August 20, 2025 • 24 mins
When clients sit down with us, one question comes up more than any other: “When can I retire?” In this episode of The Financial Huddle, we dive deep into the realities behind that question—why so many Americans don’t know their retirement number, why living longer makes planning more complex, and why early retirement often isn’t a choice.
Ryan also shares his personal story of being forced into “retirement” from professional baseball with the Philadelphia Phillies, and how that shaped his perspective on planning for life’s unexpected transitions.
We’ll cover:
- Why the 4% rule isn’t the full story
- Business owner exit strategies vs. W-2 employee retirement planning
- How Social Security, pensions, and annuities fit into the equation
- The importance of knowing your desired lifestyle number
- Why leaving a legacy takes just as much planning as funding your own retirement
Whether you’re 5 years or 25 years away from retirement, this episode will give you clarity, perspective, and practical steps to start answering the big question: Am I ready to retire?
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Disclosure: Information contained in this podcast is for entertainment and informational purposes only, and should not be considered as financial advice. Financial Planning and Advisory Services are offered through Prosperity Capital Advisors (“PCA”), an SEC registered investment adviser. Registration as an investment adviser does not imply a certain level of skill or training. Keystone Financial Group and PCA are separate, non- affiliated entities. PCA does not provide tax or legal advice.
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Episode Transcript
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Announcer (00:00):
The Financial Huddle does not provide tax, legal,
financial, or other professionaladvice.
Listeners are encouraged toconsult with their own advisors
in these areas.
All right, everybody, huddleup.
The play calls in.
This is The Financial Huddle.
Ed Beemiller (00:12):
Ready, break.
Welcome, everyone, to our nextepisode of The Financial Huddle
Podcast.
Brian Minier (00:19):
Let's get it.
What's up, everybody?
Ed Beemiller (00:21):
Where we intertwine sports...
in financial topics.
You've got to call the rightplay in the huddle, Ed.
I think we finally, theweather's getting warmer, a lot
warmer.
We're heading into summertime,and with that, I know, Brian,
things have changed a bit inyour household.
You now have two college kidsthat are
Brian Minier (00:41):
home.
How's all that going?
I'll tell you, you miss them,and you know this, man.
You experience this.
You miss them when they'regone, and then you're glad when
they come home, but when they'rehome for about a week, you're
like, I'm ready for this.
for you to to maybe just comeback on the weekends
Ed Beemiller (00:57):
yeah you know certain things clothes are just
dropped in the middle of floorsyou know they ask well what's
for dinner and you look at themand say i don't know you tell me
right i mean they're they'reyoung adults but they still want
the comforts of you knowstaying at the holiday inn
express
Brian Minier (01:11):
that's right i think when my oldest come home i
i came home from work and hehad gotten home before me and
there were like five or sixdifferent bags in the hallway
Ed Beemiller (01:19):
yeah
Brian Minier (01:20):
and you know
Ed Beemiller (01:21):
and then they complain at dinner there's
nothing for there's no food toeat Yeah,
Brian Minier (01:25):
you've been there.
I've been there.
Been there, done that.
That's right.
Ryan Fleming (01:28):
Now, Ryan, same with you.
You've still got two runningaround.
You do got one that came home,but only for a little bit,
though, right?
Yeah.
My son, he's staying up inCleveland working, getting ready
for that internship.
My daughter, she's working twojobs, so she's busy, busy trying
to save that money for college.
(01:49):
You know, it's bittersweet.
Going on to be a Bobcat nextyear.
That's right.
University Bobcats.
Watch out.
Here we go.
I think in her heart of hearts,she's ready to get out.
But we're going to miss her.
So we're trying to soak up asmuch time as we can, man.
She's the only girl in myfamily in 60 years.
So no Fleming girls.
So...
(02:10):
Maybe a little extra specialtouch.
So what you're saying, she'sgot a lot of pressure on her.
Bittersweet, man.
That's right.
Bittersweet.
Right?
Yep.
Well, good.
As a financial planning firm,Keystone Financial, first and
foremost, I want to make sureeveryone, we greatly appreciate
you listening in.
As Ryan has said, we've saidbefore, please share this with
(02:32):
friends, family, cohorts.
We're out to provide thatinformation, that education.
We're out to provide thatinformation.
to build financial literacy.
And in our firm, in ourindustry, there's certain
questions that are always asked.
When we have a first meetingwith a client, one of the first
(02:54):
questions they often ask is,Ryan.
Yeah, by far the number onequestion I get is, hey Ryan,
when can we retire?
When am I going to be able toretire?
Tomorrow?
Yeah, tomorrow, yesterday.
And it's a very valid question,and it's a very loaded
question.
So what I did, I thought thiswould be good information for
(03:17):
our listeners out there.
It was actually educational tome, too.
I went to my best friend, Chad.
Chad GPT.
I like him.
He's a good dude.
I mean, this guy's a greathuman.
He's growing into his own.
He
Brian Minier (03:28):
really is.
He constantly evolves.
Ryan Fleming (03:31):
Yes.
Ever-changing and evolving.
He might be trending towards mybest friend.
Oh, there you go.
But old chat, I asked a littlebit about this, and these are
some things that I thought wereinteresting that you guys might
not know.
Well, most people, theyobviously don't know their
number.
That's why they ask us all thetime.
(03:51):
But according to NorthwesternMutual and a study done in 2023,
55% of Americans, they have noidea what they need to retire.
I guess that's why they'reasking us so many times, right?
They need a plan.
You wouldn't get on a roadtrip.
not knowing what thedestination was, would you?
So retirement works that sameway.
(04:13):
Another stat, as we know and wehear all the time, people are
living a lot longer.
You do a lot with SocialSecurity.
That was pretty much founded ona life expectancy of 65.
