November 17, 2024 • 28 mins
"Women were not allowed to be Fast Jet Pilots" - Mandy Hickson a true trailblazer. RAF Top Gun Pilot interviewed by racing driver Daniella Sutton. #The EFF Word
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (00:07):
Hi and welcome to the F Word.
I'm your racing driver and host, daniela Sutton, and I'm
exploring the world of extremelyfast females.
This episode I'm delighted tointroduce Mandy Hickson, who is
an ex-RF pilot fast jet pilot.
So, mandy, can you tell us abit about yourself?
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Certainly so.
Hi, Daniela.
Firstly, I love the title ofyour podcast, which is great.
I mean, who would have thoughtit?
The F word actually with aclever spin on it, so to speak,
which is great.
So a little bit of mybackground.
I was in the Royal Air Force.
I served for 17 was in theroyal air force.
I served for 17 years as a inthe full-time reserve and then
eight years as a reservist flewthe tornado gr4, which think top
(00:50):
gun, it's a fast jet, sort of alittle bit like the f-15
equivalent, um and yeah, and Isort of saw active service over
flying over iraq as well duringthe gulf war conflict okay, so
you mentioned iraq.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
So, um, my dad was actually um on operation telic
in 2003 in iraq.
Um he served, which is quiteclose to my heart.
He served in the logisticscorps and um obviously around
that time.
So can you tell us a bit about,like your experience being on
the front line in warfare?
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, it's different foreverybody and, I think,
depending on where you're basedand what you're doing.
So I was over there from 99 to2003.
Just when Gulf War II started,we had just come back.
So we missed Gulf War III,sorry, gulf War Three.
(01:45):
We missed Gulf War Two, whichwas Operation TELIC.
So when your dad was out there,I'd have just come back,
unfortunately.
So we actually missed in thatone.
But what we were doing wasdefending the no-fly zone over
southern Iraq.
So we were based in Kuwait andwe would fly on a daily basis,
either as a show of force or wewere sometimes targeting
missions, perhaps if to suppresstheir build-up of their enemy
(02:07):
air defenses.
Basically, um, and yeah, I meanit was.
It was a very interesting timeperiod.
I mean, I was shot at bysurface to air missile on one
occasion which, uh, locked ontothe heat of my engines.
It was sent up in a heatseeking mode.
Fortunately, otherwise I won'tbe here to tell this the tale I
managed to evade it.
Um, and, yeah, we were.
We saw some pretty dangerousmissions that we were involved
(02:31):
in when we were due to head up,but much further north, perhaps
just south of baghdad, where wewere due to target, um, a fiber
optics building, because they'reabout to basically put all of
our intelligence under theground by then developing their
fiber optics telecommunicationssystems.
So, yeah, we had a whole rangeof different targets.
Uh, and that was my role outthere as well that and
(02:52):
reconnaissance as well um so howlong did it?
Speaker 2 (02:55):
obviously, because that sounds like quite a lot
it's obviously must have tookquite a long time to train for
that.
Um, so were you during thatbasic training, were you trained
specific for, specifically forthat, and how did it work and
everything?
Speaker 1 (03:10):
yeah, so I can talk you a bit through the training.
So, um, for anyone that'sinterested in doing this, I
started off flying when I was 13, but at that stage of life
women weren't allowed to bepilots in the air force.
So I'd chosen a career thatdidn't exist, but I chipped away
at it.
I took every opportunity thatwas available to myself at
school, every leadershipposition from you know prefix up
(03:32):
to head girl.
I was a real joiner.
I joined all the differentclubs outside.
So I was in the Air Cadets, Iwas in the guides which led me
to become the Rangers.
I did my Duke of Edinburghaward scheme.
So I did all of those sorts ofthings because I felt it would
put me in a good position ifthey did change the rules.
And I gained a flyingscholarship From that.
(03:52):
I got my private pilot'slicense.
So I'm now 17 and I can fly anaeroplane before I can actually
drive a car.
And then I went off touniversity and I joined the
university air squadron, whichis like a continuation of the
air cadets, and I continued theuniversity air squadron, which
is like a continuation of theair cadets, and I continued to
fly with them.
And it was my second year atuni they changed the rules and I
applied and I eventually got in.
I failed all the testsinitially, but again
(04:13):
perseverance got in and it tookme nearly four and a half years
to reach the front line.
So it's a little bit like doingmedicine, you know, a five-year
degree type thing.
So that was the sort of timeperiod that it would be taking.
It can go up or down dependenton how many people are going
through the system at the time.
(04:33):
And you start by flyingsomething that goes at about 120
miles an hour For myself thatwas called the Firefly and then
you progress.
After that, when you would go onto myself, it was called the
Tucano, it's now the Texan.
That goes at double the speed,so 240 to 300 miles per hour and
then, if you pass that course,you will be streamed to fly fast
jets and you would then go andfly the Hawk, which is based at
(04:56):
RAF Valley in Anglesey, and theHawk is what the Red Arrows fly
so many people have seen thosedisplaying at air shows and that
now goes in the sort of speedrange of 420 to 500 miles an
hour.
Um, and when you pass thatcourse, then you get streamed to
fly the fast jets that are onthe front line.
So for the people now that'sthe typhoon or the f-35, the
(05:18):
lightning and um, and they'regoing at a lot of well, let's
just say, faster than that.
Even so, the tornado, I thinkyou it's going, it can certainly
fly up to, you know, mach 1.
And you're breaking the speedof sound, and the jets that are
around at the moment arecertainly doing that quite
easily.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
That sounds quite interesting.
So what's the quickest?
You've actually been, then, inaircraft.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
It was actually in a T f3, I hate to say, which is
the fighter variety and I was ona training sortie with a
colleague and we were sort offairly low level over the sea
and we basically explored theenvelope.
We went up to about 1.2.
So, um, 1.2 mac and the thebizarre thing is is that you
know people sort of hear thisbig boom and they think you know
(06:05):
, like, think about the Concordedays and hearing this, you know
breaking the sound barrier.
When you're actually in theaircraft and you're flying it,
you only have one indicationthat you've broken the speed of
sound and that is the Mac meterand all it does is that you see
it's gone through Mac one.
You don't notice it becausethat boom is happening behind
you.
So it's not like you get thisbolt and you know, and you're
(06:25):
shaking or anything like that.
Um, you're simply, yeah, goingpretty damn fast, yeah, so it's
quite interesting.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
So of course, you experience quite a lot of
g-forces when pulling um, likevertical maneuvers and stuff um.
So f1 drivers can experiencearound 6Gs under deceleration,
braking and cornering, and I'veread that fast jet pilots can
experience around 9Gs sometimesin some scenarios.
(06:52):
So what's it like to actuallyexperience that?
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Well, 9g is pretty brutal.
So fortunately for the TornadoGR4, which was the one that I
flew, you wouldn't really beexperiencing really you
experiencing really huge amountsof G-force, particularly
because you were often carryingweapons, fuel tanks and all of
those things that hang off.
