Taylor, Christa, Sharon, Kevin, Cody, Andrea Joy

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_07 (00:00):
It is important to talk about money with other
creatives.
It is absolutely this like, oh,if you talk about money, then
it's because you sold out andyou're only concerned about
getting paid.
Pay artists.
We are small businessesourselves.
It is a job.
It is a career.
It is an absolute legitimate wayto pay your bills, to pay your

(00:20):
mortgage, buy a car, pay foryour kid's college.
It is not a hobby.
Just because we enjoy what wedo, that just means we're
fortunate.
That doesn't mean it's not ajob.

SPEAKER_00 (00:29):
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (00:30):
Welcome back to the podcast where creative minds
break down walls and buildsomething unforgettable.
This week I'm joined by sixincredible guests.
Taylor Kibbe is the GM ofOmaha's iconic Alice and Wicked
Rabbit bars.
Krista Schissel is a weddingphotographer and portrait

(00:52):
photographer with a sharp eyefor detail and emotions.
We'll be right back.

UNKNOWN (01:28):
Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 (01:30):
I honestly cannot thank you enough for taking time
out of your day to, you know,come and chat with us.
I got to give a shout out to myguy, Tay.
Taylor.
Tay.
We call him Swifty.
T-Bone.
T-Bone.
That was prior.

(01:50):
He's the general manager here atAlice.
Alice is a maiden social companybrand, if you will.
If you've been to Wicked Rabbitor Buried Rye via Farina
Lackalona.

SPEAKER_02 (02:03):
There

SPEAKER_04 (02:04):
you go.
So really cool that you let ususe the venue for

SPEAKER_02 (02:09):
this little conversation.
Oh, thank you guys for being

SPEAKER_04 (02:12):
here.
You know, honestly, the purposeof this, I was thinking in my
head, I was watching one ofthose Hollywood reporter, you
know, when everybody gets on around table, some of the most
interesting people in the world,right?
But We have a lot of those here,I believe.
I think there's just a lot,we're just not world known.
And so I was just like, whydon't we get something local

(02:34):
like that, figure something out,we can shoot in a cool venue, we
can give some love to localentrepreneurs, local businesses,
things like that.
And I was just like, I alwayscome up with like these
creative, I don't come up with,I always get creative blocked.
It's sort of like writer'sblock, right?
And so I'm like, what do I do?
Well, I don't reach out.
So I actually, like I've talkedto Andrea Joy several times and

(02:56):
I talked to my guy Nate who'sbehind the camera and Matt and
I've worked with him.
And, you know, I just was like,you know, what if I just had
them all in the room?
So just put people that you kindof admire from afar that you
don't know, have a conversationwith and figure it out because
we're all, you know, we've all,you know, at different places in
our careers, but we're all kindof in the same ecosystem.

(03:16):
So that was really it.
And that's why I reached out toyou guys on IGN and said, let's
get a group together and let'shave a conversation.
So the fact that you guys wereall down, I love it.
And I think everybody here has adifferent thing, believe it or
not.
I don't know if he has anartistic bone in his body, but
he's very creative behind thebar.
No, I'm just kidding.
I'm picking on you a lot, man.

(03:36):
But so real quick, I'll justintroduce myself.
I'm Chad.
I'm a filmmaker, videographer,content creator.
Was born in Omaha, lived insmall town Nebraska.
I've traveled the world.
I wish I could travel more.
I've got to, I've lived in NewYork.
I've lived in Los Angeles.
I've studied film.

(03:57):
I've studied acting.
I was an actor for a while.
And I moved back here in 2010.
Started working at M's Pub.
And that's where I met a ton ofcreative people.
And I started getting kind ofcreative with, I thought maybe
the bar thing was for me.
And then I started kind of like,you know, filming myself doing
it and all this stuff.
And I was like, maybe I do wantto get back into editing and
post-production and all thatstuff.

(04:18):
And so I started doing a littlepost-production stuff for a
local company here.
And I started kind of growingand growing.
I was like, maybe I want to getbehind the camera and test some
stuff.
So that's kind of what happened.
And I started my own thing in2019.
And since then, things have gonereally well.
But, you know, you always hit,blocks.
And it's like, okay, where do Igo next?
So that's kind of what led me towanting to sit down with some

(04:40):
people that are really killingit here locally.
So I guess we'll just kind of godown the line here and give me
an idea of what you do, who youare.
A little introduction.
Krista, why don't you start?
Oh, snap.
You guys, pick on

SPEAKER_05 (04:57):
me.
No.
Well, I'm Krista.
Hi, Krista.
Hey, Krista.
I'm Krista Schissel.
I am based out of Lincoln.
I am a professor weddingphotographer and portrait
photographer.
I shot my first wedding in highschool.
I've been a photographer eversince then and really just
decided in 2020 that I was goingto niche down into wedding

(05:20):
photography and take thisbusiness full-time because I'd
been doing it for so long, wasso scared for years and years
and years to make the leap.
Nate, help me.
Nate, hi.
So yeah, That's kind of whereI'm at.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_07 (05:35):
I love it.
My name is Sharon Manhart.
I'm a traditional sign and muralpainter.
I started painting signs when Iwas in high school.
My first job out of high schoolwas working at a grocery store
for five years doing all oftheir advertising in the shop.
And then I tattooed for fiveyears and then I worked a
million other random jobs to tryto survive.
But every job I worked, I wouldalways end up making the signs

(05:57):
for whatever place I worked.
So after I was working forAutumn Pruitt, Hardy College,
She took advantage of me wantingto do those things.
I was able to do some work forher there.
That spiraled into doing somework for other local breweries
and restaurants and stuff.
So I've been on my own full timefor probably about 13 or 14

(06:20):
years, hand painting signs andmurals all over town.
I love the blend of fine art andgraphic design.
So I feel like murals, publicart, and hand-painted signs are
a great marriage of all of that.
So that's my story.
And my husband works with me,too.

SPEAKER_00 (06:38):
You've got to give him some love.
He's wonderful.
He's always like, what?

UNKNOWN (06:45):
Kevin.

SPEAKER_01 (06:45):
My name is Kevin Kabor.
I'm a photographer andvideographer.
I'm creative.
I make a lot of stuff for socialmedia.
I consider myself a middle childbecause I do a lot of online
content creation, but then I getto work with higher production
stuff.
I was born in Burkina Faso, WestAfrica.
My dad was a videographer anddid a lot of...

(07:08):
documentaries and my mom was aprofessional editor so like
growing up just i just alwayshad like a camera in my hand
yeah i didn't have a choice andi have just been making stuff
that's

SPEAKER_04 (07:19):
cool that's awesome yeah love love the stuff that
you're creating man i mean i'veseen some growth too it's

SPEAKER_03 (07:29):
um i'm cody jones uh i found filmmaking through
photography.
I started with photography, andI thought I wanted to be a
photographer, and it just feltreally lone wolf for me.
I'd always really loved groupprojects throughout school.
Every time the teacher was like,find a group of four, I was
like, yes! Geek.

(07:53):
But nobody else liked being in agroup project in school.
And I kind of missed that, andlooking at a career in
photography, I I just kind ofsaw myself working, you know,
mostly solo to do art.
And that started to really kindof bum me out.
And then I was sitting in themovie theater and the credits
scroll and there's hundreds ofnames.

(08:15):
I was like, there it is.
There's the team.
That's the group project.
So, and it's image making, whichI did really truly love
photography, but I just, Iwanted to do it with people and
collaborate.
And so since then I was like, Igot to do filmmaking.
So now I do, a very silly,unique role called digital
imaging technician within thecamera department for narrative

(08:37):
and television and commercial.
Why is it silly?
What are you talking about?
It's just like...
You said a

SPEAKER_04 (08:41):
bunch of words that I

SPEAKER_03 (08:44):
need a PhD to understand.
That's what I'm saying.
It's complicated.
I also do color forpost-production as well.
Those two roles...
I think that's how I know you.
I know you as a colorist.
Colorist, yes.
So...
It's

SPEAKER_06 (08:58):
awesome.
Very cool.
And I will say, I love a groupproject.
I love group creative projects.
And I like to say I'm a creativewho loves to work with
creatives.
And how do we make that a goodtime?
But I'm Andrea Joy Pearson.
I'm the founder of a spacecalled Joy Brings Light.
In that it's a leadershipdevelopment company.

(09:18):
I think we all get theopportunity to be leaders in our
own lives.
I'm a nationally recognizedspeaker, facilitator, creator.
director.
I feel like I'm leavingsomething off.
Oh yeah, strategic advisor.
In that, particularly for mycreative art side, I am a sound

(09:41):
healer.
I do traditional sound healingand experimental sound.
I'm a visual artist and youheard me say creative director.
I really just like to say, howdo we all bring the uniqueness,
the special vibe that we eachhave and let our minds express
together to to tell a story, tosay something special and to do

(10:01):
something special in real time.
Love it.
It's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 (10:05):
I'm Taylor Kibbe.
I've been doing this for about20 years now.
Bartended in LA, Chicago,Mexico, Puerto Rico, and then
now Omaha, Nebraska as well.
We're part of Maven Social, sowe own multiple bars here in
town, but primarily we've gotthe top-end restaurants and
top-end bars in the entire city.
Again, we really do like gettingall the community together as
well, too, so we definitelyappreciate you guys being here

(10:25):
and asking us to go ahead and dothis.
Any sort of local business,obviously, to support the
community.
That's the best way to go aheadand continue business.
It's a beautiful space.
It's absolutely gorgeous.

SPEAKER_04 (10:40):
Yeah.
We, uh, you know, that was, thatwas probably the main thing that
made me go like, okay, thiscould work.
Like if we get everybodytogether and we do it in a
different spot at each time, itkind of gives people, uh, you
know, um, maybe they, they go toa space they haven't either been
in a while or have never been.
And they get an opportunity tobe like, all right, like I got

(11:01):
to tell my friends about this.
It's cool.
So it gives them some.
That's great.
Right.
Yeah, for sure, for sure.
Yeah, thanks again, guys.
So I guess a few questions,like, so, and this is open
discussion now at this point,and we all cross talk, you know,
just talk to me.
I'm not like, I'm not the host.
I'm just a cog, right, in themachine.

(11:22):
But, you know, so lately,though, I've just kind of been,
what are people doing, you know,for, you know, I call it
creative block.
How do you get out of that?
How do you hammer through that?
I mean, Kevin, I've seen youdo...
I saw your work and you werealso behind the camera and

(11:42):
you've lately started gettingkind of in front of the camera
and kind of inspired me to belike, yeah, I gotta do that too.
Why do you think that wasimportant for you?

SPEAKER_01 (11:52):
Well, I feel like I've always done it, but I just
didn't post it.
I just didn't like it.
I wasn't confident and then Iwas like, I'm very competitive,
so I play basketball growing up.
I was like, I'm nicer than thesepeople.
And they just don't care.
So I was like, okay, I justgotta not care a little bit.
I was like, my haircut was bad,and I was like, maybe I
shouldn't post it.

(12:14):
It would be like dumb things.
I get it.

SPEAKER_04 (12:16):
That's perfectionism.
Anybody else?
How do you...
I just, I don't know.
I know, you know, filmmaking,photography, things like that.
But like, you know, tell meabout like what, with what you
do.
Like I'm, I don't know anythingabout it.

SPEAKER_07 (12:32):
As far as what I do, it can be very isolating when
you're just creating somethingby yourself, because if you're
not filming somebody else, likethis is something you at least
have one other person that thisis bouncing off of.
But if you're just painting awall, you're literally just you
right there, six inches fromyour face, painting a wall.
It's very isolating.
It's very on your own.
As everybody said in ourintroductions, though, it's

(12:56):
about collaboration.
So the way I've I one of thenumber one things I hate in a
creative community isgatekeeping.
So my my mission, my soapbox isabout educating artists about
the business side of being acreative.
So when I'm struggling withcoming up for a layout or what

(13:17):
content is going to be in amural, I have multiple group
chats that i can just say heythis is a picture of the wall
this is what the client's likeit's a small town but we want to
do something that's a little bitedgier but not so much so that
all ages aren't going to enjoyit so reaching out to your
community and saying like whatwhat envelope like what edges

(13:39):
can i push here but still keepthis so just reaching out to
community and having thoseconversations with others is how
i get through that i don't knowwhat to do right here when
you're holding a pencil and apiece of paper and you're just
stuck Community is everything.

SPEAKER_03 (13:53):
100%.

SPEAKER_07 (13:54):
Yeah.
But nurturing those communityrelationships because if you
want to just be yourself in astudio working by yourself, you
don't have that community andyou're only hurting yourself.
Like everybody loses when youisolate yourself.
Sure.
So nurture.

SPEAKER_06 (14:11):
I think, so two things.
I think community is everything,right?
And one, I like to say you areyour first community.
But inside of that I think therelease of perfection is really
important so like just to likejump back to what Kevin was
talking about of saying like ohI make all this stuff but how

(14:33):
much actually gets seen byothers and I think that's
probably true for majority ofcreatives I might even say a lot
of us here they're like we makemore than what people see right
and it's that release of theperfection in trying to show up
a particular type of way orsomething that I struggle with
is always wanting to make surethings are really high quality

(14:54):
right and in that being able tosay it's okay people are pulling
out their phones like getting onjust in the car you know no
production like any of this andsaying it's okay for me not to
be perfect and that in itself isbeautiful right and also taking
on a mindset something thathelps me at times is taking on a
mindset of being iterationfocused so like I'm not focused

(15:17):
on how do I make this thingperfect I'm focused on how do I
just have a whole lot ofiterations and know that for me
to get to the more perfect whichdoesn't exist, right?
But like the highest quality, Ijust need to go through a bunch
of iterations.
So it's like, okay, boom, boom,boom, boom, boom, boom.
I'm not even going to worryabout really how it's looking

(15:37):
for real, for real, until wemaybe get to the eighth or ninth
iteration.
You and I are a lot alike that.

