Episode 3: Red Flags Missed

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi Gem here, just popping in to apologise for any sound issues
you may hear in today's episode such as faint ghost like talking
in the background and some wonkyvolume.
We discovered some technical issues after we had recorded.
Please remember we're still verynew and while I have tried my
best to rectify the issues, there may still be some in the

(00:21):
recording. Thank you, I hope you enjoy the
episode. Banging and shouting startled
Mariam Abbas awake in the early hours of Friday the 13th of
September 2024. She lay there for a few moments,
half asleep, trying to understand where the noise was
coming from. It seemed to be from the flat
directly above her own. Fear gripped her upon hearing a

(00:43):
weird voice the likes of which she had quote, never heard,
never experienced End Quote in her life before.
Getting out of her bed and goingout of her front door, she found
another neighbour on their shared landing.
The day 2 had been awoken by thegoings on above and had come to
investigate. Hi, I'm Jen.

(01:26):
And I'm Vic. And we are on episode 3, Episode
3 of. The criminal crack I can't
believe. It I can't believe it either,
but it's really exciting. But do you wonder when we're
going to stop telling people what episode number we're on?
I know I think some people mightnot want to listen in order as
well, so we might have to just mix it up a bit, but we could
just tell you where this is Episode 27.

(01:47):
Even though it's episode 30, that would be dastardly
dastardly. We'd like to say a massive thank
you for the support we've had since Episode 1, which was only
a week. Ago.
Yeah, it was only. It only went live for you guys a
week ago and it's just done so well.
I can't believe how many of you have listened.
We've just filmed a little celebratory video for you in the

(02:10):
garden, which was funny because Gemma's a tool now.
She's a very, very, very clever girl.
I am. But for the first video, she
thought it would be Ding to filmwithout the microphone on.
And I said some really, really deep and profound things.
It was Oscar worthy. It was the most.
If there was anything that couldprove to you just how clever

(02:32):
Gemma is, it was the words that she said in those they were
heart in those moments. They came from the heart and
birds stopped tweeting and just watched and listened because
they. Fell from the sky.
I was going to say. That, but it sounds Why do birds
suddenly appear every. Time I am near.
Oh, that makes me think of open Season 2.
Brilliant film. I wanted to say something I've

(02:55):
forgotten. Oh, we are recording in advance
at the moment because we want tomake sure that we've definitely
got content out on time. But when we get in a rhythm, I
think I've talked, talked, spoken her into, spoken to.
She has talkated. Me into.
Weekly episodes, hopefully. Potentially, I said.
I would like to get enough in the bag so that we can just so

(03:17):
that it doesn't become a chore, so that we still enjoy enjoy it
and also we've got enough good content to bring you.
We don't want to do a half assedjob so.
We don't. We want to use our full arse for
every single episode. Why both?
So I'm just going to tell you something, this episode is going
to be a long and so buckle up. I did think about making it A2
parter and releasing the second part the day after the first

(03:40):
one, but I think I've managed toget it all in.
It's a tough one, a really toughone to hear.
It includes murder, child murder, discussion of sex,
sexual assault and a possible mental illness.
When I'm editing, I, I'm going to give you a trigger warning at
1 certain point and when I'm editing, I'll try and take note
of the time that that is so thatI can put some notes later in

(04:03):
the Spotify a little bit so you can tune out and tune back in if
you want to. I will be sharing everything in
a respectful and factual way. And this respect obviously
extends to you guys. I'll not be giving details in a
salacious way. It's not really what I do.
So please don't worry about that.
All our sources will be shared to Facebook for you and I'd like
to point out that when the perpetrator was caught he talked

(04:24):
a lot. So loads of what I'm sharing
today is first hand. I'm really interested.
I think you will know this case.I definitely think people
listening might know of the case, but if they're like me and
I'm really into true crime, I learned a lot.
So tell me, what's the crack, Gemma?
Well Victoria, today I'm going to share with you the murders of

(04:46):
Juliana Kyle and Giselle Prosper.
Ringing any bells? No.
Not at the moment. Okie Dokie.
So just a heads up, some of the information that I have on the
victims in this case has been translated from Spanish into
English and I used Google Translate.
I hope I used it properly, but if you notice any mistakes in my
interpretation then please feel free to reach out and let me

(05:08):
know. And blame Google Translate.
You know what it makes me think of, you know, you get I'm I'm a
like meme or meme queen. I don't know what I'm supposed
to say if it's a meme or a meme.Meme doesn't sit right with me,
but meme's not right apparently.But anyway, you know the one
meme, it's like something like it'll be a T-shirt and it's got
like Chinese writing or something.

(05:28):
But when you translate it back or if somebody who doesn't know
the language that they're translating and it's something
just really ridiculous. Why, have you got petrol on your
arm or something? Yeah, it makes me lol.
I I see. When I worked in Greece when I
was younger, in my youth, I offered to translate a menu for
a bar out there that did food and they made jacket potatoes

(05:50):
like baked potatoes. No.
And apparently I translated it into literally coked potatoes.
It wasn't sherp potatoes, I suppose, but cold.
Potatoes sounds nice. It does.
Potatoes. Potatoes.
Julian, sorry. Julianne, of Balcon was born in
the coastal city of Mar del Plata in the Buenos Aires

(06:13):
province of Argentina in 1976 and according to the local
newspaper in her region, La capital Juliana, went to her
local elementary school, then onto a secondary school which
specialised in the arts. It's called the Poly Valent
Institute of Arts and it looks really cool because I had a nosy
on Facebook. I think they've just celebrated
50 years. That's.

(06:33):
Cool, I might have made that up.At age 20 she made a brave move
by leaving her homeland and travelled all the way to
England, which became her home for the next 20 years.
Sorry, that's the chair. If you remember from episode 1
at Farts she is said to have hada natural aptitude for
languages, meaning that she picked up English very quickly
and assimilated into the local culture so well that people

(06:53):
actually thought she was born and bred UK.
Oh wow. But she must have been really
good at I. Do think sometimes it's shameful
how ignorant British people are with languages because you go to
Europe and they all speak English.
But it's very clever. And some of their languages, I
did French and German at school and I, I loved languages.
And now the only thing I can really remember in German is a

(07:15):
song, which I'm not going to start because my ADHD will make
me sing the entire thing. But it's about just different
foods. And when I worked at Long Tall
Sally in Edinburgh, the Tall Club, which is a real thing,
came to visit us in the store and there were some German
people. And I just burst into song and
while they stood there and just looked at me, I remember.
Remember somebody, a German couple, asking me where the bus

(07:36):
stop was in German, and I responded in German without a
second thought. I'm surprised myself so much
that I actually went. I knew, I remembered that I
retained that information, that very important information.
Children Julianna's early years in the UK, she met a marriage
rape prosper and the couple wenton to have four children.

