March 11, 2025 • 55 mins
In this episode of The Blunt Dollar, I sit down with Patrick DeBattista, CFA, CPA, and financial educator, who is on a mission to democratize financial knowledge. With over 200 workshops delivered across Europe, a growing social media presence, and a leading role in Malta’s national initiative on financial education, Patrick is redefining how people approach money.
We dive deep into the financial literacy crisis, why only 34% of adults pass a basic financial test, and the shocking misconceptions about money management that even professionals struggle with.
Patrick shares his take on:
💡 The most harmful financial goal people set and how to reframe it
💡 Why younger generations aren’t financially illiterate but just need the right approach
💡 The challenge of regulating financial content on social media
💡 The emotional side of money and why most financial advisors miss the mark
💡 How automation, discipline, and hiding your investing apps can protect you from yourself
We also talk about Patrick’s viral TikTok moment, the role of AI in the future of finance, and his biggest personal finance regret.
Whether you are a retail investor, a finance professional, or just someone looking to get better with money, this episode is packed with insights.
🎧 Tune in now because understanding money shouldn’t be a privilege!
Oh, and if you haven't already... subscribe to The Blunt Dollar for more raw and honest finance conversations.
New episodes drop every other week! Available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your podcasts.
And last, but not least, don't forget to follow me on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ignacio-ramirez-moreno-cfa/
Enjoy the episode!
Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. It does not constitute financial, investment, or legal advice. Listeners should consult a qualified financial professional before making any financial decisions.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What is the most shocking misconception about
personal finance?
Speaker 2 (00:04):
People do not understand the difference
between stocks, bonds and funds.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
It's that basic.
What's the biggest mistake thatpeople, and particularly retail
investors, make during thesevolatile?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
markets.
34% of adults have a minimumlevel of financial literacy, so
only one in three can pass abasic financial test.
There's a very dangerous gapdeveloping in the world.
There's actually a term forthis.
It's called the financialadvice gap.
Unless you have a certain levelof wealth, you are literally
shut out of wealth managementservices.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
If you could share one universal truth about money
that you think everyone shouldlive by what would it be?
That's a really good questionshould live by?
what would it be?
That's a really good question.
This is the Blunt Dollar withIgnacio Ramírez.
(00:55):
Hello everyone and welcome to anew episode of the Blunt Dollar
.
Today, we are super excited tohave Patrick de Batista on board
.
Patrick many of you may know him.
He's on a mission todemocratize and demystify
(01:17):
financial knowledge.
He's based in Malta.
He's a chartered financialanalyst, a certified public
accountant and seasonedfinancial educator with over 20
years of experience helpingindividuals and businesses
consolidate, grow and protecttheir finances.
Patrick has delivered well over200 financial workshops across
(01:38):
Europe and is a lecturer at theUniversity of Malta and other
business schools.
At the University of Malta andother business schools, she's a
regular contributor to leadingEuropean media and collaborates
with platforms like Loving Maltato create tailored financial
education videos that reachthousands, if not millions, in
2023,.
Patrick was also selected bythe government of Malta to lead
(02:01):
the country's nationalinitiative on money management
and retirement planning,delivering practical, actionable
financial content to peoplefrom all walks of life.
And, finally but not least,through his platform, finance4u
and his growing social mediapresence, patrick is breaking
barriers and making financialliteracy accessible to everyone.
(02:24):
Patrick, super excited to haveyou on board.
Welcome to the Blunt Dollar.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Thank you so much, Ignacio.
I'm blushing already.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
What an introduction.
I mean, I was preparing thosenotes, you know, for people that
are not familiarized with youand I was like, oh wow, he's
like he's a superstar in theworld of personal finance, so
excited to have you on board.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Thanks, it takes one to know one mate.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
So obviously, today we're going to be talking about
personal finance quite a lot,because that's your area of
expertise.
We're going to be talking aboutsocial media, about retail
investors many things to coverbut I'd like to start with
personal finance, obviously.
Well, you've worked with many,many people on different front
(03:11):
lines when it comes to financialeducation.
You've made many workshops, aswe were just saying.
Quite often you've encounteredshocking gaps in understanding
some things that people,surprisingly, may not be
familiarized with, such as howinterest works or confusing net
(03:32):
worth with income, and I'veheard you in the past say that
those moments reveal how poorlyfinancial literacy is integrated
in traditional education.
So my first question for you iswhat is the most shocking
misconception about personalfinance that you've encountered
in the past, and what does thatsay really about the need for
(03:53):
grassroots education?
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Well, straight to the point, Ignacio.
There are many, many shockingexamples, too many to mention.
The most deceivingly common oneis that people do not
understand the differencebetween stocks, bonds and funds.
(04:18):
It's that basic.
So if we look at the statisticsand that is where you kind of
pour over the detail and youstart understanding the the
gravity of the situation you'llfind that in the oecd, only um
34 percent of adults have aminimum level of financial
(04:38):
literacy, so only one in threecan pass a basic financial test.
And it is not surprising thatwe find these gaps in real life,
and I experienced them throughmy workshops and also through my
daily life followers andclients as well 34%.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
I mean that sounds insane, that's absolutely crazy.
So that 34% what does it alludeexactly?
To People that have basicallyzero financial knowledge, or
people that have a little bit ofknowledge but really when you
get to more specific stuff, theyreally don't understand the
nuances.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah.
So it's not specific at all.
It is a basic test.
Well, what for us would betermed as basic, such as how
would you define inflation?
Do you know what compoundingmeans?
It's a multiple choice.
And well, just today, actually,I was.
I was in a workshop andspeaking about compounding
(05:39):
another misconception a firm ofof accountants and these are
financially savvy people, right,and yet, and they do not
understand that, for example, abond, a bond does not compound.
You know when, when you receivethe interest in a through a
(06:01):
bond, when you receive the, thecoupon, then you're generally
receiving it in your bankaccount, whereas if you, for
example, invest in anaccumulating ETF or an
accumulating bond fund, then youwill experience the benefit of
compounding.
These little nuances add up andcontribute to what I term the
(06:24):
financial literacy crisis.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
And is that financial literacy crisis what made you
want to become a financialadvisor or a personal finance
guru in some way?
Like the frustration and therealization that there's such a
big gap?
Was it like what really pushedyou in that direction?
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah, so I was working for a long time in
business advisory.
I had a stint in private equityin malta, london, and I also
studied in spain, but luckily Istarted teaching and lecturing
from a relatively young age andI would see early on that people
of all levels professionalslike MBA candidates, ceos, hr
(07:12):
professionals, people of allkinds would struggle with what I
took for granted as basicfinancial knowledge or what we
as CFHR to holders would termhey, everybody should know these
, but you know again, terms likecompounding, terms like cash
flow, liquidity these were allterms which were unknown to them
(07:33):
and year after year you know Iteach mba program after mba
program and master's levels andthe same issues crop up.
So I thought right, 20 havepassed.
I'm sitting here in a corporatejob.
How audacious would it be tocombine my accounting, advisory
(07:55):
and teaching knowledge into oneoffering that actually makes an
impact on people's lives, and Ithink that's happening right now
?
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Amazing.
Yeah, I'm curious to dig alittle bit more into this
because obviously I mean in somesort of echo chamber, I'm a
fixed income advisor, I'msurrounded by professionals, so
obviously I have the feelingthat everyone knows about
financial markets and thoseterms that you were alluding to,
like compounding and interestand so on.
(08:25):
But the reality is thatprobably it's not the case, and
I guess that when you talk aboutthe general public, a lot of
people have wrong impressions orexpectations about what
investing is, what it takes tobe successful in investing, and
(08:45):
a lot of people I mean I'veheard you say in the past that
have very wrong expectationsabout how to become a
millionaire by certain ages andhave unhealthy comparisons that
result in them having very riskyfinancial behaviors.
So, in your opinion, what's themost harmful financial goal
(09:08):
that people tend to set forthemselves and how do you
specifically help them reframeit into something healthier?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
This is a very interesting one because, in my
view, the most harmful goal isnot having a goal.
My experience is people tend tothink of retirement as either
this fixed destination that youstumble upon when you're 65 and
(09:42):
the state magically waives apension which there's no
guarantee that's going to happenin the future, or some very
lofty, unattainable figure, say1 million euros, that is
completely unachievable to thebasic or, let's say, the common
or the normal individual.
(10:04):
And what I would say is let'simagine a world or an
educational system where wewould have a high level
retirement planner calculatingwhat it might take, using some
return assumptions, using a timehorizon, what it might take to
(10:27):
work towards a tangible figurethat would be a retirement goal.
It might not be at age 14,might be at age 16 or age 18,
but how much more helpful itwould be to teach people, using
figures, how to plan forretirement.
And it's never too early toplan for it.
That is part of, in my view,what goal setting could be.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
It's a bit of a paradox, because you say not
having a goal is the secret, butat the same time, you cannot
plan for retirement withouthaving some sort of specific
figure in mind, right?
So I guess the key is, at theend of the day, talking to a
professional and having more orless a path or a clear idea of
(11:12):
which direction to follow.
But I guess the key is, withoutbeing overly ambitious and
trying to be pragmatic andrealistic in some way, which
brings us to another question Iwanted to ask you.
I know you're a big literaturefan.
