November 26, 2025 • 17 mins
Black Friday isn’t just a retail circus. It’s a masterclass in consumer psychology—and a perfect window into how people think about value. In this episode of The Financial Huddle, Ed, Ryan, and Brian break down the real lessons hidden inside the biggest shopping event of the year and translate them directly into smart financial strategy.
They open with the cultural shift around Black Friday, the rise of online shopping (nearly $11 billion in U.S. online sales last year alone), the explosive growth of the Cyber Five, and how Americans now average roughly $650 in Black Friday spending. From chaotic door busters to mobile-driven purchases, the trio explores the behavioral trends that drive this annual frenzy.
Instead of chasing retail “deals,” the hosts highlight the actual financial bargains most people overlook:
• Taxes at historic lows and why after-tax contributions to Roth IRAs, Roth 401(k)s, and Roth 403(b)s may be one of the best long-term opportunities available today.
• Roth conversions as a strategic move to eliminate future tax risk and avoid painful RMDs.
• Triple-benefit strategies including HSAs and properly structured cash-value life insurance.
• The overlooked “BOGO” of finance: employer 401(k)/403(b) matches—free money most workers never fully capture.
• The real Black Friday of investing: buying during market downturns, staying invested, and avoiding the catastrophic mistake of missing the market’s biggest recovery days.
• Dollar-cost averaging as the long-term antidote to emotional decision-making.
The episode closes by reframing the season: instead of focusing solely on spending, this is the moment to reassess savings habits, tax planning, employer benefits, and investment opportunities. The message is simple: don’t leave money—or long-term upside—on the table.
Clear, grounded, and packed with straightforward strategies, this episode helps listeners translate Black Friday psychology into smarter financial decisions all year long.
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Disclosure: Information contained in this podcast is for entertainment and informational purposes only, and should not be considered as financial advice. Financial Planning and Advisory Services are offered through Prosperity Capital Advisors (“PCA”), an SEC registered investment adviser. Registration as an investment adviser does not imply a certain level of skill or training. Keystone Financial Group and PCA are separate, non- affiliated entities. PCA does not provide tax or legal advice.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Announcer (00:00):
The financial huddle does not provide tax, legal,
financial, or other professionaladvice.
Listeners are encouraged toconsult with their own advisors
in these areas.
All right, everybody, huddleup.
Brian Minier (00:08):
Play calls in.
This is the Financial Huddle.
Ready.
Ed Beemiller (00:14):
Welcome back, Huddler Nation, to our next
episode of the Financial HuddlePodcast.
As usual, I'm joined by mypartners in crime, Mr.
Ryan Fleming.
Everybody.
Hello.
And Mr.
Brian Baner.
Howdy, howdy.
Ryan Fleming (00:27):
Thanks for joining us.
Ed Beemiller (00:28):
Yes.
Well, I just have each of ustake a deep breath because we
are about to move head forwardstraight on into the holiday
season here.
Oh boy.
To uh what what I say is isprobably the busiest day of the
year, at least for retailers,Black Friday.
Ryan Fleming (00:47):
Oh boy.
Here we go.
Ed Beemiller (00:49):
And that is the official kickoff of the I'd call
it more the Christmas holidayseason, although you know,
holiday season tends to be, youknow, we forget about Halloween
and Thanksgiving nowadays.
I mean, I'm I'm seeingChristmas ads the beginning of
October.
So I I think the holiday seasonis officially Christmas.
And uh, you know, we talk aboutBlack Friday, and uh, you know,
(01:12):
everybody has uh, I want to saymemories or you know, maybe uh
family traditions, and uh someof them are older, some of them
are newer, but it seems likeeverything's gotten moved up
nowadays.
You know, like I said, it'sit's not, you know, hey, let's
have the Halloween holiday,let's take some time, let's then
do the Thanksgiving.
Ryan Fleming (01:31):
The beginning of Christmas songs.
Is that is that November 1st?
Is it before Thanksgiving?
What is it?
Ed Beemiller (01:36):
Well, yeah, yeah, there's a certain radio station
here in town that uh I believeum I don't know if it's the
beginning of November or rightaround Thanksgiving, that
literally starts playing 24-7through the Christmas holiday.
All they do is play Christmassongs 24-7.
So uh we we actually even gotum our lights put up um here.
(01:57):
We we got a discount if we hadthe lights put up uh before
Halloween.
You're so our Christmas lightson the house are already up.
Oh my goodness.
Um but we all have black BlackFriday uh stories, so what what
why don't you guys throw in youryour two cents on uh on what
Black Friday happens in yourhousehold?
Ryan Fleming (02:18):
I mean, well, early on I we didn't have any
money to go to Black Fridayshopping, but uh um I one of the
things that I remember is thatwe would go over to my wife's
in-laws every single year forThanksgiving, and invariably
after we'd all stuff our facewith you know turkey and s and
and stuffing and pie andeverything, but the women would
shuffle off to the corner of theuh room and a big round table
(02:41):
and and out pop the ads.
And uh the guys just looked ateach other and said, Well, I
think we got a couple hours toourselves because they uh they
dove through those ads likeanimals, cutting out everything,
planning out their next day.
And you know, that's that'swhat I remember.
