August 12, 2025 • 39 mins
What happens when life knocks you down with a diagnosis you never expected? For Pam Sandrock, a breast cancer diagnosis at 37 became the catalyst for a complete transformation in how she approached life, decision-making, and personal boundaries.
Pam shares her powerful journey from devastation to empowerment, revealing how cancer forced her to confront mortality and reimagine her priorities. "I made a commitment to live long and live strong," she explains, describing how this mantra has shaped everything from her physical habits to her emotional responses. Her story isn't just about surviving—it's about finding clarity through crisis.
One of the most profound lessons Pam discovered was the freedom that comes from saying no. Before cancer, she volunteered for everything, chaired committees, and rarely declined opportunities to help. Her diagnosis gave her permission to evaluate what truly mattered and decline commitments that didn't align with her values or energy. "Obligation leads to resentment," she notes, a simple but revolutionary insight that transformed her relationships and daily experience.
The conversation delves into practical strategies for building confidence through action rather than waiting to feel ready. Pam explains that confidence isn't something you're born with—it's something you develop through experience and competence. Her perspective on resilience is equally refreshing: "When hardship comes, instead of asking 'why me?', I just think 'I guess it's my turn'." This shift from resistance to curiosity makes challenges infinitely more manageable.
For anyone facing difficult decisions, feeling stuck in obligation, or searching for clarity about what they truly want, Pam's insights offer a roadmap to greater authenticity and purpose. Her story reminds us that while we can't always choose what happens to us, we absolutely can choose how we respond—and sometimes, our greatest challenges become our greatest teachers.
Connect with Pam:
Instagram: @noknockouts
https://www.instagram.com/noknockouts/
Facebook: No Knockouts
https://www.facebook.com/noknockouts
Or visit noknockouts.com for coaching resources and free guides.
https://noknockouts.com/
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/no-knockouts-with-pam-sandrock/id1811892908
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Confidence Shortcut, the podcast
for ambitious creatives andentrepreneurs who are ready to
stop overthinking, take boldaction and finally step into the
life they've been dreamingabout.
I'm your host, nikki Sternermom, actor, comedian and
producer.
After years of playing smalland waiting to feel ready, I
went on a courage quest andfound a shortcut to confidence.
(00:21):
Each week, I'll bring you realstories, simple steps and
conversations with experts inmindset courage and confidence,
plus heart-to-hearts with fellowcreatives who are turning their
dreams into reality.
It's time to get unstuck andstart showing up.
Let's dive in.
Welcome to the ConfidenceShortcut.
I'm your host, nikki Sterner.
(00:41):
Today's guest is Pam Sandrock, anative Texan wife, mom of two
college boys and the inspiringvoice behind the no Knockouts
podcast.
After two decades as a stay athome mom and navigating a
serious health scare, pamreinvented herself as a
purpose-driven life coach,helping midlife women shift from
survival mode into thriving.
(01:03):
She's all about deepconversations, personal
alignment and turning pain intopower.
Whether she's jogging outdoors,coaching clients or baking
something sweet, pam iscommitted to living well, not
just being alive, and guidingothers to do the same.
Please welcome to the show, pamSandrock.
Hello, hi, thanks for having me.
(01:24):
Nikki, it's so nice to have youhere today.
I'm so excited to hear aboutyour story and to go into a
little bit about what you wentthrough, some of the challenges
that you had.
I want to start with whatyou're super passionate about
right now and just tell us whatyou're doing and who you are.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Wow.
Okay, first, I just want tohonor you for starting your
podcast, because I think it'sgoing to be a great service to
women in the world that we livein right now, and I just want to
honor your efforts that you'reputting towards that.
So good job.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Thank you, and you too, yeah, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
That is where my efforts are right now is.
I launched my own podcast a fewweeks back and it is my little
mini baby right now.
It's what I'm putting towards alot of effort towards and
trying to develop and grow notonly the podcast but me in the
process.
So it's a work in progress andI'm having a lot of fun doing it
(02:18):
.
My podcast is called noKnockouts and it goes alongside
my coaching business, which isalso no Knockouts, which is
rooted in resilience, intentionand really emotional
intelligence.
I think a lot of times people,especially our age, as we get to
(02:38):
the middle part of our life, wedon't even know what we want.
We say I don't know what I want.
When somebody asks you and Ihelp people dive into that
figure out what they want, setan aim, let them figure out
where they're going to go inlife, expect challenges along
the way, learn how to beresilient through whatever life
throws at you and be emotionallymature as we encounter hardship
(03:03):
and struggle along the way.
So that's a summary.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
What types of questions do you ask people that
you work with?
Because I know a lot of women,like you said, do wonder.
Well, I don't really know.
I've spent so many yearshelping others, raising kids,
focusing on other things, that Idon't really even know what I
want.
So how do you hold space forthem?
What do you ask them?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, obviously it's situational, but I have to
really give somebody time toquiet down, because a lot of
times we have these candidanswers that we spit out on the
outside but that's our braintalking and we know from our
heart and we know from our souland that's not something you can
access like in the moment.
And we have to quiet down andreally find where our truth lies
inside of us.
(03:44):
And some of that is justlistening to our body and
listening to our basically yourintuition and your gut.
And so I go through a processwith that.
But I ask people questions likeif you had the ideal day, what
would your day look like?
Where would you go?
Who would be there with you?
Would you be alone or would youactually have someone with you?
(04:05):
And what would you be doing?
And we don't think that becausewe're so caught up in the
day-to-day.
We're going to work, we'regetting the laundry done, we're
handling the yard work, we'retaking the kids to the doctor or
taking them to college.
Whatever stage of life you'rein, or if you're midlife, you
may be handling your own parents.
You're stage of life you're in,or if you're midlife, you may
(04:27):
be handling your own parents.
You're stuck in that middleground and so it's hard to see
through that.
So we have to quiet the noise,all the drama in our head, and
figure out what does your I-daydeal look like?
Is it loud or is it quiet?
And then we start to decipherfrom there.
But if you ever get to thispoint where you're yourself and
you want to decipher throughthat, you say what do I want?
(04:48):
And then go what do I reallywant?
Because that means somethingdifferent than what I want.
And then if you take it downfurther and you say no, what do
I really really, really want?
Because that takes it just alittle bit deeper.
And something that works, ispretty effective, is saying if
(05:12):
you didn't say it out loud, whatwould you want?
Because your insights reallyknow.
And another version of that isif you don't know, what would
God say?
The answer is Because God knowswhat you want.
You can't keep it a secret.
A lot of times we squash ourwants because of society, or we
(05:35):
don't want to seem greedy, or weshould be happy already, but
we're not, and so we don't wantto come across as greedy or
needy or demanding, and so wedon't want to be honest on the
outside, but on the inside wereally do know what we want.
You just have to access it.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
I love that you find honesty on the inside.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Yeah, it's in the depths.
It's not on the surface, it'sin the depths that's so good.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Will you tell us a little bit about maybe a low
point and what you went throughthe most challenging time?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
yeah, 10 years ago, 2015, I was 37 years old and I
was diagnosed with breast cancer.
I found the lump myself andwent through that very scary
time of going to doctorsfiguring it out and, needless to
say, it knocked me off myrocker.
I was devastated by it.
I couldn't justify why I got itand I mentally and emotionally
(06:36):
needed to blame something,because I didn't understand.
I was only 37.
I was in my own mind.
I was healthy, I didn't drink,I didn't smoke, I never healthy,
I didn't drink, I didn't smoke,I never had.
I did genetic testing and allmy genetic tests came back as
negative or clean.
I didn't have a genetic problemand I just didn't understand
and I couldn't find someone orsomething to blame it on, and
(07:00):
that really made me spiral to mydepths.
I felt so personally attacked,like it wasn't like this thing
that just happened.
It was personal, and I wasashamed and devastated and I
couldn't learn from it because Icouldn't figure out what I did
wrong, to make it better, toprevent it again or to tell
somebody else, and so I was inemotional turmoil for quite some
(07:21):
time.
So I was in emotional turmoilfor quite some time, trying to
make peace with that and goingthrough that process, going
through surgeries or anythinglike that, it didn't make it
better, it just it took thecancer away but it didn't cure
my mind, it didn't heal my soul.
(07:42):
I was so bruised, I was sodamaged and I had to somehow
make peace with that.
And really that was 10 yearsago.
But those were some of the earlyseeds of why no knockouts exist
today.
You know, those were puretrials for me and I had to work
through them and because of that, because I was forced to do
(08:04):
that, I learned so much and Idon't want those efforts and
those lessons to be wasted.
So I use that pain I had topropel myself forward and to
help others through whateverthey're going through, whether
it be a big pain or a littlepain or just a concern or just a
striving for betterment.
But I just don't want to wasteany lesson I got out of that.
(08:29):
So I've dedicated myself tohelping others who want help.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
I love that.
What does that look like?
Speaker 2 (08:37):
When I was going through it.
It was messy.
It was messy, I mean.
I cried.
