April 21, 2025 • 53 mins
Hi it's Ashley. On this week's Pod, The Needling Editor Lex Vaughn joins Hannah and me on the couch to talk about circumcision, safe porn consumption sites, Governor Robert Ferguson's toddler like instinct to say no to all proposed taxes, and the latest misdeeds of the Seattle Police Department. If you have any thoughts or opinions about our thoughts and opinions, feel free to call us at (571) IT BURNS Or (571) 482-8767.
Links:
Taylor Shellfish Farms Introduces New Easier-to-Clean Geoducks | The Needling
Mayor Harrell Debated Sweeps with Advisors in AOL Group Chat Accidentally Shared with City Reporter Hannah Krieg | The Needling
Senate Ways & Means Committee Lowers Wealth Tax Rate From 1% To .034% | The Burner Seattle
Bodycam video of viral police beating shows officers instantly escalate | DivestSPD
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
All right.
(00:01):
Okay, we do need a little bit ofchatter still.
No, I can pull it from what wejust did.
That was a little good.
Wait, what?
Oh, we were recording that.
Oh.
Oh, weren't you recording that?
I was.
I just didn't know that was partof it.
We don't have to do that.
No, it was good.
But we, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Go for it.
Go for it.
UNKNOWN (00:20):
That's a cool open.
SPEAKER_00 (00:26):
I'm Hannah Krieg.
And this is the Burner Podcast,where we talk shit on this
couch.
And they talk shit on fakeaccounts.
And this week, for the veryfirst time ever, we have a
guest.
Please welcome to the pod,publisher, editor, creator,
maintainer of the needling.
Sales only real fake news.
Happy to be here.
(00:48):
Pulitzer Prize winner, which Ialways forget until I listen to
our sister podcast.
I do love how much Crystal islike, she's a Pulitzer Prize
winner.
I covered the Oh So Mudslide.
Oh, classic.
Breaking news.
(01:10):
Iconic Pulitzer poll.
This is a mudslide we talk aboutin school.
Hung out in Darrington.
I mean, it's always weirdtalking about a Pulitzer Prize
winner because it sounds cool,but I'm the person who reported
on something really sad.
It's not like Kendrick Lamar'sPulitzer.
(01:31):
Yeah, it's really not.
But it is a cool thing to put onyour resume.
I do try to like bump that asmuch as i can yeah
unapologetically what's yourclaim to it how did you what was
well i was like out inderrington like reporting from
like morning to night oh my godon it for like two weeks that's
(01:54):
crazy like non-stop it was anall-day thing definitely well
and now you put uh gooey duckdicks up on exactly uh yeah
honestly the highest form ofyeah yeah that that last year
that was my last year of realreal journalism for that reason
(02:16):
i was like i want to write aboutgooey ducks forever now sorry
i'm done with mass death i wouldlike to not be in this as much
anymore uh okay well i'll sayreally quick that like uh i love
the needling i love you um thisis our uh third time recording
(02:38):
our podcast and and the firsttwo will never be heard.
The joke is, everyone, we havealready recorded this podcast,
and then the audio went away, sonow we are re-recording this
podcast, and it's gonna, thelost track, we're gonna always
know about the lost track.
And you guys missed a lot ofgood content.
You'll never know our opinionson circumcision.
(03:01):
Yeah, it was a really hotconversation.
We actually called every bitchout.
Especially the seattle bikeblock yeah oh my gosh and you'll
never know what we have to sayabout you We would have you up
in sweats.
It was messy.
(03:21):
It was uncensored.
And you're never going to hearit.
Should I say I'm kidding?
No.
Stand by it.
So I think I mentioned alreadymy favorite needling currently.
Yeah, I mean, the image isenough.
But the headline is TaylorShellfish Farms introduces new,
easier to clean, gooey decks.
(03:42):
And for me, the joke is justthat, like...
The idea that like...
People circumcise even fornon-religious reasons still
because of excuses like it'seasier to clean, which I just
think is hilarious.
The idea that it's that hard topull back that tiny bit of skin.
(04:03):
When I'm dealing with what I gotdown here, it's not that hard.
It's not that hard.
We're not cutting lips, you knowwhat I mean?
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, some people are, andthat's fine.
Don't do that.
Yeah.
But, yeah.
We might cut that.
Oh! You're going to circumciseyour own podcast.
Make it like everybody else's.
(04:26):
Hannah, do you have a favoriteneedling article you want to...
I do.
I do.
I love your...
Because it's about me.
Of course.
I think it was last month,maybe, the Needling posted a
story.
Mayor Harold debated sweeps withadvisors in AOL group chat,
accidentally shared with cityreporter Hannah Krieg.
(04:47):
Yeah.
And that was so sweet.
So many people sent that to me,like, oh, my God, you're in the
Needling.
You've made it.
I'm like, I have.
I've arrived.
Yeah, I mean, I was excitedabout the burner starting and
the excitement was all worth it.
I mean, you've done anincredible job these first two
weeks.
Thank you.
I appreciate that.
(05:08):
I'm so happy you guys are backin action.
You can't get rid of us.
Were you shocked that we cameback?
Well, no, because we told you.
Not at all, yeah.
No, like, it's like...
No, but, like, seriously, it's,like, I really, you know, I'm so
glad you guys are passionateenough about journalism and,
(05:30):
like, local politics that, like,nothing can hold you back from,
like, continuing to do thiswork, which is, like, really
needed, you know?
See, that should be our openingquestion for podcast guests.
Did you miss us?
Did you miss us?
Did you think we were going tocome back?
What do you think happened inJanuary?
It's just a year-long podcast,and what do you think happened?
(05:53):
No answers, just questions.
Just questions.
You only get answers if youdonate$5,000.
We'll come and tell you.
That's a solid fundraising.
I ain't told to it, people.
Well, before we get into ourfirst segment, we just want to
(06:13):
do a little housekeepingreminder that by the time you're
listening to this, it's going tobe your last opportunity or the
day before your last opportunityto get those ballots in on that
special election that came in.
in your mailbox.
It's a vote no on renewing theKing County fingerprint levy.
Yeah, and only nerds vote yes.
Only nerds vote.
Only losers vote.
(06:34):
Only bootlicking nerds.
Yeah.
Go fuck a cop then.
Basically.
Why do you want to get fingeredby a cop so bad?
Why are you such a follower?
You really went for it.
I was just going to call them abunch of followers.
Not thinking about what they'redoing.
That's probably better.
(06:55):
That's probably a safer place togo.
And also, we'll put this at theend of the pod, but if you do
have opinions or thoughts aboutour opinions or thoughts, feel
free to leave them in ourhotmail or our hotline, that's
what it's called.
Our hotmail account.
(07:16):
Our Yahoo.
It's like even more Our hotline,which is 571-IT-BURNS.
571-IT-BURNS.
Comments, questions, all thatstuff.
Go ahead and leave it in ourvoicemail instead of...
Give it to us as content.
That's what we need it as.
Yeah, yeah.
It's going to be on the pod.
We'll do a voice modulation.
You'll sound like somethingweird, but...
(07:38):
It's going to be on the pod.
100%.
Unless you want your voice.
You just tell us what you want.
We'll do what you want.
But it's 571-IT-BURNS or571-482-8767.
We want to hear from you.
We want to hear from you.
All right.
Okay.
That's housekeeping.
Let's get into our first guestsegment.
You feeling, you got energy,Lex?
Let's go.
Let's go.
(07:58):
All right.
This is Hot Takes.
We're going to give youheadlines and we want to hear
your hottest, most immediatetakes.
First headline.
Seattle has nation's smallestnew apartments.
UNKNOWN (08:10):
Hmm.
SPEAKER_00 (08:10):
That's horrible.
Is it?
But not all the way horrible.
I don't want to be in one ofthem, but that does mean there's
maybe more housing here.
That's true.
I mean, but it's also likemystifying because I just I
don't think of Seattle as havingthe smallest apartments.
Like, doesn't New York City havea speed on that?
(08:33):
All those$800 like apartments,though.
I love.
Here's the thing.
I would hate to live in one ofthose.
I do disagree.
I think people need a little ori mean i do agree i think people
need a little more space i lovethe word apartments yeah it was
very smart a very smartmarketing thing and honestly i
think for people who are i don'tknow maybe in college or just
(08:54):
like getting their first job inseattle like it's not that big
of a deal to live in that kindof thing but it can't be the
norm and i am afraid of thatbeing like yeah i agree it's
like i wouldn't I don't advocatefor any housing I wouldn't live
in.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I have pretty low standards.
I live in a basement, so...
All right.
(09:14):
Okay.
Next one.
We left a miserable life inSeattle, moved back to Chicago.
No regrets.
That's hilarious.
I, like, I just...
It's so funny.
Like, I...
It's pathetic when people try acity for just a year and they're
like, that's it.
We didn't get all of our...
I don't know.
We didn't totally build acommunity or whatever, get
(09:35):
whatever dream that they had ina year.
I think every time I've moved toa big city, it takes way more
than a year to settle in.
Yeah.
Also, how dorky to go onBusiness Insider and write about
how I couldn't make friends andit was cold and I...
it's a mommy like that'sactually really embarrassing for
(09:55):
the diaries and you knowarguably part of a conspiracy to
just keep people out of seattlethat's been going for a long
time yeah because like againbecause it's on the lost track
people won't have it but weliterally saw another one but it
was a new york it was like agirl was like i was living here
for a year we got a compile ofthese yeah see the through line
(10:19):
um all right okay washingtonstate my loose Oh my gosh.
Yeah, it's going to be like amajor case of like...
like, very highly prejudicedpolicing, I think.
Because, like, this city'spretty uptight about, like,
(10:40):
using drugs and, like, well,doing anything kind of dirty out
in public, I think.
I mean, even though, okay, I'llgive the city credit.
Nudity's legal everywhere.
But when it comes to substances,like, this place seems kind of
uptight.
And also, it's like, everybodyfreaks out about, like, fentanyl
on the buses.
It's an enclosed space.
(11:02):
i think that there is some likeweird double standard where like
we don't treat alcohol i i lovei had never really like heard
this argument really said a lotwhen i was living anywhere other
than here but i love that peoplesay like alcohol is a drug too
like it is yeah and the factthat we have the bar is the safe
consumption site exactly noteven that safe though yeah let
(11:25):
me tell you when we really getone we're gonna come have you
back on the pod we're gonna talksafe porn consumption sites
sometimes yeah me at the publiclibrary, shorking it.
They're like, you have to leave,Hannah.
It's been three days.
This is my safe consumption.
We're blocking any search thatsays mommy.
Three days.
(11:46):
your fingers are pruney girl i'mkind of like visualizing how
this even works like why arethey thinking about legalizing
that where it's like like whywouldn't they be just inside the
stadium or inside of a bar orwhatever why is it walking
around first year i wanted thereto be and this is a state law
(12:07):
that's changing but bruce wantedit to be part of his downtown
activation plan so that youcould go in the art walk and
have a glass of wine follow youbetween the places which is like
a very good use case and i agreei'm like yeah it sucks you can't
really buy a drink and walkaround yeah yeah i it's like i
personally don't care about itbeing out in public but it just
(12:29):
seems like You know, it'll befine for people who look like
they have enough money andanyone else will get bullied
about it.
