June 25, 2025 • 56 mins
Join us to learn how Josef Albers' revolutionary approach to colour theory fundamentally changed how we understand visual perception in art. Through relentless experimentation and disciplined investigation, he transformed simple geometric forms into profound studies of how chromatic relationships interact, influence, and transform one another when colours are placed in proximity to other colours.
Born in Prussia in 1888, Albers' remarkable journey took him from the revolutionary Bauhaus in Germany to Black Mountain College in North Carolina and finally to Yale University—leaving an indelible mark on art education at each institution. His teaching philosophy was elegantly simple: "I have not taught painting because it cannot be taught. I have taught seeing." This approach influenced generations of important American artists, including Robert Rauschenberg, Cy Twombly, and Eva Hesse.
While Albers created significant works throughout his career—from innovative glass pieces at the Bauhaus to architectural-inspired "Adobe" paintings—his monumental "Homage to the Square" series represents his definitive achievement. Created between 1950 and his death in 1976, these meticulously executed paintings feature three or four nested squares in different colors, applied with a palette knife directly from the tube onto Masonite boards. Each painting documents a specific color relationship, with Albers noting the exact pigments on the reverse of every panel.
For collectors, Albers presents a fascinating opportunity. Despite being represented in every major museum worldwide and receiving the first-ever solo exhibition for a living artist at the Metropolitan Museum in 1971, his market shows remarkable value discrepancies. While larger works command $2-3 million, smaller examples offering similar visual impact can still be acquired for $230,000-850,000. With an impressive 83.3% sell-through rate at auction and over 70% of lots exceeding high estimates in recent years, Albers represents a blue-chip investment with both cultural significance and growth potential.
Explore how this towering figure of modernism can enhance your collection while providing a solid foundation for understanding color theory in 20th-century art. Contact Nordic Art Partners today for expert guidance on acquiring works by this essential artist whose influence continues to resonate throughout contemporary art and design.
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Episode Transcript
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Jeppe Curth (00:00):
Hi and welcome to the Collector's Edge for Nordic
Art Partners.
In today's episode, we willexplore the career and market of
Joseph Albers, one of the mostinfluenced abstract artists and
color theorists of the 20thcentury.
Joining me, as always, is ourart expert, nicolas Robinson,
and I'm your host, Jeppe Curth.
Let's get started.
It is with Alex Rotter at 400million Selling here at
(00:24):
Christie's.
Nichlas Robinson (00:24):
$400 million is the bid and the piece is sold
.
We've all heard about it.
Sometimes it's front-page newsImportant works of art are being
sold for incredible sums ofmoney, but can you get involved
and become a part of theexclusive club yourself, and how
do you get started whileavoiding buying the wrong things
(00:46):
?
That's exactly what thispodcast is about.
This is the Collector's Edgefrom Nordic Art Partners, a
podcast for those of youinterested in the mechanics of
the art industry, want adviceabout putting money into art, or
simply want to buy somethingfor your walls, to beautify your
surroundings.
Whatever your objectives, it ispossible to put money into art
(01:10):
wisely, to be consideredthoughtful and well-informed in
your choices and actions.
Welcome to the art ofcollecting with an eye for
curated beauty and practicalvalue.
Jeppe Curth (01:26):
Hi Nick.
Nichlas Robinson (01:27):
Good morning.
Jeppe Curth (01:29):
Good morning.
How are you doing Very well,thank you.
How are you today?
I'm good.
I'm good and especially becausewe're going to talk about
Joseph Albers.
Nichlas Robinson (01:37):
Yes, we have a lot to get through.
He's obviously a toweringfigure.
Jeppe Curth (01:41):
Yeah, yeah, exactly .
But, nick, normally we usuallytalk about artists who are
either rising or rediscovering,but Josef Albers is different.
He feels different, right?
Um?
He's already in every museum,he's in every art history book,
so why are we using our time andtalking about him today?
Nichlas Robinson (02:01):
well, I think it's possible for an artist to
have all of these credentialsand yet somehow still be
underrated, and we are going totalk about just why we think
that that is the case.
There's a lot of differentkinds of works that he made and
lots of different kinds ofopportunities that it presents
(02:21):
for people who are interested incollecting one of the
unquestionably most significantfigures in the history of
modernism and 20th century art.
Jeppe Curth (02:32):
Yes, good, and also you probably need some deep
pockets this time to get atJosep Albert.
But let's get back to that.
Well, we'll find out.
Yeah, exactly as always.
Let's start, how we usually do,by go backwards and and talk a
little bit about his background?
Nichlas Robinson (02:49):
uh, certainly we can do that.
Um, where to begin really?
Uh, his entire uh had a verylong life, um, spanning the bulk
of the the 20th century, and Ithink you know we can.
First of all, let's just sortof summarize him and what he's
(03:11):
known for, I guess, is maybe agood place to start.
The reason why we're talkingabout him today is that is that
I think myself and many otherpeople would consider him and
his work to be the mostsignificant bridge between
European and American modernismIn the 20th century.
There was a sort of a leap, ifyou will, taking place in the
(03:34):
post-war period, where New Yorkassumed sort of primacy, taking
over from Paris, which had beenthe sort of undisputed center of
modern art practice,progressive art practice in the
earlier part of the 20th century.
And Albers is a very importantfigure who has a seminal role in
(03:56):
sort of both of theseenvironments.
So that's the first thing andwhat he's known for.
Well, he's known for spendingreally an entire career very
focused into his sort ofinvestigations into the
perceptual properties of color.
So it's a very narrow anddisciplined approach that he has
(04:19):
taken towards his view of art,his ideas about art, but we'll
come on to that more in a bit.
Um, so to begin, uh, we canrewind back to the very
beginning.
Uh, he was born in in 1888 inPrussia.
Um, his, uh, his father was ageneral contractor and and very
(04:43):
proficient in all manner ofhandiwork, uh things necessary
to build, build uh, carpentry,plumbing.
So when albus was was a veryyoung boy and a young man, his
father was very, um influentialin that he trained joseph the
young joseph in variousmaterials and techniques,
(05:05):
teaching him about theirproperties, how to use them,
manipulate them.
So a very, very importantpractical foundation that Albers
always was to fall back on.
From 1908 until 1913, he workedas a school teacher.
1908 until 1913, he worked as aschool teacher.
(05:29):
Initially he was teaching youngchildren as a generalist.
But he had a very kind ofimportant sort of seismic event
in his life, if you like.
In 1908, he saw two paintingsby Cézanne at the Volkwang
Museum in Essen, and this washis first experience of really
visiting art, but also, morenotably, of being very
(05:49):
viscerally moved by it, and hewas always to recall this
experience as one that reallymade him feel that somehow his
life had changed forever withthis experience.
So at the end of this sort ofmini period.
In 1913, he gained a teachingqualification as an art teacher,
and this is when he actuallybegins to start making art for
(06:13):
the first time.
In 1919, he enrolled in theRoyal Bavarian Academy of Fine
Arts in Munich and interestinglyand this is a little bit why I
refer to him as as has sort ofspanning an entire century,
because in Munich he was taughtby Franz von Stuck.
Now von Stuck was a leadingfigure in German art at the end
(06:37):
of the 19th century and hisstyle was very strongly
associated with the sort of lateromanticism and symbolism of
that time.
And he, as a teacher, was alsoto count Paul Klee and Vasily
Kandinsky among his students.
So this was Albers' firstintroduction to being taught art
(07:01):
at a high level.
Jeppe Curth (07:03):
So Albers is now a teacher, and this will become a
key part of his identity formany years to come.
Nichlas Robinson (07:11):
Well, yes, I mean, his entire life was spent
as a teacher, as an educator,and the role he played in that
part of his life is, of course,inseparable from the role he
played developing his own work.
His teaching was a sort of avehicle for him to develop and
(07:34):
evolve his theories, and then,of course, his own work was the
means by which he performedthese theories in a practical
sense, performed these theoriesin a practical sense.
So in 1920, this is a very keyphase now for Albers in 1920, he
(08:00):
joined the Weimar Bauhaus as astudent.
Now the Bauhaus had beenfounded one year previously by
Walter Kropius, architect uh, aleading modernist architect, one
of the very first architectspracticing what we describe as
the international style, alsopracticed by uh, most famously,
le Corbusier uh in France.
So he went to study at theBauhaus um, and he was very
(08:22):
interested in in working withglass.
But there were a lot of.
There was shortage of materials, there was very high inflation
in Germany at the time, and soit was very difficult for him to
get his hands on the kinds ofthings that he wanted to use to
incorporate into his work.
So he found himself making sortof assemblage type works from
(08:45):
discarded materials, especiallyglass.
He describes process wherebyhe's sort of breaking old
bottles in order to getdifferent colored and shaped
shards that he can utilize toincorporate into his work.
He also innovated a process ofpainting on glass that involved
sandblasting.
But such was his sort ofinnovative um kind of
(09:07):
contribution to life in theBauhaus that that he was invited
to become a faculty member in1922.
Um, another key thing happenedto him in 1922.
He met his future wife, in fact, um, who was, whose name was
shortened to Annie, but her namewas annelise, annelise
fleischman, uh, the daughter ofa of a well-to-do furniture
(09:30):
manufacturer.
Um, she was actually initiallyturned down uh for entry, uh
into the bauhaus, but joseph,her sort of helped her um sort
of rework and prepare her, herapproach, approach to the
admission tests, and eventuallyshe was admitted and she then
went to conduct her studies inthe weaving workshop.
(09:54):
She would actually subsequentlyalso come to direct the weaving
workshop.
So in due course she alsofollowed the same path as Albus,
her husband Joseph, wherebythey began life as students and
they were so sort ofinextricably intertwined with
the life of this place, thisinstitution, that they also came
(10:16):
to work there.
In 1923, albus was invited byKorpius to teach the forecourse
or the preliminary course, andthis is an important sort of
foundation course and the dutiesof which he shared with another
incredibly important artist,laszlo Moholy-Nagy.
