EPISODE 4: Maria

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hi, I'm Jen. And I'm sorry, that's a bird a
lot. I was going to introduce.
The bird. I'm Vic.
And we have a bird outside. He's, oh, he's now been quiet.
Raving. And this is the.
Criminal. Crack episode 4, baby.

(00:21):
Episode 4, it's amazing we're here.
It's not amazing we're here likeon Earth, but.
Well, I don't know about that. Well, true.
It's episode 4, although we did do one bonus so it will look
like episode. Technically we did a bonus, but
the gremlins messed up so Gemma ended up doing the bonus alone.
I know I was so sad. But it was really good.

(00:42):
I listened the other day. Great.
I was gonna suggest that you need to keep us going with that,
but maybe both of us can. Yeah, no, I'm happy to do it,
but I'll give you update probably through our new TikTok
we. Are part of the TikTok nation
all of a sudden which feels really weird.
I'm just I'm not familiar with TikTok.

(01:03):
Because we're so old. Because it's so old but I'm
learning and my son says that I definitely have to be on TikTok
so. Well, we have got a video up on
TikTok at the moment, which is regarding Sean Ritchie from
episode 1. Yeah, and it's doing OK.
Yeah. And yeah, the more light we
shine on that case as well, because obviously Sean is still

(01:24):
missing. Yeah, the more people we have
looking at this case, the better.
I think I said in the episode that I heard about the case in
2023, but I'm fairly low and it happened in 2014.
So, so many people don't know. So yeah, we're going to keep
pushing Sean's case. And I didn't know anything about
it until Gemma presented that case.

(01:45):
And I'm quite moved by that whole thing.
Mutually, it's awful. I would like their family to
have some conclusion. What?
Have you been up to? Mostly work actually just worky
worky worky work and not a lot else.
What about you? I've been working a lot also and
I have been gutting my house andputting things to the charity

(02:05):
shops. Well that's good.
Good dude. Reducing the carbon footprint.
It is making things recyclable. Exactly before we get.
Did you sorry? Did you come home with anything
from the charity shop? I did not.
I don't believe you. Believe it.
Believe it, baby. You left the charity shop empty
handed. I did Wow, Gold Star.

(02:25):
I was very good. I did, Luke, obviously before we
get into things, we would really, really love it if you
guys could follow us on Spotify,Amazon Music, Audible, wherever
you're listening to us. If you could check out our
socials. We are on Facebook, Instagram
and TikTok as the criminal crack.
We'd love to have you over there.

(02:46):
Feel free to comment, chat to us, we welcome it all.
And if you follow on Spotify, itwill give you a little
notification every time we post an episode so you don't have to
go hunting for links and things.Exactly, and then when we drop
anything extra bonus wise for you, you'll know about it
straight away. And there will be some.
Extras Bonus Content Victoria it's your turn this week, so

(03:09):
tell me, what is the crack? I'm just gonna give you a little
bit of a a trigger warning here.This case does involve violent
and sexual crimes against a child.
So this case begins on the evening of December the 3rd in
1957. The impending full moon and the
promise of the first flurries ofsnow hanging in the air were too
inviting for 8 year old Kathy Sigmund and seven-year old Maria

(03:32):
Ridolf to resist. After supper, as the snow
started dusting the street outside and following some
pleading with her parents, Mariacalled Kathy on the telephone to
say I can go outside tonight, can you?
The two little girls lived a fewdoors down from each other on
Archie St and met mid blockish before heading to one of their
favourite spots on the corner where Archie St met Centre Cross

(03:52):
Street AKA State Route 23. So this is an American case.
I think that's our first international case.
It may well be, apart from, obviously, your bonus episode.
Oh yeah, sorry, I forgot. They went to the corner to play
a game of. Duck the cars.
Duck the cars does not sound safe.
What on earth is Duck the Cars? Well, it's not as bad.

(04:13):
I think you're imagining the pair would run between a street
pole and around the base of a huge Elm tree to duck the lights
when they saw the headlights approaching.
So their challenge was to go unnoticed.
OK, so kind of like chicken, butnot in?
Kind of like chicken but with just with the headlights, not
with the actual bonnet hopefully.
Ah, OK. Well, we never did anything like

(04:33):
that, but I'm just thinking, do you remember that we used to go
to that block of flats near us and go all the way to the top
floor and throw out like. So the stairs went there was
like a hole in the middle, wasn't there?
Yeah. So you could see all the way
down the floors, but it wasn't very big.
It wasn't very wide, it wasn't like a grand staircase, but
there was a twisted around staircase and we'd go up and for

(04:56):
some reason we take our shoes off and Chuck them over and then
we're like, ah, we gotta go get our shoes.
But we Chuck them down that hall.
Yeah, we'd Chuck them down the hole in the middle, and then
we'd climb over the railing and walk the whole way around the
stairs. On the inside.
On the yeah, on the well, the outside of the Bannister,
wouldn't it, to go fetch our shoes rather than 'cause we

(05:19):
obviously couldn't go down the stairs in just socks, could we?
So we had to do, I don't know, Puck or we.
Couldn't do it normally. We played that and we played oh
why we found a box full of crab legs.
Let's chase another kid with them.
Let's chase the Yeah. Why was there a box of crab
legs? I have not.
And it was huge. There was a massive, like there
was so many, yeah, dismembered crab pieces.

(05:43):
So yeah, we used to get up to all sorts of shenanigans.
We did had. Fun.
So back to the story. Unfortunately, on this fateful
night, it seems that someone didnotice the girls.
A predator was lurking in the small Midwestern town of
Sycamore, IL, a place where people left their doors unlocked
and nothing bad ever happened. But Sycamore was about to change

(06:04):
forever in the weeks prior to December, the people of Sycamore
had become aware of some unusually boardy activity in the
community. One report claims that road
signs were being vandalised withlewd images, and another report
was made that around 4:15 on theafternoon of December, the
third. Two young girls, not the same
girls two different young girls were walking near the Public

(06:25):
Library on State Street when a strange man tried to strike up a
conversation. The girls felt uncomfortable
enough, and they quickly ran into a restaurant to avoid
speaking with him. But when they they emerged from
the restaurant, the pavement waslittered with about half a dozen
explicit photographs of nude women.
Oh, okay, I know, right? That strange, bizarre and it was

(06:46):
obviously his intention for themto see that.
He was getting off on that. Yeah, yeah, he was probably
watching them from somewhere, wasn't he?
So something was certainly afootin this small farming town.
While Kathy and Maria played on the corner of Archie St in the
hum of the streetlight overhead,they were approached from the
South by an older man. But this is older in the context

(07:06):
of them being 7:00 and 8:00. Right.
I think they would have said an elderly met like, you know, like
a elderly if it was older, older.
I think this is just older than them.
In fairness, when we were that age, elderly was the age we're
at now, and I'm certainly not elderly.
I feel it. Kathy would later describe this
man as having a slim or slender face and big teeth.

