May 22, 2025 • 58 mins
It was on the afternoon of Wednesday 12th December in 1945 while a retired cooper named Alexander King combed a familiar section of shoreline along the river Dee in Aberdeen, collecting driftwood for his fire, that he made a most gruesome discovery. . . .Episode chosen and researched by Victoria
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EPISODE REFERENCES
Press & Journal articles:
1 TITLE: Forensic expert reveals one of Aberdeens most shocking crimes which may never be solved
2 TITLE: Betty Hadden: Who killed teenager in Torry in December 1945?
BOOK
3 TITLE: Blood and Granite: True Crime from Aberdeen by Norman Adams
4 ART PRINT called Had Elizabeth Only Known by Edward Gorey
REDDIT:
5 Unsolved Mysteries reddit. Post by user: unknown as deleted
TITLE: The unsolved murder of Betty Hadden or: The Aberdeen Arm Mystery6 True crime discussion reddit. Post by user: Agpicklefeet
TITLE: I'm an artist researching this early piece by Edward Gorey. "Had Elizabeth Only Known" 1946. Knowing Gorey was a fan of true crime- does anyone know of a case that resembles this scene?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:12):
Hello and welcome to Episode. Two of the criminal crack.
I cannot believe it's episode. Two, I can't believe it's
episode 2 either. This is fun.
I'm really excited because this week, as you know, every week
one of us will tell the other a story and because I was first
last week, which I hope you all enjoyed.
It's Victoria's turn this week so I get to sell lesson, which
(00:34):
is good because I I drank Monster last night at 8:00 at
night and didn't fall asleep till after four in the morning.
I've never buzzed like it. Energy drinks don't usually
affect me because of my ADHD andautism, but I'm medicated now
and apparently that makes a difference.
But we're not, we're not promoting any particular kind of
(00:55):
energy drink unless they want tosponsor us and then, you know,
bring it. I wasn't gonna say the I wasn't
gonna say the type. It's that bad apple.
But anyway, what have you been up to this you?
Did say the type though didn't. You, I said.
The brand you. Said the brand.
OK, I've been on a mighty adventure with my friend Lynn,
OH. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
You have other friends? I'm sorry, I, I, I'm afraid I
(01:15):
do. Got it.
They're awesome, though. You'd like them.
So Lynn came up from Reading andI picked her up from Inverness
Airport and then we went all theway up to the very top tip of
Scotland to the UK mainland in the what is it the highest part
in the UK mainland, which is John A Groats, which everyone
knows that anyway. And is a.
Groat. I don't know what a groat is.
(01:37):
It sounds. Like the John it.
Sounds like a testicle growth, doesn't it?
Trust used to go there. But anyway.
It's usually me that Laura's. We went up to Jonah grouts, we
saw all sorts of things. I saw puffins, I finally saw
Buffet used to. I didn't take any photos though.
I'm really gutted because I leftmy camera with my long zoomy
(01:58):
lens in the car which was just. A.
Where was the? Stake in the car park.
How far away from where you werestanding?
Far enough and I'd already been blown over, Literally blown over
by the wind. I got blown off my feet.
I can't Boo Hickey. Called Beauty Kids.
Yeah, it was. But it was great fun.
And on the way back we did a little magical mystery tour.
We went to a church, I think it's just called the Old Church
(02:21):
in Nick. *** yeah. We always say we are.
The Knights will say me, but it was, there was so much history
in this church, it was pretty cool.
Well we didn't actually get to go in the church.
Warden bloke had just locked thechurch but we went around the
churchyard. Ohh wait a minute, I thought you
couldn't go in because you mightlike go up in flames.
(02:42):
Well, there is that potential, isn't there?
There is. But we went to around the church
yard. There was some really
interesting stuff. They have a cholera stone, which
is basically a headstone where years and years ago there was a
cholera outbreak. And somebody who was the warden
of the church at the time, I think, saw a yellow cloud
passing the church and caught the yellow cloud in a piece of
(03:05):
cloth and buried it and put a stone on top.
And it's just one of those. Well, that sounds legit.
And I'd just like to let everybody know that most of,
well, all of our cases are backed up with references, but I
cannot stand behind what Victoria's just said.
Well, I wasn't there. I'm just, I'm just telling you
what what the story is so the locals won't remove the stone
(03:28):
for fear of releasing the cholera on the cloth buried
beneath. OK.
You can go move it if you want. Cholera.
You're weirdo. I'm not going up there.
Bring on the disease. No, don't.
I've got enough wrong with me without adding cholera to it.
Yeah, I don't even know what cholera is.
I think it's in the water, isn'tit?
I didn't think it was airborne, but not to do with bad hygiene
(03:50):
conditions. Is it?
I think it's something to do with rotting flesh, isn't it?
I don't. Know so this.
Luckily this is not a podcast about cholera, as neither of us
have a clue. Because we'd be guessing we
would be I'm. Hoping I'm not too loud, I'm
gonna sit back a little bit and I'm gonna try and slow down
South. Just a heads up, the Scottish
voice is gem and the England Shire voice is.
(04:11):
The England Shire voice is Vic. Unless I'm doing an accent.
Unless she's doing a really good.
Accent. It's not.
Don't say it's good because people will be like, that's
terrible. But it's when I try and
pronounce the Scottish places aswe've already experienced.
That's so apologies in advance because there are some Scottish
place names. In the.
Case of Scottish. Well, I didn't really do
(04:32):
anything this weekend, so I wentto a car boot sale.
A really good cheeseburger. That sounds like a good weekend
to me. It was good.
I disappointed as there's like alittle tea Hut thing.
Oh no. Val.
If you know, you know that hurts.
Sorry. That was a bit hard.
(04:53):
It was, I don't know, my own strength.
But I I was told by somebody outside the tea Hut that I could
expect pancakes on the inside. And they have been my current
food obsession. Although I had one today and I
only managed quarter of it. I think it's done.
But when I went in and looked atthe table with the snacks, I
said to the woman, yo, where's the pancakes?
(05:16):
Have they ran out smoking a pancake?
And she said, you know, we haven't done them since COVID.
That was like 5 or 6 years ago. Why is the guy outside telling
me there's? Why COVID be?
Because. Well, first you COVID another
thing. You're responsible.
They stopped in like after COVIDbecause everything had to be
individually wrapped, but their volunteer numbers dropped as
(05:38):
well so they don't have people to do the buttering and the
Raspberry jam. How on earth do you wrap a
pancake anyway? Do you prefer a fat pancake or a
crep? I prefer a crepe.
In fact, your mom makes really good.
Crepes. I make the best crepes.
You're speaking crepe anyways, so let's, let's, let's get on.
A lot of people don't like the banner.
I mean, whatevs, that's their personal choice I guess.
(06:01):
But come on then, Victoria, whatis the crap?
So I've didn't know if I was supposed to, but I've named my
episode, which is a little bit nerdy, but I just thought you
are, I've, you know, I've researched, I've written, I'm
going to name it. So this one is called Terra and
Tide. Rack tie rack like where I used
to work. Tide rack working as in Gump you
find on the beach. Oh my God, this is Victoria's
(06:24):
special subject. Is this an?
Actually true crime case or is this you just telling us what
you've picked up for the last year?
You don't want to tell people I pick stuff up on the beach.
She puts it back. OK, sorry.
Looking at the massive bit of driftwood behind me.
Oh well, I'm sitting on a shelf.That's going in my Monstera, so
yeah. I can't even see it.
I thought we were joking. No that.
(06:49):
Oh, sorry. Anyway, it was on the afternoon
of Wednesday the 12th of December in 1945, while a
retired Cooper named Alexander King combed a familiar section
of shoreline along the River Deein Aberdeen.
He was collecting driftwood for his fire.
Whilst he was there, he made themost gruesome discovery.
(07:09):
Gruesome discovery. Was it Donald Trump?
It was, oh, sorry, we don't do politics.
No, we don't. Who?
Who? Donald Duck.
Wait, can I just interrupt really quickly?
Go on. So for ages, my children thought
two things. First of all, they thought that
Boris Johnson was Doris Bonson, and they thought that Donald
Trump was the Donald from Donald.
(07:30):
Where's your true users? And they were old enough that
this year. Do you mean it's not that,
Donald? Oh, I'm sorry.
Oh. Illusion shattered.
Sorry, right, I'm going to be shushy.
Okay, so Alexander noticed something out of place.
A plump white object lay amongstthe stones and tide rack.
There's that word again. On closer inspection, Alexander
(07:51):
realised that what he was looking at was in fact a human
arm and hand. Now, in 1945, with the war
having recently ended, it wasn'ttotally unheard of for human
remains to wash ashore. However, Alexander was quick to
notice that the arm was bound atthe wrist with twine and he
promptly raised the alarm. Oh God.
I haven't heard this one. Alexander speed hastily with the
(08:14):
limb to a police box in VictoriaRd where he informed Detective
Superintendent John Westland of the discovery.
DS Westland was shortly after assigned to the case as lead
investigator and worked to identify the origin of the
remains. Began immediately And here's a
sciency bit. It really was fast this police
work. Police surgeon Doctor Robert
Richards was called in and tasked with the initial
(08:36):
examination of the limb. He stated that the left arm with
hand detached had belong to a female aged approximately 18
years, who had more than likely been alive 3 days prior to the
discovery. In 1945 they were able to work
that. Out.
I know, that's so clever. Hey, it's science.
He reported that although there were, there was already evidence
of animal activity because the back of her hand had been
(08:59):
nibbled away by crabs, the limb had likely been in the water for
less than 24 hours before washing up on the shore of the D
Rigour. Mortis had locked the nicotine
stained fingers into a claw likearch.
So hopefully I'm painting a goodpicture of this.
Think the thing the claw thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
(09:20):
And there was little evidence ofmanual labour.
The arm had been severed at the elbow using a knife and a saw
with small teeth, and Doctor Richards noted that the saw had
been used in multiple directions, and although the
wound was neat enough, it was too neat to be that of a
propeller or something similar to that.
It was decided that whoever had performed the disarticulation
(09:42):
was likely not a medical professional.
The arm and hand were bound loosely at the wrist by twine in
a granny knot, notably so loose that they believed there was
actually space for some sort of anchor, so possibly a rock which
had likely fallen free when the limb had been discarded.
Although most would have alreadyassumed this, it was stated that
(10:03):
a person with this kind of injury would likely have not
survived. Do they know if it was cut off?
Poster Perry Morton. I couldn't find that
information, but I think the assumption was.
Hopefully. Post Yeah, yeah.
So police searched. Oh, yeah.
So nevertheless, even though they, they think they're
looking, you know, they think this is a murder.
(10:23):
They don't think this person would have survived that injury.
They did. The police did search hospitals
for any female amputees, just tocover all bases.
It's been found with a missing. And the pace of the
investigation really was rapid, so within 4 hours of discovering
the limb, fingerprints have beentaken from the dismembered limb
(10:44):
and matched by police to those belonging to a young lady called
Elizabeth Haddon, who was not well known to the police but who
had previously been caught shoplifting.
Hence her information was on file.
So you use if you got caught forshoplifting but not convicted,
you used to get your fingerprints taken?
I have heard. I've heard her name.
You have. You probably have, Yeah.
(11:04):
So Elizabeth Elizabeth Haddon, also known as Elizabeth Ann
Craig but more commonly and affectionately known as Betty,
was a petite, dark haired young lady and recent school leaver
who was nearing her 18th birthday.
Oh. She wasn't even 18.
Yeah. It's so, yeah.
Can I interject a second? We also know that it can't be a
Barber because did you know thatback in the day, if you were
(11:27):
training to be a Barber, you went through a lot of anatomy
similar to what doctors went through in training so they
could, they knew how to wield a scalpel, basically.
See this ones interesting because by the end of it, by the
end of researching, I have my theories as to who it's not, but
not to who it might be. So this is an unsolved.
(11:51):
I think we would really like if listeners, after they hear your
whole tale, wade in. I'd love to hear as well if
there are any people local to the Aberdeen area who might have
heard stories and like this might have been a tale of.
War. Yeah, you know that this might
have been something that parentshad told their young daughters.
(12:11):
Don't go out at night, you know,because you'll end up like Betty
Haddon. Who knows?
I'd love to know if there are any local.
Yeah, that's interesting. So Betty usually resided with
her mother Kate and five siblings in Manor Walk, Woodside
in Tory. A Tory.
Tory, is it? Yep.
Oh, like that's what my parents used to call me.
Tory baby. And you don't like it, do.
(12:32):
You. I did.
Used to. So Tory is a small suburb of
Aberdeen lying on the South Bankof the River Dee.
Did I say it wrong again? Tori Tori.
No, you said it right. Think about Tori maybe?
Although she hadn't been home since early December, Betty's
absence was not a cause of concern as she would vacate her
(12:54):
widowed mother's home when looking for work so as not to be
an extra burden on the family. Supposedly.
Well, you can imagine with sevenpeople under one roof, it would.
You're going to have to switch her strings.
