Bonnie Clevering's half-century career as a Hollywood hairstylist reads like a who's who of cinema royalty. From styling Elvis Presley and Bette Davis during the twilight of the studio system to creating iconic looks for Julia Roberts, Brad Pitt, and Kristen Stewart, Bonnie has maintained the perfect coif through five decades of filmmaking evolution.
Her journey began in 1964 when she arrived in Hollywood with a Florida hairstyling license and a dream. Through determination and a fortuitous connection, she found herself working at 20th Century Fox, learning the essential craft of theatrical hairstyling – from applying period wigs to creating looks that could withstand the demands of filmmaking. As she shares in this candid conversation, the role extends far beyond styling; it's about maintaining meticulous continuity across scenes that might be filmed months apart.
Bonnie's stories humanize the legends she's worked alongside. She recalls playing practical jokes on Elvis (including one involving spirit gum as "hand lotion" that left The King picking adhesive from his fingers all night), cooking her famous sausage biscuits and gravy for the Ocean's Eleven cast in Las Vegas, and witnessing Brad Pitt's quiet generosity toward crew members facing personal hardships. Throughout her extraordinary career spanning 120+ productions, she's developed close bonds with directors like Oliver Stone and Steven Soderbergh, becoming part of their trusted "family" of collaborators.
Perhaps most fascinating is Bonnie's perspective on Hollywood's transformation – from the controlled environment of studio lots to the global, budget-conscious productions of today. Her advice to aspiring hairstylists and her younger self alike? "Take everything a little lighter and not quite so serious." Discover more of Bonnie's remarkable Hollywood journey in her upcoming memoir "Continuity: Life Beyond the Credits," available this September on the books website: https://continuitybybonnieclevering.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hot lights fade, the curtains rise, new stories
waiting behind our eyes,charlotte and John with the
final say, breaking down thescreens in their own way.
(00:21):
This is the Final Cut, wherethe real reviews.
Well, hello there, welcome toanother Final Cut podcast, and
this week it's absolutely nocliche to say that we've got the
hairstylist to the stars withus.
This is another one of ourreally interesting podcasts
(00:43):
featuring people who've workedin or around Hollywood, and
today I'm delighted to welcomeBonnie Clevering, who has had a
career spanning over 50 years,starting with the tail end of
the Hollywood studio era andtaking us right up to the
present day.
She's worked in over 120productions in the hair or
(01:06):
makeup department hair stylist,and her list of actors that
she's worked with is stellarEverybody from, would you
believe, elvis Presley and BettyDavis in the 60s right through
to names that are householdnames today, like Brad Pitt,
(01:28):
julia Roberts, keanu Reeves,hillary Swank, al Pacino,
jennifer Aniston.
Not only that, but she's alsoworked with some of the most
distinguished directors inHollywood, names as multifarious
as Paul Verhoeven, oliver Stonewho she's worked with in
(01:48):
numerous pictures, including JFKand Born on the Fourth of July
Brian de Palma.
Also Steven Soderbergh.
So this is a lady with anabsolute stellar set of credits
and since 2001, she's been amember of the Academy of Arts
and Motion Picture Sciences ie,the people that give out the
(02:10):
Oscars.
So I'm delighted to welcomeBonnie here today, and in
September, you can read allabout her history in Hollywood.
She's got a new memoir outcalled Continuity Life Beyond
the Credits, co-written with herson, jason, and this is going
to be published via PunctuatePress and will be available to
(02:33):
order online.
So, bonnie, without further ado, it's an absolute delight to
welcome you.
Welcome to Final Cut Podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Welcome.
Oh, I'm so pleased to be here.
Thanks for inviting me.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Thank you, and you can see you're actually holding
up your book there.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
A lovely gold-colored copy by the looks of it.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yes, very heavy Hundreds and hundreds of
pictures of all kinds of things.
Wow, yeah, it goes on and on.
Amazing.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
So people can order this online, I believe.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yes, as you said.
Yes, they can, and it's even bycontinuity by
bonniecleveringcom.
So yeah, and then they'll haveit in September.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Great stuff.
Well, as a sort of taster foractually people buying and
reading that extensive memoir,let us try and take you through
some of the highlights of yourcareer.
No pun intended when we'retalking about hairstyling.
So can I take you right the wayback?
You weren't born in Hollywood.
(03:44):
I think you came to Hollywood,didn't you?
Can you maybe explain to us howyou first got into the movie
business?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
I went to Hollywood in 1964, and I had a hairstyling
license in the state of Florida.
So I knew when I went toHollywood I would work at a
beauty salon and have to get aCalifornia state license.
And so when we first we werenewly married and when we got
(04:16):
there I started looking atsalons.
And then there's a gentlemanthat lived in the apartment
complex we did, and he said whydon't you try to see about
getting in the studios as ahairstylist?
And I thought, yeah, everyhairdresser's dream to do movie
stars.
Well, he kept pushing me so Iwent ahead and I met Carmen
(04:40):
Dorigo, who was the headhairdresser back then on
Petticoat Junction and theBeverly Hillbillies, and so I
met her and she took such aliking she referred me to the
head hairdresser at 20th CenturyFox and so I got my state
(05:01):
license and then at thebeginning I just worked on big
movies where I just worked onextras, because I didn't have
the experience nights of justshowing how to apply an Indian
wig, a toupee, a period wig, allkinds of hairstyling tools to
(05:33):
use.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
So to clarify for our viewers so what does a
hairstylist do on the set?
I mean, I believe questionslike continuity is very
important.
What is actually the role of ahairstylist?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Well, now we have a makeup trailer where at the very
beginning, we always did ouractors in a studio and then go
to the stage.
But basically the last many,many years, you have a makeup
trailer that consists of makeupand hairstylist and then the
(06:10):
actor comes in and, depending onif their hair is wet or if they
don't have to have a lot ofhair, they'll go to makeup first
, but usually they'll come tohair first, because either I
have to wrap their head properlyto apply a wig later on in the
morning and they go to makeupand then they come back to hair,
(06:32):
or, if it's a hairstylist thata hairstyle that really needs
last minute work, they'll evengo and get their wardrobe on,
come back to the makeup trailer,finish their hair and then we
go to the set and then where thecontinuity comes in is after
every scene.
(06:53):
I take pictures and we usePolaroid film for many years and
then mark the Polaroid with thescene number and the day of the
script, and then we'd keepthose because it might be where
Julia Roberts is outside.
We're filming in the rain orthe snow, and then she walks up
(07:14):
to the door and it might be twomonths later.
We filmed the interior.
So that's why I have to takethe front, each side in the back
of the hairstyle for everyscene, because I have to match
that when she walks in theliving room or wherever she's
walking into days or monthslater, and so that that's where
(07:37):
the continuity, you know, comesin, and that's part of the
continuity of life, too that Iwrite about in my book.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Yes, yes.
Well, we would be remiss if wedidn't touch on some of these
major stars that you worked within the early years of your
career.
Elvis Presley how did you cometo work with him and how did you
find him as a star, both as astar and as a person?
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Well, I was working at MGM Studios and I had just
finished a series with RobertWagner and Stephanie Powers
called the Girl from Uncle andthe man from Uncle from uncle,
(08:30):
and uh, and so that was up andthen by the head of the
department assigned me it wasmore or less assigning me to the
speedway the presley sinatramovie, and uh.
So I was in charge of nancy andthen touching up or watching
Elvis, because the makeup manwas the one that actually did
(08:50):
his hair in the morning, but alot of the men just did their
hair at home and then we wouldjust watch it during.
But what was one of the mostexciting things during the
filming, priscilla Presley waspregnant with Lisa Marie and
Nancy Sinatra gave Priscilla ababy shower and invited me up to
(09:15):
her home and there were justmaybe 12 women there and I at
the time had an infertilityproblem and had a lot of
miscarriages.
So halfway through the showerNancy had Priscilla and I stand
up.