Yeah, it's a whole doublestandard.
I agree.
Seattleites flock to Coachellain big numbers.
They did?
That's surprising to me.
I mean, honestly, I don't knowif you enjoy that whole
(12:49):
situation.
Go for it.
but it seems pricey and painful.
Sounds like the worstexperience.
I see people's like campingsetups.
I'm like, you're payingthousands of dollars to do this.
And like, it's a hundreddegrees.
You're in the leather.
I'm like, I don't want to be apart of that.
I did see like an interestingNew York times article or saw a
tick talk about an interestingNew York times article that was
(13:12):
talking about the fact thatlike, uh, uh, someone released
data showing that maybe New Yorktimes did how many people bought
their Coachella chicks ticketsas like a layaway thing that on
that.
Oh, Yeah.
Oh, I hate that shit.
Why are we financing weird shitlike that?
The Klarna thing?
The Klarna, yeah.
(13:33):
Oh, I'm so against it.
Gosh, they're even doing Klarnafor like Uber Eats stuff now.
Yeah.
Going to pay off that$15 thingin installments.
Dude, this recession is going tohit us.
We're so fucked.
All right.
Okay.
Last one, just because I want tomake sure we have a safety.
All right.
Seattle single men mark a cityrecord.
(13:56):
No other details.
I love FYI, guys.
Oh, no, no, no.
I know what it is, though.
Oh, what is it?
It's more than 50% of men in thecity are single and have not
been married.
Well, they all have, like, agirl best friend.
Yeah.
Girlfriend who doesn't want tobe their girlfriend.
(14:22):
Beautiful.
Hot, hot takes.
Loved all those takes.
Let's get into a longer, coolertake.
Hannah, what's going on with thewealth tax?
Oh, my God.
Have you been following?
I mean, yeah.
I don't want to spoil it.
Are you all caught up?
Are you all caught up?
(14:43):
before we talk about anythingit's like we have to make this
huge disclaimer that anythingcould happen at any time and it
could be happening right nowwhile we're talking about it and
we could be getting the callthat's like they hit the
pentagon with the fucking sorrywhoa they hit the pentagon and
(15:06):
bush had nothing to do with itfor the wealth i'm sorry i just
left the room so i don't knowwhat just was said i'm so sorry
about that we disavow allviolence of all kinds and the
strongest terms period that's atweet that's a tweet we're
(15:26):
recording right now on fridayepisode doesn't air till monday
in between that time things aregoing to change so sorry if
we're behind but please lifecomes at you fast governor bob
ferguson comes faster um anywaysorry we just ate so i have a
lot of energy Oh, the pod'sgetting loose.
I was figuring myself.
(15:48):
I love it.
The governor.
Holy shit.
Take my shot.
You didn't need to take yourshot.
She's sober.
Okay.
Okay.
So we cannot expect anything ofthis.
It's not tequila.
What is it?
Water?
Tequila.
The disgust in your face.
Oh, did I mix a drink?
(16:09):
You mixed a drink.
Okay, so much going on.
Sorry.
Let's talk about the wealth tax.
Let's talk about the wealth tax.
Okay, so by way of background,if you'll allow me, Democrats in
the state legislature builttheir budget around a
multi-billion dollar wealth tax.
And then, as we remember,Ferguson threw a fit and
promised to veto a budget thatdepended on a wealth tax.
(16:31):
And the Dems stewed and theydebated a little scheme to
bypass that and which you canread about Only on
TheBurnerSeattle.com.
TheBurnerSeattle.com.
TheBurnerSeattle.com.
The only news source thatcovered it.
But this week, the Democratsended up capitulating and
abandoning the wealth tax andthe statewide payroll tax, by
(16:51):
the way.
What was that?
Because you said, again, sorry,I'm going to keep referencing
the whole episode.
What happened there?
Because that seemed like thatwas going to be fine.
Yeah, why not?
Why not?
I don't really know.
I don't know why they abandonedthat one.
It seems like it's alreadytested.
The payroll tax they proposed Idon't think was going to raise a
ton of money.
Um, but now they're just goingto add a new tier to the capital
(17:13):
gains tax.
And, um, they're going tocontinue with the BNO surcharge.
The BNO surcharge is still goingto have an exemption for Boeing.
It looks like for good behaviorafter the genocide.
Um, and then there's a few othertaxes.
(17:36):
Oh, they're going to put a taxon nicotine so all the hot girls
will cry also surprised we don'talready have a tax on nicotine
do it's just like another one imean they're increasing some
taxes that basically alreadyexist yeah well the nicotine one
is modernizing the nicotine likeit's gonna be on more products i
(17:57):
think i don't remember i'm i'mkind of spitballing now but um
it's okay it's okay uh so yeahthey kind of got rid of that uh
what do you what do we think isthat I love that somewhere,
like, behind closed doors, like,they were like, why are we
thinking about taxing therichest people in this state
(18:21):
when we...
Have we done enough to like themost depressed smokers in the
state?
Have we really capitalized onaddiction yet?
Why would you come after thesesaints?
These 4,000 rich as hell saints?
I never thought that they mightbe addicted to exploiting
(18:42):
people, though, actually.
UNKNOWN (18:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:45):
Like you have a lot of sympathy for the people with
the worst breath.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's like, I mean, I'm not asmoker or anything, so that's
not going to affect me, but Idon't know.
It's like, I tend to thinkpeople who are still smoking,
it's like, it's probably likesomething most people wish they
weren't doing, but they'releaning on it because of a
(19:06):
difficult addiction or, orstress.
And it's like, I don't thinkthat's who we need to be
depending on to close this,budget gap no we need to be we
need to be depending on the richcry babies who are spinning this
lucky to live here you're luckyto live here it's a good point
(19:28):
because like i just i just hatelike this narrative of um you
know just like oh if if you taxthem they'll leave they'll leave
the state because like honestlythere's nothing else keeping
them here like try me yeah moveto texas or whatever right go
ahead like honestly show us howmuch you love that your kids
(19:51):
love that more give me afreaking break some of them will
do it bezos moved to floridaokay but like honestly i think
you at some point you need tobet on your own state.
Your state and the city are likevaluable places to live.
They're great places to live.
Tons of people are moving here.
The real estate is going upbecause people want to live
(20:12):
here.
And so I don't know if you're arich person who wants to be part
of this state, pay your fairshare.
Something remotely close to it.
I mean, when the water levelrises, we're on a fault that is
creating a subduction zone.
So we're like the only peoplewho, as the water rises, we're
like rising with it.
(20:32):
It's like Bellingham is like thesafest place to be.
Really?
I did not know that.
They don't want to build theirshit here.
Exactly.
I want to hear more about thatbecause I've heard other things.
Oh, interesting.
That's a fact.
No one look it up.
No one look it up.
But if you do look it up and youwant to tell me what it is, call
(20:53):
me on the hotline.
DM me.
Do not.
But it gets even worse becausenot only did the Democrats
capitulate to him and give upthe wealth tax or whatever, then
Bob Ferguson yesterday came out,did a press release and said
that Not only does he not wantto do the wealth tax, but the
(21:15):
new lesser ambitious package istoo much taxation.
And he's blaming Trump's threatsto federal funding for his own
austerity.
Oh, and it makes no sensebecause the way he's framing
that is like, aren't the workingfamilies of this state going
through enough?
And he knows that's like just aninaccuracy.
(21:35):
Like these wealth taxes wouldhave...
would affect like a very smallgroup of very rich people in
this state, about 4,000 people,right?
About 4,000.
And it's just such a weirdargument for him to say like,
oh, it's just a really bad timeto like pull in more tax revenue
(21:56):
because we're getting so manyfunds cut from the federal
government.
I'm like, isn't this like moreof a reason to like bring in
more tax revenue?
Because...
We're going to have an evenbigger budget shortfall than we
did before.
If he was serious about hisconcerns about it being untested
and balancing the budget on it,then pass the tax and put it all
(22:18):
in the rainy day fund.
Put it somewhere that we can tapinto when they cut Medicaid by
$600 billion.
Put it somewhere that...
it will, when it inevitablysucceeds, like, um, why don't we
have that money?
And the, the, like, um, the, Butyou're right.
Like, they're spinning it asthis thing that's going to
(22:40):
affect working families.
Just to be clear, it's going toaffect 4,000 people.
And if you are someone whodoesn't bring in$50 million a
year in any account, this willnot affect you.
Yeah.
And it's, like, inexcusable thatthey're trying to convince
average people, like...
making way less than that evenupper you know middle class
(23:04):
people were doing great like thethe idea that that tax would
touch them at all is such adeliberate lie yeah and i don't
like yeah it's reallyunconscionable that ferguson's
trying to pull that stuff um ithink a lot of people knew that
ferguson was like a centrist andmoderate but even if you know
knew that it's been it's likereally like astonishing to see
(23:28):
how just flat out Republicanhe's acting.
He's making friends withfucking, he's pleasing Tim Iman,
the guy who would have him onthe headline of every fucking
newsletter he would send to hislike little followers would be
like, Fergie's doing this.
Fuck that guy.
And now Bob Ferguson is pleasingTim Iman with his like
(23:48):
regressive, austere budgeting.
Yeah.
He could be getting so manyamazing things done.
Yeah.
with this, like, you know,Democratic legislature, you
know, at his back.
But, like, he's, like, reallyfighting them on, like,
everything.
Fighting them.
And, like, I think...
one of you said this, but it waslike last time Trump was
president, we had like agovernor who was, you know, say
(24:12):
what you will about Inslee.
I could say a lot.
Yeah.
But I could also say a lot ofgood stuff about Inslee, like
especially rhetorically.
Yeah.
Like he was out there.
He was saying stuff.
He was doing stuff too.
And that matters too.
Like, like just during thepandemic, you know, especially,
you know, during that firstTrump administration, it's like,
I had never felt like so like,abandoned by my like national or
(24:36):
like federal government.
You know, like our presidentduring a pandemic was being
openly just antagonistic towardsus.
And it was like, I had neverfelt so dependent on like my own
state.
Like we're our own country now.
Like I am depending on JayInslee to fight for me because
my own president like is kind oflike, I don't care if you die.
(24:59):
So it was so nice to have like agovernor who really like, stood
up to this guy.
And it's been really terrifyingto see in this second
administration of the Trumppresidency, Ferguson isn't doing
that at all.
I don't feel held.
I don't feel held.
(25:21):
I don't feel held.
But it's terrifying having apresident like this.
And you would hope, okay, at aminimum, I have a governor, I
have a state leader who's goingto stand up and defend us and
it's like he's actually justkind of like going along with
their own culture like doing hisown thing and acting like
(25:42):
there's something cool or smartabout it yeah then act like
that's standing up to trump todo the same thing he's doing
it's like it really it takes meback to election night like when
one of our election takes waslike well like you know, for all
the places that it went red,like Washington got more blue.