I couldn't find out about the siblings, but I'm assuming maybe
she was the oldest and so potentially that's why she was
going out to look for work. And yeah, there was little
information about the family other than there were five
(13:16):
siblings and a widowed mother and her her.
I think Betty's dad had died 2 years before, 2 years prior to
this. So Betty was presently
unemployed, but she had previously been employed as a
waitress, a kitchen maid, a factory hand, a fish worker and
other things. However, her mum told the police
that some of these jobs only lasted 3 days or so, so she
(13:39):
wasn't exactly committed to the hard labour.
Betty was said to have a fiery temperament and the neighbour
described her as a wayward sort of girl and a strong willed
girl. I think we'd probably go on with
that. The same name Neighbour
mentioned that Betty would drop in from time to time to smoke,
chat or to read a book. And Betty's mother, Kate, said
(14:01):
Betty was not a bad girl on Betty's character.
Others claimed she was. Well whilst we're on Betty's
character, others claimed that she was flirtatious and someone
described her as a lady of the night.
And although I don't think this necessarily has the same
connotations it does now. Betty was well known along the
waterfront in Aberdeen and oftenseen in the company of men.
(14:23):
But the waterfront area of Aberdeen in late 1945 was a hub
of activity with pubs and Taverns which were popular
amongst port workers and sailors.
Well. But it doesn't necessarily mean
what you might think. I think she probably was a sex.
Word I We can't rule it in or. Out.
But it's not, it's not a big stretch.
(14:44):
It's not a huge jump, is it? So once identified, the police
acted quickly in circulating a photograph of Betty, and in
fact, the local tabloid press responded by running an article
on the front page of the EveningExpress in the very same day.
Close those. Yeah, that is so fast moving.
They obviously had nothing else going on, the Grizzly headline
read. Compliment in one hand, taken
(15:05):
away with the other. The grizzly headline read Grim
find on Aberdeen foreshore sawn off arm and hand found foul play
suspected. It's like, no shit, Sherlock.
Thanks. Don't hit me.
Oh. Right in the shed, sorry.
I should have done my reflexes then and just kicked you in the
tush. I actually worried that your
(15:26):
reflexes don't work. I'm sorry, but you just hit me
on the head. I'm dead inside.
Investigations into Betty's whereabouts, including
eyewitness statements, quickly gleaned that on the Monday the
10th of December. But he had been out drinking
along the waterfront with a friend, Sheila Stewart, who was
21 years old, so a little bit older than Betty.
(15:47):
Their movements were well documented, although almost all
sightings that I found to refer only to Betty and not to Sheila,
which is probably common as she was the victim here.
So yeah, you would expect they may just be assuming that we
know that she was alongside her friend.
So. So at 7:00 PM on Market Street,
(16:08):
Betty was seen trying to attractthe attention of three sailors.
The witness said she was giving the sailors the glad eye.
Not the glad eye, the glad. Market Street is where we went
to that vintage kilo sale. Oh.
Right. OK.
Yeah. So that is, that's right down by
the harbour there. Yeah.
So that paints a good picture for me as well, because I did
have a look at a map and I was trying to sort of get my
(16:30):
bearings and figure it all out. So that's that's good.
You've been there. I've been there.
So by 7:15, so I don't think herglad I had much effect.
But by 715, Betty was seen walking with another girl,
assumed to be Sheila, and four fishermen who witnesses say were
possibly foreign. How they know this I couldn't
(16:53):
tell you. Maybe they had sombreros or
something. Sorry.
At 10:00 PM. Give me the giggles, he said.
Serious. This is serious.
It is because. At 10:00 PM, so quite some time
later, an eyewitness claimed to have seen Betty walking with two
sailors, arms linked, and the witness said she was she
(17:14):
appeared to be acting strangely,but I think that's a bit vague,
so. Was it somebody who knew?
Her it wasn't no. So it's it's I think that one is
a bit you could. Put it this way, if somebody saw
me walking down the street that didn't know me, they're probably
gonna say I was walking strangely.
Exactly. Yeah, that that would have to be
in context from I know what she's like normally too.
(17:36):
Yeah. So that's why I said that's a
bit vague. I do, yeah.
I could disregard that sighting.Eyewitness stay together are
never the best anyway. Not really, but if it was her,
it's said that they were headingtowards Union Street OK and at
10:30 Betty was spotted back in Castle Street by herself but
following closely behind 4 girls.
(17:57):
Then at 1245 S again couple of hours later.
Now this seems to be not only the last confirmed sighting of
Betty, but also the most reliable as this witness was a
friend of Betty's. Oh yeah, that makes sense.
And. This was in Upper Kirk Gate
where Betty had approached that friend to enquire about lodgings
for the night because she was living homelessly, or it was
(18:18):
believed that she had been living homeless for her last few
days. Anyway, the friend said that he
couldn't help but that Betty haddeparted in high spirits, waving
behind her and shouting Cheerio as she left.
Cheerio. I can't do a Scottish accent.
You do the cheerio. I can't do an Aberdeen accent,
but Cheerio. This was just 21 hours before
(18:38):
Alexander King made the discovery on the beach, but.
It really did happen quickly. Then whatever happened to her
happened, and then she was found.
And the police work as well. I'm, I am really actually quite
impressed with the scale. And I'll go more into what they
did. Yeah, even though they never got
the answers they wanted, I'm impressed with the work that
went in or the work they've reported.
(19:01):
Especially when she has been, people have described her as a
possible sex worker. We all know that nowadays it's a
fight for people in the sex industry to even be known as
missing or shared as missing. Yeah.
So yeah, good on them. I can't remember Detective West
all or something was. It it's some I was just going to
(19:21):
say about the sex industry as well.
It's Westland the detective, butwith I sometimes I wish the
media wouldn't necessarily, unless it's important to the
details or important to locatingsomebody.
I wish they actually wouldn't even mention it sometimes
because it demeans that that wassomebody, somebody's little
girl, somebody's partner, somebody's sister.
(19:42):
You know, it's and men as well. Sorry, you know men in the sex
industry that go go missing as well.
You just don't focus on that bit.
They were a human. I think if it's, if there's a
string of and it's sex workers being, what's the word?
Targeted. Targeted then fair enough you
can say that, but I almost thinkit's a way of saying this person
(20:04):
was a sex worker. So the rest, you other people,
you normal people can go and breathe a sight really awful.
But that's not true anyway, because most of these people
escalate, you know, people, we do do these crimes, they do
escalate and they will. They're opportunistic.
So everybody beware. Not not, you know, Yeah.
Anyway. So, yeah, it was Detective
(20:26):
Westland in the early hours of December the 12th.
So around 2:00 AM. This, this is a bit, this is
where the terror comes in. Maybe a little trigger warning?
Yeah, not necessarily. Is it?
Gory. No.
OK, I'm good then. I'm sorry.
No, no, I don't like worry. Now in the early hours of
December the 12th, around 2:00 AM, the quiet of the hollow
(20:49):
winter night was pierced by a blood curdling scream.
And this is how residents of a small area on the South side of
the river described the terrifying sound which rang
through the streets. So reports came in from
residents in and I've looked at the map and it's an approximate
half a mile radius. So not, not massive.
They listed a load of the streets, but I thought it's not
(21:10):
going to make sense. If you're listening in America
or something, you're just going to go from here.
So it's about a half a mile radius where these reported
screams. People actually do, they
actually reported. It so often the bystander effect
kicks in. And the oh good, these blood
curdling screams were were heardand reported.
And this was just hundreds of metres from the river and
(21:30):
slightly West of a golf course that's there which hadn't been
used much since the war. So I think it was pretty much an
abandoned wasteland if you can imagine by that.
You would know that. So it's unlikely that it's one
of these foreign sailors, as they were saying, not the way
that I would ever describe something.
Can I just say one thing during the war?
(21:52):
Sorry, I had to get. Out during the war, the lengths
Aberdeen City Police went to in this investigation was were
huge. As I've already mentioned,
Betty's disappearance was said to be the catalyst for one of
the most intense and prolonged operations the force had ever
conducted. So ships in the dockyard were
searched. Those on board were questioned.
(22:13):
The police tracked vessels that had been in Aberdeen on the
night of Betty's disappearance and intercepted them at their
next ports of call. That's nuts.
That is nuts. And this wasn't, sorry to
interrupt, but there was quite alot of murders in and around the
40s. So it wasn't like, oh look,
we've got something to do today.We're not getting cats out of
trees. No, I know.
(22:34):
It's honestly the the the scale of this that is impressive.
Isn't it? I'm glad they did that.
I'm glad they did that. The police were also witnessed
dredging the river from row boats.
They were seen wading in long boots and flat caps.
That it was actually said that the police swapped their police
hats for flat caps when they went into the river.
And they were using grapes, which I was like this is this is
(22:57):
not the fruit. Oh, whilst I never thought it
was whilst. Fruits have many, so many uses.
This was not now grapes. GRAIPS, which I think are kind
of pitchfork, like a long, you know, that American Horror Story
famous painting with the woman and her husband and she, they've
got the pitchfork. Nope.
(23:18):
Oh, anyway. But I'm going to look.
Up what a grape is when you're talking.
That's what they were using to examine the foreshore, which
also painted a pretty dark mental image in my head because
it's like, so you're just going along like stabby, stabby,
stabby to see what else you can find.
Like prod. No, that's a pole.
No, but they stab into the water.
(23:40):
Yeah, but they don't see if theycan like squidge it into you.
Don't know human. Remains.
Well, that they weren't. No, when they were doing that,
they weren't trying to squirt. They weren't trying to
pitchfork. What the other arm?
So they also used large magnets in case her body had been
anchored by something metal. Police forces also cooperated
(24:02):
along a 400 mile stretch betweenBerwick upon Tweed, which is the
most northerly county in England.
And John O'Groats, where I've just been, and they searched the
beaches. And so all these police forces
were sent out to search the beaches and the shoreline and
particularly places where they knew things washed up, because
you do get certain coves and things where you get a lot of
(24:22):
debris. But no other piece of poor Betty
was ever recovered. So it was noted that a human leg
had washed up after a storm in the Bullas of Buchan.
Am I saying is it? Buch Yeah, I taught you Buchan.
Buchan, I'm so sorry. I'm too old to learn new tricks.
(24:42):
Don't, because that's just buying into the women at Dakota
calling one of us a dog. Woof, woof woof.
No. So it was noted that human leg
had washed ashore after a storm in the Bullers of Buchan.
Hey, I did it sort of. This is approximately 30 miles
north of Tory, but this was determined to be that of a man
(25:06):
and not related to this case in any way.
Did they find out who it was or?They did say that that might
have been a seafarer, like somebody lost at sea, like a
fisherman or something. Sorry.
So, but no, don't say, ah, 'cause how many pirates have
wooden legs? So he's, he's all right.
He's got a stump now, probably. Why?
I'm sorry, I saw a man who builta Lego leg yesterday, and
(25:29):
instead of made out of Lego, he said it was made out of leg.
He never built it Yesterday. I saw it on a meme.
No, I was gonna ask. You said at the start that they
determined that like the person couldn't have survived.
Are they 100% sure she couldn't have survived?
That's all the reports that I. Read What about did her handbag
or anything like that to her not.
Nothing. Gosh, no, no shred.
(25:50):
Not like the last episode where you know, they they did find
things. There was nothing apart from her
arm and hand. So sad to think like that.
People can just disappear. Yeah.
And it's almost worse when one part of them is found.
Yeah, nothing else. And I think her friend said she
would have had there, there weredescriptions of what she was
(26:10):
wearing. I think she was wearing a green
or blue coat and she would have had cigarettes and things with
her but nothing. On I guess because she'd had
alcohol, she'd probably bled outeven quicker than she would
have. Oh, I feel really sad.
Yeah. Well, it there is a strange
twist here. Oh, so Sheila Stewart, the
friend that I mentioned had beenout on the night out.
Yeah, she'd disappeared and was now also reported missing an
(26:33):
article in the Sun on Thursday the 20th of December 1945.
So that's what, 8 days after Betty's arm was found?
That was the 12th. Wasn't it?
Yeah. So this is what the article
said. Wait.
And. Was she found again?
Sorry, I'm rushing ahead. You wait.
The mystery of Betty Craig, alsoBetty Hatton, whose forearm was
found on the foreshore at Aberdeen, has been intense by
(26:55):
the report that her 21 years oldfriend Sheila Stewart is
missing. She is believed to have planned
a visit to Glasgow, but the police are considering the
possibility that she too has been murdered.
Did. They see something.
This is really like sorry. Is this horrible?
No, it's a real like, oh, OK then.
Thankfully Sheila was traced some days later in Perth,
(27:17):
Scotland. That is thankful.
That is good. She was.
All right, to Glasgow. She was returned to Aberdeen
where she was questioned, but inthis I find a bit strange.
Wait, did she do a runner? That's what I'm wondering.
So there is little information about what Sheila had to say.
So she she wasn't given any information about the night in
question and I find that really peculiar.
That's probably why they don't mention her as much.
