May 31, 2024 • 36 mins
Can the quiet beauty of Italian medieval architecture and lush Piedmont landscapes captivate modern art enthusiasts? In this episode, we delve into the intriguing work of Salvo, an influential Italian artist most renowned for the sumptuous colours and serene poise of his landscape paintings. We discuss his career and current market position and try to unpick the reasons for his growing reputation, almost a decade after his passing.
Born Salvatore Mangione in 1947 in Sicily, Salvo’s journey from conceptual text-based art of the late 1960s Arte Povera movement to a distinctive and instantly recognisable painting style marked by historical references and vivid imagery has captured the attention of collectors and art enthusiasts alike. Join me, your host Jeppe Curth and our resident art expert Nicholas Robinson, as we explore Salvo's evolution as an artist, his major themes and his developing legacy in the art world. We’ll discuss his unique blend of Renaissance mythology and contemporary narratives, his growing impact on the art market, and why his works are increasingly highly sought after. Tune in to uncover the essence of Salvo’s enchanting artistry and gain valuable insights into what makes his works a worthy addition to any art collection.
Episode Image: Salvo, Valle, 2008, Oil on board, 50 x 35 cm (DETAIL)©️ Salvo / Archivio Salvo
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jeppe Curth (00:00):
Hi and welcome to the Collector's Edge from Nordic
Art Partners.
In this episode we will discussthe work and career of Salvo,
an Italian artist who continuesto grow in popularity and
reputation.
With me today, as usual, is ourart expert, Nicolas Robinson,
and me your host, Jeppe Kort.
It is with Alex Rotter at 400million Selling here at
(00:23):
Christie's $400 million is thebid and the piece is sold.
Nicholas Robinson (00:29):
We've all heard about it.
Sometimes it's front-page news.
Important works of art arebeing sold for incredible sums
of money, but can you getinvolved and become a part of
the exclusive club yourself, andhow do you get started while
avoiding buying the wrong things?
That's exactly what thispodcast is about.
This is the Collector's Edgefrom Nordic Art Partners, a
(00:53):
podcast for those of youinterested in the mechanics of
the art industry, want adviceabout putting money into art, or
simply want to buy somethingfor your walls, to beautify your
surroundings.
Whatever your objectives, it ispossible to put money into art
wisely, to be considered,thoughtful and well informed in
(01:14):
your choices and actions.
Welcome to the art ofcollecting with an eye for
curated beauty and practicalvalue, and practical value, Hi
Nick.
Hi, jeppe, good day.
I just want to congratulate you.
That was an impeccableintroduction that you managed to
(01:34):
do in a single take, thank you.
Jeppe Curth (01:38):
We're doing better and better in this podcasting.
Nicholas Robinson (01:39):
I guess we are.
How are you doing Good?
Very well, thank you you.
Jeppe Curth (01:43):
Yeah, I'm well.
I'm looking forward to thisepisode where we're going to
talk about Salvo.
Nicholas Robinson (01:49):
Yes, we'll talk about Salvo, one of our
favorites.
Jeppe Curth (01:51):
Yes, indeed, and maybe we should start by you
describing who is Salvo.
Nicholas Robinson (01:58):
Of course, salvo was an Italian artist,
born Salvatore Mangione in 1947.
And the key period in his lifebegan in the late 1960s 1968,
when he moved to Turin andbecame associated with artists
(02:20):
of the Arte Povera movement,especially Alighiero Boetti,
mario Mertz and Giuseppe Penone.
All of these artists were inthe orbit of the Genenzo Sperone
Gallery and he became veryclose with them.
He shared a studio with Boettiuntil 1971, and his works of
(02:47):
this themes of history, identityand a lot of his works from
(03:14):
this period show a sort ofcollaborative cross-pollination
with Boetti's works of thisperiod, boetti's works of this
period.
In 1969, he became also involvedwith American conceptual
artists such as Joseph Kassuth,robert Barry, Sol LeWitt, and
(03:40):
this early period alsosolidified some important
relationships with some keypeople in the art world and the
art market of this time.
Some key people in the artworld and the art market of this
time.
Obviously, we've alreadymentioned Genenzo Sperone, but
he came into contact with thehighly influential German dealer
Paul Mainz in Cologne, and healso met with and exhibited with
Yvon Lambert in Paris and JohnWeber in New York, all of whom
were highly important figures inthe championing of post-minimal
(04:05):
conceptual art.
So that's the basic backgroundof who he is.
Jeppe Curth (04:13):
Thank you, Nick.
Well, we also talk about Salvotoday because we love his work.
Could you describe?
Nicholas Robinson (04:20):
his works for us Absolutely.
Describe his works for usAbsolutely.
Salvo's painterly evolution wasa sort of a slow burn
throughout the course of the1970s.
He began painting in 1973, atwhich point he decided to
abandon, for the most part, theconceptual, word-based,
(04:44):
text-based works, and he wouldnever abandon this choice or go
back from this decision.
And then, around 1976, hestarted painting the very first
works that we recognize as thesort of proto-Salvo works that
we've come to know today, as thesort of proto salvo works, um,
(05:07):
that we've come to know today,and and the works that in fact
form the bedrock of his, of his,of his current reputation and
his, his place within the market, uh, if you like.
But in 1976, he startedpainting these mythological
scenes, engaging in a dialoguewith um, with, with the old
masters, particularly of theearly Renaissance.
(05:27):
His works would have anaffinity with artists like Piero
della Francesca, paolo Uccello.
They were history paintingsshowing figures on horses amidst
ruins, columns and various, uh,sort of capricci of classical
(05:50):
antiquity, so fictitious scenesof ruins, um, and things like
this, um.
And then in 1979, we see thevery first of what would become
his mature style throughout the80s, and this saw the
development of his key aesthetic, that being trees and
(06:11):
vegetation, very much inspiredby the works of Giotto, one of
the key artists at the beginningof the Italian Renaissance.
So Salvo had a very clearconception of the artist, the
role of the artist and how theartist, as this sort of genius,
(06:31):
creative force, had a veryspecific role within culture,
whereby artistic practice wasprimarily to mediate between
antiquity and modernity.
So Salvo would see himself andother artists as a conduit to
bring many of these classicalideals into the present and a
(06:55):
way for the artist to berelevant.
And then, throughout the 1980sand then throughout the 1980s,
he painted various iterations ofthese landscape scenes.