(07:57):
There's not a huge amount of information really regarding
anybody in this case, but specifically the children, but
I'm going to share what I have. First came Nicholas, then Kyle,
then Giselle, who were aged 1816and 13 respectively at the time
of the atrocities we will be talking about today.
I haven't found out much about the fourth child, but I'm

(08:17):
thinking that they're probably underage and their name's not
been released. They weren't involved in what
happened and maybe they were living with Ray at the time of
the incident because from what Ican see, Ray and Juliana were no
longer together. So maybe I know that everything
says she was a single parent, 3 children, so maybe the 4th child
lived with Rae. Julianna was also a volunteer at

(08:37):
the Keach Hospice, a local charity for all ages offering
end of life care, which from region the website.
I think that's quite unusual forit to be a mix of ages in a
Hospice. I don't know, you might correct
me on that. Yeah, it sounds unusual, I
think. Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know, but it sounds unusual to me.
Julianna, who was known to be patient and empathetic, loved

(08:59):
her role there. She was loved by staff and the
patients and as well as volunteering, she was also part
of the Hospice fundraising team called the Gamble Girls, which
was named after Ed Gamble, but not the Ed Gamble you're
thinking of. This was a guy who was a patient
and had asked actually passed away at Kate House.
I think he had. I think on the website it said
he maybe had a brain tumour. In her spare time though I doubt

(09:22):
she had much of it. She was a keen athlete,
particularly enjoying running and she was known by many to put
other people's needs and feelings before her own, and
none more so than her children. They were her true passion in
life and it was obvious they were in her entire world.
I will tell you about Nicholas shortly, but let me tell you
what I know about his siblings first.
So 16 year old Kyle was a pupil at the Cardinal Newman Catholic

(09:44):
Skill on Skill school on War Gordon Hill, Luton.
He appears to have had a steady group of friends, he was popular
and he was really into sports. I was known to be quite funny.
At the time of her death, Giselle was a year 9 pupil.
So what age did I say she was? 13?
And I don't really understand the English school system so I'm
just going to hope that I got year 9 right at the Lee Manor

(10:05):
High School on Northwell Drive in Luton.
Statements by the school described her as quote, a
beautiful soul, a model pupil and someone who excelled in the
subject she took. Other comments shared about her
work that she was popular amongst her peers, was very
bright and had an infectious smile.
On Thursday the 12th of September 2024, she, Mean and
Juliana, Kyle and Giselle get said good night to each other

(10:28):
and headed to bed in their 8th floor home in the middle block
of 3/14 Storey Towers on Woolwood's Bank Drive in Luton,
little knowing that this would be the last time they would ever
be saying goodnight to anyone. Nicholas too was in his room in
the family home, but he wasn't there to go to sleep.
And before I go into what he wasdoing, I want to go back in time

(10:48):
and share with you a bit about Nicholas's life so you can see
how things maybe occurred later in the episode.
I'm going to jump about the timeline a little bit so
hopefully he can keep up. And if not, I'm sure Victoria
Flag if she's not clear on anything.
So as I said previously, Nicholas was the first born son
of Ray and Juliana Prosper. He arrived on the 18th of
December 2005 and as he grew up he was known to be a shy, quiet

(11:10):
boy, though he did have a small group of friends who all shared
his keen interest in computers. When it came time for him to be
enrolled in school, his parents chose Saint Joseph's Catholic
Primary School in Luton, where it was said he settled in well.
By the time Nicholas was 16 and was in sixth form, his teachers
began to realise that he'd become quite isolated.
He no longer appeared to have a group of friends.

(11:31):
I was coming more and more insular.
So teachers met with Juliana andRay about this.
I'll mention the possibility that he might be on the autism
spectrum. After the meeting they relayed
this information to their son, but unfortunately he refused to
see a GP or accept any support or help, even though it was
clear he was struggling. Following on from this, his mum
and dad again spoke to the school as they had more concerns

(11:53):
about him and at this point theywere getting extremely concerned
about his mental health, though we don't have any more details
on these concerns. I wonder if this is because
Nicholas was pulling away from them and preferred to be alone
than with them or other family members.
It's always a worry isn't it? It is.
I'm sure most parents in this situation would be sad and
worried for their child and wantto do more, but from what we
know, like from what we know now, I'm guessing he was far

(12:15):
beyond accepting any help As forthe last year he'd been making
terrifying plans. Can be a.
Sign of depression, can't it? When you isolate and stuff,
yeah. Some people are quiet and want
to spend time on their own, and they're just happy that way.
But for some people, there's more too small.
Yeah. So we're going to go back again
to Friday the 13th. During the hours of midnight and

(12:36):
5:00 AM. While his family slept, Nicholas
was very busy indeed. In between watching what has
been described as, quote, extremely violent and graphic
animated pornography, he was online conducting more research
and finalising plans for the rest of his day.
Now, from here on in, I'm going to be referring to Nicholas only
as prosper, as this is how he's identified the most sources I've

(12:57):
used. And as you're aware from when I
start talking, a lot of this information comes straight from
the horse's mouth. Now, these daily plans he was
making were not the plans of a typical 18 year old.
In fact, they were far from it. So typical 18 year old, what
were we doing at 18? Oh, don't.
Ask me that. What was I doing at 18?
I worked at Asda. I worked.

(13:17):
I was in Edinburgh. At.
Ann Summers at. 18, I think so. I'd have been terrified to work
somewhere like that at 18. Yeah.
I went from Ann Summers to the prison to work.
I didn't get arrested. That's.
What? She said these plans were not to
be the plans of a typical 18 year old.
Nicholas was preparing to murderhis mother, his younger brother
and then his little sister whileeach of them slept.

