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June 23, 2025 58 mins

In this episode of The Blunt Dollar, we sit down with Julia Carreon, a digital transformation powerhouse with leadership experience at Wells Fargo and Citi, to dissect the crossroads of finance, technology, and generational change. 

Julia brings her signature candor and deep industry knowledge to a conversation that spans everything from AI and gamification to social media misinformation and the trust crisis in banking.

We explore what it truly takes to modernize wealth management for Gen Z and millennials, and why the clock is ticking for traditional players.

🎯 Why big banks are struggling to keep up with Gen Z's expectations, and what’s at stake

🤖 How AI and gamification could reshape financial education and advisory experiences

📱 The role of influencers, TikTok, and social media in driving (and distorting) financial literacy

💥 Personal stories of fintech failure and how they shaped Julia's views on trust and regulation

🧠 The power of behavioral science and hyper-personalization to redefine client engagement

If you’re into AI in finance, the future of banking, and what it’ll take to win over the next generation of investors, this one's for you.

Oh, and if you haven't already... subscribe to The Blunt Dollar for more raw and honest finance conversations.

New episodes drop every other week! Available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your podcasts.

And last, but not least, don't forget to follow me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ignacio-ramirez-moreno-cfa/

Enjoy the episode!

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. It does not constitute financial, investment, or legal advice. Listeners should consult a qualified financial professional before making any financial decisions.

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Consumers are not educated.
They aren't very aware of whattheir options are.
They're running different techsthat aren't backed in the same
way that a big bank is, and itis problematic.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Welcome everyone to a new episode of the Blunt Dollar
.
I'm super excited to have onthe show today Julia Carreon.
Julia has been on the frontlines of financial disruption
for years.
She's held leadership roles atWells Fargo and Citi, where she
spent nearly two decades drivingdigital transformation.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
I believe the big banks are falling behind and
that they have not beeninnovating fast enough.
Part of that is integrationsbetween fintechs and big banks.
We are at an inflection point,and people really do need to
catch up in order to be relevantfor the next generation.
Why are we not moving faster?
I think it's an all problem,not just one single thing.

(00:54):
One of the dynamics that not alot of people talk about is the
fact that this is the BlondeDollar with Ignacio Ramírez

(01:20):
investment or legal advice.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
This content is for informational and educational
purposes only and should not berelied upon as a substitute for
professional advice.
Always do your own research andconsult a qualified advisor
before making any financialdecisions.
All investments involve risk,including the potential loss of
capital.
And now let's get started withthe episode.
Welcome everyone to a newepisode of the Blunt Dollar.

(01:42):
I'm super excited to have onthe show today Julia Carreon.
Julia has been on the frontlines of financial disruption
for years and has spent a careermodernizing how banks and
wealth management firms servethe next generation of investors
.
She's held leadership roles atsome of the biggest names in
finance, such as Wells Fargo andCiti, where she spent nearly

(02:05):
two decades driving digitaltransformation and helping these
institutions prepare for aworld where Gen Z and
millennials are calling theshots.
She's a go-to expert on howyounger generations think about
money, how they invest, how theysave and how they expect
financial institutions to keepup.
She's been deep in the trenchesof AI, fintech and digital

(02:28):
strategy, helping banks figureout how to stay relevant in an
era where big tech is creepinginto finance and robo-advisors
are changing the game.
So today.
Of course, we'll be getting intoall of that.
We'll answer questions such asare financial firms adapting
fast enough or are they about toget left behind?
How is AI changing wealthmanagement, and what happens

(02:51):
when companies like Apple decidethey want a piece of the
finance industry?
Julia has seen these shiftsfirsthand and she's got some
serious insights on what's next.
So let's get into it.
Julia, welcome to the BlondeDollar.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
Thanks for having me.
I'm delighted to be here.
You know, Ignacio, I love doingthese kinds of shows and I am
so honored that you had me on,so thank you.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
Thank you so much for coming in.
For those of you that don'tknow, julia is a regular speaker
.
She's done many podcasts andalso a very prolific LinkedIn
creator.
So if you haven't checked out,julia is a regular speaker,
she's done many podcasts andalso a very prolific LinkedIn
creator.
So if you haven't checked outher profile, please do.
But yeah, let's get thingsstarted.
Julia, tell us a bit aboutyourself.
You worked for 20 years atWells Fargo.
What did you do over thereexactly?

Speaker 1 (03:40):
Well, so I did a lot of different things, but most of
my time was spent as the chiefdigital officer for the private
bank of Wells Fargo, which was arole that I got after the
financial crisis, and WellsFargo absorbed Wachovia
Securities, which was one of thebig actually, it was the

(04:01):
biggest merger in US bankinghistory at that time.
So one of the things I like totalk about which we can get into
later is all the things Ilearned about doing one of the
biggest integrations in bankinghistory.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
That's fascinating.
We are definitely going to getinto that.
But I wanted to start talkingabout young people and Gen Z
before we get into that part ofthe conversation, because
obviously you cannot talk aboutdigital disruption in banks and
wealth management withoutthinking about who's coming next

(04:35):
, the next generation ofcustomers, and we've heard you
in the past say that Gen Z islike a meteor that wiped out the
dinosaurs, except that in thiscase, the dinosaurs are
traditional financialinstitutions, and we've seen
these young people grow up withsmartphones to their hands,

(04:55):
which means they think digitalfirst in everything they do.
So my question for you is doyou think financial institutions
are catching up fast enough tothis Gen Z revolution and their
consumption patterns, or arethey still living in a
prehistoric mindset?