What is she doing?
And it's an old Italian wivestale to rub the hands out of
(09:38):
pregnant woman's stomach, andthat is supposed to bring you
luck.
And that was the month.
After about two and a half yearsI got pregnant with Jason.
That's nice, yeah.
And so I have a little in thebook.
There's a picture of the littlethank you note that Elvis and I
want to thank you for the giftand the return address was
(10:01):
Memphis, handwritten, and Ithink back then it was like a
four cent stamp.
So that's kind of the start.
And then I did with NancySinatra.
Then she did a musical specialwhich was also her father, frank
D Martin, sammy Davis Jr.
(10:22):
So I was kind of in that littlerat pack then.
And then years later I'm doingOcean's 11 and Ocean's 12 with
the new rat pack.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Yes, that's right because it's on your CV.
You worked obviously withGeorge Clooney and Brad Pitt,
but you actually go back to theoriginal rat pack.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Amazing.
Yeah, I was the only one thaton the whole set, except for our
producer, Jerry Weidrop, thathad worked also with Elvis.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, so Elvis himself.
How did you find him as aperson or a personality?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Oh, so nice, so soft-spoken.
But he and all the buddies thathe always had around him, they
just always were playing jokesat each other.
They're just trying to see howthey could get the next one, but
thinking, oh, this is real.
(11:19):
So I came up with a couple ofjokes on Elvis, because they
didn't expect it for me at all.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Can you, can you give us an example?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Well, one of them most of his guys and he smoked
like a little cigar, like aTipperillo or a small cigar.
And so one day I said to himElvis, let me light your cigar.
And so one day I said to himElvis, let me light your cigar.
Well, I had one of those Zippolighters that you can add the
(11:53):
flame going up or down.
So I had it on the high flameand I went to it and afterwards
I thought oh, my God well, ifI'm going to blow it off his
pompadour, yeah, if I'm going toblow it off his pompadour, yeah
.
And then the other thing was hewas complaining about how dry
(12:13):
his hands were and around hiscuticles.
And so there's a product thatis used when you do a hair lace
wig, which is a fine nettingalong the face is you glue it
with the spirit gum.
That's invisible.
So one day I said to Elvis Isaid I got the best hand lotion
(12:39):
for you, or oil.
And so what I did is I rubbed myhands first in nice, smelling
lotion, because I knew he'salways on alert.
So what I said here, let megive you some of this.
And he said let me smell it.
So I let him smell my hand sohe could smell the perfume he
smelled.
And then I poured this glue andhe rubbed.
(13:03):
I said it's too much rub andrub it.
Well, his hands start stickingtogether.
So the makeup man came with therubbing alcohol and a denatured
alcohol to remove it.
And the next day when he cameto work he said I sat all night
in front of that TV picking outthat stuff out of my cuticles
(13:25):
and nails so we had a good timeyeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
So you work from start, everything from Elvis to
Kristen Stewart.
How do you adapt your approachwhen you work with different
personalities and time period?
How do you adapt to differentpeople?
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Well, it's just at the beginning.
You just kind of see if theyand the thing is, if they want
to talk a lot, if they want touse you as a psychiatrist and
you know cry, or if they youknow what their interests are or
they just might.
And everyone had a certain kindof music.
(14:08):
So usually in our makeuptrailer trailer after we were
out of the studios, then wealways had music going.
And if it was soft music, if itwas rock music, whoever we were
working with at the time kindof chose the music.
So it was a little rock andtrailer a lot of times.
(14:30):
But you know, you just kind oflike when you meet someone, if
they're very talkative or quiet,I just knew how to balance that
.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Yeah, so the hairstylist in some ways is the
confessor figure.
You know they can confess toyou that they might not to
others others, I mean.
What I find remarkable aboutyour career is you've worked,
you span that era from the endof the studio system right
through to, I think, um.
You finished up on the workingwith kirsten stewart on the the
(15:03):
twilight saga, um well, I aftertwilight I did uh.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Later I did with stu Kristen the Huntsman, but then I
had retired.
And then, a few years later,Jennifer Aniston, who I'd worked
with before and of course Iknew her through Brad in the
Oceans 11 and 12, because she'dcome to the set.
I ended up working with heragain and she called me and they
(15:34):
took me out of retirement.
I said okay, I'll come and doit.
So that was really my last joband it's called Dumplin' and
it's on, I think, Netflix.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
On Netflix.
So obviously it shows thetremendous trust and faith that
these stars have in you.
Literally, you were called outof retirement.
Jennifer Aniston phoned you upand said could you help her?
Can I take you back, though, toanother star from the classic
era, betty Davis, who you workbeside?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Yes, she and Robert Wagner were very, very close
friends and back in the sixtiesyou didn't see big movie stars
working on a TV series andRobert Wagner was doing it's
called it's takes a thief, andso he asked Betty, he said, hey,
come on and do a little spot,you know, on my film.
(16:31):
So so I, I did her and it wasvery easy and simple.
She's very, you know, not like,oh, fix this and oh, no, no,
let you know, it was just likeshe was into her acting and you
know her hair and makeup logs.
It was, you know.
Okay, he liked it, that wasfine.
(16:54):
So, uh, I just worked with heron on that, uh, tv series just
the ones, yeah, yeah so, andthen I worked with share too.
Back then he was, uh, yeah, shewas on, uh, one of the series
and was in disguise.
So that's what you had thatlong black hair down to her
(17:18):
waist and I had to disguise herin a blonde wig.
So I had to and these arethings that I learned and I
trained for was wrapping thathair, so it was so flat against
her head and it was evenlydistributed, so when the wig
(17:39):
went on, there wasn't a bulgehere, up here or back here, and
then I put the short blonde wigon her.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Share.
In a blonde wig there's athought yeah, so the changes
that you've seen must be immense.
You started in that classic era, or sort of really the tail end
of the old style studio system.
Then you took a break, I think,for about 14, 15 years, and
(18:10):
then returned to Hollywood, isthat?
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
well, I, I, we went from yeah, from uh la, to
indianapolis and I worked in ahigh-end beauty salon right.
And then in the 80s is when wewent to uh dallas, texas, and
found out they were filming.
They had texas at the time hada good tax incentive, was doing
(18:36):
a lot of filming, so I had noidea that I was going to get
back in the business.
And then I was working inDallas on several things for
more than a few years and sinceI'd started building up a
reputation and everything, myhusband and I decided to go back
(18:57):
to hollywood.
And then that's when I startedagain.
I feel like I almost startedover then in hollywood, but uh,
I was very fortunate to get acouple great films of great
directors or actors.
And then I lost my husband hewas just 55 years old with
cancer and uh, my career justtook off about a year, year and
(19:23):
a half after that and it wasnon-stop to see the world too
can I just ask you so?
Speaker 3 (19:30):
you have seen so many technological and cultural
shifts in this.
How do you feel the that hairstyling has changed when you
started in Perry Valvis?
How has it developed in youropinion?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Well, if you look back, even like any old movies
like Rita Hayworth, even in the40s and 50s, women hardly ever
changed their hair.
There might be a scene with anightgown and robe that their
hair might be down or something,but most of the time that hair
(20:04):
was like a helmet, the wholefilm.
So there were like when Iworked with Nancy Sinatra, we
had a fair amount of hairchanges.
Like when I worked with NancySinatra, we had a fair amount of
hair changes, but we didn'tlike Betty Davis.
I mean she had the same hair.
So I just found through theyears that's why I have in this
(20:33):
book thousands of continuitypictures, because if you watch a
lot of the movies today, you'llsee how the hair has changed.
It's down, it's up, it's over,it's got a hat, it doesn't have
a hat, and so we've seen a lotof changes, a lot of more work
too, in a way, and especiallythe continuity that's so
(20:54):
important.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Yeah, and also feeding on from that, how do you
think the wider industry haschanged?