(13:39):
However, familicide was not enough for him.
This was only the initial stage of his three-part plan.
Now just a little factoid for you.
Familicide is only, you can use that word only if one of the
parents at least has been killed.
If he killed his siblings but not a parent, it wouldn't be
familicide, OK? And if it's just the parents,
it's packed aside. Yeah, yeah.

(14:00):
With you. Originally, when the second part
of the plan was discovered by those investigating this case,
the information was not going tobe released to the public.
However, this decision was laterchanged and is why we now have
access to the following. Investigators learned Prosper
was obsessed with school shootings and according to a
statement later made to Sky Newsby Detective Chief Inspector Sam

(14:22):
Khanna or of Bedfordshire Police, Prosper, quote, had
researched all school shootings across the world in the last 15
to 20 years. And when I say researched, he
was meticulous in detail. This would include, of course,
the most lethal mass shooting inBritish history which took place
in the small town of Dunblane and Perthshire.

(14:42):
This tragedy happened on March the 13th, 1996.
And while I'm not going to go into the full details of what
happened within the local primary school that day, I will
share that a school teacher and pupils, 18 people in total, lost
their lives that day, with a further 15 being injured at the
hands of a gunman who terrorisedthe whole school before taking
his own life too this. Time I ever remember a new story

(15:03):
making me cry other than the whales that were trapped in the
ice when we were little but thatreally I couldn't get my head
around those innocent children Icouldn't do it but the.
Case that fascinated prospered the most and in fact became his
main motivation for his plan wasthe Sandy Hook Elementary
shooting in Newton of its Newtown, Fairfield County in the
state of Connecticut in the United States on the 14th of

(15:26):
December 2012. This school became the scene of
what can only be described as a massacre.
Now a quick sidebar. I'm not naming either of the
perpetrators in this case or theone before as I don't believe
they deserve to have their namesmentioned.
But the people who do deserve will be named at the end of this
episode and I'm going to get Victoria to read out some of
them. As in Dunblane, a shooter

(15:47):
entered Sandy Hook on this day and shot and killed 26 people.
These innocent victims were 26 to 7 year old children and six
members of school staff. The gunman then killed himself
when first responders began to arrive.
Prior to arriving at the elementary school, the shooter
had also gunned down his own mother.
Prosper, it would seem, was particularly fascinated with by

(16:09):
Sandy Hook, or more specificallythe shooter.
He wanted to emulate this personperson's actions, but on a
bigger scale. Later, DC Khanna would share
that Prosper had said that he wanted quote to be known as
being responsible for the biggest school shooting on
record. His aim was to take the lives of
at least 30 people, starting with his family and followed by

(16:30):
staff and pupils at his old school, St.
Joseph's Catholic Primary Schoolon Gardenia Ave in Luton.
Now, if you think there must have been more motivation for
him to do this, you'd be wrong. By his own admission and
confessions later in the case, he admits, he was never bullied
or held any grudges towards thatschool or anybody in it.
Rather, it was his familiarity with the layout of the school

(16:52):
and his knowledge of the security situation there that
made this choice for him. How bizarre.
So there's nothing that Nope drove.
I mean, normally you imagined that there's been some form of
abuse or bullying A. Reason this.
Usually a motive we have. No idea even now.

(17:12):
I mean it only he went to gaol last year but we have no idea
why he is like this at all. That's.
More scary than it is, you know,you hear about some serial
killers and things and they've had a brain injury, they've had
a frontal lobe thing. There's a reason, some not a
reason, not a justification, butyou know they have you can find

(17:33):
something in their history. Usually that's points in the
catalyst of something. Well, even if you.
Think about terror. Terrorism.
Although nobody agrees with terrorism, these people feel
like they have a valid reason. Yeah, but he doesn't seem to
have had a reason other than he wanted to be.
And he knew. The layout of the school that's.
Why he chose the school? Wow.
Once he had done enough to achieve the notoriety that he so

(17:53):
desperately wanted, Plan 3 was for Prosper to take his own
life, meaning that he never had any intention of taking
responsibility or facing any consequences for his actions.
It just makes me think he's a little bitch to be honest.
I mean, if you want to have famefor it, stand up and be there to
accept the fame. It's, I think it's disgusting.
I am in no way condoning this. I don't.

(18:14):
I don't. Think fame was Ethan.
It was he. Wanted to be infamous.
He wanted. Yeah, that was.
So that's it. And no variety.
Why? Well, not if you go shoot
yourself afterwards, you're not gonna reap.
I was gonna say benefits. That's horrible, you know.
What I mean, so basically you know.
What I mean so prosper. Knew that for his plans the way
he wanted them, there were several things he needed to do

(18:36):
to make sure every detail was covered.
Sadly, had any of these been discovered prior to Friday the
13th of September 2024, maybe things would have turned out
differently. But first, he had to do his
research. He needed to create an overall
plan. It was imperative that what he
did would earn him the infamy hecraved.
After all, during his research he accessed a lot of nefarious

(18:56):
websites and it seemed he left atrail of red flags behind him,
which had anyone known to look for him, would have potentially
been helpful in stopping him. But maybe now I guess if other
people see somebody else with the same red flags, maybe it'll
do something to stop him. But two of these red flags were
that he'd been banned from a website dedicated to depicting
imagery documenting people taking their own lives, which

(19:19):
breaks my heart. He got banned from this for
making pro paedophilic comments on the site.
If only anybody around him had the knowledge of this ahead of
time, it would have given them areason to even keep a closer eye
on him. Does nothing.
Feedback to the local police then when that sort of ban is
put in place because it should there should be a department
that's no monitoring that no, because the.

