September 20, 2024 • 40 mins
Are you ready for an eye-opening conversation that bridges the old school with the new? Join us as Pastor Lauzon, who’s been in ministry for almost five decades, shares his journey from being skeptical of Christian hip-hop to seeing its powerful impact in church services. We’ll explore how this new wave of music is breaking down barriers and delivering timeless spiritual truths in a way that hits home with today’s audience.
From tent revivals in the '40s to the hip-hop beats of today, Pastor Lauzon has seen it all. He takes us through the history of church music, reflecting on the soul-stirring hymns of the past and the fiery praise of the charismatic movements. Now, he’s opening up about the challenges of reaching a younger generation and why message-driven music might be the key to bridging the generational gap.
But we’re not stopping there. We’ll dive deep into the art Christian Hip-Hop and how it can touch hearts in a way traditional preaching sometimes can’t. Pastor Lauzon shares his thoughts on staying authentic in ministry, evolving preaching styles to be more compassionate, and the legacy of trailblazers like Carmen.
And wait until you hear about his ideas for Friday night gatherings! We’re talking innovative ways to keep the faith alive through digital content and community outreach. If you’re curious about how to keep your ministry fresh and impactful, this is one episode you won’t want to miss.
Pastor Lauzon's List ( Picked by "Prophecy"
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6EdUc5h3eHauX43iprhgOt?si=MiJpGEMFTiiNkYjkZMpbXw
All The Spots You Can Link With Me At!
https://dot.cards/psalmistcypher
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Psalm Escipher.
I'm here with Pastor Luzon, 47years pastoring at the church,
and we're going to be talkingabout Christian hip-hop.
Pastor, this is going to be atough question.
How do you feel about whatother churches might think of us
making a push for Christianhip-hop at our church?
(00:25):
I mean, I know you don't careabout other churches or what
they're doing and stuff likethat, and they shouldn't care
about what we're doing.
But there are people that mightcome visit our church, that
might not, I don't know, likewhat we're doing, and then the
word will get around once westart building a crowd or people
(00:47):
coming in and stuff like that.
And how do you feel about that?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I'll tell you what Jesus said.
His disciples one day wereconcerned about other people
that weren't in their flock, soto speak, preaching the word and
praying for people, and theywanted Jesus to stop.
And he said if they're notagainst us, they're for us.
So if other people come in andit would be other ministers that
(01:13):
know me, they would just knowhow I am anyway.
But other people come in, ifthat bothers them, then their
heart isn't right, and if it'snot their cup of tea, so to
speak, then they need to gowhere it works for them.
But if it works for us, we'regoing to do.
Whatever God opens up for us todo.
(01:35):
We're going to do.
I never preach a message, Inever do anything just because
other people are doing it.
We always do what God wants usto do in our church.
I don't know that we've doneanything that has ever offended
anybody, because everythingwe've ever done here has always
(01:57):
been a blessing to people.
But if that's not their cup oftea, maybe their eyes haven't
been opened yet, because minewasn't.
Yes, until you actually did it,and I would have never.
I would have never thought in amillion years that I would have
been open to hip hop Because itmade no sense to me from what
(02:19):
I've heard.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
But a week or so ago, when I asked everybody how many
in here listen to hip-hop, theyraised their hand.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
I was floored I couldn't, you know what.
I didn't look back.
How many people did raise theirhand I don't know.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
There's probably 20, some people really oh yeah,
there was you know what.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
I was a little intimidated by looking back.
I just stayed looking at you.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
I was like man, both sides of the aisle, you know
what?
They weren't intimidated orafraid to do it, they just stuck
, stuck their hand up.
I was just shocked.
I really was.
I didn't count, but I seen themboth sides.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
That's great, I was pretty excited about that.
That's great which?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
means that there are people that listen to that type
of music, but the message, it'sall about the message.
You know.
Whether it's a country westernsong, I agree, you know.
But it has the right message.
If it's hip-hop, if it's rock,when they talk about Christian
(03:12):
rock, I always had a problemwith that because I'm from old
school, I know what rock androll is, but my rock and roll is
different than the rock androll today.
I'm like Beach Boys rock androll different than the rock and
roll today.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
You know, I'm like beach boys rock, yes, yes, kind
of stuff.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
But you know I was never black sabbath or you know,
was it pink floyd and yes andkiss.
I was never into any of thatstuff.
So when I hear christian rockthat's what I relate to I think
like that, how in the worldcould they call it christian
rock and actually minister?
But these kids, this youngergeneration, they go to a
(03:46):
different beat.
It's totally different, you'reright and if we're going to win
them, we have to adjust oursails.
We're on the same ocean, ofcourse.
We just adjust our sailsbecause if you try to run your
boat against the wind, it'llpush you back.
Yes, you adjust your sails andthe wind will take you where you
(04:07):
need to go.
So that's how I would look atit.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
One thing I learned from you is that you know the
enemy will use anything to tryto bring you down right.
But I also have to look at thecup half empty, cup half full.
The other side of the coin,right, we can use anything to
try to bring or deliver themessage.
(04:31):
So God can you know we'll plantthe seed and he waters it right
.
So, rap being what everybodyknows, rap to be right, very
vulgar, everybody knows rap tobe right, very, very vulgar, the
wrong messages, talking aboutdrugs and money, and you know
everything else in between.
(04:52):
I don't need to point it outbecause I'm sure everybody knows
.
But then you have theseChristian rappers that are
really, like, very talented.
I've been listening to hip hopfor a long, long time, the
majority part of my life, and Iwas what they call a hip-hop
head.
That you know.
I'm looking for the people whoare putting the words together
(05:13):
really nice and going to thebeat and different types of
styles and stuff.
So I can tell a very goodrapper from an okay one or a bad
one I can do that right from anokay one or a bad one.
I can do that right.
Some of these Christian rappersthat aren't being compensated
and if they are very littlecompared to somebody who's
cussing and is mainstream.
(05:34):
If they was just to add cussingto their raps, they would be
millionaires.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
You know what I mean.
But they're using it for godand they make it very known in
their music.
That is not about the money,it's about the message.
You know right, and it is aform, a different form of, of
worship music.
But if it could happen with rap, I think and this is just me
saying I think it could happenwith rock and roll.
It could happen with rap.
(06:04):
I think, and this is just mesaying I think it could happen
with rock and roll.
It could happen with whateverbecause you know, rap being what
it was, and then you have andChristian hip hop is having a
huge upscale.
Now it's starting to go catch alot of people.
There's a lot of actors orsports people like athletes and
(06:29):
and all types of people that areconverting into christianity.
And just the other day, at the,at the moment of filming this
video or this podcast, however,you're listening uh, there is a
a uh major hip-hop artist.
His name is kendrick lamar, andhe was mentioning about how he,
how he needs to change his life, possibly pointing towards
(06:52):
christianity, because he spokeof two very popular christian,
uh, hip-hop artists that helooks up to.
Now this guy, kendrick lamar, isone of the the juggernauts in
mainstream hip-hop right now, atthis point.
So to hear him say that and andspeak about wanting to change
(07:12):
his life or trying to portraythe message, however, at the
time he is feeling right now orwhatever, it's really big in the
hip-hop community.
So just having this as a way toreach a new set of people or
invite a new set of people oreven keep some of the people
(07:34):
from leaving, because now we're,we're teaching, we're, we're
using something different to, to, to touch a different,
different spot in their soul orin their hearts.
Um, how do you feel about allthat?
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Well, I was thinking while you were talking about
that, the church, the body ofChrist not any particular
denomination, but the churchJesus said he would build goes
through different seasons.
I was thinking about theforties and the fifties goes
through different seasons.
I was thinking about the 40sand the 50s.
A lot of the churchesmainstream churches come from
(08:13):
the southern part of the countryand they did a lot of southern
music, a lot of guitar.
There wasn't drums, therewasn't horns, we were just kind
of strumming a guitar and theywould sing that type of stuff.
But the 40s and 50s was big fortent revivals and that's how the
church began to flow.