I put on a pretty face on theoutside, I wasn't very vocal
about it.
Hardly anybody knew what I wasgoing through.
I kept it very secret because Ifight battles internally.
I fight battles from the insideout and I didn't feel like I
needed distractions from others.
(08:59):
So I kept a lot of it to myself.
But a lot of times I would.
I felt like a bubbling cauldron.
I felt I had thoughts andemotions that were just bubbling
out at the surface and I didn'tknow what to do with them.
So a lot of times I would run toa journal and I would write
things down.
It wasn't a formal processwhere I would sit down every day
at a certain time and askmyself questions.
(09:21):
It was.
I ran to my journal when I hadto get something out of my head
because my brain and my mind wasnoisy.
It was dramatic and I couldn'tprocess it all.
It was too much for me at thatpoint of life in life, because I
was also a stay-at-home mom,taking care of two young kids at
that time, and I didn't want todetract from my real job, which
(09:44):
was being a mom because I wasbattling cancer and I would run
to my journal and get things outof my head and those weren't
even complete sentences,sometimes they were just
thoughts that I would just jotdown just to get it out, and I
would sit in quiet and pray.
I would pray.
I referred to Romans 5.3.
(10:05):
Romans 5.3 says something alongthe lines of we all suffer, but
in our suffering we createendurance, and endurance creates
character and character bringshope.
And so I would sit and readthat verse over and over.
I prayed in silence to God andsaid just help me get through
this.
I'd say Jesus, hold my hand asI walk into any doctor's
(10:27):
appointment.
I would say, jesus, just holdmy hand.
And so I was silently trying tostay grounded and keep my feet
on the ground.
I listened to music a lot.
I created a playlist.
I called it Christian Country.
I love country music and I justcreated a playlist of soft,
(10:48):
easy listening Christian countrysongs and I played that all the
time.
I played it as I cooked, Iplayed it as I got dressed in
the morning, I played it anytimein my headphones when I went
for a walk or a jog, and that,just that, helped me a lot, but
the walking and the jogging.
I was already active, but Ireally dove into being physical.
I really dove into running more.
(11:10):
I really made a commitment tolive long and strong.
That's been my mantra sincewhat I call my cancer time.
But I really made a commitmentto live long and live strong,
and that means emotionally,physically, spiritually, in
every way I can come up with.
I just want to do it well, andso I would run and stay
(11:32):
physically fit and get out of myhead, get out of my body, and
that was really helpful.
You're an athlete as well right, nikki?
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah, I do.
I do the same thing.
I love getting in my body.
It helps me to get out of myhead.
Something about the physicalstrength just transfers into my
mental strength and overall allof it, my whole persona.
I feel like I can do anythingwhen I've pushed myself in the
gym and it's amazing because Ido believe in the habits that
you create just can be sopowerful.
(12:03):
I didn't realize that you couldchange your body in your
forties so much with a littlebit of progressive overload or
putting yourself in anuncomfortable position.
I never used to hold things orlike really feel that
uncomfortable place when you'relifting weight.
Maybe it's like pushing yourselfrunning to the next level.
But I think when you do that inthat uncomfortable place, you
(12:26):
expand your growth so much toplaces that you never thought
possible, and so I do think thatyour physical is so attached to
your mental and your spiritual,like you're saying here.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah, it's mind over body really, because when we
tire out physically, you canstill keep going.
We know this.
You just have to push yourself,yeah, and so it.
The mind and the body reallyare partners.
And so when we get tired anddon't want to push ourselves in
the gym or with the weights orthe run, you keep going because
(12:58):
you're just building your ownresilience is what you're doing.
You're making yourself strongerfor whatever comes next, and so
that's huge, huge.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
That's huge to me is staying physically fit if you've
been living with chronicsymptoms like pain, brain fog,
sensitivity to smells, light orsound, it might not just be your
body, it could be your brain,stuck in a survival loop.
Dnrs stands for dynamic neuralretraining.
It's a science-backed programthat helps rewire the limbic
(13:28):
system, the part of the brainresponsible for fear, fight or
flight and overreaction toeveryday things.
It changed everything for me,helping me heal and return to
the creative life I love.
If this speaks to you, clickthe link in the caption.
It might be the answer you'relooking for.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
But also at that time , I think, going through that
process of I'd take my kids toschool and I'd come home and I'd
pout and I'd feel sorry formyself and I would have to make
doctor's appointments or have todo whatever you have to do
through this process I reallylearned to say no.
I really learned what wasimportant to say yes to and I
(14:07):
really learned how to say no.
Before this, I was so involvedat my kid's school.
I was on the PTO, I waschairman of this.
I volunteered for anything thatcame up.
Any email or phone call or signup that came in, I was on it.
And with this one I couldn't doit because I was at doctor's
(14:27):
appointments or recovering fromsome surgery, but I also didn't
want to do so much of it.
I still wanted to, but I wasable to decipher yes, this is in
alignment with who I want to beand no, this isn't.
I'm only doing it out ofobligation and obligation
doesn't feel good.
Obligation leads to resentmentand I didn't want any part of
(14:53):
that.
I wanted to clean up every areaof my life that didn't feel
good and in no way was I goingto be obligated to things that
were going to lead me to feelingbitter or resentment, and so
that has helped me from thentill now and will continue.
I know how to say no.
I don't have to do things outof obligation.
I do them because I want to,and that is a huge thing that I
(15:14):
think anybody can learn from you.
Do not have to do all thethings.
Pick and choose what's rightfor you.
That's been huge.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
There's a lot of power in using your time how you
want to, versus just giving itaway to anybody who wants it.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Well, and I think when we're younger you don't
really know what you don't know.
You try all the things, youthink you're supposed to do
these things, but over time yourealize there's no supposed to.
I'm an adult and I can choosewhat I want to do, and society
and culture and maybe ourupbringing, makes us feel like
(15:52):
we have to do certain things.
But in reality we're grownadults.
We don't have to do anything.
We can do whatever we want todo.
I mean within reason, of course,right, the clarity I got from
having to say no or getting tosay no was extremely powerful.
And in my mind, when I'd get anemail that came in and said,
hey, we need volunteers for thiswhere I normally would have
(16:14):
said yes, I would answerpolitely and say no, but in my
mind I was saying I'm sorry, Ican't, I have to go fight cancer
, and that was so much moreimportant.
I'm sorry, I can't, I have togo fight cancer, and that was so
much more important.
And fighting cancer becamereally a path to me, figuring it
out, figuring out who I was.
It became a path to finding mypurest, most authentic self and
(16:37):
realizing what was important tome and what was not, which I
think we all go through at sometime.
I was just forced into it at acertain time in life.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
So what did you let go of?
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Obligation.
Anything specific I I said no toa lot of things at school.
I got off.
I didn't bring snacks to everyevent.
I didn't have to head them uplike I once thought I would.
I just wanted to be aparticipant, not the leader of
everything.
Sometimes I just wanted to showup with the paper plates, not
organize the entire event, andso it allowed me to pull back
(17:13):
and do just what I wanted to donot what I felt like I had to do
, because, as a stay at home mom, I thought I had all this time
and I should be leading thesethings.
That's not true.
I still have a life.
I still have things I want todo for me and for my husband and
his business, and so on and soforth, and so I didn't feel the
obligation to do some of that.
But even within my own family,like within my own family of
(17:35):
origin or my husband's family,when they wanted us to do
something, I learned to say Idon't really want to do that
this weekend, or I don't reallywant to go out to eat this time,
I want to stay home tonight, orwhatever it is.
It just brought clarity to theday-to-day moments, and that was
helpful.
It still is.
It still is.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
How do you stay organized?
Do you have a time in themorning where you look at your
calendar?
What do you do for that?
Speaker 2 (18:01):
with everything.
I'm super organized.
I laugh because my husbandwould laugh at me.
I'm super organized, not super.
I don't want to say that I'mpretty organized.
I have a calendar on the sideof my fridge that I print out
every month and keeps us all ontrack.
I have my Google email, myGoogle calendar online.
I don't like clutter in my life, so my public space, my spaces
(18:27):
behind closets most of them arevery organized and clutter-free.
So having a clear, clutter-freespace allows me to have a clear
, clutter-free mind and itallows me to make decisions
faster and more accurately.
The things around me theclutter, the things when they're
(18:47):
out of place or I don't needthat, I don't use it, I get rid
of it because it's distractingto me.
So is that a foreign concept?
I don't think so.
It's just something that's beenan important part of my life.
I don't like to accumulate alot of things because things
don't mean a darn thing, andthat's something cancer taught
(19:09):
me.
Things don't mean a thing, andso I have what I need, but I
don't like to keep a lot ofextra.
I just feel weighted down byextra things and I don't like
distractions, and clutter is adistraction to me.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Yeah, it totally is, and, like you said, it's heavy.
I wish I was better, but myhusband is really good at
organizing things and I tend toaccumulate papers and piles, and
so that's why I was asking ifyou have a system for it.
I'm the opposite.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I get rid of things.
I don't do it.