You've talked about a story ofJoseph Heller and his Catch-22
(11:36):
book.
That is a classic of Americanliterature.
Can you tell us why you I meanwhat is the anecdote that you
like to use when talking aboutthis book and how does it apply
to define what people strugglingto define as being enough for
(11:56):
them?
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Yeah.
So the story goes as follows,right?
So there's this lavish party inNew York sometime in the 1920s
let's say it was a GreatGatsby-style lavish party and
there is a hedge fund managerwho's hosting this party.
(12:19):
And there's Joseph Heller, whoI believe was the author of
Catch-22, and there's someoneelse, his friend the name
escapes me right now and JosephHeller's friend, right, the
author of Catch-22, josephHeller.
His friend tells him did youknow that this hedge fund
(12:40):
manager, this guy, earned morein one day than you ever did
from your book Catch-22.
And Joseph Heller turns to himand tells him well, that might
be true, but I have something hewill never have enough Enough.
(13:02):
And this is a struggle I findwith today's world, that one
besides the general lack ofeducation and're bombarded with
instant gratification, and thatinstant gratification means that
(13:37):
we crave more and more and more.
And what really is enough?
Where do we stop?
Where do we draw a line?
Stop, where do we draw a line?
So it might be good toarticulate and say, hey, what is
the baseline level of income,what is the baseline level of
wealth that I need to achieve tobe happy?
(13:58):
And whether you achieve that,as you say, with a financial
advisor, which would befantastic.
You achieve that, as you say,with a financial advisor, which
is would be fantastic, or onyour own, then I feel that you
still need to question andunderstand you yourself one,
what you want, and two, whatyour financial advisor is
(14:18):
feeding you.
And on that note, there's avery dangerous gap developing in
the world.
There's actually a term forthis, it's called the financial
advice gap wherein, at least inmy country, unless you have a
certain level of wealth, you areliterally shut out of the
wealth management servicesbecause, of course, you know
(14:44):
financial financial firms,investment firms have their kyc,
have the regulation, and sothey wouldn't be able to onboard
you profitably, and that isunderstandable.
So the onus is on us to tolearn and manage our financial
futures provided we don't have amassive war just to invest.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
It's almost like a philosophical question, I guess.
So a part of your job almostbecomes like being a life coach,
because defining what is enoughis such a subjective question,
like it varies widely from oneone person to another, and even
like if you ask the same personat different moments in time,
(15:30):
they they could give you, theywill possibly give you like very
different answers.
Um, so I'm, yeah, I'm, I wouldlove to see you in action in an
actual session one day to to seehow, how that that whole thing
out.
But thanks for the analogy.
I think it's very relevant and,being an avid reader myself, I
haven't read Catch-22, but Ithink I'll have to put it in my
(15:52):
reading list now you must read.
A lot of the people that youtalk to are young people, gen Z
and millennials, which are in avery difficult spot, I'd argue,
right now, because on one side,they're facing like rising
housing costs, stagnant wages,student debt and so on, and on
(16:15):
the other hand, they're oftencriticized for their spending
habits, for indulging inluxuries like an avocado toast
or traveling and seekingexperiences and things like that
.
So there's a little bit of amisconception about these
younger generations when itcomes to finance, because on one
side, some people feel they'rea bit disconnected or oblivious
(16:38):
to financial knowledge, but youhave said in the past that it is
not true actually, that thisgeneration is thirsty for
learning, for becoming better inpersonal finance.
It's just that we need to finda way to showcase the
information to them in anaccessible, digestible,
tech-savvy way.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
So my question for you is in your opinion, what is
the best way to communicate withyounger generations about
finance and their financialfuture?
Ignacio, I am a big fan of yourcontent.
I love it.
I try to replicate or I try tocreate similar content myself in
my own way, and I believe thatwe're currently facing a bit of
(17:34):
a crossroads, at least in mycountry.
I think.
Throughout the whole of Europe,gen Z spend more time in the
virtual world than they do inthe real world.
52% of Gen Z get theirfinancial advice from TikTok.
(17:56):
Now, herein lies thecontroversy.
You and I both know that weneed to be very careful how to
speak, especially aboutinvestments.
We are bound by a code ofethics, we are regulated and we
cannot just give out investmentadvice, but, at the same time,
(18:19):
we need to create engagingcontent that resonates with
today's generation.
Unfortunately, yes, you and I doexist, but still there remains
a large swath of creators withdubious intentions, questionable
(18:42):
qualifications and outright,sometimes malicious intentions,
who are engaging and are catchy,and these people tend to come
from jurisdictions like the US,maybe Asia, wherein they would
not fall under the regulatorycap of the European Union, and
(19:03):
this is who we're competingagainst.
I cannot compete against theseindividuals, but this is what
the algorithm is feeding.
So the question remains howwill regulators, how will the
powers that be up top, how willthe powers that be up top
(19:27):
incorporate engaging financialeducation, engaging financial
educators to be able to speak inan engaging manner, without, of
course, giving investmentadvice and give us the guidance
to say things the way we shouldsay them?
What do you think about this?
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Hey there, quick favor to ask If you enjoy the
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(20:04):
Thanks so much for being hereand let's keep these great
finance conversations going Well.
I actually have very strongopinions on this.
I collaborated with the CFAInstitute in the past concerning
a report they wrote aboutinfluencers, which to me it's
still a bit of a weird word.
To be honest, personally, Idon't consider myself an
(20:27):
influencer.
I like to write content aboutfinance, that's all.
But I guess there's differentthings.
First of all, a lot of contentcreators especially because of
what you said, because theydon't come from the industry and
don't know the regulations andthe risk and so on associated to
(20:49):
them are doing or committingfraud or providing financial
advice without really realizingit.
And I think if anyone isconsidering creating content
(21:12):
online, that's the first thingthat they should really take
into consideration educatethemselves and be aware of what
they can and cannot do.
And secondly, there's obviouslythe consumers right, like the
people that read all thisinformation online.
Clearly we need to protect them.
(22:09):
No-transcript these issues,which is also the most
complicated one, would be tohave all the financial
regulators across the globesitting down around a massive
table with the.
How many countries do we havein the world 200 and something I
(22:30):
believe publish financialcontent online so that they know
what they can and what theycan't not do, because money is
not a game.
It's a very serious matter andwe need to make sure that
everyone is aware of what shouldbe feasible and whatnot.
(22:55):
But yeah, for anyone reallywishing to dig more into that
topic, I recommend theFinfluencer Report from the CFA
Institute.
Just type on Google CFAInstitute Finfluencer Report and
it's very well written andthere's a lot of insight in
there.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
That's true.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
So obviously that brings us inevitably to the
question of retail investors andsocial media and platforms like
Robinhood and so on that havemade accessible financial
markets to a lot of people,which is great news, but has
also introduced the concept ofgamification, like the famous
(23:34):
confetti animation for tradesand so on that, in some
instances, can push people tobehave impulsively in some way,
and you've highlighted in thepast that these kind of things
have often confused investorsbecause they were not really
(23:54):
understanding the risk they weretaking.
So my question for you is doyou think the majority of retail
investors really understand therisk they're taking when
they're investing, or are theybeing misled by platforms that
are basically using gamificationfor investing?
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Well, the short answer is no.
I don't think investors trulyunderstand the risk that they're
taking at large.
What I know for sure is thatpeople with apps like Robinhood
traded up to nine times morethan traditional brokerages in
(24:34):
the US, and yet the averageindividual investor
underperformed the market by1.5% every single year.
Now, from my perspective,statistics like those defeat the
purpose of democratizinginvesting, because here we are
(24:56):
sat in 2025 where we haveinvesting at our fingertips, but
this is not what we signed upfor.
We did not sign up for trading,nor gambling.
There's a massive difference.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Again.
You're throwing out someinteresting stats there.
I didn't know that REITinvestors trade nine times more
than before and that they'remaking one and a half percent
less on average because of allthis gamification.
I mean, I guess differentstudies will show different
stats, but the message is maybea portion of the population is
(25:37):
trading more than they should.
I have a little bit of adifferent view to you when it
comes to all of these.
I think having access to allthese tools is great.
I definitely prefer a worldwhere people have access to
financial markets than not, andI guess you know each of us has
also like a responsibility ineducating himself and
(26:01):
understanding what they're doing.
Um, I think really the, the,the key would be like yeah, none
of these platforms trying tomislead investors and which I
don't think it's the case reallyand and most of the investors
simply spending a little bitmore time understanding what
they're doing.
I think that's the key, insteadof following the crowds or
(26:27):
being subject to emotionaldecision-making, which is
another thing I wanted to askyou about.
From what you're telling us,your long-term investor and your
strategy consists in trying toreduce the noise as much as
possible.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Correct.
Correct strategy consists intrying to reduce the noise as
much as possible.
Correct, correct.
You know I'm not interested intapping the alpha, so to speak.
I'm happy with the beta.
Or, you know, for those whodon't understand, I'm happy with
the market return achievingthat.
You know I have other things todo with my time.
I have my business.
I'll generate, generate myalpha through my own business,
(27:02):
you know, through the size,premium and this, that sort of
thing of my small business.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
So, and maybe to close up this section on retail
investors, obviously we've seena lot of new things happening in
the space, new technologiespopping up.
What do you think is next forretail investing?