It just allowed me to go lay onthe couch and watch some more
football.
Ed Beemiller (02:58):
There you go.
Do you partake in Black Friday?
Well, I I do not partake inBlack Friday.
I uh I've never done it.
Ryan Fleming (03:04):
I've never done it.
Ed Beemiller (03:06):
Well, what's also come about is you know, internet
shopping.
So you you get these CyberMonday Black Friday deals.
You don't even have to leaveyour home anymore, but my my
sister-in-law, our whole familygets together at either our
house or my my brother's andsister-in-law's homes, you know,
on Thanksgiving.
And several years ago, sheliterally started going out.
(03:28):
She would go out at about 11p.m., closer to midnight,
because there were storesopening like Walmart, not a lot
of the retail, but the big chainretailers were literally
opening up and they had these,you know, 36-inch TVs, you know,
that were $100 off, and likepeople would, you know, get in
(03:50):
line of 50 people grabbing, youknow, trying to get a hundred
dollars off on a TV, you know.
Yeah.
I I I said, hey, you want togo, go ahead.
I I said, you know, I I gotthat tryptophine from my turkey
and I'm I'm just laying thereabout ready to take a nap.
Brian Minier (04:04):
That's right.
Well about you being here's myBlack Friday tradition.
Ryan, what is what is theMonday after Thanksgiving known
for?
Cyber Monday.
Well, there's something elsethat it's known for.
Tell me.
It's the first day of gunseason for deer.
Ryan Fleming (04:16):
Oh, you're going down that road.
Brian Minier (04:17):
So Friday, my Black Friday is to go in and
sight in my gun so that I'mready for Monday.
So my son Daniel Boone.
Well, my son's home fromcollege.
Love it.
Him and I go to the range, andthat's what we do on Black
Friday.
Ed Beemiller (04:30):
Oh, there you go.
Brian Minier (04:31):
There you go.
I love that.
Ed Beemiller (04:32):
You know, with with shopping madness, you know,
I I kind of call the wholeBlack Friday season.
It's the greatest marketing andadvertising campaign that was
ever created, I think, byretailers.
Um but Ryan, I think uh youknow what time it is.
Ryan Fleming (04:48):
Let's hear it.
It's stat time.
It's that time, ladies andgentlemen.
So, you know, we always like toput a little uh stat and uh
analytical data in front of ourlisteners.
So uh I was tasked with thatthis week.
I mean, this is insane.
Obviously, uh Ed, you're right.
I mean, this is a massive,massive consumer event in our
culture.
Um, you know, just consumerbehavior just is super erratic.
(05:09):
But let's listen to some ofthis stuff.
So last year, just online salesalone in the U.S.
on Black Friday reached almost$11 billion.
Um that was up over 10% from2023.
Who knows what it's gonna bethis year?
We're gonna find out.
I have a feeling it might beup.
Um, you know, there's thisthere's something that they call
(05:31):
the cycle, or the excuse me,the cyber five.
The cyber five.
You guys know what that is?
The cyber five is the periodfrom Thanksgiving all the way
through Cyber Monday.
They call that the Cyber Five.
Just alone on online spendingin the United States during that
uh cycle there, $30.2 billion.
Ed Beemiller (05:51):
Compared to what what was in store, you said a
little bit?
Ryan Fleming (05:54):
This is just online.
Ed Beemiller (05:55):
That's online.
So that is almost triple?
Announcer (05:57):
This is this is these numbers I just gave you, the
the the almost $11 billion andthe $30 billion, those were just
online sales.
Ed Beemiller (06:04):
Oh, even the $11 billion was online.
Yes.
Oh, good.
Ryan Fleming (06:07):
Oh, really?
And 79% of all consumershopping was done from mobile
devices.
I I mean that that that'sincredible.
So another stat that I thoughtwas uh interesting to for
listeners to understand is thatthe average, what do you guys
think?
The average U.S.
consumer is expected to spendhow much on Black Friday?
What would you guess?
Ed Beemiller (06:27):
How much on Black Friday?
Ryan Fleming (06:29):
God.
Ed Beemiller (06:30):
$2,500?
I was gonna say a couple grand.
Announcer (06:32):
$650.
Only $650.
$650.
Right.
So right.
Yeah, this that was a survey byuh Deloitte, you know, the
accounting firm Deloitte.
So, you know, end of the day,um people are going to spend on
average $650, you know, maybe$1,000 or more, like in a just a
blip of an eye.
And um, and that's not evenincluding the in-store
(06:54):
purchases.
I I I thought the I thought theonline purchase uh metrics were
just insane.
Uh, in-store purchases, thoseuh the block stores are a little
bit less.
Ed Beemiller (07:02):
Yeah.
Ryan Fleming (07:02):
Um, but just that makes sense in our culture with
the phone and you know, Amazonand things like that.
So um massive event, massiveconsumer event.
Um and that obviously controlsa lot of uh people's finances
and you carry over debt and allthis good stuff that we can talk
about.
So hey, they're out therefinding deals, I guess.
Brian Minier (07:20):
It's interesting if people are really getting the
deals that they think they are.
I mean, that's why they do it,because they're looking for a
deal.
Yeah.
I wonder if they're if theyactually get the deal.
