onto my Mac
using one of the computerprogramming language that Mac
(36:51):
recognize.
That's what I like to do.
I took a day off my annualleave to do that.
That's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
I love it.
You often talk about theconcept of being a combo
specialist, someone who combinesexpertise in two or more fields
to create unique careeropportunities.
In your case, obviously, youblended finance, education,
storytelling to build your brandand career beyond banking.
But tell us what is exactly acombo specialist and why is it
more powerful than being asingle discipline expert?
(37:26):
You know?
Speaker 1 (37:27):
when you go to McDonald's you are often being
presented with the combo meal.
So the burger is your corespecialization, the fries is
your secondary specializationand the Coke is your interest.
So we should always think ofourselves as having the core
(37:48):
specialization, the secondaryspecialization and our interest,
and that's how we can describeourselves.
When I first started out out,my burger was engineering, my
fries was finance and my coatwas mac anything about mac,
computer, about design.
So that that's how I combinethem.
(38:10):
And after a few years I combinecombined finance and
engineering.
So I did financial engineeringat Citi.
I asked my boss to give me somesales responsibility.
So selling become my fries, andmy code at that time was
Chinese business culture,because China was a big market.
(38:33):
And then I later on asked myboss to move me from city
Singapore to city Shanghai sothat I can learn even more about
the market.
And finally I got sellingskills.
I got expertise in the bigmarket and I got financial
engineering.
I got banking experience.
I did investment banking, soinvestment banking became my
(38:58):
burger.
What's my fries?
My fries is teaching, teaching,internally teaching in the
university, and my coke waswriting on linkedin.
So that's my new combo.
And then today I'm no longer inbanking, but what I've done in
the past now become useful, soI've got a few burgers now.
(39:21):
Uh, maybe the core one is, uh,being an author.
How did I become an author?
Because I was writing onlinkedin.
My price is teaching, teaching,speaking.
How did I do that?
Because I was giving internaltraining when I was in banking.
I was teaching colleagues fromother departments and today my
(39:47):
quote is video editing, continueto do design, continue to
engage with people and, ofcourse, relationship.
Very cool, wow, that's veryinspiring.
Combo Specialist makes youunique.
You are not just an engineer,but you can be an engineer who
knows design.
You are not just a banker.
You are a banker who has theheart to teach.
(40:07):
You are not just an author.
You are an author who can speakon stage.
So that's how you can describeyourself.
And Combo is not stagnant Everyfew years.
So that's how you can describeyourself.
And combo is not stagnant Everyfew years.
It moves, so you can upgradeyour fries.
You can change your Coke to anice cream, so it changes every
(40:29):
three to four years.
It will make you more adaptable.
And what's one thing, oneadvantage of this combo
specialist over aone-dimensional specialist is
when there's disruption in theindustry.
You can use your other skillset.
You can use your cope to buildrelationship and get a job.
(40:51):
Maybe your hardcore skills isno longer valid.
Imagine that your hard skillsis being replaced by AI, but you
still have selling skills.
You have people's relationship,you are an interesting person
to talk to.
Then somebody who knows youfrom before may take a bet on
you, hire you and you then havea chance to acquire and develop
(41:15):
your new hard skills.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
I love how you said that the combo doesn't stay
static over time, but everythree, four years it evolves and
you get a new burger, new fries, new sides.
That's pretty cool.
And how can financeprofessionals identify what
their burger is, what their fryis?
(41:39):
Is it what you're passionateabout?
Is it what you're good at?
Hey there, quick ad break.
Do you work in the financeindustry and have a genuinely
interesting story to share?
I'm always on the hunt forgreat guests who bring raw,
unfiltered insights to the table.
Or maybe you know someone witha story worth telling?
Please put us in touch.
(42:00):
You can reach out to medirectly via LinkedIn.
I'd love to hear from you.
And now back to the show.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
Burger is very clear what you are doing.
Say, for example, you are aportfolio manager.
That is your burger, right.
What is your fries?
Do you have a secondary?
Are you a fund manager whoneeds to also sell, or you are
more on the fundraising side?
Do you need selling skills?
(42:32):
So portfolio management isasset allocation.
Identifying the stock Sellingskill is also important.
How do you sell to investors?
How do you sell to your boss?