It limit how much G you canpull.
So I think a typical turn you'dbe basically pulling up to
about 4G.
(07:16):
Now what you're wearing is aG-suit, which I don't believe
they wear in Formula One cars,and the G-suit is basically like
a pair of cowboy chaps, if youcan imagine like they're sort of
like these trousers and youwear them on your lower half.
What we did in the tornado, inthe um eurofighter, in the um
typhoon and eurofighter the umsorry, oh gosh, complete the
(07:41):
typhoon.
They basically wear a g-suit ontheir upper body as well and
what it is is these tiny pocketsof air, these like cushions
effect, and when you wear themit's plugged into the g, the
anti-g system of the air foraircraft, and as you pull
g-force, these little pockets ofair expand and they compress
(08:03):
around your arms and around yourlegs and they prevent the blood
from pooling in yourextremities.
So if they're stopping it fromgetting into your legs and your
arms.
It's keeping it in your centralposition and therefore keeping
it more likely to be in yourhead.
Because if you don't wear thoseand you suddenly snap a huge
amount of G-force, what oftenhappens is you go into G,
g-induced loss of consciousness.
(08:25):
So g-lock which can be reallyreally dangerous if you're
flying and I've experienced thatonce before, but 9g is, they
say it's your body becomes thesame weight as a formula one car
.
So that's how heavy you arebecause you aren't quite
literally pinned in your seat.
And I was doing some trialswhere they kept on putting me in
this spiral down turn.
We were hitting like constant9G and I was there again and
(08:46):
just look over your head.
I was like I can't move my head.
I'm literally like stuck inposition, really worried that
you're going to strain anddamage your neck actually.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
So it's pretty tough um, so do you train as a fighter
pilot?
So in f1 the drivers trainextensively for their fitness to
actually withstand the forcesof the g's.
Um so do you have a specificfitness regime that you stick to
as a pilot, or?
Speaker 1 (09:13):
well, they've got much better at that now because,
to be honest, when I was flyingthem which I qualified 25 years
ago on type, which just makesme feel so old Actually there
was nothing really around.
You know, there was.
There was sort of like oh, youknow, some of us were into our
fitness I was always into myfitness but there was definitely
nothing.
For let's go to the gym and ifyou watch what they're doing in
(09:35):
the gym now Formula One drivers,you know they're doing sort of
weights with their neck.
They're actually sort ofstrengthening the muscles around
the neck.
We didn't do anything like that.
We have this annual fitnesstest which was like a bleep test
and it was like and with a fewpress-ups and sit-ups thrown in
and it was like crack on um.
But no, they've got much, muchbetter than that, because quite
(09:56):
a lot of people, of course,suffered from neck injuries as a
consequence of pulling g-force.
And if you, it wasn't quite asbad for the pilot because you
knew what was coming, becauseyou're flying it.
But if you were sitting in theback seat as a as a an observer
or weapon systems operator ornavigator and your head was down
looking at a map and thensuddenly the pilot in the front
pulls a lot of g and if you'rein the wrong position, you know
(10:18):
you could be seriously umdamaged, you know, from your
neck and your back.
So you have to be reallycareful yeah, of course.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Um, like you mentioned, with the weights and
everything.
Like I go to the gym as aracing driver and do a lot of
cardio fitness just to withstand, yeah, um, whatever gets thrown
at me, because, uh, if you'refitter in your body, then you
can be fitter in your mind whenyou're racing yeah, completely.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
And and you know how much sort of g-force would you
um experience in the driving?
Speaker 2 (10:48):
that you do so in karting.
I think I've seen someone pullup to about two d's around a
racer, which is, I think it'sprobably more than what we pull
in cars, just because we havesuspension in cars, um, yeah,
that cushions the, the braking,acceleration, the impacts and
everything like that.
Um, but in karting there's nosuspension, it's just gosh,
(11:10):
that's quite bumpy, isn't ityeah?
so when you're going over umcurves at like 70 miles per hour
in a in a car, it's a lot lessthan going over a curb at 70 in
a in a car.
Um, what's your max speed thenthat you would do in a in a car?
Speaker 1 (11:22):
it's a lot less than going over a curb at 70 in a in
a car?
Um, what's your max speed thenthat you would do in a cart?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
uh, so in a cart I've , I think I've called around 70
to 80 miles per hour um in a carum around 110 miles per hour um
on a track.
Uh, yeah, so I think uh, 110miles per hour on snettetum okay
, has the longest straight um inthe uk, um, so you go down and
(11:52):
it's just like it takes foreverto get down that straight, but
especially if you're behindanother car, then you can pull
about 110 miles per hour.
Um, uh, also at froxton as well.
That has actually.
I might tell a lie.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
I think froxton might have the longest straight, but
it's not very straight, it'skind of then I used to fly
froxton actually, and used towatch them all racing around the
track beneath me.
Actually I was flying.
Where were you based then whenyou flew over, uh, boscombe,
boscombe dam?
So we weren't that far fromThruxton, so I used to go flying
.
We had a contract there and Icould go flying with them.
But I did a race day the otherday actually.
(12:27):
It was my son's 21st and so Itreated him to this three-car
racing experience and we went toan old, disused airfield to do
it.
And I can't remember the nameof the car I'm terrible but um,
I think it was a Mazda of somesort and it was really unusual.
And the guy said, and I wasgoing down this straight and, um
, you know, and I was likereally like laughing, oh my god,
(12:48):
this is great fun.
He goes.
No, no, no, the turbo's notkicked in yet.
And I went what I mean we'realready doing like plus 90 ish,
hit the turn.
He just said keep it, keep yourfoot depressed.
And this turbo kicked in and Iwas like thrust back and I said,
oh my god, he goes.
Yeah, apparently it's just liketaking off in a fast chair.
And I sort of went yeah, it'snot that dissimilar and he went
what I said, oh, you supply them.
(13:09):
He was like, oh, my god, youcould have told me.
So it was really funny, but mygod, I couldn't take the smile
off my face.
I mean, it's very differentdoing that sort of speed on the
ground compared to in the airyeah, of course, because you
have all the um, the bumps andeverything on the road.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Yeah, of course you do.
Yes, um, so is there like?
Um, obviously, you see in liketop gun and everything.
There's a hard deck, so, um,you can only go like a certain
speed, um, when you're at acertain altitude.
Is it similar to that in actualflying?
Speaker 1 (13:39):
yeah, yeah, it is.
I mean, if you're doing aircombat, which is what you would
see them doing in in top gun inthe films, where they're
actually like one aircraft thatis like 1v1 or 2v1, you know
that that hard deck is really,really important.
That's your safety base andit's basically as if saying, you
know what we're going to put inthis false hard deck of, say, 3
000 feet and we want you toimagine that that is the ground
(14:03):
and if you go below it, you knowyou potentially, because what
you need to give yourself is apull out.