The people at the end of the70s were stripped away and he
(07:16):
painted churches, monasteries,classical buildings, various
ancient Italian structures thatwere highly recognizable as the
archetypes of Italian medievalarchitecture Churches,
ecclesiastical buildings and allthe features associated with
them Arcaded cloisters, towers,etc.
(07:39):
And then, throughout the 80s,he became very sort of distilled
into a few different types oflandscape painting.
He lived in Turin, so he paintedlots of landscapes in the
hillsides of Piedmont.
These are typically known asthe valley works, consisting of
little hamlets, clusters offarmhouses, sylvan hillsides,
(08:02):
mountains, very idealized, verydensely saturated in color, rich
and lush, often with verybeautiful cotton, candy trees
and clouds, and the main ideabehind this was to portray the
(08:23):
complexities of light and thepassage of time.
The paintings are very serene,they're very still and they, you
know, they crystallize real andremembered passages of
landscape into this profoundmeditation on the passing of
time.
Indeed, many of the works werenamed after times of day, months
(08:45):
or seasons, or some combinationof these.
So he painted these valleys,painted them at night, known as
the noturnos.
He painted seascapes, many in atown in Calabria called San
Nicola, arkela, where he wouldvisit.
He painted scenes from the city.
(09:06):
He painted classical ruins andhe also painted a group of
paintings called the Ottomaniapaintings.
In the mid to late 80s, hetraveled to Bosnia-Herzegovina
and he painted a group ofpaintings showing the archetypes
of Islamic architecture mosques, minarets, etc.
(09:29):
Etc.
So this is, you know, a broadsummary of what we've come to
look for when we look at hiswork.
Jeppe Curth (09:37):
Thanks, Nick.
Are there any particular worksby Selva you believe are
essential for understanding hisimpact on art generally?
Nicholas Robinson (09:45):
works by Selva you believe are essential
for understanding his impact onart generally.
Well, I think that his maturestyle, you know there's a reason
why it's become very, verypopular.
They're extremely beautiful,they're very charming, they're
very idyllic and I think thatwhen you see the best
combination of these elements,you see, you know, beautiful
(10:09):
light, you see beautiful richgreens in the landscape, you see
the long shadows from the trees.
You know, you feel, you feelthat you're in a timeless
landscape, a landscape that hasthat has not changed, that is
enduring and that has certainsort of universal qualities.
(10:32):
So these are the kinds ofthings, and you know, the works
variously have mountains, churchspires, the trees, the clouds
that I mentioned.
We see beautiful sunrises,sunsets, we see the moon high in
the sky with clouds passing infront.
And you know, salvo is a masterat depicting light, the effect
(10:55):
of light at different times ofthe day, different seasons.
So any painting that reallyembodies these qualities is, you
know, a very desirable thing.
Jeppe Curth (11:06):
And there's also that same desire that collectors
have for the same type of works.
Nicholas Robinson (11:11):
Yes, absolutely, I mean, you know,
the very best of these are theones that are becoming most
sought after.
You know, for a long time Salvosort of lapsed into somewhat
obscure reputation,reputationally speaking, even
though he had a long andconsistent and well regarded
(11:31):
career.
But the works, you know, theworks are very pretty and people
become very suspicious ofthings that are overtly
beautiful, of things that areovertly beautiful.
Somehow that can be a bywordsometimes for lacking substance.
But of course it was largelyunknown to most passing
(11:54):
observers that Salvo had thisvery sort of rigorous conceptual
grounding in the Italianavant-garde of the late 60s and
early 1970s and that hisdetermination to continue
portraying these scenes, thesepassages of light and time
within the landscape, you know,people would very easily maybe
(12:20):
miss the conceptual underpinningfor these works.
In any event, his work isbecoming recognized again and
there's been some.
There's an artist, nicholasParty, who's become a very big
star within the art world, whosemost successful paintings sell
(12:40):
for millions of dollars and hisworks bear a superficial
similarity to Salvo.
He's, uh, he's gone on record assaying that he's been very
inspired by um Salvo, veryindebted to his, his work and
his aesthetic, and and therehave been some exhibitions where
the where works by the twoartists have been juxtaposed
(13:02):
alongside each other in quite aninteresting way.
So the contemporary artistslike Partey and like some other
artists who paint in these verysort of rich, stylized landscape
(13:23):
style works, you know peoplesee the popularity of these
artists, they see the largeprices that these artists' works
are achieving in galleryexhibitions, in auctions, and
it's you know, it's a very easystep to start to look at the
antecedents for some of theseartists' works and to see an
artist like Salvo.
You know these artists' workswould not be possible without
(13:47):
Salvo's work and the examplethat he set.
So you know it becomes very,very much a part of an ongoing
dialogue to try and experience arevival of interest.
People begin to link the workof modern and contemporary
(14:11):
artists to their work.
They trace the contemporaryartists back to the artists who
have inspired them.
Jeppe Curth (14:34):
Yes, I do think we also can agree that he had some.
He have had some really goodyears last couple of years where
he also, I believe, had had Ithink it was last year a new
auction record of more than 1.1million dollars for for two
meter by three 30 meter worker,I guess it was um.
(14:57):
Is this you know, collectorstoday?
Going back in history andconnect the dots in terms of
some of the new artists,contemporary artists, and
connecting with Salvo?
Nicholas Robinson (15:10):
Yes and no.
I mean obviously it's.
It's not much of a stretch tosee a large painting by Nicholas
Party achieve, let's say, fourmillion dollars, for example,
and then see that a Salvopainting, you know, which, you
know, not so long ago was wortha hundred thousand dollars.
(15:33):
And you know things like thatfrom a very rational perspective
they don't make much sense.
So people are always interestedin looking for new things
(15:55):
because there's already acompelling and interesting
narrative and story that hasbrought this artist kind of full
circle back into contemporaryrelevance.
So it's like a new market forsomething that's somehow still
(16:16):
established in some way and thatmakes a lot of sense.
Still established in some wayand that makes a lot of sense.
You know, um Salvo's work is inis in many museums in Germany,
in Italy, in the United States.
His work is in um is in MoMA inthe Walker Art Center, um he he
participated in Documenta andseveral editions of the Venice
Biennale.
(16:36):
I mean, he's a, he's animportant artist, um, and yet
his, the way his work was valuedby the market, was not um, was
did not have that sort ofequivalency with, with his
status Um.