I imagine it must be almostunrecognizable between the start
of your career and when youeventually finished up.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Yeah, and everything has gotten into most, most
things such a budget anymore andso little is being done in
Hollywood.
They're really really hurtingnow.
The other day and someone go toa breakfast and the proceeds of
(21:38):
that breakfast was going to payunion members their dues so
they could stay in the union.
So right now hollywood isreally really hurting for film
work in hollywood because theycan go other places and do it
less.
But of course for years they'vebeen going to other places just
(22:01):
because of the exterior scenery.
If it's you know, australia,they do a lot there.
I mean, I did a lot in evenCanada because the budget was
better there.
Plus for the script there werecertain scenes that were too
good in Canada.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
So obviously, one key factor in the changes is a lot
more travel.
You know, in the old days a lotof stuff would be shot on the
lots, presumably the studio lots, whereas today a lot of travel
and also, obviously, the declineof the studio system, or the
old style studio system, uh, mgmand so forth.
Now, of course, it's largecorporations like like sony,
(22:43):
disney, and increasingly thetech companies, uh like amazon,
that are coming in.
Um, so on the whole, um, Iguess you would.
Would you characterize it as anarrative of decline, or do you
think that there are advantagesnow that the old studio system
is no longer with us?
I mean, where do you fall onthat?
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Oh, I think, I think there's somewhat of a decline
and it's, I find, it sad for somany of the union people that
have families and everything.
It's really and you know thebudgets and there are, I mean, a
(23:26):
lot of actors, even themselves.
They're not getting the moneythat they used to, the money
that they used to and and Ithink with things moving, you
know, to Netflix and Amazon andall of them, that changes.
But as far as the old Hollywood, the, the class of it and the
(23:49):
hours, because, like when I waswell, any of the studios I
worked at Universal, warnerBrothers, but I was at MGM so
much that we filmed everythingon stage, the only thing.
We'd go to the back lot once ina while and film some exterior
(24:10):
things, but on Friday we werealways home, you know, even if
it was nine o'clock at teno'clock at night, where my last
job in uh, before uh, jenniferEdison, but I was with Hilary
Swank in Africa and we went towork at 10 in the morning and we
(24:32):
got home the following morningat six and uh and oliver stone,
we worked a 24-hour day.
One time we were ready to wrapand it was a next to the last
day of shooting and oliver gotthe whole crew together and said
, except for the technicians,everyone could go home or their
(24:56):
hotels or whatever, and thatcome back after so many hours
because they would be lightingand everything.
And then we would continue andthey would keep us on double and
triple time and mail, penaltiesand everything.
But then we put two days intoone and so it's.
(25:20):
You know, they're just tryingto get more and more you know
out of the workers.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Out of the workers.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Because of budgets.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Yeah, now Oliver Stone is somebody I wanted to
ask you a bit about and touch onyour work with directors as
well as actors.
Now you were in quite a lot ofOliver Stone pictures from Born
on the Fourth of July, jfk, anyGiven Sunday, heaven and Earth
some absolutely classic OliverStone movies.
(25:51):
But from that story it suggeststhat Oliver Stone's a little
bit of a taskmaster.
Is he a little bit of amilitary commander?
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Well, he's so brilliant and he knows what he
wants and he's a nice kind man,but you better get it right and
or else you know, you hear aboutit, but he carried on with so
(26:21):
many of the same crew throughouthis film, so it was kind of
family kind of like StevenSoderbergh.
I did several with Steven andit was just kind of family.
Everyone knew how to work, whatStephen was expecting out of us
, and same with Oliver.
But I think they're bothbrilliant directors and human
(26:46):
beings.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Can I ask you something, though?
You have worked with so manyamazing people and you've had
such an amazing contribution tothis film, but your name
yourself isn't in the spotlight,but your work is so
unforgettable.
How do you feel of being partin the invisible art of the film
?
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Oh fine, I mean it never affected me, or I've
thought much about it.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
I mean it never affected me or I've thought much
about it, so you wouldn't wantto be a star in yourself.
I mean, you must have seen somany stars.
I mean we all think about theglamour of Hollywood, but I
suspect also you know there's alot of people maybe don't want
to be in the spotlight all thetime, but of course when you're
a star you have to be 24-7 inthe spotlight.
(27:38):
I mean without obviously goinginto confidences with people
you've worked with.
I mean, have you seen thedownside of stardom and glamour?
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Well, yeah, I think a lot of it is.
When there's crowds, peoplehanging on automobiles and
limousines and you know thingslike that, it's like just almost
too much.
But yet I think most ofeveryone I've worked with
(28:12):
understand why they're therebecause of those people and the
ticket sales or whatever.
And I remember with KristenStewart and Rob Pattinson, we
would end up filming.
It was at this little studioand it was so cold and rainy
outside.
It was so cold and rainyoutside and we had fans down the
(28:36):
road this country road justlined up all day, and when they
got in the car to go back totown they had the driver stop
and get out of the car and signautographs for all these people
that were in the road all day.
(28:56):
And so they, they reallyappreciated it and so I found
you know people, most actors arevery kind about it.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Yeah, also within your book there are some lovely
still photos of, I guess, whatmust be the actors being kind to
you.
There's one image that stuck inmy mind of Brad Pitt seeming to
present you with a birthdaycake.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Yes, and Brad, it was my birthday and that film was
the Mr and Mrs Smith and we hada.
He gave me a birthday cake andbeautiful flowers and some gifts
and then when we went to theset after lunch, it was a scene
(29:44):
where there was kind of an oldballroom and band and the women
were dressed lovely and therewas women and men dancing this
beautiful music and he had theband play Happy Birthday and
sing.
Everyone sang Happy Birthday,like 150 people to me, oh wow.
(30:07):
So, yeah, and he's such a greatman and just such a giver.
I mean, if someone, if it was adriver or grip or anyone, and
he found out that there was somehealth problem at their house
or someone had got in anaccident or the mother was ill,
I mean he just had his assistantor what go over to that crew
(30:31):
member, and just that, Bradwants to do something.
You know, do you?
You know, whatever giftcertificates, the grocery store,
it didn't matter, but he wasalways aware of what was going
on around him and everyone was.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Fantastic, and of course, you worked with Brad on
the Oceans movies as well, whichalso starred George Clooney and
Julia Roberts.
I think you know Julia Robertsquite well.
You've worked on quite a numberof pictures with Julia Roberts.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (31:06):
I did 10 movies with Julia Wow, and we started on
Erin Brockovich and then wentthrough the Oceans 11, oceans 12
, all of those plus many inbetween, and I found, with her
and Hilary Swank, kristenStewart they all love to cook,
(31:37):
right mine, kristen Stewart,they all love to cook and so I
can't tell you the differenttimes in different countries we
were in and what we cooked andwhat we contributed to or
whatever.
It was fun because I love tocook myself.
So I was like the mama of thekids, kids showing them, or them
teaching me, some new recipesyeah, so um are you able to
(31:59):
reveal um what julia robertsfavorite food is?
Speaker 1 (32:02):
then?
Speaker 2 (32:04):
well, when, um, when I first started what I don't
think we think we were just inthe makeup trailer doing a
makeup hair test for ErinBrockovich Somehow it came up
that she loves sausage, biscuitsand gravy and so I, after
living in Texas and that youknow, I got pretty good at
(32:27):
making sausage, biscuits andgravy, and so there was a
certain time that I got to makeit and she fell in love with it.
So it became a thing that myreputation got around Hollywood
about my sausage, biscuits andgravy, and so we used to have a
(32:49):
couple of friends, had weddings,and then Julia had a wedding
and different things.
So my gift at these weddingswere the brunch the next day of
the sausage, biscuits and gravy,and the last time I was up to
107 biscuits and I think 20pounds of sausage or something,
(33:09):
and so there's uh in the book isthe recipe and uh, I've uh.
Whenever we went on location,we'd always have uh, her
refrigerator stocked with if itwas fruit, strawberries, but we
always had everything forsausage, biscuits, biscuits and
gravy.
