Dining with Diplomats: Holiday Edition 2024

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
J. Alex Tarquinio (00:08):
Welcome to the Delegates Lounge.
Pull up a chair.
I'm Alex Tarquinio, ajournalist based at the United
Nations here in New York Cityand your emcee for this podcast
featuring some of the mostinfluential minds in the world
today.
Settle in for some rivetingtete-a-tete, available wherever
you listen to podcasts.

H.E. Elina Valtonen (00:41):
Almost 20 hours of you know light sunlight
during the day.
It makes those berries,especially the wild ones, very,
very tasty.

H.E. Margus Tsahkna (00:52):
Blood sausage.
So we are using the blood andthen we make sausages from that.
If I'm going to explain how wedo that, though, I think nobody
wants to eat that.

Mrs. Cecilia Kanyangwa (01:02):
There's one that we call rep, which I
would liken to collard greens,kale, chamomile, spinach and
many others.
We take pride in drying foodwhen we have it in abundance.

H.E. Rui Vinhas (01:17):
Rabanadas are the proof that nothing goes to
waste in Portuguese cuisine,because you can use bread
leftovers in this dessert.

H.E. Pascale Baeriswyl (01:28):
Its history is linked to shepherds
who spent long hours in themountains.
Legend has it that one of themgot tired of the usual bread and
cheese.

H.E. Rebecca Bryant (01:38):
It's a real favourite and it's messy, but
it's delicious in both summerand the winter.

H.E. Vanessa Frazier (01:46):
Prickly pears are everywhere, everywhere
.
Another thing that you pickwhen you're walking as well, as
long as you have some gloves.

Welcome to our special podcast, dining with
Diplomats.
In this episode, part one,you'll hear about the childhood
memories and secret treats ofgovernment ministers and
ambassadors.
In part two, you'll hear themopen up about the intricacies of
diplomatic dinners, the nearmisses and the value of
gastro-diplomacy.
Although diplomatic diningevokes grand feasts where

(02:20):
multiple courses are served upon fine porcelain emblazoned
with the nation's crest, asyou've just heard, when asked
about their favorite dishes, thediplomats often chose comfort
food.
It's quite a Proustian turnfrom adult worries to our
deepest bonds with food that weformed as a child.
Food is quite literally themost essential requirement of

(02:44):
our existence.
Food is quite literally themost essential requirement of
our existence.
A handful of skipped meals isall it takes for our survival
instinct to kick in.
The UN is obviously involved infood security, but the many
conflicts in the world today,compounded by droughts and
rising sea levels from climatechange, is leading to increased
food precarity.

(03:04):
Some of the ambassadors hadthat in mind when the recipes
they suggested included a noteabout reducing food waste
Throughout history, as soon as asociety secured a diverse
supply of foodstuffs in asufficient quantity, it set
about creating a complex arrayof rituals concerning the
preparation and serving of meals.
Some comestibles were deemedgross, while others became a

(03:28):
source of community pride.
Friendly food rivalries emergedbetween nearby nations, and
sometimes not so friendly.
Even today, an entire peoplecan be reduced to a slur based
on their national dish, andspats over the origin story of a
common dish are well common, sosure.

(03:48):
There may be dishes describedhere that make some listeners a
bit queasy.
In that case, don't try them,but try to understand the
culture and conditions that gaverise to these dishes, whether
that's the climate, the crops orthe native wildlife.
For Dining with Diplomats.
We've spoken with foreignministers, with permanent
representatives so-called,because they lead their

(04:09):
country's permanent mission tothe United Nations, with their
deputies, and with anambassador's spouse.
We're offering up a smorgasbordof recipes from Australia,
brazil, cyprus, the CzechRepublic, estonia, finland,
malta, portugal, slovenia,switzerland, the United States

(04:29):
and Zambia.
The National Cuisine oftenserves as a springboard to
discuss the wider culture andhistory.
For example, stick around untilthe end of part one to hear the
Maltese ambassador'sfascinating description of the
Knights of Malta.
We started chatting withdiplomats about their national

(04:52):
cuisine in September, when worldleaders inevitably beat a path
to the United Nationsheadquarters in New York and
kept going right up until a fewdays before Christmas.
Here are some traditionalChristmas dishes suggested by
the UN ambassadors representingSwitzerland and Portugal
raclette- the name comes fromthe French verb raclette, which
means to scrape.
The base of this dish is a halfwheel of cheese heated in a

(05:29):
specially designed oven.
Once the top is melted, it isscraped over potatoes.
It is often served with pickledonions, cornichons, gherkins
and tea or white wine, but thereare many variations and each
family has their own way ofserving it.
It is eaten all year round, butis especially many variations
and each family has their ownway of serving it.
It is eaten all year round, butis especially appreciated
during the festive season as itis a very convivial dish.

(05:52):
So here in New York I oftenserve it to my colleagues during
winter receptions or we enjoyit during our traditional
Christmas team party.
The dish is originally from theSwiss canton of Valais.
Its history is linked toshepherds who spent long hours
in the mountains.
Legend has it that one of themgot tired of the usual bread and

(06:14):
cheese.
He wanted something warm, butwithout any utensils he could
only melt the cheese directlyover the fire.
Raclette was born Today.
It is linked to many aspects ofour work as diplomats.
Apart from the nice way itbrings people together, the
cheese is, for instance, also anAOP, a protected designation of

(06:35):
origin, which guarantees thateverything from the raw
materials to the productionprocess comes from a clearly
defined region of origin.
This is dealt with at the WorldIntellectual Property
Organization, WIPO, and theWorld Trade Organization, wto.
There is also plenty ofsustainable development goals in
the dish.

(06:55):
Swiss innovation is playing amajor role, helping the
cheesemakers and farmers toimplement the 2030 agenda with
new production techniques that,for example, help to produce
with a reduced water footprint.
I hope you will enjoy theraclette and, in any case, best
wishes for the holiday seasonand Bon Appetit.

H.E. Rui Vinhas (07:18):
Hello, I am Ambassador Rui Vinhas, Permanent
Representative of Portugal tothe UN, and I am very pleased to
share with you one of the mosttraditional Portuguese sweets
for Christmas.
It's called RabanadasNatalícias.
Rabanadas are the proof thatnothing goes to waste in
Portuguese cuisine, because youcan use bread leftovers in this

(07:41):
dessert To frame it in the 2030Agenda for Sustainable
Development.
With this Christmas dish, wefulfill target 12.3 to have per
capita global food waste at theretail and consumer levels and
reduce food losses.
Rabanadas natalícias, alsocalled golden slices, are a

(08:04):
typical Christmas Eve sweet inPortugal.
It dates back to the 15thcentury.
The recipe passed down fromgeneration to generation with
few alterations along the way.
The recipe usually includesmilk, a stick of stale bread,
egg sugar, lemon and cinnamonbread, egg, sugar, lemon and
cinnamon.
They are always present at theChristmas table, reminding us of

(08:27):
our childhood and traditionalholidays dinners.
Cinnamon-flavored treats areeverything during the festive
season.
There are also sorts of ways ofenjoying these amazing spices,
and in Portugal that meansmaking plenty of rabanadas to
snack on or to enjoy as a simpledessert.