Then your code as a financeprofessional can be completely
different from finance.
You like to play foot?
You are a movie critic or youare a foodie that you can, and
(42:56):
how do you combine them?
If you are a foodie, that youcan, and how do you combine them
?
If you are foodie, bring yourclients to the best restaurant
that you know.
Make sure that the chef cancook a special dish for you and
your client.
If you like marathon, can youorganize a 5k run for your
company, for your clients,before you train them for the
(43:19):
marathon.
So so many things that you cancombine and do.
If you like to sing, you knowjoin the talent competition
within your bank.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Yeah, basically, follow your passion and the rest
will take care of it.
Really, so many professionals,particularly in the finance
industry, spend decades workingin the industry 10, 20, 30 years
, climbing corporate ladders andso on and at some point they
fill up its stock.
(43:52):
But you showed that you cansuccessfully pivot from banking
to an entirely new career.
So what advice would you havefor finance professionals who
want to make a pivot after yearsin the industry?
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Number one talk to young people, build relationship
with young people, becauseyoung people can give you new
ideas.
What do they need?
If you give them advice today,10, 20 years later they'll be
the MDs in the finance industry.
They can support you right?
So that's one.
Number two is set aside sometime, say in the evening.
(44:27):
Think about what you werepassionate about when you were
young.
Can you revisit them?
Get to know people from otherindustry.
You can use LinkedIn to reachout.
When you talk to new people,you will get new ideas A lot of
time right?
We tend to talk to people inperson because people say that
(44:48):
meeting in person is best, it'sbetter than meeting people
online.
But when you meet somebody inperson, if you try to know
somebody, you are in the samecity, same country.
You, chanjaza, you are in thesame industry, so the new people
that you meet in person isunlikely to be so different from
(45:08):
you and Chanjaza same age group.
But once you go online, right,I'm meeting somebody from
Burkina Faso.
Somebody say I bought your book.
I say you're from Burkina Faso.
Where is that?
I don't think my book isavailable in this place.
So, oh, this is a country inAfrica.
How do you get my book.
I got a friend who is in Paris.
(45:29):
I asked him to buy the book andbring it back.
You know I will never meetsomebody who is from Burkina
Faso in Singapore in the financeconference no chance.
But online is possible.
Possible to meet a chef,possible to meet super young
people, people who are 20 yearsyounger than me.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
And talking about relationships, a lot of people
focus on impressing peers, but Ifind one of the hardest things
is probably managing andbuilding relations Also with
like senior leaders, like a boss, an MD, high profile type of
(46:12):
people.
What's your advice for buildingstrong relationships with
senior executives in finance?
Speaker 1 (46:21):
Many people use work to build relationship with
senior and that is wrong,because if you are portfolio
manager, you want to talk to thebig boss on portfolio
management.
If you are skipping yourimmediate boss to talk to the
big boss, your immediate bossmay feel insecure right, and the
(46:44):
big bosses already talk aboutfinance with so many people
under him every day.
However, you can talk aboutinterest, so find out the
interest of all these big bosses.
If you have some similarinterest, you can use that.
If you talk about marathon,even with the ceo two, three
(47:06):
levels above you, it's okay,your immediate boss not going to
feel insecure because you'retalking about marathon football.
Talk about art, design or thelatest book you read.
So you use that topic andsometimes, when there are
foreign guests, foreign seniorleaders coming to be coming to
your city to visit the office,offer to take them out to the
(47:30):
restaurant that you know it canbe the street food can be the
fine dining restaurant.
So it's very important that youknow your food well and your
restaurant well.
Then you can entertain thesenior leaders.
So move away from work topicbut talk about interests and
hobbies, because everyone hasinterests and everyone likes
(47:53):
eating.
So that's a good combo.
And then, once the relationshipis built, naturally the big
bosses will ask hey, you've beenin this job for two, three
years.
What are you thinking next?
The big boss can move youacross department or move you to
another country, but their bosswill do that only if the
(48:17):
relationship with you is strongand personal.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
So the industry, like the financial industry, has
this notorious reputation forbeing high pressure, filled with
strong personalities, sometimesdifficult personalities either,
like a very demanding boss, avery demanding client.
There's things like toughnegotiations going on, there's
(48:40):
conflicts and so on, so it's notthe easiest of the industries.