(10:37):
Now some people mistakenlythink of Albers as being one of
the, as being a teaching uh, asort of a painting teacher, but
that's actually not the case.
The painting masters at thebauhaus were kandinsky and clay.
If you recall his um sort oferstwhile um.
Other students from uh, thefranz von, stuck years um, but
(11:02):
these guys were teaching thepainting course and Albers was
teaching various other things.
He, he, he taught design, he,he, he was involved in uh in in
glass.
He was involved in uh.
He even designed um a chair, uhdesigned some type faces, so it
was very much involved ingraphic design sort of informal
(11:25):
education under the tutelage ofhis father was very instrumental
in his um very sort ofpractical approach to all of
(11:49):
these different disciplines Inuh.
1925 was a was a key year uh inthe Bauhaus.
That is when the school movedinto their uh buildings, the
famous buildings designed byKorpiusius, moving from Weimar
to Dessau.
And in 1925, when this movetook place, he was promoted to
(12:13):
professor.
He married Annie and the two ofthem lived in one of the
master's residences Annie,continuing in the weaving
workshop, and Joseph involved in, like I mentioned, carpentry,
metalwork, glass, graphic design, very much an early proponent
of very clean and effectivedesign whereby form would follow
(12:36):
function.
In terms of his own work atthis time he designed some large
scale windows for a newly builtmuseum, also tableware, in
addition to some of the otherthings that I've already
mentioned, um.
So this was a real, possiblythe most, um kind of influential
(12:58):
generation of artist educatorsin the entire 20th century,
other than another place whichwe will come on to shortly,
which Albus was also involved in, but the faculty at the Bauhaus
at this time included Paul Klee, kandinsky, as I mentioned,
oskar Schlemmer, marholinage,marcel Breuer, johannes Itten,
(13:19):
lionel Feininger, herbert Bayerand Marianne Brandt.
So this is really a sort of abrain's trust of art and design
in this early modern period.
But this period, sadly, was notto last.
We all know, unfortunately,what happened to Germany and
what started to happen toGermany at this time.
(13:41):
Well, in 1933, the, thenational socialist government,
came to power and the Bauhauswas very much under threat.
It was, of course, a veryprogressive institution and
things that were progressive atthis time were considered uh,
degenerate um by the Nazis.
(14:01):
So the school was actually umuh, people think that it was it
was shut down by the, the Nazis.
It's actually not, strictlyspeaking, the case.
Um, it was closed voluntarilyby the faculty um really born
from their refusal to complywith the educational dictates,
uh, the staffing rules, etcetera, of of the Nazi regime.
(14:24):
So at this key time the Alberswere now unemployed and also
very much aware of theuncertainty and the problematic
implications of Annie beingJewish.
So this brings us to a verypivotal moment in their life.
So in 1933, annie, annie um met, coincidentally, the young
(14:48):
American architect PhilipJohnson.
She ran into him in Berlin Uh,they had previously met at the
Bauhaus Um, but they werelooking at some uh design work
that the that Annie was showinghim in hers and Joseph's house,
and he asked her if she wantedto go to America.
(15:10):
She talked to Joseph.
She determined that, yes, theywanted to go to America, but
emigration was potentiallycomplicated at this time.
But the Albers' reputation asimportant art theorists and also
Annie's friendship with PhilipJohnson were to prove
instrumental.
(15:30):
This was a sort of a key factorin their ability to transition
from Europe to the United States.
Also, behind the scenes therewere some highly influential
patrons making arrangements.
Johnson himself was extremelywell connected, um, and probably
through him there cameassociations with um john d
(15:53):
rockefeller ii and his wife andedward warburg.
Uh, collectively they uhlobbied for their immigration
permissions, also paying a firstclass steamship fare for them.
But the reason that they went toAmerica wasn't just to
speculatively, you know, escapefrom the tumult of Europe.
(16:14):
It was because they had aspecific thing to go to and that
was to be the foundingprofessors of Black Mountain
College.
So Black Mountain College wasfounded in 1933.
And it was a liberal artscollege in North Carolina that
(16:40):
was unique for its educationalapproach, where an emphasis on
art and creativity was the corediscipline for all students.
And the interesting thing aboutBlack Mountain, which I suppose
is a little bit of an analogueto the Bauhaus, is that it has
developed some of the mostseminal and influential American
(17:01):
artists of the 20th century,really those who shaped the
entire cultural life of thesecond half of the century
across numerous disciplines.
So you had Joseph and Annie andtheir colleagues, the other
professors, including theexperimental composer John Cage,
(17:21):
whose first musical happeningtook place at Black Mountain,
the inventor, the architect,theorist, buckminster Fuller,
who was responsible for buildingthe first geodesic dome.
He was on the faculty there.
Einstein was a guest lecturerthere too, and some of the other
members of the faculty, eitherpermanent or visiting the other
members of the faculty eitherpermanent or visiting Elaine and
(17:45):
Willem de Kooning, franz Klein,aaron Siskind the leading
photographer was a studentinitially and then a professor.
Robert Motherwell, merceCunningham he formed his dance
company there, and then some ofthe students that Albers was
(18:08):
responsible for teaching includesome of the most notable
artists from the United States,including Robert Rauschenberg,
cy Twombly, ruth Asawa.
So anyway, this is a little bitof an overview of of of Albers
as a teacher, and I know itseems like a lot of information,
but we can't really overstatehow, how, how instrumental he
(18:30):
was in in communicating, youknow, his, his ideas.
We're going to, we're going tocome on to what those ideas
consist of Um, but there's a,there's a lot of anecdotal
information about his time atBlack Mountain, um.
He was very, you know, deeplyadmired and loved as a, as a, as
a professor, um.
(18:50):
His English initially wasextremely limited and to begin
with Annie performed uh,translating juices for him, um,
but because his grasp of Englishwas, was, was, small, um, his
seminars were highly visual andhe was very uh.
You know he was very um, youknow he was very gesticulatory
(19:20):
and highly encouraging ofstudents to express themselves.
So a funny sort of story.
Dating back to this time, hisfirst ever statement as a
teacher in English was mostlikely dictated by his limited
grasp of the language.
So he was asked what hisoverriding philosophy or what
his, I guess, didactic approachwas to the course that he would
(19:40):
teach, and he replied verysimply to open eyes.
So from 33 to 49, he was ateacher at Black Mountain.
But by 1949, there were variousinternal divisions as to the
direction of the college.
It was becoming a little bitriven with friction and conflict
(20:03):
.
So that prompted the Albers toleave and move to New York.
And that same year, in 49,annie was the first woman and
the first textile artist to havea solo show at the Museum of
Modern Art.
So that goes to show you, eventhough they are teachers and
educators, that goes to show youthe standing that they had.
(20:26):
And yes, this, this, this, thispod, is about Joseph Albers.
But but I think that we can't,that we can't speak about one
without the other.
They were extremely important,symbiotically to each other,
professionally and personally,and they both, you know, kind of
developed alongside each other,encouraged each other,
(20:48):
supported each other, supportedeach other.
But in 1949, they left, andthen in 1950, joseph was
appointed the head of the newlyformed Department of Design at
Yale University.
So even here he was not apainting professor but a
professor in the Department ofDesign, and 1950 is a key year
(21:10):
because this is the year that hebegins making his homage to the
square paintings.
But anyway, we will return tothis group of works shortly.
But again, we cannot overstatehis influence, even whilst at
Yale there are numerousimportant alumni that came
through the college under histutelage, including Eva Hess,
(21:36):
richard Anuskovich, neilWelliver a real who's who of
late 20th century, importantartists working in a variety of
styles, but all of whom cameinto contact with him and were
deeply touched by his approachto teaching.
I'm just going to say one morething about his teaching.
Philosophy is a nice quotationthat I found.
(21:58):
He said I have not taughtpainting because it cannot be
taught.
I have taught seeing.
What I taught was philosophy ofform, the philosophy of lines,
the philosophy of colors.
Jeppe Curth (22:11):
Thank you, nick.
So you have covered his ideasabout teaching art.
Um, I think we should talk alittle bit about making art.
Um, what kind of work did hemade and can you give us an
overview, maybe also timeline,and even a description of his
painting, maybe his key body ofworks?
Nichlas Robinson (22:33):
yes, of course um.
So, as I alluded to at thebeginning, the key, the key
theme of his entire working lifeand teaching life was was color
the way color, the way color isperceived and the way chromatic
um contrasts are perceived andthe way chromatic um contrasts
(22:53):
are perceived and the way colorreacts when, when um when placed
adjacent to other colors, andhow the colors can essentially
activate each other in differentways.
But his own work, um, as I'vementioned, he made his glass
works at the Bauhaus.
His first key works in colourwere actually made out of glass.
(23:20):
He was always very fascinatedby the properties of glass, how
essentially light could reactwith and activate the color in
glass.
And he made some very importantgridded works whilst at the
Bauhaus, whereby squares ofcolored glass were arranged in a
(23:40):
grid with a sort of solderedmetal frame holding these small
tiles, rather like a sort of amosaic.
Almost In 1934 was when hereally started to sort of paint
in oil.
So of course he'd been workingas an artist prior to this, but
he had been making a lot of umsort of object based based works
(24:04):
.
Um, he and he and he startedtraveling a little bit, uh, and
in 34, he actually exhibited umsome woodcut works in Havana um
1936, 37.
Throughout the 1940s Um, hestarted painting on Masonite um,
(24:24):
which was a key material forhim throughout his working life,
and these works, you know, showa sort of inexorable
development towards the homageto the square works that we
shall come on to um, showingdifferent ways that line and
color can react together inthese very um sort of
(24:59):
disciplined um compositionalforms there's.
There are some sort ofreminiscences of other
practitioners from this time,maybe ben nicholson naombo, some
other artists whose work youcan sort of see a little bit in
his early paintings.
(25:20):
In the late 1940s he and Anniewere to travel to Mexico, which
became a very significant placefor them.
He developed a body of worksthat immediately preceded the
Homage to the Square works, andthese are sort of colloquially
known as his Adobe works.