So we're in Ocean's Eleven inLas Vegas and all the actors had
(33:35):
these darling little housesdown below the hotel and they're
called villas, and so oneSunday afternoon.
She said what are we going toeat tonight?
And I said I don't know.
She said, well, let's have thesausage, sausage, biscuits and
gravy.
I said for dinner.
I said that's a breakfast thing.
(33:57):
And she said, no, let's,because we're going to be
leaving soon and we've had it inthe fridge.
So I said well then, let'sorder a big fruit tray from the
hotel, something you know elsethat might coordinate with this.
And all of a sudden she's doingone thing, I'm doing another,
and the door knocks at her villaand it's Matt Damon.
(34:19):
He said boy, we all smell thissmell in the hallway.
It smells so good.
What is it?
He said well, make it sausagebits of gravy.
Well, before you knew it, atthe long dining room table I had
Clooney, I had Brad, I had MattDamon, I had Don Cheadle.
They were all there for it.
(34:39):
And then one time, when she wason, julia was on Oprah Oprah
kind of looks at her because youknow Julia's got such a
beautiful body.
And she said and I understand,you like sausage, biscuits and
gravy body.
And she said and I understand,you like sausage, biscuits and
gravy.
And julia says oh, yeah, myfriend bonnie makes the best.
So in fact, I just saw aninterview with brad on this f1
(35:02):
and the one of the guys he'stalking to the the guys from
england and he's got the englishaccent and talking about his
food and Brad says, oh, but haveyou ever had saucy, or have you
ever had?
He called it gravy and biscuits.
And this guy looks at him likewhat's that?
Brad says, oh, it's a goldenbiscuit.
(35:25):
And then there's gravy on top.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Oh, it is so delicious and but he didn't say
it was my recipe but I used tomake it for him when I did.
Yeah, well, you're right to saythat in the uk they don't
really so much know about that.
We we, charlotte and I knowabout it because we've spent a
little time in the us but um,but yeah, I guess the equivalent
(35:51):
of his breakfast would probablybe bacon, sausage and eggs or
something like that in the UK.
You know what they call a fullEnglish breakfast.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Right.
Can I take you back, though, toyour memoir, my more.
It's called A Continued LifeBeyond the Credits.
But what inspired you to writethis and what surprised you most
during the process?
Speaker 2 (36:19):
oh, bringing up, uh, just so many memories, I mean
actually some sad but yet youknow a lot of my past, just in
my upbringing and things thattranspired when I was younger
and so forth, but then, ofcourse, a lot of wonderful
(36:39):
memories and how I grew throughmy life and my thoughts of life
and people and everything.
So you know, it took me yearsback also.
Do you think that you want toget back sort of to Hollywood or
get back, no, no no, I think Imean Jason and I have other
(37:05):
ideas, and he's got somefabulous ideas for other other
projects and books.
But just because of my age too,I'm tired and I uh, you know I
don't have that energy eitherfor the hours, and because now
I've got so many things comingup and interviews and television
(37:27):
shows that, uh, I'm just tryingto save myself.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
Yes, yes, You're an amazing woman, but can I just
ask you a bit about what adviceI mean?
If a young person wanted to gointo Hollywood and become a
stylist, what advice would yougive a young person wishing to
go?
Into a career Well.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
I think it hasn't changed a whole lot.
They definitely have to havethe basic experience of working
in a salon and knowing uh andthen having to really study
period work and, for instance,like in part of our tests, we're
an Indian wig on a stuntman.
(38:12):
That would fall off a horse andthe thing is there's certain
hairpins in a certain directionthat you put them in so when
they fall those wouldn'tprotrude in the head, in the
(38:35):
head.
So there's all these littlethings that they'd have to
really learn by someone thatvery experienced, because and
there there are a few schoolsthey could go to and uh in
california that they could dothat too.
But it's a very slow, longprocess and uh, and you know
it's it's more difficult than itever was to break in um the um
(39:02):
I must.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Before we we close up this interview, I must um also
discuss with you one of myfavorite films that I see you've
worked on was Insomnia,directed by Christopher Nolan
and starring Al Pacino, and youwork beside Al Pacino, so I
guess an example of a methodactor rather than just a uh,
(39:27):
just yeah yeah, al is just likeone of the best.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Edward norton reminds me of somewhat of al also.
They're just I almost next tobeing geniuses and al would.
Uh, that's the first time I'dworked with Al and I did just Al
at Insomnia in Vancouver andthen later I did Any Given
(39:55):
Sunday and then I cut his hairfor certain things in Hollywood,
but he's one of the best actorsI've ever worked with.
I mean, without a doubt he's ontop of that list.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
I mean, without a doubt he's on top of that list,
but in terms of the preparationthat he does, when you were
styling him, was he in character, as it were, or is he just able
to switch on and off acharacter?
Speaker 2 (40:25):
No, he would kind of start not like the first thing
in the morning with the hair andmakeup as much, not like the
first thing in the morning withthe hair and makeup as much.
But after he'd get to the setyou could see him getting into
the groove and the move andeverything that he needed to do
(40:45):
in order to be as brilliant ashe is.
So, you know, kind of kept tohimself, you know that kind of
thing, and kept very quietwherever we were, if we were
outside or inside.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
Are there any particular hair styles you're
particularly proud of?
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Wow, I really succeeded with that one
succeeded with that one, or well, I think probably one was the
wig and I know it's getting alot of publicity for years is,
uh, those wedding scene forKristen Stewart.
(41:26):
I think that with the braid andthe bun and this, and that that
as publicly has gotten morethan anything I've ever seen.
But as far as continuity goes,julia and Erin Brockovich, I had
so many hairstyles, but notelegant, you know, but I mean
(41:50):
one day she's crying, one dayshe's working, one day she's
sweating, I mean, and then youknow she had to be in court or
she had to be in the office, andso there was just so many
different looks that I had withher, but they weren't fancy
looks, but it was the continuityof that show was probably one
(42:10):
of the biggest I did it looks,but it was.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
The continuity of that show was probably one of
the biggest.
I did amazing um and just um towrap up, because there's so
much that we could go into hereyeah, well, we can come back
someday too yeah, I think we'regoing to have to do part two
here.
But, um, somebody else, adirector that you've worked
beside I imagine that that moviemust have been quite an
experience is when you came backto Hollywood, you worked with
(42:34):
Paul Verhoeven on Robocop theoriginal Robocop.
Yes, verhoeven is quite acharacter.
Oh, I know.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
How did you find?
Speaker 1 (42:44):
him.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Oh, quite a character .
But that was out of Dallas whenI was in the 80s.
Right Then we went out ofDallas and I was in the 80s.
Right Then we went out ofDallas and then we did part of
it in Pennsylvania.
But I mean he knows what hewants, but I mean he's very
energetic, very outspoken, butgood at what he does.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Yeah, well, he makes these terrific satires and
robocop the original robocop iscertainly certainly one of them.
Um, but you know he's got areal cult reputation um, with
movies like robocop and thenlater, of course, um showgirls
and uh, and basic instinct.
Well, look um bonnie, it's beenabsolutely terrific um talking.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
Oh, my pleasure just going to ask you to everyone.
We have one question one morequestion sure, go ahead.
So if you go back and give onepiece to your younger self,
particularly when you're 21 orwhat, what would you have said
if you, if you met your 21 yearold self?
Piece of advice for the future.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Maybe not be so hard on yourself.
I think.
Take everything a littlelighter and not quite so serious
, Because at the beginningnaturally it was wonderful and
that, but I was sweating.
(44:14):
Every day I went to work andhoping that I'd please not just
the actor but the director andthe producers and you know, it
wasn't just one person andgetting along in the makeup
trailer with new hairdressersand new makeup artists, and so I
think, just take more deepbreaths.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
That's lovely advice and great, great advice to end
on Well, thanks ever so much,bonnie.
