June 11, 2025 • 50 mins
In this inspiring episode of The Conscious Cut, host Hoiki Liu welcomes Nassim Secci, founder of The Happy Space Co. and Hong Kong’s expert in mindful organization. Transitioning from a high-stakes career as a corporate lawyer, Nassim now empowers families to create calm, functional spaces that spark mental clarity and sustainable habits. She shares practical strategies for decluttering, rehoming preloved items through secondhand sales, and building systems to curb overconsumption in Hong Kong’s fast-paced urban life. From tackling expired food waste to navigating family dynamics, Nassim reveals how an organized home can transform daily living and reduce environmental impact. Tune in to learn how clearing your space can pave the way for a more conscious, sustainable lifestyle.
Nassim Secci is the founder of The Happy Space Co.
Thank you for listening!
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Episode Transcript
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Hoiki Liu (00:34):
Welcome back to the Conscious Cut.
Today we have with us Nassimfrom the Happy Space.
Nassim, to me, is the MarieKondo of Hong Kong.
You can take her services home.
Her and her team will sort youand your life and your space out
.
So I've invited her todaybecause I think not that I need
you guys to know, but I thinkyou guys need her services,
(00:56):
probably being in such a busyplace Hong Kong, we all have
helpers, but it doesn't equateto organization.
But it doesn't equate toorganization.
Having a clean and organizedplace, a space, is so important
for your sustainable journeyalso because when you see things
are laid out, you know wherethings that matter should go,
(01:16):
and if they don't have a placeto go, they probably don't
matter.
So you should cut that out ofyour life probably.
You just be less wasteful, moresustainable and it's a great
start to building daily habitsand practice that you can live
with.
So, without further ado, I'lllet you introduce yourself to us
.
But yeah, why don't you startoff telling us what the Happy
Space is?
Nassim Secci (01:37):
Okay, well, thank you for having me excited to be
here with you.
So the Happy Space Co is abusiness that I started more
than four years ago and it cameafter a 10-year career in law,
so I used to be a disputeslawyer.
It's what brought me to HongKong and it was great, I really
(02:04):
loved it.
But I think it just wasn't whatI wanted anymore, and so, after
a lot of soul searching, Idecided to resign, and my
resignation coincidentallyhappened when COVID hit.
And so, yeah, and I did itwithout a plan.
(02:28):
I honestly had no idea what Iwanted to do next, and that was
part of the reason I kind ofstayed in it for so long,
because I just I just keptthinking, once I figure out what
plan b is, I'm out of here.
And I never figured it outbecause I just didn't have the
time or the headspace to.
So, yeah, I got out of there,kind of went into hibernation
(02:53):
mode when the world went intohibernation mode as well, and it
came out after that it came outafter that.
Hoiki Liu (03:09):
So that's actually.
You're probably one of thefirst person to tell me that you
just resigned from yourexisting career of that matter
of years, and then you justresigned with no plan.
So how did happy space comewhen you had no plan?
Like what brought you to ahappy space then?
Nassim Secci (03:24):
So it was all just so natural.
So I was, you know, being myvery kind of diligent type, a
lawyer self, and I'd kind ofcreated these plans where I was
going to research thesedifferent business ideas and
different legal jobs, and so Iwas doing all of that.
I kind of tried to have myselfon a schedule.
(03:46):
But then, just very naturally,the very first thing I started
doing was just organizing mylife.
So I was organizing my space.
I just felt so behind in lifeand you know, at that point I
was already a mother and youknow know, kids take up even
more more time, save even lessfree time than you than you
(04:10):
probably ever had in your life.
And so I was just trying tocatch up on life and kind of
catch my breath, because I wasalways feeling like I was barely
keeping my head above water andonly doing kind of the things
that had to be done.
And so I was organizing my home, my clothes, just everything.
(04:32):
And it came really, reallyeasily and I just I kept
thinking, I was like, wow, whyam I on just such like a purging
mode?
Why am I on just such like apurging mode?
And I realized it was because Ijust finally purged and got rid
of a career that kind of that Ifelt like wasn't serving me
(04:54):
anymore, and that was such asuch a difficult decision to
make, because you have all thesethoughts in your head of, oh
gosh, I've invested so much timeand so much money in my
education and, you know, I'mfinally feeling like I know what
I'm doing in my career and andand so, yeah, so it was just a
(05:19):
matter of okay, you know what?
I?
I kind of jumped over thathurdle and everything else like
a top that I hadn't been wearingin years was so easy in
comparison.
So I was just, I was doing that, I was on a bit of a roll and I
was doing it in every respect.
And so I had a friend ask meone day like what, what are you
(05:44):
doing with yourself?
What's the plan?
And I was like there's no plan.
I have no idea, but I amorganizing my entire life.
It's what I'm doing every day,and I couldn't be happier, I
could do this every day.
And that moment I was like, huh, wait, wait, a second, maybe
(06:07):
that is what I should do.
So that's when I startedlooking into it as a business
and helping other women who werelike me, kind of feeling like
they were barely keeping theirhead above water with their
careers and kids and life, tohelp them not feel that
overwhelmed that I was alwaysfeeling.
Hoiki Liu (06:28):
Yeah, and that's why I started with saying I feel
like a lot of people in HongKong will probably need your
service, even without realizingit.
Because that's the thing mostof us don't realize it when
we're just running in the cycleof Hong Kong.
Yeah, you know, waking up,getting into the grind, coming
home, getting the rest you needas fast as possible, like you
(06:49):
don't want to go home and startsurging and tidying up, like you
don't.
You feel like with the littlebit of time you have you want to
relax, right, but here's thething you don't really relax in
a messy house.
No, you don't.
Nassim Secci (07:04):
No, and you're right.
I mean, there's something aboutHong Kong especially.
It's such an intense place,which is one of the reasons I
love it.
I feel like I am living theequivalent of three lives in
Hong Kong.
Kind of all the things that youget to do in a day.
Right, you could be doing onerandom thing and then an hour
later you could be doingsomething completely different.
Hoiki Liu (07:26):
That's the beauty.
You're dropping off your kidsand then you're going into the
public office and then you havea quick lunch meeting.
Nassim Secci (07:32):
Then you can go to work, get your groceries,
exactly Everything is so fasthere, and that's what kind of
adds to the chaos, right?
It's not a slow city by anymeans, and so there's a lot
happening.
And then also, spaces aresmaller, so, regardless of who
you are and how much space youhave, it's always less than what
(07:55):
it would be in any other city,yeah, any other country.
Hoiki Liu (07:59):
And so those, those two elements alone, I think, and
I want to top that off is that,unlike we were saying, japan,
where Marie Kondo is from, inthat culture, where a lot of
people will be maybe moreminimalistic, you know, they
live in a more structured like,more routines and structure Hong
(08:20):
Kong we don't have that.
We actually do a lot of thingsby impulse.
I mean we do have ourorganization, we do have our
plans, but we throw in a lot ofimpulses in there and there's
just, you know, we are a placewhere I mean, I'm not proud of
this, but we're a place wherepeople want things.
Nassim Secci (08:39):
Yes, yes, people like their things, we like our
things, right, and there'snothing wrong with that.
Everybody kind of has theirthing, but that's exactly right.
It's not a place where, becauseyou don't have the space,
you're going to kind of controlyour consumerism, right, like no
(08:59):
, no, no, no, we're going tofind a way we're gonna.
Hoiki Liu (09:10):
We're gonna find a way.
We just need to find more waysto.
So this is the rule I have atmy home with my kids.
Yeah, um, because I think bynow me and my husband, we've
curbed ourselves.
We, we know what our needs are,we know what we have like being
relatively organized, beingable to see what we have, we
know where to get what we need,when we need it, when you need
it.
So you know, there's not a lotof replenishing things and it's
like, oh, I already have thatthere and things like that.
(09:31):
But with kids they will forget.
You know, this is the next bestthing.
Everybody's talking about Nadra.
Now I want Nadra, but beforethat it was Pokemon and then
Playblades.
You know, so many things add up, so we only have so much space
and my rule for them is we canonly get you something else, or
even birthday presents.
We can only be open to peoplegiving you presents if you have
(09:54):
the space to put those things.
So if you want something new,what are you going to get rid of
first?
Where are you going to find thespace right?
So that concept has kind ofbeen etched into them?
Where are you going to find aspace, right.
So that concept has kind ofbeen etched into them and, with
that said, every time they wantsomething new.
They're looking at the spacethey have and well, what can I
get rid of?
And they realize I don't.
I like everything that I havehere.
(10:16):
And it helps them think about.
Nassim Secci (10:19):
Do I really need that thing Exactly?
Do I really need this otherthing?
Is it worth giving up thisother item?
I think these are really reallygreat things for kids to think
about and to be really kind ofthoughtful and mindful about
what they're consuming.
But first they need to havethat practice Totally and it
comes to the example I thinkit's seeing you guys do.
(10:44):
It is the best way for them tostart learning these things okay
, but not everybody has thatmindset like we.
Hoiki Liu (10:51):
We know that right.
So for the clients that come toyou now who do realize, oh, I
need some structure or someorganization in life, can you
tell me, like what, what was thetriggering point to get them to
realize they need this service?
And then what is it that you dofor them really?
Nassim Secci (11:12):
Yeah.
So I think it varies forcertain clients and certain
things.
So I think the main theme is alot of times there's some kind
of transition.
So you know, either there'slike a new baby arriving, and so
that tolerance of you know whatthat spare room was looking
(11:33):
like is.
Now it's at a point where, okay, you have to deal with it, and
so it sees certain kinds oftransitional periods in their
life that then force them, orsomebody's moving, or um.
But then there are also thepeople who it's that pain
(11:54):
threshold.
They just, you know, and itcould be like they couldn't, um,
somebody was telling me theycouldn't find their passports
and they missed their flights,and that was like a big wake up
call, like something, somethingneeds to change.
Or, you know, it's just likestepping on that like toy head,
(12:19):
and you're like that's it, we'redoing something about this.