Speaker 1 (05:13):
So I am really I want to answer this in an
interesting fashion for yourpodcast because I'm so excited
about your show but I have beenvery consistent that I believe
the big banks are falling behindand that they have not been
innovating fast enough, and I dothink that part of that is that

(05:36):
a lot of the integrationsbetween fintechs and big banks
have been failing and the bigbanks are sitting on such
convoluted and difficult thelegacy.
You know, the big boys andgirls are sitting on such legacy
tech stacks that are soconvoluted that they have not
been able to um, innovate fastenough, and I do really feel

(05:59):
like we are at an inflectionpoint and people really do need
to catch up in order to berelevant for the next generation
.
I really think it's potentiallyat a crisis mode.
I'll be honest.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
And why is it the case?
I mean you say you've beenconsistent in your messaging,
that you've been emphasizing theneed to move faster and to
catch up with all these startups.
What is the problem?
Faster and to catch up with allthese startups?
What is the problem?
Is top management in these bigfinancial institutions oblivious
to all these changes?
Are they aware of the need tomove forward?

(06:36):
But is it just that thestructures are not flexible
enough In your view?
Why are we not moving faster?

Speaker 1 (06:42):
So I think it's an all and problem, not just one
single thing.
One of the dynamics that not alot of people talk about is the
fact that the haptic memory soyour touch and sight, all of
your senses of Gen Z are, as yousaid, digital first, but baby

(07:07):
boomers are still largely incharge at big banks and there
has been a disconnect betweenbaby boomers really
understanding that this is areal problem and they are
controlling the purse strings atthese firms.
And they are controlling thepurse strings at these firms and
then, frankly, theircompensation structures are very

(07:27):
much incentivized to solveshort-term problems, and this
has been a long-term problemthat needed serious thought.
I don't know if you've heardthis, but one of my ideas after
the financial crisis was for allof the big banks to join a

(07:47):
consortium and band together toappeal to the next generation in
messaging, financial literacy,education, all of those things,
and do it in a branded way thatwas not anonymous but consistent
across all the banks, so thatthis next generation wouldn't

(08:09):
just be feeling like you werepushing product.
And I pitched that idea to thehead of marketing at Wells Fargo
at the time and I got turneddown and look, I think now you
see, in the marketplace,everything is fractured.
I think now, you see, in themarketplace, everything is
fractured and we have started tosee pockets of fraud by
fintechs.

(08:30):
You know, I should have pickedup the name of that big bay, of
that fintech that failed and nowthat all that money is lost,
those things are happeningbecause consumers are not
educated, they aren't very awareof what their options are.
They're running different techsthat aren't backed in the same
way that a big bank is, and itis problematic, and I have been

(08:53):
saying that for a long time, andI really think we're starting
to see the reckoning of thatwith these failures and then
again of the banks stillstruggling to catch up failures
and then again of the banksstill struggling to catch up.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
So if you had to give a forecast of what is going to
happen maybe 10, 15, 20 yearsdown the road with big financial
institutions, what would it be?
Are they going to lose marketshare to all these smaller
startups that are maybe smallerbut really trying to capture a
niche and a little part of thewhole value offering that wealth
managers have?
Or will they, under pressure,finally manage to put the

(09:33):
resources, hire the people, justto survive on time to the
demands from the new generation?

Speaker 1 (09:42):
Look, I think that my answer is that I hope that
banks get it together right,Because a regulated system that
protects consumers is extremelyimportant, and then perhaps
maybe loosening regulation onthe big US banks so that they
can innovate faster might have abeneficial effect on what goes

(10:05):
on in the United States, and weboth know right that what goes
on in the United States, thewhole rest of the world follows
right, Because we are the800-pound gorilla over here.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
Yeah, I mean definitely I like to think of
the US as the director of theorchestra and definitely they're
setting the tone for the restof the finance industry and on
top of that, of course, the SECbeing one of the orchestra.
And and definitely they'resetting the tone for the rest of
the finance industry and on topof that, of course, the sec
being one of the, if not themost important, financial
regulator out there will willalso set the tone for for
everyone else.
Uh, when it comes to any mattersrelated to the finance industry

(10:38):
.
Um, I love that concept ofhaptic memory.
By the way, I didn't know aboutthat before I was preparing for
this show.
So basically, it's like a fancyway of saying that we're shaped
by the way we grow up, touchingand interacting with things.
And obviously, for Gen Z,that's all about smartphones,
right, how they swipe the tab,the double clicks.

(10:59):
They do all of that faster thanthe baby boomers and, yeah, we
will need to adapt to that.
And talking about youngergenerations, once again, I think
a big topic is finance literacy.
You've said that while Gen Z ismore tech savvy than any other

(11:20):
generation and I think that'spretty undeniable their
financial literacy often hasn'tcaught up with their investing
enthusiasm, and it's likeheading.
A lot of people have beenheading headfirst into crypto
and meme stocks, but sometimeswithout even knowing what basic
concepts such as compoundinginterest works.