Ed Beemiller (07:28):
There's a whole mental aspect to it where you
think, well, it's Black Friday.
I have to be getting a deal,right?
Ryan Fleming (07:33):
Or are you shopping because you need it?
Are you really getting the dealor do you need it?
Ed Beemiller (07:37):
You know, it's just I think it's more of a
want-based shopping SSH.
Brian Minier (07:41):
It's an adrenaline.
Ryan Fleming (07:41):
It's an adrenaline rush.
Brian Minier (07:42):
Well, I think that dovetails nicely into what
we're going to talk about today.
When you think about financialplanning, there's obviously uh
an emotional and psychologicalcomponent to that.
And so it got us wonderingspeaking of Black Friday, are
there deals to be had in thefinancial services field?
So think about that.
People tend to buy when theythink they're getting a deal.
(08:05):
If they don't think they'regetting a good deal, a lot of
times people will hesitate.
So, how does that translateinto what we do?
Are there deals to be had?
What do you guys think aboutthat?
Ryan Fleming (08:14):
Well, the first thing I'll jump in with is um I
I think one of the biggestdeals, whether people know it or
not, is identifying as many taxadvantage strategies as
possible.
You know, a lot of experts, uh,a lot of evidence is pointing
to that taxes are on the sale ofa lifetime.
You know, uh if you if you lookat the um income tax brackets
(08:34):
as they stand today, we are ator near historic lows.
And you know, when you look atthe statistics of the unfunded
obligations of Social Security,Medicare, Medicaid, the interest
on the rising national debt, umwe it's just an unsustainable
trajectory that's that's gonnabe facing us for for many years
to come here.
So uh the chances of taxesgoing up in the future are
(08:57):
relatively high.
So one of the biggest deals, Ithink, is identifying as many
tax advantage or tax-freeplanning strategies as possible.
So for example, Roth IRAs, Roth401ks, or Roth 403Bs, those
allow you to put money in aftertax at a point in time in
history where taxes are at ornear historical lows and then
(09:18):
never pay tax ever again.
In other words, you're you'rekind of getting off the radar
from the IRS.
Brian Minier (09:23):
Um things like the deal in that regard would be we
pay the taxes now becausethey're gonna be more later.
Ryan Fleming (09:29):
Yeah, you know the the deal is you you you pay tax
now, so you avoid the higherones.
Yeah, overall less taxes.
Ed Beemiller (09:35):
Yeah, pay pay taxes on the seed, not the
harvest, and take advantage ofthe the current tax environment
that we're in.
A lot of people which is reallya very attractive.
Ryan Fleming (09:46):
Yeah, and a lot of people are gonna be in a
position to consider another uhtax advantage deal, which is
Roth conversions.
You know, a lot of people don'tfully understand that they
could take pre-tax dollars likein a traditional IRA and pay the
tax on that slowly over timeand convert those dollars to
forever tax-free.
And the other thing that whythose types of strategies are
important is that by havingthose types of buckets, you
(10:09):
avoid RMDs in the future.
You avoid the required minimumdistribution, which could be a
tax bomb waiting to happen lateron when you're you're like 73
or 75 years old.
So um being proactive andpaying tax at a lower rate,
known rate now to avoid thehigher, absolutely good deal.
Brian Minier (10:30):
100% as far as the implications of the taxes on
your social security budget.
On provisional income.
It's huge.
Ryan Fleming (10:37):
It's not yeah, not it's not provisional income.
Uh things like health savingsaccounts.
Um, you know, that's kind of atriple tax benefit.
You can you can put the moneyin uh and get a deduction, you
can invest it if you wanted to,and you can uh defer the growth,
the you know, defer the tax onthe growth on that, and then you
can use that you know for forqualified medical expenses.
So that that that's kind of apopular one.
(10:57):
Um certain types of cash valuelife insurance policies.
We we sometimes we call thoseLERPs, life insurance retirement
plans.
Now they're all different, theyhave to be structured
correctly, but uh that getstreated different than pretty
much any other thing underneaththe IRS tax code, and that could
be a way for you to mitigatetax or you know not have to pay
tax, rising taxes in the future.
Uh and the last one that Iwould say as far as like a deal
(11:17):
that that's out there is not alot of people understand is that
kind of the uh the goldensombrero as far as deals is
being able to put money inpre-tax, like into a pre-tax
401k or pre-tax 403B.
So if I put $10,000 into my401k pre-tax, I get the
deduction.
Uh, I allow that money to sitthere and bake in the oven, and
(11:38):
I don't have to pay any tax onthe growth, so I defer the tax
on the growth.
And then later on down theroad, when I pull the money out,
whether it be at RMD age orjust when I want to after 59 and
a half, um, I can have a lot ofthat money offset by the
standard deduction.
And that is the triplesombrero.
That's a triple tax benefitthat you that's that's it.
That's the golden sombrero.
(11:58):
You can't get better than that.
Ed Beemiller (11:59):
The triple sombrero.
There's a phlegm is of course.
Yeah, the triple sombrero.
I like it.
Ryan Fleming (12:04):
That's actually bad in baseball.
That means you whiffed andstruck out three times in a row.
All right.
But the financial planning,that's what that's three good
things right there.