(25:41):
He was very interested in thearchitectural vernacular of
Mexico, the way that the formswere constructed, the way that
the forms were constructed, thefenestration of the buildings,
the repetition of these forms.
He actually took huge amountsof photographs of these
(26:03):
buildings too, and he startedmaking paintings that were a
sort of reductive interpretationof these forms, always in these
very sort of flat blocks ofcolor showing the interplay of
color and form.
I think I read somewhere theywent maybe 13 times by the late
(26:25):
1960s.
So anyway, this is this.
This Adobe series that he beganin 47 on one of their journeys
to Mexico was actually during asabbatical from teaching at
Black Mountain.
He has a sort of quote aboutthis which is very sort of
(26:45):
germane to his homage series.
He said all variants are builton an underlying checkerboard
like structure.
This provides a definiterelationship of all parts and
therefore a unification of formIn each painting.
The areas of the various colorsare in most cases equal.
I have deprived myself of greatlight contrasts.
(27:06):
All colors remain on a mediumlevel of intensity.
There is no modulation.
All color areas are flat andhave definite shapes joining
along the contours tightly.
By that he means these sort ofhard-edged blocks of color
butting up against each other.
So this is a range of effects,if you like, that he's started
(27:29):
to develop that are quitelimited in their scope and allow
for a certain repetition.
And this format excited him andhe actually continued to paint
these Adobe works until 1966, atwhich point his focus to the
(27:51):
homage to the square took overcompletely.
Jeppe Curth (27:54):
Okay, thank you, nick.
So homage to the square works.
It seems impossible to lookpast these big crowning
achievements.
Tell us about them, and maybealso what they mean.
Nichlas Robinson (28:06):
Well, the homage to the square became his.
You know his sort of defininglife's work, if you will.
You know his sort of defininglife's work, if you will.
Um, he first started makingthem in 1950 when he took up the
teaching position at Yale.
Um, and he made them until theend of his life in 1976.
(28:30):
So this is a format, uh, thathe worked on obsessively and, as
I mentioned, exclusively after1966, um, and, if you like, uh
was was recognized at the timeas the most sort of exhaustive,
(28:54):
rigorous study of color in artat this time.
And in 1971, this series ofpaintings, they were the subject
, actually, of the first eversolo show devoted to a living
artist at the MetropolitanMuseum in New York.
So, anyway, this homage to thesquare, what are they?
(29:16):
Well, each is on Masonite,which is a kind of a sort of
composite wooden board, and it'sit's just painted on the rough
side of the material.
Each consists of three or foursquares.
Now, sometimes people say thatthey are squares within squares,
(29:38):
or nested squares.
So you basically have three orfour squares set on top of each
other but instead of beingarranged centrally, every single
one of these paintings issquare as well.
The Masonite board is squareand the painted squares, the
(30:03):
center of the painted squares,is actually moved down, so that
the spaces between the squaresare much sort of tighter at the
bottom than they are at the top.
So this gives them a kind of alittle bit of a feeling of
movement, so that the squaresare sort of activated or the
(30:28):
color becomes sort of animatedor maybe not so static in some
way.
So anyway, you have three orfour squares.
Each of the squares is paintedin a different color, and the
way he painted was with apalette knife.
He always used a palette knifeto apply the color, and the
(30:48):
reason he used Masonite actuallyis because he was sort of
spreading with this knife.
It was the firmness of theMasonite surface provided a
better resistance for theapplication than a canvas would,
which of course is more springy, I guess.
So these panels, prior to hispainting the colors, they were
(31:10):
always covered with at least sixcoats of white primer.
Um and Albers also changed andmanipulated the lighting in the
studio, um, and, and he arrangedthese above his work table and
would sort of modify them tocreate different patterns of
light, temperature, to try andreplicate different times of day
(31:31):
or whatever else.
So then the process of paintingitself.
Well, as I said, he used thepalette knife and he would use,
uh, the oil paint that he wouldsqueeze onto the board straight
out of the tube, um, and hewould then work from the center
(31:52):
outwards, where he would.
There's footage of him verymeticulously using the sort of
side blade of this palette knifeup against these lines and then
sort of slowly, sort ofspreading it out, almost as if
he's spreading butter on bread.
(32:12):
He used more than 600 varietiesof color in these series of
paintings, and over the courseof this time from 1950 to 1976,
he made more than a thousandpaintings.
So the board was laid flat onthe table, the lines were drawn,
(32:33):
the light was modulated andthen the paint was applied In a
single layer, free hand, movingdefinitely outwards from the
centre.
And this actually was, I shouldsay, a very practical way of
working, and this is againsomething that he learned from
his father.
His father taught him as ayoungster of working, um, and
this is again something that helearned from his father Um, his
(32:54):
father, uh, taught him as ayoungster not to, um, not to
carry wet paint over alreadypainted areas in case of
dripping or splashing.
So he's sort of moving outwards, um, so he's not kind of
bringing paint over alreadycompleted areas, um.
But these, these lines that hemade are from a distance they
(33:16):
kind of appear quite perfect, um, almost machine made, but then
when you look at them close upyou can see that they're, you
know they're, they're actuallynot perfect.
There's a very clearly the handof the artist in their making
and they have beautiful, smoothsurfaces.
(33:40):
The other, let's see what arethe other distinguishing
characteristics of thesepaintings.
He was very obsessive about it,so I guess I feel I should be
very clear and accurate.
Accurate about what, whatproperties they consist of.
Each painting, or more or lesseach painting, actually lists
(34:03):
the materials on the back.
So there are descriptions onthe back of every panel with the
names of the colors that heuses.
So this is a very sort ofinstructive, historic document,
also for scholars.
And so that's what they are.
But what were they intending tobe?
(34:26):
What did they mean?
Well, for Albus, he felt verystrongly that color was the sort
of defining thing in ourexperience of art, that art was
um really defined by, by color,and and for him every color has
the power to change every othercolor.
(34:46):
So it was really a sort of asearch to explore the limitless
permutations of how color reactsand activates other colors, and
how colors can change dependingon which colors you put next to
them.
You have warmth, you havecoldness, you have different
(35:07):
emotional or spiritualevocations.
He even equated color withdifferent kinds of moralities.
Um, so for him, color was verymuch a living, breathing thing.
Um, and the thing about thearrangement, you know, the, the,
the, the squares, I mean thesquares, to Albers, were sort of
(35:33):
there's a sort of paradox aboutthem.
They were essential, but they,to him, they were also somehow
unimportant, because the squareswas not, was not a design unto
itself, but but really a vehicleto enable to see the color and
to see the colors in this wayadjacent to each other.
(35:56):
So the format really enabled himto continue doing this
limitlessly and forever, withoutever repeating himself.
So the concentric squares werereally the ultimate vessel to
explore his key objective, andhe described it thus thus when I
achieved that, I made you docreative seeing of colors, and
(36:19):
this is my real aim, not thepaintings.
So this repetition, this is,this is really related to his
key idea that there is no end tocolor.
Um, the device, thecompositional device, he
actually described as a prisonum in which he put the colors.
(36:39):
So really the colors havenowhere to go other than um
react with each other, come sortof, sometimes oscillate a
little bit.
His work was very influentialin terms of the op art movement
of the 1960s and sometimes thecolors show that they maybe
(37:00):
either sort of recede or theycome forwards, depending on
these relational qualitiesbetween the colors.
Jeppe Curth (37:13):
Okay, nick.
So why should a collectorconsider adding Albert's work to
their collection?
I mean, of course it makessense if one is interested in
acquiring an important piece ofmodernist art, but these are
hardly a secret, and the factthat Albert's foundation has
been represented by DavidSchwerner for almost a decade
(37:35):
suggests that they are probablyquite expensive.
Is there value here for acollector looking to buy
something important that stillhas potential to grow?
Nichlas Robinson (37:46):
Well, I think so, and that's, of course, why
we've arrived at this point, andmaybe it seems like a long
preamble to discuss his market,but I think that the purpose of
describing his working life theway I have done is to really try
at least to demonstrate that heis kind of at the epicenter of
(38:09):
so many of the key turningpoints in the 20th century how
modernism developed, how ideasabout painting became
increasingly um, reductivist,paired back Um.
You know, of course, we knowthe term minimalism very well,
but you know this, this camefrom um the ideas that people
(38:33):
like Albers had, and one of thekey people, stripping away,
stripping away, stripping awayto get to the most elemental
components of painting in orderfor painting to somehow not only
justify itself but fulfill itstrue purpose, true purpose.
(38:54):
So, anyway, when we think aboutAlbers in the market, the key
thing about his, his, his marketis that there are, there are
lots of these um homage to thesquare paintings he, as I said,
he made.
He made more than a thousand Um, so there are always
opportunities to acquire them.
But the good thing about anyevolving market is that, of
course, they, they ultimatelythey do get scarcer over time as
more and more disappear intocollections, where they tend to
(39:16):
to become very, very cherished.
And because there's such amilestone of 20th century art,
their importance is likely to beincreasingly understood rather
than become less respected.
So my feeling about this body ofwork is that history will be
more and more kind to it, whichwill tend to, of course, well,
(39:38):
that's value in one sense, butthen that tends to sort of
parlay into value, uh, marketvalue in another sense, um.
So if we, if we look into the,the some of the key um sort of
data points of, of his points,of his market, and actually what
I should say, before I get intothat, is that there are many
(40:00):
different uh sizes of homage tothe square paintings.
The smallest is 16 by 16 inchesum, which is uh more or less 40
or 41 square centimeters, andthen the largest is 48 inches
square, which is 1.22 meterssquare, and there's lots of
(40:22):
different incremental sizes inbetween.
So you know, it's obviouslypossible to maybe as we can look
into in a moment maybe buy asmaller one representing very
good value.
So anyway, the overview of hismarket is not only that, this is
a seminal art, historical thing.
(40:46):
There are numerous opportunitiesto buy, often at auction.
54 examples of homage to thesquare paintings have been sold
at auction since 2022.
Um, the lowest price for whichwas $230,000 for an 18 by 18
inch.