I do it regularly, but not on aschedule.
So, like at the end of theschool year, we would go through
everybody's backpack andeverything we accumulated
throughout the year and chunkwhat we wanted and then keep the
rest.
And if it was a keep, we weregoing to organize it in an
organized fashion, not justleave it in a box.
What does that mean?
We were going to organize it inan organized fashion, not just
leave it in a box.
What does that mean?
Well, from the kids' standpoint, I would take all of their
(20:03):
whatever math tests they wantedto keep and we'd have a math
folder and we'd have an Englishfolder or whatever it was.
And then it is in a like asterilite bin, like a plastic
bin, labeled for that schoolyear.
And as time went on, we keptless, but so multiple school
years might be in the same bin.
But my closet is color coded.
My closet is all the blueshirts are together, all the red
(20:26):
shirts are together, all thewhite and the long sleeves are
separate from short sleeves.
I just sometimes getting stuckin indecision really drains
energy, not just mine butanybody's.
When we get stuck in indecision, we lose our power, and so I
just like to make decisionmaking easy, and that's staying
organized is a way for me to dothat.
So you don't have piles is whatyou're saying?
(20:48):
I do, everybody does, but not alot, and if they're a pile,
they're mostly organized Like.
I have a pile outside of thisroom right now.
One of my kids came home fromcollege and I don't know where
to put it all yet, because someof it I'm not sure if it's going
to go back with him to hisapartment next fall or if it's
going to get donated.
(21:10):
So I need to go, we need to gothrough that pile.
So I have piles, just not a tonof them, and they don't last
very long.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
What about pictures?
Do you organize your pictures?
Yes, how do you do?
Speaker 2 (21:22):
that my pictures go off my phone onto my computer by
date, by month in a year.
So I have a 2025 folder andthen within it I have a January
folder, a February folder.
So they're organized by monthwithin the year on the computer,
and videos too in there Videosas well.
(21:43):
But the videos I'll put intheir own video folder so
they're separate from thepictures.
That way if I need to run to it, if I know there's a video, I
don't have to sort through themall, just go to the video, month
and year.
For that I used to.
I haven't done it in a fewyears.
Every summer I'd create ashutterfly photo book and put
all of our summer pictures in itand that was like our memory
(22:03):
book for the summer, and I'm alittle behind on that.
But as our kids get older mykids are college age we took
less pictures.
You didn't take a picture ofthem every time they jumped in
the swimming pool.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
When they're 17, like they do when they're six.
Do they still let you takepictures when they're 17, like
they do when they're six.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Do they still let you take pictures?
Yes and no.
Sometimes I get the side eye orthe frown, but they're used to
me so they know they have tocomply.
I'm going to persist, so theymay as well comply sooner rather
than later.
They can still give me the sideeye, but I'm still going to do
it.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
I love that Same.
So I have a daughter in college.
She's going to be a junior nextyear, and then one that just
graduated high school, so she'llalso be in college next year,
and then our son is going to bea junior in high school.
So yeah, they're all okay, momget it over with.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah.
So my older son, who's 20,almost 21, he's come back.
He didn't like it for a whilebut now he understands.
I think with him off at collegefor a while, he appreciates
having some of those memoriesand some of those pictures and
so he's reverting back to.
This is a cool thing To where,as my 19 year old not so much he
thinks it's pretty stupid rightabout now.
(23:09):
But too bad, that's fun.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Yeah, confidence doesn't come first.
Action and habits do.
That's why I created theConfidence Kickstart Morning
Routine a 15-minute free guideto help you build habits that
actually work.
You'll get powerful journalprompts, a guided audio
meditation and my three-partconfidence shortcut system,
mindset Path and Action.
It's the exact routine I use toget up on stage and speak up.
(23:36):
No more shrinking orsecond-guessing the link's in
the caption.
Grab it now and build theconfidence to move forward every
single day.
Okay, I wanted to get to ourconfidence quickfire round,
which is the five questions thatwe ask at the end of every
conversation to get your pointof view on them All righty.
So the first one is can youplease define confidence and
(24:00):
what that is to you?
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Let's see here.
I would say confidence is acertainty that you can do
something or a certainty thatsomeone can do something.
It's feeling confident, it'sfeeling certain.
But the thing is you're notalways going to feel that.
You know.
Any beginner of anythingdoesn't have certainty nor
confidence, so you have topersist whether you have that
(24:23):
feeling or not.
Confidence comes from doing thethings and gaining skills and
gaining ability.
You're gaining competencethrough experience, which makes
you confident.
So it's really a loop.
But to me, confidence is acertainty that you can do
something.
It's feeling certain inyourself before you progress.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
I love that.
Yeah, you're right.
It's not like you have itbefore you do the thing.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
No it's a skill you build.
It's a skill you build.
You don't start out confident.
You're not born confident.
You don't start out learninghow to walk.
It's something you build.
And confident you don't startout learning how to walk.
It's something you build.
And thank goodness right,because you can always get
better, and so you have to dothings to gain your competence,
which grow your confidence, andthen you become certain.
(25:10):
But you're never going toalways be fully confident or
fully certain, because newexperiences and new challenges
are always going to come up.
You're always going to be abeginner at something, and so
you have to embrace thebeginning, knowing very little,
but you're just going to growmore and grow through it and get
better and more confident.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
And that ties into you talk a lot about resilience,
right, I do.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
I do, rooted in resilience, because I think a
lot of people, I'll say, live inlike a fairy tale world.
They think they shouldn't haveany struggle or they should have
less struggle.
But everybody struggles.
I don't care what point in lifeyou're at, you're going to have
some hardship or struggle comeyour way, and so just accepting
(25:52):
that you're going to havestruggle and accepting it as
part of life is really the firststep in being resilient.
So when it happens, it's not oh, why me I'm going to play the
victim.
It's oh, I guess it's just myturn.
It's my turn to have a hardshiptoday or tomorrow or week or
month or however long it lasts.
It's just my turn and I'm goingto bounce back, or I'm going to
bounce forward and I'm going tocome out of this one way or
(26:15):
another.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
I love that perspective on it, just
expecting it one way or another.
I love that perspective on itjust expecting it.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Yeah, you can't predict what's going to happen.
Something is going toeventually be hard for you and
it's going to be challenging,whether it be your Wi-Fi go out
or your cell phone breaks, oryou go through a career change
or your loss of a loved one.
It's going to happen andhardship we're not immune to it.
It's part of life, and so, justwhen it happens, instead of it
(26:43):
being so dramatic and sodevastating, just be like huh, I
guess it's my turn Now.
I got to deal with it and thenI'll move forward.
So, it just makes it easy.
Just allow hardship to be easyUnderstanding.
That's easier said than done,but once you can realize you're
not alone in hardship andstruggle, you're already
(27:05):
starting off better.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
So that's a great mindset trick is just saying oh,
it's my turn.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
It's my turn.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Yeah, letting yourself know.
Oh, everybody goes through this, it's just my turn.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
I love that, that's right, that's right, and
everybody's hardship isdifferent.
So you're like, oh, this iswhat I got today, this is the
card I drew, or this is theshort straw for today, or
whatever's handed your way.
It's just huh interesting Ifyou meet it with curiosity
instead of like resisting andpushing it away.
If you just let it in and becurious about it and be like, oh
(27:36):
, it's my turn.
It really does make it easierbecause you don't create all the
drama in your brain around it.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Yeah, curiosity versus resistance.
I love that.
Yeah, that's a good one.
I like that.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Okay, yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
The second question is what's one bold move you made
before you felt ready?
Speaker 2 (27:54):
I got a double mastectomy.
I don't think you're ever goingto be ready to amputate part of
your body.
I didn't have to do that.
It was a choice for me.
I had other options, but Ichose to do that because it was
the most aggressive physicalthing I could do regarding my
cancer.
That, I thought, helped me themost in the long run.
(28:14):
And I don't know that you cansay, hey, today's the day, I
want to have a major surgery,but I was confident in my
decision because I knew, out ofall the options that were there,
that was the best case scenarioin my opinion.
So that's probably the boldestthing I've ever done is to make
that decision.
Even though I didn't have to doit, I chose to do that and
(28:35):
that's empowering.
When you choose your outcome asopposed to it being forced on
you.
Choosing bold, choosing to bedaring that's powerful.
Choice is powerful.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Do you feel like that's given you momentum, that
choice?
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Massive momentum.
Doing that, making thatdecision, making that choice.
Yes, I got to choose and Ichose what was best for me.
In the long run, I left.
I didn't leave a lot on thetable.
I was an athlete always growingup.
I played tons of sports and Iwas a go big or go home kind of
girl go big or go home kind ofplayer and this was my go big or
(29:11):
go home.
This was my go big.
I'm going all in, I want it alloff and then I want to live my
life, and so knowing that I canmake that decision has empowered
me to make every other decisioneasy or easier.
There are plenty of things thataren't easy, but it really
keeps it in a perspective.
If I can do that, I can makeother decisions.
(29:32):
It really keeps it in aperspective.