(08:47):
They are crispy and sweetslices of toasted French bread
and go really well with a hotdrink on the side.
It's a great way to make use ofany stale bread you might have
left over in the pantry.
So definitely give this recipea try.
The trick is to dip the slicesof bread in milk and eggs and

(09:07):
guess what?
Yes, fry them in butter.
After frying, they are immersedin brown sugar and cinnamon.
Don't forget to try it withporto wine.
Merry Christmas and seasonedgreetings for all and greetings

(09:32):
for all From Prague.

We received recommendations for traditional
Czech Christmas recipes, onesavory and one sweet.
The Czech Republic's Ministerfor European Affairs, martin
Dvorak, said that personally hewould serve the traditional
Czech kuba with the Christmasdinner.
Kuba is made with pearl barleymushrooms and plenty of garlic.
He described it as a simple,flavorful meal with deep roots
in Czech history, traditionallyprepared during Christmas as a

(09:56):
meat-free option.
Minister Dvorak said that forhim it's not just about
tradition but about values.
We should honor more today thatfor him it's not just about
tradition but about values.
We should honor more today,using local ingredients,
reducing waste and embracingsustainability.
And of course, they would haveto be chukrovi, classic Czech

(10:19):
Christmas cookies.
These traditional Czech holidaycookies reminded me of a recipe
that we made every year atChristmas Mandelkränchen.
It's a simple family recipethat calls for beating together
egg yolks, creamed butter, sugarand flour.
You would spread a bit of thebeaten egg whites with a pinch
of tartar on the cookies and topthem with finely chopped
almonds and red and greencolored sugar before baking them

(10:40):
in a slow oven.
Them in a slow oven.
In September, therecommendations were evidently
geared more towards late summerand harvest time.
Here's Finland's ForeignMinister Elina Valtonen and
Ambassador Robert Wood, who hasoften represented the United

(11:02):
States in Security Councilmeetings, but first Estonian
Foreign Minister Margus TSahkna,whose story really resonated
with me.

We n ormally have very traditional
dishes and it's very similar tolike the German cuisine, but
there's one specific thing.
This is the blood sausage.
So we are using the blood andthen we make sausages from that.
If I'm going to explain how wedo that, though, I think nobody
wants to eat that, but this is atraditional thing, so my mother
can do it very well.

(11:32):
Normally, of course, today'speople, they are buying them
from the shop, but it issomething very specific for
Estonia.
When I was younger and astudent beginning of 90s, when
we had nothing after thecollapse of Soviet Union, we got
during the restoration of theprivate property.

(11:52):
We got back our farms and landsand actually my family.
We had the you know animals andwe did everything ourselves.
So I have been the farm countryboy.
I know everything.
I can do the blood sausagesfrom the beginning.

How long do you have to cure?
Do you have to cure the bloodsausage?

It takes, you put it on the oven, maybe
like half an hour.

Well, I think at this stage I would have
to say that my favorite dish isthe carrot pie that my daughter
bakes.
It's a carrot pie which mydaughter bakes Not sure whether
that's so fantasticallytraditionally Finnish, but at
least she makes her Finnishversion of it.
Very Finnish are fresh berries,say strawberries and blueberries
because of the very, very longdays in the summer.

(12:39):
Well, we have a short summer incomparison, but we have almost
20 hours of you know lightsunlight during the day.
It makes those berries,especially the wild ones, very,
very tasty.
When I give those berries to myforeign friends, they're like

(12:59):
well, either this tastes likechildhood or Do you prepare them
somewhere this tastes likechildhood or Do you prepare them
in some way?

You don't have to prepare a?

traditional dish from berries.
You just put the berries andpour some milk on it, perhaps
some sugar, but typically youdon't even need the sugar
because they are sweet.

H.E. Robert A. Wood (13:14):
I mean, one of my favorite dishes and it is
a very multicultural dish iseggplant parmesan, and I know
there are many countries thatkind of claim ownership of this
dish.
It is my favorite when I goback to Washington on the
weekends, my wife and I let mebe honest, my wife prepares it

(13:37):
for me.
She's a wonderful, wonderfulcook and the type of mozzarella
cheese she uses and the type ofeggplants are just wonderful,
and I do help her from time totime make it with a little pasta
on the side and it's justsomething that I enjoy
thoroughly and it relaxes mequite a bit to have that along
with a little glass of wine.

Slovenia is perhaps best known to many
Americans as the native countryof their once and future first
lady, melania Trump.
It's a mountainous land on theAdriatic coast that was ruled by
the Habsburgs until the end ofthe First World War.
It became independent fromYugoslavia in 1991.
Traditional folk recipes couldbe a sign of cultural survival.

(14:20):
Potica, which is knowncolloquially as the queen of
desserts in Slovenia, is onesuch folk dish.
As a side note, I wrote aboutSlovenia's interesting campaign
to join the UN Security Councilfor Foreign Policy and I'll
include the link to that articlein the show notes.
The UN holds annual electionsfor five member states to

(14:42):
two-year terms sitting alongsidethe Council's five permanent
members, and Slovenia is in themiddle of its two-year term.
The Security Council Presidencyrotates monthly among the 15
members.
During Slovenia's Presidency,they always had potica on the
table in the sunny SecurityCouncil Presidency's office and

(15:03):
served it during meetings.

Mr. Klemen Ponikvar (15:04):
Security Council Presidency's office and
served it during meetings.
My name is Clement Ponikvar.
I'm the political coordinatorhere at the Mission of Slovenia.
It means that I'm mergingdifferent roles.
One role is taking care of thecabinet here of the ambassador,
so internally trying to managethe staff.

(15:24):
And then externally I'm part ofthe group of 15 members of the
Security Council who areresponsible to setting up the
stage for our ambassadors tohave meaningful conversations
with each other.
First, references to Putica inreally old, like first Slovenian
books.

Basically, oh , really, really yeah, 15th 16th
century, 15th 16th century Okay.

Slovenia was a land of peasants.
It was made of things thatpeople had at the time eggs,
flour, yeast.
That is needed for this.
So how is it served?
So, a very classic one would bea round one, and you make it in
this clay pot and, yeah, onceyou roll it, you put it in this

(16:09):
clay pot, it grows.
It's a couple of rounds thatyou're basically making with
this, because you need to takeinto account the room
temperature.
You know how it is with yeastand these tissues that are a
little bit more complicated.
So you need to have everythingsorted before sorted, uh, before
uh endeavoring into, intomaking a pizza, but it's um, at

(16:31):
the end, you know, you put it inthe, in the oven, you bake it
around an hour or so and thenyou take it out, you cover it,
you let it rest a little bit, um, and you put some sugar,
powdered sugar, over it.

Then the powdered sugar.