(19:41):
Website in itself was doing something that it really
shouldn't be doing either, I suppose.
Yeah, glorifying. Suicide.
I'm pretty sure it's it's. Not while the.
People, and I can only imagine the people that were sharing
their last moments weren't trying to glorify anything, they
were trying to leave a mark. Maybe the people who run sites
like that. I just I can't.
I mean, the police are expandingtheir understanding of online

(20:04):
abuse and then there's a lot going on at the moment within
police services. Yeah, I see what you mean.
The website was running something illegal, so they're
not going to. That's horrendous after.
Doing all this research, he obviously had to arm himself for
a shooting. Now, I need you to remember this
case is in the UK, unlike in some other countries, getting a
hold of a gun should be hard to do, especially when the person

(20:27):
buying it is under the age of 18.
Because we have rules for all this, don't we?
I'm going to take you through the process of how we manage
this, but please don't consider this as me teaching anyone how
to do it. I'm going to give limited
details. I won't be sharing website
names. And later I will share how
somebody in this country is trying to stop this from
happening again and I think we should support them.

(20:47):
So all this research has been going on, by the way, for over a
year. It's alleged that in 2023 he
tried to buy a gun and didn't couldn't do it.
So he would have been 16 but there's no more information
that's saying that you tried andfailed.
So in April 2024 Prosper joined an online site for buying,
selling and trading guns. This site does appear to have
been a legitimate 1 and to use it you needed to have

(21:09):
appropriate licences. Now obviously due to his age
this was a non starter for Prosper anyway, but just to give
you a little bit of possibly extra knowledge I'm going to
tell you what you need to do. To buy a firearm in the UK.
You must first be able to prove to your local police force that
you're not a threat in any way to public safety and this
applies to every everyone, whether it's an individual or
like a group of people trying toset up a new gun club, everybody

(21:31):
must apply for and be granted the appropriate licences.
If you wish to purchase a shotgun, then the police being
happy that you're safe to hold 1might be enough.
However, if you're looking for aSection 1 firearm to go in ahead
and get a licence, you must be able to prove evidence of why
you would need to use a firearm on a regular basis, whether it
for work, for sport and leisure,you have to do that.

(21:52):
You have to be able to comply with Home Office guidelines.
So a section one firearm is basically things like rifles,
handguns and any that require cartridge ammunition.
If you're a convicted criminal who's been sentenced to three
years or more than too bad, too sad you're banned for more
owning A firearm anyway. You're not like a firearm or
ammunition. Similarly, if there are concerns

(22:12):
about a person's mental health, then it's highly likely that
there will also be refused A licence, which if you recall,
his parents had, yeah, doubts about his maintenance.
Yeah, yeah. That's what I.
Meant sorry, I didn't mean doubts.
Now once you've applied, if the initial stages go well, then you
can expect to go through the police vetting procedure which
includes being interviewed, a home visit, a criminal record

(22:33):
check and you'll be expected to provide references I'm guessing.
All this, it would even apply topolice as well.
Everybody. Has to go through this, although
that reminds me of a case I can't remember.
Did I tell you about this one? Where the this guy basically
became a police officer, but it turned out he'd lied on his
application form. He'd been admitted involuntarily

(22:54):
to a psychiatric ward. He said he'd went there
voluntarily, but he hadn't. In America, in most states, if
you get committed, basically youcan't ever have a firearm.
But they let him be in the police and gave him a gun.
Wow. Yeah.
I need to look up what case thatwas.
Now, how Prosper been over the age of 18.
It's probable that since his parents and the school had grave
concerns about his mental health, as I was saying, he
probably wouldn't have got a licence in a month of Sundays

(23:16):
and he knew this, so he went down a different route and faked
A licence instead. That's not gonna work.
I hear you cry. You would take not his forgery.
Was so good that DC Icona later said quote it is a fake, but
possibly only an expert would know this, IE he did a really
good job of it. He investigated the design

(23:36):
requirements, the signatures needed, watermarks, logos and
the materials that he would needto make it a good counterfeit.
She was In April 2024 he made his first attempt, kept at
buying a gun so the same month using the trading form.
However he failed and came away with nothing.
So going forward he built himself a new identity which
included a completely different background and employment

(23:57):
status. He managed to agree a deal with
a seller on another site which was also a legitimate 1, and
forged trust with them by talking about his role as a
volunteer within a charity, making him sound like a giving
and responsible person. Prosper made an offer of £650
for a shotgun and 100 cartridgesand threw in an extra £30 for
the petrol if the vendor would deliver.

(24:18):
There's actually footage of thistransaction taking place.
This seller, an elderly man, wascompletely duped.
He complied with all the legal requirements of gun trading,
including checking ID and licences and reporting the sale
to his local police station. Unfortunately, as Prosper and
the seller agreed to meet at a time which is considered out of
hours. Even though the seller did

(24:39):
report to the police the very next morning, despite the
current law saying you have 7 days to do this, it was too late
for them to realise that the person buying the gun and
ammunition was not a legitimate licence holder as this change of
ownership happened on the date before Thursday the 12th of
September 2024. So we didn't.
Hang about. He didn't hang.

(24:59):
About, but I will say I was gonna.
Say, is the is the seller accountable in any way?
No, but. They he followed everything he
was supposed to in the current guidelines.
Yeah, he was completely duped. He had a record of these sold
before everything had been fine and if the police.
Saying that only an expert wouldknow that that's a fake licence

(25:20):
and certificate. And yeah.
Because there is somebody who's trying to change the law on
this. I'm going to go into that later
on. So when the morning of Friday
the 13th of September, 2024, arrived, a date which, by the
way, was carefully chosen for its superstitious connotations,
Friday the 13th. Yeah.
I was in a car accident on a Friday the 13th.
It's lucky. For my dad, is it?
Yeah. He.

(25:41):
Passed his arriving test on Friday the 13th.
I think he got into the Air Force on Friday.
There's a few things Horsing. Cart did they have well I
suppose it's quite a lucky day for me in the sense that I was
in a car accident with your mom well the windscreen and
everything came out and I've gota little scar and in fact oh

(26:02):
this is actually quite apartmentSo what happened was I was
changing the tape we were listening to Michael Bolton who
I've just discovered has a braintumour Ah yeah and I really like
is it holding back the tears or years and now.
That was nicely red. Oh, OK.
I do like Michael and I just can't remember what he's saying,

(26:23):
sorry. Credit there to make Hucknall, I
guess. No, So what happened was I was
changing the tape. They said we're going back to
cassettes here and had leaned over into the back of the car,
landed on my mum who was drivingand we sort of skidded across
the road. And then she managed to write
herself and then I still didn't have my seat belt on.
I went to turn around and she hit black ice and we shot across

(26:45):
the road. You've heard this story so many
times. I.
Have by it's. Over a fence and rolled up and
down a hill. And then this amazing group of
like, guys in a white. I don't know, now that I think
of it, about four guys can make the back of a white van.
Oh, wow. Yeah.
So I'm not gonna. They were really nice to us,

(27:06):
whoever they were, and picked upall our stuff.
And I remember saying, oh, I've not even read my Fast forward
magazine yet. And when the police picked us
up, no. So then a couple took us to the
hospital and then the police came to get us to take us to the
police station where all our stuff was.
And from the back of the police van, I just remember going, so
have you ever worked on a murder?