That's a 46 square centimeterpainting.
(41:08):
Um there's a global reach um theU S, germany, uk and
Switzerland are the leading uhvenues or nations for
transaction volume and of course, that gives us a really good
snapshot of where the key powerin the art market lies.
(41:30):
These are the four biggest ormost major centers um but
distributed um worldwide.
Um of course, he hasunimpeachable institutional
validation Um he's representedin every major museum collection
anywhere ever.
Um and there's also a verystrong foundation, the Joseph
(41:53):
and Annie Albers foundation inConnecticut.
Um are very powerful custodiansof the work and, in tandem with
the, the uh sort of partnershipwith David's Werner since 2016,
they have a very uh controlleduh development of of the market.
(42:13):
I guess another useful overviewor way to sort of summarize um
uh his his appeal Um.
He has an 83, 3% sell throughrate at auction Um and probably
even some of the failures aredown to a condition.
So almost always sell and inrecent years, over 70% of the
(42:39):
auction results have exceededthe high estimate.
So this is a very highperforming thing that continues
to go from strength to strength.
Jeppe Curth (42:50):
Good Thanks, Nick.
Do you know how many Elvisworks sales at auction every
year?
Nichlas Robinson (42:56):
um, well, I I don't know you're probably going
to give me a number that maybeis not reflective of only the
homage of the square paintings.
No, because there are alsoprints.
Yes, there are wood blocks,there are other types of
paintings and things.
I mean there is a large I meanhe's a he was an old man when he
died and working consistentlysince 1920.
(43:17):
So it was more than half acentury of production.
Jeppe Curth (43:20):
But it's over 200 works.
Yeah, okay, which also is quitea liquid market in terms of
that.
Yeah, look into it.
So what kind of Elvis workswould you suggest present the
best opportunity for collectors?
Nichlas Robinson (43:35):
Well, I've alluded to the fact that there
are different sizes 16 by 16, 18by 18, 24 inch, 28 inch square,
30 by 30, 32, 40 by 40, 48 inch.
Now, if we look at the biggersizes, um, now, if we look at
the bigger sizes, we can seethat the prices are typically
(43:58):
quite high.
Anything from sort of 76centimeters square above tends
to achieve a pretty high price.
Um, so the record price, justas a instructive note, the
record price for a 30 by 30 inchpainting is $2 million.
The record price for a 32 by 32inch painting is which is the
overall record price at auction,incidentally, $3 million, 40 by
(44:22):
40, 2.95, and there was a 48inch square painting sold quite
some time ago for 2.2 million.
I'm sure it would fetchenormously more than that today.
So these are all between twoand $3 million, 30 by 30 inches
and above.
But if we look at the recordprice for a 16 by 16 or an 18 by
(44:46):
18, the record price of thesetwo respectively is 850K and
762K is 850K and 762K.
So there's an enormousdiscrepancy between the prices
that the smaller paintingsachieve and the larger paintings
achieve.
And yet the actual sort ofpresence of these paintings is
not so different and the kind ofexperience that they provide is
(45:13):
not so different.
So my suggestion is thatthere's a lot of value in the
smaller size paintings and if webreak that down even further,
we can say that four squares aregenerally more desirable than
three.
Some of the paintings, as Imentioned, have three nested
squares, some four.
So four, of course, course,means one extra color and all of
(45:35):
the sort of extra experientialqualities that you get from four
colors reacting alongside eachother than three.
Some of them have slightvariations on the simplicity of
the format, where there's someuh, sort of canted corners or
some extra lines, where there'sa sort of a slight change in the
(45:59):
formula, if you will.
Um, uh, the simplest format isthe best, where none of these
sort of extra modifications havebeen have been implemented.
Um, and then I would saytonality, and by that I mean
works that uh, uh, executed inmore or less the same color
(46:21):
family, tend to have a certainsort of uh.
The record painting wasactually for a, um, a painting
that that that consisted of verywarm reds, so it had an
incredible, um, sort ofpulsating beauty to it.
(46:45):
Um, similarly very, you know,golden yellows or, um, yeah,
very, very rich blues.
I mean all of these kinds ofones would be very, very highly
prized.
Some of the works have verystrange dissonant color
combinations and I think there'sactually an interesting
(47:05):
opportunity in these works.
These are more sort of radicalessays in how colors react.
For example, there's some thathave sort of blues and greens
with a sort of strange brown orbrowny yellow.
These are his experimentswhereby, you know, the color
(47:29):
itself might be yellow, but thepresence of the yellow makes the
colors alongside it look eitherblue or green, and so these are
also have sometimes a tonalitythat looks very much of the
period.
The sort of colors youassociate with, I don't know.
(47:52):
I'm going to be very crass hereand say you know, bathroom
tiles from the sixties or theseventies.
So so maybe they have a sort of, uh, slightly dated or vintage
quality because the palette isredolent of a certain period.
Now, I think these are greatbecause you know they actually
feel very much like they are oftheir time.
(48:13):
Um, maybe the more expensiveones have a certain universal
quality, but maybe these have acertain sort of like period
document quality, um, and Ithink there's an opportunity in
those.
Anyway, if we cut to the, youknow we've given a sort of
overview of the record prices,but for all the formats, I'm
(48:34):
going to go from the 16 by 16,the lowest price in the last
three years 250,.
18 by 18,.
Lowest price last three years230,.
30 by 30, lowest 411,.
32 by 32, 220.
Now don't forget that the 30 by32, 32 by 32 format, the record
price is $3 million, yet thelowest price in the last three
(48:56):
years is 220K.
Now, these are all.
These are all things that comeup at auction and maybe you know
there's a bad economy or maybethere's just, you know, a simple
a fact as just sort of fallingthrough the gaps in terms of
public consciousness.
Maybe it's a small provincialauction house somewhere.
(49:17):
There are opportunities, butthere are also pitfalls and the
things to look out for.
Of course, you know the typicalthings that I've mentioned in
terms of the qualitative aspects, artistically, but then when
you have the, the same tonalfamily, it's important that
(49:38):
there's a clear distinctionbetween the squares so you see a
clear reaction in the differentblocks of color.
A good provenance is nice.
Of course, the, the, thecomprehensive annotations on the
back are also desirable, but akey thing is condition.
Now, some of them have aproblematic condition.
(49:59):
Albers would paint thesepaintings and then sometimes he
would varnish them because hewould want to see the color
before and after varnishing.
That would change the way thelight hit the surface.
It would change the tonality ofthe color that was underneath
the varnish.
And this was not a very wisearchival choice.
(50:21):
This was a choice that he madeto see them sort of in the
moment, without thinking aboutthe sort of longevity of them as
objects.
So then he would sometimes evenpaint over the top of the
varnish which you get.
Some of them you have reallybad cracking and peeling and
it's very important to ensurethat that that there hasn't been
(50:45):
a lot of restoration or that itis in, you know, a sound
condition that will stay sound.
Jeppe Curth (50:52):
Okay, Nick.
So just to be clear, why do webelieve it's still
underappreciated by the marketrelative to its high price and
cultural importance?
Nichlas Robinson (51:01):
Well, because there are enough of them that
you can still snaffle them upfor inexpensive prices.
I've just given you an overviewof the low prices for various
size formats in the last threeyears 250, 230, 220, but various
size formats in the last threeyears 250, 230, 220, you know,
(51:21):
almost irrespective of size, youcan find these paintings and
you know these are paintingsthat their sort of brethren
fetch $3 million.
It's not such a stretch to feellike, as his market continues to
sort of grow and it's a marketthat, incidentally, has just
grown steadily over time, overeasily 20 years where, or more
where, it's been firmly acceptedas a, as part of this sort of
(51:43):
pantheon of great art making ofthe 20th century.
So you know they're not evergoing to be less than that.
And as everything else becomesmore expensive, maybe these
won't radically appreciate.
But if you wish to have a verysort of solid blue chip holding,
you know you could reasonablyexpect that if you get one of
these, if you have a $200,000painting, you'll end up with a
(52:04):
$400,000 painting.
If you get a $400,000 painting,the least you can reasonably
expect is that you'll have a$600,000 painting.
Maybe it will take a few years,but it's a very safe, solid,
risk-averse thing to put moneyinto and a very iconic thing to
enjoy as you do so.
Jeppe Curth (52:23):
Yes, and we have also been buying, offering,
advising clients with privateworks from Joseph Elvis that
have never been on auctions.
Nichlas Robinson (52:32):
Yes, that's true, I mean they can be found,
you know, and the thing too Iguess is key is that the auction
market and the private marketalso represents an opportunity
relative to the works thatZwirner has, either from the
foundation or works that hesources.
I mean he will sell a 76 squarecentimetre painting, you know,
(52:55):
for more than a million dollars.
I'm 1.2, 1.4 million dollars, Imean, are some recent prices
that I've seen with works by him, and I've seen similar works
that have been possible toacquire on the private market
for 8, 9, 950, less than amillion.
Jeppe Curth (53:14):
So, you know's, it's doable so, nigga, this has
been a quite a long episode, butI also think we made a deep
dive into his life, which wasquite important to understand
how important culture he uhfigure, he is.
Um, any final thoughts?
(53:35):
Anything you uh think?
Nichlas Robinson (53:39):
is um worth mentioning.
Yeah, I mean you know there's.
There's a lot of informationabout Albus.
Um, they have a very nice the.
The found the Albus foundationhas a really nice website which
gives so much information on the, which gives so much
information on the um sort ofadds vitality to, to, to the
information, if you like, whereyou can see a lot of timelines
(54:00):
and archival information in, in,in in the life of the Albers
it's.
It's really really beautiful Um.
But the conclusion generally isis, is that?
Um?
Well, I guess the marketnarrative is that it's a.
It's a very stable market.
It's not a speculative market.
It's highly suited to a sort ofstrategic holding.
(54:21):
So it's ideal for verycommitted long-term collectors,
people that want to see theirart as a very solid repository
of cash, of liquidity.
Solid repository of cash, ofliquidity, um, obviously
something that you can put moneyinto.