That sounds delicious.
Since it's so heavy, peopleusually drink a glass of milk or
a glass of tea with it.
I think the two most typicalholidays when this dish would be
eaten is indeed Christmas andEaster.
During the Easter it's stillpretty cold around Slovenia.
It's a sweet dish.
Sometimes you can also make itsalty, but it's a cake or a loaf

(17:15):
which is rolled and it comes indifferent tastes, I mean
depending on what you actuallyput in the dough it's.
I think it shows a little bitalso the spirit of Slovenians,
because it's quite a complexdish to make.
Hours and hours of work are putinto this.
It's also, you know, sloveniansare very proud of their own

(17:36):
recipes of this, so they'regoing from one generation into
another generation and itusually takes more than one
person to do it, so it's kind ofa social thing also.
We're a country that stretchesaround the mountains, so
sometimes people wouldn't havethat much in common with each
other on different sides ofmountains.

(17:56):
But this is, I think, somethingthat always connected them this
love for, for this dish.

Did the different historical influences
affect the cuisine and theculture?
I mean, you have the history ofthe Habsburg Empire.
You're so close to Italy.
Is there an Italian influenceon the cuisine?

We are, as you said, on the crossroads.
I mean, there's been influencesfrom all over Europe, from the
south, from the north I meanpart of the Habsburg Empire, you
know.
I think this might be also thereason why potica is so close to
Slovenian hearts, is that thisis something that was kept
entirely Slovenian, like really,really Slovenian.
You know, with thesedevelopments that people had

(18:37):
certain access to certain newproducts that would enable them
to maybe, you know, push thelimits of the taste of putiza.
I don't know, these days Ithink I've heard around that
people are even doing poppy seedwith modern twist, but but yeah
, I think it's something whichis seen as a very, very

(18:58):
traditional dish.

Rebecca Bryant, australia's Deputy
Permanent Representative to theUnited Nations, spoke eloquently
about the hardiness of thefoodstuffs in the land down
under.
In her many foreign postingsshe has served her favorite
Australian dessert pavlova asophisticated dish that requires
patience and skill to make.
Food, like language, oftenrequires translation as we

(19:25):
venture across the globe.
Tell me a little bit about yourfavorite dish and why you feel
that represents the Australianculture so much.

Thanks so much, alex, and it's really
great to be on your podcast herein the Delegates' Lounge.
I'm going to be cheeky andchoose two dishes.
It won't be a surprise toanyone that I choose the pavlova
, which is a quintessentialAustralian dessert.
Egg whites and sugar whippedtogether for a long time to form

(19:55):
this amazing, you know thickkind of meringue-like dessert
that you then bake in a circleand then, once it's cooked, you
pile it with cream and fruit orchocolate, whatever you sort of
taste you're looking for.
We serve pavlova in my house onall special occasions birthdays

(20:21):
, christmas.
It's a real favourite and it'smessy, but it's delicious in
both summer and the winter.
The origins of pavlova areinteresting.
The Australian folkloresuggests that a chef in
Melbourne cooked it to celebrateAnna Pavlova, the ballerina's

(20:41):
first visit to Australia in themid-1940s.
But the New Zealanders claimthe origin story of Pavlova as
well.
So it's you know, it's a littlebit of fun rivalry between
Australia and New Zealand, ourTasman neighbours.
The other dish that I wouldtalk about is one that's not

(21:03):
culturally significant, but it'simportant to me.
I grew up with eight olderbrothers and sisters, so we had
a big table and my mum's way offeeding us all was with bulk
supplies of staples, lots ofcabbage and lots of potato.
And potato bake, cooked by mymum, was, you know, thinly
sliced potatoes layered withcream and nutmeg, salt and

(21:28):
pepper and butter.
It was rich, it was delicious,fantastic in winter, wonderful
with a barbecue and great tofeed the masses.
So my kids, today, when they'refeeling a little bit down and
need some self-care, they'llmake themselves a little potato
bake, just as my mom used tomake it.
So it's a real family favorite.

That sounds like an excellent side dish to
have at the holidays when youhave a lot of people around the
table.
Pavlova is it relatively easyfor a home cook to make for the
first time.
If you don't get them just so,sometimes they can be a little
bit unforgiving if you don't getthem just so sometimes they can
be a little bit unforgiving.

Yeah, it's interesting.
You know, I've lived all aroundthe world and everywhere I go I
make pavlova, often because I'mhosting and I want to share
with people one of my favoritedishes.
And it's different everywhereyou cook it.
So when I was living in thePacific, I found that the
meringue was quite a differentquality, possibly because of the
quality of the eggs.
I actually think they're muchfresher.

(22:30):
In the Pacific You're gettingthem directly from farmers.
But you know, in urban areasyour eggs are older and they've
come through suppliers and somaybe they're you know two weeks
or a month out of the chickenand so maybe they're you know
two weeks or a month out of thechicken.
And I think the fresher theeggs, the harder it is to get
that real marshmallowconsistency on the inside of the

(22:53):
pavlova.
The real trick with a pavlovais to create this beautiful hard
crust or shell on the outside,but this delicious fluffy
meringue on the inside.
On the outside, but thisdelicious fluffy meringue on the
inside.
But yeah, it's not alwayspossible to get that consistency
, depending on whether your eggsare room temperature or how
fresh or old they are.

And how do you whip it?
Is it an electric whipper or doyou have to just beat really
hard?
I mean, is there a special wayto whip it to get that
consistency?

Yeah, it's funny.
When I was living in SolomonIslands, the first time I made
it I didn't have an electricblender or whipper, and so I was
doing it with one of thoserotary blenders and it took a
very, very long time.
You have to whip those eggs forquite a long time to get that
beautiful texture, so very goodto do it with an electric mixer.

So where you were based in the Pacific was
Solomon Islands, and anywhereelse where you represented
Australia.

I lived in Solomon Islands for three years,
but I've also spent quite a lotof time in Papua New Guinea and
Fiji a beautiful part of theworld.

Were they familiar with pavlova and did
they have their own variations?

Yeah, and because they have all the
beautiful fresh tropical fruits.
So in the beautiful house thatI lived in in Honiara, views of
the ocean, mango treeseverywhere, so the pavlovas were
always decorated with tropicalfruits, but it was sometimes
difficult to get the fresh creamthat you really need to make

(24:24):
pavlova special, so you know it.
When we were able to make it,it really was a special occasion
and usually we would have largegroups and everybody loved it.
So, uh, sharing food is a is areal pacific cultural thing.
I know it is the world over,but uh, it's a special time in

(24:44):
the Pacific when all the Wontokcan come together.
Wontok means one family andeveryone would come together and
share food.
It's fantastic.

It sounds absolutely delicious.
Especially desserts are alwaysfun to discuss.
I did actually want to ask youabout one other Australian
dessert, lamingtons, which Ithink is known throughout
Australia but is particularlyfamous in Queensland.
Can you tell us a little bitabout the history and how those
are made?

Yeah, I mean lamingtons were a really
prominent part of my childhood.
We used to use lamingtons forsports, fundraising and things.
We had lamington drives and wewould sell packets of 12
Lamingtons to raise money forsporting teams.
I mean, the origin story ofLamingtons is a little clearer.