Brian Minier (04:25):
Well, 63.
You could take Social Securityat 65, but your life expectancy
was 63.
Ouch.
Something
Ryan Fleming (04:33):
wrong with that number.
Brian Minier (04:33):
Yeah, it changed a little bit, morphed into
something a little bitdifferent.
Ryan Fleming (04:37):
That's an oxy moron.
Well, Well, 65-year-old today,they got a 50% chance of living
past 85.
And if you're 65 years oldtoday, you have a 25% chance of
living past 92.
This is from the Society ofActuaries.
Retirement really isn't a10-year sprint anymore, fellas.
And our clients need to knowthis.
(04:57):
I mean, parents, some of theparents that I work with with
college planning, I mean, theymay live another 25, 30, 35
years.
And so it's a marathon, andthat money's got It's got to
last forever.
the retirement age myth.
A lot of people, they don'tunderstand this, but 40% of
retirements say that theyretired earlier than they had
(05:20):
planned to.
And that can happen for amyriad of different reasons.
But a lot of times, most of thetime, it's due to like health
issues or layoffs.
And it could be health issuesof like, you might be healthy,
but your parents are unhealthyand you're forced to go help
them.
Or a spouse.
Or a spouse, that's right.
And you may not get to choosewhen you retire is really the
moral.
But Yeah.
(05:42):
You got to be prepared forthat.
And most Americans, as we know,are grossly underprepared.
And to put some metrics tothat, the median retirement
savings for Americans today, age55 to age 64, that range right
there is just $134,000.
And this is from the FederalReserve of Consumer Finances in
(06:04):
2022.
Just to put that into context,if you had that amount of money,
that would provide less than$600 a month in income for life
and if you just think about thatfor a moment i mean that's kind
of scary and you can understandwhy people ask me that so much
i'm sure you get asked that somuch there's a lot of angst
(06:26):
there's a lot of unknown butthat's a big hairy question to
it's a complicated question sonow ryan you uh you have a very
unique uh retirement story.
A lot of people don't knowthis.
It probably hits a littlepersonal.
It hits home.
It is.
A lot of people don't knowthis, but I've already retired
one time in my life.
Congrats.
Brian Minier (06:47):
Did they throw a party for you?
Ryan Fleming (06:49):
No.
Brian Minier (06:50):
No
Ryan Fleming (06:51):
party?
I thought they might, but theydidn't.
The reason why I'm repping myPhillies jersey here is that
actually the story, it'semotional for me.
It's very personal.
Since I was a little boy, I hadthis dream of playing
professional baseball.
I really meant it.
There's stuff my mom has shownme when I was in kindergarten,
(07:13):
first grade.
My whole childhood and comingup through middle school and
high school, I really, reallywanted to play professional
baseball.
And by the grace of God, I wasgranted that opportunity for
many, many years, played 10years of professional baseball.
And the last team I played forwas the Philadelphia Phillies.
I had played for threeorganizations.
(07:35):
The Toronto Blue Jays gave memy chance.
They made my childhood dreamcame true and drafted me out of
the University of Dayton.
I got a chance to play for theTexas Rangers for a brief amount
of time.
But I finished my last fouryears with the Philadelphia
Phillies organization.
And make no mistake about it,when you get into professional
baseball, You know that at somepoint in time, whether you're
going to be a Hall of Famer oryou flame out in a rookie ball
(07:59):
or something, you're not goingto play forever.
Your time's coming to an end.
And I was no different.
I knew that it was going tocome to an end at some point in
time.
But April 1 of 2007, I wasforced to retire from the game,
so to speak.
So, like you talked about,forced early retirement.
It wasn't necessarily yourdecision.
(08:19):
Yeah, it's interestingbecause...
you know it's a business as weall know I didn't want to retire
I still my body felt good I washealthy I I didn't have a lot
of injuries but I got called inthe office the last day of
spring training and theybasically said man We love you.
It's a business.
We invited way too many peopleinto spring training.
(08:40):
We're not going to send youback to double A, and we're
going to have to let you go.
So you didn't get the BullDurham treatment?
I didn't get the Bull Durhamtreatment.
You went down to mentor thatrising flamethrower.
Well, Crash Davis still wastrying to set the home run
record.
Home run record, yes.
I never was known for my homerun prowess.
So anyways, long story short,they said, we've got to let you
(09:03):
go.
But ironically, they all said,we've got to let you go.
offer me a job in the samebreath.
They said, hey, we would lovefor you to stay here and be part
of the organization.
I declined right on the spot.
I literally resigned right onthe spot.
I didn't go ask my wife.
We had two small children.
She had given up 10 years ofher life.
Although I could have gottenrehired back again right away, I
(09:27):
retired from that sport andwalked away from that.
Sometimes in life, we knowwhat's coming, but we're not
prepared for it.
And it's no different with ourclients.
They know that they want toretire.
They just don't know how orwhat or where or when.
And that's our job.
And so I'll retire againsomeday, maybe.
(09:48):
But I got one underneath thebelt.
Not before me.
Well, we'll see.
Yeah, you are the elderstatesman.
That's great.
You are the elder statesman,even though you have less gray
hair than all of us, believe itor not.
But, you know, that got methinking, you know, When I talk
to my clients about retirement,I know you talk a lot about the
same exact question.
And like we talked about onprior episodes, one of the
(10:10):
things you work a lot with andhad done in the past are
business owners.
Well, their retirementquestions and their retirement
strategies are a whole differentset of circumstances than maybe
a traditional W-2 employee.
So what are some of the exitstrategies or questions you hear
from business owners aboutretirement?
And working with a businessowner, it's very unique.
(10:31):
opposed to just a normalindividual that has a w-2 type
paying job because they spenttheir entire life building up a
business they have employeesthey want to make sure you know
the employees are treated rightand there's really three
(10:53):
different types of successionplanning And once again, it
depends on the size of thebusiness.
