The Grit-Iron Report | The Lions Are Dead | Coaching Carousel Begins | Cade Is The Truth

Join Kiel and Tyler this week as the Lions are officially dead. Detroit loses in the Divisional round to the Commanders, 31-45, and the coaching shuffle has begun. The guys then run through some Lions free agent talk, Cade Cunningham, and the Pistons recent surge.

At the backend of each episode, Kiel and Tyler play listener voicemails and discuss, wrapping up with he rest of Detroit sports, Pistons, Tigers and Redwings!

Join the conversation by leaving a listener voicemail for the guys to play and discuss live on the pod! (313)-306-7939

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Alright, welcome to the grip.

(00:29):
Iron Report, your Lions First, all Detroit sports podcast.
Today is Tuesday, January 21st and the lion season is over.
The coaching carousel has begun and the Pistons are back over 500.
So let's get into it.
We'll start with just the most important thing in sports news around Detroit.
I guess we have to start with that.

(00:51):
And that's that the Pistons are back over 500.
That's exactly right, man.
The Pistons coming off just a big win against the U.S.
It's in Houston and they are, you know, back above 500.
That's really what we're here to talk about, right?
That's what all of Detroit I think wants to talk about.
But no, we're going to start with the Lions.
Obviously, the disappointing divisional matchup against the commanders.

(01:12):
Lions lose 31 to 45 in what can only be assumed to be the worst loss of the season, the worst
performance of the season, I should say.
Yeah, the Detroit Lions on Saturday night, they got absolutely punked.
They got pantsed up, battered, embarrassed, outcoach, outplayed, and frankly, outworked

(01:32):
and outhustled.
And you know, I think Detroit players as well as their fans, they were talking a lot of
shit this season, not necessarily just about this commander's game, although, you know,
I did predict a big win.
I think everyone predicted a big win.
But I think more just in general, look at, you know, the St. Brown podcast and, you know,
just the way the Lions talked.

(01:55):
They were ranked among the NFL's best.
And, you know, that's what we thought they were going to achieve greatness this year.
And while that all came crashing down to earth on Saturday night, and really it's just, it's
a reality check.
And I think just lastly for me, before we jump into the game, I got to put my hand up.
I deleted all social media apps off my phone.
I'm not proud to admit it, but I had to do it.

(02:17):
Simply couldn't face all of the Lions hate memes, extremely warranted hate memes, by
the way.
But I couldn't face the music.
So yeah, I got to put my hand up, you know, the boys, you know, PFT being a Commies fan,
Big Cat, you know, stealing our coach, I just, I couldn't take it.
So I just, I had to get that out there, you know, sue me if you have to.
But that's, that's where my mental state is right now.

(02:38):
Yeah, I kind of did the opposite.
I leaned into it.
Obviously, if you follow me on Twitter, I'm an emotional tweeter.
When it comes to sports games, I'm firing off tweets and not thinking about things.
I'm just kind of firing them off.
And then I'm looking back after the game being like, that was a little emotional.
That one, that one was a little bit aggressive.
And so I kind of did the opposite.
I leaned into it, but kind of what I found interesting and we can get into the game in

(03:00):
a second, it was almost what was most annoying to me on line on Lions Twitter was almost
the, the Lions on Lions argument in Lions fans fighting with other Lions fans.
You would have the group that were firmly in the boat of, this is embarrassing.
We should, you know, this is how do we have such a good season and then come out and lay
a goose egg like this, what's going on?
Like the line should be all embarrassed.

(03:20):
And then you're to the other side of Lions Twitter that was saying like all these fake
Lions fans, like we had such a good season.
How can you be so mad at this and going back and forth?
And I think kind of, I fell a little bit in the middle.
I guess I fell more so on the side of like that's embarrassing because it really was.
Like you said, we got pants, we got punked on live TV.
We talked a lot of shit throughout the season and we're allowed to be mad and frustrated

(03:42):
and, and be embarrassed and say we're lying should be embarrassed based on that, that
performance.
And so I guess I leaned a little bit more in that camp, but I went the opposite.
You deleted social media.
I kind of went the opposite, leaned into it for, you know, just force fed tweets into
people's faces and stuff like that.
But we'll jump right into it.
Let's go into the offense first and foremost.
Goff picked a hell of a week to have such a bad game.

(04:04):
I mean, he just was out of sorts in Taiwan.
I mean, it really, you go back to the two games this past season in which he had such
bad games and that would be the Texans game in which he had what five interceptions and
like that in the, in the Buck and Neers game in which he just felt like he was out of rhythm.
I felt like this was a little bit of combination of both.
Like I said, the Bucks game is out of rhythm.
I feel like in this one, he never really got going.
He was making mistakes.

(04:24):
He was kind of battling with the play calling a little bit.
He was 23 for 40, 313 yards, which is okay.
That's a decent stat line, but one touchdown and three picks also had the, the fumble there
in the red zone that we can get to in a minute with the, the play calling and stuff.
But I just felt like golf really never got into any kind of groove and he, it was almost

(04:44):
like he was just kind of sleeping out there and making mistakes that he doesn't usually
make interceptions, fumble wise, everything.
Yeah.
I mean, sick.
Jared, you know, the, the biggest game of the season, you're at home, a trip to the NFC
championship game is on the line and, and you know, all roads to the Super Bowl are leading
through it and you lay an absolute egg like that.

(05:04):
I mean, come on, man, like five turnovers.
And one of the biggest ones was that absolutely deadly pick six late in the second quarter
that, you know, in my opinion, you know, buried them.
They, they fought hard at times and they're, you know, it wasn't all bad, but you know,
you're not going to win a game when you turn the ball over five times.

(05:25):
And you know, it's tough because I loved what Jared did all season.
He had a couple of bad games, but overall he had just a really, really tremendous season.
And I do fall into that Lions camp where you got to celebrate the 15 wins.
But at the end of the day, you know, this was, you know, it's the next game up.
This was the biggest game of the season and you lay an egg and it's super frustrating

(05:45):
for me.
Yeah.
And it's not just on Jared.
I thought Ben Johnson and we can get in, we'll get into the coaching carousel, like
I said, and after we go through this game and stuff, I thought Ben Johnson had kind
of an up and down game.
The immediate thought is like he had a really poor, offensively called game.
You kind of dig into the, dig into the numbers a little bit and it's not necessarily as bad
as I think a lot of people think.

(06:06):
You still put up 31 points with the, you know, the, all the turnovers they had with the five
turnovers, I think it was like the second most first downs they had all season.
So like they did still move the ball, but a lot of the play calling was really questionable
at times.
Like I just said, you had the, it was third and short in the red zone from like the 15
yard line and you've dropped back to pass when Jared golf ended up fumbling the ball.
It's like, you have the best running back duo in the league.

(06:28):
Why are we dropping back to pass on third and short in the red zone?
So like that, it makes sense.
You had the Jameson Williams reverse pass that was just boneheaded of all guys that
can make that pass.
We've seen Amon Ra make a pass in NFL.
I think I'm pretty sure it was for a touchdown earlier in the season.
And Amon Ra is smart enough and has the, the wherewithal to know if that pass isn't there.
I'm confident that, that Amon Ra knows just to throw the ball away.