SPEAKER_04 (15:43):
Yeah, it keeps you productive.
I'm version one through 20.
Yeah.
And sometimes it's version twothat work.
But I got to get to 20 to go,man, if I didn't try that, like,
how am I supposed to know?
You know, I've got to switch itover here.
it takes a lot of time, right?
Krista's like, she knows, Ithink she knows well enough to
be like, why are we doing thisagain?
You know, it's like, we've shotsome weddings together where

(16:04):
it's like, I need another take.
But yeah.
No, but see, I'm like,

SPEAKER_06 (16:08):
no, take that first and second take and we out.
Like, it's going to work.
Like, that's just the iterationof that.
Like, it'll be better six monthsfrom now, but like, I'm not
going to try to be that.
I'm just going to try to be whatI can be right now.
And like, I think people likeauthenticity.
So like, it doesn't have to beperfect.
So it's like, we got three takesof this and that's it.
And that's it.
Like, let's just get to the nextthing.

SPEAKER_04 (16:30):
Like, yeah.
Yeah.
I feel the same way.
Tell me about, uh, the, thewedding photography business,
you know, so.
When I first was doing it, I waslike, okay, I think photography
is the way to go.
You know, and Nate and I werejust like, man, photos are so
much better, man.
The video, it's crazy.
Yeah, you get 2,000 photos, but,you know, you cull it down to
about 400 and you're good to go.

(16:51):
Like, video can take, like,months for me to get through,
like, a wedding film.
It can take a long time.
You got to make it pretty, youknow.
Music takes me the damn longestbecause you got to get the, you
know, the license stuff and allthis other stuff.
It's like, man, music takesforever.

UNKNOWN (17:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (17:04):
Tell me, how do you think from when you started the
wedding photography businesssort of evolved and like, where
are you in that sort of thatcommunity?
Because she just won a big, youkind of won a big award.

SPEAKER_05 (17:22):
Well, I don't know.
Like there's just, everything isso like, ever-changing and
evolving in the weddingindustry.
And I think it's reallyimportant to just be curious,
try new things.
And that's kind of what helps mecultivate the new ideas and just
new equipment, that sort ofthing.
Being able to just, I don'tknow, being agile and flexible

(17:44):
and not being closed-minded hasreally helped me throughout, I
guess, this process.

SPEAKER_04 (17:50):
Tell us about this best of that you recently
received, this big award.

SPEAKER_05 (17:56):
Man.

SPEAKER_04 (17:56):
Not to ruin the...
Okay,

SPEAKER_05 (17:58):
okay.
No.
Tell us about it.
So, let's see.
You've been nominated on...
Okay, I'm Lincoln Choice Awardwinner for Best of Wedding
Photography.
I've won it...
Don't be modest.
Three years now.
Oh, wow.
So, yeah, and then...
And then one year got third.

(18:19):
So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (18:20):
She did our, uh, my wife and I's wedding in
Colorado.
And, uh, we just, I mean, we gotthem hung up on our, our, now we
have a baby and she goes throughall of our photos.
It's really fun.
I think it pissed every time.
Cause it's like, you know, I hadsuch a, I had such a really nice
time and a good moment.
Nate was there too.
He did the video.
Uh, but, um, well, yeah, no,I've, I've always kind of like,

(18:43):
every time I've worked in, it'slike, you're so, you know, how,
when, you know, things get,Okay.
you know, there's a lot of onthe fly.

SPEAKER_05 (18:50):
Yep.

SPEAKER_04 (18:51):
Because things happen, there's rain, you know,
there's things you can't, can't,you know, plan for.
But your creative process ingetting there, like tell me a
little bit about how you kindof, because everything is so
different.
Like, what do you, how do youplan?
Do you have a plan going in orare you more of a, let's fly by
the seat of our pants?

SPEAKER_05 (19:09):
No, no, no, no.
There's a game plan that we planmonths in advance.
But obviously it never goes asplanned.
Because there's alwayssomething, like a bride either
like getting the reception venueready and not where they need to
be or just something happens.
And it's to be expected.
There's moving parts.
And I think just being flexibleand being able to fly by the

(19:31):
seat of your pants on a weddingday if something needs to
switch.
Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 (19:35):
And so like, you know, on the aspect of
community, even though you'retechnically, it's you doing it,
it's your mind, it's yourcreative process.
What has the community sort oflike, how has it sort of...
helped you articulate yourvision?
Like, cause I'm sure you borrowstuff from other creators that

(19:56):
you just, I mean, fromcompositions to different
things.
I mean, there's gotta be,there's gotta be some things.

SPEAKER_05 (20:00):
Yeah.
There's definitely some thingsthat inspire me to try new
things.
Like last week, TikTok inspiredme to try like off camera flash
with a trigger and like do that.
And so I've been learning thatand it's been a lot of fun.
Did it

SPEAKER_04 (20:15):
work out for you?

SPEAKER_05 (20:16):
Yeah.

UNKNOWN (20:16):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (20:17):
I'm pretty excited to start implementing

SPEAKER_04 (20:19):
it.
So

SPEAKER_05 (20:20):
yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (20:20):
It just kind of creates like some different sort
of dramatic shadows and thingslike

SPEAKER_05 (20:24):
that.
Yep.
It changes where the shadows endup landing on like usually
behind your subject.
So they're not as prominent inthe shot and just kind of gives
it more of a, I don't know ifI'd say paparazzi effect, but
just kind of, I don't know, asofter shadow.
So

SPEAKER_04 (20:41):
yeah.
You know, I think, so I used tobartend and jump to Taylor here
for a second.
I used to bartend and it wouldget so busy and people were just
like, they'd come to the bar andthey didn't want something fancy
and all that stuff.
I'd whip it together real quick.
How'd you do that so fast?
It's repetition, the wholething.

(21:03):
I always felt like I was almostgoing, you know, too fast.
Like I was taking the art out ofit because I was just trying to
get it done.
I was trying to get step one,two, three, four, get in front
of the person.
So I get to the next, you know,and you know, where you are at
this level, you know, I've spentsome time here.
It is.
Art.
This is not the type ofbartending I did.

(21:24):
Like you guys are putting inlike, what's the smoke bubble?
There's some wild stuff.
I did a bunch of content forthem recently and man, we did
some really cool things.
We got things on fire, we'resmoking stuff.
why do you think that sort ofthe bar business has kind of
moved into that sort of like, weneed to kind of, you know, we

(21:46):
need to set ourselves apart.
Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 (21:49):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, that's the biggest thing.
What I always tell everybody issmall tears.
You can buy a bottle of JackDaniel and have a great night.
1599.
I've been there.
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (22:00):
When

SPEAKER_02 (22:01):
you go to the bar, I mean, you're looking for
experience.
You're looking for camaraderie.
You're looking to go ahead andmake memories and possibly drink
enough to forget all thosememories.
Yeah.
But when you go out to a bar, Imean, you are going out for the
experience.
You're paying for thatexperience, for that
camaraderie, for everythingthat's around you, for the
scene, for everything elsethat's going on as well, too.
The bar industry definitely haskicked up quite substantially

(22:22):
over the last 10 years.
A lot of that has been due tosocial media aspects and stuff
like that as well, too.
The nice part about thebartending industry now is back
in the day when I started this20 years ago, I mean, there was
bar books and there was abouttwo different companies.
Like, Death& Co.
was one of the only companies,only bars in the entire United
States that made a book of theirrecipes so there's one place so
I had books and books and booksof cocktails just the

(22:46):
garnishments the liquor that gointo them and now everything's
just at your handheld you cansee what New York City's doing
what LA's doing what Japan'sdoing what everyone else is
doing all across the entireworld all at the same time and
that's definitely the fun partof creativity as well too that
everything's there and that'salso the problem is you can do
anything you want so you gottafigure out where to start and

(23:06):
what's attainable my wholebiggest thing is problem
solutions and deadlines.
That's kind of what we're doinghere and here as well, too.
Creativity and problem solutionis the exact same thing.
For a wedding, you have thewedding person that's like, make
me look pretty, but not toopretty.
I want you here.
Never.

(23:29):
We've got to figure out whatthey want.

SPEAKER_06 (23:31):
We've

SPEAKER_02 (23:34):
got to figure out what they want.
Of course, going to the deadlineIt's like you say as well.
It's like going fast.
I mean, there's always a goodsolution, a better solution, a
best solution.
And it's got to be figured out,like, what's the deadline?
Do they want this cocktail intwo minutes or do they want this
cocktail in 15 minutes and I cango ham in that cocktail?

SPEAKER_04 (23:56):
Yeah, I think, like...
the first drink I think I everhad here, it was like on fire
and smoking and like, and I wasjust like, it tastes amazing,
but I'm like, I don't want todrink it.
It's too, you know, it's like,it's like a piece of art, you
know what I mean?
There is

SPEAKER_07 (24:10):
like painting over your beautiful.
Recently.

SPEAKER_04 (24:13):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (24:13):
Uh, we just went to, I went to a convention in
Cincinnati, which was a 50thanniversary of the letterheads
meetings, which is basicallylike old school lettering
artists started getting ittogether 50 years ago.
But there was about 600 peoplein this, um, sign you in
Cincinnati, Ohio and one of thethings that one of the mural
artists said there was sometimesyou sign the mural and sometimes

(24:35):
you sign the check becausesometimes you're so proud of the
creation that you've made thatyou're signing that art and you
want to be related to it andsometimes you're just signing
the check and it's about justproducing like sometimes you're
just passing some Bud Lights andthat's all they want and you're
just cashing the check you'resigning the check exactly so
it's you have to understandingyour customer do they want you

(24:58):
creating a custom experience ordo they just need you to
literally get that sign up rightnow and just get

SPEAKER_06 (25:04):
it done?
That's a good point.
One of the things that I want totalk about with that in
particular is I think that's,that's what is a big separating
factor between people who do itas a hobby and people who do it
as a profession, right?
Because like when you're doingit as a profession, you're
taking in more and your outputhas to be higher.
And you are also a lot of timesyou were in the space that not

(25:27):
only am I pleasing myself i alsohave to please the person who is
signing the check on the otherside and so that means like
there's a level of releasethat's there and a level of
open-mindedness andopen-heartedness and also
deadlines right so like you youhave to be able to do a solid
churn and to be able to listento what other people are asking
for and to be able toregurgitate that back out

(25:50):
visually or sound wise orengineering wise or lighting
lighting light the lightningwise, right?
Whatever that looks like, right?
Versus if you're doing it as ahobby, you can sit and work on
that, you know, that one thingthat you're doing for three
years if you want to.
You know, you did 75 iterationsin the background that nobody

(26:10):
saw.
Whereas like if you're doing itas a profession, you got to get
this done in three weeks.
And like, not only does it haveto be done, it has to be done to
your liking and theirs at thesame time.

SPEAKER_04 (26:19):
Do you think that there is a sort of as an artist,
do you ever find, okay, whendoes that art then become
someone else's.
In other words, because they payfor it, do they own it now?
I mean, they do, but that art,you know, you paint something
and you put a signature there.
Is that another conversation?
Is that something different?
That's a whole

SPEAKER_07 (26:36):
other conversation.
That's a

SPEAKER_03 (26:38):
contractual issue.
I just want to jump in reallyquick.
I love that you said you signedthe check or you signed the art.
Ours is one for the meal, onefor the reel.

SPEAKER_07 (26:45):
Nice.

SPEAKER_03 (26:45):
Okay.
There you go.
Look at

SPEAKER_07 (26:48):
that.

SPEAKER_03 (26:49):
I don't know.
It's just going to be a fun

SPEAKER_04 (26:54):
little thing.
Yeah, kind of tell me, I wasthinking like, you know, you've
got a Van Gogh here and it'sbeen purchased a gazillion
times, sits in a museum.
Whose is it?
Is it Van Gogh's or is it themuseum's or is it us?
Whose is it?
Who owns it?

SPEAKER_07 (27:10):
In our experience, that's going to be a contractual
issue that you have to discusswith your client.
Because if there are people thatif you create a logo and paint
it on the wall for a business,you still own the creative
rights to that.
They own the sign that's on thewall.
So if they want to put that logothat you created on T-shirts, on

(27:30):
hats, you have to then sign alicense and contract so that you
release the ownership of that.
And there could be stipulationsof you can use this for five
years.
You can only use this for suchand And I've done that with
other local graphic designersthat I've hired them to design
an image and they gave me twoyears to print t-shirts with
that image on it.
But then after that, I wouldhave to re-up the contract.

(27:52):
So you own what you create untilit's purchased as a free use for
whatever they want.
like then that has to be a wholenother conversation.

SPEAKER_04 (28:01):
Now, Krista, if you had an issue with that before
with copier, like people takingyour images and then just like
printing them off themselves andlike not paying the, because I
thought that there was an issuewhere they didn't, they wanted
to go save some money.
And they just wanted the digitalimages, but not print them.
But they printed them anyway.
I thought there was something.