And then, after the tentrevivals kind of faded out
(08:33):
during the 60s, starting intothe 70s was the charismatic
movement and there was a lot ofchange in the churches.
A lot of celebrities startedjumping in because it was kind
of a popular thing at the time.
But the church itself, the bodyof Christ, goes through
different seasons, differentthings, and I think now we're in
(08:58):
a season where God is openingthe door to reach out to anyone
and everyone, no matter what.
Now, 40 years ago, this wouldhave never been accepted.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Even though it was around.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Not popular, not accepted.
It had been condemned, lookeddown on and because of the
lyrics and because of themessage, it's bad Talking about
suicide and drugs and sex andall of that which is absolutely
opposite of what the Bibleteaches, obviously.
And so I think we as theministry, I think we may have
(09:35):
missed it, we should haveadjusted and been able to reach
out to help.
But again, there are seasons inthe church, just like seasons
in your life, the times it justwasn't the right time.
I believe now this is the righttime, even at my age.
I believe the church has theopportunity now and our church
(09:57):
is small as far as physical, sowe can't offer a venue to bring
in three to five, 700 people.
We can't do that.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yet.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Yet Right.
Yet we can't do that at thispoint.
That could come down the road.
It could be a venue that we canopen and find a building
somewhere and put something on.
I'd love to do that.
It's going to take a lot ofwork.
It's going to take more than metalking about it and you
willing to do it.
We're going to have to get acrew together.
(10:27):
That is as we talked in ourmen's Bible study commitment
people that are locked into it,no matter what, we're together
on this If there's 10 of us.
This is what we're going to doand I believe God will honor
that and bless that and we canget it done.
Now we may not see the resultsof those people that would come
to that venue.
(10:48):
We may not see them in ourchurch, we may not see them
steadfast in our church, but ifwe can reach them for Christ
because the younger generationare facing things that my
generation never had to face.
They have no hope.
Their hope is just gone Becausethere's nothing in our
(11:12):
government that's telling themyou can do that We've got you
and they think that's normalBecause they don't know that
there's no hope.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
They're just living life because that's how they
just think it is Exactly.
They're just living lifebecause that's how they just
think it is Exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
You know, 50 years ago, 60 years ago, it was
unprecedented for someone in thechurch to be divorced.
And then when that happened,you know they're like shunned
kind of.
But today churches are filledwith people that have been
divorced, sometimes over andover, and all kinds of things.
(11:44):
So things change.
Not that that's a good thing,but I think in a sense we're
open to allow people to come inwith all of their baggage and if
it brings this kind of music inand again, my generation is not
going to be as comfortable withit as you, but I'm open to it.
As I said, I'll have to listento it a couple of times to catch
(12:06):
the whole message, because Idon't want to just feel the beat
.
I want to find out exactly whatyou're saying and from that I
can figure out how to help youfrom that point.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yes, so for this, speaking on that, that was going
to be my next question the fewsongs I did send you, I believe
I sent something from KingdomMusic, brian Trejo, and just for
the video and the podcast.
I'm not compensated by them atall.
I'll put their songs in theshow notes just for people to
(12:40):
check them out to their ownwebsites or YouTube channels,
but we're not compensated bythem at all.
We're just speaking on theirmusic.
But I sent you music by onecalled Brian Trejo, kingdom
Music, and a couple of otherones, but I stuck to that
(13:00):
because I really, I really likehis message.
I, I, I try to look for theones that are giving out the
right message, because there area few in there that can get a
little sketchy.
Um, uh, one of the brothers,edwin, had had, uh, brung up a
(13:21):
few to my attention.
That wasn't really rapping agood message, and I'm not going
to speak on that rapper's namebecause we don't want to put
nobody down here or nothing likethat.
So I sent you the ones that Ithought was great, what I would
(13:44):
consider playing at the churchwith, of course, with your
approval, and stuff like that.
How do you feel about the songsthat I did send you?
When you got to listen to them,how would you feel about them
being played at the church?
Speaker 2 (13:57):
the ones that I can recall that I listened to and
it's been a week or so before Ilisten to any of them.
I thought the message was goodand again I'm looking at the
younger generation, let's say 35and under.
That generation will pick it upand they'll catch it quick.
Those that are above 35 to say50, are kind of probably iffy a
(14:22):
little bit.
Those at my age.
You know, I'm in my 70s, so atmy age it's going to be
difficult for us to graspeverything.
I think we'd have to listen toit.
But again, as I said, I want tohear the message.
I want to know exactly whereyou're coming from, because if I
can figure out where you'recoming from, I can figure out a
(14:43):
way to help you Other than justsaying you know, be blessed in
the name of the Lord.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
More than that, as far as at the church, I don't
have a problem with some of them.
You know I'd want to listen tothem again intently, and of
course you know my daughter, Ialways go with her let her look
through them things.
She keeps tabs on that.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
But you know, as many grandkids that I had, I didn't
have no idea they listened torap.
Yes, just just never thought ofit, I guess.
So I think the a great idea youcame up with was, you know,
having a Friday night service,right, because then you know, we
can go ahead and dip our toesin the pool to almost test the
waters and see how people reactto it, and not really, we're not
(15:30):
trying to keep any everythingseparated.
Okay, you guys are going to bejust separated from these guys
but we don't want to throweverybody in the same pool all
together also at the same time,all of a sudden, because it's
going to be a culture shock foreverybody, I would think how do
you?
You know?
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Here's the one thing when you talk about Christian
rap or hip hop and then you putthat word worship in for me,
it's hard for me at this pointuntil I've been in one of those
things.
It's hard for me because youknow my way of worship is, you
know, before the Lord I'm justworshiping and you know, or
(16:09):
singing a song that isaccustomed to me and your hip
hop is, you know, boom, boom,boom, boom.
Yeah, it's like that.
It's a little different.
And so for me to watch, say, 25kids up there and they're all
doing the move, it would bedifferent.
For me to try to get used tothat.
I don't know if I can do that.
Yes, but I might, because Ikind of flow pretty good with
stuff.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Yes, but I don't know , you know I've seen you get
some moves in man, so I don'tthink you're gonna have a
problem there but you know,here's here's the thing.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
I often wonder why?
Why do they when they rap, whydo they do this and this and
this?
Is that just because of thebeat, or is that actually trying
to make an impression on themand emphasize a certain word?
You know, when I'm preaching,sometimes I'll go to say a word
and I'll wait a few seconds andthen say a word and it's
(17:00):
emphasized that word.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Of course I get exactly.
I know exactly what you'respeaking about, and I think my
best way to answer that is alittle bit of both.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
It's swaying to the music and also emphasizing on
words is both of them.
It's how it's affecting you atthe time.
And to touch on the beat part,yes, yes, there is.
Hip-hop does have a little bitof a quicker beat, but there are
songs that are.
(17:30):
I've heard quite a few of themand, as a matter of fact, I'll
send you a few of them this weekthat are more without a beat,
and they have.
They have rapped to apercussion, just like a piano,
only a guitar, only they'rerapping, or doing their poems
like I would do, but just with avery soft setting, and it's
(17:53):
still the.
It is a beautiful mixture ofboth of them.
I can't wait to share that withyou this week.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Yeah, I'm excited about hearing that, because that
would probably be a little moregentler maybe yes to break into
, to get into that.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
But I, you know, I don't see myself it would almost
be like my best way to explain.
That would be like today we hadservice today, um, your
daughter missy.
She started off with a verystrong song that everybody likes
, right, everybody knows thewords, everybody sings to it.
When your grandson is playingthe drums, everybody gets to it,
(18:32):
yeah, vibes to it, and then shetapered off to like a slower
song and calmed everybody downjust before you went to go speak
.
It's almost the same thing butthe hip hop.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
There'll be a strong song and then a nice softer one,
and that's a question I'd liketo ask you.