(07:29):
He had his dark blonde hair swept back in a duck tail and
wore jeans, a sweater with lots of colours in it but no jacket.
Whilst Kathy would later confirmthat the night was very, very
dark, she also stated that it was not too dark for her to see
the man under the street light shining down.
When the man spoke, his voice was high and thin and he
introduced himself as Johnny. The man asked the girls if they

(07:52):
liked dollies and offered them apiggyback ride.
Maria accepted and when her and Johnny returned from the first
piggyback ride, Maria trotted home to find a doll.
So I'm assuming that when he's been carrying her around, he's
been talking a bit more about Dolly and trying to get her to
go fetch 1. So she went off and choosing a

(08:13):
nice doll with a new dress. Her mother Francis recalls that
she suggested to Maria she take an older doll out to play,
saying you don't want to take the one with the new dress.
So obviously Maria had been home, but no mention of the man.
So had he also said don't tell anybody?
You know, it's that speculation,of course, but you can imagine
the conversation, can't you? Whilst they waited under the

(08:34):
streetlight, Kathy studied the strange man who asked if she'd
like to go for a trip or a walk around the block, and she
declined. When Maria ran back to Kathy and
Johnny, Kathy headed home briefly to get some mittens for
her cold hands. She invited her friend to go
with her, but Maria didn't want to go.
From that, I get a sense that Kathy was really a little bit
uncomfortable with this man and was trying to get her friend to

(08:56):
go with her. Yeah.
When Kathy returned with her mittens, Maria and the man were
gone. Oh no.
Kathy headed to Maria's house, assuming that she had gone home
and announced Maria's lost. Maria's 11 year old brother
Charles, who was listening to records with a friend, told
Kathy that she must be hiding from you and instructed her to
keep looking. So Kathy headed back down the

(09:18):
street, calling her friend's name before eventually heading
to her own home and telling her mother about Maria and the man
who called himself Johnny. And Kathy's mother called the
police. Oh.
Thank God, straight away straight.
Away. I'm assuming she would have also
called Maria's as well. Word of the missing child spread
quickly through the small town of approximately 7000 residents

(09:39):
and many volunteered to come outto join the neighbourhood
search. Coinciding with the search,
initial police efforts included door to door inquiries.
Maria was described as having dark brown hair cut into a Bob
with bangs. She had brown eyes, was 3 foot 6
tall and only 3 1/2 stone so shewas a littaly last seen wearing
black corduroy trousers, a tan coloured boyish coat, a black

(10:02):
and white checked shirt, hand knitted mittens, brown socks and
white shoes with leather tassels.
So she sounds like a cool littletrendset.
Now. The doll Maria had gone home to
fetch was found outside a neighbour's garage, although
some suggest it had not been there shortly before and the
first time that they checked thearea.
So that makes me wonder if they were waiting in or he had her
somewhere. And yeah, scarpered when he saw

(10:24):
people looking, maybe. Or took cover when people were
walking away and then maybe madea run for it.
Yeah. Yeah, this doll was sent away
for testing, but no results wereever presented.
Police stopped and searched every vehicle that entered and
left Sycamore in the following days, but no clues were found.
This is horrible. Maria's 11 year old brother
Charles, or Chuck as he was known, was assigned to a search

(10:45):
party on the morning of the 4th of December, so the the very
next morning. He was sent out to look for his
own sister. Yeah, he was 11 years old and
sent out, assigned to a search party to look.
That's horrible. Can you he?
Should not be the one to find her.
They even sent him down. They asked him to climb down a
manhole because he was the only one that was small enough.

(11:06):
But what if he'd gone down thereand find her all battered and
bruised? And that's not that's just
trauma on trauma. That experience for him, even
though he didn't find her, that experience must have left a mark
forever. Of course, hand in hand, the
volunteers walked in lines through frozen cornfields.
Now, they did find a bloody petticoat, but it didn't belong

(11:27):
to Maria, which I find really peculiar.
There's no more information about that either.
Well, she had trousers on. She had trousers.
Was that then? And and bloodied as well
bloodied. Was somebody else missing?
No mention of anyone else missing but that I find really
bizarre. And I did try and find more
information about the bloodied petticoat, but that was the one

(11:47):
mention I could find. Oh, that you won't like this?
They also found an abandoned sack of kittens.
Or a sack of abandoned kittens. Who does that?
I know if you're going to abandon kittens, just bring them
to gym. Jim will take them.
Jim will take all the kittens, all the puppies and the Guinea
pigs and the rabbits and the. Giraffes.
I would really. I'm not so keen on a giraffe.

(12:09):
I would really like a trash panda, so if anybody can make
that happen that would be great.And a Quaker.
What was that? Now they're not the ones with
the square poop. You bring up the square poop
every time. No, they're Quakers are the ones
that have no natural predators, so they're not scared of
anything. Oh, that's cool.
No, they're because they're so thick.
They're like, you know, Kevin from the office.

(12:32):
He he's a Quaker. He's a.
Quaker. So it's wombats with the square
poop I think. Possibly.
Yeah, sorry, back to the poop. What were the things you told
me? The mini squirrels or something?
Oh, sugar gliders. They're amazing.
Cute. So cute.
I made the mistake of showing Theo and he's like yeah, 11.
Oh, they are too cute. You have to have too.

(12:54):
Many. You're talking about the actual
mini squirrels that were for sale?
Yeah, Locally, yeah, yeah. Sugar gliders are better though.
Are they the ones with wings? They're the ones with wings that
look like Have you ever seen thefilm Waiting with Ryan Reynolds,
where they'll work in a restaurant?
Yes, I have. And there's the guy in the
kitchen that'll get his ball sack out and he pulls it out at

(13:17):
one point, and that's what the wings look like.
This is not a podcast for children.
I could have done without that mental image actually.
I know, but I couldn't live without giving you that mental
image. So Maria had disappeared without
a trace. Maria's disappearance quickly
became the focus of the nationalpress and within days the FBI

(13:39):
were involved with two agents setting up residence in the
Rudolph's Parlour with J Edgar Hoover and the President at the
time, which was Eisenhower, requesting daily updates.
The search utilised crop dusters.
Sorry, trust you. Military planes and riders on
horseback. Crawl spaces were searched and a
local quarry was drained for fear that Maria might have had

(14:00):
an accident. But it was clear that foul play
was more than likely. Kathy, the only eyewitness and
only 8 years old, was now under 24 hour police surveillance.
Over the course of the investigation, she was shown
thousands of mug shots and even subjected to medical cheques to
rule out sexual molestation. That's horrifying.

(14:22):
Did she suggest that anything had happened to?
Her no, I feel like that's. Putting a kid through something
they don't don't need to get putthrough.
And also when you say she was under medical.
Cheques though, Why? Why couldn't they just ask the
poor girl? But also, when you say about
surveillance, what do you mean by that?
Do they think that maybe Maria'sjust hiding somewhere?

(14:42):
There was a worry that he might have wanted both of them.
Oh, so he might come back OK. And of course, they don't know
who it is, do they? They don't know who Johnny is.
It was assumed that this was a sexual predator that was
responsible. So, you know, already early on
in this, they're assuming that residents were urged to remain
vigilant. They were to keep porch lights

(15:03):
on and report anything suspicious.
A description of Johnny was being circulated.
And just three days after Maria's disappearance, an
anonymous female caller alerted the DeKalb County Sheriff's
Office to a boy she named Treshna.
Treshna. That's an odd name.
Who lived in the neighbourhood and fit the description?
On the 8th of December, the FBI would call at the Tessia

(15:27):
household on Centre Cross Street, the home where 18 year
old John Tessia lives. On Yeah.
Live with his parents and five siblings. 2 of John's sisters
overheard their mother say to officials that John had been
home on the night of the 3rd of December, but peculiarly this
was something that they knew to be untrue.

(15:48):
Their mother and father had goneout to help with search efforts
and the children who were home, Diane, Mary and Bob had been
told to lock the front door, andtheir father had secured a piece
of plywood wedging the interior of the side door because it
didn't lock. Wait, hang on, somebody has
abducted a child. Both parents of this household

(16:12):
have decided to go out and look even though their side door
doesn't lock, but it's OK because they've whacked up a bit
of MDF. Is that is it just me or is that
horrifying? Or do they know that their
children aren't under threat? Because they think John's done
something. But then are they?