(27:27):
And then got my denim jacket back, grabbed it open the pocket
and went for you. So my 2 LB change was still in
the pocket. Well.
Get this though because we livedin different countries at the
time, we used to be pen pals so we used to write each other
letters all the time. Gemma told me about this in a
letter and she even she told thepolice officer because they

(27:48):
asked you to tell everything. So you even told the policeman
what was in your sandwiches. And this is obviously before we
knew that you were neurodivergent.
And if that wasn't as a clue andshe didn't spare 1 little tiny
detail, I never. Do you?
You'll probably get used to that.

(28:08):
Victoria's got a box of letters that I sent her.
I have nothing because I suck, no.
Sentimentality and I think we'veestablished that I'm a hoarder
so we're. Going to say a word.
Rude. You said it, not me.
Anyway, so it was Friday the 13th.
That's what started all that off.

(28:29):
And with the loaded 12 gauge Nico double barreled shotgun in
his possession, Prosper was nearly ready.
Believing it would add to his notoriety, he had chosen A
bizarre black and yellow costumeto wear on the day and added
bladed weapons to his arsenal like a.
Bumblebee, that's what. I thought, why do you want to
look like a Dick? He.
Had no doubt that his plan wouldgo exactly how he wanted to.

(28:51):
However, this was incorrect. At approximately 4:35 AM,
Prosper used the weapon, firing into a stuffed teddy bear,
probably to check it was workingthe way it should.
And I'm guessing he thought thatthis was a great idea.
But this was the beginning of his eventual undoing.
Around 445, Juliana, who'd wokenearlier than usual, perhaps she

(29:13):
was disturbed and slumber by that shot, entered her son's
room and found him with the shotgun.
Confronted with the image of herson with a weapon, Juliana knew
something was really wrong. What the hell do you do in that
situation? Yeah, yeah.
I think this. Is how she would have been.
Yeah, your. Heart would be in your throat,

(29:34):
your stomach could be on the floor.
It's believed that as she pleaded with him to hand over
his weapon, Prosper became angry.
She was making a lot of noise and this has had the potential
to wake his siblings, Kyle and Giselle, ruining the plan he had
of killing them in his sleep. In their sleep.
Sorry, because again, he was a little bitch.
He believed if he did this quickly, one of them after the

(29:56):
other, then he wouldn't draw attention to himself and what he
was doing. Because remember, he was in a
block of flat. Yeah.
Chillingly, it's later determined that Prosper had also
planned to sexually assault his sister after he killed her.
Why? Well, remember.
I mentioned earlier that you've been banned from a website for
pro paedophilic comments. Well, this wasn't the only time
he'd been vocal about his positive feelings regarding

(30:19):
relationships between adults andchildren on the dark web.
He was open about, and I'm sorry, I know this is difficult
to hear. I don't go too much into it
though. He was open about his attraction
for children and it's alleged that he believed he was in a
relationship with the child character Clementine, or
Clementine from the computer game version of The Walking
Dead. So she starts off as a young

(30:39):
girl and you kind of go through with her from what I can make
out. In the aftermath of his act of
familiar side, police officers also find indecent images of
children on his phone and a video he made declaring himself
a follower of Clementine on an online forum.
And in this video, he also made threats against Giselle based on
a choice she had made on the same game that he disagreed

(31:00):
with. They say that this has got
nothing to do with why he killedGiselle, but his mother's
intervention so early in the morning put paid to this and he
attacked her with a knife and then shot her in the head at
close range, leaving her on the hall floor where she fell.
He lost control. He had this tight plan, but the
killings weren't meant to start until hours later.

(31:21):
Juliana had put up one hell of afight, a fight that he hadn't
planned for or expected. Her poor hands and arms were
covered in slash marks. I'm just going to pause to give
an extra warning here and while I don't go into too much detail,
what happens next might be triggering so please proceed
with caution. And this is the bit that I might
put in Spotify where to come back in and listen to.

(31:41):
Unfortunately Victoria has to listen to it but it's it's
honestly I've admitted a lot. Later he would angrily admit
that his mother had quote messedit all up and she was a stupid
cow and I've taken out the cursewords he used because I don't
think they were needed. Giselle woke next and came out
of her being confused. This confusion turned to terror
when she saw her Big Brother. Your Big Brother, the one that

(32:02):
you're supposed to rely on, that's going to have your back,
that's going to beat up partnersin the future if they step out a
line supposed. To be a protector, yeah.
She ran to hide under the familydining table, but was dragged
out, stabbed repeatedly, and then shot to death.
By this point, Kyle was awake and begging for his life.
He had made his way to the kitchen to find a knife to

(32:23):
defend himself again against hisolder brother, who he'd grown up
with. Who he?
Probably looked up to. Probably.
On a mission, Prosper stabbed and slashed at his brother over
100 times before shooting Kyle when, despite A punctured lung,
he'd made it to the hallway. In a bid to escape, Prosper had
used seven of the bullets or cartridges.
I'm not sure how it works. He was armed with and within 30

(32:45):
minutes his whole household was dead.
Meanwhile, at around 521 of the neighbours had reached the end
of their rope and had stormed upto the flat to complain about
the noises they'd been hearing for the last 20 minutes.
Banging on the door. This witness claimed she could
hear quote banging and ruffling and the sound of someone
groaning from the hallway, probably Kyle.
Fearfully, she ran back down to her own flat and called 999,

(33:09):
which was a very good move because if he had opened that
door. She, she, he, she would have
been It's a. She, I think it's the lady that
I mentioned at the beginning, but there was a couple of people
that it could have been. But yeah, but she feels guilt to
this day that she didn't do something sooner, and it's not
her guilt to hold. Absolutely not panicked.
By the knocking on the door, maybe Prosper quickly placed a

(33:31):
copy of a novel called How to Kill Your Family on his mother's
body, then waited a minute or two until he was sure the coast
was clear and he made his escapeat the same time.
The first call was made to 999 at 5:29 AM.
On CCTV footage, we can see thatProsper left the flat at 5:33
AM, while the police entered at 6:08 AM.

