September 3, 2025 • 19 mins
Welcome back to The Financial Huddle! In this episode, Ryan, Ed, and Brian kick things off with the rise of pickleball, from neighborhood courts to Bainbridge Island’s Hall of Fame. But beyond the sport, pickleball serves as the perfect analogy for today’s topic: fiduciary duty.
We break down:
- What it really means to be a fiduciary and why it matters to you.
- The difference between “suitable” advice and acting in your best interest.
- The history of fiduciary standards, from Roman law to the Investment Advisors Act of 1940.
- Common myths, marketing buzzwords, and what you should actually look for in a financial professional.
At the end of the day, it’s about trust, confidence, and knowing the game is being played for your success.
Join the Huddle Nation for a conversation that’s part education, part storytelling, and 100% focused on helping you make smarter financial decisions.
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Disclosure: Information contained in this podcast is for entertainment and informational purposes only, and should not be considered as financial advice. Financial Planning and Advisory Services are offered through Prosperity Capital Advisors (“PCA”), an SEC registered investment adviser. Registration as an investment adviser does not imply a certain level of skill or training. Keystone Financial Group and PCA are separate, non- affiliated entities. PCA does not provide tax or legal advice.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Announcer (00:00):
The Financial Huddle does not provide tax, legal,
financial, or other professionaladvice.
Listeners are encouraged toconsult with their own advisors
in these areas.
All right, everybody, huddleup.
The play calls in.
This is The Financial Huddle.
Ready, break.
Ryan Fleming (00:15):
Yes, sir, everybody.
I want to welcome you back tothe Financial Huddle.
I'm going to make a declarationon today's podcast.
Our listeners, our belovedlisteners, from now on moving
forward, we're going to callthem the huddlers, right?
What do you think about that?
Brian Minier (00:28):
Huddler Nation.
Huddler Nation.
Huddler Nation.
Welcome to the Huddle Nation.
Ryan Fleming (00:32):
Yeah.
Hello, hello.
Welcome, everybody.
Certainly hope you and yourloved ones are doing well today.
Again, Ryan Fleming, Ed Beemiller, Brian Minier here.
Excited to bring back and havejust a little bit of a
conversation today.
and get a little educated, Ithink, on a topic.
You know, one thing that I'vebeen educated on myself here in
(00:52):
the past year or so is thisidea, this rampant idea of
pickleball.
It's insane.
Ed Beemiller (01:00):
Sweeping the nation.
Ryan Fleming (01:01):
It's sweeping the nation.
It's in my neighborhood.
Everyone's turning theirdriveway or space into a
pickleball court.
And this reminded me ofsomething, and I understand why,
because my mom, she turned 70years old a few years ago and
was a dream for whatever reasonto go to Seattle.
She'd never been to Seattle.
She loved the Seahawks growingup.
I have no idea why, but mybrother and I were able to make
(01:23):
that happen.
She loved it.
And while I was out there, Idid not know this, but the
origination of the sport ofpickleball is on Bainbridge
Island, which is right acrossthe bay.
We took a ferry over there.
It was beautiful, but there wasliterally a pickleball hall of
fame.
Walked through there, learnedquite a lot about that.
(01:43):
And one thing that I've alsolearned over the past year or so
is that you are a huge fan ofpickleball.
Ed Beemiller (01:51):
I would agree with that assessment.
Not only am I a big fan ofpickleball, but my wife is what
you would call a pickleballzealot.
She has gotten a bug and thensome, but it's something that a
lot of people talk about it andsay, oh, it's just for old
people.
I'm going to make a statementto say, well, it's not.
(02:15):
My kids play, and when we'reout playing, there's a lot of...
of the younger generation outthere.
And I try to play a couple oftimes a week.
As you know, some of my hobbiesare pickleball now and cycling
and a few other things, but Thisweek actually had a, something
(02:37):
reminded me when you're talkingabout this, had a game, just a
drop-in at a local park that Igo to and play, where when you
do a drop-in, you can play withanyone.
You put your paddles down andbasically-
Ryan Fleming (02:53):
It's like open gym.
Ed Beemiller (02:53):
Yeah.
The next two up or the nextthree, four up, depending on how
many are needed in the court,go up.
So sometimes you get pairedwith, you can get paired with a
teenager, you can get on theopposite end, you can get paired
with, I mean, there's some80-year-olds that are out there
playing.
And a lot of people laugh aboutit, but let me tell you, some
of these 70- and 80-year-olds,they're pretty good.
(03:14):
Now, the biggest thing,obviously, as we get a little
bit older, which we all know, isyou have some difficulty moving
around and covering space.