(54:41):
That has um incredible culturaldepth, um and resonance for the
entire sort of history of 20thcentury art production.
Um, and very strong financialfundamentals underpinning um the
kind of commitment to theseworks.
So it's very relevant for thosewho want to allocate some
capital towards um, this sort oflegacy modernism that will
(55:05):
never lose its high statuswithin the art world.
Jeppe Curth (55:09):
Um, yeah, so if anybody want to acquire, they
can look at auction.
They can of course write DavidSchwerner, they can call us as
well yes, yeah, there's lots ofthank you, thank you, yeah, and
I guess that's all for us thistime yeah, I think we've, we've
done as much as we can good bye,bye, bye that was it for this
(55:34):
episode of the Collector's Edge.
If you are looking for expertinsights, want to make informed
decisions and would like advicefrom independent advisors, send
us an email or maybe just callus.
You can find all the info onour website nordegardpartnerscom
.
Thank you for listening and wehope to have you back for
(55:56):
another episode.
Bye.
Hi and welcome to the Collector's Edge for Nordic
Art Partners.
In today's episode, we willexplore the career and market of
Joseph Albers, one of the mostinfluenced abstract artists and
color theorists of the 20thcentury.
Joining me, as always, is ourart expert, nicolas Robinson,
and I'm your host, Jeppe Curth.
Let's get started.
It is with Alex Rotter at 400million Selling here at
(00:24):
Christie's.
Nichlas Robinson (00:24):
$400 million is the bid and the piece is sold
.
We've all heard about it.
Sometimes it's front-page newsImportant works of art are being
sold for incredible sums ofmoney, but can you get involved
and become a part of theexclusive club yourself, and how
do you get started whileavoiding buying the wrong things
(00:46):
?
That's exactly what thispodcast is about.
This is the Collector's Edgefrom Nordic Art Partners, a
podcast for those of youinterested in the mechanics of
the art industry, want adviceabout putting money into art, or
simply want to buy somethingfor your walls, to beautify your
surroundings.
Whatever your objectives, it ispossible to put money into art
(01:10):
wisely, to be consideredthoughtful and well-informed in
your choices and actions.
Welcome to the art ofcollecting with an eye for
curated beauty and practicalvalue.
Jeppe Curth (01:26):
Hi Nick.
Nichlas Robinson (01:27):
Good morning.
Jeppe Curth (01:29):
Good morning.
How are you doing Very well,thank you.
How are you today?
I'm good.
I'm good and especially becausewe're going to talk about
Joseph Albers.
Nichlas Robinson (01:37):
Yes, we have a lot to get through.
He's obviously a toweringfigure.
Jeppe Curth (01:41):
Yeah, yeah, exactly .
But, nick, normally we usuallytalk about artists who are
either rising or rediscovering,but Josef Albers is different.
He feels different, right?
Um?
He's already in every museum,he's in every art history book,
so why are we using our time andtalking about him today?
Nichlas Robinson (02:01):
well, I think it's possible for an artist to
have all of these credentialsand yet somehow still be
underrated, and we are going totalk about just why we think
that that is the case.
There's a lot of differentkinds of works that he made and
lots of different kinds ofopportunities that it presents
(02:21):
for people who are interested incollecting one of the
unquestionably most significantfigures in the history of
modernism and 20th century art.
Jeppe Curth (02:32):
Yes, good, and also you probably need some deep
pockets this time to get atJosep Albert.
But let's get back to that.
Well, we'll find out.
Yeah, exactly as always.
Let's start, how we usually do,by go backwards and and talk a
little bit about his background?
Nichlas Robinson (02:49):
uh, certainly we can do that.
Um, where to begin really?
Uh, his entire uh had a verylong life, um, spanning the bulk
of the the 20th century, and Ithink you know we can.
First of all, let's just sortof summarize him and what he's
(03:11):
known for, I guess, is maybe agood place to start.
The reason why we're talkingabout him today is that is that
I think myself and many otherpeople would consider him and
his work to be the mostsignificant bridge between
European and American modernismIn the 20th century.
There was a sort of a leap, ifyou will, taking place in the
(03:34):
post-war period, where New Yorkassumed sort of primacy, taking
over from Paris, which had beenthe sort of undisputed center of
modern art practice,progressive art practice in the
earlier part of the 20th century.
And Albers is a very importantfigure who has a seminal role in
(03:56):
sort of both of theseenvironments.
So that's the first thing andwhat he's known for.
Well, he's known for spendingreally an entire career very
focused into his sort ofinvestigations into the
perceptual properties of color.
So it's a very narrow anddisciplined approach that he has
(04:19):
taken towards his view of art,his ideas about art, but we'll
come on to that more in a bit.
Um, so to begin, uh, we canrewind back to the very
beginning.
Uh, he was born in in 1888 inPrussia.
Um, his, uh, his father was ageneral contractor and and very
(04:43):
proficient in all manner ofhandiwork, uh things necessary
to build, build uh, carpentry,plumbing.
So when albus was was a veryyoung boy and a young man, his
father was very, um influentialin that he trained joseph the
young joseph in variousmaterials and techniques,
(05:05):
teaching him about theirproperties, how to use them,
manipulate them.
So a very, very importantpractical foundation that Albers
always was to fall back on.
From 1908 until 1913, he workedas a school teacher.
1908 until 1913, he worked as aschool teacher.
(05:29):
Initially he was teaching youngchildren as a generalist.
But he had a very kind ofimportant sort of seismic event
in his life, if you like.
In 1908, he saw two paintingsby Cézanne at the Volkwang
Museum in Essen, and this washis first experience of really
visiting art, but also, morenotably, of being very
(05:49):
viscerally moved by it, and hewas always to recall this
experience as one that reallymade him feel that somehow his
life had changed forever withthis experience.
So at the end of this sort ofmini period.
In 1913, he gained a teachingqualification as an art teacher,
and this is when he actuallybegins to start making art for
(06:13):
the first time.
In 1919, he enrolled in theRoyal Bavarian Academy of Fine
Arts in Munich and interestinglyand this is a little bit why I
refer to him as as has sort ofspanning an entire century,
because in Munich he was taughtby Franz von Stuck.
Now von Stuck was a leadingfigure in German art at the end
(06:37):
of the 19th century and hisstyle was very strongly
associated with the sort of lateromanticism and symbolism of
that time.
And he, as a teacher, was alsoto count Paul Klee and Vasily
Kandinsky among his students.
So this was Albers' firstintroduction to being taught art
(07:01):
at a high level.
Jeppe Curth (07:03):
So Albers is now a teacher, and this will become a
key part of his identity formany years to come.
Nichlas Robinson (07:11):
Well, yes, I mean, his entire life was spent
as a teacher, as an educator,and the role he played in that
part of his life is, of course,inseparable from the role he
played developing his own work.
His teaching was a sort of avehicle for him to develop and
(07:34):
evolve his theories, and then,of course, his own work was the
means by which he performedthese theories in a practical
sense, performed these theoriesin a practical sense.
So in 1920, this is a very keyphase now for Albers in 1920, he
(08:00):
joined the Weimar Bauhaus as astudent.
Now the Bauhaus had beenfounded one year previously by
Walter Kropius, architect uh, aleading modernist architect, one
of the very first architectspracticing what we describe as
the international style, alsopracticed by uh, most famously,
le Corbusier uh in France.
So he went to study at theBauhaus um, and he was very
(08:22):
interested in in working withglass.
But there were a lot of.
There was shortage of materials, there was very high inflation
in Germany at the time, and soit was very difficult for him to
get his hands on the kinds ofthings that he wanted to use to
incorporate into his work.
So he found himself making sortof assemblage type works from
(08:45):
discarded materials, especiallyglass.
He describes process wherebyhe's sort of breaking old
bottles in order to getdifferent colored and shaped
shards that he can utilize toincorporate into his work.
He also innovated a process ofpainting on glass that involved
sandblasting.
But such was his sort ofinnovative um kind of
(09:07):
contribution to life in theBauhaus that that he was invited
to become a faculty member in1922.
Um, another key thing happenedto him in 1922.
He met his future wife, in fact, um, who was, whose name was
shortened to Annie, but her namewas annelise, annelise
fleischman, uh, the daughter ofa of a well-to-do furniture
(09:30):
manufacturer.
Um, she was actually initiallyturned down uh for entry, uh
into the bauhaus, but joseph,her sort of helped her um sort
of rework and prepare her, herapproach, approach to the
admission tests, and eventuallyshe was admitted and she then
went to conduct her studies inthe weaving workshop.
(09:54):
She would actually subsequentlyalso come to direct the weaving
workshop.
So in due course she alsofollowed the same path as Albus,
her husband Joseph, wherebythey began life as students and
they were so sort ofinextricably intertwined with
the life of this place, thisinstitution, that they also came
(10:16):
to work there.
In 1923, albus was invited byKorpius to teach the forecourse
or the preliminary course, andthis is an important sort of
foundation course and the dutiesof which he shared with another
incredibly important artist,laszlo Moholy-Nagy.
(10:37):
Now some people mistakenlythink of Albers as being one of
the, as being a teaching uh, asort of a painting teacher, but
that's actually not the case.
The painting masters at thebauhaus were kandinsky and clay.
If you recall his um sort oferstwhile um.
Other students from uh, thefranz von, stuck years um, but
(11:02):
these guys were teaching thepainting course and Albers was
teaching various other things.
He, he, he taught design, he,he, he was involved in uh in in
glass.
He was involved in uh.
He even designed um a chair, uhdesigned some type faces, so it
was very much involved ingraphic design sort of informal
(11:25):
education under the tutelage ofhis father was very instrumental
in his um very sort ofpractical approach to all of
(11:49):
these different disciplines Inuh.
1925 was a was a key year uh inthe Bauhaus.
That is when the school movedinto their uh buildings, the
famous buildings designed byKorpiusius, moving from Weimar
to Dessau.
And in 1925, when this movetook place, he was promoted to
(12:13):
professor.