And is this a business that isgoing to survive them from
removing themselves?
And at the end of the day,retirement is about one thing, I
always say.
That's income.
Paychecks.
Paychecks.
You've got to have that incometo pay the expenses to live your
(11:16):
retirement lifestyle.
So even a business owner justcan't say, all right, yeah, I'm
just going to walk away, unless,of course, he's done a great
job throughout the process ofbasically accumulating wealth
and investing correctly, havinga plan, which is obviously where
we come in.
But for many business owners,the company's their baby.
It's their child.
(11:36):
And so they're very concernedabout leaving it in good hands.
Many small, mid-sized businessowners are able to have family
members.
Often it's their children, kindof that second generation that
they can basically pass thebusiness to.
(11:56):
And often that can also be partof the retirement income need.
for the present owner, wherethey buy that out over a period
of time.
That comes with a lot ofdifferent issues and
complexities, because how manychildren do you have, and is it
(12:16):
a single owner versus two orthree owners, and are all their
kids going to come into thebusiness, which a lot of times,
honestly, from what I've seen inmy past experience, can be a
nightmare.
It's complex.
Oh, it's complicated.
There's attorneys, there's...
CPAs, there's a lot of peopleinvolved in that.
Another exit strategy isselling to basically key
(12:43):
management or key employeeswithin the company.
It's a little different than,obviously, a generational sale,
but the same type of thing.
You have people that have beeninvolved in the business and
have risen up.
understand the business andthat can often be a very
seamless transition but onceagain the owner kind of his
(13:04):
succession planning is oftenpaid out over a period of time
so that the business can thecash flow can actually pay that
and then the third one is justan outside third-party purchase
you know in most cases thebusiness owners there they just
want their money they're notwilling to take money back on a
buyout provision but at the endof the day what we have to do
(13:26):
just like an individual becauseat that point they're an
individual right they justhappen to own a business we have
to be able to have a plantogether once again that creates
that income sufficient toenable them to further lifestyle
and you know you talk to peoplethat are like From these social
security workshops that are atthe end.
(13:46):
I mean, they're getting readyto retire.
Getting close.
Yeah.
Brian Minier (13:49):
Some of them,
Ryan Fleming (13:49):
yeah.
Is there like a certain numberthat, you know, do they ask you
certain questions?
Yeah, I
Brian Minier (13:54):
love the question of what is the number that I
need?
That's
Ryan Fleming (13:58):
what they
Brian Minier (13:59):
say.
And it's not only just thefolks that are getting close to
social security.
You'll see this with people intheir 40s, early 50s, and
they're like, oh, this is goingto come before I know it.
It's going to be here beforeI'm a blank and I'm going to be
there.
And they'll say, well, what isthe number?
I'm sure you guys get thatquestion as well, right?
(14:19):
Like, what's the number that Ineed?
Remember those old commercialsthat would say, what's your
number?
And that's just so arbitrary ofwhat is the number that I need.
It's like, I got to dig alittle bit more.
You got to tell me a little bitmore about.
What's your lifestyle?
Ed Beemiller (14:36):
I remember hearing, and this goes back a
little bit of time, maybe I'mshowing my age a little bit, but
boy, if someone had a milliondollars, they were set for life.
Nowadays, you don't hear thesestories about, oh, this person
just became a millionaire.
There's actually a lot ofmillionaires, and in most cases,
once again, but dependent upontheir income objectives, the
(14:59):
needs that they have, when weask about how much is enough,
Well, what's the lifestyle youwant to live in your retirement?
So a million dollars, if youwant $150,000, $200,000 a year
of spendable income,
Brian Minier (15:14):
you
Ed Beemiller (15:14):
better plan on a really short retirement.
Brian Minier (15:16):
That's right.
And not only that, what othersources do you have?
Correct.
I have some folks that I workwith, I know you guys do too,
that Social Security and luckyenough to have a pension or two,
game over.
It's solved.
They don't even need to dipinto anything because...
that amount that they need tokeep the lights on is covered by
those mailbox money checksevery single month.
Ed Beemiller (15:37):
And I know it's a question you always ask.
It's the old saying that youcan't take it with you.
So you have to identify, well,how much do you want, but how
much do you want to leavebehind?
Whether it's for your kids, afavorite charity, or something
like that, the whole legacy sideof that equation.
Because then if they have thoseadditional assets, hey, good
for them.
But you either spend it andenjoy yourself, or...
(16:00):
You have a plan together tosay, all right, I want to leave
X amount of money to each of mykids, grandkids, or I have a
favorite charity.
Brian Minier (16:07):
That's right.
Your money is going to go tothree places.
It's going to go to yourfamily.
It's going to go to a charityor it's going to go in the form
of taxes.
Ed Beemiller (16:15):
Yeah.
The government.
Brian Minier (16:16):
That's right.
You can control two of those.
Ed Beemiller (16:18):
Right.
Brian Minier (16:18):
Right.
So to your, to your point, notonly do you want to leave money,
but how do you want to leavethat money?
Because there's different taxramifications.
Ryan talked a little bit abouttax planning that we can help
with.
But that can create a wholeother set of circumstances
depending on how you leave thatmoney.
Ryan Fleming (16:36):
Now, let's say that a client has cleanly
defined what their desiredlifestyle number is.
Maybe it's $10,000 a monthafter tax.
We have a clear definition ofwhat they desire to live on.
Maybe let's speak to the factof, well, okay, how do you start
to distribute your money?
Should we do the 4% rule?
(16:56):
Should we use...
an income annuity?
Is it more important to nottouch the principal?
Maybe we can speak to that alittle bit because I hear that a
lot.