And if you're doing, you knoweven aerobatic maneuvers and
things like that you'll havethese what's called gates.
So you could be up at 5,000 andthat will be your gate which
will give you enough height topull out of that maneuver.
If you and that will be yourgait which will give you enough
(14:27):
height to pull out of thatmaneuver if you're on speed, um,
you know, at that height,you'll know it take, you'd, say,
2 000 feet to pull out thatmaneuver.
So yeah, it's very we do talk alot about um, we have a safety
altitude.
So if you're ever doing anyaerobatics or anything, we we
use what's called the safetyaltitude, which uses the height
of the ground plus potentially,say, 2000 feet, depending on
what you're doing.
If you're spinning, you mightadd plus a bit more as well.
So, yeah, we do build in andfactor in, so it's incredibly
(14:48):
safe to be doing what we'redoing yeah, so um, and obviously
the speed.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
You can't break the um sound barrier over um as well
, can you?
Speaker 1 (15:00):
no, and, and, to be honest, you don't normally do
that anyway.
I mean, I've done it to giveyou perspective.
In 25 years of flying withinthe air force, I've only done it
twice, you know, and it's justbecause we could um, so it's not
something that you would doordinarily and you're, you're
limited to certain speeds.
I mean, if you're flying lowlevel, for example, excuse me,
(15:24):
um over wales, you'd be limitedand say you know, you can't go
faster than 420.
You can accelerate up to 500knots, um, because we're, of
course, talking knots, which issimilar to miles per hour, but
you can add a little bit more,uh, if you convert it.
So, um, yeah, I mean, you'renormally not going much faster
than that, but if you're doingflying, perhaps in canada, in
(15:45):
more deserted areas, then youcan, you know, actually go a bit
faster as well um, well,where's where's like the
furthest you've been from the uklike based.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
So obviously you said you were based in in um, iraq,
um, and you've just mentionedcanada as well.
So were you based in canada atany point?
Speaker 1 (16:03):
yeah.
So you will do detachments allover the world, basically
because there's only so muchpracticing that you can do.
Flying in the uk's green andpleasant land, you know if
you're fighting a in a war in ahot desert average.
You know very hot temperatures,it's got you know very
different sort of dynamics whenyou're flying.
(16:23):
You need to practice in thoseareas.
So we would deploy to Arizonadesert to and a big exercise
called red flag, which is flyingout of Nellis Air Force Base,
which is just outside Las Vegas.
Tough job, someone had to do it.
And then we would also dowhat's called operational low
flying.
We would deploy over to canada,where it's got a much, much
(16:45):
less you know inhabited areas,so you could be literally flying
over forestry and you would notsee another building at all.
So you're not disturbing anyoneto do that sort of practicing
because obviously the uk's got,you know, a lot more higher
density of population as well.
So yeah, and then I've flownout in Iraq as well and Kuwait.
So yeah, that's that.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
You mentioned before as well earlier on, that females
actually couldn't get into theRoyal Air Force as a fast jet
pilot when you were younger andwhen you started flying at 13.
I assume it was always yourpassion.
So what's it like being in amale dominated workplace?
Because obviously, racing ismale dominated as well?
(17:31):
Um, do you have to likeapproach things in different
ways, or how does it work?
Speaker 1 (17:37):
yeah it's, it's a really.
So.
I talk a lot now and I do a lotof keynote speaking.
I speak to a lot of schools aswell, and one of the things I
say is you know, it's reallyimportant, and the biggest
lesson I learned, I think,throughout my entire career, was
be unapologetically yourself,because it's so easy just to, if
you're in a very male,dominated environment, to
(17:58):
completely mould who you are, tochange your behaviours to
perhaps, you know, give up onsome of your values, and
actually that's not what we wantto.
We don't want more people justto blend in.
We want people who stand out andwho are happy to be themselves
themselves, because there is agulf between fitting in, which
is where we constantly morph,and belonging.
(18:18):
And I think when we talk about,you know, culture, culture has
shifted so much in society as awhole as well, because people
are willing to stand out.
And's why I'm just so thrilledthat we embrace that and we've
got so much more positivityaround different you know
different people, be it theirgender, be it their cultures,
whatever it is, their beliefsets, and I think that's so
(18:39):
important because, you know, ifwe got a more diverse population
, then we're going to getdifferent results as well.
And I think if you just onlyrecruit the same sort of people
into, say, like the air force,then you're only going to ever
have those same sort of peopleworking there with the same
ideas.
Um and so, yeah, for years Idid try and mold into being one
of the guys and then actually Irealized I was never going to be
(19:01):
that happy if I did that.
But it takes a lot of characterand you've got to be quite
strong in your own you know, inyour own beliefs and who you are
on confidence to say actually I, I'm happy to be me.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
I said in one speech I think I'm happy to not be a
man and be a Mandy.
I like that quote.
So in Top Gun as well wementioned Top Gun earlier
Maverick pulls off, he hits thebrakes and flies right by.
That's one of his famous quotesby Tom Cruise.
So does anything like thatactually happen?
(19:37):
Is that a legit manoeuvre or isit just Hollywood?
Speaker 1 (19:40):
I've never really seen anyone hit the brakes and
they fly right by, but you knowthere are.
I mean, a lot of the flyingscenes are quite realistic.
It's what sort of training thatyou do do?
I did meet Tom Cruise.
There you go.
That's my name drop.
Training that you do do I didmeet Tom Cruise?
There you go.
That's my name drop.
In fact, yeah, surprisingly,that's my pinned post on
Instagram is me meeting TomCruise.
But no, it was great and I waschatting to him.
(20:05):
And when I went to see the movie, it was so funny because I went
to see it with my son, who was19 at the time.
He just said Mom, it's not adocumentary, can you stop this
running commentary?
Well, that happen.
Well, that's not right, um.
And I said to tom, um to tom,because he and I are obviously
best friends now, um, I said tohim you know, it's a shame that
you won't ever be able to makeanother top gun, maverick,
because you've you've ejectedtoo many times and you're now
grounded in as far as the airforce is concerned.
(20:25):
He said I think you'll findit's called hollywood otherwise.
Yeah, that's fair enough.
Okay, I'll get back in my box.
You're like um, but uh, yeah,no, a lot of the flying scenes
were just brilliant.
I mean, I absolutely loved it,um, you know, and it has, of
course, got the sparkle ofHollywood on top of it, but
that's fair enough, I think.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
I mean, my dad introduced me to Top Gun, the
original, which is actually myfavorite film of all time.
Um, when I was younger, when Iwas probably about six, he used
to watch all the old films withme and the ones that he was
younger, um, so like Rush, um,which is a racing uh film, yeah,
and um, he'd watch all of theseold films with me.
(21:05):
So actually, um, I wanted to bea fast jet pilot in the RAF.
Um, it was my dream to be afast jet pilot.