That uh those are great dealsfrom tax advantage standpoint.
Brian Minier (12:13):
And that is all planning, knowing how to take
your distributions.
That's money that'll never betaxed for sure if you do it that
way.
Get off the tracks, get off theradar.
That's fantastic.
Ed Beemiller (12:22):
Yeah, uh another thing that a lot of people um
don't don't really pay attentionto, or especially the the
younger people, hopefully in ouraudience, you know, we talk
about starting to save money asearly as possible.
So you know that makes it mucheasier than waiting till you're
in your 40s and 50s.
And you know, if you're luckyenough to have a company that
(12:45):
has some type of definedbenefit, defined contribution
plan, you know, 401k, 403B,often these companies match.
So it's kind of like this timeof the year, November, is open
enrollment.
So let's say you've beenworking for a company for a
while, and you were just like, II need my money, I got bills to
pay, everything else.
But this is the time of year,you know, coinciding with this
(13:07):
whole Black Friday.
Well, the deal is, hey, you cansign up for your 401k, 403B at
this time of the year, and it'slike buy one, get one, right?
Oh yeah.
Well, the the buy one is youcontributing.
The get one is the companymatch.
So something we always talkabout, and you guys do the same
thing, is hey, if we're lookingat that and we go through, you
(13:28):
know, a financial questionnaire,and you know, we're seeing, you
know, okay, what company youwork for?
Do they offer a 41k?
Yeah, but I'm not doing it.
Okay, do they offer a match?
Yes.
Well, I mean, we we stronglyencourage our clients at least
contribute up to that match.
Ryan Fleming (13:42):
You could argue that's the best deal of all,
right?
Because it's that's it's freeand it it's a 100% rate of
return on your money.
Yeah.
That's that's the best dealever.
Ed Beemiller (13:51):
Yeah.
And it goes, you know,typically that money falls into,
I know we talk a lot about, youknow, on our podcasts, the
whole bucket planning.
That's more of a longer-termbucket.
So, you know, that's notsomething that, you know, hey, I
need that money right now.
You may need it right now, butif you just put a little bit
away, you you then get thatpower of continuous compounding
(14:12):
or the compounding and growthover a long period of time,
which can really help.
Ryan Fleming (14:17):
You got to contribute at least up to the
that's a gift.
You gotta do it.
Brian Minier (14:20):
It's free money.
Ryan Fleming (14:20):
How do you turn it down?
Brian Minier (14:21):
Yeah, you said it's 100% investment.
Ed Beemiller (14:23):
But a lot of a lot of a lot of a lot of people
don't.
I mean, especially in theyounger generations that are
just starting jobs or even, youknow, uh, you know, 20s, 30s,
often, you know, life catches upwith them.
They're you know, all theirmoney's going towards a house or
starting a family, that type ofthing.
Brian Minier (14:39):
But it's very important to and I get it,
there's only so much money to goaround, and sometimes you don't
have it.
But man, if you can takeadvantage of that match at least
up to the match.
Any anything, you know,anything's better than nothing.
Right.
Up to the match.
You know, another one that thatI was thinking about is when we
have a market downturn at somepoint.
I think it's inevitable.
We kind of had one in 2022, themarket bounced back pretty
(15:01):
quickly.
Ryan Fleming (15:02):
Yeah.
Brian Minier (15:02):
But a lot of times when you think about the
psychology of financialplanning, people get very scared
when the market goes down.
They want to freeze, they wantto move everything to cash, and
that is the time to buy.
That's the time to startinvesting.
I think, Ryan, you said that isthe Black Friday of investing.
Because when do you want tobuy?
When things are are low, right?
(15:23):
And that is the opportunitywhen you can buy it low.
You have the discipline to keepthose investments, and then
over time as it grows, that'swhen you're going to start
making your your rate of return.
Yeah.
So I I think that is key, is iswhen the market is low, that is
the opportunity to invest asmuch as you can.
Ed Beemiller (15:43):
Yeah.
And and I always I've used thiscomment before, you know, when
we're looking at planning,investing in savings, for most
people, it's not a sprint, it'sit's a marathon.
So when you talked about buyinglow, that gets into the whole
concept of dollar costaveraging.
That's right.
And we've spoken before onprevious podcasts where if you
get your money out of the marketinto cash and you miss the the
(16:06):
highest positive day within therecovery, the upswing, or the
two, three highest, you'reliterally uh the the percentages
are astounding.
Your overall rate of return isgonna be a lot less.
Oh, yeah, you're missing out ofa lot of growth opportunity.
Yeah, you were talking 30, 40percent plus with that.
Ryan Fleming (16:23):
So yeah, when people are panicking, things are
on sale, that's when you act.
That's a black Friday deal.
That's the Black Friday deal alife.
Ed Beemiller (16:31):
Yeah, so I I think in in summation, what we're
really trying to do here is youknow, Black Friday in our minds
is kind of tied to consumerspending.
We need to go out and buy goodsand services, it's the holidays
coming up.
But it's also, you know, whenwe look at this, that this is a
time not necessarily to spend,but also to save.
(16:51):
Look at what you're doing, youknow, and there are things that
are on sale or you're able totake advantage of within within
your financial.
Smart ways to do it tooptimize.