(06:51):
Sometimes that's the best play available.
It's just a throw it away, not force anything.
Jameson Williams is just, he's just so still so new to the NFL.
I think he was just forcing that down the field.
That was such a poorly timed play call and poorly manned, you know, like I said, with
Jameson being that guy to do it.
So I thought those were just, his play calls went up and down.
I did like when Jared went down with, you know, I think he got run back to the locker

(07:14):
room for a quick concussion test when he got popped for the missed call.
Should have been, you know, a penalty on the commanders, neither here nor there.
When he did come off and Teddy two gloves, Teddy Bridgewater had to come in the game.
I did actually like that call in which like that we were kind of floundering and drowning
at the moment.
We had our back up quarterback in call that, that energetic, you know, the reverse play

(07:36):
I, I liked that call.
So like it was kind of up and down for Ben Johnson, but the up and down of the play
calling combined with Jarragoff being not Jarragoff that we've seen all season, which
is a recipe for disaster.
And then you add in a little bit of struggles from the offensive line that led up to, to

(07:56):
sacks on Jared during the game.
So it was kind of a little bit of everything in my opinion, at least on the offensive side.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And you know, I misspoke.
I did say that Jared had five turnovers.
It was four, of course, that the Jamo turnover.
And yeah, you have to know that James Williams is going to throw that ball probably a hundred
times out of a hundred times.

(08:18):
Just that's, that's the player he is, you know, he goes all in and where you're right,
you know, and Amon Ra may have thrown that ball away.
Jamo is going to go all in and that's, you have to know that if you're bouncing and you're
dialing up that play that no matter what he's throwing that ball.
So yeah, I mean, just a couple of questionable plays and in, you know, divisional playoff
game that is the difference, you know, there's inches.

(08:40):
And I thought overall the lines, they actually move the ball extremely well.
They averaged nearly eight yards per play, very balanced rushing attack and passing attack,
you know, two and one yards on the ground.
And you know, Gibbs, Gibbs was awesome.
105 yards on just 14 carries, you had a touchdown on the ground, 70 more yards through the air,
would have loved to just go to him more often.

(09:03):
And to your point, they were kind of getting cute on a lot of these calls, a lot of third
and shorts where, you know, they're dropping back to pass and turnovers happen.
So I think, I think you have to adjust and know that, you know, maybe when your quarterback
doesn't quite have it that, you know, you can lean on that run game.
The run game is one of the best in the NFL and it just seems like they kind of went away
from it.

(09:23):
Some of that's probably game scripted.
They're down the majority of the second half.
They're going to be throwing the ball more.
It's just natural, but yeah, I just, you got to get more out of your guys.
And yeah, it wasn't all bad.
Amon Ra had a great game, albeit a lot of that probably came in the second half when
the Lions were trailing.
And they just, they needed more because the commanders really came to play and the Lions

(09:46):
absolutely didn't.
Yeah, I thought we were missing a little bit from Montgomery.
I wasn't sure exactly how much we were going to get from him.
We talked in last week's episode whether he maybe would be on a snap count.
We saw from Anzaloni when he came back that there were really, I don't even know if they'd
heard of the word snap count when Anzaloni was coming back.
So we weren't sure how much we were going to get of David Montgomery.
He only had 14 or excuse me, he only had, I think it was 28 yards and seven carries.

(10:13):
So not really productive, not really just giving the opportunities.
And that could be, like you said, a little bit of, you know, game situational issues
could have been maybe a little bit of his injury.
It could have been just Gibbs was playing really well.
So you didn't really get that one too.
You really only had that one, which is still fine.
But outside of them, I mean, you had, there was some good things to celebrate on the offensive

(10:34):
side.
The highest PFF ratings, the top five highest PFF ratings.
Number two out of the top five was Christian Mahogany with 92.2.
He's obviously the rookie lineman.
We'll get to him in a little bit, but I think he's shown an immense talent this season.
Kind of just being plugged in when we need him to, but he had a really tremendous game.

(10:56):
The third overall highest PFF rating on the offensive side was from Panay.
He was at 90.1.
The fourth was Ahmed Rahul, St. Brown, 80.3.
And then fifth was Jumeir Gibbs at 78.9.
So a lot of the top five, or the top five PFF offensive players came from, you know,
our guys.
So there is a lot to celebrate there.
Fortunately, the lowest PFF ratings, number four was Jared Goff at 45.5, which is just

(11:21):
horrendous.
And then number five was Graham Glasgow at 53.
And again, we'll get into some retention guys later on the episode.
Graham Glasgow will definitely come up.
But so I mean, there was some things to celebrate.
You look at the moving over to the defensive side, you look at the box score, the first
quarter, Washington put up three points.

(11:42):
The second quarter is really where it killed Detroit.
Washington was able to put up 28 points.
And that was just kind of where the dam broke free.
The third quarter, we held Washington to zero.
And then the fourth quarter had 14, when it was a little bit of a garbage time, I think,
you know, right towards the end, it was obviously out of touch.
But you take away that second quarter, and it's a very different game.
That being said, it still was the third most yards given up all season at 481.

(12:07):
Jane Daniels was split on 16 of his 31 passing attempts per next-gen stats.
He completed 12 of those 16 attempts for 191 of his 299 yards in a touchdown.
So basically, he did exactly what we knew he would do.
Jane Daniels is fantastic against the Blitz.
We knew Detroit likes to Blitz to kind of create some pressure.
And he really threw it back in our face.

(12:29):
When he actually was facing pressure, he went seven for nine with 109 yards, sacked zero
times and added 51 yards on the ground.
So I mean, Jane Daniels was just fantastic.
You got to tip your cap to him.
He was awesome.
It's exactly right.
And you love seeing rookies in this league really excel.
You hate when it's against your team, and especially in the playoffs.
But yeah, Jane Daniels was very, very, very good in this game.

(12:50):
And the Lions couldn't stop him whatsoever.
Zero sacks on him.
I don't have the numbers for pressures or hurries right in front of me, but relatively
few in both of those departments.
And he also ran for 51 yards.
And often, he was running on very crucial third or fourth downs.
I think one play that really sticks in my mind and it's probably in my nightmares.

(13:11):
But it was Terry and Arnold getting just absolutely cooked.
Very crucial play when the Lions desperately needed to stop.
Terry was responsible for outside contain, basically.
It was a run play all along.
Basically a read option.
And Jaden kept the ball.
Terry got sucked in.
Which I don't even really get it.

(13:32):
It's what, at best, you're the quarterback, you're going to be like the fifth guy to the
ball carrier when you have that outside contain.
So just stay outside.
I feel like that's in a way, that's coaching.
I don't know how they didn't expect at least a 40% chance that Jaden Daniels was keeping
that ball.
And in my opinion, I'm like, of course he's keeping the ball.

(13:53):
He's Jaden Daniels.
So yeah, I think that a lot of times I was watching that game just like, you just have
to be so much smarter.
This is a game of inches.
And you mentioned the second quarter.
I think absolutely where this game was decided.
Lions have a 14-10 lead.
They give up a long 58-yard touchdown to Terry McClaren.