So obviously people see thisand they start to think that you
know something interesting canbe done to to breathe life in
(17:00):
into this market Um but a fewyears ago his work was exhibited
um by Barbara Gladstone in NewYork, and obviously this is a
fantastic gallery um who has along and illustrious track
record with painters um as wellas artists working in other
media Um but she she's done someextremely good work with with
(17:25):
Salvo Um.
It's my understanding that thatshe collaborates closely with
the Archivio Salvo, which is theartist's archive and estate
that manages all of his umauthentication, all of the um I
guess uh exhibition planning inorder to protect his, his legacy
and uh and reputation Um so so,so Gladstone has been key.
(17:51):
She's exhibited more recentlyum a show of his of his uh ruins
, his classical ruins, a show ofhis of his uh ruins, his
classical ruins, uh paintings inum her Brussels gallery Um.
There's a gallery in Milan thatworked with Salvo at the end of
his life.
He died in 2015.
(18:17):
Um Masolini um they're in inMilan and they've done a lot
with bringing his work to artfairs and bringing his work much
more into a currentconsciousness Um.
There's a really nice galleryin Milan, depart um uh run by uh
Antonio Adamiano.
He's a real scholar of Salvo'swork and he's very devotedly um
(18:38):
been pushing and pushing andpushing the work Um.
Massimiliano Bugno, in Venice,who worked with Salvo for many,
many years during his life um isvery, has a very sophisticated
and nuanced knowledge of theartists, various bodies of work
um and always has fantastic,fantastic works and exhibitions
(19:01):
Um.
So you know, there's there's agrowing awareness of the work
within the market and then oncethat awareness develops and you
start seeing the works croppingup at auction um, and then it
gathers a momentum of its own Um, you know, all of a sudden,
salvo is an art star all overagain posthumously.
(19:23):
So, yes, you know, we see allof these factors coalescing to
create a particular moment.
Unfortunately, there have beentoo many paintings coming up for
auction because there's been asort of a meteoric price rise
and Salvo was, you know, he hemade quite a lot of paintings um
, and he's working consistentlyfor, you know, 30 odd years Um.
(19:49):
So so you know, there are,there are paintings that are
really kind of coming out of thewoodwork, selling at auctions
in London, new York, inprovincial auction houses up and
down Italy, in Hong Kong, Imean.
There's a lot of them, um, andyou know the prices are a little
bit erratic.
Sometimes these works, you know, don't really garner attention
(20:13):
just because the auction is asmall auction.
Um, the works are quite erraticqualitatively.
So you know, there's there'salways reasons why some things
make big prices, some thingsmakes more prices and sometimes
there's a sequence of mediocreprices just because there's too
much material, um, that themarket is expected to absorb
(20:37):
within any given period of time.
So you know, we're seeing whatwe're seeing is we're seeing a
market in the process of sortingitself out.
But, that being said, theprices now are at least double,
maybe three times, what theywere this time two years ago.
(20:59):
So there've been somesignificant changes.
And, like I said, this largepainting, or the one that you
referenced, that sold for amillion plus, you know there
wasn't.
That would have been $125,000not so long ago.
So there've been somesignificant changes in the price
and now they're routinelyfetching pretty handsome sums.
Jeppe Curth (21:21):
Okay, so when considering Salvo's work for
acquisition, what aspect do youbelieve are the most compelling
from an art advisor perspective?
Nicholas Robinson (21:31):
Well, you know, I think the first thing to
say, which is relevant for anyartist whose work you would
consider, is is get to know theworks and find the best example
that you can for the budget thatyou have.
I mean, I would always say youknow, stretch and buy something
better.
Um, I think also that a goodrule of thumb would be to buy
(21:57):
something that is tiny bitbigger, and when I say that I
mean anything 60 to 70centimeters in one of the
dimensions.
Anything of that scale andlarger would be a good idea.
Just because there are, theystart to get a little bit fewer,
get a little bit fewer Um.
(22:21):
You know the very largepaintings.
There's not many of those Um.
And then there's a sort of acategory which is maybe one and
a half meters by two meters insize, and they're they're
relatively scarce and they'rethey're can be quite expensive.
Now, seven $800,000 euros Um,but then.
But then after that you've gotsome paintings that are 1 meter
20, 1 meter 50, you knowpaintings of this scale which
(22:42):
are still somewhat friendly fora domestic setting but still
substantial.
So I think that's a good idea.
And then, of course, you know,the composition should reflect
maybe the archetypes of his workthat I've described earlier
(23:02):
reflect, maybe, the archetypesof his work that I've described
earlier.
Um, but it's possible to buygood examples of his work for 50
, 60, $70,000.
I mean, there's plenty of workscoming up at auction beautiful,
uh, sunset, drenched, seascapes, um, really nice works, um, and
I I think that they're veryreasonably priced for the
(23:23):
quality and the importance thatthey have.
Even still, so, it depends onyour budget, because obviously,
you know, accessibility is oneof those things that is
dependent on how much money youhave to spend.
Jeppe Curth (23:39):
Well it, I guess it often comes down to money.
But if we reflect a bit onSalvo's career, what do you see
as his lasting legacy in the artworld, and how does this
influence your advice to clients?
Nicholas Robinson (23:56):
Well, I think that one of the things about
Salvo is that he's, you knowhe's.
He's a bit of an outlier.
He started to become interestedin painting before there was
this great revival in paintingat the end of the 1970s and
throughout the 1980s.
So he doesn't really fit intoany particular box that
(24:17):
prescribes an artist or artistsin terms of adherence, adherence
to a movement or or such Um, so.
So, really, it's, it's, youknow, he's a, he's a distinctive
character who very singularlystuck to his ideals, um, and to
the kinds of things that hewanted to do.
(24:39):
I mean, there's enormousrepetition in the scenes that he
painted, you know, scenes ofSantana, a small village in the
foothills of the Alps, closeoutside, somewhat outside Turin,
and close to the border withFrance.
I mean he painted the same barn, the same tree, the same church
(25:00):
spire, with a plowed fields andthe mountains beyond.
He painted this over and overagain in the summertime, in the
wintertime snow on the ground,moon in the sky.
You know the, the, the, the,the lush promise of spring, the
sort of faded grandeur of summeras it moves into early autumn.
I mean, all of these, all ofthese repetitions, are exercises
(25:25):
in conveying these, these,these, these key, key things
that Salvo was seeking tocommunicate.