And again, because what I haveup here, that I get some of the
raps or the hip hop, maybe inthe world maybe not in the
Christian realm, but in theworld my feeling is they're
(19:07):
doing that to hype kids up, tokeep them all jacked up, and so
it's hard for me to distinguishbetween that and getting them to
worship, because when I seethat that's hyping them up, just
like at some wild concert outthere, everybody's all cranked
(19:28):
up, whether it's rock and rollor southern gospel or not gospel
but southern music, and theyget the people all cranked up.
But they're doing it for this,not for that.
And so to have the hip-hoppeople, the rap, to get them to
(19:50):
understand that, get into thatvibe, so to speak, then bring
glory to Him and praise to Him.
I'd have to see how that works.
I can't comprehend that yet.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
I believe it's there there, but I'd have to
experience it of course, yes, um, and I I could see exactly
where you're coming from.
It's definitely there, um, thepeople who do listen to hip-hop.
Like I was telling you before,I like to pick the words apart,
(20:23):
almost like we pick words apartin our Bible when we're doing
Bible study and we're trying tobreak down the verses and stuff
like that.
Rap is huge on that, very huge,because you would be surprised
how much people who listen torap know the lyrics and are
(20:47):
really like, oh, you put thistogether, you talk about this
and this is how he said it orthis is how she said it.
If it's a female rapper, thisthat, whatever, they know these
songs and they're constantlysinging them, and then it
becomes, I mean, they get warpedby it, because now you have
this person with status, right,they're popular, they're pretty
(21:08):
or handsome and they have nicecars and these you know they
have.
However, they look like at thetime and stuff like that.
So they're looking at that andit's almost like they're
worshiping that, right.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
And they're doing what the person is telling them
to do, because it becomes aninfluence.
Yes, the christian rappers arenot speaking on stuff that they
would want the kids to do tohype them up, to make them feel
something.
They are speaking the word ofgod.
They are speaking verses.
(21:40):
They are speaking the messagesthey God.
They are speaking verses.
They are speaking the messages.
They will touch on situationsthey went through like I touch
in my poems and stuff like that,but they put it together with
verses from the Bible and thegood message, and always putting
glory to God first, but usingthe instrument or the vehicle
(22:02):
that is hip-hop, right and andtheir rap, uh style, or how they
deliver their, their, theirlyrics, um, as the the vehicle
to these kids right, or towhoever's listening to, because
a lot of them in kids, I'm I'mnot a kid, I'm 44.
I shouldn't have said that, butstill, you know I mean, but
(22:24):
well, I'm 74, yeah, well, yougot me beat by a little bit
there, but um 30 years, 30 years, 30 good years, you still still
strong, still got moves andeverything.
But yeah, they have it'sdifferent, I get it.
It's different, but whatthey're doing is different
because it's not a selfish thing, it's not about uplifting them,
(22:46):
it's about delivering the wordand exalting god's name when you
did that for pastor'sappreciation for us.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
yes, I didn't sense anything other than your heart
speaking to us, how you portrayus, how you picture us, and so I
can, I can.
I guess I can see where, when,when they do one of them songs,
(23:15):
I call it songs, you call it apoem, a rap.
I can see where the kids canget locked into that.
When the scripture comes out,it relates to them.
I can see at the end of thatwhere they could lift their
hands and bless the Lord.
I can see that, but I reallywant to experience that.
I really do and whatever we do,we do it for the glory of God,
(23:40):
to reach people.
Do we do it for the glory ofGod to reach people?
I don't want to do this underthe guise of let's get all these
young people coming so we canbuild our church so everybody
sees this and we advertise.
Listen, we got hip hop here.
I don't care anything aboutthat.
I'm never concerned aboutoutside promotion.
(24:01):
Some people are all aboutpromotion.
I'm never about promotion.
That's just me personally.
It's okay.
If you do that, that's for you,but not for me.
My goal in this whole thing,with you or whoever else is
involved in this, is to reach ageneration that nobody else
wants to reach.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Because there's a generation that's lost out there
, that nobody wants to reach.
They want them to change, tocome in, but we don't want to
allow them to come in like theyare.
Because probably in the last 25years I've changed a lot of
(24:41):
things in my preaching.
Teaching Never changed the word.
Message is always the same.
It's how it's delivered.
I preach more grace now thanI've ever preached in my life
because I see more grace peopleneed.
People are hurting.
I'm talking about inside.
They're hurting inside.
(25:02):
They've lost hope.
They have no direction.
Our government doesn't doanything to give them direction.
There are some churches outthere that do a lot of things,
that attract a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
And not because we're smaller do I say that, but I
want to reach the heart ofpeople.
As you know, we have a mixedcrowd in our church everything.
In my family we've goteverything except Asian at this
point and you keep saying we'rehopeful.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah, we're hopeful.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
But it doesn't really matter to me what culture you
are, where you you come from.
I just want to know your heartand I want to be able to pour
into you whatever I can.
If hip hop's your thing, that'sgreat.
As long as the message is right, I'm okay with that.
And I'll tell you honestly oncewe really get this thing where
we can control it a little bit,you know, and keep tabs on it,
(26:01):
I'm going to have you break itout on a sunday morning sometime
.
Surprise the whole congregation.
I'm gonna have you do that ohman oh yeah oh man, that's and
we're not gonna advertise it.
Just gonna say hey brother,come on up here, I want you to
share something and I want youto hit it.
I want to see where it goes.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
I'm gonna watch the people okay, I'm excited about
watching like hit it, what Likejust start the music like that,
or what do you envision you want?
Speaker 2 (26:25):
to do your whole thing, whatever rap you got.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
All right yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
We'll do it.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Maybe you can work to Missy or Nathan.
They can put a little beat inthere.
You know, we'll work on that.
We'll the people we will but Iguarantee you that I'd say 99
percent of our people will saythat's great.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
There may be one percent said well, I don't know
yeah but I think I think we'llwin them over I think 99.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
I think they'll be open to it if they hear it the
way you're talking about it.
But just to hear you know,because I've made fun of rap
ever since it's been around yesthere's a boom, boom all that
because that's really all youhear.
Of course I get it my age.
Yes, young people pick up onthe message.
It's quick, but because theycan relate to what they're
(27:12):
saying.
But they're talking about allthe hardships and how bad it is.
But the other thing is theytalk about how bad the hardships
are.
You know the drugs, the suicide, the sex and the life's so
rough and you got to do this.
And then they're looking atthese people and they're driving
these fancy cars.
You know, laid out escalades,they got gold everywhere, money,
(27:33):
so they're not really relating.
I think what they're tellingthem.
If you do all of this, you canbe like this.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
And that's really the wrong message.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Message that is the wrong message.
That is the wrong message.
But yeah, I'm very, veryexcited for everything we have
going on, and I've seen you haveyour tablet with some questions
.
Yeah, you want to go ahead andshoot me some?
And yeah, some, we've alreadycovered but um, I was asked.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
One of the questions was what's the difference
between rap and hip-hop?
Speaker 1 (28:04):
There is no difference.
It's actually the same thing.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Just called different .
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Yes, I think the whole rap and hip-hop thing.
One of the first songs thatcame out rap or hip-hop was back
in the day was called Rapper'sDelight.
I think it came out in like1978.
It's almost, I think, thecredited first rap song, and one
(28:32):
of the chorus, or one of therappers in there started his
verse saying the hip hop ahippity, hippity, hip hop, hip
hop a rocket.
You don't stop.
A rocket to the bang bang,boogie up jumps the boogie to
the rhythm of the boogie be soit had hip hop in there.
I mean, I'm a hip hop head, Itold you.
(28:55):
So that's like history behindit.
So yeah, I do that I think.
I think that hip-hop is more ofthe rugged.
When they talk about hip-hop,it's more the rugged underground
stuff and rappers.
It's just all of it together.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Well, I told you I don't know if you did this or
not but there was a Christianman named Carmen.
He's passed away now fromcancer, but he was probably one
of the best ever to reach youngpeople and older people, his
style.
He was not married and he had agroup of people singers with
him and they did the dance, theydid the rap, they did the whole
(29:33):
thing, but the message was sogreat.