(11:41):
So it's like jumping into thedeep end of a pool without
learning how to swim first, andobviously social media has
magnified all of that and hasadded fuel to the fire.
So my question for you is howdo we bridge the gap between Gen
Z's appetite for investing andtheir understanding of financial

(12:02):
basics?

Speaker 1 (12:05):
and their understanding of financial
basics.
You know.
So this is a knife to my heart,right, because I predicted this
disconnect in 2008, which iswhy I said that all of the big
banks should be contributing tothis branded campaign that
lifted all ships and did thefinancial literacy that exactly
that you are talking about.

(12:26):
So, look, I actually think thatthere is a gap in the
marketplace for for somebody todo that, that education, in a
way that a resonates Right Likewhat kind of influencer or
whatever there, by the way,there is now an interesting

(12:48):
backlash against influencersthat's happening, so maybe
things will right size a littlebit more.
But you know the amount offinancial literacy that's been
getting off of TikTok, I, youknow it's, it's.
It's a problem because a lot ofthese people, a don't know what
they're talking aboutthemselves and, b they have a
hidden agenda, and, and.

(13:11):
So I do think that there is agap in the marketplace for that.
And I'll be honest with you.
I left my job at Citibank inAugust and I've been trying to
figure out what I'm going to donext.
And I've been trying to figureout what I'm going to do next,
and one of the things I talkedabout with a girlfriend is
should we figure out how tostand up a financial literacy

(13:32):
curriculum that then you thensell to the big banks and then
you try to do some kind ofconsumer model or B2B model?
You're going to have to cutthat Direct-to-consumer model or
something I don't know model.
You're going to have to cutthat direct to consumer model or
something it's going to, Idon't know.

(13:54):
I do not have a good answer forhow we resolve this issue, but
I agree with you that it is one,and it's sadly been one that
has been in the making for along time.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
I.
What I think it's a little bitunfair is that we tend to put
all the burden of this problemon banks.
But if you ask me, a lot of theproblem comes from the way our
educational system is set up.
I think we should be learningabout all of this stuff in
schools.
Actually, Kids are learningcalculus, but they're graduating

(14:29):
without understanding how tofile taxes, how to budget for
rent or how to invest for theirfuture.
So what needs to change tobring this financial literacy
into schools, and why do you?

Speaker 1 (14:45):
think it's taking so long to make this a reality, not
only in the States, but allaround the world.
So, look, I think, boy, we arereally going in a great
direction here, because I thinkthat the especially I'll speak
for the United States we havelost our way in terms of
teaching, to your point, kidspractical skills, and that
doesn't just include financialliteracy and the things that

(15:11):
you've talked about taxes andbasic investing skills.
We have lost our way.
We don't teach people how tocook, they don't know how to
feed themselves right.
When they grow up, they doordash everything.
I mean, there is a massivesocial consequences.
You don't learn woodshop, youdon't right?
Like there are serious societalconsequences for the fact that

(15:35):
we have lost our way in terms ofteaching practical skills, and
so I think we are like really atthe cusp of a cultural
reckoning, and it is going to befascinating to see how it plays
out.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
Could the secret be gamification?
We've seen platforms like RobinHood obviously nailing
gamification, but in a way thatwas more focused on fun than
financial education fun thanfinancial education.
So could we actually use thisgamification concept to teach

(16:10):
financial literacy instead ofencouraging risky behavior?
Do you think the answer will goin that direction?

Speaker 1 (16:15):
I do, and I know that .
You know that I've beenspeaking about the impact of
gamification and the importanceof it, and look, we can touch on
AI right now.
I think what we're seeing withDeepSeek and the ChatGBT latest
models and you know Grok I thinkwe will see an acceleration of

(16:40):
gamification with AI, sosomething that everybody's taken
much longer to accelerate interms of marketplace solutions.
I think we are right about tosee a mad acceleration of that,
and I think you're right.
I think gamification is goingto be really, really interesting

(17:03):
and we'll start to see it movefaster.
Do you agree?

Speaker 2 (17:11):
Well, I was going to ask why do you think AI will
turbocharge gamification?
Is it because it's going tohelp to hyper-personalize the
content?
Is that it?

Speaker 1 (17:24):
No, I mean, I actually think that the AI will
help build the tools faster,right, like gamified tools, will
I mean?
The capabilities of this nextgeneration of AI are going to
allow things to get done faster,things to get done faster and

(17:49):
and you're going to be able toteach them to do things that
before required a person, right?
So let me just think about itin my life.
I I my team brought the firsttablet app for advisors to the
street um back around 2014, andwe did a very basic discovery
tool that was gamified a littlecard game, but then the results

(18:10):
saved back to CRM.
Okay, AI could have built mydiscovery tool in like 10
minutes.
Do you know what I mean?
Where before it took me an MVPof nine months to do you know it
was actually 18 months.
So that's, that's really what Ithink.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
That's pretty cool, actually.
Can you, can you walk usthrough that story?
So 2014, first time a tool ofthis nature was launched?
How was it Like?
Who, I mean?
How did you have the idea?
How did you implement it?
It's like a decade ago and fromwhat you're saying, it seems
like it was a massive task.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
Today, we would totally do that in a few days,
but at the time, what did youhave to go through to launch it?