So, you know, one thing, I hada game this week, and as the
paddles ended up, I paired witha 75-year-old gentleman who's
(03:38):
actually a very good skilledplayer but has limitations on
mobility.
And there's a lot of movement,quick movement with pickleball.
And you somewhat have to adjusthow you play depending upon who
you're playing with.
And the reason why you do thatis obviously I'm competitive.
(03:59):
We're all very competitive.
Of course.
Given our backgrounds.
So ultimately you'd like towin.
No, it's not all about winning.
Ryan Fleming (04:08):
Oh, it's about winning it.
But yeah, you'd like to- At theleast, it's a very big part.
Yeah, it's a big part.
Cardio's the byproduct.
Ed Beemiller (04:16):
Yeah, I'd like to get some exercise and sweat a
little bit.
But in this case, I adjusted mygame- to do what's in the best
interest of giving us thehighest chance to succeed.
So that meant, you know,covering more ground, maybe
instead of, you know, bangingeverything.
And that's the term inpickleball, a banger.
(04:37):
A banger is someone who justhits every shot as hard as they
can.
And there's, as you progressand get up in, you know,
increase in talent and skilllevel, it becomes more of a
softer game where you're, you'veheard the term dinking, you
know, and if you're you'replaying with someone older, if
you're just a banger, that'sdifficult for them just because
(05:00):
reaction time and everythingelse.
So you try to slow the gamedown a little bit.
Ryan Fleming (05:05):
Well, did you guys win?
Ed Beemiller (05:05):
Of course we won.
Of course we won.
But it was a really close game.
It was a good game.
But I had to kind of adjustwhat I was doing to do what was
in the best interest, as I said,of us trying to win that game.
And game to game, it'sdifferent.
But, you know, that reminded meof kind of the topic du jour
(05:29):
today, which is the concept thatwe hear all the time.
And, you know, we talk aboutwhat are we trying to do here,
which is financial literacy.
And the topic, you know, thatwe're going to discuss here is
fiduciary.
Ryan Fleming (05:43):
Yes, I love that.
Yes.
And that's a great segue.
And that's why that's reallywhat we want to hit upon today
is this idea of like, what is afiduciary?
How How does this show up inour practice?
But I thought, just for ourlisteners, people that are
watching, one little thing thatI thought you would appreciate,
for those of you watching, is ifyou notice this right here,
(06:04):
those are...
first class pickleball paddles.
Do you call them paddles?
Ed Beemiller (06:11):
Yes, they are.
They're not called rackets.
That's tennis.
They are paddles.
Ryan Fleming (06:16):
Very nice pickleball paddle shirt today,
Edward.
Unknown (06:19):
Thank you.
Ryan Fleming (06:20):
Thank you.
No, in all seriousness, let'sget to the idea of what this
word fiduciary means, because itreally is a big buzz thing in
our industry.
And so I thought we'd educate.
And let's talk about theorigins of the word.
You know, it originated fromthe Latin root, the word called
fiducia.
And it really just That rootword means trust and confidence.
(06:41):
And it also has the word fidesin it, which we see this a lot
like in religion.
Fides means trust.
And we see this big in ourworld, fidelity, right?
Big money manager fidelity.
But it also had an originthrough Roman law.
So in ancient Roman time, Iwrote a lot of notes down about
(07:01):
this.
I want to make sure we get thisright for our listeners, is
that this idea, this wordfiduciary, referred to a type of
legal agreement where propertyrights were at odds and one
person was going to be entrustedversus not entrusted.
That person that was going tobe entrusting of that property
was called a fiduciary.
And then it moved into the 17thand 18th century in something
(07:23):
that we call the fiduciary dutyin English common law, believe
it or not.
And these English men and womenin parliament, they adopted
this idea of the fiduciary dutyin cases, civil cases,
guardianships and agents.
And so the courts recognizedthis idea.
And then as time moved on andas history moved on, we see this
(07:44):
again show up in the 19th and20th centuries.
And this is where moderncapital, investment firms,
modern markets, trust companies,they started to emerge heavily.
And a lot of the courts in theU.S.
system apply this fiduciaryprinciple to those financial
people, to those financialprofessionals who are managed
(08:06):
those assets.
And there was actually somelandmark cases that happened in
the early 1900s that begandefining the fiduciary
standards, like really what wasthe standard.
And there was really onepivotal moment in our history,
in our lifetime, that came afterthe Great Depression in 1940.
(08:27):
It was actually called theInvestment Advisors Act of 1940.
And again, this was passedafter the Great Depression.
And really what this ACT did isthat it formally established
the RIA advisors.