And like, I, a friend of mine, Ilike made a brief, cause like,
(26:03):
you know, there are normies whoI hope are listening to this
podcast, but if, but who aren'tlike, you know, steeped in this
stuff.
And I made like kind of apassing comment about Ferguson
sucking.
And she was like, Oh no.
She was like, I actually, I needthis.
You can't tell me that.
You can't tell me that likeevery level of government is,
it's, it is sad.
Like Ferguson is an incredible,Disappointing person right now
(26:26):
And like we're seeing That likeyeah the corporate Overlords of
Washington Microsoft And Amazonare like rallying this like
really expensive fight againstthe wealth tax and he's like
getting calls from them about itand he's just you're like the
dems capitulated to him hecapitulated to them and it's
like why they're fighting ityeah they clearly don't want to
(26:47):
pick up and leave you know whati'll admit uh the first day he
was in office like i had kind oflike a negative needling post
ready to go about him and ididn't want to publish it that
day because i was just like I,you know, there's like a really,
you know, still like anidealistic part of me.
And it's like, there's plenty ofthings I could criticize about
(27:08):
him, but I want him to be achampion for us.
We need that so much.
I want to believe in that somuch.
And right out the gate, justlike, not going to get it from
me, honey.
Like, wow.
Day one, you're not going tomake us feel any more safe
during this presidency.
Yeah.
Huge disappointment, not justobviously on the policy level,
(27:31):
but it's like even on a PRlevel, it's like two middle
fingers.
Hope you ride this out.
I know I'm going to be finebecause of who my donors are,
but like...
Yeah, you're on your own.
I don't care about how scaredyou are about everything that's
going to get cut right now.
And like, I think that's like alesson that advocates are trying
to like preach to to the peoplewho will listen is that the
(27:56):
wealth tax is not a lost cause.
Bob Ferguson is a lost cause andwe have to stop.
We have to stop negotiating withhim because we don't negotiate
with terrorists.
Okay.
Basically, like, honestly, thatis really the, the main thing
that has to happen is like, giveup on this fairy tale and this
hope that you're going to havethis democratic working with
(28:18):
you.
It's obviously and clearly nothappening.
Like, don't give him that.
Like, stop trying to make itwork with him.
He's an enemy now.
And start calling out peoplelike this in the party.
Because, like, there's no waywe, I mean, like, I knew it
about Ferguson.
By the time he was in the SECBthing, it was like, what else
(28:41):
are we going to do except pickhim?
He was the only one who came tothe Stranger Election Control
Board meeting.
He was the only one who came.
And then it was like a questionof like, okay, well, he's just
running right.
I think we even said it in thething.
It's like, we can't writeanything too mean about him
because he's just going to slapthat on his posters and say
(29:02):
like, look, not even theprogressive stranger likes me.
Look how right I am.
It's like there's nothing youcan do when you're the unopposed
candidate.
And he's gotten so far in thesystem that he was just like
anointed to this place.
And we need to stop doing that.
Like you have to like call outthe people who he we are acting
like the Senate Dems would havelike loved this wealth tax bill
(29:25):
or like without him.
And it's like some of them, butsome of them, you know, like I
don't know where you actuallystand because you have been.
touting Ferguson's line for himabout how the wealth tax is
untested.
And it's like, no like democratscan no longer especially in
washington you have a mandateyou can no longer be the
(29:48):
centrist like that's not whatwe're here for anymore like you
have people who believe in youwho want taxation who want to
pay for things as a collectiveand who want to tax the wealthy
like the wealth tax is popularyeah i think a lot of these
people are just like treatingbob ferguson like he's a
coworker.
They don't want to have awkwardconversations with.
(30:09):
And it's like, yo, biggerpicture.
Like people voted you intooffice to do something bigger
than this.
And you shouldn't be minimizingit for this.
I think there is like a real, wehave a real opportunity to lobby
our, our legislators to, to, toturn against Bob.
(30:29):
Like we don't have to accept, wecan tell them, no, we're your
boss.
He's not your boss.
He's just some like co-equalbranch of government.
You guys can do it without himor do something separate from
him, you know?
Yeah, and it almost seems likehe's baiting that, right?
Like, I don't know why, I don'tknow the full motivation for
what Ferguson is doing, but itkind of seems like he's baiting
(30:53):
a situation where it's like, Goahead and do a special session
or a referendum or whatever.
Because I have my own narrativethat I need to stick by for
whatever reason.
Maybe there's some part of himthat would be okay with this,
but he doesn't want topublicly...
before it, he wants to act likehe was never involved in it
(31:14):
happening.
Yeah.
That's probably giving him toomuch credit.
I think he's crazy enough tothink that he could get up to a
different, a higher level ofoffice.
To what?
That's the thing.
What are you even angling for atthis point?
Yeah, are you trying to be partof the Trump cabinet?
That's happening, apparently.
(31:37):
I don't know.
Back to wealth tax stuff.
Though advocates are saying,like, we should call our
lawmakers and stuff, I think thespecific wealth tax thing, like,
the ship has sailed.
I don't see anyone really...
People would have to be, like,lawmakers would have to be
responding to Bob Ferguson, andNoelle Fram isn't responding to
(32:00):
my request for comment.
And this morning, in the SenateWays and Means Committee, she
destroyed her own wealth taxproposal.
It was going to be a...
a 1% tax on wealth over 50million.
And she proposed and passed asubstitute bill that changed it
to 0.034%.
I have a question.
(32:24):
I have a question.
No, like seriously, like whenlike legislators like her still
have the power to make somethingbetter happen.
UNKNOWN (32:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:34):
Why do they back down?
Like, just to make thingspolite?
I don't think she has the votes.
I think that the budget packagewas written by people who are
more progressive than the caucusin general.
And so the thing is, is like,the Democrats in the center...
love to work with theRepublicans to kill their like
(32:55):
progressive like colleaguesbill.
It's not really a two partything.
It's like a three parties, youknow?
Yeah, really is what's happeningand has honestly happened for a
long time in this state.
I mean, it's hilarious to mewhen any kind of Democrat in
this state blames Republicansfor anything failing.
It's like you've had a prettystrong majority in like like for
(33:20):
most of, you know, recenthistory, like you can't blame
that on Republicans.
Like Ferguson isn't likeoffering any like clear counter
solutions to like, if you're notgoing to like, you know, take
one of these wealth tax or otherlike revenue building
strategies, like, okay, smartypants, what do you got?
(33:42):
Oh, this is a good transition.
Uh, he is demanding a hundredmillion dollars of funding for,
uh, like grant funded, likecops, uh, program, which is
like, um, this is, uh, this isour next segment.
So I'll, I'll dive into it.
We'll, we'll get into it.
You want to get into it?
Yeah, let's get into it.
It's going to be a A little bitsprawling.
(34:07):
Buckle up.
Speaking of things RobertFerguson is doing lately that
make him a Republican, ourlisteners might not know this.
Coming into his first term,Ferguson demanded that the
Washington State Legislaturefund a proposal to create a$100
(34:28):
million grant program thatallows local jurisdictions to
hire more cops.
And he made it a huge part ofhis gubernatorial campaign.
I love that word.
Gubernatorial?
Gubernatorial.
Goober and nut in one And oral.
That's Bob Ferguson.
And oral.
(34:49):
Kind of oral.
Not really oral.
Gubernatorial.
Gubernatorial.
He made that a huge part of hisgubernatorial campaign.
And this week, the Senate passeda House bill that would allow
cities to impose a 0.1% salestax that they could then take to
pay for cops, public defenders,domestic violence programs, and
(35:11):
legal advocates.
But it also allows for theestablishment of the grant
program, though it doesn'tspecify an amount since that'll
be done in appropriations, butit sounds like he's getting his
$100 million grant program.
So what do we think about this?
Everybody pro-cop?
Hey, you know us.
So programmed.
(35:34):
Let's do a wealth tax to pay thecop.
Let's do another tax on nicotineto pay the cop.
I mean, honestly, it's just,like, it's so frustrating that,
yeah, while he's providing,like, no other solutions to,
like, fund anything else that isalready kind of financially
hurting, he wants to add fundingto law enforcement.
(35:57):
It's kind of a weird thing, too,because it seems like nobody was
really, like...
No, like, Seattle's been talkingabout, like, wanting to hire
more cops, but they've beenfunding it all on their own.
And, like...
Well, the...
Washington Association of Citieshas been lobbying for this like
councilmanic authority for thesales tax for many years.
That makes sense.
(36:18):
And this was a bill that ChrisStearns introduced last year,
last session too.
Okay.
So it's kind of been in theworks, this councilmanic
authority to do a sales tax.
I don't know about the grantprogram though.
The grant program seems random.
The grant program seems likeThat's campaign bait.
Campaign bait.
Yeah.
Like 100% campaign bait becauseit's so...
(36:40):
It's so clean.
I'm going to have a hundredmillion dollar grant.
Yeah.
Random ass number to a hundredmillion.
A hundred million.
Where's your study on that?
Yeah.
It really is just like some likecommunication consultant was
like, that sounds.
And how many cops is that goingto get us?
Well, that's the thing is that,so he uses this argument a lot
(37:02):
where he says that we have, uh,we have the lowest number of
cops per capita in the nation.
And it's like, that comes fromthe Washington Association of
Police and Sheriffs.
I think I got that a little bitwrong, but like that group.
And like, they kind of, theypoint out that we have like a
1.48 or sorry, we have 1.3 copsper a thousand people.
(37:28):
Um, and the national average is2.33.
So I assume he thinks that wecan basically.
That's almost double.
That's almost double the numberof cops.
Yeah.
At a time when like all, alllike all departments across the
country are having issues hiringcops, cops, uh, probably like,
(37:49):
don't really want to come toWashington or Oregon and we
don't really need them.
You know, it's occurring to methat like, you know, all of this
really is kind of like a PRthing.
I don't know for, you know,super pro-cop Democrats and
Republicans, because it's like,the funny thing is like, you
(38:09):
know, in Seattle, like we'vealready like given huge raises
and bonuses.
Like there's not an issue withlike, a ton of like getting more
money coming to these cops.
And, they're still havingdifficulty hiring people.
So it's like you can reallyspout off a lot like, oh, I'm so
(38:30):
pro-cop.
I'm getting all the money.
We're going to get all thesecops.
And they know darn well thateven if they do this, it's not
going to be like snap yourfingers.
If politicians really caredabout getting more cops, they
would stop running for officeand start becoming cops.
Be a cop.
There's like a thousand of youwho keep on saying, we need more
(38:50):
cops.
Okay.
Great candidate.
Bro.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
We don't want you running.
Sounds like you have a majority.
Are your kids doing it?
Get your kids involved.