Ryan Fleming (17:04):
Yeah, that's what we want to help you with tax
advantages, employer matches,buying, you know, buying when
the market's low.
Ed Beemiller (17:10):
All comes down to don't leave don't leave money on
the table or upsideopportunities, you know, on the
table.
Facts, right?
So facts.
Well, we Hudlers, we appreciateyou spending the time.
As always, um, we would lovefor you to share this with
friends, family, yeah,subscribers, co-workers,
subscribe to the channel.
You know, we once again we justcontinue to try to you know
(17:33):
promote that financial literacyand really, you know, tackling
some topics or events.
You know, we're in, as I said,we're in the holiday season, so
we thought we'd take a littlebit of different spin on
something that we all know a lotabout.
Ryan Fleming (17:47):
Drop us a comment, give us some advice, some
topics you'd like to hear, butuh definitely subscribe, like,
follow us.
We'd appreciate that a lot.
Hit that notification bell.
Ed Beemiller (17:54):
Until next time.
Ryan Fleming (17:55):
Yep, take care, Huddlers.
The financial huddle does not provide tax, legal,
financial, or other professionaladvice.
Listeners are encouraged toconsult with their own advisors
in these areas.
All right, everybody, huddleup.
Brian Minier (00:08):
Play calls in.
This is the Financial Huddle.
Ready.
Ed Beemiller (00:14):
Welcome back, Huddler Nation, to our next
episode of the Financial HuddlePodcast.
As usual, I'm joined by mypartners in crime, Mr.
Ryan Fleming.
Everybody.
Hello.
And Mr.
Brian Baner.
Howdy, howdy.
Ryan Fleming (00:27):
Thanks for joining us.
Ed Beemiller (00:28):
Yes.
Well, I just have each of ustake a deep breath because we
are about to move head forwardstraight on into the holiday
season here.
Oh boy.
To uh what what I say is isprobably the busiest day of the
year, at least for retailers,Black Friday.
Ryan Fleming (00:47):
Oh boy.
Here we go.
Ed Beemiller (00:49):
And that is the official kickoff of the I'd call
it more the Christmas holidayseason, although you know,
holiday season tends to be, youknow, we forget about Halloween
and Thanksgiving nowadays.
I mean, I'm I'm seeingChristmas ads the beginning of
October.
So I I think the holiday seasonis officially Christmas.
And uh, you know, we talk aboutBlack Friday, and uh, you know,
(01:12):
everybody has uh, I want to saymemories or you know, maybe uh
family traditions, and uh someof them are older, some of them
are newer, but it seems likeeverything's gotten moved up
nowadays.
You know, like I said, it'sit's not, you know, hey, let's
have the Halloween holiday,let's take some time, let's then
do the Thanksgiving.
Ryan Fleming (01:31):
The beginning of Christmas songs.
Is that is that November 1st?
Is it before Thanksgiving?
What is it?
Ed Beemiller (01:36):
Well, yeah, yeah, there's a certain radio station
here in town that uh I believeum I don't know if it's the
beginning of November or rightaround Thanksgiving, that
literally starts playing 24-7through the Christmas holiday.
All they do is play Christmassongs 24-7.
So uh we we actually even gotum our lights put up um here.
(01:57):
We we got a discount if we hadthe lights put up uh before
Halloween.
You're so our Christmas lightson the house are already up.
Oh my goodness.
Um but we all have black BlackFriday uh stories, so what what
why don't you guys throw in youryour two cents on uh on what
Black Friday happens in yourhousehold?
Ryan Fleming (02:18):
I mean, well, early on I we didn't have any
money to go to Black Fridayshopping, but uh um I one of the
things that I remember is thatwe would go over to my wife's
in-laws every single year forThanksgiving, and invariably
after we'd all stuff our facewith you know turkey and s and
and stuffing and pie andeverything, but the women would
shuffle off to the corner of theuh room and a big round table
(02:41):
and and out pop the ads.
And uh the guys just looked ateach other and said, Well, I
think we got a couple hours toourselves because they uh they
dove through those ads likeanimals, cutting out everything,
planning out their next day.
And you know, that's that'swhat I remember.
It just allowed me to go lay onthe couch and watch some more
football.
Ed Beemiller (02:58):
There you go.
Do you partake in Black Friday?
Well, I I do not partake inBlack Friday.
I uh I've never done it.
Ryan Fleming (03:04):
I've never done it.
Ed Beemiller (03:06):
Well, what's also come about is you know, internet
shopping.
So you you get these CyberMonday Black Friday deals.
You don't even have to leaveyour home anymore, but my my
sister-in-law, our whole familygets together at either our
house or my my brother's andsister-in-law's homes, you know,
on Thanksgiving.
And several years ago, sheliterally started going out.
(03:28):
She would go out at about 11p.m., closer to midnight,
because there were storesopening like Walmart, not a lot
of the retail, but the big chainretailers were literally
opening up and they had these,you know, 36-inch TVs, you know,
that were $100 off, and likepeople would, you know, get in
(03:50):
line of 50 people grabbing, youknow, trying to get a hundred
dollars off on a TV, you know.
Yeah.
I I I said, hey, you want togo, go ahead.