So, yeah, I think they're allof us have a certain tolerance
level and then we, we hit ourbacks and it could be like the
smallest thing.
Or, you know, missing a flight,and then you're like that's it,
I need to do something aboutthis I mean you give two really
(12:40):
great examples just now, missinga flight.
Hoiki Liu (12:42):
That's a very personal wake-up call.
But I guess there's also thatmom that stepped on you know
another piece of Lego, just one,two, damn many times you know.
Nassim Secci (12:52):
Almost want to swear that it's happened to me
quite a few times and I justwant to like, yeah, no more
Legos.
Hoiki Liu (13:00):
You know, but yeah, usually it's a triggering point
for somebody.
It might not be a triggeringpoint for everybody in the
household.
Right, that's right, yeah, sohow do you deal with that?
Like I'm mad about the kids butthey don't care, or you know,
okay, a more serious issue issometimes, you know, have you
ever heard of like a depressionroom is when someone's like
(13:22):
they're so mentally out anddepressed that they can't cope
with life so they're living in amess.
You know, a lot of times we'retalking about like the four
doors and stuff.
Sometimes it's also that itgets to a point, and that's why
I said earlier like a messyspace is not a relaxing place.
No, because it actually givesyou a lot of anxiety.
Nassim Secci (13:43):
It does, instead of seeing what you have, you
realize it's all your problemspiling on to you right, that's
right, and they've done studieson this, I think, for women
especially, they see thatthey've done studies of how
women respond to theirenvironment.
If they're disorganized and nottidy, their cortisol levels are
higher, and not tidy, theircortisol levels are higher.
(14:03):
So, yeah, it's actually I seeit in my experience.
I see that it's a two-waystreet.
So it's.
You could be somebody who isdealing with depression and
anxiety and your home is areflection of that, because you
just aren't in the headspace,aren't in the headspace to
organize it, to tidy it up.
(14:24):
You kind of let things go andthen as things get worse, it
makes you feel even worse.
So it's this vicious cycle.
And you know, our spaces reallyare a reflection of our inner
state.
It's a, it's an extension of us.
(14:48):
Essentially, I think,especially our more private
spaces, I think, like our ownbedrooms, and so when those
aren't feeling right, thensometimes it is.
It's maybe a reflection ofsomething brewing inside that
isn't feeling good, and so forthese, I've personally seen the
(15:12):
impact it could have when wejust, you know, just get through
it, go through all the things,get it in, you know, get it
organized, take out what needsto come out of the home.
They feel such relief and for alot of them it's a really
important part of their kind ofrecovery.
Hoiki Liu (15:34):
Yeah, I'm sure, and there's a lot of clarity seeing
things open again.
Nassim Secci (15:40):
There's so much clarity, I think even for you
know, there are a lot of peoplewho we organize.
They might be business owners,they might be you know.
They're just kind of they'retrying to figure something out,
and when they've gotten thatclarity in their space, it's
something just kind of opens upmentally, where they know what
their next steps are.
(16:00):
They are like the creativejuices start flowing again.
It's really incredible, I think.
Hoiki Liu (16:08):
Can you walk me through the process a little bit
?
Do you do the Marie Kondo thingthat we see on Netflix, like
let's throw everything in a pileand, you know, does it spark
joy?
I mean, the thing is, I'vetried that method once.
Yeah, was it spark joy?
No, put everything in a pile,yeah, that gave me so much
anxiety and then I wanted tojust leave the pile there.
(16:29):
Me so much anxiety and then Iwanted to just leave the body
over there.
I've never looked like thatbefore.
I've never done this.
I know I guess it doesn't workfor everybody.
So I want to know, like but howdoes it work?
Because, like we said, noteverybody is like oh, I know I
need to do this.
Some people are reallyreluctant, like why are you
touching my things?
Nassim Secci (16:49):
You know like, so how?
What is your process?
So I mean, the good thing is,by the time we've gotten there,
we're working with somebody whowants us there Right, which is
important.
So that's why, when we'rehaving conversations, I never
want to push.
I want to work with somebodywho is mentally ready for it.
It's not my job to convince you.
You just you have to get thereRight.
Some you know we might betalking for a while years.
(17:12):
Yeah, there's some, some peopleI've talked to for years.
Every now and then they kind ofreach out again and so there's
something that clicks.
And so by the time you make theeffort to get the professional
help, something has clickedwithin you.
So that's like a great firststep, for sure.
But yes, I 100% believe intaking things out.
(17:37):
I don't think you need to takeeverything out all at once.
That's just kind ofdisorienting, especially if
you're doing it alone.
Hoiki Liu (17:45):
Yeah, it's really shocking that moment, like when
you suddenly see everything outbut you're like I do want all
this stuff.
Why did I think it needs tohappen before organizing?
Nassim Secci (17:53):
but I, you know, I won't, I won't complicate it
(18:14):
here.
So you want to declutter, and Ido think you can do that in
little bits.
The benefit of, of course,doing it with professional help
is, you know, we can just ripthe bandaid off and do a lot.
But if you are doing it on yourown, then, yeah, you want to
(18:34):
maybe try to do a little bit ata time.
I mean, how many people do youknow, or how many times have you
done this yourself?
Right when you start, and thenyou just can't finish.
It's just right.
Yeah, it's too much, it's toooverwhelming.
You start off with all the bestintentions, all the energy in
the world start off with all thebest intentions, all the energy
in the world.
(18:54):
And I think that's where havingsomebody help you is really
instrumental.
So I say, you know, we're likea personal trainer, except that
we can also do the pushups foryou.
Yes, you can.
If you want it, just say youknow what I can't deal with.
This.
Um, kind of, do it, you know,do the organization for me, and
(19:17):
then, of course, you have to bethe one who decides ultimately
what stays or goes.
But there's a lot that can bedone for you up until that point
.
Like you know, clothes of acertain size, like can just be
put aside for you to do a quickkind of look through and you try
(19:37):
to decide quickly if you'regoing to get rid of it.
Hoiki Liu (19:41):
So what about larger pieces?
Because I've seen you, you likeit's not just the clothing
right, a lot of times it's evenwhole pieces of furniture.
I see people like are updatingI guess maybe their lifestyles
or new marriages ormothers-in-law moving in or
moving out, whatever.
Nassim Secci (20:01):
Well, there's something that happens, like
once you get going and onceyou're like, ok, I don't, I
don't like, you know this top,or I don't want this, or I've
been unnecessarily holding on tothis, and that then you're like
, you know, I've been wanting toget rid of that couch, you know
.
You know, things just startflowing and, yeah, you should
(20:23):
seize on it, and why not?
I don't think we should besurrounded by things that we
hate.
Hoiki Liu (20:31):
Are you guys ever stuck in an argument between,
like mother-in-laws anddaughter-in-laws or, like you
know, or even I mean, husbandand wife, yeah, or children and
parents?
I was just going to say maybethe dynamics is a little bit
less, because the parentsprobably obviously have more
power there or even employersand their helpers at home If
(20:52):
helpers were to say less, I meanthere are lots of different
dynamics in play.
Nassim Secci (20:56):
Right, you have people that have different
styles.
Like, usually there'll be oneperson who's a bit more
sentimental than another person.
You have one person who reallylikes to keep things and the
other one doesn't, and so theprocess has to feel good for
(21:17):
everyone.
It's not about, you know, let'sjust get rid of everything,
let's turn you into minimalistsNot at all, and it's not fair to
the person who's having aharder time letting go to kind
of push them into doing morethan they want to do.
So it's about, I think, findingthe right compromises and for
us to try to hone in on, youknow, what is truly important to
(21:43):
each person and to let themhave it.
I mean, everyone is differentand it might be things that you
don't even expect.
Like we had a client once wholoved his cables and wires.
Like they just gave him joy,and so we organized it and we
made like a really lovely cableand wire drawer that, I think,
(22:03):
just made him feel good to have.
That's great.
I don't think he really used it, but he felt good and
ultimately think he really usedit.
Yeah, he felt good andultimately and it's organized
exactly.
It's organized, it's ready tobe used.
So why not just like women liketheir shoes, or they like their
bags, or you know, those arekind of some of the more
stereotypical things and thatwas the thing I was gonna say.
Hoiki Liu (22:24):
I'm sure, like this kind of organizing, you're
almost there to help resolvesome family conflicts, you know,
and you're there to helpimprove the relationships, like
recognizing what each person'sneeds are and how much space you
get.
Nassim Secci (22:40):
Yeah, for that, yeah the whole thing is, is it's
?
It's actually deeplypsychological, even if it's just
one individual there's.
There may be there may be guilt, there may be.
There's just so many differentthings at play.
And then you add more humanbeings and their dynamics with
(23:00):
each other, and so it does getmore complex, but it's.
What can we do to cut throughthis for everybody to feel good
and to get things in a place ina way that works?
And so for some people it meanswe're going to keep it.
Fine, let's keep it, let's havea nice container for it, let's
(23:21):
put it somewhere where it's nottaking up kind of precious real
estate and the home, and theyfeel good that it's still there.
And then maybe the other personfeels good that it can't be
seen, and that can be thecompromise and the best next
step and maybe in a few monthsthat person can revisit whether
(23:46):
they're okay to to let it go.
Hoiki Liu (23:48):
Sometimes people need to do things in, in stages,
that's true now the other thingis, how often are these clients
of more yours usually like yougo on once and and it's good, or
is there repeated visits?
Nassim Secci (24:05):
I think so, for for a lot of, they need help
creating the framework.
And so we're setting up thesystems, we're setting up the
framework, and a system is notjust oh, here are a few
containers, I've labeled themfor you.
Make sure this goes in there.
It's really thinking throughhow the family operates, the
(24:28):
strengths and weaknesses ofeveryone in the family, not
really not going too far againstthe grain and coming up with
solutions that then can bemaintained, and so designing the
system and then having a planin place for the habits that go
(24:49):
with that system so that it canbe maintained on its own.
And so there are most of ourclients, you know we'll check in
with them six months later, ayear later, even two years later
.