When you go to one of hisconcerts and I did, I mean every
age was there.
They loved this this guy.
He was just amazing.
So I would encourage you tokind of look him up and check
some of his stuff out.
He really, but there was nobodyelse that picked up on that.
That I'm aware of.
You know they tried a littlebit, but he just had, as we
(29:56):
talked today in our Bible studythe gift he had, the gift he
could do that.
It's just a shame that hedidn't pass away.
Let me ask you this when peopleare rapping or doing hip-hop, I
often wonder does this justcome to them as it rolls out of
their mouth, or do they practicethis over and over like we
would practice a new song?
Speaker 1 (30:17):
So there is something called freestyle rap, battling
or freestyle rapping.
There is something calledfreestyle rap, battling or
freestyle rapping.
It is.
You have to be very skilled andrhyming, because that right
there is improvising it.
They put on a beat, you don'thave nothing written down and
usually it could be me and youand you're rhyming a rap off the
(30:43):
top of your head.
You've never recited thisbefore.
You're coming up with it rightthere on the spot and then, when
you're done, I'm going rightafter you and we'll go back and
forth and see who ends upwinning.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
So things like that happen so they do do that, wow.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
But most of the time the stuff that you hear that
sounds really good, or that'srecorded, or this and that time
the stuff that you hear thatsounds really good, or that's
recorded, or this and that themare things that were written,
rehearsed, okay, you know, fixedand changed and stuff like that
.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Okay, yep so what results are you looking for when
you do your thing, so to speak?
Speaker 1 (31:17):
uh, the poems or what .
What's happening here?
All right, so with the, withthe poems, I am somebody.
The way I get inspired with meis I listen to Christian hip hop
, right, and I get more inspiredby the ones that make an
emotional connection to me.
(31:38):
So since that's what I enjoygetting, I want to portray that
out.
I want I, I enjoy beingemotionally connected to a song
somehow, with whatever story.
That is so when I write mypoetry or rap and I don't know
(31:58):
if I should call it at one timewas like I don't want to call it
rap because what I do doesn'treally sit to a beat.
Some of it does and some of itdoesn't.
But then what I also do doesn'treally be considered poetry
because it doesn't really sitthere.
So it's something in the middle, it's whatever I came up with,
whatever God gave me.
That's what it is.
We'll call it poetry if youwant.
(32:19):
I don't know, it's something inthe middle, but I want to touch
someone's emotional spot.
I want somebody to be connectedthere, even if it's it's
probably not everybody.
Not everybody's gonna listen,hear something I wrote and
connect to it, but somebody'sreally gonna get like I've been
(32:40):
through that and, yes, yes, youknow I can relate to that.
And if he was able to getthrough that with that verse or
maybe I should look this verseup I want them to be on a
journey to try to look forwhatever verse or whatever word
that's in there that helped meget through that.
(33:02):
And maybe if I could just getthat one person inside that book
looking one time, maybe that'sin there that helped me get
through that and maybe if Icould just get that one person
inside that book looking onetime very good, maybe that's all
it takes.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Very good and it's worth it at that point yeah,
absolutely well, as I do when Ipreach and teach.
If everybody gets something outof it, but one person really
connects, it's worth it all yes,it really is.
So where do you, where do yousee yourself five years from now
?
Have you thought that far ahead?
Where?
Speaker 1 (33:27):
I, I've, I haven't thought or projected anything,
but I've, I've tried to imaginewhere this could go.
So here up north in cle, thisdoesn't really exist, right?
I mean, there's Christianhip-hop, people listen to it,
but nobody's really uh dippingin, uh adding this to to their
(33:52):
churches or as a form ofministry or worship or whatever
we're going to call it, whateverit is ministry ministry huh, is
that the word?
all right.
So ministry, um, but it'sbigger down south, and so I look
at some of the hip-hop artiststhat are doing it down south,
(34:13):
some of which that they areministers or pastors themselves.
They're just also rappers, andI see how they're moving, uh, as
far as what they're putting ontheir, their youtube channels,
their social medias andeverything, and how they're
helping their community.
And one thing that resonateswith me a lot is that the crowd
(34:38):
that they have and that isattending church and getting to
God, and you see them worshipingand their hands up and they're
carrying their Bibles andthey're all praying on each
other is usually the people thatI've seen while I grew up in
the neighborhoods, and you knowdoing what I did when I wasn't
(35:00):
living a godly life, and I seehow this can affect that crowd
of people.
And when I look at our, ourcrowd, even though we're diverse
, I see that that crowd ofpeople is still somewhat missing
there, and what you have taughtme, pastor, is that everybody
(35:24):
has favor, the same, or I meanfaith, the same measure of faith
, and you know we was justtalking about there's people
that are lost out there, thatyou know that if they was
invited to our church and theycome to our church and even
though I love, everything that'shappening in our church has
kept me there um, they might notfeel like to come a second time
(35:49):
because maybe they didn'tconnect with it so much or
whatever, and this and that, andthat's okay.
You know, sometimes you knowyou might not belong here, you
might belong somewhere else.
But what about if they can'tfind nowhere that they belong
exactly you see what I'm saying.
I want to try to offer somethingor be a part of something that
(36:12):
all of us can try to help eachother, to use this Christian
hip-hop or this type of ministryto reach those people.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
That's good.
I like that.
That's why I keep thinkingabout the Friday night, because
it's not a traditional.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
You know the world looks like Saturday nights are
party night yeah, friday alsoyeah, right, but then sunday
morning is church for mostpeople.
that's how the thinking is.
I thought, well, friday nightwould just be a different night
and, just like today, the biblestudy.
Those were here, were committed.
Some stayed home because ofgame, but we're committed to
(36:53):
learning about the things of Godand our character and whatnot.
And those that would come onFriday night, they would be
hungry for that, they would wantthat and I think once they find
out there is a venue, there'san opportunity.
I think they'll bring more.
You see people here.
They're just bringing peopleeverywhere and people have
(37:15):
baggage, they have all kinds ofstuff, but I think our church is
mature enough that we canunderstand that.
We don't judge that.
We want to help change that,but we want to get you to have a
relationship with Christ andlet Him do the change.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
This is.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
I said this morning, the more of the spirit that you
have, the more changes he wantsto make.
Some people have a lot of junkin their house, spiritual house,
and if you invite him in,you're giving him the okay to
throw out what doesn't need tobe there.
It's not church doctrine, it'snot church of God doctrine, it's
(37:51):
not Pastor Luzon's doctrine,it's not church doctrine, it's
not church of God doctrine, it'snot Pastor Luzon's doctrine.
It's what the Holy Spirit does.
So if it takes this style, I'mall for it.
Yes, I'm ready for it, I reallyam.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Yes, I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
I want to see this thing get going, because without
you, or Edwin, or whoever elseis going to be, I can't do this.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
It's not my call.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
It.
Yes, it's not my call, it'syour call.
Well, I want you to know thatwithout you I can't do this,
because I never thought I wouldbe standing in front of there
reciting poetry.
So you have helped me mature alot with God and, you know, find
my way with this and find myway with this, and I want to
thank you for that, first andforemost, and also that I
(38:37):
consider you a mentor, not onlya brother of mine, but a mentor.
And, yes, if it wasn't for you,I wouldn't have been able to
find if this is a gift or acalling or whatever it is, but
we're going with it all the wayto see where.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
God takes us.
It is a gift, and I believe thecalling is for such a time as
this.
I believe the coming of theLord is very imminent, very
close, and to reach the peoplethat we need to reach, whatever
it is.
And I can tell you this if wedo a Friday night, I won't be
coming in a suit, I'll be comingjust dressed like everybody
else, of course, but my goalwould be, when everything is
(39:18):
done, said and done.