(27:40):
Could she one have had somethingto do with what happened?
Could she too have witnessed it and thought get out of dodge?
Because I don't want to be next.Don't have a three?
I built that up right. Well, I have a three for you.
Go on then. Did they have what we'd now call
a pimp? Did Betty say I'm not giving you
(28:01):
my money tonight and hers was used as a threat to the others?
Yeah, it's a scar. Yeah, making.
That's speculation completely. This is just my mind going to,
you know. It's plausible though.
It's plausible, I think, if she was a sex worker.
Did sex workers back then have? I don't like the word pimp, but
did they have somebody like a manager?
Yeah, let's go for a bananager. I don't know if they did.
(28:24):
There's something we'll have to find.
I I would say they did because if you think about Madam's in
brothels and things, that's much, much older.
Much. Yeah, 1617 hundreds.
They would have had somebody managing them.
Definitely plausible. And the sex trade is probably
the oldest. Well, it is the industry in the
world, isn't it? So it.
Is and it's ridiculous that it'sillegal, but.
(28:47):
Yeah, but but that was potentially another reason why
Sheila might not might not say anything or might have very
little to say to the police if she in fact was working in that
industry too. Notably as well, few of Bettys
male acquaintances were forthcoming with information.
So that does kind of that's. Horrible as well because the
police are working so hard to try and like her poor mother and
(29:12):
her siblings as well. I know.
Just because she didn't live with them just now, you know
that was circumstance. It doesn't stop you loving your
kids and it must be awful. And also she was away trying to
find work. That's what that's what they
said was like. She would go away when she
wasn't working so as to not be aburden because she wasn't
bringing an income into the house.
So she was trying and her mum said she was a good girl.
(29:34):
Yeah, 1 less mouth to feed. Yeah, police caught wind that
Professor Sidney Sweeney, a leading forensic expert, was in
the city and they invited him tore examine Betty's limb.
The professor concurred with thefindings of the police surgeon
and added that he had himself performed 2 surgical
dismemberments which took him approximately 2 hours.
(29:55):
He stated that someone with no professional knowledge of
anatomy would have taken far longer to perform the gruesome
act. But there wasn't much time in
between. And hang on.
So you're. So where were we at?
We were about 2:00 AM when she was last seen.
Yeah. By the friend that she was
trying to get boarding with. Yeah, and then the limb was
(30:16):
found at. 21 hours later. Yeah, 21 hours later.
So somebody with he sang with No, yeah.
Was the scream was at 2:00 AM Yeah.
So I think. Was Sydney Sweeney in town
before? No, this was a few weeks later
that I think they caught up with.
Him. Sorry, Professor Sweeney.
(30:37):
He was doing a talk at a college, I believe.
Some all right. OK, there is quite a big medical
students do go to Aberdeen so. You get ready for this though.
This is like, honestly the lengths they went to with this
investigation. This is 2 cases now where the
police have really pulled their finger out.
Yeah, yeah. Initially thinking that the
(30:57):
dismemberment itself must have taken place in a ship or
dockyard building because of theassumed time and.
You can't do it in the middle ofthe street.
Not gonna. Exactly.
They concluded that the remains must have been deposited between
Tuesday night and Wednesday morning, which we kind of, if
you're saying that, yes, that scream was Betty, yes, we kind
(31:17):
of would assume that too becauseshe was found Wednesday
afternoon. And the arm was not meant to
come back. Exactly.
But in order to try and determine where, so they wanted
to determine whether the arm wasthe body.
I suppose the remains were deposited from land or sea.
They concocted a rather peculiarsounding experiment.
(31:39):
Experiment. And I've put on my notes here.
Enter pig limb. Oh Yep, pig limbs weighing
approximately pig. Limbs, I know that's what you
should have called the episode, Yeah.
So the the pig's limb, piggy's limbs, weighing approximately
the same as Betty's arms, arm, sorry, were thrown into the sea
(32:03):
from various points on land and at sea.
To see where the return. To yeah, to try and determine
which would follow the same direction, because obviously the
currents do tend to. Follow the same direction.
Now the only limb that ended up on the same stretch as Betty's
arm had been deposited into the water at Tory, Tory, Tory, Tory.
(32:24):
I can't hang on two ticks. I can't understand why you would
cut somebody's arm off to then deposit of.
I don't get it. I imagine lots all of her went
in the. Water Well, if you think about
it, Professor Sweeney said it would take it takes him a couple
of hours to remove one limb. So if we're to believe that this
(32:48):
person with no training managed to cut off her head, both arms,
both legs, possibly her feet, that means.
So there was. Speculation some years later.
I haven't included this in my notes, but I did read about an
investigator more recently who so this isn't you know word for
word, but he speculated that shehad been put in some kind of
(33:11):
case or box and actually the armwas the only part they couldn't
squeeze in so they just chucked so they just chucked that one.
But for me I. Don't know where would the box.
The box would have been found, absolutely.
Yeah, you'd think. Unless it was buried.
Very, very. That poor girl, what did she do?
To go through. Wait, and you said somebody
else's a leg, could it have justbeen maybe there was a serial
(33:34):
offender? I know they thought the leg was
a seafarer, somebody lost at sea, but could there have been a
serial offender? Well.
It's always possible. Isn't cutting limbs off cutting
limbs off? And if you if you, maybe he was
making some kind of Frankenstein.
I knew you were going to be doing this sort of route.
You knew. You knew I was ready.
I. Was going to mention politics
but I shall not. No, don't do that.
(33:56):
So that so we were at the limb coming from they, they figured
from this pig limb experiment that it was deposited in Tory,
which is where she was from. And from this, the knowledge
that the killer or killers wouldhave needed a place where they
would have been undisturbed and the possible use of a vehicle,
because they did obviously vehicles, then the police
(34:17):
surmise that the killer was likely local and maybe even
known to Betty. So, and I think that seems more
likely than a lot of. So a lot of the early news
headlines mentioned the sailors that she'd been seen with.
I have an issue with that because a granny knot is
notoriously a bit crap. It's not a very secure knot.
(34:41):
And for me, seafaring people andsailors, no, they're not if they
want. But contradicting that her arm
was the only part of her whetheror not failed and it came to the
surface. So actually, could it have been
somebody who just rushed that last level?
You see my issue with the sailors?
Sorry, that's alright. Is that the live on board that
(35:04):
boat? How are they hiding the
equipment used? How are they getting back onto
that boat? They would be covered in blood.
Somebody would have seen something.
Well, not if they swam back ontothe boat.
Well then you'd be like, why didyou swim back on the boat?
You'd knob use the gangway. Check me with my lingo.
Check here with your sailor lingo.
(35:24):
So the interesting methods of the police used during this
operation didn't end there. So there is.
Is this pioneering? There is more is.
This pioneering why have I got no words today?
I blame early men like perimenopause.
Did they invent new methods? Is I guess what I'm asking?
Potentially pioneering methods of It's just good old fashioned
(35:47):
police work, isn't it? Because they look like the pig
limbs. Isn't that's not that's
something you have to think that's pretty.
Creative, isn't it? I think this, I think this
Detective Westland must have been pretty creative and pretty
open to people's suggestions, bythe sounds of it, which is good.
That makes an. Excellent team.
There's not enough of that and Ithink he has AI.
Think he looks like Des Lynam. Do you?
Yeah, bushy moustache. I think taller though.
(36:10):
Taller than Des Lynam, but. Was des Lynam or sorry is des
Lynam? I believe he's sure.
A little guy. I think so.
I'll find out. So the methods, these
interesting methods and these pioneering methods didn't go
there and there. So in in trying they they really
did seem to think of everything in trying to determine the
(36:32):
source of the screams heard during the early hours of the
12th of December. Female police officers and
clerical staff, they volunteeredfor this.
They were situated in various locations around Tory and asked
to scream at the top of their lungs, which is actually very
therapeutic for anyone who's never tried it.
I just go out into a field and scream.
It's amazing. Their scream stirred no response
(36:56):
from residents. No response they didn't hear.
They didn't see any little lights flicker on.
They didn't see any curtains twitching.
Nothing. And the experiment was actually
deemed unsuccessful. Did they go around the houses
and say like, did you hear something?
Why didn't you like? Did they check?
I don't know if they checked. Or did they could have put other
(37:17):
police officers in locations around the area and then had the
women scream so then the police officers could be?
They did have other police officers with them, so they but
the police officers were more, Ithink they were there to observe
the responses and reactions of the locals, of which there were
none. I would just like to say that
Victoria was wrong. Dais Lynam is 6 foot 2.
(37:40):
Get out. No, I won't.
Show me. Well, he's so 1.8, let me show
you. That's not a picture of him.
No, wait a SEC 1.88 metres is 6.2 feet.
Go back deadline on 1.8. He's not the bloke I was
thinking of thinking. Of.
(38:00):
Another grey head, Manny. Did he have a fishy moustache?
Yeah, I don't know who. I can't look up all the I'm
sorry, sorry days. So that one was unsuccessful
that experiment on Christmas. So this is still about the
screams on Christmas Day in 1945, Aberdeen CID issued this
statement. Information to the police during
(38:20):
the past few days has established that about 2:00 AM
on Wednesday the 12th of December, screams described as
being made by a female in terrorwere heard by several people at
different points in the Tory district.
If the person who screamed was not Betty Haddon, it is of vital
importance that the police learnwho that person was and nobody
(38:42):
came forward. I'm sorry my dog is huffing and.
Puffing the dog She's the CEO ofthe criminal.
She's the. DJ George Eyebrows.
Oh, she's just getting right. We'll just give it a minute and
let her get cosy. She's.
Making her bed. Is that an actual little bed?
Is it a little? It's a little cosy for her.
It's not, it's not. Yeah, she's got a nest.
She's got a Macard or pillow. Now she's huffing.
(39:06):
Tell everybody how old? Oh, George is 13.
She's so cool. She is my favourite potato.
Potato. Potato.
Oh, we might get into trouble for that.
Gemma's about to grow potatoes, but not little George's, even
though I would love. That, that would be amazing.
But she's about to grow potatoesin a washing basket.
Perhaps she could send me some advice?
(39:27):
Potatoes. Potatoes.
So from the screams on the Southside of the river to the last
sightings, to the wild experiments with pig limbs,
police were certainly focusing their attention on Tory itself.
And a police spokesman said we shall go through Tory yard by
yard now apparently, and this amused me, apparently old Tory
(39:48):
housewives were very house proud.
And so news of the intense houseto house inquiry sparked a manic
cleaning frenzy. Which is what you want when
you're looking for evidence. With women scrubbing their steps
twice and outhouses and you've got to wonder if one of them
unwittingly washed away some crucial evidence.
Let's get rid of this secondary.Crime.
(40:10):
It's just that it did make me like, I just sort of head slap,
you know that bit. Yeah, don't.
Don't mention what you're doing and also are you supposed to
wash your steps you. Are on your front door, you
don't care. Why this all things like in your
endo to me what I would be called in Aberdeen's a clatty
(40:33):
midden. She's a clatty midden.
What's your curtains? Your skank.
Don't talk about curtains, because you know what that's got
me thinking? Just get on your your tail.
Right. So this is a bit later.
Obviously Betty's arm was preserved in a jar.
This is just a little factoid for you, but it's a jar was
preserved in, well, not a Marmite jar.
(40:54):
We're not sponsoring my right and we never will be.
I love Marmite. Yum.
Betty's arm was preserved in a jar and used by John Nickel as a
macabre prop during a lecture onpolice work.
It was held. Oh.
No, no, I don't like that. A prop I know.
It was held at Marrichal College.
Marshall, Marshall. I think it's Marshall, Marshall.
(41:16):
Wait a SEC. So her family weren't given.
They probably couldn't afford tobury her, but.
He actually there were talks of him holding it up to the light
for all the people to see and stuff.
It was held at the college untilthe mid 90s when the when the
college relocated and the arm was discarded for the second.
Wait a SEC, at what point as a either a police student or a
(41:39):
medical student, whoever was there, do you not know what an
arm looks like? Why do you need to see one in a
jar? That's that's really irked me.
That's annoyed me. That's so disrespectful.
What irked me was the thought ofthis.
Was I in my notes? I I wondered if a fresh
scientific examination now, had they have not discarded the arm
(42:00):
for the second time, it could have gleaned more answers.
And the police reportedly had suspects in mind all those years
ago, including two sailors who had supposedly been seen with
Betty just 14 hours before the limb was discovered.
But I'm reluctant to believe it was a sailor for the reasons I
said. Before because I don't agree.
I don't think they do an unreliable knot.
(42:21):
I also think somebody needed a place, you know, to do this
dismemberment, and a local sailor would be.
Or no, and you're not going on the boat.
Oh, sorry, Captain. Captain Aberdeen Police still
hold a box within their archivescontaining files related to this
case, which I would love to haveaccess to, but it does say it's
(42:42):
a closed file in the sense of itis not a public record.
Right, well that makes me wonderas well.
What's the name file? So it contains files, I think it
was 1 box containing multiple files related to the case of the
murder of Elizabeth Haddon closed to the public.