No, and it's also like we createthis idea that more cops is like
The thing about it is that a coptoday, I think about this all
(39:13):
the time with ALPR, theAutomatic License Plate Readers,
or ALPR.
Yeah, I said it right the firsttime.
I said it right.
They were talking about how theway cops used to have to recover
cars is they'd have to see alicense plate, get out of their
car, write it down, go put it ina computer.
Technology has made it so thatcops are actually doing their
(39:34):
jobs.
They have tools.
Oh, you're touching onsomething.
You're touching on something.
place the cop.
Yeah, no, this is happening.
This is like Charlie ChocolateFactory and the toothpaste.
You know what I'm saying?
You know what I'm saying?
And Dad lost his job at thetoothpaste factory?
There are so many things thatmake it, I mean, not only the
fact that crime has gone fardown like it's still going down
(39:57):
our homicides have gone downlike even without even at this
time of low cops we have seenlike a crime rate that is like
completely unrelated to how manycops we have and like homicides
is a good statistic for itbecause it's so like everyone
will say well you have lesscrime because you have less cops
i hate crime statistics it's sostupid But you can't argue with
(40:19):
the number of bodies.
So, like, when you see ahomicides are going up and down
independent of how many cops wehave, it just shows that, like,
cops do not prevent crime.
So, like, and what I foundreally interesting is that,
like, Linwood Times or somethingpulled the FBI...
uniform cop reporting statisticsor FBI's like a uniform crime
(40:41):
reporting statistics and showedthat Seattle was like second on
the list for the number of totalviolent and property crimes.
And the only state that theywere below was New Mexico.
And first of all, I just want tosay before we dive into it, that
statistic is incrediblymisleading because when you look
at it, our violent crimes arelike 374.
(41:02):
New Mexico's is like 780.
It's just our property crimesthat pushed us over the top.
And we were actually in that top10 list.
We were like one of the lowertotal violent crimes, which is
the crimes most people wouldargue that they're most
concerned about.
But aside from New Mexico isnumber one.
New Mexico has the most, one ofthe highest rate per capita
(41:26):
rates of cops in the country.
So the argument is just, it justfalls apart.
Yeah.
And it's like also what theyhave.
one of the highest rates ofpolice killings.
Yeah.
Like, but it's like, I mean,there's just like years and
years of research showing thatlike adding police, is it the
thing that makes you safer orreduces violence?
(41:49):
But we live in a culture thatwhere it's like that, that
doesn't matter.
It's like, please just, I don'twant to think about it.
More money for cops.
I'm done.
We only have one tool in the boxwhen you only have one tool in
the box, which is why it wouldbe so incredible if, we could
ever get our alternativeresponse truly expanded.
Lex, you have this question onthe last one, which was like,
(42:12):
what is happening there?
Why is it...
you mentioned like Sarah Nelsongoing on like Seattle channel.
Yeah.
It's like, I, I usually likehate everything she says, but
you know, I was like actuallysurprised to see her like
considering like trying tonegotiate with the police union
(42:32):
to try to get, to expand whatthe care team can do.
And you know, the situationsthat they can go to without
police being there.
I was like, dude, if there's anyway to do that, let's like,
let's go.
And it's so frustrating becauseit's like that council, this
council had the opportunity todo that and they failed.
And so like, so like for peoplewho don't know the care team is
(42:55):
our, is Seattle's alternativeresponse.
And it's, uh, what alternativeresponse is supposed to be is
that if there's somethingnon-criminal that happens,
non-enforcement related, like aneviction where there is like a
like people need like someone tobe there to like help that
person get into like betterservices or, um, something where
(43:15):
like someone's on the street,like not causing any kind of
like traffic obstruction orcausing any sort of danger, but
like, it's maybe like, or maybethey're traffic obstruction, but
it's not dangerous.
They're just kind of like havinga crisis then.
Um, or even just like, uh,someone like has like a, uh,
there's someone who's like inneed of like a shirt and they're
(43:37):
like asking people for it.
Like it's like what most peoplewould consider like a public
nuisance type of thing that wewould be sending alternative
response teams to that insteadof the cops.
And so it doesn't rise to thelevel of like someone who needs
an involuntary treatment order.
And it doesn't rise to someonewho needs to go to jail, but
it's someone who clearly needssomething they need.
(43:59):
There are people about town.
There are social workers abouttown.
It's a, it's a good idea andit's seen a lot of success in
other places.
But when we negotiate with themob, which is Seattle police,
it's really not an exaggeration.
If any of you guys think that'san exaggeration, it's really
not.
(44:19):
And they got the guns to back itup.
And they are fighting tooth andnail against this because they
see it as a way that willundercut like the shifts that
they're allowed to do.
They fought it with everything.
They fight it for like,directing traffic at sporting
events.
They just fight always.
Because their constantnarrative, no matter what
(44:40):
legislation is passed, no matterhow much of a raise they get or
bonuses, poor us, we're notgetting enough money.
I mean, they're going to milkthat defund era for all it's
worth, even though they nevergot defunded.
Because I mean, this union, it'slike they really are just like,
how can we get more money?
They don't care about responsetimes.
(45:02):
They don't care Oh my god.
Yeah.
(45:23):
And, you know, this process Iwent through about calling the
cops was all for nothing becausethey never came.
You have this big moral dilemma.
Yeah, they never came flat out.
Oh, they sent me a, you know,they texted me a how did we do
thing the next day.
I don't know.
What did you do?
Yeah, I was like, you didn't doanything.
(45:46):
You never came.
But yeah, you can't negotiatewith people who are so, they're
so protective of their work.
And so there's...
I understand there's a bill inthe state legislature to change
that.
There was a bill.
It was like, there was a billthat was pushed that the city
proposed.
Um, and that, uh, was that gotlike a little bit of energy
(46:06):
through it.
Um, uh, and Amy Barton wasreally like pushing for it.
She's head of care.
Uh, and it would have basicallygiven the city the power to
circumvent negotiating.
Cause like right now they haveto negotiate with Spog to take
this like work away.
And this would have said like,No, cities have a right to start
(46:28):
an alternative response.
You cannot be forced tonegotiate with another union for
this existence.
And that's the only way you canput SPOG in its place.
The only reason we have accessto records for cops is because
of the state public records.
Yeah, yeah.
You can't just...
Sarah Nelson, whatever she sayson Seattle Channel, she can't
just be nice her way intolike...
getting this in the contractyeah you know it's like it's
(46:50):
impossible there needs to beintervention that makes it
illegal for like spog to limitus in such an insane way in such
an insane way and so it ended uplike kind of getting stalled
inside the party again a littlebit like there's a lot of
pressure from like uh like thehey the teamsters were like kind
of quietly upset about it likeyeah because they represent some
(47:12):
cops like And then the spa cameout against it in a really
public way, which honestly,everyone at the time was like,
yeah, that's good.
It makes it toxic for any laborDems to oppose this.
But it just died quietlyinstead.
Oh, damn.
If only there was a copsreporter who was covering it.
(47:32):
And so there's another bill,1811, that kind of tries to
shoehorn a little bit of thislanguage in.
And it is good because it saysthat 988 can't send, uh, cops to
any calls, which is really nice.
Huge.
But like, it just depends on ifthe city wants to, like, if this
bill passes, if the city reallywants to use it as a cudgel
(47:54):
against fog and it's unclear ifthey will want to do that,
please do it.
Yeah.
UNKNOWN (48:00):
Let's,
SPEAKER_00 (48:00):
I don't know, bump awareness of that.
Because that seems like theeasiest way to try to get some
headway on that.
Yeah, I mean, they've triedstuff like this before where
they tried to make it so thatthey still have this bill that
the city wants, which would makeit so that cops unions couldn't
negotiate over discipline andaccountability in their
(48:21):
contracts and like everybody'slike slippery slope and i'm like
why don't we just say and in thelaw you can't do this to any
other yeah and in the law theslope is not slippery we iced it
before the snow came and i willjust say uh as a like closing
things we're getting close totime If you guys have time to go
(48:43):
look at Divest SPD's piece thatthey did this week on Nathan
Patterson, it's a video of aguy, a story that we covered at
The Stranger before I left,where it was a guy at a bus
stop.
A passerby caught a video of itand it was a guy getting hit
over and over and over withbatons from a cop from the
(49:04):
Seattle Police Department.
And it was one of those thingswhere we caught it in this
passing video.
And then divest SPD got the fullvideo and you watch the full
video.
I mean, you saw it, Lex, you cantalk about it a little bit.
I mean, like there's some policebrutality videos out there where
you're like trying to seeexactly what happened.
(49:24):
You're like, Oh, what did happenthere?
I, you know, it looks fishy andyou're depending on other
eyewitness accounts to fill inthe blanks.
This is very crazy.
clearly like honestly a hard towatch video because this guy is
getting wailed on with a batonfor like a pretty good amount of
time and it's completelyunreasonable like the guy had
(49:46):
his hands up and when you seethis police or this cop wailing
on this guy you know it's justirrational no one needs to get
like bashed in like that yeah Imean divest counts in the video
he says Patterson NathanPatterson nearly hits the guy 20
times with his baton um and thisis a cop who has been on the
(50:08):
force he's part of the reasonhe's a sergeant he was part of
the reason that he was part of agroup of cops who was involved
in an incident that helped bringthe consent decree down on us
which was like federal oversightsaying like hey your cops are
beating people too much um andthen uh he also was caught on
video bragging about breaking abaton on someone breaking his
nightstick on him he's there'slike a list of it seems like a
(50:31):
thing for he's like a Yeah.
(50:54):
it's just, it's what we aredoing right now is defending our
ability to use violence to solveproblems that don't need
violence and are defending ourright to like curb society's
issues with violence rather thantrying to be progressive and
literally progress as a societyout of this like really
primitive way that we approachthese issues and that's like
(51:16):
kind of where yeah yeah it justit's amazing that there's video
out there that should justclearly like not only get this
guy fired but like in a goodworld like charged with the a
crime yeah it's completelyirrational uh the extent to
which she's wailing on this guyum and it seems like day of us
SPD says that he's been on leavefor like about the last year
(51:40):
since then and they're likelykind of um you know, waiting for
the clock to run out on him sothat he can just retire.
And then they won't have to gothrough any process to
officially fire him.
But, and like this situation isthe product of all these
policies that you're talkingabout, that the legislature is
like either fumbling on withthe, with the bill that would
(52:03):
have helped us negotiate withSpog.
And then with the bill to hiremore cops, it's like, we
there's, that's not the issuewith cops right now.
It's not that we don't haveenough of them.
Yeah.
Oh, okay all right i mean solidre-recording everybody yeah it
felt like um the podcasttaylor's version oh yeah we're
(52:24):
all older now we're more matureit slightly slowed down a little
flat yeah yes it's the 1989 wellwe're we're most definitely
going to have you on the podagain you are we might do a
third one right after thisactually wow totally gay She's
(52:46):
too polite.
I love you guys.
No, thank you so much for comingon.
You're our sister publication,The Needly.
Everyone's our sister.