SPEAKER_05 (28:19):
Not with, no, I don't think I've had that issue.
So in my contracts with myclients, it's like a personal
licensing agreement.
So they can use those photos forany like personal use.
Now, I obviously still hold thecopyrights.
And I think that's kind ofconfusing for most people.
But it just

SPEAKER_04 (28:40):
kind of.
Does it change your editing andstuff like that?
Has it ever been an issue wherethey like throw filters on it
when you post it?

SPEAKER_05 (28:45):
I've seen it happen to other photographers.
Back when I was more of ahobbyist, it's happened to
myself, but I didn't really havea good set contract in place.
So it wasn't really

SPEAKER_07 (28:55):
something that we...
I think something along thelines with that.
So like if a client had photosthat you took of their wedding
and then someone that had apublication, then ask the bride
if they could use that photo ina magazine without asking you.
That would be the issue.
Because then it's more of a...
Personal use

SPEAKER_04 (29:16):
free, but professional use free.
It's important to protectyourself in

SPEAKER_07 (29:18):
that way.
And make sure you get credit foranything that you create.
That is such an important thing.
I work with Arielle a lot withLouis Creative House.
And if she will link me in a lotof her reels, because I'll help
with the painting process, but Iwould never take one of her
photos that she's taken of meworking and not credit her once
I share it.

(29:39):
So if you're, whether I'm at oneof your events or whether I'm
sharing a photo that you took,all always make sure credit the
creatives.
I mean, just tag them somewherein it.
It doesn't have to be a wholediatribe, but just make sure
that people know I got thisdrink.
It was here.
This is who made it.
This is the umbrella group.

SPEAKER_04 (29:56):
And this has been a PSA.

SPEAKER_07 (29:58):
Yes.

SPEAKER_04 (30:01):
Give artists their

SPEAKER_06 (30:03):
credits.
It's how you honor people.
So there's a couple of thingsthat I kind of want to jump in
that we just talked about, butlet me start where we were and
then kind of go back a littlebit.
So one of them being is that toany of the artists and creatives
that are out here.
be willing to advocate foryourself you deserve to have

(30:24):
credit you deserve to feel goodabout what it is that
particularly again if you aregiving it to another entity that
you feel good about what ishappening to it now and what's
going to happen to it in thefuture and to make sure that you
advocate that your name iscontinually attached to it and
it's okay to say hey i only wantto give this up for a year or i

(30:45):
want to give you rights to thisfor five years right so that you
you make sure that someone's notjust getting something forever
and they paid you five dollarsfor it so be willing to advocate
for yourself it's not always themost comfortable thing to do
reach out to other creatives whoare in some of the same spaces
that you're in or reach out tojust other creatives that you

(31:06):
know and ask them how theynavigate those conversations or
how they build out theircontracts because as you
continue to do it know that thatpeople in the background who do
it regularly are advocating forcertain things to be put into
place and you deserve that aswell because you deserve to feel
good about your art now andmoving forward and so then the

(31:27):
second thing that I wanted to goback to was actually something
Taylor was talking about whenpeople are coming in for the
drinks and what it is is likeyou know you can just buy a
bottle somewhere or you can comehere and you're coming for the
experience is I think you knowso in that space you're going to
say I'm a strategic advisor anda lot of that is around culture
and experience design and Ithink everyone wants an

(31:48):
experience dance.
Right.
And I think that's whatseparates us from computers is
that like, we want to have anexperience.
We want to, to feel something.
People will always remember whatthey saw or what they heard, but
they often will remember howthey feel and how they felt.
Right.
And so it's like, how do youcreate experiences in whatever

(32:10):
it is that you are making thatyou are putting out that people
feel something.
And so one of like, when I'mcreative directing, one of the
first things, and like, not evenjust creative creative director
with teams, for me, if I'mcreating something, the first
question that has to be asked ishow do we want people to feel?
Before we make anything, beforewe talk about any colors, any

(32:32):
light, any sounds, anything, anyscript, it has to be how do we
want people to feel?
feel.
That puts a purpose behind yourproject.
Yeah.
Because people want anexperience.

SPEAKER_04 (32:46):
So then your art or your creation, it's not
necessarily then, you know,yours.
I mean, it's yours, right?
Because you're creating it, butyou're

SPEAKER_06 (32:57):
giving it.
If

SPEAKER_04 (32:57):
you're giving it, you're giving it.
But it's also,

SPEAKER_06 (33:00):
right.
If you're giving it, you'regiving it.
And you have to accept that.
Again, if you are making it foryourself, it's all about you.
But

SPEAKER_04 (33:09):
there are artists out there that really will make
something.
It's like, I don't care what therest of the world thinks of it.
I'm going to go out there and doa selfish thing for myself and
people will just buy it becauseI am who I am.
And I mean, if that's the way itis, that's the way it is.
I mean, you're lucky like thator whatever.
But...
Partially though.
I mean, I think there's truth tothat because I can say, for me,
you heard

SPEAKER_06 (33:28):
me say, my company's called Joy Brings Light.
Ultimately, a lot of times, Iwant people to feel joy in some
capacity.
100%.
But I can't control whether ornot that's what the...
outcome is.
So I could say, say I'm, I'mgoing to, uh, for me as a sound
healer, I'm going in to curate asound healing session and mine

(33:48):
are highly curated andintentional.
And I will always ask anyclients when I sit down, what's
going on with your team, like sothat I can, can build back.
And I might say, okay, thisteam, there's a lot of strife
that's happening here.
I want them to feel connectedand I want them to feel seen.
And so I'm curating with that inmind, but I can't control if

(34:09):
that's actually like the outcomethat other people feel that's
not my job though either andthat's where some of that like
release has to happen and evenlike going all the way back to
what Kevin was talking about inthat space of being able to
release perfection is you can'tcontrol how somebody's going to
take it anyway they might ormight not have even noticed the
hairline Right?
So you can't get too caught upin it because once it's out,

(34:32):
it's up to other people tocompletely determine their whole
experience.
Kevin, you have

SPEAKER_04 (34:36):
beautiful hair

SPEAKER_06 (34:37):
all the

SPEAKER_01 (34:41):
time.
All the time.
Beautiful.
I got a haircut last week.
But kind of connecting both ofyou guys, like I made a video
about Omaha and a lot of peoplelike received it well.
But behind it, it was like, Iwant to leave.
I want to go to New York becauseI feel like this isn't giving me
what I want.
So in my response, I made avideo to convince myself.

(35:03):
And then people took itcompletely not how I meant, but
people were like, oh, wow, thisis beautiful, blah, blah, blah.
And I was like, that's not whatI was like when it was.
I

SPEAKER_07 (35:13):
remember there was a long exactly what you're saying.
There was an interview on whenMTV used to play music and have
120 minutes interviews andstuff.
But they were interviewing aband, and I don't know if it was
Coldplay or Pearl Jam, but theysaid, so what does this song
mean?
And the artist said...
I don't want to speak to what itmeant to me because after I

(35:35):
create it, it could be a lovesong to someone.
It could be a breakup song tosomeone else.
It could be like an independentanthem to someone else.
So like you can have anintention behind it, but once
you give it to someone else,they can receive it however they
want.
But like, that's the beauty ofart is it can be received in a
million different ways once it'soutside of you.

(35:57):
So that's a benefit.
That's great.

SPEAKER_04 (35:59):
I agree.
It's more...
Because it almost becomes morethan kind of what...
It tributaries off intodifferent things and maybe
becomes more than you evenintended because of other
people's interpretations of it.
Cody, you've been quiet.
You know, I know...
You're working on a project thatas soon as you say it,
everybody's going to know whatyou're talking about.

(36:20):
And I know you can't dive toomuch into it.
Yeah.
So because, so, you know, Ithink the reason I want to bring
it up is because you probablyworked on some projects that all
of us are like, Oh, you didthat?
Like that's wild.
Like you were doing some prettydope things.
And Kevin too.
I mean, he's, you know, we'lltalk about that too.
He's done some Nike stuff and wecan talk about that.

(36:41):
Tell me, what are you working onthese days, Cody?
And where are you in your work?

SPEAKER_03 (36:48):
So I have a TV show that I got on here coming up,
and you might be familiar withTed Lasso.

SPEAKER_04 (36:57):
What?
Yeah, I'm pretty sure even ifyou haven't seen it, everybody
knows what it is.

UNKNOWN (37:03):
Ah!

SPEAKER_06 (37:08):
Beautiful! Congratulations! That's
actually...
This is

SPEAKER_03 (37:11):
one of the bigger projects that you've...
This is probably one of thebiggest projects that I've had
the opportunity to be a part ofso far.
How do you feel about it so far?
I'm so stoked.

SPEAKER_00 (37:28):
I feel like

SPEAKER_04 (37:30):
I just got hired by Ted Lasso.
Congratulations! Is Apple goingto sue us for putting this out
in the world?
I mean...
Hold on, that pause had me

SPEAKER_06 (37:38):
concerned

SPEAKER_04 (37:38):
for a second.
So I won't show in the script,you let me read, but other than
that, we're fine,

SPEAKER_03 (37:47):
right?
Right.
I mean, season four has beenannounced, so I don't think it's
a mystery.
What are you doing?
I'm going to be the digitalimaging technician in the camera
department.
Wow.
Okay, what the hell is

SPEAKER_04 (37:58):
that?
What does that mean?
Are you taking, it sounds likeyou're taking the photos and
you're putting them in thewater.

SPEAKER_03 (38:04):
I mean, yeah.
In the dark room.
Yeah, maybe.
It's a little different.
Yeah, tell us about it.
Yeah, it's a weird position.
that came about when filmmakingwent from analog celluloid film
to digital cameras and digitalmedia.
So it entails a whole bunch ofresponsibilities within the
camera department.

(38:25):
The one that a lot of people arefamiliar with is just taking all
of the media that comes from thecameras, the digital assets, and
backing it up and making surethat that's all done safely and
organized.
And really, I love to tellpeople it's being the liaison
between production andpost-production.
Cause when you're doing, makingthe movie and it's crazy and

(38:47):
you're shooting everything.

SPEAKER_04 (38:48):
We're talking about millions of dollars that you're,
I mean, one asset is worthhundreds of thousands of
dollars.
Oh yeah.
Every minute on the clock.
It's unreal.
Especially with a project likethat.

SPEAKER_03 (39:01):
Exactly.
Yeah.
And it all comes through me andgets passed along to
post-production.
And so at that point, when itcomes out of the camera, when it
comes out of the sound mixer,like there's one copy of that
footage and I hold it and goplay.
That one always freaks peopleout, but I love it.

SPEAKER_05 (39:14):
We don't want to

SPEAKER_00 (39:20):
drop it in

SPEAKER_05 (39:20):
the trash.
This is

SPEAKER_00 (39:21):
not a time

SPEAKER_05 (39:22):
to slip and fall.
Wait, they're not shooting ondual cards

SPEAKER_04 (39:26):
here?
What?
Okay.
These files are massive, soyou've got terabytes about
terabytes.
So obviously, you don't just geta gig like that by showing up
and putting your hat there.
I mean, over the course, yourwork has to speak for itself.
You know, what would you say,like getting that, you know,
from when you first started kindof with what you do, how did

(39:48):
you, I mean, how do you thinkyou ended up getting this gig?
It's not, you know, through an

SPEAKER_03 (39:51):
agent.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
Somebody spoke for you.
How long is a piece of string?
I mean, I decided that I wantedto be a filmmaker and, you know,
2018 or whatever.
I think that's when I wentfreelance was in 2018.
Amazing.
Like 2012 in high school, I waslike, I want to do photography
and And like, since then, I'vejust been taking steps to try to

(40:13):
continue to pursue that at thatlevel.
And so, you know, therelationships that I cultivate,
the people, the groups, thecreative groups that I'm in, all
work at that level.
And I've always aimed and shot,you know, that's my goal, right?
Is to be on this level of work.
So

SPEAKER_04 (40:30):
interesting is like, so for me, in my experience, and
maybe Krista and even Kevin canattest to this, as far as like
working in the photographyfilmmaking business, is we kind
of have to put ourselves outthere like through Instagram and
have our work speak for itself.
But a lot of your work, youcan't show because it's owned by
major studios.
It's owned by big productions,right?

(40:52):
So how do you get your name?
And it's not like you can take avertical scene and post it on
Instagram and be like, hey, Idid that of Jason Sudeikis and a
scene with some of the otheractors and just put it out
there.

SPEAKER_01 (41:06):
Before he says it, he's not going to say this, but
he's literally a legend.
Like, in, like, the photo, videoworld.
Before I even, like, met him, Ihad been hearing his name by,
like, the top creators in townfor, like, years.
So, like, when I got to meethim, I was like, oh, this is the
guy?
Like, he's, like, crazy.
So, yeah.
So, he's, like...
So, he's, like...

(41:30):
No, so he's being humble, but,like, he's, like, everyone
that's, like, really cold is,like, Cody's It's the best.
So learn them out.
Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 (41:42):
First time I heard you, I was working with a
company, and you would kind ofput your name out there to maybe
be the colorist.
For anybody who doesn't knowwhat that is, it's color
correction, post-production forfilm and video work, stuff like
that.
But it was the first time Iheard your name, and I kind of
looked at your style, and I waslike, wow.