But it would be interesting. I want to see what shifted their
(43:04):
focus so abruptly to Tory and away from the Dachshund
shipyard, which they'd focused on quite a a lot because of
where she'd been seen. But also, you know, they were
talking about these sailors, they were talking about all
sorts of things down at the shipyard and dockyard until was
it just the scream? Because if it was just the
(43:24):
scream, what if that wasn't her?What if they've shifted all this
focused Tori when actually it was down at the dock somewhere?
Or was it somebody just with a car?
It's just driven her away. There are so many unanswered
questions and I would love to get my hands on those files.
I wonder if is there a book about this?
Did you find a book at all? I haven't found.
(43:44):
Anything else? About no.
There's lots of reading. Lots and lots.
There's lots of even the newspaper articles and I took a
lot from the Press and Journal. From press and journals.
Brilliant. There is one book actually,
which I referenced the it's justa Google book, which was.
The name will come later. We'll put it in the blurb
because I've just got. The we'll discuss.
(44:05):
Reference the link is PT-65 and LPG PT-65 and that's no use.
To you. Oh, the end of that was a Morse
code. So I doubt now that the mystery
of Betty Haddon's disappearance will ever be sold.
Sold. Don't say so.
Well. And I wonder too, this got to me
a little bit. So I wonder how much less we
(44:27):
might know if that one anchor had not slipped loose.
So if she, if it hadn't allowed Betty's arm to surface on the
shore of the Dee that day, she would have just been a miss.
How many missing people, you know, they're just gone without
a trace. And would another missing girl
have sparked one of the largest police investigations in
Aberdeen history? I don't think it would.
(44:48):
I think she would have unfortunately been passed as a
case, a missing, missing girl who was, you know, this fiery
temperament who had potentially been a sex worker, who was a
living homeless. I don't think if that granny's
not had slipped, we would not know her.
We didn't know her name and thatmakes me think because I'm a bit
of a believer in fate, there wasa reason that that happened and
(45:11):
maybe it was just to get her name out there.
But back then did they have the seven-year rule for declaring
her dad? I don't know because I do wonder
5. You would think back then it
would have been needed because then at least her mum not, I'm
not talking about compensation, but it might have helped her mum
out a little bit. But I was going to ask where her
grave was because I just sort ofassumed that they would have
(45:33):
buried her arm. Or I should look that up.
They must. They must have a they must have
a spot for a memorial. They must, and if they don't, we
should create. One, we'll look into that and if
we can find it, we'll do a little day trip one day and go
and show you everything. So whilst researching this as
well, I found a piece of artworkby somebody called Edward Gory.
(45:54):
We don't know that it's about Betty, but if you look at it,
it's got a foreshore in the background.
It's called Had Elizabeth only known it was painted in 1946, so
one year after Betty Had This has got amazing and it's a
really grotesque picture of a naked woman with no arms from
the elbow. Being looked into this.
(46:15):
Being being hung off a shipping hook and I have looked into this
guy because I wanted to see if he ever visited Scotland and he
did but not until the 70s apparently.
But he was in the military and. Knife skills.
There is just something about this this picture that I just
thought it's got to be relating to her.
(46:36):
I will put the link in our blurband everything so you can check
the picture out for yourself. Maybe do some sleuthing, I don't
know. Why would somebody do that?
I know, I don't understand why. He's into sort of macabre and
grotesque things anyway, by all accounts, but not.
Does it have to be based on a real person?
Which obviously. We don't know that it is that it
(46:57):
looks. Yeah, it's got Elizabeth.
And had Elizabeth only known? Almost sounds threatening.
Had she only known that I. Who he was?
Yeah, exactly. I know.
Another thought I thought that Ihad that I did jot down the arm
being dismembered with a knife and a saw, that says to me that
it wasn't planned. They weren't necessarily well
(47:18):
practised in dismemberments because.
They thought it'd be quicker andthen they resorted to the saw.
Yeah, and wait that they so an alternative.
Tool. Yeah, so was available.
That's it. So were they at home?
Were they in an outhouse or a workshop?
Did they have a kill kit? Was it was a kill kit thing in
1945? Was it this a Dexter style?
(47:38):
I've got my rollout baggie, you're thinking.
Of Dexter? No, the kill kick guy.
I know Jaris Bonson, I know exactly who he is, and people
will be screaming. Oh what BTK?
No, he wasn't the kill kit guy. He had a kill kit.
No, the guy I say yes. Free icing I.
(48:00):
Can't get online to find it. Carry on.
I'm going to come back. Yeah.
Kill kits all over America. This guy.
You'll have to do that one. I don't know that one.
I probably do you. Will Israel keys?
OK, I will do Israel keys. You should.
Yeah. It's a it's horrifying.
But yeah, I wondered if, you know, could this have been a
kill kit? Could he had some he had a go to
(48:21):
when? It was a tree.
So also she worked in a fish place, you know, as a fish
worker. And I thought, OK, could this be
somebody who is used to going fish with a knife and going, oh,
well, you know, I can do this. And then going, oh, knife's not
going to cut it. We're going to need like.
Not a knife. Not a knife.
This knife is spoony. We're going to need, you know, a
(48:44):
saw. So could it have been be
goodbye? Yeah, that's not Essex.
I don't know why I went Essex. Oh, we are gonna.
We're gonna have like a cat. This isn't we.
We're not don't it, no. Can we just go back as well as
to maybe so she was looking for work.
A lot of people would have been looking for work around that
time. So a lot of tradies would have
been looking for work, tradies, joiners, plumbers, all that sort
(49:07):
of thing. So maybe somebody travelled with
a kid. Oh, I.
Thought you were gonna say maybeshe was really good at getting
fish and they didn't want her tohave the job.
No, but I I doubt that. You think I'm thick, don't you?
No. A little bit.
No. Wow, that's I have heard of the
case before. I thought that her mum was
something to do with this is me.I've I've obviously got it
(49:29):
completely wrong but in my mind she lived with her mum and her
mum it was like a brothel. But then I've obviously got
mixed up between cases, which isquite normal for me because I I
read so much. And have you got mixed up
though, I mean. Well, it's really interesting.
It's really interesting. There are a lot.
Yeah, go Google this because there are lots of images, there
are lots of not of of the armouror anything like that.
So. We will have few groceries up on
(49:52):
our Instagram. Yeah, so from each episode.
I mean, there's even, you know, these women, these housewives
that decided to go on this mad cleaning frenzy.
They were even like, oh, come in, have a cup of tea to the
officers and stuff. And so there are a couple of
pictures of the. Stranger danger guys, I.
Know right come on you trust thepolice well you said you did in
(50:12):
the day I trust individuals and actually it seems like this was
a police forced to trust at the time pull in all stops and.
Unless there was a reason for it.
Yeah, yeah, there's lots of unanswered questions there.
I do wonder why Sheila was so quiet about that night and her
sudden evading Aberdeen and. I'd like to see if we can find
(50:33):
more information about that. I'd also like to look into the
ancestry archives, see if we canfind the siblings and see if any
of them befell anything. Yeah, sometimes.
Or if did any? Family members later on in life
go and look into the case. Maybe we've missed something
and. Like the case you did last week,
you know the family will never, ever give up and I can quite
(50:55):
imagine we've I can imagine Betty's closest people would
want to find her. Obviously I can't imagine her
mum having a lot of spare time if she's got five siblings, but
I can imagine there being peopleto rally around.
And just one. Sensors.
Whereas now, nowadays, we're notafraid to go and ask questions.
(51:16):
Plus, women have changed betweenthen and now a lot.
Yeah, I guess back then, women still were kept in a certain
place and daren't ask questions,especially not of like an
inspector or something like that.
Whereas you and I, for example, would be like, Nah, this, this
doesn't make sense. There must be something else
(51:39):
going on here. Definitely, we've got those
kinds of minds that probably race ahead, but sometimes it's
valid, you know, I think who. Was your speculation you had a
speculation about who you thought you might be able to
link it? To no, no, I thought I was just
rolling out sailors, which they clung to for a long time because
she'd been seen with sailors, because it was a knot.
(52:00):
But I don't think I said already, I don't think they'd
have used an unreliable knot. That could have been a ruse.
It could have been a ruse. I can't remember where the knot.
So the knot was still the, the binding was still around her
wrist, around her wrist, but it was loose enough that they
thought there must have been some kind of anchor.
(52:20):
Obviously they didn't know it was a rock because otherwise
they wouldn't have gone on to dothe magnet sort of fishing thing
to try and. And the magnet thing would have
found a box if that theory was right.
Well. Not if it was a cardboard box.
A cardboard. Box would find a great car but
everything would have floated out.
But it's bound to have had Is itnot like treasure chest heroes?
So it would have like bolts and.Buckles.
(52:42):
There would have been a lot of debris in the D so.
Sorry, that wasn't easy to say, was it?
You had to have a bit like you need a space debris in the D.
There would have been a lot of debris in the water around the
UK because of the war, because of the huge industry.
But there's also a lot of Nets set up when you think about it,
(53:02):
in and not in and around Aberdeen.
You don't go in and you can get caught in the net, but you know,
in the waters there, there must be a lot of Nets.
So was there nothing? Oh God, you could.
Honestly this took me down such a rabbit hole of I just wanted
to, I wanted an answer. And that's the trouble with
unsolved. And I apologise that we've done
(53:25):
2 unsolved. I'm not two weeks running.
We don't know what each. Other are doing.
That's the thing, we don't know what each other's cases are
going to be. So it might happen again.
And hopefully it's been interesting enough that you'll
go do your own research. Go find, tell us, tell us if you
find anything out. Tell us if if I've said anything
which you think no, I'm contradicting that.
Have we made a mistake in any ofour episodes?
(53:47):
We welcome constructive criticism.
If you come on and just be rude you will get blocked if you've
not realised already. Unless it's fun.
If it's really funny, you know. I'm going to tell you something
funny in a second. Oh, because it's to do with when
you spoke about wooden legs, butjust give me a SEC, OK?
And as I say, like we won't, Victoria and I are very of the
(54:09):
people. I guess you could say we.
Are the people? We are.
So without going too much into it, if you look at what's
happening in America and what happened here recently with
regards to the law, this is not something that we believe in.
People are people, end of. So this morning my son said, oh
mum, I've got a joke for you. And I said OK, go on then.
(54:31):
And he said right, there's this guy and he lost his eye.
OK, OK. And they gave him a wooden eye,
which I always used to think youcould see out of a glass eye,
but now I'm wondering if they made the right of wood if that
was possible. But anyway, this guy got a
wooden eye and he went to a party one night and he saw this
most beautiful girl and he was looking across at her and she
did have a big nose, but he justthought she was stunning.
(54:52):
He went over and he introduced himself and and he said to her,
I'm just wondering, would you like to come out on a date with
me? And she went would I?
And he went shut your face, big nose and stopped off.
And I said, oh, that's made me really sad.
I don't like that. So we had to add a story to the
end of it where they got over. She said, no, I didn't mean
(55:13):
you're wood and I and he said, you've got a beautiful nose.
It was the first thing I saw. And then they got married.
There was a lot to unpack there.References for all episodes will
be on our Facebook initially. We are working on a website.
Victoria's the blogging. I'm just smiling about her son's
joke. That's better.
(55:33):
Ones but it did make me sad. I nearly cried.
Oh no, they weren't meant to be together.
Can you imagine the babies? I did say that.
They were tough, three eyes and one looking at them you're.
Such a Dick. Of course you can't see through
a glass eye. Well, I just.
It's just there for vanity, not vanity.
No, that's terrible. It's not vanity, but it's not.
(55:53):
It's just symmetry. That's what it's there.
But I wouldn't eye what are theydrawing on with a sharpie, The
pupil? I don't understand.
Imagine what you could do though.
It's like I liked her from Kill Bill.
You know the one with the patch?They're all Hannahs character
with the patch. I just thought you'd have so
many different patches. Wouldn't you'd have a Halloween
patch? And like, Gabrielle had that
really nice blingy ones. Remember Gabby?
(56:14):
Yeah, yeah. Anyway, all references will then
we'll soon be on a blog of sorts, which will also include
basically our written notes for each episode as well, so if you
want to go and have a read, you can.
And bear in mind this is done inand around our working lives,
(56:36):
our family lives. And once again, we are brand new
to this. So it's it's all.
It'll get better. It's a learning, it's all.
Learning and it's all and hopefully we'll bring you some
interesting cases that you mightnot have heard before.
You might have. You might know every last detail
of them. Well, I can tell you that the
next case coming is Auk case andit is a solved case and it's not
(56:56):
a very old case. Sorry, that was a little bit
abrupt there. I cut it off in the edit as I
remembered that I hadn't done a shout out that I meant to.
So this is Jem at a later date. Adding in the shout out, it's
for a friend called Samantha McKay and her friend Victoria
(57:17):
Harvey. They are two best friends who
are on a mission to raise funds for two causes close to their
hearts, Milne's Nursery and Fokivers and the For Covers Fire
station. Now these girls are bonkers in
my opinion. On June the 1st they're doing
the kilt walk, which means they'll be hiking 80 miles from
Banchory to Duffy Park in Aberdeen.