What are we likely to see inthe next 10 years?
Speaker 2 (27:30):
I published an article in the FT Advisor about
this topic More from the angleof the advisor, because people
are asking, like you know, withall these robo advisors, with ai
and with this tech coming in,is the financial advisor, is the
(27:52):
role of the financial advisorgonna remain relevant?
And my answer to that was 100%.
I believe that we don't tapenough into the emotional and
psychological aspects of moneymanagement.
To give an example, 30% ofpeople think about their
(28:13):
personal finances while at work.
Deloitte said that 90% say thatmoney impacts their daily
stress levels.
Now notice how none of thesestudies say investors are
concerned about the sharp ratioof their portfolios or the
volatility or this or that.
So next time we're meetingclients, instead of going on
(28:37):
about portfolio performanceportfolio performance why not
listen to what clients are trulysaying?
Because instead of long-termtime horizon, perhaps they're
saying I want to fund mychildren's university education,
or instead of saying returnsaren't high enough might be
(28:58):
called for, it's getting toolate for me to pursue my dreams.
Can we look into that sort ofelement in our work, the
emotional element, rather thansolely the portfolio management
one?
Speaker 1 (29:15):
And have you seen any exciting projects that are
trying to tap that space at themoment?
Speaker 2 (29:22):
projects that are trying to tap that space at the
moment.
Yeah, so in my country there isthis drive I started it for
financial coaching, financialeducation and financial coaching
, and that looks at money andfinance, one from a behavioral
perspective and two from amentorship angle.
(29:42):
So for those people who areunderserved or unable to tap
into financial advice, there'sfinancial education.
They could.
That could get them to start tostart saving, building an
emergency fund and understandingwhat the options are.
From an educational perspective, because, like you said, it's
(30:04):
up to the individual.
Up to the individual to makethat decision and to learn.
The onus is on us.
So having a coach guiding youis exactly that You're the
player in the football pitch andyour coach is simply guiding
you.
I think this is a going to be aan increasing trend going
(30:28):
forward yeah, I'm excited aboutthat.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
I I'm also really looking forward to see which
degree of personalization we canget through technology, because
, at the end of the day, I thinkthink the secret really lies
there, whenever you're readingany content online, figuring out
how does it apply to yourspecific circumstances and
whether it has value or not toyour specific portfolio and I'm
(30:52):
very keen on seeing new startupsand companies trying to work on
that and integrate at the sametime, with the help of
technology, all the behavioralfinance aspects that you were
alluding to.
Yeah, correct.
So I want to go now again tothe topic of influencers or
finance content creators,because obviously it's a topic
(31:16):
that is very close to both ofour hearts.
I'm only present on LinkedIn,really.
I know you're on differentplatforms.
My first question for you ishow can these social media
platforms really strike abalance between encouraging all
this type of finance content andcracking down on harmful
(31:37):
misinformation?
Is it even their responsibilityor not?
And if it is, what could theydo in?
Speaker 2 (31:50):
order to regulate or moderate a little bit this space
?
Oh man, I think about thisquestion every single day.
You know you are on LinkedIn,you're very popular on LinkedIn
and luckily, luckily, that is aplatform for professionals where
you know you show your name, soprobably that is, that is a a
(32:10):
plus in terms of transparency,so people don't hide behind
their keyboards, behind theirname.
And the more I ask thisquestion, the more I realize I
don't know the answer.
All I know is that, yes,ideally, ideally we'd all sit
together, at least the majorregulators in the world US, uk,
(32:34):
eu, at the very least and comeup with some sort of policy to
enforce or crack down or promote, even promote, qualified
content creators, because wetend to at least in the EU, I
believe that we tend to give anegative slant towards
regulation.
(32:55):
We tend to, in my view, regulatea lot.
We focus, let's say we focus onregulation.
So what if we, as regulators,classified what qualified
(33:16):
content creators look like,worked with them, helped them
and together joined forces andpromoted this content, because
together we're stronger?
As things stand I hate to saythis, but at least on TikTok and
Instagram to a lesser extent,linkedin, whenever my content
(33:40):
comes up, say on tiktok.
Chances are the next couple ofvideos are going to be some
random stranger, normally fromthe us, who is of a questionable
character, dubious intentions.
Hell, I even have an imposteron t on TikTok promoting a
crypto scam in my name.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
There's a lot of work to do.
Yeah, it's interesting.
(34:31):
I guess we're all learningalong the way, but for sure
there needs to be some sort ofcoordinated effort in order to
make the space safer because, asthings stand out, there's
definitely a lot of dangers whenit comes to the type ofifying
content that can lead to realharm.
Hey there, quick ad break.
Do you work in the financeindustry and have a genuinely
(34:53):
interesting story to share?
I'm always on the hunt forgreat guests who bring raw,
unfiltered insights to the table, or maybe you know someone with
a story worth telling.
Please put us in touch.
You can reach out to medirectly via LinkedIn.
I'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
And now back to the show.
That's a really good question.
It's all of the above pluspromoting products, say
investing platforms or funds orwhatever.
Where there is a monetarybenefit, it, yes, uh, there is
(35:46):
probably the second.
The second factor is the mostprominent, at least that I see
wherein you'd find these contentcreators who promise financial
freedom.
You know they're sitting on abeach and learn how to trade
with me and become rich everyday, when, if you read through
the content, then you'd see thatthis is nothing but either
(36:06):
network marketing or, at worst,it's a pyramid scheme.
I believe that these people,their advantage is they have
strength in numbers.
These people, their advantageis they have strength in numbers
.
No-transcript well.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Thanks for the thanks for, for, for, uh, for the
compliment there.
No man, you know you're good.
I really, I really appreciateum, trying to learn and trying
to get better every day.
That's the only thing I know.
But, um, yeah, it's, uh, it's,it's definitely work in progress
.
Each platform has their ownflair.
Personally, what I like aboutlinkedin is, yeah, I feel the
debate is a little bit more um,civilized and and people know
(37:08):
who you are and your degree ofability, and that's why I feel
most identified with.
But I guess the underlyingmessage here is that there is a
lot of value coming from socialmedia platforms.
There's a lot of knowledge, alot of intel, a lot of quality
stuff, because we're onlytalking about the bad stuff,
right.
But the reason why I'm on theseplatforms is because I learned
so much from other people,people with whom I would usually
(37:32):
don't have the chance to, to,to exchange, you know, and, and
for me, it's, it's, it'sdefinitely a source of very
valuable information.
Plus, let's not forget that noteveryone can have access to a
Bloomberg terminal or even to asubscription to the FT.
So I understand why people goto social media to seek
(37:53):
information.
But, again, it's aboutseparating what's good from bad,
separating the quality stufffrom the noise, and really
making a good use of it, andthat's by no means an easy task.
I think it's only going to getworse, actually, with the
arrival of AI and all thisAI-generated content, because
there's going to be more andmore posts out there, more
(38:16):
production, and it's just goingto magnify this whole thing.
So we definitely need to dosomething about all this as soon
as possible.
Yeah, please.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Sorry, no, no, go ahead.
Yeah, we have access to themost information we ever had.
Last I checked was that there'smore data in the past two years
than there ever was ever inhistory.
That's beautiful and scaryExactly.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
So, talking about TikTok, like I've never really
had a viral hit, but you you did, so I wanted to ask you uh, can
you share with our audiencewhat your viral um video was
about on tiktok and, inhindsight, why do you think it
went viral?
What does it tell you aboutwhat your audience is is looking
(39:08):
for?
Speaker 2 (39:08):
and, yeah, just your overall thoughts on this yeah
agreed so it was a the end of aday in summer.
I was still in my corporate job, I was tired, it was a bad day
at the office, so I went out fora pizza, to you know, drown my
(39:29):
sorrows and I was gonna go backhome.
I didn't feel like recordinganything and my friend who was
with me at the time, she's likeit's just one minute, let's
record it, okay, fine, I waswalking my dog, I was waiting
for him to, you know, do hisbusiness, like okay, so let's
(39:54):
record it.
And this was a video of thingsI wish I did in my 20s.
Something like that and givingtips Like I wish I started
investing early.
I wish I invested inexperiences rather than you know
things.
I wish I bought a smallproperty rather than you know,
(40:14):
rather than rent it, for example.
And uh, I don't understand why,but it went completely viral.
I, it took me one minute torecord that video and this went
viral.
And then I have videos that Ispend like 20 hours editing and
painstakingly scripting that arefree, by the way.
Like you, you create freecontent, free value, and they
(40:36):
don't do anywhere near as well.
And that tells me that today'sgeneration and people at large,
it's not a generational thing.
What we want is authenticity.
We don't want soullessinstitutions.
People buy from people.
(40:59):
Premier League, which is themost powerful football league in
the world.
Football clubs in the EnglishPremier League have a combined
following of 200 million people,while Cristiano Ronaldo on his
own has 1 billion, which leadsme to think that people want
(41:22):
content from real people,genuine people.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
So you felt that that video resonated with your
audience just because they insome way identified themselves
with you and the problems youwere sharing, and it was
basically relatable and it camefrom an actual person rather
than just some random entity.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Exactly, and I was like talking fast.
I wasn't used to editing orcreating videos For me.
Looking at it now, it's acrappy video man, but probably
someone who's normal, you knowwho's just like.