If I can do that, I can makeother decisions.
I can empower myself to do lotsof things that are easier than
that.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
It does it gives me power and perspective.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
I'm curious which sports you did.
Okay, so I grew up in a smalltown so you got to play anything
, right.
There wasn't this whole onesport thing.
So I played volleyball in thefall, which I loved.
Volleyball is my favorite.
I did not play in the winter.
I took basketball season offand then in the spring I did
(30:06):
track, golf ball andpowerlifting.
I played all three sports.
But then I played tennis injunior high, which I didn't play
in high school because Icouldn't fit it in.
It was one more spring sportthat couldn't work.
But I still love tennis too andI just picked up pickleball,
like a week or two ago, and I'mloving it, but I like volleyball
.
I love volleyball andpowerlifting has just made has
(30:27):
been a passion just because itkeeps me strong.
In no way am I a powerlifternow, but I still lift weights
just to stay healthy.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Do you play sports?
Yeah, I grew up in a small townas well, like 3000 people and
yeah, I did basketball in thefall, which was my favorite, and
then I did volleyball for myfirst three years of high school
and then I did boys basketballcheerleading my senior year
because we got to do danceroutines for halftimes and stuff
like that, which I love dancingas well.
I did that in college danceteam and then I did track, track
(30:58):
and field.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
So did you do long distance track or short distance
.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
What did you do?
I was not a sprinter, I didlong distance.
Yeah, what about you?
Speaker 2 (31:06):
I was a sprinter.
The longest I did was the 400.
The longest.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
I did was the 400.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Yeah, you were fast.
Huh, yeah, that was fun stuff.
Oh, wow, it was a 400.
Yeah, fast, huh, yeah, that wasfun stuff.
Now, wouldn't it be funny to gosprint now, like that's
something I don't do anymore?
It would be funny.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Yeah, I don't know if it would be funny.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Yeah, it wouldn't be fun, but it'd be funny, funny,
haha, look at that.
No cameras allowed, that'sright.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Okay, what's your next question?
Okay, so how do you quiet yourinner critic?
Oh, I get quiet.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
I get quiet and I root back down to what's
important to me in my soul.
So I go down to my truth andrealize tomorrow is not promised
.
So, whatever is judging me inmy head or I'm fearful about, I
dare myself to do whatever Ihave to do.
Because why not?
(31:58):
Because tomorrow's not promised.
Who knows what tomorrow brings?
So just do it now.
What are you waiting for?
So when I get fearful or I'mafraid of judgment or afraid of
not being liked, I just go.
Who cares?
We're all going to die, just doit and have fun.
And if fear wants to still bethere, I just go.
Who cares?
We're all going to die, just doit and have fun.
And if fear wants to still bethere, I just bring it along
(32:18):
with me.
I just either ignore fear orsay come along, anyway, I'm
going for the ride, I'm notgoing to not live just because
I'm afraid.
So sometimes I quiet the innercritic to find who I am, but
other times I just let it comealong with me and be like I'm
doing this anyway.
I just become rebellious to it,become daring or bold, like we
were talking about earlier.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
I love that.
I don't know if it will ever goaway.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
No, I think it's something we live with.
I think it's something we livewith.
I think back to my grandmother.
I still have one grandmotheralive, but one of my other one
that passed away in 2019, shecared every day.
She got dressed, full makeup,pretty clothes.
She was in her 80s, stillmaking herself presentable
because I don't know why, butshe always cared about how she
(33:09):
looked.
I never thought to ask her atthat time why do you do this?
Are you afraid of judgment?
Was it that?
I don't know.
It was a different time of life, we grew up in different times
of life, but I don't think thatfear of criticism or comparison
or judgment ever goes away.
I think we live with it.
It's just dealing with it, andas we grow, as we get older, I
(33:32):
think we care less about it.
I know I do.
I care less, much less aboutwhat somebody thinks of me now
than I did say when I was 15.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
We're just different people, we're just different
people.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
If I want to be afraid, just come along with me,
because I'm probably going todo it anyway.
So at that point I'm justrebelling against it, saying you
can be there, but I'm stillmoving forward.
Okay, what's?
Speaker 1 (33:55):
one habit that's helped you build real confidence
Action.
Like you're just talking aboutright.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Yeah, what we talked about early on, the physical
action.
Staying physical helps becauseI think being physical it's a
surge of chemicals in your body.
You're getting all thesehormones released and it makes
you feel empowered and confident.
So being physically active ishelpful, I don't care what age
or stage of life you're in.
It helps you move forward.
But staying in action, takingbold steps or daring steps or
(34:26):
sometimes even just baby steps,it's still forward progress.
We can't always take massiveaction where we just turn our
life around overnight.
Sometimes it's just baby stepsand staying in action keeps you
moving forward.
And you have to be willing totry.
A lot of times we get so scaredand so intimidated and such a
bad mood and all the world ispiled on against us.
You still have to be willing totry.
(34:47):
A lot of times we get so scaredand so intimidated and such a
bad mood and all the world ispiled on against us.
You still have to be willing tojust take a step and just
putting one foot forward infront of the other sometimes is
your best and that's all you'vegot that day.
So that's what I do, Becauseone day's best looks different
than another day's best.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Some days you're making big strides and other
days you're just baby stuffingit and that's perfectly okay.
Yeah, I like the saying failforward, yeah, just try it messy
, just keep moving forward, likeyou're saying one foot in front
of the other.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
I know, back when I was going through my cancer
stuff 10 years ago and in thefew years following somebody
would say my in fact my momshe's you're gonna bounce out of
this, you're gonna bounce outof this, you're gonna bounce
back.
And I just couldn't accept that.
I didn't bounce, I just landedon rock bottom and I was so
emotionally hurt there was nobouncing I just splatted down
(35:38):
there and the more I thoughtabout it I was like I can't
bounce back.
I'm never going to be able tobounce back to this person who
didn't have cancer.
This is something that haschanged me and I knew I couldn't
bounce back.
But I had to bounce forward andit's the same concept as
failing forward.
Whatever you're at, you canbounce forward or in a different
(35:58):
direction.
You can fail forward or fail ina different direction, but
movement is still movement andmovement is healthy.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Yeah, movement is magic.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Yeah for sure, Okay.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
The last question is what is your favorite book or
resource that changed how youthink?
Speaker 2 (36:13):
I like books.
I would say the most impactfulone was Eckhart Tolle's the
Power of Now.
Have you read that one bychance?
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Yeah, it's such a good one.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Yeah, that one.
It just opened my mind broaderthan I ever thought possible.
It changed how I looked at theworld.
It changed how I look at myself, it changed how I look at other
people, and so that book hasprobably been the most
life-changing book for me thePower of Now by Eckhart Tolle.
But I do every day I read.
It's called the Daily Stoic byRyan Holiday and it's just one
(36:49):
page a day and it really groundsme.
It's rooted in wisdom from theStoics and it's not heavy
reading, it's just one littlelesson a day and that just
really keeps me grounded.
So that's not life altering,but it is a daily practice that
is really helpful.
Who was the guy's name, ryan?
Who Ryan Holiday?
I think it's called the DailyStoic.
(37:10):
I'm pretty sure that's it.
What does he talk about?
It's not him, he has authored it, but what it is.
He has compiled a lesson perday from the Stoics Aristotle,
seneca and so he has a lessonper day where he puts like a
quote from them in it and thenhe expands on it and puts his
(37:31):
own words into everyday meaning,what he deciphers what this
means and then relates it toeveryday life.
So it's like a mini life lessonevery day.
It's just one page a day.
It's not a big deal.
You can sit and do it in acouple of minutes and I do it
every day.
It just keeps me centered.
Does he email that to you?
No, it's a book.
You can order it from Amazon orwherever.
(37:51):
Oh, it's a book.
Okay, yeah, it's a book.
It's called the Daily Stoic andthe cover I have a hard cover.
I think it's like beige orlight tan whitish, but it's
really good it is.
It's 366 lessons and you do one.
It's calendared.
So today I'm doing May whatever.
(38:11):
Today is May 29th, and so youstart wherever you are in the
year when you get it and just goforward.
It's a cool book.
Check it out.
Yeah, thank you for sharingthat.
Yeah, absolutely, that is sogood.
Okay.
So back to Eckhart Tolle.
I so back to Eckhart Tolle.
I do want to read his.
Is it the New Earth?
His other book, the one thatfollows the Power of Now, have
you read that one?
I think it's called the NewEarth.
I haven't.
No, I have it.
(38:32):
I just haven't read it yet.
But that's.
I want to sit and reallydedicate some time to it because
I feel like it's going to bejust as impactful as the first,
so I want to have plenty ofmental space to process it all.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Yeah, for sure.
Oh, that's so great.
Okay, I have enjoyed thisconversation so much, pam.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Me too.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Can you please share where and how listeners can
connect with you?
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Yeah, absolutely.
I have the no Knockouts podcast.
It's on Apple, Spotify,iHeartRadio wherever you listen
to podcasts and you can find meon Instagram and Facebook at no
Knockouts.