I hear people that come in thatsay, well, I'm just going to
take 4% and leave the principal.
But then we follow a lot ofother really, really smart in
(17:20):
our industry, you know, like Dr.
Wade Pfau, they may saysomething different.
So, like, for example, I have alot of people say, well, I'm
just going to distribute my $2million and take 4% because X,
Y, and Z advisor ran a MonteCarlo example and said that if I
just get average returns of themarket that I have an 85%
(17:43):
chance of not running out ofmoney.
And that could work, right?
And the sequence of how thosereturns come in could work out
even better.
But, you know, There's theother side of the house where
somebody like a Dr.
Wade Pfau and some of theacademia that's out there that
would say perhaps you shouldconsider buying a guaranteed
income pension annuity becauseit's considerably cheaper to
(18:05):
solve your income with way morecertainty.
Yeah, you minimize or mitigateor eliminate risk in terms of
that annuity.
satisfying the income objectivethat you need for retirement.
Yeah, and I think the point I'mtrying to drive is that
there's, when people ask, whenam I going to be able to retire?
There's a whole subset ofquestions like what I just said.
(18:27):
Are we going to solve it withthe 4%?
Is it really 4%?
I mean, somebody like SusieOrman might say it's closer to
3%.
Dr.
Wade Pfau and other expertsmight say, well, it's much
cheaper to solve it bypurchasing a guaranteed pension
income annuity and have absolutecertainty you'll never run out
of money and maybe leave$300,000, $400,000 that you're
(18:50):
You can invest into the marketto hedge inflation.
So there's a lot of differentways to solve once we get the
income desired number from theclient that maybe you have to
cross
Brian Minier (19:04):
that.
You have to start off with whatis the desired amount.
I mean, how many times have youbeen asked, well, can I retire?
Well, what is your incomeobjective, right?
You can't answer that questionwithout telling us what you
want.
So let's say, to your point,you get there.
You know, $10,000 after taxes,that's the bogey.
Well, do you look at that 4%rule?
(19:25):
And that is a very common waythat a lot of larger firms will
have their advisors implementthat practice.
And can that work?
Potentially, especially if youhave a lot of money saved.
But the question that Ialways...
Ask back is, does it optimizeyour plan?
Just because it works, andmaybe it does, maybe it doesn't,
(19:46):
it depends on what the marketdoes.
It depends on if you get areally significant market
downturn like we had in 2008.
So you have to...
consider all those but theneven more important does it
optimize your plan yeah so youmay not run out but does it
leave you with the ability toleave an inheritance as you
(20:09):
asked earlier does it does itgive you the ability to give
philanthropically to tonon-profits so it's it's more
than just the four percent it'show do you customize that plan
that we've talked about beforeand to optimize what you have.
Some people are just greatwith, okay, I have enough.
I don't really care.
(20:29):
And you got to press them of,but does this optimize what you
can do, not only for yourself,but for generations and
nonprofits and things like that.
Ed Beemiller (20:39):
It's really about, you know, having, making sure
you have appropriate allocationof your assets and then
something that I know you guystalk about, and Brian, I know
you talk a lot about it, isdistribution planning.
Everyone focuses on, hey,here's how you build wealth, but
very few...
focus on, well, how am I goingto spend that down?
And once again,
Brian Minier (21:00):
get back to- I got a 20% return, as you said in a
prior episode.
What's the
Ed Beemiller (21:03):
optimal way to spend down?
Which account do we pull from?
How do we offset if we'retaking 4% out from a
market-based account after a 20,30% correction?
You need to have appropriateasset allocation within some
fixed income to help buffer
Brian Minier (21:20):
Yeah,
Ed Beemiller (21:21):
for sure.
Those periods of time.
For
Brian Minier (21:22):
sure.
Ryan Fleming (21:22):
And part of our mission statement is, as we
said, that we want to bringconfidence and certainty.
Right.
So relative to this retirement4% rule, think about it.
I mean, if you had a milliondollars, you use the 4% rule
adjusted for inflation, you pullout 40 grand your first year.
Okay?
But that's...
That's expensive.
That's a very expensive and anot 100% ironclad way to get it.
(21:45):
It could work out in yourfavor, but we just don't know
what the rates are.
And like I
Brian Minier (21:49):
said, even if it does work, it doesn't mean you
put the best thing forward.
Ryan Fleming (21:53):
But that same $40,000 could be generated,
let's just say, by maybe only$600,000 and purchasing a
guaranteed income lifetimeannuity and thus leaving you
another $400,000 on the sidelinethat you can invest.
But that's That pension thatwas created by that annuity is
guaranteed for life, no matterwhat the market does.
(22:16):
And so you just got to weighthose back and forth with our
clients to not only answer theirquestion, but to also, like you
said, maximize.
These are something we do on aweekly basis for our clients.
And ultimately, our business asfinancial professionals, as
planners, is helping our clientsget from point A to point B.
In most cases, point B isretirement.
(22:37):
right?
So you could argue that this isthe most important question
that we face, right?
Because why do people plan?
Why do the people plan and whydo they build wealth and save
money?
Once again, we've talked aboutthis.
Well, so at some point, theyhave the opportunity.
They're in control of deciding,all right, I want to leave my
(22:58):
job.
I'm ready to retire.
And it all comes back to Can Iretire?
And those are the questionsthat we basically have to solve
for them.
you know, through the process.
Brian Minier (23:12):
They want to feel like they have the certainty,
but unfortunately a lot of timesthey don't know what other
questions to ask.
Correct.
That's what we help with.
Ryan Fleming (23:20):
So if you're watching this today or you're
driving on the road and you'relistening to us and you've got
questions or uncertainty aboutyour retirement plan, your
desired lifestyle number, ormaybe there's people that you've
come across just in passing atthe ball game, somebody that you
met at work or something likethat.