Looking at this, he's like, oh,that guy's just like me.
You probably passed.
I probably passed from thatstreet as well, so I could
relate.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
Yeah, that's the beauty and the curse of social
media Like you never know what'sgoing to work and what is not,
and often the things that workthe best are definitely not the
ones where you've put the mostwork.
I was thinking about my ownexperiences when you said that.
Yeah, sometimes I made postswhere I'm pouring my heart into.
(42:24):
I'm like this is the best thingI've written in my whole life.
This is so smart.
And then you get like threeviews and then another day
you're super tired, you don'tknow what to do.
You do something like superquick in like five minutes and
all of a sudden it goes throughthe roof and you're like okay, I
don't understand anythinganymore.
But yeah, that's a wholedifferent topic how the
(42:45):
algorithm works.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Is there an example of a video or I don't know a
post whatever that wentcompletely viral and maybe
didn't put enough effort in itFrom my own?
Speaker 1 (42:58):
content you mean.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
I mean, as I was saying, I never really had like
truly viral content.
I mean, I guess it depends onhow you define viral, but in
linkedin I'm talking about maybefive digits, uh, engagements.
So 10 000 likes and above.
I had a few at three, fourthousand, which was nice, but
(43:22):
truly viral I would say it's 10000 and above.
I never had those.
But I can say like, especiallyat the beginning, um, I was, I
was putting a lot of work on onmy pieces.
It was almost like newspaperarticles, like in-depth research
about I don't know the ukeconomy.
Why is it slowing down?
And and I would imagine it asan ft piece and I would spend
(43:46):
maybe seven or eight hours andwriting a lot of stuff and
really like flopping.
And then the day afterwards,after being frustrated with that
, I would just be like, okay,you know what?
I'm just going to do threelines summarizing what happened
yesterday in the market, with anice image and all of a sudden
that would work well and there'sno real reason.
(44:11):
I, I I try not to think toomuch about this because you know
vanity metrics are are bad foryou if you're, if you're on
social media, uh, because you'regonna get a lot more
frustrations than good days.
I would say you just need totry to embrace the journey and
enjoy the people you're meetingalong the way.
(44:32):
I mean, I don't think we wouldbe having this conversation
today if it wasn't for LinkedIn.
(45:00):
No-transcript, oh no, verytimely and a little bit complex
and try to simplify that, orstuff related to storytelling,
where I talk about a famousfinance profile and their story
and and why I admire them in insome way, which brings us to to
(45:21):
what you were saying before,that people like to consume from
other people and and and theylove stories and so on.
But yeah, if I, if I get a morespecific answer or I find the
magic formula, I'll let you know, because I don't know.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
I'd like to also give a shout out to all those
creators like you who aresharing knowledge.
This is free value, man like.
Imagine we were young, right,at least I don't know how old
you are, but you're probablyyounger than me, but in my 20s,
yes, we had the internet, but wealways, like, resorted to
(45:56):
periodicals or journals or youknow, boring long articles.
We never had free content from,from people in the trenches
like us.
You're producing all of this.
You're doing it for free, youknow.
Guys follow Ignacio.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
Thanks, I appreciate that and follow Patrick also.
He's also producing a lot ofvery high quality content.
Looking at the future, I wantedto ask you also about AI,
because obviously everyone istalking about this trend at the
moment.
Do you think AI is going toreplace Patrick in I don't know,
(46:35):
five, ten years down the road,or are you irreplaceable forever
?
Speaker 2 (46:42):
Well, I think one of me is more than enough in this
world, mate.
Well, I think one of me is morethan enough in this world, mate
.
I'd like to think that, justlike you know, we had tractors
replacing people in the agrarianrevolution, or we had the steam
(47:03):
engine replacing others in theindustrial revolution, Now we
have the information age.
Right, you have the AI age.
I'd like to think thatqualities like empathy, which is
something I'm very big on andsomething that seems to resonate
with people, as a finance bro,people seem to love the fact
(47:26):
that I speak or I'm wearing awhite t-shirt and I'm talking
like a normal, decent person,not, in final, speak with an
empathic mindset.
I think qualities like thatwill stand the test of time, but
(47:49):
I could be wrong For the timebeing For the time being.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
Yeah, I'm excited, you know I'm excited.
I mean, everyone that knows meknows that I love to talk about
AI.
I'm an optimist, but I think weare not even realizing how
powerful this is going to be.
I read this sentence a coupleof days ago that we tend to
overestimate the impact or howfar technology can go on the
(48:17):
short term and underestimate iton the long term, and I think
we're definitely not reallyrealizing how far all of this is
going to take us.
I mean, I tend to agree withyou, by the way, I feel empathy
is going to be the thing that isgoing to be hardest to be
replaced by machines.
But again, I think we cannoteven comprehend or imagine how
(48:40):
the AI agents and machines androbots of the future are going
to look like and how human-likethey're going to be.
And I guess at some point yeah,I, I can completely see how,
maybe like 50 years down theroad you go to your, your bank
which could be physical oronline and there's a, an ai
(49:02):
agent actually answering all ofyour questions uh, instead of an
actual person, and making useof a lot of empathy, as we were
saying, not just in a veryrobotic fashion, so I'm excited
about it.
I think there's going to be alot of disruption in the space
and, as a finance professional,I want to become part of that
(49:24):
change and that's why I alwaystry to stay updated with
everything happening, playingaround with the tools, and my
advice for our listeners anyonein the industry, any industry
really, but particularly infinance is you got to roll up
your sleeves and use these toolsand stay updated, because
change is coming, change forgood, but things are very likely
(49:47):
going to change and and um, andthe sooner you you start, the
better, um, but that's again my,my personal view.
I know a lot of people thinkdifferently, um, but you know,
uh the uh.
Speaker 2 (50:02):
John maynard keynes, the, the famous economist in the
1920s.
People say he got it completelywrong when he said that in 100
years which is around about now,or in, I think it was, 80 years
he said that technology isgoing to advance so much that
people would work less, end upnot even working and spend money
(50:23):
on enjoyment and leisure andfun, which is, of course, not
what we ended up doing.
We ended up as finance peopledoing exactly the opposite.
We created work out of nothing,but some part of me seems to
add credence to John MaynardKeynes that perhaps he was not
(50:43):
so wrong.
After all, will AI facilitateour life?
Will AI enable us to worksmarter and not harder?
Perhaps now I'm starting tobelieve him a bit more.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
Maybe he was not so far from the truth.
Good point.
So we're getting close to theend.
I have a couple more questions,a bit more maybe philosophical,
I guess.
But first of all, if you couldshare one universal truth about
money that you think everyoneshould live by, what would it be
(51:18):
?
Speaker 2 (51:19):
Pay yourself first Before you pay anyone else, so
say, I don't know, you earn asalary.
What do people usually do?
They receive their salary andthey start paying their mortgage
, their rent, their groceries,this and that, and then if
there's something left at theend of the month, then they'd
(51:41):
keep it for themselves.
So they save what's left afterspending rather than spend
what's left after saving.
Speaker 1 (51:49):
So I guess, yeah, what you're saying also is being
a little bit intentional withwhat you earn and proactive,
especially when it comes tofinance.
Yeah, 100%, which brings us alittle bit to your viral TikTok
video.
But what's a financial lessonyou wish you had learned earlier
(52:12):
in your career and that youwould love our listeners to be
aware of?
Wow man.
Speaker 2 (52:20):
Yeah, I hope the CFA Institute won't scold us for
this, but you know, you and I,we went through the ringer.
We did our master's degrees, westudied, we did our Studied for
our exams At least.
I studied, I studied, studied,studied, studied, studied, and
(52:41):
then did not implement anythingof what I studied in practice.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
So I mean that's a good point not implement
anything of what they studied inpractice.
So I mean that's a good point.
I think you know, like thetheory part, like I think it's
great, I don't think it was abad thing.
I always say that an investmentin education always pays the
best interest.
So I'd argue that you becominga CFA charter holder or doing
your finance studies probably isearning you more interest than
(53:07):
what you would have gotten fromthat index fund.
Quite honest.
But what I do agree with you isyou need to put things in
motion.
And the theory is great, butit's like creating a company or
a startup right, I'm not anexpert on the field if you can
have the best ideas, but if youdon't implement them, then
(53:29):
they're worth zero.
And I guess this is the samething.
You can learn about finance asmuch as you want, but at the end
of the day, you need to dosomething with that knowledge.
And when it comes to yourpersonal finance, you can read
as much as you want and plan andso on, but at the end of the
day, you got to put thatknowledge in practice and you
got to do something.
So yeah, start investing earlyand let the magic of compounding
(53:55):
do the rest, which, as many ofyou know, albert Einstein once
labeled as the eighth wonder ofthe world and that, yeah, I
think that's a great wrap up forthis conversation.
Patrick, thank you so much forcoming to the show.
It's been an absolute pleasuretalking to you on the Blunt
Dollar.
(54:16):
I mean, I think you're thefirst person we have on board
talking about personal finance.
I thought it was veryinsightful.
I really appreciate that.
Again, for those of you thatdon't know Patrick, make sure,
uh, to check him out on onsocials.
For those of you that know him,make sure to follow him.
And, patrick, best of luck forthis year.