How is everything?
And they're like it's great,it's working beautifully, and
they just you know, eitherdidn't have the time, they
didn't, they weren't sure how todo it.
(25:11):
But as long as they aregenerally, as long as they are
in that space and that home,it's totally fine.
They just, with a little bit ofmaintenance, it works really
well, and that's ultimately ourgoal.
I want to work myself out of ajob basically our goal.
(25:35):
I want to work myself out of ajob.
Basically, I want to arm youwith the skills and with the
framework that is going to worklong term and it will need some
maintenance.
It needs some upkeep, right, ifwe're just, if we're never
decluttering, if we're neverkind of putting things back
where they belong, but it's notjust okay, now put them back
here.
It's a bit more thoughtful,let's.
(25:56):
You know, maybe every likeevery Tuesday morning, there
could be a reset for this space,like especially for kids'
spaces.
You really need this, thisupkeep, but it's so much easier
when the framework is there.
Hoiki Liu (26:13):
Yeah, I think the kids thing is also difficult
because they grow out of thingsso quickly, which brings me to
my next part.
Is I want to ask is there uh,overall, when you look at when
because you've done so much, somuch decluttering for so many
families, now, right, is theresomething by now you can
(26:34):
actually advise people like?
This is something thateverybody throws out.
You all have this at home stucksomewhere and nobody actually
wants it don't get it.
Nassim Secci (26:45):
That's, yeah, that's a really interesting
question.
Here's what I'll say to thatGifts when you're gifting
something to someone, I wouldsay, really think about whether
it's something that they like,especially decorative pieces.
And it becomes such a heartachefor people because they're like
(27:09):
this is from a really dearfriend, or this is from somebody
who will often even visit meand maybe, you know, maybe
they'll ask about it.
Or gifts from in-laws that's areally difficult one for people,
but it's usually things thatwere bought for them.
(27:33):
Okay, and so it's somethingthat I reflect on a lot.
One I'm giving gifts, and soyou know, and then what usually
happens and everybody does thisis people then re-gift.
So then the cycle continues andpeople are just passing on this
stuff that no one is ever goingto use.
(27:54):
But it's this kind of socialobligation of giving something.
So, yeah, I would say that'skind of a reoccurring theme, is
kind of these random things thatpeople were gifted and they're
like, oh, I don't know what todo with this, but it was such a
lovely gesture.
Hoiki Liu (28:14):
I've been very careful about giving gifts
because of exactly what you saidand because I am so worried
about people giving me thingsthat I don't want.
You know, I actually now mygo-to is just bring something to
eat.
Yes, can I bring something fromlike the party Like do you need
drinks?
Do you need some food, is it?
Nassim Secci (28:35):
a pot and more so to eat, not even drink, right,
because even wine, liquor, thatpiles up too, and then people
feel silly about declutteringthat.
Hoiki Liu (28:48):
It doesn't go bad, but I don't ever drink and it's
like whoa and people don'trealize, actually, when I'm
always saying fashion is thesecond most polluting industry
in the world.
Food waste is number one.
Oh, food, yes, and I assume alot of people will have this
issue because I was telling youearlier, my whole house, very
(29:09):
honestly, I don't need yourservice at my place, but in my
kitchen, okay, I don't need yourservice at my place, but in my
kitchen, okay, my kitchen ishorrible because, like I was,
like, my cupboards need to matchthe depths of the console table
on top, so everything is sodeep and I never reach it right.
Most of them are deep and myhusband knows this.
(29:30):
A lot of times on our day off,on Sunday, when I'm the one to
be in the kitchen makingbreakfast, making hovers and
around, oh my God, I have somuch anxiety and I start
cleaning the kitchen and I findso many expired food.
Yeah, and that's my biggestlike why do we have so much
expired food?
You know, like expired noodles,expired dried food.
(29:54):
It just makes no sense.
But you're not alone, you don'tsee it.
Nassim Secci (29:57):
Yeah, You're not alone.
It's so common and I think my,I think my team loves doing
kitchens because in a way, it'sreally easy.
You don't just.
You know, you're just kind oflooking at expiration dates, oh,
they can be really hard to find, but it's kind of it's like a
(30:19):
no-brainer, right.
There is so much expired food,always, always, and it's just
because we're busy and we don'talways look at those things, and
so it's really, really common,you're right.
And a lot of clients willactually complain about the food
(30:40):
in the fridge and how multiplecontainers are getting opened up
the same thing or they'reoverbuying, and so that's why I
love organization for kitchens.
I think it's so useful instopping food waste, just making
(31:00):
grocery shopping so much easier, and I think most of us are.
We're not just shopping fromone place, right.
We're shopping online frommultiple places, and then we're
doing it at the store or ourhelpers are doing it.
Multiple people are doing it.
Multiple people are doing it.
We're doing it from multipleplaces and then we're doing it
at the store or our helpers aredoing it.
Multiple people are doing it,multiple people are doing it.
We're doing it from multipleplaces.
It's you know, you're orderingthis type of thing from this
(31:23):
place.
Maybe you're having proteinpowder, your kid's snacks,
everything is from differentplaces.
And then how many times haveyou started clicking through?
You do like an iHerb order andthen you're like, oh, I just
like forgot this one or twothings, and then you don't want
to do another order.
So organization in the kitchenis so useful for daily life and
(31:49):
for not wasting knowing what youhave, using what you have.
Hoiki Liu (31:55):
I think using what you have is very important.
Nassim Secci (31:57):
It really is, and so in your case it might be
getting a container that workslabeling things, because
sometimes it's hard to rememberwhere things are.
Even figuring out whatcategories you have within a
kitchen is difficult how do youcategorize this?
But once that is figured out,then you know exactly where you
(32:21):
know tomato sauces go and youcould just quickly go and check
if you have enough, yeah, andthen you're good.
You don't need to go buy sixmore cans because you don't want
to be in a bind on Sunday yes,but the next time when you
actually look for it and take itout, it's all expired.
Yes, exactly so, having thesesystems in place and the habits
(32:43):
that go with that system.
So you know, saying it could bethe first of the month, you
know our helper, like on thefirst of the month, will go and
check all the expiration dates.
Anything that is about toexpire kind of moves forward.
Or you know there are lots ofdifferent systems that you can
(33:04):
put in place.
Or, if you are a household thateats a lot of like pastas,
having the open ones in acertain spot Because sometimes
you go back and you find liketwo packs of open spaghetti and
they just don't add up.
Hoiki Liu (33:21):
Yes, exactly.
Nassim Secci (33:23):
Or you're mixing different kinds of pasta, which
is like a sin, according to myItalian husband.
Hoiki Liu (33:30):
Okay, so now that we've gone on to talk about the
stuff that they're getting ridof I'm sure there's a lot of it
what do you do with the thingsthat people don't want anymore?
Nassim Secci (33:49):
So it might feel like a sustainable practice,
like, oh, this is a top that Iwore outside.
It has a little stain, I'lljust wear it at home.
Now, I don't believe in that atall, like, I'm very much
against it.
I think, first of all, youprobably won't wear it at home
if you're not kind of in thehabit of it and, second of all,
if you're not going to wear itout, then why wear it at home?
(34:11):
For yourself, right?
It needs to be feel good foryou, right?
Regardless of whether otherpeople see it or not.
And so there's this bit of adilemma, right, where, like for
us, a successful declutteringsession is getting rid of more,
(34:32):
but then for a lot of people,that feels wasteful, so they
want to try to find ways toreuse or repurpose, and
ultimately, I think it justcreates a heavier load.
It's another to-do item, it'sanother, and so part of what I
want to do is try to find theright thing to do with those
(34:52):
items.
So, okay, let's just donate it.
I think a lot of people like toresell items, and that's an
honest conversation that I liketo have with clients, because I
think, frankly, for most thingsit's not worth the energy, the
time that it takes to post, andso it's trying to find kind of
(35:13):
smart shortcuts.
Is there a school that thesecould be donated to?
Or is there, like somebody inyour family that would, that
would use it and not to justpawn things off on other people
right, because that happens alot but to really come up with a
solution that is effective butquick and not, you know,
(35:37):
involving I'm going to sand thisdown and paint it, and some
people are, yeah, we'lldefinitely do that, but for most
people it's not going to happen, and so it's finding realistic
things that we can do.
Hoiki Liu (35:51):
I think in Hong Kong it's hard to expect that out of
a lot of people that live incities with a regular day-to-day
job, because the reason theygot here in the first place is
because they didn't feel likethey had that time and capacity.
Nassim Secci (36:05):
So to expect them to all of a sudden gain that
time and capacity, exactly.
It's not realistic.
It's not realistic.
I have a really reallypractical approach and so it's.
You know, it's totally fine toresell things.
Let's do it, and they're likegreat platforms out there to
(36:25):
help.
Hoiki Liu (36:27):
I've even seen you do it on your own Instagram with
large furniture pieces andthere's a few times where I was
like, oh yeah, but I was like,do I actually have the space?
Nassim Secci (36:37):
Yeah, so and so that's.
That's one of the kind of quick, easy solutions is we'll try to
just post it on, post it on ourstories.
We also have a WhatsApp groupRight and we'll just post it on
there.
And most of the time it's notfor free, because we want people
(37:00):
to want it and some people arekind of lured by the fact that
something is free, but we wantsomebody to come get it who is
going to pay, like you know 100Hong Kong dollars or you know
500 Hong Kong dollars orsomething that might have been
worth 50,000 Hong Kong dollars.
But the point is like rehomingand I love that.
(37:23):
I get such satisfaction fromthings getting rehomed and I'll
often get pictures from peoplewho have gotten the items and
even for donations.
So when we're donating, we justtake it with us immediately and
get it donated.
We will not leave it in yourhouse.
First of all, we don't want toadd to your to-do list.
(37:44):
Second of all, there's alwaysthe risk of somebody pulling
things back in there and pullingthings back out, and so we just
get it.
We get it donated for you.