So I think, you know, thesepaintings are very timeless
paintings.
I mean to to look at a sort of amaybe a similar yet very
different artist.
To look at the Italian artistMirandi, for instance.
(25:45):
You know he painted these verydry, still life paintings, very
restful, very specific, somewhatlimited palette of colors, and
he did them over and over again.
These vessels, this sense ofstillness, and you know, his
(26:06):
paintings are just instantlyrecognizable for this.
You know, the Impressionistpainter, henri Fantin Latour,
who transitioned from the sortof academic school of the third
quarter of the nuance of oflight, the way, the way it
(26:40):
catches on the surface of this,of these, these petals of this,
of this foliage, um, you know,salvo is, is, is, is like this.
He just encapsulates a certainum set of, uh, painterly
expectations in terms of whatyou want to see, what you expect
to see, and he does it over andover, and some examples of his
(27:02):
work are better than others.
Jeppe Curth (27:09):
No-transcript so nick.
Without diving too deeply intospecifics, could you share how
selfless work might fit into awell-created collection with
(27:31):
from both the aesthetic andvalue?
Nicholas Robinson (27:34):
standpoint.
Well, I mean, any collection isis.
There's no such thing as astandardized collection.
You know, people buy things forfor various reasons.
I mean, we buy his work, likemany artists, because we, we
admire it, we recognize acertain quality and we recognize
a certain opportunity, becausewe believe that his work is
(27:58):
underestimated and undervaluedvis-a-vis so many other things
that are out there, and webelieve in the potential and the
likelihood of his work to wellcontinue to be sort of elevated
into a status and a marketrecognition that is better than
(28:18):
is currently the case.
Um, and so I, you know many ofthe artists that we look to.
You could, you could describethem, uh, in that, in that kind
of way, in those sorts of terms.
Um, you know, we, we like to bestudents of history, we like to
do a deep dive, we like to toto research, we like to travel
(28:40):
and get to know the context.
Um, that informed these artistsand the various protagonists
that have been involved in, in,in bringing the artists back to
the fore.
Um, so, you know, does it fitin with, I mean, you know,
Salvo's work is, it could fit inwith all kinds of contemporary,
contemporary painting.
There's a aestheticallychallenging um, in in the way
(29:17):
that some things are that mightmight be harsh or or or might be
difficult to understandvisually.
Um, so you know it's.
It comes down to what are yourobjectives when you buy
something.
Do you want to buy somethingbecause you love it?
You want to love it, you wantto make good financial sense in
terms of putting money into it,rather than maybe wasting money
(29:41):
on something that might beoverpriced or highly speculative
.
I mean, these are the kinds ofobjectives that we, that we go
for, rather than any particular,you know, thematic, oratic or
whatever kind of objectives thatother people may have with
their acquisitions or theircollecting.
Jeppe Curth (30:02):
Yeah, as we normally say that there's enough
things out there to buy, so itis possible and we should
combine the two factors that welove it and it's a good thing to
put money into.
Maybe can you elaborate on thevalue position we have on Salvo
that you just mentioned.
Nicholas Robinson (30:21):
Well, I mean, you know, I think that the
paintings have been veryinexpensive for a long time.
I mean, the first Salvopaintings that we were buying
were, you know, 12 and 15,000euros, and equivalent paintings
are now 60 and 70,000 euros.
So of course it's.
It's changed a lot in a in arelatively short space of time.
(30:43):
But, um, you know, I don't, forme, I don't look at that price,
uh, only in relation to Salvo.
I look at that price inrelation to other other things
that one could buy out there inthe market and I and I, you know
, if it feels reasonable to meprice-wise relative to those
(31:05):
things, then then I feelinclined to continue buying or
advising people that it's asensible or safe or recommended
thing for them to buy too.
There's going to be asignificant exhibition, the
largest survey exhibition ofSalvo's work since he died in
(31:26):
2015.
That's going to take place atthe Pinacoteca Agnelli, which is
a division of the AgnelliFoundation, the industrialist
family in Italy that have a longhistory of collecting and
patronage and culturalleadership in Italy.
(31:49):
So that's going to take placeat the end of this year and run
for about six months.
So that's going to take placeat the end of this year and run
for about six months.
I don't see people running outof interest in these works, and
I just think that they'resufficiently interesting and
beautiful that his work isestablished in a new way, at a
(32:10):
newly elevated status, and Ithink it's going to continue.
I don't think it's done so.
That would be my feeling aboutthe work and that's what would
motivate me to continue toacquire his work.
Jeppe Curth (32:27):
Yeah, I totally agree, Nick.
For someone looking to exploreSalvo's work further, where
might they start and how canthis knowledge we just shared
benefit them in their journey asan art collector?
Nicholas Robinson (32:42):
Well, look and learn.
It's like, with so many things,coming to something from some
position of knowledge andunderstanding is useful.
You know, the works are veryeasy to look at and it's very
easy to understand the variousarchetypes that he painted, be
(33:04):
it the ruins, the mountainvalleys, the, the seascapes, the
, the.
You know they're all of aclearly defined type.
Um, if you wish to to to seemany um, then you know you can
go to the Archivia Salva website.
(33:27):
They've got great biographicalinformation, very detailed of
course, um, and you can see lotsof examples uh there on their
website.
Um, barbara Gladstone's websitehas got some really nice um uh
installation images of some ofthe exhibitions that she has
hosted.
And then, and then, if you, ifyou search for Salvo review um
(33:52):
art forum, um art forum has agreat archive of um exhibition
reviews going back 30 or 40years.
So you can, you can, you canread reviews of Salvo's historic
exhibitions and you can see howthe opinions of his work were
(34:12):
uh at the time of writing.
You can see how those opinionstally with more contemporary
interpretations.
And you know there's yeah, Imean there's a world of
information online, just like somany things, so it's not
difficult to delve into it insome detail.
Jeppe Curth (34:30):
Thank you, Nick.
Really good insights.
Do you think we missed anything?
Anything you want to add?
Nicholas Robinson (34:37):
no, I don't think so.
I mean, I seem to spend a lotof time listening to the sound
of my own voice here what is?
your personal favorite motif.
Well, I think I really like thenocturnal works.
I find there's a sort of aquietude in them that's really
quite beautiful.
(34:58):
It's not probably a typicalchoice, but I think that somehow
, because there's less light inthese paintings, definitively I
think that what he does withsuch an economical use of light
is so fantastic and so evocativethat I just think that they
really showcase his reallyexquisite abilities.