And then they're doing a bungee jump, a tandem one on June the
(57:38):
12th, which I told you they're abit bonkers.
I'm going to share their page onour criminal crack page, but I
just wanted to give them a little shout out.
So good luck ladies. We are rooting for you.
On that note, I think it's probably time to go.
Wrap it up. We'll see.
You next time baby, thank you for listening.
(57:59):
Goodbye. Bye bye.
Hello and welcome to Episode. Two of the criminal crack.
I cannot believe it's episode. Two, I can't believe it's
episode 2 either. This is fun.
I'm really excited because this week, as you know, every week
one of us will tell the other a story and because I was first
last week, which I hope you all enjoyed.
It's Victoria's turn this week so I get to sell lesson, which
(00:34):
is good because I I drank Monster last night at 8:00 at
night and didn't fall asleep till after four in the morning.
I've never buzzed like it. Energy drinks don't usually
affect me because of my ADHD andautism, but I'm medicated now
and apparently that makes a difference.
But we're not, we're not promoting any particular kind of
(00:55):
energy drink unless they want tosponsor us and then, you know,
bring it. I wasn't gonna say the I wasn't
gonna say the type. It's that bad apple.
But anyway, what have you been up to this you?
Did say the type though didn't. You, I said.
The brand you. Said the brand.
OK, I've been on a mighty adventure with my friend Lynn,
OH. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
You have other friends? I'm sorry, I, I, I'm afraid I
(01:15):
do. Got it.
They're awesome, though. You'd like them.
So Lynn came up from Reading andI picked her up from Inverness
Airport and then we went all theway up to the very top tip of
Scotland to the UK mainland in the what is it the highest part
in the UK mainland, which is John A Groats, which everyone
knows that anyway. And is a.
Groat. I don't know what a groat is.
(01:37):
It sounds. Like the John it.
Sounds like a testicle growth, doesn't it?
Trust used to go there. But anyway.
It's usually me that Laura's. We went up to Jonah grouts, we
saw all sorts of things. I saw puffins, I finally saw
Buffet used to. I didn't take any photos though.
I'm really gutted because I leftmy camera with my long zoomy
(01:58):
lens in the car which was just. A.
Where was the? Stake in the car park.
How far away from where you werestanding?
Far enough and I'd already been blown over, Literally blown over
by the wind. I got blown off my feet.
I can't Boo Hickey. Called Beauty Kids.
Yeah, it was. But it was great fun.
And on the way back we did a little magical mystery tour.
We went to a church, I think it's just called the Old Church
(02:21):
in Nick. *** yeah. We always say we are.
The Knights will say me, but it was, there was so much history
in this church, it was pretty cool.
Well we didn't actually get to go in the church.
Warden bloke had just locked thechurch but we went around the
churchyard. Ohh wait a minute, I thought you
couldn't go in because you mightlike go up in flames.
(02:42):
Well, there is that potential, isn't there?
There is. But we went to around the church
yard. There was some really
interesting stuff. They have a cholera stone, which
is basically a headstone where years and years ago there was a
cholera outbreak. And somebody who was the warden
of the church at the time, I think, saw a yellow cloud
passing the church and caught the yellow cloud in a piece of
(03:05):
cloth and buried it and put a stone on top.
And it's just one of those. Well, that sounds legit.
And I'd just like to let everybody know that most of,
well, all of our cases are backed up with references, but I
cannot stand behind what Victoria's just said.
Well, I wasn't there. I'm just, I'm just telling you
what what the story is so the locals won't remove the stone
(03:28):
for fear of releasing the cholera on the cloth buried
beneath. OK.
You can go move it if you want. Cholera.
You're weirdo. I'm not going up there.
Bring on the disease. No, don't.
I've got enough wrong with me without adding cholera to it.
Yeah, I don't even know what cholera is.
I think it's in the water, isn'tit?
I didn't think it was airborne, but not to do with bad hygiene
(03:50):
conditions. Is it?
I think it's something to do with rotting flesh, isn't it?
I don't. Know so this.
Luckily this is not a podcast about cholera, as neither of us
have a clue. Because we'd be guessing we
would be I'm. Hoping I'm not too loud, I'm
gonna sit back a little bit and I'm gonna try and slow down
South. Just a heads up, the Scottish
voice is gem and the England Shire voice is.
(04:11):
The England Shire voice is Vic. Unless I'm doing an accent.
Unless she's doing a really good.
Accent. It's not.
Don't say it's good because people will be like, that's
terrible. But it's when I try and
pronounce the Scottish places aswe've already experienced.
That's so apologies in advance because there are some Scottish
place names. In the.
Case of Scottish. Well, I didn't really do
(04:32):
anything this weekend, so I wentto a car boot sale.
A really good cheeseburger. That sounds like a good weekend
to me. It was good.
I disappointed as there's like alittle tea Hut thing.
Oh no. Val.
If you know, you know that hurts.
Sorry. That was a bit hard.
(04:53):
It was, I don't know, my own strength.
But I I was told by somebody outside the tea Hut that I could
expect pancakes on the inside. And they have been my current
food obsession. Although I had one today and I
only managed quarter of it. I think it's done.
But when I went in and looked atthe table with the snacks, I
said to the woman, yo, where's the pancakes?
(05:16):
Have they ran out smoking a pancake?
And she said, you know, we haven't done them since COVID.
That was like 5 or 6 years ago. Why is the guy outside telling
me there's? Why COVID be?
Because. Well, first you COVID another
thing. You're responsible.
They stopped in like after COVIDbecause everything had to be
individually wrapped, but their volunteer numbers dropped as
(05:38):
well so they don't have people to do the buttering and the
Raspberry jam. How on earth do you wrap a
pancake anyway? Do you prefer a fat pancake or a
crep? I prefer a crepe.
In fact, your mom makes really good.
Crepes. I make the best crepes.
You're speaking crepe anyways, so let's, let's, let's get on.
A lot of people don't like the banner.
I mean, whatevs, that's their personal choice I guess.
(06:01):
But come on then, Victoria, whatis the crap?
So I've didn't know if I was supposed to, but I've named my
episode, which is a little bit nerdy, but I just thought you
are, I've, you know, I've researched, I've written, I'm
going to name it. So this one is called Terra and
Tide. Rack tie rack like where I used
to work. Tide rack working as in Gump you
find on the beach. Oh my God, this is Victoria's
(06:24):
special subject. Is this an?
Actually true crime case or is this you just telling us what
you've picked up for the last year?
You don't want to tell people I pick stuff up on the beach.
She puts it back. OK, sorry.
Looking at the massive bit of driftwood behind me.
Oh well, I'm sitting on a shelf.That's going in my Monstera, so
yeah. I can't even see it.
I thought we were joking. No that.
(06:49):
Oh, sorry. Anyway, it was on the afternoon
of Wednesday the 12th of December in 1945, while a
retired Cooper named Alexander King combed a familiar section
of shoreline along the River Deein Aberdeen.
He was collecting driftwood for his fire.
Whilst he was there, he made themost gruesome discovery.
(07:09):
Gruesome discovery. Was it Donald Trump?
It was, oh, sorry, we don't do politics.
No, we don't. Who?
Who? Donald Duck.
Wait, can I just interrupt really quickly?
Go on. So for ages, my children thought
two things. First of all, they thought that
Boris Johnson was Doris Bonson, and they thought that Donald
Trump was the Donald from Donald.
(07:30):
Where's your true users? And they were old enough that
this year. Do you mean it's not that,
Donald? Oh, I'm sorry.
Oh. Illusion shattered.
Sorry, right, I'm going to be shushy.
Okay, so Alexander noticed something out of place.
A plump white object lay amongstthe stones and tide rack.
There's that word again. On closer inspection, Alexander
(07:51):
realised that what he was looking at was in fact a human
arm and hand. Now, in 1945, with the war
having recently ended, it wasn'ttotally unheard of for human
remains to wash ashore. However, Alexander was quick to
notice that the arm was bound atthe wrist with twine and he
promptly raised the alarm. Oh God.
I haven't heard this one. Alexander speed hastily with the
(08:14):
limb to a police box in VictoriaRd where he informed Detective
Superintendent John Westland of the discovery.
DS Westland was shortly after assigned to the case as lead
investigator and worked to identify the origin of the
remains. Began immediately And here's a
sciency bit. It really was fast this police
work. Police surgeon Doctor Robert
Richards was called in and tasked with the initial
(08:36):
examination of the limb. He stated that the left arm with
hand detached had belong to a female aged approximately 18
years, who had more than likely been alive 3 days prior to the
discovery. In 1945 they were able to work
that. Out.
I know, that's so clever. Hey, it's science.
He reported that although there were, there was already evidence
of animal activity because the back of her hand had been
(08:59):
nibbled away by crabs, the limb had likely been in the water for
less than 24 hours before washing up on the shore of the D
Rigour. Mortis had locked the nicotine
stained fingers into a claw likearch.
So hopefully I'm painting a goodpicture of this.
Think the thing the claw thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
(09:20):
And there was little evidence ofmanual labour.
The arm had been severed at the elbow using a knife and a saw
with small teeth, and Doctor Richards noted that the saw had
been used in multiple directions, and although the
wound was neat enough, it was too neat to be that of a
propeller or something similar to that.
It was decided that whoever had performed the disarticulation
(09:42):
was likely not a medical professional.
The arm and hand were bound loosely at the wrist by twine in
a granny knot, notably so loose that they believed there was
actually space for some sort of anchor, so possibly a rock which
had likely fallen free when the limb had been discarded.
Although most would have alreadyassumed this, it was stated that
(10:03):
a person with this kind of injury would likely have not
survived. Do they know if it was cut off?
Poster Perry Morton. I couldn't find that
information, but I think the assumption was.
Hopefully. Post Yeah, yeah.
So police searched. Oh, yeah.
So nevertheless, even though they, they think they're
looking, you know, they think this is a murder.
(10:23):
They don't think this person would have survived that injury.
They did. The police did search hospitals
for any female amputees, just tocover all bases.
It's been found with a missing. And the pace of the
investigation really was rapid, so within 4 hours of discovering
the limb, fingerprints have beentaken from the dismembered limb
(10:44):
and matched by police to those belonging to a young lady called
Elizabeth Haddon, who was not well known to the police but who
had previously been caught shoplifting.
Hence her information was on file.
So you use if you got caught forshoplifting but not convicted,
you used to get your fingerprints taken?
I have heard. I've heard her name.
You have. You probably have, Yeah.
(11:04):
So Elizabeth Elizabeth Haddon, also known as Elizabeth Ann
Craig but more commonly and affectionately known as Betty,
was a petite, dark haired young lady and recent school leaver
who was nearing her 18th birthday.
Oh. She wasn't even 18.
Yeah. It's so, yeah.
Can I interject a second? We also know that it can't be a
Barber because did you know thatback in the day, if you were
(11:27):
training to be a Barber, you went through a lot of anatomy
similar to what doctors went through in training so they
could, they knew how to wield a scalpel, basically.
See this ones interesting because by the end of it, by the
end of researching, I have my theories as to who it's not, but
not to who it might be. So this is an unsolved.
(11:51):
I think we would really like if listeners, after they hear your
whole tale, wade in. I'd love to hear as well if
there are any people local to the Aberdeen area who might have
heard stories and like this might have been a tale of.
War. Yeah, you know that this might
have been something that parentshad told their young daughters.
(12:11):
Don't go out at night, you know,because you'll end up like Betty
Haddon. Who knows?
I'd love to know if there are any local.
Yeah, that's interesting. So Betty usually resided with
her mother Kate and five siblings in Manor Walk, Woodside
in Tory. A Tory.
Tory, is it? Yep.
Oh, like that's what my parents used to call me.
Tory baby. And you don't like it, do.
(12:32):
You. I did.
Used to. So Tory is a small suburb of
Aberdeen lying on the South Bankof the River Dee.
Did I say it wrong again? Tori Tori.
No, you said it right. Think about Tori maybe?
Although she hadn't been home since early December, Betty's
absence was not a cause of concern as she would vacate her
(12:54):
widowed mother's home when looking for work so as not to be
an extra burden on the family. Supposedly.
Well, you can imagine with sevenpeople under one roof, it would.
You're going to have to switch her strings.
I couldn't find out about the siblings, but I'm assuming maybe
she was the oldest and so potentially that's why she was
going out to look for work. And yeah, there was little
information about the family other than there were five
(13:16):
siblings and a widowed mother and her her.
I think Betty's dad had died 2 years before, 2 years prior to
this. So Betty was presently
unemployed, but she had previously been employed as a
waitress, a kitchen maid, a factory hand, a fish worker and
other things. However, her mum told the police
that some of these jobs only lasted 3 days or so, so she
(13:39):
wasn't exactly committed to the hard labour.