I'm sure this book ContinuityLife Beyond the Credits is going
to fly off the proverbialbookshelves or online bookstores
, if nothing else, not just forall these wonderful stories
about the stars, but hey, foryour recipe for sausage,
(44:58):
biscuits and gravy.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
I know that's in there.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
So good luck with it.
And how can?
If they want to find out more,they can buy your book, but how
else can they get in touch?
Speaker 2 (45:11):
You said you had a website and well, if they go use
my name and then go on imdb,that's the movie uh database,
and so they just put my name andthen they can see everything
I've done.
It's just a whole list ofeverything.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
Great Well.
Thanks ever so much, bonnie.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Oh well, thank you for inviting me.
Speaker 3 (45:38):
A pleasure and all the best with your forthcoming
memoir Okay, okay, thank you,thank you.
Hot lights fade, the curtains rise, new stories
waiting behind our eyes,charlotte and John with the
final say, breaking down thescreens in their own way.
(00:21):
This is the Final Cut, wherethe real reviews.
Well, hello there, welcome toanother Final Cut podcast, and
this week it's absolutely nocliche to say that we've got the
hairstylist to the stars withus.
This is another one of ourreally interesting podcasts
(00:43):
featuring people who've workedin or around Hollywood, and
today I'm delighted to welcomeBonnie Clevering, who has had a
career spanning over 50 years,starting with the tail end of
the Hollywood studio era andtaking us right up to the
present day.
She's worked in over 120productions in the hair or
(01:06):
makeup department hair stylist,and her list of actors that
she's worked with is stellarEverybody from, would you
believe, elvis Presley and BettyDavis in the 60s right through
to names that are householdnames today, like Brad Pitt,
(01:28):
julia Roberts, keanu Reeves,hillary Swank, al Pacino,
jennifer Aniston.
Not only that, but she's alsoworked with some of the most
distinguished directors inHollywood, names as multifarious
as Paul Verhoeven, oliver Stonewho she's worked with in
(01:48):
numerous pictures, including JFKand Born on the Fourth of July
Brian de Palma.
Also Steven Soderbergh.
So this is a lady with anabsolute stellar set of credits
and since 2001, she's been amember of the Academy of Arts
and Motion Picture Sciences ie,the people that give out the
(02:10):
Oscars.
So I'm delighted to welcomeBonnie here today, and in
September, you can read allabout her history in Hollywood.
She's got a new memoir outcalled Continuity Life Beyond
the Credits, co-written with herson, jason, and this is going
to be published via PunctuatePress and will be available to
(02:33):
order online.
So, bonnie, without further ado, it's an absolute delight to
welcome you.
Welcome to Final Cut Podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Welcome.
Oh, I'm so pleased to be here.
Thanks for inviting me.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Thank you, and you can see you're actually holding
up your book there.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
A lovely gold-colored copy by the looks of it.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yes, very heavy Hundreds and hundreds of
pictures of all kinds of things.
Wow, yeah, it goes on and on.
Amazing.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
So people can order this online, I believe.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yes, as you said.
Yes, they can, and it's even bycontinuity by
bonniecleveringcom.
So yeah, and then they'll haveit in September.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Great stuff.
Well, as a sort of taster foractually people buying and
reading that extensive memoir,let us try and take you through
some of the highlights of yourcareer.
No pun intended when we'retalking about hairstyling.
So can I take you right the wayback?
You weren't born in Hollywood.
(03:44):
I think you came to Hollywood,didn't you?
Can you maybe explain to us howyou first got into the movie
business?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
I went to Hollywood in 1964, and I had a hairstyling
license in the state of Florida.
So I knew when I went toHollywood I would work at a
beauty salon and have to get aCalifornia state license.
And so when we first we werenewly married and when we got
(04:16):
there I started looking atsalons.
And then there's a gentlemanthat lived in the apartment
complex we did, and he said whydon't you try to see about
getting in the studios as ahairstylist?
And I thought, yeah, everyhairdresser's dream to do movie
stars.
Well, he kept pushing me so Iwent ahead and I met Carmen
(04:40):
Dorigo, who was the headhairdresser back then on
Petticoat Junction and theBeverly Hillbillies, and so I
met her and she took such aliking she referred me to the
head hairdresser at 20th CenturyFox and so I got my state
(05:01):
license and then at thebeginning I just worked on big
movies where I just worked onextras, because I didn't have
the experience nights of justshowing how to apply an Indian
wig, a toupee, a period wig, allkinds of hairstyling tools to
(05:33):
use.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
So to clarify for our viewers so what does a
hairstylist do on the set?
I mean, I believe questionslike continuity is very
important.
What is actually the role of ahairstylist?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Well, now we have a makeup trailer where at the very
beginning, we always did ouractors in a studio and then go
to the stage.
But basically the last many,many years, you have a makeup
trailer that consists of makeupand hairstylist and then the
(06:10):
actor comes in and, depending onif their hair is wet or if they
don't have to have a lot ofhair, they'll go to makeup first
, but usually they'll come tohair first, because either I
have to wrap their head properlyto apply a wig later on in the
morning and they go to makeupand then they come back to hair,
(06:32):
or, if it's a hairstylist thata hairstyle that really needs
last minute work, they'll evengo and get their wardrobe on,
come back to the makeup trailer,finish their hair and then we
go to the set and then where thecontinuity comes in is after
every scene.
(06:53):
I take pictures and we usePolaroid film for many years and
then mark the Polaroid with thescene number and the day of the
script, and then we'd keepthose because it might be where
Julia Roberts is outside.
We're filming in the rain orthe snow, and then she walks up
(07:14):
to the door and it might be twomonths later.
We filmed the interior.
So that's why I have to takethe front, each side in the back
of the hairstyle for everyscene, because I have to match
that when she walks in theliving room or wherever she's
walking into days or monthslater, and so that that's where
(07:37):
the continuity, you know, comesin, and that's part of the
continuity of life, too that Iwrite about in my book.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Yes, yes.
Well, we would be remiss if wedidn't touch on some of these
major stars that you worked within the early years of your
career.
Elvis Presley how did you cometo work with him and how did you
find him as a star, both as astar and as a person?
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Well, I was working at MGM Studios and I had just
finished a series with RobertWagner and Stephanie Powers
called the Girl from Uncle andthe man from Uncle from uncle,
(08:30):
and uh, and so that was up andthen by the head of the
department assigned me it wasmore or less assigning me to the
speedway the presley sinatramovie, and uh.
So I was in charge of nancy andthen touching up or watching
Elvis, because the makeup manwas the one that actually did
(08:50):
his hair in the morning, but alot of the men just did their
hair at home and then we wouldjust watch it during.
But what was one of the mostexciting things during the
filming, priscilla Presley waspregnant with Lisa Marie and
Nancy Sinatra gave Priscilla ababy shower and invited me up to
(09:15):
her home and there were justmaybe 12 women there and I at
the time had an infertilityproblem and had a lot of
miscarriages.
So halfway through the showerNancy had Priscilla and I stand
up.
What is she doing?
And it's an old Italian wivestale to rub the hands out of
(09:38):
pregnant woman's stomach, andthat is supposed to bring you
luck.
And that was the month.
After about two and a half yearsI got pregnant with Jason.
That's nice, yeah.
And so I have a little in thebook.
There's a picture of the littlethank you note that Elvis and I
want to thank you for the giftand the return address was
(10:01):
Memphis, handwritten, and Ithink back then it was like a
four cent stamp.
So that's kind of the start.
And then I did with NancySinatra.
Then she did a musical specialwhich was also her father, frank
D Martin, sammy Davis Jr.
(10:22):
So I was kind of in that littlerat pack then.
And then years later I'm doingOcean's 11 and Ocean's 12 with
the new rat pack.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Yes, that's right because it's on your CV.
You worked obviously withGeorge Clooney and Brad Pitt,
but you actually go back to theoriginal rat pack.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Amazing.