But to also be very thoughtfulabout about the way we donate.
So there might be things thatwe're donating and they come in
(38:04):
multiple pieces, so putting in alittle bit of effort to tie
them all up in a bag and ifthere's like instructions,
instructions, maybe just stickthe instructions in there again.
It's just finding that rightbalance of practicality and, and
you know, usefulness right andso making sure we're not just
kind of that, we're donating ina respectful way.
(38:28):
And then there's some thingsthat is a bit borderline and
it's like unfortunately,unfortunately.
I don't think somebody canreuse this, so let's not you
know let's not donate the puzzlethat's missing two pieces.
Hoiki Liu (38:39):
You know it's like.
Oh well, you know, is the kidthat's gonna get it gonna be
happy or sad about this?
If he is really disrespectfulin some way.
Nassim Secci (38:48):
You don't want to frustrate a poor child that is
so excited to get this like pawpatrol puzzle and it's missing.
It's missing the pieces.
So what do we do if?
If on the box it says a 30piece puzzle, we don't sit there
and try to make the puzzle tosee if something's missing.
We just quickly count thepieces and then, okay, they're
only 28 here, it's a 30, it's a30 piece puzzle, so
(39:09):
unfortunately that that can't beused.
Hoiki Liu (39:13):
Yeah, I mean that that's the saying wish, uh, wish
cycling, which is like when yourecycle something, you don't
know what's happening to it orwhere it's gonna go.
You just wish that it'sactually going to go where it
should go.
Same thing with donations.
A lot of times, I think we'rewish donating, like we feel so
(39:33):
good about giving things away,but, yeah, you don't think about
like who's actually gonna getit.
Do they actually want it?
You know, is it respectful foryou to give, you know, certain
things away, like, like, like wesaid, like toys with missing
pieces, right, flows of stainsthat you can't remove, right?
Um, so I think we, we do needto be very realistic about that.
(39:54):
Yeah, bringing it back is whenthe clients see what you guys
are taking all these things away, are they, do they realize the
work that you guys still have todo when you leave with their,
their things that they don't nolonger want?
Or do they think, oh, it'sgreat, you're gonna donate
everything for us and I can goon a new cycle of of consumerism
(40:17):
now?
Or is it like, look guys, likethis is what you know, because
it's part of the habit buildingand practice like, like this is
what we've achieved, like thisis all the things that we're
saying goodbye to, and you know,how do you?
I guess, how?
How do I even put this?
Like, what is their thoughtprocess?
Are they like, oh great, I'mgoing to live more sustainably
(40:41):
now because, without we us evenusing that word it's just a
natural lifestyle change thatwas needed?
That's why you were called into begin with?
Yeah, or is it like, oh great,you know, I'm getting all of my
stuff like, let's buy again Iwould say, yeah, we don't.
Nassim Secci (40:58):
We don't discuss sustainability, we don't.
I don't see my role as kind ofschooling anybody.
Hoiki Liu (41:06):
I just find that a bit judgmental and I think,
counterproductive with whatyou're doing already without
having to call it out.
Nassim Secci (41:16):
That's exactly so.
I never, I never do that.
I think I I want to be reallyencouraging of people engaging
in the process and and doingtaking these steps to feel
better about their space, feelbetter about about themselves.
So there's never this kind oflike what are our lessons
(41:38):
learned?
No, but a very, very naturalbyproduct of what we do and you
can just see it in their facesis this realization, and for
everybody it's different.
But there is a realization of,okay, I just I bought a few too
many things, or, you know, Ishould be a bit more kind of
(42:01):
mindful about this, and so it isa very slow kind of, I think,
quiet realization.
And then for others it might bea bit heavier where they really
feel badly about it.
And what I say to that is wehave to be forward looking here.
It's not wasteful.
(42:22):
Today, where we're taking theitems for donation, or you know
we're trashing some items or youknow recycling some items, the
waste happened at the moment ofpurchase, when you bought
something that you thought youwere going to use and you never
ended up using or you bought toomuch.
That's when it happened.
(42:42):
So let's not carry that burdenon what's happening today.
Today we are lightening theload and then we just want to
take a lesson from that and justbe forward, looking forward and
a lot of it.
Hoiki Liu (42:56):
It just happens very, very organically is there also
things that people like you haveto get rid of because, like,
there is um missing pieces orthings, but then they actually
really like this puzzle, forexample, or they really like the
certain address, but now it'smissing some buttons or missing
(43:16):
a belt or something like that.
Like, is there things like thatthat happen, or is it usually
like, the things that they'regetting rid of is what they
absolutely don't?
Nassim Secci (43:25):
No, no, no, well, so those kinds of things come up
all the time, and so a part ofwhat we do is, well, we could
just change all of the buttons,and you know.
And then they might be like, ohyeah, I didn't think about that
, oh, that that's, that's a goodidea.
And then they have to thenthink okay, is the cost of
changing these buttons somethingthat I, you know, I want to
(43:47):
invest in?
Is this piece important enoughfor me?
And then they make the decisionthen.
And then there are a lot of us,you know, we have sentimental
things.
So, yeah, it might be a puzzlethat's missing pieces, but it
was something that was maybepassed down in the family and we
want to keep, and so we cankeep it.
(44:08):
But we put it in a nice likesentimental box or in a
memorabilia box and we keep it.
And and then now you have adesignated place to put those
sorts of things.
Hoiki Liu (44:20):
I guess it helps people recognize like the things
, like things will deteriorate,they will break, like things
that matter to you.
You should be organized aboutit, because when you're, when
you're neat and tidy, thelongevity of these things are
just, it's just gonna lastlonger.
Nassim Secci (44:35):
Totally, there are these very practical elements
of oh, there were bags that werestuffed at the back of my
wardrobe and they've gone moldybecause I didn't even remember
that they were there, and so youare going to preserve your
things better.
If your space is organized, ifyour things are accessible,
(44:55):
visible, then you're going touse it, and that ultimately,
like what is more sustainablethan that Consuming and using
the things that you havepurchased?
Hoiki Liu (45:05):
I do want to talk about one more thing, actually,
when we're talking about theclitorate and the things that
you donate, I remember there wasone time you hosted a
secondhand sale in Tycoon, sothat was a very I mean I assume
those things were all from yourcustomers.
Did you collect them for themfor a period of time and then
you host it as an annual thing,or what was that all?
Nassim Secci (45:28):
about.
So yeah, so kind of going backto this idea of how do we, where
does this stuff go, right, andwanting to be practical about it
.
And you know, just very kind ofrealistic about the approach.
So there are lots of thingsthat you can donate, but then
there's certain things that justdon't make sense to donate.
For a lot of clients it's reallygreat pieces that are almost
(45:56):
new, and so you know, we workwith a lot of secondhand
platforms like Hula, but eventhese guys are getting
completely bombarded with stock,and so you know, normally I
would just go to them and say,can we sell these items with you
?
And they, they can't take somuch of it.
(46:20):
So then I thought, ok, let me,let me try to organize something
.
And so I was.
I was kind of doing it one offand then we just had so much
that I thought, all right, let'sorganize a sale.
And that was really fun.
We sold a lot of great piecesand we're still doing it.
(46:41):
It's going to be an ongoingthing because there is this
problem right of where does thisstuff go?
And so if you price it well,but people are still paying for
it, they're paying for somethingthat they still love.
They're still being thoughtfulabout it, trying it on.
Is this something I'm going towear, something I'm going to use
(47:02):
?
But then they feel greatbecause they're getting it at
such a deal, so it's a win-win.
And then our clients feel goodbecause they are getting a
little bit bad for it.
Hoiki Liu (47:14):
but then it's getting rehomed and it's being done in
a really thoughtful way, thefeeling that it's no longer a
wish donation, but like itactually got cycled back into
somebody's life cycle.
Nassim Secci (47:26):
Exactly, and then and then there are people who
will send me pictures of themusing the pieces and it's just,
I don't know it.
It's so.
It's such a great feeling.
Yeah, see that right, andthey're so excited, so it's,
it's great, it's part of it'spart of this ecosystem of ours,
right?
I mean I would love to be ableto match people and kind of
(47:46):
rehome things and, and we dothat, I mean it's and I think
it's it's.
Hoiki Liu (47:51):
It's been harder for Hong Kong to pick up, but it's
actually going to be part of myfuture segments, talking about
more secondhand buying andreusing and sharing even sharing
platforms.
I think it's something thatit's definitely something that
it's going to be around for thefuture.
(48:13):
A secondhand shop.
Nassim Secci (48:14):
I think so and I think there's still.
There's a little bit of shametied to it, and there's also a
little bit of shame tied topeople using professional
organizers.
So, you know, it's veryinteresting, but I don't think
there should be any.
I think it's great to buysecondhand.
Hoiki Liu (48:33):
Yeah, if it's something you love, that you
would, you know, purchase atfull price, like you know, truly
use, and I think this is why alot of like what we're doing and
this generation is about isbreaking the old cycles of the
way we see things, the way wesaw shame, the way we saw
success even it's notnecessarily what we need going
(48:55):
forward Totally, I think,especially when it comes to
getting help for doing somethinglike this.
Nassim Secci (49:01):
For a lot of people, they think, well, it's
so simple, I should be able todo this on my own, and there is
a lot of social pressure that,oh well, just you know, just
just whip it up, just organizeit yourself, just declutter
yourself, and I I think that youknow delegating outsourcing
(49:23):
you're gonna get it done faster,you're gonna get get it done
better, and instead of agonizingfor months and months and
months and living in this waytrying to convince yourself that
it's okay to get help, you justget it done.
Hoiki Liu (49:35):
Yeah, and you're living in a really peaceful home
, yeah and it's not necessarilyeven just, uh, when you live
with other people and families.
I find often it might beactually when you're living
alone because you don't havethat.
You don't have anybody elsethat you need to answer to about
your home, so you can reallylet that anxiety grow.
Um, I almost feel like it'swhen I got married that me and
(49:58):
my husband got more organizedbecause we have to be respectful
towards each other, right?