(14:14):
That was tough.
But I mean, it happens.
And then you immediately, in the ensuing drive, throw a pick six.
And just like that, your 14-10 lead is in a 24-14 deficit in a matter of literally two
game minutes.
Like that's, I mean, the Lions, they would trail by less than three the remainder of

(14:35):
the game.
You know, they fought on two different times.
They got the lead to the deficit to three points, I should say.
But yeah, they were never able to take the lead after that.
So that's where the game was lost for me.
Yeah.
I know what the exact player you're talking about with Terry and Arnold and Jaden Daniels.
And it's so frustrating because you're right.
That is like what I remember from way, way, way back in the day when I was to play.

(14:56):
The one thing they tell you is, stay home.
You have, especially if you're on the outside, if you're on the edges, your job is to send
everything towards the inside.
If you're on the way edges, the cornerbacks and everything, your job is to not get sucked
in.
And that's exactly what Terry and Arnold, and it happens.
The players get excited.
They see, you know, the scrim, they see everyone going together.
They want to be in on it.
Like you just get overly excited, especially a young player like him.
But literally his only job is to not move his feet and don't get sucked in.

(15:19):
And that's exactly what it is.
As soon as they went downfield, he took like three steps in.
And by, as soon as he took a step in, he was beat, especially by a guy who was, you know,
as impressive as a runner as Jayden Daniels.
It was, I remember the exact play you were talking about, and it was so frustrating.
But I mean, outside of that, you had Brian Branch, who actually had the highest PFF rating
from the defenses, 92.9.
He was the highest on both teams.

(15:41):
So Brian Branch having a great day.
The lowest, he was actually the only top five for Detroit.
The lowest PFF ratings from the defense were number one, Maurice Norris Jr., at 38.3.
Ify was unfortunately at number two with 34.5.
And then also unfortunately, number three is Zidarius Smith at 39.8.

(16:01):
So you know, Maurice Norris, we knew going into this game how beat up we were.
We had guys coming in that were on the street yesterday and we didn't know their names.
So we expected, you know, stuff like that to happen.
I don't blame the guy for, you know, coming up on the lowest PFF ratings or for struggling.
It's just the nature of the injuries and stuff.
Now ify and especially Zidarius, they have no business being on the lowest PFF ratings,

(16:25):
which if you don't follow PFF, it's a whole bunch of different stats that I don't have
the information to, but it's basically how well you played overall.
They have no business being on there.
Zidarius Smith, we obviously acquired him at the trade deadline.
He was supposed to be the difference maker.
He was supposed to be the guy that's going to kind of branch or bridge the gap between
the time that we have, that we're missing Hutch.

(16:46):
And next year, he actually is on the counter for next year as well.
If we decide to keep him around, he's supposed to be along with Hutch.
To come up with that, the performance he had is just actually terrible.
Would it surprise you if I told you that Sam LaPorta had more, Sam LaPorta and Jameer
Gibbs had more tackles in this game than Zidarius Smith?
Geez.
That's the thing I think I've ever heard.

(17:09):
Yes, definitely surprises me.
He's your deadline guy that you go out and get to push you over the top and he lays an
egg like he did.
And this is something that we've been tracking for a few weeks.
We've talked about he's been a little bit quiet and I've seen on a few different NFC
Twitter accounts because he's actually been all over the NFC North.
I've seen a few different team Twitter accounts talking like, hey, that's what you'll see

(17:29):
with him.
He's going to disappear.
Just wait for it as season goes on.
It's going to disappear.
And he absolutely did.
So he's really disappointing.
Well, obviously they'll make a decision whether you're going to keep him for another year
or not.
But I mean, yeah, Lions missed tackles per game this season was right around 6.6 in Saturday

(17:50):
night game.
Saturday night game, they had 16.
I mean, it was just terrible, terrible all around on the defensive side.
They got absolutely worked and they knew this was a high powered offense coming in and they
didn't do anything to stop it.
Really difficult.
And I will say that a lot of times the defense was put in pretty tough situations.
Of course, like when the offense turns the ball over five times, one of those was right

(18:14):
at the end of the game.
But they were in some tough situations, but they also were not doing any favors for the
Lions.
Obviously given up 481 yards and defense gives up 45 points, six of those points were, seven
of those points were from the pick six.
So it's not all on the defense, but yeah, a lot of it is for sure.
Lions defense actually looked pretty good on third down, holding the commanders to four

(18:38):
of 12.
However, you know, a lot of those third downs, as we know, Dan Quinn likes to roll the dice,
they turn to fourth downs and commanders were three or four on four downs and a lot of those
being extremely crucial plays when the Lions really needed to stop.
So yeah, overall just so much bad on both sides of the ball.
I don't know if we want to talk about special teams, but shout out to the commanders special

(19:02):
teams for finally figuring out a way to kick the ball basically right at the goal line and
have exceptional coverage.
I felt like every time we were receiving the ball, starting at like the 15 yard line.
So yeah, and great, great special, the commanders horrible from the Lions.
So just just top to bottom.
It was just a nightmare game.
Yeah.
The only thing I will say in which we beat them was that Jake Bates was one for one,

(19:26):
Zane Gonzalez was one for two.
Take them where we can get them, I guess.
It's the only win and otherwise just an absolute nightmare.
Yeah.
So I will say, let's go into this.
I put together a list of silver linings for Detroit because we just went through, you
know, what 15 minutes of how this was terrible.
I know we had people over for the game.

(19:46):
I'm sure you were at a bar or something watching the game.
Just a real terrible, sad, sad night, sad day in Detroit in general, just with all the
losing, the pissing loss, everything's lost.
So I put together some silver linings for Detroit that I think maybe can help us get
through this a little bit.
First and foremost, I think now it's safe to say the Jared Goff chance can stop.

(20:07):
If you have listened to us for quite some time now, I've been kind of on the forefront
of that.
I've been tired of the Jared Goff chance outside of Lions games.
If you're at a Lions game, chant his name until you're blue in the face.
I don't care.
But when you're at Red Wings games and Pistons games and Michigan State Spartan games, like
I was so tired of that Jared Goff chant.
I get what it was, and we talked about it a few weeks ago.

(20:28):
I get what it means for Detroit.
It was this guy who was cast off and came here and resurrected and he represents Detroit.
I get that.
It was cool.
It was awesome.
I don't know if the whole city could get behind, but it definitely got stale.
I think a lot of fans are pushing it in ways that when players are down injured, I don't
want to hear Jared Goff chance coming from the stand.

(20:49):
I think silver lining number one, we can probably stop the Jared Goff chance just based on this
performance and the season being over.
Yeah, I agreed.
I was in the opposite camp of you and you know this.
I liked the chance because for all the reasons why you just said, I like having just a quarterback
you get behind and we're playing so well, but I do agree.

(21:09):
They can stop now.
When you turn the ball over four times in the playoffs, when you throw a pick six, crucial
fumbles, yeah, we got to stop chanting your name.
Maybe next season we get it going again, but for now, for this offseason, it's very least.
I think it can stop.
So silver lining number two, I'm just going to go ahead and say it.

(21:30):
A Super Bowl parade would have been a logistical nightmare.
I was planning on taking the day off of work.
We were going to go downtown, have some drinks.
I don't know where we're going to go.
Looking back on it, it's probably a blessing because I don't know where we would have gone.
All the bars would have charged crazy covers.
I don't know where we would have gone.
It would have been a logistical nightmare.
Let's just be thankful we don't have to deal with all that traffic going up and down Woodward.