(25:35):
As I understand it, it wascreated by Lord Lamington, who
was governor of Queensland fromabout 1896 to the early 1900s,
and the story goes that hisFrench chef, when caught at late
notice about a morning tea forthe ladies in the local area, he

(25:58):
grabbed a day-old sponge todress it up to make a
nice-looking cake.
He dipped it in chocolate andthen rolled it in coconut so
that they could eat it withoutcreating a mess.
So that's the origin story, youknow.
I guess lamingtons today havebeen adapted by people.
Some people cut them in halfand fill them with cream and jam

(26:22):
, but the traditional lamingtonis a very basic sponge dipped in
chocolate and rolled in coconut.
Not my favorite thing, I'll behonest.
They're a bit dry for me, butquintessentially Australian for
sure.

I did find them a little bit dry myself too
, because they are a day-oldsponge cake, but the chocolate
and, if you like, coconut withchocolate, it's a nice mix.
Also, adding a little bit ofjam would be nice.
It's interesting much asAustralia has a unique ecosystem
plants and animals, of coursethe marsupials, but also foods,

(26:58):
weetabix, vegemite why is itthat you think Australia has
such unique foodstuffs?

I mean, my best guess is that because
Australia is so vast and thepopulation is relatively small,
the distances betweencommunities and shops were very
long, and you know.
So I think that a lot of ourstaples are hardy and they last
a long time.
You know, if you're only goingto the shops once a month or
once a fortnight, then you knowit's good to buy in bulk.
And Wheat Bix could honestlylast through a nuclear holocaust

(27:34):
.
I think they're very stablefood and Vegemite as well.
I brought over to the UnitedStates with me jars of Vegemite
that had been in my pantry for acouple of years and they're
still fine.
They never you know, I thinkit's all the yeast in it they
never get moldy or they never gooff.
So you know a lot of ourstaples, they're comfort foods,

(27:59):
they're hearty, they last a longtime and you know, I think
that's just the nature of livingin Australia, where you know it
can be four, five, six hoursdrive to the nearest shopping
center.

And I've grown to really like Vegemite.
It is an acquired taste.
I didn't obviously grow up withit, but if it's really crispy,
crispy toast and plenty ofbutter, that's the thing you do
need butter with Vegemite, Ithink, and then the nice spread
of Vegemite and it's tasty andgood for you.
It has all those vitamins.
Now, another interesting thingis that you, of course,

(28:34):
celebrate Christmas and NewYear's, what we think of as the
winter holidays in the NorthernHemisphere.
You celebrate them in yoursummer and I wonder if there's a
little bit of incongruity.
Do you watch the Christmasmovies from the Northern
Hemisphere and see all of thesnow and you're out by the
Barbies celebrating in hot, hotweather?
I mean, how does that work?

Yeah, I mean, our Christmas traditions
are informed by the US andEurope, of course, but we have
adapted them to suit the weather.
You know summer in Australia ishighly variable.
These days, you know, it can bea cool day, it can be, you know
, 20 degrees Celsius, and that'slovely to have a hot meal.
But if you happen to get a 36or 37 or 38 degree summer's day,

(29:18):
on Christmas Day the last thingyou want to be eating is a
roast turkey.
So we do tend to adapt ourChristmas meal to suit the
climate.
We sometimes have seafood, coldroast chickens, delicious salads
.
Our desserts are, you know,there's always a Christmas

(29:38):
pudding with custard, but youknow, more commonly it's pavlova
, it's ice cream cake, big fruitsalads with cream, that type of
thing.
You know the kids will,everybody will eat lunch.
We will, all you know, get afood coma in the afternoon.
The kids will play outside.
Sometimes we have Christmas bythe beach.

(29:59):
It's really wonderful and youknow it's great to be here in
New York and I'm looking forwardto spending Christmas here this
year.
But I will be thinking aboutAustralia and my family on a hot
summer's afternoon restingafter a delicious Christmas
lunch.

The Consulate General in Brazil in New York
suggested a traditional startercourse that Brazilians often
enjoy while their festiveChristmas or New Year's dinners
are sizzling away in the oven.
In Brazil, food is more thannourishment it's a celebration
of community culture andtradition.
One dish that they sayperfectly embodies this spirit
is pão de queijo, their belovedcheese bread, a staple in

(30:44):
Brazilian homes, bakeries andcafes.
Pão de queijo, their belovedcheese bread, a staple in
Brazilian homes, bakeries andcafes.
Pão de Queijo is more than justa snack.
It's a symbol of hospitalityand the comforting flavors of
the Brazilian dairy farmingregion where it originated,
which is known as Minas Gerais.
Pão de Queijo is naturallygluten-free, made with tapioca
flour, cheese, eggs, milk andoil.

(31:05):
Its unique texture a crispexterior with a soft chewy
interior sets it apart fromother breads.
The use of tapioca flour,derived from the cassava root,
reflects Brazil's indigenousculinary traditions.
The traditional recipe usesMinas cheese, which was added to
UNESCO's global list ofintangible cultural heritage of

(31:28):
humanity just in time for theChristmas holiday season in 2024
.
Pão de queijo pairs beautifullywith coffee or tea, making it
also a popular choice forbreakfast or an afternoon snack.
This dish also tells a story ofresilience and adaptation.
This dish also tells a story ofresilience and adaptation.
Cassava, the key ingredient,was a staple for indigenous
Brazilians long beforePortuguese colonization.

(31:50):
Over time, european influencesintroduced dairy, combining
local and foreign elements intothe Pão de Queijo we know today
that captures the heart ofBrazilian cuisine, a fusion of
flavors, cultures and history.
In New York and many other bigcities, you can find pão de
queijo served fresh at Brazilianrestaurants or, if you prefer,

(32:12):
to bake it at home.
Many grocery stores andBrazilian markets sell frozen
pão de queijo.
Just pop them in the oven andenjoy the authentic taste of
Brazil in minutes.
If you'd like to make them fromscratch, you'll find a link to
the recipe in our show notes,along with recipes for many of
the dishes described in thisepisode.
For home cooks, pão de queijois surprisingly simple to

(32:34):
prepare.
The ingredients are blended tocreate a batter which is then
baked in small, round portionson a tray.
The result is a delightful,bite-sized treat, perfect for
sharing with friends.
For those who like toexperiment, it is common to
slice the pound de caju after itis ready and add fillings like
shredded chicken or pork, someextra cheese or, for the sweet

(32:56):
lovers, dulce de leche orNutella.
We recently spoke with CeciliaMalambo, the wife of Zambia's UN
ambassador and president of theUnited Nations Delegations
Spouses Club, giving her aunique position to describe the
spouse's role in diplomaticdining in the second part of
this special.

(33:17):
It's a flat, landlocked countrysouth of the equatorial zone
with three distinct seasons thataffect agriculture and diet,
and there are varying culinarytraditions in the regions.
Christmas falls within theirhot, rainy summer.
As a former British colonyuntil 1964, zambians share the
English language and a love ofafternoon tea.

(33:38):
Welcome, cecilia.
Thank you for joining us todayfor our special episode called
Dining with Diplomats.

Mrs. Cecilia Kanyangwa Mi (33:47):
Thank you, Alex, for having me on
your wonderful podcast.
My name is Cecilia KanyangwaMilambo.
I am from Lusaka, Zambia.
I am the spouse of thepermanent representative to the
United Nations for Zambia, DrChola Milambo.