(35:21):
Um, but, but there's so many.
I mean his sunset paintings.
You know I love the way hepaints the trees in autumn with
these lush oranges, uh, autumnalhues, um, his pink blossoms
from the spring.
I mean he's a great, greatpainter and I really encourage,
(35:41):
just for sheer pleasure, just toreally look at them as much as
you can.
Jeppe Curth (35:48):
Thank you, nick.
Last advice If you need anyhelp buying selling art, if you
need any help buying selling art, you're always welcome to
contact us at jeppe atnordicartpartnerscom, and thank
you for this time.
Hi and welcome to the Collector's Edge from Nordic
Art Partners.
In this episode we will discussthe work and career of Salvo,
an Italian artist who continuesto grow in popularity and
reputation.
With me today, as usual, is ourart expert, Nicolas Robinson,
and me your host, Jeppe Kort.
It is with Alex Rotter at 400million Selling here at
(00:23):
Christie's $400 million is thebid and the piece is sold.
Nicholas Robinson (00:29):
We've all heard about it.
Sometimes it's front-page news.
Important works of art arebeing sold for incredible sums
of money, but can you getinvolved and become a part of
the exclusive club yourself, andhow do you get started while
avoiding buying the wrong things?
That's exactly what thispodcast is about.
This is the Collector's Edgefrom Nordic Art Partners, a
(00:53):
podcast for those of youinterested in the mechanics of
the art industry, want adviceabout putting money into art, or
simply want to buy somethingfor your walls, to beautify your
surroundings.
Whatever your objectives, it ispossible to put money into art
wisely, to be considered,thoughtful and well informed in
(01:14):
your choices and actions.
Welcome to the art ofcollecting with an eye for
curated beauty and practicalvalue, and practical value, Hi
Nick.
Hi, jeppe, good day.
I just want to congratulate you.
That was an impeccableintroduction that you managed to
(01:34):
do in a single take, thank you.
Jeppe Curth (01:38):
We're doing better and better in this podcasting.
Nicholas Robinson (01:39):
I guess we are.
How are you doing Good?
Very well, thank you you.
Jeppe Curth (01:43):
Yeah, I'm well.
I'm looking forward to thisepisode where we're going to
talk about Salvo.
Nicholas Robinson (01:49):
Yes, we'll talk about Salvo, one of our
favorites.
Jeppe Curth (01:51):
Yes, indeed, and maybe we should start by you
describing who is Salvo.
Nicholas Robinson (01:58):
Of course, salvo was an Italian artist,
born Salvatore Mangione in 1947.
And the key period in his lifebegan in the late 1960s 1968,
when he moved to Turin andbecame associated with artists
(02:20):
of the Arte Povera movement,especially Alighiero Boetti,
mario Mertz and Giuseppe Penone.
All of these artists were inthe orbit of the Genenzo Sperone
Gallery and he became veryclose with them.
He shared a studio with Boettiuntil 1971, and his works of
(02:47):
this themes of history, identityand a lot of his works from
(03:14):
this period show a sort ofcollaborative cross-pollination
with Boetti's works of thisperiod, boetti's works of this
period.
In 1969, he became also involvedwith American conceptual
artists such as Joseph Kassuth,robert Barry, Sol LeWitt, and
(03:40):
this early period alsosolidified some important
relationships with some keypeople in the art world and the
art market of this time.
Some key people in the artworld and the art market of this
time.
Obviously, we've alreadymentioned Genenzo Sperone, but
he came into contact with thehighly influential German dealer
Paul Mainz in Cologne, and healso met with and exhibited with
Yvon Lambert in Paris and JohnWeber in New York, all of whom
were highly important figures inthe championing of post-minimal
(04:05):
conceptual art.
So that's the basic backgroundof who he is.
Jeppe Curth (04:13):
Thank you, Nick.
Well, we also talk about Salvotoday because we love his work.
Could you describe?
Nicholas Robinson (04:20):
his works for us Absolutely.
Describe his works for usAbsolutely.
Salvo's painterly evolution wasa sort of a slow burn
throughout the course of the1970s.
He began painting in 1973, atwhich point he decided to
abandon, for the most part, theconceptual, word-based,
(04:44):
text-based works, and he wouldnever abandon this choice or go
back from this decision.
And then, around 1976, hestarted painting the very first
works that we recognize as thesort of proto-Salvo works that
we've come to know today, as thesort of proto salvo works, um,
(05:07):
that we've come to know today,and and the works that in fact
form the bedrock of his, of his,of his current reputation and
his, his place within the market, uh, if you like.
But in 1976, he startedpainting these mythological
scenes, engaging in a dialoguewith um, with, with the old
masters, particularly of theearly Renaissance.
(05:27):
His works would have anaffinity with artists like Piero
della Francesca, paolo Uccello.
They were history paintingsshowing figures on horses amidst
ruins, columns and various, uh,sort of capricci of classical
(05:50):
antiquity, so fictitious scenesof ruins, um, and things like
this, um.
And then in 1979, we see thevery first of what would become
his mature style throughout the80s, and this saw the
development of his key aesthetic, that being trees and
(06:11):
vegetation, very much inspiredby the works of Giotto, one of
the key artists at the beginningof the Italian Renaissance.
So Salvo had a very clearconception of the artist, the
role of the artist and how theartist, as this sort of genius,
(06:31):
creative force, had a veryspecific role within culture,
whereby artistic practice wasprimarily to mediate between
antiquity and modernity.
So Salvo would see himself andother artists as a conduit to
bring many of these classicalideals into the present and a
(06:55):
way for the artist to berelevant.
And then, throughout the 1980sand then throughout the 1980s,
he painted various iterations ofthese landscape scenes.
The people at the end of the70s were stripped away and he
(07:16):
painted churches, monasteries,classical buildings, various
ancient Italian structures thatwere highly recognizable as the
archetypes of Italian medievalarchitecture Churches,
ecclesiastical buildings and allthe features associated with
them Arcaded cloisters, towers,etc.
(07:39):
And then, throughout the 80s,he became very sort of distilled
into a few different types oflandscape painting.
He lived in Turin, so he paintedlots of landscapes in the
hillsides of Piedmont.