(21:52):
I think that can be something we can be happy about.
Oh, geez.
Yeah, I mean, who would want that?
Who would want a Super Bowl parade?
Yeah, I think personally, I did schedule a ski trip to Colorado for the Super Bowl weekend.
So I would have canceled that or I wouldn't have gone.
I would have either been in Detroit for the Super Bowl or potentially New Orleans.
So for me, yeah, don't have to worry about that anymore.

(22:14):
So I guess that is silver lining.
I get to go snowboarding.
I'll be sad snowboarding because football has broken me.
But yeah, there we go.
Silver lining.
And then the last one, last one I put together.
And again, this is just because we were so sad.
I had to put together some things that are good coming from this.
Now that football's over, that just means we're that much closer to March Madness, the best
time of the year outside of football playoffs.

(22:35):
Yeah, I love that.
And you know, shout out to the Michigan State Spartans.
They're playing really good ball right now too.
Undefeated in the band and definitely a favorite to win that conference.
So yeah, we're getting pretty close to March.
I know for one of the weekends, we'll be in Nashville for a bachelor party for one of
our friends.
So yeah, that can come soon enough.
And yeah, is football season over?

(22:57):
Yeah, it's as far as I'm concerned, it is over.
We'll obviously watch the playoff games and be very sad about it.
But football season essentially is over.
That means we're that much closer to basketball season or March Madness, I should say.
So those are my silver linings.
There's some good to come out of this.
It's not all doom and gloom.
We were very sad Saturday night.
I was very sad Sunday, very sad watching the rest of the playoffs Sunday evening.

(23:21):
But football is dumb and sports are stupid and we're going to move on from this.
Yeah, I'm so sad.
I'm so sad.
I'm probably never get over this.
I actually had this is a knee jerk reaction when I was watching the game with my friends
on Saturday night when the game was essentially over.
I said that this loss hurts more than last year's NFC championship game.
And I think I'm sticking by it.
I don't think that was just a knee jerk reaction.

(23:42):
I think when you look at both games and you know, being underdogs for that game, being
heavy favorites for this one, Super Bowl favorite, just think this hurts so much more to just
collapse in this way.
I agree wholeheartedly, exactly for what you said.
We were dogs in that game.
We at least had a half of that game last year against the 49ers that we were like, we were
like, we were having fun and we were able to say like, man, we might actually do this.

(24:05):
Like this is this is the great we might do this.
And then it, you know, slowly fell apart and we were left, you know, pan stick on live
TV once again.
But I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Last year hurt way less than this year.
But we will rebuild anything in closing with this game before we jump into some we have
a listener voicemail to go into next.
I think I've said my piece.

(24:26):
I can't, I don't think I could talk about it anymore.
Okay.
So we have listener voicemail set up for this.
If you're new to the show, this is a phone number that is set up for just specifically
for the show.
We will read it off towards the end of the episode.
It'll also be in the show notes.
So make sure to join the conversation by calling in, leaving a voicemail.
It could be about the Lions, the Pistons, Tigers, Detroit sports, Detroit, anything.

(24:47):
It'll be about anything you just want us to talk about on the show.
We'll give it a listen and then show it, play it on the pod.
So let's go ahead and do so first.
Hey, what's up boys?
It's Dre, longtime listener, first time caller.
Obviously, elephant in the room.
What a, what a shitty fucking game that was this past weekend.

(25:09):
It's a mixed bag of emotions.
Obviously, we had such a great season.
It's really tough to go from that to whatever the fuck that was on Saturday.
You know, you have players like golf, JMO, who've been so electric, people like Ben Johnson,
Aaron Glenn that have done so much for the city.

(25:31):
But to go out like that in a blaze of fucking shit is just heartbreaking.
And it sucks that we have to wait six, seven, eight months to see what this team will be
next year.
It'll be different, but we'll be rooting for them.
Thanks boys, keep rocking.
Awesome, Dre, I mean, first off, it was tough, man.

(25:51):
It was tough for all of us, but appreciate you calling in, man.
Long time listener, first time caller.
And I know that's absolutely true.
You've been with us.
So yeah, I completely agree, man, making it to the motions.
On one hand, it was an awesome season, 15 wins.
It's a franchise record.
I think the previous record was 12, right?
So far and away, the best season that the Lions have had from a regular season perspective.

(26:16):
And it was a ton of fun, man.
I mean, awesome games, blowout games, trick plays.
It was awesome.
I think this was, without a doubt, the most fun I have had watching a Detroit Lions season.
But you're exactly right, Dre.
Just to go out like that, a really horrific game.
Leaders, Ben Johnson, we'll talk about him, Aaron Glenn, you're probably losing both those

(26:40):
coordinators too.
It's really a gut punch.
Of course, coordinators leave for greener pastures all the time.
But it's really difficult.
And I'm obviously super excited to see what they can do going forward.
I think this is not the end for this team.
I know a lot of people after the NFC championship game last year said that the Lions, they'll

(27:03):
never be back.
I do think they will be back.
I think they still have a ton of talent, a ton of young guys.
They got some sluds like Amon Ross St. Brown and Penet Soule who are signed long term.
And you got a guy like Jared Goff who has proven that he can be the man.
Albeit it's tough when you have bad games like that in the spotlight when it matters

(27:24):
most.
So, yeah, appreciate the voicemail, man.
It's certainly a gut punch, man.
I'll say, so I alluded to it at the beginning of the episode.
And one of the things I found most interesting was the Lions fans fighting with other Lions
fans on Twitter.
And again, the two camps kind of were the one group that was embarrassed by the Lions

(27:46):
loss and frustrated with the team and the coaching staff and the front office and stuff.
And then the other camp saying, basically defending them saying like they gave us the
best season in Lions football history.
How can you, you know, you guys have just been emotional and how can you be so mad at
them and stuff.
And I, like I said, I'm kind of in the middle, but I fall more towards the first camp and
that you're right, Dre.

(28:07):
And Kyle, you're right.
This was a fantastic season.
We had so much fun during the season.
We kicked the shit out of people.
I mean, the point differential, I think it was at something like, I probably went down
after the playoff game, but it was something like 222 or something.
It was up there for most in NFL history.
It was so much fun throughout the entire season.
But then to get embarrassed like that on live TV, you can still, you're allowed to be frustrated

(28:29):
and say like, this was embarrassing, like what are we doing here?
You don't have to kind of fall 100% in one camp or the other.
So I agree with what you're saying.
Like Ben Johnson's, Aaron Glens, they've done so much for the city, but we, I think
we still can be kind of frustrated with them.
And based on, like you said, going out the way that they did.
Now do you think, like you said, you kind of alluded to it, the Lions were Super Bowl

(28:53):
favorites.
That's why this one hurts so much.
Where would you put them going into next year?
About five Super Bowl favorite odds just because of the success we had knowing that, you know,
when we'll get to coaches in a second that we're losing likely both of our coordinators?
It's a really good question.
So yes, there are some question marks, right?
Like, can the offense keep up what they did last year knowing that you're going to have

(29:18):
a completely new signal caller.
We don't even know who that signal caller is.
So you know, maybe in a month or two or less when the Lions announced that.
And maybe we'll know a little bit more.
But yeah, I think there's still a ton of questions, but I do think they have to be maybe fifth
best odds next year.
And they could be a little higher.