(16:32):
Actually out looking for him. But then why I'm conflicted
because then why would they? Tell them to barricade the door.
Yeah, OK. It's what the parents is find it
really strange that both of themwould go to search and leave
their little children in the house, but OK.
Mary was instructed to lock the front door behind her parents

(16:53):
and to only open it when they returned.
She fell asleep in the living room at around 11:45 and her
brother John notably, was still not home.
She wasn't roused until her parents returned in the middle
of the night. The middle of the OK, OK, Keep
your mouth shut, Jim. After a week, the police and FBI

(17:13):
had tracked down 250 leads. They'd processed 200 suspects,
all with negative results, but at the time still had
approximately 125 leads to go. And although John Tessia's name
was amongst them, it seems he had offered a substantial alibi
which his parents had now supported.
And for now, this line of inquiry had been concluded.

(17:37):
So wait a minute, they're processing all these people, but
if he's gave an alibi, they've not actually checked that out
properly. So how many of these people did
they actually check out properly?
How many? Yeah, they're processing an
awful lot of people and writing them off very, very quickly.
So Christmas came and went, Maria's presence remained

(17:58):
unopened, and on April the 26th of 1958, skeletal remains were
discovered under an uprooted tree on Roy Cahill's farm,
approximately 500 feet from the roadside in Woodbine, IL.
And this was approximately 90 miles from where Maria was
kidnapped. Oh, why?
OK, so well, she's been moved bycar probably then.

(18:19):
Yeah, This was 57.9 miles along the US 20 E Highway, which is a
straight stretch of motorway away from Rockford, which would
take approximately one hour, 7 minutes to drive within the
legal speed limit. And this information is
important later for later. I no doubt.
I. No doubt if you were abducting a

(18:41):
child, you would do the speed, you wouldn't go over the speed
limit, would you? Just this John Tessier drive.
He does. I've looked at the map as well
because I do like to get my bearings and have a little bit
of a visual of the. I do the whole thing, you know,
with the like the aeroplane in Indiana Jones on the map where
they do the red line. I do that.

(19:02):
I like that in my head so that Ican go, Oh yeah, right.
I just use Google Maps and go doing the streets but OK you do
you do. She's so clever.
I keep telling you she's so clever.
But yeah, this that sent across street where they were playing.
There is a straight highway going right up there.
So the remains had been found bymoral mushroom hunters who
informed the sheriff of rural Joe Davies County.

(19:25):
The Sheriff and you're going to love this Emma 2 Gun Grebner. 02
guns. She sounds like a girl I can get
on board with. Her two deputies, one of which
was Emma's hubby and the coroner, were admittedly in over
their heads, with coroner James T Furlong saying he had never
handled a murder case. And that's fair enough.

(19:47):
Like a lot of places haven't. They've got a lot of places.
And, you know, there's always going to be a first, isn't
there? So.
But his next move seems to solidify the fact that they're
in over their heads because, according to the Chicago
Tribune, he disallowed photos tobe taken at the deposition site
because he didn't want to see pictures of the body slobbed all

(20:08):
over the front pages. And although this could have
just been a restriction to news media photographers, it seems
like it was. Any.
Photos. Oh, wait a minute.
Or otherwise? Oh, I thought you just meant the
newspapers, which is understandable, but you're
telling me he never took any photos of the scene?
Couldn't find. Before he moved there.

(20:28):
No. Oh, for God's sake, I know.
So that's Deputy Doodle then? Doofy, yeah.
The funeral director and coronerassisted in recovering the
remains of a female child from among some timber.
The body was found on the ground.
It had some clothes and one sockon it.

(20:48):
And I'm sorry that they keep saying it and the body and it's
very disconnected. But I think they have to
disconnect because of the vicarious trauma that can go
along with with being close to these scenes and seeing and
hearing and. I think that's fair.

(21:08):
So you're not choosing to see it.
It's because that's how the report is a.
Coping. Yeah.
Strategy, I guess. According to Furlong, the body
was in bad shape from the lengthof time it was out in the
timber. How long was it now?
So this was. April shrimp message went

(21:28):
missing December. Yeah, 11:30 on the night of
April the 26th. In 1958, Doctor Trumna conducted
the autopsy at the Furlong Funeral Home.
Furlong, the DeKalb County State's Attorney, the members of
the Illinois State Police and along with agents from the FBI

(21:49):
attended the autopsy. The body was identified as 7
year old Maria from dental records, so it is definitely
her. The body was clad in one
brownish tan ankle length sock, a soiled black and white check
shirt and a cotton knit undershirt, so she had no
bottoms on. Oh no.
Well. These are some quotes that I

(22:11):
took directly from the autopsy report.
It is impossible to recognise evidence of laryngeal or hyoid
fracture, so that would imply she's not been.
Strangled. It was complete in the sense of
skeletal articulation, so no parts missing or dismembered.
OK. Known trauma prior to the
subject's disappearance, namely a laceration on the sole of the

(22:34):
left foot and a probable vaccination scar on the left
thigh. Oh.
That's interesting. So.
It was, so it wasn't completely skeletal.
There was skin, some skin. I think they said the skin under
where there was still clothes. Relating to the cause of death,
Doctor Trumner stated that I candraw no conclusion on this
subject. He elaborated by stating that

(22:55):
the poor preservation of the body due to effects of the
elements and the ravages of small animals rented this
doubtful from the offset. OK, but he doesn't have a
method, but he knows that it washomicide.
Yeah. Yeah.
Because she didn't put herself there.
No, now Maria was buried in 1958, where a cortege of more
than 300 attended to pay their respects.

(23:17):
That's sad. A little coffin, I know.
One article I read claimed that 2 Gun Grebner, the sheriff in
the area where Marias remains, were discovered.
Apparently, she said she didn't intend to investigate the case
because it didn't take place in Joe Davies County.
I'm sorry, what? Hmm.
They don't know where that baby was killed.
No. She's really let me down.

(23:40):
I know the name is just such a. Well, even like a woman in that
position, you think, Oh yeah, come on, like do it for the girl
sort of thing. And yeah, also a woman in that
position in that era. She had no professional
curiosity at all and. It seems not.
I can't get my head around it tobe honest, and it's not like
they would have been too busy to.
I don't know. Anyway, if this is true, it's

(24:02):
ludicrous. And it touches on something
we've mentioned before, doesn't it?
Because police jurisdiction and the pissing contest that seemed
to go on between neighbouring forces and especially in
America. It's sort of the opposite
though, isn't it? Because usually when you hear
about these two, when you hear about these issues, they're
fighting to be the ones that deal with it.
And she's just like, no, you're alright.

(24:23):
I'm actually busy. There's a cat and a tree that
I'd like to get and I'd need to know where my husband is at all
times so that I just like her employing her husband come.
On I know. Right.
It's like, and I'm really sorry if you're one of these people,
but it's like those people that share a Facebook account with
their partner because they don'ttrust each other.

(24:45):
Sometimes I think those shared Facebook accounts though,
because one of them wants to do it and the other one's like
whatever. No, just have your own Facebook
account then. It's weird.
Either way, anyway, it seems like hugely significant errors,
including missed opportunities for forensic analysis and.

(25:06):
Because she could. Evolve it.
It would all hamper the case andMaria's murder would sadly be
shelved and labelled what we nowrefer to as a cold case for more
than 50 years. That's awful, and I'm not
surprised that something. Just flew into the window.
It's like I'm going to go and have a look and see if it's
alive it. Was it?
Was a sparer all right? I can't see it.

(25:27):
So it must have flown away. What were we saying?
Sorry. Oh, yeah.
It's gone cold for 50 years. 50 years.
Yeah. Little surprise when there was
no photos taken of the crime scene 1 area was like, no, we're
just not going to bother lookinginto.
And they ruled out suspects really, really quickly.
Yeah, yeah. Shame on them.
Can I ask a quick question? You may.