But the RAF, it was my dream tobe a fast jet pilot, but
because of my juvenile arthritis, which we talked about earlier,
that's a disqualifying factor.
Yeah, medical grounds.
So obviously I don't complainbecause I'm now a racing driver.
(21:27):
So I still get to go quite fastspeeds on the ground, which
suits me perfectly.
Speed is in my blood.
I just get to go quite fastspeeds on the ground, which
suits me perfectly.
Speed is in my blood.
I just wanted to know has thereever been any setbacks that
you've experienced andinfluences in your life that led
you to keep persevering andhave that determination to carry
(21:47):
on and lead your life?
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Yeah, absolutely Well .
Role model wise, my grandpa waswas very influential to myself
when I was growing up andactually he'd been a pilot in
the second world war and heshared his stories with me.
Um, and then my mum encouragedme to join the air cadets and
and that's when I sort of flewfor the first time and loved it.
And I think when I spoke to thepilot I said to him excuse me,
sir, to get paid for this, hesaid it's my job, my career, and
(22:10):
I it's the first time I'd sortof put two and two together that
you could actually do somethingas a career that you were
passionate about, not justsomething that you had to go to
work to get paid.
And I think that's what reallysort of you know, lit the fire
to follow my dream as well.
And also Top Gun as well wasround as well, in sort of what
was it?
86, which you know I was 13 atthe time when that was out, and
(22:32):
so all of those coming together.
And then when I applied to jointhe Air Force, I failed
initially the medical, because Iwas told I had an obesity
problem, because the heightcharts for women only went up to
five foot eight and I was sixfoot tall, and so they said, oh,
I should be nine and a bitstone or something.
And I was like what?
And they said, yeah, how areyou going to remedy your obesity
issue?
And I was thinking, and I waslike what?
And they said, yeah, how areyou going to remedy your obesity
(22:54):
issue?
And I was thinking, crikey, Ihad to lose three and a half
stone.
So I did it.
I lost three and a half stonein weight, cut a leg off, I
think basically was the only way.
But I did that with a brutaldiet when I was doing my
A-levels Lost the weight, gotthe flying scholarship, put the
weight back on thank goodness Be.
And then, when they changed therules and allowed women to join
, I applied and I failed everysingle one of the aptitude tests
.
(23:14):
So if it hadn't been for theboss of that university squadron
saying, hold on a minute,mandy's quite a good pilot, why
can't she pass the tests?
He didn't look at the tests andsay, well, she's failed, so
she's no good, he decided tochallenge the Air Force on my
behalf, and so you know, I hadpeople who were behind me so
much of the time as well, andyou know my mum would always say
and I think it sounds like yourdad's been probably one of
(23:35):
those supporters for yourself isthat you know, if it's going to
be someone, why shouldn't it beyou?
And if you're doing all theright things, you know, yes,
there might be a little bit ofluck that's needed on the way,
but ultimately, why shouldn't itbe you?
(23:58):
And I think it's about havingthat belief that you can do
things and you know, and if youcan facilitate that by doing
things that put in place thesteps to make it easy to achieve
those goals.
And so, yeah, I was very luckyto have that and, as I was going
through flying training as well, I had some brilliant course
mates who really helped me outas well.
So that whole teamwork thing'sreally, really important.
(24:19):
So I think it's aboutsurrounding yourself with people
who inspire you, who believe inyou, and you can do that.
Vice versa, we would call itthe trusted wingman, you know,
or wingwoman, which is like I'llbe honest, danielle, and you
reached out and asked me to comeon this podcast.
I don't always say yes to themall and I thought you know, good
for you.
You know, you're meeting people, you're in, you're hopefully
(24:41):
going to inspire other peopleand you're having the confidence
to put yourself out there anddo something different to
hopefully reach a differentaudience, and you know I've got
a huge respect to you for doingthat as well.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Thank you and, as you probably know, that the UK has
just built two Elizabeth classaircraft carriers and, although
these are great assets to the UK, do you think that AI and
unmanned aircraft, um will rollout or um will your own role as
(25:14):
a fighter pilot become a dyingbreed at some point and the
evolution of battle and thebattle space will change to the
point and flight will becomeunmanned in the future?
Speaker 1 (25:26):
I think it's a really good question and I think it's.
I mean, if you look at whatwe're doing perhaps in the Air
Force at the moment under SpaceCommand, we're looking at UAVs,
unmanned aerial vehicles all thetime the progression of drones.
They're being used already inthe workspace, in battlefield
management as well, and sopeople are now recruited to go
(25:47):
in straight away as drone pilots.
So you're not even going in asa pilot and then saying, oh,
would you mind flying drones?
You know you are actuallyrecruited, knowing you will
never actually step into anactual aircraft and something
that suits some people as well.
So we're going to see more andmore of that.
Of course we are, but they'revery much looking at perhaps
sort of combined airspacescenarios whereby you have
(26:10):
perhaps one manned vehicle andthen almost a formation of
drones with you so that you'vegot somebody that's thinking,
you know, in that moment, inthat exact space.
But I think of course we'regoing to see huge advances in
unmanned aerial vehicles all thetime, because we'd be crazy to
not think that.
And if you think you don't haveto have a pilot who's a in
(26:32):
danger and b, you don't have toput all of that technology of
like the ejection seats, theweight and all of those things
having a manned vehicle, thenultimately you're going to be
able to carry a better payloadand you'll be able to perhaps
carry more fuel, perhaps moreweapons and all of those things
that actually are going to makea difference, and and you can
fly those from the UK.
(26:53):
You know, you often only haveone person in a theatre who is
there for the takeoff andlanding.
The rest of it is completelyflown remotely from the UK or it
was originally from America.
So yeah, we will see more andmore of that, but I think it's
interesting when you read thatacross to the commercial world,
would passengers ever be happyto fly with an unmanned
(27:13):
commercial aircraft?
Speaker 2 (27:17):
For now we still have , obviously we still have fast
jet pilots and that's reallyexciting for people who want to
get into that field.
And obviously, here you are nowand you're doing motivational
speaking now, is that right?
Speaker 1 (27:33):
yeah, that's right.
Yeah, I mean, I've traveled thelast 12 years.
I left 12 years ago and forprobably the last 10 years I've
been, um, speaking all over theworld um, really busy.
I probably do two or three aweek and, yeah, it's great.
I travel a lot.
I get to share my story, um, Ihave written a book which you
know has sold about 35,000copies and that's been great.
(27:55):
So a lot of young people haveread that and hopefully it's
inspired them to follow theirdreams, be that whether it's
going into, you know, flying, orgoing into whatever, but just
doing something different andhaving that choice that's now
available is fantastic.
So, yeah, I absolutely love therole I've got now.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Well, mandy Mandy, it's definitely been a pleasure
to have you on this podcast andhopefully it can inspire more
young people and young girls tofeel a future in the Royal Air
Force is for them.