I I said, you know, I I gotthat tryptophine from my turkey
and I'm I'm just laying thereabout ready to take a nap.
Brian Minier (04:04):
That's right.
Well about you being here's myBlack Friday tradition.
Ryan, what is what is theMonday after Thanksgiving known
for?
Cyber Monday.
Well, there's something elsethat it's known for.
Tell me.
It's the first day of gunseason for deer.
Ryan Fleming (04:16):
Oh, you're going down that road.
Brian Minier (04:17):
So Friday, my Black Friday is to go in and
sight in my gun so that I'mready for Monday.
So my son Daniel Boone.
Well, my son's home fromcollege.
Love it.
Him and I go to the range, andthat's what we do on Black
Friday.
Ed Beemiller (04:30):
Oh, there you go.
Brian Minier (04:31):
There you go.
I love that.
Ed Beemiller (04:32):
You know, with with shopping madness, you know,
I I kind of call the wholeBlack Friday season.
It's the greatest marketing andadvertising campaign that was
ever created, I think, byretailers.
Um but Ryan, I think uh youknow what time it is.
Ryan Fleming (04:48):
Let's hear it.
It's stat time.
It's that time, ladies andgentlemen.
So, you know, we always like toput a little uh stat and uh
analytical data in front of ourlisteners.
So uh I was tasked with thatthis week.
I mean, this is insane.
Obviously, uh Ed, you're right.
I mean, this is a massive,massive consumer event in our
culture.
Um, you know, just consumerbehavior just is super erratic.
(05:09):
But let's listen to some ofthis stuff.
So last year, just online salesalone in the U.S.
on Black Friday reached almost$11 billion.
Um that was up over 10% from2023.
Who knows what it's gonna bethis year?
We're gonna find out.
I have a feeling it might beup.
Um, you know, there's thisthere's something that they call
(05:31):
the cycle, or the excuse me,the cyber five.
The cyber five.
You guys know what that is?
The cyber five is the periodfrom Thanksgiving all the way
through Cyber Monday.
They call that the Cyber Five.
Just alone on online spendingin the United States during that
uh cycle there, $30.2 billion.
Ed Beemiller (05:51):
Compared to what what was in store, you said a
little bit?
Ryan Fleming (05:54):
This is just online.
Ed Beemiller (05:55):
That's online.
So that is almost triple?
Announcer (05:57):
This is this is these numbers I just gave you, the
the the almost $11 billion andthe $30 billion, those were just
online sales.
Ed Beemiller (06:04):
Oh, even the $11 billion was online.
Yes.
Oh, good.
Ryan Fleming (06:07):
Oh, really?
And 79% of all consumershopping was done from mobile
devices.
I I mean that that that'sincredible.
So another stat that I thoughtwas uh interesting to for
listeners to understand is thatthe average, what do you guys
think?
The average U.S.
consumer is expected to spendhow much on Black Friday?
What would you guess?
Ed Beemiller (06:27):
How much on Black Friday?
Ryan Fleming (06:29):
God.
Ed Beemiller (06:30):
$2,500?
I was gonna say a couple grand.
Announcer (06:32):
$650.
Only $650.
$650.
Right.
So right.
Yeah, this that was a survey byuh Deloitte, you know, the
accounting firm Deloitte.
So, you know, end of the day,um people are going to spend on
average $650, you know, maybe$1,000 or more, like in a just a
blip of an eye.
And um, and that's not evenincluding the in-store
(06:54):
purchases.
I I I thought the I thought theonline purchase uh metrics were
just insane.
Uh, in-store purchases, thoseuh the block stores are a little
bit less.
Ed Beemiller (07:02):
Yeah.
Ryan Fleming (07:02):
Um, but just that makes sense in our culture with
the phone and you know, Amazonand things like that.
So um massive event, massiveconsumer event.
Um and that obviously controlsa lot of uh people's finances
and you carry over debt and allthis good stuff that we can talk
about.
So hey, they're out therefinding deals, I guess.
Brian Minier (07:20):
It's interesting if people are really getting the
deals that they think they are.
I mean, that's why they do it,because they're looking for a
deal.
Yeah.
I wonder if they're if theyactually get the deal.
Ed Beemiller (07:28):
There's a whole mental aspect to it where you
think, well, it's Black Friday.
I have to be getting a deal,right?
Ryan Fleming (07:33):
Or are you shopping because you need it?
Are you really getting the dealor do you need it?
Ed Beemiller (07:37):
You know, it's just I think it's more of a
want-based shopping SSH.
Brian Minier (07:41):
It's an adrenaline.
Ryan Fleming (07:41):
It's an adrenaline rush.
Brian Minier (07:42):
Well, I think that dovetails nicely into what
we're going to talk about today.
When you think about financialplanning, there's obviously uh
an emotional and psychologicalcomponent to that.
And so it got us wonderingspeaking of Black Friday, are
there deals to be had in thefinancial services field?
So think about that.
People tend to buy when theythink they're getting a deal.
(08:05):
If they don't think they'regetting a good deal, a lot of
times people will hesitate.
So, how does that translateinto what we do?
Are there deals to be had?
What do you guys think aboutthat?