Speaker 2 (18:56):
And the lads, the easiest way to support the show
is by tapping that subscribebutton right now, while you're
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And here's my promise If you do, I'll keep bringing you honest
conversations, freshperspectives and the kind of
finance talk that's engaging,insightful and worth your time.
Thanks so much for being hereand let's keep these great

(19:16):
finance conversations going.

Speaker 1 (19:21):
So the output from my Our Tablet app, which was
trademarked as Mobile Advisor atWells Fargo.
The idea came to me in 2010 aspart of my future of advice
strategy, where I was seeingthat banks were taking too long
to, you know, accelerate thedigital agenda, and I got

(19:48):
funding.
I got $50,000 at the time to doa year-long research project
and out of that research projectwe came up with the idea of a
tablet app, and I can't rememberwhen the iPad came out, I think
in 2010.
So we were right at the cusp ofthat being new technology.

(20:09):
We had done, we were doing theresearch before the tablet app,
even the Microsoft app, appleiPad came out and then, and so
we were able to fast track ourrequirements because we had all
of this research that we haddone before it hit.
And so that's how we did it.

(20:31):
We did it with a lot ofresearch.
A lot of you know me and myteam pressing on executives for
the fact that the future wascoming.
And then, and we took a cardgame that the company had
already developed and wedigitized it.
I mean it really thank you forsaying it's really cool, because

(20:53):
it was really cool at the timeand we were way ahead of the
street when we did it andultimately that app got released
to 16,000 advisors.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
And what did the tool exactly do?

Speaker 1 (21:05):
Well, the first MB I moved on to, my focus was on
something else, but the firstgeneration of it was to allow an
advisor to go to a client'shouse, do basic discovery,
client discovery with them, dobasic things on their CRM, and
then they could dictate theclient meeting on their way home

(21:29):
.
If they, you know, had a placeto load their sit, their phone
up, they could dictate meetingnotes from that client meeting
and it would save back to ourCRM and the productivity on that
was huge, because so manyadvisors would go to client
meetings and then have to typethe notes by hand after they

(21:53):
went to their kid's soccer game.
So we were using voice, we wereusing gamification and we were
saving it all back to our uglyold tech stack in the back end a
decade ago.

Speaker 2 (22:09):
Oh, that's pretty cool.
It's funny because it soundspretty basic, right, but a lot
of times the best IT solutionsare those that solve those
little painful problems that alot of people can relate with,
rather than the massive, superinnovative, futuristic things
that we could only dream of.
And yeah, I can totallyunderstand why your project was

(22:34):
a success because, yeah, I workin wealth management.
We spend a lot of time typingthings manually and these kind
of things are always huge interms of productivity gains.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
Well, and then think about the compliance
implications, right?
So a lot of times the SEC wantsthose meetings documented, and
a lot of the time they're not,and so it isn't just a
productivity play, but it's alsoa compliance play.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yeah, 100% Gosh, love it.
Love those stories from financea few years ago because it
really shows From back in theold days.
Yeah, back in the old days.
I started working in 2012.
So it was more or less by thattime.
Oh my gosh, I'm so old.
I'm so old.
No, come on, you still have allyour career in front of you.

(23:23):
Um, so I want to go back to, to, to the education and and and
and social media platforms.
Um, we I mean, you brieflytouched upon influencers, which
is obviously a very importantsource of information for a lot
of Gen Zs and millennials, evena little bit less for baby

(23:46):
boomers.
I guess my question for you iswhat is the responsibility of
the social media platforms andinfluencers when it comes to
educating audiences aboutfinance?
Well, do you mean like, forexample, does Instagram and are

(24:36):
get-rich-quick schemes versuswhat is like useful stuff?
Yeah, I mean, who isresponsible for monitoring all
this information and ensuringthat you know what is being said
is truthful and not misleading?

Speaker 1 (24:47):
Oh gosh, friend man, that is a big, loaded question.
I love it.
Look, I think I'm going to havean answer, that's do not
believe that any of these sitesshould actually be censoring

(25:09):
speech.
And I'll tell you why.
Because anybody's definition ofit could be arbitrary, right?
Who is to say what is true andnot true?
And I think that we are seeinga reckoning of that, and it's

(25:30):
happening in the US.
I mean, instagram and Facebookhave gotten rid of their
moderators, right?
For the most part, they're factcheckers.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
Okay, so let me rephrase, because maybe the
truth and false part is notexactly where I wanted to go.
It's more about when it comesto specifically financial
content.
Yeah what is suitable contentfor a specific audience versus
what is leading content that maynot be suitable for a specific

(26:02):
audience that may not besuitable for a specific audience
.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
So here's what I think.
I think that is theresponsibility of regulators and
I believe that they areprobably behind.
So you see it all the time thatregulators are behind the times
, but I absolutely think thatthe SEC, occ and, to the extent
that the CFPB stays around inthe United States, it's the

(26:30):
responsibility of regulatorsbecause these bad actors are, to
your point, causing harm toconsumers and they are the ones
responsible for regulating harm.
You know what's policing,what's right and not right for
for consumers and and you knowwhat's a great question, I don't

(26:51):
know if they do differentanswer to yours.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
I agree with what you said but I think it shouldn't
solely be the responsibility ofregulators.
I think everyone has a part ofresponsibility.
So, yes, first of all, I thinkwe would need more guidance from