So thank you so much, and thisis the F word.
Thank you for tuning in and seeyou all next time.
Bye.
Hi and welcome to the F Word.
I'm your racing driver and host, daniela Sutton, and I'm
exploring the world of extremelyfast females.
This episode I'm delighted tointroduce Mandy Hickson, who is
an ex-RF pilot fast jet pilot.
So, mandy, can you tell us abit about yourself?
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Certainly so.
Hi, Daniela.
Firstly, I love the title ofyour podcast, which is great.
I mean, who would have thoughtit?
The F word actually with aclever spin on it, so to speak,
which is great.
So a little bit of mybackground.
I was in the Royal Air Force.
I served for 17 was in theroyal air force.
I served for 17 years as a inthe full-time reserve and then
eight years as a reservist flewthe tornado gr4, which think top
(00:50):
gun, it's a fast jet, sort of alittle bit like the f-15
equivalent, um and yeah, and Isort of saw active service over
flying over iraq as well duringthe gulf war conflict okay, so
you mentioned iraq.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
So, um, my dad was actually um on operation telic
in 2003 in iraq.
Um he served, which is quiteclose to my heart.
He served in the logisticscorps and um obviously around
that time.
So can you tell us a bit about,like your experience being on
the front line in warfare?
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, it's different foreverybody and, I think,
depending on where you're basedand what you're doing.
So I was over there from 99 to2003.
Just when Gulf War II started,we had just come back.
So we missed Gulf War III,sorry, gulf War Three.
(01:45):
We missed Gulf War Two, whichwas Operation TELIC.
So when your dad was out there,I'd have just come back,
unfortunately.
So we actually missed in thatone.
But what we were doing wasdefending the no-fly zone over
southern Iraq.
So we were based in Kuwait andwe would fly on a daily basis,
either as a show of force or wewere sometimes targeting
missions, perhaps if to suppresstheir build-up of their enemy
(02:07):
air defenses.
Basically, um, and yeah, I meanit was.
It was a very interesting timeperiod.
I mean, I was shot at bysurface to air missile on one
occasion which, uh, locked ontothe heat of my engines.
It was sent up in a heatseeking mode.
Fortunately, otherwise I won'tbe here to tell this the tale I
managed to evade it.
Um, and, yeah, we were.
We saw some pretty dangerousmissions that we were involved
(02:31):
in when we were due to head up,but much further north, perhaps
just south of baghdad, where wewere due to target, um, a fiber
optics building, because they'reabout to basically put all of
our intelligence under theground by then developing their
fiber optics telecommunicationssystems.
So, yeah, we had a whole rangeof different targets.
Uh, and that was my role outthere as well that and
(02:52):
reconnaissance as well um so howlong did it?
Speaker 2 (02:55):
obviously, because that sounds like quite a lot
it's obviously must have tookquite a long time to train for
that.
Um, so were you during thatbasic training, were you trained
specific for, specifically forthat, and how did it work and
everything?
Speaker 1 (03:10):
yeah, so I can talk you a bit through the training.
So, um, for anyone that'sinterested in doing this, I
started off flying when I was 13, but at that stage of life
women weren't allowed to bepilots in the air force.
So I'd chosen a career thatdidn't exist, but I chipped away
at it.
I took every opportunity thatwas available to myself at
school, every leadershipposition from you know prefix up
(03:32):
to head girl.
I was a real joiner.
I joined all the differentclubs outside.
So I was in the Air Cadets, Iwas in the guides which led me
to become the Rangers.
I did my Duke of Edinburghaward scheme.
So I did all of those sorts ofthings because I felt it would
put me in a good position ifthey did change the rules.
And I gained a flyingscholarship From that.
(03:52):
I got my private pilot'slicense.
So I'm now 17 and I can fly anaeroplane before I can actually
drive a car.
And then I went off touniversity and I joined the
university air squadron, whichis like a continuation of the
air cadets, and I continued theuniversity air squadron, which
is like a continuation of theair cadets, and I continued to
fly with them.
And it was my second year atuni they changed the rules and I
applied and I eventually got in.
I failed all the testsinitially, but again
(04:13):
perseverance got in and it tookme nearly four and a half years
to reach the front line.
So it's a little bit like doingmedicine, you know, a five-year
degree type thing.
So that was the sort of timeperiod that it would be taking.
It can go up or down dependenton how many people are going
through the system at the time.
(04:33):
And you start by flyingsomething that goes at about 120
miles an hour For myself thatwas called the Firefly and then
you progress.
After that, when you would go onto myself, it was called the
Tucano, it's now the Texan.
That goes at double the speed,so 240 to 300 miles per hour and
then, if you pass that course,you will be streamed to fly fast
jets and you would then go andfly the Hawk, which is based at
(04:56):
RAF Valley in Anglesey, and theHawk is what the Red Arrows fly
so many people have seen thosedisplaying at air shows and that
now goes in the sort of speedrange of 420 to 500 miles an
hour.
Um, and when you pass thatcourse, then you get streamed to
fly the fast jets that are onthe front line.
So for the people now that'sthe typhoon or the f-35, the
(05:18):
lightning and um, and they'regoing at a lot of well, let's
just say, faster than that.
Even so, the tornado, I thinkyou it's going, it can certainly
fly up to, you know, mach 1.
And you're breaking the speedof sound, and the jets that are
around at the moment arecertainly doing that quite
easily.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
That sounds quite interesting.
So what's the quickest?
You've actually been, then, inaircraft.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
It was actually in a T f3, I hate to say, which is
the fighter variety and I was ona training sortie with a
colleague and we were sort offairly low level over the sea
and we basically explored theenvelope.
We went up to about 1.2.
So, um, 1.2 mac and the thebizarre thing is is that you
know people sort of hear thisbig boom and they think you know
(06:05):
, like, think about the Concordedays and hearing this, you know
breaking the sound barrier.
When you're actually in theaircraft and you're flying it,
you only have one indicationthat you've broken the speed of
sound and that is the Mac meterand all it does is that you see
it's gone through Mac one.
You don't notice it becausethat boom is happening behind
you.
So it's not like you get thisbolt and you know, and you're
(06:25):
shaking or anything like that.
Um, you're simply, yeah, goingpretty damn fast, yeah, so it's
quite interesting.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
So of course, you experience quite a lot of
g-forces when pulling um, likevertical maneuvers and stuff um.
So f1 drivers can experiencearound 6Gs under deceleration,
braking and cornering, and I'veread that fast jet pilots can
experience around 9Gs sometimesin some scenarios.
(06:52):
So what's it like to actuallyexperience that?
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Well, 9g is pretty brutal.
So fortunately for the TornadoGR4, which was the one that I
flew, you wouldn't really beexperiencing really you
experiencing really huge amountsof G-force, particularly
because you were often carryingweapons, fuel tanks and all of
those things that hang off.
It limit how much G you canpull.