So, yeah, I think for anybodyand everybody, like, really
think about it.
If you need someone to helpclear your space so you can
clear your mind, please get thatdone.
I'm gonna share your handlesand your contacts at the end of
this podcast and also I'm gonnaneed to ask you to update us
(50:22):
when you have those secondhandsales so I can promote it to our
customers.
Sure, definitely very much foryour time today.
Thank you, this was fun, thankyou.
Welcome back to the Conscious Cut.
Today we have with us Nassimfrom the Happy Space.
Nassim, to me, is the MarieKondo of Hong Kong.
You can take her services home.
Her and her team will sort youand your life and your space out
.
So I've invited her todaybecause I think not that I need
you guys to know, but I thinkyou guys need her services,
(00:56):
probably being in such a busyplace Hong Kong, we all have
helpers, but it doesn't equateto organization.
But it doesn't equate toorganization.
Having a clean and organizedplace, a space, is so important
for your sustainable journeyalso because when you see things
are laid out, you know wherethings that matter should go,
(01:16):
and if they don't have a placeto go, they probably don't
matter.
So you should cut that out ofyour life probably.
You just be less wasteful, moresustainable and it's a great
start to building daily habitsand practice that you can live
with.
So, without further ado, I'lllet you introduce yourself to us
.
But yeah, why don't you startoff telling us what the Happy
Space is?
Nassim Secci (01:37):
Okay, well, thank you for having me excited to be
here with you.
So the Happy Space Co is abusiness that I started more
than four years ago and it cameafter a 10-year career in law,
so I used to be a disputeslawyer.
It's what brought me to HongKong and it was great, I really
(02:04):
loved it.
But I think it just wasn't whatI wanted anymore, and so, after
a lot of soul searching, Idecided to resign, and my
resignation coincidentallyhappened when COVID hit.
And so, yeah, and I did itwithout a plan.
(02:28):
I honestly had no idea what Iwanted to do next, and that was
part of the reason I kind ofstayed in it for so long,
because I just I just keptthinking, once I figure out what
plan b is, I'm out of here.
And I never figured it outbecause I just didn't have the
time or the headspace to.
So, yeah, I got out of there,kind of went into hibernation
(02:53):
mode when the world went intohibernation mode as well, and it
came out after that it came outafter that.
Hoiki Liu (03:09):
So that's actually.
You're probably one of thefirst person to tell me that you
just resigned from yourexisting career of that matter
of years, and then you justresigned with no plan.
So how did happy space comewhen you had no plan?
Like what brought you to ahappy space then?
Nassim Secci (03:24):
So it was all just so natural.
So I was, you know, being myvery kind of diligent type, a
lawyer self, and I'd kind ofcreated these plans where I was
going to research thesedifferent business ideas and
different legal jobs, and so Iwas doing all of that.
I kind of tried to have myselfon a schedule.
(03:46):
But then, just very naturally,the very first thing I started
doing was just organizing mylife.
So I was organizing my space.
I just felt so behind in lifeand you know, at that point I
was already a mother and youknow know, kids take up even
more more time, save even lessfree time than you than you
(04:10):
probably ever had in your life.
And so I was just trying tocatch up on life and kind of
catch my breath, because I wasalways feeling like I was barely
keeping my head above water andonly doing kind of the things
that had to be done.
And so I was organizing my home, my clothes, just everything.
(04:32):
And it came really, reallyeasily and I just I kept
thinking, I was like, wow, whyam I on just such like a purging
mode?
Why am I on just such like apurging mode?
And I realized it was because Ijust finally purged and got rid
of a career that kind of that Ifelt like wasn't serving me
(04:54):
anymore, and that was such asuch a difficult decision to
make, because you have all thesethoughts in your head of, oh
gosh, I've invested so much timeand so much money in my
education and, you know, I'mfinally feeling like I know what
I'm doing in my career and andand so, yeah, so it was just a
(05:19):
matter of okay, you know what?
I?
I kind of jumped over thathurdle and everything else like
a top that I hadn't been wearingin years was so easy in
comparison.
So I was just, I was doing that, I was on a bit of a roll and I
was doing it in every respect.
And so I had a friend ask meone day like what, what are you
(05:44):
doing with yourself?
What's the plan?
And I was like there's no plan.
I have no idea, but I amorganizing my entire life.
It's what I'm doing every day,and I couldn't be happier, I
could do this every day.
And that moment I was like, huh, wait, wait, a second, maybe
(06:07):
that is what I should do.
So that's when I startedlooking into it as a business
and helping other women who werelike me, kind of feeling like
they were barely keeping theirhead above water with their
careers and kids and life, tohelp them not feel that
overwhelmed that I was alwaysfeeling.
Hoiki Liu (06:28):
Yeah, and that's why I started with saying I feel
like a lot of people in HongKong will probably need your
service, even without realizingit.
Because that's the thing mostof us don't realize it when
we're just running in the cycleof Hong Kong.
Yeah, you know, waking up,getting into the grind, coming
home, getting the rest you needas fast as possible, like you
(06:49):
don't want to go home and startsurging and tidying up, like you
don't.
You feel like with the littlebit of time you have you want to
relax, right, but here's thething you don't really relax in
a messy house.
No, you don't.
Nassim Secci (07:04):
No, and you're right.
I mean, there's something aboutHong Kong especially.
It's such an intense place,which is one of the reasons I
love it.
I feel like I am living theequivalent of three lives in
Hong Kong.
Kind of all the things that youget to do in a day.
Right, you could be doing onerandom thing and then an hour
later you could be doingsomething completely different.
Hoiki Liu (07:26):
That's the beauty.
You're dropping off your kidsand then you're going into the
public office and then you havea quick lunch meeting.
Nassim Secci (07:32):
Then you can go to work, get your groceries,
exactly Everything is so fasthere, and that's what kind of
adds to the chaos, right?
It's not a slow city by anymeans, and so there's a lot
happening.
And then also, spaces aresmaller, so, regardless of who
you are and how much space youhave, it's always less than what
(07:55):
it would be in any other city,yeah, any other country.
Hoiki Liu (07:59):
And so those, those two elements alone, I think, and
I want to top that off is that,unlike we were saying, japan,
where Marie Kondo is from, inthat culture, where a lot of
people will be maybe moreminimalistic, you know, they
live in a more structured like,more routines and structure Hong
(08:20):
Kong we don't have that.
We actually do a lot of thingsby impulse.
I mean we do have ourorganization, we do have our
plans, but we throw in a lot ofimpulses in there and there's
just, you know, we are a placewhere I mean, I'm not proud of
this, but we're a place wherepeople want things.
Nassim Secci (08:39):
Yes, yes, people like their things, we like our
things, right, and there'snothing wrong with that.
Everybody kind of has theirthing, but that's exactly right.
It's not a place where, becauseyou don't have the space,
you're going to kind of controlyour consumerism, right, like no
(08:59):
, no, no, no, we're going tofind a way we're gonna.
Hoiki Liu (09:10):
We're gonna find a way.
We just need to find more waysto.
So this is the rule I have atmy home with my kids.
Yeah, um, because I think bynow me and my husband, we've
curbed ourselves.
We, we know what our needs are,we know what we have like being
relatively organized, beingable to see what we have, we
know where to get what we need,when we need it, when you need
it.
So you know, there's not a lotof replenishing things and it's
like, oh, I already have thatthere and things like that.
(09:31):
But with kids they will forget.
You know, this is the next bestthing.
Everybody's talking about Nadra.
Now I want Nadra, but beforethat it was Pokemon and then
Playblades.
You know, so many things add up, so we only have so much space
and my rule for them is we canonly get you something else, or
even birthday presents.
We can only be open to peoplegiving you presents if you have
(09:54):
the space to put those things.
So if you want something new,what are you going to get rid of
first?
Where are you going to find thespace right?
So that concept has kind ofbeen etched into them?
Where are you going to find aspace, right.
So that concept has kind ofbeen etched into them and, with
that said, every time they wantsomething new.
They're looking at the spacethey have and well, what can I
get rid of?
And they realize I don't.
I like everything that I havehere.
(10:16):
And it helps them think about.
Nassim Secci (10:19):
Do I really need that thing Exactly?
Do I really need this otherthing?
Is it worth giving up thisother item?
I think these are really reallygreat things for kids to think
about and to be really kind ofthoughtful and mindful about
what they're consuming.
But first they need to havethat practice Totally and it
comes to the example I thinkit's seeing you guys do.
(10:44):
It is the best way for them tostart learning these things okay
, but not everybody has thatmindset like we.
Hoiki Liu (10:51):
We know that right.
So for the clients that come toyou now who do realize, oh, I
need some structure or someorganization in life, can you
tell me, like what, what was thetriggering point to get them to
realize they need this service?
And then what is it that you dofor them really?
Nassim Secci (11:12):
Yeah.
So I think it varies forcertain clients and certain
things.
So I think the main theme is alot of times there's some kind
of transition.
So you know, either there'slike a new baby arriving, and so
that tolerance of you know whatthat spare room was looking
(11:33):
like is.
Now it's at a point where, okay, you have to deal with it, and
so it sees certain kinds oftransitional periods in their
life that then force them, orsomebody's moving, or um.
But then there are also thepeople who it's that pain
(11:54):
threshold.
They just, you know, and itcould be like they couldn't, um,
somebody was telling me theycouldn't find their passports
and they missed their flights,and that was like a big wake up
call, like something, somethingneeds to change.
Or, you know, it's just likestepping on that like toy head,
(12:19):
and you're like that's it, we'redoing something about this.
So, yeah, I think they're allof us have a certain tolerance
level and then we, we hit ourbacks and it could be like the
smallest thing.
Or, you know, missing a flight,and then you're like that's it,
I need to do something aboutthis I mean you give two really
(12:40):
great examples just now, missinga flight.
Hoiki Liu (12:42):
That's a very personal wake-up call.
But I guess there's also thatmom that stepped on you know
another piece of Lego, just one,two, damn many times you know.