You can search me up there.
And I also have a website andit's no knockoutscom where I
offer coaching and I have somefreebies out there.
But if you want to connect withme, follow me on Instagram or
Facebook and message me there.
Fantastic, All right, Nikki,this has been great Thanks.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Oh, thank you so much .
Thanks so much for listening tothe Confidence Shortcut.
I hope today's episode wokesomething up in you, reminding
you that your dream matters andyou can start now.
If this sparked something,share it with a friend who needs
it too.
And don't forget to follow meon Instagram at Nikki Sterner
and join our Facebook communityat the Confidence Shortcut.
Ready to take the next step?
(39:41):
Check out my free guide, theConfidence Kickstart.
Ready to take the next step?
Check out my free guide, theConfidence Kickstart, linked in
the show notes.
Keep showing up, keep takingaction and remember the shortcut
to confidence is courage.
Welcome to the Confidence Shortcut, the podcast
for ambitious creatives andentrepreneurs who are ready to
stop overthinking, take boldaction and finally step into the
life they've been dreamingabout.
I'm your host, nikki Sternermom, actor, comedian and
producer.
After years of playing smalland waiting to feel ready, I
went on a courage quest andfound a shortcut to confidence.
(00:21):
Each week, I'll bring you realstories, simple steps and
conversations with experts inmindset courage and confidence,
plus heart-to-hearts with fellowcreatives who are turning their
dreams into reality.
It's time to get unstuck andstart showing up.
Let's dive in.
Welcome to the ConfidenceShortcut.
I'm your host, nikki Sterner.
(00:41):
Today's guest is Pam Sandrock, anative Texan wife, mom of two
college boys and the inspiringvoice behind the no Knockouts
podcast.
After two decades as a stay athome mom and navigating a
serious health scare, pamreinvented herself as a
purpose-driven life coach,helping midlife women shift from
survival mode into thriving.
(01:03):
She's all about deepconversations, personal
alignment and turning pain intopower.
Whether she's jogging outdoors,coaching clients or baking
something sweet, pam iscommitted to living well, not
just being alive, and guidingothers to do the same.
Please welcome to the show, pamSandrock.
Hello, hi, thanks for having me.
(01:24):
Nikki, it's so nice to have youhere today.
I'm so excited to hear aboutyour story and to go into a
little bit about what you wentthrough, some of the challenges
that you had.
I want to start with whatyou're super passionate about
right now and just tell us whatyou're doing and who you are.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Wow.
Okay, first, I just want tohonor you for starting your
podcast, because I think it'sgoing to be a great service to
women in the world that we livein right now, and I just want to
honor your efforts that you'reputting towards that.
So good job.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Thank you, and you too, yeah, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
That is where my efforts are right now is.
I launched my own podcast a fewweeks back and it is my little
mini baby right now.
It's what I'm putting towards alot of effort towards and
trying to develop and grow notonly the podcast but me in the
process.
So it's a work in progress andI'm having a lot of fun doing it
(02:18):
.
My podcast is called noKnockouts and it goes alongside
my coaching business, which isalso no Knockouts, which is
rooted in resilience, intentionand really emotional
intelligence.
I think a lot of times people,especially our age, as we get to
(02:38):
the middle part of our life, wedon't even know what we want.
We say I don't know what I want.
When somebody asks you and Ihelp people dive into that
figure out what they want, setan aim, let them figure out
where they're going to go inlife, expect challenges along
the way, learn how to beresilient through whatever life
throws at you and be emotionallymature as we encounter hardship
(03:03):
and struggle along the way.
So that's a summary.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
What types of questions do you ask people that
you work with?
Because I know a lot of women,like you said, do wonder.
Well, I don't really know.
I've spent so many yearshelping others, raising kids,
focusing on other things, that Idon't really even know what I
want.
So how do you hold space forthem?
What do you ask them?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, obviously it's situational, but I have to
really give somebody time toquiet down, because a lot of
times we have these candidanswers that we spit out on the
outside but that's our braintalking and we know from our
heart and we know from our souland that's not something you can
access like in the moment.
And we have to quiet down andreally find where our truth lies
inside of us.
(03:44):
And some of that is justlistening to our body and
listening to our basically yourintuition and your gut.
And so I go through a processwith that.
But I ask people questions likeif you had the ideal day, what
would your day look like?
Where would you go?
Who would be there with you?
Would you be alone or would youactually have someone with you?
(04:05):
And what would you be doing?
And we don't think that becausewe're so caught up in the
day-to-day.
We're going to work, we'regetting the laundry done, we're
handling the yard work, we'retaking the kids to the doctor or
taking them to college.
Whatever stage of life you'rein, or if you're midlife, you
may be handling your own parents.
You're stage of life you're in,or if you're midlife, you may
(04:27):
be handling your own parents.
You're stuck in that middleground and so it's hard to see
through that.
So we have to quiet the noise,all the drama in our head, and
figure out what does your I-daydeal look like?
Is it loud or is it quiet?
And then we start to decipherfrom there.
But if you ever get to thispoint where you're yourself and
you want to decipher throughthat, you say what do I want?
(04:48):
And then go what do I reallywant?
Because that means somethingdifferent than what I want.
And then if you take it downfurther and you say no, what do
I really really, really want?
Because that takes it just alittle bit deeper.
And something that works, ispretty effective, is saying if
(05:12):
you didn't say it out loud, whatwould you want?
Because your insights reallyknow.
And another version of that isif you don't know, what would
God say?
The answer is Because God knowswhat you want.
You can't keep it a secret.
A lot of times we squash ourwants because of society, or we
(05:35):
don't want to seem greedy, or weshould be happy already, but
we're not, and so we don't wantto come across as greedy or
needy or demanding, and so wedon't want to be honest on the
outside, but on the inside wereally do know what we want.
You just have to access it.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
I love that you find honesty on the inside.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Yeah, it's in the depths.
It's not on the surface, it'sin the depths that's so good.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Will you tell us a little bit about maybe a low
point and what you went throughthe most challenging time?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
yeah, 10 years ago, 2015, I was 37 years old and I
was diagnosed with breast cancer.
I found the lump myself andwent through that very scary
time of going to doctorsfiguring it out and, needless to
say, it knocked me off myrocker.
I was devastated by it.
I couldn't justify why I got itand I mentally and emotionally
(06:36):
needed to blame something,because I didn't understand.
I was only 37.
I was in my own mind.
I was healthy, I didn't drink,I didn't smoke, I never healthy,
I didn't drink, I didn't smoke,I never had.
I did genetic testing and allmy genetic tests came back as
negative or clean.
I didn't have a genetic problemand I just didn't understand
and I couldn't find someone orsomething to blame it on, and
(07:00):
that really made me spiral to mydepths.
I felt so personally attacked,like it wasn't like this thing
that just happened.
It was personal, and I wasashamed and devastated and I
couldn't learn from it because Icouldn't figure out what I did
wrong, to make it better, toprevent it again or to tell
somebody else, and so I was inemotional turmoil for quite some
(07:21):
time.
So I was in emotional turmoilfor quite some time, trying to
make peace with that and goingthrough that process, going
through surgeries or anythinglike that, it didn't make it
better, it just it took thecancer away but it didn't cure
my mind, it didn't heal my soul.
(07:42):
I was so bruised, I was sodamaged and I had to somehow
make peace with that.
And really that was 10 yearsago.
But those were some of the earlyseeds of why no knockouts exist
today.
You know, those were puretrials for me and I had to work
through them and because of that, because I was forced to do
(08:04):
that, I learned so much and Idon't want those efforts and
those lessons to be wasted.
So I use that pain I had topropel myself forward and to
help others through whateverthey're going through, whether
it be a big pain or a littlepain or just a concern or just a
striving for betterment.
But I just don't want to wasteany lesson I got out of that.
(08:29):
So I've dedicated myself tohelping others who want help.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
I love that.
What does that look like?
Speaker 2 (08:37):
When I was going through it.
It was messy.
It was messy, I mean.
I cried.
I put on a pretty face on theoutside, I wasn't very vocal
about it.
Hardly anybody knew what I wasgoing through.
I kept it very secret because Ifight battles internally.
I fight battles from the insideout and I didn't feel like I
needed distractions from others.
(08:59):
So I kept a lot of it to myself.
But a lot of times I would.
I felt like a bubbling cauldron.
I felt I had thoughts andemotions that were just bubbling
out at the surface and I didn'tknow what to do with them.
So a lot of times I would run toa journal and I would write
things down.
It wasn't a formal processwhere I would sit down every day
at a certain time and askmyself questions.
(09:21):
It was.
I ran to my journal when I hadto get something out of my head
because my brain and my mind wasnoisy.
It was dramatic and I couldn'tprocess it all.
It was too much for me at thatpoint of life in life, because I
was also a stay-at-home mom,taking care of two young kids at
that time, and I didn't want todetract from my real job, which
(09:44):
was being a mom because I wasbattling cancer and I would run
to my journal and get things outof my head and those weren't
even complete sentences,sometimes they were just
thoughts that I would just jotdown just to get it out, and I
would sit in quiet and pray.