(29:38):
They could be a little lower.
But just given that their core is relatively unchanged.
We'll talk about some guys that might be leaving.
But when you look at the core of Hutchinson, Sewell, you got Goff, Gibbs, that core is there
and it's not changing.
So the majority of the team is going to be the same, even guys on defense like Brian
Branch, Kirby Joseph, all those guys are there.

(30:00):
So I think there's no reason to think that this team won't be a super bulk and tender
next year at the very least like, you know, top five odds that in my opinion.
Yeah, I'm kind of the same boat.
We're not going to be top three.
I don't think because we're it just natural regression and losing your coordinators.
And because of the question marks, like you said, but you know, like Dray said, it's going

(30:20):
to be different, but we're still going to root for it.
And I think that's a great transition into our next section, which we're kind of just
calling the what now section.
So we had the coaching carousel that's ongoing right now.
I'll be, people are talking about it on Twitter and some people are calling it lame conversation
or, you know, lame argument and stuff, but it's absolutely terrible that that assistant

(30:40):
coaches can go out and make their interviews during the season.
I know it's been a thing for forever and people, I see people online, they're like, oh, if
you're complaining about this, like you, you don't watch football, you don't know they've
been doing this forever.
Yeah, that's fine.
They maybe have done it forever.
But I think it's, it's bullshit that our assistants instead of preparing for the most
important games of their career, at least this year, you know, are have at least some

(31:03):
sort of other things going on and say what they want.
I'm sure you asked them a million times, they're going to say like they were all into this
game and you know, they were not distracted in the slightest, but like it's just natural
human nature to be a little bit distracted if you had stuff like that going on.
So with that being said, we did get some news yesterday.
Ben Johnson will be accepting the head coaching position for the Chicago Bears.

(31:28):
It is rumored that he is targeting Dennis Allen to join him as his defensive coordinator,
which you know, makes sense that he's obviously means he's probably not going to be poaching
many defensive coaches or staff play staff positions from Detroit, which makes sense.
He was an offensive guy, but kind of in that same that same camp that I was just talking
about earlier, how we can like celebrate what they did and be frustrated with the performance

(31:52):
they played.
I'm kind of following that same camp with this.
Like, I'm so happy for Ben Johnson and the fun he gave us the amount of times we all
like collectively, when whoever's watching the game with stood up and you know, hands
on her head like, what did we just watch?
That was an insane play.
And be thankful that he brought us that type of explosion.
I'm also extremely pissed off that he not only was taking his interviews during, you

(32:14):
know, the playoff run, which again, say what you want about it, whatever, but also he's
going into division.
Like, I think both can be true.
I can be happy for him, but also, you know, supremely pissed off.
Yeah.
And I get how you're feeling that way.
I think your first point about, you know, having these coaches interviewing during,

(32:36):
you know, the most pivotal time in the season, the playoffs, I just think that that's the
way that the NFL is set up now and it wouldn't be fair to think that Ben Johnson shouldn't
be doing that when other coaches are the same thing, right?
These interviews are going to happen whether you take them or not.

(32:56):
So it would really just be doing Ben Johnson or Glenn really any, any, it would be doing
them a disservice to not take these interviews knowing that that's, this is what's best for
them.
And until the NFL like changes those rules, and I think they never will because, you know,
just look at it from the perspective of the teams that are trying to fill that, that,

(33:16):
that vacancy, you know, they, they want to get these guys in as soon as possible.
You know, if you have a guy like Ben Johnson and you get him in on, you know, January 20th
and he accepts the job or at the very least, you know, right, right in the first day that
legally he can after the season's over, that's just more time that he has to work with the
players to, you know, scheme up things.

(33:37):
So I totally get it.
It doesn't make it any easier though because you obviously want your guy locked in during
the playoffs, right?
And to your second point about him going into division, yeah, I mean, it, it sucks because
we know what Ben Johnson can do.
We know that he's a spectacular play caller.
He's a great leader.
And I think he's going to have some real success in Chicago.

(33:59):
And so as, as a Detroit Lions fan who, you know, hates the Bears, maybe more than any
other franchise, you know, not named the Packers.
It's tough because I do think he's going to have some success, but, you know, you look
at it from Ben Johnson's perspective, he's got to take the best available job for him,
for him and for his family and where he thinks that he is going to be the most successful.

(34:20):
That's the reason why he stayed in Detroit an extra year.
Yes, it was because he had some unfit unfinished business in Detroit, but he also wanted to
take the job that was best for him.
And last year in the off season, he didn't think that, you know, there was a job that
really fits him.
And for him to leave now, he obviously thinks that the Bears, young talent, young quarterback,

(34:41):
a good core is, is the right fit for him.
And I, I don't think that, you know, it'd be fair for any of us to say anything other,
other than that.
I know you're, you're, you're coming at this very logically and that's annoying to me
because you're right.
It was, it truly, it sounds like it came down to a few different teams, but like when you're
comparing the Raiders to the Bears, like you would be, you'd be a terrible decision maker

(35:05):
if you decided to go to Las Vegas over, over the Bears, like the Bears offense is, is young.
Like you're completely right.
It's a much better situation for him.
I think it's going to thrive there.
You mentioned the Packers like as long as I agree with you, as long as it's not the Packers,
like I almost, I don't know if I hate the Bears or the Vikings more, but I definitely
hate the Packers more.
So I'm just glad it's not them.

(35:26):
The one thing I will say, just pushing back a little bit, you know, you mentioned that
this is how the NFL does.
And it's only fair that they should go out, be able to go out and cause other coaches
are talking and accept these interviews and stuff.
I think that is true for most coaches.
And I probably think that's, you know, that's why I kind of feel that way with Aaron Glenn.
But in my opinion, Ben Johnson was like the white whale this off season.

(35:48):
Like he, he, he's the crown jewel, the prize possession that I think all teams really wanted.
He's the shiny new, the new toy that you want running your offense.
So I think in any other situation, it is fair to say, to let these coaches go out.
And if everyone else is interviewing, like you don't want to be left behind, you got
to go on an interview too.
But with Ben Johnson, like I think everyone wanted him enough that he could have waited

(36:12):
it and said like, Hey, I'm all in on this Lions team.
We're trying to win this Super Bowl.
I, I want this job.
I will interview with you.
But it'll have to happen after the Super Bowl.
And I think teams truly would have waited and not hired just to see if they can kind of
be in on the Ben Johnson sweepstakes.
And you know, whether that's true or not, I don't know.
Like I said, you were coming at this at a much more logical, you know, angle.

(36:36):
I was coming at it more of the irrelevant, irrational sports fan.
Who's to say who's right?
But yeah, so Ben Johnson taking the Chicago Bears team or head coaching position, as far
as what we're left with on the offensive side, it's really kind of everything I'm reading
and hearing it's coming down to likely two different candidates.

(36:57):
So you have Tanner Engstrand, who we brought up last week, Tanner, 42 years old.
He's the passing game coordinator right now under Ben Johnson was started off as an offensive
quality coach, then turned to the tight ends coach.
And then like I said, now he's the passing game coordinator.
We know how electric this passing game is, how Jerig Office derived, how Jameson Williams

(37:18):
and not gonna, all these guys are just playing so well.
So he's obviously an up and comer.
Everyone around the NFL knows this guy knows Tanner Engstrand.
He would be my, you know, my, my choice, I guess he would probably be who I'm putting
money on.
But that's not to say the other guy, the other option who is Scotty, Scotty Montgomery
isn't, you know, qualified either.