You, edwin, a few other people,I want to train you how to pray
with people and the whole goalof getting people into the
church, however it is music orwhatever preaching it's, to get
them to an altar so we can prayfor them yes, amen because
there's no sense in get givingthem this to connect, to preach
(39:44):
and connect if we don't praywith them of course
Speaker 1 (39:47):
just and all glory going to God.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
Yeah, exactly, Exactly Well, I appreciate this
interview.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Pastor and for more episodes.
If you guys are enjoying thistype of content or whatever,
subscribe, hit all the buttonsthat YouTube have, because they
have like a million of them, soyou go ahead and tap that.
Or, if you're on podcast, checkout the show notes.
I have a few songs down there.
Or if you're on podcast, checkout the show notes I have a few
songs down there and you'll findeverything you need to.
As far as the social mediaplatforms that we'll be on and
(40:19):
we'll catch you on the next one.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Praise the Lord.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Praise the Lord.
This is Psalm Escipher.
I'm here with Pastor Luzon, 47years pastoring at the church,
and we're going to be talkingabout Christian hip-hop.
Pastor, this is going to be atough question.
How do you feel about whatother churches might think of us
making a push for Christianhip-hop at our church?
(00:25):
I mean, I know you don't careabout other churches or what
they're doing and stuff likethat, and they shouldn't care
about what we're doing.
But there are people that mightcome visit our church, that
might not, I don't know, likewhat we're doing, and then the
word will get around once westart building a crowd or people
(00:47):
coming in and stuff like that.
And how do you feel about that?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I'll tell you what Jesus said.
His disciples one day wereconcerned about other people
that weren't in their flock, soto speak, preaching the word and
praying for people, and theywanted Jesus to stop.
And he said if they're notagainst us, they're for us.
So if other people come in andit would be other ministers that
(01:13):
know me, they would just knowhow I am anyway.
But other people come in, ifthat bothers them, then their
heart isn't right, and if it'snot their cup of tea, so to
speak, then they need to gowhere it works for them.
But if it works for us, we'regoing to do.
Whatever God opens up for us todo.
(01:35):
We're going to do.
I never preach a message, Inever do anything just because
other people are doing it.
We always do what God wants usto do in our church.
I don't know that we've doneanything that has ever offended
anybody, because everythingwe've ever done here has always
(01:57):
been a blessing to people.
But if that's not their cup oftea, maybe their eyes haven't
been opened yet, because minewasn't.
Yes, until you actually did it,and I would have never.
I would have never thought in amillion years that I would have
been open to hip hop Because itmade no sense to me from what
(02:19):
I've heard.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
But a week or so ago, when I asked everybody how many
in here listen to hip-hop, theyraised their hand.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
I was floored I couldn't, you know what.
I didn't look back.
How many people did raise theirhand I don't know.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
There's probably 20, some people really oh yeah,
there was you know what.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
I was a little intimidated by looking back.
I just stayed looking at you.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
I was like man, both sides of the aisle, you know
what?
They weren't intimidated orafraid to do it, they just stuck
, stuck their hand up.
I was just shocked.
I really was.
I didn't count, but I seen themboth sides.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
That's great, I was pretty excited about that.
That's great which?
Speaker 2 (02:50):
means that there are people that listen to that type
of music, but the message, it'sall about the message.
You know.
Whether it's a country westernsong, I agree, you know.
But it has the right message.
If it's hip-hop, if it's rock,when they talk about Christian
(03:12):
rock, I always had a problemwith that because I'm from old
school, I know what rock androll is, but my rock and roll is
different than the rock androll today.
I'm like Beach Boys rock androll different than the rock and
roll today.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
You know, I'm like beach boys rock, yes, yes, kind
of stuff.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
But you know I was never black sabbath or you know,
was it pink floyd and yes andkiss.
I was never into any of thatstuff.
So when I hear christian rockthat's what I relate to I think
like that, how in the worldcould they call it christian
rock and actually minister?
But these kids, this youngergeneration, they go to a
(03:46):
different beat.
It's totally different, you'reright and if we're going to win
them, we have to adjust oursails.
We're on the same ocean, ofcourse.
We just adjust our sailsbecause if you try to run your
boat against the wind, it'llpush you back.
Yes, you adjust your sails andthe wind will take you where you
(04:07):
need to go.
So that's how I would look atit.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
One thing I learned from you is that you know the
enemy will use anything to tryto bring you down right.
But I also have to look at thecup half empty, cup half full.
The other side of the coin,right, we can use anything to
try to bring or deliver themessage.
(04:31):
So God can you know we'll plantthe seed and he waters it right
.
So, rap being what everybodyknows, rap to be right, very
vulgar, everybody knows rap tobe right, very, very vulgar, the
wrong messages, talking aboutdrugs and money, and you know
everything else in between.
(04:52):
I don't need to point it outbecause I'm sure everybody knows
.
But then you have theseChristian rappers that are
really, like, very talented.
I've been listening to hip hopfor a long, long time, the
majority part of my life, and Iwas what they call a hip-hop
head.
That you know.
I'm looking for the people whoare putting the words together
(05:13):
really nice and going to thebeat and different types of
styles and stuff.
So I can tell a very goodrapper from an okay one or a bad
one I can do that right from anokay one or a bad one.
I can do that right.
Some of these Christian rappersthat aren't being compensated
and if they are very littlecompared to somebody who's
cussing and is mainstream.
(05:34):
If they was just to add cussingto their raps, they would be
millionaires.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
You know what I mean.
But they're using it for godand they make it very known in
their music.
That is not about the money,it's about the message.
You know right, and it is aform, a different form of, of
worship music.
But if it could happen with rap, I think and this is just me
saying I think it could happenwith rock and roll.
It could happen with rap.
(06:04):
I think, and this is just mesaying I think it could happen
with rock and roll.
It could happen with whateverbecause you know, rap being what
it was, and then you have andChristian hip hop is having a
huge upscale.
Now it's starting to go catch alot of people.
There's a lot of actors orsports people like athletes and
(06:29):
and all types of people that areconverting into christianity.
And just the other day, at the,at the moment of filming this
video or this podcast, however,you're listening uh, there is a
a uh major hip-hop artist.
His name is kendrick lamar, andhe was mentioning about how he,
how he needs to change his life, possibly pointing towards
(06:52):
christianity, because he spokeof two very popular christian,
uh, hip-hop artists that helooks up to.
Now this guy, kendrick lamar, isone of the the juggernauts in
mainstream hip-hop right now, atthis point.
So to hear him say that and andspeak about wanting to change
(07:12):
his life or trying to portraythe message, however, at the
time he is feeling right now orwhatever, it's really big in the
hip-hop community.
So just having this as a way toreach a new set of people or
invite a new set of people oreven keep some of the people
(07:34):
from leaving, because now we're,we're teaching, we're, we're
using something different to, to, to touch a different,
different spot in their soul orin their hearts.
Um, how do you feel about allthat?
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Well, I was thinking while you were talking about
that, the church, the body ofChrist not any particular
denomination, but the churchJesus said he would build goes
through different seasons.
I was thinking about theforties and the fifties goes
through different seasons.
I was thinking about the 40sand the 50s.
A lot of the churchesmainstream churches come from
(08:13):
the southern part of the countryand they did a lot of southern
music, a lot of guitar.
There wasn't drums, therewasn't horns, we were just kind
of strumming a guitar and theywould sing that type of stuff.
But the 40s and 50s was big fortent revivals and that's how the
church began to flow.
And then, after the tentrevivals kind of faded out
(08:33):
during the 60s, starting intothe 70s was the charismatic
movement and there was a lot ofchange in the churches.
A lot of celebrities startedjumping in because it was kind
of a popular thing at the time.
But the church itself, the bodyof Christ, goes through
different seasons, differentthings, and I think now we're in
(08:58):
a season where God is openingthe door to reach out to anyone
and everyone, no matter what.
Now, 40 years ago, this wouldhave never been accepted.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Even though it was around.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Not popular, not accepted.
It had been condemned, lookeddown on and because of the
lyrics and because of themessage, it's bad Talking about
suicide and drugs and sex andall of that which is absolutely
opposite of what the Bibleteaches, obviously.