(27:20):
regulators across the globe,and I've talked about this in
previous episodes.
I collaborated with the CFAInstitute on a report about
influencers, and one of the mainrecommendations of the report
was that regulators across theglobe should sit down and set up
the rules so that everyone isclear of what we can do and not

(27:42):
do, and say and not say when itcomes to financial markets in
social media, because it's notclear at the moment.
But again, it's also theresponsibility of the content
creators to ensure that, as youwere saying at the beginning,
either there's no hidden agendaor, if there's a hidden agenda,

(28:02):
that they actually disclose it,so that people consuming the
content they produce are atleast aware if there's like some
sort of financial interestbehind what they're saying or
not, and then they can judge anddecide how to interpret the
information they're receiving.
So it's not easy and I thinkit's going to take many, many
years, but I guess the only wayto solve this problem is by

(28:25):
having everyone sitting aroundthe table, all the regulators
across the globe, setting therules clearly and then
widespreading the informationthrough the usual channels, and
then we'll have a healthiersocial media landscape.
When it comes to finance, Ithink I agree.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
I mean one of the things that's fascinating about
this that we could talk aboutand, by the way, I am spending
more time on Twitter and myaccount is unlocked.
I had a big account on Twitterback in the day and I had to
lock it when I went to work atCiti.
But now I don't work at Citi,so it's public.
And I was really fascinated bythe fact that David Sachs, who

(29:14):
is a entrepreneur and VC andsuper influential guy, was
talking about something thisweek.
He literally did not have abasic clue about how banks work,
like literally fundamentally,and I was shocked that a big
account from somebody that smartand he's in tech he's not in
finance lacked a basicunderstanding and he went viral

(29:35):
for it.
Of course, like not in a funnyway, but yeah, I do think that
the rise of misinformation issignificant and the bigger your
account, the more damage you cando if you don't know what
you're talking about 100%, 100%.

Speaker 2 (29:50):
And you're touching upon a very interesting concept,
which is the concept of trust,and I wanted to ask you about
that Trust younger generationsand financial institutions.
So we know that a lot ofyounger generations have serious
trust issues with traditionalfinancial institutions.

(30:11):
It's very well documented.
A lot of people obviouslyprefer to consume financial
information when it comes totheir personal finances via
their mobile phone rather thanmeeting in person their
financial advisor and so on, andmy question for you is do you

(30:34):
think it's too late fortraditional financial
institutions to rebuild thistrust with Gen Z and millennials
?
Is there still hope or is ittoo late?

Speaker 1 (30:45):
and Z and millennials .
Is there still hope or is ittoo late?
Look, I again have to believethat it's not too late and
here's why I think that is.
You have a couple of big syntaxlose money, lose consumers'
money, and then have theregulators be unable to get it

(31:08):
back and it will.
It will be a reckoning right.
Like people will get it, andI'm going to give you an example
from mine.
So I'm Gen X, I am not a babyboomer and and in I worked at a
dot com.
Back then we syntax work, orwhatever we're called dot coms,

(31:29):
and my company forced me to movemy little 401k from Vanguard to
their fintech provider and theywere committing fraud.
And they were committing fraudand thousands of people in San
Francisco who had moved theirretirement accounts to this

(31:50):
fintech or dot-com lost theirmoney and we had to advocate for
the district attorney of SanFrancisco to go after them to
try to get our money back.
I was 29 years old I'm verycandid on these podcasts I
didn't come from a family withmoney.

(32:12):
I didn't know anything aboutfinance when I started in
finance like many of theseyounger generations today don't
and I had saved $33,000 in my401k and I only got $13,000 back
, and it is a lesson that Inever forgot.
Like I love banks because ofthat, do you know what I mean?

(32:34):
Like I love regulatedinstitutions.
I am not some risky personwho's going to throw money to
some place that I don't know,but it's because I learned that
lesson the hard way when I was29 years old.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
Wow, that's a very interesting story.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
I've never told that story on a podcast, by the way,
so that's my first oh goshAwesome.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
We're getting all the juicy Julia stories today.
Yeah, it's crazy because, forall the criticism that big
financial institutions receive,at the end of the day maybe
there's a lack of betteralternatives and is the lesser
evil, as some people sayAlthough, of course, you know,

(33:20):
no institution is perfect.
But when you hear stories likeyours, yeah, you realize that
you know, it might not be as badas some people say.
After all, it might not be asbad as some people say, after
all, no, but look, I look at.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
I do want to say that I will die on my hill that
financial institutions have anurgent obligation to remove
friction from their processesand and they are not doing that,

(33:57):
like if, when I go to try toexercise my stock options that I
get granted from Wells and Citievery year, the process makes
me want to take my laptop andhurl it out the balcony.
It is the most horrendous painin the neck you will ever
imagine, and every year I forgethow to do it, meaning it's so

(34:19):
complicated I have no idea whatI'm doing.
So that I mean it's absurd thatit is 2025 and that is still
the case, don't you agree?
I mean, it drives me insane.

Speaker 2 (34:30):
I was actually saving this for later in the
conversation, but let's get intoit now.
So obviously youngergenerations expect seamless
digital journeys, fromonboarding to portfolio reviews.
So my question for you, as anexpert on the topic, is what
does an ideal end-to-end digitaljourney look like for wealth

(34:52):
management clients, and where isit that wealth managers often
stumble?