And, you know, we work througha registered investment advisor
here at Keystone.
And it really put the onus onRIAs to own the fiduciary duty
(08:52):
to their clients.
And it required them to act intheir best interest.
You know, you mentioned thatthrough Pickleball.
You did what you had to do.
Oh,
Ed Beemiller (09:00):
so just like Pickleball,
Ryan Fleming (09:01):
right?
Just like Pickleball, right?
And so the law codified that.
And then as you move into likemodern modern times, the
application of this idea offiduciary is absolutely central
to financial planning,investment management, you know,
ERISA retirement plans, likepension plans.
That's really very, veryimportant.
The Department of Labor and theSEC, not that long ago, back
(09:26):
like in the 2010s, really took astance on this idea of a
fiduciary practice.
And, you know, I thought thatwas interesting.
I understand where this ideacomes from because the word gets
passed around a lot and theydon't understand that there's
you know there's a type offiduciary lawful approach that
(09:47):
we have to take as professionalsbut then there's also another
type of standard that we're heldto that's called the
suitability standard and we cantalk about that maybe a little
bit or even on another episodebut you know that got me
thinking Brian I mean you dealwith people all the time have
you ever do you get this broughtup a lot Like, do people ask
(10:08):
you a lot?
Like, are you a fiduciary?
They
Brian Minier (10:10):
do.
And I'm sure you guys get thatquestion as well, but they ask
it quite a bit.
And I think a lot of it has todo with a certain commercial
that I won't name who, but thereis a certain group of advisors
who were fiduciaries.
And so people think about thatwhen they come in and maybe
they're meeting with me for thefirst time.
And, you know, as they start tovet me out a little bit, they
(10:35):
will ask.
Ed Beemiller (10:36):
There's been a significant significant uptick
in marketing and advertising.
You know, using that word,throwing it out and saying, hey,
make sure you ask yourfinancial professional, are they
a fiduciary?
Brian Minier (10:47):
Right.
And what's interesting aboutthat question, and you guys
probably know this as well,people don't even know what that
means.
They just want to hear you say,yes, I'm a fiduciary.
Ed Beemiller (10:55):
Yes.
Oh, okay.
Check the box.
And that means you're okay.
Brian Minier (10:59):
I am
Ed Beemiller (11:00):
good to go,
Ryan Fleming (11:01):
right?
So are you a fiduciary?
Brian Minier (11:02):
I am.
I hope so.
No, we, yeah.
Absolutely, fiduciary.
And I think the place to startwith that is what is a fiduciary
as far as is there a certaindesignation, a certain license
that you have?
And so I want to go through alist of those that automatically
make somebody a fiduciary.
(11:23):
So, for example, if you're aCFP, you're a fiduciary.
If you're a CFA, a charteredfinancial analyst, you're a
fiduciary.
If you're a CPA, you're afiduciary.
If you're, this is one youprobably never heard of, CIMA,
Certified Investment ManagementAnalyst, you're a fiduciary.
If you're an AIF, an AccreditedInvestment Fiduciary, or if
(11:46):
you're an IAR, I'm an IAR,Investment Advisor
Representative.
Now, here are some ones that donot make you an automatic
fiduciary.
If you're a broker or aregistered rep, if you have a
Series 7 or a 63, or if you'rean insurance agent, those do not
automatically make you afiduciary.
(12:07):
So I explain that when peopleask, well, why are you a
fiduciary?
Well, because I'm an IAR.
We have a RIA, RegisteredInvestment Advisor firm.
They oversee what we do.
And I also explain that thethree of us took an extra step
getting our certified financialfiduciary certification so that
(12:30):
we have an additionalunderstanding and level that
just gives us more awareness.
The The name is literally thename of what we're- That's
exactly right.
So I think it is one of thosethings where people do want to
hear, yes, we're a fiduciary.
We take this very seriously.
And again, I think when youjust say, yes, we are, but then
(12:52):
I think it's important toexplain the why behind
Ed Beemiller (12:54):
that.
Yep, yep.
And we talk about topics thatare misunderstood, and this
really is one of them in therealm of finance, financial
planning.
with financial professionals.
And it comes down to when youlook at that term fiduciary, it
is a legal, you have a legalresponsibility to do what's in
(13:17):
the best interest of your clientversus another term that's
thrown around quite a bit,suitability.
Is this suitable?
Well, something can besuitable, but not necessarily in
the best interest.
And we run into those thingswhere you choose a strategy or
product and I'm not saying...
that this exists, but it does.
(13:41):
You know, people say, allright, I can get this much
commission or I can, you know,I'm a captive or I can only sell
these products.