So I think a typical turn you'dbe basically pulling up to
about 4G.
(07:16):
Now what you're wearing is aG-suit, which I don't believe
they wear in Formula One cars,and the G-suit is basically like
a pair of cowboy chaps, if youcan imagine like they're sort of
like these trousers and youwear them on your lower half.
What we did in the tornado, inthe um eurofighter, in the um
typhoon and eurofighter the umsorry, oh gosh, complete the
(07:41):
typhoon.
They basically wear a g-suit ontheir upper body as well and
what it is is these tiny pocketsof air, these like cushions
effect, and when you wear themit's plugged into the g, the
anti-g system of the air foraircraft, and as you pull
g-force, these little pockets ofair expand and they compress
(08:03):
around your arms and around yourlegs and they prevent the blood
from pooling in yourextremities.
So if they're stopping it fromgetting into your legs and your
arms.
It's keeping it in your centralposition and therefore keeping
it more likely to be in yourhead.
Because if you don't wear thoseand you suddenly snap a huge
amount of G-force, what oftenhappens is you go into G,
g-induced loss of consciousness.
(08:25):
So g-lock which can be reallyreally dangerous if you're
flying and I've experienced thatonce before, but 9g is, they
say it's your body becomes thesame weight as a formula one car
.
So that's how heavy you arebecause you aren't quite
literally pinned in your seat.
And I was doing some trialswhere they kept on putting me in
this spiral down turn.
We were hitting like constant9G and I was there again and
(08:46):
just look over your head.
I was like I can't move my head.
I'm literally like stuck inposition, really worried that
you're going to strain anddamage your neck actually.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
So it's pretty tough um, so do you train as a fighter
pilot?
So in f1 the drivers trainextensively for their fitness to
actually withstand the forcesof the g's.
Um so do you have a specificfitness regime that you stick to
as a pilot, or?
Speaker 1 (09:13):
well, they've got much better at that now because,
to be honest, when I was flyingthem which I qualified 25 years
ago on type, which just makesme feel so old Actually there
was nothing really around.
You know, there was.
There was sort of like oh, youknow, some of us were into our
fitness I was always into myfitness but there was definitely
nothing.
For let's go to the gym and ifyou watch what they're doing in
(09:35):
the gym now Formula One drivers,you know they're doing sort of
weights with their neck.
They're actually sort ofstrengthening the muscles around
the neck.
We didn't do anything like that.
We have this annual fitnesstest which was like a bleep test
and it was like and with a fewpress-ups and sit-ups thrown in
and it was like crack on um.
But no, they've got much, muchbetter than that, because quite
(09:56):
a lot of people, of course,suffered from neck injuries as a
consequence of pulling g-force.
And if you, it wasn't quite asbad for the pilot because you
knew what was coming, becauseyou're flying it.
But if you were sitting in theback seat as a as a an observer
or weapon systems operator ornavigator and your head was down
looking at a map and thensuddenly the pilot in the front
pulls a lot of g and if you'rein the wrong position, you know
(10:18):
you could be seriously umdamaged, you know, from your
neck and your back.
So you have to be reallycareful yeah, of course.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Um, like you mentioned, with the weights and
everything.
Like I go to the gym as aracing driver and do a lot of
cardio fitness just to withstand, yeah, um, whatever gets thrown
at me, because, uh, if you'refitter in your body, then you
can be fitter in your mind whenyou're racing yeah, completely.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
And and you know how much sort of g-force would you
um experience in the driving?
Speaker 2 (10:48):
that you do so in karting.
I think I've seen someone pullup to about two d's around a
racer, which is, I think it'sprobably more than what we pull
in cars, just because we havesuspension in cars, um, yeah,
that cushions the, the braking,acceleration, the impacts and
everything like that.
Um, but in karting there's nosuspension, it's just gosh,
(11:10):
that's quite bumpy, isn't ityeah?
so when you're going over umcurves at like 70 miles per hour
in a in a car, it's a lot lessthan going over a curb at 70 in
a in a car.
Um, what's your max speed thenthat you would do in a in a car?
Speaker 1 (11:22):
it's a lot less than going over a curb at 70 in a in
a car?
Um, what's your max speed thenthat you would do in a cart?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
uh, so in a cart I've , I think I've called around 70
to 80 miles per hour um in a carum around 110 miles per hour um
on a track.
Uh, yeah, so I think uh, 110miles per hour on snettetum okay
, has the longest straight um inthe uk, um, so you go down and
(11:52):
it's just like it takes foreverto get down that straight, but
especially if you're behindanother car, then you can pull
about 110 miles per hour.
Um, uh, also at froxton as well.
That has actually.
I might tell a lie.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
I think froxton might have the longest straight, but
it's not very straight, it'skind of then I used to fly
froxton actually, and used towatch them all racing around the
track beneath me.
Actually I was flying.
Where were you based then whenyou flew over, uh, boscombe,
boscombe dam?
So we weren't that far fromThruxton, so I used to go flying
.
We had a contract there and Icould go flying with them.
But I did a race day the otherday actually.
(12:27):
It was my son's 21st and so Itreated him to this three-car
racing experience and we went toan old, disused airfield to do
it.
And I can't remember the nameof the car I'm terrible but um,
I think it was a Mazda of somesort and it was really unusual.
And the guy said, and I wasgoing down this straight and, um
, you know, and I was likereally like laughing, oh my god,
(12:48):
this is great fun.
He goes.
No, no, no, the turbo's notkicked in yet.
And I went what I mean we'realready doing like plus 90 ish,
hit the turn.
He just said keep it, keep yourfoot depressed.
And this turbo kicked in and Iwas like thrust back and I said,
oh my god, he goes.
Yeah, apparently it's just liketaking off in a fast chair.
And I sort of went yeah, it'snot that dissimilar and he went
what I said, oh, you supply them.
(13:09):
He was like, oh, my god, youcould have told me.
So it was really funny, but mygod, I couldn't take the smile
off my face.
I mean, it's very differentdoing that sort of speed on the
ground compared to in the airyeah, of course, because you
have all the um, the bumps andeverything on the road.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Yeah, of course you do.
Yes, um, so is there like?
Um, obviously, you see in liketop gun and everything.
There's a hard deck, so, um,you can only go like a certain
speed, um, when you're at acertain altitude.
Is it similar to that in actualflying?
Speaker 1 (13:39):
yeah, yeah, it is.
I mean, if you're doing aircombat, which is what you would
see them doing in in top gun inthe films, where they're
actually like one aircraft thatis like 1v1 or 2v1, you know
that that hard deck is really,really important.
That's your safety base andit's basically as if saying, you
know what we're going to put inthis false hard deck of, say, 3
000 feet and we want you toimagine that that is the ground
(14:03):
and if you go below it, you knowyou potentially, because what
you need to give yourself is apull out.
And if you're doing, you knoweven aerobatic maneuvers and
things like that you'll havethese what's called gates.