Nassim Secci (12:52):
Almost want to swear that it's happened to me
quite a few times and I justwant to like, yeah, no more
Legos.
Hoiki Liu (13:00):
You know, but yeah, usually it's a triggering point
for somebody.
It might not be a triggeringpoint for everybody in the
household.
Right, that's right, yeah, sohow do you deal with that?
Like I'm mad about the kids butthey don't care, or you know,
okay, a more serious issue issometimes, you know, have you
ever heard of like a depressionroom is when someone's like
(13:22):
they're so mentally out anddepressed that they can't cope
with life so they're living in amess.
You know, a lot of times we'retalking about like the four
doors and stuff.
Sometimes it's also that itgets to a point, and that's why
I said earlier like a messyspace is not a relaxing place.
No, because it actually givesyou a lot of anxiety.
Nassim Secci (13:43):
It does, instead of seeing what you have, you
realize it's all your problemspiling on to you right, that's
right, and they've done studieson this, I think, for women
especially, they see thatthey've done studies of how
women respond to theirenvironment.
If they're disorganized and nottidy, their cortisol levels are
higher, and not tidy, theircortisol levels are higher.
(14:03):
So, yeah, it's actually I seeit in my experience.
I see that it's a two-waystreet.
So it's.
You could be somebody who isdealing with depression and
anxiety and your home is areflection of that, because you
just aren't in the headspace,aren't in the headspace to
organize it, to tidy it up.
(14:24):
You kind of let things go andthen as things get worse, it
makes you feel even worse.
So it's this vicious cycle.
And you know, our spaces reallyare a reflection of our inner
state.
It's a, it's an extension of us.
(14:48):
Essentially, I think,especially our more private
spaces, I think, like our ownbedrooms, and so when those
aren't feeling right, thensometimes it is.
It's maybe a reflection ofsomething brewing inside that
isn't feeling good, and so forthese, I've personally seen the
(15:12):
impact it could have when wejust, you know, just get through
it, go through all the things,get it in, you know, get it
organized, take out what needsto come out of the home.
They feel such relief and for alot of them it's a really
important part of their kind ofrecovery.
Hoiki Liu (15:34):
Yeah, I'm sure, and there's a lot of clarity seeing
things open again.
Nassim Secci (15:40):
There's so much clarity, I think even for you
know, there are a lot of peoplewho we organize.
They might be business owners,they might be you know.
They're just kind of they'retrying to figure something out,
and when they've gotten thatclarity in their space, it's
something just kind of opens upmentally, where they know what
their next steps are.
(16:00):
They are like the creativejuices start flowing again.
It's really incredible, I think.
Hoiki Liu (16:08):
Can you walk me through the process a little bit
?
Do you do the Marie Kondo thingthat we see on Netflix, like
let's throw everything in a pileand, you know, does it spark
joy?
I mean, the thing is, I'vetried that method once.
Yeah, was it spark joy?
No, put everything in a pile,yeah, that gave me so much
anxiety and then I wanted tojust leave the pile there.
(16:29):
Me so much anxiety and then Iwanted to just leave the body
over there.
I've never looked like thatbefore.
I've never done this.
I know I guess it doesn't workfor everybody.
So I want to know, like but howdoes it work?
Because, like we said, noteverybody is like oh, I know I
need to do this.
Some people are reallyreluctant, like why are you
touching my things?
Nassim Secci (16:49):
You know like, so how?
What is your process?
So I mean, the good thing is,by the time we've gotten there,
we're working with somebody whowants us there Right, which is
important.
So that's why, when we'rehaving conversations, I never
want to push.
I want to work with somebodywho is mentally ready for it.
It's not my job to convince you.
You just you have to get thereRight.
Some you know we might betalking for a while years.
(17:12):
Yeah, there's some, some peopleI've talked to for years.
Every now and then they kind ofreach out again and so there's
something that clicks.
And so by the time you make theeffort to get the professional
help, something has clickedwithin you.
So that's like a great firststep, for sure.
But yes, I 100% believe intaking things out.
(17:37):
I don't think you need to takeeverything out all at once.
That's just kind ofdisorienting, especially if
you're doing it alone.
Hoiki Liu (17:45):
Yeah, it's really shocking that moment, like when
you suddenly see everything outbut you're like I do want all
this stuff.
Why did I think it needs tohappen before organizing?
Nassim Secci (17:53):
but I, you know, I won't, I won't complicate it
(18:14):
here.
So you want to declutter, and Ido think you can do that in
little bits.
The benefit of, of course,doing it with professional help
is, you know, we can just ripthe bandaid off and do a lot.
But if you are doing it on yourown, then, yeah, you want to
(18:34):
maybe try to do a little bit ata time.
I mean, how many people do youknow, or how many times have you
done this yourself?
Right when you start, and thenyou just can't finish.
It's just right.
Yeah, it's too much, it's toooverwhelming.
You start off with all the bestintentions, all the energy in
the world start off with all thebest intentions, all the energy
in the world.
(18:54):
And I think that's where havingsomebody help you is really
instrumental.
So I say, you know, we're likea personal trainer, except that
we can also do the pushups foryou.
Yes, you can.
If you want it, just say youknow what I can't deal with.
This.
Um, kind of, do it, you know,do the organization for me, and
(19:17):
then, of course, you have to bethe one who decides ultimately
what stays or goes.
But there's a lot that can bedone for you up until that point
.
Like you know, clothes of acertain size, like can just be
put aside for you to do a quickkind of look through and you try
(19:37):
to decide quickly if you'regoing to get rid of it.
Hoiki Liu (19:41):
So what about larger pieces?
Because I've seen you, you likeit's not just the clothing
right, a lot of times it's evenwhole pieces of furniture.
I see people like are updatingI guess maybe their lifestyles
or new marriages ormothers-in-law moving in or
moving out, whatever.
Nassim Secci (20:01):
Well, there's something that happens, like
once you get going and onceyou're like, ok, I don't, I
don't like, you know this top,or I don't want this, or I've
been unnecessarily holding on tothis, and that then you're like
, you know, I've been wanting toget rid of that couch, you know
.
You know, things just startflowing and, yeah, you should
(20:23):
seize on it, and why not?
I don't think we should besurrounded by things that we
hate.
Hoiki Liu (20:31):
Are you guys ever stuck in an argument between,
like mother-in-laws anddaughter-in-laws or, like you
know, or even I mean, husbandand wife, yeah, or children and
parents?
I was just going to say maybethe dynamics is a little bit
less, because the parentsprobably obviously have more
power there or even employersand their helpers at home If
(20:52):
helpers were to say less, I meanthere are lots of different
dynamics in play.
Nassim Secci (20:56):
Right, you have people that have different
styles.
Like, usually there'll be oneperson who's a bit more
sentimental than another person.
You have one person who reallylikes to keep things and the
other one doesn't, and so theprocess has to feel good for
(21:17):
everyone.
It's not about, you know, let'sjust get rid of everything,
let's turn you into minimalistsNot at all, and it's not fair to
the person who's having aharder time letting go to kind
of push them into doing morethan they want to do.
So it's about, I think, findingthe right compromises and for
us to try to hone in on, youknow, what is truly important to
(21:43):
each person and to let themhave it.
I mean, everyone is differentand it might be things that you
don't even expect.
Like we had a client once wholoved his cables and wires.
Like they just gave him joy,and so we organized it and we
made like a really lovely cableand wire drawer that, I think,
(22:03):
just made him feel good to have.
That's great.
I don't think he really used it, but he felt good and
ultimately think he really usedit.
Yeah, he felt good andultimately and it's organized
exactly.
It's organized, it's ready tobe used.
So why not just like women liketheir shoes, or they like their
bags, or you know, those arekind of some of the more
stereotypical things and thatwas the thing I was gonna say.
Hoiki Liu (22:24):
I'm sure, like this kind of organizing, you're
almost there to help resolvesome family conflicts, you know,
and you're there to helpimprove the relationships, like
recognizing what each person'sneeds are and how much space you
get.
Nassim Secci (22:40):
Yeah, for that, yeah the whole thing is, is it's
?
It's actually deeplypsychological, even if it's just
one individual there's.
There may be there may be guilt, there may be.
There's just so many differentthings at play.
And then you add more humanbeings and their dynamics with
(23:00):
each other, and so it does getmore complex, but it's.
What can we do to cut throughthis for everybody to feel good
and to get things in a place ina way that works?
And so for some people it meanswe're going to keep it.
Fine, let's keep it, let's havea nice container for it, let's
(23:21):
put it somewhere where it's nottaking up kind of precious real
estate and the home, and theyfeel good that it's still there.
And then maybe the other personfeels good that it can't be
seen, and that can be thecompromise and the best next
step and maybe in a few monthsthat person can revisit whether
(23:46):
they're okay to to let it go.
Hoiki Liu (23:48):
Sometimes people need to do things in, in stages,
that's true now the other thingis, how often are these clients
of more yours usually like yougo on once and and it's good, or
is there repeated visits?
Nassim Secci (24:05):
I think so, for for a lot of, they need help
creating the framework.
And so we're setting up thesystems, we're setting up the
framework, and a system is notjust oh, here are a few
containers, I've labeled themfor you.
Make sure this goes in there.
It's really thinking throughhow the family operates, the
(24:28):
strengths and weaknesses ofeveryone in the family, not
really not going too far againstthe grain and coming up with
solutions that then can bemaintained, and so designing the
system and then having a planin place for the habits that go
(24:49):
with that system so that it canbe maintained on its own.
And so there are most of ourclients, you know we'll check in
with them six months later, ayear later, even two years later
.
How is everything?
And they're like it's great,it's working beautifully, and
they just you know, eitherdidn't have the time, they
didn't, they weren't sure how todo it.
(25:11):
But as long as they aregenerally, as long as they are
in that space and that home,it's totally fine.
They just, with a little bit ofmaintenance, it works really
well, and that's ultimately ourgoal.
I want to work myself out of ajob basically our goal.