So I push these products.
Well, they may be suitable, butthey're not in the best
interest of the underlyingclient.
So you get a little bit of thatself-interest that kind of
squeezes its way into thecalculation.
Ryan Fleming (14:03):
There's some relativism in that, right?
It's an opinion.
He said, she said, when you getinto that.
And I think a part of that goesback into the root word that we
talked about, Fides, right?
That's trust, trust based onevidence.
So as a fiduciary, you shouldbe earning the trust of your
clients in many, many ways.
And that trust is important,but should not be taken
(14:25):
advantage of, right?
And so sometimes people do whatyou do say, Ed.
And sometimes people actuallydo do it.
It's like in all walks of life,you're going to have some good,
you're going to have some bad,you're going to have some things
in between.
And so as a consumer, yes, youshould be asking this, you
should be making sure youunderstand the cursory idea of
what this means, not justaccept, yes, we are.
(14:47):
So what is the evidence thatthey truly are fiduciaries?
Brian Minier (14:50):
You know, I have this conversation all the time
is being a fiduciary, you shouldhave an understanding of what
that means to have the bestinterest of that person you're
working with.
But I also tell people justbecause you're labeled a
fiduciary, if you're unethical,it doesn't matter if you're
labeled a fiduciary or not,you're going to be unethical.
So there is a level is, do Ifeel comfortable do i feel like
(15:11):
this person is honest and and soit's more than just the name
because again you i know peopleand we've heard of stories where
people were fiduciaries andunfortunately they did things
that were not in the rightinterest of
Ed Beemiller (15:23):
the people yeah this kind of gets back to you
know there's a lot of myths orstatements that are made out
there and you brought up brianthe concept of ethics well
ethics morality charactersometimes those are hard to come
by in today's world, right?
Not everyone is ethical.
The difference when you're afiduciary is it's a legal
(15:46):
responsibility.
So there is legal liabilitythat if you do not act in the
best interest.
So it is important when we talkabout, you know, and I think
people hear that idea and havesaid, all right, well, I need to
work with the fiduciary.
And I think we would all say,we agree, you know, that that
makes sense.
But underlying, you also, theold know, like, and trust, you
(16:08):
need to get to know who you'reworking with.
You need to trust them.
You need to have a relationshipwith them.
Because just because they have,you know, an acronym with some
letters, you know, all thesedifferent titles and
accreditations doesn't mean thatthey're always acting in your
best interest.
Ryan Fleming (16:28):
That's right.
So are there some prettyprominent myths versus reality
our listeners need tounderstand?
Ed Beemiller (16:32):
Well, we covered one already, which is, well, all
financial professionals arefiduciaries.
Well, Brian answered that.
They're not.
You know, And it is a goodquestion to ask.
If you're looking at differentadvisors or financial
professionals to work with,that's a legitimate question to
ask.
And another one is, okay, well,fiduciary just means you're
(16:56):
going to act ethically.
Well, no.
As I stated, a fiduciary reallyis a legal responsibility.
So it goes beyond ethics whenwe're talking about how to
handle a relationship.
And, you know, using that legalresponsibility does add another
extra layer.
(17:17):
And so that's where thedifference between the concept
of everything that's offered,you know, we go through and have
to make sure, first andforemost, that it is suitable.
And then the next layer that Ifeel really is that fiduciary
responsibility to say, allright, this is suitable, but
what's really in the bestinterest?
(17:37):
And that comes from, all right,I need to listen to my client.
What are they telling me theyneed?
All right.
Well, this could be suitable,but this other strategy here is
actually in their best interest.
It's the best thing for them.
Ryan Fleming (17:50):
Yeah.
I think about some people thatI know in the industry that I
have very high respect for thatare not on paper fiduciaries,
but I think they're some of themost amazing ethical advisors
that I've met in my entire life.
So, you know, there's that sideof the house too.
So just be because you havethis label of a fiduciary, you
(18:12):
have a CFP, doesn'tautomatically mean from a human
standpoint they're going to bedoing everything in your best
interest.
So you get that side of thehouse too.
Ed Beemiller (18:22):
And the one other thing that a lot of people, they
just associate that termfiduciary with financial
professionals.
The reality of it is there'swhole other classes out there
that also have that fiduciaryresponsibility.
Attorneys have that legalresponsibility to do what's in
your best interest.
Trustees.
(18:42):
Well, doctors is a little bitdifferent.
Hippocratic oath.
Yeah, so that's a little bitdifferent, but then corporate
directors, so there are otherareas where that fiduciary
responsibility does come intoplay.