(33:52):
The scene these officers walked into really doesn't bear
thinking about. Suffice to say they find
Juliana, Kyle and Giselle, as well as a lot of mess and
various bloody knives. I've cut it all.
I, I don't think it needs to be shared here, but if you want to
read it, it'll be in the sources.
I think people often forget or don't consider what police
officers must see in these cases, and they really are.

(34:13):
We talk about a lot about secondary victims, third party
victims of crime. And it must have been horrific
and. The emergency services certainly
fall into that category and I hope that they get the support
that that they they need. There's.
There's also prison officers. Yeah, they have to read a lot of
details about to know about their They don't call them

(34:35):
prisoners anymore, but I can't remember what they call them the
inmates. Anyway, they have to read a lot
of details. And the prison service actually
has one of the highest suicide rates.
I was. Going to say about PTSD but I
thought yeah, suicide. Yeah, Needless to say, there is
more support needed, more of mental health in this country
is, you know, there's more support needed throughout so and

(34:56):
you don't necessarily think of police and and people and
emergencies emergency workers who have to see what they see
because people say well they youknow, they get paid, it's their.
Job The gets paid enough to see what they must see, no?
Not only. Panicked by the realisation that
you may get caught fairly soon. Prosperous plans were thrown
into complete turmoil at this point.

(35:17):
At half five in the morning, although it was far too early as
no one would be there yet. He was heading to his old Junior
School, the Saint Joseph's Catholic Primary School, dressed
in the inconspicuous outfit he'dchosen.
I really hope you can hear the sarcasm there.
If you remember, he was wearing a bright yellow and black B
esque costume. Just nuts.

(35:38):
And I think the, you know, in that episode of Friends where
Rachel hits Ben's head and then she rips the head off the teddy
bear and puts the hat on. The hat looks like that.
You'll have to look it up. It's bonkers.
Bazaar. That was like a a rain hat.
Yeah, yeah, that's what he's goton his head.
OK. He was also carrying a large bag
holding the reloaded shotgun and33 cartridges.

(35:59):
Now on his walk, he clearly noticed that there was a higher
than usual presence of police, so he came to the realisation
that we only can't yet head to the primary school.
So instead he headed to a nearbywooded area and hid there for
the next two hours. Whilst in the wood at 6:22 AM,
Prosper shared the video I told you about earlier regarding
Clementine, The Walking Dead andGiselle to a website called Mega

(36:21):
before getting rid of two mobilephones that contain messages
with a group that he was in withsome other paedophiles on X.
Hopefully since police know about these phones have been
fined and those bases have been rounded up too.
Just an FYI. I really cautiously, given the
nature of what Prosper was knownto look at, looked at what the
website Mega was and it turns out it's an app based out of

(36:42):
Auckland, New Zealand and is owned by a company in Hong Kong
and it's called Clyde Tech Services Limited.
It's essentially a file sharing platform which can hold bigger
files, can host meetings, et cetera, that offers users total
control and privacy. So it just makes me think that
it's a breeding ground for predators.
To be honest with you, I didn't go further than reading that.
I didn't want to look at anything else.

(37:04):
This case was quite hard to research because there was
things that I didn't want to putin because I don't want to see
anything, no. Exactly, you've got to be so
careful with what you search for.
I remember when my son was little and he was obsessed with
Toy Story and my brother googleda 12 inch woody 'cause he wanted
he wanted to buy him the toy. Oh Paul, I know don't still made

(37:27):
a. Purchase from that first website
though. Don't Google 12 inch woody
anyway. During the time he was hiding,
he also dumped the bag with the gun and ammunition near a
playing field. We don't know why but it was
part of his movements and I'm speculating he knew he was going
to get caught and he didn't wantto be armed because he thought
he would get a higher sentence. Maybe the next bit was a little

(37:48):
bit confusing but I'll explain it as best I can and how I think
it was. So after emerging from the woods
at around 7:55 AM, Prosper beganwalking down Bramington Rd
towards a police car. He says that he flagged the car
down as he wanted to turn himself in, but other sources
state that the police had begun watching him as they noticed he
was behaving strangely and noticed the blood, but he was

(38:08):
also dressed as a bee. Anyway, remember they were
actively looking for somebody who had murdered three people.
So either way, Prosper was arrested and taken into custody
in the police car and take him back to the station.
And in sources it says that he repeatedly stated it is not
murder, which clearly it was. What was it then?
Did he think he was in a game? A.
Bloody hope not, but a frenzied attack where you've stabbed your

(38:32):
brother 100 times and you? Were planning to then go and
kill kids more children because his sibling with.
Children. So although he managed to
complete part one of his crime, Part 2 was foiled by his mother
when she walked into his room that morning, meaning he began
to act out his heinous plans earlier than intended.
In the sentence and remarks of Prosper's subsequent case, Mrs

(38:55):
Justice Chima Grubb vocalised that the untimely death of
Giuliana Falcone, aged 48, Kyle Prosper, aged 16 and 14 year
olds Giselle were, quote, almostcertain to have saved the lives
of many children. He, if he had been able to do
this the way he wanted to do it,nobody would have been ready to
stop him. Nobody would have known.
Due to the already lengthy nature of this episode, I'm not

(39:16):
going to go into full details, full details of the arrest in
court proceedings. But if you want me too, I may
record a bonus episode later. We might attach a poll to the
episode because we don't. We've never done that.
So you can say yes or no if you want.
Poll A. Poll A.
Poll. Yeah.
Poll Yeah. No.
A poll. Polling stations poll.
Poll. Poll.
It's just I'm imagining a poll like, oh, I love.