Yeah, I was the only one thaton the whole set, except for our
producer, Jerry Weidrop, thathad worked also with Elvis.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, so Elvis himself.
How did you find him as aperson or a personality?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Oh, so nice, so soft-spoken.
But he and all the buddies thathe always had around him, they
just always were playing jokesat each other.
They're just trying to see howthey could get the next one, but
thinking, oh, this is real.
(11:19):
So I came up with a couple ofjokes on Elvis, because they
didn't expect it for me at all.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Can you, can you give us an example?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Well, one of them most of his guys and he smoked
like a little cigar, like aTipperillo or a small cigar.
And so one day I said to himElvis, let me light your cigar.
And so one day I said to himElvis, let me light your cigar.
Well, I had one of those Zippolighters that you can add the
(11:53):
flame going up or down.
So I had it on the high flameand I went to it and afterwards
I thought oh, my God well, ifI'm going to blow it off his
pompadour, yeah, if I'm going toblow it off his pompadour, yeah
.
And then the other thing was hewas complaining about how dry
(12:13):
his hands were and around hiscuticles.
And so there's a product thatis used when you do a hair lace
wig, which is a fine nettingalong the face is you glue it
with the spirit gum.
That's invisible.
So one day I said to Elvis Isaid I got the best hand lotion
(12:39):
for you, or oil.
And so what I did is I rubbed myhands first in nice, smelling
lotion, because I knew he'salways on alert.
So what I said here, let megive you some of this.
And he said let me smell it.
So I let him smell my hand sohe could smell the perfume he
smelled.
And then I poured this glue andhe rubbed.
(13:03):
I said it's too much rub andrub it.
Well, his hands start stickingtogether.
So the makeup man came with therubbing alcohol and a denatured
alcohol to remove it.
And the next day when he cameto work he said I sat all night
in front of that TV picking outthat stuff out of my cuticles
(13:25):
and nails so we had a good timeyeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
So you work from start, everything from Elvis to
Kristen Stewart.
How do you adapt your approachwhen you work with different
personalities and time period?
How do you adapt to differentpeople?
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Well, it's just at the beginning.
You just kind of see if theyand the thing is, if they want
to talk a lot, if they want touse you as a psychiatrist and
you know cry, or if they youknow what their interests are or
they just might.
And everyone had a certain kindof music.
(14:08):
So usually in our makeuptrailer trailer after we were
out of the studios, then wealways had music going.
And if it was soft music, if itwas rock music, whoever we were
working with at the time kindof chose the music.
So it was a little rock andtrailer a lot of times.
(14:30):
But you know, you just kind oflike when you meet someone, if
they're very talkative or quiet,I just knew how to balance that
.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Yeah, so the hairstylist in some ways is the
confessor figure.
You know they can confess toyou that they might not to
others others, I mean.
What I find remarkable aboutyour career is you've worked,
you span that era from the endof the studio system right
through to, I think, um.
You finished up on the workingwith kirsten stewart on the the
(15:03):
twilight saga, um well, I aftertwilight I did uh.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Later I did with stu Kristen the Huntsman, but then I
had retired.
And then, a few years later,Jennifer Aniston, who I'd worked
with before and of course Iknew her through Brad in the
Oceans 11 and 12, because she'dcome to the set.
I ended up working with heragain and she called me and they
(15:34):
took me out of retirement.
I said okay, I'll come and doit.
So that was really my last joband it's called Dumplin' and
it's on, I think, Netflix.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
On Netflix.
So obviously it shows thetremendous trust and faith that
these stars have in you.
Literally, you were called outof retirement.
Jennifer Aniston phoned you upand said could you help her?
Can I take you back, though, toanother star from the classic
era, betty Davis, who you workbeside?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Yes, she and Robert Wagner were very, very close
friends and back in the sixtiesyou didn't see big movie stars
working on a TV series andRobert Wagner was doing it's
called it's takes a thief, andso he asked Betty, he said, hey,
come on and do a little spot,you know, on my film.
(16:31):
So so I, I did her and it wasvery easy and simple.
She's very, you know, not like,oh, fix this and oh, no, no,
let you know, it was just likeshe was into her acting and you
know her hair and makeup logs.
It was, you know.
Okay, he liked it, that wasfine.
(16:54):
So, uh, I just worked with heron on that, uh, tv series just
the ones, yeah, yeah so, andthen I worked with share too.
Back then he was, uh, yeah, shewas on, uh, one of the series
and was in disguise.
So that's what you had thatlong black hair down to her
(17:18):
waist and I had to disguise herin a blonde wig.
So I had to and these arethings that I learned and I
trained for was wrapping thathair, so it was so flat against
her head and it was evenlydistributed, so when the wig
(17:39):
went on, there wasn't a bulgehere, up here or back here, and
then I put the short blonde wigon her.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Share.
In a blonde wig there's athought yeah, so the changes
that you've seen must be immense.
You started in that classic era, or sort of really the tail end
of the old style studio system.
Then you took a break, I think,for about 14, 15 years, and
(18:10):
then returned to Hollywood, isthat?
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
well, I, I, we went from yeah, from uh la, to
indianapolis and I worked in ahigh-end beauty salon right.
And then in the 80s is when wewent to uh dallas, texas, and
found out they were filming.
They had texas at the time hada good tax incentive, was doing
(18:36):
a lot of filming, so I had noidea that I was going to get
back in the business.
And then I was working inDallas on several things for
more than a few years and sinceI'd started building up a
reputation and everything, myhusband and I decided to go back
(18:57):
to hollywood.
And then that's when I startedagain.
I feel like I almost startedover then in hollywood, but uh,
I was very fortunate to get acouple great films of great
directors or actors.
And then I lost my husband hewas just 55 years old with
cancer and uh, my career justtook off about a year, year and
(19:23):
a half after that and it wasnon-stop to see the world too
can I just ask you so?
Speaker 3 (19:30):
you have seen so many technological and cultural
shifts in this.
How do you feel the that hairstyling has changed when you
started in Perry Valvis?
How has it developed in youropinion?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Well, if you look back, even like any old movies
like Rita Hayworth, even in the40s and 50s, women hardly ever
changed their hair.
There might be a scene with anightgown and robe that their
hair might be down or something,but most of the time that hair
(20:04):
was like a helmet, the wholefilm.
So there were like when Iworked with Nancy Sinatra, we
had a fair amount of hairchanges.
Like when I worked with NancySinatra, we had a fair amount of
hair changes, but we didn'tlike Betty Davis.
I mean she had the same hair.
So I just found through theyears that's why I have in this
(20:33):
book thousands of continuitypictures, because if you watch a
lot of the movies today, you'llsee how the hair has changed.
It's down, it's up, it's over,it's got a hat, it doesn't have
a hat, and so we've seen a lotof changes, a lot of more work
too, in a way, and especiallythe continuity that's so
(20:54):
important.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Yeah, and also feeding on from that, how do you
think the wider industry haschanged?
I imagine it must be almostunrecognizable between the start
of your career and when youeventually finished up.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Yeah, and everything has gotten into most, most
things such a budget anymore andso little is being done in
Hollywood.
They're really really hurtingnow.
The other day and someone go toa breakfast and the proceeds of
(21:38):
that breakfast was going to payunion members their dues so
they could stay in the union.
So right now hollywood isreally really hurting for film
work in hollywood because theycan go other places and do it
less.
But of course for years they'vebeen going to other places just
(22:01):
because of the exterior scenery.
If it's you know, australia,they do a lot there.
I mean, I did a lot in evenCanada because the budget was
better there.
Plus for the script there werecertain scenes that were too
good in Canada.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
So obviously, one key factor in the changes is a lot
more travel.
You know, in the old days a lotof stuff would be shot on the
lots, presumably the studio lots, whereas today a lot of travel
and also, obviously, the declineof the studio system, or the
old style studio system, uh, mgmand so forth.