(54:37):
Um, it's been an absolute honorto to have you on board and and
I look forward to to keeptalking to you in in the
upcoming months.
Thanks, ignacio, I loved it.
Speaker 2 (54:45):
Well done to keep talking to you in the upcoming
months.
Thanks, ignacio, I loved it.
Well done the.
Speaker 1 (54:48):
Blunt Dollar is written, produced, hosted and
edited by me, ignacio Ramirez.
Everything you hear concept,script, sound design and
production comes straight frommy desk and, occasionally, my
kitchen table.
Thank you so much for listeningand join me in the next episode
of the Blunt Dollar for moreraw, honest finance
conversations.
What is the most shocking misconception about
personal finance?
Speaker 2 (00:04):
People do not understand the difference
between stocks, bonds and funds.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
It's that basic.
What's the biggest mistake thatpeople, and particularly retail
investors, make during thesevolatile?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
markets.
34% of adults have a minimumlevel of financial literacy, so
only one in three can pass abasic financial test.
There's a very dangerous gapdeveloping in the world.
There's actually a term forthis.
It's called the financialadvice gap.
Unless you have a certain levelof wealth, you are literally
shut out of wealth managementservices.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
If you could share one universal truth about money
that you think everyone shouldlive by what would it be?
That's a really good questionshould live by?
what would it be?
That's a really good question.
This is the Blunt Dollar withIgnacio Ramírez.
(00:55):
Hello everyone and welcome to anew episode of the Blunt Dollar
.
Today, we are super excited tohave Patrick de Batista on board
.
Patrick many of you may know him.
He's on a mission todemocratize and demystify
(01:17):
financial knowledge.
He's based in Malta.
He's a chartered financialanalyst, a certified public
accountant and seasonedfinancial educator with over 20
years of experience helpingindividuals and businesses
consolidate, grow and protecttheir finances.
Patrick has delivered well over200 financial workshops across
(01:38):
Europe and is a lecturer at theUniversity of Malta and other
business schools.
At the University of Malta andother business schools, she's a
regular contributor to leadingEuropean media and collaborates
with platforms like Loving Maltato create tailored financial
education videos that reachthousands, if not millions, in
2023,.
Patrick was also selected bythe government of Malta to lead
(02:01):
the country's nationalinitiative on money management
and retirement planning,delivering practical, actionable
financial content to peoplefrom all walks of life.
And, finally but not least,through his platform, finance4u
and his growing social mediapresence, patrick is breaking
barriers and making financialliteracy accessible to everyone.
(02:24):
Patrick, super excited to haveyou on board.
Welcome to the Blunt Dollar.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Thank you so much, Ignacio.
I'm blushing already.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
What an introduction.
I mean, I was preparing thosenotes, you know, for people that
are not familiarized with youand I was like, oh wow, he's
like he's a superstar in theworld of personal finance, so
excited to have you on board.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Thanks, it takes one to know one mate.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
So obviously, today we're going to be talking about
personal finance quite a lot,because that's your area of
expertise.
We're going to be talking aboutsocial media, about retail
investors many things to coverbut I'd like to start with
personal finance, obviously.
Well, you've worked with many,many people on different front
(03:11):
lines when it comes to financialeducation.
You've made many workshops, aswe were just saying.
Quite often you've encounteredshocking gaps in understanding
some things that people,surprisingly, may not be
familiarized with, such as howinterest works or confusing net
(03:32):
worth with income, and I'veheard you in the past say that
those moments reveal how poorlyfinancial literacy is integrated
in traditional education.
So my first question for you iswhat is the most shocking
misconception about personalfinance that you've encountered
in the past, and what does thatsay really about the need for
(03:53):
grassroots education?
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Well, straight to the point, Ignacio.
There are many, many shockingexamples, too many to mention.
The most deceivingly common oneis that people do not
understand the differencebetween stocks, bonds and funds.
(04:18):
It's that basic.
So if we look at the statisticsand that is where you kind of
pour over the detail and youstart understanding the the
gravity of the situation you'llfind that in the oecd, only um
34 percent of adults have aminimum level of financial
(04:38):
literacy, so only one in threecan pass a basic financial test.
And it is not surprising thatwe find these gaps in real life,
and I experienced them throughmy workshops and also through my
daily life followers andclients as well 34%.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
I mean that sounds insane, that's absolutely crazy.
So that 34% what does it alludeexactly?
To People that have basicallyzero financial knowledge, or
people that have a little bit ofknowledge but really when you
get to more specific stuff, theyreally don't understand the
nuances.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah.
So it's not specific at all.
It is a basic test.
Well, what for us would betermed as basic, such as how
would you define inflation?
Do you know what compoundingmeans?
It's a multiple choice.
And well, just today, actually,I was.
I was in a workshop andspeaking about compounding
(05:39):
another misconception a firm ofof accountants and these are
financially savvy people, right,and yet, and they do not
understand that, for example, abond, a bond does not compound.
You know when, when you receivethe interest in a through a
(06:01):
bond, when you receive the, thecoupon, then you're generally
receiving it in your bankaccount, whereas if you, for
example, invest in anaccumulating ETF or an
accumulating bond fund, then youwill experience the benefit of
compounding.
These little nuances add up andcontribute to what I term the
(06:24):
financial literacy crisis.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
And is that financial literacy crisis what made you
want to become a financialadvisor or a personal finance
guru in some way?
Like the frustration and therealization that there's such a
big gap?
Was it like what really pushedyou in that direction?
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah, so I was working for a long time in
business advisory.
I had a stint in private equityin malta, london, and I also
studied in spain, but luckily Istarted teaching and lecturing
from a relatively young age andI would see early on that people
of all levels professionalslike MBA candidates, ceos, hr
(07:12):
professionals, people of allkinds would struggle with what I
took for granted as basicfinancial knowledge or what we
as CFHR to holders would termhey, everybody should know these
, but you know again, terms likecompounding, terms like cash
flow, liquidity these were allterms which were unknown to them
(07:33):
and year after year you know Iteach mba program after mba
program and master's levels andthe same issues crop up.
So I thought right, 20 havepassed.
I'm sitting here in a corporatejob.
How audacious would it be tocombine my accounting, advisory
(07:55):
and teaching knowledge into oneoffering that actually makes an
impact on people's lives, and Ithink that's happening right now
?
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Amazing.
Yeah, I'm curious to dig alittle bit more into this
because obviously I mean in somesort of echo chamber, I'm a
fixed income advisor, I'msurrounded by professionals, so
obviously I have the feelingthat everyone knows about
financial markets and thoseterms that you were alluding to,
like compounding and interestand so on.
(08:25):
But the reality is thatprobably it's not the case, and
I guess that when you talk aboutthe general public, a lot of
people have wrong impressions orexpectations about what
investing is, what it takes tobe successful in investing, and
(08:45):
a lot of people I mean I'veheard you say in the past that
have very wrong expectationsabout how to become a
millionaire by certain ages andhave unhealthy comparisons that
result in them having very riskyfinancial behaviors.
So, in your opinion, what's themost harmful financial goal
(09:08):
that people tend to set forthemselves and how do you
specifically help them reframeit into something healthier?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
This is a very interesting one because, in my
view, the most harmful goal isnot having a goal.
My experience is people tend tothink of retirement as either
this fixed destination that youstumble upon when you're 65 and
(09:42):
the state magically waives apension which there's no
guarantee that's going to happenin the future, or some very
lofty, unattainable figure, say1 million euros, that is
completely unachievable to thebasic or, let's say, the common
or the normal individual.
(10:04):
And what I would say is let'simagine a world or an
educational system where wewould have a high level
retirement planner calculatingwhat it might take, using some
return assumptions, using a timehorizon, what it might take to
(10:27):
work towards a tangible figurethat would be a retirement goal.
It might not be at age 14,might be at age 16 or age 18,
but how much more helpful itwould be to teach people, using
figures, how to plan forretirement.
And it's never too early toplan for it.
That is part of, in my view,what goal setting could be.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
It's a bit of a paradox, because you say not
having a goal is the secret, butat the same time, you cannot
plan for retirement withouthaving some sort of specific
figure in mind, right?
So I guess the key is, at theend of the day, talking to a
professional and having more orless a path or a clear idea of
(11:12):
which direction to follow.
But I guess the key is, withoutbeing overly ambitious and
trying to be pragmatic andrealistic in some way, which
brings us to another question Iwanted to ask you.
I know you're a big literaturefan.
You've talked about a story ofJoseph Heller and his Catch-22
(11:36):
book.
That is a classic of Americanliterature.
Can you tell us why you I meanwhat is the anecdote that you
like to use when talking aboutthis book and how does it apply
to define what people strugglingto define as being enough for
(11:56):
them?
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Yeah.
So the story goes as follows,right?
So there's this lavish party inNew York sometime in the 1920s
let's say it was a GreatGatsby-style lavish party and
there is a hedge fund managerwho's hosting this party.
(12:19):
And there's Joseph Heller, whoI believe was the author of
Catch-22, and there's someoneelse, his friend the name
escapes me right now and JosephHeller's friend, right, the
author of Catch-22, josephHeller.
His friend tells him did youknow that this hedge fund
(12:40):
manager, this guy, earned morein one day than you ever did
from your book Catch-22.
And Joseph Heller turns to himand tells him well, that might
be true, but I have something hewill never have enough Enough.