So you could be up at 5,000 andthat will be your gate which
will give you enough height topull out of that maneuver.
If you and that will be yourgait which will give you enough
(14:27):
height to pull out of thatmaneuver if you're on speed, um,
you know, at that height,you'll know it take, you'd, say,
2 000 feet to pull out thatmaneuver.
So yeah, it's very we do talk alot about um, we have a safety
altitude.
So if you're ever doing anyaerobatics or anything, we we
use what's called the safetyaltitude, which uses the height
of the ground plus potentially,say, 2000 feet, depending on
what you're doing.
If you're spinning, you mightadd plus a bit more as well.
So, yeah, we do build in andfactor in, so it's incredibly
(14:48):
safe to be doing what we'redoing yeah, so um, and obviously
the speed.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
You can't break the um sound barrier over um as well
, can you?
Speaker 1 (15:00):
no, and, and, to be honest, you don't normally do
that anyway.
I mean, I've done it to giveyou perspective.
In 25 years of flying withinthe air force, I've only done it
twice, you know, and it's justbecause we could um, so it's not
something that you would doordinarily and you're, you're
limited to certain speeds.
I mean, if you're flying lowlevel, for example, excuse me,
(15:24):
um over wales, you'd be limitedand say you know, you can't go
faster than 420.
You can accelerate up to 500knots, um, because we're, of
course, talking knots, which issimilar to miles per hour, but
you can add a little bit more,uh, if you convert it.
So, um, yeah, I mean, you'renormally not going much faster
than that, but if you're doingflying, perhaps in canada, in
(15:45):
more deserted areas, then youcan, you know, actually go a bit
faster as well um, well,where's where's like the
furthest you've been from the uklike based.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
So obviously you said you were based in in um, iraq,
um, and you've just mentionedcanada as well.
So were you based in canada atany point?
Speaker 1 (16:03):
yeah.
So you will do detachments allover the world, basically
because there's only so muchpracticing that you can do.
Flying in the uk's green andpleasant land, you know if
you're fighting a in a war in ahot desert average.
You know very hot temperatures,it's got you know very
different sort of dynamics whenyou're flying.
(16:23):
You need to practice in thoseareas.
So we would deploy to Arizonadesert to and a big exercise
called red flag, which is flyingout of Nellis Air Force Base,
which is just outside Las Vegas.
Tough job, someone had to do it.
And then we would also dowhat's called operational low
flying.
We would deploy over to canada,where it's got a much, much
(16:45):
less you know inhabited areas,so you could be literally flying
over forestry and you would notsee another building at all.
So you're not disturbing anyoneto do that sort of practicing
because obviously the uk's got,you know, a lot more higher
density of population as well.
So yeah, and then I've flownout in Iraq as well and Kuwait.
So yeah, that's that.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
You mentioned before as well earlier on, that females
actually couldn't get into theRoyal Air Force as a fast jet
pilot when you were younger andwhen you started flying at 13.
I assume it was always yourpassion.
So what's it like being in amale dominated workplace?
Because obviously, racing ismale dominated as well?
(17:31):
Um, do you have to likeapproach things in different
ways, or how does it work?
Speaker 1 (17:37):
yeah it's, it's a really.
So.
I talk a lot now and I do a lotof keynote speaking.
I speak to a lot of schools aswell, and one of the things I
say is you know, it's reallyimportant, and the biggest
lesson I learned, I think,throughout my entire career, was
be unapologetically yourself,because it's so easy just to, if
you're in a very male,dominated environment, to
(17:58):
completely mould who you are, tochange your behaviours to
perhaps, you know, give up onsome of your values, and
actually that's not what we wantto.
We don't want more people justto blend in.
We want people who stand out andwho are happy to be themselves
themselves, because there is agulf between fitting in, which
is where we constantly morph,and belonging.
(18:18):
And I think when we talk about,you know, culture, culture has
shifted so much in society as awhole as well, because people
are willing to stand out.
And's why I'm just so thrilledthat we embrace that and we've
got so much more positivityaround different you know
different people, be it theirgender, be it their cultures,
whatever it is, their beliefsets, and I think that's so
(18:39):
important because, you know, ifwe got a more diverse population
, then we're going to getdifferent results as well.
And I think if you just onlyrecruit the same sort of people
into, say, like the air force,then you're only going to ever
have those same sort of peopleworking there with the same
ideas.
Um and so, yeah, for years Idid try and mold into being one
of the guys and then actually Irealized I was never going to be
(19:01):
that happy if I did that.
But it takes a lot of characterand you've got to be quite
strong in your own you know, inyour own beliefs and who you are
on confidence to say actually I, I'm happy to be me.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
I said in one speech I think I'm happy to not be a
man and be a Mandy.
I like that quote.
So in Top Gun as well wementioned Top Gun earlier
Maverick pulls off, he hits thebrakes and flies right by.
That's one of his famous quotesby Tom Cruise.
So does anything like thatactually happen?
(19:37):
Is that a legit manoeuvre or isit just Hollywood?
Speaker 1 (19:40):
I've never really seen anyone hit the brakes and
they fly right by, but you knowthere are.
I mean, a lot of the flyingscenes are quite realistic.
It's what sort of training thatyou do do?
I did meet Tom Cruise.
There you go.
That's my name drop.
Training that you do do I didmeet Tom Cruise?
There you go.
That's my name drop.
In fact, yeah, surprisingly,that's my pinned post on
Instagram is me meeting TomCruise.
But no, it was great and I waschatting to him.
(20:05):
And when I went to see the movie, it was so funny because I went
to see it with my son, who was19 at the time.
He just said Mom, it's not adocumentary, can you stop this
running commentary?
Well, that happen.
Well, that's not right, um.
And I said to tom, um to tom,because he and I are obviously
best friends now, um, I said tohim you know, it's a shame that
you won't ever be able to makeanother top gun, maverick,
because you've you've ejectedtoo many times and you're now
grounded in as far as the airforce is concerned.
(20:25):
He said I think you'll findit's called hollywood otherwise.
Yeah, that's fair enough.
Okay, I'll get back in my box.
You're like um, but uh, yeah,no, a lot of the flying scenes
were just brilliant.
I mean, I absolutely loved it,um, you know, and it has, of
course, got the sparkle ofHollywood on top of it, but
that's fair enough, I think.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
I mean, my dad introduced me to Top Gun, the
original, which is actually myfavorite film of all time.
Um, when I was younger, when Iwas probably about six, he used
to watch all the old films withme and the ones that he was
younger, um, so like Rush, um,which is a racing uh film, yeah,
and um, he'd watch all of theseold films with me.
(21:05):
So actually, um, I wanted to bea fast jet pilot in the RAF.
Um, it was my dream to be afast jet pilot.
But the RAF, it was my dream tobe a fast jet pilot, but
because of my juvenile arthritis, which we talked about earlier,
that's a disqualifying factor.