Betty was said to have a fiery temperament and the neighbour
described her as a wayward sort of girl and a strong willed
girl. I think we'd probably go on with
that. The same name Neighbour
mentioned that Betty would drop in from time to time to smoke,
chat or to read a book. And Betty's mother, Kate, said
(14:01):
Betty was not a bad girl on Betty's character.
Others claimed she was. Well whilst we're on Betty's
character, others claimed that she was flirtatious and someone
described her as a lady of the night.
And although I don't think this necessarily has the same
connotations it does now. Betty was well known along the
waterfront in Aberdeen and oftenseen in the company of men.
(14:23):
But the waterfront area of Aberdeen in late 1945 was a hub
of activity with pubs and Taverns which were popular
amongst port workers and sailors.
Well. But it doesn't necessarily mean
what you might think. I think she probably was a sex.
Word I We can't rule it in or. Out.
But it's not, it's not a big stretch.
(14:44):
It's not a huge jump, is it? So once identified, the police
acted quickly in circulating a photograph of Betty, and in
fact, the local tabloid press responded by running an article
on the front page of the EveningExpress in the very same day.
Close those. Yeah, that is so fast moving.
They obviously had nothing else going on, the Grizzly headline
read. Compliment in one hand, taken
(15:05):
away with the other. The grizzly headline read Grim
find on Aberdeen foreshore sawn off arm and hand found foul play
suspected. It's like, no shit, Sherlock.
Thanks. Don't hit me.
Oh. Right in the shed, sorry.
I should have done my reflexes then and just kicked you in the
tush. I actually worried that your
(15:26):
reflexes don't work. I'm sorry, but you just hit me
on the head. I'm dead inside.
Investigations into Betty's whereabouts, including
eyewitness statements, quickly gleaned that on the Monday the
10th of December. But he had been out drinking
along the waterfront with a friend, Sheila Stewart, who was
21 years old, so a little bit older than Betty.
(15:47):
Their movements were well documented, although almost all
sightings that I found to refer only to Betty and not to Sheila,
which is probably common as she was the victim here.
So yeah, you would expect they may just be assuming that we
know that she was alongside her friend.
So. So at 7:00 PM on Market Street,
(16:08):
Betty was seen trying to attractthe attention of three sailors.
The witness said she was giving the sailors the glad eye.
Not the glad eye, the glad. Market Street is where we went
to that vintage kilo sale. Oh.
Right. OK.
Yeah. So that is, that's right down by
the harbour there. Yeah.
So that paints a good picture for me as well, because I did
have a look at a map and I was trying to sort of get my
(16:30):
bearings and figure it all out. So that's that's good.
You've been there. I've been there.
So by 7:15, so I don't think herglad I had much effect.
But by 715, Betty was seen walking with another girl,
assumed to be Sheila, and four fishermen who witnesses say were
possibly foreign. How they know this I couldn't
(16:53):
tell you. Maybe they had sombreros or
something. Sorry.
At 10:00 PM. Give me the giggles, he said.
Serious. This is serious.
It is because. At 10:00 PM, so quite some time
later, an eyewitness claimed to have seen Betty walking with two
sailors, arms linked, and the witness said she was she
(17:14):
appeared to be acting strangely,but I think that's a bit vague,
so. Was it somebody who knew?
Her it wasn't no. So it's it's I think that one is
a bit you could. Put it this way, if somebody saw
me walking down the street that didn't know me, they're probably
gonna say I was walking strangely.
Exactly. Yeah, that that would have to be
in context from I know what she's like normally too.
(17:36):
Yeah. So that's why I said that's a
bit vague. I do, yeah.
I could disregard that sighting.Eyewitness stay together are
never the best anyway. Not really, but if it was her,
it's said that they were headingtowards Union Street OK and at
10:30 Betty was spotted back in Castle Street by herself but
following closely behind 4 girls.
(17:57):
Then at 1245 S again couple of hours later.
Now this seems to be not only the last confirmed sighting of
Betty, but also the most reliable as this witness was a
friend of Betty's. Oh yeah, that makes sense.
And. This was in Upper Kirk Gate
where Betty had approached that friend to enquire about lodgings
for the night because she was living homelessly, or it was
(18:18):
believed that she had been living homeless for her last few
days. Anyway, the friend said that he
couldn't help but that Betty haddeparted in high spirits, waving
behind her and shouting Cheerio as she left.
Cheerio. I can't do a Scottish accent.
You do the cheerio. I can't do an Aberdeen accent,
but Cheerio. This was just 21 hours before
(18:38):
Alexander King made the discovery on the beach, but.
It really did happen quickly. Then whatever happened to her
happened, and then she was found.
And the police work as well. I'm, I am really actually quite
impressed with the scale. And I'll go more into what they
did. Yeah, even though they never got
the answers they wanted, I'm impressed with the work that
went in or the work they've reported.
(19:01):
Especially when she has been, people have described her as a
possible sex worker. We all know that nowadays it's a
fight for people in the sex industry to even be known as
missing or shared as missing. Yeah.
So yeah, good on them. I can't remember Detective West
all or something was. It it's some I was just going to
(19:21):
say about the sex industry as well.
It's Westland the detective, butwith I sometimes I wish the
media wouldn't necessarily, unless it's important to the
details or important to locatingsomebody.
I wish they actually wouldn't even mention it sometimes
because it demeans that that wassomebody, somebody's little
girl, somebody's partner, somebody's sister.
(19:42):
You know, it's and men as well. Sorry, you know men in the sex
industry that go go missing as well.
You just don't focus on that bit.
They were a human. I think if it's, if there's a
string of and it's sex workers being, what's the word?
Targeted. Targeted then fair enough you
can say that, but I almost thinkit's a way of saying this person
(20:04):
was a sex worker. So the rest, you other people,
you normal people can go and breathe a sight really awful.
But that's not true anyway, because most of these people
escalate, you know, people, we do do these crimes, they do
escalate and they will. They're opportunistic.
So everybody beware. Not not, you know, Yeah.
Anyway. So, yeah, it was Detective
(20:26):
Westland in the early hours of December the 12th.
So around 2:00 AM. This, this is a bit, this is
where the terror comes in. Maybe a little trigger warning?
Yeah, not necessarily. Is it?
Gory. No.
OK, I'm good then. I'm sorry.
No, no, I don't like worry. Now in the early hours of
December the 12th, around 2:00 AM, the quiet of the hollow
(20:49):
winter night was pierced by a blood curdling scream.
And this is how residents of a small area on the South side of
the river described the terrifying sound which rang
through the streets. So reports came in from
residents in and I've looked at the map and it's an approximate
half a mile radius. So not, not massive.
They listed a load of the streets, but I thought it's not
(21:10):
going to make sense. If you're listening in America
or something, you're just going to go from here.
So it's about a half a mile radius where these reported
screams. People actually do, they
actually reported. It so often the bystander effect
kicks in. And the oh good, these blood
curdling screams were were heardand reported.
And this was just hundreds of metres from the river and
(21:30):
slightly West of a golf course that's there which hadn't been
used much since the war. So I think it was pretty much an
abandoned wasteland if you can imagine by that.
You would know that. So it's unlikely that it's one
of these foreign sailors, as they were saying, not the way
that I would ever describe something.
Can I just say one thing during the war?
(21:52):
Sorry, I had to get. Out during the war, the lengths
Aberdeen City Police went to in this investigation was were
huge. As I've already mentioned,
Betty's disappearance was said to be the catalyst for one of
the most intense and prolonged operations the force had ever
conducted. So ships in the dockyard were
searched. Those on board were questioned.
(22:13):
The police tracked vessels that had been in Aberdeen on the
night of Betty's disappearance and intercepted them at their
next ports of call. That's nuts.
That is nuts. And this wasn't, sorry to
interrupt, but there was quite alot of murders in and around the
40s. So it wasn't like, oh look,
we've got something to do today.We're not getting cats out of
trees. No, I know.
(22:34):
It's honestly the the the scale of this that is impressive.
Isn't it? I'm glad they did that.
I'm glad they did that. The police were also witnessed
dredging the river from row boats.
They were seen wading in long boots and flat caps.
That it was actually said that the police swapped their police
hats for flat caps when they went into the river.
And they were using grapes, which I was like this is this is
(22:57):
not the fruit. Oh, whilst I never thought it
was whilst. Fruits have many, so many uses.
This was not now grapes. GRAIPS, which I think are kind
of pitchfork, like a long, you know, that American Horror Story
famous painting with the woman and her husband and she, they've
got the pitchfork. Nope.
(23:18):
Oh, anyway. But I'm going to look.
Up what a grape is when you're talking.
That's what they were using to examine the foreshore, which
also painted a pretty dark mental image in my head because
it's like, so you're just going along like stabby, stabby,
stabby to see what else you can find.
Like prod. No, that's a pole.
No, but they stab into the water.
(23:40):
Yeah, but they don't see if theycan like squidge it into you.
Don't know human. Remains.
Well, that they weren't. No, when they were doing that,
they weren't trying to squirt. They weren't trying to
pitchfork. What the other arm?
So they also used large magnets in case her body had been
anchored by something metal. Police forces also cooperated
(24:02):
along a 400 mile stretch betweenBerwick upon Tweed, which is the
most northerly county in England.
And John O'Groats, where I've just been, and they searched the
beaches. And so all these police forces
were sent out to search the beaches and the shoreline and
particularly places where they knew things washed up, because
you do get certain coves and things where you get a lot of
(24:22):
debris. But no other piece of poor Betty
was ever recovered. So it was noted that a human leg
had washed up after a storm in the Bullas of Buchan.
Am I saying is it? Buch Yeah, I taught you Buchan.
Buchan, I'm so sorry. I'm too old to learn new tricks.
(24:42):
Don't, because that's just buying into the women at Dakota
calling one of us a dog. Woof, woof woof.
No. So it was noted that human leg
had washed ashore after a storm in the Bullers of Buchan.
Hey, I did it sort of. This is approximately 30 miles
north of Tory, but this was determined to be that of a man
(25:06):
and not related to this case in any way.
Did they find out who it was or?They did say that that might
have been a seafarer, like somebody lost at sea, like a
fisherman or something. Sorry.
So, but no, don't say, ah, 'cause how many pirates have
wooden legs? So he's, he's all right.
He's got a stump now, probably. Why?
I'm sorry, I saw a man who builta Lego leg yesterday, and
(25:29):
instead of made out of Lego, he said it was made out of leg.
He never built it Yesterday. I saw it on a meme.
No, I was gonna ask. You said at the start that they
determined that like the person couldn't have survived.
Are they 100% sure she couldn't have survived?
That's all the reports that I. Read What about did her handbag
or anything like that to her not.
Nothing. Gosh, no, no shred.
(25:50):
Not like the last episode where you know, they they did find
things. There was nothing apart from her
arm and hand. So sad to think like that.
People can just disappear. Yeah.
And it's almost worse when one part of them is found.
Yeah, nothing else. And I think her friend said she
would have had there, there weredescriptions of what she was
(26:10):
wearing. I think she was wearing a green
or blue coat and she would have had cigarettes and things with
her but nothing. On I guess because she'd had
alcohol, she'd probably bled outeven quicker than she would
have. Oh, I feel really sad.
Yeah. Well, it there is a strange
twist here. Oh, so Sheila Stewart, the
friend that I mentioned had beenout on the night out.
Yeah, she'd disappeared and was now also reported missing an
(26:33):
article in the Sun on Thursday the 20th of December 1945.
So that's what, 8 days after Betty's arm was found?
That was the 12th. Wasn't it?
Yeah. So this is what the article
said. Wait.
And. Was she found again?
Sorry, I'm rushing ahead. You wait.
The mystery of Betty Craig, alsoBetty Hatton, whose forearm was
found on the foreshore at Aberdeen, has been intense by
(26:55):
the report that her 21 years oldfriend Sheila Stewart is
missing. She is believed to have planned
a visit to Glasgow, but the police are considering the
possibility that she too has been murdered.
Did. They see something.
This is really like sorry. Is this horrible?
No, it's a real like, oh, OK then.
Thankfully Sheila was traced some days later in Perth,
(27:17):
Scotland. That is thankful.
That is good. She was.
All right, to Glasgow. She was returned to Aberdeen
where she was questioned, but inthis I find a bit strange.
Wait, did she do a runner? That's what I'm wondering.
So there is little information about what Sheila had to say.
So she she wasn't given any information about the night in
question and I find that really peculiar.
That's probably why they don't mention her as much.
(27:40):
Could she one have had somethingto do with what happened?
Could she too have witnessed it and thought get out of dodge?
Because I don't want to be next.Don't have a three?
I built that up right. Well, I have a three for you.
Go on then. Did they have what we'd now call
a pimp? Did Betty say I'm not giving you
(28:01):
my money tonight and hers was used as a threat to the others?
Yeah, it's a scar. Yeah, making.
That's speculation completely. This is just my mind going to,
you know. It's plausible though.
It's plausible, I think, if she was a sex worker.
Did sex workers back then have? I don't like the word pimp, but
did they have somebody like a manager?