Now, of course, it's largecorporations like like sony,
(22:43):
disney, and increasingly thetech companies, uh like amazon,
that are coming in.
Um, so on the whole, um, Iguess you would.
Would you characterize it as anarrative of decline, or do you
think that there are advantagesnow that the old studio system
is no longer with us?
I mean, where do you fall onthat?
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Oh, I think, I think there's somewhat of a decline
and it's, I find, it sad for somany of the union people that
have families and everything.
It's really and you know thebudgets and there are, I mean, a
(23:26):
lot of actors, even themselves.
They're not getting the moneythat they used to, the money
that they used to and and Ithink with things moving, you
know, to Netflix and Amazon andall of them, that changes.
But as far as the old Hollywood, the, the class of it and the
(23:49):
hours, because, like when I waswell, any of the studios I
worked at Universal, warnerBrothers, but I was at MGM so
much that we filmed everythingon stage, the only thing.
We'd go to the back lot once ina while and film some exterior
(24:10):
things, but on Friday we werealways home, you know, even if
it was nine o'clock at teno'clock at night, where my last
job in uh, before uh, jenniferEdison, but I was with Hilary
Swank in Africa and we went towork at 10 in the morning and we
(24:32):
got home the following morningat six and uh and oliver stone,
we worked a 24-hour day.
One time we were ready to wrapand it was a next to the last
day of shooting and oliver gotthe whole crew together and said
, except for the technicians,everyone could go home or their
(24:56):
hotels or whatever, and thatcome back after so many hours
because they would be lightingand everything.
And then we would continue andthey would keep us on double and
triple time and mail, penaltiesand everything.
But then we put two days intoone and so it's.
(25:20):
You know, they're just tryingto get more and more you know
out of the workers.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Out of the workers.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Because of budgets.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Yeah, now Oliver Stone is somebody I wanted to
ask you a bit about and touch onyour work with directors as
well as actors.
Now you were in quite a lot ofOliver Stone pictures from Born
on the Fourth of July, jfk, anyGiven Sunday, heaven and Earth
some absolutely classic OliverStone movies.
(25:51):
But from that story it suggeststhat Oliver Stone's a little
bit of a taskmaster.
Is he a little bit of amilitary commander?
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Well, he's so brilliant and he knows what he
wants and he's a nice kind man,but you better get it right and
or else you know, you hear aboutit, but he carried on with so
(26:21):
many of the same crew throughouthis film, so it was kind of
family kind of like StevenSoderbergh.
I did several with Steven andit was just kind of family.
Everyone knew how to work, whatStephen was expecting out of us
, and same with Oliver.
But I think they're bothbrilliant directors and human
(26:46):
beings.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Can I ask you something, though?
You have worked with so manyamazing people and you've had
such an amazing contribution tothis film, but your name
yourself isn't in the spotlight,but your work is so
unforgettable.
How do you feel of being partin the invisible art of the film
?
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Oh fine, I mean it never affected me, or I've
thought much about it.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
I mean it never affected me or I've thought much
about it, so you wouldn't wantto be a star in yourself.
I mean, you must have seen somany stars.
I mean we all think about theglamour of Hollywood, but I
suspect also you know there's alot of people maybe don't want
to be in the spotlight all thetime, but of course when you're
a star you have to be 24-7 inthe spotlight.
(27:38):
I mean without obviously goinginto confidences with people
you've worked with.
I mean, have you seen thedownside of stardom and glamour?
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Well, yeah, I think a lot of it is.
When there's crowds, peoplehanging on automobiles and
limousines and you know thingslike that, it's like just almost
too much.
But yet I think most ofeveryone I've worked with
(28:12):
understand why they're therebecause of those people and the
ticket sales or whatever.
And I remember with KristenStewart and Rob Pattinson, we
would end up filming.
It was at this little studioand it was so cold and rainy
outside.
It was so cold and rainyoutside and we had fans down the
(28:36):
road this country road justlined up all day, and when they
got in the car to go back totown they had the driver stop
and get out of the car and signautographs for all these people
that were in the road all day.
(28:56):
And so they, they reallyappreciated it and so I found
you know people, most actors arevery kind about it.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Yeah, also within your book there are some lovely
still photos of, I guess, whatmust be the actors being kind to
you.
There's one image that stuck inmy mind of Brad Pitt seeming to
present you with a birthdaycake.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Yes, and Brad, it was my birthday and that film was
the Mr and Mrs Smith and we hada.
He gave me a birthday cake andbeautiful flowers and some gifts
and then when we went to theset after lunch, it was a scene
(29:44):
where there was kind of an oldballroom and band and the women
were dressed lovely and therewas women and men dancing this
beautiful music and he had theband play Happy Birthday and
sing.
Everyone sang Happy Birthday,like 150 people to me, oh wow.
(30:07):
So, yeah, and he's such a greatman and just such a giver.
I mean, if someone, if it was adriver or grip or anyone, and
he found out that there was somehealth problem at their house
or someone had got in anaccident or the mother was ill,
I mean he just had his assistantor what go over to that crew
(30:31):
member, and just that, Bradwants to do something.
You know, do you?
You know, whatever giftcertificates, the grocery store,
it didn't matter, but he wasalways aware of what was going
on around him and everyone was.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Fantastic, and of course, you worked with Brad on
the Oceans movies as well, whichalso starred George Clooney and
Julia Roberts.
I think you know Julia Robertsquite well.
You've worked on quite a numberof pictures with Julia Roberts.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (31:06):
I did 10 movies with Julia Wow, and we started on
Erin Brockovich and then wentthrough the Oceans 11, oceans 12
, all of those plus many inbetween, and I found, with her
and Hilary Swank, kristenStewart they all love to cook,
(31:37):
right mine, kristen Stewart,they all love to cook and so I
can't tell you the differenttimes in different countries we
were in and what we cooked andwhat we contributed to or
whatever.
It was fun because I love tocook myself.
So I was like the mama of thekids, kids showing them, or them
teaching me, some new recipesyeah, so um are you able to
(31:59):
reveal um what julia robertsfavorite food is?
Speaker 1 (32:02):
then?
Speaker 2 (32:04):
well, when, um, when I first started what I don't
think we think we were just inthe makeup trailer doing a
makeup hair test for ErinBrockovich Somehow it came up
that she loves sausage, biscuitsand gravy and so I, after
living in Texas and that youknow, I got pretty good at
(32:27):
making sausage, biscuits andgravy, and so there was a
certain time that I got to makeit and she fell in love with it.
So it became a thing that myreputation got around Hollywood
about my sausage, biscuits andgravy, and so we used to have a
(32:49):
couple of friends, had weddings,and then Julia had a wedding
and different things.
So my gift at these weddingswere the brunch the next day of
the sausage, biscuits and gravy,and the last time I was up to
107 biscuits and I think 20pounds of sausage or something,
(33:09):
and so there's uh in the book isthe recipe and uh, I've uh.
Whenever we went on location,we'd always have uh, her
refrigerator stocked with if itwas fruit, strawberries, but we
always had everything forsausage, biscuits, biscuits and
gravy.
So we're in Ocean's Eleven inLas Vegas and all the actors had
(33:35):
these darling little housesdown below the hotel and they're
called villas, and so oneSunday afternoon.
She said what are we going toeat tonight?
And I said I don't know.
She said, well, let's have thesausage, sausage, biscuits and
gravy.
I said for dinner.
I said that's a breakfast thing.
(33:57):
And she said, no, let's,because we're going to be
leaving soon and we've had it inthe fridge.
So I said well then, let'sorder a big fruit tray from the
hotel, something you know elsethat might coordinate with this.
And all of a sudden she's doingone thing, I'm doing another,
and the door knocks at her villaand it's Matt Damon.
(34:19):
He said boy, we all smell thissmell in the hallway.
It smells so good.
What is it?
He said well, make it sausagebits of gravy.