(25:49):
Did the guy from the start with the like filthy pictures that
you left out for those other twolittle girls?
Did his description match the one that Kathy gave?
I don't know. I believe it.
Did I can't take you seriously while you're pulling eyelashes?
Sorry, there's something in my eyelash.
I think it did. I think I read that somewhere

(26:09):
and I should have probably included it because it's quite
important. Let's go with yes.
OK, match completely. It was him.
Yeah, you've done it. I'm just going to carry on with
this bit and I'll see what you make of it, OK?
While Maria's family and loved ones likely never passed a day
without thinking of the little girl, the case had long faded
from people's minds, lying dormant and forgotten.

(26:30):
But for one woman, the memory ofMaria's disappearance had
lingered like a shadow haunting her soul since that cold
December night. Oh, Kathy.
No. Oh.
Lying in a hospital bed connected to a morphine drip and
facing the final stages of cancer, Eileen Tessia called her
youngest daughter, Janet, to herside.

(26:53):
She knows something. Mama Tessia.
I'm not going to like her, am I?Her eyes wide and urgent, she
grabbed Janet's wrist, pulled her close and told her those two
little girls 1 disappeared. John did it.
And she's waited all this time because she's on her deathbed,

(27:15):
so she can't face any repercussions or have to look
anybody in the eye. Well.
She saw Kathy. 'S got to be.
I know she that's that small community where she lived with
those people that were. She's doing that for herself.
She's probably confessing beforeher death.
Yeah. I don't respect that at all.

(27:35):
So I'm going to talk a little bit about that now.
Knowing that death was near, perhaps Eileen could no longer
bear the weight of the secret she'd held for 37 years.
And with those words, the temperature of a long cold case
began to slowly rise. Eileen urged Janet to tell
someone. Maybe it was the effects of the
morphine loosening her lips, Or maybe the fear of facing the

(27:56):
afterlife with such a heavy burden had finally overtaken her
silence. Or perhaps she had simply
stopped fearing the consequences.
After all, any punishment for her role would now be
meaningless. Both she and her husband had
shielded their son with a false alibi the night Maria
disappeared. The husband knew as well.
That's disgusting. So a crime that could have made

(28:20):
them both criminally liable due to their prior contrary
statements that they had given to the police and the FBI as
well. Yeah, but they just didn't have
to make those statements. They had to say like, we're not
seeing our sons done something, but we can't vouch for them.
And we don't know where he is. He's not here.
But when you hear his alibi as well, why would they have not
just said that straight away? What was?

(28:42):
This. I'll go into it.
OK, Sorry, it's all right now. That dark and buried truth
belonged to Janet, and she knew she had to speak.
But how would she approach this?Who would she tell, and who
would even listen to her? Janet was one of John Tessia's
half sisters, and although she had been just an infant when
Maria vanished, she grew up in ahousehold where stories of
boogie men and child snatchers loomed large.

(29:04):
Over time, she began to piece together fragments of overheard
conversations, especially those whispers between her older
sisters about the fateful night of December the 3rd.
Now, despite being urged by somefamily members, including her
father Ralph, to leave the past buried, Janet felt a deep sense
of responsibility to speak out and she made several attempts to

(29:26):
contact Sycamore police but her concerns were brushed aside.
Oh, for goodness sake. As she described it, she was
subjected to the bureaucratic shuffle, her claims dismissed
and redirected with little seriousness.
Then Janet learned that the casehad been officially closed on
November the 19th, 1997. Wait, how do you close a case

(29:47):
where you've not got, you've notcaught anybody and why are you
closing the sorry if I just blewout there, Why are you closing
that case? So Detective Patrick Sola, who
was also an acquaintance and friend of the Tessia family, had
attributed Maria's murder to another person, William Henry
Redmond, a transient trucker whose appearance and MO bore

(30:10):
some resemblance to that of Johnny Redmond's.
Details were found in the FBI database, which Sola had been
scouring as he'd been suspected but I need to add, never charged
in the 1951 murder of an 8 year old girl in Pennsylvania.
Now he died in 1992 and with that the case was considered

(30:31):
resolved. So he never hang on two ticks.
Did he get charged with the murder of Maria and abduction of
Maria? No.
So it's not a closed case. You can't just decide, he said.
They take a. Similar look and a similar MO,
but I've looked at the picture of this guy and he did not look
like. Oh, maybe you do a side by side
for wrestlers. That might be good.

(30:52):
Put it on TikTok. We've great for a podcast, isn't
it? It is.
For many in Sycamore, this explanation brought a certain
comfort. The idea that a stranger had
committed such a horrific act intheir small town was easier to
accept than the possibility thatone of their own could possibly
be responsible. Dissatisfied with that
conclusion though, Janet eventually found a tip line on
the Illinois State Police website and composed the

(31:14):
following e-mail. Sycamore, IL December 1957 a 7
year old girl named Maria Rudolph disappeared.
Her remains were discovered several miles away in a
different county in the early spring of 1958.
I continue to believe that John Samuel Tessia of Sycamore, IL,
now known as Jack Daniel McCullough, is responsible for

(31:37):
her death. He is currently living in the
Seattle, Tacoma, WA area under the name Jack Daniel McCullough.
I've previously provided information to the person in
charge of the Sycamore cold case.
I've done so multiple times. Nothing ever comes of it.
This will be the last time I raise this with anyone.

(31:57):
The information I have makes Tessia slash McCullough a
credible suspect, someone worth investigating.
But I can't keep doing this. It's emotionally draining and
brings up painful, terrible memories.
And at exactly 1:04 PM on September the 11th, 2008, Janet
clicks send. He's changed his name, so has he

(32:19):
been in trouble again? Is that why he's changed his
name are. You so.
Many questions. You wait.
He is not an upstanding citizen.Let's say The desperation of her
words caught the attention of a state police commander based in
Elgin. Oh, I lived in Elgin and we
lived in Elgin and we lived in Elgin.

(32:41):
This is Elgin in America though.It's one of them.
Oh wait, is it Illinois? Yeah.
Oh, I have a screenshot somewhere.
Not a screenshot. I took a picture of a screen
when I was watching Prison Breakyears and years and years ago
and Elgin, IL came up. I'll see if I can find out.
I'm going to take a note of that.
Put it in, we can go look. We know about this place
already. Now I apologise, I don't know

(33:04):
how to pronounce this name, so you might want to guess the the
spell. The the surname is spelt RAPACZ
or ACZ if you're American repacks.
Check, repack. Check.
Maybe I don't. I know, I don't know.
I'm so. Sorry, I'm just going to call

(33:24):
this guy Tony, OK? And that is his first name, so
I'm not just being weird. So the desperation of her words
had caught the attention of thisstate police commander based in
Elgin. Tony Repacks called Janet and
listened while she told him whatshe knew.
Tony made no promises but felt there was some credibility to
her story and his 25 years on the force had taught him the

(33:44):
importance of pursuing even the smallest lead.
OK, good boy. So he put agents Larry Cot and
Brianne Hanley on the case. Reinvestigating a cold case,
especially one that had sat untouched for over 40 years,
required extensive groundwork. Cotton had to track down former
Sycamore residents, including the sole eyewitness from that
night, which was Kathy Sigmund, now known as Kathy Chapman.