That includes you, Seattle BikeVlogs.
Wow.
That's what we in the biz call acallback.
(53:12):
Okay, thank you all also forjoining us.
We'll be back in next week umwith more gossip and good stuff
and i hope that mike didn't movetoo far away because i am just
grabbing that phone number onemore time if you have any more
thoughts about this episodeplease call us at 571 it burns
571-482-8767 thank you so muchsubscribe to the needling
(53:35):
subscribe to the burner
All right.
(00:01):
Okay, we do need a little bit ofchatter still.
No, I can pull it from what wejust did.
That was a little good.
Wait, what?
Oh, we were recording that.
Oh.
Oh, weren't you recording that?
I was.
I just didn't know that was partof it.
We don't have to do that.
No, it was good.
But we, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Go for it.
Go for it.
UNKNOWN (00:20):
That's a cool open.
SPEAKER_00 (00:26):
I'm Hannah Krieg.
And this is the Burner Podcast,where we talk shit on this
couch.
And they talk shit on fakeaccounts.
And this week, for the veryfirst time ever, we have a
guest.
Please welcome to the pod,publisher, editor, creator,
maintainer of the needling.
Sales only real fake news.
Happy to be here.
(00:48):
Pulitzer Prize winner, which Ialways forget until I listen to
our sister podcast.
I do love how much Crystal islike, she's a Pulitzer Prize
winner.
I covered the Oh So Mudslide.
Oh, classic.
Breaking news.
(01:10):
Iconic Pulitzer poll.
This is a mudslide we talk aboutin school.
Hung out in Darrington.
I mean, it's always weirdtalking about a Pulitzer Prize
winner because it sounds cool,but I'm the person who reported
on something really sad.
It's not like Kendrick Lamar'sPulitzer.
(01:31):
Yeah, it's really not.
But it is a cool thing to put onyour resume.
I do try to like bump that asmuch as i can yeah
unapologetically what's yourclaim to it how did you what was
well i was like out inderrington like reporting from
like morning to night oh my godon it for like two weeks that's
(01:54):
crazy like non-stop it was anall-day thing definitely well
and now you put uh gooey duckdicks up on exactly uh yeah
honestly the highest form ofyeah yeah that that last year
that was my last year of realreal journalism for that reason
(02:16):
i was like i want to write aboutgooey ducks forever now sorry
i'm done with mass death i wouldlike to not be in this as much
anymore uh okay well i'll sayreally quick that like uh i love
the needling i love you um thisis our uh third time recording
(02:38):
our podcast and and the firsttwo will never be heard.
The joke is, everyone, we havealready recorded this podcast,
and then the audio went away, sonow we are re-recording this
podcast, and it's gonna, thelost track, we're gonna always
know about the lost track.
And you guys missed a lot ofgood content.
You'll never know our opinionson circumcision.
(03:01):
Yeah, it was a really hotconversation.
We actually called every bitchout.
Especially the seattle bikeblock yeah oh my gosh and you'll
never know what we have to sayabout you We would have you up
in sweats.
It was messy.
(03:21):
It was uncensored.
And you're never going to hearit.
Should I say I'm kidding?
No.
Stand by it.
So I think I mentioned alreadymy favorite needling currently.
Yeah, I mean, the image isenough.
But the headline is TaylorShellfish Farms introduces new,
easier to clean, gooey decks.
(03:42):
And for me, the joke is justthat, like...
The idea that like...
People circumcise even fornon-religious reasons still
because of excuses like it'seasier to clean, which I just
think is hilarious.
The idea that it's that hard topull back that tiny bit of skin.
(04:03):
When I'm dealing with what I gotdown here, it's not that hard.
It's not that hard.
We're not cutting lips, you knowwhat I mean?
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, some people are, andthat's fine.
Don't do that.
Yeah.
But, yeah.
We might cut that.
Oh! You're going to circumciseyour own podcast.
Make it like everybody else's.
(04:26):
Hannah, do you have a favoriteneedling article you want to...
I do.
I do.
I love your...
Because it's about me.
Of course.
I think it was last month,maybe, the Needling posted a
story.
Mayor Harold debated sweeps withadvisors in AOL group chat,
accidentally shared with cityreporter Hannah Krieg.
(04:47):
Yeah.
And that was so sweet.
So many people sent that to me,like, oh, my God, you're in the
Needling.
You've made it.
I'm like, I have.
I've arrived.
Yeah, I mean, I was excitedabout the burner starting and
the excitement was all worth it.
I mean, you've done anincredible job these first two
weeks.
Thank you.
I appreciate that.
(05:08):
I'm so happy you guys are backin action.
You can't get rid of us.
Were you shocked that we cameback?
Well, no, because we told you.
Not at all, yeah.
No, like, it's like...
No, but, like, seriously, it's,like, I really, you know, I'm so
glad you guys are passionateenough about journalism and,
(05:30):
like, local politics that, like,nothing can hold you back from,
like, continuing to do thiswork, which is, like, really
needed, you know?
See, that should be our openingquestion for podcast guests.
Did you miss us?
Did you miss us?
Did you think we were going tocome back?
What do you think happened inJanuary?
It's just a year-long podcast,and what do you think happened?
(05:53):
No answers, just questions.
Just questions.
You only get answers if youdonate$5,000.
We'll come and tell you.
That's a solid fundraising.
I ain't told to it, people.
Well, before we get into ourfirst segment, we just want to
(06:13):
do a little housekeepingreminder that by the time you're
listening to this, it's going tobe your last opportunity or the
day before your last opportunityto get those ballots in on that
special election that came in.
in your mailbox.
It's a vote no on renewing theKing County fingerprint levy.
Yeah, and only nerds vote yes.
Only nerds vote.
Only losers vote.
(06:34):
Only bootlicking nerds.
Yeah.
Go fuck a cop then.
Basically.
Why do you want to get fingeredby a cop so bad?
Why are you such a follower?
You really went for it.
I was just going to call them abunch of followers.
Not thinking about what they'redoing.
That's probably better.
(06:55):
That's probably a safer place togo.
And also, we'll put this at theend of the pod, but if you do
have opinions or thoughts aboutour opinions or thoughts, feel
free to leave them in ourhotmail or our hotline, that's
what it's called.
Our hotmail account.
(07:16):
Our Yahoo.
It's like even more Our hotline,which is 571-IT-BURNS.
571-IT-BURNS.
Comments, questions, all thatstuff.
Go ahead and leave it in ourvoicemail instead of...
Give it to us as content.
That's what we need it as.
Yeah, yeah.
It's going to be on the pod.
We'll do a voice modulation.
You'll sound like somethingweird, but...
(07:38):
It's going to be on the pod.
100%.
Unless you want your voice.
You just tell us what you want.
We'll do what you want.
But it's 571-IT-BURNS or571-482-8767.
We want to hear from you.
We want to hear from you.
All right.
Okay.
That's housekeeping.
Let's get into our first guestsegment.
You feeling, you got energy,Lex?
Let's go.
Let's go.
(07:58):
All right.
This is Hot Takes.
We're going to give youheadlines and we want to hear
your hottest, most immediatetakes.
First headline.
Seattle has nation's smallestnew apartments.
UNKNOWN (08:10):
Hmm.
SPEAKER_00 (08:10):
That's horrible.
Is it?
But not all the way horrible.
I don't want to be in one ofthem, but that does mean there's
maybe more housing here.
That's true.
I mean, but it's also likemystifying because I just I
don't think of Seattle as havingthe smallest apartments.
Like, doesn't New York City havea speed on that?
(08:33):
All those$800 like apartments,though.
I love.
Here's the thing.
I would hate to live in one ofthose.
I do disagree.
I think people need a little ori mean i do agree i think people
need a little more space i lovethe word apartments yeah it was
very smart a very smartmarketing thing and honestly i
think for people who are i don'tknow maybe in college or just
(08:54):
like getting their first job inseattle like it's not that big
of a deal to live in that kindof thing but it can't be the
norm and i am afraid of thatbeing like yeah i agree it's
like i wouldn't I don't advocatefor any housing I wouldn't live
in.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I have pretty low standards.
I live in a basement, so...
All right.
(09:14):
Okay.
Next one.
We left a miserable life inSeattle, moved back to Chicago.
No regrets.
That's hilarious.
I, like, I just...
It's so funny.
Like, I...
It's pathetic when people try acity for just a year and they're
like, that's it.
We didn't get all of our...
I don't know.
We didn't totally build acommunity or whatever, get
(09:35):
whatever dream that they had ina year.
I think every time I've moved toa big city, it takes way more
than a year to settle in.
Yeah.
Also, how dorky to go onBusiness Insider and write about
how I couldn't make friends andit was cold and I...
it's a mommy like that'sactually really embarrassing for
(09:55):
the diaries and you knowarguably part of a conspiracy to
just keep people out of seattlethat's been going for a long
time yeah because like againbecause it's on the lost track
people won't have it but weliterally saw another one but it
was a new york it was like agirl was like i was living here
for a year we got a compile ofthese yeah see the through line
(10:19):
um all right okay washingtonstate my loose Oh my gosh.
Yeah, it's going to be like amajor case of like...
like, very highly prejudicedpolicing, I think.
Because, like, this city'spretty uptight about, like,
(10:40):
using drugs and, like, well,doing anything kind of dirty out
in public, I think.
I mean, even though, okay, I'llgive the city credit.
Nudity's legal everywhere.
But when it comes to substances,like, this place seems kind of
uptight.
And also, it's like, everybodyfreaks out about, like, fentanyl
on the buses.
It's an enclosed space.
(11:02):
i think that there is some likeweird double standard where like
we don't treat alcohol i i lovei had never really like heard
this argument really said a lotwhen i was living anywhere other
than here but i love that peoplesay like alcohol is a drug too
like it is yeah and the factthat we have the bar is the safe
consumption site exactly noteven that safe though yeah let
(11:25):
me tell you when we really getone we're gonna come have you
back on the pod we're gonna talksafe porn consumption sites
sometimes yeah me at the publiclibrary, shorking it.
They're like, you have to leave,Hannah.
It's been three days.
This is my safe consumption.
We're blocking any search thatsays mommy.
Three days.
(11:46):
your fingers are pruney girl i'mkind of like visualizing how
this even works like why arethey thinking about legalizing
that where it's like like whywouldn't they be just inside the
stadium or inside of a bar orwhatever why is it walking
around first year i wanted thereto be and this is a state law
(12:07):
that's changing but bruce wantedit to be part of his downtown
activation plan so that youcould go in the art walk and
have a glass of wine follow youbetween the places which is like
a very good use case and i agreei'm like yeah it sucks you can't
really buy a drink and walkaround yeah yeah i it's like i
personally don't care about itbeing out in public but it just
(12:29):
seems like You know, it'll befine for people who look like
they have enough money andanyone else will get bullied
about it.
Yeah, it's a whole doublestandard.
I agree.
Seattleites flock to Coachellain big numbers.
They did?
That's surprising to me.