He married Annie and the two ofthem lived in one of the
master's residences Annie,continuing in the weaving
workshop, and Joseph involved in, like I mentioned, carpentry,
metalwork, glass, graphic design, very much an early proponent
of very clean and effectivedesign whereby form would follow
(12:36):
function.
In terms of his own work atthis time he designed some large
scale windows for a newly builtmuseum, also tableware, in
addition to some of the otherthings that I've already
mentioned, um.
So this was a real, possiblythe most, um kind of influential
(12:58):
generation of artist educatorsin the entire 20th century,
other than another place whichwe will come on to shortly,
which Albus was also involved in, but the faculty at the Bauhaus
at this time included Paul Klee, kandinsky, as I mentioned,
oskar Schlemmer, marholinage,marcel Breuer, johannes Itten,
(13:19):
lionel Feininger, herbert Bayerand Marianne Brandt.
So this is really a sort of abrain's trust of art and design
in this early modern period.
But this period, sadly, was notto last.
We all know, unfortunately,what happened to Germany and
what started to happen toGermany at this time.
(13:41):
Well, in 1933, the, thenational socialist government,
came to power and the Bauhauswas very much under threat.
It was, of course, a veryprogressive institution and
things that were progressive atthis time were considered uh,
degenerate um by the Nazis.
(14:01):
So the school was actually umuh, people think that it was it
was shut down by the, the Nazis.
It's actually not, strictlyspeaking, the case.
Um, it was closed voluntarilyby the faculty um really born
from their refusal to complywith the educational dictates,
uh, the staffing rules, etcetera, of of the Nazi regime.
(14:24):
So at this key time the Alberswere now unemployed and also
very much aware of theuncertainty and the problematic
implications of Annie beingJewish.
So this brings us to a verypivotal moment in their life.
So in 1933, annie, annie um met, coincidentally, the young
(14:48):
American architect PhilipJohnson.
She ran into him in Berlin Uh,they had previously met at the
Bauhaus Um, but they werelooking at some uh design work
that the that Annie was showinghim in hers and Joseph's house,
and he asked her if she wantedto go to America.
(15:10):
She talked to Joseph.
She determined that, yes, theywanted to go to America, but
emigration was potentiallycomplicated at this time.
But the Albers' reputation asimportant art theorists and also
Annie's friendship with PhilipJohnson were to prove
instrumental.
(15:30):
This was a sort of a key factorin their ability to transition
from Europe to the United States.
Also, behind the scenes therewere some highly influential
patrons making arrangements.
Johnson himself was extremelywell connected, um, and probably
through him there cameassociations with um john d
(15:53):
rockefeller ii and his wife andedward warburg.
Uh, collectively they uhlobbied for their immigration
permissions, also paying a firstclass steamship fare for them.
But the reason that they went toAmerica wasn't just to
speculatively, you know, escapefrom the tumult of Europe.
(16:14):
It was because they had aspecific thing to go to and that
was to be the foundingprofessors of Black Mountain
College.
So Black Mountain College wasfounded in 1933.
And it was a liberal artscollege in North Carolina that
(16:40):
was unique for its educationalapproach, where an emphasis on
art and creativity was the corediscipline for all students.
And the interesting thing aboutBlack Mountain, which I suppose
is a little bit of an analogueto the Bauhaus, is that it has
developed some of the mostseminal and influential American
(17:01):
artists of the 20th century,really those who shaped the
entire cultural life of thesecond half of the century
across numerous disciplines.
So you had Joseph and Annie andtheir colleagues, the other
professors, including theexperimental composer John Cage,
(17:21):
whose first musical happeningtook place at Black Mountain,
the inventor, the architect,theorist, buckminster Fuller,
who was responsible for buildingthe first geodesic dome.
He was on the faculty there.
Einstein was a guest lecturerthere too, and some of the other
members of the faculty, eitherpermanent or visiting the other
members of the faculty eitherpermanent or visiting Elaine and
(17:45):
Willem de Kooning, franz Klein,aaron Siskind the leading
photographer was a studentinitially and then a professor.
Robert Motherwell, merceCunningham he formed his dance
company there, and then some ofthe students that Albers was
(18:08):
responsible for teaching includesome of the most notable
artists from the United States,including Robert Rauschenberg,
cy Twombly, ruth Asawa.
So anyway, this is a little bitof an overview of of of Albers
as a teacher, and I know itseems like a lot of information,
but we can't really overstatehow, how, how instrumental he
(18:30):
was in in communicating, youknow, his, his ideas.
We're going to, we're going tocome on to what those ideas
consist of Um, but there's a,there's a lot of anecdotal
information about his time atBlack Mountain, um.
He was very, you know, deeplyadmired and loved as a, as a, as
a professor, um.
(18:50):
His English initially wasextremely limited and to begin
with Annie performed uh,translating juices for him, um,
but because his grasp of Englishwas, was, was, small, um, his
seminars were highly visual andhe was very uh.
You know he was very um, youknow he was very gesticulatory
(19:20):
and highly encouraging ofstudents to express themselves.
So a funny sort of story.
Dating back to this time, hisfirst ever statement as a
teacher in English was mostlikely dictated by his limited
grasp of the language.
So he was asked what hisoverriding philosophy or what
his, I guess, didactic approachwas to the course that he would
(19:40):
teach, and he replied verysimply to open eyes.
So from 33 to 49, he was ateacher at Black Mountain.
But by 1949, there were variousinternal divisions as to the
direction of the college.
It was becoming a little bitriven with friction and conflict
(20:03):
.
So that prompted the Albers toleave and move to New York.
And that same year, in 49,annie was the first woman and
the first textile artist to havea solo show at the Museum of
Modern Art.
So that goes to show you, eventhough they are teachers and
educators, that goes to show youthe standing that they had.
(20:26):
And yes, this, this, this, thispod, is about Joseph Albers.
But but I think that we can't,that we can't speak about one
without the other.
They were extremely important,symbiotically to each other,
professionally and personally,and they both, you know, kind of
developed alongside each other,encouraged each other,
(20:48):
supported each other, supportedeach other.
But in 1949, they left, andthen in 1950, joseph was
appointed the head of the newlyformed Department of Design at
Yale University.
So even here he was not apainting professor but a
professor in the Department ofDesign, and 1950 is a key year
(21:10):
because this is the year that hebegins making his homage to the
square paintings.
But anyway, we will return tothis group of works shortly.
But again, we cannot overstatehis influence, even whilst at
Yale there are numerousimportant alumni that came
through the college under histutelage, including Eva Hess,
(21:36):
richard Anuskovich, neilWelliver a real who's who of
late 20th century, importantartists working in a variety of
styles, but all of whom cameinto contact with him and were
deeply touched by his approachto teaching.
I'm just going to say one morething about his teaching.
Philosophy is a nice quotationthat I found.
(21:58):
He said I have not taughtpainting because it cannot be
taught.
I have taught seeing.
What I taught was philosophy ofform, the philosophy of lines,
the philosophy of colors.
Jeppe Curth (22:11):
Thank you, nick.
So you have covered his ideasabout teaching art.
Um, I think we should talk alittle bit about making art.
Um, what kind of work did hemade and can you give us an
overview, maybe also timeline,and even a description of his
painting, maybe his key body ofworks?
Nichlas Robinson (22:33):
yes, of course um.
So, as I alluded to at thebeginning, the key, the key
theme of his entire working lifeand teaching life was was color
the way color, the way color isperceived and the way chromatic
um contrasts are perceived andthe way chromatic um contrasts
(22:53):
are perceived and the way colorreacts when, when um when placed
adjacent to other colors, andhow the colors can essentially
activate each other in differentways.
But his own work, um, as I'vementioned, he made his glass
works at the Bauhaus.
His first key works in colourwere actually made out of glass.
(23:20):
He was always very fascinatedby the properties of glass, how
essentially light could reactwith and activate the color in
glass.
And he made some very importantgridded works whilst at the
Bauhaus, whereby squares ofcolored glass were arranged in a
(23:40):
grid with a sort of solderedmetal frame holding these small
tiles, rather like a sort of amosaic.
Almost In 1934 was when hereally started to sort of paint
in oil.
So of course he'd been workingas an artist prior to this, but
he had been making a lot of umsort of object based based works
(24:04):
.
Um, he and he and he startedtraveling a little bit, uh, and
in 34, he actually exhibited umsome woodcut works in Havana um
1936, 37.
Throughout the 1940s Um, hestarted painting on Masonite um,
(24:24):
which was a key material forhim throughout his working life,
and these works, you know, showa sort of inexorable
development towards the homageto the square works that we
shall come on to um, showingdifferent ways that line and
color can react together inthese very um sort of
(24:59):
disciplined um compositionalforms there's.
There are some sort ofreminiscences of other
practitioners from this time,maybe ben nicholson naombo, some
other artists whose work youcan sort of see a little bit in
his early paintings.
(25:20):
In the late 1940s he and Anniewere to travel to Mexico, which
became a very significant placefor them.
He developed a body of worksthat immediately preceded the
Homage to the Square works, andthese are sort of colloquially
known as his Adobe works.
(25:41):
He was very interested in thearchitectural vernacular of
Mexico, the way that the formswere constructed, the way that
the forms were constructed, thefenestration of the buildings,
the repetition of these forms.
He actually took huge amountsof photographs of these
(26:03):
buildings too, and he startedmaking paintings that were a
sort of reductive interpretationof these forms, always in these
very sort of flat blocks ofcolor showing the interplay of
color and form.
I think I read somewhere theywent maybe 13 times by the late
(26:25):
1960s.
So anyway, this is this.
This Adobe series that he beganin 47 on one of their journeys
to Mexico was actually during asabbatical from teaching at
Black Mountain.
He has a sort of quote aboutthis which is very sort of
(26:45):
germane to his homage series.
He said all variants are builton an underlying checkerboard
like structure.
This provides a definiterelationship of all parts and
therefore a unification of formIn each painting.
The areas of the various colorsare in most cases equal.
I have deprived myself of greatlight contrasts.
(27:06):
All colors remain on a mediumlevel of intensity.