I would say what's yourapproach for handling difficult
people in high stakes financeenvironments?
Speaker 1 (48:52):
So number one you need to know their stage of life
.
Are they single, married withkids?
People who are single, chancesare they will be interested in
looking for a partner.
So if you can organizenetworking event and invite them
, they are more likely to lowertheir guard.
(49:13):
If they just got married, thenthey can focus a lot on work.
If they got kids, they'll bevery happy if you can take over
some of their work, the mundanestuff, the mundane task so that
they can go home earlier to seetheir young kids.
So understanding somebody'sstage of life is key.
(49:35):
Number two understand theirinterests.
Usually even the most difficultperson has a soft spot.
You know they still will likecertain things, so you need to
figure out what that is.
Number two is you don't have togo to them directly.
You can go to the person who'sclose to them and kind of use a
(49:57):
middleman.
So check around.
Who are the people close tothis difficult person that you
want to build the relationshipwith?
To you this person is difficult, but to the other people maybe
he's just being like that, butinside he's really nice, he's
very caring.
So you can get more informationfrom other people and, of
(50:22):
course, if sometimes thechemistry doesn't work for you,
no matter how hard you try.
Then I suggest is to buildrelationship with various
department, build relationshipwith the seniors, with the head
of departments, and do aninternal transfer of good tips
(50:42):
over there.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
I want to go back now to the main topic of your book.
I mean, we've touched upon it alittle bit, but this whole
concept of small actions incareer growth.
So first question why do youbelieve small actions are more
important than big moves when itcomes to career growth?
Sometimes a big career move isdangerous.
(51:05):
Why do you believe smallactions?
Speaker 1 (51:05):
are more important than big moves when it comes to
career growth.
Sometimes a big career move isdangerous or very risky, so
people do not want to take thatrisk.
Number two is a lot of time weare being.
We are stuck.
The work is already sostressful.
You got no capacity to take bigaction.
That's why taking small actionin the same direction right is
(51:26):
already so stressful.
You got no capacity to take bigaction.
That's why taking small actionin the same direction right.
Say, for example, one smallaction you can take is make it a
point to buy coffee and lunch.
So every week you set aside 100US dollars.
This is just for buying.
So look at who the people arePeople you think may have
(51:47):
potential to be promoted, peoplewho you like, people who are
inspiring or people who are veryquiet.
You think you can help themtake them out.
After a year you spend a fewthousand dollars and your
relationship will improve.
And with relationship comeopportunities.
Speaker 2 (52:08):
This is a very long-term strategy, but if you
do it in a not self-interestedway, but more because you
genuinely care about the people,I can see why that definitely
works over the long term.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
So for me, I joined a club it's called Cricket Club.
I don't play cricket, I use itto host lunch, and that's how I
build relationships Small littlethings.
Because when you do somethingtoo big for somebody, they think
that you're trying to bribethem and they feel very
suspicious what your agenda isSomething small, yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:50):
Needs to feel genuine and small.
I like the concept of small.
You've talked in the past aboutthese one-minute favors, which
is like small things, likeintroducing two people sharing
an article, writing a thank you.
Note how those things can leadto unexpected career
opportunities.
Can you give an example of,maybe, how a small little
(53:13):
gesture led to a careerbreakthrough for you?
Speaker 1 (53:17):
Yeah.
So just now I was saying thatyear 2001,.
I bought iMac.
I became the expert in my bankand many people also got
interested, and they know thatI'm crazy about it.
Many people come and ask meabout Mac, whether they should
(53:37):
buy a Mac, and my big boss, twolevels above me, said hey,
should I buy a Mac?
I said please go ahead and buyand I'll come and teach you.
I'll become your personal tutorand you can call me anytime.
He bought.
The very night Next day hecalled me hey, I bought my Mac.
What to do?
I said if you want, I can cometo your house to teach you how
(53:58):
to use it.
So he invited me to his houseit's a big house, introduced me
to his family.
I got on very well with thefamily.
I had dinner with the familyand him.
Two years later I said that,hey, china is opening up, can
you transfer me to China?
He said, yes, he make it happen.
Two years later I saw hey, Igot enough experience in China,
(54:24):
now I want to move to Hong Kongto be more international.