(42:03):
you know, I'd seen some of yourstuff, but then I only saw so
limited, right?
Because the stuff you're workingon is just like, you know, I
saw, you know, some cell phonevideos of you working on some
bigger projects.
I'm like, man, I wish I couldsee some of this stuff, but a
lot of it is right.
It's all owned by these bigstudios.
So it's kind of, how does that,how, what's the challenge of
that?
Because you're working withdifferent agencies, like it's

(42:24):
much bigger.

SPEAKER_03 (42:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's really weird.
Um, Because the person who hiresme is the director of
photography.
And that person is hired by thedirector.
And it's just this long chain ofpeople that get employed until
it gets down to me.
So I don't talk to anybody thatworks at Warner Brothers or
Apple.

(42:46):
Oh, of course not.
I'll never meet them.
No, never.
But to get the call, right?
Right.
It's just been years of like...
trying to get the call rightlike today somebody calls and
the job is like a wedding andI've shot weddings and like
tomorrow they're like hey youwant to come be on this little
commercial for grandma's cookiesyou know and I'm like great

(43:06):
we'll go do it you know and it'sjust you know day after day like
kind of showing up and being thebest version of yourself you can
be and you know and then whenyou talk to people having
intentional conversations likehey like I know we're doing this
this is what I want to do andlike stuff like that it gets you
like into the rightconversations because you know
Um, I talked to Kevin and I'mlike, Hey Kevin, like, I'm

(43:26):
trying to do this.
And Kevin's like, Oh, I knowlike three people who do that.
You should go talk to thesepeople, you know?
So you just never know.
Cause like maybe Kevin's, maybeKevin's the guy that needs to
talk to you.
Like you just, you never knowwho's going to be the person.
Right.
And so it's, it's like thenetworking and the community and
how you can open the rooms.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (43:45):
And so one of the questions that I had for you
was, you know, you mentionedthat there is a line of people
and basically one person getshired and then the next person
gets hired and then they hirepeople along the the chain and
you said you got hired by thedirector of photography.
And in that, have you workedwith the director of photography
before you came on for thisparticular role?

SPEAKER_03 (44:08):
Yeah.
Um, and that's funny that youask, uh, I've never worked with
this director of photographybefore.
Um, and she's, she's done a lotof stuff like Fargo and alien.
Um, so she's, she's gets around,which is so legit with the
capital L.
So I'm super excited.
to get the opportunity to workfor her.
And she also has like her DITthat she would probably prefer

(44:31):
to hire out of LA where she'scoming from.
Of course.
So there's always these likefactors.
So now you have to kind

SPEAKER_04 (44:36):
of almost prove yourself all over again.

SPEAKER_03 (44:38):
A little bit, especially being from the
Midwest.
It's crazy.
Like all the time.
We all know.
Yeah.
Right.
It's like people come in andthey get a phone call and
they're like, so do you reallyknow what's going on?
And I'm like, right.
I hope so.
Cause I

SPEAKER_04 (44:52):
don't think people would put it in that business.
People do not stick their neckout if they don't 100% because
that I mean they really theyreally are putting I've worked
I've worked in it before in theacting world I mean you don't
get onto a set unless you arequalified invited I mean it's
yes there's nepotism yes there'speople that are you know certain

(45:15):
levels but Everybody, what'sinteresting about working on
those bigger budget things,those studio shows, films,
documentaries, things like that,everybody on set is working.
If you go to the grocery store,Not only the people that are at
this, right?
There's customers.
Not everybody there is working.

(45:36):
But when you are on a set, thecraft service person is working.
Even the person driving the golfcart is transportation for
someone else.
Everybody there is earning acheck for something.
Nobody is there shopping.
Nobody is there on their dayoff.
And if they are, it's becausethey work for the– everybody
there is working.
That's the interesting thingabout– there could be 100– in 50

(45:58):
people, depending on how big thething is.
But I mean, it could be a hugecrew because you've got
lighting, gaffers, and peoplehave to be on their spots
because if something has tochange immediately, it's all got
to get struck and put back inplace, back to one, all this
stuff.
So you can speak to thatprobably the most because you're

(46:18):
there and you're a cog in thismassive machine that's got a
massive budget.
And if you want to work again,you got to, number one, you got
to be likable.
I mean, you know, because youcould be the greatest in the
world, but they're like, I'drather go with the second tier
down because I don't want

SPEAKER_06 (46:35):
to

SPEAKER_04 (46:35):
work with that person.
Because they make my life worse.
And so, you know, I mean, like Isaid, you can kind of speak
that, but I feel like that'sanother reason why you are so
beloved in the film community isbecause I want to work with you.
There might be a better DIT outthere in the world, right?
For sure.
Right?
Oh, yeah.
Right?

SPEAKER_03 (46:51):
Yeah.
There's a lot of us.
Hold on, but maybe not.

SPEAKER_04 (46:55):
Okay,

SPEAKER_06 (46:56):
maybe

SPEAKER_04 (46:57):
just as

SPEAKER_06 (46:57):
good, but maybe not better.

SPEAKER_04 (46:59):
Okay, but just as good.
I love it.
That's what I mean.
Those are hard jobs to get, andthat's a tough...
You've got to build yourselfinto those things.
You have to be patient, and youhave to be willing to do some
grunt work did you start as a PA

SPEAKER_03 (47:15):
no so it's interesting I want to double
back because you were askingabout connections but so I've
never worked for this DP beforeand like repeat clients is
something that does happen a lotin the film industry where you
get in and that's what I've beenwhat I'm working for is to get
in good with some people, someDPs who are like, that's my boy.
We're going, we're doing everymovie together.

(47:38):
Cause that would be, that'd bethe dream, right?
Where it's just, you know.
And that leads to a

SPEAKER_07 (47:42):
consistent work environment that leads to having
a solid life structure that you,that you're not saying yes to
every little project that comesalong because you're starving.
You can then be pickier aboutwhat you take on and like having
those bonds with people that canhappen in every single field

(48:02):
that you become that person forthat group.
We've been fortunate enough to,I mean, the majority of our work
is repeat customers, which isinsane because we work for a lot
of small businesses.
So that's nuts that they'reopening new locations that then
we become that person that comesin.
We have a large client that'snow franchising the early bird
restaurant, which is now achain.

(48:24):
And we, I did the first one,which was gosh, nine or 10 years
ago.
And they now are franchisinginto Iowa they're talking about
Las Vegas and Tennessee and Ohioand all over the place and we
ask them at some point are yougoing to just start printing
these things off like ideallythat's what makes sense
financially and they're like nothis is part of the package like
you are when we pitch to afranchisee it is this hand

(48:48):
painted catalog they will comeand do the murals within your
spaces that we'll travel forthey're like if you're willing
to do it you are the person thatwill be doing this but that's
because when they say jump wesay how Every single time we
have never missed a deadline forthem for any client like that is
just but we also work with a lotof like alley pointer we work

(49:09):
with leaders construction, weare the hand painted artist for
anything they need for any oftheir clients, whether it's a
school, or a hotel, or an officebuilding co working space.
But that's because they knowthat we'll show up.
We're covered with insurance.
We have a team that can get itdone by deadline.
And it's going to look exactlylike what they ordered.

(49:30):
So if they want to branch outand work with someone new,
that's great.
But that's them rolling thedice, which is with us, it's a
guaranteed return on investment.
So...
that reputation of having thepeople that know that they can
rely on you and that you willcome through and that you will
say how high that is soimportant.

(49:50):
And if you are, like you weresaying earlier about your, your
temperament, how are you to workwith?
There are a million moretalented artists in Omaha than
myself who, I'm really good.

SPEAKER_04 (50:03):
Maybe not.

SPEAKER_07 (50:05):
I think that I look up to many, many, many other
artists, their creativity, theirskill set, I believe is elevated

(50:26):
from where I'm at.
But the thing is, is that I canget the invoice over in time.
I can get the contract.
So like they can do better art,but the client knows that we're
the package that gets thebusiness side of things.
And when it's time is money.
And maybe they get a betterproduct from someone else, but
they don't know if it's going tobe in three weeks or three

(50:48):
months.
And that is important.
So reputation is everything.
And good news travels fast, butbad news travels faster.
So if you have a few bad, youknow, experiences with people.
And

SPEAKER_01 (51:01):
kind of to your point, like growing up playing
like sports, someone might be abetter, someone might be faster,
someone might be stronger.
But like people rate things onthe overall package.
So like just because oneattribute is better than the
other doesn't make them thebest.
I think you have to take it as awhole.

SPEAKER_06 (51:20):
It's a lot of things that factor in.
I think if we were to sum upjust some of what we talked
about, I think there is a levelof consistency that has to be
there.
People need to know what it isthat they're going to be
getting.
I do think that there's thatlevel of likability that is
there.
I also think people beingfamiliar with you makes a
difference.

(51:40):
You start building community.
They know they can count on you.
It just makes it that like youcan create a product that
they're trying to have getexecuted, right?
So like, as you said, like whenyou are dealing with as the
projects get bigger, there ishigher risk when it comes to the
amount of money and the amountof time and all the people's

(52:02):
schedules who had to cometogether to make it happen.
We don't always have a lot oftime to be able to get you
caught up.
We need people we know we candepend on.
We can have a team that isthere, right?
And so like one of the thingsthat I would say is actually
really similar to what was justsaid is how do I show up as my

(52:22):
best consistently.
How do I stay honest with myselfabout who it is that I am, what
it is that I can do, and makesure that I'm trying to stay in
line with that consistentlybecause I think you pinpointed
something that I just want tobring out even more is that I
think sometimes to get into thebest rooms, you're often
invited.

(52:43):
To get into the best rooms,you're often invited.
It's not always just like theseopen calls, national calls, and
now you're competing against5,000 people who also put their
stuff in.
It's generally somebody callsyou, somebody said your name,
somebody says, come to thisthing with me, and you meet
somebody there.
It's like an invite is attachedin some capacity.

(53:03):
And so it's like, what does itlook like for you to just show
up simply as your best self, beable to speak to who it is that
you are, what it is that you'reabout, what it is that you want
to do in letting that carry younot trying to say how do I meet
this next person that person howdo I treat the people I'm around
really well and how do I treatmyself well by knowing who it is
that I am and showing up in thatcapacity consistently

SPEAKER_07 (53:26):
yep and whether it's a big corporate client or
whether it's a young womanthat's just opening a small
bakery do you treat both of themwith the same amount of respect
the same amount of timemanagement like across the board
because anyone could that bigcorporate client that that might
be their little sister.
And when you treat her with therespect that you would show

(53:47):
somebody with the big paychecks,then they're like, you know
what?
I'm going to call them becausethat's a very, they feel like
they can trust.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (53:54):
And they all matter, right?
I take on this mindset of, youknow, People's time, effort and
energy matters.
Yes.
Like just period.
Right.
So like whether it's a, it's alarger corporate client and say,
they're saying, you know, we'regoing to pay you$10,000 to come
out for something.
And you have a person that's noteven a nonprofit yet, but just

(54:14):
wanting to start a nonprofit andthey're having a small event.
And they said, well, we can giveyou$150.
Right.
Even, even whatever it is, ifyou decide to say yes, you have
said yes.
Yes.
And like their time mattersbecause that$10,000 is easy or
hard for the corporate client.
And that$150 may be extremelyhard for that person who just

(54:36):
asked for you to come in.
And you're like, that's$150.
It's so below my thing.
If you said yes, you said yes.
I don't care if your normal feeis$10,000.
If

SPEAKER_04 (54:45):
you said yes, for whatever reason, you need

SPEAKER_06 (54:48):
to live up to your

SPEAKER_04 (54:49):
standard.
It's a bigger risk for thosesmaller clients too.
You have to create a newstandard.
And on the different side of thecoin, Krista's work, here's the
thing, unless return clientsBecause a lot of weddings,
unless they, you know.
Oh, yeah.
You don't, you know, returnclients are really, right?
I mean, if you have a returnclient, which have you?

SPEAKER_02 (55:09):
Siblings.

SPEAKER_05 (55:10):
I mean, aside from just like.
Right, there's, right.
Well, aside

SPEAKER_04 (55:14):
from like.
Family members, family members.

SPEAKER_05 (55:15):
Weddings, like they get married, they have babies,
they have a whole circle.
A whole circle.
Yeah, that's different.
Yeah, that's different.
But no, I have not had a couple.

SPEAKER_04 (55:23):
The person they come back and get married.
My joke is I'll always be therefor the next, I'll be there for
the next one.
Of course.
I'll see you to the next one.
It's a dumb joke.
They always laugh because theyknow I'm being a fool.

SPEAKER_01 (55:41):
Before

SPEAKER_00 (55:44):
camera,

SPEAKER_06 (55:45):
we

SPEAKER_01 (55:45):
were

SPEAKER_06 (55:46):
talking about how wedding photographers...
That is a wild

SPEAKER_01 (55:51):
joke.
We were talking about howwedding photographers are
experts in reading the room.
So maybe how does that translateto other things?

SPEAKER_05 (55:58):
I think also just being like the expert noticer
like just the art of noticingand just like watching things
unfold I don't know if thatanswers your question I feel
like

SPEAKER_07 (56:09):
that's part of a creative process because I mean
whether you're doing a mural fora community with a group of a
committee that is speaking up towhat they want to see or whether
you're at a wedding and eventhough the bride and groom might
be you know dancing on the dancefloor but then their kids or
little brother and sister overhere having a moment you've got

(56:29):
to have your head on a swivelthat everybody's experience at
that wedding is important.
Like photos from my wedding, Myfavorites are not the ones of me
and my husband.
It's the one where I'm pinningthe flowers on my brother-in-law
and my mother-in-law.
They're the ones of all the kidsat the s'mores bar, you know,
like getting their stuff.