(25:35):
I want to work myself out of ajob.
Basically, I want to arm youwith the skills and with the
framework that is going to worklong term and it will need some
maintenance.
It needs some upkeep, right, ifwe're just, if we're never
decluttering, if we're neverkind of putting things back
where they belong, but it's notjust okay, now put them back
here.
It's a bit more thoughtful,let's.
(25:56):
You know, maybe every likeevery Tuesday morning, there
could be a reset for this space,like especially for kids'
spaces.
You really need this, thisupkeep, but it's so much easier
when the framework is there.
Hoiki Liu (26:13):
Yeah, I think the kids thing is also difficult
because they grow out of thingsso quickly, which brings me to
my next part.
Is I want to ask is there uh,overall, when you look at when
because you've done so much, somuch decluttering for so many
families, now, right, is theresomething by now you can
(26:34):
actually advise people like?
This is something thateverybody throws out.
You all have this at home stucksomewhere and nobody actually
wants it don't get it.
Nassim Secci (26:45):
That's, yeah, that's a really interesting
question.
Here's what I'll say to thatGifts when you're gifting
something to someone, I wouldsay, really think about whether
it's something that they like,especially decorative pieces.
And it becomes such a heartachefor people because they're like
(27:09):
this is from a really dearfriend, or this is from somebody
who will often even visit meand maybe, you know, maybe
they'll ask about it.
Or gifts from in-laws that's areally difficult one for people,
but it's usually things thatwere bought for them.
(27:33):
Okay, and so it's somethingthat I reflect on a lot.
One I'm giving gifts, and soyou know, and then what usually
happens and everybody does thisis people then re-gift.
So then the cycle continues andpeople are just passing on this
stuff that no one is ever goingto use.
(27:54):
But it's this kind of socialobligation of giving something.
So, yeah, I would say that'skind of a reoccurring theme, is
kind of these random things thatpeople were gifted and they're
like, oh, I don't know what todo with this, but it was such a
lovely gesture.
Hoiki Liu (28:14):
I've been very careful about giving gifts
because of exactly what you saidand because I am so worried
about people giving me thingsthat I don't want.
You know, I actually now mygo-to is just bring something to
eat.
Yes, can I bring something fromlike the party Like do you need
drinks?
Do you need some food, is it?
Nassim Secci (28:35):
a pot and more so to eat, not even drink, right,
because even wine, liquor, thatpiles up too, and then people
feel silly about declutteringthat.
Hoiki Liu (28:48):
It doesn't go bad, but I don't ever drink and it's
like whoa and people don'trealize, actually, when I'm
always saying fashion is thesecond most polluting industry
in the world.
Food waste is number one.
Oh, food, yes, and I assume alot of people will have this
issue because I was telling youearlier, my whole house, very
(29:09):
honestly, I don't need yourservice at my place, but in my
kitchen, okay, I don't need yourservice at my place, but in my
kitchen, okay, my kitchen ishorrible because, like I was,
like, my cupboards need to matchthe depths of the console table
on top, so everything is sodeep and I never reach it right.
Most of them are deep and myhusband knows this.
(29:30):
A lot of times on our day off,on Sunday, when I'm the one to
be in the kitchen makingbreakfast, making hovers and
around, oh my God, I have somuch anxiety and I start
cleaning the kitchen and I findso many expired food.
Yeah, and that's my biggestlike why do we have so much
expired food?
You know, like expired noodles,expired dried food.
(29:54):
It just makes no sense.
But you're not alone, you don'tsee it.
Nassim Secci (29:57):
Yeah, You're not alone.
It's so common and I think my,I think my team loves doing
kitchens because in a way, it'sreally easy.
You don't just.
You know, you're just kind oflooking at expiration dates, oh,
they can be really hard to find, but it's kind of it's like a
(30:19):
no-brainer, right.
There is so much expired food,always, always, and it's just
because we're busy and we don'talways look at those things, and
so it's really, really common,you're right.
And a lot of clients willactually complain about the food
(30:40):
in the fridge and how multiplecontainers are getting opened up
the same thing or they'reoverbuying, and so that's why I
love organization for kitchens.
I think it's so useful instopping food waste, just making
(31:00):
grocery shopping so much easier, and I think most of us are.
We're not just shopping fromone place, right.
We're shopping online frommultiple places, and then we're
doing it at the store or ourhelpers are doing it.
Multiple people are doing it.
Multiple people are doing it.
We're doing it from multipleplaces and then we're doing it
at the store or our helpers aredoing it.
Multiple people are doing it,multiple people are doing it.
We're doing it from multipleplaces.
It's you know, you're orderingthis type of thing from this
(31:23):
place.
Maybe you're having proteinpowder, your kid's snacks,
everything is from differentplaces.
And then how many times haveyou started clicking through?
You do like an iHerb order andthen you're like, oh, I just
like forgot this one or twothings, and then you don't want
to do another order.
So organization in the kitchenis so useful for daily life and
(31:49):
for not wasting knowing what youhave, using what you have.
Hoiki Liu (31:55):
I think using what you have is very important.
Nassim Secci (31:57):
It really is, and so in your case it might be
getting a container that workslabeling things, because
sometimes it's hard to rememberwhere things are.
Even figuring out whatcategories you have within a
kitchen is difficult how do youcategorize this?
But once that is figured out,then you know exactly where you
(32:21):
know tomato sauces go and youcould just quickly go and check
if you have enough, yeah, andthen you're good.
You don't need to go buy sixmore cans because you don't want
to be in a bind on Sunday yes,but the next time when you
actually look for it and take itout, it's all expired.
Yes, exactly so, having thesesystems in place and the habits
(32:43):
that go with that system.
So you know, saying it could bethe first of the month, you
know our helper, like on thefirst of the month, will go and
check all the expiration dates.
Anything that is about toexpire kind of moves forward.
Or you know there are lots ofdifferent systems that you can
(33:04):
put in place.
Or, if you are a household thateats a lot of like pastas,
having the open ones in acertain spot Because sometimes
you go back and you find liketwo packs of open spaghetti and
they just don't add up.
Hoiki Liu (33:21):
Yes, exactly.
Nassim Secci (33:23):
Or you're mixing different kinds of pasta, which
is like a sin, according to myItalian husband.
Hoiki Liu (33:30):
Okay, so now that we've gone on to talk about the
stuff that they're getting ridof I'm sure there's a lot of it
what do you do with the thingsthat people don't want anymore?
Nassim Secci (33:49):
So it might feel like a sustainable practice,
like, oh, this is a top that Iwore outside.
It has a little stain, I'lljust wear it at home.
Now, I don't believe in that atall, like, I'm very much
against it.
I think, first of all, youprobably won't wear it at home
if you're not kind of in thehabit of it and, second of all,
if you're not going to wear itout, then why wear it at home?
(34:11):
For yourself, right?
It needs to be feel good foryou, right?
Regardless of whether otherpeople see it or not.
And so there's this bit of adilemma, right, where, like for
us, a successful declutteringsession is getting rid of more,
(34:32):
but then for a lot of people,that feels wasteful, so they
want to try to find ways toreuse or repurpose, and
ultimately, I think it justcreates a heavier load.
It's another to-do item, it'sanother, and so part of what I
want to do is try to find theright thing to do with those
(34:52):
items.
So, okay, let's just donate it.
I think a lot of people like toresell items, and that's an
honest conversation that I liketo have with clients, because I
think, frankly, for most thingsit's not worth the energy, the
time that it takes to post, andso it's trying to find kind of
(35:13):
smart shortcuts.
Is there a school that thesecould be donated to?
Or is there, like somebody inyour family that would, that
would use it and not to justpawn things off on other people
right, because that happens alot but to really come up with a
solution that is effective butquick and not, you know,
(35:37):
involving I'm going to sand thisdown and paint it, and some
people are, yeah, we'lldefinitely do that, but for most
people it's not going to happen, and so it's finding realistic
things that we can do.
Hoiki Liu (35:51):
I think in Hong Kong it's hard to expect that out of
a lot of people that live incities with a regular day-to-day
job, because the reason theygot here in the first place is
because they didn't feel likethey had that time and capacity.
Nassim Secci (36:05):
So to expect them to all of a sudden gain that
time and capacity, exactly.
It's not realistic.
It's not realistic.
I have a really reallypractical approach and so it's.
You know, it's totally fine toresell things.
Let's do it, and they're likegreat platforms out there to
(36:25):
help.
Hoiki Liu (36:27):
I've even seen you do it on your own Instagram with
large furniture pieces andthere's a few times where I was
like, oh yeah, but I was like,do I actually have the space?
Nassim Secci (36:37):
Yeah, so and so that's.
That's one of the kind of quick, easy solutions is we'll try to
just post it on, post it on ourstories.
We also have a WhatsApp groupRight and we'll just post it on
there.
And most of the time it's notfor free, because we want people
(37:00):
to want it and some people arekind of lured by the fact that
something is free, but we wantsomebody to come get it who is
going to pay, like you know 100Hong Kong dollars or you know
500 Hong Kong dollars orsomething that might have been
worth 50,000 Hong Kong dollars.
But the point is like rehomingand I love that.
(37:23):
I get such satisfaction fromthings getting rehomed and I'll
often get pictures from peoplewho have gotten the items and
even for donations.
So when we're donating, we justtake it with us immediately and
get it donated.
We will not leave it in yourhouse.
First of all, we don't want toadd to your to-do list.
(37:44):
Second of all, there's alwaysthe risk of somebody pulling
things back in there and pullingthings back out, and so we just
get it.
We get it donated for you.
But to also be very thoughtfulabout about the way we donate.
So there might be things thatwe're donating and they come in
(38:04):
multiple pieces, so putting in alittle bit of effort to tie
them all up in a bag and ifthere's like instructions,
instructions, maybe just stickthe instructions in there again.
It's just finding that rightbalance of practicality and, and
you know, usefulness right andso making sure we're not just
kind of that, we're donating ina respectful way.