First, I did want to ask if your country has
something you would consider anational dish that you would
like to see served, perhaps, atthe United Nations to represent
your country, and why it is ofimportance to your culture.

Mrs. Cecilia Kanyang (34:24):
Absolutely so.
Zambia does have a staple foodcalled nshima.
Basically, this is made fromcornmeal, mixing water and
cornmeal.
A taste for those that havenever had it before would be
likened to white rice and itgoes with a variety of dishes.

(34:45):
Likened to white rice and itgoes with a variety of dishes.
Now, nshima is what we call itin Zambia, and other countries
serve it as well.
South Africa calls it pap,zimbabwe calls it saza, and I
know that Kenya has it as well.
Or the eastern part of Africathey call it ugali.
So it would be great to have itas a step of food at the UN,

(35:08):
seeing that many Africancountries do serve it and those
that would taste it for thefirst time actually enjoy it and
ask for it many times when theyvisit Zambia or here at our
residence.

Does this have a distinct flavor?
Your cornmeal dish?

Mrs. Cecilia Kanyangwa Mil (35:26):
It's like rice plain, white rice.

So you add the meat and the vegetables for
the flavor.

Mrs. Cecilia Kanyangwa Mila (35:33):
Yes , that is why it's so popular.
It's so easy to make and blendswith almost anything.
Then we have our own relish.
So we say relish Shima is acarbohydrate, and the way we
serve it it has to go with avegetable and a protein in order
to have a balanced meal.
So we have a variety ofvegetables in Zambia okra,

(35:58):
collard greens there's one thatwe call rep, which I would liken
to collard greens, kale,chamomile, spinach and many
others.
We take pride in drying food.
When we have it in abundance,we dry it, salt it and sun-dried
so that we can enjoy thesemeals in the seasons that these

(36:20):
vegetables are not available.
And then we have certainregions or provinces that do
cattle ranching.
For example, my husband is fromthe southern part of the
country and they take pride incattle ranching, so we know
where to go for beef steak.

That's a really well-rounded diet and the
vegetables sound delicious.
Those are all obviously warmweather vegetables I'm thinking
okra and collard greens, and Ido know you have some
seasonality there.
Do you have vegetables thatdon't grow in your winter?

Mrs. Cecilia Kanyangwa Milam (36:58):
So our cold season will be likened
to spring weather here, but weZambians consider that as our
cold season.
We'll bring out our coats andwhatnot, but the cold cannot be
compared to the snow or thecoldest season here in the US.
So yes, in lieu of not havingthose vegetables in that season,

(37:21):
come the dry ones that I talkedabout earlier.
How we preserve those is weboil them, we salt them and put
them out in the sun Such thatwhen you boil them in those
seasons they become fresh again.
And one of the favoritedelicacies is mixing it with

(37:42):
pounded groundnuts Peanuts here,Blend them or pound them with a
mortar and pestle sieve them,and that powder, when mixed with
most of these vegetables, is sodelicious and that is another
popular delicacy.
So that's what we prepare mostof these dry vegetables with.

In the Northern Hemisphere we use a lot
of nuts around Christmas andobviously traditionally it was
cold and not much was growing inthe far northern hemisphere in
Christmas, so you'd have a lotof dried and cured things at
Christmas, but you still havehot weather at Christmas.
Are there special dishes youhave there, or do you go with

(38:22):
the big, you know heavyChristmas dinner even though
it's hot out?

So Christmas for us?
Chicken and rice.
So rice in the time of mygrandparents and parents was a
luxury.
People would only have it onChristmas Day.
In most Zambian homes it'll bechicken and rice on Christmas
Day.

And is the chicken stuffed?

Ours is not stuffed.
We cut it up in pieces and boilit Very basic tomato, onion and
salt and cooking oil.
You know, brown it and that'swith very thick gravy.

But do you brown it after you boil it?
So you boil it first and thenbrown it.

Mrs. Cecilia Kanyangwa Milamb (39:05):
I boil it.
When the water drains, youreserve some which is like a
broth.
Put the broth aside, you fry itin the oil, or even its own oil
, because chicken has some oil.
My paternal grandmother was adomestic science teacher in her
day, and when she retired andmoved to the village in her

(39:26):
little hut she made the bestchicken gravy.
Up to now, I've never eatensuch delicious chicken like she
did, and she used the actualanimal fat.
It was so delicious and that'sthe tradition that we've
continued, though we usemodern-day cooking oil.
It could be vegetable oil,olive oil or any of these that

(39:49):
are available.

So, if I understand right, you boil it
first and then you drain all buta little bit of water, and what
would you add to the water tocreate the gravy?

Okay , so when you drain chicken, you
put your oil, if the chickendoesn't have enough animal fat,
and you fry it, and then you addyour tomatoes, your onions and
the broth that you had before.

And for about how long do you boil it before
frying it?

You have to keep an eye on it and
unfortunately there are norecipes written down.
So you boil that the blooddrains and the soup or the broth
will start to thicken, sothat's what preserves the flavor
.
And then you brown it, mix thatbroth that you had tomatoes,

(40:41):
onions, salt, others add curryor any other modern spices these
days Do you need a?

thickener Like do you use the cornmeal to
thicken it or you just let itthicken from the fat?

It thickens on its own.

I'm also curious that rice was a
specialty at Christmas becauseit was relatively scarce, and
I'm wondering if rice does notgrow as well in your country
because of the climate, or is itjust that it wasn't there to
begin with as a tradition andwas a more recent import?

So it's not the step of food.
So rice was a luxury.
But we do have two regions thathave historically grown rice.
One of them is in Mongul, inthe Western province.
This rice from Mongul is morefor a dessert Rice puddings.
It's very soft and has awonderful aroma.

(41:34):
Oh my goodness, you cannotresist it when you smell it.
And because it's in the swampyregion, they're able to grow
that.
Then there's another region,which is partially in Tanzania
and Zambia, called Nakonde.
So we have Nakonde rice.
Those are the two prominentregions, but the rest we all do

(41:55):
cornmeal and we prefer cornmealover rice in most cases.
And what about fruit?
The first one is mango,delicious.

A lot of people's favorite fruit.

Absolutely .
It's a tropical fruit and,again, each region has a
different taste of the mango.

Oh, so there is some regionality or different
varieties.

Absolutely so.
Some of the mangoes that youwould get from Mongo wouldn't
taste the same as those inLusaka, but all of them are
delicious.
It just depends on your tastebuds.
We have big mango, which islike what you would find in most
stores here.
The most delicious, though, isthe small mango.

(42:42):
Oh, my goodness.
This mango has a lot of juice,such that most of us, of course,
we do this in the privacy ofour backyards we prefer to eat
it from the hand, such that eventhe juice from the mango is
dripping down your hand.
There's something about that.

(43:03):
It's a cultural thing in somefamilies that we have, of course
, oranges, lemons.
There's a certain region inZambia, in Muinilunga,
Northwestern province, wherethey have endless pineapples.
Most of the food is organic.