SPEAKER_04 (56:48):
And stuff maybe you didn't get to experience
firsthand.
No.
And

SPEAKER_07 (56:53):
I used to do wedding florals.
So being in the wedding businessalso.
And anytime I would meet with abride and they're like, so, you
know, what is, I don't know howmuch to budget for all this
stuff.
And I was like, a thousandpercent, put your money.
into a photographer orvideographer.
I was like, I'm saying cut mybudget.
And put the money into thephotographer because they're

(57:13):
going to catch things that youdon't see.
Your flowers, there's going tobe good photos of them.
There's going to be good photosand then they die.
This is what, when you arestruggling 10 years from now and
you want to go back and look atyour photo album and remember
why you did this and come backto those moments, you need to
have the photos.
So that is just like, I getchills when I talk about it

(57:34):
because I've had so manyconversations with floral
clients.
Put the money in photography.
That is, that is...
That is for seeing through othereyes that you didn't get to see
those moments.
That's so important.

SPEAKER_05 (57:47):
Well, I think it goes back to, like, the
experience that you were talkingabout.
Because, like, I'll be...
probably halfway through awedding and I have people come
up to me and they're like,you're doing such a great job.
I'm like, how do you know this?
How

SPEAKER_00 (57:59):
do

SPEAKER_05 (57:59):
you know I'm not just botching the whole day out?
It goes back to the experience.
My lens cover.
Oh my God.
How do they know, right?
Or someone

SPEAKER_07 (58:14):
can be very professional but not personable.
Part

SPEAKER_06 (58:17):
of that is the job.
It's showing up and beingsomebody who makes me and feel
comfortable as they're having,you know, history like put down
in time.
Like I think that is part of thejob because somebody might be a
good photographer, but if theymake everybody in the room
uncomfortable, it kind of, youknow.
Are

SPEAKER_07 (58:35):
you the photographer that's going to go get grandma
and help her get up and thenposition her and say like, do
you feel comfortable?
Let's get her a chair and makesure that she's, but those are
the, those are the photos youlook at.
And like, those are the onesthat are fleeting because like,
especially with family members,you don't know how long you're
going to have them around.
So really including thatpersonality.
I

SPEAKER_06 (58:55):
want to say like that personality thing is true
for anybody who works withclients to make sure that you're
creating a hospitableenvironment for anybody that
you're working with, any teamthat you're working with.
Like we talked about, it'suseful for like your growth and
career growth, but also it'sreally essential that you
realize when you are workingwith other people that it's not

(59:18):
just about you.
I have had creative projectsliterally be break down because
the videographer does not wantto collaborate with anybody
that's there they have a badattitude and not only are you
like I'm not going to work withthis person again it actually
messes up yes what it is thatyou're making like at the exact
same time right and so it's justlike that is a part of the job

(59:41):
it's not just like what is theproduct that you're making if
you're the one making it on somelevel you are attached to that
project from the time you saysay yes to the time you're like,
here's all of the materials, allthe assets, everything, all the
way down to the invoices, right?

(01:00:02):
And even something that I'mtrying to balancing it better at
is like when you get to thepoint that you can bring in
other people who fill out theskill sets that maybe you don't
have right like I know it takesme a little while to get the
invoices back out and thingslike that bring somebody in
right who has the abilities thatyou have in those areas that

(01:00:23):
you're really great bring insomebody else who has those
other skill sets that are greatto help round you out so that
you can improve your overallprocess because people are not
just looking at the outputthey're looking at the total

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:34):
package and that can be extremely hard to do because
finding the people that fit yoursort of you know that want to
work that want to do this thingyou know and it's not just like
the actual work itself it's alsoI want to work it's it's the
culture it's like I want to workwith them these are the people I
want to be around like it tookme forever I found Nate thank

(01:00:55):
God you know what I mean andthen you know and then I found
Matt and you know and or theyfound me I don't know

SPEAKER_07 (01:01:01):
I mean it's just like any relationship you might
have a lot of things in commonwith someone and you might say
well this is the partner I wantto be with because we have so
much in common.
It's so wonderful.
But that doesn't necessarilyround out your relationship.
My husband is a mechanic.
He is a meticulous, motivated,organized, just to the nines.

(01:01:22):
That is a thousand percent notme.
I get to a wall and I was like,this looks great.
Let's paint it.
And he's like, okay, we're goingto project the image.
We're going to make sure it'slevel.
We're going to have to levelthis up a little bit over here.
But that's because, and hestarted working with me over
COVID because I couldn't have myregular people that worked with
me that I loved collaboratingwith but were a little bit more

(01:01:42):
like me that were just thecreative fun painters but he
comes in and he's just like okaywell we haven't got these
estimates out we're going to dothese emails first thing this
morning you're going to go toyour appointment then we're
going to go finish this job sothat is so important that you
try to figure out how to findpeople that round out your skill
set because if you just havemore of you I mean,

SPEAKER_06 (01:02:04):
like, you might be great, but there might be gaps,
right?
Like, it might be great, butthere might be gaps.
And, like, it's so important toalso find people that you can
truly be your most authenticself with so that you can be
honest, like, really honestabout what am I good at?
Like, what am I really good at?
What should I be focusing themajority of my time on?

(01:02:26):
So you're saying I should call

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:28):
my wife?

SPEAKER_06 (01:02:28):
I

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:28):
mean, maybe.
She can't leave me, right?
No, everybody does it, butthat's the thing.
It's like, just because

SPEAKER_06 (01:02:32):
you work well in certain spaces No, but people
might want to bring on theirfriends.
They might want to bring onspouses.
And like you heard me say, yougot to be really honest about
what am I good at and what areyou good at?
And does it really fit togetherlike a puzzle piece?
Because just as we get alongreally well, doesn't mean that
we don't have the sameweaknesses, right?

(01:02:52):
And so like finding people whotruly do balance that out and
who also can take yourpersonality that can fit the
culture.
And like when you are somebodywho's bringing other people on,
You get to determine, okay,well, does it fit my culture,
right?
Versus if they're gettingbrought on, they have to be able
to fit into the culture at leastfor a certain amount of time.

(01:03:13):
I think Taylor can really speakto

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:15):
this because the bottom of this is like culture
is everything.
I mean, we talked about thisbefore.
You can go to a million placeshere in town and have a better
drink or a better sandwich orwhatever it is.
But if the people behind it arenot personal, the service is bad
or whatever it is, the sandwichis amazing.
It's great.
It's great food.
Number one, it takes forever.

(01:03:35):
They make me feel bad about it.
It's whatever it is.
There's all those things, but Imean, culture, I think, at the
Maven Social is of utmostimportance.
It's

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:45):
always the people make your own business.
I mean, if you lost all of youremployees, that bar wouldn't be
the same bar.
If you lost all of youremployees, that restaurant would
not be the same restaurantanymore.
It's always about the peoplethat make the business.
I always say that we're not inthe liquor industry, we're in
the people industry.
It's cliche, but it's very true.
It's very

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:02):
true.
100%.
And challenges, we'll go aroundand kind of talk about what
we're working on like right now,is there anything specific that,
you know, either Maven or, uh,Alice and, and, and because
you're, you're between, um, whatare the brands that you're
between?

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:19):
Yeah, I'm the GM at a Wicked Rabbit and I also run
Alice.
Have you

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:22):
guys been to Wicked Rabbit's bar too?

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:24):
It's cool.

SPEAKER_05 (01:04:25):
Is that right next to Hotel Dockery?
Okay.
Yes, I have

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:29):
been.
Can you

SPEAKER_05 (01:04:29):
explain that

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:30):
a little bit?
Uh, yeah.
So it's, uh, basically the firstspeakeasy in Omaha realistically
for that, that, uh, aspect.

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:37):
Define speakeasy.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:37):
Uh, so speakeasy is going to be a hidden bar with a
secret entrance, realistically.
So speakeasies came back in theProhibition era where you
couldn't openly drink.
You could if you were reallyrich, and that was basically
about it back in the day.
That's kind of like today,right?
Yeah.
So speakeasies were specificallya hidden bar, typically with a
false entrance, or it would say,like, dental office, and you go

(01:04:59):
in the back and there's a barkind of essence.
So Wicked Rabbit's rightdowntown, connected to Hotel
Deco.
We've got a liquor store in thefront, and then it's got a
secret door that opens up.
So it's kind of fun because Kenis one of my favorite people in
the entire world.
Six foot, 12, Thor looking guy,mohawk.
That'd

SPEAKER_04 (01:05:17):
be seven foot, right?
Six foot, 12.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:23):
Six foot, 12 is seven foot.
Let me do the math on that.
Jail cell by himself, justblasting punk music.
You walk in, you see Ken.
And you ask for the WickedRabbit.
You're not quite sure where youare.
The secret door opens up andthey've got great staff at the
back to take great care of you.
Beautiful ambiance.
There's just that dichotomy ofthat front area, punk music, and
then back area where it's justall pristine, taken care of, top

(01:05:43):
notch kind of quality.

SPEAKER_07 (01:05:44):
I gotta say, I don't drink often, like a few times a
year.
I love going to that

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:50):
place.
I've got great non-alcoholiccocktails, too.
That's great.
I love it.
It's something for

SPEAKER_07 (01:05:55):
everybody.
That place is a thousand percentthe experience.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:00):
I know that there is, obviously, with Through the
Looking Glass and Wicked Rabbit,with those names and then you've
got Alice.
What's going on with thosenames?
Is there a theme that we need toknow about

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:16):
here?
There's a little something thereand like that's kind of the
creative aspect about it too isit means whatever it means to
you.

SPEAKER_07 (01:06:21):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:21):
So of course it is related a little bit to Alice in
Wonderland.
Let's be honest for the sametime like none of our spots are
like specifically Alice inWonderland themes.
That way it just has thatcreative aspect.
It's whatever it means to you.
Wicked Rabbit specifically iskind of like chasing the rabbit
down the rabbit hole to go aheadand see where that leads to.
So just kind of following yourown passion and Find something
new.
Just being creative in your ownright.
Trying new things.

(01:06:42):
Learning new things.
But yeah, especially our aspect,just with trying new things,
there's always something else.
I mean, with hop on the wallsright here, I've got about three
to 400 bottles.
If you mixed all those togetherwith three different
ingredients, I mean, you havethousands, millions of different
options.
So that's the fun part.
There's always something new outthere with seasonality coming

(01:07:02):
in, fresh fruits, freshvegetables, stuff like that as
well, too.
My staff always about once everyweek, I probably get about eight
different cocktails my staffwant to make.
So we'll kind of go through thatlike, OK, this is great.
How do I make it better?
Okay.
This is awful.
Let's go from in this direction.
Um, and it also comes into anaspect as far as like, Hey, uh,
we need a citrus cocktail.

(01:07:23):
We need a vodka cocktail.
We need a whiskey cocktail.
So that way it gets us a placeto start and outline and like
outline and then kind of go fromthere as well too.
And just kind of watch whatdevelops.
And, um, that's, that's the funpart is just kind of watching
what develops known to yourmedium, especially all you guys
know that's extremely important.
Um, and just kind of seeing whatdevelops out of there.
Uh, cause sometimes you'll mixtwo different things together.

(01:07:44):
Sambuca is a licorice liqueur.
You got pineapple juice.
Both of those things are veryspecific flavor contexts.
When you put them together, it'samazing.
It's weird.
You wouldn't think that wouldever

SPEAKER_04 (01:07:56):
taste good.
It's like paint.
You put two different colorstogether and you get something
different.
Okay, fair.
But she just, she had

SPEAKER_07 (01:08:06):
that little black licorice

SPEAKER_04 (01:08:07):
and pineapple.
I like

SPEAKER_07 (01:08:09):
pineapple.
Why ruin it with black

SPEAKER_04 (01:08:12):
licorice?
Think of the paint job Okay,okay.
I

SPEAKER_07 (01:08:15):
have an experience just like that.
When I was working in ExarvonVillage, we did a mural that
actually Kevin came out and didsome filming on.
And we had almost the entirebackground painted, all the
colors that were in it.
And Jay Nottle came out and tooka look at it.

(01:08:36):
And he's like, this looks reallywashed out.
Can we like maybe pump up thelevel of the color?
And I don't know how you guysfeel, but when you're almost
done with the project.
And someone says, can we justlike, but it's also like one of
the biggest developers in town.
He's like the guy that writesthe checks.
And so I was like, ah, but youhave to know how to talk to that
person because you have toacknowledge what they're saying

(01:08:58):
and not just say, trust theprocess.
You have to like explain it, butalso validate their commentary
on it.
So I said, okay, let me just doa black outline on this.
You can see how the color isgoing to pop once this happens.
So, like you said those are twodifferent things that someone
might not like it but then youtaste it and see the whole

(01:09:20):
process and once the blackoutline was on it he's like
these colors don't even look thesame anymore and it's like it's
all the contrast it's thecontrast with the black so but
you have to validate people'scomments on that because that
also stops you and says likeokay well maybe they are too
washed out it's good to makethem feel like their commentary

(01:09:43):
matters Like

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:44):
no matter who they are.
100%.

SPEAKER_07 (01:09:46):
100%.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:47):
Yeah.
Kristen, tell me, you know, youdo destination, like you do
destination weddings, right?
The difference between that andlike, you know, just something,
you know, in your, like, isthere a project or when I say
project, they're all projectsbecause it's still, but like,
has there been an event or awedding that like stands out for
you?
Like something in your, youknow, what would you say?