I mean, honestly, I don't knowif you enjoy that whole
(12:49):
situation.
Go for it.
but it seems pricey and painful.
Sounds like the worstexperience.
I see people's like campingsetups.
I'm like, you're payingthousands of dollars to do this.
And like, it's a hundreddegrees.
You're in the leather.
I'm like, I don't want to be apart of that.
I did see like an interestingNew York times article or saw a
tick talk about an interestingNew York times article that was
(13:12):
talking about the fact thatlike, uh, uh, someone released
data showing that maybe New Yorktimes did how many people bought
their Coachella chicks ticketsas like a layaway thing that on
that.
Oh, Yeah.
Oh, I hate that shit.
Why are we financing weird shitlike that?
The Klarna thing?
The Klarna, yeah.
(13:33):
Oh, I'm so against it.
Gosh, they're even doing Klarnafor like Uber Eats stuff now.
Yeah.
Going to pay off that$15 thingin installments.
Dude, this recession is going tohit us.
We're so fucked.
All right.
Okay.
Last one, just because I want tomake sure we have a safety.
All right.
Seattle single men mark a cityrecord.
(13:56):
No other details.
I love FYI, guys.
Oh, no, no, no.
I know what it is, though.
Oh, what is it?
It's more than 50% of men in thecity are single and have not
been married.
Well, they all have, like, agirl best friend.
Yeah.
Girlfriend who doesn't want tobe their girlfriend.
(14:22):
Beautiful.
Hot, hot takes.
Loved all those takes.
Let's get into a longer, coolertake.
Hannah, what's going on with thewealth tax?
Oh, my God.
Have you been following?
I mean, yeah.
I don't want to spoil it.
Are you all caught up?
Are you all caught up?
(14:43):
before we talk about anythingit's like we have to make this
huge disclaimer that anythingcould happen at any time and it
could be happening right nowwhile we're talking about it and
we could be getting the callthat's like they hit the
pentagon with the fucking sorrywhoa they hit the pentagon and
(15:06):
bush had nothing to do with itfor the wealth i'm sorry i just
left the room so i don't knowwhat just was said i'm so sorry
about that we disavow allviolence of all kinds and the
strongest terms period that's atweet that's a tweet we're
(15:26):
recording right now on fridayepisode doesn't air till monday
in between that time things aregoing to change so sorry if
we're behind but please lifecomes at you fast governor bob
ferguson comes faster um anywaysorry we just ate so i have a
lot of energy Oh, the pod'sgetting loose.
I was figuring myself.
(15:48):
I love it.
The governor.
Holy shit.
Take my shot.
You didn't need to take yourshot.
She's sober.
Okay.
Okay.
So we cannot expect anything ofthis.
It's not tequila.
What is it?
Water?
Tequila.
The disgust in your face.
Oh, did I mix a drink?
(16:09):
You mixed a drink.
Okay, so much going on.
Sorry.
Let's talk about the wealth tax.
Let's talk about the wealth tax.
Okay, so by way of background,if you'll allow me, Democrats in
the state legislature builttheir budget around a
multi-billion dollar wealth tax.
And then, as we remember,Ferguson threw a fit and
promised to veto a budget thatdepended on a wealth tax.
(16:31):
And the Dems stewed and theydebated a little scheme to
bypass that and which you canread about Only on
TheBurnerSeattle.com.
TheBurnerSeattle.com.
TheBurnerSeattle.com.
The only news source thatcovered it.
But this week, the Democratsended up capitulating and
abandoning the wealth tax andthe statewide payroll tax, by
(16:51):
the way.
What was that?
Because you said, again, sorry,I'm going to keep referencing
the whole episode.
What happened there?
Because that seemed like thatwas going to be fine.
Yeah, why not?
Why not?
I don't really know.
I don't know why they abandonedthat one.
It seems like it's alreadytested.
The payroll tax they proposed Idon't think was going to raise a
ton of money.
Um, but now they're just goingto add a new tier to the capital
(17:13):
gains tax.
And, um, they're going tocontinue with the BNO surcharge.
The BNO surcharge is still goingto have an exemption for Boeing.
It looks like for good behaviorafter the genocide.
Um, and then there's a few othertaxes.
(17:36):
Oh, they're going to put a taxon nicotine so all the hot girls
will cry also surprised we don'talready have a tax on nicotine
do it's just like another one imean they're increasing some
taxes that basically alreadyexist yeah well the nicotine one
is modernizing the nicotine likeit's gonna be on more products i
(17:57):
think i don't remember i'm i'mkind of spitballing now but um
it's okay it's okay uh so yeahthey kind of got rid of that uh
what do you what do we think isthat I love that somewhere,
like, behind closed doors, like,they were like, why are we
thinking about taxing therichest people in this state
(18:21):
when we...
Have we done enough to like themost depressed smokers in the
state?
Have we really capitalized onaddiction yet?
Why would you come after thesesaints?
These 4,000 rich as hell saints?
I never thought that they mightbe addicted to exploiting
(18:42):
people, though, actually.
UNKNOWN (18:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:45):
Like you have a lot of sympathy for the people with
the worst breath.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's like, I mean, I'm not asmoker or anything, so that's
not going to affect me, but Idon't know.
It's like, I tend to thinkpeople who are still smoking,
it's like, it's probably likesomething most people wish they
weren't doing, but they'releaning on it because of a
(19:06):
difficult addiction or, orstress.
And it's like, I don't thinkthat's who we need to be
depending on to close this,budget gap no we need to be we
need to be depending on the richcry babies who are spinning this
lucky to live here you're luckyto live here it's a good point
(19:28):
because like i just i just hatelike this narrative of um you
know just like oh if if you taxthem they'll leave they'll leave
the state because like honestlythere's nothing else keeping
them here like try me yeah moveto texas or whatever right go
ahead like honestly show us howmuch you love that your kids
(19:51):
love that more give me afreaking break some of them will
do it bezos moved to floridaokay but like honestly i think
you at some point you need tobet on your own state.
Your state and the city are likevaluable places to live.
They're great places to live.
Tons of people are moving here.
The real estate is going upbecause people want to live
(20:12):
here.
And so I don't know if you're arich person who wants to be part
of this state, pay your fairshare.
Something remotely close to it.
I mean, when the water levelrises, we're on a fault that is
creating a subduction zone.
So we're like the only peoplewho, as the water rises, we're
like rising with it.
(20:32):
It's like Bellingham is like thesafest place to be.
Really?
I did not know that.
They don't want to build theirshit here.
Exactly.
I want to hear more about thatbecause I've heard other things.
Oh, interesting.
That's a fact.
No one look it up.
No one look it up.
But if you do look it up and youwant to tell me what it is, call
(20:53):
me on the hotline.
DM me.
Do not.
But it gets even worse becausenot only did the Democrats
capitulate to him and give upthe wealth tax or whatever, then
Bob Ferguson yesterday came out,did a press release and said
that Not only does he not wantto do the wealth tax, but the
(21:15):
new lesser ambitious package istoo much taxation.
And he's blaming Trump's threatsto federal funding for his own
austerity.
Oh, and it makes no sensebecause the way he's framing
that is like, aren't the workingfamilies of this state going
through enough?
And he knows that's like just aninaccuracy.
(21:35):
Like these wealth taxes wouldhave...
would affect like a very smallgroup of very rich people in
this state, about 4,000 people,right?
About 4,000.
And it's just such a weirdargument for him to say like,
oh, it's just a really bad timeto like pull in more tax revenue
(21:56):
because we're getting so manyfunds cut from the federal
government.
I'm like, isn't this like moreof a reason to like bring in
more tax revenue?
Because...
We're going to have an evenbigger budget shortfall than we
did before.
If he was serious about hisconcerns about it being untested
and balancing the budget on it,then pass the tax and put it all
(22:18):
in the rainy day fund.
Put it somewhere that we can tapinto when they cut Medicaid by
$600 billion.
Put it somewhere that...
it will, when it inevitablysucceeds, like, um, why don't we
have that money?
And the, the, like, um, the, Butyou're right.
Like, they're spinning it asthis thing that's going to
(22:40):
affect working families.
Just to be clear, it's going toaffect 4,000 people.
And if you are someone whodoesn't bring in$50 million a
year in any account, this willnot affect you.
Yeah.
And it's, like, inexcusable thatthey're trying to convince
average people, like...
making way less than that evenupper you know middle class
(23:04):
people were doing great like thethe idea that that tax would
touch them at all is such adeliberate lie yeah and i don't
like yeah it's reallyunconscionable that ferguson's
trying to pull that stuff um ithink a lot of people knew that
ferguson was like a centrist andmoderate but even if you know
knew that it's been it's likereally like astonishing to see
(23:28):
how just flat out Republicanhe's acting.
He's making friends withfucking, he's pleasing Tim Iman,
the guy who would have him onthe headline of every fucking
newsletter he would send to hislike little followers would be
like, Fergie's doing this.
Fuck that guy.
And now Bob Ferguson is pleasingTim Iman with his like
(23:48):
regressive, austere budgeting.
Yeah.
He could be getting so manyamazing things done.
Yeah.
with this, like, you know,Democratic legislature, you
know, at his back.
But, like, he's, like, reallyfighting them on, like,
everything.
Fighting them.
And, like, I think...
one of you said this, but it waslike last time Trump was
president, we had like agovernor who was, you know, say
(24:12):
what you will about Inslee.
I could say a lot.
Yeah.
But I could also say a lot ofgood stuff about Inslee, like
especially rhetorically.
Yeah.
Like he was out there.
He was saying stuff.
He was doing stuff too.
And that matters too.
Like, like just during thepandemic, you know, especially,
you know, during that firstTrump administration, it's like,
I had never felt like so like,abandoned by my like national or
(24:36):
like federal government.
You know, like our presidentduring a pandemic was being
openly just antagonistic towardsus.
And it was like, I had neverfelt so dependent on like my own
state.
Like we're our own country now.
Like I am depending on JayInslee to fight for me because
my own president like is kind oflike, I don't care if you die.
(24:59):
So it was so nice to have like agovernor who really like, stood
up to this guy.
And it's been really terrifyingto see in this second
administration of the Trumppresidency, Ferguson isn't doing
that at all.
I don't feel held.
I don't feel held.
(25:21):
I don't feel held.
But it's terrifying having apresident like this.
And you would hope, okay, at aminimum, I have a governor, I
have a state leader who's goingto stand up and defend us and
it's like he's actually justkind of like going along with
their own culture like doing hisown thing and acting like
(25:42):
there's something cool or smartabout it yeah then act like
that's standing up to trump todo the same thing he's doing
it's like it really it takes meback to election night like when
one of our election takes waslike well like you know, for all
the places that it went red,like Washington got more blue.
And like, I, a friend of mine, Ilike made a brief, cause like,
(26:03):
you know, there are normies whoI hope are listening to this
podcast, but if, but who aren'tlike, you know, steeped in this
stuff.
And I made like kind of apassing comment about Ferguson
sucking.