Yeah, medical grounds.
So obviously I don't complainbecause I'm now a racing driver.
(21:27):
So I still get to go quite fastspeeds on the ground, which
suits me perfectly.
Speed is in my blood.
I just get to go quite fastspeeds on the ground, which
suits me perfectly.
Speed is in my blood.
I just wanted to know has thereever been any setbacks that
you've experienced andinfluences in your life that led
you to keep persevering andhave that determination to carry
(21:47):
on and lead your life?
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Yeah, absolutely Well .
Role model wise, my grandpa waswas very influential to myself
when I was growing up andactually he'd been a pilot in
the second world war and heshared his stories with me.
Um, and then my mum encouragedme to join the air cadets and
and that's when I sort of flewfor the first time and loved it.
And I think when I spoke to thepilot I said to him excuse me,
sir, to get paid for this, hesaid it's my job, my career, and
(22:10):
I it's the first time I'd sortof put two and two together that
you could actually do somethingas a career that you were
passionate about, not justsomething that you had to go to
work to get paid.
And I think that's what reallysort of you know, lit the fire
to follow my dream as well.
And also Top Gun as well wasround as well, in sort of what
was it?
86, which you know I was 13 atthe time when that was out, and
(22:32):
so all of those coming together.
And then when I applied to jointhe Air Force, I failed
initially the medical, because Iwas told I had an obesity
problem, because the heightcharts for women only went up to
five foot eight and I was sixfoot tall, and so they said, oh,
I should be nine and a bitstone or something.
And I was like what?
And they said, yeah, how areyou going to remedy your obesity
issue?
And I was thinking, and I waslike what?
And they said, yeah, how areyou going to remedy your obesity
(22:54):
issue?
And I was thinking, crikey, Ihad to lose three and a half
stone.
So I did it.
I lost three and a half stonein weight, cut a leg off, I
think basically was the only way.
But I did that with a brutaldiet when I was doing my
A-levels Lost the weight, gotthe flying scholarship, put the
weight back on thank goodness Be.
And then, when they changed therules and allowed women to join
, I applied and I failed everysingle one of the aptitude tests
.
(23:14):
So if it hadn't been for theboss of that university squadron
saying, hold on a minute,mandy's quite a good pilot, why
can't she pass the tests?
He didn't look at the tests andsay, well, she's failed, so
she's no good, he decided tochallenge the Air Force on my
behalf, and so you know, I hadpeople who were behind me so
much of the time as well, andyou know my mum would always say
and I think it sounds like yourdad's been probably one of
(23:35):
those supporters for yourself isthat you know, if it's going to
be someone, why shouldn't it beyou?
And if you're doing all theright things, you know, yes,
there might be a little bit ofluck that's needed on the way,
but ultimately, why shouldn't itbe you?
(23:58):
And I think it's about havingthat belief that you can do
things and you know, and if youcan facilitate that by doing
things that put in place thesteps to make it easy to achieve
those goals.
And so, yeah, I was very luckyto have that and, as I was going
through flying training as well, I had some brilliant course
mates who really helped me outas well.
So that whole teamwork thing'sreally, really important.
(24:19):
So I think it's aboutsurrounding yourself with people
who inspire you, who believe inyou, and you can do that.
Vice versa, we would call itthe trusted wingman, you know,
or wingwoman, which is like I'llbe honest, danielle, and you
reached out and asked me to comeon this podcast.
I don't always say yes to themall and I thought you know, good
for you.
You know, you're meeting people, you're in, you're hopefully
(24:41):
going to inspire other peopleand you're having the confidence
to put yourself out there anddo something different to
hopefully reach a differentaudience, and you know I've got
a huge respect to you for doingthat as well.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Thank you and, as you probably know, that the UK has
just built two Elizabeth classaircraft carriers and, although
these are great assets to the UK, do you think that AI and
unmanned aircraft, um will rollout or um will your own role as
(25:14):
a fighter pilot become a dyingbreed at some point and the
evolution of battle and thebattle space will change to the
point and flight will becomeunmanned in the future?
Speaker 1 (25:26):
I think it's a really good question and I think it's.
I mean, if you look at whatwe're doing perhaps in the Air
Force at the moment under SpaceCommand, we're looking at UAVs,
unmanned aerial vehicles all thetime the progression of drones.
They're being used already inthe workspace, in battlefield
management as well, and sopeople are now recruited to go
(25:47):
in straight away as drone pilots.
So you're not even going in asa pilot and then saying, oh,
would you mind flying drones?
You know you are actuallyrecruited, knowing you will
never actually step into anactual aircraft and something
that suits some people as well.
So we're going to see more andmore of that.
Of course we are, but they'revery much looking at perhaps
sort of combined airspacescenarios whereby you have
(26:10):
perhaps one manned vehicle andthen almost a formation of
drones with you so that you'vegot somebody that's thinking,
you know, in that moment, inthat exact space.
But I think of course we'regoing to see huge advances in
unmanned aerial vehicles all thetime, because we'd be crazy to
not think that.
And if you think you don't haveto have a pilot who's a in
(26:32):
danger and b, you don't have toput all of that technology of
like the ejection seats, theweight and all of those things
having a manned vehicle, thenultimately you're going to be
able to carry a better payloadand you'll be able to perhaps
carry more fuel, perhaps moreweapons and all of those things
that actually are going to makea difference, and and you can
fly those from the UK.
(26:53):
You know, you often only haveone person in a theatre who is
there for the takeoff andlanding.
The rest of it is completelyflown remotely from the UK or it
was originally from America.
So yeah, we will see more andmore of that, but I think it's
interesting when you read thatacross to the commercial world,
would passengers ever be happyto fly with an unmanned
(27:13):
commercial aircraft?
Speaker 2 (27:17):
For now we still have , obviously we still have fast
jet pilots and that's reallyexciting for people who want to
get into that field.
And obviously, here you are nowand you're doing motivational
speaking now, is that right?
Speaker 1 (27:33):
yeah, that's right.
Yeah, I mean, I've traveled thelast 12 years.
I left 12 years ago and forprobably the last 10 years I've
been, um, speaking all over theworld um, really busy.
I probably do two or three aweek and, yeah, it's great.
I travel a lot.
I get to share my story, um, Ihave written a book which you
know has sold about 35,000copies and that's been great.
(27:55):
So a lot of young people haveread that and hopefully it's
inspired them to follow theirdreams, be that whether it's
going into, you know, flying, orgoing into whatever, but just
doing something different andhaving that choice that's now
available is fantastic.
So, yeah, I absolutely love therole I've got now.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Well, mandy Mandy, it's definitely been a pleasure
to have you on this podcast andhopefully it can inspire more
young people and young girls tofeel a future in the Royal Air
Force is for them.
So thank you so much, and thisis the F word.
Thank you for tuning in and seeyou all next time.
Bye.
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