(01:10:08):
Kind of, you know, just to giveyou a little, just give me an
opportunity to, you know, like,was it, was it a destination
wedding?
Was it a, you know, first timeyou brought the drone out?
Like what, like what, what'ssomething that you've worked on
recently that you're prettyproud of?

SPEAKER_05 (01:10:27):
Gosh.
Tough question.
I'm pretty proud of most ofthem.
Of course.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:31):
Of course you

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:32):
are.
Of course you are.
You should,

SPEAKER_07 (01:10:34):
yeah, yeah.
All of your clients should feelreally good that you said that.
Of course.
Because, like, it's not justthis one big one that makes you
feel good.
Like, all of them make you feel

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:42):
good.
And I don't want you to singleout by giving a name.
I'm just saying, like, you know,I went this way and I tried this
thing.
And, you know, I guess what I'mtrying to get at is, like, was
there something where it clickedfor you?
Like, you know, maybe you did aColorado wedding or maybe you
did something

SPEAKER_05 (01:10:56):
similar.
He's 15 at his own wedding.
No, I'm not.
I

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:00):
was just on a small farm.
I was on a small farm.
We were like in the mountainsright there.

UNKNOWN (01:11:06):
Okay, maybe I'll ask.
Yeah, you might.

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:08):
I'm trying to think.
That's how you verbally paintthe whole picture for us.
Yeah, exactly.
Listen, this is my show.
Is your wedding

SPEAKER_07 (01:11:14):
photo going to be like the thumbnail for this
talk?
Oh my God.
Oh my

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:21):
God.
I love my wife.
I love my wife.
No, no.
But yeah, I mean like I've justfrom, you know, cause we're all,
we're all like elaborating onthese big day and then, you
know, I mean, you're, you'remodest with your work.
So I'm trying to, you know, Oh

SPEAKER_05 (01:11:35):
man, I'm a modest person.
I don't know if you know.

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:38):
I do.
I do.
I do.
The

SPEAKER_05 (01:11:40):
most

SPEAKER_07 (01:11:40):
humble person

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:42):
ever.
But that's what we love you.
We love you.
But your work is really, I mean,it really does speak for itself.
And so I just want to give, youknow, was there a time where
you're like, yes, I know I cando this for a living?
I mean, because I think all ofus have been to that point.
Was there a time where it'slike, you know, I did this thing
and boom, I got the picturesback and it was just like, I can

(01:12:02):
do this.

SPEAKER_05 (01:12:03):
You know, for the longest time, I didn't know if
this was like even a thing to beable to be an entrepreneur.
Like I was like, I went to artschool at UNL and like no shade
on the professors, but they werejust like starving artists and
they put this mindset in yourhead.
And I'm like, Okay.
So like I hired my weddingphotographer and I was like, he

(01:12:23):
obviously did it full time atthe time.
And like, I was just like, Ihave no clue where to even
begin.
Um, so for probably 10 years,this was my hobby and it wasn't
until COVID where likeeverything like smacked me in my
face.
I had some pretty big lifeevents happen and finally got

(01:12:44):
serious.
And I was like, I, I, I want todo something for myself and put
myself first.
I was telling I'm tired ofbuilding someone else's empire.
So this doesn't answer yourquestion, but I'm going down a
rabbit

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:54):
hole.
It was really

SPEAKER_05 (01:12:59):
actually a mindset shift that my business, I hired
a business coach, got reallyserious and they helped me see
that it was possible.
And like earlier I was talkingabout staying curious and, um,
being open minded.
It, it was all about my mindset.
It had nothing to do with thework that I was producing, that

(01:13:20):
I was capable of it because Iwas very capable of it.
I shot my first wedding in highschool.
why would you put a highschooler in charge of a wedding?
Just saying.
But anyways,

SPEAKER_06 (01:13:32):
so.

SPEAKER_05 (01:13:33):
They believed in you.
I mean, they were my aunt anduncle now.
They believed in me.
Nepotism.
I know, I know.
But yeah, no, it wasn't likethis one project.
Like I've been a photographerall my life pretty much.
So I don't

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:52):
know.
You decided, you made that, youmade the decision was like, I'm
going to do this for me.
Yeah.
And then you saw other peopledoing it too, I'm sure.
It's like, I can do that.
It's just the commitment.
And that

SPEAKER_05 (01:14:02):
community too, being able to have that support system
and peers in the industry,whether they're photographers,
videographers, florists, justbeing able to have people that
you can bounce your ideas oryour problems and questions off
of, having that community isjust so important.
So it wasn't the work that toldme I could do this.

(01:14:25):
It was almost you.
People were coming to me.
I was just

SPEAKER_03 (01:14:30):
going to say, I was an in-house videographer for
like two years, just an employeeat an architecture firm.
And it was my friends who weredoing it freelance that were
like, you have to quit your job.

SPEAKER_07 (01:14:43):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:14:44):
you

SPEAKER_07 (01:14:48):
know the quote like be the person that you needed
when you were a teenager yes bethe person that you needed when
you were a creative that didn'twant to just continue
contributing to someone else'sbigger picture like that's what
we need to be to each other nowand i just i have to say like
talk about money It is importantto talk about money with other

(01:15:11):
creatives.
It is absolutely this like, oh,if you talk about money, then
it's because you sold out andyou're only concerned about
getting paid.
Pay artists.
We are small businessesourselves.
It is a job.
It is a career.
It is an absolute legitimate wayto pay your bills, to pay your
mortgage, buy a car, pay foryour kid's college.

(01:15:32):
It is not a hobby.
Just because we enjoy what wedo, that just means we're
fortunate.
That doesn't mean it's not ajob.
Right.
100%.
And I just think that whensomebody is talking, like if
there's a photographer out thereundercutting everyone's pricing,
there are ways to call them outor to educate the community on
it.
We've had a lot of experiencesthat people will say, we want a

(01:15:54):
mural on the side of thisbuilding and we give them a
price.
And they're like, oh my God, Ihad no idea it was going to cost
that much.
That doesn't mean we're tooexpensive.
That means that's the standard.

SPEAKER_04 (01:16:04):
She's paid by big art, by the way.
She's

SPEAKER_07 (01:16:08):
paid

SPEAKER_04 (01:16:08):
by big art.
What

SPEAKER_07 (01:16:08):
is that?

SPEAKER_04 (01:16:09):
I just

SPEAKER_07 (01:16:13):
think it's so, so important to talk about those
finances because there's othermural artists in Omaha and
around the country that arealways going to say, but I just
enjoy what I do.
So I don't want to overchargepeople.
Like, but if you charge a goingrate, then you can pay your
artists more.
We pay top dollar to everyonethat comes and paints with us.

(01:16:35):
We've got about 10subcontractors that work for us
every year.
It's our most expensiveexpensive bill that we write
off.
Write offs are important too.
It is the most, the largestamount of money that we write
off every year is oursubcontracted labor.
But we expect damn nearperfection from everyone.
I don't want you making TikToksall day while you're working
with us.

(01:16:55):
I don't want you texting yourboyfriend.
I want you on the wall working,having a good time.
We're going to buy you ice creamwhen the day's done.
We're going to give you a greatpay.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:06):
No,

SPEAKER_07 (01:17:09):
no, no.
I just think it's so important.
So when we hire people to comework with us, that might be a
fine artist that are not like aworking commercial artist.
We'll say, let's talk aboutestimating.
How are you bidding yourprojects?
How are you estimating yourprojects?
What type of contracts are youusing?

(01:17:29):
How are you invoicing a client?
Because how you invoice showsyour level of professionalism
that you can say, this is howmuch it is.
I'm willing to be flexible to adegree.
but I'm a professional artist.
This is my business.
This is my, you know, paperworkwith my header on it, my logo on
it.
I'm legitimate.
We are all legitimate.
Whatever we're doing andcreating, we're legitimate and

(01:17:51):
deserve to be paid

SPEAKER_01 (01:17:52):
for.
Can I ask a question?
For context, I'm 26.
I feel like...
Maybe.
You can be my son.

SPEAKER_06 (01:18:03):
I feel

SPEAKER_01 (01:18:04):
like I'm in this weird position where I was lucky
to have a lot of older friendswho are artists, commercial,
give you game.
And this advice is very valid topeople that have the skills.
I think sometimes it's likepeople that don't have the
skills hear that and it's like,oh, I need to just invoice when
they haven't done anything yet.

SPEAKER_07 (01:18:24):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (01:18:25):
And it's a weird transition of like, I felt this.
Okay, I'm just doing this to getgood, get good, get good.
And then there's this gray areawhere like, okay.

SPEAKER_07 (01:18:33):
When can you start getting paid for what you're
creating?
There's a lot of people outthere that are artists to
whatever level and they say,well, how much should I charge
for this mural?
It's my second mural.
It's like, well, you shouldn'tcharge what I'm charging because
I've got 30 plus years of doingthis behind me.
So there is a level of...
if you are new, that can be on ascale of your building a

(01:18:55):
portfolio.

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:56):
And I think that is...
It comes to the community,though.
Yes, you

SPEAKER_07 (01:18:58):
have to talk about it.

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:59):
I'll say, I am the most courageous when I talk to
my colleagues about how tocharge their clients.
I'm like, turn it up to 11.
Don't let them give an

SPEAKER_04 (01:19:10):
inch.
But then when it's time for youto invoice them, I'm like, oh,
yes.
That's why I'm

SPEAKER_06 (01:19:16):
like, let's go back to what I said.
I had to look in the camera.
Be willing to advocate foryourself and try not to be in
the mindset of lack anddesperation as you are thinking
through how you should be ableto advocate and communicate what
it is that you need right and itis important I really like I was

(01:19:40):
trying to give time but I'm likeI have to jump in on what you
said about like when you were atuniversity there were people who
were there but they were comingfrom more of a starving mindset
a starving artist mindset it'sIt's so imperative that you get
yourself in communities withpeople who are doing what you
want to do or who have done whatyou want to do.

(01:20:03):
Mentorship is so important.
Whether it's through a coach,whether it's through a friend,
whether it's through a familymember, you have to get people
around you who can really seethat your dream can be realized.
And they can help you break thatdown from, I like to say, hard
skills and soft skills.
skills they can take your yourskills and be able to merge them

(01:20:25):
together because you may havethe talent right but do you have
the business acumen tounderstand how to be able to go
from a hobbyist to someone whois building their livelihood off
of it and being around peoplewho see that your dream can be
realized if you put these thingsyou know this this this in place
right it's imperative that youget people around you who can

(01:20:47):
put you up on game who can talkto you in real ways that says
like Like, listen, I know youwant to charge what I'm
charging.
You may be better served bycharging this, right?
That doesn't mean, like, you'recharging, you know, one-tenth of
what I'm charging.
It just may be, I like to say,how do we make it a fast yes and
a slow no, right?

(01:21:07):
Like, staying inside of...
The

SPEAKER_03 (01:21:11):
pocket.

SPEAKER_06 (01:21:12):
Yeah, like, how is it that, like, I feel good,
right?
But also, it's not so high thatsomebody's like, that's
preposterous at the exact sametime.
But how do you balance that?
Balance

SPEAKER_04 (01:21:22):
that.

SPEAKER_06 (01:21:22):
Finding industry standards is

SPEAKER_04 (01:21:24):
useful.
That's where I've found the mostdifficulty is, you know, on that
tight rope of balancing when togo up here and go over here.
And, you know, some of myinvoices I send are not invoices
but proposals.
A lot of times I'm giving themoptions.
You know, like most of us, yougive them options.
You've got the, you know, thelow, middle, and high.

(01:21:46):
And you give them that sort ofrange like, you know, everybody
does.
But it's like...
you know that middle is usuallythe sweet spot because you know
they're kind of gettingeverything for the big it's just
you know i might not crew up asmuch here i might you know you
know take an extra thing here orwhatever but that middle range
is usually kind of but that thatis that is a huge huge jump when
you're doing that and thensometimes i also feel like

(01:22:09):
that's where this like creativething is like well I'm probably
still going to give themeverything that huge, you know,
in my bigger package.
Anyways, it's like, I want tomake sure that, you know, my
work is being whatever, but I, Iwant them, I guess I want them
to kind of see the differenttiers.
Like this is, this is kind ofwhere we feel.
This is how many hours you getfor this is how many hours you
get for that.
And that's, and, and, It'sdefinitely a learning curve for

(01:22:32):
sure.
I

SPEAKER_03 (01:22:33):
would also say just reach out.
The person you're looking up towhose work is amazing and you
would never think you could beat that level or whatever, you
can just talk to those people.
I think that's how we all gotwhere we are.
In the reverse, people will Talkto you.
That's why I

SPEAKER_04 (01:22:49):
sent you guys all messages.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cause I actually do look up toall of you in very, you know,
in, in, you know, in differentways.
I mean, shoot, I've known Taylornow for six months since we did
the thing last year.
And ever since then, I was like,dude, this guy's an artist.
I mean, he's very good at whathe does and managing all this
stuff.
And Chris, I've known you, youknow, for years, uh, working
wedding stuff.
And I'm like, I'm not bookingany weddings these days.

(01:23:10):
What's your secret, you know?
And, and I don't know anythingabout what you do, but I
respect, you know, all the stuffyou've done with Luli and, and,
and some of the stuff with earlybird and all the, all the
different, all I don't knowanything about it, but I want to
know more.
Everyone I know wants to seeyour stuff.
I've been thinking and I've

SPEAKER_05 (01:23:24):
seen your stuff, I guess.
If you're with Early Bird.