And she was like, Oh no.
She was like, I actually, I needthis.
You can't tell me that.
You can't tell me that likeevery level of government is,
it's, it is sad.
Like Ferguson is an incredible,Disappointing person right now
(26:26):
And like we're seeing That likeyeah the corporate Overlords of
Washington Microsoft And Amazonare like rallying this like
really expensive fight againstthe wealth tax and he's like
getting calls from them about itand he's just you're like the
dems capitulated to him hecapitulated to them and it's
like why they're fighting ityeah they clearly don't want to
(26:47):
pick up and leave you know whati'll admit uh the first day he
was in office like i had kind oflike a negative needling post
ready to go about him and ididn't want to publish it that
day because i was just like I,you know, there's like a really,
you know, still like anidealistic part of me.
And it's like, there's plenty ofthings I could criticize about
(27:08):
him, but I want him to be achampion for us.
We need that so much.
I want to believe in that somuch.
And right out the gate, justlike, not going to get it from
me, honey.
Like, wow.
Day one, you're not going tomake us feel any more safe
during this presidency.
Yeah.
Huge disappointment, not justobviously on the policy level,
(27:31):
but it's like even on a PRlevel, it's like two middle
fingers.
Hope you ride this out.
I know I'm going to be finebecause of who my donors are,
but like...
Yeah, you're on your own.
I don't care about how scaredyou are about everything that's
going to get cut right now.
And like, I think that's like alesson that advocates are trying
to like preach to to the peoplewho will listen is that the
(27:56):
wealth tax is not a lost cause.
Bob Ferguson is a lost cause andwe have to stop.
We have to stop negotiating withhim because we don't negotiate
with terrorists.
Okay.
Basically, like, honestly, thatis really the, the main thing
that has to happen is like, giveup on this fairy tale and this
hope that you're going to havethis democratic working with
(28:18):
you.
It's obviously and clearly nothappening.
Like, don't give him that.
Like, stop trying to make itwork with him.
He's an enemy now.
And start calling out peoplelike this in the party.
Because, like, there's no waywe, I mean, like, I knew it
about Ferguson.
By the time he was in the SECBthing, it was like, what else
(28:41):
are we going to do except pickhim?
He was the only one who came tothe Stranger Election Control
Board meeting.
He was the only one who came.
And then it was like a questionof like, okay, well, he's just
running right.
I think we even said it in thething.
It's like, we can't writeanything too mean about him
because he's just going to slapthat on his posters and say
(29:02):
like, look, not even theprogressive stranger likes me.
Look how right I am.
It's like there's nothing youcan do when you're the unopposed
candidate.
And he's gotten so far in thesystem that he was just like
anointed to this place.
And we need to stop doing that.
Like you have to like call outthe people who he we are acting
like the Senate Dems would havelike loved this wealth tax bill
(29:25):
or like without him.
And it's like some of them, butsome of them, you know, like I
don't know where you actuallystand because you have been.
touting Ferguson's line for himabout how the wealth tax is
untested.
And it's like, no like democratscan no longer especially in
washington you have a mandateyou can no longer be the
(29:48):
centrist like that's not whatwe're here for anymore like you
have people who believe in youwho want taxation who want to
pay for things as a collectiveand who want to tax the wealthy
like the wealth tax is popularyeah i think a lot of these
people are just like treatingbob ferguson like he's a
coworker.
They don't want to have awkwardconversations with.
(30:09):
And it's like, yo, biggerpicture.
Like people voted you intooffice to do something bigger
than this.
And you shouldn't be minimizingit for this.
I think there is like a real, wehave a real opportunity to lobby
our, our legislators to, to, toturn against Bob.
(30:29):
Like we don't have to accept, wecan tell them, no, we're your
boss.
He's not your boss.
He's just some like co-equalbranch of government.
You guys can do it without himor do something separate from
him, you know?
Yeah, and it almost seems likehe's baiting that, right?
Like, I don't know why, I don'tknow the full motivation for
what Ferguson is doing, but itkind of seems like he's baiting
(30:53):
a situation where it's like, Goahead and do a special session
or a referendum or whatever.
Because I have my own narrativethat I need to stick by for
whatever reason.
Maybe there's some part of himthat would be okay with this,
but he doesn't want topublicly...
before it, he wants to act likehe was never involved in it
(31:14):
happening.
Yeah.
That's probably giving him toomuch credit.
I think he's crazy enough tothink that he could get up to a
different, a higher level ofoffice.
To what?
That's the thing.
What are you even angling for atthis point?
Yeah, are you trying to be partof the Trump cabinet?
That's happening, apparently.
(31:37):
I don't know.
Back to wealth tax stuff.
Though advocates are saying,like, we should call our
lawmakers and stuff, I think thespecific wealth tax thing, like,
the ship has sailed.
I don't see anyone really...
People would have to be, like,lawmakers would have to be
responding to Bob Ferguson, andNoelle Fram isn't responding to
(32:00):
my request for comment.
And this morning, in the SenateWays and Means Committee, she
destroyed her own wealth taxproposal.
It was going to be a...
a 1% tax on wealth over 50million.
And she proposed and passed asubstitute bill that changed it
to 0.034%.
I have a question.
(32:24):
I have a question.
No, like seriously, like whenlike legislators like her still
have the power to make somethingbetter happen.
UNKNOWN (32:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:34):
Why do they back down?
Like, just to make thingspolite?
I don't think she has the votes.
I think that the budget packagewas written by people who are
more progressive than the caucusin general.
And so the thing is, is like,the Democrats in the center...
love to work with theRepublicans to kill their like
(32:55):
progressive like colleaguesbill.
It's not really a two partything.
It's like a three parties, youknow?
Yeah, really is what's happeningand has honestly happened for a
long time in this state.
I mean, it's hilarious to mewhen any kind of Democrat in
this state blames Republicansfor anything failing.
It's like you've had a prettystrong majority in like like for
(33:20):
most of, you know, recenthistory, like you can't blame
that on Republicans.
Like Ferguson isn't likeoffering any like clear counter
solutions to like, if you're notgoing to like, you know, take
one of these wealth tax or otherlike revenue building
strategies, like, okay, smartypants, what do you got?
(33:42):
Oh, this is a good transition.
Uh, he is demanding a hundredmillion dollars of funding for,
uh, like grant funded, likecops, uh, program, which is
like, um, this is, uh, this isour next segment.
So I'll, I'll dive into it.
We'll, we'll get into it.
You want to get into it?
Yeah, let's get into it.
It's going to be a A little bitsprawling.
(34:07):
Buckle up.
Speaking of things RobertFerguson is doing lately that
make him a Republican, ourlisteners might not know this.
Coming into his first term,Ferguson demanded that the
Washington State Legislaturefund a proposal to create a$100
(34:28):
million grant program thatallows local jurisdictions to
hire more cops.
And he made it a huge part ofhis gubernatorial campaign.
I love that word.
Gubernatorial?
Gubernatorial.
Goober and nut in one And oral.
That's Bob Ferguson.
And oral.
(34:49):
Kind of oral.
Not really oral.
Gubernatorial.
Gubernatorial.
He made that a huge part of hisgubernatorial campaign.
And this week, the Senate passeda House bill that would allow
cities to impose a 0.1% salestax that they could then take to
pay for cops, public defenders,domestic violence programs, and
(35:11):
legal advocates.
But it also allows for theestablishment of the grant
program, though it doesn'tspecify an amount since that'll
be done in appropriations, butit sounds like he's getting his
$100 million grant program.
So what do we think about this?
Everybody pro-cop?
Hey, you know us.
So programmed.
(35:34):
Let's do a wealth tax to pay thecop.
Let's do another tax on nicotineto pay the cop.
I mean, honestly, it's just,like, it's so frustrating that,
yeah, while he's providing,like, no other solutions to,
like, fund anything else that isalready kind of financially
hurting, he wants to add fundingto law enforcement.
(35:57):
It's kind of a weird thing, too,because it seems like nobody was
really, like...
No, like, Seattle's been talkingabout, like, wanting to hire
more cops, but they've beenfunding it all on their own.
And, like...
Well, the...
Washington Association of Citieshas been lobbying for this like
councilmanic authority for thesales tax for many years.
That makes sense.
(36:18):
And this was a bill that ChrisStearns introduced last year,
last session too.
Okay.
So it's kind of been in theworks, this councilmanic
authority to do a sales tax.
I don't know about the grantprogram though.
The grant program seems random.
The grant program seems likeThat's campaign bait.
Campaign bait.
Yeah.
Like 100% campaign bait becauseit's so...
(36:40):
It's so clean.
I'm going to have a hundredmillion dollar grant.
Yeah.
Random ass number to a hundredmillion.
A hundred million.
Where's your study on that?
Yeah.
It really is just like some likecommunication consultant was
like, that sounds.
And how many cops is that goingto get us?
Well, that's the thing is that,so he uses this argument a lot
(37:02):
where he says that we have, uh,we have the lowest number of
cops per capita in the nation.
And it's like, that comes fromthe Washington Association of
Police and Sheriffs.
I think I got that a little bitwrong, but like that group.
And like, they kind of, theypoint out that we have like a
1.48 or sorry, we have 1.3 copsper a thousand people.
(37:28):
Um, and the national average is2.33.
So I assume he thinks that wecan basically.
That's almost double.
That's almost double the numberof cops.
Yeah.
At a time when like all, alllike all departments across the
country are having issues hiringcops, cops, uh, probably like,
(37:49):
don't really want to come toWashington or Oregon and we
don't really need them.
You know, it's occurring to methat like, you know, all of this
really is kind of like a PRthing.
I don't know for, you know,super pro-cop Democrats and
Republicans, because it's like,the funny thing is like, you
(38:09):
know, in Seattle, like we'vealready like given huge raises
and bonuses.
Like there's not an issue withlike, a ton of like getting more
money coming to these cops.
And, they're still havingdifficulty hiring people.
So it's like you can reallyspout off a lot like, oh, I'm so
(38:30):
pro-cop.
I'm getting all the money.
We're going to get all thesecops.
And they know darn well thateven if they do this, it's not
going to be like snap yourfingers.
If politicians really caredabout getting more cops, they
would stop running for officeand start becoming cops.
Be a cop.
There's like a thousand of youwho keep on saying, we need more
(38:50):
cops.
Okay.
Great candidate.
Bro.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
We don't want you running.
Sounds like you have a majority.
Are your kids doing it?
Get your kids involved.
No, and it's also like we createthis idea that more cops is like
The thing about it is that a coptoday, I think about this all
(39:13):
the time with ALPR, theAutomatic License Plate Readers,
or ALPR.
Yeah, I said it right the firsttime.
I said it right.
They were talking about how theway cops used to have to recover
cars is they'd have to see alicense plate, get out of their
car, write it down, go put it ina computer.
Technology has made it so thatcops are actually doing their
(39:34):
jobs.
They have tools.
Oh, you're touching onsomething.
You're touching on something.
place the cop.