Well, with the heat, I'm certain it's very
refreshing.

Absolutely .

You know, I was also curious because you
have just amazing diversitywithin the country and I'm
wondering if that also affectsthe cuisine.

Yes , so we have a total of 72
tribes.
Actually English happens to bethe official language because
we're a British colony, so these72 tribes originate from 10
provinces.
Each province or region has adelicacy.
You are right, alex, it doesthat it boasts about.

(43:56):
I told you already about myhusband's region, who take pride
in cattle ranching, and so weknow they have the beef.
In my province I'm from Easternprovince there's one popular
delicacy which is a special typeof rodent called mbeba.
Oh, my goodness, I never hearthe end of it.
We're told.

(44:16):
You know many people look downon that, but it's actually
delicious.

Is it farmed or hunted?

It's hunted.
You have to dig holes in theground.
You know it's a wholespectacular.
Do you find it in burrows?
They do burrows.
They smoke them out and you seethem jumping out of holes.
You know it's all spectacularand you know it's like you went
hunting.
You know you come back as ahero.

Oh really Is there a special hunting season
and hunting parties go outseason and hunting parties go
out.

Yes , there's seasons when you can
hunt them out.
So you know it's exciting forus.
We're looking at our men fromEastern Province.
They are our heroes.

They brought us food and other tribes are
making fun of us.
Oh, there is a rivalry and yousee that everywhere.
It's funny how food is.
Well, it's.
One of the most basic things tohuman survival is food and
drink.
But as soon as peopledifferentiate in their diets,
they start to get competitiveabout who has the better food.

They make fun of it, but I think
secretly wish they could have it.
It is tasty, very healthy too.

Is it?
Oh good, it has good nutrition.

Yeah , there's one popular tradition
called matebeto.
So when one is about to getmarried, the bride-to-be, with
her family, cooks all the dishespossible from her tribe, eat
the groom and all his family andfriends.
Basically, the reason for thattradition is to say, in their

(45:47):
future home, this will be someof the dishes that will be
prepared that should be acceptedand not treated as foreign
foods.
Mateveto, the bride and herfamily cook at their family home
.
So the bride's mother choosestrusted friends, otherwise women
that are there to ensure thefood is cooked properly and on

(46:10):
time.
Sometimes it's overnightcooking and there's drums
playing, there's music, there'ssinging, there's dancing and
about 11, 12, all the food isloaded into trucks and taken to
the grooms.
So he's there as well with hispeople, the food is taken and
they show them dish by dish.

(46:31):
This is this, this is that.
Don't be afraid, you can havesome rodent, I'm kidding.
And once they finish showingthem the food, the bride's
family leaves.

You comment on the fact that English is a
common language because it's apost-colonial country.
It was a British colony until1964.
So is there still any influenceof British cookery?

The most influence we have, I would
say, is the tea.
Still do the afternoon tea.
We take pride in that at 16hours, which is for people Okay.

No, that's pretty traditional, and is this
something you do at home withyour family, or do you also
observe it if you're working?

Oh , yes, yes, Even at work, when I
used to work, I needed to havemy tea, you know, in my little
drawer, so that I could have mytea at 4 pm.
So it's a tradition that we'veall gotten accustomed to.
Especially in my grandparents'time, my parents' time, the four
o'clock tea was very important.

I was delighted to receive a recipe
for a traditional olive pastryfrom the permanent
representative of the Republicof Cyprus to the United Nations,
maria Mikhail.
I was fortunate to cover Cyprusyears ago when I received a
fellowship from the GermanMarshall Fund of the United
States GMF-US to support thestories that I contributed from
Cyprus to the InternationalHerald Tribune.
Although many years have passedsince I lived in Cyprus to the
International Herald Tribune,although many years have passed

(48:11):
since I lived in Cyprus, imagesof the island's sunny olive
groves are etched on my memory.
This traditional Cypriot olivepie or loaf is often shared with
guests or nibbled on shadedverandas while sipping a cup of
strong Cypriot coffee.
The ambassador's recipe forthis traditional Cypriot
delicacy is simple to make.
The ingredients are vegan andthe result is delicious.
You start by rubbing flour andolive oil together until the

(48:33):
mixture resembles finebreadcrumbs.
Then you add baking powder andorange juice and knead the dough
.
While the dough is resting, youblend together olives, fresh
coriander, fresh spring onionsand spearmint into a smooth
paste.
You roll out the dough asthinly as possible and spread
the olive paste evenly acrossthe dough.
Then you tightly roll up thedough so the olive paste forms a

(48:56):
spiral and sprinkle the loafwith sesame seeds, line a baking
tray with parchment paper andbake the olive pie roll for 40
minutes or until nicely golden.
Although slices of this treatcan be enjoyed during the midday
heat in Cyprus, they can alsobe savored by a crackling
fireplace in cooler climates.
Like the Brazilian Pão deQueijo, this could be a tasty

(49:18):
starter course for a festivedinner.
Malta is a unique culture tuckedinto a tiny archipelago in the
Mediterranean Sea.
We spoke with the country's UNambassador, vanessa Fraser,
about its cuisine, which evolvedfrom traditions dating back to
the era when the islands wereruled by the Knights of Malta.

(49:41):
But don't try addressing yourcorrespondence with the Knights
to her office.
The Republic of Malta and thesovereign military order of the
Knights are her office.
The Republic of Malta and theSovereign Military Order of the
Knights are now separateentities.
The Knights, who are focused onhumanitarian assistance these
days, spoke in a SecurityCouncil meeting while Malta held
the Council Presidency.
We recently sat down withAmbassador Fraser in her office

(50:03):
near the UN headquarters as shewas preparing to conclude her
Security Council term.
Ambassador Fraser, thanks somuch for making time for us
today, so let's begin by youdescribing a favorite dish that
you would like to see representyour country.

So I'm really torn between two favorite
dishes.
We are, of course, an island,so fish has to feature.
But we have a very special fishcalled lampuki, and lampuki is
a mahi-mahi.
It starts in the Maltese watersin August and our season goes

(50:42):
on until December.
The lampuki, when it's inMaltese waters, is very small
and then it swims through theMediterranean courses, into the
Atlantic Ocean, through theStraits of Gibraltar and
eventually reaches the Americanshores and becomes mahi-mahi and
massive right and flattens itsface because of its swimming in

(51:04):
the ocean.
So it is something that linksmore to the United States also.
But I love this fish.
It is a really important staplein our diet we have.
As I said, its season is fromAugust to December and it is

(51:25):
extremely delicate and sweet.
It's white fish and it doesn'thave bones it has one spine,
basically.
So we feed it to children.
So from when we're young we eatthis fish and we cook it in
various ways, and the mostsimple way is that we just cut
it up in thick wedges, cover itin flour and fry it with a lot

(51:51):
of garlic, and it's greatbecause you can actually eat it
raw.
So really all you need is tohave it crispy, you know.
So you fry it just till it getsa little bit crispy and I
suppose good malty olive oil yes, good olive oil, great garlic,
and you just cut it up intochunks and and fry it until you

(52:14):
see that the skin is all niceand crispy.
And we eat it immediately hot,or you can have it cold on
salads.
But then we also make lampukipie, oh wow yeah, okay.