(34:05):
But you've got to bear in mind alot of people had passed away as
well. This really was a a difficult 1
to investigate and we already know about the failings at the
beginning. Yeah, two guys.
She was bloody useless, weren't you?
They interviewed Tessie as former classmates and poured
over decades old case files, physical evidence and phone
records. And as their investigation
unfolded, they began to uncover troubling aspects of John

(34:28):
Tessia's past, disturbing secrets within the Tessia family
itself, and inconsistencies thatraise serious questions about
the original 1957 timeline. Oh, yeah.
As part of the renewed inquiry, on September the 1st, 2010,
Special Agent Brianne Hanley contacted Kathy Chapman.
She shared everything she could recall, though the process

(34:49):
clearly reopened old wounds. And sensing her discomfort,
Hanley ended the conversation for the moment, which I respect
that. He's saying so decent.
So what year are we in again? Sorry.
So this is Brienne, so I don't know if it's a male or female,
sorry. OK.
But what year are we? 2010. 2010 Oh yeah.
Eight days later, Hanley returned to Kathy's with a photo

(35:11):
lineup as Kathy scanned the six images.
So there was only 6 images, but that's a normal lineup, isn't
it? But as she scanned, she paused,
pointed to 1 and said, that's Johnny.
Oh, she knew straight away, Yeah.
You know what's interesting though is that nobody who heard
the description of Johnny from the kids linked it to this
Johnny Tessia when he when they were a local family as well.

(35:33):
They did though. Did I know that?
The anonymous person. All apart from the anonymous
person, but you would think there would be more if that
family was well known anyhoo. Sorry, I did.
I haven't included it, but I didread about that because actually
it's quite disturbing because I watched a video of the main
suspect, just John Tessia, and the way he spoke about Maria

(35:54):
was, and this was noted by loadsof law enforcement people.
It was actually he gushed over her.
He they said he would glow when he started.
Talking and nobody did anything.And he also remembered, and this
I find really strange, he said the last time he saw her, she
was in one thing, he said she was 3, in another thing he said
she was 5. And he told her to go home

(36:15):
because she was out on the street on her own.
But he described everything she was wearing.
That's creepy. Tell me you're a predator
without telling me you're a predator.
Right. So the photo from the lineup
that Kathy had identified was, in fact, of John Tessier now
living under the name Jack Daniel McCullough.
By this point, the only eyewitness, Tessio own mother

(36:37):
and even the anonymous caller back in 1957 had all identified
him as the mysterious Johnny. So why did the FBI accept his
alibi at the time and eliminate him from further investigation?
Could his story really stand up to the scrutiny?
And we should take a closer look, but it does get a bit
complicated. OK, so bear with.
He also goes by multiple names, but I am going to call him John

(36:58):
Tessier for the sake of keeping it simple.
Well, actually, his birth name was John Cherry.
So John Cherry. Yeah.
And his nickname was Cherry, buthe had another nickname as well,
Commando, because he used to go around in army fatigues.
Ain't gonna go commando another man's fatigues.
So there's a lot of background on this guy, but I've I just

(37:18):
tried to stick with the most important, I think the most
relevant parts, which gives you the story.
And then if you want to look, you can and I'll share
everything and all the sources as we always do.
And we can put some stuff on TikTok and we can put some stuff
on our Facebook and yada, yada, yada.
It'll all be. There, but also you mentioned
that at least one of the police officers was a family friend, so

(37:42):
that may be explained. He's the one that closed the
case as well. So so John Tessia claimed he
wasn't in Sycamore on the night Maria disappeared.
He stated that he'd travelled toChicago by train for an entry
level physical exam for the US Air Force.
All right, OK. Now his presence at the
recruitment office was indeed confirmed, but that exam took
place on the morning of Decemberthe second.

(38:04):
Oh, and Tessia failed the physical due to a spot detected
on his lung during an X-ray. He claimed he then stayed
overnight at the YMCA and returned to the recruitment
office the next morning of December the 3rd for a follow up
where he again failed the physical.
I don't know why he'd go twice. You've already been told no
dude. Take a hint.
From there, Tessia said he spentthe time wandering around

(38:26):
Chicago and attending a few burlesque shows before taking a
train to Rockford. Now remember I said Rockford was
an hour and a bit from? Yeah, an hour and 7 minutes.
Because it made me think of The Rockford Files, and then I
started thinking about Rockford cheese.
He claimed he made a collect call to his stepfather Ralph
Tessier to request a right stepfather.

(38:46):
OK. There was a collect call made
from Rockford to the Tessier household at 6:57 on December
the third. However, the call came from an
unspecified location, possibly even the outskirts of Rockford,
and the caller's name was recorded as Tessia, not Tessia.
And also that could be anybody. They're not recorded.
They don't know who might have accepted the call at the

(39:08):
household. They can't prove it was Ralph.
The call lasted just two minutes.
And for me this doesn't line up because it doesn't seem like
long enough to explain you'd failed the medical twice.
Ask for a lift? Instruct someone to wear.
Why didn't he just get? The train hole.
Yeah, it doesn't make sense. Nope.
Tessia also claimed that later that evening, around 7:15 or
7:30, he spoke with Colonel Libowitz of the Air Force

(39:31):
Reserve and said he'd been directed to the Rockford
recruiting office. But this detail raised an
eyebrow. Libowitz found the story
implausible since the recruitment office would not
have been open at that time of night.
Oh yeah, they don't stay open onthat.
Dude. And then on December the 4th, so
the day after Maria disappeared,Tessia, who also went by the
name Cherry as I said, returned to the Rockford recruiting

(39:53):
office again. Why he was back I have no clue.
To make an alibi, maybe. Yeah, you're so clever.
I know I'm so switched on today it's more.
Amazing. Staff Sergeant John Oswald met
him for the first time and provided an account of their
conversation. According to Oswald, Tessia
randomly remarked that it was a good thing he hadn't been in

(40:13):
Sycamore the previous night whena girl had gone missing.
They weren't so stupid they won't get shot.
I mean it took a while and hopefully they do catch this
bastard. Just bear with bear with.
No further details of this disappearance were discussed
other than the fact that the search parties were out looking
for her. So Tessia told Oswald, Oswald as
well. He wouldn't be considered a

(40:34):
suspect anyway because his girlfriend's father was a deputy
chef. There is, there's the
connecting. Piece.
Yeah, but he also had a little black book with him, which he
showed to Oswald. I didn't think.
With his name and the dresses ofgirls in Sycamore, but along
with their bust and hip measurements.
But if he's looking at children,they don't have bust and hip
measurements. And was it children?

(40:56):
Is it? Like little kids.
God knows Oswald. Remote is a weird thing to carry
around though, isn't it? And how did he get bust and hip?
Oh, anyway, Oswald remembered that Tessia wore a flashy, oddly
coloured top and a string necktie, and that he was also
boasting a fresh looking cut across his upper lip.
Like somebody had fought back, maybe.

(41:17):
I bloody hope she did. I hope, yeah.
Tessia claimed that he had been issued a train ticket to travel
from the Chicago recruitment office to Rockford.
OK, where is it then? Why, you know?
You went, father. According to Oswald, that would
have been a highly irregular procedure.
Oh, but that raises more questions because Tessia had his
own car at the time, so why didn't he drive to Chicago

(41:38):
himself? And if he had his own transport,
why was he looking for a ride from his stepfather or relying
on train tickets in the 1st place unless he knew he needed
an alibi? Or do we think that, yeah, he
needed an alibi, but also maybe that car was amazed?
Yeah, Tessia claimed that after returning to Sycamore on the

(41:59):
night of December the third, he went on a date with his
girlfriend, Jan Edwards. However, when Jan was located
during the reinvestigation, her account told a different story
completely. She recalled that her parents
were so alarmed by the news of achild abduction that they
refused to let her leave the house that night.
Oh, that sounds like a normal pain.
Right. She stated clearly that she

(42:19):
never saw John that evening. In fact, Jan and her friend had
been busy decorating a shop for Christmas when the news broke.
They heard sirens and were quickly contacted by John's
father, who instructed them to lock up the store.
Both girls were picked up and taken home, and Jane confirmed
that she had no contact whatsoever, not even on the
telephone with John Tessia that night.