Yeah, let's go for a bananager. I don't know if they did.
(28:24):
There's something we'll have to find.
I I would say they did because if you think about Madam's in
brothels and things, that's much, much older.
Much. Yeah, 1617 hundreds.
They would have had somebody managing them.
Definitely plausible. And the sex trade is probably
the oldest. Well, it is the industry in the
world, isn't it? So it.
Is and it's ridiculous that it'sillegal, but.
(28:47):
Yeah, but but that was potentially another reason why
Sheila might not might not say anything or might have very
little to say to the police if she in fact was working in that
industry too. Notably as well, few of Bettys
male acquaintances were forthcoming with information.
So that does kind of that's. Horrible as well because the
police are working so hard to try and like her poor mother and
(29:12):
her siblings as well. I know.
Just because she didn't live with them just now, you know
that was circumstance. It doesn't stop you loving your
kids and it must be awful. And also she was away trying to
find work. That's what that's what they
said was like. She would go away when she
wasn't working so as to not be aburden because she wasn't
bringing an income into the house.
So she was trying and her mum said she was a good girl.
(29:34):
Yeah, 1 less mouth to feed. Yeah, police caught wind that
Professor Sidney Sweeney, a leading forensic expert, was in
the city and they invited him tore examine Betty's limb.
The professor concurred with thefindings of the police surgeon
and added that he had himself performed 2 surgical
dismemberments which took him approximately 2 hours.
(29:55):
He stated that someone with no professional knowledge of
anatomy would have taken far longer to perform the gruesome
act. But there wasn't much time in
between. And hang on.
So you're. So where were we at?
We were about 2:00 AM when she was last seen.
Yeah. By the friend that she was
trying to get boarding with. Yeah, and then the limb was
(30:16):
found at. 21 hours later. Yeah, 21 hours later.
So somebody with he sang with No, yeah.
Was the scream was at 2:00 AM Yeah.
So I think. Was Sydney Sweeney in town
before? No, this was a few weeks later
that I think they caught up with.
Him. Sorry, Professor Sweeney.
(30:37):
He was doing a talk at a college, I believe.
Some all right. OK, there is quite a big medical
students do go to Aberdeen so. You get ready for this though.
This is like, honestly the lengths they went to with this
investigation. This is 2 cases now where the
police have really pulled their finger out.
Yeah, yeah. Initially thinking that the
(30:57):
dismemberment itself must have taken place in a ship or
dockyard building because of theassumed time and.
You can't do it in the middle ofthe street.
Not gonna. Exactly.
They concluded that the remains must have been deposited between
Tuesday night and Wednesday morning, which we kind of, if
you're saying that, yes, that scream was Betty, yes, we kind
(31:17):
of would assume that too becauseshe was found Wednesday
afternoon. And the arm was not meant to
come back. Exactly.
But in order to try and determine where, so they wanted
to determine whether the arm wasthe body.
I suppose the remains were deposited from land or sea.
They concocted a rather peculiarsounding experiment.
(31:39):
Experiment. And I've put on my notes here.
Enter pig limb. Oh Yep, pig limbs weighing
approximately pig. Limbs, I know that's what you
should have called the episode, Yeah.
So the the pig's limb, piggy's limbs, weighing approximately
the same as Betty's arms, arm, sorry, were thrown into the sea
(32:03):
from various points on land and at sea.
To see where the return. To yeah, to try and determine
which would follow the same direction, because obviously the
currents do tend to. Follow the same direction.
Now the only limb that ended up on the same stretch as Betty's
arm had been deposited into the water at Tory, Tory, Tory, Tory.
(32:24):
I can't hang on two ticks. I can't understand why you would
cut somebody's arm off to then deposit of.
I don't get it. I imagine lots all of her went
in the. Water Well, if you think about
it, Professor Sweeney said it would take it takes him a couple
of hours to remove one limb. So if we're to believe that this
(32:48):
person with no training managed to cut off her head, both arms,
both legs, possibly her feet, that means.
So there was. Speculation some years later.
I haven't included this in my notes, but I did read about an
investigator more recently who so this isn't you know word for
word, but he speculated that shehad been put in some kind of
(33:11):
case or box and actually the armwas the only part they couldn't
squeeze in so they just chucked so they just chucked that one.
But for me I. Don't know where would the box.
The box would have been found, absolutely.
Yeah, you'd think. Unless it was buried.
Very, very. That poor girl, what did she do?
To go through. Wait, and you said somebody
else's a leg, could it have justbeen maybe there was a serial
(33:34):
offender? I know they thought the leg was
a seafarer, somebody lost at sea, but could there have been a
serial offender? Well.
It's always possible. Isn't cutting limbs off cutting
limbs off? And if you if you, maybe he was
making some kind of Frankenstein.
I knew you were going to be doing this sort of route.
You knew. You knew I was ready.
I. Was going to mention politics
but I shall not. No, don't do that.
(33:56):
So that so we were at the limb coming from they, they figured
from this pig limb experiment that it was deposited in Tory,
which is where she was from. And from this, the knowledge
that the killer or killers wouldhave needed a place where they
would have been undisturbed and the possible use of a vehicle,
because they did obviously vehicles, then the police
(34:17):
surmise that the killer was likely local and maybe even
known to Betty. So, and I think that seems more
likely than a lot of. So a lot of the early news
headlines mentioned the sailors that she'd been seen with.
I have an issue with that because a granny knot is
notoriously a bit crap. It's not a very secure knot.
(34:41):
And for me, seafaring people andsailors, no, they're not if they
want. But contradicting that her arm
was the only part of her whetheror not failed and it came to the
surface. So actually, could it have been
somebody who just rushed that last level?
You see my issue with the sailors?
Sorry, that's alright. Is that the live on board that
(35:04):
boat? How are they hiding the
equipment used? How are they getting back onto
that boat? They would be covered in blood.
Somebody would have seen something.
Well, not if they swam back ontothe boat.
Well then you'd be like, why didyou swim back on the boat?
You'd knob use the gangway. Check me with my lingo.
Check here with your sailor lingo.
(35:24):
So the interesting methods of the police used during this
operation didn't end there. So there is.
Is this pioneering? There is more is.
This pioneering why have I got no words today?
I blame early men like perimenopause.
Did they invent new methods? Is I guess what I'm asking?
Potentially pioneering methods of It's just good old fashioned
(35:47):
police work, isn't it? Because they look like the pig
limbs. Isn't that's not that's
something you have to think that's pretty.
Creative, isn't it? I think this, I think this
Detective Westland must have been pretty creative and pretty
open to people's suggestions, bythe sounds of it, which is good.
That makes an. Excellent team.
There's not enough of that and Ithink he has AI.
Think he looks like Des Lynam. Do you?
Yeah, bushy moustache. I think taller though.
(36:10):
Taller than Des Lynam, but. Was des Lynam or sorry is des
Lynam? I believe he's sure.
A little guy. I think so.
I'll find out. So the methods, these
interesting methods and these pioneering methods didn't go
there and there. So in in trying they they really
did seem to think of everything in trying to determine the
(36:32):
source of the screams heard during the early hours of the
12th of December. Female police officers and
clerical staff, they volunteeredfor this.
They were situated in various locations around Tory and asked
to scream at the top of their lungs, which is actually very
therapeutic for anyone who's never tried it.
I just go out into a field and scream.
It's amazing. Their scream stirred no response
(36:56):
from residents. No response they didn't hear.
They didn't see any little lights flicker on.
They didn't see any curtains twitching.
Nothing. And the experiment was actually
deemed unsuccessful. Did they go around the houses
and say like, did you hear something?
Why didn't you like? Did they check?
I don't know if they checked. Or did they could have put other
(37:17):
police officers in locations around the area and then had the
women scream so then the police officers could be?
They did have other police officers with them, so they but
the police officers were more, Ithink they were there to observe
the responses and reactions of the locals, of which there were
none. I would just like to say that
Victoria was wrong. Dais Lynam is 6 foot 2.
(37:40):
Get out. No, I won't.
Show me. Well, he's so 1.8, let me show
you. That's not a picture of him.
No, wait a SEC 1.88 metres is 6.2 feet.
Go back deadline on 1.8. He's not the bloke I was
thinking of thinking. Of.
(38:00):
Another grey head, Manny. Did he have a fishy moustache?
Yeah, I don't know who. I can't look up all the I'm
sorry, sorry days. So that one was unsuccessful
that experiment on Christmas. So this is still about the
screams on Christmas Day in 1945, Aberdeen CID issued this
statement. Information to the police during
(38:20):
the past few days has established that about 2:00 AM
on Wednesday the 12th of December, screams described as
being made by a female in terrorwere heard by several people at
different points in the Tory district.
If the person who screamed was not Betty Haddon, it is of vital
importance that the police learnwho that person was and nobody
(38:42):
came forward. I'm sorry my dog is huffing and.
Puffing the dog She's the CEO ofthe criminal.
She's the. DJ George Eyebrows.
Oh, she's just getting right. We'll just give it a minute and
let her get cosy. She's.
Making her bed. Is that an actual little bed?
Is it a little? It's a little cosy for her.
It's not, it's not. Yeah, she's got a nest.
She's got a Macard or pillow. Now she's huffing.
(39:06):
Tell everybody how old? Oh, George is 13.
She's so cool. She is my favourite potato.
Potato. Potato.
Oh, we might get into trouble for that.
Gemma's about to grow potatoes, but not little George's, even
though I would love. That, that would be amazing.
But she's about to grow potatoesin a washing basket.
Perhaps she could send me some advice?
(39:27):
Potatoes. Potatoes.
So from the screams on the Southside of the river to the last
sightings, to the wild experiments with pig limbs,
police were certainly focusing their attention on Tory itself.
And a police spokesman said we shall go through Tory yard by
yard now apparently, and this amused me, apparently old Tory
(39:48):
housewives were very house proud.
And so news of the intense houseto house inquiry sparked a manic
cleaning frenzy. Which is what you want when
you're looking for evidence. With women scrubbing their steps
twice and outhouses and you've got to wonder if one of them
unwittingly washed away some crucial evidence.
Let's get rid of this secondary.Crime.
(40:10):
It's just that it did make me like, I just sort of head slap,
you know that bit. Yeah, don't.
Don't mention what you're doing and also are you supposed to
wash your steps you. Are on your front door, you
don't care. Why this all things like in your
endo to me what I would be called in Aberdeen's a clatty
(40:33):
midden. She's a clatty midden.
What's your curtains? Your skank.
Don't talk about curtains, because you know what that's got
me thinking? Just get on your your tail.
Right. So this is a bit later.
Obviously Betty's arm was preserved in a jar.
This is just a little factoid for you, but it's a jar was
preserved in, well, not a Marmite jar.
(40:54):
We're not sponsoring my right and we never will be.
I love Marmite. Yum.
Betty's arm was preserved in a jar and used by John Nickel as a
macabre prop during a lecture onpolice work.
It was held. Oh.
No, no, I don't like that. A prop I know.
It was held at Marrichal College.
Marshall, Marshall. I think it's Marshall, Marshall.
(41:16):
Wait a SEC. So her family weren't given.
They probably couldn't afford tobury her, but.
He actually there were talks of him holding it up to the light
for all the people to see and stuff.
It was held at the college untilthe mid 90s when the when the
college relocated and the arm was discarded for the second.
Wait a SEC, at what point as a either a police student or a
(41:39):
medical student, whoever was there, do you not know what an
arm looks like? Why do you need to see one in a
jar? That's that's really irked me.
That's annoyed me. That's so disrespectful.
What irked me was the thought ofthis.
Was I in my notes? I I wondered if a fresh
scientific examination now, had they have not discarded the arm
(42:00):
for the second time, it could have gleaned more answers.
And the police reportedly had suspects in mind all those years
ago, including two sailors who had supposedly been seen with
Betty just 14 hours before the limb was discovered.
But I'm reluctant to believe it was a sailor for the reasons I
said. Before because I don't agree.
I don't think they do an unreliable knot.
(42:21):
I also think somebody needed a place, you know, to do this
dismemberment, and a local sailor would be.
Or no, and you're not going on the boat.
Oh, sorry, Captain. Captain Aberdeen Police still
hold a box within their archivescontaining files related to this
case, which I would love to haveaccess to, but it does say it's
(42:42):
a closed file in the sense of itis not a public record.
Right, well that makes me wonderas well.
What's the name file? So it contains files, I think it
was 1 box containing multiple files related to the case of the
murder of Elizabeth Haddon closed to the public.
But it would be interesting. I want to see what shifted their
(43:04):
focus so abruptly to Tory and away from the Dachshund
shipyard, which they'd focused on quite a a lot because of
where she'd been seen. But also, you know, they were
talking about these sailors, they were talking about all
sorts of things down at the shipyard and dockyard until was
it just the scream? Because if it was just the
(43:24):
scream, what if that wasn't her?What if they've shifted all this
focused Tori when actually it was down at the dock somewhere?
Or was it somebody just with a car?
It's just driven her away. There are so many unanswered
questions and I would love to get my hands on those files.