I would pray.
I referred to Romans 5.3.
(10:05):
Romans 5.3 says something alongthe lines of we all suffer, but
in our suffering we createendurance, and endurance creates
character and character bringshope.
And so I would sit and readthat verse over and over.
I prayed in silence to God andsaid just help me get through
this.
I'd say Jesus, hold my hand asI walk into any doctor's
(10:27):
appointment.
I would say, jesus, just holdmy hand.
And so I was silently trying tostay grounded and keep my feet
on the ground.
I listened to music a lot.
I created a playlist.
I called it Christian Country.
I love country music and I justcreated a playlist of soft,
(10:48):
easy listening Christian countrysongs and I played that all the
time.
I played it as I cooked, Iplayed it as I got dressed in
the morning, I played it anytimein my headphones when I went
for a walk or a jog, and that,just that, helped me a lot, but
the walking and the jogging.
I was already active, but Ireally dove into being physical.
I really dove into running more.
(11:10):
I really made a commitment tolive long and strong.
That's been my mantra sincewhat I call my cancer time.
But I really made a commitmentto live long and live strong,
and that means emotionally,physically, spiritually, in
every way I can come up with.
I just want to do it well, andso I would run and stay
(11:32):
physically fit and get out of myhead, get out of my body, and
that was really helpful.
You're an athlete as well right, nikki?
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah, I do.
I do the same thing.
I love getting in my body.
It helps me to get out of myhead.
Something about the physicalstrength just transfers into my
mental strength and overall allof it, my whole persona.
I feel like I can do anythingwhen I've pushed myself in the
gym and it's amazing because Ido believe in the habits that
you create just can be sopowerful.
(12:03):
I didn't realize that you couldchange your body in your
forties so much with a littlebit of progressive overload or
putting yourself in anuncomfortable position.
I never used to hold things orlike really feel that
uncomfortable place when you'relifting weight.
Maybe it's like pushing yourselfrunning to the next level.
But I think when you do that inthat uncomfortable place, you
(12:26):
expand your growth so much toplaces that you never thought
possible, and so I do think thatyour physical is so attached to
your mental and your spiritual,like you're saying here.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah, it's mind over body really, because when we
tire out physically, you canstill keep going.
We know this.
You just have to push yourself,yeah, and so it.
The mind and the body reallyare partners.
And so when we get tired anddon't want to push ourselves in
the gym or with the weights orthe run, you keep going because
(12:58):
you're just building your ownresilience is what you're doing.
You're making yourself strongerfor whatever comes next, and so
that's huge, huge.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
That's huge to me is staying physically fit if you've
been living with chronicsymptoms like pain, brain fog,
sensitivity to smells, light orsound, it might not just be your
body, it could be your brain,stuck in a survival loop.
Dnrs stands for dynamic neuralretraining.
It's a science-backed programthat helps rewire the limbic
(13:28):
system, the part of the brainresponsible for fear, fight or
flight and overreaction toeveryday things.
It changed everything for me,helping me heal and return to
the creative life I love.
If this speaks to you, clickthe link in the caption.
It might be the answer you'relooking for.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
But also at that time , I think, going through that
process of I'd take my kids toschool and I'd come home and I'd
pout and I'd feel sorry formyself and I would have to make
doctor's appointments or have todo whatever you have to do
through this process I reallylearned to say no.
I really learned what wasimportant to say yes to and I
(14:07):
really learned how to say no.
Before this, I was so involvedat my kid's school.
I was on the PTO, I waschairman of this.
I volunteered for anything thatcame up.
Any email or phone call or signup that came in, I was on it.
And with this one I couldn't doit because I was at doctor's
(14:27):
appointments or recovering fromsome surgery, but I also didn't
want to do so much of it.
I still wanted to, but I wasable to decipher yes, this is in
alignment with who I want to beand no, this isn't.
I'm only doing it out ofobligation and obligation
doesn't feel good.
Obligation leads to resentmentand I didn't want any part of
(14:53):
that.
I wanted to clean up every areaof my life that didn't feel
good and in no way was I goingto be obligated to things that
were going to lead me to feelingbitter or resentment, and so
that has helped me from thentill now and will continue.
I know how to say no.
I don't have to do things outof obligation.
I do them because I want to,and that is a huge thing that I
(15:14):
think anybody can learn from you.
Do not have to do all thethings.
Pick and choose what's rightfor you.
That's been huge.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
There's a lot of power in using your time how you
want to, versus just giving itaway to anybody who wants it.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Well, and I think when we're younger you don't
really know what you don't know.
You try all the things, youthink you're supposed to do
these things, but over time yourealize there's no supposed to.
I'm an adult and I can choosewhat I want to do, and society
and culture and maybe ourupbringing, makes us feel like
(15:52):
we have to do certain things.
But in reality we're grownadults.
We don't have to do anything.
We can do whatever we want todo.
I mean within reason, of course,right, the clarity I got from
having to say no or getting tosay no was extremely powerful.
And in my mind, when I'd get anemail that came in and said,
hey, we need volunteers for thiswhere I normally would have
(16:14):
said yes, I would answerpolitely and say no, but in my
mind I was saying I'm sorry, Ican't, I have to go fight cancer
, and that was so much moreimportant.
I'm sorry, I can't, I have togo fight cancer, and that was so
much more important.
And fighting cancer becamereally a path to me, figuring it
out, figuring out who I was.
It became a path to finding mypurest, most authentic self and
(16:37):
realizing what was important tome and what was not, which I
think we all go through at sometime.
I was just forced into it at acertain time in life.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
So what did you let go of?
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Obligation.
Anything specific I I said no toa lot of things at school.
I got off.
I didn't bring snacks to everyevent.
I didn't have to head them uplike I once thought I would.
I just wanted to be aparticipant, not the leader of
everything.
Sometimes I just wanted to showup with the paper plates, not
organize the entire event, andso it allowed me to pull back
(17:13):
and do just what I wanted to donot what I felt like I had to do
, because, as a stay at home mom, I thought I had all this time
and I should be leading thesethings.
That's not true.
I still have a life.
I still have things I want todo for me and for my husband and
his business, and so on and soforth, and so I didn't feel the
obligation to do some of that.
But even within my own family,like within my own family of
(17:35):
origin or my husband's family,when they wanted us to do
something, I learned to say Idon't really want to do that
this weekend, or I don't reallywant to go out to eat this time,
I want to stay home tonight, orwhatever it is.
It just brought clarity to theday-to-day moments, and that was
helpful.
It still is.
It still is.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
How do you stay organized?
Do you have a time in themorning where you look at your
calendar?
What do you do for that?
Speaker 2 (18:01):
with everything.
I'm super organized.
I laugh because my husbandwould laugh at me.
I'm super organized, not super.
I don't want to say that I'mpretty organized.
I have a calendar on the sideof my fridge that I print out
every month and keeps us all ontrack.
I have my Google email, myGoogle calendar online.
I don't like clutter in my life, so my public space, my spaces
(18:27):
behind closets most of them arevery organized and clutter-free.
So having a clear, clutter-freespace allows me to have a clear
, clutter-free mind and itallows me to make decisions
faster and more accurately.
The things around me theclutter, the things when they're
(18:47):
out of place or I don't needthat, I don't use it, I get rid
of it because it's distractingto me.
So is that a foreign concept?
I don't think so.
It's just something that's beenan important part of my life.
I don't like to accumulate alot of things because things
don't mean a darn thing, andthat's something cancer taught
(19:09):
me.
Things don't mean a thing, andso I have what I need, but I
don't like to keep a lot ofextra.
I just feel weighted down byextra things and I don't like
distractions, and clutter is adistraction to me.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Yeah, it totally is, and, like you said, it's heavy.
I wish I was better, but myhusband is really good at
organizing things and I tend toaccumulate papers and piles, and
so that's why I was asking ifyou have a system for it.
I'm the opposite.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I get rid of things.
I don't do it.
I do it regularly, but not on aschedule.
So, like at the end of theschool year, we would go through
everybody's backpack andeverything we accumulated
throughout the year and chunkwhat we wanted and then keep the
rest.
And if it was a keep, we weregoing to organize it in an
organized fashion, not justleave it in a box.
What does that mean?
We were going to organize it inan organized fashion, not just
leave it in a box.
What does that mean?
Well, from the kids' standpoint, I would take all of their
(20:03):
whatever math tests they wantedto keep and we'd have a math
folder and we'd have an Englishfolder or whatever it was.
And then it is in a like asterilite bin, like a plastic
bin, labeled for that schoolyear.
And as time went on, we keptless, but so multiple school
years might be in the same bin.
But my closet is color coded.
My closet is all the blueshirts are together, all the red
(20:26):
shirts are together, all thewhite and the long sleeves are
separate from short sleeves.
I just sometimes getting stuckin indecision really drains
energy, not just mine butanybody's.