So you said you can eat it raw if you wait.
I mean that's your favoritedish?
Absolutely the fish and thenthey just put a little citrus
but that's you know but thelampuki pie sounds fascinating.
How do you make?

that fantastical, so so do you
actually bake the fish.
Yes, we bake it in the pot.
So when it is Obviously in thebeginning of the season, it is
small, less than a foot, andvery tender and very expensive.
But later in the season, whenit grows to about a foot and a
half or two feet and it's alsomuch thicker and it is abundant

(53:05):
in the heavy season.
So it's a very cheap meal wewould buy it.

So, if I understand right, lampuki are
basically baby mahi mahi.
So they start in your watersand do they have to be a certain
size before you can eat them?
Like, are you restricted fromeating them when they're too
small?
I?

wouldn't be able to, I would have to
throw them back in, so theywould.
And then according to theirsizes, when, and then according
to their sizes, when the lampukiseason will be announced.
But when they are in fullseason, then we buy, you know,
many of them, and we just usethe meat and make it into a pie,
and it really depends on thefamily recipes.

But we bake it also Roughly.
How do you make it?
It sounds like a seasonal dish,and would you make that around
this time of year, aroundDecember?

Yes, so it's almost a holiday dish yes,
but we wouldn't serve it inchristmas because, then
christmas is traditional turkeythey were very british right and
we need, you know, the turkeyand with with all the fixings,
very similar to turkey, but nocranberries oh no.

Right, so you've got parsnips.

Yes, but no fruit with our meat.
That's not for us at all.
Very, very, very British withour Christmas bread.
But lampouki pie is very, veryMaltese and you can, you know,
chunks of it after being fried.
You just can't put it betweentwo nice pieces of.

(54:31):
Maltese bread, which is thebest bread in the world Right?
San just arrived from Malteseon Sunday and he brought me two
loaves, so we're like yes.

Is it like a French bread or a sourdough
bread?
It's a sourdough bread.

Oh, I love sourdough bread, very similar
to what you would find in thePuglia region, and we love our
bread.
And, oh my gosh, fried lampuquiin between two crusts of our
bread is the best sandwich youcan have with our fantastic
tomatoes.

Would that be a lunchtime dish, something you
might have by the beach?

Sure, you can give to the kids for school.
We also bake lampuqui in a veryMaltese way with a lot of
capers and olives Okay, capersis perfect.

Capers is another thing.
And is that how you put it inthe pie?
Or you said it depends on thefamily recipe.

Yes, you, would put capers in the recipe.
Capers is another staple in theMaltese dishes.
So I remember walking aroundthe island, you know, with my
family.
We would pick capers and thendry them in the garden, soil
them, eat them.
It's something.
Capers are wild.

They grow all over the countryside.
It's fascinating because I'veused capers with fish and to me
they come in a bottle.

You know, like olives come in a bottle
capers come in a bottle.

What do they look like?
Do they grow on bushes?

Yes, they're bushes, so so like
blackberries.
Exactly, it's capers, it's abeautiful plant because a caper,
if you don't pick it, blossomsinto a beautiful flower which
has white petals and violettentacles inside.
It's actually a very beautifulflower and they grow wild on the

(56:06):
stone walls that divide thefields in the countryside.
you know, basically there arethe stone walls and we have a
particular type of wall in inour fields, where the, the
stones are placed one on top ofthe other but are not plastered.
And this is because we have weare an arid island waters.

(56:28):
Water is very difficult for us.
We don't have a lot of ourwater by reverse osmosis, so
when it rains we try to use thewater as much as possible, and
so our fields are terraced.
And they have these cobblestonekind of walls and with, you know
, maltese limestone placed ontop of each other so that the
water can seep through the stonefrom one field to the other.

(56:50):
And there, in between thestones, the caper plant is
rampant.
It grows, and can you go wild.

Like you can take the children and go picking
wild capers.
Oh yeah, that's what we do.

We take these long walks plastic bags,
ziplock bags and picking themand it's fun.
I remember picking wildblackberries where I grew up.
These wolves also have wildasparagus you pick up the wild
asparagus on the capers and it'svery nice.
So that is for me, lampuki.
I love being in Malta in Augustand I try to you know if I'm on

(57:24):
a holiday.
And coming back to my posting, Itry to wait till the 4th, 5th
September so I could eat Lampuki.

So you time your vacations home around the.

Lampuki season, Because for me it's
something I love.

I have not had Maltese wine, so I imagine
it's only sold in a fewcountries, maybe perhaps even in
Europe.
But what kind of wine is it?
Do you primarily produce redwine?
Are there certain varieties?

They have europe, but what?

kind of wine is it?
Do you primarily produce redwine?
Are there certain varieties?
Okay, and white wine?

certain varieties do.
They do better because there'sa hot arid, which is great,
because, um, vines need tostruggle right in order to be
very good.
So they grow on rocks, and it'sgreat we have it's for it.
Our soil is salty.
Our wine has a great tastebecause of our terrain.
We like our white wine insummer, of course, but our red

(58:16):
wine is also very heavy andfull-bodied.
We also have a liquor which wemake, which is you know,
everybody knows Limoncello,right.
We do something very similar.
We have prickly pears.
Call it prickly pears, oh,prickly pears, it's called
baitra.
So the fruit, the prickly pear,we call it baitra, and the
liqueur is called baitra.
And it's lovely, you can haveit.

(58:39):
you can drink it straight up,very cold, or you can mix it
with very dry sparkling wine, orI like to make pitches, kind of
like pims, with it and serve itas cocktails like that, and
this is baitra.
The prickly pear tree isanother tree that you find
everywhere in malta because itprotects the feeds, so the

(59:03):
prickly pears are everywhereeverywhere another thing that
you pick when you're walking, aswell, as long as you have some
gloves.
Then another dish I really loveand it is our national dish is
rabbit.
I know that the Americans get abit queasy.
I love to fry it in a lot ofgarlic.

It sounds like that's the olive oil garlic
.

That is your fry-out Dip the bread in
the garlic and the juices andit's delicious.
We also use the bony parts, sothe ribs and maybe the neck,
whatever, but the bony parts ofthe rabbit would then be made
into a stew and you would startwith pasta with the stew sauce

(59:47):
on it, and then you would havethe fried rabbit.
You would start with oh yousauce on it and then you would
have the fried rabbits.

You would start with oh, oh, you mean when
you did, when you played it up,you play it.
Yes, you put the spaghetti.

Normally it was b and you can either eat,
I mean you can make, so you canuse the bony parts to make a
pasta sauce with tomatoes.
So it's's served with pasta andthe sauce and the bony parts
would be fried up in garlic andtomatoes and put on top of the
sauce.
Or you can use more you know youcan and then you fry the meaty

(01:00:21):
parts, or you can use the entirerabbit and make a stew Olives,
capers, tomatoes in a stew andthen you would eat some on the
pasta and some then as a stewOkay, olives, capers, tomatoes
in a stew and then you would eatsome on the pasta and some then
as a stew, with red and thesauce that goes between the
pasta and the bony parts.