Speaker 1 (34:57):
Yeah, look, I have been calling for 18 years about
the fact thathyper-personalization and a
client's being able to make thechoice that they can come in and
out of digital as they see fit,right?
So if I'm working on somethingand I see my performance report

(35:24):
show up on my screen and I havea question for my FA about what
is going on there, maybe there'ssomething going on in the
market.
I had said you should be ableto ping your advisor and if your
advisor has their button on,you know their green light.
You think of it as the oldpeanuts right when the Lucy

(35:49):
would have the therapist is.
I'm in sign.
You would be able to just gotalk to your advisor about a
question.
I mean, think about how stickythat would be if that was
available 15 years ago, which iswhat I said it should be.
And what's crazy about that isthat whiteboarding tools were

(36:10):
available online that long ago.
My dad was doing tutoring withmy son 15 years ago online.
They were sharing a whiteboardonline Like how come banks
couldn't have figured that out?
Think about that.
They still don't have thatright, I mean.
So there are a number ofengagement tools that I think

(36:33):
people in the financial servicesindustry have not been creative
enough about, and with eachpassing day we kind of get more
and more behind.
And I think it goes back to thegamification conversation and
again I think that that goesback to who is in power with the
purse strings and how urgentlydo they believe this is a

(36:53):
problem?

Speaker 2 (36:55):
I think it also comes to the concept of digital
transformation, which isobviously a big buzzword when
you work within a bank, butyou've stressed many times in
the past that digitaltransformation is not only about
having a shiny new app.
It's a much more comprehensiveconcept.
So, in your opinion, what doestrue digital transformation in

(37:20):
banking look like?

Speaker 1 (37:22):
Yeah, for me, it literally goes from the bottom
of your tech stack to the top.
It means re-architecting thatso that you are able to
understand that there aremultiple channels that a client
wants to do business in and youare able to serve them up in any
time, anywhere.

(37:44):
Interaction at any given time.
And look, I mean in many bigbanks, at least in the United
States I don't know how it is inEurope the things that's
available to you on a desktopare not available to you on a
phone, and sometimes that makessense because you just don't
want to read a big PDF on yourphone.

(38:05):
But thinking through everysingle important client journey
and tackling how a customerwould want to do business with
you is what transformation lookslike.
Right, like the ability to do ameeting with your advisor by
Zoom with an interactivewhiteboard was something I said

(38:29):
we should have done 15 years ago.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
Interesting should have done 15 years ago.
Interesting, yeah, I mean againlike I have the feeling that
big institutions are strugglingwith this because it's something
that touches upon literallyevery single part of the group
and, at the end of the day, theonly way to make it happen, to
make change happen at theselevels is to really make it part

(38:53):
of the core values andingrained it in the DNA of the
institution.
Otherwise, if only a few peopleworking in the innovation part
of the group and so on believein it, nothing is going to
happen.
You really need to have abuy-in from all the stakeholders
in the group.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
But I agree with you all the stakeholders in the
group, but I agree with you.
Well, I just love that you saidthat, because I actually, at
Wells, I started an initiativewhere I said this was 15 years
ago.
Everybody is an innovationexecutive.
Like, put on your innovationhat, be thinking about what your
clients are asking for and makesure that you own it.

(39:33):
I don't own it.
My team can't be the only onethat owns it.
It's too big of a boat to lift.
So you're absolutely right, itneeds to be inculcated into the
DNA of the company 100%.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
We all have to become ambassadors.
I want to talk about anotherpart of digital transformation,
but which is obviously verytimely, which is AI, and,
specifically, how AI isrevolutionizing, or is about to
revolutionize, every part of thefinancial services industry.
So, in your view, how do youthink AI is going to change the

(40:08):
sector?
Will it replace advisors, orare we moving towards a model
where we're going to have ahybrid between just machines and
just humans, as in the past?

Speaker 1 (40:22):
So you know my, you know my answer, which is
advisors, will not go away.
The reality is that theinvestments business is a game

(41:01):
of human right, and I'm going togive a specific example.
At most large institutions,you've got your risk profile
that you have to fill out it isa KYC and your risk tolerance
profile.
Those are important pieces ofinformation that tell you who I

(41:23):
am.
And then you've got mydemographic information and
you've got my preferences thatyou might have collected about.
Do you want your paperstatement?
And blah, blah, blah.
Right, all of those things.
At most banks are in differentplaces because they were built
in silos by people who thoughtknow your client was a check the

(41:43):
box exercise because it wasdriven by compliance, when in
fact, the name of it is knowyour client, so shouldn't?
We have been using that tostart building a really rich

(42:19):
profile of the client and use itas a baseline and turn
compliance into a competitiveadvantage and then put
everything together so that thenyou could layer AI and it
wouldn't hallucinate KYC inanother, risk tolerance in
another.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
And so I mean, I know that banks know that and
they're trying to get their acttogether, and they that you know
, in order to achieve that levelof customization, firms need to
harness client data whileavoiding the creepiness of
overstepping into privacyboundaries.
So my question for you is howcan wealth managers really

(42:55):
leverage data and technology todeliver that truly tailored
advice you're advocating for,without crossing the ethical and
privacy boundaries?
Hey there, quick ad break.
Do you work in the financeindustry and have a genuinely
interesting story to share?
I'm always on the hunt forgreat guests who bring raw,

(43:17):
unfiltered insights to the table.
Or maybe you know someone witha story worth telling.
Please put us in touch.
You can reach out to medirectly via LinkedIn.
I'd love to hear from you.
And now back to the show.