Brian Minier (18:59):
Yeah, I think we would all agree that the
fiduciary title is good becauseit gives awareness, it gives
education, and it just tellspeople that I have taken being
ethical and understanding whatyour best needs are serious but
there's also a human element aswe all talked about even if I
have that but you don't trust meyou're not going to feel
(19:20):
comfortable working with me sowe have to not only understand
what it means but we have tomake sure that people see that
side of us that he's empatheticI can trust him and he's going
to do what's best for
Ryan Fleming (19:33):
me that's so true well with that huddlers we're
going to call this a wrapappreciate you all chiming in to
the huddle nation.
Join us next time.
We look forward to seeing youguys.
Take care.
The Financial Huddle does not provide tax, legal,
financial, or other professionaladvice.
Listeners are encouraged toconsult with their own advisors
in these areas.
All right, everybody, huddleup.
The play calls in.
This is The Financial Huddle.
Ready, break.
Ryan Fleming (00:15):
Yes, sir, everybody.
I want to welcome you back tothe Financial Huddle.
I'm going to make a declarationon today's podcast.
Our listeners, our belovedlisteners, from now on moving
forward, we're going to callthem the huddlers, right?
What do you think about that?
Brian Minier (00:28):
Huddler Nation.
Huddler Nation.
Huddler Nation.
Welcome to the Huddle Nation.
Ryan Fleming (00:32):
Yeah.
Hello, hello.
Welcome, everybody.
Certainly hope you and yourloved ones are doing well today.
Again, Ryan Fleming, Ed Beemiller, Brian Minier here.
Excited to bring back and havejust a little bit of a
conversation today.
and get a little educated, Ithink, on a topic.
You know, one thing that I'vebeen educated on myself here in
(00:52):
the past year or so is thisidea, this rampant idea of
pickleball.
It's insane.
Ed Beemiller (01:00):
Sweeping the nation.
Ryan Fleming (01:01):
It's sweeping the nation.
It's in my neighborhood.
Everyone's turning theirdriveway or space into a
pickleball court.
And this reminded me ofsomething, and I understand why,
because my mom, she turned 70years old a few years ago and
was a dream for whatever reasonto go to Seattle.
She'd never been to Seattle.
She loved the Seahawks growingup.
I have no idea why, but mybrother and I were able to make
(01:23):
that happen.
She loved it.
And while I was out there, Idid not know this, but the
origination of the sport ofpickleball is on Bainbridge
Island, which is right acrossthe bay.
We took a ferry over there.
It was beautiful, but there wasliterally a pickleball hall of
fame.
Walked through there, learnedquite a lot about that.
(01:43):
And one thing that I've alsolearned over the past year or so
is that you are a huge fan ofpickleball.
Ed Beemiller (01:51):
I would agree with that assessment.
Not only am I a big fan ofpickleball, but my wife is what
you would call a pickleballzealot.
She has gotten a bug and thensome, but it's something that a
lot of people talk about it andsay, oh, it's just for old
people.
I'm going to make a statementto say, well, it's not.
(02:15):
My kids play, and when we'reout playing, there's a lot of...
of the younger generation outthere.
And I try to play a couple oftimes a week.
As you know, some of my hobbiesare pickleball now and cycling
and a few other things, but Thisweek actually had a, something
(02:37):
reminded me when you're talkingabout this, had a game, just a
drop-in at a local park that Igo to and play, where when you
do a drop-in, you can play withanyone.
You put your paddles down andbasically-
Ryan Fleming (02:53):
It's like open gym.
Ed Beemiller (02:53):
Yeah.
The next two up or the nextthree, four up, depending on how
many are needed in the court,go up.
So sometimes you get pairedwith, you can get paired with a
teenager, you can get on theopposite end, you can get paired
with, I mean, there's some80-year-olds that are out there
playing.
And a lot of people laugh aboutit, but let me tell you, some
of these 70- and 80-year-olds,they're pretty good.
(03:14):
Now, the biggest thing,obviously, as we get a little
bit older, which we all know, isyou have some difficulty moving
around and covering space.
So, you know, one thing, I hada game this week, and as the
paddles ended up, I paired witha 75-year-old gentleman who's
(03:38):
actually a very good skilledplayer but has limitations on
mobility.
And there's a lot of movement,quick movement with pickleball.
And you somewhat have to adjusthow you play depending upon who
you're playing with.
And the reason why you do thatis obviously I'm competitive.
(03:59):
We're all very competitive.
Of course.
Given our backgrounds.
So ultimately you'd like towin.
No, it's not all about winning.
Ryan Fleming (04:08):
Oh, it's about winning it.
But yeah, you'd like to- At theleast, it's a very big part.