And so I think we as theministry, I think we may have
(09:35):
missed it, we should haveadjusted and been able to reach
out to help.
But again, there are seasons inthe church, just like seasons
in your life, the times it justwasn't the right time.
I believe now this is the righttime, even at my age.
I believe the church has theopportunity now and our church
(09:57):
is small as far as physical, sowe can't offer a venue to bring
in three to five, 700 people.
We can't do that.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yet.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Yet Right.
Yet we can't do that at thispoint.
That could come down the road.
It could be a venue that we canopen and find a building
somewhere and put something on.
I'd love to do that.
It's going to take a lot ofwork.
It's going to take more than metalking about it and you
willing to do it.
We're going to have to get acrew together.
(10:27):
That is as we talked in ourmen's Bible study commitment
people that are locked into it,no matter what, we're together
on this If there's 10 of us.
This is what we're going to doand I believe God will honor
that and bless that and we canget it done.
Now we may not see the resultsof those people that would come
to that venue.
(10:48):
We may not see them in ourchurch, we may not see them
steadfast in our church, but ifwe can reach them for Christ
because the younger generationare facing things that my
generation never had to face.
They have no hope.
Their hope is just gone Becausethere's nothing in our
(11:12):
government that's telling themyou can do that We've got you
and they think that's normalBecause they don't know that
there's no hope.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
They're just living life because that's how they
just think it is Exactly.
They're just living lifebecause that's how they just
think it is Exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
You know, 50 years ago, 60 years ago, it was
unprecedented for someone in thechurch to be divorced.
And then when that happened,you know they're like shunned
kind of.
But today churches are filledwith people that have been
divorced, sometimes over andover, and all kinds of things.
(11:44):
So things change.
Not that that's a good thing,but I think in a sense we're
open to allow people to come inwith all of their baggage and if
it brings this kind of music inand again, my generation is not
going to be as comfortable withit as you, but I'm open to it.
As I said, I'll have to listento it a couple of times to catch
(12:06):
the whole message, because Idon't want to just feel the beat
.
I want to find out exactly whatyou're saying and from that I
can figure out how to help youfrom that point.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yes, so for this, speaking on that, that was going
to be my next question the fewsongs I did send you, I believe
I sent something from KingdomMusic, brian Trejo, and just for
the video and the podcast.
I'm not compensated by them atall.
I'll put their songs in theshow notes just for people to
(12:40):
check them out to their ownwebsites or YouTube channels,
but we're not compensated bythem at all.
We're just speaking on theirmusic.
But I sent you music by onecalled Brian Trejo, kingdom
Music, and a couple of otherones, but I stuck to that
(13:00):
because I really, I really likehis message.
I, I, I try to look for theones that are giving out the
right message, because there area few in there that can get a
little sketchy.
Um, uh, one of the brothers,edwin, had had, uh, brung up a
(13:21):
few to my attention.
That wasn't really rapping agood message, and I'm not going
to speak on that rapper's namebecause we don't want to put
nobody down here or nothing likethat.
So I sent you the ones that Ithought was great, what I would
(13:44):
consider playing at the churchwith, of course, with your
approval, and stuff like that.
How do you feel about the songsthat I did send you?
When you got to listen to them,how would you feel about them
being played at the church?
Speaker 2 (13:57):
the ones that I can recall that I listened to and
it's been a week or so before Ilisten to any of them.
I thought the message was goodand again I'm looking at the
younger generation, let's say 35and under.
That generation will pick it upand they'll catch it quick.
Those that are above 35 to say50, are kind of probably iffy a
(14:22):
little bit.
Those at my age.
You know, I'm in my 70s, so atmy age it's going to be
difficult for us to graspeverything.
I think we'd have to listen toit.
But again, as I said, I want tohear the message.
I want to know exactly whereyou're coming from, because if I
can figure out where you'recoming from, I can figure out a
(14:43):
way to help you Other than justsaying you know, be blessed in
the name of the Lord.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
More than that, as far as at the church, I don't
have a problem with some of them.
You know I'd want to listen tothem again intently, and of
course you know my daughter, Ialways go with her let her look
through them things.
She keeps tabs on that.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
But you know, as many grandkids that I had, I didn't
have no idea they listened torap.
Yes, just just never thought ofit, I guess.
So I think the a great idea youcame up with was, you know,
having a Friday night service,right, because then you know, we
can go ahead and dip our toesin the pool to almost test the
waters and see how people reactto it, and not really, we're not
(15:30):
trying to keep any everythingseparated.
Okay, you guys are going to bejust separated from these guys
but we don't want to throweverybody in the same pool all
together also at the same time,all of a sudden, because it's
going to be a culture shock foreverybody, I would think how do
you?
You know?
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Here's the one thing when you talk about Christian
rap or hip hop and then you putthat word worship in for me,
it's hard for me at this pointuntil I've been in one of those
things.
It's hard for me because youknow my way of worship is, you
know, before the Lord I'm justworshiping and you know, or
(16:09):
singing a song that isaccustomed to me and your hip
hop is, you know, boom, boom,boom, boom.
Yeah, it's like that.
It's a little different.
And so for me to watch, say, 25kids up there and they're all
doing the move, it would bedifferent.
For me to try to get used tothat.
I don't know if I can do that.
Yes, but I might, because Ikind of flow pretty good with
stuff.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Yes, but I don't know , you know I've seen you get
some moves in man, so I don'tthink you're gonna have a
problem there but you know,here's here's the thing.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
I often wonder why?
Why do they when they rap, whydo they do this and this and
this?
Is that just because of thebeat, or is that actually trying
to make an impression on themand emphasize a certain word?
You know, when I'm preaching,sometimes I'll go to say a word
and I'll wait a few seconds andthen say a word and it's
(17:00):
emphasized that word.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Of course I get exactly.
I know exactly what you'respeaking about, and I think my
best way to answer that is alittle bit of both.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
It's swaying to the music and also emphasizing on
words is both of them.
It's how it's affecting you atthe time.
And to touch on the beat part,yes, yes, there is.
Hip-hop does have a little bitof a quicker beat, but there are
songs that are.
(17:30):
I've heard quite a few of themand, as a matter of fact, I'll
send you a few of them this weekthat are more without a beat,
and they have.
They have rapped to apercussion, just like a piano,
only a guitar, only they'rerapping, or doing their poems
like I would do, but just with avery soft setting, and it's
(17:53):
still the.
It is a beautiful mixture ofboth of them.
I can't wait to share that withyou this week.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Yeah, I'm excited about hearing that, because that
would probably be a little moregentler maybe yes to break into
, to get into that.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
But I, you know, I don't see myself it would almost
be like my best way to explain.
That would be like today we hadservice today, um, your
daughter missy.
She started off with a verystrong song that everybody likes
, right, everybody knows thewords, everybody sings to it.
When your grandson is playingthe drums, everybody gets to it,
(18:32):
yeah, vibes to it, and then shetapered off to like a slower
song and calmed everybody downjust before you went to go speak
.
It's almost the same thing butthe hip hop.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
There'll be a strong song and then a nice softer one,
and that's a question I'd liketo ask you.
And again, because what I haveup here, that I get some of the
raps or the hip hop, maybe inthe world maybe not in the
Christian realm, but in theworld my feeling is they're
(19:07):
doing that to hype kids up, tokeep them all jacked up, and so
it's hard for me to distinguishbetween that and getting them to
worship, because when I seethat that's hyping them up, just
like at some wild concert outthere, everybody's all cranked
(19:28):
up, whether it's rock and rollor southern gospel or not gospel
but southern music, and theyget the people all cranked up.
But they're doing it for this,not for that.
And so to have the hip-hoppeople, the rap, to get them to
(19:50):
understand that, get into thatvibe, so to speak, then bring
glory to Him and praise to Him.
I'd have to see how that works.
I can't comprehend that yet.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
I believe it's there there, but I'd have to
experience it of course, yes, um, and I I could see exactly
where you're coming from.