(38:28):
And then there's some thingsthat is a bit borderline and
it's like unfortunately,unfortunately.
I don't think somebody canreuse this, so let's not you
know let's not donate the puzzlethat's missing two pieces.
Hoiki Liu (38:39):
You know it's like.
Oh well, you know, is the kidthat's gonna get it gonna be
happy or sad about this?
If he is really disrespectfulin some way.
Nassim Secci (38:48):
You don't want to frustrate a poor child that is
so excited to get this like pawpatrol puzzle and it's missing.
It's missing the pieces.
So what do we do if?
If on the box it says a 30piece puzzle, we don't sit there
and try to make the puzzle tosee if something's missing.
We just quickly count thepieces and then, okay, they're
only 28 here, it's a 30, it's a30 piece puzzle, so
(39:09):
unfortunately that that can't beused.
Hoiki Liu (39:13):
Yeah, I mean that that's the saying wish, uh, wish
cycling, which is like when yourecycle something, you don't
know what's happening to it orwhere it's gonna go.
You just wish that it'sactually going to go where it
should go.
Same thing with donations.
A lot of times, I think we'rewish donating, like we feel so
(39:33):
good about giving things away,but, yeah, you don't think about
like who's actually gonna getit.
Do they actually want it?
You know, is it respectful foryou to give, you know, certain
things away, like, like, like wesaid, like toys with missing
pieces, right, flows of stainsthat you can't remove, right?
Um, so I think we, we do needto be very realistic about that.
(39:54):
Yeah, bringing it back is whenthe clients see what you guys
are taking all these things away, are they, do they realize the
work that you guys still have todo when you leave with their,
their things that they don't nolonger want?
Or do they think, oh, it'sgreat, you're gonna donate
everything for us and I can goon a new cycle of of consumerism
(40:17):
now?
Or is it like, look guys, likethis is what you know, because
it's part of the habit buildingand practice like, like this is
what we've achieved, like thisis all the things that we're
saying goodbye to, and you know,how do you?
I guess, how?
How do I even put this?
Like, what is their thoughtprocess?
Are they like, oh great, I'mgoing to live more sustainably
(40:41):
now because, without we us evenusing that word it's just a
natural lifestyle change thatwas needed?
That's why you were called into begin with?
Yeah, or is it like, oh great,you know, I'm getting all of my
stuff like, let's buy again Iwould say, yeah, we don't.
Nassim Secci (40:58):
We don't discuss sustainability, we don't.
I don't see my role as kind ofschooling anybody.
Hoiki Liu (41:06):
I just find that a bit judgmental and I think,
counterproductive with whatyou're doing already without
having to call it out.
Nassim Secci (41:16):
That's exactly so.
I never, I never do that.
I think I I want to be reallyencouraging of people engaging
in the process and and doingtaking these steps to feel
better about their space, feelbetter about about themselves.
So there's never this kind oflike what are our lessons
(41:38):
learned?
No, but a very, very naturalbyproduct of what we do and you
can just see it in their facesis this realization, and for
everybody it's different.
But there is a realization of,okay, I just I bought a few too
many things, or, you know, Ishould be a bit more kind of
(42:01):
mindful about this, and so it isa very slow kind of, I think,
quiet realization.
And then for others it might bea bit heavier where they really
feel badly about it.
And what I say to that is wehave to be forward looking here.
It's not wasteful.
(42:22):
Today, where we're taking theitems for donation, or you know
we're trashing some items or youknow recycling some items, the
waste happened at the moment ofpurchase, when you bought
something that you thought youwere going to use and you never
ended up using or you bought toomuch.
That's when it happened.
(42:42):
So let's not carry that burdenon what's happening today.
Today we are lightening theload and then we just want to
take a lesson from that and justbe forward, looking forward and
a lot of it.
Hoiki Liu (42:56):
It just happens very, very organically is there also
things that people like you haveto get rid of because, like,
there is um missing pieces orthings, but then they actually
really like this puzzle, forexample, or they really like the
certain address, but now it'smissing some buttons or missing
(43:16):
a belt or something like that.
Like, is there things like thatthat happen, or is it usually
like, the things that they'regetting rid of is what they
absolutely don't?
Nassim Secci (43:25):
No, no, no, well, so those kinds of things come up
all the time, and so a part ofwhat we do is, well, we could
just change all of the buttons,and you know.
And then they might be like, ohyeah, I didn't think about that
, oh, that that's, that's a goodidea.
And then they have to thenthink okay, is the cost of
changing these buttons somethingthat I, you know, I want to
(43:47):
invest in?
Is this piece important enoughfor me?
And then they make the decisionthen.
And then there are a lot of us,you know, we have sentimental
things.
So, yeah, it might be a puzzlethat's missing pieces, but it
was something that was maybepassed down in the family and we
want to keep, and so we cankeep it.
(44:08):
But we put it in a nice likesentimental box or in a
memorabilia box and we keep it.
And and then now you have adesignated place to put those
sorts of things.
Hoiki Liu (44:20):
I guess it helps people recognize like the things
, like things will deteriorate,they will break, like things
that matter to you.
You should be organized aboutit, because when you're, when
you're neat and tidy, thelongevity of these things are
just, it's just gonna lastlonger.
Nassim Secci (44:35):
Totally, there are these very practical elements
of oh, there were bags that werestuffed at the back of my
wardrobe and they've gone moldybecause I didn't even remember
that they were there, and so youare going to preserve your
things better.
If your space is organized, ifyour things are accessible,
(44:55):
visible, then you're going touse it, and that ultimately,
like what is more sustainablethan that Consuming and using
the things that you havepurchased?
Hoiki Liu (45:05):
I do want to talk about one more thing, actually,
when we're talking about theclitorate and the things that
you donate, I remember there wasone time you hosted a
secondhand sale in Tycoon, sothat was a very I mean I assume
those things were all from yourcustomers.
Did you collect them for themfor a period of time and then
you host it as an annual thing,or what was that all?
Nassim Secci (45:28):
about.
So yeah, so kind of going backto this idea of how do we, where
does this stuff go, right, andwanting to be practical about it
.
And you know, just very kind ofrealistic about the approach.
So there are lots of thingsthat you can donate, but then
there's certain things that justdon't make sense to donate.
For a lot of clients it's reallygreat pieces that are almost
(45:56):
new, and so you know, we workwith a lot of secondhand
platforms like Hula, but eventhese guys are getting
completely bombarded with stock,and so you know, normally I
would just go to them and say,can we sell these items with you
?
And they, they can't take somuch of it.
(46:20):
So then I thought, ok, let me,let me try to organize something
.
And so I was.
I was kind of doing it one offand then we just had so much
that I thought, all right, let'sorganize a sale.
And that was really fun.
We sold a lot of great piecesand we're still doing it.
(46:41):
It's going to be an ongoingthing because there is this
problem right of where does thisstuff go?
And so if you price it well,but people are still paying for
it, they're paying for somethingthat they still love.
They're still being thoughtfulabout it, trying it on.
Is this something I'm going towear, something I'm going to use
(47:02):
?
But then they feel greatbecause they're getting it at
such a deal, so it's a win-win.
And then our clients feel goodbecause they are getting a
little bit bad for it.
Hoiki Liu (47:14):
but then it's getting rehomed and it's being done in
a really thoughtful way, thefeeling that it's no longer a
wish donation, but like itactually got cycled back into
somebody's life cycle.
Nassim Secci (47:26):
Exactly, and then and then there are people who
will send me pictures of themusing the pieces and it's just,
I don't know it.
It's so.
It's such a great feeling.
Yeah, see that right, andthey're so excited, so it's,
it's great, it's part of it'spart of this ecosystem of ours,
right?
I mean I would love to be ableto match people and kind of
(47:46):
rehome things and, and we dothat, I mean it's and I think
it's it's.
Hoiki Liu (47:51):
It's been harder for Hong Kong to pick up, but it's
actually going to be part of myfuture segments, talking about
more secondhand buying andreusing and sharing even sharing
platforms.
I think it's something thatit's definitely something that
it's going to be around for thefuture.
(48:13):
A secondhand shop.
Nassim Secci (48:14):
I think so and I think there's still.
There's a little bit of shametied to it, and there's also a
little bit of shame tied topeople using professional
organizers.
So, you know, it's veryinteresting, but I don't think
there should be any.
I think it's great to buysecondhand.
Hoiki Liu (48:33):
Yeah, if it's something you love, that you
would, you know, purchase atfull price, like you know, truly
use, and I think this is why alot of like what we're doing and
this generation is about isbreaking the old cycles of the
way we see things, the way wesaw shame, the way we saw
success even it's notnecessarily what we need going
(48:55):
forward Totally, I think,especially when it comes to
getting help for doing somethinglike this.
Nassim Secci (49:01):
For a lot of people, they think, well, it's
so simple, I should be able todo this on my own, and there is
a lot of social pressure that,oh well, just you know, just
just whip it up, just organizeit yourself, just declutter
yourself, and I I think that youknow delegating outsourcing
(49:23):
you're gonna get it done faster,you're gonna get get it done
better, and instead of agonizingfor months and months and
months and living in this waytrying to convince yourself that
it's okay to get help, you justget it done.
Hoiki Liu (49:35):
Yeah, and you're living in a really peaceful home
, yeah and it's not necessarilyeven just, uh, when you live
with other people and families.
I find often it might beactually when you're living
alone because you don't havethat.
You don't have anybody elsethat you need to answer to about
your home, so you can reallylet that anxiety grow.
Um, I almost feel like it'swhen I got married that me and
(49:58):
my husband got more organizedbecause we have to be respectful
towards each other, right?
So, yeah, I think for anybodyand everybody, like, really
think about it.
If you need someone to helpclear your space so you can
clear your mind, please get thatdone.
I'm gonna share your handlesand your contacts at the end of
this podcast and also I'm gonnaneed to ask you to update us
(50:22):
when you have those secondhandsales so I can promote it to our
customers.
Sure, definitely very much foryour time today.
Thank you, this was fun, thankyou.
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