J. Alex Tarquinio (01:00:39):
Would that be sort of a traditional marinara?

H.E. Vanessa Frazier (01:00:41):
sauce, it's a tomato.
Imagine a bolognese sauce, butinstead of minced meat it would
be fried rabbit.
Okay, okay.

I can picture that.
No, that sounds absolutelydelicious.

But the rabbit, that is actually a
national dish, national dish isvery strange, but we were, you
know, in the times of theknights from the knights of
malta were in malta, they wouldhunt a lot for these hunting
lodges of the knights and theywear a lot of wild hair malta
and they would hunt them becausethey were, were noble.
Of course they also exercisedthe sports of nobility, hunting

(01:01:12):
being one of them.
And this is how the rabbit thenbecame part of our cuisine.
Now we don't hunt it, of courseit is raised, but it is our
national dish and we have thenational dog which we call kelp,
tal fenec, and fenec is rabbitin M rabbit and maltese, oh, so
they're rabbit hunters and thekelp is the dog, so it's the dog

(01:01:34):
of the rabbit, whatever.
So it's the, the specific dog.
It's a pointer breed, um, so itlooks kind of like a greyhound,
very half-arse uh dog and cansee in the dark.
So was you, you know, has likekind of like cat eyes, so it was
used, you know, as I kind oflike cut eyes, so it was used
for hunting.

And it was a dog Hunting rabbits at night or
at dusk.

Hunting rabbits.
It was a dog for rabbits.
It's the official name ofMaltese.
It's Kereptal Fenech.
It's our national dog, andcombines with our national dish.
We don't need a dog, though.

No, I did actually want to ask you about
the maltese knights.
Sadly, I've never actually beento malta, at least not yet.

Um, I did spend some time in cyprus,
actually as a journalist someyears ago, but I do remember, uh
, their knights yes, so there'sa great tradition between the
knights of malta and malta, sowe consider them a separate
country and we exchangeambassadors.
We recognize them as sovereign.
In fact, the Knights of Maltais their short name.

(01:02:35):
Their official name is theSovereign Military Order of the
Knights Hospitaller and thenit's of Jerusalem, of Rhodes and
of Malta, but everybody justcalls them the Knights of Malta,
and there's a lot of of, evenhere at the UN.
I invariably receive letters ontheir behalf, and they mine
also, and people don'tunderstand that we are different

(01:02:56):
.
I mean, it really is for usanother country so they have.

If they have their own sovereignty, do they
have a territory they do have?

territory in Rome.
Their headquarters in Rome issovereign territory Within
Vatican City.
No, it's actually in Rome andtheir palace is sovereign
territory Very much where it'svisiting the family trees of
some of the knights when theywere incredible.
Do they have?

J. Alex Tarquini (01:03:21):
representation .
They do, they have observers,they have observers, they are
great humanitarians and theyhave remained.

This was have observer status.
They have great humanitariansand they have, you know,
remained.
This was their original cause.
So they were set up.
They were established in orderto assist the pilgrims during
the Crusades Christian pilgrimswho were going to the Holy Lands
during the Crusades and so theywere hospiters.
In fact, they are the Knights,hospitallers, the sovereign

(01:03:50):
order, and that is their corevocation and they remain till
today.
They're called because they runhospitals, blood banks, they do
a lot of humanitarian work.
We did hear them in the council, in fact, yesterday, briefing
on the humanitarian whether theycarry out, and we had our
presidency.
We also asked them to brief ontheir work in syria, on the
humanitarian work that theycarry out.
But at the time they were inMalta, which was from 1535 to

(01:04:15):
1798, they ruled Malta, and theycome from eight what they
called longs, which is why theyhave an eight-pointed cross.
And at the time these longs,which in French translates as
languages, they were differentcountries, but now some of them
are in the same country.
So you have Castile Aragon,espagne or Spain, for example,

(01:04:39):
and they really were different.

long at the time they were different
languages.
Now they've merged into Spanishand French, but the regional
dialects were very important.

And they're very noble because they
were the second sons of noblefamilies and had to have three
generations of nobility fromboth the mother and the father's
side.
So very, very noble.
And they would take the vows ofchastity, poverty and obedience
which, when their inheritance,went to the order.
And they left a great heritage,cultural heritage.

(01:05:09):
In malta, um, we have, you know, the most beautiful caravaggio
in the world which wascommissioned for their patron
church, um, in when the capitalcity was built.
Valetta, our capital city, wasbuilt during the time of the
knights in Malta and was namedafter the grandmaster at the
time, who was La Vallette, andwe have many Mattia Preti, for

(01:05:36):
example.
The most great painters of theera were commissioned and we
have the most beautiful,beautiful churches filled with
incredible art by these artists.
And they left a very, veryimportant cultural heritage in
Malta.
We have a very importantarchive of the Knights, also in

(01:05:56):
Malta.
They left not only a culturalheritage but also education and
the Catholic tradition.
We were already Catholic.
In fact, we were given to Maltaby Charles V, who was the
emperor of the two Sicilies, buthe was a Holy Roman emperor and
we were given to them becauseoften the Turks had ousted the

(01:06:22):
knights.
First from Jerusalem they wentto Rhodes and then from Rhodes
they were ousted again by theTurks.
They spent, I believe, 17 yearsat sea and the Holy Roman
Emperor gave them Malta to haveterritory.
And this is when they weregiven Malta for one falconer,
which then leads to the oldeststory about the.

Maltese falcon.

They really did.
The knights really did have togive the emperor a falconer, but
not a bejeweled.
But it makes a great movie.
But that's because falconry, ofcourse, was a very important
sport at the time.
We still have Maltese falconsin Malta.
They were consideredprestigious, so it was and you

(01:07:05):
know it was an important payment.
The Maltese falcon actually infalconry sport was a prestigious
animal.
Is the sport of falconry stillpracticed?
Not really, but you can go tothe Maltese falcon center and
you can see and learn more aboutfalcons.

And those falcons may be descendants from
the falcons that were used infalconry in medieval times, used
in falconry and in medievaldynasties.

Frank Radford (01:07:32):
And that's it from the Delegates Lounge.
We'd like to thank our esteemedguests, who've graciously
allowed us to share theirhard-earned insights into what
really matters.
And then there's you, ourlisteners, who we hope are
sufficiently edified to clamorfor more of the same.
Do drop in for a weekly episodeon Thursday, or, from time to
time if we're on the road, forspecial events, in which case
there'll be a bonus episode.

(01:07:52):
Subscribe wherever you listento podcasts and, if you like
what you've heard, please take amoment to rate or review the
show, as it helps others whoshare your abiding interest in
world affairs to find their wayto the Delegates Lounge.
You can connect with us on manypopular social media platforms
or reach out to us directly atinfothedelicatesloungecom.
We're a small team so we can'trespond to every message, but we

(01:08:15):
will read them.
Our show this week was writtenand produced by the host and by
yours truly executive producer,frank Radford.
Until next time, keep calm andcurious, thank you.

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