These are typically known asthe valley works, consisting of
little hamlets, clusters offarmhouses, sylvan hillsides,
(08:02):
mountains, very idealized, verydensely saturated in color, rich
and lush, often with verybeautiful cotton, candy trees
and clouds, and the main ideabehind this was to portray the
(08:23):
complexities of light and thepassage of time.
The paintings are very serene,they're very still and they, you
know, they crystallize real andremembered passages of
landscape into this profoundmeditation on the passing of
time.
Indeed, many of the works werenamed after times of day, months
(08:45):
or seasons, or some combinationof these.
So he painted these valleys,painted them at night, known as
the noturnos.
He painted seascapes, many in atown in Calabria called San
Nicola, arkela, where he wouldvisit.
He painted scenes from the city.
(09:06):
He painted classical ruins andhe also painted a group of
paintings called the Ottomaniapaintings.
In the mid to late 80s, hetraveled to Bosnia-Herzegovina
and he painted a group ofpaintings showing the archetypes
of Islamic architecture mosques, minarets, etc.
(09:29):
Etc.
So this is, you know, a broadsummary of what we've come to
look for when we look at hiswork.
Jeppe Curth (09:37):
Thanks, Nick.
Are there any particular worksby Selva you believe are
essential for understanding hisimpact on art generally?
Nicholas Robinson (09:45):
works by Selva you believe are essential
for understanding his impact onart generally.
Well, I think that his maturestyle, you know there's a reason
why it's become very, verypopular.
They're extremely beautiful,they're very charming, they're
very idyllic and I think thatwhen you see the best
combination of these elements,you see, you know, beautiful
(10:09):
light, you see beautiful richgreens in the landscape, you see
the long shadows from the trees.
You know, you feel, you feelthat you're in a timeless
landscape, a landscape that hasthat has not changed, that is
enduring and that has certainsort of universal qualities.
(10:32):
So these are the kinds ofthings, and you know, the works
variously have mountains, churchspires, the trees, the clouds
that I mentioned.
We see beautiful sunrises,sunsets, we see the moon high in
the sky with clouds passing infront.
And you know, salvo is a masterat depicting light, the effect
(10:55):
of light at different times ofthe day, different seasons.
So any painting that reallyembodies these qualities is, you
know, a very desirable thing.
Jeppe Curth (11:06):
And there's also that same desire that collectors
have for the same type of works.
Nicholas Robinson (11:11):
Yes, absolutely, I mean, you know,
the very best of these are theones that are becoming most
sought after.
You know, for a long time Salvosort of lapsed into somewhat
obscure reputation,reputationally speaking, even
though he had a long andconsistent and well regarded
(11:31):
career.
But the works, you know, theworks are very pretty and people
become very suspicious ofthings that are overtly
beautiful, of things that areovertly beautiful.
Somehow that can be a bywordsometimes for lacking substance.
But of course it was largelyunknown to most passing
(11:54):
observers that Salvo had thisvery sort of rigorous conceptual
grounding in the Italianavant-garde of the late 60s and
early 1970s and that hisdetermination to continue
portraying these scenes, thesepassages of light and time
within the landscape, you know,people would very easily maybe
(12:20):
miss the conceptual underpinningfor these works.
In any event, his work isbecoming recognized again and
there's been some.
There's an artist, nicholasParty, who's become a very big
star within the art world, whosemost successful paintings sell
(12:40):
for millions of dollars and hisworks bear a superficial
similarity to Salvo.
He's, uh, he's gone on record assaying that he's been very
inspired by um Salvo, veryindebted to his, his work and
his aesthetic, and and therehave been some exhibitions where
the where works by the twoartists have been juxtaposed
(13:02):
alongside each other in quite aninteresting way.
So the contemporary artistslike Partey and like some other
artists who paint in these verysort of rich, stylized landscape
(13:23):
style works, you know peoplesee the popularity of these
artists, they see the largeprices that these artists' works
are achieving in galleryexhibitions, in auctions, and
it's you know, it's a very easystep to start to look at the
antecedents for some of theseartists' works and to see an
artist like Salvo.
You know these artists' workswould not be possible without
(13:47):
Salvo's work and the examplethat he set.
So you know it becomes very,very much a part of an ongoing
dialogue to try and experience arevival of interest.
People begin to link the workof modern and contemporary
(14:11):
artists to their work.
They trace the contemporaryartists back to the artists who
have inspired them.
Jeppe Curth (14:34):
Yes, I do think we also can agree that he had some.
He have had some really goodyears last couple of years where
he also, I believe, had had Ithink it was last year a new
auction record of more than 1.1million dollars for for two
meter by three 30 meter worker,I guess it was um.
(14:57):
Is this you know, collectorstoday?
Going back in history andconnect the dots in terms of
some of the new artists,contemporary artists, and
connecting with Salvo?
Nicholas Robinson (15:10):
Yes and no.
I mean obviously it's.
It's not much of a stretch tosee a large painting by Nicholas
Party achieve, let's say, fourmillion dollars, for example,
and then see that a Salvopainting, you know, which, you
know, not so long ago was wortha hundred thousand dollars.
(15:33):
And you know things like thatfrom a very rational perspective
they don't make much sense.
So people are always interestedin looking for new things
(15:55):
because there's already acompelling and interesting
narrative and story that hasbrought this artist kind of full
circle back into contemporaryrelevance.
So it's like a new market forsomething that's somehow still
(16:16):
established in some way and thatmakes a lot of sense.
Still established in some wayand that makes a lot of sense.
You know, um Salvo's work is inis in many museums in Germany,
in Italy, in the United States.
His work is in um is in MoMA inthe Walker Art Center, um he he
participated in Documenta andseveral editions of the Venice
Biennale.
(16:36):
I mean, he's a, he's animportant artist, um, and yet
his, the way his work was valuedby the market, was not um, was
did not have that sort ofequivalency with, with his
status Um.
So obviously people see thisand they start to think that you
know something interesting canbe done to to breathe life in
(17:00):
into this market Um but a fewyears ago his work was exhibited
um by Barbara Gladstone in NewYork, and obviously this is a
fantastic gallery um who has along and illustrious track
record with painters um as wellas artists working in other
media Um but she she's done someextremely good work with with
(17:25):
Salvo Um.
It's my understanding that thatshe collaborates closely with
the Archivio Salvo, which is theartist's archive and estate
that manages all of his umauthentication, all of the um I
guess uh exhibition planning inorder to protect his, his legacy
and uh and reputation Um so so,so Gladstone has been key.