(39:38):
It when she says things in a different way and the listeners
really like it too. Oh.
Yes. Fenecty, OH.
It's it's spelled Fen ducty. T or is it Fen ducty T Fen?
Ducty back at. The station Prosper was charged
with three counts of murder, purchasing or acquiring a
shotgun without a certificate, possession of a shotgun and

(39:59):
possession of a bladed article in a public place which would.
Have been enough to hold him before they needed any other.
Yeah, indecent. Images were also found on his
mobile device. But due to the nature of the
other charges being of a quote, higher severity, no charges for
these were taken further, which I think is BSIA. 100% think we
don't see things like this. Well, lawmakers don't see

(40:23):
child's abuse as a big deal. It's not.
Even just that it's just the system where if they've
committed multiple crimes and one of of the charges is more
likely to get a result with the CPS, then that is what they go.
Oh I totally get that. But it winds me up that things
can be disregarded because because now.

(40:44):
That's not on his file, that's what.
I mean, yeah, so in the long term, but sometimes they do keep
charges on filed. Hopefully he will never be
released, but if he were to be, how can they disregard those
things because he committed worse crimes at the time.
It should. All be lumped in there.

(41:05):
I'm sorry, but it should. It should be 1 big charge.
Yeah. It should be noted that the
elderly man who sold the ammunition and gun was not
charged, as police believe that based on his spotless record
when selling firearms thus far. And because the ID and
certificate shown to him was such a good fake that he sought
to prosper in good conscience, Ithink.
He's also a third party victim. 3 days.
After he was charged, Prosper appeared in court to have his

(41:27):
trial date set. We're about to meet another
third party victim. During this, his father is
alleged to have shouted I still love you son, it's not your
fault, okay? And burst into tears.
Now I can't speak for him or whyhe shouted the site, but I can
guarantee he was hurting a lot more than Prosper was or ever
will. Maybe he believes his son was
not in his right mind when committing the crimes or

(41:49):
something like that. But though a clinical
psychiatrist who evaluate him whilst he was awaiting his child
diagnosed him with AHD, this does ASD.
What did I say? ASD.
What's ASD? Sorry, autism.
Spectrum disorder. Oh, OK.
Thank you. This doesn't.
Support anything that you did. People with autism are no more
likely to be violent than a neurotypical person.

(42:09):
He also noticed that Prosper showed no signs of either
empathy or remorse and showed worrying psychotic traits.
The thing? Is as a parent, it may just, it
may just be that he actually feels some kind of guilt or like
he's letting them down in some way so that he's somehow
responsible. It's not the case.
It's got to be really difficult though, if one of your children

(42:31):
is responsible for the death of your other children.
That he must be PTS. He I just.
Yeah, that. Yeah, that will torment him for
the rest of his days, but it isn't his fault, you know?
It's not the only person whose fault it is is Prosper.
Whether there's a reason for it or not, it's him.
Yeah. In fact, in writings and
conversations with a nurse afterhis arrest and numerous people

(42:53):
he spoke to whilst in prison, hesaid the only regret he had was
not being able to kill more people.
His trial was originally scheduled for the 5th of
December 2024 but then rearranged from went ahead on
the 24th of February 2025. After being found guilty on the
three counts of murder. Prosper was sentenced to a
minimum of 49 years in prison onthe 19th of March 2025.

(43:17):
This was appealed via the Attorney General the next day
under the unduly lenient sentence scheme, with the
Conservative shadow Justice Minister Kieran Mullen saying,
quote, what exactly does someonehave to do in this country to be
sent away for life? This was the most serious of
crimes including the murder of two children.
Now, interestingly, I find out that any member of the public

(43:39):
can ask for a review on a case sentence where they feel the
sentence is not enough as long as they act within 28 days of
the original sentence being passed.
Wow. I didn't.
Know that so you don't. Need to have any legal
backgrounds or anything you can do this, but I'd be really
interested to find out what people think and if they'd done
it. I'd be interested to know if
anyone's done it on any cases oryou could.

(44:00):
Look into that and give us a little update.
John Tizard, the Bedfordshire Police and Crime Commissioner,
came out in support of the sentencing judge and said the
sentence she handed down to Prosper was correct.
Now Speaking of John deserved, since this massacre he has
called for new laws regarding the selling and trading of guns
and ammunition. I mentioned earlier in March of
this year, he put forward his proposal in a letter to the Home

(44:23):
Secretary, Yvette Yvette Cooper.And I'm going to read it in its
entirety as it was printed in the Mirror newspaper in the 19th
of March 2025. Now, I mentioned the name Yvette
Cooper the other day to asserting somebody and he said,
did you know she's married to EdBalls?
And I said I'm not going to say it.
So if you just think of her nameand her new surname, what would

(44:44):
her name be? Yvette.
Bowles, have you? Right.
Quote Plums, this is quite long.OK, Yeah, I took this from the
mirror. As I said, I believe that new
legislation is needed to ensure public safety and to restore
confidence in firearms licencingpolicy and processes when
firearms are sold or exchanged. I believe that one viable option

(45:04):
would be for anyone wishing to purchase a firearm to provide
documented confirmation from thepolice service that they have a
legitimate entitlement to own a firearm, as well as proof of
identity to the vendor. So basically you would have to
go to the police, explain you wanted to buy a gun, if they
thought you were fit, they'd have to produce a document which
they would then give to the vendor.
Under the current law, sellers have to notify police within

(45:27):
seven days about the sale of a weapon.
But they don't have to check with the police whether the
buyer's firearm certificate is genuine before this purchase,
which creates A loophole wherebythe new owner has a window to
carry out an attack before the fake is discovered.
This confirmation needs to be shared by the police with the
vendor ahead of sale and exchange.
It's clear to me that there should be a national database of

(45:47):
firearm licence holders, which Ithought we already must have.
It is they're. Not well if you.
Get a licence. Why is it not on a database I?
Can't believe that. Well, I'm.
Just going by what John Tizzard's put, so I'm assuming
he's checked. Oh, don't.
You love a spreadsheet in a database, people.
Come on. I would do.
That I would do the data input and I love a bit of data in Yeah
me. Too or the.

(46:07):
Ability of police services to beable to interrogate each other's
databases. My request to you is for the
sale and exchange of firearms tobe reviewed as a matter of
urgency and for new regulations to be introduced.
I hope this might be addressed quickly by secondary legislation
and should primary legislation be required, that this could be
included in the current crime and policing bill.