Yeah, no, this is happening.
This is like Charlie ChocolateFactory and the toothpaste.
You know what I'm saying?
You know what I'm saying?
And Dad lost his job at thetoothpaste factory?
There are so many things thatmake it, I mean, not only the
fact that crime has gone fardown like it's still going down
(39:57):
our homicides have gone downlike even without even at this
time of low cops we have seenlike a crime rate that is like
completely unrelated to how manycops we have and like homicides
is a good statistic for itbecause it's so like everyone
will say well you have lesscrime because you have less cops
i hate crime statistics it's sostupid But you can't argue with
(40:19):
the number of bodies.
So, like, when you see ahomicides are going up and down
independent of how many cops wehave, it just shows that, like,
cops do not prevent crime.
So, like, and what I foundreally interesting is that,
like, Linwood Times or somethingpulled the FBI...
uniform cop reporting statisticsor FBI's like a uniform crime
(40:41):
reporting statistics and showedthat Seattle was like second on
the list for the number of totalviolent and property crimes.
And the only state that theywere below was New Mexico.
And first of all, I just want tosay before we dive into it, that
statistic is incrediblymisleading because when you look
at it, our violent crimes arelike 374.
(41:02):
New Mexico's is like 780.
It's just our property crimesthat pushed us over the top.
And we were actually in that top10 list.
We were like one of the lowertotal violent crimes, which is
the crimes most people wouldargue that they're most
concerned about.
But aside from New Mexico isnumber one.
New Mexico has the most, one ofthe highest rate per capita
(41:26):
rates of cops in the country.
So the argument is just, it justfalls apart.
Yeah.
And it's like also what theyhave.
one of the highest rates ofpolice killings.
Yeah.
Like, but it's like, I mean,there's just like years and
years of research showing thatlike adding police, is it the
thing that makes you safer orreduces violence?
(41:49):
But we live in a culture thatwhere it's like that, that
doesn't matter.
It's like, please just, I don'twant to think about it.
More money for cops.
I'm done.
We only have one tool in the boxwhen you only have one tool in
the box, which is why it wouldbe so incredible if, we could
ever get our alternativeresponse truly expanded.
Lex, you have this question onthe last one, which was like,
(42:12):
what is happening there?
Why is it...
you mentioned like Sarah Nelsongoing on like Seattle channel.
Yeah.
It's like, I, I usually likehate everything she says, but
you know, I was like actuallysurprised to see her like
considering like trying tonegotiate with the police union
(42:32):
to try to get, to expand whatthe care team can do.
And you know, the situationsthat they can go to without
police being there.
I was like, dude, if there's anyway to do that, let's like,
let's go.
And it's so frustrating becauseit's like that council, this
council had the opportunity todo that and they failed.
And so like, so like for peoplewho don't know the care team is
(42:55):
our, is Seattle's alternativeresponse.
And it's, uh, what alternativeresponse is supposed to be is
that if there's somethingnon-criminal that happens,
non-enforcement related, like aneviction where there is like a
like people need like someone tobe there to like help that
person get into like betterservices or, um, something where
(43:15):
like someone's on the street,like not causing any kind of
like traffic obstruction orcausing any sort of danger, but
like, it's maybe like, or maybethey're traffic obstruction, but
it's not dangerous.
They're just kind of like havinga crisis then.
Um, or even just like, uh,someone like has like a, uh,
there's someone who's like inneed of like a shirt and they're
(43:37):
like asking people for it.
Like it's like what most peoplewould consider like a public
nuisance type of thing that wewould be sending alternative
response teams to that insteadof the cops.
And so it doesn't rise to thelevel of like someone who needs
an involuntary treatment order.
And it doesn't rise to someonewho needs to go to jail, but
it's someone who clearly needssomething they need.
(43:59):
There are people about town.
There are social workers abouttown.
It's a, it's a good idea andit's seen a lot of success in
other places.
But when we negotiate with themob, which is Seattle police,
it's really not an exaggeration.
If any of you guys think that'san exaggeration, it's really
not.
(44:19):
And they got the guns to back itup.
And they are fighting tooth andnail against this because they
see it as a way that willundercut like the shifts that
they're allowed to do.
They fought it with everything.
They fight it for like,directing traffic at sporting
events.
They just fight always.
Because their constantnarrative, no matter what
(44:40):
legislation is passed, no matterhow much of a raise they get or
bonuses, poor us, we're notgetting enough money.
I mean, they're going to milkthat defund era for all it's
worth, even though they nevergot defunded.
Because I mean, this union, it'slike they really are just like,
how can we get more money?
They don't care about responsetimes.
(45:02):
They don't care Oh my god.
Yeah.
(45:23):
And, you know, this process Iwent through about calling the
cops was all for nothing becausethey never came.
You have this big moral dilemma.
Yeah, they never came flat out.
Oh, they sent me a, you know,they texted me a how did we do
thing the next day.
I don't know.
What did you do?
Yeah, I was like, you didn't doanything.
(45:46):
You never came.
But yeah, you can't negotiatewith people who are so, they're
so protective of their work.
And so there's...
I understand there's a bill inthe state legislature to change
that.
There was a bill.
It was like, there was a billthat was pushed that the city
proposed.
Um, and that, uh, was that gotlike a little bit of energy
(46:06):
through it.
Um, uh, and Amy Barton wasreally like pushing for it.
She's head of care.
Uh, and it would have basicallygiven the city the power to
circumvent negotiating.
Cause like right now they haveto negotiate with Spog to take
this like work away.
And this would have said like,No, cities have a right to start
(46:28):
an alternative response.
You cannot be forced tonegotiate with another union for
this existence.
And that's the only way you canput SPOG in its place.
The only reason we have accessto records for cops is because
of the state public records.
Yeah, yeah.
You can't just...
Sarah Nelson, whatever she sayson Seattle Channel, she can't
just be nice her way intolike...
getting this in the contractyeah you know it's like it's
(46:50):
impossible there needs to beintervention that makes it
illegal for like spog to limitus in such an insane way in such
an insane way and so it ended uplike kind of getting stalled
inside the party again a littlebit like there's a lot of
pressure from like uh like thehey the teamsters were like kind
of quietly upset about it likeyeah because they represent some
(47:12):
cops like And then the spa cameout against it in a really
public way, which honestly,everyone at the time was like,
yeah, that's good.
It makes it toxic for any laborDems to oppose this.
But it just died quietlyinstead.
Oh, damn.
If only there was a copsreporter who was covering it.
(47:32):
And so there's another bill,1811, that kind of tries to
shoehorn a little bit of thislanguage in.
And it is good because it saysthat 988 can't send, uh, cops to
any calls, which is really nice.
Huge.
But like, it just depends on ifthe city wants to, like, if this
bill passes, if the city reallywants to use it as a cudgel
(47:54):
against fog and it's unclear ifthey will want to do that,
please do it.
Yeah.
UNKNOWN (48:00):
Let's,
SPEAKER_00 (48:00):
I don't know, bump awareness of that.
Because that seems like theeasiest way to try to get some
headway on that.
Yeah, I mean, they've triedstuff like this before where
they tried to make it so thatthey still have this bill that
the city wants, which would makeit so that cops unions couldn't
negotiate over discipline andaccountability in their
(48:21):
contracts and like everybody'slike slippery slope and i'm like
why don't we just say and in thelaw you can't do this to any
other yeah and in the law theslope is not slippery we iced it
before the snow came and i willjust say uh as a like closing
things we're getting close totime If you guys have time to go
(48:43):
look at Divest SPD's piece thatthey did this week on Nathan
Patterson, it's a video of aguy, a story that we covered at
The Stranger before I left,where it was a guy at a bus
stop.
A passerby caught a video of itand it was a guy getting hit
over and over and over withbatons from a cop from the
(49:04):
Seattle Police Department.
And it was one of those thingswhere we caught it in this
passing video.
And then divest SPD got the fullvideo and you watch the full
video.
I mean, you saw it, Lex, you cantalk about it a little bit.
I mean, like there's some policebrutality videos out there where
you're like trying to seeexactly what happened.
(49:24):
You're like, Oh, what did happenthere?
I, you know, it looks fishy andyou're depending on other
eyewitness accounts to fill inthe blanks.
This is very crazy.
clearly like honestly a hard towatch video because this guy is
getting wailed on with a batonfor like a pretty good amount of
time and it's completelyunreasonable like the guy had
(49:46):
his hands up and when you seethis police or this cop wailing
on this guy you know it's justirrational no one needs to get
like bashed in like that yeah Imean divest counts in the video
he says Patterson NathanPatterson nearly hits the guy 20
times with his baton um and thisis a cop who has been on the
(50:08):
force he's part of the reasonhe's a sergeant he was part of
the reason that he was part of agroup of cops who was involved
in an incident that helped bringthe consent decree down on us
which was like federal oversightsaying like hey your cops are
beating people too much um andthen uh he also was caught on
video bragging about breaking abaton on someone breaking his
nightstick on him he's there'slike a list of it seems like a
(50:31):
thing for he's like a Yeah.
(50:54):
it's just, it's what we aredoing right now is defending our
ability to use violence to solveproblems that don't need
violence and are defending ourright to like curb society's
issues with violence rather thantrying to be progressive and
literally progress as a societyout of this like really
primitive way that we approachthese issues and that's like
(51:16):
kind of where yeah yeah it justit's amazing that there's video
out there that should justclearly like not only get this
guy fired but like in a goodworld like charged with the a
crime yeah it's completelyirrational uh the extent to
which she's wailing on this guyum and it seems like day of us
SPD says that he's been on leavefor like about the last year
(51:40):
since then and they're likelykind of um you know, waiting for
the clock to run out on him sothat he can just retire.
And then they won't have to gothrough any process to
officially fire him.
But, and like this situation isthe product of all these
policies that you're talkingabout, that the legislature is
like either fumbling on withthe, with the bill that would
(52:03):
have helped us negotiate withSpog.
And then with the bill to hiremore cops, it's like, we
there's, that's not the issuewith cops right now.
It's not that we don't haveenough of them.
Yeah.
Oh, okay all right i mean solidre-recording everybody yeah it
felt like um the podcasttaylor's version oh yeah we're
(52:24):
all older now we're more matureit slightly slowed down a little
flat yeah yes it's the 1989 wellwe're we're most definitely
going to have you on the podagain you are we might do a
third one right after thisactually wow totally gay She's
(52:46):
too polite.
I love you guys.
No, thank you so much for comingon.
You're our sister publication,The Needly.
Everyone's our sister.
That includes you, Seattle BikeVlogs.
Wow.
That's what we in the biz call acallback.
(53:12):
Okay, thank you all also forjoining us.
We'll be back in next week umwith more gossip and good stuff
and i hope that mike didn't movetoo far away because i am just
grabbing that phone number onemore time if you have any more
thoughts about this episodeplease call us at 571 it burns
571-482-8767 thank you so muchsubscribe to the needling
(53:35):
subscribe to the burner
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