(13:02):
And this is a struggle I findwith today's world, that one
besides the general lack ofeducation and're bombarded with
instant gratification, and thatinstant gratification means that
(13:37):
we crave more and more and more.
And what really is enough?
Where do we stop?
Where do we draw a line?
Stop, where do we draw a line?
So it might be good toarticulate and say, hey, what is
the baseline level of income,what is the baseline level of
wealth that I need to achieve tobe happy?
(13:58):
And whether you achieve that,as you say, with a financial
advisor, which would befantastic.
You achieve that, as you say,with a financial advisor, which
is would be fantastic, or onyour own, then I feel that you
still need to question andunderstand you yourself one,
what you want, and two, whatyour financial advisor is
(14:18):
feeding you.
And on that note, there's avery dangerous gap developing in
the world.
There's actually a term forthis, it's called the financial
advice gap wherein, at least inmy country, unless you have a
certain level of wealth, you areliterally shut out of the
wealth management servicesbecause, of course, you know
(14:44):
financial financial firms,investment firms have their kyc,
have the regulation, and sothey wouldn't be able to onboard
you profitably, and that isunderstandable.
So the onus is on us to tolearn and manage our financial
futures provided we don't have amassive war just to invest.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
It's almost like a philosophical question, I guess.
So a part of your job almostbecomes like being a life coach,
because defining what is enoughis such a subjective question,
like it varies widely from oneone person to another, and even
like if you ask the same personat different moments in time,
(15:30):
they they could give you, theywill possibly give you like very
different answers.
Um, so I'm, yeah, I'm, I wouldlove to see you in action in an
actual session one day to to seehow, how that that whole thing
out.
But thanks for the analogy.
I think it's very relevant and,being an avid reader myself, I
haven't read Catch-22, but Ithink I'll have to put it in my
(15:52):
reading list now you must read.
A lot of the people that youtalk to are young people, gen Z
and millennials, which are in avery difficult spot, I'd argue,
right now, because on one side,they're facing like rising
housing costs, stagnant wages,student debt and so on, and on
(16:15):
the other hand, they're oftencriticized for their spending
habits, for indulging inluxuries like an avocado toast
or traveling and seekingexperiences and things like that
.
So there's a little bit of amisconception about these
younger generations when itcomes to finance, because on one
side, some people feel they'rea bit disconnected or oblivious
(16:38):
to financial knowledge, but youhave said in the past that it is
not true actually, that thisgeneration is thirsty for
learning, for becoming better inpersonal finance.
It's just that we need to finda way to showcase the
information to them in anaccessible, digestible,
tech-savvy way.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
So my question for you is in your opinion, what is
the best way to communicate withyounger generations about
finance and their financialfuture?
Ignacio, I am a big fan of yourcontent.
I love it.
I try to replicate or I try tocreate similar content myself in
my own way, and I believe thatwe're currently facing a bit of
(17:34):
a crossroads, at least in mycountry.
I think.
Throughout the whole of Europe,gen Z spend more time in the
virtual world than they do inthe real world.
52% of Gen Z get theirfinancial advice from TikTok.
(17:56):
Now, herein lies thecontroversy.
You and I both know that weneed to be very careful how to
speak, especially aboutinvestments.
We are bound by a code ofethics, we are regulated and we
cannot just give out investmentadvice, but, at the same time,
(18:19):
we need to create engagingcontent that resonates with
today's generation.
Unfortunately, yes, you and I doexist, but still there remains
a large swath of creators withdubious intentions, questionable
(18:42):
qualifications and outright,sometimes malicious intentions,
who are engaging and are catchy,and these people tend to come
from jurisdictions like the US,maybe Asia, wherein they would
not fall under the regulatorycap of the European Union, and
(19:03):
this is who we're competingagainst.
I cannot compete against theseindividuals, but this is what
the algorithm is feeding.
So the question remains howwill regulators, how will the
powers that be up top, how willthe powers that be up top
(19:27):
incorporate engaging financialeducation, engaging financial
educators to be able to speak inan engaging manner, without, of
course, giving investmentadvice and give us the guidance
to say things the way we shouldsay them?
What do you think about this?
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Hey there, quick favor to ask If you enjoy the
blunt dollar, the unfilteredtakes, the stories and the
laughs.
The easiest way to support theshow is by tapping that
subscribe button right now,while you're listening.
And here's my promise If you do, I'll keep bringing you honest
conversations, freshperspectives and the kind of
finance talk that's engaging,insightful and worth your time.
(20:04):
Thanks so much for being hereand let's keep these great
finance conversations going Well.
I actually have very strongopinions on this.
I collaborated with the CFAInstitute in the past concerning
a report they wrote aboutinfluencers, which to me it's
still a bit of a weird word.
To be honest, personally, Idon't consider myself an
(20:27):
influencer.
I like to write content aboutfinance, that's all.
But I guess there's differentthings.
First of all, a lot of contentcreators especially because of
what you said, because theydon't come from the industry and
don't know the regulations andthe risk and so on associated to
(20:49):
them are doing or committingfraud or providing financial
advice without really realizingit.
And I think if anyone isconsidering creating content
(21:12):
online, that's the first thingthat they should really take
into consideration educatethemselves and be aware of what
they can and cannot do.
And secondly, there's obviouslythe consumers right, like the
people that read all thisinformation online.
Clearly we need to protect them.
(22:09):
No-transcript these issues,which is also the most
complicated one, would be tohave all the financial
regulators across the globesitting down around a massive
table with the.
How many countries do we havein the world 200 and something I
(22:30):
believe publish financialcontent online so that they know
what they can and what theycan't not do, because money is
not a game.
It's a very serious matter andwe need to make sure that
everyone is aware of what shouldbe feasible and whatnot.
(22:55):
But yeah, for anyone reallywishing to dig more into that
topic, I recommend theFinfluencer Report from the CFA
Institute.
Just type on Google CFAInstitute Finfluencer Report and
it's very well written andthere's a lot of insight in
there.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
That's true.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
So obviously that brings us inevitably to the
question of retail investors andsocial media and platforms like
Robinhood and so on that havemade accessible financial
markets to a lot of people,which is great news, but has
also introduced the concept ofgamification, like the famous
(23:34):
confetti animation for tradesand so on that, in some
instances, can push people tobehave impulsively in some way,
and you've highlighted in thepast that these kind of things
have often confused investorsbecause they were not really
(23:54):
understanding the risk they weretaking.
So my question for you is doyou think the majority of retail
investors really understand therisk they're taking when
they're investing, or are theybeing misled by platforms that
are basically using gamificationfor investing?
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Well, the short answer is no.
I don't think investors trulyunderstand the risk that they're
taking at large.
What I know for sure is thatpeople with apps like Robinhood
traded up to nine times morethan traditional brokerages in
(24:34):
the US, and yet the averageindividual investor
underperformed the market by1.5% every single year.
Now, from my perspective,statistics like those defeat the
purpose of democratizinginvesting, because here we are
(24:56):
sat in 2025 where we haveinvesting at our fingertips, but
this is not what we signed upfor.
We did not sign up for trading,nor gambling.
There's a massive difference.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Again.
You're throwing out someinteresting stats there.
I didn't know that REITinvestors trade nine times more
than before and that they'remaking one and a half percent
less on average because of allthis gamification.
I mean, I guess differentstudies will show different
stats, but the message is maybea portion of the population is
(25:37):
trading more than they should.
I have a little bit of adifferent view to you when it
comes to all of these.
I think having access to allthese tools is great.
I definitely prefer a worldwhere people have access to
financial markets than not, andI guess you know each of us has
also like a responsibility ineducating himself and
(26:01):
understanding what they're doing.
Um, I think really the, the,the key would be like yeah, none
of these platforms trying tomislead investors and which I
don't think it's the case reallyand and most of the investors
simply spending a little bitmore time understanding what
they're doing.
I think that's the key, insteadof following the crowds or
(26:27):
being subject to emotionaldecision-making, which is
another thing I wanted to askyou about.
From what you're telling us,your long-term investor and your
strategy consists in trying toreduce the noise as much as
possible.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Correct.
Correct strategy consists intrying to reduce the noise as
much as possible.
Correct, correct.
You know I'm not interested intapping the alpha, so to speak.
I'm happy with the beta.
Or, you know, for those whodon't understand, I'm happy with
the market return achievingthat.
You know I have other things todo with my time.
I have my business.
I'll generate, generate myalpha through my own business,
(27:02):
you know, through the size,premium and this, that sort of
thing of my small business.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
So, and maybe to close up this section on retail
investors, obviously we've seena lot of new things happening in
the space, new technologiespopping up.
What do you think is next forretail investing?
What are we likely to see inthe next 10 years?
Speaker 2 (27:30):
I published an article in the FT Advisor about
this topic More from the angleof the advisor, because people
are asking, like you know, withall these robo advisors, with ai
and with this tech coming in,is the financial advisor, is the
(27:52):
role of the financial advisorgonna remain relevant?
And my answer to that was 100%.
I believe that we don't tapenough into the emotional and
psychological aspects of moneymanagement.
To give an example, 30% ofpeople think about their
(28:13):
personal finances while at work.
Deloitte said that 90% say thatmoney impacts their daily
stress levels.