SPEAKER_04 (01:23:28):
Each one of you have something for me that I want
to...
I don't want to verbatim stealit, but I'm going to borrow some
of y'all's art.
But that builds a biggercommunity.
And it's great to see yourself

SPEAKER_07 (01:23:42):
recognized in something.
I've seen my murals in thebackground of Kevin's photos.
And that is just like...
Like, oh my God, that girl's sosexy.
Like, look at her.
But then it's just like patternand color behind her, which I'm
getting chills saying it.
Like, I love your work so much,Kevin.
Like,

SPEAKER_01 (01:23:58):
you're just so

SPEAKER_04 (01:23:59):
good.
Kevin, I want to know how youget motivated to do, like you're
a, you know, I know we don'thave a ton of time.
We could sit here all freakingday.
But I do want to wrap it up.
But I want to get to kind of theheart of why we're here.
And it's like getting motivatedto create.
Like, I think you're one of themost motivated, like single
creator It's unbelievable.

(01:24:20):
I see all the stuff that you'reputting out.
What's your motivation?
What inspires you to just becreative and go do it?
Are you winging it?
What are we

SPEAKER_01 (01:24:29):
doing?
I've got two things.
First, for his thing, just foryoung people, It's easy to be a
mentor if you're doing it.
Because it's easy for me to jumpin and give you advice if I see
that you've tried.
If you don't try, it's hard forme to give you any feedback.
But if you're doing the work andlearning, it's easy to guide
you.
That makes sense, right?

SPEAKER_04 (01:24:48):
Yeah, totally.
Because you don't really knowwhere to start, right?
If you're doing them, it's like,whoa.
Someone says,

SPEAKER_07 (01:24:52):
I want to be a muralist.
How do I do that?
That's

SPEAKER_01 (01:24:55):
not.
Yeah, exactly.
How long does it take?
Start from scratch.
For motivated, I think I'm verydelusional.
I think I can do it.
Yeah, like, if I think...
So, mushrooms...
No, like, I just, like...
That's not what he's saying.
Different conversation.
That's not what he's saying.
I think, like...

(01:25:15):
That's not true.
I don't know why, but, like, myparents just, like, instilled in
me so much confidence that,like, I think I could do, like,
whatever.

SPEAKER_00 (01:25:25):
So, like, I'm

SPEAKER_01 (01:25:27):
doing...
I think everyone does themselvesa disservice if they have an
idea and don't do it.
So, like...
What motivates me is like,There's so many ideas I've had
in the past that I thought it,didn't do it, and I see it
online.
And then I get so irritated.
So now it's like, if I think it,I need to limit the time between
like thinking it.
Ideation, execution.
And you

SPEAKER_07 (01:25:47):
said that with doing this.

SPEAKER_04 (01:25:49):
That's my, and that's partial.
I heard that from somebody,maybe Peter McKinnon did a thing
where he was like, the more timeyou have in between ideation and
execution, it's probably notgoing to happen.
Or if it does happen, thisexecution, it's going to be
watered down.
Because there's so much timebetween that you've lost your
nerve or whatever and that's whyI wanted to do this so I'll keep

(01:26:09):
doing it with different peopleat different places it's a lot
of work and it's a lot of stuffbut this is one of the best
conversations I've ever had likeseriously

SPEAKER_01 (01:26:17):
and honestly the young me if I was like 12 and
had the camera gear I had Iwould be shooting every day so
it's like I'm not gonna shootand I have all this stuff and I
know the cool people it's likeI'm gonna keep doing it and then
the third thing as like aprofessional the more I find if
I have an editing job and itsucks but I'm doing it for the
check Yeah.
I'm going to hate editing if Idon't the same day do something

(01:26:38):
cool.
Got you.
So to avoid burnout, I just haveto create more stuff I care
about.
So that's kind of how it helps.
To

SPEAKER_07 (01:26:44):
piggyback on what you said, having an attitude of
gratitude that you're justgrateful that you get to be a
creative too.
So when you come up withsomething, you need to just work
on it and creative and put itout there because that is also
just building your joy in whatyou're doing.
Like

SPEAKER_01 (01:27:00):
now I can hit up whoever and they're down to
shoot.
It's like, I'm going to usethat.
All

SPEAKER_06 (01:27:05):
right.
Okay, I feel like that was mysegue to come in.
Yes, I explicitly train andteach on this because I think
these are some of like the keysof life is like your joy really
is what can bring you life.

(01:27:26):
And when you step into your joy,that's how you step into your
light.
You know what I'm saying?
And so it's like, when I hear ustalking about like, you heard me
say earlier, like iterations andyou say like, Like how do you
shorten that gap between an ideaand actually producing it?
I think that space is calledinspired action, right?
So how do you take the thingsthat like build like passion and

(01:27:47):
joy and you do it throughinspired action.
I mean, I think that shows updifferently for everyone.
It's when you get that idea, youget that spark, you get that
light that comes out.
You don't just sit in it.
You take a level of internalpsychological safety mixed with
confidence Confidence mixed withunderstanding whatever skill

(01:28:07):
sets that you have, whateverstrengths you have.
Everybody had some strengths andyou roll with that.

SPEAKER_04 (01:28:13):
You just get it done.
Do you research?
Do you go like look at examples?
Do you try to find sort ofreinforce?
Yes and no.
Yes and no.

SPEAKER_06 (01:28:21):
Yes and no.
Right.
Yes and no.
I'm always looking forreinforcements.
Well, and I think that's whatcan get people really caught up.
Right.
Because I think sometimes whenyou start looking at those
reinforcements.
Yeah.
You get caught.
You get caught in the impostersyndrome.
You get caught in like just likethe research of it you get
caught in like oh it's got to bebigger bigger it's got to be to
be this good it's got where it'sjust like just get that

(01:28:43):
iteration out like so you knowI'm a big believer at this point
in my life of you know you learnby doing right more so than me
like you know I really love tobe a muralist right and some
people might say well I'm goingto just start following a bunch
of muralists I'm going to likeget books I'm going to take a

(01:29:04):
class like me now would be liketake inspired action get a
canvas get a poster and likemake something go get a couple
of cans right and like get outthere and just like get a
YouTube video up and like justdo it like learn by doing when
you have ideas be willing totake inspired action and when

(01:29:25):
you take those inspired actionif you notice you light up right
it gives you some joy keep goingand then you'll start to meet
more people you'll start to getyou'll start to get jobs people
will notice what it is thatyou're doing they'll notice
there's something a little bitdifferent about what you bring
like yeah like you can makethings as good as like that
person can make things butthere's something about that
energy yes like that's there andlike i gotta have some if you

SPEAKER_07 (01:29:49):
exude joy and pride in what you're doing and that is
attractive to people i think ithink i've gotten jobs not
because i was the leastexpensive like a lot of times
will be more expensive becausewe've got so many years
experience.
When I walk into somebody'srestaurant or business, it's
like, oh my God, these windows,this lighting in here is
bananas.

(01:30:10):
Like this just has such a greatflow right back to where you
want this mural.
Like this is just perfect.
When you show as much joy forwhat you're doing, for your
clients and for your owncreative self, people feed off

SPEAKER_06 (01:30:24):
of that.
They feel it and are drawn toyou.
It's back to that experience.
You

SPEAKER_01 (01:30:31):
feel it.
People can feel it, but it

SPEAKER_04 (01:30:33):
also comes out in the execution

SPEAKER_01 (01:30:35):
too, right?
The work itself.
So practical advice.
Last year, I did 87 days.
I posted a video a day.
I shot it and made

SPEAKER_00 (01:30:43):
it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:30:44):
Unfortunately, you don't have time to overthink.
So I think it's kind of like amuscle.
If you do it every day You can'tbe bad.
So now the muscle of like anidea of executing.
So it becomes habit,

SPEAKER_04 (01:30:56):
right?
It's just a forced habit typesituation.
I have no

SPEAKER_07 (01:30:58):
discipline for that.
I have probably 50 to 60 jobsthat we've completed sitting on
my phone.
Photos, time-lapse video.
I hate doing social media videosbecause I overthink the
paragraph.
Talk about how I feel about theperson and what I saw them go
through.
And I just can't post, just getit out.

SPEAKER_01 (01:31:15):
I did a consequence.
If I didn't post it, I had togive my friend five dollars.
that's

SPEAKER_06 (01:31:30):
what a mentor like that's what a mentor or a coach
can be is an accountabilitypartner and one of the things i
really want to make sure that istay uh in this moment around um
accountability partners whetherthat's through like friends
mentors or coaches coaches canchange your life i want to be
very very clear about this.
Coaches can change your life andYou do like in the space of

(01:31:55):
like, how do you like shortenthat gap?
Do not get caught up trying topay somebody$30,000 before you
actually do the thing, right?
A good coach is not gonna takeyour whole life savings, okay?
Like be mindful of that.
A good coach is not gonna takeyour whole life savings to do

(01:32:17):
what it is that you want to do.
First of all, always rememberthat you could just do it right
now with whatever you have.
can do it.
A good coach may charge some fortheir time, but they are there
because they care about you andthey want to see you thrive in
that capacity.
They are not only utilizing youto pay everything to subsidize
their whole lifestyle.
So be mindful of that becauseI've seen that with just so many

(01:32:39):
artists that like you think, oh,I need to get my knowledge up.
I need to get my skill set upbefore I go out here and do it.
And really what you can setyourself up for is getting taken
advantage of and wasting a lotof time, not actually doing the
things that light you up, thatyou So just like learn by doing,
find other people who are doingwhat it is that you're doing,
put some accountability inplace, get some consistency, try

(01:33:02):
to have a good vibe as you do itand like be as authentic as you
can.
And I think generally like wecan all say stuff will work out
on some level.
Stuff will work out for you.

SPEAKER_05 (01:33:12):
You don't have to have it all figured out.
And I can tell that you havelistened to Gabby Bernstein.
I don't know if you know whothat is.
I don't.
Oh my gosh.
You were talking about inspiredaction and I kept thinking of
her words like inspired actionclears my path.
Gabby listens to her.

(01:33:35):
Sorry, Gabby.
I can't wait.
Okay.
Well, I guess I was wrong.
I just kept hearing the Likewhen you were just like asking
those questions, it's like, itwill come to you.
You have to like, the curiosity,the open mindset and being able
to be like, take an idea if ithits you and sparks fly, you

(01:33:56):
just run with it.

SPEAKER_04 (01:33:58):
Just

SPEAKER_05 (01:33:58):
like you did.

SPEAKER_04 (01:33:59):
And that's kind of what I'm working on now is I,
you know, I want to be able tokind of develop this in
conversations that can hopefullywhoever sees it can have, you
know, you know, they'll havetheir own questions.
They can DM with differentthings like that.
And I don't bring differentsubjects to whatever.
I want to make it a bigcommunity thing.
We can't get everybody in theroom at the same time, but you
know, so maturely you start to,kind of build a little bit of

(01:34:20):
thing.
But then, you know, I also thinkthat I've, you know, stressing
collaboration has always been,you know, when I'm by myself is
when I struggle the most becauseI second

SPEAKER_07 (01:34:32):
guess myself.
Isolate.
I do.
COVID was bad for creatives.

SPEAKER_01 (01:34:36):
Yeah.
That's where the delusion comesin.
It's like, well, I think it'scool.

SPEAKER_04 (01:34:40):
Yeah.
That's enough.
Yeah.
Right.
And I do, I do like some of thestuff that I do, but I, like you
said, I got so many things onthe back burner and I'm posting
because i'm like nah becauseit's not it's not my haircut or
how i look you know for for meit's like this sounds dumb this
is too like i'm not i'm not

SPEAKER_01 (01:34:56):
yeah you can't do that don't discount yourself i
know what i think

SPEAKER_05 (01:35:00):
your ego is getting in the way i

SPEAKER_04 (01:35:05):
see it i see it now i agree for sure no question
that's another reason this isthree free therapy that's what
could

SPEAKER_01 (01:35:10):
happen what could happen is like if i make
something today In a week, I'mgonna be better than today.
So if I don't put it out thisweek, I'm gonna hate it because
I'm better.

SPEAKER_05 (01:35:20):
You're stretching

SPEAKER_01 (01:35:20):
that muscle.
So if you wait, you're kind ofdiscounting yourself again.
I'm

SPEAKER_07 (01:35:25):
learning so much.

SPEAKER_03 (01:35:27):
Sharon, I had a question for you really quick.
So in the filmmaking world, it'stotally different.
If we don't have time, we don'tcome here.
If you

SPEAKER_04 (01:35:35):
guys do, we do.

SPEAKER_03 (01:35:37):
I

SPEAKER_04 (01:35:37):
can't afford

SPEAKER_03 (01:35:39):
them.
So there's like this idea offree work.
Um, cause I know what the wholebusiness thing, and I just am
curious what that translates foryou guys, but we will go do free
work.
And, uh, because it's kind ofjust part of the industry a
little bit.
Yeah.
And you have to manage verycarefully with how you spend
your time in that regard.
Yes.

(01:35:59):
Um, and especially at the bottomend with getting started, that's
the easy foot in the door.
Like I can show up on somebody'sshort film.
Okay.
I have a very good response

SPEAKER_07 (01:36:08):
to this.

SPEAKER_03 (01:36:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Please.