(42:40):
And just to ask because I'm nosy, did she say anything about
what her relationship with him was like?
Like would this have been a complete shot in the dark to
think that he had done somethingthis.
Awful. I'm not sure I didn't.
We should probably look a bit more into that.
There are details of later relationships in his life.
I'm assuming they don't go well,OK.

(43:00):
So during the reinvestigation, Jan also provided investigators
with a photo of her and Tessia at a dance in 1957.
Now, this makes me sort of go shudder because the back of the
photo was signed Love, Johnny. But there was more when the
photo was removed from its cardboard frame.
So you remember those cardboard,like the school photos you used
to get, like this brown cardboard.
I've still got some somewhere. Yeah, so do I.

(43:22):
But when it was removed from that cardboard frame, Agent
Hanley discovered a small piece of yellow paper tucked behind
it. A government issued train ticket
oh meant to transport Tessia from Rockford to Chicago on
December the 2nd, 1957. But wait, wait, wait about that.
But but he never used it. Wait, wait, wait.

(43:43):
Notably, the ticket was unused. It had never been punched.
So how did he travel to Chicago if he hadn't gone by train?
Son of a bitch got you. The train ticket was actually
submitted to the Illinois Central Railroad Historical
Society, which verified its authenticity and confirmed that
it had never been punched. And detectives began to wonder
what else Tessia might have liedabout.

(44:03):
But also, he must have put that in that frame.
It's a little Easter egg, isn't?It it's a little Easter egg,
it's a little look. What I did, they'll never catch
me. Yeah.
But then did she still have thatpicture?
She still have those years later, though she is later.
See, it's like he wanted her to know.
Yeah. And a lot of these people, they
do drop things because, like, the thrills, like, once they've

(44:26):
done what they've done, the thrills kind of gone.
So they're sorry. I'm nodding along with Gemma
because everything she's saying is, yeah, exactly what I'm
thinking. But the thrill of getting
caught? Maybe they want to do things so
that one day they might get to feel that thrill again.
Yep, absolutely. He put that there for a reason
and he signed it. Love Johnny.
For a reason. Scumbag.
In 1957, Tessia drove a battleship grey 1948 coupe with

(44:49):
flames painted along the side. He'd painted the flames, by the
way. He can use it, can't you?
Hardly a vehicle that blended inas well.
So during the reinvestigation, aformer high school friend called
Dennis Twaddle told the police. I know, I like that name, told
the police he had seen that distinctive car cruising through
Sycamore around 2:30 on Decemberthe 3rd, so not very long before

(45:09):
those two girls were approached as well outside the library.
I don't. Is that the sort of car that you
would use to abduct a child in though?
Who knows, because I know it's completely.
Just needed to be seen by one person.
Or maybe that was part of the thrill as well.
While he admitted he couldn't say for certain who was behind
the wheel, he did note that Tessia was extremely protective
of the car and never, never let anyone else drive his baby.

(45:31):
That was a quote. He also said he'd called Tessia
on the night of Maria's disappearance, but John was not
at home. Surprise, surprise.
As investigators revisited the 1957 timeline, they also
determined that Maria was likelyabducted between 6:05 and 6:20,
which was earlier than the FBI had thought originally.
And the reason they did this wasbecause a delivery driver who

(45:53):
knew Kathy reported seeing the girls at 6:05 when he arrived on
the street, but noticed that they were gone and by the time
he left at 6:20. And additionally, a bus driver
passed the corner of Archie Street at 6:30 and observed no
sign of the children. Although eyewitness testimonies
are never great, it's easy to get the wrong end of the stick.
If you ask me what time I saw somebody, I might have a bloody

(46:15):
clue. I.
Think with the bus driver though.
They're so. The bus driver yes, but the an
overview driver. Even a delivery driver, if he's
got a slot that he's got to fill, sorry, I think.
And also the fact that he knew one of the girls.
Yeah. OK, now given and the
possibility that Tessia used hiscar in the abduction, it it
became clear that driving the 33.8 miles to the outskirts of

(46:37):
Rockford to place a collect callto his stepfather at 1857 was
entirely plausible and further placing to Tessia within the
realm of suspicion. Was Maria in the car whilst he
made his presence known in Rockford?
Was this always part of the plan?
And if the police had pursued this and asked if anyone had
seen the car around Rockford at the time, you know, 'cause it's

(46:58):
like we say, it's a, it's a car you're not gonna miss, is it?
No, but. That makes me think, but then
that makes me think. I know it's sort of tying in
with things, but it might not have been him driving that car.
Could have been the stepdad driving the car.
Maybe he took the stepdad's car.Maybe they, yeah, maybe they
switched cars. Oh no, they couldn't have done
that. I'll tell you why in a minute.
There were also some glaring inconsistencies in the

(47:18):
statements given by John's parents to support his alibi
anyway. And it's hardly why St isn't it?
Exactly. Initially they claimed he had
been home the entire night and astatement that contradicted by
several of his siblings and friends, and later they shifted
their account, saying he'd been in Rockford and was waiting for
a ride home. However, this too was challenged
by one of John's sisters, who recalled that their father,

(47:41):
Ralph Tessia, couldn't have beento collect John as her father
had driven to collect her from a4H youth club meeting which
ended at 7:00 PM. Oh yeah, OK.
But also with the changes of statement, why was that not
looked into? I know.
Again, it's good when you know people in the police force,
isn't it these? People changed, and not just the

(48:02):
parents. John himself changed his
statements continually to suit things at the time, so every
time they found something new, he'd go, all right, Yeah, Well,
no, this is because of. The brass neck like these people
that do this and keep coming up with like lie after lie like on
the spot, which is scary in itself, but I don't understand
how that's not a red flag to a police officer.

(48:25):
Is that not? Do you want a police Academy?
Surely it must be our police Academy that evening, this 4H
youth club meeting as well. So the girl vividly remembered
coming back with her father and seeing the street filled with
police cars, which you would remember that of course that
would be stamped on your mind. Both parents barricaded that
side door and joined the search for Maria.

(48:47):
You know, they remember this. So jumping forward a little bit,
2011, OK John Tessia, also knownas Jack McCullough, was arrested
on June the 29th. And just two days later, on July
the first, he was formally charged with the abduction of
Maria. Of Maria.
Good. Murder of Maria, not Maria of
Maria. Yeah.
Within two days they've charged.So they've got to have something

(49:09):
right. I'm sorry, but I've got
something on him and I'm just listening to all this clap trap
that you put. I come on people.
And that doll, are they retesting her?
I don't think they have the dollanymore and that really winds me
up. Or did it get lost in a move by
any chance? It's amazing how often that
happens. It is.

(49:29):
Well, they're cleaning out theirsteps for the second time.
Little hark back to episode 2 there.
So John was extradited from Washington, where he had been
living, back to Sycamore, IL on July the 27th, and this was the
very same day that Maria's remains were exhumed in the hope
that modern forensic techniques might uncover new evidence.

(49:50):
Oh wow. OK.
The exclamation was carried out with the full support of the
Ridolf family, who had hoped that advances in DNA technology
might yield some new evidence, but unfortunately no DNA could
be recovered. Now, I don't agree that no DNA
was recovered because so if we go back to the day that she was
found, none of the procedures were followed.
You can imagine how many people touched those bones.

(50:12):
So I think they probably had so much DNA they couldn't work out
what was what. Well.
There was some, it got a bit technical, but there was
something to do with moisture inthe casket that they couldn't
recover DNA but. DNA doesn't go anywhere.
I don't know. I am not a scientist.
Oh well, I am. I'm not.