Now notice how none of thesestudies say investors are
concerned about the sharp ratioof their portfolios or the
volatility or this or that.
So next time we're meetingclients, instead of going on
(28:37):
about portfolio performanceportfolio performance why not
listen to what clients are trulysaying?
Because instead of long-termtime horizon, perhaps they're
saying I want to fund mychildren's university education,
or instead of saying returnsaren't high enough might be
(28:58):
called for, it's getting toolate for me to pursue my dreams.
Can we look into that sort ofelement in our work, the
emotional element, rather thansolely the portfolio management
one?
Speaker 1 (29:15):
And have you seen any exciting projects that are
trying to tap that space at themoment?
Speaker 2 (29:22):
projects that are trying to tap that space at the
moment.
Yeah, so in my country there isthis drive I started it for
financial coaching, financialeducation and financial coaching
, and that looks at money andfinance, one from a behavioral
perspective and two from amentorship angle.
(29:42):
So for those people who areunderserved or unable to tap
into financial advice, there'sfinancial education.
They could.
That could get them to start tostart saving, building an
emergency fund and understandingwhat the options are.
From an educational perspective, because, like you said, it's
(30:04):
up to the individual.
Up to the individual to makethat decision and to learn.
The onus is on us.
So having a coach guiding youis exactly that You're the
player in the football pitch andyour coach is simply guiding
you.
I think this is a going to be aan increasing trend going
(30:28):
forward yeah, I'm excited aboutthat.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
I I'm also really looking forward to see which
degree of personalization we canget through technology, because
, at the end of the day, I thinkthink the secret really lies
there, whenever you're readingany content online, figuring out
how does it apply to yourspecific circumstances and
whether it has value or not toyour specific portfolio and I'm
(30:52):
very keen on seeing new startupsand companies trying to work on
that and integrate at the sametime, with the help of
technology, all the behavioralfinance aspects that you were
alluding to.
Yeah, correct.
So I want to go now again tothe topic of influencers or
finance content creators,because obviously it's a topic
(31:16):
that is very close to both ofour hearts.
I'm only present on LinkedIn,really.
I know you're on differentplatforms.
My first question for you ishow can these social media
platforms really strike abalance between encouraging all
this type of finance content andcracking down on harmful
(31:37):
misinformation?
Is it even their responsibilityor not?
And if it is, what could theydo in?
Speaker 2 (31:50):
order to regulate or moderate a little bit this space
?
Oh man, I think about thisquestion every single day.
You know you are on LinkedIn,you're very popular on LinkedIn
and luckily, luckily, that is aplatform for professionals where
you know you show your name, soprobably that is, that is a a
(32:10):
plus in terms of transparency,so people don't hide behind
their keyboards, behind theirname.
And the more I ask thisquestion, the more I realize I
don't know the answer.
All I know is that, yes,ideally, ideally we'd all sit
together, at least the majorregulators in the world US, uk,
(32:34):
eu, at the very least and comeup with some sort of policy to
enforce or crack down or promote, even promote, qualified
content creators, because wetend to at least in the EU, I
believe that we tend to give anegative slant towards
regulation.
(32:55):
We tend to, in my view, regulatea lot.
We focus, let's say we focus onregulation.
So what if we, as regulators,classified what qualified
(33:16):
content creators look like,worked with them, helped them
and together joined forces andpromoted this content, because
together we're stronger?
As things stand I hate to saythis, but at least on TikTok and
Instagram to a lesser extent,linkedin, whenever my content
(33:40):
comes up, say on tiktok.
Chances are the next couple ofvideos are going to be some
random stranger, normally fromthe us, who is of a questionable
character, dubious intentions.
Hell, I even have an imposteron t on TikTok promoting a
crypto scam in my name.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
There's a lot of work to do.
Yeah, it's interesting.
(34:31):
I guess we're all learningalong the way, but for sure
there needs to be some sort ofcoordinated effort in order to
make the space safer because, asthings stand out, there's
definitely a lot of dangers whenit comes to the type ofifying
content that can lead to realharm.
Hey there, quick ad break.
Do you work in the financeindustry and have a genuinely
(34:53):
interesting story to share?
I'm always on the hunt forgreat guests who bring raw,
unfiltered insights to the table, or maybe you know someone with
a story worth telling.
Please put us in touch.
You can reach out to medirectly via LinkedIn.
I'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
And now back to the show.
That's a really good question.
It's all of the above pluspromoting products, say
investing platforms or funds orwhatever.
Where there is a monetarybenefit, it, yes, uh, there is
(35:46):
probably the second.
The second factor is the mostprominent, at least that I see
wherein you'd find these contentcreators who promise financial
freedom.
You know they're sitting on abeach and learn how to trade
with me and become rich everyday, when, if you read through
the content, then you'd see thatthis is nothing but either
(36:06):
network marketing or, at worst,it's a pyramid scheme.
I believe that these people,their advantage is they have
strength in numbers.
These people, their advantageis they have strength in numbers
.
No-transcript well.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Thanks for the thanks for, for, for, uh, for the
compliment there.
No man, you know you're good.
I really, I really appreciateum, trying to learn and trying
to get better every day.
That's the only thing I know.
But, um, yeah, it's, uh, it's,it's definitely work in progress
.
Each platform has their ownflair.
Personally, what I like aboutlinkedin is, yeah, I feel the
debate is a little bit more um,civilized and and people know
(37:08):
who you are and your degree ofability, and that's why I feel
most identified with.
But I guess the underlyingmessage here is that there is a
lot of value coming from socialmedia platforms.
There's a lot of knowledge, alot of intel, a lot of quality
stuff, because we're onlytalking about the bad stuff,
right.
But the reason why I'm on theseplatforms is because I learned
so much from other people,people with whom I would usually
(37:32):
don't have the chance to, to,to exchange, you know, and, and
for me, it's, it's, it'sdefinitely a source of very
valuable information.
Plus, let's not forget that noteveryone can have access to a
Bloomberg terminal or even to asubscription to the FT.
So I understand why people goto social media to seek
(37:53):
information.
But, again, it's aboutseparating what's good from bad,
separating the quality stufffrom the noise, and really
making a good use of it, andthat's by no means an easy task.
I think it's only going to getworse, actually, with the
arrival of AI and all thisAI-generated content, because
there's going to be more andmore posts out there, more
(38:16):
production, and it's just goingto magnify this whole thing.
So we definitely need to dosomething about all this as soon
as possible.
Yeah, please.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Sorry, no, no, go ahead.
Yeah, we have access to themost information we ever had.
Last I checked was that there'smore data in the past two years
than there ever was ever inhistory.
That's beautiful and scaryExactly.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
So, talking about TikTok, like I've never really
had a viral hit, but you you did, so I wanted to ask you uh, can
you share with our audiencewhat your viral um video was
about on tiktok and, inhindsight, why do you think it
went viral?
What does it tell you aboutwhat your audience is is looking
(39:08):
for?
Speaker 2 (39:08):
and, yeah, just your overall thoughts on this yeah
agreed so it was a the end of aday in summer.
I was still in my corporate job, I was tired, it was a bad day
at the office, so I went out fora pizza, to you know, drown my
(39:29):
sorrows and I was gonna go backhome.
I didn't feel like recordinganything and my friend who was
with me at the time, she's likeit's just one minute, let's
record it, okay, fine, I waswalking my dog, I was waiting
for him to, you know, do hisbusiness, like okay, so let's
(39:54):
record it.
And this was a video of thingsI wish I did in my 20s.
Something like that and givingtips Like I wish I started
investing early.
I wish I invested inexperiences rather than you know
things.
I wish I bought a smallproperty rather than you know,
(40:14):
rather than rent it, for example.
And uh, I don't understand why,but it went completely viral.
I, it took me one minute torecord that video and this went
viral.
And then I have videos that Ispend like 20 hours editing and
painstakingly scripting that arefree, by the way.
Like you, you create freecontent, free value, and they
(40:36):
don't do anywhere near as well.
And that tells me that today'sgeneration and people at large,
it's not a generational thing.
What we want is authenticity.
We don't want soullessinstitutions.
People buy from people.
(40:59):
Premier League, which is themost powerful football league in
the world.
Football clubs in the EnglishPremier League have a combined
following of 200 million people,while Cristiano Ronaldo on his
own has 1 billion, which leadsme to think that people want
(41:22):
content from real people,genuine people.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
So you felt that that video resonated with your
audience just because they insome way identified themselves
with you and the problems youwere sharing, and it was
basically relatable and it camefrom an actual person rather
than just some random entity.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Exactly, and I was like talking fast.
I wasn't used to editing orcreating videos For me.
Looking at it now, it's acrappy video man, but probably
someone who's normal, you knowwho's just like.
Looking at this, he's like, oh,that guy's just like me.
You probably passed.
I probably passed from thatstreet as well, so I could
relate.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
Yeah, that's the beauty and the curse of social
media Like you never know what'sgoing to work and what is not,
and often the things that workthe best are definitely not the
ones where you've put the mostwork.
I was thinking about my ownexperiences when you said that.
Yeah, sometimes I made postswhere I'm pouring my heart into.
(42:24):
I'm like this is the best thingI've written in my whole life.
This is so smart.
And then you get like threeviews and then another day
you're super tired, you don'tknow what to do.