So I told him and he said hey,I got enough experience in China
, now I want to move to HongKong to be more international.
So I told him and he said, yes,we will create a position for
you.
You can go to Hong Kong.
All of this is from buildingthat relationship from the Mac
Wow.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
You have to send that thank you note to the Apple
headquarters.
They're responsible for yourcareer success.
So career success, obviously Imean it's just not about talent.
There's also something aboutbeing perceived as trustworthy
(55:05):
and as someone that people wantto work with.
So what's your advice forfinance professionals who want
to build a strong reputation assomeone people can trust?
Speaker 1 (55:16):
If you want to be trustworthy, arrive five minutes
early, be honest with the riskthat you tell the clients and
tell your colleagues.
Always be helpful, becausesometimes, right, certain things
are very easy for us and thendifficult for other people.
(55:38):
If we help them it doesn't takea lot of effort, then we should
do that.
Then you can build trust andalso be consistent, being being
consistent like what you wear,what you eat.
If you are very consistent,yeah, naturally people trust you
.
Speaker 2 (55:55):
People feel like they can read you, they can predict
you yeah, and be, I guess,yourself also appear authentic,
um, and not fake things.
You've also said in the pastthat writing is an underrated
career growth strategy.
I wasn't expecting to talkabout writing in career growth
(56:16):
tips, but why do you believewriting is one of the most
underrated career growth hacks?
Speaker 1 (56:29):
Writing gives you clarity.
A lot of people they tend tendto think but what's in your head
, right?
Sometimes it's not clear.
When you put it out in writing,it helps, you becomes clearer
with your ideas, and then whenyou say it out, it it's easier.
So, for example, just now Italked about the combo
specialist.
Because, I need to write.
So how can I write this idea?
(56:53):
I came up with the McDonald'scombo meal Without writing.
Then it's something in my headand when I describe it it's not
going to be so easily visualized.
And once I write it down andthen I have this analogy it is
(57:15):
now very easy for somebody totell another person, even when
I'm not around.
So that's the beauty of writing.
And also writing is morepermanent.
Once you write is there, youcan revisit it, your, you can
revisit your own writing.
You learn something.
And also for many of my readers, they read my books, um, like
(57:41):
every six months and I said, hey, you read it once.
Why do you want to read againsix months later?
Even they read the samechapters, their findings is
different because they havechanged, they have taken action.
So that's that's the beauty ofwriting is permanently there.
But it's also different for thesame people at different stage
(58:04):
of their life.
Speaker 2 (58:06):
Yeah, I think there's something magical about putting
words into a piece of paper oreven on your computer.
It helps you structure yourthoughts In my case, like I post
about finance on LinkedIn, asyou know, and writing a post on
a market topic helps me not onlyunderstand better the story,
(58:28):
but also structure the way Ithink about it and it stays in
my brain a lot longer afterwards.
Yes, even if it's stuff thatmay not be directly related to
what I do on my day-to-day maybemore like those peripheral
topics, but it's pretty coolwhat happens in your brain when
(58:49):
you write.
Speaker 1 (58:51):
And for the listener out there, if you can say write
once a week on LinkedIn notbecause of followers, just for
your own journaling, yeah, it'slike journaling you are forced
to write.
When you're forced to write,then you start thinking deeper,
you start digging and yourealize that some things are
(59:15):
there, but because you didn'tdig, you didn't write, it stays
hidden.
But the moment you are forcedto write, you dig, dig it out
and you realize that you havegot so many ideas and some of
your ideas are so deep, so makeuse of it yeah, it's like going
(59:35):
to the psychologist a lot oftimes.
Speaker 2 (59:37):
it's just about getting you uh started and you
start talking and things comeout and you realize, oh wow, I
didn't realize I had that in meor in my brain, but it's just
because you were not put in asetup where you were left the
space to actually take it out.
Speaker 1 (59:55):
And I think writing is the same, so for those people
who write as and when they feellike it, as and when they have
time, they will never dig deepenough.
As and when they have time,they will never dig deep enough.
So, if you want to have somekind of a self-actualization, if
(01:00:17):
you want to develop your ownpotential, even more force
yourself to write.
Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
So a lot of people start writing when they're
finding challenges or difficultto deal with a specific
situation, just to help themstructure their thoughts.