Speaker 1 (43:30):
Back to the show.
Well, listen, I'm going toshare another story I've never
shared on social media.
I have traveled extensively formy entire career so two to

(43:50):
three weeks a month for 20 yearsand I checked in to a very

(44:19):
fancy hotel in Tiburon and wentinto the shower because I had a
dinner meeting.
I stepped into the shower and Iheard my name dinner at the
destination of something orother.
I am not kidding you.
I freaked out so badly that Ialmost slipped in the shower and
could have killed myself byhitting my head.
I thought a man had walked intomy room.
It was a male voice.
Do you have any guesses forwhat was going on?

Speaker 2 (44:36):
Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
I know I'm telling you it was the TV.
So they had.
This was 15 years ago.
They had a TV.
So when I came on, I turned onthe TV and I usually put it on
mute when I do but for somereason I had it, tv was talking

(45:01):
to me and obviously I hadchecked in and it had my name.
So that was an example of likea creepy experience that they
were trying to behyper-personalized, and the way
that it landed on me, because Ihad no context for it, almost
caused me to slip in the showerand crack my head open.

(45:21):
So I think what I want to sayabout your question is you have
to constantly be keeping closeto your clients and advisors as
a digital transformationtechnologist, to make sure that
you are always understandingwhat is in context for your
client and what does thatexperience look like and how do

(45:43):
you rein it in and or let putmore gas on it.
And I think that I have asaying that I'm very famous for,
which is that context saveslives.
So that's the answer.

Speaker 2 (45:59):
Yeah and yeah.
Setting the context and havingthe end customer being aware of
everything happening at alltimes, I guess that's the secret
, so that you don't get like thekind of surprises that you got
in the shower.
Different topic now, stilltalking about wealth management,

(46:21):
but talking about social media.
How can wealth management firmsuse social media effectively to
convey their messages andcreate a funnel of clients and
as a marketing andcommunications tool in general?

Speaker 1 (46:37):
Yeah, listen, this one is easy for me Every single
major executive should be onsocial media and they should be
managing it themselves.
Now, I get that it's regulatedand I guess if you're licensed,
you have to run it by compliance.
But the executives who arewinning at telling the story are

(47:02):
telling it themselves.
And obviously in the worldthere is nobody doing that
better than Elon Musk, right,and he's not in finance, but,
like I don't know, if you know,he did a whole thing on how
executives should be gettingmedia training, and it's not

(47:22):
media training to be stiff, it'sto be real.
And then I think that goes toadvisors, which are very, again,
heavily regulated should befiguring out how to tell your
story in your own way, because,I'm telling you, authenticity

(47:43):
wins.
That's it the beginning and theend.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
And talking about Musk.
Obviously we're talking aboutbig tech.
Talking about Musk?
Obviously we're talking aboutbig tech and we are seeing tech
giants already shaking upfinance, and their entry into
wealth management feels almostinevitable.
They have a ton of datacapabilities, they're experts in

(48:12):
the seamless user experienceswe were just talking about, and
I think they could pose aserious threat to traditional
wealth management and bigfinancial institutions.
So my question for you is doyou think we're going to see a
push from big tech coming intowealth management in upcoming

(48:35):
years and, if so, how could thatshake up the industry?

Speaker 1 (48:39):
Yeah, listen, I think that.
So everybody always wants apiece of the financial pie.
Right, you saw auto dealersbecome lenders, right, like this
, this is not new, and and I dothink that that there will be
pressure by the big, the bigguys, to to get into the

(49:03):
industry.
It will be interesting to seehow the regulators feel about
that.
It'll be interesting to see howbig banks push back on that,
and and or, I think, more likely, what you'll see are strategic
partnerships where, where theyfigure out how to work together

(49:23):
and and if they're smart, theywill do that so that that they
neither side becomes completelyirrelevant, right, like?
I always talk about relevanceand how do you maintain it, and
being creative is a way to dothat.
Again, my idea with the banksbanding together, putting aside

(49:44):
their brands and doing aconsortium on financial literacy
, would have lifted all shipsand it would have made the next
generation not be as wary aboutbanks.
And guess what?
The big banks in the UScouldn't get out of their own
way and look at, they're losingbecause of that.
Right Like, the next generation, to your point, doesn't trust

(50:05):
them.
So I think it's going to bethrough creative partnerships,
or and or, you know we'll juststart to see people getting
disrupted.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
I think we already saw that type of partnerships
last year.
Wasn't it Apple doing apartnership at some point with
Goldman Sachs?

Speaker 1 (50:22):
Goldman Sachs yep.

Speaker 2 (50:24):
Exactly for savings accounts and things like that.
So you think we're going to gomore into that direction where
the big tech companies, insteadof going solo, they reach out to
the big players and they sayhey, let's do something together
.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
That's my theory.
I think that, unless somethinghappens where they're able to
use blockchain, I just don't seeit happening anytime,
immediately.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
I just don't see it happening anytime, like
immediately, where they just goout on their own by themselves.
I think where the potentiallies is on the fact that a lot
of these tech companies know alot about, yeah, consumer
behavior, nudging users and soon, which brings us to the
concepts and the yeah to thefield of behavioral science.