It's definitely there, um, thepeople who do listen to hip-hop.
Like I was telling you before,I like to pick the words apart,
(20:23):
almost like we pick words apartin our Bible when we're doing
Bible study and we're trying tobreak down the verses and stuff
like that.
Rap is huge on that, very huge,because you would be surprised
how much people who listen torap know the lyrics and are
(20:47):
really like, oh, you put thistogether, you talk about this
and this is how he said it orthis is how she said it.
If it's a female rapper, thisthat, whatever, they know these
songs and they're constantlysinging them, and then it
becomes, I mean, they get warpedby it, because now you have
this person with status, right,they're popular, they're pretty
(21:08):
or handsome and they have nicecars and these you know they
have.
However, they look like at thetime and stuff like that.
So they're looking at that andit's almost like they're
worshiping that, right.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
And they're doing what the person is telling them
to do, because it becomes aninfluence.
Yes, the christian rappers arenot speaking on stuff that they
would want the kids to do tohype them up, to make them feel
something.
They are speaking the word ofgod.
They are speaking verses.
(21:40):
They are speaking the messagesthey God.
They are speaking verses.
They are speaking the messages.
They will touch on situationsthey went through like I touch
in my poems and stuff like that,but they put it together with
verses from the Bible and thegood message, and always putting
glory to God first, but usingthe instrument or the vehicle
(22:02):
that is hip-hop, right and andtheir rap, uh style, or how they
deliver their, their, theirlyrics, um, as the the vehicle
to these kids right, or towhoever's listening to, because
a lot of them in kids, I'm I'mnot a kid, I'm 44.
I shouldn't have said that, butstill, you know I mean, but
(22:24):
well, I'm 74, yeah, well, yougot me beat by a little bit
there, but um 30 years, 30 years, 30 good years, you still still
strong, still got moves andeverything.
But yeah, they have it'sdifferent, I get it.
It's different, but whatthey're doing is different
because it's not a selfish thing, it's not about uplifting them,
(22:46):
it's about delivering the wordand exalting god's name when you
did that for pastor'sappreciation for us.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
yes, I didn't sense anything other than your heart
speaking to us, how you portrayus, how you picture us, and so I
can, I can.
I guess I can see where, when,when they do one of them songs,
(23:15):
I call it songs, you call it apoem, a rap.
I can see where the kids canget locked into that.
When the scripture comes out,it relates to them.
I can see at the end of thatwhere they could lift their
hands and bless the Lord.
I can see that, but I reallywant to experience that.
I really do and whatever we do,we do it for the glory of God,
(23:40):
to reach people.
Do we do it for the glory ofGod to reach people?
I don't want to do this underthe guise of let's get all these
young people coming so we canbuild our church so everybody
sees this and we advertise.
Listen, we got hip hop here.
I don't care anything aboutthat.
I'm never concerned aboutoutside promotion.
(24:01):
Some people are all aboutpromotion.
I'm never about promotion.
That's just me personally.
It's okay.
If you do that, that's for you,but not for me.
My goal in this whole thing,with you or whoever else is
involved in this, is to reach ageneration that nobody else
wants to reach.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Because there's a generation that's lost out there
, that nobody wants to reach.
They want them to change, tocome in, but we don't want to
allow them to come in like theyare.
Because probably in the last 25years I've changed a lot of
(24:41):
things in my preaching.
Teaching Never changed the word.
Message is always the same.
It's how it's delivered.
I preach more grace now thanI've ever preached in my life
because I see more grace peopleneed.
People are hurting.
I'm talking about inside.
They're hurting inside.
(25:02):
They've lost hope.
They have no direction.
Our government doesn't doanything to give them direction.
There are some churches outthere that do a lot of things,
that attract a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
And not because we're smaller do I say that, but I
want to reach the heart ofpeople.
As you know, we have a mixedcrowd in our church everything.
In my family we've goteverything except Asian at this
point and you keep saying we'rehopeful.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah, we're hopeful.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
But it doesn't really matter to me what culture you
are, where you you come from.
I just want to know your heartand I want to be able to pour
into you whatever I can.
If hip hop's your thing, that'sgreat.
As long as the message is right, I'm okay with that.
And I'll tell you honestly oncewe really get this thing where
we can control it a little bit,you know, and keep tabs on it,
(26:01):
I'm going to have you break itout on a sunday morning sometime
.
Surprise the whole congregation.
I'm gonna have you do that ohman oh yeah oh man, that's and
we're not gonna advertise it.
Just gonna say hey brother,come on up here, I want you to
share something and I want youto hit it.
I want to see where it goes.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
I'm gonna watch the people okay, I'm excited about
watching like hit it, what Likejust start the music like that,
or what do you envision you want?
Speaker 2 (26:25):
to do your whole thing, whatever rap you got.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
All right yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
We'll do it.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Maybe you can work to Missy or Nathan.
They can put a little beat inthere.
You know, we'll work on that.
We'll the people we will but Iguarantee you that I'd say 99
percent of our people will saythat's great.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
There may be one percent said well, I don't know
yeah but I think I think we'llwin them over I think 99.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
I think they'll be open to it if they hear it the
way you're talking about it.
But just to hear you know,because I've made fun of rap
ever since it's been around yesthere's a boom, boom all that
because that's really all youhear.
Of course I get it my age.
Yes, young people pick up onthe message.
It's quick, but because theycan relate to what they're
(27:12):
saying.
But they're talking about allthe hardships and how bad it is.
But the other thing is theytalk about how bad the hardships
are.
You know the drugs, the suicide, the sex and the life's so
rough and you got to do this.
And then they're looking atthese people and they're driving
these fancy cars.
You know, laid out escalades,they got gold everywhere, money,
(27:33):
so they're not really relating.
I think what they're tellingthem.
If you do all of this, you canbe like this.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
And that's really the wrong message.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Message that is the wrong message.
That is the wrong message.
But yeah, I'm very, veryexcited for everything we have
going on, and I've seen you haveyour tablet with some questions
.
Yeah, you want to go ahead andshoot me some?
And yeah, some, we've alreadycovered but um, I was asked.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
One of the questions was what's the difference
between rap and hip-hop?
Speaker 1 (28:04):
There is no difference.
It's actually the same thing.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Just called different .
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Yes, I think the whole rap and hip-hop thing.
One of the first songs thatcame out rap or hip-hop was back
in the day was called Rapper'sDelight.
I think it came out in like1978.
It's almost, I think, thecredited first rap song, and one
(28:32):
of the chorus, or one of therappers in there started his
verse saying the hip hop ahippity, hippity, hip hop, hip
hop a rocket.
You don't stop.
A rocket to the bang bang,boogie up jumps the boogie to
the rhythm of the boogie be soit had hip hop in there.
I mean, I'm a hip hop head, Itold you.
(28:55):
So that's like history behindit.
So yeah, I do that I think.
I think that hip-hop is more ofthe rugged.
When they talk about hip-hop,it's more the rugged underground
stuff and rappers.
It's just all of it together.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Well, I told you I don't know if you did this or
not but there was a Christianman named Carmen.
He's passed away now fromcancer, but he was probably one
of the best ever to reach youngpeople and older people, his
style.
He was not married and he had agroup of people singers with
him and they did the dance, theydid the rap, they did the whole
(29:33):
thing, but the message was sogreat.
When you go to one of hisconcerts and I did, I mean every
age was there.
They loved this this guy.
He was just amazing.
So I would encourage you tokind of look him up and check
some of his stuff out.
He really, but there was nobodyelse that picked up on that.
That I'm aware of.
You know they tried a littlebit, but he just had, as we
(29:56):
talked today in our Bible studythe gift he had, the gift he
could do that.
It's just a shame that hedidn't pass away.
Let me ask you this when peopleare rapping or doing hip-hop, I
often wonder does this justcome to them as it rolls out of
their mouth, or do they practicethis over and over like we
would practice a new song?
Speaker 1 (30:17):
So there is something called freestyle rap, battling
or freestyle rapping.