And I wanted to ask you exactlyabout that.
Can you maybe share a storyabout one of your setbacks
you're facing in your financecareer and how do you address it
and how did you recover from it?
Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
One case was I was accused by my client that I make
them lose money.
So they were a Chinese realestate company.
So this was before thefinancial crisis back in 08.
So 07, they issue a US dollarbond.
(01:01:10):
I say that, hey, your revenueand your currency is in renminbi
, so you should swap your USdollar bond, the liability, into
RMB, and it will help you loweryour cost from 9% to 5%.
So lowering interest from 9% to5% save you 4%.
They say, yeah, it's a goodidea.
So they did that.
But RMB keeps getting strongerand stronger, so there's a
(01:01:30):
mark-to-market loss on thederivative.
It's a 5-year cross-currencyswap when the mark-to-market is
at a loss.
Then they came to me to say hey, eric, you betrayed our trust.
So I explained hey, no,although RMB is stronger, so
your revenue, your asset arealso stronger, so this is a
hedge, it just cancels out.
(01:01:51):
But I was very devastated thatI was being accused that I kind
of scammed them.
Fortunately, the financialcrisis came.
The RMB weakens and they turnfrom a loss to a gain and I
(01:02:12):
asked them to hey, your gain isnow getting bigger and bigger.
Why don't you unwind the swapand take the money and run?
Because their business waslosing money and now I can give
them some half a million cashout of the swap by unwinding.
So they did that, wrote them acheck for half a million US.
Until today they are verygrateful to me and regularly
(01:02:37):
asking me hey, any more swap todo, like the last time we did
and we maintained goodrelationship.
So that was one of the lowestpoint in my career but very
fortunately the market situationhelped me and I managed to turn
it around.
One of the few people orstories.
Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
I ever heard about anyone being happy financial
crisis in that specificsituation.
Always they understand ithelped, but, yeah, what happened
afterwards was trulydevastating.
But interesting story that,yeah, how trying to fix currency
mismatches led you to a hardconversation that later on
(01:03:18):
turned around.
We've been talking close to anhour, so we're very close to the
end.
I mean, I had a millionquestions for you.
Unfortunately, I only had theopportunity to ask you a few,
but maybe tell us, I mean,what's next for you.
You've built an impressivecareer across finance, education
(01:03:40):
and now personal branding.
What's next?
Travel and now personalbranding.
Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
What's next?
Travel?
So this year I'll be travelingto Brazil either Panama or
Mexico City then visitingLinkedIn offices, hopefully in
places that I have never been.
So that's for me to widen myperspective, and my publisher
(01:04:07):
has been chasing me to write thesecond book, and I'm not sure
whether I have enough content.
I'm thinking maybe this timearound I write for meet to
senior career professionalsabout what we talk about what we
talk today how to live afulfilling life, how to develop
a fulfilling life, how todevelop a portfolio career, how
(01:04:28):
to attract people to you.
As compared to my first book,small Action, which is meant for
young professionals, how toplan their career and how to
take small action at thebeginning.
So now is how to use your moneyto give you happiness.
Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
Wow, I love that and I'm very much looking forward
for that.
Where can people follow yourwork, engage with you and learn
more about your upcomingprojects?
Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
Yeah, LinkedIn, that's my only source.
So, yeah, come over to LinkedIn.
Leave your comment, or you canwrite a review of my book or of
this podcast.
Then I will engage with yourpost.
Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
Fantastic, you heard it.
If you are not following Ericwhich you're very likely already
doing given he has so manyfollowers but if you're not
already following him, make sureto give him a follow on
LinkedIn.
Check out his book SmallActions Very, very interesting
and full of gold nuggets.
Eric, it's been an absolutepleasure to have you on the show
(01:05:37):
.
I'm very excited to be meetingyou in Chicago super soon, and
best of luck for that new book,if it comes out, and with your
personal branding expert journey.
Speaker 1 (01:05:52):
Thank you so much for having me See you soon in
Chicago.
Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
The Blonde Dollar is written, produced, hosted and
edited by me, ignacio Ramirez.
Everything you hear concept,script, sound design and
production comes straight frommy desk and, occasionally, my
kitchen table.
Thank you so much for listeningand join me in the next episode
of the Blunt Dollar for moreraw, honest finance
conversations.
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