Yeah, it's a big part.
Cardio's the byproduct.
Ed Beemiller (04:16):
Yeah, I'd like to get some exercise and sweat a
little bit.
But in this case, I adjusted mygame- to do what's in the best
interest of giving us thehighest chance to succeed.
So that meant, you know,covering more ground, maybe
instead of, you know, bangingeverything.
And that's the term inpickleball, a banger.
(04:37):
A banger is someone who justhits every shot as hard as they
can.
And there's, as you progressand get up in, you know,
increase in talent and skilllevel, it becomes more of a
softer game where you're, you'veheard the term dinking, you
know, and if you're you'replaying with someone older, if
you're just a banger, that'sdifficult for them just because
(05:00):
reaction time and everythingelse.
So you try to slow the gamedown a little bit.
Ryan Fleming (05:05):
Well, did you guys win?
Ed Beemiller (05:05):
Of course we won.
Of course we won.
But it was a really close game.
It was a good game.
But I had to kind of adjustwhat I was doing to do what was
in the best interest, as I said,of us trying to win that game.
And game to game, it'sdifferent.
But, you know, that reminded meof kind of the topic du jour
(05:29):
today, which is the concept thatwe hear all the time.
And, you know, we talk aboutwhat are we trying to do here,
which is financial literacy.
And the topic, you know, thatwe're going to discuss here is
fiduciary.
Ryan Fleming (05:43):
Yes, I love that.
Yes.
And that's a great segue.
And that's why that's reallywhat we want to hit upon today
is this idea of like, what is afiduciary?
How How does this show up inour practice?
But I thought, just for ourlisteners, people that are
watching, one little thing thatI thought you would appreciate,
for those of you watching, is ifyou notice this right here,
(06:04):
those are...
first class pickleball paddles.
Do you call them paddles?
Ed Beemiller (06:11):
Yes, they are.
They're not called rackets.
That's tennis.
They are paddles.
Ryan Fleming (06:16):
Very nice pickleball paddle shirt today,
Edward.
Unknown (06:19):
Thank you.
Ryan Fleming (06:20):
Thank you.
No, in all seriousness, let'sget to the idea of what this
word fiduciary means, because itreally is a big buzz thing in
our industry.
And so I thought we'd educate.
And let's talk about theorigins of the word.
You know, it originated fromthe Latin root, the word called
fiducia.
And it really just That rootword means trust and confidence.
(06:41):
And it also has the word fidesin it, which we see this a lot
like in religion.
Fides means trust.
And we see this big in ourworld, fidelity, right?
Big money manager fidelity.
But it also had an originthrough Roman law.
So in ancient Roman time, Iwrote a lot of notes down about
(07:01):
this.
I want to make sure we get thisright for our listeners, is
that this idea, this wordfiduciary, referred to a type of
legal agreement where propertyrights were at odds and one
person was going to be entrustedversus not entrusted.
That person that was going tobe entrusting of that property
was called a fiduciary.
And then it moved into the 17thand 18th century in something
(07:23):
that we call the fiduciary dutyin English common law, believe
it or not.
And these English men and womenin parliament, they adopted
this idea of the fiduciary dutyin cases, civil cases,
guardianships and agents.
And so the courts recognizedthis idea.
And then as time moved on andas history moved on, we see this
(07:44):
again show up in the 19th and20th centuries.
And this is where moderncapital, investment firms,
modern markets, trust companies,they started to emerge heavily.
And a lot of the courts in theU.S.
system apply this fiduciaryprinciple to those financial
people, to those financialprofessionals who are managed
(08:06):
those assets.
And there was actually somelandmark cases that happened in
the early 1900s that begandefining the fiduciary
standards, like really what wasthe standard.
And there was really onepivotal moment in our history,
in our lifetime, that came afterthe Great Depression in 1940.
(08:27):
It was actually called theInvestment Advisors Act of 1940.
And again, this was passedafter the Great Depression.
And really what this ACT did isthat it formally established
the RIA advisors.
And, you know, we work througha registered investment advisor
here at Keystone.
And it really put the onus onRIAs to own the fiduciary duty
(08:52):
to their clients.
And it required them to act intheir best interest.
You know, you mentioned thatthrough Pickleball.
You did what you had to do.
Oh,
Ed Beemiller (09:00):
so just like Pickleball,
Ryan Fleming (09:01):
right?
Just like Pickleball, right?
And so the law codified that.
And then as you move into likemodern modern times, the
application of this idea offiduciary is absolutely central
to financial planning,investment management, you know,
ERISA retirement plans, likepension plans.
That's really very, veryimportant.