(37:39):
He's being considered.
He's in his second season as a running backs coach.
He's also 46 years, 46 as opposed to 42.
So still both young guys.
He is a renderbacks coach, like I said, but he's also the assistant head coach.
So we may be a little bit closer tied to, to Dan Campbell as opposed to Tanner being
more closely tied to Ben Johnson.

(38:00):
But it's really kind of coming down to those two guys from everything I'm reading.
The only other option would maybe be offensive line coach Hank Fraley.
Again, we mentioned him last week.
Hank is revered at least within this team and around the league is one of the best offensive
line coaches in the NFL.
You see how successful the Detroit Lions offensive line is.
They absolutely love him.
You had quotes from Ragnar.

(38:22):
I think it was yesterday or the other day when they were cleaning out their lockers.
Someone was asked about Hank Fraley and Frank Ragnar was literally like, I'm going to sabotage
all his interviews.
Like I'm not letting him leave this building.
He needs to be here.
Like I haven't played, I haven't not played for him and I refuse to let that happen anytime
soon.
The only thing with, with Hank is that he's also onto his second interview.

(38:42):
This one being an in person interview for Seattle's offensive coordinator position.
So it's obvious that he also wants an O.C. position.
So if he doesn't get the one in Detroit, I think he's pretty much out the door.
But it's really kind of coming down to those three guys on the offensive side.
It seems like it'll be internal.
Yeah.
And I love that.
And I want them to keep it internal and I am basing this off of nothing other than there

(39:07):
are a lot of bad offensive coordinators in this league and O.C.'s, they seemingly get
fired all the time.
And so rather than, you know, trying to go hit a home run with someone externally, you
know, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Keep it, keep it in house, whether it's, you know, Tanner or another one of the guys that
you mentioned, run this, run the same place.

(39:27):
You know, you can, you can add new wrinkles.
You got to, you got to mix things up, you know, because there's a lot of tape on this
Lions offense over the last couple of years under Ben Johnson.
But I'm totally with you, you know, keep it in house and really just keep doing what
you're doing because it's, it's working.
Yeah.
And that's a great point because Dan Campbell was asked about this and he, he was asked
about like, you know, what, what he wants to kind of carry over.

(39:49):
He mentioned that exactly that.
He's like, if it ain't broke, don't, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
He wants to continue kind of doing the same things.
If we do lose both coordinators, he, you know, including the D.C., he said he continued, wants
to continue playing majority of the man coverage.
He wants to continue to, you know, have the same verbiage on the offense.
Kind of, he wants somebody who, who make, who golf feels comfortable with and kind of can

(40:10):
work with him and they can kind of bounce off each other and have that relationship that
Ben Johnson had with Jared golf.
So it isn't, I agree completely with you and it sounds like Dan Campbell does as well that
it, the, while a lot might be changing, Dan Campbell really wants to kind of continue down
the path they were already going and just, you know, like you said, add a few more wrinkles
to it and everyone, you know, the new guys put their spin on it a little bit here and

(40:31):
there, but primarily have it be, you know, the more, more of the same.
And so with that, you know, move over to the other side, obviously the other, the other
coordinator to be interviewing the defense coordinator, Aaron Glenn is, I think just
as much as Ben Johnson was out the door, I think Aaron Glenn is as well.
Really the two teams that are gunning for him would be the New York Jets and the, the

(40:56):
Saints, the Jets, obviously the team who drafted him, he played for the Jets organization for
eight years.
So he has obviously a huge connection there.
He then was playing a year for the New Orleans Saints and then was the DB coach there for
I think five years who's the DB coach there.
So a connection there as well.
So for him, it makes a lot of sense for both of these situations.

(41:17):
If I'm him, I don't honestly know which one I'd want to go to because I don't really feel
like either one of them is maybe, maybe want to go to the Saints because the defense, I
guess no, I don't know what one I want to go to is a defensive guy.
Both defenses are pretty decent.
The Jets were a little more banged up this year, but it sounds like he's going to be
going to one of those two.

(41:38):
And then for his replacement, everything I'm hearing about the in-house hiring and promoting
for offense, I'm kind of hearing the opposite for defense and that it very well could be
an outside hire.
If they were to stay in-house, we talked about it last week, it likely would be someone like
Kelvin Shepard who has been in training for the DC position.
Aaron Glenn has basically kind of named him his successor midway through the year and

(42:01):
been teaching him how that works.
But there's a lot of talk about outside hires like specifically Robert Sala.
Yeah, and you know what?
I wouldn't hate a Robert Sala hire at all.
In fact, I think I'd like it.
I think I'm kind of on board with this.
It's a dearborn guy.
He's has Detroit roots and he's proven he can run a top tier defense.

(42:21):
I'm just thinking about his time when he was with the Niners.
Of course, head coach got fired from the Jets.
I do think that their defense for the Jets had potential last year and just kind of fell
short.
So yeah, I don't know if it's a perfect hire and I'd probably have to look into more than
just knowing the name, but I wouldn't hate the hire.

(42:41):
Yeah, I agree with you.
And there's other names being thrown around.
Dennis Allen was one that was kind of being thrown around before he was linked to Ben
Johnson, which I will just say kind of we already talked about taking interviews and
stuff while the season is still going on.
The day that he's hired, Ben Johnson is hired by the Bears.
He kind of already has his staff picked out, which means he already was out kind of talking

(43:04):
with the other coordinators and stuff, which is again kind of bullshit, but I digress.
The only thing with Sala is I feel like he in these very well could have been just Jets
fans and the Jets organization being, say what you want about them, but not being a
super great organization.
I feel like I've read and heard a decent amount of stories about Robert Sala having some attitude

(43:29):
issues, maybe being a little bit more like the Matt Patricia, like it's my way or the
highway.
I don't really care kind of thing, which again, it could be just kind of him being slandered
a little bit as he was on the way out.
He was obviously not a great situation with the Jets, but I'm with you.
I think I'm all in on the Robert Sala defensive coordinator for Detroit.

(43:49):
Yeah, for sure.
I think that a lot of that could be Jets fans.
I think the Jets have a ton of problems of their own.
They'd be the first to tell you that.
They're a mismanaged organization and that's coming from Alliance fans.
I know mismanagement when I see one, but yeah, I think that you at least give him a really
good look and it does have to be the right fit.

(44:14):
Dan Campbell has built up what we know about this team, the grittiness, and it's got to
be team first.
We can't have any prima donnas in here.
I know that Brad Holmes and Dan Campbell are going to make the right choice, no matter
who that is.
Yeah, it's super important they make the right call.

(44:35):
Not everyone's going to get along with Dan Campbell just because of his personality,
but also because of the culture he set.
It is that much more important that they do get the right guy in there.
There's other coaches that are also rumored to be leaving.
There's an assistant, a special team's assistant who is rumored to be taking a special team
coordinator position.
Our defensive line coach is rumored to be interviewing and looking elsewhere.