SPEAKER_07 (01:36:09):
Okay.
So, um, Building your portfolio,yes, you're going to be lower
cost or possibly even free,especially if it's for family or
close friends or something.
What I have done now, becausethere are still clients that I
will give a friends and familydiscount to, but I will give
them an invoice to say, this isa$3,000 mural that I am

(01:36:34):
discounting to zero.
for you.
So if you hire another artist tocome out and paint a mural of a
similar size, it will be atleast or around$3,000.
So you're not just giving themsomething for free without an
acknowledgement of what itsvalue is.
You are telling them, I'm doinga$10,000 mural for$5,000.

(01:36:58):
If it's for a nonprofit, getthat form for your taxes that
you're doing a$5,000 donation.
So that, that is basically like,that is what I tell people,
especially when they'rebeginning is even if they're
beginning and doing it for free,say, just so you know, the going
rate in our area is going to be15 to$20 beginning rate.

(01:37:22):
a square foot for this mural I'mdoing it for free but in the
future and if you tell anyoneelse about this project Tell
them they did give me a greatdeal, but they said the value is
this much.

SPEAKER_05 (01:37:37):
Educating your clients.
That way they don't go into

SPEAKER_07 (01:37:40):
it.
Super quick.
We did a big project for RedOak, Iowa.
They came to us a year previous.
They said, this is what ourbudget is.
This is the square footage rightoff the bat.
It was like$4 a square foot.
Can't do it.
That's just not going to be ableto happen.
So instead of just saying, Ican't do it.
I said, here is a list of sevenmurals that we did, how much

(01:38:03):
they were.
So I was very transparent withwhat they cost square footage
wise.
Some of them were big clients.
Some of them were smallerclients.
And I was able to say to them,we could do this at a minimum of
yada, yada.
And he said, thank you.
This guy, even though I toldhim, no, we couldn't do it for
that price.
He said, thank you so much.
We didn't have a frame ofreference for this.

(01:38:25):
So what they did, we expected tonever hear it.
from them again God bless thistown Red Oak you guys gotta go
visit it's just beautiful peopledown there they fundraised
another$10,000 to add to thatbudget reached back out to us
even though we were the onesthat said no and he said we love

(01:38:46):
that you were patient you helpedus understand what the value was
and they said we value artistswork we don't want to just find
someone else to do it for ourlower budget we want to make
sure more people want to workwith us.
So then even though we still didit at a discount for them, they
knew what the value was.
We went there and did thebiggest mural we've ever done.

(01:39:08):
We stayed at that guy's house.
They made us pancakes forbreakfast.
It took three weeks.
It was almost 100 degreesoutside the whole time.
It was the most fulfillingproject we ever did.
They knew what the value was.
They knew that we gave them agreat deal.
And it was such a beautifulresult because it was an educate
understanding of how thatworked.

(01:39:31):
But then we set a standard.
Every other artist they hire,they know what the minimum needs
to be.

SPEAKER_04 (01:39:36):
Such a good lesson in like, you know, it's a really
easy thing.

SPEAKER_07 (01:39:40):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:39:40):
But it can be easily overlooked as well.
Yes.
But be

SPEAKER_07 (01:39:43):
patient with people.
Understand, like, people come,how much is a wedding bouquet?
I mean, do you want threeflowers or do you want a
cascading piece?
Like, do you want a weddingvideo or do you just want some
family snapshots?
There is such a wide range.
Understand Understanding yourcustomer is very important and
educating them on what thestandards are so yeah,

SPEAKER_01 (01:40:05):
this is very bad, but like I

SPEAKER_06 (01:40:09):
Feel

SPEAKER_01 (01:40:23):
like the free like just like the free filming
thing, it kind of is like, forwhat?
Like, unless you, I think youshould do it for free if it's
like, okay, I have this idea fora project and I will be able to
use it for a portfolio to get mepaid, it makes sense.
And I think the film crews, theyfall into a trap of like, they

(01:40:44):
all work on this one projectthat no one sees, that doesn't
really do anything.

SPEAKER_04 (01:40:48):
Don't tell these guys that.
I know, that sounds bad.
They work it

SPEAKER_01 (01:40:51):
for much.
This is going huge.
But it's only worth it if it'sfor experience or like it's for
a portfolio.
So if it's not going to fit intoeither of those, it's like, not
really.
Right.
In my opinion, not worth it.
Yep, it's...

SPEAKER_06 (01:41:03):
Yeah, so this is something that in my
professional career, I havecontinually advocated for
sustainability for artists.
And so I've had the opportunityto be a senior executive,
particularly my background is inopera.
My original background is inopera and human resources and

(01:41:23):
diversity, equity, inclusion,but really focused on belonging.
And inside of this it's there isthat space that you have to be
willing and ready to teachpeople yes right and this is
something that like as we arelike being a starving artist is
not acceptable just in generalit's not it's not okay for
anybody to be out here starvingthat's also working that doesn't

(01:41:43):
even make sense to me um andinside of that we do have to be
ready to teach people and we'reteaching for our own we're
teaching first ourselves rightso splitting something like
here's the valuation is youteaching yourself this is my
valuation I feel comfortablepassing to people.
I'm teaching the other personthat's on the other side.
Like this is what you'd bethinking about in general when

(01:42:05):
you're thinking about hiringpeople for this kind of work.
But then also you're setting thestandard for what comes after
you, right?
So it starts to build up theindustry standard.
And this is something that weall have to do together as a
creative community that we'restill doing in 2025, teaching
people the value of art.
And everything has brought awhole nother conversation.

(01:42:26):
We start talking about like AIand like what that brings.
example we're not going to getinto that right now like
teaching people the value of artand so when you have the
opportunity to speak up toadvocate to help set standards
that you make sure that you'redoing it in a way that it serves
not just you but it serves howwe are thinking about artists
and creatives in the industrybecause I am not like I think

(01:42:49):
I'm not a big fan of free workokay like I'm just not a fan of
free work just in general sodefinitely the in kind domain is
a fantastic one that it was awhile before somebody put me on
game with that one so I like Ifeel like a gym was really
dropped um and in that anotherthing that I have utilized is if

(01:43:09):
you can't pay like what theamount is but it's something
that I want to give like havingsome type of honorarium that's
there um it should not be thatyou have adults coming out
completely for free unlesseverybody's doing it for free
right so like if we're justhaving I like to call creative
jam sessions so like or you knowyeah so like if we're just
having a jam session like Like,you know, I'm modeling, you're

(01:43:30):
shooting, let's do it.
If this is happening and we'reboth doing this for free, then
like, okay, we're just havingfun together.
And like, and building ourportfolios at the same time.
It's like an educational play.
Yeah, but if there's moneyhappening at any, yes, that
thing like, you should bepassing that down.
And that goes for something whenpeople think of like the

(01:43:52):
creative arts, like photography,dance, visual arts.
But even you heard me say, I'm aspeaker.
So like, even if you, and likespeaking as an art, like I want
to be very clear about this, butlike if there's like a
conference and you want aspeaker to come in for free, but
you're charging tickets for theconference, like if there's
money that's happening at anypoint, then that means everyone

(01:44:13):
who's involved should be gettingsomething.
Because even if it's, you'recoming out for an hour, but we
want to make sure that you get$25 for that hour of your time.
If they

SPEAKER_07 (01:44:22):
offer, even if it's a low amount, it just shows that
they know that you're valuable.
Even if it's not enough, it justshows that that offer is even
there.
That is so important.
But if they just say, we're justlooking for people to donate
their time.
And it's like, well, I'm lookingfor someone to donate time to
fix my car too.
That's another thing that's soimportant is that no one goes to

(01:44:45):
your restaurants and says, yeah,I really like this meal, but
would you be able to do it forthis much?
You don't call a plumber andsay, well, I do need to get my
sink replaced, but could you doit for this amount no other
businesses do that exceptcreative businesses but it is
still a business so just thinkof that where do you go and say

(01:45:10):
yeah I'm hungry but I don't havethat much well then you go
somewhere else and you buy somefood somewhere else so why do we
do it so easily and we shouldnot be you both are saying like
something very

SPEAKER_01 (01:45:25):
cute like you both are saying a lot of things
because you guys are pros i'mlike young so like i have so
many i have friends

SPEAKER_03 (01:45:45):
i

SPEAKER_01 (01:45:46):
have friends that i know that hear this conversation
and they're like i won't workfor free, but they need
practice.
I think you should practice forfree all the time.
So they don't get better, theydon't sharpen the skills because
they think they need to get paidto do that.
That's also a

SPEAKER_07 (01:46:02):
dangerous mindset.
There's a lot of overconfidentkids, and I use the word kids
because I just meaninexperienced, of any age, but
there's a lot of people outthere just saying like, my stuff
don't stink and I deserve to getpaid for this too because I've
got this equipment.
And it's like, you have nothingto show for that.

SPEAKER_06 (01:46:20):
price.
Yeah.
And so if you are, if you arelike just starting, you are
building a portfolio.
Well, one, again, that's a greattime to have some creative jam
sessions.
That's a great time for you tobuild community with other
creatives and other artists.
Because if I have never donephotography before at all, I
might say, Hey, can I come on ashoot with you and be your

(01:46:42):
second person?
I can do lighting.
I can do anything.
Right.
Like, so if you're in that kindof space where you're like, I'm
transitioning, you can't expectthe same thing as somebody who's
been doing something for 15years.
Like, let's be real, right?
But if there's a money apart,you can still say, I'm going to
give you$25 to come and do mylife.
Like, yeah, I'm not getting paidanywhere near what the contract

SPEAKER_04 (01:47:02):
is getting.
If you're a videographer and youwant to work on a show, you can
help me with this production.

SPEAKER_06 (01:47:07):
Right?
But if you are dealing withlike, I am a fan of like
mentorship programs and thingslike that.
That might be a little bitdifferent.
So if you're dealing with like acollege or a high school, again,
that is a different type ofscenario.
If you are 14 shooting yourfamily's wedding, baby, be happy
they're letting you shoot thatwedding.
They're taking a risk on you andthey're paying you in that hug

(01:47:30):
at the end, right?
But you're still getting paid,Tossie.
So I just wanted to clarifybecause of that.
Make sure you're getting sometype of an energy exchange,
which is bigger than money.
Make sure it's an energyexchange that you can be happy
with.
But it's important that I saythis.
You will never, never, never getpaid What you are worth.

(01:47:52):
You are worth so much more thanany amount of money.
You'll never get paid what youare worth, but you just need to
make sure that you're gettingpaid something that's a
reasonable energy exchange foryou.

SPEAKER_03 (01:48:05):
Just to tack on to the end of that, I tell people
all the time, it's critical weprotect our enthusiasm.
And if that number does not makeyou show up to work and be so
happy to be there, it's notenough.
And likewise, back to what yousaid at the very beginning was
like If you accept a number thatis below what you're
enthusiastic, you have to showup.
You still have to show up to beenthusiastic.

SPEAKER_04 (01:48:29):
I want to sit here for another four hours, but we
all have things to get back to.
We'll have you guys on again forsure.
We'll do it at another placeanother time and we'll do that
for sure.
I got to put a ball on it.
I love that you're having

SPEAKER_07 (01:48:45):
this conversation because I find so many times
that people are so disjointedand so unwilling to think that
you have anything in common withsomeone else until you sit down
at a table break bread and yourealize the things we have in
common are so much bigger thanwhat we have that separate us
because like things that youguys do it's nothing like what

(01:49:06):
we do but I have so much incommon with everyone at this
table so these conversations arejust rad I

SPEAKER_04 (01:49:11):
mean it's really important that I brought in a
whole vast array of from youknow from restaurant because I
think the major art thererestaurant, bar, from
photography and video, what wedo.
But then also we film the stuffthat you produce.
Like we're putting, we're takingphotos of stuff that you
produce.
And I mean, look at the, you gotstained glass here.

(01:49:33):
That's art.
Somebody did it, you know, andthen the arches from who
designed the sconces.
There's art everywhere ineverything that we are doing.
And so there's a vast array ofthings.
And that's really why I wantedto do it because I, you know,
I'm struggle with, you know,getting out there and being a

(01:49:54):
part of that community.
And I shut myself in so muchthat I'm like, okay, I got to
get out there.
I got to do something becauseit's going to inspire me then to
do that more.
So I seriously, from the bottomof my heart, I really appreciate
each and every one of you.
It really does mean the worldbecause I've wanted to do this
as Nate.
I've wanted to do this sinceI've known him.
And I tried an iteration of it,did not work out, was not, just

(01:50:17):
the culture, the feel wasn'tright.
But I know get some people thatyou respect in the field and
bring them in and have aconversation.
Awesome.
I appreciate you.
Thank you.
Thank you so much, guys.
Appreciate it.
That's it.
I

SPEAKER_06 (01:50:34):
have a request before we leave.
I mean, we're right here, you

SPEAKER_02 (01:50:37):
know.
Can I get in my family?
We can.
We can do something.
Okay, period.
I don't know if he's set up.
I don't

SPEAKER_06 (01:50:43):
know if he's set up like that.
He already said yes.
Man, don't be trying to take myyes away.
We're going to take a selfie.
We're going to take a one, two,three, four

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

The Joe Rogan Experience

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Taylor, Christa, Sharon, Kevin, Cody, Andrea Joy

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

The Joe Rogan Experience

Dateline NBC

All Episodes

Taylor, Christa, Sharon, Kevin, Cody, Andrea Joy

Stuff You Should Know