The Department of Labor and theSEC, not that long ago, back
(09:26):
like in the 2010s, really took astance on this idea of a
fiduciary practice.
And, you know, I thought thatwas interesting.
I understand where this ideacomes from because the word gets
passed around a lot and theydon't understand that there's
you know there's a type offiduciary lawful approach that
(09:47):
we have to take as professionalsbut then there's also another
type of standard that we're heldto that's called the
suitability standard and we cantalk about that maybe a little
bit or even on another episodebut you know that got me
thinking Brian I mean you dealwith people all the time have
you ever do you get this broughtup a lot Like, do people ask
(10:08):
you a lot?
Like, are you a fiduciary?
They
Brian Minier (10:10):
do.
And I'm sure you guys get thatquestion as well, but they ask
it quite a bit.
And I think a lot of it has todo with a certain commercial
that I won't name who, but thereis a certain group of advisors
who were fiduciaries.
And so people think about thatwhen they come in and maybe
they're meeting with me for thefirst time.
And, you know, as they start tovet me out a little bit, they
(10:35):
will ask.
Ed Beemiller (10:36):
There's been a significant significant uptick
in marketing and advertising.
You know, using that word,throwing it out and saying, hey,
make sure you ask yourfinancial professional, are they
a fiduciary?
Brian Minier (10:47):
Right.
And what's interesting aboutthat question, and you guys
probably know this as well,people don't even know what that
means.
They just want to hear you say,yes, I'm a fiduciary.
Ed Beemiller (10:55):
Yes.
Oh, okay.
Check the box.
And that means you're okay.
Brian Minier (10:59):
I am
Ed Beemiller (11:00):
good to go,
Ryan Fleming (11:01):
right?
So are you a fiduciary?
Brian Minier (11:02):
I am.
I hope so.
No, we, yeah.
Absolutely, fiduciary.
And I think the place to startwith that is what is a fiduciary
as far as is there a certaindesignation, a certain license
that you have?
And so I want to go through alist of those that automatically
make somebody a fiduciary.
(11:23):
So, for example, if you're aCFP, you're a fiduciary.
If you're a CFA, a charteredfinancial analyst, you're a
fiduciary.
If you're a CPA, you're afiduciary.
If you're, this is one youprobably never heard of, CIMA,
Certified Investment ManagementAnalyst, you're a fiduciary.
If you're an AIF, an AccreditedInvestment Fiduciary, or if
(11:46):
you're an IAR, I'm an IAR,Investment Advisor
Representative.
Now, here are some ones that donot make you an automatic
fiduciary.
If you're a broker or aregistered rep, if you have a
Series 7 or a 63, or if you'rean insurance agent, those do not
automatically make you afiduciary.
(12:07):
So I explain that when peopleask, well, why are you a
fiduciary?
Well, because I'm an IAR.
We have a RIA, RegisteredInvestment Advisor firm.
They oversee what we do.
And I also explain that thethree of us took an extra step
getting our certified financialfiduciary certification so that
(12:30):
we have an additionalunderstanding and level that
just gives us more awareness.
The The name is literally thename of what we're- That's
exactly right.
So I think it is one of thosethings where people do want to
hear, yes, we're a fiduciary.
We take this very seriously.
And again, I think when youjust say, yes, we are, but then
(12:52):
I think it's important toexplain the why behind
Ed Beemiller (12:54):
that.
Yep, yep.
And we talk about topics thatare misunderstood, and this
really is one of them in therealm of finance, financial
planning.
with financial professionals.
And it comes down to when youlook at that term fiduciary, it
is a legal, you have a legalresponsibility to do what's in
(13:17):
the best interest of your clientversus another term that's
thrown around quite a bit,suitability.
Is this suitable?
Well, something can besuitable, but not necessarily in
the best interest.
And we run into those thingswhere you choose a strategy or
product and I'm not saying...
that this exists, but it does.
(13:41):
You know, people say, allright, I can get this much
commission or I can, you know,I'm a captive or I can only sell
these products.
So I push these products.
Well, they may be suitable, butthey're not in the best
interest of the underlyingclient.
So you get a little bit of thatself-interest that kind of
squeezes its way into thecalculation.
Ryan Fleming (14:03):
There's some relativism in that, right?
It's an opinion.
He said, she said, when you getinto that.
And I think a part of that goesback into the root word that we
talked about, Fides, right?
That's trust, trust based onevidence.
So as a fiduciary, you shouldbe earning the trust of your
clients in many, many ways.
And that trust is important,but should not be taken
(14:25):
advantage of, right?
And so sometimes people do whatyou do say, Ed.