(17:51):
She's exhibited more recentlyum a show of his of his uh ruins
, his classical ruins, a show ofhis of his uh ruins, his
classical ruins, uh paintings inum her Brussels gallery Um.
There's a gallery in Milan thatworked with Salvo at the end of
his life.
He died in 2015.
(18:17):
Um Masolini um they're in inMilan and they've done a lot
with bringing his work to artfairs and bringing his work much
more into a currentconsciousness Um.
There's a really nice galleryin Milan, depart um uh run by uh
Antonio Adamiano.
He's a real scholar of Salvo'swork and he's very devotedly um
(18:38):
been pushing and pushing andpushing the work Um.
Massimiliano Bugno, in Venice,who worked with Salvo for many,
many years during his life um isvery, has a very sophisticated
and nuanced knowledge of theartists, various bodies of work
um and always has fantastic,fantastic works and exhibitions
(19:01):
Um.
So you know, there's there's agrowing awareness of the work
within the market and then oncethat awareness develops and you
start seeing the works croppingup at auction um, and then it
gathers a momentum of its own Um, you know, all of a sudden,
salvo is an art star all overagain posthumously.
(19:23):
So, yes, you know, we see allof these factors coalescing to
create a particular moment.
Unfortunately, there have beentoo many paintings coming up for
auction because there's been asort of a meteoric price rise
and Salvo was, you know, he hemade quite a lot of paintings um
, and he's working consistentlyfor, you know, 30 odd years Um.
(19:49):
So so you know, there are,there are paintings that are
really kind of coming out of thewoodwork, selling at auctions
in London, new York, inprovincial auction houses up and
down Italy, in Hong Kong, Imean.
There's a lot of them, um, andyou know the prices are a little
bit erratic.
Sometimes these works, you know, don't really garner attention
(20:13):
just because the auction is asmall auction.
Um, the works are quite erraticqualitatively.
So you know, there's there'salways reasons why some things
make big prices, some thingsmakes more prices and sometimes
there's a sequence of mediocreprices just because there's too
much material, um, that themarket is expected to absorb
(20:37):
within any given period of time.
So you know, we're seeing whatwe're seeing is we're seeing a
market in the process of sortingitself out.
But, that being said, theprices now are at least double,
maybe three times, what theywere this time two years ago.
(20:59):
So there've been somesignificant changes.
And, like I said, this largepainting, or the one that you
referenced, that sold for amillion plus, you know there
wasn't.
That would have been $125,000not so long ago.
So there've been somesignificant changes in the price
and now they're routinelyfetching pretty handsome sums.
Jeppe Curth (21:21):
Okay, so when considering Salvo's work for
acquisition, what aspect do youbelieve are the most compelling
from an art advisor perspective?
Nicholas Robinson (21:31):
Well, you know, I think the first thing to
say, which is relevant for anyartist whose work you would
consider, is is get to know theworks and find the best example
that you can for the budget thatyou have.
I mean, I would always say youknow, stretch and buy something
better.
Um, I think also that a goodrule of thumb would be to buy
(21:57):
something that is tiny bitbigger, and when I say that I
mean anything 60 to 70centimeters in one of the
dimensions.
Anything of that scale andlarger would be a good idea.
Just because there are, theystart to get a little bit fewer,
get a little bit fewer Um.
(22:21):
You know the very largepaintings.
There's not many of those Um.
And then there's a sort of acategory which is maybe one and
a half meters by two meters insize, and they're they're
relatively scarce and they'rethey're can be quite expensive.
Now, seven $800,000 euros Um,but then.
But then after that you've gotsome paintings that are 1 meter
20, 1 meter 50, you knowpaintings of this scale which
(22:42):
are still somewhat friendly fora domestic setting but still
substantial.
So I think that's a good idea.
And then, of course, you know,the composition should reflect
maybe the archetypes of his workthat I've described earlier
(23:02):
reflect, maybe, the archetypesof his work that I've described
earlier.
Um, but it's possible to buygood examples of his work for 50
, 60, $70,000.
I mean, there's plenty of workscoming up at auction beautiful,
uh, sunset, drenched, seascapes, um, really nice works, um, and
I I think that they're veryreasonably priced for the
(23:23):
quality and the importance thatthey have.
Even still, so, it depends onyour budget, because obviously,
you know, accessibility is oneof those things that is
dependent on how much money youhave to spend.
Jeppe Curth (23:39):
Well it, I guess it often comes down to money.
But if we reflect a bit onSalvo's career, what do you see
as his lasting legacy in the artworld, and how does this
influence your advice to clients?
Nicholas Robinson (23:56):
Well, I think that one of the things about
Salvo is that he's, you knowhe's.
He's a bit of an outlier.
He started to become interestedin painting before there was
this great revival in paintingat the end of the 1970s and
throughout the 1980s.
So he doesn't really fit intoany particular box that
(24:17):
prescribes an artist or artistsin terms of adherence, adherence
to a movement or or such Um, so.
So, really, it's, it's, youknow, he's a, he's a distinctive
character who very singularlystuck to his ideals, um, and to
the kinds of things that hewanted to do.
(24:39):
I mean, there's enormousrepetition in the scenes that he
painted, you know, scenes ofSantana, a small village in the
foothills of the Alps, closeoutside, somewhat outside Turin,
and close to the border withFrance.
I mean he painted the same barn, the same tree, the same church
(25:00):
spire, with a plowed fields andthe mountains beyond.
He painted this over and overagain in the summertime, in the
wintertime snow on the ground,moon in the sky.
You know the, the, the, the,the lush promise of spring, the
sort of faded grandeur of summeras it moves into early autumn.
I mean, all of these, all ofthese repetitions, are exercises
(25:25):
in conveying these, these,these, these key, key things
that Salvo was seeking tocommunicate.
So I think, you know, thesepaintings are very timeless
paintings.
I mean to to look at a sort of amaybe a similar yet very
different artist.
To look at the Italian artistMirandi, for instance.
(25:45):
You know he painted these verydry, still life paintings, very
restful, very specific, somewhatlimited palette of colors, and
he did them over and over again.
These vessels, this sense ofstillness, and you know, his
(26:06):
paintings are just instantlyrecognizable for this.
You know, the Impressionistpainter, henri Fantin Latour,
who transitioned from the sortof academic school of the third
quarter of the nuance of oflight, the way, the way it
(26:40):
catches on the surface of this,of these, these petals of this,
of this foliage, um, you know,salvo is, is, is, is like this.