(44:59):
There's a number of different guys that are looking as good teams do.
They'll have their coordinators and assistants be poached and stuff.
It's up to Dan Campbell to retain who he absolutely feels necessary, promote if that
need be, and then replace if we can't get them to stick around.
Over the next few weeks, hopefully we'll have more information on who is staying, who is

(45:22):
leaving, who's being promoted, who is being brought in.
As soon as we hear things, we'll bring it to you guys and have a discussion and take
or two about it.
Let's get into the last bit of Lions news.
The last one, I just wanted to briefly touch on it.
We'll do probably a full episode in the upcoming weeks, at least relating to the Lions aspect

(45:44):
and part of the episode.
Talking about roster breakdown, talking about the guys who will be free agents this year,
who we think we should be resigning, who we think we should be going out and signing,
other free agents from other teams, anyone we think we should go out and trade for,
stuff like that.
Just to prime the pump a little bit there, Lions will have about $57 million to spend

(46:06):
it.
You mentioned it a little bit ago about how well this team has been put together and how
we trust this team in Brad Holmes and Dan Campbell.
The way they've been able to maneuver the cap situation, and say which one is about
the cap space being irrelevant or whatever, they've done a great job of having money to

(46:28):
spend.
Here's just the list of guys.
I think there's 33 different Lions who are going to be free agents this upcoming year.
These are just the really notable ones.
We have Derek Barnes, Marcus Davenport, John Kaminski, Carlton Davis, Ify, Emmanuel Mosley,
Levi Unzawerke, Craig Reynolds, Dan Skipper, Tim Patrick, Kyle Peckow, Kevin Zitler, and

(46:52):
you know what, that's probably 12 or so, so about 15 others who probably fall into that
next tier of notoriety.
A decent amount of guys that, I'm looking at that number, that list, a few guys that
I definitely want to maintain.
If you were to pick like three of these guys or so, who would you pick the guys that you
need to get this done and keep them around for next year?
I think the biggest name for me out of those guys that you mentioned is Carlton Davis.

(47:16):
He was really, really exceptional at cornerback this year.
Really played as our best corner.
I think at least through 12 weeks of the season, he was playing as one of the PFF highest
graded corners.
I would love to see him back.
I know his deal's up, of course, all these guys are.
We'd love to see him back.

(47:38):
Couple guys that I don't know.
I think Derek Barnes is a big question mark for me.
Emmanuel Mosley, I would say, is a no.
The dude just hasn't really played since being here.
Of course, it was two different injuries, so I'm not holding anything against him there,
but I feel like that's a no.
Zitler, he had a season, we talked a lot about his backup, the rookie Christian Mahogany,

(48:03):
playing really well when Zitler was injured.
Zitler's getting up there in age, so that's a big question mark for me as well.
Yeah, it's tough.
Loved what I saw from Tim Patrick.
I think that if you can get him on a team-friendly deal, definitely bring him back.
He's just a really, really solid wide receiver three.
But for me, yeah, it's got to be Carlton Davis.

(48:24):
I agree wholeheartedly.
Carlton Davis is the only name I hear that I'm like, you need him to stick around.
He was playing so well.
He's not coming off of an injury where it's an ACL tear and he's going to have to rehab
it and you don't know what he's going to come back with, energy and ability-wise.
He's a broken jaw.
He's going to come back fine in a matter of a few weeks, honestly.
So I'm 100%.
You've got to bring Carlton Davis back.

(48:46):
I like Derek Barnes, like I said, a little bit of a question mark there.
I'd like to see a little bit more from him.
Dan Skipper, I think it's a great reserve.
If you have some extra money to hand out, like I said, Zitler, we do have Christian
Mahogany who is in waiting.
I think we mentioned Graham Glasgow to start the show with one of the worst PFF ratings
from the loss against the commanders.

(49:08):
I think Graham Glasgow has to go.
And I think you maybe can make a move where you can plug in Christian Mahogany and you
can shift over Kevin Zitler, make a little bit, mix and match a little bit, keep him
around.
If nothing else, I know he's getting up there in age, but he's still in a great locker
room, veteran leadership for that offensive line, especially if we're going to be losing
Hank Fraley, maybe try and keep it as similar as possible so it's not too much change.

(49:32):
So I agree.
We'll go into it.
Like I said, we'll break down a lot more of these.
Who we think we'll give it, like if we had to have a top five, who we're going to have,
we'll break it down in a full episode in a few weeks.
But I agree completely.
It's got to be Carlton Davis, maybe Derek Barnes, Zitler, like Tim Patrick, like you
said.
Levi owns the work, I think, especially because we're not going to have Aleem McNeil to start

(49:54):
next season.
I think Levi is going to be important to start the year until we get a full, healthy Aleem
McNeil back.
So that is it for the lion section of the show.
Let's take a look elsewhere around Detroit.
As far as the Tigers go, still no Alex Bregman.
We got the news that Alex Santana signed with the Toronto Blue Jays.

(50:15):
So another potential Detroit Tigers free agent target off the board.
You had a Rokey, the pitcher coming from Japan, signing with the Dodgers.
Surprise there.
But still no Alex Bregman for Detroit.
There are reports coming out today that it's a little bit of a standstill.
The Tigers don't want to be the first one into the Bregman arena.

(50:38):
They have said they want to throw their hat in once it gets going, but they just don't
want to be the first one.
And I'm just going to continue to say it.
Chris Illich, I will not have a Little Caesars pizza until you sign Alex Bregman.
And I will stand by that.
And that means a lot, Chris, because this man is obsessed with the pretzel crust pizza
from Little Caesars.
I don't know for you, but I don't even know if that's a thing anymore.
But Chris Illich, just do the right thing, man, because this guy, he wants his pizza.

(51:02):
I want my pizza and I want my Bregman.
And it's that simple.
Go out and spend the money as these guys are taking it.
You know what?
I'll even go one further.
I want Jack Flaherty.
Let's get Jack Flaherty, a little reunion in Detroit.
I'm going to get obviously a smart deal, Jack Flaherty coming off a little bit of an injury.
Let's get Jack Flaherty back in Detroit on a team friendly deal and Alex Bregman.
Just give him what he wants and I'll be happy.
I'll go out and as soon as the news comes through, I'll go out and buy a pizza.

(51:25):
So no real news to report outside the Tigers there.
But the Pistons, we started the show joking around a little bit, but it actually is pretty
serious.
The Pistons are back over 500 and I was sitting at 22 and 21 after a big win over the Rockets.
That is right.
The Pistons are back over 500 and Cade Cunningham is the freaking truth, man.

(51:46):
I was pretty lucky that they were playing in Houston on Monday, MLK day, 1 p.m. tip
off.
I didn't know.
So I was able to go to the game with a buddy of mine and it was just awesome to see.
Just the Cade rivalry with Jalen Green, which is, I knew that the beef went back.
I didn't realize that it went back all the way to, you know, when both of them were

(52:07):
in eighth grade and, you know, competing against each other on AAU teams, competing
AAU teams.
But yeah, it was just really awesome to see Cade.
I mean, I can't even tell you the amount of times that my jaw was on the floor just seeing
what he could do, just getting to the rim, getting to certain spots on pretty much any
spot on the court that he wants, he can get to and he can create separation for, you know,

(52:31):
an easy jumper.
And then, yeah, his three-pooting, which is, I think it's really improved.
One of the numbers in front of me, so I would love to be proved wrong there.
Maybe he's not shooting as well.
But I think that he's really improved from three.
He hit back to back threes in the second half.
I think that third quarter when he just popped off for 19 and it was just really, really
awesome to see.
And more importantly, it was a great team win.