You do something like superquick in like five minutes and
all of a sudden it goes throughthe roof and you're like okay, I
don't understand anythinganymore.
But yeah, that's a wholedifferent topic how the
(42:45):
algorithm works.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Is there an example of a video or I don't know a
post whatever that wentcompletely viral and maybe
didn't put enough effort in itFrom my own?
Speaker 1 (42:58):
content you mean.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
I mean, as I was saying, I never really had like
truly viral content.
I mean, I guess it depends onhow you define viral, but in
linkedin I'm talking about maybefive digits, uh, engagements.
So 10 000 likes and above.
I had a few at three, fourthousand, which was nice, but
(43:22):
truly viral I would say it's 10000 and above.
I never had those.
But I can say like, especiallyat the beginning, um, I was, I
was putting a lot of work on onmy pieces.
It was almost like newspaperarticles, like in-depth research
about I don't know the ukeconomy.
Why is it slowing down?
And and I would imagine it asan ft piece and I would spend
(43:46):
maybe seven or eight hours andwriting a lot of stuff and
really like flopping.
And then the day afterwards,after being frustrated with that
, I would just be like, okay,you know what?
I'm just going to do threelines summarizing what happened
yesterday in the market, with anice image and all of a sudden
that would work well and there'sno real reason.
(44:11):
I, I I try not to think toomuch about this because you know
vanity metrics are are bad foryou if you're, if you're on
social media, uh, because you'regonna get a lot more
frustrations than good days.
I would say you just need totry to embrace the journey and
enjoy the people you're meetingalong the way.
(44:32):
I mean, I don't think we wouldbe having this conversation
today if it wasn't for LinkedIn.
(45:00):
No-transcript, oh no, verytimely and a little bit complex
and try to simplify that, orstuff related to storytelling,
where I talk about a famousfinance profile and their story
and and why I admire them in insome way, which brings us to to
(45:21):
what you were saying before,that people like to consume from
other people and and and theylove stories and so on.
But yeah, if I, if I get a morespecific answer or I find the
magic formula, I'll let you know, because I don't know.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
I'd like to also give a shout out to all those
creators like you who aresharing knowledge.
This is free value, man like.
Imagine we were young, right,at least I don't know how old
you are, but you're probablyyounger than me, but in my 20s,
yes, we had the internet, but wealways, like, resorted to
(45:56):
periodicals or journals or youknow, boring long articles.
We never had free content from,from people in the trenches
like us.
You're producing all of this.
You're doing it for free, youknow.
Guys follow Ignacio.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
Thanks, I appreciate that and follow Patrick also.
He's also producing a lot ofvery high quality content.
Looking at the future, I wantedto ask you also about AI,
because obviously everyone istalking about this trend at the
moment.
Do you think AI is going toreplace Patrick in I don't know,
(46:35):
five, ten years down the road,or are you irreplaceable forever
?
Speaker 2 (46:42):
Well, I think one of me is more than enough in this
world, mate.
Well, I think one of me is morethan enough in this world, mate
.
I'd like to think that, justlike you know, we had tractors
replacing people in the agrarianrevolution, or we had the steam
(47:03):
engine replacing others in theindustrial revolution, Now we
have the information age.
Right, you have the AI age.
I'd like to think thatqualities like empathy, which is
something I'm very big on andsomething that seems to resonate
with people, as a finance bro,people seem to love the fact
(47:26):
that I speak or I'm wearing awhite t-shirt and I'm talking
like a normal, decent person,not, in final, speak with an
empathic mindset.
I think qualities like thatwill stand the test of time, but
(47:49):
I could be wrong For the timebeing For the time being.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
Yeah, I'm excited, you know I'm excited.
I mean, everyone that knows meknows that I love to talk about
AI.
I'm an optimist, but I think weare not even realizing how
powerful this is going to be.
I read this sentence a coupleof days ago that we tend to
overestimate the impact or howfar technology can go on the
(48:17):
short term and underestimate iton the long term, and I think
we're definitely not reallyrealizing how far all of this is
going to take us.
I mean, I tend to agree withyou, by the way, I feel empathy
is going to be the thing that isgoing to be hardest to be
replaced by machines.
But again, I think we cannoteven comprehend or imagine how
(48:40):
the AI agents and machines androbots of the future are going
to look like and how human-likethey're going to be.
And I guess at some point yeah,I, I can completely see how,
maybe like 50 years down theroad you go to your, your bank
which could be physical oronline and there's a, an ai
(49:02):
agent actually answering all ofyour questions uh, instead of an
actual person, and making useof a lot of empathy, as we were
saying, not just in a veryrobotic fashion, so I'm excited
about it.
I think there's going to be alot of disruption in the space
and, as a finance professional,I want to become part of that
(49:24):
change and that's why I alwaystry to stay updated with
everything happening, playingaround with the tools, and my
advice for our listeners anyonein the industry, any industry
really, but particularly infinance is you got to roll up
your sleeves and use these toolsand stay updated, because
change is coming, change forgood, but things are very likely
(49:47):
going to change and and um, andthe sooner you you start, the
better, um, but that's again my,my personal view.
I know a lot of people thinkdifferently, um, but you know,
uh the uh.
Speaker 2 (50:02):
John maynard keynes, the, the famous economist in the
1920s.
People say he got it completelywrong when he said that in 100
years which is around about now,or in, I think it was, 80 years
he said that technology isgoing to advance so much that
people would work less, end upnot even working and spend money
(50:23):
on enjoyment and leisure andfun, which is, of course, not
what we ended up doing.
We ended up as finance peopledoing exactly the opposite.
We created work out of nothing,but some part of me seems to
add credence to John MaynardKeynes that perhaps he was not
(50:43):
so wrong.
After all, will AI facilitateour life?
Will AI enable us to worksmarter and not harder?
Perhaps now I'm starting tobelieve him a bit more.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
Maybe he was not so far from the truth.
Good point.
So we're getting close to theend.
I have a couple more questions,a bit more maybe philosophical,
I guess.
But first of all, if you couldshare one universal truth about
money that you think everyoneshould live by, what would it be
(51:18):
?
Speaker 2 (51:19):
Pay yourself first Before you pay anyone else, so
say, I don't know, you earn asalary.
What do people usually do?
They receive their salary andthey start paying their mortgage
, their rent, their groceries,this and that, and then if
there's something left at theend of the month, then they'd
(51:41):
keep it for themselves.
So they save what's left afterspending rather than spend
what's left after saving.
Speaker 1 (51:49):
So I guess, yeah, what you're saying also is being
a little bit intentional withwhat you earn and proactive,
especially when it comes tofinance.
Yeah, 100%, which brings us alittle bit to your viral TikTok
video.
But what's a financial lessonyou wish you had learned earlier
(52:12):
in your career and that youwould love our listeners to be
aware of?
Wow man.
Speaker 2 (52:20):
Yeah, I hope the CFA Institute won't scold us for
this, but you know, you and I,we went through the ringer.
We did our master's degrees, westudied, we did our Studied for
our exams At least.
I studied, I studied, studied,studied, studied, studied, and
(52:41):
then did not implement anythingof what I studied in practice.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
So I mean that's a good point not implement
anything of what they studied inpractice.
So I mean that's a good point.
I think you know, like thetheory part, like I think it's
great, I don't think it was abad thing.
I always say that an investmentin education always pays the
best interest.
So I'd argue that you becominga CFA charter holder or doing
your finance studies probably isearning you more interest than
(53:07):
what you would have gotten fromthat index fund.
Quite honest.
But what I do agree with you isyou need to put things in
motion.
And the theory is great, butit's like creating a company or
a startup right, I'm not anexpert on the field if you can
have the best ideas, but if youdon't implement them, then
(53:29):
they're worth zero.
And I guess this is the samething.
You can learn about finance asmuch as you want, but at the end
of the day, you need to dosomething with that knowledge.
And when it comes to yourpersonal finance, you can read
as much as you want and plan andso on, but at the end of the
day, you got to put thatknowledge in practice and you
got to do something.
So yeah, start investing earlyand let the magic of compounding
(53:55):
do the rest, which, as many ofyou know, albert Einstein once
labeled as the eighth wonder ofthe world and that, yeah, I
think that's a great wrap up forthis conversation.
Patrick, thank you so much forcoming to the show.
It's been an absolute pleasuretalking to you on the Blunt
Dollar.
(54:16):
I mean, I think you're thefirst person we have on board
talking about personal finance.
I thought it was veryinsightful.
I really appreciate that.
Again, for those of you thatdon't know Patrick, make sure,
uh, to check him out on onsocials.
For those of you that know him,make sure to follow him.
And, patrick, best of luck forthis year.
(54:37):
Um, it's been an absolute honorto to have you on board and and
I look forward to to keeptalking to you in in the
upcoming months.
Thanks, ignacio, I loved it.
Speaker 2 (54:45):
Well done to keep talking to you in the upcoming
months.
Thanks, ignacio, I loved it.
Well done the.
Speaker 1 (54:48):
Blunt Dollar is written, produced, hosted and
edited by me, ignacio Ramirez.
Everything you hear concept,script, sound design and
production comes straight frommy desk and, occasionally, my
kitchen table.
Thank you so much for listeningand join me in the next episode
of the Blunt Dollar for moreraw, honest finance
conversations.
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