If you Do you want more clarityon your questions about
(23:44):
retirement and sustainableincomes and the things that
we've talked about here today?
I would say, you know, Sharethis with somebody.
Pass it on.
Give us a shout.
And I would encourage you tostay tuned.
The next couple episodes, whatwe're going to cover are a
couple other very importantquestions that we hear time and
time and time again.
(24:04):
And we're going to addressthose in detail as well, too.
But as always, we thank you somuch for tuning in and
listening.
And don't forget to huddle upwith us next time.
Brian Minier (24:15):
Nice segue.
Ryan Fleming (24:17):
I like that.
Take care, everybody.
See you soon.
The Financial Huddle does not provide tax, legal,
financial, or other professionaladvice.
Listeners are encouraged toconsult with their own advisors
in these areas.
All right, everybody, huddleup.
The play calls in.
This is The Financial Huddle.
Ed Beemiller (00:12):
Ready, break.
Welcome, everyone, to our nextepisode of The Financial Huddle
Podcast.
Brian Minier (00:19):
Let's get it.
What's up, everybody?
Ed Beemiller (00:21):
Where we intertwine sports...
in financial topics.
You've got to call the rightplay in the huddle, Ed.
I think we finally, theweather's getting warmer, a lot
warmer.
We're heading into summertime,and with that, I know, Brian,
things have changed a bit inyour household.
You now have two college kidsthat are
Brian Minier (00:41):
home.
How's all that going?
I'll tell you, you miss them,and you know this, man.
You experience this.
You miss them when they'regone, and then you're glad when
they come home, but when they'rehome for about a week, you're
like, I'm ready for this.
for you to to maybe just comeback on the weekends
Ed Beemiller (00:57):
yeah you know certain things clothes are just
dropped in the middle of floorsyou know they ask well what's
for dinner and you look at themand say i don't know you tell me
right i mean they're they'reyoung adults but they still want
the comforts of you knowstaying at the holiday inn
express
Brian Minier (01:11):
that's right i think when my oldest come home i
i came home from work and hehad gotten home before me and
there were like five or sixdifferent bags in the hallway
Ed Beemiller (01:19):
yeah
Brian Minier (01:20):
and you know
Ed Beemiller (01:21):
and then they complain at dinner there's
nothing for there's no food toeat Yeah,
Brian Minier (01:25):
you've been there.
I've been there.
Been there, done that.
That's right.
Ryan Fleming (01:28):
Now, Ryan, same with you.
You've still got two runningaround.
You do got one that came home,but only for a little bit,
though, right?
Yeah.
My son, he's staying up inCleveland working, getting ready
for that internship.
My daughter, she's working twojobs, so she's busy, busy trying
to save that money for college.
(01:49):
You know, it's bittersweet.
Going on to be a Bobcat nextyear.
That's right.
University Bobcats.
Watch out.
Here we go.
I think in her heart of hearts,she's ready to get out.
But we're going to miss her.
So we're trying to soak up asmuch time as we can, man.
She's the only girl in myfamily in 60 years.
So no Fleming girls.
So...
(02:10):
Maybe a little extra specialtouch.
So what you're saying, she'sgot a lot of pressure on her.
Bittersweet, man.
That's right.
Bittersweet.
Right?
Yep.
Well, good.
As a financial planning firm,Keystone Financial, first and
foremost, I want to make sureeveryone, we greatly appreciate
you listening in.
As Ryan has said, we've saidbefore, please share this with
(02:32):
friends, family, cohorts.
We're out to provide thatinformation, that education.
We're out to provide thatinformation.
to build financial literacy.
And in our firm, in ourindustry, there's certain
questions that are always asked.
When we have a first meetingwith a client, one of the first
(02:54):
questions they often ask is,Ryan.
Yeah, by far the number onequestion I get is, hey Ryan,
when can we retire?
When am I going to be able toretire?
Tomorrow?
Yeah, tomorrow, yesterday.
And it's a very valid question,and it's a very loaded
question.
So what I did, I thought thiswould be good information for
(03:17):
our listeners out there.
It was actually educational tome, too.
I went to my best friend, Chad.
Chad GPT.
I like him.
He's a good dude.
I mean, this guy's a greathuman.
He's growing into his own.
He
Brian Minier (03:28):
really is.
He constantly evolves.
Ryan Fleming (03:31):
Yes.
Ever-changing and evolving.
He might be trending towards mybest friend.
Oh, there you go.
But old chat, I asked a littlebit about this, and these are
some things that I thought wereinteresting that you guys might
not know.
Well, most people, theyobviously don't know their
number.
That's why they ask us all thetime.
(03:51):
But according to NorthwesternMutual and a study done in 2023,
55% of Americans, they have noidea what they need to retire.
I guess that's why they'reasking us so many times, right?
They need a plan.
You wouldn't get on a roadtrip.
not knowing what thedestination was, would you?
So retirement works that sameway.
(04:13):
Another stat, as we know and wehear all the time, people are
living a lot longer.
You do a lot with SocialSecurity.
That was pretty much founded ona life expectancy of 65.
Brian Minier (04:25):
Well, 63.
You could take Social Securityat 65, but your life expectancy
was 63.
Ouch.
Something
Ryan Fleming (04:33):
wrong with that number.
Brian Minier (04:33):
Yeah, it changed a little bit, morphed into
something a little bitdifferent.
Ryan Fleming (04:37):
That's an oxy moron.
Well, Well, 65-year-old today,they got a 50% chance of living
past 85.
And if you're 65 years oldtoday, you have a 25% chance of
living past 92.
This is from the Society ofActuaries.
Retirement really isn't a10-year sprint anymore, fellas.
And our clients need to knowthis.