(52:52):
Playing one of the best teams in the Western Conference and you kicked their ass.
Yeah.
No, you're absolutely right.
The Jalen Green stuff is so funny because it started Jalen Green versus Cade or it started
at least in Detroit because Jalen Green thought he should go number one overall.
And I mean, there was an actual discussion about that for quite some time.

(53:12):
And Jalen Green is fine.
He's an offensive weapon.
He finished with 19 points against the Pistons.
But his shooting was so, it's just so inefficient.
He's always been like that.
He shot just 38% from the field against Detroit as opposed to Cade, who finished with 32 points,
shooting exactly 54% from the field.
So like, the discussion's over.
Cade clears, Jalen Green.

(53:33):
I don't really want to hear about it anymore.
And Jalen, you know, get out of Detroit's mentions.
But you're right, Cal.
Cade Cunningham, what's impressed me so much this season is his ability to slow the game
down.
We talked a few weeks ago about it that these guys, these all sorts that are playing against
him, they're all saying the same thing after playing against him and that he's like, you're

(53:54):
not able to speed him up.
He's playing his game.
He's so even keeled.
He's slowing it down.
He is still struggling with some turnover issues, but the game is slowing down for him.
And you're completely right about his 3-point percentage.
So his career-wise, 3-point shooting, he's shooting 34%.
Last year he shot 35%.

(54:15):
So last year he had a better year compared to his career.
This year so far he's shooting 37%.
And it's not only just 3-point shooting in general, it's his spot up 3-point shooting.
He's just stepping into 3s and coming up the court and transition, pulling up and taking
3s and hitting him at a really impressive clip.
So Kate is absolutely playing fantastic.
And a little bit of that should go towards, the pressure go towards the spacing that's

(54:39):
there, having Malik Beasley play so well.
And Tim Hardaway playing out of his mind since Jay and I have you went down with his fibula
injury.
And that obviously helps Kate a lot.
But it is so important.
He obviously worked out against the Rockets the other day, but we definitely need a secondary
score.
We saw the game before the Rockets that Kate is suddenly, people are realizing how good

(55:03):
of a player he is.
I mean, we talked about it last week that not only is he an all-star, you know, for
all-star contention, he's for like all-star starting contention.
And he's working his way in towards the MVP and the all-NBA team level.
And teams are taking note of that.
So as the game is coming down to the wire, teams are basically zeroing in on him.

(55:24):
And every few games you can see it's really wearing him down.
And he's not able to perform towards the end of the game as we need him to and ain't
no pullout to win.
So it really just speaks that we need another secondary score to replace the production
that Jayden Ivy has given him, or was giving him before his injury.
I mean, Kate Cunningham, his usage rate, meaning the points, assists, everything that's going

(55:46):
through him is at 32.1% of production, which is eighth most in the NBA.
It's behind guys like Shy Gilders, Alexander, Yana Sante DeCumbau, Joel Mb.
I mean, these are guys that are all NBA level.
And Kate is right there at eighth with 32%.
So I mean, the guy is super, he's a superman, he's a superhero, but you got to get him some

(56:09):
help.
You got to get him, you know, a secondary score.
You know, you can't just wait until Jayden Ivy comes back.
So we'll get into who we can go out and target and who might plug in well with this team
as we get into the trade deadline, which is the first week of February.
So in the next week or two, we'll definitely break that down even more.

(56:29):
Yeah, 100%.
He does need help.
And I definitely noticed that on Monday as well, just watching the game.
Of course, he popped off in the third quarter, played, I think, at least 10 minutes in the
third.
And then, you know, the fourth quarter, granted, this might have been a little bit game scripted
because the Pistons were up, but they weren't up by that much.
And I think he sat out the first, you know, seven minutes of the fourth quarter.

(56:52):
And that's really just because, you know, like you said, his usage is so high, he's
playing so many minutes that he just needed that rest for that last final push of the
game.
Luckily, on Monday, the Pistons' role players actually played really well in the beginning
half of that fourth quarter.
And not only kept the lead, but actually grew the lead a little bit.
Cade came in, he closed it down.
And at that point, the lead was too big.

(57:13):
But I completely agree, you got to get someone else in there to help him.
You can't just wait for J.I. to get back because that might not be the season, right?
It could be, but that's still to be determined.
So, yeah, we can break that down in future episodes.
Yeah.
And shout out to, you know, Trajan Langdon and JB Bigger staff.
I think you're spot on with the role players are playing phenomenal.

(57:34):
Like I said, you got Malik Beasley, who is truly, he is the best three-point shooter
in the league this season.
He's a true candidate for six men of the year.
Like I said, Tim Hardaway Jr. is stepping up tremendously with J.I.
being down.
Even Marcus Sasser is coming in and adding an offensive punch, you know, with that second
and honestly a little bit of third unit.
He was great against the Rockets.

(57:54):
So, you know, even Jaylen Durin is starting to play better on the defensive and he's starting
to have a little bit more energy.
And it makes sense.
JB Bigger staff is a defensive minded head coach.
You brought in this all season Vitaly Podepenko as an assistant coach who is like a defensive
minded big man assistant coach to help Jaylen Durin.

(58:15):
And then you have Isaiah Stewart who is one of the best, if not the best rim protector
in the NBA, even as an undersized five.
So, so much to talk about with that team.
Finally, we're back over 521.
It's going to get more difficult down the stretch here.
Like you said, we did just take it to one of the best teams in the Western Conference.
So you know, we'll hope that they can keep it up.
We hope that Cade can keep it up.
Like you said, this man is giving it his all and he does look tired some nights.

(58:39):
So we'll hope he can keep it up.
But yeah, so Pistons over 500 once again, Red Wings, they end up losing.
If you recall from last week's episode, I was, we had to wrap up the episode.
I went to the game.
We end up losing that game.
I want to apologize to the Red Wings team, the Red Wings fans, the organization for possibly
creating that bad luck and having us lose.

(58:59):
But shout out to the 80 year old woman who was next to me and knew more about hockey and
the Red Wings and all the players than I could ever know.
So shout out to her.
Yeah, I think, yeah, I don't know if we got to ban you from Red Wings games for like maybe
at least the next week or two.
Just so you've learned your lesson.
But yeah, the wings are on a little bit of a skid right now.

(59:21):
They've lost three out of four after, you know, being red hot after the top McLean hiring.
Pretty big game on actually right now as we speak, it's in the first period.
They're playing the Flyers.
And yeah, they really need a win.
Like I said, yeah, they're on a bit of a skid right now.
So yeah, let's see if they could write it.
Yeah.
I will gladly take my punishment rightfully so.

(59:42):
That's on me against, you know, one of the worst teams in the NHL and the San Jose Sharks
getting actually pantsed.
So I will take that.
But all right, that's it for our show.
Thank you guys for tuning into this week's episode.
You can find us on Twitter at Dutton underscore Tyler and Kyle underscore Marino.
Join the conversation next week by calling into the grit iron report voicemail as we

(01:00:03):
did today for us to play and discuss on the pod.
That phone number is 313-306-7939.
And if you liked this episode, please take a moment to rate it five stars and leave a
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