Well, before you knew it, atthe long dining room table I had
Clooney, I had Brad, I had MattDamon, I had Don Cheadle.
They were all there for it.
(34:39):
And then one time, when she wason, julia was on Oprah Oprah
kind of looks at her because youknow Julia's got such a
beautiful body.
And she said and I understand,you like sausage, biscuits and
gravy body.
And she said and I understand,you like sausage, biscuits and
gravy.
And julia says oh, yeah, myfriend bonnie makes the best.
So in fact, I just saw aninterview with brad on this f1
(35:02):
and the one of the guys he'stalking to the the guys from
england and he's got the englishaccent and talking about his
food and Brad says, oh, but haveyou ever had saucy, or have you
ever had?
He called it gravy and biscuits.
And this guy looks at him likewhat's that?
Brad says, oh, it's a goldenbiscuit.
(35:25):
And then there's gravy on top.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Oh, it is so delicious and but he didn't say
it was my recipe but I used tomake it for him when I did.
Yeah, well, you're right to saythat in the uk they don't
really so much know about that.
We we, charlotte and I knowabout it because we've spent a
little time in the us but um,but yeah, I guess the equivalent
(35:51):
of his breakfast would probablybe bacon, sausage and eggs or
something like that in the UK.
You know what they call a fullEnglish breakfast.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Right.
Can I take you back, though, toyour memoir, my more.
It's called A Continued LifeBeyond the Credits.
But what inspired you to writethis and what surprised you most
during the process?
Speaker 2 (36:19):
oh, bringing up, uh, just so many memories, I mean
actually some sad but yet youknow a lot of my past, just in
my upbringing and things thattranspired when I was younger
and so forth, but then, ofcourse, a lot of wonderful
(36:39):
memories and how I grew throughmy life and my thoughts of life
and people and everything.
So you know, it took me yearsback also.
Do you think that you want toget back sort of to Hollywood or
get back, no, no no, I think Imean Jason and I have other
(37:05):
ideas, and he's got somefabulous ideas for other other
projects and books.
But just because of my age too,I'm tired and I uh, you know I
don't have that energy eitherfor the hours, and because now
I've got so many things comingup and interviews and television
(37:27):
shows that, uh, I'm just tryingto save myself.
Speaker 3 (37:30):
Yes, yes, You're an amazing woman, but can I just
ask you a bit about what adviceI mean?
If a young person wanted to gointo Hollywood and become a
stylist, what advice would yougive a young person wishing to
go?
Into a career Well.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
I think it hasn't changed a whole lot.
They definitely have to havethe basic experience of working
in a salon and knowing uh andthen having to really study
period work and, for instance,like in part of our tests, we're
an Indian wig on a stuntman.
(38:12):
That would fall off a horse andthe thing is there's certain
hairpins in a certain directionthat you put them in so when
they fall those wouldn'tprotrude in the head, in the
(38:35):
head.
So there's all these littlethings that they'd have to
really learn by someone thatvery experienced, because and
there there are a few schoolsthey could go to and uh in
california that they could dothat too.
But it's a very slow, longprocess and uh, and you know
it's it's more difficult than itever was to break in um the um
(39:02):
I must.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Before we we close up this interview, I must um also
discuss with you one of myfavorite films that I see you've
worked on was Insomnia,directed by Christopher Nolan
and starring Al Pacino, and youwork beside Al Pacino, so I
guess an example of a methodactor rather than just a uh,
(39:27):
just yeah yeah, al is just likeone of the best.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Edward norton reminds me of somewhat of al also.
They're just I almost next tobeing geniuses and al would.
Uh, that's the first time I'dworked with Al and I did just Al
at Insomnia in Vancouver andthen later I did Any Given
(39:55):
Sunday and then I cut his hairfor certain things in Hollywood,
but he's one of the best actorsI've ever worked with.
I mean, without a doubt he's ontop of that list.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
I mean, without a doubt he's on top of that list,
but in terms of the preparationthat he does, when you were
styling him, was he in character, as it were, or is he just able
to switch on and off acharacter?
Speaker 2 (40:25):
No, he would kind of start not like the first thing
in the morning with the hair andmakeup as much, not like the
first thing in the morning withthe hair and makeup as much.
But after he'd get to the setyou could see him getting into
the groove and the move andeverything that he needed to do
(40:45):
in order to be as brilliant ashe is.
So, you know, kind of kept tohimself, you know that kind of
thing, and kept very quietwherever we were, if we were
outside or inside.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
Are there any particular hair styles you're
particularly proud of?
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Wow, I really succeeded with that one
succeeded with that one, or well, I think probably one was the
wig and I know it's getting alot of publicity for years is,
uh, those wedding scene forKristen Stewart.
(41:26):
I think that with the braid andthe bun and this, and that that
as publicly has gotten morethan anything I've ever seen.
But as far as continuity goes,julia and Erin Brockovich, I had
so many hairstyles, but notelegant, you know, but I mean
(41:50):
one day she's crying, one dayshe's working, one day she's
sweating, I mean, and then youknow she had to be in court or
she had to be in the office, andso there was just so many
different looks that I had withher, but they weren't fancy
looks, but it was the continuityof that show was probably one
(42:10):
of the biggest I did it looks,but it was.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
The continuity of that show was probably one of
the biggest.
I did amazing um and just um towrap up, because there's so
much that we could go into hereyeah, well, we can come back
someday too yeah, I think we'regoing to have to do part two
here.
But, um, somebody else, adirector that you've worked
beside I imagine that that moviemust have been quite an
experience is when you came backto Hollywood, you worked with
(42:34):
Paul Verhoeven on Robocop theoriginal Robocop.
Yes, verhoeven is quite acharacter.
Oh, I know.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
How did you find?
Speaker 1 (42:44):
him.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Oh, quite a character .
But that was out of Dallas whenI was in the 80s.
Right Then we went out ofDallas and I was in the 80s.
Right Then we went out ofDallas and then we did part of
it in Pennsylvania.
But I mean he knows what hewants, but I mean he's very
energetic, very outspoken, butgood at what he does.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Yeah, well, he makes these terrific satires and
robocop the original robocop iscertainly certainly one of them.
Um, but you know he's got areal cult reputation um, with
movies like robocop and thenlater, of course, um showgirls
and uh, and basic instinct.
Well, look um bonnie, it's beenabsolutely terrific um talking.
Speaker 3 (43:31):
Oh, my pleasure just going to ask you to everyone.
We have one question one morequestion sure, go ahead.
So if you go back and give onepiece to your younger self,
particularly when you're 21 orwhat, what would you have said
if you, if you met your 21 yearold self?
Piece of advice for the future.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Maybe not be so hard on yourself.
I think.
Take everything a littlelighter and not quite so serious
, Because at the beginningnaturally it was wonderful and
that, but I was sweating.
(44:14):
Every day I went to work andhoping that I'd please not just
the actor but the director andthe producers and you know, it
wasn't just one person andgetting along in the makeup
trailer with new hairdressersand new makeup artists, and so I
think, just take more deepbreaths.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
That's lovely advice and great, great advice to end
on Well, thanks ever so much,bonnie.
I'm sure this book ContinuityLife Beyond the Credits is going
to fly off the proverbialbookshelves or online bookstores
, if nothing else, not just forall these wonderful stories
about the stars, but hey, foryour recipe for sausage,
(44:58):
biscuits and gravy.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
I know that's in there.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
So good luck with it.
And how can?
If they want to find out more,they can buy your book, but how
else can they get in touch?
Speaker 2 (45:11):
You said you had a website and well, if they go use
my name and then go on imdb,that's the movie uh database,
and so they just put my name andthen they can see everything
I've done.
It's just a whole list ofeverything.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
Great Well.
Thanks ever so much, bonnie.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Oh well, thank you for inviting me.
Speaker 3 (45:38):
A pleasure and all the best with your forthcoming
memoir Okay, okay, thank you,thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.