There is no modulation.
All color areas are flat andhave definite shapes joining
along the contours tightly.
By that he means these sort ofhard-edged blocks of color
butting up against each other.
So this is a range of effects,if you like, that he's started
(27:29):
to develop that are quitelimited in their scope and allow
for a certain repetition.
And this format excited him andhe actually continued to paint
these Adobe works until 1966, atwhich point his focus to the
(27:51):
homage to the square took overcompletely.
Jeppe Curth (27:54):
Okay, thank you, nick.
So homage to the square works.
It seems impossible to lookpast these big crowning
achievements.
Tell us about them, and maybealso what they mean.
Nichlas Robinson (28:06):
Well, the homage to the square became his.
You know his sort of defininglife's work, if you will.
You know his sort of defininglife's work, if you will.
Um, he first started makingthem in 1950 when he took up the
teaching position at Yale.
Um, and he made them until theend of his life in 1976.
(28:30):
So this is a format, uh, thathe worked on obsessively and, as
I mentioned, exclusively after1966, um, and, if you like, uh
was was recognized at the timeas the most sort of exhaustive,
(28:54):
rigorous study of color in artat this time.
And in 1971, this series ofpaintings, they were the subject
, actually, of the first eversolo show devoted to a living
artist at the MetropolitanMuseum in New York.
So, anyway, this homage to thesquare, what are they?
(29:16):
Well, each is on Masonite,which is a kind of a sort of
composite wooden board, and it'sit's just painted on the rough
side of the material.
Each consists of three or foursquares.
Now, sometimes people say thatthey are squares within squares,
(29:38):
or nested squares.
So you basically have three orfour squares set on top of each
other but instead of beingarranged centrally, every single
one of these paintings issquare as well.
The Masonite board is squareand the painted squares, the
(30:03):
center of the painted squares,is actually moved down, so that
the spaces between the squaresare much sort of tighter at the
bottom than they are at the top.
So this gives them a kind of alittle bit of a feeling of
movement, so that the squaresare sort of activated or the
(30:28):
color becomes sort of animatedor maybe not so static in some
way.
So anyway, you have three orfour squares.
Each of the squares is paintedin a different color, and the
way he painted was with apalette knife.
He always used a palette knifeto apply the color, and the
(30:48):
reason he used Masonite actuallyis because he was sort of
spreading with this knife.
It was the firmness of theMasonite surface provided a
better resistance for theapplication than a canvas would,
which of course is more springy, I guess.
So these panels, prior to hispainting the colors, they were
(31:10):
always covered with at least sixcoats of white primer.
Um and Albers also changed andmanipulated the lighting in the
studio, um, and, and he arrangedthese above his work table and
would sort of modify them tocreate different patterns of
light, temperature, to try andreplicate different times of day
(31:31):
or whatever else.
So then the process of paintingitself.
Well, as I said, he used thepalette knife and he would use,
uh, the oil paint that he wouldsqueeze onto the board straight
out of the tube, um, and hewould then work from the center
(31:52):
outwards, where he would.
There's footage of him verymeticulously using the sort of
side blade of this palette knifeup against these lines and then
sort of slowly, sort ofspreading it out, almost as if
he's spreading butter on bread.
(32:12):
He used more than 600 varietiesof color in these series of
paintings, and over the courseof this time from 1950 to 1976,
he made more than a thousandpaintings.
So the board was laid flat onthe table, the lines were drawn,
(32:33):
the light was modulated andthen the paint was applied In a
single layer, free hand, movingdefinitely outwards from the
centre.
And this actually was, I shouldsay, a very practical way of
working, and this is againsomething that he learned from
his father.
His father taught him as ayoungster of working, um, and
this is again something that helearned from his father Um, his
(32:54):
father, uh, taught him as ayoungster not to, um, not to
carry wet paint over alreadypainted areas in case of
dripping or splashing.
So he's sort of moving outwards, um, so he's not kind of
bringing paint over alreadycompleted areas, um.
But these, these lines that hemade are from a distance they
(33:16):
kind of appear quite perfect, um, almost machine made, but then
when you look at them close upyou can see that they're, you
know they're, they're actuallynot perfect.
There's a very clearly the handof the artist in their making
and they have beautiful, smoothsurfaces.
(33:40):
The other, let's see what arethe other distinguishing
characteristics of thesepaintings.
He was very obsessive about it,so I guess I feel I should be
very clear and accurate.
Accurate about what, whatproperties they consist of.
Each painting, or more or lesseach painting, actually lists
(34:03):
the materials on the back.
So there are descriptions onthe back of every panel with the
names of the colors that heuses.
So this is a very sort ofinstructive, historic document,
also for scholars.
And so that's what they are.
But what were they intending tobe?
(34:26):
What did they mean?
Well, for Albus, he felt verystrongly that color was the sort
of defining thing in ourexperience of art, that art was
um really defined by, by color,and and for him every color has
the power to change every othercolor.
(34:46):
So it was really a sort of asearch to explore the limitless
permutations of how color reactsand activates other colors, and
how colors can change dependingon which colors you put next to
them.
You have warmth, you havecoldness, you have different
(35:07):
emotional or spiritualevocations.
He even equated color withdifferent kinds of moralities.
Um, so for him, color was verymuch a living, breathing thing.
Um, and the thing about thearrangement, you know, the, the,
the, the squares, I mean thesquares, to Albers, were sort of
(35:33):
there's a sort of paradox aboutthem.
They were essential, but they,to him, they were also somehow
unimportant, because the squareswas not, was not a design unto
itself, but but really a vehicleto enable to see the color and
to see the colors in this wayadjacent to each other.
(35:56):
So the format really enabled himto continue doing this
limitlessly and forever, withoutever repeating himself.
So the concentric squares werereally the ultimate vessel to
explore his key objective, andhe described it thus thus when I
achieved that, I made you docreative seeing of colors, and
(36:19):
this is my real aim, not thepaintings.
So this repetition, this is,this is really related to his
key idea that there is no end tocolor.
Um, the device, thecompositional device, he
actually described as a prisonum in which he put the colors.
(36:39):
So really the colors havenowhere to go other than um
react with each other, come sortof, sometimes oscillate a
little bit.
His work was very influentialin terms of the op art movement
of the 1960s and sometimes thecolors show that they maybe
(37:00):
either sort of recede or theycome forwards, depending on
these relational qualitiesbetween the colors.
Jeppe Curth (37:13):
Okay, nick.
So why should a collectorconsider adding Albert's work to
their collection?
I mean, of course it makessense if one is interested in
acquiring an important piece ofmodernist art, but these are
hardly a secret, and the factthat Albert's foundation has
been represented by DavidSchwerner for almost a decade
(37:35):
suggests that they are probablyquite expensive.
Is there value here for acollector looking to buy
something important that stillhas potential to grow?
Nichlas Robinson (37:46):
Well, I think so, and that's, of course, why
we've arrived at this point, andmaybe it seems like a long
preamble to discuss his market,but I think that the purpose of
describing his working life theway I have done is to really try
at least to demonstrate that heis kind of at the epicenter of
(38:09):
so many of the key turningpoints in the 20th century how
modernism developed, how ideasabout painting became
increasingly um, reductivist,paired back Um.
You know, of course, we knowthe term minimalism very well,
but you know this, this camefrom um the ideas that people
(38:33):
like Albers had, and one of thekey people, stripping away,
stripping away, stripping awayto get to the most elemental
components of painting in orderfor painting to somehow not only
justify itself but fulfill itstrue purpose, true purpose.
(38:54):
So, anyway, when we think aboutAlbers in the market, the key
thing about his, his, his marketis that there are, there are
lots of these um homage to thesquare paintings he, as I said,
he made.
He made more than a thousand Um, so there are always
opportunities to acquire them.
But the good thing about anyevolving market is that, of
course, they, they ultimatelythey do get scarcer over time as
more and more disappear intocollections, where they tend to
(39:16):
to become very, very cherished.
And because there's such amilestone of 20th century art,
their importance is likely to beincreasingly understood rather
than become less respected.
So my feeling about this body ofwork is that history will be
more and more kind to it, whichwill tend to, of course, well,
(39:38):
that's value in one sense, butthen that tends to sort of
parlay into value, uh, marketvalue in another sense, um.
So if we, if we look into the,the some of the key um sort of
data points of, of his points,of his market, and actually what
I should say, before I get intothat, is that there are many
(40:00):
different uh sizes of homage tothe square paintings.
The smallest is 16 by 16 inchesum, which is uh more or less 40
or 41 square centimeters, andthen the largest is 48 inches
square, which is 1.22 meterssquare, and there's lots of
(40:22):
different incremental sizes inbetween.
So you know, it's obviouslypossible to maybe as we can look
into in a moment maybe buy asmaller one representing very
good value.
So anyway, the overview of hismarket is not only that, this is
a seminal art, historical thing.
(40:46):
There are numerous opportunitiesto buy, often at auction.
54 examples of homage to thesquare paintings have been sold
at auction since 2022.
Um, the lowest price for whichwas $230,000 for an 18 by 18
inch.
That's a 46 square centimeterpainting.
(41:08):
Um there's a global reach um theU S, germany, uk and
Switzerland are the leading uhvenues or nations for
transaction volume and of course, that gives us a really good
snapshot of where the key powerin the art market lies.
(41:30):
These are the four biggest ormost major centers um but
distributed um worldwide.
Um of course, he hasunimpeachable institutional
validation Um he's representedin every major museum collection
anywhere ever.
Um and there's also a verystrong foundation, the Joseph
(41:53):
and Annie Albers foundation inConnecticut.
Um are very powerful custodiansof the work and, in tandem with
the, the uh sort of partnershipwith David's Werner since 2016,
they have a very uh controlleduh development of of the market.
(42:13):
I guess another useful overviewor way to sort of summarize um
uh his his appeal Um.
He has an 83, 3% sell throughrate at auction Um and probably
even some of the failures aredown to a condition.
So almost always sell and inrecent years, over 70% of the
(42:39):
auction results have exceededthe high estimate.