I wonder if is there a book about this?
Did you find a book at all? I haven't found.
(43:44):
Anything else? About no.
There's lots of reading. Lots and lots.
There's lots of even the newspaper articles and I took a
lot from the Press and Journal. From press and journals.
Brilliant. There is one book actually,
which I referenced the it's justa Google book, which was.
The name will come later. We'll put it in the blurb
because I've just got. The we'll discuss.
(44:05):
Reference the link is PT-65 and LPG PT-65 and that's no use.
To you. Oh, the end of that was a Morse
code. So I doubt now that the mystery
of Betty Haddon's disappearance will ever be sold.
Sold. Don't say so.
Well. And I wonder too, this got to me
a little bit. So I wonder how much less we
(44:27):
might know if that one anchor had not slipped loose.
So if she, if it hadn't allowed Betty's arm to surface on the
shore of the Dee that day, she would have just been a miss.
How many missing people, you know, they're just gone without
a trace. And would another missing girl
have sparked one of the largest police investigations in
Aberdeen history? I don't think it would.
(44:48):
I think she would have unfortunately been passed as a
case, a missing, missing girl who was, you know, this fiery
temperament who had potentially been a sex worker, who was a
living homeless. I don't think if that granny's
not had slipped, we would not know her.
We didn't know her name and thatmakes me think because I'm a bit
of a believer in fate, there wasa reason that that happened and
(45:11):
maybe it was just to get her name out there.
But back then did they have the seven-year rule for declaring
her dad? I don't know because I do wonder
5. You would think back then it
would have been needed because then at least her mum not, I'm
not talking about compensation, but it might have helped her mum
out a little bit. But I was going to ask where her
grave was because I just sort ofassumed that they would have
(45:33):
buried her arm. Or I should look that up.
They must. They must have a they must have
a spot for a memorial. They must, and if they don't, we
should create. One, we'll look into that and if
we can find it, we'll do a little day trip one day and go
and show you everything. So whilst researching this as
well, I found a piece of artworkby somebody called Edward Gory.
(45:54):
We don't know that it's about Betty, but if you look at it,
it's got a foreshore in the background.
It's called Had Elizabeth only known it was painted in 1946, so
one year after Betty Had This has got amazing and it's a
really grotesque picture of a naked woman with no arms from
the elbow. Being looked into this.
(46:15):
Being being hung off a shipping hook and I have looked into this
guy because I wanted to see if he ever visited Scotland and he
did but not until the 70s apparently.
But he was in the military and. Knife skills.
There is just something about this this picture that I just
thought it's got to be relating to her.
(46:36):
I will put the link in our blurband everything so you can check
the picture out for yourself. Maybe do some sleuthing, I don't
know. Why would somebody do that?
I know, I don't understand why. He's into sort of macabre and
grotesque things anyway, by all accounts, but not.
Does it have to be based on a real person?
Which obviously. We don't know that it is that it
(46:57):
looks. Yeah, it's got Elizabeth.
And had Elizabeth only known? Almost sounds threatening.
Had she only known that I. Who he was?
Yeah, exactly. I know.
Another thought I thought that Ihad that I did jot down the arm
being dismembered with a knife and a saw, that says to me that
it wasn't planned. They weren't necessarily well
(47:18):
practised in dismemberments because.
They thought it'd be quicker andthen they resorted to the saw.
Yeah, and wait that they so an alternative.
Tool. Yeah, so was available.
That's it. So were they at home?
Were they in an outhouse or a workshop?
Did they have a kill kit? Was it was a kill kit thing in
1945? Was it this a Dexter style?
(47:38):
I've got my rollout baggie, you're thinking.
Of Dexter? No, the kill kick guy.
I know Jaris Bonson, I know exactly who he is, and people
will be screaming. Oh what BTK?
No, he wasn't the kill kit guy. He had a kill kit.
No, the guy I say yes. Free icing I.
(48:00):
Can't get online to find it. Carry on.
I'm going to come back. Yeah.
Kill kits all over America. This guy.
You'll have to do that one. I don't know that one.
I probably do you. Will Israel keys?
OK, I will do Israel keys. You should.
Yeah. It's a it's horrifying.
But yeah, I wondered if, you know, could this have been a
kill kit? Could he had some he had a go to
(48:21):
when? It was a tree.
So also she worked in a fish place, you know, as a fish
worker. And I thought, OK, could this be
somebody who is used to going fish with a knife and going, oh,
well, you know, I can do this. And then going, oh, knife's not
going to cut it. We're going to need like.
Not a knife. Not a knife.
This knife is spoony. We're going to need, you know, a
(48:44):
saw. So could it have been be
goodbye? Yeah, that's not Essex.
I don't know why I went Essex. Oh, we are gonna.
We're gonna have like a cat. This isn't we.
We're not don't it, no. Can we just go back as well as
to maybe so she was looking for work.
A lot of people would have been looking for work around that
time. So a lot of tradies would have
been looking for work, tradies, joiners, plumbers, all that sort
(49:07):
of thing. So maybe somebody travelled with
a kid. Oh, I.
Thought you were gonna say maybeshe was really good at getting
fish and they didn't want her tohave the job.
No, but I I doubt that. You think I'm thick, don't you?
No. A little bit.
No. Wow, that's I have heard of the
case before. I thought that her mum was
something to do with this is me.I've I've obviously got it
(49:29):
completely wrong but in my mind she lived with her mum and her
mum it was like a brothel. But then I've obviously got
mixed up between cases, which isquite normal for me because I I
read so much. And have you got mixed up
though, I mean. Well, it's really interesting.
It's really interesting. There are a lot.
Yeah, go Google this because there are lots of images, there
are lots of not of of the armouror anything like that.
So. We will have few groceries up on
(49:52):
our Instagram. Yeah, so from each episode.
I mean, there's even, you know, these women, these housewives
that decided to go on this mad cleaning frenzy.
They were even like, oh, come in, have a cup of tea to the
officers and stuff. And so there are a couple of
pictures of the. Stranger danger guys, I.
Know right come on you trust thepolice well you said you did in
(50:12):
the day I trust individuals and actually it seems like this was
a police forced to trust at the time pull in all stops and.
Unless there was a reason for it.
Yeah, yeah, there's lots of unanswered questions there.
I do wonder why Sheila was so quiet about that night and her
sudden evading Aberdeen and. I'd like to see if we can find
(50:33):
more information about that. I'd also like to look into the
ancestry archives, see if we canfind the siblings and see if any
of them befell anything. Yeah, sometimes.
Or if did any? Family members later on in life
go and look into the case. Maybe we've missed something
and. Like the case you did last week,
you know the family will never, ever give up and I can quite
(50:55):
imagine we've I can imagine Betty's closest people would
want to find her. Obviously I can't imagine her
mum having a lot of spare time if she's got five siblings, but
I can imagine there being peopleto rally around.
And just one. Sensors.
Whereas now, nowadays, we're notafraid to go and ask questions.
(51:16):
Plus, women have changed betweenthen and now a lot.
Yeah, I guess back then, women still were kept in a certain
place and daren't ask questions,especially not of like an
inspector or something like that.
Whereas you and I, for example, would be like, Nah, this, this
doesn't make sense. There must be something else
(51:39):
going on here. Definitely, we've got those
kinds of minds that probably race ahead, but sometimes it's
valid, you know, I think who. Was your speculation you had a
speculation about who you thought you might be able to
link it? To no, no, I thought I was just
rolling out sailors, which they clung to for a long time because
she'd been seen with sailors, because it was a knot.
(52:00):
But I don't think I said already, I don't think they'd
have used an unreliable knot. That could have been a ruse.
It could have been a ruse. I can't remember where the knot.
So the knot was still the, the binding was still around her
wrist, around her wrist, but it was loose enough that they
thought there must have been some kind of anchor.
(52:20):
Obviously they didn't know it was a rock because otherwise
they wouldn't have gone on to dothe magnet sort of fishing thing
to try and. And the magnet thing would have
found a box if that theory was right.
Well. Not if it was a cardboard box.
A cardboard. Box would find a great car but
everything would have floated out.
But it's bound to have had Is itnot like treasure chest heroes?
So it would have like bolts and.Buckles.
(52:42):
There would have been a lot of debris in the D so.
Sorry, that wasn't easy to say, was it?
You had to have a bit like you need a space debris in the D.
There would have been a lot of debris in the water around the
UK because of the war, because of the huge industry.
But there's also a lot of Nets set up when you think about it,
(53:02):
in and not in and around Aberdeen.
You don't go in and you can get caught in the net, but you know,
in the waters there, there must be a lot of Nets.
So was there nothing? Oh God, you could.
Honestly this took me down such a rabbit hole of I just wanted
to, I wanted an answer. And that's the trouble with
unsolved. And I apologise that we've done
(53:25):
2 unsolved. I'm not two weeks running.
We don't know what each. Other are doing.
That's the thing, we don't know what each other's cases are
going to be. So it might happen again.
And hopefully it's been interesting enough that you'll
go do your own research. Go find, tell us, tell us if you
find anything out. Tell us if if I've said anything
which you think no, I'm contradicting that.
Have we made a mistake in any ofour episodes?
(53:47):
We welcome constructive criticism.
If you come on and just be rude you will get blocked if you've
not realised already. Unless it's fun.
If it's really funny, you know. I'm going to tell you something
funny in a second. Oh, because it's to do with when
you spoke about wooden legs, butjust give me a SEC, OK?
And as I say, like we won't, Victoria and I are very of the
(54:09):
people. I guess you could say we.
Are the people? We are.
So without going too much into it, if you look at what's
happening in America and what happened here recently with
regards to the law, this is not something that we believe in.
People are people, end of. So this morning my son said, oh
mum, I've got a joke for you. And I said OK, go on then.
(54:31):
And he said right, there's this guy and he lost his eye.
OK, OK. And they gave him a wooden eye,
which I always used to think youcould see out of a glass eye,
but now I'm wondering if they made the right of wood if that
was possible. But anyway, this guy got a
wooden eye and he went to a party one night and he saw this
most beautiful girl and he was looking across at her and she
did have a big nose, but he justthought she was stunning.
(54:52):
He went over and he introduced himself and and he said to her,
I'm just wondering, would you like to come out on a date with
me? And she went would I?
And he went shut your face, big nose and stopped off.
And I said, oh, that's made me really sad.
I don't like that. So we had to add a story to the
end of it where they got over. She said, no, I didn't mean
(55:13):
you're wood and I and he said, you've got a beautiful nose.
It was the first thing I saw. And then they got married.
There was a lot to unpack there.References for all episodes will
be on our Facebook initially. We are working on a website.
Victoria's the blogging. I'm just smiling about her son's
joke. That's better.
(55:33):
Ones but it did make me sad. I nearly cried.
Oh no, they weren't meant to be together.
Can you imagine the babies? I did say that.
They were tough, three eyes and one looking at them you're.
Such a Dick. Of course you can't see through
a glass eye. Well, I just.
It's just there for vanity, not vanity.
No, that's terrible. It's not vanity, but it's not.
(55:53):
It's just symmetry. That's what it's there.
But I wouldn't eye what are theydrawing on with a sharpie, The
pupil? I don't understand.
Imagine what you could do though.
It's like I liked her from Kill Bill.
You know the one with the patch?They're all Hannahs character
with the patch. I just thought you'd have so
many different patches. Wouldn't you'd have a Halloween
patch? And like, Gabrielle had that
really nice blingy ones. Remember Gabby?
(56:14):
Yeah, yeah. Anyway, all references will then
we'll soon be on a blog of sorts, which will also include
basically our written notes for each episode as well, so if you
want to go and have a read, you can.
And bear in mind this is done inand around our working lives,
(56:36):
our family lives. And once again, we are brand new
to this. So it's it's all.
It'll get better. It's a learning, it's all.
Learning and it's all and hopefully we'll bring you some
interesting cases that you mightnot have heard before.
You might have. You might know every last detail
of them. Well, I can tell you that the
next case coming is Auk case andit is a solved case and it's not
(56:56):
a very old case. Sorry, that was a little bit
abrupt there. I cut it off in the edit as I
remembered that I hadn't done a shout out that I meant to.
So this is Jem at a later date. Adding in the shout out, it's
for a friend called Samantha McKay and her friend Victoria
(57:17):
Harvey. They are two best friends who
are on a mission to raise funds for two causes close to their
hearts, Milne's Nursery and Fokivers and the For Covers Fire
station. Now these girls are bonkers in
my opinion. On June the 1st they're doing
the kilt walk, which means they'll be hiking 80 miles from
Banchory to Duffy Park in Aberdeen.
And then they're doing a bungee jump, a tandem one on June the
(57:38):
12th, which I told you they're abit bonkers.
I'm going to share their page onour criminal crack page, but I
just wanted to give them a little shout out.
So good luck ladies. We are rooting for you.
On that note, I think it's probably time to go.
Wrap it up. We'll see.
You next time baby, thank you for listening.
(57:59):
Goodbye. Bye bye.
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