Ryan Fleming (08:14):
Well, the first thing I'll jump in with is um I
I think one of the biggestdeals, whether people know it or
not, is identifying as many taxadvantage strategies as
possible.
You know, a lot of experts, uh,a lot of evidence is pointing
to that taxes are on the sale ofa lifetime.
You know, uh if you if you lookat the um income tax brackets
(08:34):
as they stand today, we are ator near historic lows.
And you know, when you look atthe statistics of the unfunded
obligations of Social Security,Medicare, Medicaid, the interest
on the rising national debt, umwe it's just an unsustainable
trajectory that's that's gonnabe facing us for for many years
to come here.
So uh the chances of taxesgoing up in the future are
(08:57):
relatively high.
So one of the biggest deals, Ithink, is identifying as many
tax advantage or tax-freeplanning strategies as possible.
So for example, Roth IRAs, Roth401ks, or Roth 403Bs, those
allow you to put money in aftertax at a point in time in
history where taxes are at ornear historical lows and then
(09:18):
never pay tax ever again.
In other words, you're you'rekind of getting off the radar
from the IRS.
Brian Minier (09:23):
Um things like the deal in that regard would be we
pay the taxes now becausethey're gonna be more later.
Ryan Fleming (09:29):
Yeah, you know the the deal is you you you pay tax
now, so you avoid the higherones.
Yeah, overall less taxes.
Ed Beemiller (09:35):
Yeah, pay pay taxes on the seed, not the
harvest, and take advantage ofthe the current tax environment
that we're in.
A lot of people which is reallya very attractive.
Ryan Fleming (09:46):
Yeah, and a lot of people are gonna be in a
position to consider another uhtax advantage deal, which is
Roth conversions.
You know, a lot of people don'tfully understand that they
could take pre-tax dollars likein a traditional IRA and pay the
tax on that slowly over timeand convert those dollars to
forever tax-free.
And the other thing that whythose types of strategies are
important is that by havingthose types of buckets, you
(10:09):
avoid RMDs in the future.
You avoid the required minimumdistribution, which could be a
tax bomb waiting to happen lateron when you're you're like 73
or 75 years old.
So um being proactive andpaying tax at a lower rate,
known rate now to avoid thehigher, absolutely good deal.
Brian Minier (10:30):
100% as far as the implications of the taxes on
your social security budget.
On provisional income.
It's huge.
Ryan Fleming (10:37):
It's not yeah, not it's not provisional income.
Uh things like health savingsaccounts.
Um, you know, that's kind of atriple tax benefit.
You can you can put the moneyin uh and get a deduction, you
can invest it if you wanted to,and you can uh defer the growth,
the you know, defer the tax onthe growth on that, and then you
can use that you know for forqualified medical expenses.
So that that that's kind of apopular one.
(10:57):
Um certain types of cash valuelife insurance policies.
We we sometimes we call thoseLERPs, life insurance retirement
plans.
Now they're all different, theyhave to be structured
correctly, but uh that getstreated different than pretty
much any other thing underneaththe IRS tax code, and that could
be a way for you to mitigatetax or you know not have to pay
tax, rising taxes in the future.
Uh and the last one that Iwould say as far as like a deal
(11:17):
that that's out there is not alot of people understand is that
kind of the uh the goldensombrero as far as deals is
being able to put money inpre-tax, like into a pre-tax
401k or pre-tax 403B.
So if I put $10,000 into my401k pre-tax, I get the
deduction.
Uh, I allow that money to sitthere and bake in the oven, and
(11:38):
I don't have to pay any tax onthe growth, so I defer the tax
on the growth.
And then later on down theroad, when I pull the money out,
whether it be at RMD age orjust when I want to after 59 and
a half, um, I can have a lot ofthat money offset by the
standard deduction.
And that is the triplesombrero.
That's a triple tax benefitthat you that's that's it.
That's the golden sombrero.
(11:58):
You can't get better than that.
Ed Beemiller (11:59):
The triple sombrero.
There's a phlegm is of course.
Yeah, the triple sombrero.
I like it.
Ryan Fleming (12:04):
That's actually bad in baseball.
That means you whiffed andstruck out three times in a row.
All right.
But the financial planning,that's what that's three good
things right there.
That uh those are great dealsfrom tax advantage standpoint.
Brian Minier (12:13):
And that is all planning, knowing how to take
your distributions.
That's money that'll never betaxed for sure if you do it that
way.
Get off the tracks, get off theradar.
That's fantastic.
Ed Beemiller (12:22):
Yeah, uh another thing that a lot of people um
don't don't really pay attentionto, or especially the the
younger people, hopefully in ouraudience, you know, we talk
about starting to save money asearly as possible.
So you know that makes it mucheasier than waiting till you're
in your 40s and 50s.
And you know, if you're luckyenough to have a company that
(12:45):
has some type of definedbenefit, defined contribution
plan, you know, 401k, 403B,often these companies match.
So it's kind of like this timeof the year, November, is open
enrollment.
So let's say you've beenworking for a company for a
while, and you were just like, II need my money, I got bills to
pay, everything else.
But this is the time of year,you know, coinciding with this
(13:07):
whole Black Friday.
Well, the deal is, hey, you cansign up for your 401k, 403B at
this time of the year, and it'slike buy one, get one, right?