So this is a very highperforming thing that continues
to go from strength to strength.
Jeppe Curth (42:50):
Good Thanks, Nick.
Do you know how many Elvisworks sales at auction every
year?
Nichlas Robinson (42:56):
um, well, I I don't know you're probably going
to give me a number that maybeis not reflective of only the
homage of the square paintings.
No, because there are alsoprints.
Yes, there are wood blocks,there are other types of
paintings and things.
I mean there is a large I meanhe's a he was an old man when he
died and working consistentlysince 1920.
(43:17):
So it was more than half acentury of production.
Jeppe Curth (43:20):
But it's over 200 works.
Yeah, okay, which also is quitea liquid market in terms of
that.
Yeah, look into it.
So what kind of Elvis workswould you suggest present the
best opportunity for collectors?
Nichlas Robinson (43:35):
Well, I've alluded to the fact that there
are different sizes 16 by 16, 18by 18, 24 inch, 28 inch square,
30 by 30, 32, 40 by 40, 48 inch.
Now, if we look at the biggersizes, um, now, if we look at
the bigger sizes, we can seethat the prices are typically
(43:58):
quite high.
Anything from sort of 76centimeters square above tends
to achieve a pretty high price.
Um, so the record price, justas a instructive note, the
record price for a 30 by 30 inchpainting is $2 million.
The record price for a 32 by 32inch painting is which is the
overall record price at auction,incidentally, $3 million, 40 by
(44:22):
40, 2.95, and there was a 48inch square painting sold quite
some time ago for 2.2 million.
I'm sure it would fetchenormously more than that today.
So these are all between twoand $3 million, 30 by 30 inches
and above.
But if we look at the recordprice for a 16 by 16 or an 18 by
(44:46):
18, the record price of thesetwo respectively is 850K and
762K is 850K and 762K.
So there's an enormousdiscrepancy between the prices
that the smaller paintingsachieve and the larger paintings
achieve.
And yet the actual sort ofpresence of these paintings is
not so different and the kind ofexperience that they provide is
(45:13):
not so different.
So my suggestion is thatthere's a lot of value in the
smaller size paintings and if webreak that down even further,
we can say that four squares aregenerally more desirable than
three.
Some of the paintings, as Imentioned, have three nested
squares, some four.
So four, of course, course,means one extra color and all of
(45:35):
the sort of extra experientialqualities that you get from four
colors reacting alongside eachother than three.
Some of them have slightvariations on the simplicity of
the format, where there's someuh, sort of canted corners or
some extra lines, where there'sa sort of a slight change in the
(45:59):
formula, if you will.
Um, uh, the simplest format isthe best, where none of these
sort of extra modifications havebeen have been implemented.
Um, and then I would saytonality, and by that I mean
works that uh, uh, executed inmore or less the same color
(46:21):
family, tend to have a certainsort of uh.
The record painting wasactually for a, um, a painting
that that that consisted of verywarm reds, so it had an
incredible, um, sort ofpulsating beauty to it.
(46:45):
Um, similarly very, you know,golden yellows or, um, yeah,
very, very rich blues.
I mean all of these kinds ofones would be very, very highly
prized.
Some of the works have verystrange dissonant color
combinations and I think there'sactually an interesting
(47:05):
opportunity in these works.
These are more sort of radicalessays in how colors react.
For example, there's some thathave sort of blues and greens
with a sort of strange brown orbrowny yellow.
These are his experimentswhereby, you know, the color
(47:29):
itself might be yellow, but thepresence of the yellow makes the
colors alongside it look eitherblue or green, and so these are
also have sometimes a tonalitythat looks very much of the
period.
The sort of colors youassociate with, I don't know.
(47:52):
I'm going to be very crass hereand say you know, bathroom
tiles from the sixties or theseventies.
So so maybe they have a sort of, uh, slightly dated or vintage
quality because the palette isredolent of a certain period.
Now, I think these are greatbecause you know they actually
feel very much like they are oftheir time.
(48:13):
Um, maybe the more expensiveones have a certain universal
quality, but maybe these have acertain sort of like period
document quality, um, and Ithink there's an opportunity in
those.
Anyway, if we cut to the, youknow we've given a sort of
overview of the record prices,but for all the formats, I'm
(48:34):
going to go from the 16 by 16,the lowest price in the last
three years 250,.
18 by 18,.
Lowest price last three years230,.
30 by 30, lowest 411,.
32 by 32, 220.
Now don't forget that the 30 by32, 32 by 32 format, the record
price is $3 million, yet thelowest price in the last three
(48:56):
years is 220K.
Now, these are all.
These are all things that comeup at auction and maybe you know
there's a bad economy or maybethere's just, you know, a simple
a fact as just sort of fallingthrough the gaps in terms of
public consciousness.
Maybe it's a small provincialauction house somewhere.
(49:17):
There are opportunities, butthere are also pitfalls and the
things to look out for.
Of course, you know the typicalthings that I've mentioned in
terms of the qualitative aspects, artistically, but then when
you have the, the same tonalfamily, it's important that
(49:38):
there's a clear distinctionbetween the squares so you see a
clear reaction in the differentblocks of color.
A good provenance is nice.
Of course, the, the, thecomprehensive annotations on the
back are also desirable, but akey thing is condition.
Now, some of them have aproblematic condition.
(49:59):
Albers would paint thesepaintings and then sometimes he
would varnish them because hewould want to see the color
before and after varnishing.
That would change the way thelight hit the surface.
It would change the tonality ofthe color that was underneath
the varnish.
And this was not a very wisearchival choice.
(50:21):
This was a choice that he madeto see them sort of in the
moment, without thinking aboutthe sort of longevity of them as
objects.
So then he would sometimes evenpaint over the top of the
varnish which you get.
Some of them you have reallybad cracking and peeling and
it's very important to ensurethat that that there hasn't been
(50:45):
a lot of restoration or that itis in, you know, a sound
condition that will stay sound.
Jeppe Curth (50:52):
Okay, Nick.
So just to be clear, why do webelieve it's still
underappreciated by the marketrelative to its high price and
cultural importance?
Nichlas Robinson (51:01):
Well, because there are enough of them that
you can still snaffle them upfor inexpensive prices.
I've just given you an overviewof the low prices for various
size formats in the last threeyears 250, 230, 220, but various
size formats in the last threeyears 250, 230, 220, you know,
(51:21):
almost irrespective of size, youcan find these paintings and
you know these are paintingsthat their sort of brethren
fetch $3 million.
It's not such a stretch to feellike, as his market continues to
sort of grow and it's a marketthat, incidentally, has just
grown steadily over time, overeasily 20 years where, or more
where, it's been firmly acceptedas a, as part of this sort of
(51:43):
pantheon of great art making ofthe 20th century.
So you know they're not evergoing to be less than that.
And as everything else becomesmore expensive, maybe these
won't radically appreciate.
But if you wish to have a verysort of solid blue chip holding,
you know you could reasonablyexpect that if you get one of
these, if you have a $200,000painting, you'll end up with a
(52:04):
$400,000 painting.
If you get a $400,000 painting,the least you can reasonably
expect is that you'll have a$600,000 painting.
Maybe it will take a few years,but it's a very safe, solid,
risk-averse thing to put moneyinto and a very iconic thing to
enjoy as you do so.
Jeppe Curth (52:23):
Yes, and we have also been buying, offering,
advising clients with privateworks from Joseph Elvis that
have never been on auctions.
Nichlas Robinson (52:32):
Yes, that's true, I mean they can be found,
you know, and the thing too Iguess is key is that the auction
market and the private marketalso represents an opportunity
relative to the works thatZwirner has, either from the
foundation or works that hesources.
I mean he will sell a 76 squarecentimetre painting, you know,
(52:55):
for more than a million dollars.
I'm 1.2, 1.4 million dollars, Imean, are some recent prices
that I've seen with works by him, and I've seen similar works
that have been possible toacquire on the private market
for 8, 9, 950, less than amillion.
Jeppe Curth (53:14):
So, you know's, it's doable so, nigga, this has
been a quite a long episode, butI also think we made a deep
dive into his life, which wasquite important to understand
how important culture he uhfigure, he is.
Um, any final thoughts?
(53:35):
Anything you uh think?
Nichlas Robinson (53:39):
is um worth mentioning.
Yeah, I mean you know there's.
There's a lot of informationabout Albus.
Um, they have a very nice the.
The found the Albus foundationhas a really nice website which
gives so much information on the, which gives so much
information on the um sort ofadds vitality to, to, to the
information, if you like, whereyou can see a lot of timelines
(54:00):
and archival information in, in,in in the life of the Albers
it's.
It's really really beautiful Um.
But the conclusion generally isis, is that?
Um?
Well, I guess the marketnarrative is that it's a.
It's a very stable market.
It's not a speculative market.
It's highly suited to a sort ofstrategic holding.
(54:21):
So it's ideal for verycommitted long-term collectors,
people that want to see theirart as a very solid repository
of cash, of liquidity.
Solid repository of cash, ofliquidity, um, obviously
something that you can put moneyinto.
(54:41):
That has um incredible culturaldepth, um and resonance for the
entire sort of history of 20thcentury art production.
Um, and very strong financialfundamentals underpinning um the
kind of commitment to theseworks.
So it's very relevant for thosewho want to allocate some
capital towards um, this sort oflegacy modernism that will
(55:05):
never lose its high statuswithin the art world.
Jeppe Curth (55:09):
Um, yeah, so if anybody want to acquire, they
can look at auction.
They can of course write DavidSchwerner, they can call us as
well yes, yeah, there's lots ofthank you, thank you, yeah, and
I guess that's all for us thistime yeah, I think we've, we've
done as much as we can good bye,bye, bye that was it for this
(55:34):
episode of the Collector's Edge.
If you are looking for expertinsights, want to make informed
decisions and would like advicefrom independent advisors, send
us an email or maybe just callus.
You can find all the info onour website nordegardpartnerscom
.
Thank you for listening and wehope to have you back for
(55:56):
another episode.
Bye.
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