(04:57):
I mean, parents, some of theparents that I work with with
college planning, I mean, theymay live another 25, 30, 35
years.
And so it's a marathon, andthat money's got It's got to
last forever.
the retirement age myth.
A lot of people, they don'tunderstand this, but 40% of
retirements say that theyretired earlier than they had
(05:20):
planned to.
And that can happen for amyriad of different reasons.
But a lot of times, most of thetime, it's due to like health
issues or layoffs.
And it could be health issuesof like, you might be healthy,
but your parents are unhealthyand you're forced to go help
them.
Or a spouse.
Or a spouse, that's right.
And you may not get to choosewhen you retire is really the
moral.
But Yeah.
(05:42):
You got to be prepared forthat.
And most Americans, as we know,are grossly underprepared.
And to put some metrics tothat, the median retirement
savings for Americans today, age55 to age 64, that range right
there is just $134,000.
And this is from the FederalReserve of Consumer Finances in
(06:04):
2022.
Just to put that into context,if you had that amount of money,
that would provide less than$600 a month in income for life
and if you just think about thatfor a moment i mean that's kind
of scary and you can understandwhy people ask me that so much
i'm sure you get asked that somuch there's a lot of angst
(06:26):
there's a lot of unknown butthat's a big hairy question to
it's a complicated question sonow ryan you uh you have a very
unique uh retirement story.
A lot of people don't knowthis.
It probably hits a littlepersonal.
It hits home.
It is.
A lot of people don't knowthis, but I've already retired
one time in my life.
Congrats.
Brian Minier (06:47):
Did they throw a party for you?
Ryan Fleming (06:49):
No.
Brian Minier (06:50):
No
Ryan Fleming (06:51):
party?
I thought they might, but theydidn't.
The reason why I'm repping myPhillies jersey here is that
actually the story, it'semotional for me.
It's very personal.
Since I was a little boy, I hadthis dream of playing
professional baseball.
I really meant it.
There's stuff my mom has shownme when I was in kindergarten,
(07:13):
first grade.
My whole childhood and comingup through middle school and
high school, I really, reallywanted to play professional
baseball.
And by the grace of God, I wasgranted that opportunity for
many, many years, played 10years of professional baseball.
And the last team I played forwas the Philadelphia Phillies.
I had played for threeorganizations.
(07:35):
The Toronto Blue Jays gave memy chance.
They made my childhood dreamcame true and drafted me out of
the University of Dayton.
I got a chance to play for theTexas Rangers for a brief amount
of time.
But I finished my last fouryears with the Philadelphia
Phillies organization.
And make no mistake about it,when you get into professional
baseball, You know that at somepoint in time, whether you're
going to be a Hall of Famer oryou flame out in a rookie ball
(07:59):
or something, you're not goingto play forever.
Your time's coming to an end.
And I was no different.
I knew that it was going tocome to an end at some point in
time.
But April 1 of 2007, I wasforced to retire from the game,
so to speak.
So, like you talked about,forced early retirement.
It wasn't necessarily yourdecision.
(08:19):
Yeah, it's interestingbecause...
you know it's a business as weall know I didn't want to retire
I still my body felt good I washealthy I I didn't have a lot
of injuries but I got called inthe office the last day of
spring training and theybasically said man We love you.
It's a business.
We invited way too many peopleinto spring training.
(08:40):
We're not going to send youback to double A, and we're
going to have to let you go.
So you didn't get the BullDurham treatment?
I didn't get the Bull Durhamtreatment.
You went down to mentor thatrising flamethrower.
Well, Crash Davis still wastrying to set the home run
record.
Home run record, yes.
I never was known for my homerun prowess.
So anyways, long story short,they said, we've got to let you
(09:03):
go.
But ironically, they all said,we've got to let you go.
offer me a job in the samebreath.
They said, hey, we would lovefor you to stay here and be part
of the organization.
I declined right on the spot.
I literally resigned right onthe spot.
I didn't go ask my wife.
We had two small children.
She had given up 10 years ofher life.
Although I could have gottenrehired back again right away, I
(09:27):
retired from that sport andwalked away from that.
Sometimes in life, we knowwhat's coming, but we're not
prepared for it.
And it's no different with ourclients.
They know that they want toretire.
They just don't know how orwhat or where or when.
And that's our job.
And so I'll retire againsomeday, maybe.
(09:48):
But I got one underneath thebelt.
Not before me.
Well, we'll see.
Yeah, you are the elderstatesman.
That's great.
You are the elder statesman,even though you have less gray
hair than all of us, believe itor not.
But, you know, that got methinking, you know, When I talk
to my clients about retirement,I know you talk a lot about the
same exact question.
And like we talked about onprior episodes, one of the
(10:10):
things you work a lot with andhad done in the past are
business owners.
Well, their retirementquestions and their retirement
strategies are a whole differentset of circumstances than maybe
a traditional W-2 employee.
So what are some of the exitstrategies or questions you hear
from business owners aboutretirement?
And working with a businessowner, it's very unique.
(10:31):
opposed to just a normalindividual that has a w-2 type
paying job because they spenttheir entire life building up a
business they have employeesthey want to make sure you know
the employees are treated rightand there's really three
(10:53):
different types of successionplanning And once again, it
depends on the size of thebusiness.
And is this a business that isgoing to survive them from
removing themselves?
And at the end of the day,retirement is about one thing, I
always say.
That's income.
Paychecks.
Paychecks.
You've got to have that incometo pay the expenses to live your
(11:16):
retirement lifestyle.
So even a business owner justcan't say, all right, yeah, I'm
just going to walk away, unless,of course, he's done a great
job throughout the process ofbasically accumulating wealth
and investing correctly, havinga plan, which is obviously where
we come in.
But for many business owners,the company's their baby.
It's their child.