(51:15):
Really and I'm a big fan ofthat topic too I think
behavioral science has shownthat the way financial tools are
designed can definitelyinfluence client decisions, for
better or for worse, fromnudging clients to save more to

(51:37):
helping them to avoid emotionaldecision making.
It's obviously a very powerfultool, but needs to be used
responsibly.
How can wealth managers usebehavioral science in their
digital tools to improve clientoutcomes without feeling
intrusive?

Speaker 1 (51:54):
Yeah, look, I think it's a great topic.
I actually am consulting for agreat behavioral science company
.
It's based out of New Zealand,but most of its clients are in
the United States.
I mean, look, I think that thatis a really burgeoning and
interesting field that, to yourpoint, allows advisors to look

(52:16):
really smart and be presentingthemselves in a way to their
clients.
That is very rich.
And I do think that that isanother field that is right for
AI-tization, meaning layering AIand like accelerating that
whole field using AI.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
Yeah, a couple last questions for you.
Random question on a differenttopic, but I know you have some
views on this Esports andfinancial engagement.
You've talked in the past howesports could act as a window
into the future of engagement.
Younger generations.
They don't just watchtournaments online, but they're

(52:58):
on discord, they're stream ontwitch, they they build virtual
worlds with games like warcraft.
And if finance doesn't find away to meet them in these spaces
, uh, could they, could they,could they become?
Could financial institutionsbecome irrelevant?

Speaker 1 (53:17):
Look, I think that there are lots of ways that
banks could become irrelevantand again, I think that that
makes it very dangerous forconsumers to get into trouble.
Like, I also think that thewhole gambling right investments
is, you know could become aform of gambling.

(53:40):
And then you've got a wholedifferent kind of problem and
look, I've got a 14-year-old son.
These kids are expecting toengage in different ways.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
And in different ways , and that is why I have been
impressing upon the guarded,safe rails of regulated banking
to get their act together andlean into the space right,
Because there's a lot of riskand danger out there with all
the different ways.
They could go into our earlierconversation all of the bad
actors that are out there.
Yeah, so definitely a space towatch eSports and financial
institutions.
Let's see how that evolves.
One last question for you thatI like to ask to all my guests
we have a lot of young listeners, of course, in this podcast, so
a bit more philosophicalquestion.
Listeners, of course, in thispodcast, so a bit more

(54:37):
philosophical question.
But what would your advice befor young professionals in the
finance sector?
What do they need to hear?
But they rarely do, in youropinion?

Speaker 1 (54:48):
We could have talked about this for an hour.
This is my favorite subject.
We could have talked about thisfor an hour.
This is my favorite subject.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
We'll do another episode, don't worry.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
We will, we will.
We never even talked about howpassionate I am about women in
finance and women leadership andthe importance of having women
leaders in the business.
Look, the number one bit ofadvice that I give is, first of

(55:21):
all, if you can take a skillspersonality assessment like
Myers-Briggs or CliftonStrengthand, early on in your career,
figure out what you are good at,understand what your superpower
is and then lean into it.
Never, ever, get away from it,no matter how senior you get in

(55:41):
an organization.
And I'm going to be veryspecific.
I have dyscalculia.
I struggle with math, which isa funny ironic thing given I've
made my career in finance, but Irealized that because of my
skills and I'm aCliftonStrengths person because
of my skills I was an activator.
And then my other fifthstrength was responsibility.

(56:03):
Do you want to know what thatmeant?
I wanted to solve problems andI wasn't just going to attempt
to solve them without finishingthem.
So I have made my name in theindustry for being amazing at
execution, and that is because Iunderstood my strengths and I
leaned into them.
And I never like as I got moreand more senior right.

(56:23):
I managed huge budgets andhundreds of people.
I always kept my ear to theground so that I would be able
to solve problems, and I alwaysdid that.
I never got so fancy that Inever thought I didn't have to
get my hands dirty in order tostay relevant for my job.

(56:44):
So that is my number one bit ofadvice always that's a good one
.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
I've done a few of those tests too.
Always that's a good one.
I've done a few of those teststoo, and I think it's pretty
cool when you start readingwhich type of personality you
are, you have, which parts youshould work on, what are your
strengths, which direction youshould follow.
It's very fascinating to readall that.
It's almost scary on howprecise it is.

(57:13):
But, julia, it's been amazingto have you on the show.
Thank you so much for all thesevaluable insights that you've
shared with us.
I hope the audience find ituseful.
I found it super useful.
I love the stories you sharedand all the views regarding the
future of the industry and AIand technology.
I'm an optimist by nature, soI'm very excited about what's to

(57:35):
come.
But yeah, we'll see.
In any case, thank you forjoining.
For all of you that don't knowJulia, make sure to follow her
on her socials X and LinkedIn,where she, as I was saying at
the beginning, posts veryregularly.
And, julia, thank you so muchand have a wonderful

(57:56):
continuation of 2025.
Thank you.
The Blunt Dollar is written,produced, hosted and edited by
me, Ignacio Ramirez.
Everything you hear concept,script, sound, design and
production comes straight frommy desk and occasionally my
kitchen table.
Thank you so much for listeningand join me in the next episode
of the Blunt Dollar for moreraw, honest finance

(58:18):
conversations.
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