Oh yeah.
Well, the the buy one is youcontributing.
The get one is the companymatch.
So something we always talkabout, and you guys do the same
thing, is hey, if we're lookingat that and we go through, you
(13:28):
know, a financial questionnaire,and you know, we're seeing, you
know, okay, what company youwork for?
Do they offer a 41k?
Yeah, but I'm not doing it.
Okay, do they offer a match?
Yes.
Well, I mean, we we stronglyencourage our clients at least
contribute up to that match.
Ryan Fleming (13:42):
You could argue that's the best deal of all,
right?
Because it's that's it's freeand it it's a 100% rate of
return on your money.
Yeah.
That's that's the best dealever.
Ed Beemiller (13:51):
Yeah.
And it goes, you know,typically that money falls into,
I know we talk a lot about, youknow, on our podcasts, the
whole bucket planning.
That's more of a longer-termbucket.
So, you know, that's notsomething that, you know, hey, I
need that money right now.
You may need it right now, butif you just put a little bit
away, you you then get thatpower of continuous compounding
(14:12):
or the compounding and growthover a long period of time,
which can really help.
Ryan Fleming (14:17):
You got to contribute at least up to the
that's a gift.
You gotta do it.
Brian Minier (14:20):
It's free money.
Ryan Fleming (14:20):
How do you turn it down?
Brian Minier (14:21):
Yeah, you said it's 100% investment.
Ed Beemiller (14:23):
But a lot of a lot of a lot of a lot of people
don't.
I mean, especially in theyounger generations that are
just starting jobs or even, youknow, uh, you know, 20s, 30s,
often, you know, life catches upwith them.
They're you know, all theirmoney's going towards a house or
starting a family, that type ofthing.
Brian Minier (14:39):
But it's very important to and I get it,
there's only so much money to goaround, and sometimes you don't
have it.
But man, if you can takeadvantage of that match at least
up to the match.
Any anything, you know,anything's better than nothing.
Right.
Up to the match.
You know, another one that thatI was thinking about is when we
have a market downturn at somepoint.
I think it's inevitable.
We kind of had one in 2022, themarket bounced back pretty
(15:01):
quickly.
Ryan Fleming (15:02):
Yeah.
Brian Minier (15:02):
But a lot of times when you think about the
psychology of financialplanning, people get very scared
when the market goes down.
They want to freeze, they wantto move everything to cash, and
that is the time to buy.
That's the time to startinvesting.
I think, Ryan, you said that isthe Black Friday of investing.
Because when do you want tobuy?
When things are are low, right?
(15:23):
And that is the opportunitywhen you can buy it low.
You have the discipline to keepthose investments, and then
over time as it grows, that'swhen you're going to start
making your your rate of return.
Yeah.
So I I think that is key, is iswhen the market is low, that is
the opportunity to invest asmuch as you can.
Ed Beemiller (15:43):
Yeah.
And and I always I've used thiscomment before, you know, when
we're looking at planning,investing in savings, for most
people, it's not a sprint, it'sit's a marathon.
So when you talked about buyinglow, that gets into the whole
concept of dollar costaveraging.
That's right.
And we've spoken before onprevious podcasts where if you
get your money out of the marketinto cash and you miss the the
(16:06):
highest positive day within therecovery, the upswing, or the
two, three highest, you'reliterally uh the the percentages
are astounding.
Your overall rate of return isgonna be a lot less.
Oh, yeah, you're missing out ofa lot of growth opportunity.
Yeah, you were talking 30, 40percent plus with that.
Ryan Fleming (16:23):
So yeah, when people are panicking, things are
on sale, that's when you act.
That's a black Friday deal.
That's the Black Friday deal alife.
Ed Beemiller (16:31):
Yeah, so I I think in in summation, what we're
really trying to do here is youknow, Black Friday in our minds
is kind of tied to consumerspending.
We need to go out and buy goodsand services, it's the holidays
coming up.
But it's also, you know, whenwe look at this, that this is a
time not necessarily to spend,but also to save.
(16:51):
Look at what you're doing, youknow, and there are things that
are on sale or you're able totake advantage of within within
your financial.
Smart ways to do it tooptimize.
Ryan Fleming (17:04):
Yeah, that's what we want to help you with tax
advantages, employer matches,buying, you know, buying when
the market's low.
Ed Beemiller (17:10):
All comes down to don't leave don't leave money on
the table or upsideopportunities, you know, on the
table.
Facts, right?
So facts.
Well, we Hudlers, we appreciateyou spending the time.
As always, um, we would lovefor you to share this with
friends, family, yeah,subscribers, co-workers,
subscribe to the channel.
You know, we once again we justcontinue to try to you know
(17:33):
promote that financial literacyand really, you know, tackling
some topics or events.
You know, we're in, as I said,we're in the holiday season, so
we thought we'd take a littlebit of different spin on
something that we all know a lotabout.
Ryan Fleming (17:47):
Drop us a comment, give us some advice, some
topics you'd like to hear, butuh definitely subscribe, like,
follow us.
We'd appreciate that a lot.
Hit that notification bell.
Ed Beemiller (17:54):
Until next time.
Ryan Fleming (17:55):
Yep, take care, Huddlers.
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