When we get stuck in indecision, we lose our power, and so I
just like to make decisionmaking easy, and that's staying
organized is a way for me to dothat.
So you don't have piles is whatyou're saying?
(20:48):
I do, everybody does, but not alot, and if they're a pile,
they're mostly organized Like.
I have a pile outside of thisroom right now.
One of my kids came home fromcollege and I don't know where
to put it all yet, because someof it I'm not sure if it's going
to go back with him to hisapartment next fall or if it's
going to get donated.
(21:10):
So I need to go, we need to gothrough that pile.
So I have piles, just not a tonof them, and they don't last
very long.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
What about pictures?
Do you organize your pictures?
Yes, how do you do?
Speaker 2 (21:22):
that my pictures go off my phone onto my computer by
date, by month in a year.
So I have a 2025 folder andthen within it I have a January
folder, a February folder.
So they're organized by monthwithin the year on the computer,
and videos too in there Videosas well.
(21:43):
But the videos I'll put intheir own video folder so
they're separate from thepictures.
That way if I need to run to it, if I know there's a video, I
don't have to sort through themall, just go to the video, month
and year.
For that I used to.
I haven't done it in a fewyears.
Every summer I'd create ashutterfly photo book and put
all of our summer pictures in itand that was like our memory
(22:03):
book for the summer, and I'm alittle behind on that.
But as our kids get older mykids are college age we took
less pictures.
You didn't take a picture ofthem every time they jumped in
the swimming pool.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
When they're 17, like they do when they're six.
Do they still let you takepictures when they're 17, like
they do when they're six.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Do they still let you take pictures?
Yes and no.
Sometimes I get the side eye orthe frown, but they're used to
me so they know they have tocomply.
I'm going to persist, so theymay as well comply sooner rather
than later.
They can still give me the sideeye, but I'm still going to do
it.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
I love that Same.
So I have a daughter in college.
She's going to be a junior nextyear, and then one that just
graduated high school, so she'llalso be in college next year,
and then our son is going to bea junior in high school.
So yeah, they're all okay, momget it over with.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah.
So my older son, who's 20,almost 21, he's come back.
He didn't like it for a whilebut now he understands.
I think with him off at collegefor a while, he appreciates
having some of those memoriesand some of those pictures and
so he's reverting back to.
This is a cool thing To where,as my 19 year old not so much he
thinks it's pretty stupid rightabout now.
(23:09):
But too bad, that's fun.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Yeah, confidence doesn't come first.
Action and habits do.
That's why I created theConfidence Kickstart Morning
Routine a 15-minute free guideto help you build habits that
actually work.
You'll get powerful journalprompts, a guided audio
meditation and my three-partconfidence shortcut system,
mindset Path and Action.
It's the exact routine I use toget up on stage and speak up.
(23:36):
No more shrinking orsecond-guessing the link's in
the caption.
Grab it now and build theconfidence to move forward every
single day.
Okay, I wanted to get to ourconfidence quickfire round,
which is the five questions thatwe ask at the end of every
conversation to get your pointof view on them All righty.
So the first one is can youplease define confidence and
(24:00):
what that is to you?
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Let's see here.
I would say confidence is acertainty that you can do
something or a certainty thatsomeone can do something.
It's feeling confident, it'sfeeling certain.
But the thing is you're notalways going to feel that.
You know.
Any beginner of anythingdoesn't have certainty nor
confidence, so you have topersist whether you have that
(24:23):
feeling or not.
Confidence comes from doing thethings and gaining skills and
gaining ability.
You're gaining competencethrough experience, which makes
you confident.
So it's really a loop.
But to me, confidence is acertainty that you can do
something.
It's feeling certain inyourself before you progress.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
I love that.
Yeah, you're right.
It's not like you have itbefore you do the thing.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
No it's a skill you build.
It's a skill you build.
You don't start out confident.
You're not born confident.
You don't start out learninghow to walk.
It's something you build.
And confident you don't startout learning how to walk.
It's something you build.
And thank goodness right,because you can always get
better, and so you have to dothings to gain your competence,
which grow your confidence, andthen you become certain.
(25:10):
But you're never going toalways be fully confident or
fully certain, because newexperiences and new challenges
are always going to come up.
You're always going to be abeginner at something, and so
you have to embrace thebeginning, knowing very little,
but you're just going to growmore and grow through it and get
better and more confident.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
And that ties into you talk a lot about resilience,
right, I do.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
I do, rooted in resilience, because I think a
lot of people, I'll say, live inlike a fairy tale world.
They think they shouldn't haveany struggle or they should have
less struggle.
But everybody struggles.
I don't care what point in lifeyou're at, you're going to have
some hardship or struggle comeyour way, and so just accepting
(25:52):
that you're going to havestruggle and accepting it as
part of life is really the firststep in being resilient.
So when it happens, it's not oh, why me I'm going to play the
victim.
It's oh, I guess it's just myturn.
It's my turn to have a hardshiptoday or tomorrow or week or
month or however long it lasts.
It's just my turn and I'm goingto bounce back, or I'm going to
bounce forward and I'm going tocome out of this one way or
(26:15):
another.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
I love that perspective on it, just
expecting it one way or another.
I love that perspective on itjust expecting it.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Yeah, you can't predict what's going to happen.
Something is going toeventually be hard for you and
it's going to be challenging,whether it be your Wi-Fi go out
or your cell phone breaks, oryou go through a career change
or your loss of a loved one.
It's going to happen andhardship we're not immune to it.
It's part of life, and so, justwhen it happens, instead of it
(26:43):
being so dramatic and sodevastating, just be like huh, I
guess it's my turn Now.
I got to deal with it and thenI'll move forward.
So, it just makes it easy.
Just allow hardship to be easyUnderstanding.
That's easier said than done,but once you can realize you're
not alone in hardship andstruggle, you're already
(27:05):
starting off better.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
So that's a great mindset trick is just saying oh,
it's my turn.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
It's my turn.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Yeah, letting yourself know.
Oh, everybody goes through this, it's just my turn.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
I love that, that's right, that's right, and
everybody's hardship isdifferent.
So you're like, oh, this iswhat I got today, this is the
card I drew, or this is theshort straw for today, or
whatever's handed your way.
It's just huh interesting Ifyou meet it with curiosity
instead of like resisting andpushing it away.
If you just let it in and becurious about it and be like, oh
(27:36):
, it's my turn.
It really does make it easierbecause you don't create all the
drama in your brain around it.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Yeah, curiosity versus resistance.
I love that.
Yeah, that's a good one.
I like that.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Okay, yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
The second question is what's one bold move you made
before you felt ready?
Speaker 2 (27:54):
I got a double mastectomy.
I don't think you're ever goingto be ready to amputate part of
your body.
I didn't have to do that.
It was a choice for me.
I had other options, but Ichose to do that because it was
the most aggressive physicalthing I could do regarding my
cancer.
That, I thought, helped me themost in the long run.
(28:14):
And I don't know that you cansay, hey, today's the day, I
want to have a major surgery,but I was confident in my
decision because I knew, out ofall the options that were there,
that was the best case scenarioin my opinion.
So that's probably the boldestthing I've ever done is to make
that decision.
Even though I didn't have to doit, I chose to do that and
(28:35):
that's empowering.
When you choose your outcome asopposed to it being forced on
you.
Choosing bold, choosing to bedaring that's powerful.
Choice is powerful.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Do you feel like that's given you momentum, that
choice?
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Massive momentum.
Doing that, making thatdecision, making that choice.
Yes, I got to choose and Ichose what was best for me.
In the long run, I left.
I didn't leave a lot on thetable.
I was an athlete always growingup.
I played tons of sports and Iwas a go big or go home kind of
girl go big or go home kind ofplayer and this was my go big or
(29:11):
go home.
This was my go big.
I'm going all in, I want it alloff and then I want to live my
life, and so knowing that I canmake that decision has empowered
me to make every other decisioneasy or easier.
There are plenty of things thataren't easy, but it really
keeps it in a perspective.
If I can do that, I can makeother decisions.
(29:32):
It really keeps it in aperspective.
If I can do that, I can makeother decisions.
I can empower myself to do lotsof things that are easier than
that.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
It does it gives me power and perspective.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
I'm curious which sports you did.
Okay, so I grew up in a smalltown so you got to play anything
, right.
There wasn't this whole onesport thing.
So I played volleyball in thefall, which I loved.
Volleyball is my favorite.
I did not play in the winter.
I took basketball season offand then in the spring I did
(30:06):
track, golf ball andpowerlifting.
I played all three sports.
But then I played tennis injunior high, which I didn't play
in high school because Icouldn't fit it in.
It was one more spring sportthat couldn't work.
But I still love tennis too andI just picked up pickleball,
like a week or two ago, and I'mloving it, but I like volleyball
.
I love volleyball andpowerlifting has just made has
(30:27):
been a passion just because itkeeps me strong.
In no way am I a powerlifternow, but I still lift weights
just to stay healthy.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Do you play sports?