(11:36):
And so they're very concernedabout leaving it in good hands.
Many small, mid-sized businessowners are able to have family
members.
Often it's their children, kindof that second generation that
they can basically pass thebusiness to.
(11:56):
And often that can also be partof the retirement income need.
for the present owner, wherethey buy that out over a period
of time.
That comes with a lot ofdifferent issues and
complexities, because how manychildren do you have, and is it
(12:16):
a single owner versus two orthree owners, and are all their
kids going to come into thebusiness, which a lot of times,
honestly, from what I've seen inmy past experience, can be a
nightmare.
It's complex.
Oh, it's complicated.
There's attorneys, there's...
CPAs, there's a lot of peopleinvolved in that.
Another exit strategy isselling to basically key
(12:43):
management or key employeeswithin the company.
It's a little different than,obviously, a generational sale,
but the same type of thing.
You have people that have beeninvolved in the business and
have risen up.
understand the business andthat can often be a very
seamless transition but onceagain the owner kind of his
(13:04):
succession planning is oftenpaid out over a period of time
so that the business can thecash flow can actually pay that
and then the third one is justan outside third-party purchase
you know in most cases thebusiness owners there they just
want their money they're notwilling to take money back on a
buyout provision but at the endof the day what we have to do
(13:26):
just like an individual becauseat that point they're an
individual right they justhappen to own a business we have
to be able to have a plantogether once again that creates
that income sufficient toenable them to further lifestyle
and you know you talk to peoplethat are like From these social
security workshops that are atthe end.
(13:46):
I mean, they're getting readyto retire.
Getting close.
Yeah.
Brian Minier (13:49):
Some of them,
Ryan Fleming (13:49):
yeah.
Is there like a certain numberthat, you know, do they ask you
certain questions?
Yeah, I
Brian Minier (13:54):
love the question of what is the number that I
need?
That's
Ryan Fleming (13:58):
what they
Brian Minier (13:59):
say.
And it's not only just thefolks that are getting close to
social security.
You'll see this with people intheir 40s, early 50s, and
they're like, oh, this is goingto come before I know it.
It's going to be here beforeI'm a blank and I'm going to be
there.
And they'll say, well, what isthe number?
I'm sure you guys get thatquestion as well, right?
(14:19):
Like, what's the number that Ineed?
Remember those old commercialsthat would say, what's your
number?
And that's just so arbitrary ofwhat is the number that I need.
It's like, I got to dig alittle bit more.
You got to tell me a little bitmore about.
What's your lifestyle?
Ed Beemiller (14:36):
I remember hearing, and this goes back a
little bit of time, maybe I'mshowing my age a little bit, but
boy, if someone had a milliondollars, they were set for life.
Nowadays, you don't hear thesestories about, oh, this person
just became a millionaire.
There's actually a lot ofmillionaires, and in most cases,
once again, but dependent upontheir income objectives, the
(14:59):
needs that they have, when weask about how much is enough,
Well, what's the lifestyle youwant to live in your retirement?
So a million dollars, if youwant $150,000, $200,000 a year
of spendable income,
Brian Minier (15:14):
you
Ed Beemiller (15:14):
better plan on a really short retirement.
Brian Minier (15:16):
That's right.
And not only that, what othersources do you have?
Correct.
I have some folks that I workwith, I know you guys do too,
that Social Security and luckyenough to have a pension or two,
game over.
It's solved.
They don't even need to dipinto anything because...
that amount that they need tokeep the lights on is covered by
those mailbox money checksevery single month.
Ed Beemiller (15:37):
And I know it's a question you always ask.
It's the old saying that youcan't take it with you.
So you have to identify, well,how much do you want, but how
much do you want to leavebehind?
Whether it's for your kids, afavorite charity, or something
like that, the whole legacy sideof that equation.
Because then if they have thoseadditional assets, hey, good
for them.
But you either spend it andenjoy yourself, or...
(16:00):
You have a plan together tosay, all right, I want to leave
X amount of money to each of mykids, grandkids, or I have a
favorite charity.
Brian Minier (16:07):
That's right.
Your money is going to go tothree places.
It's going to go to yourfamily.
It's going to go to a charityor it's going to go in the form
of taxes.
Ed Beemiller (16:15):
Yeah.
The government.
Brian Minier (16:16):
That's right.
You can control two of those.
Ed Beemiller (16:18):
Right.
Brian Minier (16:18):
Right.
So to your, to your point, notonly do you want to leave money,
but how do you want to leavethat money?
Because there's different taxramifications.
Ryan talked a little bit abouttax planning that we can help
with.
But that can create a wholeother set of circumstances
depending on how you leave thatmoney.
Ryan Fleming (16:36):
Now, let's say that a client has cleanly
defined what their desiredlifestyle number is.
Maybe it's $10,000 a monthafter tax.
We have a clear definition ofwhat they desire to live on.
Maybe let's speak to the factof, well, okay, how do you start
to distribute your money?
Should we do the 4% rule?
(16:56):
Should we use...
an income annuity?
Is it more important to nottouch the principal?
Maybe we can speak to that alittle bit because I hear that a
lot.
I hear people that come in thatsay, well, I'm just going to
take 4% and leave the principal.
But then we follow a lot ofother really, really smart in
(17:20):
our industry, you know, like Dr.
Wade Pfau, they may saysomething different.
So, like, for example, I have alot of people say, well, I'm
just going to distribute my $2million and take 4% because X,
Y, and Z advisor ran a MonteCarlo example and said that if I
just get average returns of themarket that I have an 85%
(17:43):
chance of not running out ofmoney.
And that could work, right?
And the sequence of how thosereturns come in could work out
even better.
But, you know, There's theother side of the house where
somebody like a Dr.