And sometimes people actuallydo do it.
It's like in all walks of life,you're going to have some good,
you're going to have some bad,you're going to have some things
in between.
And so as a consumer, yes, youshould be asking this, you
should be making sure youunderstand the cursory idea of
what this means, not justaccept, yes, we are.
(14:47):
So what is the evidence thatthey truly are fiduciaries?
Brian Minier (14:50):
You know, I have this conversation all the time
is being a fiduciary, you shouldhave an understanding of what
that means to have the bestinterest of that person you're
working with.
But I also tell people justbecause you're labeled a
fiduciary, if you're unethical,it doesn't matter if you're
labeled a fiduciary or not,you're going to be unethical.
So there is a level is, do Ifeel comfortable do i feel like
(15:11):
this person is honest and and soit's more than just the name
because again you i know peopleand we've heard of stories where
people were fiduciaries andunfortunately they did things
that were not in the rightinterest of
Ed Beemiller (15:23):
the people yeah this kind of gets back to you
know there's a lot of myths orstatements that are made out
there and you brought up brianthe concept of ethics well
ethics morality charactersometimes those are hard to come
by in today's world, right?
Not everyone is ethical.
The difference when you're afiduciary is it's a legal
(15:46):
responsibility.
So there is legal liabilitythat if you do not act in the
best interest.
So it is important when we talkabout, you know, and I think
people hear that idea and havesaid, all right, well, I need to
work with the fiduciary.
And I think we would all say,we agree, you know, that that
makes sense.
But underlying, you also, theold know, like, and trust, you
(16:08):
need to get to know who you'reworking with.
You need to trust them.
You need to have a relationshipwith them.
Because just because they have,you know, an acronym with some
letters, you know, all thesedifferent titles and
accreditations doesn't mean thatthey're always acting in your
best interest.
Ryan Fleming (16:28):
That's right.
So are there some prettyprominent myths versus reality
our listeners need tounderstand?
Ed Beemiller (16:32):
Well, we covered one already, which is, well, all
financial professionals arefiduciaries.
Well, Brian answered that.
They're not.
You know, And it is a goodquestion to ask.
If you're looking at differentadvisors or financial
professionals to work with,that's a legitimate question to
ask.
And another one is, okay, well,fiduciary just means you're
(16:56):
going to act ethically.
Well, no.
As I stated, a fiduciary reallyis a legal responsibility.
So it goes beyond ethics whenwe're talking about how to
handle a relationship.
And, you know, using that legalresponsibility does add another
extra layer.
(17:17):
And so that's where thedifference between the concept
of everything that's offered,you know, we go through and have
to make sure, first andforemost, that it is suitable.
And then the next layer that Ifeel really is that fiduciary
responsibility to say, allright, this is suitable, but
what's really in the bestinterest?
(17:37):
And that comes from, all right,I need to listen to my client.
What are they telling me theyneed?
All right.
Well, this could be suitable,but this other strategy here is
actually in their best interest.
It's the best thing for them.
Ryan Fleming (17:50):
Yeah.
I think about some people thatI know in the industry that I
have very high respect for thatare not on paper fiduciaries,
but I think they're some of themost amazing ethical advisors
that I've met in my entire life.
So, you know, there's that sideof the house too.
So just be because you havethis label of a fiduciary, you
(18:12):
have a CFP, doesn'tautomatically mean from a human
standpoint they're going to bedoing everything in your best
interest.
So you get that side of thehouse too.
Ed Beemiller (18:22):
And the one other thing that a lot of people, they
just associate that termfiduciary with financial
professionals.
The reality of it is there'swhole other classes out there
that also have that fiduciaryresponsibility.
Attorneys have that legalresponsibility to do what's in
your best interest.
Trustees.
(18:42):
Well, doctors is a little bitdifferent.
Hippocratic oath.
Yeah, so that's a little bitdifferent, but then corporate
directors, so there are otherareas where that fiduciary
responsibility does come intoplay.
Brian Minier (18:59):
Yeah, I think we would all agree that the
fiduciary title is good becauseit gives awareness, it gives
education, and it just tellspeople that I have taken being
ethical and understanding whatyour best needs are serious but
there's also a human element aswe all talked about even if I
have that but you don't trust meyou're not going to feel
(19:20):
comfortable working with me sowe have to not only understand
what it means but we have tomake sure that people see that
side of us that he's empatheticI can trust him and he's going
to do what's best for
Ryan Fleming (19:33):
me that's so true well with that huddlers we're
going to call this a wrapappreciate you all chiming in to
the huddle nation.
Join us next time.
We look forward to seeing youguys.
Take care.
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