(50:32):
I love science though. Science rules.
I love like little factoids, butI love what we can do.
With it, new examination did reveal A cause of death.
Oh. And.
Trigger warning. Oh no.
Yeah, forensic anthropologist Crystal Light Latham identified
sharp force trauma on Maria Sternum and the vertebrae in her
neck. Oh no.
She concluded that the child hadbeen viciously stabbed in the

(50:55):
throat at least three times in adownward motion.
In the throat and in a downward motion.
How tall was this guy? I don't know.
I didn't look at his. Eyes he has to make.
Well, he's a lot taller than her.
Yeah, he's going to be a lot taller than her, just given
their ages. Unless he was very, very short,
I guess. But he's had to.
He would have had to target her throat for that.

(51:16):
That's horrible. That poor baby.
I know, I'm sorry. Oh, Maria.
During the extradition process, Tessia reportedly read the
affidavit, and upon realising that investigators had
discovered that unused train ticket, he changed his story
again, this time claiming that he'd hitchhiked both to and from
Chicago, abandoning his previousclaim as well that his

(51:37):
stepfather had picked him up. So he's changed it again.
What? A bloody idiot.
And is the stepdad still alive at this point?
Because he should be getting questioned about this as well.
I think he might have passed by this point.
Based. No repercussions or
repercussions, however you see. It during the investigations
some new information had come tolight and a dark testier family
secret was done. And another trigger warning

(51:59):
before being tried for the abduction and murder of Maria
Ridolf, Tessia would be tried for the rape of his half sister
Jian No. Yeah, I mean, I don't know why
I'm surprised, because he just had a thing for little girls,
didn't he? Yeah, Jian bravely disclosed
that her brother had sexually assaulted her when she was aged
14 during an occasion when John had returned home from military.

(52:20):
So he did get into some. Sport and the lung never did
much. Then no.
She remembered being taken to a house near Elmwood Cemetery in
Sycamore, which is actually where Maria is buried, where the
brother raped her, then passed her on to two of his friends.
Oh my God. Yeah.
Wait, Aunt Maria was buried at this point.
Ohh. Like that's sick.
Like the whole thing is sick is Per Gianna, This is a horrible

(52:43):
story. Yeah.
I don't think you get to pick your own story as very well,
sorry. I've got a lovely one about a
missing cat. Diane disclosed that her father
had also sexually abused her andworse than that, their mother
was aware. So I.
Intestate there's. Many demons to her grave.
This whole family is absolutely disgusting.
Is it any wonder he grew up to be what he was?

(53:04):
Not the whole family, the. No, no, I mean.
The younger siblings seem to but.
They're not unscathed like this whole family.
Like, no, I'm not saying they'vedone anything.
I'm doing that. I mean like the mother and the
father, father, stepdad are doing these things.
It's no wonder John turned out the way he did.
All of those kids must be bloodytraumatised.

(53:25):
There's an awful lot in his background.
There's an awful lot of deviantsas well.
Colour me surprised. Include more stories, but I was
just trying to focus on no, juston Maria's case.
Unfortunately. With regard to his sister's
disclosure, Tessia was acquitted.
For goodness sake, why? I know.
So the judge did seem sympathetic and didn't doubt the

(53:47):
victim was being truthful, but there was simply insufficient
evidence to convict her brother.Since leaving Sycamore, Tessia
had served in both the military and.
You're going to love this the. Police officer, wasn't it?
Yeah. His career in law enforcement
ended after he was accused of statutory rape of a minor, one
of several allegations of a sexual nature made against him.

(54:10):
He was reportedly unpopular among his.
Colleagues wait, so he's got allthat in his past and they're
saying there's not enough evidence to take that to trial
for his sister? Yeah, well, not enough evidence
to convict, no. But they're, no, this is, This
is why people don't come forwardbecause, oh, sorry, I didn't
film the, I didn't know I was going to be sexually assaulted,
so I didn't film it. Yeah.

(54:31):
So this was just another disclosure really.
One of Tessia's former girlfriends who was a model he'd
met whilst he was a struggling photographer.
So hold on, remember the photos at the beginning as well.
Oh. She's moving.
He claimed that while she lived with him.
You're gonna have to explain themoving, but we'll come back to
that. Oh, your noise, that you do.

(54:52):
In episode, which episode was it?
One or two. At one point while I was
editing, I noticed this sound. Oh, and it's not the moving.
It's a cow giving birth. But it turns out it's just a
noise I make. So we just don't need to.
Guys, calm down. Yeah, you just need to get over
it. It's just a noise I make
apparently. We like the noises, it's fine.

(55:12):
So so he was a struggling photographer and so one of his
former girlfriend said that whenshe lived with him, his 12 year
old daughter from a previous relationship had been to stay
and she witnessed. Him.
Oh no, I can't. I can't hear him doing this to
more people. So he he was witnessed talking
suggestively with a banana to her with like doing a motion
with a banana and just being completely inappropriate to the

(55:36):
child. But more alarming, she
discovered a photo of the girl taped to the underside of a
drawer. No, and the child was nude.
I can't. It's horrendous.
How do beasts like this get to walk the planet when you hear so
many cases? Like recently a young boy went
missing in the UK, Cole Cooper and his body has just been found

(56:00):
and his family have to say that they kept his case.
They have been incredible. They have even the language
they've used the they've just. Been they have been amazing and.
Through what they're going through as well through the
trauma they must be. Feeling and a young boy respect
yeah we've been following Cole'sdisappearance and just hoping

(56:22):
for for a yeah for a better outcome so yeah our our thoughts
do go out to Cole's family but how does something horrific
happen to a young boy like that and a beast like this gets to.
Carry on. What I know, I know.
Sorry, I shouldn't have even used Cole's name in the same air
as what we're talking about, buthe is in our thoughts and so are

(56:43):
the family. So during in the trial, Tessia's
own siblings confirmed his absence from the household on
that night of Maria's disappearance.
They gave descriptions of how helooked at the time which matched
that of Johnny. They were also asked about the
colourful hand knitted sweater specifically that their mother
had made him, and claimed that they'd never seen him wear it
again. After December the 3rd.
The prosecution introduced 3 different inmates who had been

(57:06):
housed with Tessia and the cell mates all gave evidence against
Tessia claiming he confessed themurder to them.
One claim Tessia had said he hadthe victim in his house for
quite a while and that his mum knew about it.
But we we know that in many cases.
They're getting a. Prison informants, Yeah, they
often have an ulterior motive. I.

(57:26):
Mean. They're to support an
investigation, don't they? So their testimonies aren't
always considered the most reliable, even though sometimes
I'm sure they are being truthful.
Yeah, but if you're being sorry,but if you're being housed with
somebody who's done a crime likethat, chances are you've done
something similar. Yeah, Yeah.
So an interesting witness they've spoken about quite a lot
in the media I've read is a witness named Pamela Long.

(57:47):
And she came forward and described someone named Johnny
with blondish brown hair. And she said he had strange.
This is a quote, Strange teeth. Something funny about his teeth.
OK. And who used to give her
piggyback rides up and down the street?
Well, Don, why did this not comeout at the time in the same
time? Yeah, in the same town.
So the last time she remembered getting a piggyback ride was
when she was in grade school. Johnny wouldn't stop when she

(58:10):
asked him to and she started to scream.
She said her father caught up with them and furiously jerked
her off Johnny's back and told him to not come near his
daughter again. So when Maria went missing, did
the whole piggyback ride thing not come out because that as a
parent, if you'd had to deal with somebody doing that with
your child, would you not be like, oh, wait a minute.
There was that guy, yeah, that one guy that one time.