There is something calledfreestyle rap, battling or
freestyle rapping.
It is.
You have to be very skilled andrhyming, because that right
there is improvising it.
They put on a beat, you don'thave nothing written down and
usually it could be me and youand you're rhyming a rap off the
(30:43):
top of your head.
You've never recited thisbefore.
You're coming up with it rightthere on the spot and then, when
you're done, I'm going rightafter you and we'll go back and
forth and see who ends upwinning.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
So things like that happen so they do do that, wow.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
But most of the time the stuff that you hear that
sounds really good, or that'srecorded, or this and that time
the stuff that you hear thatsounds really good, or that's
recorded, or this and that themare things that were written,
rehearsed, okay, you know, fixedand changed and stuff like that
.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Okay, yep so what results are you looking for when
you do your thing, so to speak?
Speaker 1 (31:17):
uh, the poems or what .
What's happening here?
All right, so with the, withthe poems, I am somebody.
The way I get inspired with meis I listen to Christian hip hop
, right, and I get more inspiredby the ones that make an
emotional connection to me.
(31:38):
So since that's what I enjoygetting, I want to portray that
out.
I want I, I enjoy beingemotionally connected to a song
somehow, with whatever story.
That is so when I write mypoetry or rap and I don't know
(31:58):
if I should call it at one timewas like I don't want to call it
rap because what I do doesn'treally sit to a beat.
Some of it does and some of itdoesn't.
But then what I also do doesn'treally be considered poetry
because it doesn't really sitthere.
So it's something in the middle, it's whatever I came up with,
whatever God gave me.
That's what it is.
We'll call it poetry if youwant.
(32:19):
I don't know, it's something inthe middle, but I want to touch
someone's emotional spot.
I want somebody to be connectedthere, even if it's it's
probably not everybody.
Not everybody's gonna listen,hear something I wrote and
connect to it, but somebody'sreally gonna get like I've been
(32:40):
through that and, yes, yes, youknow I can relate to that.
And if he was able to getthrough that with that verse or
maybe I should look this verseup I want them to be on a
journey to try to look forwhatever verse or whatever word
that's in there that helped meget through that.
(33:02):
And maybe if I could just getthat one person inside that book
looking one time, maybe that'sin there that helped me get
through that and maybe if Icould just get that one person
inside that book looking onetime very good, maybe that's all
it takes.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Very good and it's worth it at that point yeah,
absolutely well, as I do when Ipreach and teach.
If everybody gets something outof it, but one person really
connects, it's worth it all yes,it really is.
So where do you, where do yousee yourself five years from now
?
Have you thought that far ahead?
Where?
Speaker 1 (33:27):
I, I've, I haven't thought or projected anything,
but I've, I've tried to imaginewhere this could go.
So here up north in cle, thisdoesn't really exist, right?
I mean, there's Christianhip-hop, people listen to it,
but nobody's really uh dippingin, uh adding this to to their
(33:52):
churches or as a form ofministry or worship or whatever
we're going to call it, whateverit is ministry ministry huh, is
that the word?
all right.
So ministry, um, but it'sbigger down south, and so I look
at some of the hip-hop artiststhat are doing it down south,
(34:13):
some of which that they areministers or pastors themselves.
They're just also rappers, andI see how they're moving, uh, as
far as what they're putting ontheir, their youtube channels,
their social medias andeverything, and how they're
helping their community.
And one thing that resonateswith me a lot is that the crowd
(34:38):
that they have and that isattending church and getting to
God, and you see them worshipingand their hands up and they're
carrying their Bibles andthey're all praying on each
other is usually the people thatI've seen while I grew up in
the neighborhoods, and you knowdoing what I did when I wasn't
(35:00):
living a godly life, and I seehow this can affect that crowd
of people.
And when I look at our, ourcrowd, even though we're diverse
, I see that that crowd ofpeople is still somewhat missing
there, and what you have taughtme, pastor, is that everybody
(35:24):
has favor, the same, or I meanfaith, the same measure of faith
, and you know we was justtalking about there's people
that are lost out there, thatyou know that if they was
invited to our church and theycome to our church and even
though I love, everything that'shappening in our church has
kept me there um, they might notfeel like to come a second time
(35:49):
because maybe they didn'tconnect with it so much or
whatever, and this and that, andthat's okay.
You know, sometimes you knowyou might not belong here, you
might belong somewhere else.
But what about if they can'tfind nowhere that they belong
exactly you see what I'm saying.
I want to try to offer somethingor be a part of something that
(36:12):
all of us can try to help eachother, to use this Christian
hip-hop or this type of ministryto reach those people.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
That's good.
I like that.
That's why I keep thinkingabout the Friday night, because
it's not a traditional.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
You know the world looks like Saturday nights are
party night yeah, friday alsoyeah, right, but then sunday
morning is church for mostpeople.
that's how the thinking is.
I thought, well, friday nightwould just be a different night
and, just like today, the biblestudy.
Those were here, were committed.
Some stayed home because ofgame, but we're committed to
(36:53):
learning about the things of Godand our character and whatnot.
And those that would come onFriday night, they would be
hungry for that, they would wantthat and I think once they find
out there is a venue, there'san opportunity.
I think they'll bring more.
You see people here.
They're just bringing peopleeverywhere and people have
(37:15):
baggage, they have all kinds ofstuff, but I think our church is
mature enough that we canunderstand that.
We don't judge that.
We want to help change that,but we want to get you to have a
relationship with Christ andlet Him do the change.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
This is.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
I said this morning, the more of the spirit that you
have, the more changes he wantsto make.
Some people have a lot of junkin their house, spiritual house,
and if you invite him in,you're giving him the okay to
throw out what doesn't need tobe there.
It's not church doctrine, it'snot church of God doctrine, it's
(37:51):
not Pastor Luzon's doctrine,it's not church doctrine, it's
not church of God doctrine, it'snot Pastor Luzon's doctrine.
It's what the Holy Spirit does.
So if it takes this style, I'mall for it.
Yes, I'm ready for it, I reallyam.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Yes, I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
I want to see this thing get going, because without
you, or Edwin, or whoever elseis going to be, I can't do this.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
It's not my call.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
It.
Yes, it's not my call, it'syour call.
Well, I want you to know thatwithout you I can't do this,
because I never thought I wouldbe standing in front of there
reciting poetry.
So you have helped me mature alot with God and, you know, find
my way with this and find myway with this, and I want to
thank you for that, first andforemost, and also that I
(38:37):
consider you a mentor, not onlya brother of mine, but a mentor.
And, yes, if it wasn't for you,I wouldn't have been able to
find if this is a gift or acalling or whatever it is, but
we're going with it all the wayto see where.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
God takes us.
It is a gift, and I believe thecalling is for such a time as
this.
I believe the coming of theLord is very imminent, very
close, and to reach the peoplethat we need to reach, whatever
it is.
And I can tell you this if wedo a Friday night, I won't be
coming in a suit, I'll be comingjust dressed like everybody
else, of course, but my goalwould be, when everything is
(39:18):
done, said and done.
You, edwin, a few other people,I want to train you how to pray
with people and the whole goalof getting people into the
church, however it is music orwhatever preaching it's, to get
them to an altar so we can prayfor them yes, amen because
there's no sense in get givingthem this to connect, to preach
(39:44):
and connect if we don't praywith them of course
Speaker 1 (39:47):
just and all glory going to God.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
Yeah, exactly, Exactly Well, I appreciate this
interview.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Pastor and for more episodes.
If you guys are enjoying thistype of content or whatever,
subscribe, hit all the buttonsthat YouTube have, because they
have like a million of them, soyou go ahead and tap that.
Or, if you're on podcast, checkout the show notes.
I have a few songs down there.
Or if you're on podcast, checkout the show notes I have a few
songs down there and you'll findeverything you need to.
As far as the social mediaplatforms that we'll be on and
(40:19):
we'll catch you on the next one.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Praise the Lord.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Praise the Lord.
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