He just encapsulates a certainum set of, uh, painterly
expectations in terms of whatyou want to see, what you expect
to see, and he does it over andover, and some examples of his
(27:02):
work are better than others.
Jeppe Curth (27:09):
No-transcript so nick.
Without diving too deeply intospecifics, could you share how
selfless work might fit into awell-created collection with
(27:31):
from both the aesthetic andvalue?
Nicholas Robinson (27:34):
standpoint.
Well, I mean, any collection isis.
There's no such thing as astandardized collection.
You know, people buy things forfor various reasons.
I mean, we buy his work, likemany artists, because we, we
admire it, we recognize acertain quality and we recognize
a certain opportunity, becausewe believe that his work is
(27:58):
underestimated and undervaluedvis-a-vis so many other things
that are out there, and webelieve in the potential and the
likelihood of his work to wellcontinue to be sort of elevated
into a status and a marketrecognition that is better than
(28:18):
is currently the case.
Um, and so I, you know many ofthe artists that we look to.
You could, you could describethem, uh, in that, in that kind
of way, in those sorts of terms.
Um, you know, we, we like to bestudents of history, we like to
do a deep dive, we like to toto research, we like to travel
(28:40):
and get to know the context.
Um, that informed these artistsand the various protagonists
that have been involved in, in,in bringing the artists back to
the fore.
Um, so, you know, does it fitin with, I mean, you know,
Salvo's work is, it could fit inwith all kinds of contemporary,
contemporary painting.
There's a aestheticallychallenging um, in in the way
(29:17):
that some things are that mightmight be harsh or or or might be
difficult to understandvisually.
Um, so you know it's.
It comes down to what are yourobjectives when you buy
something.
Do you want to buy somethingbecause you love it?
You want to love it, you wantto make good financial sense in
terms of putting money into it,rather than maybe wasting money
(29:41):
on something that might beoverpriced or highly speculative
.
I mean, these are the kinds ofobjectives that we, that we go
for, rather than any particular,you know, thematic, oratic or
whatever kind of objectives thatother people may have with
their acquisitions or theircollecting.
Jeppe Curth (30:02):
Yeah, as we normally say that there's enough
things out there to buy, so itis possible and we should
combine the two factors that welove it and it's a good thing to
put money into.
Maybe can you elaborate on thevalue position we have on Salvo
that you just mentioned.
Nicholas Robinson (30:21):
Well, I mean, you know, I think that the
paintings have been veryinexpensive for a long time.
I mean, the first Salvopaintings that we were buying
were, you know, 12 and 15,000euros, and equivalent paintings
are now 60 and 70,000 euros.
So of course it's.
It's changed a lot in a in arelatively short space of time.
(30:43):
But, um, you know, I don't, forme, I don't look at that price,
uh, only in relation to Salvo.
I look at that price inrelation to other other things
that one could buy out there inthe market and I and I, you know
, if it feels reasonable to meprice-wise relative to those
(31:05):
things, then then I feelinclined to continue buying or
advising people that it's asensible or safe or recommended
thing for them to buy too.
There's going to be asignificant exhibition, the
largest survey exhibition ofSalvo's work since he died in
(31:26):
2015.
That's going to take place atthe Pinacoteca Agnelli, which is
a division of the AgnelliFoundation, the industrialist
family in Italy that have a longhistory of collecting and
patronage and culturalleadership in Italy.
(31:49):
So that's going to take placeat the end of this year and run
for about six months.
So that's going to take placeat the end of this year and run
for about six months.
I don't see people running outof interest in these works, and
I just think that they'resufficiently interesting and
beautiful that his work isestablished in a new way, at a
(32:10):
newly elevated status, and Ithink it's going to continue.
I don't think it's done so.
That would be my feeling aboutthe work and that's what would
motivate me to continue toacquire his work.
Jeppe Curth (32:27):
Yeah, I totally agree, Nick.
For someone looking to exploreSalvo's work further, where
might they start and how canthis knowledge we just shared
benefit them in their journey asan art collector?
Nicholas Robinson (32:42):
Well, look and learn.
It's like, with so many things,coming to something from some
position of knowledge andunderstanding is useful.
You know, the works are veryeasy to look at and it's very
easy to understand the variousarchetypes that he painted, be
(33:04):
it the ruins, the mountainvalleys, the, the seascapes, the
, the.
You know they're all of aclearly defined type.
Um, if you wish to to to seemany um, then you know you can
go to the Archivia Salva website.
(33:27):
They've got great biographicalinformation, very detailed of
course, um, and you can see lotsof examples uh there on their
website.
Um, barbara Gladstone's websitehas got some really nice um uh
installation images of some ofthe exhibitions that she has
hosted.
And then, and then, if you, ifyou search for Salvo review um
(33:52):
art forum, um art forum has agreat archive of um exhibition
reviews going back 30 or 40years.
So you can, you can, you canread reviews of Salvo's historic
exhibitions and you can see howthe opinions of his work were
(34:12):
uh at the time of writing.
You can see how those opinionstally with more contemporary
interpretations.
And you know there's yeah, Imean there's a world of
information online, just like somany things, so it's not
difficult to delve into it insome detail.
Jeppe Curth (34:30):
Thank you, Nick.
Really good insights.
Do you think we missed anything?
Anything you want to add?
Nicholas Robinson (34:37):
no, I don't think so.
I mean, I seem to spend a lotof time listening to the sound
of my own voice here what is?
your personal favorite motif.
Well, I think I really like thenocturnal works.
I find there's a sort of aquietude in them that's really
quite beautiful.
(34:58):
It's not probably a typicalchoice, but I think that somehow
, because there's less light inthese paintings, definitively I
think that what he does withsuch an economical use of light
is so fantastic and so evocativethat I just think that they
really showcase his reallyexquisite abilities.
(35:21):
Um, but, but there's so many.
I mean his sunset paintings.
You know I love the way hepaints the trees in autumn with
these lush oranges, uh, autumnalhues, um, his pink blossoms
from the spring.
I mean he's a great, greatpainter and I really encourage,
(35:41):
just for sheer pleasure, just toreally look at them as much as
you can.
Jeppe Curth (35:48):
Thank you, nick.
Last advice If you need anyhelp buying selling art, if you
need any help buying selling art, you're always welcome to
contact us at jeppe atnordicartpartnerscom, and thank
you for this time.
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