Wade Pfau and some of theacademia that's out there that
would say perhaps you shouldconsider buying a guaranteed
income pension annuity becauseit's considerably cheaper to
(18:05):
solve your income with way morecertainty.
Yeah, you minimize or mitigateor eliminate risk in terms of
that annuity.
satisfying the income objectivethat you need for retirement.
Yeah, and I think the point I'mtrying to drive is that
there's, when people ask, whenam I going to be able to retire?
There's a whole subset ofquestions like what I just said.
(18:27):
Are we going to solve it withthe 4%?
Is it really 4%?
I mean, somebody like SusieOrman might say it's closer to
3%.
Dr.
Wade Pfau and other expertsmight say, well, it's much
cheaper to solve it bypurchasing a guaranteed pension
income annuity and have absolutecertainty you'll never run out
of money and maybe leave$300,000, $400,000 that you're
(18:50):
You can invest into the marketto hedge inflation.
So there's a lot of differentways to solve once we get the
income desired number from theclient that maybe you have to
cross
Brian Minier (19:04):
that.
You have to start off with whatis the desired amount.
I mean, how many times have youbeen asked, well, can I retire?
Well, what is your incomeobjective, right?
You can't answer that questionwithout telling us what you
want.
So let's say, to your point,you get there.
You know, $10,000 after taxes,that's the bogey.
Well, do you look at that 4%rule?
(19:25):
And that is a very common waythat a lot of larger firms will
have their advisors implementthat practice.
And can that work?
Potentially, especially if youhave a lot of money saved.
But the question that Ialways...
Ask back is, does it optimizeyour plan?
Just because it works, andmaybe it does, maybe it doesn't,
(19:46):
it depends on what the marketdoes.
It depends on if you get areally significant market
downturn like we had in 2008.
So you have to...
consider all those but theneven more important does it
optimize your plan yeah so youmay not run out but does it
leave you with the ability toleave an inheritance as you
(20:09):
asked earlier does it does itgive you the ability to give
philanthropically to tonon-profits so it's it's more
than just the four percent it'show do you customize that plan
that we've talked about beforeand to optimize what you have.
Some people are just greatwith, okay, I have enough.
I don't really care.
(20:29):
And you got to press them of,but does this optimize what you
can do, not only for yourself,but for generations and
nonprofits and things like that.
Ed Beemiller (20:39):
It's really about, you know, having, making sure
you have appropriate allocationof your assets and then
something that I know you guystalk about, and Brian, I know
you talk a lot about it, isdistribution planning.
Everyone focuses on, hey,here's how you build wealth, but
very few...
focus on, well, how am I goingto spend that down?
And once again,
Brian Minier (21:00):
get back to- I got a 20% return, as you said in a
prior episode.
What's the
Ed Beemiller (21:03):
optimal way to spend down?
Which account do we pull from?
How do we offset if we'retaking 4% out from a
market-based account after a 20,30% correction?
You need to have appropriateasset allocation within some
fixed income to help buffer
Brian Minier (21:20):
Yeah,
Ed Beemiller (21:21):
for sure.
Those periods of time.
For
Brian Minier (21:22):
sure.
Ryan Fleming (21:22):
And part of our mission statement is, as we
said, that we want to bringconfidence and certainty.
Right.
So relative to this retirement4% rule, think about it.
I mean, if you had a milliondollars, you use the 4% rule
adjusted for inflation, you pullout 40 grand your first year.
Okay?
But that's...
That's expensive.
That's a very expensive and anot 100% ironclad way to get it.
(21:45):
It could work out in yourfavor, but we just don't know
what the rates are.
And like I
Brian Minier (21:49):
said, even if it does work, it doesn't mean you
put the best thing forward.
Ryan Fleming (21:53):
But that same $40,000 could be generated,
let's just say, by maybe only$600,000 and purchasing a
guaranteed income lifetimeannuity and thus leaving you
another $400,000 on the sidelinethat you can invest.
But that's That pension thatwas created by that annuity is
guaranteed for life, no matterwhat the market does.
(22:16):
And so you just got to weighthose back and forth with our
clients to not only answer theirquestion, but to also, like you
said, maximize.
These are something we do on aweekly basis for our clients.
And ultimately, our business asfinancial professionals, as
planners, is helping our clientsget from point A to point B.
In most cases, point B isretirement.
(22:37):
right?
So you could argue that this isthe most important question
that we face, right?
Because why do people plan?
Why do the people plan and whydo they build wealth and save
money?
Once again, we've talked aboutthis.
Well, so at some point, theyhave the opportunity.
They're in control of deciding,all right, I want to leave my
(22:58):
job.
I'm ready to retire.
And it all comes back to Can Iretire?
And those are the questionsthat we basically have to solve
for them.
you know, through the process.
Brian Minier (23:12):
They want to feel like they have the certainty,
but unfortunately a lot of timesthey don't know what other
questions to ask.
Correct.
That's what we help with.
Ryan Fleming (23:20):
So if you're watching this today or you're
driving on the road and you'relistening to us and you've got
questions or uncertainty aboutyour retirement plan, your
desired lifestyle number, ormaybe there's people that you've
come across just in passing atthe ball game, somebody that you
met at work or something likethat.
If you Do you want more clarityon your questions about
(23:44):
retirement and sustainableincomes and the things that
we've talked about here today?
I would say, you know, Sharethis with somebody.
Pass it on.
Give us a shout.
And I would encourage you tostay tuned.
The next couple episodes, whatwe're going to cover are a
couple other very importantquestions that we hear time and
time and time again.
(24:04):
And we're going to addressthose in detail as well, too.
But as always, we thank you somuch for tuning in and
listening.
And don't forget to huddle upwith us next time.
Brian Minier (24:15):
Nice segue.
Ryan Fleming (24:17):
I like that.
Take care, everybody.
See you soon.
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