(46:27):
I'm going to keep an eye on whether this happens.
I don't know if there's somewhere we can all say, if you
agree with this, obviously, thatwe can all say Yep and sign a
petition or what, but I would really like to see, I mean you.
Can start a petition if there's not one already.
We could potentially, yeah, we. Could so before I finish this
episode, and I've got a very particular way I'd like to do it

(46:49):
this week. Victoria, have you got anything
that you would like to say basedon the case?
I It's very, very interesting the stuff that you've come out
with about guns and licences andI didn't know because you don't
consider, you don't consider it so much in this country, do you,
to be a threat. But I guess it's one of those

(47:12):
things that is on the rise, unfortunately.
Hopefully with if we can get a petition started or if we can.
Well, if who was it, John? Tezzard for Bedfordshire PCC.
Yeah, Bedfordshire. Police and Crime Commissioner,
Yeah, yeah, if we can support them in any way, that would be
good. If we'll, we'll look into.

(47:33):
It and and. Hope that they include Scotland.
Yeah, that's another issue, isn't it?
I wonder if there are different rules in place in Scotland
already? Oh yeah.
We could look into that, can we?Because I know a lot of changes
were made after dumbling as. For this special B what check?
Out everybody if you want to check out the references and

(47:55):
weigh in and let us know what you think.
You you should. I don't think you can just
consider what he's done either. You have to consider the plans
he made of. Course you do, although it's a
little bit minority, is it Minority Report where we're Tom
Cruise, where they're trying to stop crimes ahead of them
happening, which takes away the possibility that somebody might

(48:17):
change. But he made the plans, he set
out to do them. And I wonder why.
I know that police were everywhere, but it's like he
just gave up, which, thank God, he gave up.
But could he not have gave up the idea before?
How did he see his mum and stillgo ahead and do it?
Yeah. That's his mum.
Not just that, it sounds like itescalated with his brother and
sister it. Escalated with his mum as well

(48:39):
because he was going to just shoot them all while they slept.
And he stabbed and. So what did he have the knives
for in the 1st place? So I'd primarily like to
dedicate this episode to Juliana, Kyle and Giselle and
their friends and family. But I'd like to close out the
episode by also remembering the names of the victim of both
Dunblane and Sandy Hook. We're thinking of them and their

(49:00):
family too. So in a minute, I'm going to ask
Victoria to read some of these out as well.
But for now, let's say thank youfor listening.
Yeah, thank. That was a difficult one, but
it's it's, yeah, very interesting, very current things
can be learnt from it, I think. Definitely always trust.
Your gut as a parent and if you think there's issues don't just
accept no. I think he wouldn't go to get

(49:22):
help, but maybe it should be more accessible for parents to
learn what they can be doing, I think.
A lot of people are put off, especially with mental health
services by there being a waiting list, which is an
unfortunate aspect of it. But there is help there.
And if you persevere, I know it's another thing that you have
to think about it and it's and it's traumatising having to wait

(49:45):
and and there normally is a treeour system.
But just just persevere, keep atit.
Get your family to help, get thehelp.
We will. Be back on the 15th of June,
which is our mid birthday schedule so we might have
something special arranged. Victoria and I are very, very
close in age and I'm. Younger.
No. You're.
Older Oh yeah, I'm. Older.

(50:05):
You don't say. Good here.
Every year I say to you, no, I'mtwo days off so.
And it will be 1 of Victoria's episodes coming.
See that? My age showing there just by
forgetting that I'm older, yeah.Oh, can I just tell the other
day she said to me, oh, you know, I think I'm like losing my
mind. And then she started telling me

(50:27):
a story and she was like, and your mum was saying to the
shopkeeper blah, blah, blah. And I said, what shopkeeper?
And she went in the bra shop andI said, what are you talking
about? And she went, I'm telling you
about the woman that tried to measure me for a bra when I was
younger in the I'd love a shop. I said, you never told me any of
that part of the story. And she said, oh.
Yeah, I started at the beginningand went straight to the end and

(50:49):
left out the whole middle part. She did, and I laughed and
laughed. So anyway, we'd like to say bye
for now and in a minute we will start going through the names.
So bye. Keep on trucking.
I'm not going to do that every time.
That's ridiculous. Bye people.
Gone but not forgotten Dunblane victims Victoria Elizabeth

(51:10):
Clydesdale, aged 5. Emma Elizabeth Crozier, age 5.
Melissa Helling Curry, age 5. Charlotte Louise Dunn, age 5.
Kevin Allen Hassell, age 5 Ross William Irvin, age 5.
David Charles Kerr, age 5. Marie Elizabeth Mcbee, age 5.

(51:30):
Glen Mayer, age 45. Their teacher Brett McKinnon,
age 6 Abigail Joanne McLennan, age 5.
Emily Morton, age 5. Sophie Jane Lockwood N, age 5.
John Petrie, age 5. Joanna Caroline Ross, age 5.
Hannah Louise Scott, age 5. Megan Turner, age 5.

(51:53):
Sandy Hook victims Nancy Lanza, 52, shot at home Rachel Diavino,
29, behaviour therapist Dawn Hochsprung, 47, principal Anne
Marie Murphy, 52, Special education teacher Lauren Russo,
30, teacher Mary Sherlach, 56, school psychologist Victoria Lee

(52:16):
Soto, 27, teacher and the students Charlotte Bacon, age 6.
Daniel, age 7 Olivia Engel, age 6.
Josephine Gay, aged 7 Dylan Hockley, age 6.
Madeline Sue. Sorry if I've pronounced that
wrong. Age 6.
Catherine Hubbard, age 6, Chase Kowalski, age 7, Jesse Lewis,

(52:42):
age 6 and Marquez Green, age 6. James Mattioli, age 6, Grace
McDonald, age 7, Emily Parker, age 6, Jack Pinto, age 6, Noah
Posner, age 6, Caroline Previdi,age 6, Jessica Ricos, age 6,

(53:05):
Aviel Richman, age 6, Benjamin Wheeler, age 6 and Allison
Wyatt, aged 6. The.

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