(58:32):
And we all know everybody in Sycamore.
So it was John Tessier. Yeah, maybe it was reported at
the time and just overlooked. Who knows Or who knows?
2000 and 1255 years after Maria Rudolph was abducted and
murdered, John Tessier, AKA JackMcCullough, was convicted of the
crimes. He was 17 years old when Maria

(58:54):
was taken and now, aged 73, he would spend the rest of his life
behind bars, closing one of the oldest cold cases in American
history. Why am I not trusting this?
Because we're not done now. In 2015, Tessia successfully
appealed his convictions for thekidnapping and abduction of

(59:14):
Maria. However, his conviction for
murder was upheld at the time. For those interested, I'll
include 30 pages of court records from the Illinois
official reports in our sources.It's a lot to take in.
In 2016, Tessia was fully exonerated.
I'm sorry, what? On what?

(59:37):
On what grounds? So hold on.
The following year, I'll I'll gointo that.
The following year, in 2017, Judge William Brady issued him a
certificate of innocence. Oh my God.
Several contributing factors ledto this outcome, including
mistaken witness identification,perjury of false accusations,

(59:57):
official misconduct, misconduct and inadequate legal defence.
On April the 15th, 2016, Tessia was released from prison.
He later filed a federal lawsuitseeking damages for.
No. He didn't, Yeah, for his
wrongful conviction. And in response, get this, he
was awarded more than 4 million in settlements from the cities

(01:00:19):
of Sycamore, Seattle and the state of Illinois.
And additionally, he received 95,000 in state compensation.
And it makes me sick to my stomach because I personally
believe that they had their guy.Did they gather sufficient
evidence to prove guilt beyond areasonable doubt?
Clearly not because of the failings at the beginning.

(01:00:39):
No, wait a minute. Yet it must have passed
reasonable doubt for a jury to. Convict to be convicted and it
Much of the case relied on speculative and hearsay
testimony and reaching a conviction in the 1st place was
maybe surprising, maybe I I don't know.
But it raises a difficult question and where do we draw
the line? You know, where does hearsay and

(01:01:00):
and speculative evidence? How much weight can it hold?
Surely it's got to hold some weight.
Well, hang on, when he is getting exonerated then those
people who did not do their job at all but in in this case.
Someone hasn't it? Yeah.
Have to pay some sort of penaltybecause the evidence is there.
Yeah, I just wish that DNA had been gathered in the early

(01:01:23):
stages of the investigation. Of that doll and this DNA.
Maybe they did what they knew atthe time, but I I don't know.
But that wasn't even just where they failed, you know?
They didn't. They didn't follow any
procedures at all. If you realise, oh, God, we
found this body, it looks like it's murder.
We've never dealt with a murder case before.
Get help. Get help?

(01:01:43):
Yeah. Imagine that was your bloody
child lying there. And don't say, oh, but this
didn't happen in our county, so let's wash our hands of it.
This case highlights the critical role of scientific
advancement in within the police, and as we continue to
improve forensic techniques, I hope we not only enhance our
ability to secure rightful convictions, but also to prevent

(01:02:04):
the heartache of wrongful ones too.
Because for the families involved, this is tragedy.
Again and again and again it. Is but, and I get it,
scientific. What was the word you used?
Advance advancement. Yeah, it's all fine and good,
but at the end of the day, you could have all of that.
But if the police are talking about.
Yeah, if they've not gathered and not.
If they've not read Miranda rights, if they've not collated

(01:02:27):
enough other enough other evidence, it just gives a
loophole for these arseholes andtheir defence attorneys to
crawl. Through I mean all.
These it's not just that. Misconduct, inadequate legal
defence. Now, I could have put more in
about this, but I wanted to focus on Maria and the fact is
he's got away with this. He has got away with it and

(01:02:48):
every time he gets let out or like he's exonerated or
compensated, yeah, he's getting off on.
That is, and it's very clear that he has a really seedy
background. He has inappropriate attraction
towards children. How do you let somebody like
that off Scott free and. Like you say, how did these and
reward? How do bad things happen to good

(01:03:09):
people? And then these things?
Or, and even worse than that, innocent children who have can't
possibly have done anything in the world to warrant something
like that happened. To them, no defence, no way of
defending themselves. I mean, you go back to the
method he used. I know violence that she faced.
It's horrendous. There's also one of Maria's

(01:03:31):
siblings, a sister who's passed away now.
There were excerpts from her diary, and that was absolutely
heartbreaking to read. One of the IT was all through
the search. It was all, you know, years
later as well. It was all through that
Christmas where her presence remained under the tree.
It was my sister was told to go out and look for buzzards.

(01:03:53):
Oh. No, to see if there was a body.
To see if there was a body, you know, it's absolutely shockingly
heartbreaking. Her brother Chuck, the one that
was sent out in the search party, he, he has been and done
lots of news programmes and things and he's tried to keep.
Maria's name. So he's he's.
Appealed things with with the conviction and the exoneration,

(01:04:17):
but it's not got anywhere. And but this is the thing as
well. This takes over their entire
life. It has done like, how old must
he? He was older than me.
So he's at least 60, late, late 60s now.
Yeah. And it's his whole life has
probably been about the finding justice for his sister.
And that's not a way to live. That's not a carefree childhood.

(01:04:37):
It's absolutely heartbreaking. When I started this case, I
didn't know. I was like, oh, a cold case.
It's been resolved. Woohoo.
Not woohoo, not woohoo at all, not wahoo at all.
So that's that one. And.
That was horrifying. That's probably, yeah.
I won't do another one like thatfor a little while.

(01:04:58):
I've actually chosen my next andit's going to be something a
little bit more light hearted. No trigger warnings in the next
one. Mine has trigger warnings, but
there's. Also the next one for me, sorry.
Yeah, there's. Also light in it as I can see.
Well, that was horrible, but maybe it gives people an insight
into what actually happens in the true crime world in the

(01:05:20):
sense that, you know, there's all these laws, there's you
believe in justice and just doesn't always happen that way.
I know I don't think I've sent avery good message from this one.
We always try and do. It's not your message.
But yeah, the outcome is what itis and I'm gutted for the
family, totally. I'm gutted for the people that
shared their stories. For his sister who bravely came

(01:05:42):
forward and was let down by the system.
She didn't want to either. Apparently she didn't want to
come. Forward.
Well, you wouldn't want. To would you but her so many.
Justice overtook that and the thought of the other side of the
the case, the her family, like the family.
And I have respect for her for coming forward.
I have respect for anybody that comes forward and discloses
things of that nature because ittakes a tremendous amount of

(01:06:05):
courage, of course, Yeah. And I just hope that they get
the support afterwards that theydeserve and that even though it
didn't result in a conviction, Ithink we.
Everybody knows who did it, yeah.
We know, we know. So that's great.
Yeah. Been up, baby.
Thank you for that again. Yeah, I'm sat here kind of shell
shocked. I've just realised the day this

(01:06:26):
goes out is our mid birthday andI will be older and you will be
younger but we'll do a TikTok because it's our birthday.
Yeah, we've got. Presents, we've got crap, have
we? Well, I've got your.
Present. I ain't got yours.
So what are we opening on this TikTok video?
Oh no, it's not a it's just justwait and see.

(01:06:47):
You can't open your present the day early anyway.
Oh, so you get to do stuff and Idon't?
Well, we'll see. We'll see how it goes.
Maybe we'll have cake. Oh, we'll definitely have cake.
If we could just again, remind you to like, follow, share.
If you've got friends that are true crime podcast listeners,
please let them know about us. That would be fabulous.

(01:07:07):
We'd love you forever and ever. What we do anyway?
Because they listened. Yeah.
We love you. So we love you.
Sorry, this episode is out on our mid birthday and I've lost
the plot. The plot has never been had.
In this case I'm starving so. We're going to go eat.

(01:07:29):
Alright then take care everybody, Bye.
Keep on tracking.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}EPISODE 4: Maria