Yeah, I grew up in a small townas well, like 3000 people and
yeah, I did basketball in thefall, which was my favorite, and
then I did volleyball for myfirst three years of high school
and then I did boys basketballcheerleading my senior year
because we got to do danceroutines for halftimes and stuff
like that, which I love dancingas well.
I did that in college danceteam and then I did track, track
(30:58):
and field.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
So did you do long distance track or short distance
.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
What did you do?
I was not a sprinter, I didlong distance.
Yeah, what about you?
Speaker 2 (31:06):
I was a sprinter.
The longest I did was the 400.
The longest.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
I did was the 400.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Yeah, you were fast.
Huh, yeah, that was fun stuff.
Oh, wow, it was a 400.
Yeah, fast, huh, yeah, that wasfun stuff.
Now, wouldn't it be funny to gosprint now, like that's
something I don't do anymore?
It would be funny.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Yeah, I don't know if it would be funny.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Yeah, it wouldn't be fun, but it'd be funny, funny,
haha, look at that.
No cameras allowed, that'sright.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Okay, what's your next question?
Okay, so how do you quiet yourinner critic?
Oh, I get quiet.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
I get quiet and I root back down to what's
important to me in my soul.
So I go down to my truth andrealize tomorrow is not promised
.
So, whatever is judging me inmy head or I'm fearful about, I
dare myself to do whatever Ihave to do.
Because why not?
(31:58):
Because tomorrow's not promised.
Who knows what tomorrow brings?
So just do it now.
What are you waiting for?
So when I get fearful or I'mafraid of judgment or afraid of
not being liked, I just go.
Who cares?
We're all going to die, just doit and have fun.
And if fear wants to still bethere, I just go.
Who cares?
We're all going to die, just doit and have fun.
And if fear wants to still bethere, I just bring it along
(32:18):
with me.
I just either ignore fear orsay come along, anyway, I'm
going for the ride, I'm notgoing to not live just because
I'm afraid.
So sometimes I quiet the innercritic to find who I am, but
other times I just let it comealong with me and be like I'm
doing this anyway.
I just become rebellious to it,become daring or bold, like we
were talking about earlier.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
I love that.
I don't know if it will ever goaway.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
No, I think it's something we live with.
I think it's something we livewith.
I think back to my grandmother.
I still have one grandmotheralive, but one of my other one
that passed away in 2019, shecared every day.
She got dressed, full makeup,pretty clothes.
She was in her 80s, stillmaking herself presentable
because I don't know why, butshe always cared about how she
(33:09):
looked.
I never thought to ask her atthat time why do you do this?
Are you afraid of judgment?
Was it that?
I don't know.
It was a different time of life, we grew up in different times
of life, but I don't think thatfear of criticism or comparison
or judgment ever goes away.
I think we live with it.
It's just dealing with it, andas we grow, as we get older, I
(33:32):
think we care less about it.
I know I do.
I care less, much less aboutwhat somebody thinks of me now
than I did say when I was 15.
Speaker 1 (33:40):
We're just different people, we're just different
people.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
If I want to be afraid, just come along with me,
because I'm probably going todo it anyway.
So at that point I'm justrebelling against it, saying you
can be there, but I'm stillmoving forward.
Okay, what's?
Speaker 1 (33:55):
one habit that's helped you build real confidence
Action.
Like you're just talking aboutright.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Yeah, what we talked about early on, the physical
action.
Staying physical helps becauseI think being physical it's a
surge of chemicals in your body.
You're getting all thesehormones released and it makes
you feel empowered and confident.
So being physically active ishelpful, I don't care what age
or stage of life you're in.
It helps you move forward.
But staying in action, takingbold steps or daring steps or
(34:26):
sometimes even just baby steps,it's still forward progress.
We can't always take massiveaction where we just turn our
life around overnight.
Sometimes it's just baby stepsand staying in action keeps you
moving forward.
And you have to be willing totry.
A lot of times we get so scaredand so intimidated and such a
bad mood and all the world ispiled on against us.
You still have to be willing totry.
(34:47):
A lot of times we get so scaredand so intimidated and such a
bad mood and all the world ispiled on against us.
You still have to be willing tojust take a step and just
putting one foot forward infront of the other sometimes is
your best and that's all you'vegot that day.
So that's what I do, Becauseone day's best looks different
than another day's best.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Some days you're making big strides and other
days you're just baby stuffingit and that's perfectly okay.
Yeah, I like the saying failforward, yeah, just try it messy
, just keep moving forward, likeyou're saying one foot in front
of the other.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
I know, back when I was going through my cancer
stuff 10 years ago and in thefew years following somebody
would say my in fact my momshe's you're gonna bounce out of
this, you're gonna bounce outof this, you're gonna bounce
back.
And I just couldn't accept that.
I didn't bounce, I just landedon rock bottom and I was so
emotionally hurt there was nobouncing I just splatted down
(35:38):
there and the more I thoughtabout it I was like I can't
bounce back.
I'm never going to be able tobounce back to this person who
didn't have cancer.
This is something that haschanged me and I knew I couldn't
bounce back.
But I had to bounce forward andit's the same concept as
failing forward.
Whatever you're at, you canbounce forward or in a different
(35:58):
direction.
You can fail forward or fail ina different direction, but
movement is still movement andmovement is healthy.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Yeah, movement is magic.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Yeah for sure, Okay.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
The last question is what is your favorite book or
resource that changed how youthink?
Speaker 2 (36:13):
I like books.
I would say the most impactfulone was Eckhart Tolle's the
Power of Now.
Have you read that one bychance?
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Yeah, it's such a good one.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Yeah, that one.
It just opened my mind broaderthan I ever thought possible.
It changed how I looked at theworld.
It changed how I look at myself, it changed how I look at other
people, and so that book hasprobably been the most
life-changing book for me thePower of Now by Eckhart Tolle.
But I do every day I read.
It's called the Daily Stoic byRyan Holiday and it's just one
(36:49):
page a day and it really groundsme.
It's rooted in wisdom from theStoics and it's not heavy
reading, it's just one littlelesson a day and that just
really keeps me grounded.
So that's not life altering,but it is a daily practice that
is really helpful.
Who was the guy's name, ryan?
Who Ryan Holiday?
I think it's called the DailyStoic.
(37:10):
I'm pretty sure that's it.
What does he talk about?
It's not him, he has authored it, but what it is.
He has compiled a lesson perday from the Stoics Aristotle,
seneca and so he has a lessonper day where he puts like a
quote from them in it and thenhe expands on it and puts his
(37:31):
own words into everyday meaning,what he deciphers what this
means and then relates it toeveryday life.
So it's like a mini life lessonevery day.
It's just one page a day.
It's not a big deal.
You can sit and do it in acouple of minutes and I do it
every day.
It just keeps me centered.
Does he email that to you?
No, it's a book.
You can order it from Amazon orwherever.
(37:51):
Oh, it's a book.
Okay, yeah, it's a book.
It's called the Daily Stoic andthe cover I have a hard cover.
I think it's like beige orlight tan whitish, but it's
really good it is.
It's 366 lessons and you do one.
It's calendared.
So today I'm doing May whatever.
(38:11):
Today is May 29th, and so youstart wherever you are in the
year when you get it and just goforward.
It's a cool book.
Check it out.
Yeah, thank you for sharingthat.
Yeah, absolutely, that is sogood.
Okay.
So back to Eckhart Tolle.
I so back to Eckhart Tolle.
I do want to read his.
Is it the New Earth?
His other book, the one thatfollows the Power of Now, have
you read that one?
I think it's called the NewEarth.
I haven't.
No, I have it.
(38:32):
I just haven't read it yet.
But that's.
I want to sit and reallydedicate some time to it because
I feel like it's going to bejust as impactful as the first,
so I want to have plenty ofmental space to process it all.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Yeah, for sure.
Oh, that's so great.
Okay, I have enjoyed thisconversation so much, pam.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Me too.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Can you please share where and how listeners can
connect with you?
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Yeah, absolutely.
I have the no Knockouts podcast.
It's on Apple, Spotify,iHeartRadio wherever you listen
to podcasts and you can find meon Instagram and Facebook at no
Knockouts.
You can search me up there.
And I also have a website andit's no knockoutscom where I
offer coaching and I have somefreebies out there.
But if you want to connect withme, follow me on Instagram or
Facebook and message me there.
Fantastic, All right, Nikki,this has been great Thanks.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Oh, thank you so much .
Thanks so much for listening tothe Confidence Shortcut.
I hope today's episode wokesomething up in you, reminding
you that your dream matters andyou can start now.
If this sparked something,share it with a friend who needs
it too.
And don't forget to follow meon Instagram at Nikki Sterner
and join our Facebook communityat the Confidence Shortcut.
Ready to take the next step?
(39:41):
Check out my free guide, theConfidence Kickstart.
Ready to take the next step?
Check out my free guide, theConfidence Kickstart, linked in
the show notes.
Keep showing up, keep takingaction and remember the shortcut
to confidence is courage.
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